What I don’t like is it’s often a client first culture and employees last and that does not sit well with me! You are constantly at the mercy of clients.
Partners taking on clients engagements profiles that they are not the best at and the project management team struggles thereafter while producing lower quality work. All in the name of hitting revenue targets etc.
@@nogatekeepers ya I work in a small family office. Although I might launch a search / fundless sponsor with a friend soon. Your content is great btw. Super succinct and well structured -- almost like your worked at mck
A job honestly doesn’t gives you the time, space and opportunity to chase your dreams and achieve your goals. From personal experience i can tell you working a serious job is modern day slavery. they pay you a small amount for doing a significant amount of work and promises you promotion. Best advice make investments and take calculated risks that would guarantee your success.
Understanding personal finances and investing will most likely lead to greater financial independence. By being knowledgeable about money and investing, individuals can make informed decisions about how to save, spend, and invest their money.
@@Rachadrian Stocks are pretty unstable at the moment, but if you do the right math, you should be just fine. Bloomberg and other finance media have been recording cases of folks gaining over 250k just in a matter of weeks/couple months, so I think there are alot of wealth transfer in this downtime if you know where to look.
The best course of action if you lack market knowledge is to ask a consultant or investing coach for guidance or assistance. Speaking with a consultant helped me stay afloat in the market and grow my portfolio to about 65% since January, even though I know it sounds obvious or generic. I believe that is the most effective way to enter the business at the moment
#1 As a young engineer, travel sounded glamorous. After a while, I wanted a plant, or a dog, or even a consistent gym schedule. Traveling constantly actually sucks.
@@nogatekeepers It was fun at first (or at least the idea of it); but like you mentioned, there were many places that I really only saw the hotel and airport. I'm very good in the Atlanta airport, but I've never seen the town ;-) Same with Dallas, San Francisco - layover hubs to those less-glamorous destinations (lol).
Well companies often need to get their strategy outsourced so I get their role but in most cases I think consulting works as an effective excuse companies can come up with. At least someone in company can secure his job by blaming McKinsey so 😂
2 years in, current but soon to be ex-McK here, just want to emphasize on your first point about ppt presentations. Can’t overstate enough how people here care more about how we communicate things i.e. the format and structure, rather than the actual content itself. Countless times I hear the words “as long as it is justifiable then should be fine”. I feel like the more consulting skills I gain the more detach I become to how the real world operates, and is the main reason why I’ve resolved to turn in the towel
Worked at Big 4 consulting for a decade. You echo my thoughts. I think the reason is that consulting deliverables are quite abstract, so content almost takes back seat. It’s how you are conveying that idea becomes paramount
Fr you really learn how to talk bs professionally 😂 I used to find myself doubting what I've actually done for the good of the world Good numbers on paycheck felt like a reward for deceiving myself and my conscience so I left. Feeling so much better
that's interesting, the media is also really detached to the real world while "reporting" about it, i think same can be said about many industries, entertainment, education system, research...
I went to a top tier business school, just below ivy league. I'm so glad I left big firms. I was completely miserable. Now I have been the ceo of a small business for 7 years. I have complete flexibility, earn over $300,000 per year (with potential for way more in the future), and never miss ANYTHING for my kids. I am able to control and impact the results at the business every single day, its very satisfying. I also detest travel for work and that's the main thing that kept me away from consulting.
@@BOSSDONMAN I didn't. Started at entry level after leaving a large firm, just looking for an opportunity. Worked my way up after 7 years into the CEO role. I have 14 years total with the company. I'm 38
I lasted 6 months at Bain in 2009 and decided to leave. It quickly became apparent that I wasn't in the place for me even though I worked my butt off to get a job there. I became a musician. Much happier
I lasted a year in 2009 as well… in Mexico - small MBB offices actually end up being worse in cultish culture… I do financial advisory in my own firm… I set the culture and select my clients…
A friend who worked as a management consultant confided to me ~20 years ago that her firm were usually hired to fire people, because their clients could then claim that they were "advised" to cut staff, thereby shifting the blame. Her job was basically to come up with reason why they needed to cut costs, usually by cutting staff.
I went to business school and don’t understand why an executive with years or decades experience in their industry would hire a business school grad with 2-3 years experience in whatever to tell them how to run their company.
Mc Kinsey is like a person who has memorized the names of different kind punches in boxing and teaches them to any boxer without ever being a boxer himself.
Nice, honest video. My former company was a Mckinsey client for almost a year and a half. I was able to get a relatively good look at their culture, and I understand your video.
Over the years, the absolute highlight of being a customer of McKinsey, was when a young consultant presented some of my own work back to me as his own 'insight'. He had to admit that he didn't actually know where the original material came from.
It's not just whether they add value or not, it's whether their cost is worth it. The company would probably save a lot more ans get way more value by hiring consultant overseas in Europe for example.
Totally get this. I left a global travel platform because of similar politics. As a junior person, you’re often caught in power plays that have nothing to do with you, but they affect everything. It’s exhausting when the work suffers because of personal agendas.
