Just got rejected for a Product role at TikTok after 5 rounds over the course of almost 2 months…and this video just popped up. Maybe its for the best, thanks for sharing!
5 rounds? Seriously. I feel like that is so disrespectful for the time of the interviewee. 5 rounds is not necessary to determine if someone is a good candidate, period.
My wife works at TikTok as a Product Manager. And it's 100% what you described.... Personally, I think it's a distorted lifestyle and I'd always said treat this as a landing pad from something greater and better. Well done to you Chloe for mustering up the courage to quit! I also like your direct style in performance meetings - that is 100% the way to do it.
Hi Chloe! I'm also a product manager at TikTok and I 100% relate. The work culture is very toxic (esp. in China offices), people would compete who stayed the latest at work and blamed people who left at 8pm (which is already pretty late for me). PUA culture is also very true and it keeps making myself questioning whether I'm a capable PM. I do not get recognized for the hard work I've done, the leadership encouraged taking over other people's scope in order to get a promotion, co-workers backstabbing everyone... unfortunately I've experienced all of this and it's been making me really sad and wanting to quit :( I really appreciate you sharing this and just wanted to say that you made the right choice and I'm accumulating my courage to make the decision too !
It's true. The word toxic accurately describes the current vibe here in TikTok. It's still a good company with an abundance of talents and kind people that I do not regret working with. it's still a good company if you want to do exciting projects or try crazy thoughts, as long as you don't expect to climb the corporate ladder with certain fairness. Otherwise, choose teams cautiously. Hope for the best for all bytedancer!
I promise no one there is handling that culture "just fine." Everyone is burnt out and upset about it. Some people are just better at hiding it. Remind yourself of that when you feel like you failed because you didn't stay longer.
Hi Blue! Thank you for your support! I did get a lot of messages after posting this video that they’re going through extremely similar things and it was great to feel seen here. We really don’t talk about this in enough specificity to be actionable. :(
As a career manager of 20+ years, my biggest trigger was a lack of clearly defined goals for leveling. Completely unacceptable in 2021. That would be the first in warning sign to leave ANY company. Not even for leveling but for anything. As seen in your example this leaves too much room for... "opinions. Which never works and leaves room for discrimination, nepotism, favoritism and many other isms. Imagine if the board of directors measured the top brass in the same way... in fact... actually nevermind. Thank you very much for this post. Well done and well said. This needs to be done more often!
20 years! Super seasoned!! Thank you for validating this experience as well. A lot of senior execs tell us that “we’re on a rocket ship. We won’t have all the processes figured out, but we’re working on it. You should just be focused on making big impact”. These all sounds “fine” at first, but in the end, leveling and concrete career development are pushed aside, which then leads to all the things you mentioned. It is a yellow flag that turns in a red one real fast!
This comment is so valuable and it took me so long to figure it out. Ask the company or hiring manager how he defines success (and bonus points if it is a number). If he can't give you a straight answer, he probably hasn't thought about it. This is a red flag! You don't want to extend the pain of working in the wrong environment because you failed to ask these questions when you got hired.
Glad you’re getting extra signals! I do want to say that not every team will have this experience. Honestly, I really wish I could have stayed. There were plenty of other teams that recruited me and I think their situations were pretty great. I just didn’t see a full fit for my career focus, team culture, and leadership opportunities all in one. Make sure you do your due diligence with the direct teams you’re interested in!
This is a great video, Chloe. We all can tell this has not been an easy decision for you, but seriously GOOD FOR YOU to put yourself first and walk away from a situation that was no longer serving you and respecting your boundaries. A lot of good will come out of this, and the fact that you are so candidly paying it forward on YT will also bring you many good things that you can’t even predict yet. Wishing you all best, and thanks for sharing this experience.
Hi Nelson 👋 Ahh yes it was pretty hard. I went back and forth a lot while filming, editing, and almost uploading. Im glad you found it helpful!! That’s all I was hoping for. :)
One thing I have learned in my entire career life, being too outspoken doesn’t brings you anywhere but actually created the air of intimidation especially to your superior.
Ahhh I should have provided a trigger warning. I’m sorry to hear that you experienced this too. It really should not be this common!! :( thank you for your words of support, DivineFeelings!
sooo.. I'm back to this video, after I just left Tiktok. I was here 2 years ago starting my career at Tiktok, I didn't know its gonna be 2 years. Now that I come back to re-watch this, I resonate almost every single point.. and I'm still contemplating if I should make a video about my experience there
I can totally relate from working at another company. What I’ve learned is a job is just a job, and you should always be prepared to leave. Also, while feedback is good and helps you grow, there can be so many awful people who just give bad feedback and with bad intentions, so just take it as a grain of salt and always always always know your worth! Find a place where they value you. I’m happy to say I’m working at a much better place and getting paid more. I had to think through and deal with some of the trauma I had from my old work. It’s not easy but I believe it made me stronger and more resilient. There are bullies in the workplace and they are actively trying to push people down just for the sake to make themselves look better and/or they really want to hurt someone they deem as a threat. They know how to play the system and be buddies with the right people. They will not hold back because in their mind it’s you or them. Every company has these kinds of people but when the company and its culture encourages and is apathetic to these types of people and their behavior, it’s a huge sign this place is toxic.
Thank you for sharing publicly about this, Chloe. I'm frankly shocked about some of the feedback managers shared with you, terrible! I'm glad you found the courage to pick up your stuff and leave, to pursue a life that's more aligned with your values. I also appreciate that this is not a 'kicking back' video, but that you shared your personal experience and also noticed the good/interesting things that happen there.
Toxic environments still exists, And while I've experience a good bit of them, I've never experienced what you did so directly like that. You're such a strong woman Chloe! I'm glad you took action and at the same treated it as a learning experience and improved from it. (I keep adding something more to say, but keep removing it cause, well it's mean. Let's just say I'm super aggravated that you had to experience this kind of treatment. I probably would not have taken it so well.) I'm proud of you Chloe!
Hi Kevin! Ah I know. Unfortunately, my time here wasn’t the worst that I’ve experienced in my career. In an unfortunate way, my previous toxic workplaces built up a lot of my skin so I was pretty prepared coming here. I really don’t think it should be the norm for people to experience this, and I hope employers set up accountability to encourage treating people right all over the industry
Good for you Chloe! No amount of money or high status position justifies ruining your mental and physical health! I think you are a very bright inspiring person and I look up to you! Cheers Martin
Agreed! But honestly I’m still struggling with that. It’s definitely easy to say but hard for me to judge when the hard work weeks come. :( hope I can keep growing to develop healthier habits and boundaries! Thank you for dropping a comment.
I know! It’s a total cop-out. They’re like “we’re on a rocket ship and we have 10x growth which means we won’t have all the processes in place”. Which honestly is fine in principle, but it turns out to be an excuse to never think about how to make sure there’s equity and fairness for talent to develop
Ah it took so much going back and forth for me to finally decide. I was even scared wild filming and while editing. I’m glad the message got through. Thank you for your support, Alice!
I am so sorry to hear what you have gone thru and happy at the same time as you have decided to move on. You will do great in other places. I truly understand the importance of mental peace while working as a PM and it should be non-negotiable.
This is the first video I ever watched from you, but you're incredibly brave for posting this. I feel like more and more people, especially women, are opening up on their workplace experiences. I find this really important that we can finally start talking openly about our workplace experiences, good or bad, since the workforce is usually forced to remain quiet out of fear for retaliation. Especially women. You're doing yourself and a lot of people a huge service by sharing this. So thank you. I can only imagine how much consideration this must have taken to post this.
You explained everything I went through in my last position. When I tried reaching out to HR they came back and called me a liar which is when I knew enough was enough. It's unfortunate that this happens way more than it should, especially for females in the tech field. Good for you for getting out and talking about it!
Ally!! Omg this happens just way too often. I’m constantly shocked at how HR at companies tend to react when there are sticky situations at work. More often than not, the person at the “lower rank” gets booted out even when the senior manager is the person at fault. :( calling you a liar is so out of pocket. I’m glad you’re out of there too!!
@@chloeshih When the overall working environment is bad in a company, don’t expect how good the HR team can be, they partially represent the working culture already. Some signs can be found even during the first round interview with them.
My goodness, coming across this video today is a blessing. Ive just been thrashed of hike, let alone a promotion after slogging a whole year! Thankyou for being honest and open about it.
What I learned from this clip is that we need to set clear boundaries and identify our non-negotiatabels. This will be the foundation of any decision we make throughout our careers. This is so valuable! Thank you so much for sharing ❤️
I think it may be the case where it's a function of insisting on an 80s working culture in today's environment. True it now will take a lot to change, but that needed not have happened in the first place.
Thank you @Stella!! You’ve seen me through the years struggling at different companies haha. It’s been a long time coming and I hope to share more of these battles publicly to bring more awareness to how people treat each other when there’s no accountability.
A lot of this is more to do with Chinese working culture bleeding over to overseas entities as well. Most American tech companies are notoriously lax in their work culture (e.g. LinkedIn).
Thank you so much for sharing your story! It’s so helpful to hear things like this so that other people know it’s okay to walk away from an environment that just isn’t suiting their needs. Hope you find a great new opportunity that empowers you and gives you some work life balance!
Hi Alisa!! Wow - another PM!! :D And yes, learning to walk away isn't an easy thing, but I'm glad I've been able to exercise that muscle this time around.
I’m sorry you had to go through that. The Great Resignation has demonstrated that employees won’t stand for this kind of toxic culture anymore. Hope your next journey is more fulfilling and is a better fit career wise and in alignment with your personal goals.
