SSJ Vegito >>>>>>>> Buuhan > Buutenks > Ultimate Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks > = Super Buu >>>>>>>> SSJ3 Goku > / = Kid Buu > Fat Buu Once upon of time this was the correct order ranging from Strongest to Weakest but I've noticed within the last few months people have been trying to rewrite the narrative with Kid Buu > all which go against everything said in the original Manga written by Toriyama. Even DBZ Kai (which was made to correct dub errors and be as close to the manga as possible) went by that chain. How did we get here? Idk but it's strange.
Toei scaling loves to make characters as strong as possible without caring for the source material they are adapting from. Lots of fans are like that too.
Kind of an old topic. 1. If you dont have time to read it, skip to point 3, and point 5, as these are most critical/ithink matter the most. 2. Kid Buu = Grand Kaio removed, and removed fusions. The only significant leftover is the SOuth Kaio, who we see as Kid buu becomes very buff. Super buu = Exact same parts as original fat buu, but he's been re-ordered. This is because the Grand Kaio was stated to have pacified Buu, transforming him int othe fat one we know. The only different in super buu from Fat BUu (Original) is that Fat buu has the Grand Kaio within surpressing him significantly in terms of output. When he becomes Super Buu, he gains more access to his power, as he's less Grand Kaio, more Original (Kid buu) When you remove the Grand Kaio and all other parts, you get Kid buu, the "Full power" Of Buu, as its not restrained anymore. And the GRand Kaio is fully within and seperated from Kid buu, placed into fat buu, As we see in Super. What the debate is, is the "Unsupressed Grand Kaio Kid Buu" Stronger, than a slightly surpressed Super Buu, with Gohan and Piccolo, and Goten and Trunks within him. 3. Koyama Statements: (as the screenwriter for the anime) "Buuhan is the strongest buu as he's a fusion. Fusion is ment to be the strongest. Child Buu may be the stronger unfused Buu. But Buuhan remains the strongest." Now keep in mind, Koyama was MEGA harassed for stating this, to the point that 4 days later, he randomly posted. "maybe theyre all the same. my apologies." this is after 4 days of Kid buu fan weirdos spam messaging him, commenting on every post, literally debate-hateing him for stating this about the anime. Absolute insane bullying. Clearly his first comment is true, and his 2nd one is just to stop being harassed. 4. You say "This is Akira Toriyama talking abotu Kid Buu being stronger." no, its not actually. Its actually him talking about the end-game villians tending to always be small. On the greater point, he's talking about when he made Vegeta and Frieza, this stops with cell and (Partially with buu) as Fat buu follows this ,as seemingly docile/innocent despite being evil/twisted. Kid buu is where it picks up again. But it isnt consistant. As with Cell, he got bigger. Frieza even got larger in his full power state, than his 3rd. As his 1st form is truely small. 2nd form is big. 3rd form is smaller, (Original base) but technically 4th form, is bigger than his first form, but smaller than 2nd and 3rd. Then his 100% form is bigger than his normal form, and 1st form, but not bigger than his 2nd. Likewise, Vegeta is "Small" but then grew...literally into an ape. And became giant, (lmfao) Clearly this isnt a consistant point he applied, but only to how they're viewed INTIALLY upon reading. 1. Vegeta smaller than nappa. (Yet becomes huge and stronger) 2. Frieza smaller than all the Ginyu force, but becomes huge, then medium, then small-medium, then medium again. 3. Cell (Cell is huge in first form), still huge in 2nd form, slightly leaner in 3rd form but still tall/larger than all characters. 4. Buu. Fat/Docile (Becomes larger, Becomes stronger and larger, then becomes smaller) All he's talking about is their base forms if you read the full super exciting guide, and how they're viewed at first. Being unothodox, as the small 1 to start, or innocent/docile characters compared to their henchment dont look like the actual main bad guy. Buu next to Dabura. Vegeta next to Nappa. Frieza next to Ginyu, or anyone else. Its super consistant in this statement i made. But not in how you've interpreted it. So if you want to take what he says literally, Frieza's 1st form should be his strongest, its the smallest. I could go on. 5. HUGE POINT HERE. -Toriyama for ALL his villans has written them as regressed upon thier final hour. Ill explain. -Vegeta small, becomes Great ape, is about to win, becomes small (reverts to base) weakened. -Frieza, small becomes big, then medium, then buffs up again, only to fail and run out of power because of it, dies because of this and reverts -Cell, becomes perfect, loses despite this, reverts to 2nd form, explodes and dies. -Buu Starts as small, becomes strongest form (Buuhan) then reverts, just like the other villians, losing power. And dies. ALL of them have been written to become self-sabotional reverting characters, who lose out from their cheating tactics, or evil ways, and revert form-before dying. Extremely consistant with his writing style for the main-big bads of the show. Im curious on your thoughts on these points. Especially #5, and #3, which are insanely concrete. 6. When the statement in-anime, is said that "Goku is the strongest." its referring/keep in mind that Gohan is dead during that time. And only shortly after ressurected. During this time, its literally said. "Buuhan and Gotenks would make quick work of Buu." as they're fighting.
@@Chris-xc1hm if he doesn't put enough information he's a casual who doesn't know what he is talking about but when he does put information showing he knows what he's talking about y'all can't read even a bit lmao
6:36 Toriyama did not state that Kid Buu is stronger than Buuhan. His quote does not specify any character. He was speaking in general about making small characters strong.
See that was always my perspective too. But then I just started looking from a different angle. In the manga, ultimate gohan prob is the strongest unfused character. In anime. He is on par with ss3 goku pre-potara. Watch this video until the end as I go into depth
How would his statement not apply to Buuhan and Kid Buu then? They are apart of his story and in his own words he was consciously trying to make an unconventional and contradictory story. Also Toriyama has NEVER ended an Arc’s final fight with his villains in their weakest forms. Great Ape Vegeta, Final Form Frieza, Super Perfect Cell, Kid Buu, etc. I think he fully intended for Kid Buu to be the strongest and it makes sense with his writing style
@@CYeoungGohan is easijy losing fohan had no nothing that he's dyronger than goku. Goku already beaten a copy version of goku in super buu body without ssj3 with ease its goku and it's not even close.
@@SonZackSSJ9kGoku already beaten a copy version of gohan that is as strong as ultimate gohan in super buu body without ssj3 with ease goku wins and its not even close
@@nevadalotto560U know that Buu body fight was filler right? In the manga they immediately get rid of everyone except fat buu and Goku shows fear at the fact of fighting super buu
I'm actually neutral and my favorite character is Piccolo, but when it comes to Goku and Gohan, maybe Gohan's ultimate is superior compared to SS3 Goku.😅
Gohan had showed nothing at all that he's on par with goku at all. Goku already beaten a copy version of gohan thats as strong as ultimate gohan without ssj3 with ease it's goku abd it's not even close
Is there anything that directly states that they got stronger after the fusion or is that head cannon? I don’t think it’s unreasonable, but without actual evidence in the show, seems like head cannon.
Its just headcannon/misinterpretation/interpreting it in a specific way to conclude later. Without those first analysies you can't consistantly make them stronger. Its essentially them saying "They're getting a zenkai" when infac,t at this time in Z's history, Akira Toriyama specifically said when questioned why Zenaki's arnt appearing anymore, that "As a Saiyan grows the Zenaki's they recieve become smaller and smaller until they stop" This was stated during the super exciting guide, specifically. IT was ret-conned later in Super. But for Z this is applicable.
