My problem isn’t with Ford playing for England the problem is he was parachuted into this team whilst having played barely any rugby this season ahead of other players such as Lowoski who's been inform and he doesn’t suit a 6-2 bench i'd personally send him home for the rest of the Autumn to gain so fitness so he's ready for the 6 nations. This however should be Dan Cole's last England campaign as if he isn’t dominating the scrum he's deadweight and isn’t going to make the next world cup same with Marler and George
Got to agree on the Cole front. Him and Baxter were supposed to be our best scrummagers in the team yesterday, yet got absolutely blasted when it came to scrum time. Obviously a scrum isn't just made of props but the way it just folded after those two came on raises some serious questions for me.
Wrong hes not world class never has been, he always fvcks it up for England, twat should retire from international rugby and do England a favour, and let smith play 80 mins.
As a neutral, what a game! But I saw Ford miss a tackle that led to a try, miss a winning penalty and miss a winning drop goal. And I think he was only on for 15 minutes? Poor guy had a nightmare
You touched on the "psychological," Tim. I've just watched the Borthwick/George post-match presser and couldn't help notice the smiles and chuckles after a loss and the general talking up by coach, captain, and journos of another "heroic loss." As long as this attitude persists, England will keep losing big games.
i disagree, the thing is you have to remember that its the first game of the series for them, its so so so important for them to stay positive for the rest of the series after they finish they can look back and judge each performance for what it actually is but right now the goal is to prepare and stay positive for the next game.
BC ABs best LH (De Groot) was left out for discipline reasons. De Groot toyed with Stuart in the summer. Williams has same issues Baxter does. He is too tall to be an effective scrummager. Gives up leverage far too easily.
In the interest of fairness, one of smiths missed drop goals was with pen advantage which he knocked over after. The other was at halftime so whilst technique wise it wasn't brilliant it was smartly timed for minimal impact if missed
Why go for a drop goal when you have a penalty advantage though? I never understand that when you have the chance for 3 points, why not use the free ball to try and score a try?
@@judaspriest4957 because they were going nowhere and had no momentum so would have just been called back for the pen anyway. If nothing's on why not take a zero risk practice shot at a drop goal so you have a feel for it later. Taking the 3's where they could was obviously a strategy coming into this
@Gilescowdemdem but we already had the penalty advantage in front of the sticks? Why go for 3 points when you have a free play? A drop goal is fine with nothing on and no penalty advantage, but with the penalty advantage you may as well have a go putting it through the hands, maybe even a speculative cross field kick knowing it'll come back for the penalty if it doesn't come off
Ire, Fra, NZ, SA have backrows with gas where is Englands who can use the ball in the same way? Cunningham South has good feet & gas yet used too much in the close. He'd have been better in a French Team. Brothers Willis need a go as smashing it up & better than Dombrandt
@@RozWentworth There we go again “From Saffa” You don’t have to impress anyone that South Africans also have the ability to be in awe of a foreign player. Just kidding mate. Sititi is amazing. From another Saffa.
My biggest takeaway from this game and others in the past is the celebrations throughout the game as if England already won. Play the game and concentrate on what needs to be done to win. Put that energy into finishing games. Love the channel. Hope that doesn't come to bite me, 😂😂. Lets go 🇿🇦🇿🇦
Loving the content at the moment Tim! As an Englishman, it was one hell of a test. However, you do have to ask yourself why was Ford rushed back when we have the one of, if not, the best fly half in the Premiership sat unused in the squad in Fin Smith
Hooking Smith for Ford was dumb. Missed Telea tackle, pen and DG was unsurprising given he hasnt played for 6 weeks. Our attack was pants. And our scrum did the usual and fell apart after 65 mins.
@@IverKnackerov I thought there was 1 for a penalty, but it was completely illegal hands on the ground not supporting his body and a single hand flailing at the ball. Maybe it was earl.
What does Borthwick’s insistence on bringing Ford on during the latter stages of matches say to Marcus Smith? For me, taking Smith off when he’s playing well is mystifying. Ditto having Ford on a 6-2 bench. And the icing on the cake is the choice of Randall as the substitute 9 to play alongside Ford in the final 20 minutes! All this being said, England were one very kickable penalty away from the win and Ford would expect to get that penalty 80%+ of the time in which case the post game narrative (by all pundits, including Tim) would have been totally different. Just saying… (Added after seeing Tim’s comments) Ford is a great 10, that is not in doubt. But, I think he should either start or left out of the squad if Borthwick wants a 6-2 bench; can anyone explain how it makes sense that England, if at some point in the game say Lawrence gets injured, bring on Ford and reshuffle the entire back setup to accommodate him? In this scenario which back setup would you prefer; Smith, Freeman, Daly, Slade, F-W, Furbank (one player out of position) OR Ford, Furbank, Slade, Freeman, F-W, Smith (4 players out of position!). If Ford is so brilliant that he can compensate for 4 other players moving out of position then surely he should start in the first place?
