It seems like there were so many small things they could have done to improve things. The Qimir vs the Jedi fight could have been really interesting if the Jedi recognized the cortosis after the first lightsabers were deactivated and were visually fearful. One of the interesting things about the book Darth Bane: Path of Destruction is that his hilt was curved like Dooku's and it made fighting against him difficult as the angle of his blade was different. One of the Jedi fighting him recognizes it and calls it out, but they still all end up dying, although they almost killed him, which makes that fight just epic. Have Qimir continue to actually use his strong Force Push, and some Jedi adjust and defend against it, others don't- leaving the fight constantly to a 1-on-2 or something more manageable for the choreography while having it MAKE SENSE. Have the Jedi attempt to use Force Powers and Qimir do a Force Scream that paralyzes some of them, making them vulnerable. That way, he continues to look powerful and dangerous, while the Jedi don't *just* look incompetent. Love your insights on what could have been done to improve the story and characters. The setup for each makes it incredibly difficult with just how bad the plot itself was written. Ep1 should have been a mostly silent episode where we just follow Master Indara around the small outpost as she helps people, resolves disputes, lifts a broken cart with the force, calms an animal, etc- things that would ingratiate us to the idea that this is a normal Jedi doing normal Jedi things. It should have ended with her being ambushed by a mysterious figure who's face we don't see, and who doesn't speak. That way two things occur: 1. We wonder WHY this seemingly normal and benevolent Jedi is killed, and 2. We wonder who this figure could be, how and why they would kill a Jedi. Episode ends with a shot behind the cloaked figure of Mae walking up to the cloaked figure of Smylo Ren (who's not giving a dumb speech- we never talk about the 'killing a Jedi without a weapon' nonsense- but who IS standing in front of someone on their knees we hear wimpering and saying things like, "I've told you all I know, please please please...") and we just hear her muffled voice say something like, "It's done" or "It's begun" and then Smylo turns his head to the side to acknowledge May before igniting his lightsaber and bringing it down on his captive. Mystery and positive reasoning to show off the red lightsaber while demonstrating the cold ruthlessness of Smylo and an unaffected Mae. Keeps some MYSTERY alive for a touch longer. Then we could *follow* Osha in parallel going about her work. Don't have the Jedi arrive immediately to arrest her. Have her have terrible dreams about the death of Jedi. Back on Coruscant, have an *actual* investigation into Master Indara's death. They can then have Sol imply he might know some deeper reason for the attack, but he's unsure as he can't be sure of any connection to the events on Brendok yet. They go through known threats- people, groups with a vendetta against the Jedi, etc- then they move on to Jedi that are missing or not in contact. Kelnacca even becomes a suspect possibly. They consider former or failed padawans and THAT's where Osha comes up. Maybe she's the only one they can't account for, so Sol offers to go find her. Go from there. Sol finds Osha, she tells him about the terrible nightmares, Sol tells her the truth about what happened on Brendok and together they start to wonder if Mae is actually still alive. Everything you mention character-wise follows nicely from something as simple as this. Anyway, I could rant for DAYS on the lost potential of this show. Thanks for your insight and patience.
Yes. Yes!! If they had just set about tackling as many of the small story problems as possible, it would have elevated the series. Would it have made the series "good?" I don't know, but it would have made it better. I love your suggestions for Qimir. He was basically the best character in this series, but even still they could have made him so much better! Great suggestions. Also, I like your suggestions for how they could have started the series. It would have made us care a little about these characters before the action started. I get the impulse to start with a lightsaber fight and a dead Jedi, but why in the world would you spend Carrie Ann Moss that way and so quickly. She's amazing and they wasted her. So much lost potential! Thanks for sharing!
I like showing Indira earlier. As it was, we barely got enough time with her. WE got more time with jekki and the boring rules jedi before they were killed.
@@doro626 I loved her, honestly. I wanted more. It was such a waste to have her in ..... what? .... 5 minutes of the episode before killing her off? That was my first tip off that they didn't understand the show, fandom, or the actors they had cast.
Modern Star Trek has the same writing problem : reinvented to serve an ego rather than continued to serve a story. Landing a job in an established world isn't the time to leave your mark - it's the time to earn that right. It's like taking a car to be repaired and when you pick it up? they've pimped it out with musical horns, go-faster stripes and huge logos for their business.
Modern Star Trek basically reinvented itself so that it could essentially retell the same stories to a new audience rather than just expanding the universe and furthering the creation. I find it baffling that they would erase their own history and turn their story logic into "Soup of the Day" storytelling.
@@ErinUnderwood - You know far better than me - but I do feel the shape of it. Dare I say "The Orville" suggests producers could be doing a lot more to shape these shows too. I should just read books :)
@ErinUnderwood I'm sorry but how can green Jedi lady blame Sol anyway. He was on Courscant teaching Jedi kids when Trinity was killed. There's witnesses both to that killing and to her where Torbin was killed. The accusation makes no sense from her POV. Why not simply say it was Osha in revenge for being expelled like they first thought it was ?
@@geraintthatcher3076 I agree totally. She's a total "blame gamer" and I think she has a long history of pulling together elaborate ruses to cover her a__. It would be tricky, but I am sure she can figure something out.
I miss George Lucas 😭 I remember watching Force Awakens in theaters and my head told me its not Star Wars. Didnt sink into me until I saw the shows. There is no hope for this franchise
@@ErinUnderwood I'm just hoping they course correct it. They might have to restart everything because it's not panning out. I've recently started reading the Expanded Universe and I highly recommend those as good reads
@@tedoyle99 Just like 'there are only 2 Terminator movies', and 'there are only 2 Alien movies'', I have now accepted 'there are only 6 Star Wars movies'
Before I finish this, I’m going to leave my idea on how to fix this here. I wonder if there will be any overlap? :) Disney/Hedland could have written this show to better explain how the Jedi were unprepared to face the return of the Sith, the downfall of Anakin, and the rise of the Empire. Hedland’s portrayal of incompetence, immorality, and corruption within the Jedi is so careless and disconnected from the premises of the prequels: If anything, the Jedi had become complacent and unimaginative after centuries without proper adversaries. This show should have portrayed the Order as officious, inflexible, overly religious, and nearly ceremonial. Imagine something like the Shaolin temple, a place once focused on developing and preserving martial arts, creating a cadre of warrior monks to defend temples in times of strife, and reconciling all of that with Buddhism. The Shaolin temple existed for hundreds of years, but to a degree lost touch with its original purpose as the Chinese Imperial state provided peace and Buddhism became near enough the state religion. Over time, the warrior monks of Shaolin came to codify their practices as a form of meditation instead of martial arts, tai chi or “chi kung” instead of “kung fu,” energy work instead of fist work, and were ultimately just as susceptible to Maoist reforms as the rest of Imperial, mandarin China, outlawed and put to the torch. The Jedi needn’t be shown as conniving or corrupt, merely surprised and unprepared after centuries of being the most powerful beings around. Their sin being overconfidence still fits with many of the ideas in the Acolyte. In fact, it makes more sense than Hedland’s “nefarious super police:” the paduans and masters could be shown doing light saber kata in the temple, performing these rote moves instead of sparring and assessing only the degree to which the kata, the forms, were adhered to. When the Jedi team then face the Sith guy, they could be shown doing these moves and flips in unison, perfect but rigid, and meant more to intimidate those who cannot use the Force. “Smilo,” it is revealed, was taught by someone who remembers true saber combat, Plagueis, and this explains how one person could possibly defeat six Jedi. The contrast between the rigid and dogmatic Jedi, so sure of their strength and place in this world, with the terrible effectiveness of Smilo would be a genuine draw to someone who lost faith in the Jedi and someone who wanted revenge. The Jedi ask that you subsume yourself to this greater good while the Sith suggest that one or two could make more impact than an order which had become rulebound and inflexible. The Jedi rightly stopped “their mothers,” while perhaps the Sith would have thought of something different. The Jedi could still be motivated by goodness and justice and the green gal saying “we need to talk” to Yoda would make still make sense. Then later, it could be shown that Yoda was urging that the Jedi be ready for all this while the Council was complacent because sparring with weapons was “of the dark side” or whatever. The later seasons could be the sort-of remilitarization of the Jedi that would lead to Qui Gon, but that undercurrent of overconfidence could be the through-line to the Prequels.
@@ErinUnderwood - Wow, that’s such a kind thing to say and lovely to hear! I’ve genuinely appreciated your take on this series, as so much of the discourse has been from guys who are clearly a bit bitter about Disney SW in general. Not that they have zero right to be, but assessing shortcomings specifically, like storytelling or character-building, and bringing different perspectives to bear is, I dunno, more useful criticism? Which is to say that the missteps of Disney SW are legion, surely, but I think competent storytelling and creating interesting and compelling characters would have gone a long way toward limiting this dissent. I myself took issue with “the force awakens” though I thought it looked and sounded amazing, but I was definitely in the minority. People were excited and ready for Star Wars and clearly willing to overlook any shortcomings; Disney would do well to recall that those very same fans were labeled as all sorts of negatives after their films started to disappoint. Fans want to like the things they’re fans of, yet Disney/Lucas would now tell those fans they’re wrong for their opinions. It’s so odd.
I love how you respect the religious aspect of the Jedi. it was also wise to parallel a real world example to keep the story on the rails. Yes, that was a complaint I had. How is the High Republic different from the phantom menace republic? Maybe even tie the separatist agenda into it. The witches follow Separatist ideals.
@@doro626 - Thank you! And YES, I love the idea of using storylines like the Acolyte as not just connective tissue between other storylines, vehicles for cameos, or fan service because “oh wow, that’s how come Leia wears her hair in those buns,” but to better explain things like the nature of and values which underlie the separatist movement. They should be telling good stories with great characters to add subtlety and meaning to conflicts in SW and not to “educate SW fans about identity issues in Hollywood” or to set an unsophisticated and chaste, nearly-immoral Young Adult “will they, won’t they?” story in the SW milieu. I say immoral not because of the “identities” of the characters, but by having the “good” protagonist fall instantly into lust with a person who has just murdered friends of hers, all after suggesting that the affront which drove these two characters for years was the death of people they cared about. Giving characters meant to resonate with (I assume) young women plastic and arbitrary morals is lame, especially when invoking themes of judgment, excuses vs. justifications, and revenge: “The man who saved my life and raised me, someone motivated only by compassion and love, possibly made a mistake when defending me from my mother’s black magic and she died from it. For this, as he kneels before me asking for my forgiveness, I must execute him. But the guy whom I’ve just witnessed murdering my colleagues and friends, who has effectively kidnapped me, and who also wields black magic? Well, he’s pretty and cut and, hey - you know what they say about ‘bad boys!’” Anyway, to your point, I never really understood the reasoning and all the machinations in the Phantom Menace. Lucas tends to present things in simplistic ways and from limited perspectives, which is fine when one has only so much time in a film. But it would be so awesome if shows like this helped us to better understand issues glossed over in the prequels or, as in my idea, flesh-out the morality and tenets of factions like the Jedi - like, I don’t need to know what Plageuis looks like or how the Jedi wore their identical robes and their formal dresses with the symbol from Luke’s helmet on them.