@@TelariusIt’s really not giving that it’s the only explanation Goku has from being equal to Gohan to being able to beat him in Base. Yall also forget Toriyama Supervised the anime anyways.
@@SonZackSSJ9k It's actually the opposite, we're shown directly that Goku's base is weaker than Gohan's base, and Goku is amazed by it. This occours right before Gohan goes ultimate, this is super important. Because Goku briefly trains with Gohan. He REALLY struggles to use the Z-sword, which is just very heavy. He can barely swing it. Yet Gohan from his trianing, has honed his body to an extreme degree, making his base form VERY strong. Directly shown that its stronger than Gokus. Both pickup the same sword. Sword = very heavy. Gohan, pick it up like nothing in base. Goku: STruggles to swing it. Its as direct as it can be.
@@SonZackSSJ9k You dont understand what a gag moment is then. Just because its somewhat? Kinda? Funny, dosent mean its any less real. What a horrible way to view the discussion. At this point you're either an idiot. Or just arguing as a contrarian for the sake of it
I believe Gohan did surpass Goku some point in the ssj3 Goku but the mistake people make when discussing this is that they think Goku doesn’t get any stronger during the course of Buu arc.
The Buu saga takes place over the span on 2-3 days and Z didn’t have the absurd Super scaling where characters would just get stronger for no reason in the span of hours/days. The literal only instance where Goku could have gotten a substantial boost in power is if we assume that both he and Vegeta got stronger after the potara fusion ended. But since there is no concrete proof of this, it would just come down to headcanon.
I think it’s hard to determine a clear winner between ssj3 goku and mystic gohan. I will say that if u make them both even in power then goku wins because of his battle experience and fighting prowess
I recently rewatched the Buu Arc because of Daima, and I have to disagree with you here. Narratively it does not make sense that Kid Buu is the strongest. He is the most pure, but that doesn’t equate to his power. Especially after Super Buu absorbs Gohan. There’s just no way in justifying that Kid Buu was stronger than that.
But something about zenkais Daizenshuu states they are irrelevant after frieza And dbs manga makes it clear zenkais are irrelevant for example in goku black arc when vegeta got a senzu by trunks yet they said zenkais are too little as they have teached their limit and in the dbs mamga their strength in base at the time was near their strength in buu saga And when dende heals gohan buutenks states gohan has not got any stronger Saiyans get stronger in fights by transformations and anger and training which is also what the daizenshuu talks about and dbs and how saiyans got stronger in dbs
In Diama its stated goku is the strongest so goku most likely was the strongest in the buu arc because not much time past and akira in an interview said he doesnt know how else to make his main characters stronger.
Good theory.....I also believe goku and Vegeta got zenkaid against kid buu But we're still weaker than fusions and ultimate My biggest issue with this arc is one can tell that the end change from thr path initially planned ...to final fight having to include goku for series end
Even if we assume they're equal in power. SSJ3 is too limited if the battle go the distance. Also Kid Buu is not the strongest. He's the most terrifting/dangerous. It never stated that Kid Buu is the strongest. This is common knowledge amongst DBZ fans.
if we only work off statements throughout the story, it's possible to argue kid buu over super buu after shrinking from buff buu (an absorption) based on goku's statements after he's losing, then general portrayals across db media and... goku basically wins a short fight against gohan and are relative, with his techniques playing a huge part into him being superior to close/ widen the gap since they would be effective basically there's no point to bring gotenks or gohan to the kai world as gokku thinks if they can't combat kid buu, but kid buu's battle still is treated as if the universe is doomed if they fail implying that goku not being involved is game over somehow
You completely disregarded the in-verse evidence, like Goku being afraid of Super Buu. If he was stronger, why did he never try fighting him? And you cant just say Goku magically got stronger post fusion for no reason. Vegito didnt suffer any injuries, so why would Goku get a zenkai? The databooks should just be thrown out and disregarded if they contradict the original source material. Goku nor Kid Buu at ANY point where stronger than Buuhan/Super Buu/ Ultimate Gohan. This scale makes no sense in the slightest.
1:56 You have SSJ2 Gohan do you have this placed as pre-mystic form. But what you don’t realize is Gohan was never in a trance form state he was only in his base form. So that is also a lie, however you didn’t know you were lying but after you read this comment you will know that you are in the wrong. Because there is zero evidence to support your claim. So technically that should be called inner potential unlocked base form Gohan.
Kid buu is stronger than buuhan, it was stated in the dragon ball super manga (Moro arc) that kid buu got all of the god from fat buu once seperation due to absorbing the fat daikioshin (It was stated in the manga dont believe read the moro arc) and also in the fight against kid buu Goku stated that kid buu power was growing stronger as he fought, and yall should know that getting divine amplifies the users strength as they fight so yes kid buu is stronger than buuhan, I mean the evidence is there. I dont understand why people is denying that kid buu is stronger than buuhan EVEN THE TORIYAMA SAID SO.
Nah the manga has goku as the strongest too. Its not just the anime the anime just makes it more obvious. 1st we need to establish that super buus strength increase is never portrayed as a large increase. Super buu is portrayed as a rearrangement of the same components only changing who is in control. Super buu can just draw out that power more easily and has the desire to actually use it. Goku is stated to be above fat buu even in a suppressed ssj3 form and with the lack of any statements or feats to compare the 2 we cant say which is stronger for now. So at this point we have established both super buu and goku are over fat buu but havent established who is stronger between them. So now we move on to the inside buu statements. People talk enough about the cant go out like this statement but ignore the scene preceeding it where vegeta outright states that if they return buu to base form he should not be a problem and fusion should not be necessary. Its important to note goku disagrees with vegeta but not on the basis of their strength but because he is not certain they will even be able to rescue their kids. Remember this is uncharted territory and goku is taking a cautious approach while vegeta is confident in their current plan and strength. This leads into the next scene where they do succeed in removing the kids and are going to leave. Goku is portrayed as having a realization that at their current level they cant fight super buu. However only a page before we have goku and vegeta speaking confidently of fighting base super buu. This would appear to be a contradiction if you dont pay attention to the specific wording of "like this" referencing the fact they are smaller and confirmed narratively to be weaker in that state. Again, we, having read the manga, have hindsight to know things work out but goku or vegeta have no reason to believe they would return to normal at this point. We even see goku look surprised and celebrate everyone returning to normal confirming that was a concern of his before. Now we move on to removing fat buu. Initially they do that with the expectation that buu would get weaker but its explicitly stated in the manga that buus ki increases by goku and again confirmed by shin that the presence of the grand supreme kai inside buu weakened him. Despite being confirmed stronger goku and vegeta still remain confident they can defeat kid buu. Now obviously kid buu goes on to prove them wrong as we later find out kid buu is playing with them the entire time but it doesnt change that in that moment the increased level of strength they felt was still confortable enough for them to face. As you can see the most consistent portrayal of goku is that he is above super buu level. The anime guides and interviews firther clarify this as well.
0:39 “I know technically, the manga & the anime are different.” You are lying and I can prove it. The manga DBZ and the anime DBZ Kai is the same in the freezer arc, the cell arc, & The Buu Arc. I find your fans are very disingenuous when it comes to the third art because that’s the only time you guys will separate among us from the anime but I hypocrite because you keep the manga and anime the same when it comes to the previous two hours. The only point of contention you guys have it because you want to go hard to be stronger so you’re separating among in the anime when they are never actually separated.
