Thank you for the concise review. I'll pay extra for the electric outboard. The lack of noise is a selling point for me as my 15 foot inflatable is primarily a hunting boat (deer, ducks, squirrel, bear, etc...). It's nice to not worry about spark plugs, filters, sourcing ethanol free gasoline, and the constant game of "will it start this time."
Note that gasoline engines are rated for output power. The electric ones are rated for power consumption. That means that the actual output power of the electric ones are more like 1.1 or 1.2 HP.
Considering an electric motor for a restored Mirror Dinghy. Is there much vibration on the transom. There is a recommendation that the Transom in the mirror has a board to strengthen it. If someone to let me know about the factor of vibration. Thank you
Amazing video comparison, great work! My thoughts on the electric outboards is that they should reach the same speed as the gas powered one.But because of propeller pitch or design flaw or because rpm is too low they don't. A 2200w AC electric motor should have the same power as a 6.5Hp gasoline engine.
@@dimitristripakis7364 Most internal combustion engines are incredibly inefficient at turning fuel burned into usable energy. The efficiency by which they do so is measured in terms of "thermal efficiency", and most gasoline combustion engines average around 40 percent thermal efficiency compared to Electric motors that are typically 85% to 95% efficient.
Therefore you could convert horsepower to watts. 1HP = 0.75kW (approx). So 3HP *0.75 = 2.25 kW, then adjust for efficiency, 2.25 kW * 0.4 = 0.9 kW. Therefore if 1kW motor is 90% efficient it would be equivalent to a 3HP petrol motor. Now if efficiency is 85%, 0.9/0.85 = 1.05kW, and then perhaps the petrol motor is over spec, efficiency is underestimated, and perhaps the electric motors are geared for larger loads. The petrol motors capability might be higher - the petrol motors greatest inefficiency might be fuel energy conversion. I thought that the 40% claim was referring to fuel efficiency and not power output to thrust - which may in fact be the same
@@Dave78214 Internal combustion engines are almost always rated at the output shaft, so if you buy a 3HP petrol motor it will deliver 3HP mechanical power at the crankshaft. However, due to the dismal efficiency of a small ICE, the input fuel energy is much higher, probably about 15 HP's worth (yes that's an efficiency of only about 20%). The gearbox absorbs 5-10% of the engine's rated output due to friction, so the power at the propeller is slightly lower than the rated power of the engine. A typical marine propeller is usually only 50-60% efficient at turning mechanical power into thrust. Larger, slower turning propellers (as are fitted to the electric outboards) are more efficient in terms of thrust per unit of power, but have lower top speeds. This is an unavoidable tradeoff, to gain top end speed you have to sacrifice maximum thrust by using a propeller with more pitch and (assuming your engine power is the same) a smaller diameter or less blade area.
My local dealer is recommending the Short Shaft instead of Extra Short Shaft for my 15.5 inch transom height. They mentioned the additional length would be helpful in choppy water conditions there would be more chance of the prop coming further out of the water and then unit will begin to lose performance since one blade is no longer catching all of the water it needs to in order to move the boat forward --especially when encountering waves from other boats or wind blown chop. Did you have this experience with Extra Short Shaft unit?
I was deciding between short and extra short and I went with the extra short and happy I did. I have a 2.3 meter Zodiac which is about the smallest boat possible and it does not plane with the Sprit 1.0 plus so the prop stays submerged even when at full speed. I have driven it in fairly rough waters (18" waves) without issue. The only time it has cavitated is when you turn the tiller almost perpendicular to the transom and apply full throttle but under normal conditions there is no cavitation. When you put the motor up the very bottom is still a bit lower than the keel of the boat so if you pull the boat up on shore the bottom just barely scrapes on the sand. If you had a longer shaft (ie. short shaft instead of extra short) the bottom of the motor would be further down and would be digging into the sand.