@@doro626 You know, I kind of love the idea of diving into a religion that is not force related. I think that would have been cool ... or have it be tangentially force related. Show us some kind of faith rather than witchcraft or whatever... I think so many more people could have gotten into that angle of the show... Then just make the girls identical twins who are strong in the force and drop all of the vergence nonsense. There were so many different options they could have chosen that would have added unique flavors to the story world that would not have gone up against established lore....
Well said. I enjoyed your take on trying to fix the Acolyte..but I also agreed with your decision that Headland isn’t the person to do it. You can just tell that season two would be more of the same convolution ending in Mae or Osha redeeming themselves… But that kind of ending wouldn’t be satisfactory to me. The Jedi have been treated too poorly in season 1. The first killed by a knife - distracted by blocking a knife that would have killed a bystander, a Jedi committing suicide (wtf), a Wookie Jedi being ‘mind- raped’ by the space witches (an expression I heard elsewhere) and then killed not even from behind but while sitting in a chair (wtf) and then finally Soul who is murdered by his adopted daughter figure/padawan and accepting his fate (which is another way of acknowledging his guilt)… The who is good, who is bad was too poorly done for this show to be given a second chance, and you can guess that Disney’s warped take on the real world isn’t going to equate to a palatable outcome for the SW universe (that once was..). Bin it or spin it..? I choose bin it.. :(
You have helped me to conceptualize a problem that I have been having with the deaths of all of the Jedi in this series. None of the deaths truly felt earned. They were all too easy (which reminds me of Princess Leia telling Han Solo that their escape from the Death Star was too easy). The difference here is that for Han, Leia, and Luke, Vader set up the easy escape so that they could track the Falcon back to the rebel base. There is no realistic reason for why the Jedi's death (from the 4 who confronted the witches plus all of the others who Qimir killed) were so very easy to out maneuver and kill. If "guilt" is the reason the 4 jedi were so easy to kill.... why was it so easy to kill all of the others? When there is no logic to back up the outcomes, it points to a weakness in the cause and effect that pushes the story forward. And I think that gets at Headland's true weakness as a writer and director. Thanks for the comment!
Hi I'm back... Okay, as a professional author my input should help... My Fix PART ONE: Never waste time retelling the same story. Episode 3 & 7 were functionally the same except for the point of view. PART TWO: Stop using characters to "tell" things (especially to other characters who already know it) instead of "showing" the viewer. Visuals are far more effective. Speaking of visuals PART THREE: never kill off a vital (and/or popular) character off screen. Fans will definitely want to see that. PART FOUR: Make the fight scenes make sense. Qimir easily takes out a bunch of trained Jedi Knights, but had a hard time beating a tiny Padawan. SMH PART FIVE: Work within the IP's established lore. A Light saber whip? The Force is a thread? Virgin birth before Anakin? PART SIX: Have clear & logical motivations and be consistent with them. Mae & Osha both kept switching goals, wasting precious screen time going back and forth. Even the "mother" trying to kill one daughter to save the other even though neither were at risk of death was ridiculous.
Disney could have fix it by firing Headland, The writers room and anyone that thought that was a good idea. Kennedy stepping down as CEO of Lucasfilm's. We might add Disney sell it to someone that really care and understands SW, but I guess that would be ask for too much 😅
Disclaimer, I don’t like fan fiction and it usually comes off exactly how Leslie’s The Acolyte turned out, but this was really a tremendous job. I saw all the patches people tried doing to this show and this was far and away the most elegant one. With that said I would say they still need to keep OSHA leaving with Qimir and Mae being found because of the memory wipe. And also since you mentioned the great idea of Sol telling both girls the truth, I think it in the moment it should have been Mae who actually tried defending Sol because it was after all her who was turning into a smoke plume, and the idea that somebody actually did care enough to try and save her would have struck a nerve and changed her mind. Because another thing they did wrong is on the bridge they should have made Mae actively try and resists Sol help and since she has some force sensitivity it would have made sense, her saying like get off me and pushing herself away, so he just decides to grab OSHA. Overall great job.
Also great point in that it should have been Yoda summoning Vernestra, who should have started by saying something like I see you have returned from vacation or the inner core, to show Yoda was not around for the events, and have Yoda say as you stated say , “Problem, we have?” I can even see in my head Vernestra reaction as her jaw would initially drop then quickly set back into her resting mean face as her eyes narrow questioningly like the face a kid makes when they are trying to discern how their parents found out about their shenanigans at school.
Yeah, I agree. There were a few different ways they could have handled Osha and Mae to land in the same place. What I really like about your suggestion is the idea of having Sol actually show her (Mae) he cares and how that would impact her since a lot of time anger is the external form of internal pain and sadness. That would have been a nice solution. Qimir is actually my favorite character in the show, and what I love about your suggestion is that it would give Osha a really solid reason to leave with Qimir. It's obvious he is lonely (and I don't mean in a sexual way like so many other people say). He misses the bond of master and padawan, and that loss scarred him as much as the marks on his back... and I did see the connection he felt with Osha, which I think had as much to do with her time with the Jedi as her potential to be his apprentice (or partner). I would have been happy with these solutions that you made. Sadly, the best solutions that I have seen suggested (like yours as well as mine) seem to all stem from Sol telling both girls the truth, and it's unfortunate that Headland didn't choose that path because she could have ended exactly in the same spot with the season while producing a much more compelling story.
Why in the flashback, when Mae interrupts the Jedi/Witch debate.. she asks for help from her mothers and the first thing they do is go on the offensive?? Instead of maybe… asking her what’s wrong!
Thanks! I'm glad you liked them, and I totally agree. When studios put us in the role of quality control, they are going to get these massive negative responses... which doesn't help them at all. And, seriously, put some of that money into people who can push back on bad ideas.
Look, I know you guys need content, but she is doing what she was told, destroy lucas' star wars any way possible. And she happily did that. And will happily continue. We have 3 originals so there is that.
🙂 Naw. I'm not monetized. I don't have ads for making money or anything like that. I just do these videos for fun so that I can talk about movies and TV shows with people like you. Yeah. I do wonder if she got the green light to do whatever she wanted to do with the series because they are tired of writing within the rules of the universe. I dunno. 🤷♀ But it sure is annoying. Thanks for stopping by.
Assuming that the Jedi fall, the story has to show cracks. It has to show the beginnings and that rules out a standard star wars story. However, a balanced plot could have over the course of a couple series made a case. So that even if the Jedi fall, the writers could show the cost or arrive at a point where the Jedi are in collapse, but even as they fall, they're preparing for the eventual counter strike. I was thinking about how to paint someone in a positive light (or as needed) while they lose. I haven't seen it, but I descriptions of the film Calvary seem like they might apply. Another character I thought about was David Thewlis in Kingdom of Heaven. I think his sympathetic character dies horribly in a conflict that he knew to be a mistake, but he still presents as brave and honourable. Ultimately, The Acolyte needed a sympathetic Jedi to survive the season to soften the season. Mae isn't that. As is, the Jedi are corrupt and incompetent. For Mae to be sympathetic, they needed to develop her redemption and not have her covering for Osha - who is becoming a student of an evil psychopath. I think a somewhat faithful 3 season arc should be the Jedi lose (and can't set off their alarm bells that should have been ringing), but make a compelling case for justice and hope. It's a bummer, but it would have something to offset the darkness. If Jecki had just been really, really seriously injured, then they could have brought her back for season 2 as a somewhat sympathetic character who would have had to struggle with anger and saying consistent in the aftermath of the murder of Sol.
100% Exactly. Ending a season with ZERO heroes standing and none on the horizon, in a franchise that is built on heroes, is just madness. I love your idea that Jecki should have just been grievously wounded... not dead. Other than Sol, she was the best of them.... and they corrupted Sol and killed off Jecki. 🙄
While I basically agree with the points which you bring up, I have my doubts that this would ever happen inside this Dismay corporation of today and with Headland as showrunner. First three main reasons, Headland COULD NOT fix it: - She has no talent - she does only care about her messaging, not Star Wars - with no talents except the actor of Saul (Sol?) at the set, she has nothing to make this work -- including the writers. And last, one reason why she WOULD NOT fix it: After all I have seen from this show, the interviews with Headland and some of the actors, I am convinced, that Headland would not fix this show, particularly not in the direction you did point. In one interview Hadland even said, that the death of Sol was that way, because she wanted to show, that women have to get rid of "benign sexism". What is that? It is the "over-caring" of parents or similar people about grown up women. Basically those flaws which you indicated are the main points that Headland wants to make. She rejects normal family behavior. She rejects civilized behavior of people in favor of doing what "feels right" and what does fit her agenda. She adheres obviously to a very militant form of emancipation -- that is her message and that is all about "Power" and good and evil are just matters of perspective. So, the morale mess of the show is not by incident, but it is fully intended.
I've been thinking about your mention of the "benign sexism" and I find that such a strange comment for Headland (or anyone) to make. I think it's natural for people to want to help other people and to care for other people in ways that have nothing to do with sex, sexuality, or gender.... It's human and I think it's probably the most basic aspect of being human - to care for others. If we have to stop caring for people based on the fact that their gender doesn't align with our own, how is that going to impact our humanity? ... but I am getting way too philosophical here. I guess what I am trying to say is that I would just love natural and organic human emotions and reactions in my stories, and Sol's did not feel natural to who he was as a character (at least who he was presented to us to be as a character, which is why those choices didn't work).
@@ErinUnderwood It was exactly that philosophical question, why I completely reject the acolyte. I think, the messaging has the potential to harm society and we are just lucky that the creators have no talent and are not able to present a convincing story-line. I do not know, if Headland is doing it intentionally or if she has just so many psychological problems from her youth that she wants to work on in this show. The result is the same: A convoluted messaging, that is the complete opposite for what Star Wars once did stand for.