Your last comment absolutely nailed it, with freeman being already starting Daly, Steward or Sleightholme all offer flexibility as well as a bit of excitement off the bench
MMM...he kicked ok at goal and had one opportunistic moment so a good game but they hype is over the top. England's attack overall? Was almost non-existent. Smith and co never looked like scoring tries unless ABs made bad errors (like the intercept) that helped them do so. Contrast that with ABs who had a ton of line breaks and chances they fumbled away.
He was 100% off the tee if I am not mistaken? Kicked 17 of England's 22 points, created the try with his interception, kicked a lovely 50-22 in the second half, and generally looked threatening with ball in hand. His impact for England was huge and don't think it's his fault that the attack wasn't great?
I dont understand why he was replaced? Its almost like they were sticking to a certain plan and were gonna replace him regardless at a certain point instead of reading the game and letting him play ..as he was clearly in control and playing well.
Greetings Tim, love your commentary & content, felt bleak for Marcus Smith, shouldn't have subbed him, England looking good, as a Saffa supporter I'm feeling nervous for the 16th of Nov, is it just my perception or was there no official anthem singer for the AB's and also do you think it was Itoje's intention to kick or trip Mark Telea with the try in the corner ??
Many teams are going for a blitz defence, but the AB's are busy trying to find ways to get around them and still haven't quite nailed it yet. I wouldn't take off Smith, unless you can bring on someone who can match his quality. Great reviews. Kiwi fan😁
Tim, take your point about Ford, but why no mention in two videos of the pathetic attempt at a tackle?? Also, why no real mention of how there seems to be a habit of Borthwicks substitutions in the last 20 minutes costing us games? That’s the real issue for me!
I respect that there was a lot of pressure on the penalty and drop goals are no piece of cake, so I don't want to give him stick for that in particular, even if it would've been nice if he got them. But that attempted tackle on telea was pathetic. And I'm not even just talking about ford. This whole thing with telea being 'untacklable' is getting a bit stupid, I swear it's getting to the point where people aren't even trying to stop him. Like he's 10 metres from the try line and there's 3 people right next to him. JUST SHOVE HIM OUT FFS. And ye, the bench isn't doing it. Its pretty much always the difference for us. Even against Japan you could tell england started to slow down when the subs came on.
You ever watched Smith try to tackle? He's way more pathetic. Ford had the highest tackle percentage of any 10 in the 2019 world cup. The man brings down players twice his size.
@wjhd6823 ok? I don't care about 2019 WC, I care about the fact that YESTERDAY Ford missed an easy tackle that even a player like Smith would be capable of tackling
Your words "took it to New Zealand ", so true but not in attack hence why i cannot understand why Smith was taken off but your assessment is appropriate.
As a rabid AB fan, I like your balanced analysis Mark. As Borthwick said after the match, there was only the width of a goalpost in the final result. What a test match!
I wouldn’t call for George Ford’s head, but Smith was miles ahead today. The bench was poor. They don’t HAVE to make changes just for the sake of doing it. Can’t fault anyone in the starting pack imo, they were great.
I think the decision to bring Ford on was very much about protecting the lead and this, for me, is where the psychology comes in. It's Borthwick's instinctive caution. How many times do we hear the cliché that sitting back and defending a lead is a sure fire way of losing it I also think that chucking someone in who hasn't played for a month and expecting them to nail a clutch kick is a big ask and is another reason I wouldn't have taken off Smith.
Good afternoon Mate, another profound analysis of the game which have become so part of the channel. Ratings for England spot on. Maro I, George M, CCS, Tom C and Ben E world class. The front row though not good enough. The bench need to make an impact. In Sir Clive W's era, there were big players like Lawrence D, Martin J, Johnny W, and many other senior players who put up their hands in EVERY game. Psychologically it can trip the England team if they keep on losing big games. Last take, the English media is just so cruel as with the football/soccer. It is not helpful. I am a big supporter of England. As a South African I want to see a good England team. It is good for the game. I am a die hard England football (Man Utd) fan though from a very young age. Thanks once again. Kind regards. Don
In strong agreement with all comments here and the hot takes video! My Key takeaways: - 3/4 Wins this Autumn was the minimum, so nothing but wins against Aus, SA and Japan is now acceptable. Three defining games for Borthwick imo. - Props need to scrum first, play second. (Shout out to Genge and Stuart today, but Borthwick needs to pick the best scrummagers) - 6/2 Bench didn't work and maybe too early for Ford to be on the bench (not saying he shouldn't play for England again, but was he match fit?) - If you don't back them, don't pick them. Isiekwe on the bench, bringing on the 77th minute is pointless (Some backs cover would have been more useful) - If a player is having a great game, you don't have to use your sub. Slightly contradicting to the above point, but did Smith need to come off? Have confidence in your subs that they can change a game, but on the flip side, if someone is playing well then impact (a change) might not be needed Thoughts for Aus game: - Freeman at 13, Daly at 11 (Nothing against Slade, just good chances to give Freeman a go there) - Can Davison hold up the scrum at the end of a game? Give him a shot - Ted Hill on the Bench - Time to give him a chance - Northmore on the Bench - Valuable minutes to start building some back-up options experience
This game was such a spectacular experience, the coverage was incredible, England were unlucky but you can’t describe their defensive game as strong when they let 3 tries over their line.