Chloe! Thank you so much for putting this video out - I know it wasn't easy but it is incredibly insightful. I interviewed for TikTok this year and was extremely hesitant with going through due to the reasons you listed, which I kinda gauged from Glassdoor. As a woman of colour - psychological safety, career growth, internal sponsorship, and work-life balance is CRITICAL. TikTok is a fast-growing startup company but if it doesn't have the internal infrastructure to create a good team environment, then that's a full-stop. Success is not a success if it is at the expense of our mental health and growth. I am super glad you are putting yourself first and know your worth.
Hi Halla! Also check Blind too! I feel lots of reviews are moving there nowadays. I’m glad you were able to get the right signals for your decision. My psychological safety was truly impacted. :( Im definitely looking out for these signals for myself too!
So happy to hear from you on this topic. I have faced few of those and yes, life is so short to take any form of negativity. Found out tests should really be carried out by employees on companies they would work for, regardless of their assumed workplace culture. The words in the book "You don't have to be mad to work here..." still ring bells in my head when I evaluate companies I would want to work with.
Totally agree. I had to have very honest conversations with my friends and therapist that I can also choose not to work at a place that brings me negativity. Life's too short to deal with these kinds of places!
Wow great video Chloe and sorry you had to go through this experience! I worked in China for 10 years and everything you said resonated with me a lot. The work culture there is very toxic and not cooperative, which is in stark contrast with expectations here. Especially the "you need to think deeper" comments. No one can think of everything. Yet in China PMs are expected to be the sole source of truth, so success of projects rests on the shoulders of one person and that person has to save face at all costs (defend against attackers). It's definitely not a language barrier. Those in China have the same issues. When I moved back to the US working for a Chinese company I had the exact same work/life balance issues, sleep disorders, etc. It took a long time to recover. I'm glad you are doing better!
Hey Chloe, thanks for speaking up about this. I experienced this myself working in a SEA office 2 years ago. I thought that maybe things might have changed since then but your video shows otherwise. Honestly, you really need to be in tune with their way of doing things if you want to climb in the company. Glad you’re moving onto a place that really appreciates you! All the best in your future endeavours!
I'm so, so glad you shared your experience, Chloe!!! I don't think I could ever be as articulate as you, and I hope you know that a lot of folks are going to feel so validated hearing your story. I'm wishing you all the best in finding a workplace that gives you what you're looking for
Hi Pam!! Thank you for your words of support! I wish I could’ve shared more details. There were so many WOC stories that happened to my friends that I wanted to bring to light. There were also so many tense microaggression moments that are so nuanced to talk about in a 15 min video :(. I just wish that being a WOC doesn’t hold people back in their careers soon. Wishing you the best in your career as well!! 🥰
Speaking from further down the line Chloe, you've absolutely made the right decision. I resigned from the UN late last year, after many of the issues you've experienced affected me also. So much so, it was not only affecting my own health, but my family's directly too. I had missed my daughters first year entirely due to 70+hr working weeks and with my Chief of Mission's callous and sociopathic leadership style, I couldn't give any more of myself to facilitate her journey to the top. It's been the best decision I've ever made. However, with similar negging and gaslighting behaviours from my CoM, prepare yourself for bouts of self-doubt, esteem rebuilding and a feeling of loss or grief. They will pass, of course. But, if I could give you any one piece of advice it's this... be kind to yourself, be proud and reassured that you were in the role for a reason and particularly give yourself enough time to step into a new role again. Don't rush. Just breathe.
Hi Eoghanaldo 👋 I’m sorry to hear about your insanely rough experiences at the UN. :( you would think such a reputable place would have accountability for this, but the reality doesn’t reflect that. I’m honestly so worried about this trend in the workplace to dedicate so many waking hours to “emergencies” at work especially when I will have children. I definitely don’t ever want to miss special events for my family in the future and am building the muscles to keep healthy boundaries now. Thank you for your kind messages and words of wisdom!
@@chloeshih Being honest Chloe, it was rough indeed, but I'm a white European male and know it could've been so much worse if I had been of other demographics. I've heard of, and seen, people at a variety of other locations and of other ethnicities, gender and cultural backgrounds loaded with far more additional behaviours linked to those factors. That being said, I share your thoughts in having to highlight that the misbehaviour I experienced is often displayed at senior leadership levels. These are levels where a corporate race attitude purveys. It's 1%. I couldn't and cannot say anything to the detriment of the hundreds of thousands of general and lower professional staff within the UN who sacrifice so much daily. They're the ones really who keep the ship steered the right way 🙂. I think it's interesting though the contrast, or lack thereof, between agile and modern leadership often highlighted within tech and the hierarchical archaic version seen in older institutions. Often, they come full circle to the classic, kill or be killed carnivore leader who is threatened by collaboration and resistent of supporting others along their journey. It's a certain human nature for some to abuse their way to seniority. Thank you for shining a light on an industry that often goes under the radar when it comes to employee welfare. Wishing you all the very best in your next steps Chloe! Enjoy this time 🙂
I recognized some of the burnout and unhappiness sprinkled throughout your videos. I have been in a similar situation and I'm SO happy for you. Those hours are unsustainable.
Haha I know! I definitely wanted to keep things more authentic on the vlogs. It really was not a sustainable schedule. Thank you for your continued support, KT!
Hi Chloe, thank you so much for sharing your story. This is 100% relatable for me right now, as I have gone through something very similar recently. I am sorry that you went through all of this, but on another end, I feel comforted to hear learnings and thoughts from a person that had a similar experience. This was a great and professional way of sharing your experience. Wishing the best for you in your current journey as an entrepreneur! P.S. Jomo is my weekly go to podcast 💙
Chloe Shih's space is incredible! Her tech and product management videos are a game-changer for me. I've learned so much and feel inspired to pursue a career in these fields. Thank you, Chloe, for sharing your expertise and making it accessible to aspiring professionals like me!
Thanks for articulating the various issues which "leaders" or "maangement" always try to make it seem an non-issue, probably because it's due to themselves not having any incentive to deal with it. You take care and I think you are really a amazing individual, clearly intelligent and a go-getter who dare to share what you want. You are my new role model.
Hey Chloe! As a fellow girl working in Tech over in Sydney (and small TH-camr), thank you for sharing your experience with everyone! Work culture is SO important and I'm so sorry to hear you had to experience that. I'm glad you took the steps and I'm excited to hear about the next steps of your career :)
Thanks Chloe for coming out and sharing this story. I could 100% relate to you, as someone who used to work in a tech company with similar leadership and culture as TikTok (I shall not name it - it’s a public listed company in the US market and one of the very first unicorns in SEA). I totally agree that health took a big toll on me, not just physical but also mental health, and was one of the main reasons for my resignation. It took me a year to realize and had the courage to quit, despite the fact that I had to take a pay cut in the next company. But I felt so much relieved and I never regretted it. As your friend said, health cannot be traded for anything. Having said that, it doesn’t mean the company is totally bad. On a bright side, I have met so many great colleagues who still remain friends until today and I’ve learned sooo much in such a short period of time. It’s just that this culture is not for everyone, and we all have different priorities in our career.
Ah I’m sorry to hear you went through this before :( I wish this weren’t so common. Health really cannot be traded. I gotta challenge myself to put health first in my next step.
oof sounds like a tough environment and glad you got out of it. i've worked in banking and while i didn't go through the same struggles as you, definitely know what toxic co-workers and a no-sleep work culture is like. this was a very insightful video looking into the cultures of one of the most successful companies of all time - thank you for sharing and wish you all the best with your next opportunity!
Omg banking sounds so scary to me based on what I’ve heard. I joined tech because I thought the culture would be nicer. Thank you for your words of support! I hope to continue to share!
Girl! The way that I can relate to every thing you are saying! You explained this so well and very respectfully. I’m proud of you for taking that leap and thank you for the courage to admit that things were not working out. It sounds so difficult to go through what you dealt with. I hope your health continues to improve more. I recently left my last employer for just about the same reasons and also has issues sleeping.
Chloe, I'm so glad you posted this. It is so hard to know what is a toxic work culture when you are living it. Your outline helps us all recognize the signs. So many of those examples were truly unbelievable to hear. I am glad you made the decision that was right for you. I can't wait to see what's in store for your future. I look forward to more updates/videos!
Hi Roy! I’m glad you found this video helpful! Seeing the signs made it so much easier for me when I realized what was happening. I’m glad this information helps others see the patterns to help make the right decisions in their lives! I definitely plan on sharing more about my journey on this channel ~
Thank you for the transparency on this! It takes a lot of courage to share about these topics, my fear has been the backlash of potential new employers. But when I shared my video on being fired from a toxic job, it was scary yet therapeutic.
Finally. Someone who speaks up on the importance of promotion route esp. for someone who works hard and have the results to prove for. Phew. They would always talk about "doing the work first, we will promote when we figure it out" and that is really a huge red flag in work place. Finally.
I felt so much from watching this and hearing you speak your truth Chloe. I've been thru this before. Except i didn't know how to express it. People didn't believe me when I tried to explain it. Proud of you for sharing and esp documenting the incidents.
It took me a while to write this 😭😭 there was so much I initially wrote but trimmed out a lot and kept things vague in fear of retaliation or idk anything really. I’m sorry to hear that you went through something similar too. Hope you’re in a much better place!
It’s so unfortunate that this happens to far too many people in so many tech companies, moving goal posts when it comes to promos, managers putting pressure on their reports to “prove” to them that they deserve to be promoted when it’s literally their job to manage to your success… backstabbing between a colleagues, list go on for ages. Good for you for drawing a line in the sand and getting out of there. Hope your next role is more rewarding professionally and interpersonally.