That's one of the things that bothers me. It's like saying that studios can just toss out whatever kind of crappy story because marginalized people will just be happy to get anything. What kind of philosophy is that? ... sigh... but that's kind of what this season felt like to me.
Why does Sol need to be restored to "flawed character"? What did the character do wrong? He lied to Osha? Not so fast - he was evasive, on orders. We also don't know enough about Osha's time in the Jedi Order to understand exactly what their relationship was. Mae is a mystery. The show needs to stick to characters being light, or dark, but having conflicting motivations and memory. But the moral framework needs to be clear.
Re: Sol. I just don't think "lying, deceptive, blame-gaming, etc" traits really capture who his character was supposed to be in this story. It's fine to give him flaws, but what they did to him really didn't make that much sense. I think covering up the lie and then coming clean in episode 1 would have (should have?) been the extent of it for Sol. Yeah, one of the things that I didn't get into was the utter lack of history that was kept from us about how Mae survived for all of those years and what Osha's life was like after she left to train with the Jedi. Those were formative years that made Osha and Mae into who they were and we barely got even a few lines of exposition to address it. If they had shown the episodes in chronological order this would have been exposed as a huge gap, and I am sure that's one of the reasons they switched the episodes around. I agree. In this storyverse, we need heroes and villains as anchors. It's fine to have ambiguous people in the middle, but stories without anchors in Star Wars are more like those annoying plastic bags left on the street that gets swept up by the wind and blown in any which direction. Thanks for the comment! I like your suggestions!
@@ErinUnderwood totally. I think the moral equivocation is the central flaw of the storytelling. It is possible in SW to have strong light and dark principal characters, and devious, dastardly, and plain bad ones in the middle - the Hutts, and - ooh here's an idea - the rest of Dooku's gang: a side story about the Banking Clan would be fun. CW already did some stuff with the Pykes. Anyway, they need to get this right to re-establish the narrative universe - they've made a hash of Thrawn already, and I fear how nerfed they will make Abeloth. The Devouring Mother DOES need to be demonstrably, plainly, and completely evil, as a primal force. I liked your take.
it seems like Leslie cited too many sources for inspiration and doesn't fully understand any of them. I've heard Rashomon, Kill Bill, Frozen Fight club, and a murder mystery ( and a "shipping" fan fic). She also really had an agenda and that took precedence over the story's characters. To tell her same terrible story, just present it in a way that audiences may have enjoyed more. As you said May and Osha should have shared memories. Every time Osha wakes up, then have the camera tilt ( in the current show that was made, not my version). That effect makes no sense, because nothing was ever tied to it. Osha should have remembered every time May killed someone . Like a nightmare, but she knows who the people are. Then when she discovers they are dead, her and the audience wonders if she killed them. Headland wanted a mystery but she revealed almost immediately they were twins. If she wanted a mystery then she should have let that linger longer. I think that poor "who done it" or "why they done it" mystery and May not knowing the identity of her master is too much on the story pile. If she really REALLY wanted to have the master be a Mystery so the Q'mir actor can have some fun scenes or for a different reason, then she should have presented it differently like this ( though as the story was presented there was no story reason for May not to know the identity of her Master) Qmir seems to have a fast travel ability, like that smoke thing the witches do. He got into the mining compound and got away from the leg trap may set for him and killed kalnacca. That hinted to me, he has a special ability ( or it would if I didnt also know the show runners dont know Star Wars lore and just do stuff willy nilly) maybe he can seem to be in two places at once so we don't automatically know that actor is the master. HELL, Hire a voice actor to do the masters voice like Kiefer Sutherland did in phone booth. He would do the voice when the mask is on. This gives you a secret master Character and we think that will be a reveal for later. I dont think they need two separate planets. I havent played out all the nuances of each, but I think that you can use Brendok as the only planet in the show, not the planet that Kalnacca was on. In Star Wars planets are identified by one sole feature. water, planet, desert planet, forest planet. it doesnt make sense. Just have Kolnacca be on the other side of the planet in the forest. It would make teh symbols he was writing on his wall make a little more sense. Could also explain why the mine was NOT 100% the way it was left after the fire ( that can still be the case, if Kolnacca went there before going on his forest sabbatical, but that would make it a little clearer. I would have the site of the Force nexus/ convergence at the mine mask life readings and/or have a dedicated group of witches, that all they do it put up a screen so they aren't detected. I would have an actor mention the strain it puts them under. So when they die after being pushed out of kalnaccas mind, it makes more sense. They wee already under a great strain. Taking over the Jedi's mind was too much for them ( unless they didnt die). That would explain why the jedi were on a planet for a month and they did not know the witches were there. The witches would know the Jedi were there though ( I think they may have, if you go back to early conversations between the two mothers.) The flash back should have been one episode in length, not two devoted completely to it and that 35-45 minutes of flashing back, should have been split and placed in other episodes with other stuff happening so you dont drag your show to a halt. They also should have been in reverse order ( but due to agenda they weren't). The first Flashback should have been from Sol's perspective and he should have seen the kids receive rough treatment and believe they' re in danger if the Jedi dont remove the kids from the situation immediately. The second flashback would be the completed scenes where you see that they arent being abused. They are being spoiled rotten in a society where they are the only two children with all women and they are also their future leaders. Sol misunderstood Chastisement for leaving the city without permission and a training seminar. Sorry I wrote so much. it would take a whole Yoututbe video to do this over properly I guess. I don't know what assurances Kathleen Kennedy made to Leslie headland, but it was foolhardy of her to leave so many dangling threads in the first season of a show. That JJ Abrams Mystery box method is just bad writing on its own. Stop bait and switching your audiences. She wrote herself into a boring corner if there is a second season. The second season would only be interesting if they did flashbacks to Qmirs master, the origin of thw witches and the planet they were run away from. Nothing with the MC is interesting to me and she is a very wooden actor, BUT when you didn't have to audition and you're told the show is written around you... A funny thing happened while I was watching. I began to imagine how the show would be, where instead of Leslie Headlands wife's terrible acting as the green Jedi master , it was Meryl Streep. Made her terrible scenes more fun.
What I would give to have Meryl Streep play the Evil Green Jedi Lady! That would have been amazing. Great comments. I just keep shaking my head over Kathleen Kennedy's inability to lead with critical thinking that is protective of the IP that sustains her.
I am at heart a pragmatist , so I very much agree season 1 wasn't perfect but the concept was a good one. Master Sol character he's a good man torchered by event's that got out of hand because of a mistake. No more flashbacks continue with the story from that point forward. Hope isn't an issue with the story it's passion, regret and revenge all paths to the dark side. It might have been better if the sisters were 1 is born as 2, after which one is more aligned to the dark but the other the light but at this point you don't know which. You only find out after the force choke. To say that the Jedi are infallible , nothing gets past them doesn't make sense. No-one foresaw general order 66. Ankins curption to the Sith was also unforseen. Palpatine although not trusted no-one suspects he's a Sith dark lord. It's only when it's too late did the Jedi act. I've deliberately left green evil Jedi as I do think there's a possibility of a twist that could be exploited in season 2. I do think better directions would do wonders for the show. But it should be clear this show is about the Sith or Dark Jedi. Season 2 if it happens should be all out Sith .
Hmmm ... I like that. It's not about Hope... it's about regret. That's nice! The series is definitely about Dark Jedi or Sith. I think that's spot on, but the direction was a muddy mess. If they had started there, started with Qimir and Mae and let us get to know them a bit more, I think THAT would have solidified the focus for the series. Instead, they quickly shift to the Jedi and we automatically gravitate to them. I think you are right that better direction would have done wonders for the show!
The CRAZY thing is Leslie Headland has been quoted as saying she handed the script in to Kathleen Kennedy and she gave it back and said. rewrite it. i want YOUR STAR WARS. I dont know what that first script was, but we know who to blame for this mess.
Hahahaha! Some day AI will be doing these types of videos. That will be a sad day! ... At least an AI would probably know how to pronounce Aristotelian, which I can never do. Haha! Thanks for the comment. 🙂
Sadly, the Lucasfilm writing team are intent on making the Jedi seem incompetent and not the noble 'guardians of peace' George Lucas described them as.
@@ErinUnderwood I just discovered your channel yesterday and have been binge-watching all of your videos since. As a lifelong Star Wars fan (in my late 40's) I just wanted to say I really appreciate your analysis within your content!
Yes, and if the Jedi really are all feckless losers, what's the point of writing about them in the first place? They're obviously not worth anyone's time.
@@r1ck00sharma Thank you so much! Today has been a really hard day at work, and I just found this comment.... and it brightened my day immensely. 🙂 I am so glad you are here and that you found my channel. ☀
It’s pronounced “air-is-toe-TEE-lee-an.” Hope is not a theme. It is in a layman’s sense, but a theme in the sense that professional writers use is a centralized idea that is expressed in a single sentence, is the main reason the writer is telling the story, expresses their personal beliefs about the world, and predicts the ending. The theme that Headland was writing from, consciously or not, was “Exploring one’s emotions, even dark ones, is permissible even if society rejects you for it.” It’s probably from her grappling with being gay when she was younger. Every character in The Acolyte reflects this theme: Mae gives into the dark side at the beginning and kills Jedi in broad daylight. Sol is adamant to acquire a padawan even at the risk of his standing with the Jedi. The witches indulge their dark arts on an isolated planet where they cannot be judged. Qimir hides who he truly is and just wants freedom. Osha finally gives in to the dark side by killing Sol. Mae can’t be redeemed because it would contradict the theme so her mind is wiped. The green Jedi whips Qimir and hides it. Torbin indulges in his dark memories and commits suicide. The problem with this is it means none of the characters are heroic and all give into their base desires, leaving the audience with no clear protagonist and a failed story. Great video.
Agreed. There's no moral or ethical premise behind the story, aside from "flying your freak flag," and you really need some sort of core belief to make the story make sense, let alone be interesting and inspiring. There's simply no point to it otherwise.