How dare you? They are all highly trained like psychiatrists. You can’t blame them when only cancer patients walk in, and they have to pretend to be oncologists. /s
My experience of McKinsey is they are as likely to destroy value as create value. They are at least extracting value from you as a client to use with their next client. They are often bought in for political reasons. But they are good at business presentations and I don't mean that facetiously. It would be good to have McKinsey in to train engineers to make presentations, but I guess nobody is going to pay them big bucks for that.
i'm a psychotherapist for 40+ yrs. I realized long ago, as fulfilling as the profession has now become to me, in many ways professionalizing natural human kindness, empathy etc does a number on one. Of course, it actually takes many years indeed to learn the skills necessary for the kind of therapy i do, including of course one's own in depth therapy, so there is also a sense in which the session fee does make sense
All good points. As an outsider, I have an issue with the pretension of consultants as being the subject matter ‘experts’ of any particular field or strategy. Most of the time they are not, and just repackage easily available expertise or information with a slicker bow round it.
love the honest take!!! thanks for confirming the myths of the consulting industry. I also feel like once you get to the top of your field, most jobs become sales. Like partners @ MBB, sales. Partners @ Law firms, sales. Partners @ Goldman, sales.
Thanks! Yes, I think that's true, probably across many industries. Once you become senior enough, your job transitions to sales, both externally and internally
Followed this video with a big smile - glad I made in 2000 the decision not to join any consulting firm. I was postdoc at a reputable US University at the time, and KcKinsey threw pizza parties to attract talent. I never signed up nor joined. Instead I stayed in my field of research and made for years much less money than any consulting firm would have provided me. But I made a career, and I am a happy camper since. Truth is nobody likes these consulting companies when they come in to "advise" boards and CEOs.
I've watched quite a few videos about working at consulting firms and still don't understand why any well established companies would pay that kind of money to hire some graduates to teach them how to run their own business. Sure, some grads are smart, but how that has anything to do with running a successful business? All feels like scams that people are all lying about the real secrets under these consulting businesses. No offence to all the honest people working at these firms, you probably truly believe what you do have values for your customers.
@@sonicjoy2002 sometimes they’re dealing with an issue that the company has never seen before but consultants have with other companies. Or sometimes they disagree on a path forward on some key strategic decision and need an external third party to come in. But I do think consultants are probably over used in cases where they’re not needed (and often to plug gaps in existing teams because executives aren’t happy with their own)
The client company already has some ideas about what to do and they use McKinsey to justify it to the Board. That’s how the justify the massive re-organization and subsequent job cuts that dramatically impact the employees.
@@BrittaProducts Imagine a startup founder of nobody presents a business model like that, I'm sure investors will say there were no such market for this service.
Why I am not comfortable with Management Consulting: - Engineering Consultant: Engineering degree, license this and that, apprenticeship by constructing things. - Medical Consultant : Medical doctor degree, license this and that, apprenticeship by curing real people. - Law Consultant : Law degree, license this and that, apprenticeship by solving legal problems. - Management Consultant: MBA degree, fancy clothes, PPT skills.
@@adonisqcompletely depends. If the consultants are people that haven’t been in the industry, and are just consultants to be consultants, probably yeah they’re useless. If you’re hiring a seasoned executive that goes around consulting management on how to run things, could be useful.
Consultants borrow your watch to tell you the time. NO, they don't know your business better than you although they try to look like it. A competent leader can do without consultants. However, sometimes someone has to take the fall when things go south, or fire your buddy who started out with you, so let them made the recommendations that you know very well yourself.
While this description is fine for McKinsey and the Big Four. There are lot smaller specialized Consulting companies which are way more specialized and do a lot of great projects outside of strategy consulting. 99% of the time you will do actual work and not presentations. McKinsey is an extreme case, because they are not hired because the company has no clue about their industry, strategy, processes etc. But to push through unpopular decisions that need to be taken. Plus the nice safety net for the CEO when he can say that this new stupid idea wasn’t his, but was McKinsey’s.
@@81Earthangel yeah I think a lot of controversial and important decisions get validated through consultants as an external party. Understood the consulting ecosystem is deeper than the big 3 and 4 👍🏼
A lot more specialized consulting firms that do great work? That's funny. A team that knows little about a particular company can't add value. They can only advise frameworks and templates that worked for competitors.
@vb-pe2hp I have met many a consultant, and I have yet to be impressed. Sure, if you go there to gain skills, you will likely leave once you gain them.
Meh I joined just to get it on my cv so that I can use my real skills when I eventually leave. The brand name does matter. Is it worth sacrificing a few years. Idk...
Factor no 7 is exactly why i left corporate jobs. I worked at a PR agency. Had learnt many great and not so great things there, saw my seniors with their panda eyes and barely got their off days in peace because of clients. I thought, nope, i don't wanna live a life like that. Also i'm a free spirited type, so being in controlled environment is not for me😅
Same story everywhere: young professional goes into prestigious field, and then realizes that tech/SWE is infinitely better. Seen it a million times now. I dunno why this is so prevalent. Maybe our culture and media just haven’t caught up to tech. It’s not sexy yet.
I think in consulting you definitely can get experienced in execution. These projects are rarer, but they do happen if the client has enough budget and a lack of talent/trust. In fact it was my only project whn I was in strategy consulting.
lol.. you missed the memo. McKinsey sells just one thing. A$$ shield. Management at major companies engage Mckinsey not for their insight or their advice, but for their reputation. If an initiative fail, management can then say this was the best plan money could buy at the time, and if McKinsey failed, no one could have done better. That is good for Management! And if the plan succeeded, they would just claim all the credit. And that is very good for management! McKinsey is the #1 A$$ Shield vendor in the world congratulations on leaving the A$$ Shield business. Hope you are doing something useful with your life. Anything is probably a step up.