I was there for less than a year and our experiences align. I don’t work in product, but ~80% of what you articulated here, I echo. I’m forever grateful for the opportunities and knowledge BD provided for me growth. I met some really brilliant people there too. in the end, the culture was what pushed me away, and the work schedule / style weren’t sustainable for me. Speaking of workplace PUA, I used to think the PUA and public-shaming were just a straightforward no-sugar-coating way, but gradually it took a toll on my mental health, and attacked my self-esteem. It became ultimately negative reinforcement to me. I was really relieved when I quit. A little sad that this is a common experience for many people who worked there. It really shouldn’t be. Props to you for having the courage to speak your truth. :)
I love this video 10x, I 100% believe in hard work and working for a company you feel is both beneficial for you and where you want to be 3 to 5 years or more. How ever I find "managers" or people who are in these power seats thoroughly enjoy having people grovel for growth inside the company. Toxic environments is exactly why the younger generation don't want to work for anyone but themselves because who will appreciate you more than you. Long are the days people take interns under their wing and teach them good skills and help them reach their goals.
Thank you so much posting this, Chloe. I'm sorry that you went through this toxic culture. This job wasn't worth your mental and physical health. Thank you for the courage to post this video to help others who are considering working at TikTok or maybe struggling with their own toxic environments. I hope you're doing well now wherever you've landed!
Leaving your toxic employer is never easy because you tend to doubt yourself whether it's the right decision, causing even more stress. Part of me wonders if the Asian "saving face" culture can play a role in Asia-based companies in making it a toxic environment to work in because everyone's forced to look out for their own reputation. This can cause a clash with cultures that are not centered around self reputation. Time for you to catch up on sleep! Looking forward to hearing what you do next!
I completely agree with the culture clash. That conversation was actually a 45 min long meeting going back and forth between our views on this, which was exhausting. I was really coming from an angle of being curious to understand how this is important in Asian culture, but I wasn’t getting an explanation. It was really “this important because it just is.” Then I asked my parents. It’s honestly pretty hard for me to wrap my head around. I get reputation and brand image from a professional perspective, but not to the extent that I was seeing here.
Thanks for sharing this Chloe! As a mum of 2 myself, hearing about the Culture part and how many hours you were working, it's ridiculous and impossible (and just wrong) to ask that of you or anyone. Sounds like you made the best decision. Remember no job is worth your mental health. All the best in your career path x
I would definitely agree and confirmed with you that it is not a language barrier- people and or superiors from that region are insanely rude, I'm based from Manila and work for people in the region you are referring to, and I experienced the same hardships of getting shamed, questioning my abilities, etc. good thing tho, after leaving the company I worked for, I realize the importance of setting a high standard for my career and with the people I deal with.
I really tried to make it work in terms of the language issues. I know those do exist, and I did all that I could to bridge those gaps. Unfortunately, I think I saw this behavior happen far too consistently :(. I'm sorry to hear that you also went through similar challenges. I'm so glad you left and are onto better things!! Wishing you the best in your next steps!
Good for you Chloe for standing up for what you believe in. I've read so much about the toxic culture at bytedance in Chinese media, (people resign within a month is not rare). You're so awesome, and I'm sure other top tech companies would be lucky and happy to have you.
Hi Amy 👋 ah yeah tenure is pretty low here and onboarding is very challenging to do remote, across time zones, and across cultures. I’m glad you enjoyed this video!! I’m excited for the next chapter as well!
So I am a staffing recruiter and I mainly staff for Manufacturing/Warehouse positions. I will be referencing this video to my applicants. in recent months some of my clients want to do virtual interviews in addition to our interview process, and explaining bouncing around to different warehouses have literally stopped a perfectly good candidate. However, a lot of my applicants do leave companies because of toxic work culture, financial needs being met, or having to put themselves/family first. Majority of who I interview are BIPOC, and have experience toxic work culture which often times are racially charged. The way you explained your toxic work culture experience was *chef's kiss*. We know this is a thing but it can be so hard to explain it especially as a BIPOC. So yeah amazing video, I am a fan lol.
Thank you Cleo for your courage and the well-articulated video. I experienced something similar during a byte dance (tt’s parent company) PM lead interview - red flag even the in interview stage. The hiring manager in BJ asked me a use case question which wasn’t articulated clearly and I had no idea what she wanted me to answer, so I politely asked her to clarify i.e. are you looking for xxx or something else? Then she immediately changed her face to upset face and told me: aren’t you a PM? Why don’t you know what I am asking? Another story with another Chinese company: when the CEO asked my friend to connect her with me, she expressed that she wanted me to be the co-founder/CPO. However after we finished all the discussion about the job scope, timelines and etc, I asked what would be my role and title (I didn’t even talk about $). She got really upset at me and scolded me for not having startup mindset and only caring about the level and boundaries of my work. I know she was trying to PUA me! But I didn’t fall for it ;)
ngl, I had an identical experience with my product manager job in digital bank that I left recently. crappy culture behind closed doors, unreasonable expectations placed on a PM's shoulders to have thought of everything and unclear paths of progress moving up the promotional ladder. It's comforting to know that others are experiencing similar stuff too, thanks for sharing!
I recently left an internship with a company I loved and hearing you talk helped me think about the reasons I left + what hope for in my next job. Thank you so much for sharing your experience!
This was so incredibly insightful - particular your first reason, about progression and unclear growth. Such an important thing to consider - yes a team can be great, but if they aren't transparent about your growth 👀
Hey Chloe, thanks for being so bold to step up & voice out your experience. It's a courageous action to put a limit to things and to prioritize what is truly important to you. Keep goin gurl! Believe that your body & mind will thank you for taking care of them :)
I've been through the exact same things, toxic work culture is so very real. I don't know what kind of people actually thrive in those careers. Oh wait, it's the people that are putting you down, there's someone higher up chewing them out so they take it out on you to "survive" there instead of doing the decent thing. It happens when we're too agreeable and eager to please, and so optimistic we assume the better of people until the moment's passed and we don't feel comfortable bringing it up anymore. We're not equipped handle toxicity because we live in a good mind space, and toxic people can see that and immediately know that we're easy prey so they target us, knowing that they'd be able to walk away with their hands clean with 0 fuss from us. I hope you can be more assertive in your next career. In a perfect world, nobody would need to be assertive to be treated with respect, but what can you do. You're clearly a very nice and thoughtful person, so cheers to your future endeavors!
Miranda! Omg haha yes I totally agree. It’s crazy how the people who thrive are the ones who put people down when they’re being chewed out. It’s a self-perpetuating culture. I honestly am way too “nice” and “helpful” at work and end up doing a lot of unnecessary work that I don’t get credit for. :( it’s tough, but I hope to just grow from it all.
@@chloeshih Haha I'm just like you Chloe! I'm so glad you shared your experience on TH-cam (keep it up btw!), it's so refreshing to see someone else go through this and know that I wasn't the exception! I've "toughened up" since then, but it'll always be hard when your nature is to be kind and think the best of those around you. We can definitely be both assertive and still keep the best parts of ourselves though! :) I look forward to following your journey, you should be so proud of everything you've done! a year at TikTok looks great on the resume either way ;)
@@mirandal.4932 agreed! I really don’t want to compromise on my values and the person I want to show up as, but people do take advantage of it. It’s hard to tell when I should switch modes to protect my boundaries. Rooting for the both of us!
Omg I had never heard of workplace PUA before, it’s wild that there is even a term for this behavior 😢 thank you for sharing your experiences here, Chloe! It is so brave of you and also so importantly for others out there to know that they are not alone and there are other possibilities out there in life!
Same here! Was so wild for me to learn about that! I’m not the expert on it though - just heard it from another colleague who shared a few articles. Wish I never had to make a video about this in the first place :(
As a guy, I never heard of it either. Kind of sleazy! And weird! Who goes to work with that kind of mentality? I just want to do my job and best of my ability!
Chloe, I hope one day you find a team that really opens the doors to the opportunities you deserve, or that you just end up showing companies how it's done with your own company (who knows maybe even via this TH-cam channel!). I was lucky to work with you at Caffeine, you left a really big impression, and I know big things are out there waiting for you. :)
Had a similar experience as well but as a senior product designer. It's good to know that we're all starting to openly talk about how the culture can effect both our career growth and our mental / physical health. For me it got to a point where I have to take medical leave for therapy, and I hope everyone watching this video takes the most important tip here: save yourself before you need serious medical help. It's not worth it. Your relationships with friends and loved ones, your health, your outlook on life is the most important thing. You lose that health mindset, and you will be spending more money recovering over time, than what you're earning on the job. Thanks for being open and starting the conversation here Chloe.
Thank you for sharing this Chloe. I appreciate your voice, intent and optimism. It seems that most of the individuals you dealt with at Bytedance carries similar gaslighting and suppresive traits. I suppose these aren’t a concern during HR screening for a company which I dare to say still defining its values and culture. Am glad you have transcended from this episode and will definitely move on to greater heights. Thank you!
It was unfortunate, but I’m sure the people I’ve worked with are all good, hardworking people. I think it is really the system and the lack of accountability that allows for this type of behavior to happen. Interviews are actually pretty disorganized there D: we had a lot of inconsistencies, but I hope they improve!
This was amazing, Chloe. Super strong & courageous. As you said, “Connection, relationships, mentorship, team building.” These are the foundations of a truly great culture which can sustain companies, communities, and nations for generations. Thank you for doing this! 👍🏻
I found your video based on your Linkedin profile. Thank you for sharing this. I could relate to a lot of those things, especially management who is incompetent and do not know how to communicate well with others. Good luck on your next venture!