@@birdzy The included battery of the ePropulsion motor will go for 1 hour at full throttle, 4 hours at lower speed (they don't say what speed, but as they said the digital display will calculate run time at current throttle) the Torqeedo will run for half an hour at full speed on the included battery, but they do have a larger battery available that will go for a full hour at full speed as well.
Range depends entirely on speed. And your also affected by currents or wind as you'll have to run faster to go against it. I have the stronger Torqeedo battery, and often go about 10 miles round trip fairly often. I could go real slow and further. And the battery is not dead when I return as it's not a good idea to let lithium batteries run down to nothing, so try to make sure you have a little left. 10 miles is a good figure, but that's just a rough idea with average conditions of some wind, some current but nothing out of the ordinary. You can also buy additional batteries of course, but they are pricey. Keep this in mind. For each speed you go faster than the previous, it uses 8 times as much juice. Going at the slowest speeds of the stronger battery (trolling speeds), you could probably run it just about all day. But your not gonna move too fast at that rate.
I'm curious. You say in the clip that the Torqeedo is over $4000. But in the graphic display it says $3590. Why the difference in price? Are there accessories you can add?
My problem with the electrics is that the specs outward lie about the performance. For example the Spirit 1.0 is marketed as a 3 HP equivalent, where you can clearly see in the video that this is not the case and also, the Spirit 1.0 is 1kW battery power, 500W motor power (50% efficiency). How can a 500 Watts engine be marketed as a 3HP equivalent, is beyond my reason...
It's nominal wattage vs peak wattage. it probably peaks at 1000w then. and in the video the mercury did have at least 0.5 more hp. and it's also a matter of at what rpm the motor is the strongest.
Hopefully two years on you will have understood where you went wrong. It’s not about the power of the motor it’s about the thrust at the prop. The more efficient electric motors generate thrust that is equivalent to a 3HP ICE motor. It’s not a lie, it is a way to illustrate suitability.
@@davidmatthews3093 Thrust is not the same as power. Example = car in 1st gear has more thrust than 5th gear, but same power. Thrust is 100% depended on gearbox and totally irrelevant with power. With enough gear ratio, a toddler can pull a train, it does not mean anything.
I've tested this 3 times myself. Full throttle not backing off at all you'll get 1hr 15minutes. Thats a hard test to do holding a throttle full speed for that long
After doing some calculations on a perfect non windy day in calm water you will get about 6 miles out of the electric motors. Can not go very far with it. If it is a bit choppy & going into a wind cut that in half.
@@BBBYpsi I went for a run on the weekend with the spirit 1 remote and took a spare battery. I was able to get 26km / 16miles out of the battery before it shut down. This was into wind on the way back and tide. Also i was varying the Watts. Speed over 750 wats didnt make a difference his was due to the boat hull shape. Althought into the wind the 1000 watts did keep the speed up. I hope this give some useful information.
@@islandmarine4788 No way I believe 16 miles. One person said 1 hr 15 minutes of time. That equates to 6 miles. 16 miles you would have over 3 hours of run time.
New Zealand Dealer website: www.beaconmarine.nz/ They're based in Auckland. There's going to be an ePropulsion Demo day on June 8th. Be quick to contact them :) FYI, Spirit 1.0 webpage: www.epropulsion.com/spirit-1
It is pronounced E Propulsion, not E Pro Propulsion. The early Torqueedo makes a hell of a whine in use, due to the gearbox design. The Epropulsion is silent in comparison. That counts for a lot when I'm fishing. It goes without saying that electric is far safer than gas and probably more convenient.