OMG, @JustinTrudeau1971 You are the best and the only person who noted the pronunciation. You get the gold star today!!! Yes, you're right that hope isn't necessarily a theme, but I think it is an overriding feeling that we get when we watch a Star Wars story... even if it's burried. There should still be some sense of a connection to the larger story that is tied to the core films which are all about "a new hope." However, like you say, the muddle with every character having a dark storyline or giving into their base desires or being corrupt in some way .... or just being killed off if they are too "good" like Jeckie ... leaves us with nobody to attach to as an audience that is looking for a protagonist to root for..... There had to be a dozen different things they could have done to fix that problem. Thanks so much for your comment. I loved it!
The Acolyte Rating 3/10 So Many problems and questions…. My first question is who approved this script? We have finished the series and I have no idea what any of the characters motivations were. May wants to kill the Jedi, then wants to turn herself in, then doesn’t want to turn herself in. She knew her sister was alive in Episode 2 but then travelled to the Wookie’s planet to assassinate him instead of searching out her sister. Who are we supposed to be routing for? The witches are horrible. The Jedi are horrible. The sith is really interesting but are we supposed to root for the murderer. When Yord died, I laughed. The only one I cared about was Jecki and that was due to the actress Dafne Keen. That is really sad after all these episodes of the series. I am a gay man and I love a powerful female hero, but this is really embarrassing. This last episode…. “We will just tell the council that “Mae started the fire” “… in episode 3 I thought someone must have said something. After watching episode 7 no one ever tells them that Mae started the fire? How did they know when Osha wakes up?... they must have read the script. This is the worst possible crime you can do as a writer and this isn’t the first time in this series. The entire series is like listening to a 5 year old tell a story… and then, and then, and then. Have you noticed that Osha who is supposed to be the hero”?” has no agency. She is always taken to her destination or wakes up at her destination. I have zero investment in these characters (even less after episode 7). So many questions…. Why does stone burn in this Universe? What was Osha/Mae’s mother try to achieve turning into a smoke monster? Why are the witches good guys… You mind raped a Padawan? Why do the Jedi break in to the fortress instead of knocking on the door? Why make Mae and Osha part of a convergence? Why do force super powers come and go when your script needs it? So many questions? A lot of this I would just let slide, but when your entire series is like this, it is impossible to ignore If you compare this to Buffy the Vampire Slayer - Season 4 - The Body, had one of the best character death in television history. A minor show character went out with an emotional tsunami. After all these years, I still cannot watch this episode without bawling like a baby. Even just thinking about this episode all these years later still makes me tear up. The most impactful scene has no dialog. When Buffy tells her sister and you see it through the art class window. A true masterclass in emotional writing. Not cluttering up a scene with words when actions carry the most impact. Every person in the audience has experience this once in their life making the scene an emotional atomic bomb instead of a punch. Not every series episode can be “The Body” or Game of Thrones “The Red Wedding” but Star Wars has fallen into “Oh Lightsabers” everyone clap type of laziness. Buffy the Vampire Slayer “The Body” took ten episodes of carefully build up the stakes and story lines for the characters death. Last question $180 Million dollars for 8 half hour episodes? Where did the money go? It didn’t appear on the screen. Syfy’s The Expanse cost 3 to 8 million per episode for one hour episodes and it looked better than this series. The money definitely didn’t go to the writers. And these excuses of “Corporate Interference” just don’t wash for such a large IP. Why was a show put into production without a completed script? I think the frustration of Star Wars fans is mediocre production after mediocre production with imbecilic or non-existing scrips. The final three films are a perfect example…. Who goes into a $800 million movie series with no finalized story plan, and shooting scripts for the three final movies? Yes if something doesn’t work in the first movie you can still revise, but you keep the main story beats. Episode 1 & 2 of The Acolyte showed some promise… Episode 3 it started to fall off of the rails…. Episode 4 I started to watch just to see how bad this train wreck was going to be. Thank goodness the episodes were short… any longer and I would have dropped this show and never finished it!
Great points. BTW, I didn't watch the show, but I've watched summaries and reviews, and I'm wondering: What's the actual point of the witch coven commune? Are they just living together because they're all lesbians who can't bear the presence of men, or do they actually DO anything out there?
@@Venejan I think the only reason it was female/lesbian witches was to draw parallels and sympathy with our history of witch persecution. We know that these women were framed and persecuted because we live in a world without this type of magic. But this does not work in a Universe of true magic (The Force/Thread) and the witches and Jedi both do some very sketchy things. How to reasonably get rid of men and make some sense. Both sides look like idiots... witches for the first attach on the Jedi (you can't set up that people avoid and are incredibly uncomfortable about being brain raped and then have the witches go and do it) and the Jedi for breaking in? You couldn't knock on the door.... Idiots!!! Once you break in, Castle doctrine applies!!! They wanted morally grey characters but made a muddled mess full of absolute fools.
You have asked so many questions that I want answered: Who approved this script and why? What was the approval process like and what was the end goal when the original assignment for the script was green lit? Did anyone do an analysis of "does this script meet the goal?" Where did the money go? 5-6 hours of television should not cost $180 Million in any universe, especially since many of the scenes seemed to take place in similar locations and when they did go to a wild new location, they were using a digital backdrop. One of my neighbors is a carpenter who turns his garage and driveway into a Halloween spectacle each year for a couple thousand dollars and invites people to do walk-throughs... last year he created a magical forest and it was better in scope, detail, and aesthetic than what we saw on the Wookie's planet when the Jedi fought with Qimir. (To be fair, I live next to Salem, MA and people take their Halloween decorations a bit tooooooooo seriously here! LOL!) And, your point about death scenes.... great freakin' examples. The Body, The Red Wedding, even Ben Kenobi's death in Star Wars .... you can find a way to make a death meaningful no matter how large or small the character, and the minute that death becomes meaningless in a Star Wars story (or any story), you have a writing problem. Thanks for the comment. Excellent questions!
@@ErinUnderwood The funny thing is... as my father used to say "These people are getting high off the smell of there own Farts". It is guaranteed that the main creators thought they were making a "Post-Modern Masterpiece". Who ever thought that the Witches ceremony "The power of One, The power of Two, The power of Many" should never work in "Creative Arts" again. The scene was dark, there was no coordination between the witches, there was no visible display of magic. Compare this to "A Discovery of Witches" where the main character has to weave the magic spell with the help of the coven. Each part of the Coven providing an element for the master weave. That scene had life and movement and was visually brilliant!
Nice try. But i guess it will be pretty hard to fix anything here. It would need a new cut, new dubbing here and there and probably some deep fake fixing. First, forget about this vergence nonsense. Wasn't it said, that this vergence was responsible for creating new life on this planet? So what does it have to do with the witches and the girls, who came there much later? Why does anyone need the girls in person to prove this vergence? Then, cut out every reference to the sith. They won't reveal themselves now, this leads to nowhere. Make the girls not changing their minds anytime. A person splitted into two? Fine, remember the classic Star Trek episode "The Enemy Within"? So let Mae be bad, staying bad, possibly staying with Qimir or killing him, and Osha be good and a little weak. And do not let them change places. Concerning Sol and the witches, let Sol say "I sense danger because of dark forces". We all would have bought that. Let Torbin discover some danger and then let them all rush to the rescue. And Aniseya says after beeing stabbed: "I curse you, Jedi! May your best padawan be your doom!". After Koril turns into smoke she absorbes the lifes of the other witches, then goes to Kelnacca, possessing him. There is still more to do, but i guess, it's all in vain discussing it. They won't change it. But i must not forget, your idea for the last scene, that Yoda should have called Vernestra to confess, is brilliant. Yes, the've got a problem, because exactly what the senator said, had happened. How will they get out of it? May be intersting.
Yeah. We can't go back and reproduce the show... it's sad. They will have to do some fancy fancy footwork in Season 2 to fix things, and I just don't think the current writing and directing team is up for that challenge. I really hate the idea of the vergence. I keep calling it the divergence... LOL. And I like your idea of the curse. That would have been a great addition.
The Acolyte is one of the few new shows I've watched in the Star Wars extended universe that I've actually enjoyed. The fandom overall is always r@cist so I tend to stay away from Star Wars content, but my friend (a hardcore Star Wars fan) asked me to watch it and I was impressed with the storytelling. The fact that the writers stepped away from Joseph Campbell/Aristotelian western story structure is a key reason why the series was a success for me, showing characters who embrace their shadow side, thus revealing that the Jedi are a cult no different than any other people striving to make meaning in a world of chaos. I applaud Leslye Headland for daring to subvert the canon and give us something different. The fact that so many problematic fanboys/fangirls are spiraling over this show has me cackling, and I hope there's a season 2 so I can see how characters who embrace their whole shadow selves are the heroes of their own journey. What may look like straying away from the Star Wars thematic throughline of "hope" to some, actually looks like hope for others.
I love your response and I am glad that you enjoyed it. I definitely have my own preferences on keeping with the mythology while also embracing new characters, but if this worked for you and brought you back to Star Wars, then that makes me happy. ❤️
@morganst.claire6944 You lost me at “overall the fandom is always r@cist”………. Stereotype much?………. 😉 Ironic that you can blame r@cism for failure instead of a horrible production that a vast majority of SW fans didn’t like at all………. 🤨
It seems like there were so many small things they could have done to improve things.
The Qimir vs the Jedi fight could have been really interesting if the Jedi recognized the cortosis after the first lightsabers were deactivated and were visually fearful. One of the interesting things about the book Darth Bane: Path of Destruction is that his hilt was curved like Dooku's and it made fighting against him difficult as the angle of his blade was different. One of the Jedi fighting him recognizes it and calls it out, but they still all end up dying, although they almost killed him, which makes that fight just epic.
Have Qimir continue to actually use his strong Force Push, and some Jedi adjust and defend against it, others don't- leaving the fight constantly to a 1-on-2 or something more manageable for the choreography while having it MAKE SENSE. Have the Jedi attempt to use Force Powers and Qimir do a Force Scream that paralyzes some of them, making them vulnerable. That way, he continues to look powerful and dangerous, while the Jedi don't *just* look incompetent.