This is a great video. I have been working with startups and am continuing to start working as a business consultant with other startups. Thanks for the advice. You are a great guy.
Great video! I've worked at multiple federal agencies for over a decade and they are adult daycares at this point. The politics are 10x of what you described and as a software engineer, it's impossible to get work done.
I agree with you on leaving consulting. I never agreed with selling the work and the value we provided for the $$. It was a great place to access a broad range of experiences, but having direct hands on ownership with actual consequences is a lot more fulfilling. Good luck out there!
You are quite right to say that the stress at McKinsey is different from the stress of running a business. As someone who's run my own business for the past 16 years, all I can say is that it is not for the faint-hearted. Imagine that you can bust your guts off running a business and can still lose everything. At least at McKinsey, you are guaranteed a salary. The same cannot be said for running a business. Sometimes, totally unexpected things can happen, and you have to deal with it on your own, and there may not even be a solution, then what?
#7 and the petty, ego-driven politics is one of the reasons I backed away from government contracting. People with nothing better to do and nothing to lose had too much control over the outcomes. No bueno.
Great video! In the 80s and 90s, Medicine, Law, Finance, and Consulting were the dominant paths to high-paying careers. Consulting, regardless of the firm or level, offers the chance to engage with diverse industries and clients, all while providing a solid income. However, frequent travel for work is a very different experience from traveling for leisure-packing up constantly for business feels far less glamorous over time. Today, with similar effort and commitment, I’d recommend pursuing a career in Big Tech as a software engineer. With AI driving the future, software engineering offers incredible growth opportunities, even though the industry goes through cycles roughly every decade.
@@James-mb5jr responded on why companies need them in my last comment - sometimes to fill in knowledge gaps for situations a company hasn’t been in before but others have, or to validate a controversial decision through a third party
@@James-mb5jr as to why people work there, I think many are like me who are drawn with the quality of people who work there - valedictorians, olympians, top researchers etc - and the doors that the job opens up
@@mindcache5650 Consulting doesn't pay that well at first, so not necessarily as fast as possible You can get higher salaries in finance or especially tech much earlier on. Similarly here, speaking from a lesser developed country.
Awesome, great stuff. Thinking outside the box right here. Subbed because I can fully imagine anything you do on the channel will be energetic, intelligent and interesting!
Agree with all your points, the travel and inability to put down roots was the worst. Talking to BAs nowadays though made me think that it was also a blessing.. taking the travel out changes the lifestyle balance for the better, but also removes a lot of the texture and dynamics of consulting. Some of the best moments of that job were the people in the team room.
I am much happier being an independant consultant than working for a large corp. My time, no bosses and I deal with customers who like my style. The pay is less but I am so much more satisfied.
For me it was the true value in life. I took my life in my own hands and studied a lot, because I was passioned about it and found out it could be done in other ways than at a Harvard, which is also important for networking. Networking I found out to do in another way globally, but that’s another story.
You had/have no conception of what consultants do. Manaegment wants to implmenet a new strategy, so they shop around for consultants who "agree" with their "vision." So, if the stratgey fails, the consultants get blamed, and management keeps their jobs. They never should have hired you.
No, sir. It’s the company execs that never should have been hired. Their use of company funds to hire consultants to rubber stamp idiotic ideas equates to corporate malpractice. Real leadership is hard to find.
McKinsey is that old school consulting firm. Sort of like the Big 5 in the 90s...you notch in your 2-3 years for that prestige on your resume...then go somewhere else. You learn a lot (especially PI and BPR) at these Firms...but unless you are aiming for Partner...not worth it longterm due to the 90% travel, constant lookout for billable hours, and stressful deliverable deadlines.
You worked for a company that initiated exponential pay to executives. And now since then, we like to think those executives are alien smart with ideas no one else can comprehend. It’s not the case. It’s simply the hierarchy that allows this
Except this company and others like it are epitome in usless. Whole idea, that you advise on running business you are clueless about - as person and organisation - and somebody pays big bucks for it is ludicrous. I happen to work for company 'consulted' by McKinsey; not sure whose fault the current situation is, but this is royal clusterfaq.
@@Theo-W-91 Anderson was accounting, consulting, software development and systems engineering and deployment. They developed and owned mainframe software systems that managed worldwide product distribution. It was called DCS (Distribution Control System). Like I said, it was there until it wasn’t.
@@bobgaston1 You’re still spelling it wrong- but Andersen got in trouble for endorsing (certifying) fraudulent accounting practices as Enron’s auditor. Their legacy consulting business still exists today (at Accenture I believe)
@@bobgaston1 If you want to make a point, you could point out that the CEO of Enron, who concocted many of the crimes that brought Andersen down, WAS a McKinsey consultant- who advised Enron before leaving to work there. Fun fact
They don't want you to "communicate" with 10 point font and filling in the white space. It should be obvious to a grade-schooler that it's intended to obscure and confuse.