The noise was only on the original model Torqeedo which had been around a decade. To keep up with the "knock off" product you mention, the newer model of the 1003 motor which is basically the same motor now called the 1103, it is also totally silent, offers 10% more speed and I forget what else. I've had a 1003 since 2013 and the noise is "minimal" and doesn't bother me in the least. Nothing like the noise or smell of a gasoline motor, yet real power. I had a trolling motor previously, what a huge difference. The 1103 is still very quiet, and the loudest noise it makes is only when going at higher speeds, and is still bare minimal next to a gas motor. But it's a non-issue if your buying a new one, as Torqeedo only sells the quiet ones now. The 1103 has the same case, looks exactly the same with a couple minor improvements such as, perfectly silent. I have no interest in replacing my "quiet enough" 1003 with one that is silent. I can buy batteries locally, and there is a factory service center about an hour away as Torqeedo has sold many thousands of these motors and offers service and parts all over the USA. Can you do that with the competitor? Doesn't seem like it, unless your one of the few that live close enough to the right places. Owning a motor is also a matter of being able to buy parts, batteries and getting it serviced.
It’s interesting reading reviews on these engines and to be honest I think asking someone’s opinion who already owns one is not the going give you a truly unbiased report. Firstly, if you’ve already bought one it’s unlikely you’re going to admit you made the wrong decision and will look for all (or any) good points to justify your purchase. I purchased a Torqueedo 1103 8 weeks ago and it packed up after only 8 weeks of use. Yes, they are quiet and you don’t have to worry about carrying petrol but they are completely underpowered and has anyone, like me, experienced a total failure of the battery and found it impossible to get it resolved? I truly wish we had never bought an electric motor and I wish we’d bought a reliable and easy to get fixed Honda 6HP unit or similar instead which you can get fixed anywhere in the world. At the moment I have a useless Torqueedo 1103 which is 8 weeks old, cost me double what a similar petrol motor would have and the after sales service is non existent.
i has a Spirit 1.0 purchased in 2018 and its battery failed after less than 10 charges. i contacted their dealer in hk and was told the model has been discontinued. they told me the replacement battery will work only if the old engine gets a software upgrade. total repair cost and battery is hkd 10500, that is usd 1350. i will not recommend their product..
The so-called 3HP electric motors are actually 1.3 HP. The equivalent HP is false advertising. Their range is limited. Electric motors are all good in other aspects.
I suspect that their '3hp equivalent' is static thrust, aka bollard pull. This is of course highly dependent on the propeller, presumably the electrics are using a larger, finer pitched prop leading to good static thrust at the expense of top speed.
Why are you testing electric versus the dinosaur 2 stroke only? Where is the equivalent 4 stroke small motor which everyone makes nowadays. Waste of a review 👎
@@thierrycalandre2493 A suzuki 2.5 hp 4 stroke weighs more or less the same as the Mercury 3.3 hp 2 stroke. Or you could have a Mercury 3.5 4 stroke, which weighs 18 kg or so.
![ตีสิบเดย์ [FULL] | ครอบครัวสะท้านทุ่ง "นางบี & อ้ายสติ๊ก"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A1rhYcxxNtA/mqdefault.jpg)
most excellent review from down under.
All the Very Best!
jim
Thank you for the concise review. I'll pay extra for the electric outboard. The lack of noise is a selling point for me as my 15 foot inflatable is primarily a hunting boat (deer, ducks, squirrel, bear, etc...). It's nice to not worry about spark plugs, filters, sourcing ethanol free gasoline, and the constant game of "will it start this time."
ahahaha are you sure you are going to even move especially with animals like deers in there
Note that gasoline engines are rated for output power. The electric ones are rated for power consumption. That means that the actual output power of the electric ones are more like
1.1 or 1.2 HP.
It’s to do with comparative thrust not power. These small outboards ar3 the equivalent of a 3HP ICE.
VERY VERY GOOD video
Merci
Considering an electric motor for a restored Mirror Dinghy. Is there much vibration on the transom. There is a recommendation that the Transom in the mirror has a board to strengthen it. If someone to let me know about the factor of vibration. Thank you
Wow....awsome bro....
Thanks 🤗
what boat is that?
Amazing video comparison, great work!
My thoughts on the electric outboards is that they should reach the same speed as the gas powered one.But because of propeller pitch or design flaw or because rpm is too low they don't.