Love your insights on what could have been done to improve the story and characters. The setup for each makes it incredibly difficult with just how bad the plot itself was written. Ep1 should have been a mostly silent episode where we just follow Master Indara around the small outpost as she helps people, resolves disputes, lifts a broken cart with the force, calms an animal, etc- things that would ingratiate us to the idea that this is a normal Jedi doing normal Jedi things. It should have ended with her being ambushed by a mysterious figure who's face we don't see, and who doesn't speak. That way two things occur: 1. We wonder WHY this seemingly normal and benevolent Jedi is killed, and 2. We wonder who this figure could be, how and why they would kill a Jedi. Episode ends with a shot behind the cloaked figure of Mae walking up to the cloaked figure of Smylo Ren (who's not giving a dumb speech- we never talk about the 'killing a Jedi without a weapon' nonsense- but who IS standing in front of someone on their knees we hear wimpering and saying things like, "I've told you all I know, please please please...") and we just hear her muffled voice say something like, "It's done" or "It's begun" and then Smylo turns his head to the side to acknowledge May before igniting his lightsaber and bringing it down on his captive. Mystery and positive reasoning to show off the red lightsaber while demonstrating the cold ruthlessness of Smylo and an unaffected Mae. Keeps some MYSTERY alive for a touch longer.
Then we could *follow* Osha in parallel going about her work. Don't have the Jedi arrive immediately to arrest her. Have her have terrible dreams about the death of Jedi. Back on Coruscant, have an *actual* investigation into Master Indara's death. They can then have Sol imply he might know some deeper reason for the attack, but he's unsure as he can't be sure of any connection to the events on Brendok yet. They go through known threats- people, groups with a vendetta against the Jedi, etc- then they move on to Jedi that are missing or not in contact. Kelnacca even becomes a suspect possibly. They consider former or failed padawans and THAT's where Osha comes up. Maybe she's the only one they can't account for, so Sol offers to go find her.
Go from there. Sol finds Osha, she tells him about the terrible nightmares, Sol tells her the truth about what happened on Brendok and together they start to wonder if Mae is actually still alive. Everything you mention character-wise follows nicely from something as simple as this.
Anyway, I could rant for DAYS on the lost potential of this show. Thanks for your insight and patience.
Yes. Yes!! If they had just set about tackling as many of the small story problems as possible, it would have elevated the series. Would it have made the series "good?" I don't know, but it would have made it better.
I love your suggestions for Qimir. He was basically the best character in this series, but even still they could have made him so much better! Great suggestions.
Also, I like your suggestions for how they could have started the series. It would have made us care a little about these characters before the action started. I get the impulse to start with a lightsaber fight and a dead Jedi, but why in the world would you spend Carrie Ann Moss that way and so quickly. She's amazing and they wasted her.
So much lost potential! Thanks for sharing!
I like showing Indira earlier. As it was, we barely got enough time with her. WE got more time with jekki and the boring rules jedi before they were killed.
@@doro626 I loved her, honestly. I wanted more. It was such a waste to have her in ..... what? .... 5 minutes of the episode before killing her off? That was my first tip off that they didn't understand the show, fandom, or the actors they had cast.
Deep, thoughtful, and complex, yet so well explained it just sounds Awesome. Thank You!
Thank you!! as always, you are a ray of sunshine.
Modern Star Trek has the same writing problem : reinvented to serve an ego rather than continued to serve a story. Landing a job in an established world isn't the time to leave your mark - it's the time to earn that right. It's like taking a car to be repaired and when you pick it up? they've pimped it out with musical horns, go-faster stripes and huge logos for their business.
Modern Star Trek basically reinvented itself so that it could essentially retell the same stories to a new audience rather than just expanding the universe and furthering the creation. I find it baffling that they would erase their own history and turn their story logic into "Soup of the Day" storytelling.
@@ErinUnderwood - You know far better than me - but I do feel the shape of it. Dare I say "The Orville" suggests producers could be doing a lot more to shape these shows too.
I should just read books :)
@ErinUnderwood I'm sorry but how can green Jedi lady blame Sol anyway. He was on Courscant teaching Jedi kids when Trinity was killed. There's witnesses both to that killing and to her where Torbin was killed. The accusation makes no sense from her POV. Why not simply say it was Osha in revenge for being expelled like they first thought it was ?
@@JohnnyWednesday reading books is always a good idea! 🙂
@@geraintthatcher3076 I agree totally. She's a total "blame gamer" and I think she has a long history of pulling together elaborate ruses to cover her a__. It would be tricky, but I am sure she can figure something out.
Awesome perspective and by far better than what we got. Subscribed!
Awww! Thanks. 🙂 You just made my Saturday even better. THank you! I'm so glad you found my video and my channel.
I miss George Lucas 😭
I remember watching Force Awakens in theaters and my head told me its not Star Wars. Didnt sink into me until I saw the shows. There is no hope for this franchise
😭 I still have Hope... but it's hurting. It really is...
@@ErinUnderwood I'm just hoping they course correct it. They might have to restart everything because it's not panning out. I've recently started reading the Expanded Universe and I highly recommend those as good reads
@@tedoyle99 Just like 'there are only 2 Terminator movies', and 'there are only 2 Alien movies'', I have now accepted 'there are only 6 Star Wars movies'
@@r1ck00sharma Exactly
@@r1ck00sharma you know... I could talk Terminator and Alien all day long! I like your taste in films.
Before I finish this, I’m going to leave my idea on how to fix this here. I wonder if there will be any overlap? :)
Disney/Hedland could have written this show to better explain how the Jedi were unprepared to face the return of the Sith, the downfall of Anakin, and the rise of the Empire. Hedland’s portrayal of incompetence, immorality, and corruption within the Jedi is so careless and disconnected from the premises of the prequels: If anything, the Jedi had become complacent and unimaginative after centuries without proper adversaries. This show should have portrayed the Order as officious, inflexible, overly religious, and nearly ceremonial. Imagine something like the Shaolin temple, a place once focused on developing and preserving martial arts, creating a cadre of warrior monks to defend temples in times of strife, and reconciling all of that with Buddhism.
The Shaolin temple existed for hundreds of years, but to a degree lost touch with its original purpose as the Chinese Imperial state provided peace and Buddhism became near enough the state religion. Over time, the warrior monks of Shaolin came to codify their practices as a form of meditation instead of martial arts, tai chi or “chi kung” instead of “kung fu,” energy work instead of fist work, and were ultimately just as susceptible to Maoist reforms as the rest of Imperial, mandarin China, outlawed and put to the torch.
The Jedi needn’t be shown as conniving or corrupt, merely surprised and unprepared after centuries of being the most powerful beings around. Their sin being overconfidence still fits with many of the ideas in the Acolyte. In fact, it makes more sense than Hedland’s “nefarious super police:” the paduans and masters could be shown doing light saber kata in the temple, performing these rote moves instead of sparring and assessing only the degree to which the kata, the forms, were adhered to. When the Jedi team then face the Sith guy, they could be shown doing these moves and flips in unison, perfect but rigid, and meant more to intimidate those who cannot use the Force. “Smilo,” it is revealed, was taught by someone who remembers true saber combat, Plagueis, and this explains how one person could possibly defeat six Jedi.
The contrast between the rigid and dogmatic Jedi, so sure of their strength and place in this world, with the terrible effectiveness of Smilo would be a genuine draw to someone who lost faith in the Jedi and someone who wanted revenge. The Jedi ask that you subsume yourself to this greater good while the Sith suggest that one or two could make more impact than an order which had become rulebound and inflexible. The Jedi rightly stopped “their mothers,” while perhaps the Sith would have thought of something different.
The Jedi could still be motivated by goodness and justice and the green gal saying “we need to talk” to Yoda would make still make sense. Then later, it could be shown that Yoda was urging that the Jedi be ready for all this while the Council was complacent because sparring with weapons was “of the dark side” or whatever. The later seasons could be the sort-of remilitarization of the Jedi that would lead to Qui Gon, but that undercurrent of overconfidence could be the through-line to the Prequels.
Hmmmm….. I love your ideas and wish they were my own! 😂
@@ErinUnderwood - Wow, that’s such a kind thing to say and lovely to hear! I’ve genuinely appreciated your take on this series, as so much of the discourse has been from guys who are clearly a bit bitter about Disney SW in general. Not that they have zero right to be, but assessing shortcomings specifically, like storytelling or character-building, and bringing different perspectives to bear is, I dunno, more useful criticism? Which is to say that the missteps of Disney SW are legion, surely, but I think competent storytelling and creating interesting and compelling characters would have gone a long way toward limiting this dissent. I myself took issue with “the force awakens” though I thought it looked and sounded amazing, but I was definitely in the minority. People were excited and ready for Star Wars and clearly willing to overlook any shortcomings; Disney would do well to recall that those very same fans were labeled as all sorts of negatives after their films started to disappoint. Fans want to like the things they’re fans of, yet Disney/Lucas would now tell those fans they’re wrong for their opinions. It’s so odd.
I love how you respect the religious aspect of the Jedi. it was also wise to parallel a real world example to keep the story on the rails.
Yes, that was a complaint I had. How is the High Republic different from the phantom menace republic? Maybe even tie the separatist agenda into it. The witches follow Separatist ideals.
@@doro626 - Thank you! And YES, I love the idea of using storylines like the Acolyte as not just connective tissue between other storylines, vehicles for cameos, or fan service because “oh wow, that’s how come Leia wears her hair in those buns,” but to better explain things like the nature of and values which underlie the separatist movement. They should be telling good stories with great characters to add subtlety and meaning to conflicts in SW and not to “educate SW fans about identity issues in Hollywood” or to set an unsophisticated and chaste, nearly-immoral Young Adult “will they, won’t they?” story in the SW milieu.
I say immoral not because of the “identities” of the characters, but by having the “good” protagonist fall instantly into lust with a person who has just murdered friends of hers, all after suggesting that the affront which drove these two characters for years was the death of people they cared about. Giving characters meant to resonate with (I assume) young women plastic and arbitrary morals is lame, especially when invoking themes of judgment, excuses vs. justifications, and revenge: “The man who saved my life and raised me, someone motivated only by compassion and love, possibly made a mistake when defending me from my mother’s black magic and she died from it. For this, as he kneels before me asking for my forgiveness, I must execute him. But the guy whom I’ve just witnessed murdering my colleagues and friends, who has effectively kidnapped me, and who also wields black magic? Well, he’s pretty and cut and, hey - you know what they say about ‘bad boys!’”
Anyway, to your point, I never really understood the reasoning and all the machinations in the Phantom Menace. Lucas tends to present things in simplistic ways and from limited perspectives, which is fine when one has only so much time in a film. But it would be so awesome if shows like this helped us to better understand issues glossed over in the prequels or, as in my idea, flesh-out the morality and tenets of factions like the Jedi - like, I don’t need to know what Plageuis looks like or how the Jedi wore their identical robes and their formal dresses with the symbol from Luke’s helmet on them.