Given that Ultimate form exceeds that of SSJ3 and the guides states that Ultimate Gohan being on par with SSJ3 Goku this makes me question whether or not SSJ3 is 4x SSJ2
This is not a debate... Goku literally stated that he would not be able to defeat super Buu even with Vegeta's help after they released Gohan and the others. Meanwhile Gohan destroyed super Buu. Debate close and Gohan is WAY WAY stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Goku SSJ3 >>> Gotenks SSJ3 = Super Buu < Gohan < Buutenks and so on. Super Buu is leagues above fat Buu and Goku is slightly superior to fat Buu.
hey before fusion he is slightly weaker then ultimate gohan but after fusion they defuse inside Buuhan and they get zenkai boost and goku fights with gohans copy and say he is strong as original ultimate gohan and defeat him that's why and yeah kid buu is stronger than Buuhan
@@SajdaArif-t1h there is a lot wrong with your comment. 1. Goku is not slightly weaker than Gohan. He is far weaker. Gohan destroyed super buu and Goku was scared to fight super buu without fusion. 2. At this point of the story zenkais are not as relevant as they once were. The boost arent nearly as massive as in frieza saga. 3. Makes 0 sense that the Gohan copy is as strong as Gohan. Gohan is about 1.5x stronger than super buu and Goku fought it in his base form just like Vegeta fought Gotenks and Vegeta is nowhere near Gotenks. Vegeta lost badly vs fat buu while Gotenks is even with super buu. that statement is irrelevant.
1:16 Goku & Vegeta are Astronomically Stronger than we thought in the beginning of The Buu Saga, in the middle & the end. This is absolutely false. And I’m not going to state Y until you come to the point in discussion that is most relevant. Which you will be getting to soon enough, I have patience.
No they’re a lot stronger actuators. Guides stating even base Vegito is stronger perhaps than a ss4, who is astronomically stronger than buu saga ss3 Goku. Daizenshu says that Vegito is strongest in known universe. For the original story obviously
Super Vegetto > Super Buu Gohan Base Vegetto = Super Buu Gohan (maybe) Super Buu Gohan > Super Buu Gotenks Super Buu Gotenks > Ultimate Gohan Ultimate Gohan > Super Buu Piccoro Super Buu Piccoro > Super Buu Super Buu = Gotenks SSJ3 aka Super Gotenks Gotenks post Time Chamber (base) > Evil Fat Buu Goku SSJ3 = Kid Buu Goku SSJ3 > Evil Fat Buu Evil fat Buu > Gotenks pre Time Chamber (base) Evil fat Buu > Evil Buu Evil Buu > Fat Buu Kid Buu > Fat Buu Super Buu is 200 times stronger than Kid Buu who is equal to Goku SSJ3. Gohan is aproximately 1.5 times superior to Super Buu, because Super Buu was equal to Gotenks SSJ3 therefore duplicating his power and dominating Gohan. Gohan could easily defeat Super Buu even though he was just 1.5 times superior, imagine what he can do being more than 200 times superior than Goku. Goku said he can do nothing against Super Buu, he said he neded to fuse with Vegeta to fight him.
So from feats from both anime and manga Ultimate Gohan is stronger and by Statements ✌🏾Goku is stronger. By using ur Evidence ur saying that Goku is stronger Vegito Movie Ssj3 Goju is stronger than Ultimate Gohan though
Daima confirms Goku is strongest by the end of buu saga. SSJ Goku(while being weakened by buu’s body) was able to beat a fake Mystic Gohan(which has the same strength). Goku also says he could beat super buu and he never disagrees. DBZ never ends an arc with a weaker villain, Kid Buu is the strongest Buu(backed up by statements, Toriyama, and guide books).
@ When Goku said that he was referring to the fact that they were only a fraction of their power after being absorbed by Buu. If they got out the state they were in, they wouldn’t stand a chance.
0:46 “Guys, I really just want you to listen.. right like truly immerse yourself in the video.” I completely agree.. I will. However, be warned, every time you make a point based on a lie and a contradiction where nothing is supported and neither the manga nor the anime. I’m gonna call you out on it. Because what happens far too often is a lot of you guys, I’m afraid to you content creators, make head canon statements and unfurls which are blatant lies. And nothing of which that comes from the head canon statement a.k.a. wishful thinkin is true. It is false. The reason why you’re able to sway so many fans it’s because you’re right about certain points or some point and then you Usher in or in for or boldly state lies that is not supported by the manga & the anime. I just wanted to be known the first lie you stated was that the manga and the anime are different. That is the first lie you told. They are the same they tell the same story they show the same events there’s just far more detail in the anime then there is in the manga. All filler in the anime DBZ Kai is canon to the manga, based on a territory and a statement that the manga and the anime are synonymous to each other. That right there is a contradiction to your statement saying that they are different, Akira Toriyama said they are synonymous. In case you forget what that actually means I’m going to give you the definition right here so you & nobody else can run from the truth. Synonymous (of a word or phrase) having the same, or nearly the same meaning as another word, or phrase in the same language. The definition of the word synonymous that I just broke down to all of you right here. Perfectly describes the DBZ manga and the DBZ Kai anime. They both have or sometimes use different words that convey the same meaning and message. This right here exposes any Contant creator or fan in the comment section that continues to uphold the blatant bold lie that the manga is somehow different or separate than the anime. Once again the attic the official author Akira Toriyama stayed this “The Manga (DBZ) & The Anime (DBZ KAI) are Synonymous.
Goku fighting that “perfect” gohan clone inside buu. Okay yeah sure it is true the clone was a strong as gohan. But the clone didn’t even speak and didn’t even know how to use gohans ability’s or fighting skills properly. There’s a difference between fighting a mindless clone ultimate gohan. And fighting the real deal with all his experiences. Plus Goku couldn’t even beat kid buu who Goku states himself he could beat but he couldn’t Becuase of how much ki and stamina ssj3 drains. Even if ssj3 goku is stronger,r gohan could still drag out the fight and Goku is cooked.
This make not sense goku could not beat super buu .. gohan was the only one that could beat him end of story gohan is stronger goku ..with kid buu goku was fighting good matching hes power but but against super buu.. and super buu is the strongest .. so gohan is stronger than goku
As a grown adult, I still can’t believe that kid buu is weaker than the previous forms. I honestly thought his transformations were progressions. I’ve seen people before say Buuhan or Super Buu were stronger and it seemed like nonsense. I guess they were right.
HOW? HOW can you see that as “nonsense?” Buuhan= Fat Buu + Evil Buu + Piccolo + Goten + Trunks + Ultimate Gohan, and this would be somehow WEAKER than none of that?
Every single time a character transforms, it’s an upgrade? So when Gotenks transformed from SS3 into base, and then into Goten and Trunks, that was two upgrades beyond SS3? Really? Tell me: do you believe yourself to be a sapient being? Or is your entire existence as simple as “the next thing I see must be an improvement on whatever was the last thing I saw.”