A 2200w AC electric motor should have the same power as a 6.5Hp gasoline engine.
How do you come up with such a number ? 6.5 HP is 4500+ Watts. What "formula" do you use ?
@@dimitristripakis7364 Most internal combustion engines are incredibly inefficient at turning fuel burned into usable energy. The efficiency by which they do so is measured in terms of "thermal efficiency", and most gasoline combustion engines average around 40 percent thermal efficiency compared to Electric motors that are typically 85% to 95% efficient.
Therefore you could convert horsepower to watts. 1HP = 0.75kW (approx). So 3HP *0.75 = 2.25 kW, then adjust for efficiency, 2.25 kW * 0.4 = 0.9 kW. Therefore if 1kW motor is 90% efficient it would be equivalent to a 3HP petrol motor. Now if efficiency is 85%, 0.9/0.85 = 1.05kW, and then perhaps the petrol motor is over spec, efficiency is underestimated, and perhaps the electric motors are geared for larger loads. The petrol motors capability might be higher - the petrol motors greatest inefficiency might be fuel energy conversion. I thought that the 40% claim was referring to fuel efficiency and not power output to thrust - which may in fact be the same
@@Dave78214 Internal combustion engines are almost always rated at the output shaft, so if you buy a 3HP petrol motor it will deliver 3HP mechanical power at the crankshaft. However, due to the dismal efficiency of a small ICE, the input fuel energy is much higher, probably about 15 HP's worth (yes that's an efficiency of only about 20%). The gearbox absorbs 5-10% of the engine's rated output due to friction, so the power at the propeller is slightly lower than the rated power of the engine.
A typical marine propeller is usually only 50-60% efficient at turning mechanical power into thrust. Larger, slower turning propellers (as are fitted to the electric outboards) are more efficient in terms of thrust per unit of power, but have lower top speeds. This is an unavoidable tradeoff, to gain top end speed you have to sacrifice maximum thrust by using a propeller with more pitch and (assuming your engine power is the same) a smaller diameter or less blade area.
My local dealer is recommending the Short Shaft instead of Extra Short Shaft for my 15.5 inch transom height. They mentioned the additional length would be helpful in choppy water conditions there would be more chance of the prop coming further out of the water and then unit will begin to lose performance since one blade is no longer catching all of the water it needs to in order to move the boat forward --especially when encountering waves from other boats or wind blown chop. Did you have this experience with Extra Short Shaft unit?
I was deciding between short and extra short and I went with the extra short and happy I did. I have a 2.3 meter Zodiac which is about the smallest boat possible and it does not plane with the Sprit 1.0 plus so the prop stays submerged even when at full speed. I have driven it in fairly rough waters (18" waves) without issue. The only time it has cavitated is when you turn the tiller almost perpendicular to the transom and apply full throttle but under normal conditions there is no cavitation. When you put the motor up the very bottom is still a bit lower than the keel of the boat so if you pull the boat up on shore the bottom just barely scrapes on the sand. If you had a longer shaft (ie. short shaft instead of extra short) the bottom of the motor would be further down and would be digging into the sand.
No mention of what kind of range you get with those two electric motors or how long it they will run.
Yep. I got excited for this video until I realized how limited the information was.
@@birdzy The included battery of the ePropulsion motor will go for 1 hour at full throttle, 4 hours at lower speed (they don't say what speed, but as they said the digital display will calculate run time at current throttle) the Torqeedo will run for half an hour at full speed on the included battery, but they do have a larger battery available that will go for a full hour at full speed as well.
Range depends entirely on speed. And your also affected by currents or wind as you'll have to run faster to go against it.
I have the stronger Torqeedo battery, and often go about 10 miles round trip fairly often. I could go real slow and further. And the battery is not dead when I return as it's not a good idea to let lithium batteries run down to nothing, so try to make sure you have a little left. 10 miles is a good figure, but that's just a rough idea with average conditions of some wind, some current but nothing out of the ordinary. You can also buy additional batteries of course, but they are pricey.