Hi Chloe, I remember commenting on your video, Day in a Life as a PM, and I am just so proud of you for taking your stand here and realizing how toxic the environment is. I wish you all the best in your next move and I can't wait to hear more from you soon. Thank you so much for being transparent.
Thank you for sharing these stories publicly. I have worked back to back at a handful of very toxic companies over the last few years, many with similar themes to what you've shared. It made me feel absolutely crazy and gaslit, and it has taken me over a year of therapy to even START to feel somewhat better. Hearing stories like yours helps me feel less crazy, less alone in these struggles. I am very saddened to hear you experienced this, and applaud your bravery at sharing these stories. I hope you find peace and greener pastures.
Came from your LinkedIn post, and this video is fantastic! Reasons are well thought-out, supported, and insightful. Idk if your LinkedIn post can still be edited, but the post came off as "I'm leaving TikTok because of personal health reasons, and I'm a woman in tech". That would've been my impression (and I'm sure the impression of others scrolling across their feed and quickly read through) if I didn't watch this 14-minute video. IMO I would incorporate some of the content inside this video into the post, because these reasons are significant, and would help in getting the right message across (I'm sure this is the point as to why you made this video, and I'm sure your post has probably hundreds of thousands of impressions). just my thoughts
Amazing amount of self reflection.. I truly appreciate authentic content like this that comes from a space of vulnerability. Thank you Chloe and all the best to you :)
Lawwddd Jesus, I am so glad you made the right choice for yourself. You have very clear reasons why. Mad props to you, Chloe. Yay, for looking out for #1, you!
Oof, I admire your ability to overcome those negative experiences and unfair treatment while still taking away the positive parts of it. Thanks for sharing!
Hi Luke 👋 Thank you for your words of support! Appreciate your kind comment. I wanted to keep this positive since there were lots of good moments for me as well. Im glad I grew a lot from this experience. :)
Wow I'm really shocked you posted this but I'm so happy you did. Not enough people do this. I just started talking to a tiktok recruiter and your video is extremely helpful. I had heard gossip about your reason #2 but it's good to hear it from the source.
Thank you for speaking up! I'm in Monetization rn looking to head into Product later, hopefully we can contribute to a healthier environment and push leadership. Best of luck and happiness to you
I'd say I totally felt you Chloe. When I was in last position, I came across the same thing as you even in a US company but had a Chinese manager. He used pua and gaslighting as major management "tips" (actually I could feel zero management skills on him). Since the first day he landed, I was struggling for like three months then I resigned. Take break and give myself a chance to breathe. Although sometimes I still recalled such bad memories, I felt cheered up by your video! Thank you Chloe!
Love this video so much Chloe! So refreshing to hear someone share their work experiences because it really is something that's never discussed and everyone always feel alone when going through these things! Thank you for sharing with us!
Thank you so much for sharing this. This really hit home for me, about the division I used to be a Product Manager for, that I left for good. Once you go through that it's hard to recover and get used to a healthier work environment. Thank you for highlighting all of these. Especially the part about negging / gas-lighting. I had gone through that before but haven't realized how toxic that was till now.
This was so hard to watch because it was triggering. I experienced a lot of paper cuts at a company that is supposed to be a “good culture” and it came to a point that I can no longer stand to be in the industry anymore. Thanks for sharing and normalizing this conversation. Sending you healing vibes ✨
I support you, Chloe. Thank you for sharing. I understand you deeply, you are strong and better things are coming. Grateful for you and your experience!
Thanks for your transparency Chloe . Most of us are afraid to share some of the things we women, particularly Asian women experience in tech. You prob didn’t have this problem, but also Imagine adding age to the equation, being older than the average. Really proud of you for speaking openly. You have many talents, i look forward to seeing your next move! 💕🙏🏼
Sandra!! Thank you so much for your support. I was definitely so so so scared to talk about this. I had been shaking every step of the way, but I’m glad it was well received (for the most part). I’m looking forward to the future as well!
That’s amazing how you could do all of these and have a presence on YT and other platforms, and how you stood up for yourself. Unfortunately in other countries the job market isn’t great, I know people who are stuck in toxic and abusive work culture, especially in tech. Thanks for sharing your stories.
so real, I love it. for the record, I've had female managers and worked with many female colleagues and I have high admiration and respect for women. I have 2 daughters myself, more power to ladies.
A lot of what she's saying is the corporate abuse that is culturally accepted in Asian countries. It isn't acceptable, but it's clearly widespread and hyper toxic. I'm glad she left!
Thanks for sharing this. It took a lot of courage & vulnerability to post this. It shows that the grass isn’t greener on the other side. And gives a great warning to newer people in the work place. Not to mention, what women deal with in the workplace as a whole. Super proud of you and thanks for sharing your experience and being a role model. 💕
Thank you for being so open and putting this together so well! This is incredibly well done and you are doing what's right for you. Excited for your growth and future!
First of all, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SHARING. I’m facing almost the same as you and I was blaming myself for leaving my current job. However, listening you make me stronger to face my decision
This is wild. Thank you so much for sharing Chloe and putting it all out there! Really hard to get true behind the scene experiences and people are so taboo talking about the impact on their mental health.
It really is quite taboo! I always hear it in my private chats or 1:1s with friends, but on our socials, we always post how great it’s been and how excited we are. Hope this helps reveal the harder decisions we make in career!
As a high schooler, I realize I'm not a part of your intended audience. But I see that these videos are going to be of great importance to me as I pursue a career in management. Your advice directly impacts the character traits and skills I'm going to build, especially as a woman, and I have to thank you. Discovered you today and absolutely already oving your videos so far. Keep it up!!
I work for tiktok engineering office in Mountain View. Thank you for making such an informative and an amazing videos, but I’d like to say that I have a very good work life balance. In fact I go to the gym two hours everyday followed by a couple of hours of mandarin class after work. A lot of senior employees have late night CN meetings but overall it’s a very bearable work life balance. I’m not sure, I’m a relatively new employee but I’ve never had employees being rude to me, a lot of colleagues who have meetings with international teams don’t have similar complains either. To conclude, i guess it depends a lot from team to team and profession to profession !
I feel like there are a lot of differences between eastern vs western work culture here, where there is such a clear hierarchy / the most important thing is to be "in power" than team work, which is really interesting!!!
Whoa, I was very close to accepting a job at tiktok. So glad I didn't since I felt a bit uncomfortable with 2 of the interviewers. So glad I didn't leave my current job which I got promoted at. Sometimes, patience pays.
Oh wow! Well, I’ll say that this doesn’t exist on every team. Some people really like their teams and how things are set up. I’m glad you stayed and got a promotion though!!! 🎉🎊
Chloe you articulated this so well! I went through a very similar thing and it is awful to feel your feelings are invalid. Excited for your future and sending you so much love🌞
This is great I'm glad you share your experience Chloé, Everyone needs to find what gives true financial freedom and happiness, if your 9-5 gives you that then keep it! I Just found your channel. you rock 🎉
@@melvinjohnreacher9566 I really enjoy doing my work, and still financially independent having my passive income pay for my lifestyle. I will retire early at 50 so I can travel the world.
Just got rejected for a Product role at TikTok after 5 rounds over the course of almost 2 months…and this video just popped up. Maybe its for the best, thanks for sharing!
Take your skills somewhere else king! ✊🏾
Things happen for a reason. Take it as a blessing in disguise.
You’ll end up where you need to be 🙏 I know that pain, this happened to me recently with my dream job.
I hate tech interviews for this reason exactly
5 rounds? Seriously. I feel like that is so disrespectful for the time of the interviewee. 5 rounds is not necessary to determine if someone is a good candidate, period.
My wife works at TikTok as a Product Manager. And it's 100% what you described.... Personally, I think it's a distorted lifestyle and I'd always said treat this as a landing pad from something greater and better. Well done to you Chloe for mustering up the courage to quit! I also like your direct style in performance meetings - that is 100% the way to do it.
Hi Chloe! I'm also a product manager at TikTok and I 100% relate. The work culture is very toxic (esp. in China offices), people would compete who stayed the latest at work and blamed people who left at 8pm (which is already pretty late for me). PUA culture is also very true and it keeps making myself questioning whether I'm a capable PM. I do not get recognized for the hard work I've done, the leadership encouraged taking over other people's scope in order to get a promotion, co-workers backstabbing everyone... unfortunately I've experienced all of this and it's been making me really sad and wanting to quit :( I really appreciate you sharing this and just wanted to say that you made the right choice and I'm accumulating my courage to make the decision too !
It's true. The word toxic accurately describes the current vibe here in TikTok.
It's still a good company with an abundance of talents and kind people that I do not regret working with. it's still a good company if you want to do exciting projects or try crazy thoughts, as long as you don't expect to climb the corporate ladder with certain fairness. Otherwise, choose teams cautiously. Hope for the best for all bytedancer!
I promise no one there is handling that culture "just fine." Everyone is burnt out and upset about it. Some people are just better at hiding it. Remind yourself of that when you feel like you failed because you didn't stay longer.
Hi Blue! Thank you for your support! I did get a lot of messages after posting this video that they’re going through extremely similar things and it was great to feel seen here. We really don’t talk about this in enough specificity to be actionable. :(
No company is worth giving up 16 hours a day for, especially since you're not an owner of the company.
Right? That's insane! I work 30-40 hrs a week & can barely keep up...
exactly
As a career manager of 20+ years, my biggest trigger was a lack of clearly defined goals for leveling. Completely unacceptable in 2021. That would be the first in warning sign to leave ANY company. Not even for leveling but for anything. As seen in your example this leaves too much room for... "opinions. Which never works and leaves room for discrimination, nepotism, favoritism and many other isms. Imagine if the board of directors measured the top brass in the same way... in fact... actually nevermind.