Personally I believe that when ultimate Gohan first appeared he was the strongest. As Goku did imply that Gotenks was stronger than he was. Now after being revived by the elder kai I believe Goku got a zenkai which put him on par with ultimate Gohan or slightly above ultimate Gohan and Goku just continued to grow in strength from that point on
You have Kid Buu over Super Buu. Super Buu is literally Kid Buu + the power of the absorbed Kais. Fat Buu is an offshoot. Fat Buu is weaker than Kid Buu because the power of the kais inside of him is lowering his power. Once the evil side takes over Majin Buu, Super Buu is born. Fat Buu = Kid Buu - Kais Super Buu = Kid Buu + Kais SS3 Goku > Fat Buu SS3 Goku < Kid Buu We can easily conclude that Ultimate Gohan is stronger than Goku. Goku lost to a weaker version of Majin Buu, Gohan beat a stronger version.
@Evan19900 you know in super Goku got stronger after fusion and was able to fight verge zamasu, while before he was way weaker and the Same is for the buu saga and ssj 3 was already stated to be on par for ultimate Gohan
Great video, personally I think the Herms translations make it clear that even if SS3 Goku with his powerlevel before fusion had fought base Evil Majin Boo (Super Buu) even though it would have been close he would have lost! Remember Goku told Vegeta "if we go out there like this we'll definitely be done in" saying definitely to emphasize his point only illustrates it's still a much closer battle if he goes out there at full size even though he still believes that he would ultimately lose! I think base Evil Majin Boo and SS3 Goku before the fusion but after Elder Kaioshin revives him are probably almost equal, with Evil Majin Boo having the advantage. So how would I explain the fake Z fighters? Well let's take Ultimate Gohan's fake as the prime example, he starts out getting battered by base Goku and fazing in and out of existence one minute to equalling Super Saiyan Goku in a Kamehameha beam struggle the next! The point is that while the fake might have Ultimate Gohan's power he doesn't have real agency or an existence and therefore lacks power that's stable! He also likely only has it at a fractional amount like Goku and Vegeta do while inside Boo's body, but of the same equivalent for Ultimate Gohan as with Goku and Vegeta at the less than 1/100th of full power fraction! I mean, can anyone seriously believe even in the anime that if outside base Goku is over a hundred times stronger than Ultimate Gohan? Now as for the mini Evil Majin Boo avatar who fights Goku and Vegeta inside his own head in the anime, it seems pretty obvious that Boo has to concentrate his power and consciousness to form the mini self in his head and despite being immortal and potentially having access to more power he likely struggles to hold his mini self together! The conclusion is actually that post-fusion SS3 Goku is the one who is equal to Ultimate Gohan, with Pure Majin Boo (Kid Buu) approaching Evil Majin Boo (Gotenks absorbed) aka Buutenks in power since Elder Kaioshin said that even if Gohan and Goku fought that version of Boo together they still wouldn't succeed! Now, over 1.5 - 2× stronger than Ultimate Gohan might not seem like much, but it's a massive amount of power! As for Pure Majin Boo (Kid Buu) being the strongest, he likely only had limited access to Dai Kaioshin's power (limited because Goku and Vegeta had trouble sensing his power and falsely believed that they could take him or that at least SS3 Goku might be able to) or at least that's the best explanation I've got! In otherwords he is the strongest, but it doesn't matter because he doesn't have full access to that power, so obviously minus a majority of hidden divine power he's still objectively weaker than Evil Majin Boo (Gohan absorbed) aka Buuhan and Evil Majin Boo (Gotenks absorbed) aka Buutenks, not to mention Buuhan's enraged dimension scream that you brought up! As for that thing in the Daizenshuu about Goku understanding his fellow strongest, he likely got another boost after Porunga recovered his power not to mention that Super Saiyan version of Goku is pictured with the statement underneath, meaning it's that Goku not the post-fusion SS3 one that fought Kid Buu! So in that Super Genki Dama exchange, it's most likely that they're both the strongest in the Universe as far as everyone is aware at that time since Beerus has yet to be introduced!
90 percent of everyone thinks it's gohan, except in the anime it insinuate that they are about the same and we know that, because goku was going to fuse with him and if gohan was a lot stronger, it would of had a negative effect on the fusion.
@Killua3hunnid I guess your right, the rings let them fuse to anyone? I thought the powers always had to match. I still think they were about even, gohan gets much higher zenkai but ssj3 may have a higher multiplier.
@@AntiWhiteOut yeah with the potara earrings you can fuse with anyone regardless of power level. With the metamoran fusion, the powers have to be matching for it to work
@@YourboyStink Goku being afraid of base super buu, Goku being certain that fusion was the only way to beat Super Buu yet he was confident in beating Kid Buu 1 on 1 and only lost due to stamina issues with SSJ3, Super buu being on par with SSJ3 gotenks, who in SSJ1 was stated to be stronger than SSJ3 Goku, and many more.
SSJ Vegito >>>>>>>> Buuhan > Buutenks > Ultimate Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks > = Super Buu >>>>>>>> SSJ3 Goku > / = Kid Buu > Fat Buu
Once upon of time this was the correct order ranging from Strongest to Weakest but I've noticed within the last few months people have been trying to rewrite the narrative with Kid Buu > all which go against everything said in the original Manga written by Toriyama. Even DBZ Kai (which was made to correct dub errors and be as close to the manga as possible) went by that chain. How did we get here? Idk but it's strange.
Toei scaling loves to make characters as strong as possible without caring for the source material they are adapting from. Lots of fans are like that too.
Kind of an old topic.
1. If you dont have time to read it, skip to point 3, and point 5, as these are most critical/ithink matter the most.
2. Kid Buu = Grand Kaio removed, and removed fusions. The only significant leftover is the SOuth Kaio, who we see as Kid buu becomes very buff.
Super buu = Exact same parts as original fat buu, but he's been re-ordered. This is because the Grand Kaio was stated to have pacified Buu, transforming him int othe fat one we know.
The only different in super buu from Fat BUu (Original) is that Fat buu has the Grand Kaio within surpressing him significantly in terms of output. When he becomes Super Buu, he gains more access to his power, as he's less Grand Kaio, more Original (Kid buu)
When you remove the Grand Kaio and all other parts, you get Kid buu, the "Full power" Of Buu, as its not restrained anymore. And the GRand Kaio is fully within and seperated from Kid buu, placed into fat buu, As we see in Super.
What the debate is, is the "Unsupressed Grand Kaio Kid Buu" Stronger, than a slightly surpressed Super Buu, with Gohan and Piccolo, and Goten and Trunks within him.
3. Koyama Statements: (as the screenwriter for the anime) "Buuhan is the strongest buu as he's a fusion. Fusion is ment to be the strongest. Child Buu may be the stronger unfused Buu. But Buuhan remains the strongest."
Now keep in mind, Koyama was MEGA harassed for stating this, to the point that 4 days later, he randomly posted. "maybe theyre all the same. my apologies." this is after 4 days of Kid buu fan weirdos spam messaging him, commenting on every post, literally debate-hateing him for stating this about the anime. Absolute insane bullying.
Clearly his first comment is true, and his 2nd one is just to stop being harassed.
4. You say "This is Akira Toriyama talking abotu Kid Buu being stronger." no, its not actually. Its actually him talking about the end-game villians tending to always be small. On the greater point, he's talking about when he made Vegeta and Frieza, this stops with cell and (Partially with buu) as Fat buu follows this ,as seemingly docile/innocent despite being evil/twisted.