Keep this in mind. For each speed you go faster than the previous, it uses 8 times as much juice. Going at the slowest speeds of the stronger battery (trolling speeds), you could probably run it just about all day. But your not gonna move too fast at that rate.
I'm curious. You say in the clip that the Torqeedo is over $4000. But in the graphic display it says $3590. Why the difference in price? Are there accessories you can add?
That's not in USA money. It's less here by about $1000 or so.
I didn't even know electric ones even existed. The gas ones can't die out soon enough.
But as the gas outboard is cheaper it is an easy choice (but only on short notice). Choices are often money driven.
My problem with the electrics is that the specs outward lie about the performance.
For example the Spirit 1.0 is marketed as a 3 HP equivalent, where you can clearly see in the video that this is not the case and also, the Spirit 1.0 is 1kW battery power, 500W motor power (50% efficiency). How can a 500 Watts engine be marketed as a 3HP equivalent, is beyond my reason...
It's nominal wattage vs peak wattage. it probably peaks at 1000w then. and in the video the mercury did have at least 0.5 more hp. and it's also a matter of at what rpm the motor is the strongest.
Hopefully two years on you will have understood where you went wrong. It’s not about the power of the motor it’s about the thrust at the prop. The more efficient electric motors generate thrust that is equivalent to a 3HP ICE motor. It’s not a lie, it is a way to illustrate suitability.
@@davidmatthews3093 Thrust is not the same as power. Example = car in 1st gear has more thrust than 5th gear, but same power. Thrust is 100% depended on gearbox and totally irrelevant with power. With enough gear ratio, a toddler can pull a train, it does not mean anything.
What is the size of your inflatable? Thanks!
Most likely 2.9
I would like to know how long the battery charge lasts, how long can you surf on average with Epropulsion Spirit 1.0 ?
There is some test: th-cam.com/video/99LCJN3yOsw/w-d-xo.html
I've tested this 3 times myself. Full throttle not backing off at all you'll get 1hr 15minutes. Thats a hard test to do holding a throttle full speed for that long
After doing some calculations on a perfect non windy day in calm water you will get about 6 miles out of the electric motors. Can not go very far with it. If it is a bit choppy & going into a wind cut that in half.
@@BBBYpsi I went for a run on the weekend with the spirit 1 remote and took a spare battery. I was able to get 26km / 16miles out of the battery before it shut down. This was into wind on the way back and tide. Also i was varying the Watts. Speed over 750 wats didnt make a difference his was due to the boat hull shape. Althought into the wind the 1000 watts did keep the speed up. I hope this give some useful information.
@@islandmarine4788 No way I believe 16 miles. One person said 1 hr 15 minutes of time. That equates to 6 miles. 16 miles you would have over 3 hours of run time.
So how can I buy one? Where? Do they have a website? Thanks
New Zealand Dealer website: www.beaconmarine.nz/
They're based in Auckland. There's going to be an ePropulsion Demo day on June 8th. Be quick to contact them :)
FYI, Spirit 1.0 webpage: www.epropulsion.com/spirit-1
@@chandlerxu9107 The spirit web site will not fully load up.
forget it ! I have Two Torqueedos Booth gave me only Problems,in 15 years I spend around $ 15000 and I have now Two Motors
with WATER in them
It is pronounced E Propulsion, not E Pro Propulsion.
The early Torqueedo makes a hell of a whine in use, due to the gearbox design. The Epropulsion is silent in comparison. That counts for a lot when I'm fishing.
It goes without saying that electric is far safer than gas and probably more convenient.
The noise was only on the original model Torqeedo which had been around a decade. To keep up with the "knock off" product you mention, the newer model of the 1003 motor which is basically the same motor now called the 1103, it is also totally silent, offers 10% more speed and I forget what else.