@@doro626 You know, I kind of love the idea of diving into a religion that is not force related. I think that would have been cool ... or have it be tangentially force related. Show us some kind of faith rather than witchcraft or whatever... I think so many more people could have gotten into that angle of the show... Then just make the girls identical twins who are strong in the force and drop all of the vergence nonsense. There were so many different options they could have chosen that would have added unique flavors to the story world that would not have gone up against established lore....
Well said. I enjoyed your take on trying to fix the Acolyte..but I also agreed with your decision that Headland isn’t the person to do it. You can just tell that season two would be more of the same convolution ending in Mae or Osha redeeming themselves… But that kind of ending wouldn’t be satisfactory to me. The Jedi have been treated too poorly in season 1. The first killed by a knife - distracted by blocking a knife that would have killed a bystander, a Jedi committing suicide (wtf), a Wookie Jedi being ‘mind- raped’ by the space witches (an expression I heard elsewhere) and then killed not even from behind but while sitting in a chair (wtf) and then finally Soul who is murdered by his adopted daughter figure/padawan and accepting his fate (which is another way of acknowledging his guilt)… The who is good, who is bad was too poorly done for this show to be given a second chance, and you can guess that Disney’s warped take on the real world isn’t going to equate to a palatable outcome for the SW universe (that once was..). Bin it or spin it..? I choose bin it.. :(
You have helped me to conceptualize a problem that I have been having with the deaths of all of the Jedi in this series. None of the deaths truly felt earned. They were all too easy (which reminds me of Princess Leia telling Han Solo that their escape from the Death Star was too easy). The difference here is that for Han, Leia, and Luke, Vader set up the easy escape so that they could track the Falcon back to the rebel base. There is no realistic reason for why the Jedi's death (from the 4 who confronted the witches plus all of the others who Qimir killed) were so very easy to out maneuver and kill. If "guilt" is the reason the 4 jedi were so easy to kill.... why was it so easy to kill all of the others?
When there is no logic to back up the outcomes, it points to a weakness in the cause and effect that pushes the story forward. And I think that gets at Headland's true weakness as a writer and director.
Thanks for the comment!
Perfect analysis!
Thanks!! 🙂
Hi I'm back... Okay, as a professional author my input should help... My Fix PART ONE: Never waste time retelling the same story. Episode 3 & 7 were functionally the same except for the point of view. PART TWO: Stop using characters to "tell" things (especially to other characters who already know it) instead of "showing" the viewer. Visuals are far more effective. Speaking of visuals PART THREE: never kill off a vital (and/or popular) character off screen. Fans will definitely want to see that. PART FOUR: Make the fight scenes make sense. Qimir easily takes out a bunch of trained Jedi Knights, but had a hard time beating a tiny Padawan. SMH PART FIVE: Work within the IP's established lore. A Light saber whip? The Force is a thread? Virgin birth before Anakin? PART SIX: Have clear & logical motivations and be consistent with them. Mae & Osha both kept switching goals, wasting precious screen time going back and forth. Even the "mother" trying to kill one daughter to save the other even though neither were at risk of death was ridiculous.
I love these comments. Yes. Exactly, all of the way down the line. Thank you! 🙂
Disney could have fix it by firing Headland, The writers room and anyone that thought that was a good idea. Kennedy stepping down as CEO of Lucasfilm's. We might add Disney sell it to someone that really care and understands SW, but I guess that would be ask for too much 😅
If only we had a time machine and could go back and help change their minds.
Disclaimer, I don’t like fan fiction and it usually comes off exactly how Leslie’s The Acolyte turned out, but this was really a tremendous job. I saw all the patches people tried doing to this show and this was far and away the most elegant one.
With that said I would say they still need to keep OSHA leaving with Qimir and Mae being found because of the memory wipe.
And also since you mentioned the great idea of Sol telling both girls the truth, I think it in the moment it should have been Mae who actually tried defending Sol because it was after all her who was turning into a smoke plume, and the idea that somebody actually did care enough to try and save her would have struck a nerve and changed her mind. Because another thing they did wrong is on the bridge they should have made Mae actively try and resists Sol help and since she has some force sensitivity it would have made sense, her saying like get off me and pushing herself away, so he just decides to grab OSHA.
Overall great job.
Also great point in that it should have been Yoda summoning Vernestra, who should have started by saying something like I see you have returned from vacation or the inner core, to show Yoda was not around for the events, and have Yoda say as you stated say , “Problem, we have?”
I can even see in my head Vernestra reaction as her jaw would initially drop then quickly set back into her resting mean face as her eyes narrow questioningly like the face a kid makes when they are trying to discern how their parents found out about their shenanigans at school.
Yeah, I agree. There were a few different ways they could have handled Osha and Mae to land in the same place. What I really like about your suggestion is the idea of having Sol actually show her (Mae) he cares and how that would impact her since a lot of time anger is the external form of internal pain and sadness. That would have been a nice solution.
Qimir is actually my favorite character in the show, and what I love about your suggestion is that it would give Osha a really solid reason to leave with Qimir. It's obvious he is lonely (and I don't mean in a sexual way like so many other people say). He misses the bond of master and padawan, and that loss scarred him as much as the marks on his back... and I did see the connection he felt with Osha, which I think had as much to do with her time with the Jedi as her potential to be his apprentice (or partner).
I would have been happy with these solutions that you made. Sadly, the best solutions that I have seen suggested (like yours as well as mine) seem to all stem from Sol telling both girls the truth, and it's unfortunate that Headland didn't choose that path because she could have ended exactly in the same spot with the season while producing a much more compelling story.
Why in the flashback, when Mae interrupts the Jedi/Witch debate.. she asks for help from her mothers and the first thing they do is go on the offensive?? Instead of maybe… asking her what’s wrong!
OMG. I am so glad you mentioned that. Excellent point.
Yup, that would have made the series so much better.
It's the little things that can turn the tide. 🙂 Thanks for the comment, Frank.
I think these fixes are awesome. Strange when us the consumer become the quality controllers for a Multi-billion dollar company.^^
Thanks! I'm glad you liked them, and I totally agree. When studios put us in the role of quality control, they are going to get these massive negative responses... which doesn't help them at all. And, seriously, put some of that money into people who can push back on bad ideas.
i hope they fix all this issues in a 2 season theres a lot of characters interesting in this show
Are there still? The only interesting character still alive for me is Qmir. Jekki, Sol, the three dead jedi murdered by May are all gone.
If they do a season 2, I am hoping they do something interesting with Qimir.
Look, I know you guys need content, but she is doing what she was told, destroy lucas' star wars any way possible. And she happily did that. And will happily continue. We have 3 originals so there is that.
🙂 Naw. I'm not monetized. I don't have ads for making money or anything like that. I just do these videos for fun so that I can talk about movies and TV shows with people like you.
Yeah. I do wonder if she got the green light to do whatever she wanted to do with the series because they are tired of writing within the rules of the universe. I dunno.
🤷♀ But it sure is annoying. Thanks for stopping by.
Assuming that the Jedi fall, the story has to show cracks. It has to show the beginnings and that rules out a standard star wars story. However, a balanced plot could have over the course of a couple series made a case. So that even if the Jedi fall, the writers could show the cost or arrive at a point where the Jedi are in collapse, but even as they fall, they're preparing for the eventual counter strike. I was thinking about how to paint someone in a positive light (or as needed) while they lose. I haven't seen it, but I descriptions of the film Calvary seem like they might apply. Another character I thought about was David Thewlis in Kingdom of Heaven. I think his sympathetic character dies horribly in a conflict that he knew to be a mistake, but he still presents as brave and honourable.
Ultimately, The Acolyte needed a sympathetic Jedi to survive the season to soften the season. Mae isn't that. As is, the Jedi are corrupt and incompetent. For Mae to be sympathetic, they needed to develop her redemption and not have her covering for Osha - who is becoming a student of an evil psychopath. I think a somewhat faithful 3 season arc should be the Jedi lose (and can't set off their alarm bells that should have been ringing), but make a compelling case for justice and hope. It's a bummer, but it would have something to offset the darkness. If Jecki had just been really, really seriously injured, then they could have brought her back for season 2 as a somewhat sympathetic character who would have had to struggle with anger and saying consistent in the aftermath of the murder of Sol.
100% Exactly. Ending a season with ZERO heroes standing and none on the horizon, in a franchise that is built on heroes, is just madness. I love your idea that Jecki should have just been grievously wounded... not dead. Other than Sol, she was the best of them.... and they corrupted Sol and killed off Jecki. 🙄
While I basically agree with the points which you bring up, I have my doubts that this would ever happen inside this Dismay corporation of today and with Headland as showrunner.
First three main reasons, Headland COULD NOT fix it:
- She has no talent
- she does only care about her messaging, not Star Wars
- with no talents except the actor of Saul (Sol?) at the set, she has nothing to make this work -- including the writers.
And last, one reason why she WOULD NOT fix it:
After all I have seen from this show, the interviews with Headland and some of the actors, I am convinced, that Headland would not fix this show, particularly not in the direction you did point.
In one interview Hadland even said, that the death of Sol was that way, because she wanted to show, that women have to get rid of "benign sexism". What is that? It is the "over-caring" of parents or similar people about grown up women. Basically those flaws which you indicated are the main points that Headland wants to make. She rejects normal family behavior. She rejects civilized behavior of people in favor of doing what "feels right" and what does fit her agenda. She adheres obviously to a very militant form of emancipation -- that is her message and that is all about "Power" and good and evil are just matters of perspective.
So, the morale mess of the show is not by incident, but it is fully intended.
I've been thinking about your mention of the "benign sexism" and I find that such a strange comment for Headland (or anyone) to make. I think it's natural for people to want to help other people and to care for other people in ways that have nothing to do with sex, sexuality, or gender.... It's human and I think it's probably the most basic aspect of being human - to care for others. If we have to stop caring for people based on the fact that their gender doesn't align with our own, how is that going to impact our humanity? ... but I am getting way too philosophical here.
I guess what I am trying to say is that I would just love natural and organic human emotions and reactions in my stories, and Sol's did not feel natural to who he was as a character (at least who he was presented to us to be as a character, which is why those choices didn't work).
@@ErinUnderwood It was exactly that philosophical question, why I completely reject the acolyte. I think, the messaging has the potential to harm society and we are just lucky that the creators have no talent and are not able to present a convincing story-line.