Thank you very much for this post. Well done and well said. This needs to be done more often!
20 years! Super seasoned!! Thank you for validating this experience as well. A lot of senior execs tell us that “we’re on a rocket ship. We won’t have all the processes figured out, but we’re working on it. You should just be focused on making big impact”. These all sounds “fine” at first, but in the end, leveling and concrete career development are pushed aside, which then leads to all the things you mentioned. It is a yellow flag that turns in a red one real fast!
This comment is so valuable and it took me so long to figure it out. Ask the company or hiring manager how he defines success (and bonus points if it is a number). If he can't give you a straight answer, he probably hasn't thought about it. This is a red flag! You don't want to extend the pain of working in the wrong environment because you failed to ask these questions when you got hired.
what does leveling mean
to whomever is reading this, wishing you the best possible day/night -- remember, what we think, we become!
I’m interviewing for Tiktok right now and culture is sooo important to me. Thanks for giving a heads up on what it might be like there.
Glad you’re getting extra signals! I do want to say that not every team will have this experience. Honestly, I really wish I could have stayed. There were plenty of other teams that recruited me and I think their situations were pretty great. I just didn’t see a full fit for my career focus, team culture, and leadership opportunities all in one. Make sure you do your due diligence with the direct teams you’re interested in!
It certainly made me think thrice about considering a career at Tik Tok in future
Culture has been underestimated in the sense that it drives people and things.
to whomever is reading this, wishing you the best possible day/night -- remember, what we think, we become!
This is a great video, Chloe. We all can tell this has not been an easy decision for you, but seriously GOOD FOR YOU to put yourself first and walk away from a situation that was no longer serving you and respecting your boundaries. A lot of good will come out of this, and the fact that you are so candidly paying it forward on YT will also bring you many good things that you can’t even predict yet. Wishing you all best, and thanks for sharing this experience.
Hi Nelson 👋 Ahh yes it was pretty hard. I went back and forth a lot while filming, editing, and almost uploading. Im glad you found it helpful!! That’s all I was hoping for. :)
One thing I have learned in my entire career life, being too outspoken doesn’t brings you anywhere but actually created the air of intimidation especially to your superior.
I was so triggered the entire time. I've experienced all of this before in a toxic company and I'm proud of you for leaving!
Ahhh I should have provided a trigger warning. I’m sorry to hear that you experienced this too. It really should not be this common!! :( thank you for your words of support, DivineFeelings!
to whomever is reading this, wishing you the best possible day/night -- remember, what we think, we become!
sooo.. I'm back to this video, after I just left Tiktok. I was here 2 years ago starting my career at Tiktok, I didn't know its gonna be 2 years. Now that I come back to re-watch this, I resonate almost every single point.. and I'm still contemplating if I should make a video about my experience there
I can totally relate from working at another company. What I’ve learned is a job is just a job, and you should always be prepared to leave. Also, while feedback is good and helps you grow, there can be so many awful people who just give bad feedback and with bad intentions, so just take it as a grain of salt and always always always know your worth! Find a place where they value you. I’m happy to say I’m working at a much better place and getting paid more. I had to think through and deal with some of the trauma I had from my old work. It’s not easy but I believe it made me stronger and more resilient. There are bullies in the workplace and they are actively trying to push people down just for the sake to make themselves look better and/or they really want to hurt someone they deem as a threat. They know how to play the system and be buddies with the right people. They will not hold back because in their mind it’s you or them. Every company has these kinds of people but when the company and its culture encourages and is apathetic to these types of people and their behavior, it’s a huge sign this place is toxic.
Thank you for sharing publicly about this, Chloe. I'm frankly shocked about some of the feedback managers shared with you, terrible! I'm glad you found the courage to pick up your stuff and leave, to pursue a life that's more aligned with your values. I also appreciate that this is not a 'kicking back' video, but that you shared your personal experience and also noticed the good/interesting things that happen there.
Toxic environments still exists, And while I've experience a good bit of them, I've never experienced what you did so directly like that. You're such a strong woman Chloe! I'm glad you took action and at the same treated it as a learning experience and improved from it. (I keep adding something more to say, but keep removing it cause, well it's mean. Let's just say I'm super aggravated that you had to experience this kind of treatment. I probably would not have taken it so well.) I'm proud of you Chloe!
Hi Kevin! Ah I know. Unfortunately, my time here wasn’t the worst that I’ve experienced in my career. In an unfortunate way, my previous toxic workplaces built up a lot of my skin so I was pretty prepared coming here. I really don’t think it should be the norm for people to experience this, and I hope employers set up accountability to encourage treating people right all over the industry
to whomever is reading this, wishing you the best possible day/night -- remember, what we think, we become!
Good for you Chloe! No amount of money or high status position justifies ruining your mental and physical health! I think you are a very bright inspiring person and I look up to you! Cheers Martin
Agreed! But honestly I’m still struggling with that. It’s definitely easy to say but hard for me to judge when the hard work weeks come. :( hope I can keep growing to develop healthier habits and boundaries! Thank you for dropping a comment.
this happens so often at companies that use 'entrepreneurial spirit' as a cop-out for unstructured development and disjointed support
I know! It’s a total cop-out. They’re like “we’re on a rocket ship and we have 10x growth which means we won’t have all the processes in place”. Which honestly is fine in principle, but it turns out to be an excuse to never think about how to make sure there’s equity and fairness for talent to develop
They’ll be like « comfortable working in an ambiguous environment! » 🙄
It's not easy to speak up for a topic like this. I agree health should be the first priority. Thank you so much for sharing, Chloe!
Ah it took so much going back and forth for me to finally decide. I was even scared wild filming and while editing. I’m glad the message got through. Thank you for your support, Alice!
I am so sorry to hear what you have gone thru and happy at the same time as you have decided to move on. You will do great in other places. I truly understand the importance of mental peace while working as a PM and it should be non-negotiable.
Hi Sam 👋 thank you for your words of support. Mental peace does so much for us. Will always cherish that!
This is the first video I ever watched from you, but you're incredibly brave for posting this. I feel like more and more people, especially women, are opening up on their workplace experiences. I find this really important that we can finally start talking openly about our workplace experiences, good or bad, since the workforce is usually forced to remain quiet out of fear for retaliation. Especially women. You're doing yourself and a lot of people a huge service by sharing this. So thank you. I can only imagine how much consideration this must have taken to post this.
You explained everything I went through in my last position. When I tried reaching out to HR they came back and called me a liar which is when I knew enough was enough. It's unfortunate that this happens way more than it should, especially for females in the tech field. Good for you for getting out and talking about it!
Ally!! Omg this happens just way too often. I’m constantly shocked at how HR at companies tend to react when there are sticky situations at work. More often than not, the person at the “lower rank” gets booted out even when the senior manager is the person at fault. :( calling you a liar is so out of pocket. I’m glad you’re out of there too!!
@@chloeshih When the overall working environment is bad in a company, don’t expect how good the HR team can be, they partially represent the working culture already. Some signs can be found even during the first round interview with them.
My goodness, coming across this video today is a blessing. Ive just been thrashed of hike, let alone a promotion after slogging a whole year! Thankyou for being honest and open about it.
What I learned from this clip is that we need to set clear boundaries and identify our non-negotiatabels. This will be the foundation of any decision we make throughout our careers.
This is so valuable! Thank you so much for sharing ❤️
Whoa so cool of you to share this! You sound like an exceptional leader!!
Ah thank you for the kind words! I'm def just trying to share some of my honest thoughts in this process. Appreciate your support on this!
So insightful! I'm glad you're teaching others about this. It takes a lot to change the culture of a company and industry.
I think it may be the case where it's a function of insisting on an 80s working culture in today's environment. True it now will take a lot to change, but that needed not have happened in the first place.
Thank you @Stella!! You’ve seen me through the years struggling at different companies haha. It’s been a long time coming and I hope to share more of these battles publicly to bring more awareness to how people treat each other when there’s no accountability.
A lot of this is more to do with Chinese working culture bleeding over to overseas entities as well.
Most American tech companies are notoriously lax in their work culture (e.g. LinkedIn).
to whomever is reading this, wishing you the best possible day/night -- remember, what we think, we become!
Thank you for speaking out and for giving ex employees like myself a voice to speak the truth in such a graceful way ❤️
Thank you so much for sharing your story! It’s so helpful to hear things like this so that other people know it’s okay to walk away from an environment that just isn’t suiting their needs. Hope you find a great new opportunity that empowers you and gives you some work life balance!
Hi Alisa!! Wow - another PM!! :D And yes, learning to walk away isn't an easy thing, but I'm glad I've been able to exercise that muscle this time around.
I’m sorry you had to go through that. The Great Resignation has demonstrated that employees won’t stand for this kind of toxic culture anymore. Hope your next journey is more fulfilling and is a better fit career wise and in alignment with your personal goals.
Chloe! Thank you so much for putting this video out - I know it wasn't easy but it is incredibly insightful. I interviewed for TikTok this year and was extremely hesitant with going through due to the reasons you listed, which I kinda gauged from Glassdoor. As a woman of colour - psychological safety, career growth, internal sponsorship, and work-life balance is CRITICAL. TikTok is a fast-growing startup company but if it doesn't have the internal infrastructure to create a good team environment, then that's a full-stop. Success is not a success if it is at the expense of our mental health and growth. I am super glad you are putting yourself first and know your worth.