When you are about to live you last day, you won't care about your career and how much money you made. My Dad is near his end of life and he wasted so much time working - he totally regrets it now, but it's too late to go back. These big corporations don't care about your quality of life. You are simply a number and an expected YES MAN to them.
This firm seems to be coming full circle now, where many firms are specifically excluding them for the procurement process. Way too many expensive screw ups.
‘ If you pay them lots and lots of money in consulting fees, the advice is going to bring unbound value…. Right?’ That’s’ the con. Which, to be fair, is also a reflection of internal frictions and politics in old school firms I.e. hiring a consultant is a safe CYA move.
While I appreciate your honesty, the fact is many college graduates would give anything for this work opportunity with McKinsey. I would not have blown this off. 😮
The big four are overpriced and inflated, I got for an specific project with a big car company and the words of the head about these were "I dont need another team of people telling me obvious things that we already know" while he was telling us what he needed, when and how. We did a great job just me and other guy and drove real savings in costs the next week the project went live... anyway they are overpriced but you can use is to move to other companies and their network
I come from a place where communication is thought thru (including font sizes) and your boss was completely wrong - goes against effective communication and storytelling practice. Rather what he suggested is consistent with pushing fluff and puffery.
Any similar reasons why you left your job in the past? Or for the other former consultants, any different reasons you left the profession?
Had a b..ch for a manager and told her that her evaluation was bs based on the trainings I successfully conducted.
What I don’t like is it’s often a client first culture and employees last and that does not sit well with me! You are constantly at the mercy of clients.
Partners taking on clients engagements profiles that they are not the best at and the project management team struggles thereafter while producing lower quality work.
All in the name of hitting revenue targets etc.
Ex-McKinsey here: 100% agree with your take. You have a whole life to live, making pretty decks is not how I want to spend it.
Thanks for dropping a line! You’re on the buy side now I take it?
@@nogatekeepers ya I work in a small family office. Although I might launch a search / fundless sponsor with a friend soon. Your content is great btw. Super succinct and well structured -- almost like your worked at mck
@@2and20I take it you’re good at marketing. Consultants can’t generate alpha
size 10 font don't sound pretty at all lol
@@2and20 thanks lol! Appreciate the kind note. Sounds exciting, good luck with the fund!
A job honestly doesn’t gives you the time, space and opportunity to chase your dreams and achieve your goals. From personal experience i can tell you working a serious job is modern day slavery. they pay you a small amount for doing a significant amount of work and promises you promotion. Best advice make investments and take calculated risks that would guarantee your success.
Understanding personal finances and investing will most likely lead to greater financial independence. By being knowledgeable about money and investing, individuals can make informed decisions about how to save, spend, and invest their money.
@@Rachadrian Stocks are pretty unstable at the moment, but if you do the right math, you should be just fine. Bloomberg and other finance media have been recording cases of folks gaining over 250k just in a matter of weeks/couple months, so I think there are alot of wealth transfer in this downtime if you know where to look.
The best course of action if you lack market knowledge is to ask a consultant or investing coach for guidance or assistance. Speaking with a consultant helped me stay afloat in the market and grow my portfolio to about 65% since January, even though I know it sounds obvious or generic. I believe that is the most effective way to enter the business at the moment
Could you kindly elaborate on the advisor's background and qualifications?
‘Annette Christine Conte ’ You can easily look her up, she has years of financiaI market experience.
#1 As a young engineer, travel sounded glamorous. After a while, I wanted a plant, or a dog, or even a consistent gym schedule. Traveling constantly actually sucks.
@@WhiteytheLab agreed not for everyone!
@@nogatekeepers It was fun at first (or at least the idea of it); but like you mentioned, there were many places that I really only saw the hotel and airport. I'm very good in the Atlanta airport, but I've never seen the town ;-) Same with Dallas, San Francisco - layover hubs to those less-glamorous destinations (lol).
As a very short term otr truck driver I can tell you that you're absolutely correct.
For over 20 years I've been saying that most of consulting is a scam. Still haven't changed my mind.
As someone who has to clean up the mess, I would tend to agree with you.
@@AlecMaly I guess they can't be blamed for helping create other jobs! Haha.
@@brotendo no, it's just extra work lol
@@brotendo sometimes the advice they give is to cut 30% workforce, so...
Well companies often need to get their strategy outsourced so I get their role but in most cases I think consulting works as an effective excuse companies can come up with. At least someone in company can secure his job by blaming McKinsey so 😂
2 years in, current but soon to be ex-McK here, just want to emphasize on your first point about ppt presentations. Can’t overstate enough how people here care more about how we communicate things i.e. the format and structure, rather than the actual content itself. Countless times I hear the words “as long as it is justifiable then should be fine”. I feel like the more consulting skills I gain the more detach I become to how the real world operates, and is the main reason why I’ve resolved to turn in the towel
Worked at Big 4 consulting for a decade. You echo my thoughts. I think the reason is that consulting deliverables are quite abstract, so content almost takes back seat. It’s how you are conveying that idea becomes paramount
As my boss once said to me 'the data might be bullshit but as long as it looks nice they'll believe it'
Fr you really learn how to talk bs professionally 😂 I used to find myself doubting what I've actually done for the good of the world Good numbers on paycheck felt like a reward for deceiving myself and my conscience so I left. Feeling so much better
that's interesting, the media is also really detached to the real world while "reporting" about it, i think same can be said about many industries, entertainment, education system, research...