Kid buu is where it picks up again. But it isnt consistant. As with Cell, he got bigger. Frieza even got larger in his full power state, than his 3rd. As his 1st form is truely small. 2nd form is big. 3rd form is smaller, (Original base) but technically 4th form, is bigger than his first form, but smaller than 2nd and 3rd. Then his 100% form is bigger than his normal form, and 1st form, but not bigger than his 2nd.
Likewise, Vegeta is "Small" but then grew...literally into an ape. And became giant, (lmfao)
Clearly this isnt a consistant point he applied, but only to how they're viewed INTIALLY upon reading.
1. Vegeta smaller than nappa. (Yet becomes huge and stronger)
2. Frieza smaller than all the Ginyu force, but becomes huge, then medium, then small-medium, then medium again.
3. Cell (Cell is huge in first form), still huge in 2nd form, slightly leaner in 3rd form but still tall/larger than all characters.
4. Buu. Fat/Docile (Becomes larger, Becomes stronger and larger, then becomes smaller)
All he's talking about is their base forms if you read the full super exciting guide, and how they're viewed at first. Being unothodox, as the small 1 to start, or innocent/docile characters compared to their henchment dont look like the actual main bad guy.
Buu next to Dabura.
Vegeta next to Nappa.
Frieza next to Ginyu, or anyone else.
Its super consistant in this statement i made. But not in how you've interpreted it.
So if you want to take what he says literally, Frieza's 1st form should be his strongest, its the smallest. I could go on.
5. HUGE POINT HERE.
-Toriyama for ALL his villans has written them as regressed upon thier final hour.
Ill explain.
-Vegeta small, becomes Great ape, is about to win, becomes small (reverts to base) weakened.
-Frieza, small becomes big, then medium, then buffs up again, only to fail and run out of power because of it, dies because of this and reverts
-Cell, becomes perfect, loses despite this, reverts to 2nd form, explodes and dies.
-Buu Starts as small, becomes strongest form (Buuhan) then reverts, just like the other villians, losing power. And dies.
ALL of them have been written to become self-sabotional reverting characters, who lose out from their cheating tactics, or evil ways, and revert form-before dying. Extremely
consistant with his writing style for the main-big bads of the show.
Im curious on your thoughts on these points. Especially #5, and #3, which are insanely concrete.
6. When the statement in-anime, is said that "Goku is the strongest." its referring/keep in mind that Gohan is dead during that time. And only shortly after ressurected.
During this time, its literally said. "Buuhan and Gotenks would make quick work of Buu." as they're fighting.
Dude this is a good ass comment
Yea we ain’t reading all that
@Chris-xc1hm skip to point 3/5 then lol if you can't read go back go school
@@Chris-xc1hm if he doesn't put enough information he's a casual who doesn't know what he is talking about but when he does put information showing he knows what he's talking about y'all can't read even a bit lmao
6:36 Toriyama did not state that Kid Buu is stronger than Buuhan. His quote does not specify any character. He was speaking in general about making small characters strong.
Yeah it doesn't make sense that people think SSJ3 Goku and KidBuu are stronger considering Goku wanted to fuse with Gohan to fight Buutenks.
See that was always my perspective too. But then I just started looking from a different angle. In the manga, ultimate gohan prob is the strongest unfused character. In anime. He is on par with ss3 goku pre-potara. Watch this video until the end as I go into depth
How would his statement not apply to Buuhan and Kid Buu then? They are apart of his story and in his own words he was consciously trying to make an unconventional and contradictory story. Also Toriyama has NEVER ended an Arc’s final fight with his villains in their weakest forms. Great Ape Vegeta, Final Form Frieza, Super Perfect Cell, Kid Buu, etc. I think he fully intended for Kid Buu to be the strongest and it makes sense with his writing style
@@BasedKuuTooGourmetFinally someone who understands.
@@rossjones8426the reason Goku wanted too fuse with Gohan because currently he was one of the strongest there😭(Vegeta not their yet.)
Goku fans still coping on this decades later
they haven’t slept in 20 years
@@CYeoungGohan is easijy losing fohan had no nothing that he's dyronger than goku. Goku already beaten a copy version of goku in super buu body without ssj3 with ease its goku and it's not even close.
@@nevadalotto560 the spelling, the grammar, the broken english. you’re either not a native speaker or you dropped out of 6th grade
Gohan is stronger and has better stamina. Easy answer
super saiyan goku literally one shots ultimate gohan while trapped inside buu😂😂
@@NeonX-xw5ynreal
and goku the better fighter with more heart
@@NeonX-xw5yn that wasn’t Gohan
@@anthonyjost4067 I’ll agree but Gohan is stronger and faster
It stated gohan was the strongest unfused character so that means post vegito gohan is still stronger than post potara fusion goku
No it wasn’t, stop lying.
@@SonZackSSJ9kyou got proof to say other wise
@@BLUDSON717 You got proof to say that it’s an actual statement?
@@SonZackSSJ9kGoku already beaten a copy version of gohan that is as strong as ultimate gohan in super buu body without ssj3 with ease goku wins and its not even close
@@nevadalotto560U know that Buu body fight was filler right? In the manga they immediately get rid of everyone except fat buu and Goku shows fear at the fact of fighting super buu
1:00 Anotha Dope Photo, this tile of Goku & Gohan. Father & Son.
Gohan wins, please stop debating this.
I'm actually neutral and my favorite character is Piccolo, but when it comes to Goku and Gohan, maybe Gohan's ultimate is superior compared to SS3 Goku.😅
Gohan was matching Buutenks but holding back because Goten and Trunks and Piccolo were inside him so obviously Buuhan is still stronger than KidBuu.
Gohan no longer trained at the end of Z he was weaker in Superhero years after he trained early in tournament power.
Facts gohan is stronger is fact stronger than goku
Gohan is stronger than ss3 and don't have the stamina drawbacks as Goku does with ss3.
Gohan had showed nothing at all that he's on par with goku at all. Goku already beaten a copy version of gohan thats as strong as ultimate gohan without ssj3 with ease it's goku abd it's not even close
And goku can easiky hurty up and take gohan out which he already did. He can easiky hurry up and finish gohan off before having stamina problems duh
@@nevadalotto560fake illusion of Gohan not as powerful.
@@nevadalotto560and yet he couldn't beat Cell and let Gohan beat him.
@@nevadalotto560HE NEVER SAID THAT. He said he hits like Gohan.
Is there anything that directly states that they got stronger after the fusion or is that head cannon? I don’t think it’s unreasonable, but without actual evidence in the show, seems like head cannon.
Its just headcannon/misinterpretation/interpreting it in a specific way to conclude later. Without those first analysies you can't consistantly make them stronger.
Its essentially them saying "They're getting a zenkai" when infac,t at this time in Z's history, Akira Toriyama specifically said when questioned why Zenaki's arnt appearing anymore, that "As a Saiyan grows the Zenaki's they recieve become smaller and smaller until they stop"
This was stated during the super exciting guide, specifically.
IT was ret-conned later in Super. But for Z this is applicable.
@@TelariusIt’s really not giving that it’s the only explanation Goku has from being equal to Gohan to being able to beat him in Base. Yall also forget Toriyama Supervised the anime anyways.
@@SonZackSSJ9k It's actually the opposite, we're shown directly that Goku's base is weaker than Gohan's base, and Goku is amazed by it.
This occours right before Gohan goes ultimate, this is super important.
Because Goku briefly trains with Gohan.