Hi Halla! Also check Blind too! I feel lots of reviews are moving there nowadays. I’m glad you were able to get the right signals for your decision. My psychological safety was truly impacted. :( Im definitely looking out for these signals for myself too!
@@chloeshih LOL I actually found your video from blind! You've come full circle girlie 👏👏
So happy to hear from you on this topic. I have faced few of those and yes, life is so short to take any form of negativity. Found out tests should really be carried out by employees on companies they would work for, regardless of their assumed workplace culture. The words in the book "You don't have to be mad to work here..." still ring bells in my head when I evaluate companies I would want to work with.
Totally agree. I had to have very honest conversations with my friends and therapist that I can also choose not to work at a place that brings me negativity. Life's too short to deal with these kinds of places!
Wow great video Chloe and sorry you had to go through this experience! I worked in China for 10 years and everything you said resonated with me a lot. The work culture there is very toxic and not cooperative, which is in stark contrast with expectations here. Especially the "you need to think deeper" comments. No one can think of everything. Yet in China PMs are expected to be the sole source of truth, so success of projects rests on the shoulders of one person and that person has to save face at all costs (defend against attackers). It's definitely not a language barrier. Those in China have the same issues.
When I moved back to the US working for a Chinese company I had the exact same work/life balance issues, sleep disorders, etc. It took a long time to recover.
I'm glad you are doing better!
Hey Chloe, thanks for speaking up about this. I experienced this myself working in a SEA office 2 years ago. I thought that maybe things might have changed since then but your video shows otherwise. Honestly, you really need to be in tune with their way of doing things if you want to climb in the company. Glad you’re moving onto a place that really appreciates you! All the best in your future endeavours!
I'm so, so glad you shared your experience, Chloe!!! I don't think I could ever be as articulate as you, and I hope you know that a lot of folks are going to feel so validated hearing your story. I'm wishing you all the best in finding a workplace that gives you what you're looking for
Hi Pam!! Thank you for your words of support! I wish I could’ve shared more details. There were so many WOC stories that happened to my friends that I wanted to bring to light. There were also so many tense microaggression moments that are so nuanced to talk about in a 15 min video :(. I just wish that being a WOC doesn’t hold people back in their careers soon. Wishing you the best in your career as well!! 🥰
to whomever is reading this, wishing you the best possible day/night -- remember, what we think, we become!
Speaking from further down the line Chloe, you've absolutely made the right decision. I resigned from the UN late last year, after many of the issues you've experienced affected me also. So much so, it was not only affecting my own health, but my family's directly too. I had missed my daughters first year entirely due to 70+hr working weeks and with my Chief of Mission's callous and sociopathic leadership style, I couldn't give any more of myself to facilitate her journey to the top. It's been the best decision I've ever made. However, with similar negging and gaslighting behaviours from my CoM, prepare yourself for bouts of self-doubt, esteem rebuilding and a feeling of loss or grief. They will pass, of course. But, if I could give you any one piece of advice it's this... be kind to yourself, be proud and reassured that you were in the role for a reason and particularly give yourself enough time to step into a new role again. Don't rush. Just breathe.
Hi Eoghanaldo 👋 I’m sorry to hear about your insanely rough experiences at the UN. :( you would think such a reputable place would have accountability for this, but the reality doesn’t reflect that. I’m honestly so worried about this trend in the workplace to dedicate so many waking hours to “emergencies” at work especially when I will have children. I definitely don’t ever want to miss special events for my family in the future and am building the muscles to keep healthy boundaries now.
Thank you for your kind messages and words of wisdom!
I’ve heard UN is highly political and toxic. Such an irony because they stand for human rights. 🤦🏻♀️
@@chloeshih Being honest Chloe, it was rough indeed, but I'm a white European male and know it could've been so much worse if I had been of other demographics. I've heard of, and seen, people at a variety of other locations and of other ethnicities, gender and cultural backgrounds loaded with far more additional behaviours linked to those factors.
That being said, I share your thoughts in having to highlight that the misbehaviour I experienced is often displayed at senior leadership levels. These are levels where a corporate race attitude purveys. It's 1%. I couldn't and cannot say anything to the detriment of the hundreds of thousands of general and lower professional staff within the UN who sacrifice so much daily. They're the ones really who keep the ship steered the right way 🙂.
I think it's interesting though the contrast, or lack thereof, between agile and modern leadership often highlighted within tech and the hierarchical archaic version seen in older institutions. Often, they come full circle to the classic, kill or be killed carnivore leader who is threatened by collaboration and resistent of supporting others along their journey. It's a certain human nature for some to abuse their way to seniority.
Thank you for shining a light on an industry that often goes under the radar when it comes to employee welfare. Wishing you all the very best in your next steps Chloe! Enjoy this time 🙂
You have no idea how much your post resonated with me! Thank you for sharing your experience and advice.
to whomever is reading this, wishing you the best possible day/night -- remember, what we think, we become!
I recognized some of the burnout and unhappiness sprinkled throughout your videos. I have been in a similar situation and I'm SO happy for you. Those hours are unsustainable.
Haha I know! I definitely wanted to keep things more authentic on the vlogs. It really was not a sustainable schedule. Thank you for your continued support, KT!
Hi Chloe, thank you so much for sharing your story. This is 100% relatable for me right now, as I have gone through something very similar recently. I am sorry that you went through all of this, but on another end, I feel comforted to hear learnings and thoughts from a person that had a similar experience. This was a great and professional way of sharing your experience. Wishing the best for you in your current journey as an entrepreneur! P.S. Jomo is my weekly go to podcast 💙
Chloe Shih's space is incredible! Her tech and product management videos are a game-changer for me. I've learned so much and feel inspired to pursue a career in these fields. Thank you, Chloe, for sharing your expertise and making it accessible to aspiring professionals like me!
Thanks for articulating the various issues which "leaders" or "maangement" always try to make it seem an non-issue, probably because it's due to themselves not having any incentive to deal with it. You take care and I think you are really a amazing individual, clearly intelligent and a go-getter who dare to share what you want. You are my new role model.
Hey Chloe! As a fellow girl working in Tech over in Sydney (and small TH-camr), thank you for sharing your experience with everyone!
Work culture is SO important and I'm so sorry to hear you had to experience that. I'm glad you took the steps and I'm excited to hear about the next steps of your career :)
Hi Vivian! Ah yesss! Another woc in tech!! Great to chat with you. It was a tough experience but I’m excited for the next step!
to whomever is reading this, wishing you the best possible day/night -- remember, what we think, we become!
Thanks Chloe for coming out and sharing this story. I could 100% relate to you, as someone who used to work in a tech company with similar leadership and culture as TikTok (I shall not name it - it’s a public listed company in the US market and one of the very first unicorns in SEA). I totally agree that health took a big toll on me, not just physical but also mental health, and was one of the main reasons for my resignation. It took me a year to realize and had the courage to quit, despite the fact that I had to take a pay cut in the next company. But I felt so much relieved and I never regretted it. As your friend said, health cannot be traded for anything.
Having said that, it doesn’t mean the company is totally bad. On a bright side, I have met so many great colleagues who still remain friends until today and I’ve learned sooo much in such a short period of time. It’s just that this culture is not for everyone, and we all have different priorities in our career.
Ah I’m sorry to hear you went through this before :( I wish this weren’t so common. Health really cannot be traded. I gotta challenge myself to put health first in my next step.
oof sounds like a tough environment and glad you got out of it. i've worked in banking and while i didn't go through the same struggles as you, definitely know what toxic co-workers and a no-sleep work culture is like. this was a very insightful video looking into the cultures of one of the most successful companies of all time - thank you for sharing and wish you all the best with your next opportunity!
Omg banking sounds so scary to me based on what I’ve heard. I joined tech because I thought the culture would be nicer.
Thank you for your words of support! I hope to continue to share!
Girl! The way that I can relate to every thing you are saying! You explained this so well and very respectfully. I’m proud of you for taking that leap and thank you for the courage to admit that things were not working out. It sounds so difficult to go through what you dealt with. I hope your health continues to improve more. I recently left my last employer for just about the same reasons and also has issues sleeping.
Chloe,
I'm so glad you posted this. It is so hard to know what is a toxic work culture when you are living it. Your outline helps us all recognize the signs. So many of those examples were truly unbelievable to hear. I am glad you made the decision that was right for you.
I can't wait to see what's in store for your future. I look forward to more updates/videos!
Hi Roy! I’m glad you found this video helpful! Seeing the signs made it so much easier for me when I realized what was happening. I’m glad this information helps others see the patterns to help make the right decisions in their lives! I definitely plan on sharing more about my journey on this channel ~
to whomever is reading this, wishing you the best possible day/night -- remember, what we think, we become!
Thank you for the transparency on this! It takes a lot of courage to share about these topics, my fear has been the backlash of potential new employers. But when I shared my video on being fired from a toxic job, it was scary yet therapeutic.
Finally. Someone who speaks up on the importance of promotion route esp. for someone who works hard and have the results to prove for. Phew. They would always talk about "doing the work first, we will promote when we figure it out" and that is really a huge red flag in work place. Finally.
I felt so much from watching this and hearing you speak your truth Chloe. I've been thru this before. Except i didn't know how to express it. People didn't believe me when I tried to explain it. Proud of you for sharing and esp documenting the incidents.
It took me a while to write this 😭😭 there was so much I initially wrote but trimmed out a lot and kept things vague in fear of retaliation or idk anything really. I’m sorry to hear that you went through something similar too. Hope you’re in a much better place!