I went to a top tier business school, just below ivy league. I'm so glad I left big firms. I was completely miserable. Now I have been the ceo of a small business for 7 years. I have complete flexibility, earn over $300,000 per year (with potential for way more in the future), and never miss ANYTHING for my kids. I am able to control and impact the results at the business every single day, its very satisfying. I also detest travel for work and that's the main thing that kept me away from consulting.
Nice man. What industry?
How did you place directly into CEO after business school?
@@BOSSDONMAN I didn't. Started at entry level after leaving a large firm, just looking for an opportunity. Worked my way up after 7 years into the CEO role. I have 14 years total with the company. I'm 38
How can I join your team? (serious question)
I'm interested in joining or interning in your company. Can you help?
I lasted 6 months at Bain in 2009 and decided to leave. It quickly became apparent that I wasn't in the place for me even though I worked my butt off to get a job there. I became a musician. Much happier
Awesome to hear!
The John Legend route:)
Wow
I lasted a year in 2009 as well… in Mexico - small MBB offices actually end up being worse in cultish culture… I do financial advisory in my own firm… I set the culture and select my clients…
The only advice McKinsey can come up with is to lay off enough employees to pay for their fees.
This is SO true 👍😂
A friend who worked as a management consultant confided to me ~20 years ago that her firm were usually hired to fire people, because their clients could then claim that they were "advised" to cut staff, thereby shifting the blame. Her job was basically to come up with reason why they needed to cut costs, usually by cutting staff.
consulting = 1960's BS. (i worked as invesment banker and now im a software engineer)
@@sharon77787 What software package?
absoluterly..what a a waste of MBAs...
I went to business school and don’t understand why an executive with years or decades experience in their industry would hire a business school grad with 2-3 years experience in whatever to tell them how to run their company.
spot on
yea, there's about 200 million of us people that don't understand that either
Mc Kinsey is like a person who has memorized the names of different kind punches in boxing and teaches them to any boxer without ever being a boxer himself.
Yup
Nice, honest video. My former company was a Mckinsey client for almost a year and a half. I was able to get a relatively good look at their culture, and I understand your video.
Thank you!!
I left McKinsey because I couldn’t stand their company values. I am thriving at another great firm.
Glad to hear!
Over the years, the absolute highlight of being a customer of McKinsey, was when a young consultant presented some of my own work back to me as his own 'insight'. He had to admit that he didn't actually know where the original material came from.
Never worked there, but we have used them and BCG several times. Only once, with one guy, have I ever thought “these guys are adding value.”
@@timothyeffio5497 I think overused as well
Why did y'all use them several times then?
I think this is the genius of their business model. You “need” BCG like consultancy work to get things approved by boards.
@@timothyeffio5497 interesting. John Oliver's Last week tonight has an interesting piece on them.
It's not just whether they add value or not, it's whether their cost is worth it. The company would probably save a lot more ans get way more value by hiring consultant overseas in Europe for example.
Totally get this. I left a global travel platform because of similar politics. As a junior person, you’re often caught in power plays that have nothing to do with you, but they affect everything. It’s exhausting when the work suffers because of personal agendas.
consultants are like doctors practicing without a real degree
Damn lol
How dare you? They are all highly trained like psychiatrists. You can’t blame them when only cancer patients walk in, and they have to pretend to be oncologists. /s
What’s a “real” degree? Can’t you just buy one?
Found the guy who got rejected
how so?
My experience of McKinsey is they are as likely to destroy value as create value. They are at least extracting value from you as a client to use with their next client. They are often bought in for political reasons. But they are good at business presentations and I don't mean that facetiously. It would be good to have McKinsey in to train engineers to make presentations, but I guess nobody is going to pay them big bucks for that.
Yeah, their real job is to lend credibility to some CEOs ideas. Allowing them to pretend their intuitions are actually "research based".
i'm a psychotherapist for 40+ yrs. I realized long ago, as fulfilling as the profession has now become to me, in many ways professionalizing natural human kindness, empathy etc does a number on one.
Of course, it actually takes many years indeed to learn the skills necessary for the kind of therapy i do, including of course one's own in depth therapy, so there is also a sense in which the session fee does make sense
All I know is when any company I worked for has used them, layoffs. Then a year later the company brings back all those “redundancies”
Which companies exactly had layoffs?
@ big named ones
@@mr.bluenotedoobop name tem
I left McKinsey for many (but not all) of the similar reasons. I also now work with software startups.
Nice!
ohh the famous @caseinterview. I read your material to get into consulting
All good points. As an outsider, I have an issue with the pretension of consultants as being the subject matter ‘experts’ of any particular field or strategy. Most of the time they are not, and just repackage easily available expertise or information with a slicker bow round it.
love the honest take!!! thanks for confirming the myths of the consulting industry. I also feel like once you get to the top of your field, most jobs become sales. Like partners @ MBB, sales. Partners @ Law firms, sales. Partners @ Goldman, sales.
Thanks! Yes, I think that's true, probably across many industries. Once you become senior enough, your job transitions to sales, both externally and internally
@@nogatekeepers Not probably but definitely true. Can attest to it personally as partner in a big four.