I've had a 1003 since 2013 and the noise is "minimal" and doesn't bother me in the least. Nothing like the noise or smell of a gasoline motor, yet real power. I had a trolling motor previously, what a huge difference. The 1103 is still very quiet, and the loudest noise it makes is only when going at higher speeds, and is still bare minimal next to a gas motor. But it's a non-issue if your buying a new one, as Torqeedo only sells the quiet ones now. The 1103 has the same case, looks exactly the same with a couple minor improvements such as, perfectly silent. I have no interest in replacing my "quiet enough" 1003 with one that is silent. I can buy batteries locally, and there is a factory service center about an hour away as Torqeedo has sold many thousands of these motors and offers service and parts all over the USA. Can you do that with the competitor? Doesn't seem like it, unless your one of the few that live close enough to the right places. Owning a motor is also a matter of being able to buy parts, batteries and getting it serviced.
It’s interesting reading reviews on these engines and to be honest I think asking someone’s opinion who already owns one is not the going give you a truly unbiased report. Firstly, if you’ve already bought one it’s unlikely you’re going to admit you made the wrong decision and will look for all (or any) good points to justify your purchase.
I purchased a Torqueedo 1103 8 weeks ago and it packed up after only 8 weeks of use. Yes, they are quiet and you don’t have to worry about carrying petrol but they are completely underpowered and has anyone, like me, experienced a total failure of the battery and found it impossible to get it resolved?
I truly wish we had never bought an electric motor and I wish we’d bought a reliable and easy to get fixed Honda 6HP unit or similar instead which you can get fixed anywhere in the world.
At the moment I have a useless Torqueedo 1103 which is 8 weeks old, cost me double what a similar petrol motor would have and the after sales service is non existent.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
It sounds as though you didn’t do your homework.
i has a Spirit 1.0 purchased in 2018 and its battery failed after less than 10 charges. i contacted their dealer in hk and was told the model has been discontinued. they told me the replacement battery will work only if the old engine gets a software upgrade. total repair cost and battery is hkd 10500, that is usd 1350. i will not recommend their product..
aaaagrr the price :o(
The so-called 3HP electric motors are actually 1.3 HP. The equivalent HP is false advertising. Their range is limited. Electric motors are all good in other aspects.
I suspect that their '3hp equivalent' is static thrust, aka bollard pull. This is of course highly dependent on the propeller, presumably the electrics are using a larger, finer pitched prop leading to good static thrust at the expense of top speed.
Two years later do you understand where your logic went wrong?
@@davidmatthews3093 I use a Torqeedo Travel 1003 and a Suzuki DF6. I have not found my logic wrong so far. Please advise. Thanks!
Lithium batteries are not eco friendly. Thank you and have a nice day.
Errr, and single-use carbon emitting fossil fuels are?
My ePropulsion has let me down after only 6 months and 2 outings. Overpriced and overrated.
I don’t believe you. If you were genuine you would say after six months or on its second outing. Perhaps you forgot to charge the battery.
Why are you testing electric versus the dinosaur 2 stroke only? Where is the equivalent 4 stroke small motor which everyone makes nowadays. Waste of a review 👎
my 4Hp 4stroke Yam is 28kg > 62lbs ! not the same weight !
@@thierrycalandre2493 A suzuki 2.5 hp 4 stroke weighs more or less the same as the Mercury 3.3 hp 2 stroke. Or you could have a Mercury 3.5 4 stroke, which weighs 18 kg or so.
There is NO way an electric motor leaves a smaller eco footprint. You have to burn a lot of coal to charge that battery.
But if you charge it with wind or solar power?
Wind itself is as bad as coal. But solar is tops.
@@zvonkozunic Okay, but I hope wind will be better for the environment
Niels Thomassen by the time they. build those wind fans they've already lost the argument. & they are SO inneficient .
You must live in a Republican state. In our state coal plants are being decommissioned.