It’s so unfortunate that this happens to far too many people in so many tech companies, moving goal posts when it comes to promos, managers putting pressure on their reports to “prove” to them that they deserve to be promoted when it’s literally their job to manage to your success… backstabbing between a colleagues, list go on for ages. Good for you for drawing a line in the sand and getting out of there. Hope your next role is more rewarding professionally and interpersonally.
I was there for less than a year and our experiences align. I don’t work in product, but ~80% of what you articulated here, I echo. I’m forever grateful for the opportunities and knowledge BD provided for me growth. I met some really brilliant people there too. in the end, the culture was what pushed me away, and the work schedule / style weren’t sustainable for me.
Speaking of workplace PUA, I used to think the PUA and public-shaming were just a straightforward no-sugar-coating way, but gradually it took a toll on my mental health, and attacked my self-esteem. It became ultimately negative reinforcement to me. I was really relieved when I quit. A little sad that this is a common experience for many people who worked there. It really shouldn’t be. Props to you for having the courage to speak your truth. :)
I love this video 10x, I 100% believe in hard work and working for a company you feel is both beneficial for you and where you want to be 3 to 5 years or more. How ever I find "managers" or people who are in these power seats thoroughly enjoy having people grovel for growth inside the company. Toxic environments is exactly why the younger generation don't want to work for anyone but themselves because who will appreciate you more than you. Long are the days people take interns under their wing and teach them good skills and help them reach their goals.
Agreed. :( it’s quite rare to come by a manager who truly supports their teams and uplifts them! Hope work culture changes for the better!
Thank you so much posting this, Chloe. I'm sorry that you went through this toxic culture. This job wasn't worth your mental and physical health. Thank you for the courage to post this video to help others who are considering working at TikTok or maybe struggling with their own toxic environments. I hope you're doing well now wherever you've landed!
Leaving your toxic employer is never easy because you tend to doubt yourself whether it's the right decision, causing even more stress. Part of me wonders if the Asian "saving face" culture can play a role in Asia-based companies in making it a toxic environment to work in because everyone's forced to look out for their own reputation. This can cause a clash with cultures that are not centered around self reputation. Time for you to catch up on sleep! Looking forward to hearing what you do next!
I completely agree with the culture clash. That conversation was actually a 45 min long meeting going back and forth between our views on this, which was exhausting. I was really coming from an angle of being curious to understand how this is important in Asian culture, but I wasn’t getting an explanation. It was really “this important because it just is.” Then I asked my parents. It’s honestly pretty hard for me to wrap my head around. I get reputation and brand image from a professional perspective, but not to the extent that I was seeing here.
Thanks for sharing this Chloe! As a mum of 2 myself, hearing about the Culture part and how many hours you were working, it's ridiculous and impossible (and just wrong) to ask that of you or anyone. Sounds like you made the best decision. Remember no job is worth your mental health. All the best in your career path x
I would definitely agree and confirmed with you that it is not a language barrier- people and or superiors from that region are insanely rude, I'm based from Manila and work for people in the region you are referring to, and I experienced the same hardships of getting shamed, questioning my abilities, etc. good thing tho, after leaving the company I worked for, I realize the importance of setting a high standard for my career and with the people I deal with.
I really tried to make it work in terms of the language issues. I know those do exist, and I did all that I could to bridge those gaps. Unfortunately, I think I saw this behavior happen far too consistently :(. I'm sorry to hear that you also went through similar challenges. I'm so glad you left and are onto better things!! Wishing you the best in your next steps!
It takes a lot of courage to speak about these issues openly, big kudos!
Hi JJ!! 👋 It really is. :( thank you for the kudos!
Good for you Chloe for standing up for what you believe in. I've read so much about the toxic culture at bytedance in Chinese media, (people resign within a month is not rare). You're so awesome, and I'm sure other top tech companies would be lucky and happy to have you.
Hi Amy 👋 ah yeah tenure is pretty low here and onboarding is very challenging to do remote, across time zones, and across cultures. I’m glad you enjoyed this video!! I’m excited for the next chapter as well!
So I am a staffing recruiter and I mainly staff for Manufacturing/Warehouse positions. I will be referencing this video to my applicants. in recent months some of my clients want to do virtual interviews in addition to our interview process, and explaining bouncing around to different warehouses have literally stopped a perfectly good candidate. However, a lot of my applicants do leave companies because of toxic work culture, financial needs being met, or having to put themselves/family first. Majority of who I interview are BIPOC, and have experience toxic work culture which often times are racially charged. The way you explained your toxic work culture experience was *chef's kiss*. We know this is a thing but it can be so hard to explain it especially as a BIPOC. So yeah amazing video, I am a fan lol.
Thank you Cleo for your courage and the well-articulated video. I experienced something similar during a byte dance (tt’s parent company) PM lead interview - red flag even the in interview stage. The hiring manager in BJ asked me a use case question which wasn’t articulated clearly and I had no idea what she wanted me to answer, so I politely asked her to clarify i.e. are you looking for xxx or something else? Then she immediately changed her face to upset face and told me: aren’t you a PM? Why don’t you know what I am asking? Another story with another Chinese company: when the CEO asked my friend to connect her with me, she expressed that she wanted me to be the co-founder/CPO. However after we finished all the discussion about the job scope, timelines and etc, I asked what would be my role and title (I didn’t even talk about $). She got really upset at me and scolded me for not having startup mindset and only caring about the level and boundaries of my work. I know she was trying to PUA me! But I didn’t fall for it ;)
ngl, I had an identical experience with my product manager job in digital bank that I left recently. crappy culture behind closed doors, unreasonable expectations placed on a PM's shoulders to have thought of everything and unclear paths of progress moving up the promotional ladder. It's comforting to know that others are experiencing similar stuff too, thanks for sharing!
I recently left an internship with a company I loved and hearing you talk helped me think about the reasons I left + what hope for in my next job. Thank you so much for sharing your experience!
This was so incredibly insightful - particular your first reason, about progression and unclear growth. Such an important thing to consider - yes a team can be great, but if they aren't transparent about your growth 👀
Unclear growth is such a trap!! :( such a red flag because they don’t ever prioritize it.
Cannot imagine my wife or daughter working in a place like this. You are an amazing PM!
No one should! D: life is way too short!! Thank you for the words of support!!
Hey Chloe, thanks for being so bold to step up & voice out your experience. It's a courageous action to put a limit to things and to prioritize what is truly important to you. Keep goin gurl! Believe that your body & mind will thank you for taking care of them :)
Hi Jie! 👋 Ah yes it very much is. I’m still very not good at it haha, but that’s my next big growth focus. Thank you for your support!!
to whomever is reading this, wishing you the best possible day/night -- remember, what we think, we become!
I've been through the exact same things, toxic work culture is so very real. I don't know what kind of people actually thrive in those careers. Oh wait, it's the people that are putting you down, there's someone higher up chewing them out so they take it out on you to "survive" there instead of doing the decent thing.
It happens when we're too agreeable and eager to please, and so optimistic we assume the better of people until the moment's passed and we don't feel comfortable bringing it up anymore. We're not equipped handle toxicity because we live in a good mind space, and toxic people can see that and immediately know that we're easy prey so they target us, knowing that they'd be able to walk away with their hands clean with 0 fuss from us. I hope you can be more assertive in your next career. In a perfect world, nobody would need to be assertive to be treated with respect, but what can you do. You're clearly a very nice and thoughtful person, so cheers to your future endeavors!
Miranda! Omg haha yes I totally agree. It’s crazy how the people who thrive are the ones who put people down when they’re being chewed out. It’s a self-perpetuating culture.
I honestly am way too “nice” and “helpful” at work and end up doing a lot of unnecessary work that I don’t get credit for. :( it’s tough, but I hope to just grow from it all.
@@chloeshih Haha I'm just like you Chloe! I'm so glad you shared your experience on TH-cam (keep it up btw!), it's so refreshing to see someone else go through this and know that I wasn't the exception! I've "toughened up" since then, but it'll always be hard when your nature is to be kind and think the best of those around you. We can definitely be both assertive and still keep the best parts of ourselves though! :) I look forward to following your journey, you should be so proud of everything you've done! a year at TikTok looks great on the resume either way ;)
@@mirandal.4932 agreed! I really don’t want to compromise on my values and the person I want to show up as, but people do take advantage of it. It’s hard to tell when I should switch modes to protect my boundaries. Rooting for the both of us!
Omg I had never heard of workplace PUA before, it’s wild that there is even a term for this behavior 😢 thank you for sharing your experiences here, Chloe! It is so brave of you and also so importantly for others out there to know that they are not alone and there are other possibilities out there in life!
Same here! Was so wild for me to learn about that! I’m not the expert on it though - just heard it from another colleague who shared a few articles. Wish I never had to make a video about this in the first place :(
As a guy, I never heard of it either. Kind of sleazy! And weird! Who goes to work with that kind of mentality? I just want to do my job and best of my ability!
to whomever is reading this, wishing you the best possible day/night -- remember, what we think, we become!
Chloe, I hope one day you find a team that really opens the doors to the opportunities you deserve, or that you just end up showing companies how it's done with your own company (who knows maybe even via this TH-cam channel!). I was lucky to work with you at Caffeine, you left a really big impression, and I know big things are out there waiting for you. :)
OMG OHM!!!
Had a similar experience as well but as a senior product designer. It's good to know that we're all starting to openly talk about how the culture can effect both our career growth and our mental / physical health. For me it got to a point where I have to take medical leave for therapy, and I hope everyone watching this video takes the most important tip here: save yourself before you need serious medical help. It's not worth it. Your relationships with friends and loved ones, your health, your outlook on life is the most important thing. You lose that health mindset, and you will be spending more money recovering over time, than what you're earning on the job. Thanks for being open and starting the conversation here Chloe.