This is such a honest take. It pretty much mirrors my experience in BCG.
Thank you!!
Top reason why I could never work for a consulting company - I absolutely hate PPT presentations (digital slide presentations in general) 😂
Followed this video with a big smile - glad I made in 2000 the decision not to join any consulting firm. I was postdoc at a reputable US University at the time, and KcKinsey threw pizza parties to attract talent. I never signed up nor joined. Instead I stayed in my field of research and made for years much less money than any consulting firm would have provided me. But I made a career, and I am a happy camper since. Truth is nobody likes these consulting companies when they come in to "advise" boards and CEOs.
It must be soul crushing to be a professional yes-man, being brought on to validate a CEOs mind, that he made up before even looking to hire.
I've watched quite a few videos about working at consulting firms and still don't understand why any well established companies would pay that kind of money to hire some graduates to teach them how to run their own business. Sure, some grads are smart, but how that has anything to do with running a successful business? All feels like scams that people are all lying about the real secrets under these consulting businesses. No offence to all the honest people working at these firms, you probably truly believe what you do have values for your customers.
The underlying reason is income tax deduction.
@@sonicjoy2002 sometimes they’re dealing with an issue that the company has never seen before but consultants have with other companies. Or sometimes they disagree on a path forward on some key strategic decision and need an external third party to come in. But I do think consultants are probably over used in cases where they’re not needed (and often to plug gaps in existing teams because executives aren’t happy with their own)
@@nogatekeepers That makes some sense, I guess I need to be at that level to understand the price to pay for these consultancy.
The client company already has some ideas about what to do and they use McKinsey to justify it to the Board. That’s how the justify the massive re-organization and subsequent job cuts that dramatically impact the employees.
@@BrittaProducts Imagine a startup founder of nobody presents a business model like that, I'm sure investors will say there were no such market for this service.
Why I am not comfortable with Management Consulting:
- Engineering Consultant: Engineering degree, license this and that, apprenticeship by constructing things.
- Medical Consultant : Medical doctor degree, license this and that, apprenticeship by curing real people.
- Law Consultant : Law degree, license this and that, apprenticeship by solving legal problems.
- Management Consultant: MBA degree, fancy clothes, PPT skills.
The bigger scam in the world management consulting
My father, a businessman, said consultants are con-men. Double-C - after just one experience with a smaller firm’s consultant. So it is all the same
@@adonisqcompletely depends. If the consultants are people that haven’t been in the industry, and are just consultants to be consultants, probably yeah they’re useless. If you’re hiring a seasoned executive that goes around consulting management on how to run things, could be useful.
Consultants borrow your watch to tell you the time. NO, they don't know your business better than you although they try to look like it. A competent leader can do without consultants. However, sometimes someone has to take the fall when things go south, or fire your buddy who started out with you, so let them made the recommendations that you know very well yourself.
While this description is fine for McKinsey and the Big Four. There are lot smaller specialized Consulting companies which are way more specialized and do a lot of great projects outside of strategy consulting. 99% of the time you will do actual work and not presentations. McKinsey is an extreme case, because they are not hired because the company has no clue about their industry, strategy, processes etc. But to push through unpopular decisions that need to be taken. Plus the nice safety net for the CEO when he can say that this new stupid idea wasn’t his, but was McKinsey’s.
@@81Earthangel yeah I think a lot of controversial and important decisions get validated through consultants as an external party. Understood the consulting ecosystem is deeper than the big 3 and 4 👍🏼
A lot more specialized consulting firms that do great work? That's funny. A team that knows little about a particular company can't add value. They can only advise frameworks and templates that worked for competitors.
Dream job? Consulting is a job people do when they dont have real skills.
what if it is? it can be where people acquire them
@vb-pe2hp I have met many a consultant, and I have yet to be impressed. Sure, if you go there to gain skills, you will likely leave once you gain them.
Meh I joined just to get it on my cv so that I can use my real skills when I eventually leave. The brand name does matter. Is it worth sacrificing a few years. Idk...
@TheAnalyst-ib9rr I hear this a lot. I hope it worked out for you.
Great video! Nice to see you back to uploading!
Thanks! Trying to get back on the swing of things…
No matter what you are, work for other people is 100% depression, even work for your parents!
Thank you for the video.I used to work in Andersen consulting ,after seeing this video,I glad that I now work in different industry
You're welcome!
Factor no 7 is exactly why i left corporate jobs. I worked at a PR agency. Had learnt many great and not so great things there, saw my seniors with their panda eyes and barely got their off days in peace because of clients. I thought, nope, i don't wanna live a life like that. Also i'm a free spirited type, so being in controlled environment is not for me😅
I know someone who works there. Makes tons of dough and will retire early, early, early.
def possible if you have the discipline to not get tied up in golden handcuffs!
Same story everywhere: young professional goes into prestigious field, and then realizes that tech/SWE is infinitely better. Seen it a million times now. I dunno why this is so prevalent. Maybe our culture and media just haven’t caught up to tech. It’s not sexy yet.
Wayne, I really enjoy your communication & presentation style. Thank you for creating enjoyable and entertaining content. 😊
Thanks, appreciate that very much Bradley!
i think what you said about transactional is very insightful. till you verbalized it, i didn't realize it.