I do not know, if Headland is doing it intentionally or if she has just so many psychological problems from her youth that she wants to work on in this show. The result is the same: A convoluted messaging, that is the complete opposite for what Star Wars once did stand for.
The show really was an embarrassment for the people it was supposed to prop up.
That's one of the things that bothers me. It's like saying that studios can just toss out whatever kind of crappy story because marginalized people will just be happy to get anything. What kind of philosophy is that? ... sigh... but that's kind of what this season felt like to me.
it can't be fixed. in season 2 Yoghurt will be evil. Disney will never hire people good enough do deal with it. DisneyStarWars(TM) is dead.
😭 I am afraid you might be right.... but I hope you are wrong... 😭
Why does Sol need to be restored to "flawed character"? What did the character do wrong? He lied to Osha? Not so fast - he was evasive, on orders. We also don't know enough about Osha's time in the Jedi Order to understand exactly what their relationship was. Mae is a mystery.
The show needs to stick to characters being light, or dark, but having conflicting motivations and memory. But the moral framework needs to be clear.
Re: Sol. I just don't think "lying, deceptive, blame-gaming, etc" traits really capture who his character was supposed to be in this story. It's fine to give him flaws, but what they did to him really didn't make that much sense. I think covering up the lie and then coming clean in episode 1 would have (should have?) been the extent of it for Sol.
Yeah, one of the things that I didn't get into was the utter lack of history that was kept from us about how Mae survived for all of those years and what Osha's life was like after she left to train with the Jedi. Those were formative years that made Osha and Mae into who they were and we barely got even a few lines of exposition to address it. If they had shown the episodes in chronological order this would have been exposed as a huge gap, and I am sure that's one of the reasons they switched the episodes around.
I agree. In this storyverse, we need heroes and villains as anchors. It's fine to have ambiguous people in the middle, but stories without anchors in Star Wars are more like those annoying plastic bags left on the street that gets swept up by the wind and blown in any which direction.
Thanks for the comment! I like your suggestions!
@@ErinUnderwood totally. I think the moral equivocation is the central flaw of the storytelling. It is possible in SW to have strong light and dark principal characters, and devious, dastardly, and plain bad ones in the middle - the Hutts, and - ooh here's an idea - the rest of Dooku's gang: a side story about the Banking Clan would be fun. CW already did some stuff with the Pykes. Anyway, they need to get this right to re-establish the narrative universe - they've made a hash of Thrawn already, and I fear how nerfed they will make Abeloth. The Devouring Mother DOES need to be demonstrably, plainly, and completely evil, as a primal force.
I liked your take.
@@mxvega1097 thanks! Yes. Oh, and I totally agree about Abeloth!! 🙂
it seems like Leslie cited too many sources for inspiration and doesn't fully understand any of them. I've heard Rashomon, Kill Bill, Frozen Fight club, and a murder mystery ( and a "shipping" fan fic). She also really had an agenda and that took precedence over the story's characters.
To tell her same terrible story, just present it in a way that audiences may have enjoyed more.
As you said May and Osha should have shared memories. Every time Osha wakes up, then have the camera tilt ( in the current show that was made, not my version). That effect makes no sense, because nothing was ever tied to it. Osha should have remembered every time May killed someone . Like a nightmare, but she knows who the people are. Then when she discovers they are dead, her and the audience wonders if she killed them. Headland wanted a mystery but she revealed almost immediately they were twins. If she wanted a mystery then she should have let that linger longer.
I think that poor "who done it" or "why they done it" mystery and May not knowing the identity of her master is too much on the story pile. If she really REALLY wanted to have the master be a Mystery so the Q'mir actor can have some fun scenes or for a different reason, then she should have presented it differently like this ( though as the story was presented there was no story reason for May not to know the identity of her Master)
Qmir seems to have a fast travel ability, like that smoke thing the witches do. He got into the mining compound and got away from the leg trap may set for him and killed kalnacca. That hinted to me, he has a special ability ( or it would if I didnt also know the show runners dont know Star Wars lore and just do stuff willy nilly) maybe he can seem to be in two places at once so we don't automatically know that actor is the master. HELL, Hire a voice actor to do the masters voice like Kiefer Sutherland did in phone booth. He would do the voice when the mask is on. This gives you a secret master Character and we think that will be a reveal for later.
I dont think they need two separate planets. I havent played out all the nuances of each, but I think that you can use Brendok as the only planet in the show, not the planet that Kalnacca was on. In Star Wars planets are identified by one sole feature. water, planet, desert planet, forest planet. it doesnt make sense. Just have Kolnacca be on the other side of the planet in the forest. It would make teh symbols he was writing on his wall make a little more sense. Could also explain why the mine was NOT 100% the way it was left after the fire ( that can still be the case, if Kolnacca went there before going on his forest sabbatical, but that would make it a little clearer.
I would have the site of the Force nexus/ convergence at the mine mask life readings and/or have a dedicated group of witches, that all they do it put up a screen so they aren't detected. I would have an actor mention the strain it puts them under. So when they die after being pushed out of kalnaccas mind, it makes more sense. They wee already under a great strain. Taking over the Jedi's mind was too much for them ( unless they didnt die). That would explain why the jedi were on a planet for a month and they did not know the witches were there. The witches would know the Jedi were there though ( I think they may have, if you go back to early conversations between the two mothers.)
The flash back should have been one episode in length, not two devoted completely to it and that 35-45 minutes of flashing back, should have been split and placed in other episodes with other stuff happening so you dont drag your show to a halt. They also should have been in reverse order ( but due to agenda they weren't). The first Flashback should have been from Sol's perspective and he should have seen the kids receive rough treatment and believe they' re in danger if the Jedi dont remove the kids from the situation immediately. The second flashback would be the completed scenes where you see that they arent being abused. They are being spoiled rotten in a society where they are the only two children with all women and they are also their future leaders. Sol misunderstood Chastisement for leaving the city without permission and a training seminar.
Sorry I wrote so much. it would take a whole Yoututbe video to do this over properly I guess. I don't know what assurances Kathleen Kennedy made to Leslie headland, but it was foolhardy of her to leave so many dangling threads in the first season of a show. That JJ Abrams Mystery box method is just bad writing on its own. Stop bait and switching your audiences.
She wrote herself into a boring corner if there is a second season. The second season would only be interesting if they did flashbacks to Qmirs master, the origin of thw witches and the planet they were run away from. Nothing with the MC is interesting to me and she is a very wooden actor, BUT when you didn't have to audition and you're told the show is written around you...
A funny thing happened while I was watching. I began to imagine how the show would be, where instead of Leslie Headlands wife's terrible acting as the green Jedi master , it was Meryl Streep. Made her terrible scenes more fun.
What I would give to have Meryl Streep play the Evil Green Jedi Lady! That would have been amazing.
Great comments. I just keep shaking my head over Kathleen Kennedy's inability to lead with critical thinking that is protective of the IP that sustains her.
I am at heart a pragmatist , so I very much agree season 1 wasn't perfect but the concept was a good one.
Master Sol character he's a good man torchered by event's that got out of hand because of a mistake.
No more flashbacks continue with the story from that point forward.
Hope isn't an issue with the story it's passion, regret and revenge all paths to the dark side.
It might have been better if the sisters were 1 is born as 2, after which one is more aligned to the dark but the other the light but at this point you don't know which. You only find out after the force choke.
To say that the Jedi are infallible , nothing gets past them doesn't make sense. No-one foresaw general order 66. Ankins curption to the Sith was also unforseen. Palpatine although not trusted no-one suspects he's a Sith dark lord. It's only when it's too late did the Jedi act.
I've deliberately left green evil Jedi as I do think there's a possibility of a twist that could be exploited in season 2.
I do think better directions would do wonders for the show.
But it should be clear this show is about the Sith or Dark Jedi.
Season 2 if it happens should be all out Sith .
Hmmm ... I like that. It's not about Hope... it's about regret. That's nice!
The series is definitely about Dark Jedi or Sith. I think that's spot on, but the direction was a muddy mess. If they had started there, started with Qimir and Mae and let us get to know them a bit more, I think THAT would have solidified the focus for the series. Instead, they quickly shift to the Jedi and we automatically gravitate to them. I think you are right that better direction would have done wonders for the show!
This rewrite reminds me of how lacking of character development this show was
It's so sad... just a little more character development would have gone a long long way. Both Mae and Osha deserved more.
Disney could’ve “fixed” the script by………
Tossing it in a fire before it went into production……….. 😉
The environmentalists are going to be all over you for releasing carbon into the air. 😉
The CRAZY thing is Leslie Headland has been quoted as saying she handed the script in to Kathleen Kennedy and she gave it back and said. rewrite it. i want YOUR STAR WARS. I dont know what that first script was, but we know who to blame for this mess.
@@doro626 KK is the worst!
Wow a real human being capable of contructive criticism? Doesnt seem possible. Is this AI?????
Hahahaha! Some day AI will be doing these types of videos. That will be a sad day! ... At least an AI would probably know how to pronounce Aristotelian, which I can never do. Haha!
Thanks for the comment. 🙂
Sadly, the Lucasfilm writing team are intent on making the Jedi seem incompetent and not the noble 'guardians of peace' George Lucas described them as.
Yes, Headland and the Disney crew who produced this series have absolutely undermined Lucas's vision. 😥
@@ErinUnderwood I just discovered your channel yesterday and have been binge-watching all of your videos since. As a lifelong Star Wars fan (in my late 40's) I just wanted to say I really appreciate your analysis within your content!
Yes, and if the Jedi really are all feckless losers, what's the point of writing about them in the first place? They're obviously not worth anyone's time.
@@r1ck00sharma Thank you so much! Today has been a really hard day at work, and I just found this comment.... and it brightened my day immensely. 🙂 I am so glad you are here and that you found my channel. ☀
@@Venejan Yea.... I think the point was to make a series about Siths... and they kept making a story about Jedi.... it's all just so confusing.
....well well????
It’s pronounced “air-is-toe-TEE-lee-an.”