He REALLY struggles to use the Z-sword, which is just very heavy. He can barely swing it. Yet Gohan from his trianing, has honed his body to an extreme degree, making his base form VERY strong. Directly shown that its stronger than Gokus.
Both pickup the same sword.
Sword = very heavy.
Gohan, pick it up like nothing in base.
Goku: STruggles to swing it.
Its as direct as it can be.
@ Bro is using a gag moment to prove Gohan is stronger, lmao.
@@SonZackSSJ9k You dont understand what a gag moment is then. Just because its somewhat? Kinda? Funny, dosent mean its any less real.
What a horrible way to view the discussion. At this point you're either an idiot. Or just arguing as a contrarian for the sake of it
That is the single coolest SSJ3 Goku I've ever seen in the thumbnail, please let me know if anybody knows who's art that is
0:55 Dope Photo of SSJ3 Goku
I believe Gohan did surpass Goku some point in the ssj3 Goku but the mistake people make when discussing this is that they think Goku doesn’t get any stronger during the course of Buu arc.
Yes and that was always my problem I think. You have to untrain and truly rewatch the series to get the full scope of everything and all characters
I suppose the other question is how much stronger is super buu than majin fat buu
The Buu saga takes place over the span on 2-3 days and Z didn’t have the absurd Super scaling where characters would just get stronger for no reason in the span of hours/days.
The literal only instance where Goku could have gotten a substantial boost in power is if we assume that both he and Vegeta got stronger after the potara fusion ended. But since there is no concrete proof of this, it would just come down to headcanon.
I think it’s hard to determine a clear winner between ssj3 goku and mystic gohan. I will say that if u make them both even in power then goku wins because of his battle experience and fighting prowess
@@yaelvip9789it’s complete head-canon but what if the old Kai’s life gave goku a little boost in power?
I recently rewatched the Buu Arc because of Daima, and I have to disagree with you here. Narratively it does not make sense that Kid Buu is the strongest. He is the most pure, but that doesn’t equate to his power. Especially after Super Buu absorbs Gohan. There’s just no way in justifying that Kid Buu was stronger than that.
Wouldn’t gohan get a zen Kai boost after fighting buu. Unless I missed it they never counted that. Wouldn’t he have got a significant boost as well?
It's explicitly stated by buu that Gohan does not get any stronger when Dende heals him. Only Goku Black gets zenkai boosts after Namek.
But something about zenkais
Daizenshuu states they are irrelevant after frieza
And dbs manga makes it clear zenkais are irrelevant for example in goku black arc when vegeta got a senzu by trunks yet they said zenkais are too little as they have teached their limit and in the dbs mamga their strength in base at the time was near their strength in buu saga
And when dende heals gohan buutenks states gohan has not got any stronger
Saiyans get stronger in fights by transformations and anger and training which is also what the daizenshuu talks about and dbs and how saiyans got stronger in dbs
In Diama its stated goku is the strongest so goku most likely was the strongest in the buu arc because not much time past and akira in an interview said he doesnt know how else to make his main characters stronger.
Good theory.....I also believe goku and Vegeta got zenkaid against kid buu
But we're still weaker than fusions and ultimate
My biggest issue with this arc is one can tell that the end change from thr path initially planned ...to final fight having to include goku for series end
By what was mentioned in vid that ssj3 is par with ultimate before the potato then yes when diffused ssj3 would be stronger with the zenkai
Even if we assume they're equal in power. SSJ3 is too limited if the battle go the distance. Also Kid Buu is not the strongest. He's the most terrifting/dangerous. It never stated that Kid Buu is the strongest. This is common knowledge amongst DBZ fans.
Gohan . Plain and simple.
Gohan, final answer.
if we only work off statements throughout the story, it's possible to argue kid buu over super buu after shrinking from buff buu (an absorption) based on goku's statements after he's losing, then general portrayals across db media and...
goku basically wins a short fight against gohan and are relative, with his techniques playing a huge part into him being superior to close/ widen the gap since they would be effective
basically there's no point to bring gotenks or gohan to the kai world as gokku thinks if they can't combat kid buu, but kid buu's battle still is treated as if the universe is doomed if they fail implying that goku not being involved is game over somehow
Goku likely had much higher damage output and skill but due to the energy drain a little stall is enough to let Gohan win
You completely disregarded the in-verse evidence, like Goku being afraid of Super Buu. If he was stronger, why did he never try fighting him? And you cant just say Goku magically got stronger post fusion for no reason. Vegito didnt suffer any injuries, so why would Goku get a zenkai? The databooks should just be thrown out and disregarded if they contradict the original source material. Goku nor Kid Buu at ANY point where stronger than Buuhan/Super Buu/ Ultimate Gohan. This scale makes no sense in the slightest.
Even after Cell's Zenkai boost Goku confirmed Gohan was still strong enough to kill Cell.
1:56 You have SSJ2 Gohan do you have this placed as pre-mystic form. But what you don’t realize is Gohan was never in a trance form state he was only in his base form. So that is also a lie, however you didn’t know you were lying but after you read this comment you will know that you are in the wrong. Because there is zero evidence to support your claim. So technically that should be called inner potential unlocked base form Gohan.
Kid buu is stronger than buuhan, it was stated in the dragon ball super manga (Moro arc) that kid buu got all of the god from fat buu once seperation due to absorbing the fat daikioshin (It was stated in the manga dont believe read the moro arc) and also in the fight against kid buu Goku stated that kid buu power was growing stronger as he fought, and yall should know that getting divine amplifies the users strength as they fight so yes kid buu is stronger than buuhan, I mean the evidence is there. I dont understand why people is denying that kid buu is stronger than buuhan EVEN THE TORIYAMA SAID SO.
Gohan is stronger they is no queen about it
Nah the manga has goku as the strongest too. Its not just the anime the anime just makes it more obvious.
1st we need to establish that super buus strength increase is never portrayed as a large increase. Super buu is portrayed as a rearrangement of the same components only changing who is in control. Super buu can just draw out that power more easily and has the desire to actually use it. Goku is stated to be above fat buu even in a suppressed ssj3 form and with the lack of any statements or feats to compare the 2 we cant say which is stronger for now.
So at this point we have established both super buu and goku are over fat buu but havent established who is stronger between them. So now we move on to the inside buu statements. People talk enough about the cant go out like this statement but ignore the scene preceeding it where vegeta outright states that if they return buu to base form he should not be a problem and fusion should not be necessary. Its important to note goku disagrees with vegeta but not on the basis of their strength but because he is not certain they will even be able to rescue their kids. Remember this is uncharted territory and goku is taking a cautious approach while vegeta is confident in their current plan and strength. This leads into the next scene where they do succeed in removing the kids and are going to leave. Goku is portrayed as having a realization that at their current level they cant fight super buu. However only a page before we have goku and vegeta speaking confidently of fighting base super buu. This would appear to be a contradiction if you dont pay attention to the specific wording of "like this" referencing the fact they are smaller and confirmed narratively to be weaker in that state. Again, we, having read the manga, have hindsight to know things work out but goku or vegeta have no reason to believe they would return to normal at this point. We even see goku look surprised and celebrate everyone returning to normal confirming that was a concern of his before.