I truly believe there are some jobs that influence your behavior as a person!
@@nogatekeepers Thats true. In the end, we become what we repeatedly do.
@@SN23031978 👍Appreciate the note!
I think in consulting you definitely can get experienced in execution.
These projects are rarer, but they do happen if the client has enough budget and a lack of talent/trust.
In fact it was my only project whn I was in strategy consulting.
Fair - although not the norm at McKinsey
lol.. you missed the memo. McKinsey sells just one thing. A$$ shield. Management at major companies engage Mckinsey not for their insight or their advice, but for their reputation. If an initiative fail, management can then say this was the best plan money could buy at the time, and if McKinsey failed, no one could have done better. That is good for Management! And if the plan succeeded, they would just claim all the credit. And that is very good for management!
McKinsey is the #1 A$$ Shield vendor in the world
congratulations on leaving the A$$ Shield business. Hope you are doing something useful with your life. Anything is probably a step up.
absolutely
Not all consultants add value to the company that hires them. As a banker who is now retired, I could speak from my first hand experience.
This is a great video. I have been working with startups and am continuing to start working as a business consultant with other startups. Thanks for the advice. You are a great guy.
Thank you!
Great video! I've worked at multiple federal agencies for over a decade and they are adult daycares at this point. The politics are 10x of what you described and as a software engineer, it's impossible to get work done.
@@RRonnieDSILVA crazy bureaucracy….
Yes becuause its hard being bullshitter all the time
I also quit consulting and I agree strongly to your points. Especially not having a feedback loop was really unsatisfying to me.
I agree with you on leaving consulting. I never agreed with selling the work and the value we provided for the $$. It was a great place to access a broad range of experiences, but having direct hands on ownership with actual consequences is a lot more fulfilling.
Good luck out there!
Thanks, you too!
Spot on. Stress is everywhere.. the healthy and rewarding kind is indeed the defining...
You are quite right to say that the stress at McKinsey is different from the stress of running a business. As someone who's run my own business for the past 16 years, all I can say is that it is not for the faint-hearted. Imagine that you can bust your guts off running a business and can still lose everything. At least at McKinsey, you are guaranteed a salary. The same cannot be said for running a business. Sometimes, totally unexpected things can happen, and you have to deal with it on your own, and there may not even be a solution, then what?
Good navigation of avoidance of a law suit. Say what you really feel instead of sugar coating it to appease the McK attorneys.
That's not consulting - that's corporate work. An independent consultant doesn't have these issues.
Ha, so becoming more honest with yourself.
Have a good life and I respect your choice in VC. I deeply respect VC
Thank you!
I wasted 10 years in consulting. I got a dog and it changed my life. Why did I ever waste so much time in airports???
Dog changed my life. 😀 yes yes. Dog is like a having two babies
#7 and the petty, ego-driven politics is one of the reasons I backed away from government contracting. People with nothing better to do and nothing to lose had too much control over the outcomes. No bueno.
I got headhunted by McKinsey. Remembered my time at HP. Didn't interview. No regrets.
Great video! In the 80s and 90s, Medicine, Law, Finance, and Consulting were the dominant paths to high-paying careers. Consulting, regardless of the firm or level, offers the chance to engage with diverse industries and clients, all while providing a solid income. However, frequent travel for work is a very different experience from traveling for leisure-packing up constantly for business feels far less glamorous over time. Today, with similar effort and commitment, I’d recommend pursuing a career in Big Tech as a software engineer. With AI driving the future, software engineering offers incredible growth opportunities, even though the industry goes through cycles roughly every decade.
Interesting. So why do people trip over themselves trying to get into consultancies and why corporations keep using them?
@@James-mb5jr responded on why companies need them in my last comment - sometimes to fill in knowledge gaps for situations a company hasn’t been in before but others have, or to validate a controversial decision through a third party
@@James-mb5jr as to why people work there, I think many are like me who are drawn with the quality of people who work there - valedictorians, olympians, top researchers etc - and the doors that the job opens up
To repay their student loans as fast as possible.Not for love.
@@mindcache5650 Consulting doesn't pay that well at first, so not necessarily as fast as possible
You can get higher salaries in finance or especially tech much earlier on.
Similarly here, speaking from a lesser developed country.
Awesome, great stuff. Thinking outside the box right here. Subbed because I can fully imagine anything you do on the channel will be energetic, intelligent and interesting!
Agree with all your points, the travel and inability to put down roots was the worst. Talking to BAs nowadays though made me think that it was also a blessing.. taking the travel out changes the lifestyle balance for the better, but also removes a lot of the texture and dynamics of consulting. Some of the best moments of that job were the people in the team room.
Great content. Appreciate the honesty.
Thanks for the kind note! Def trying to be transparent in the case it helps someone else
Now you have chat GPT to help you do that kind of stuff lol
I am much happier being an independant consultant than working for a large corp. My time, no bosses and I deal with customers who like my style. The pay is less but I am so much more satisfied.
For me it was the true value in life. I took my life in my own hands and studied a lot, because I was passioned about it and found out it could be done in other ways than at a Harvard, which is also important for networking. Networking I found out to do in another way globally, but that’s another story.