Hope is not a theme. It is in a layman’s sense, but a theme in the sense that professional writers use is a centralized idea that is expressed in a single sentence, is the main reason the writer is telling the story, expresses their personal beliefs about the world, and predicts the ending. The theme that Headland was writing from, consciously or not, was “Exploring one’s emotions, even dark ones, is permissible even if society rejects you for it.” It’s probably from her grappling with being gay when she was younger. Every character in The Acolyte reflects this theme: Mae gives into the dark side at the beginning and kills Jedi in broad daylight. Sol is adamant to acquire a padawan even at the risk of his standing with the Jedi. The witches indulge their dark arts on an isolated planet where they cannot be judged. Qimir hides who he truly is and just wants freedom. Osha finally gives in to the dark side by killing Sol. Mae can’t be redeemed because it would contradict the theme so her mind is wiped. The green Jedi whips Qimir and hides it. Torbin indulges in his dark memories and commits suicide.
The problem with this is it means none of the characters are heroic and all give into their base desires, leaving the audience with no clear protagonist and a failed story.
Great video.
Agreed. There's no moral or ethical premise behind the story, aside from "flying your freak flag," and you really need some sort of core belief to make the story make sense, let alone be interesting and inspiring. There's simply no point to it otherwise.
OMG, @JustinTrudeau1971 You are the best and the only person who noted the pronunciation. You get the gold star today!!!
Yes, you're right that hope isn't necessarily a theme, but I think it is an overriding feeling that we get when we watch a Star Wars story... even if it's burried. There should still be some sense of a connection to the larger story that is tied to the core films which are all about "a new hope." However, like you say, the muddle with every character having a dark storyline or giving into their base desires or being corrupt in some way .... or just being killed off if they are too "good" like Jeckie ... leaves us with nobody to attach to as an audience that is looking for a protagonist to root for..... There had to be a dozen different things they could have done to fix that problem.
Thanks so much for your comment. I loved it!
The Acolyte Rating 3/10
So Many problems and questions…. My first question is who approved this script? We have finished the series and I have no idea what any of the characters motivations were. May wants to kill the Jedi, then wants to turn herself in, then doesn’t want to turn herself in. She knew her sister was alive in Episode 2 but then travelled to the Wookie’s planet to assassinate him instead of searching out her sister.
Who are we supposed to be routing for? The witches are horrible. The Jedi are horrible. The sith is really interesting but are we supposed to root for the murderer. When Yord died, I laughed. The only one I cared about was Jecki and that was due to the actress Dafne Keen. That is really sad after all these episodes of the series.
I am a gay man and I love a powerful female hero, but this is really embarrassing. This last episode…. “We will just tell the council that “Mae started the fire” “… in episode 3 I thought someone must have said something. After watching episode 7 no one ever tells them that Mae started the fire? How did they know when Osha wakes up?... they must have read the script. This is the worst possible crime you can do as a writer and this isn’t the first time in this series. The entire series is like listening to a 5 year old tell a story… and then, and then, and then. Have you noticed that Osha who is supposed to be the hero”?” has no agency. She is always taken to her destination or wakes up at her destination. I have zero investment in these characters (even less after episode 7). So many questions…. Why does stone burn in this Universe? What was Osha/Mae’s mother try to achieve turning into a smoke monster? Why are the witches good guys… You mind raped a Padawan? Why do the Jedi break in to the fortress instead of knocking on the door? Why make Mae and Osha part of a convergence? Why do force super powers come and go when your script needs it? So many questions? A lot of this I would just let slide, but when your entire series is like this, it is impossible to ignore
If you compare this to Buffy the Vampire Slayer - Season 4 - The Body, had one of the best character death in television history. A minor show character went out with an emotional tsunami. After all these years, I still cannot watch this episode without bawling like a baby. Even just thinking about this episode all these years later still makes me tear up. The most impactful scene has no dialog. When Buffy tells her sister and you see it through the art class window. A true masterclass in emotional writing. Not cluttering up a scene with words when actions carry the most impact. Every person in the audience has experience this once in their life making the scene an emotional atomic bomb instead of a punch. Not every series episode can be “The Body” or Game of Thrones “The Red Wedding” but Star Wars has fallen into “Oh Lightsabers” everyone clap type of laziness. Buffy the Vampire Slayer “The Body” took ten episodes of carefully build up the stakes and story lines for the characters death.
Last question $180 Million dollars for 8 half hour episodes? Where did the money go? It didn’t appear on the screen. Syfy’s The Expanse cost 3 to 8 million per episode for one hour episodes and it looked better than this series. The money definitely didn’t go to the writers. And these excuses of “Corporate Interference” just don’t wash for such a large IP. Why was a show put into production without a completed script?
I think the frustration of Star Wars fans is mediocre production after mediocre production with imbecilic or non-existing scrips. The final three films are a perfect example…. Who goes into a $800 million movie series with no finalized story plan, and shooting scripts for the three final movies? Yes if something doesn’t work in the first movie you can still revise, but you keep the main story beats. Episode 1 & 2 of The Acolyte showed some promise… Episode 3 it started to fall off of the rails…. Episode 4 I started to watch just to see how bad this train wreck was going to be. Thank goodness the episodes were short… any longer and I would have dropped this show and never finished it!
Great points. BTW, I didn't watch the show, but I've watched summaries and reviews, and I'm wondering: What's the actual point of the witch coven commune? Are they just living together because they're all lesbians who can't bear the presence of men, or do they actually DO anything out there?
@@Venejan I think the only reason it was female/lesbian witches was to draw parallels and sympathy with our history of witch persecution. We know that these women were framed and persecuted because we live in a world without this type of magic. But this does not work in a Universe of true magic (The Force/Thread) and the witches and Jedi both do some very sketchy things. How to reasonably get rid of men and make some sense.
Both sides look like idiots... witches for the first attach on the Jedi (you can't set up that people avoid and are incredibly uncomfortable about being brain raped and then have the witches go and do it) and the Jedi for breaking in? You couldn't knock on the door.... Idiots!!! Once you break in, Castle doctrine applies!!!
They wanted morally grey characters but made a muddled mess full of absolute fools.
You have asked so many questions that I want answered:
Who approved this script and why?
What was the approval process like and what was the end goal when the original assignment for the script was green lit? Did anyone do an analysis of "does this script meet the goal?"
Where did the money go? 5-6 hours of television should not cost $180 Million in any universe, especially since many of the scenes seemed to take place in similar locations and when they did go to a wild new location, they were using a digital backdrop. One of my neighbors is a carpenter who turns his garage and driveway into a Halloween spectacle each year for a couple thousand dollars and invites people to do walk-throughs... last year he created a magical forest and it was better in scope, detail, and aesthetic than what we saw on the Wookie's planet when the Jedi fought with Qimir. (To be fair, I live next to Salem, MA and people take their Halloween decorations a bit tooooooooo seriously here! LOL!)
And, your point about death scenes.... great freakin' examples. The Body, The Red Wedding, even Ben Kenobi's death in Star Wars .... you can find a way to make a death meaningful no matter how large or small the character, and the minute that death becomes meaningless in a Star Wars story (or any story), you have a writing problem.
Thanks for the comment. Excellent questions!
@@ErinUnderwood The funny thing is... as my father used to say "These people are getting high off the smell of there own Farts". It is guaranteed that the main creators thought they were making a "Post-Modern Masterpiece".
Who ever thought that the Witches ceremony "The power of One, The power of Two, The power of Many" should never work in "Creative Arts" again. The scene was dark, there was no coordination between the witches, there was no visible display of magic.
Compare this to "A Discovery of Witches" where the main character has to weave the magic spell with the help of the coven. Each part of the Coven providing an element for the master weave. That scene had life and movement and was visually brilliant!
I think she's a Sith.
Green Jedi Lady? She might be!! That would be an interesting, if not unpredictable twist. :-)
I heard my name .... oh my god ... I am famous .....
Haha! You have power!!!!!
Nice try. But i guess it will be pretty hard to fix anything here. It would need a new cut, new dubbing here and there and probably some deep fake fixing.
First, forget about this vergence nonsense. Wasn't it said, that this vergence was responsible for creating new life on this planet? So what does it have to do with the witches and the girls, who came there much later? Why does anyone need the girls in person to prove this vergence?
Then, cut out every reference to the sith. They won't reveal themselves now, this leads to nowhere.
Make the girls not changing their minds anytime. A person splitted into two? Fine, remember the classic Star Trek episode "The Enemy Within"? So let Mae be bad, staying bad, possibly staying with Qimir or killing him, and Osha be good and a little weak. And do not let them change places.
Concerning Sol and the witches, let Sol say "I sense danger because of dark forces". We all would have bought that. Let Torbin discover some danger and then let them all rush to the rescue. And Aniseya says after beeing stabbed: "I curse you, Jedi! May your best padawan be your doom!". After Koril turns into smoke she absorbes the lifes of the other witches, then goes to Kelnacca, possessing him.
There is still more to do, but i guess, it's all in vain discussing it. They won't change it. But i must not forget, your idea for the last scene, that Yoda should have called Vernestra to confess, is brilliant. Yes, the've got a problem, because exactly what the senator said, had happened. How will they get out of it? May be intersting.
Yeah. We can't go back and reproduce the show... it's sad. They will have to do some fancy fancy footwork in Season 2 to fix things, and I just don't think the current writing and directing team is up for that challenge.
I really hate the idea of the vergence. I keep calling it the divergence... LOL.
And I like your idea of the curse. That would have been a great addition.
It wasn't bad. The end.
I'm glad that you liked it.
The Acolyte is one of the few new shows I've watched in the Star Wars extended universe that I've actually enjoyed. The fandom overall is always r@cist so I tend to stay away from Star Wars content, but my friend (a hardcore Star Wars fan) asked me to watch it and I was impressed with the storytelling. The fact that the writers stepped away from Joseph Campbell/Aristotelian western story structure is a key reason why the series was a success for me, showing characters who embrace their shadow side, thus revealing that the Jedi are a cult no different than any other people striving to make meaning in a world of chaos. I applaud Leslye Headland for daring to subvert the canon and give us something different. The fact that so many problematic fanboys/fangirls are spiraling over this show has me cackling, and I hope there's a season 2 so I can see how characters who embrace their whole shadow selves are the heroes of their own journey. What may look like straying away from the Star Wars thematic throughline of "hope" to some, actually looks like hope for others.
I love your response and I am glad that you enjoyed it. I definitely have my own preferences on keeping with the mythology while also embracing new characters, but if this worked for you and brought you back to Star Wars, then that makes me happy. ❤️
@morganst.claire6944
You lost me at “overall the fandom is always r@cist”………. Stereotype much?………. 😉
Ironic that you can blame r@cism for failure instead of a horrible production that a vast majority of SW fans didn’t like at all………. 🤨