Now we move on to removing fat buu. Initially they do that with the expectation that buu would get weaker but its explicitly stated in the manga that buus ki increases by goku and again confirmed by shin that the presence of the grand supreme kai inside buu weakened him. Despite being confirmed stronger goku and vegeta still remain confident they can defeat kid buu. Now obviously kid buu goes on to prove them wrong as we later find out kid buu is playing with them the entire time but it doesnt change that in that moment the increased level of strength they felt was still confortable enough for them to face.
As you can see the most consistent portrayal of goku is that he is above super buu level. The anime guides and interviews firther clarify this as well.
0:39 “I know technically, the manga & the anime are different.”
You are lying and I can prove it. The manga DBZ and the anime DBZ Kai is the same in the freezer arc, the cell arc, & The Buu Arc. I find your fans are very disingenuous when it comes to the third art because that’s the only time you guys will separate among us from the anime but I hypocrite because you keep the manga and anime the same when it comes to the previous two hours. The only point of contention you guys have it because you want to go hard to be stronger so you’re separating among in the anime when they are never actually separated.
Even if goku ssj 3 slightly stronger wouldnt he just burn out of stamina?
Given that Ultimate form exceeds that of SSJ3 and the guides states that Ultimate Gohan being on par with SSJ3 Goku this makes me question whether or not SSJ3 is 4x SSJ2
I believe that ssj2 is 200x base and not 100 ......so my theory 200 x4= a stronger ssj3 but i believe goku is still weaker than ultimate gohan
This is not a debate... Goku literally stated that he would not be able to defeat super Buu even with Vegeta's help after they released Gohan and the others. Meanwhile Gohan destroyed super Buu. Debate close and Gohan is WAY WAY stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Goku SSJ3 >>> Gotenks SSJ3 = Super Buu < Gohan < Buutenks and so on. Super Buu is leagues above fat Buu and Goku is slightly superior to fat Buu.
hey before fusion he is slightly weaker then ultimate gohan but after fusion they defuse inside Buuhan and they get zenkai boost and goku fights with gohans copy and say he is strong as original ultimate gohan and defeat him that's why and yeah kid buu is stronger than Buuhan
@@SajdaArif-t1h there is a lot wrong with your comment.
1. Goku is not slightly weaker than Gohan. He is far weaker. Gohan destroyed super buu and Goku was scared to fight super buu without fusion.
2. At this point of the story zenkais are not as relevant as they once were. The boost arent nearly as massive as in frieza saga.
3. Makes 0 sense that the Gohan copy is as strong as Gohan. Gohan is about 1.5x stronger than super buu and Goku fought it in his base form just like Vegeta fought Gotenks and Vegeta is nowhere near Gotenks. Vegeta lost badly vs fat buu while Gotenks is even with super buu. that statement is irrelevant.
@@joaosoares2570 oh I understand your a kid minded🤡🤡🤡
1:16 Goku & Vegeta are Astronomically Stronger than we thought in the beginning of The Buu Saga, in the middle & the end.
This is absolutely false. And I’m not going to state Y until you come to the point in discussion that is most relevant. Which you will be getting to soon enough, I have patience.
Zenkai isn't a massive power up Vegeta fought Frieza then let Killian blast him before Genda healed him it didn't work out.
Does this mean the fusion multipliers are alot weaker than we think.???...
No they’re a lot stronger actuators. Guides stating even base Vegito is stronger perhaps than a ss4, who is astronomically stronger than buu saga ss3 Goku. Daizenshu says that Vegito is strongest in known universe. For the original story obviously
But kid buu aint the stronger tho
Wanna join my scan server for db?
Super Vegetto > Super Buu Gohan
Base Vegetto = Super Buu Gohan (maybe)
Super Buu Gohan > Super Buu Gotenks
Super Buu Gotenks > Ultimate Gohan
Ultimate Gohan > Super Buu Piccoro
Super Buu Piccoro > Super Buu
Super Buu = Gotenks SSJ3 aka Super Gotenks
Gotenks post Time Chamber (base) > Evil Fat Buu
Goku SSJ3 = Kid Buu
Goku SSJ3 > Evil Fat Buu
Evil fat Buu > Gotenks pre Time Chamber (base)
Evil fat Buu > Evil Buu
Evil Buu > Fat Buu
Kid Buu > Fat Buu
Super Buu is 200 times stronger than Kid Buu who is equal to Goku SSJ3. Gohan is aproximately 1.5 times superior to Super Buu, because Super Buu was equal to Gotenks SSJ3 therefore duplicating his power and dominating Gohan. Gohan could easily defeat Super Buu even though he was just 1.5 times superior, imagine what he can do being more than 200 times superior than Goku.
Goku said he can do nothing against Super Buu, he said he neded to fuse with Vegeta to fight him.
So from feats from both anime and manga Ultimate Gohan is stronger and by Statements ✌🏾Goku is stronger.
By using ur Evidence ur saying that Goku is stronger Vegito
Movie Ssj3 Goju is stronger than Ultimate Gohan though
Daima confirms Goku is strongest by the end of buu saga. SSJ Goku(while being weakened by buu’s body) was able to beat a fake Mystic Gohan(which has the same strength). Goku also says he could beat super buu and he never disagrees. DBZ never ends an arc with a weaker villain, Kid Buu is the strongest Buu(backed up by statements, Toriyama, and guide books).
Goku never says that he can beat super Buu. In fact he says from the manga I don't think we can beat this guy even if we go out. Stop making shit up.
@ When Goku said that he was referring to the fact that they were only a fraction of their power after being absorbed by Buu. If they got out the state they were in, they wouldn’t stand a chance.
0:46 “Guys, I really just want you to listen.. right like truly immerse yourself in the video.”
I completely agree.. I will. However, be warned, every time you make a point based on a lie and a contradiction where nothing is supported and neither the manga nor the anime. I’m gonna call you out on it.
Because what happens far too often is a lot of you guys, I’m afraid to you content creators, make head canon statements and unfurls which are blatant lies. And nothing of which that comes from the head canon statement a.k.a. wishful thinkin is true. It is false. The reason why you’re able to sway so many fans it’s because you’re right about certain points or some point and then you Usher in or in for or boldly state lies that is not supported by the manga & the anime.
I just wanted to be known the first lie you stated was that the manga and the anime are different. That is the first lie you told. They are the same they tell the same story they show the same events there’s just far more detail in the anime then there is in the manga. All filler in the anime DBZ Kai is canon to the manga, based on a territory and a statement that the manga and the anime are synonymous to each other. That right there is a contradiction to your statement saying that they are different, Akira Toriyama said they are synonymous.
In case you forget what that actually means I’m going to give you the definition right here so you & nobody else can run from the truth.
Synonymous (of a word or phrase) having the same, or nearly the same meaning as another word, or phrase in the same language.
The definition of the word synonymous that I just broke down to all of you right here. Perfectly describes the DBZ manga and the DBZ Kai anime. They both have or sometimes use different words that convey the same meaning and message. This right here exposes any Contant creator or fan in the comment section that continues to uphold the blatant bold lie that the manga is somehow different or separate than the anime. Once again the attic the official author Akira Toriyama stayed this “The Manga (DBZ) & The Anime (DBZ KAI) are Synonymous.
Goku fighting that “perfect” gohan clone inside buu. Okay yeah sure it is true the clone was a strong as gohan. But the clone didn’t even speak and didn’t even know how to use gohans ability’s or fighting skills properly. There’s a difference between fighting a mindless clone ultimate gohan. And fighting the real deal with all his experiences. Plus Goku couldn’t even beat kid buu who Goku states himself he could beat but he couldn’t Becuase of how much ki and stamina ssj3 drains. Even if ssj3 goku is stronger,r gohan could still drag out the fight and Goku is cooked.