You had/have no conception of what consultants do. Manaegment wants to implmenet a new strategy, so they shop around for consultants who "agree" with their "vision." So, if the stratgey fails, the consultants get blamed, and management keeps their jobs. They never should have hired you.
Wow okay, this changes my whole perspective about consulting
No, sir. It’s the company execs that never should have been hired. Their use of company funds to hire consultants to rubber stamp idiotic ideas equates to corporate malpractice. Real leadership is hard to find.
Corporate Strategy is where it at my man! Great video
Thanks!
Wayne, I agree with you 100%!
Thanks!
Great storytelling man, greetings from Colombia.
thank you!
Yes many Top Consulting companies consider that kind of thing as "providing value to the customer/business".
Amen to your point that consultants aren’t worth anything near what they charge. It’s usually a total waste of money to bring a consultant in.
McKinsey is that old school consulting firm. Sort of like the Big 5 in the 90s...you notch in your 2-3 years for that prestige on your resume...then go somewhere else. You learn a lot (especially PI and BPR) at these Firms...but unless you are aiming for Partner...not worth it longterm due to the 90% travel, constant lookout for billable hours, and stressful deliverable deadlines.
You worked for a company that initiated exponential pay to executives. And now since then, we like to think those executives are alien smart with ideas no one else can comprehend.
It’s not the case. It’s simply the hierarchy that allows this
McK looks on the resume. Great place to come from but not to stay at. Use it as a stepping stone to something better and more satisfying.
I’d love to have you as a mentor! Launching my SaaS this week:) loving your content
Thants very kind Andrew! Appreciate the kind note and good luck this week :)
Having earned money, I am glad that I graduated from schools with your advice!
Except this company and others like it are epitome in usless. Whole idea, that you advise on running business you are clueless about - as person and organisation - and somebody pays big bucks for it is ludicrous. I happen to work for company 'consulted' by McKinsey; not sure whose fault the current situation is, but this is royal clusterfaq.
Before McKinsey there was Author Anderson. Until it wasn’t.
Arthur* Andersen* was an accounting firm
@@Theo-W-91 Anderson was accounting, consulting, software development and systems engineering and deployment. They developed and owned mainframe software systems that managed worldwide product distribution. It was called DCS (Distribution Control System). Like I said, it was there until it wasn’t.
@@bobgaston1 You’re still spelling it wrong- but Andersen got in trouble for endorsing (certifying) fraudulent accounting practices as Enron’s auditor. Their legacy consulting business still exists today (at Accenture I believe)
@@bobgaston1 If you want to make a point, you could point out that the CEO of Enron, who concocted many of the crimes that brought Andersen down, WAS a McKinsey consultant- who advised Enron before leaving to work there. Fun fact
One short sentence and you couldn't even get the name right.
They don't want you to "communicate" with 10 point font and filling in the white space. It should be obvious to a grade-schooler that it's intended to obscure and confuse.
Great video. I always wanted to work at McKinsey. Seems as if I dodged a bullet.
Sounds just like agency and startup life. I’ll never go back to that
This is a very helpful video! Thank you!
I'm also an idealist optimist😅
Thank you!
When you are about to live you last day, you won't care about your career and how much money you made.
My Dad is near his end of life and he wasted so much time working - he totally regrets it now, but it's too late to go back.
These big corporations don't care about your quality of life. You are simply a number and an expected YES MAN to them.
I'm 33, about to graduate with my M.D, and still trying to figure out wtf a "consultant" does.
1000% this video. Well done Wayne!
Thank you very much!!
You wanted to enjoy your life. We get it.
This firm seems to be coming full circle now, where many firms are specifically excluding them for the procurement process. Way too many expensive screw ups.
Thanks for this excellent presentation!
@@hughofIreland thank you!!
‘ If you pay them lots and lots of money in consulting fees, the advice is going to bring unbound value…. Right?’ That’s’ the con. Which, to be fair, is also a reflection of internal frictions and politics in old school firms I.e. hiring a consultant is a safe CYA move.
You mention you are not able to see the strategy to execution. We’re you not able to join on implementation projects?
No, only strategy projects
Very good insight.
@@Thoughts2002 thanks!
What did you do during your time at Google?
I was on the monetization team at TH-cam back in 2013 as the skippable ad format was starting to scale
While I appreciate your honesty, the fact is many college graduates would give anything for this work opportunity with McKinsey. I would not have blown this off. 😮
Completely agree it's a privilege to have options. Many people, my parents and grandparents included, did not.
Just like law firms, it’s about selling services
The big four are overpriced and inflated, I got for an specific project with a big car company and the words of the head about these were "I dont need another team of people telling me obvious things that we already know" while he was telling us what he needed, when and how. We did a great job just me and other guy and drove real savings in costs the next week the project went live... anyway they are overpriced but you can use is to move to other companies and their network
thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching Cara!
you didn't get the memo on the presentation style used in the firm when you joined?
@@patrickleung5863 nope! There’s a style guide but Still disagreement on details like font size
I just graduated from NUS and I have an interview with McKinsey & Co (Singapore office) this Monday 😂
Good luck!
I come from a place where communication is thought thru (including font sizes) and your boss was completely wrong - goes against effective communication and storytelling practice. Rather what he suggested is consistent with pushing fluff and puffery.
The amount of time we waste on things that are form over substance is ridiculous/ makes some engagements so boring