Thank you for sharing this Chloe. I appreciate your voice, intent and optimism. It seems that most of the individuals you dealt with at Bytedance carries similar gaslighting and suppresive traits. I suppose these aren’t a concern during HR screening for a company which I dare to say still defining its values and culture. Am glad you have transcended from this episode and will definitely move on to greater heights. Thank you!
It was unfortunate, but I’m sure the people I’ve worked with are all good, hardworking people. I think it is really the system and the lack of accountability that allows for this type of behavior to happen. Interviews are actually pretty disorganized there D: we had a lot of inconsistencies, but I hope they improve!
can't thank you enough for putting this out. Went through so much of this same shit. "Not every hill is worth dying on". you got me.
This was amazing, Chloe. Super strong & courageous. As you said, “Connection, relationships, mentorship, team building.” These are the foundations of a truly great culture which can sustain companies, communities, and nations for generations. Thank you for doing this! 👍🏻
I found your video based on your Linkedin profile. Thank you for sharing this. I could relate to a lot of those things, especially management who is incompetent and do not know how to communicate well with others. Good luck on your next venture!
Hi Chloe, I remember commenting on your video, Day in a Life as a PM, and I am just so proud of you for taking your stand here and realizing how toxic the environment is. I wish you all the best in your next move and I can't wait to hear more from you soon. Thank you so much for being transparent.
Haha yes I’m sure some people can tell it was not a sustainable schedule. Thank you for your continued support!
to whomever is reading this, wishing you the best possible day/night -- remember, what we think, we become!
Thank you for sharing these stories publicly. I have worked back to back at a handful of very toxic companies over the last few years, many with similar themes to what you've shared. It made me feel absolutely crazy and gaslit, and it has taken me over a year of therapy to even START to feel somewhat better. Hearing stories like yours helps me feel less crazy, less alone in these struggles.
I am very saddened to hear you experienced this, and applaud your bravery at sharing these stories. I hope you find peace and greener pastures.
Came from your LinkedIn post, and this video is fantastic! Reasons are well thought-out, supported, and insightful. Idk if your LinkedIn post can still be edited, but the post came off as "I'm leaving TikTok because of personal health reasons, and I'm a woman in tech". That would've been my impression (and I'm sure the impression of others scrolling across their feed and quickly read through) if I didn't watch this 14-minute video. IMO I would incorporate some of the content inside this video into the post, because these reasons are significant, and would help in getting the right message across (I'm sure this is the point as to why you made this video, and I'm sure your post has probably hundreds of thousands of impressions). just my thoughts
Thank you for being vulnerable and share this publicly.
Amazing amount of self reflection.. I truly appreciate authentic content like this that comes from a space of vulnerability. Thank you Chloe and all the best to you :)
Lawwddd Jesus, I am so glad you made the right choice for yourself. You have very clear reasons why. Mad props to you, Chloe. Yay, for looking out for #1, you!
Oof, I admire your ability to overcome those negative experiences and unfair treatment while still taking away the positive parts of it. Thanks for sharing!
Hi Luke 👋 Thank you for your words of support! Appreciate your kind comment. I wanted to keep this positive since there were lots of good moments for me as well. Im glad I grew a lot from this experience. :)
to whomever is reading this, wishing you the best possible day/night -- remember, what we think, we become!
Wow I'm really shocked you posted this but I'm so happy you did. Not enough people do this. I just started talking to a tiktok recruiter and your video is extremely helpful. I had heard gossip about your reason #2 but it's good to hear it from the source.
Thank you for speaking up! I'm in Monetization rn looking to head into Product later, hopefully we can contribute to a healthier environment and push leadership. Best of luck and happiness to you
I'd say I totally felt you Chloe. When I was in last position, I came across the same thing as you even in a US company but had a Chinese manager. He used pua and gaslighting as major management "tips" (actually I could feel zero management skills on him). Since the first day he landed, I was struggling for like three months then I resigned. Take break and give myself a chance to breathe. Although sometimes I still recalled such bad memories, I felt cheered up by your video! Thank you Chloe!
What is pua?
Love this video so much Chloe! So refreshing to hear someone share their work experiences because it really is something that's never discussed and everyone always feel alone when going through these things! Thank you for sharing with us!
Thank you so much for sharing this. This really hit home for me, about the division I used to be a Product Manager for, that I left for good. Once you go through that it's hard to recover and get used to a healthier work environment. Thank you for highlighting all of these. Especially the part about negging / gas-lighting. I had gone through that before but haven't realized how toxic that was till now.
This was so hard to watch because it was triggering. I experienced a lot of paper cuts at a company that is supposed to be a “good culture” and it came to a point that I can no longer stand to be in the industry anymore. Thanks for sharing and normalizing this conversation. Sending you healing vibes ✨
I support you, Chloe. Thank you for sharing. I understand you deeply, you are strong and better things are coming. Grateful for you and your experience!
Thanks for your transparency Chloe . Most of us are afraid to share some of the things we women, particularly Asian women experience in tech. You prob didn’t have this problem, but also Imagine adding age to the equation, being older than the average. Really proud of you for speaking openly. You have many talents, i look forward to seeing your next move! 💕🙏🏼
Sandra!! Thank you so much for your support. I was definitely so so so scared to talk about this. I had been shaking every step of the way, but I’m glad it was well received (for the most part). I’m looking forward to the future as well!
That’s amazing how you could do all of these and have a presence on YT and other platforms, and how you stood up for yourself. Unfortunately in other countries the job market isn’t great, I know people who are stuck in toxic and abusive work culture, especially in tech. Thanks for sharing your stories.
Appreciate your courage and transparency, Chloe!
Thank you for sharing your support, Evelyn!!
so real, I love it. for the record, I've had female managers and worked with many female colleagues and I have high admiration and respect for women. I have 2 daughters myself, more power to ladies.
A lot of what she's saying is the corporate abuse that is culturally accepted in Asian countries. It isn't acceptable, but it's clearly widespread and hyper toxic. I'm glad she left!
Thanks for sharing this. It took a lot of courage & vulnerability to post this. It shows that the grass isn’t greener on the other side. And gives a great warning to newer people in the work place. Not to mention, what women deal with in the workplace as a whole. Super proud of you and thanks for sharing your experience and being a role model. 💕
Thank you for being so open and putting this together so well! This is incredibly well done and you are doing what's right for you. Excited for your growth and future!
Felix!! Thank you for continued support. Excited for the next step as well!
to whomever is reading this, wishing you the best possible day/night -- remember, what we think, we become!
First of all, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SHARING. I’m facing almost the same as you and I was blaming myself for leaving my current job. However, listening you make me stronger to face my decision
This is wild. Thank you so much for sharing Chloe and putting it all out there! Really hard to get true behind the scene experiences and people are so taboo talking about the impact on their mental health.
It really is quite taboo! I always hear it in my private chats or 1:1s with friends, but on our socials, we always post how great it’s been and how excited we are. Hope this helps reveal the harder decisions we make in career!
to whomever is reading this, wishing you the best possible day/night -- remember, what we think, we become!
As a high schooler, I realize I'm not a part of your intended audience. But I see that these videos are going to be of great importance to me as I pursue a career in management. Your advice directly impacts the character traits and skills I'm going to build, especially as a woman, and I have to thank you. Discovered you today and absolutely already oving your videos so far. Keep it up!!
Im a high schooler here as well
I work for tiktok engineering office in Mountain View. Thank you for making such an informative and an amazing videos, but I’d like to say that I have a very good work life balance. In fact I go to the gym two hours everyday followed by a couple of hours of mandarin class after work. A lot of senior employees have late night CN meetings but overall it’s a very bearable work life balance. I’m not sure, I’m a relatively new employee but I’ve never had employees being rude to me, a lot of colleagues who have meetings with international teams don’t have similar complains either. To conclude, i guess it depends a lot from team to team and profession to profession !
Still there?
I absolutely love this insight and transparency. Also a very relatable experience as a WOC in tech. So glad you put you first!
Ah it is such a difference experience as an WOC in tech! Glad this video resonated with you - wishing you the best on your career journey!
I feel like there are a lot of differences between eastern vs western work culture here, where there is such a clear hierarchy / the most important thing is to be "in power" than team work, which is really interesting!!!
Ouch, ouch, ouch -- @7:15 hurts. I'm so glad you're taking care of yourself. Excited for you and thank you for sharing!
I know! Was rough to hear and keep it together. Hope no one else has to go thru these experiences!
Whoa, I was very close to accepting a job at tiktok. So glad I didn't since I felt a bit uncomfortable with 2 of the interviewers. So glad I didn't leave my current job which I got promoted at. Sometimes, patience pays.
Oh wow! Well, I’ll say that this doesn’t exist on every team. Some people really like their teams and how things are set up. I’m glad you stayed and got a promotion though!!! 🎉🎊
Chloe you articulated this so well! I went through a very similar thing and it is awful to feel your feelings are invalid. Excited for your future and sending you so much love🌞
This is great I'm glad you share your experience Chloé, Everyone needs to find what gives true financial freedom and happiness, if your 9-5 gives you that then keep it!
I Just found your channel. you rock 🎉
People should've woke up to this a long time ago
Having a 9_5 is not a dream any longer
@@melvinjohnreacher9566 I really enjoy doing my work, and still financially independent having my passive income pay for my lifestyle. I will retire early at 50 so I can travel the world.
@@yvonneerik2510 cool 👍
How do you make so much from passive income?
I make extra income from side business and most importantly investments