Evwn if Gohan aint stronger than Goku he can just wait until ssj3 runs out but ig thats not the point of this topic
This make not sense goku could not beat super buu .. gohan was the only one that could beat him end of story gohan is stronger goku ..with kid buu goku was fighting good matching hes power but but against super buu.. and super buu is the strongest .. so gohan is stronger than goku
As a grown adult, I still can’t believe that kid buu is weaker than the previous forms. I honestly thought his transformations were progressions. I’ve seen people before say Buuhan or Super Buu were stronger and it seemed like nonsense. I guess they were right.
HOW? HOW can you see that as “nonsense?” Buuhan= Fat Buu + Evil Buu + Piccolo + Goten + Trunks + Ultimate Gohan, and this would be somehow WEAKER than none of that?
@ again, I always looked at transformations as upgrades. It’s simple as that.
Every single time a character transforms, it’s an upgrade? So when Gotenks transformed from SS3 into base, and then into Goten and Trunks, that was two upgrades beyond SS3?
Really? Tell me: do you believe yourself to be a sapient being? Or is your entire existence as simple as “the next thing I see must be an improvement on whatever was the last thing I saw.”
@TrvisXXIII Buu wasn't transforming, he was losing people he had absorbed and slowly devolving into his base form
@DatDude0925 dude we're talking about anime here why are you being an ass?
When's the last time you went outside??
So south kai > SS3 goku.
W VIDEO CORRECT CONCLUSION
No
Personally I believe that when ultimate Gohan first appeared he was the strongest. As Goku did imply that Gotenks was stronger than he was. Now after being revived by the elder kai I believe Goku got a zenkai which put him on par with ultimate Gohan or slightly above ultimate Gohan and Goku just continued to grow in strength from that point on
You have Kid Buu over Super Buu. Super Buu is literally Kid Buu + the power of the absorbed Kais.
Fat Buu is an offshoot. Fat Buu is weaker than Kid Buu because the power of the kais inside of him is lowering his power. Once the evil side takes over Majin Buu, Super Buu is born.
Fat Buu = Kid Buu - Kais
Super Buu = Kid Buu + Kais
SS3 Goku > Fat Buu
SS3 Goku < Kid Buu
We can easily conclude that Ultimate Gohan is stronger than Goku. Goku lost to a weaker version of Majin Buu, Gohan beat a stronger version.
Great video going over how strong ssj3 is and how he got a zenki after fused and how he is stronget than ultimate Gohan
No evidence of post fusion power up.
@Evan19900 you know in super Goku got stronger after fusion and was able to fight verge zamasu, while before he was way weaker and the Same is for the buu saga and ssj 3 was already stated to be on par for ultimate Gohan
@@ggrhd-d1u We're talking about Z not Super. Super retconned things 30 plus years later. Not concerned with Super. At all.
@@ggrhd-d1u No one cares about recons that came out 30 years later bro. Z not Super.
Great video, personally I think the Herms translations make it clear that even if SS3 Goku with his powerlevel before fusion had fought base Evil Majin Boo (Super Buu) even though it would have been close he would have lost! Remember Goku told Vegeta "if we go out there like this we'll definitely be done in" saying definitely to emphasize his point only illustrates it's still a much closer battle if he goes out there at full size even though he still believes that he would ultimately lose! I think base Evil Majin Boo and SS3 Goku before the fusion but after Elder Kaioshin revives him are probably almost equal, with Evil Majin Boo having the advantage. So how would I explain the fake Z fighters? Well let's take Ultimate Gohan's fake as the prime example, he starts out getting battered by base Goku and fazing in and out of existence one minute to equalling Super Saiyan Goku in a Kamehameha beam struggle the next!
The point is that while the fake might have Ultimate Gohan's power he doesn't have real agency or an existence and therefore lacks power that's stable! He also likely only has it at a fractional amount like Goku and Vegeta do while inside Boo's body, but of the same equivalent for Ultimate Gohan as with Goku and Vegeta at the less than 1/100th of full power fraction! I mean, can anyone seriously believe even in the anime that if outside base Goku is over a hundred times stronger than Ultimate Gohan? Now as for the mini Evil Majin Boo avatar who fights Goku and Vegeta inside his own head in the anime, it seems pretty obvious that Boo has to concentrate his power and consciousness to form the mini self in his head and despite being immortal and potentially having access to more power he likely struggles to hold his mini self together! The conclusion is actually that post-fusion SS3 Goku is the one who is equal to Ultimate Gohan, with Pure Majin Boo (Kid Buu) approaching Evil Majin Boo (Gotenks absorbed) aka Buutenks in power since Elder Kaioshin said that even if Gohan and Goku fought that version of Boo together they still wouldn't succeed! Now, over 1.5 - 2× stronger than Ultimate Gohan might not seem like much, but it's a massive amount of power!
As for Pure Majin Boo (Kid Buu) being the strongest, he likely only had limited access to Dai Kaioshin's power (limited because Goku and Vegeta had trouble sensing his power and falsely believed that they could take him or that at least SS3 Goku might be able to) or at least that's the best explanation I've got! In otherwords he is the strongest, but it doesn't matter because he doesn't have full access to that power, so obviously minus a majority of hidden divine power he's still objectively weaker than Evil Majin Boo (Gohan absorbed) aka Buuhan and Evil Majin Boo (Gotenks absorbed) aka Buutenks, not to mention Buuhan's enraged dimension scream that you brought up! As for that thing in the Daizenshuu about Goku understanding his fellow strongest, he likely got another boost after Porunga recovered his power not to mention that Super Saiyan version of Goku is pictured with the statement underneath, meaning it's that Goku not the post-fusion SS3 one that fought Kid Buu! So in that Super Genki Dama exchange, it's most likely that they're both the strongest in the Universe as far as everyone is aware at that time since Beerus has yet to be introduced!
90 percent of everyone thinks it's gohan, except in the anime it insinuate that they are about the same and we know that, because goku was going to fuse with him and if gohan was a lot stronger, it would of had a negative effect on the fusion.
No thats only the case with metamoran fusion. Goku almost even fused with Hercule remember?
@Killua3hunnid I guess your right, the rings let them fuse to anyone? I thought the powers always had to match. I still think they were about even, gohan gets much higher zenkai but ssj3 may have a higher multiplier.
@@AntiWhiteOut yeah with the potara earrings you can fuse with anyone regardless of power level. With the metamoran fusion, the powers have to be matching for it to work
Kid Buu one shots he’s been stated too be the strongest multiple times
lol you so dumb bro
Super Buu has feats, statements, and actual evidence to back him up. Kid Buu has like two weak statements at best ☠
@@juliomedina-pq2oi mind telling me those feats and statements so I can debunk them? Also you might wanna look more because kid Buu has way more
@@juliomedina-pq2oi also tell me how the final villain of the arc is the weakest? This was never shown in dragon ball
@@YourboyStink Goku being afraid of base super buu, Goku being certain that fusion was the only way to beat Super Buu yet he was confident in beating Kid Buu 1 on 1 and only lost due to stamina issues with SSJ3, Super buu being on par with SSJ3 gotenks, who in SSJ1 was stated to be stronger than SSJ3 Goku, and many more.