A friend of mine, who is a very casual rugby fan, asked me yesterday during the game: “Why are they celebrating a tackle?” England need to stop celebrating knock-ons and penalties and need to learn how to win. This morning a Planet Rugby journalist (who I suspect is British) gave England’s players a combined 30 more points than somebody else gave the NZ players on the same website. You would’ve thought England won by 20 reading the reviews. That gives you a good idea why they cannot finish off big matches.
No problem at all with talking up Owen Farrell, George Ford and Finn Smith. However, one of Marcus Smith's superpowers is pulling things out of the fire in the final quarter of games. He has done that repeatedly for Harlequins. It always seems crazy when England choose to replace him towards the end of close games.
Great points Tim. The smith vs ford debate is not the conversation to be had. Set piece and bench lost England the game. Credit to NZ though, so dangerous and deserved the W.
Wrt replacements, I think there's a lot of flexibility in the pack; locks who play 6, earl can play 7 or 8, currys can play 6, 7, 8. Why do we go for a 6-2 split, with Noone covering the wing? Do we even need a replacement 10 when we have Slade and furbank on the field in an emergency? Can't understand not having some more flair or express pace, good crop of wingers coming through. or go for someone different like Ibitoye?
Completely agree on Ford. How long ago were we playing Argentina at the world cup? People have short memories. He's still class and great to have around for the rest of this WC cycle.
The term ‘closing out a game’ is England’s problem in the last 20 minutes. You can bet sure as hell that the oposition will be throwing everything at you for that quarter if they’re behind and you have to make sure you remain in the ascendency. Bringing on George Ford to ‘manage’ the game is a very neutral decision to make. You need to be turning up the heat in those minutes not turning it down.
Considering that England were playing their first game since the summer and their first game with a full squad since the spring, and were up against a team that has just finished a tournament. This was a good performance.
@@rogerkirkham2119 Because of the context in which the game was played. Considering New Zealand have been together as a group more recently and for longer, it was either a poor performance by New Zealand or a good performance by England.
@@barnigranero5882 I can't see that in scoring three tries the AB's were poor. But I agree that England were good doing well until Borthwick did what he likes to do, snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by replacing Smith for Ford & Spencer for Randall!!!
I’m so glad you mentioned Will Stuart Tim. Nothing pretty or spectacular, but he was rock solid at scrum time. That’s what I want from an England Tighthead. Hold the scrum up, don’t go backwards. I really hope he builds on this game as New Zealand’s scrum is right up there. I was also very surprised at how badly the scrum went when Baxter and Cole came on. I really didn’t see that coming at all and it killed momentum and allowed New Zealand to take control of the game. All in all, the bench was the issue here. It’s not hindsight to say that it was a mistake going with a 6-2 split with a specialist 9 and 10 the back options. Leaving Isiekwe out and having Daly or Sleightholme in a 5-3 split would have been better.
Ford’s body language before the kick was really interesting. A team is only as good as its players, and we just don’t have the players. We are very close, but we have weaknesses in vital positions. If we had a decent front row (plus subs), a decent 9 and a decent 12, we’d be in a good position. Until then we’ll be a nearly team. To hammer the point home: 1. We have the worst front row of the home nations. 2. We have the worst centre pairing of the home nations (unless Wales continue not to pick their best pairing) 3. We have the worst 9 of the home nations. It’s frustrating, because we are pretty strong elsewhere, but these are such key positions.
Fair analysis, I'd mark a few lower though, whereas I'd have 6 as average. So earl down to 6/6.5, rushed out by himself a couple of times, when it wasn't on and no arms cost us. Lawrence and slade, 6.5, just don't think ot works as an attacking 12/13 combo. I'd mark itoje up with smith and feyi, he was just immense, a nightmare to play against. Ultimately yes we lost again, but what a test match, it was just thrilling, bloody brilliant. If we look back to where we were under jones at the end, to where we are, we should be proud of our boys and excited
I love England, but as you have pointed out the short comings are in the scrum and the lack of impact from the bench. I do believe that England's inability to win close games is not down to mental / psychological block or the impenetrable "aura of the AB"s - if we had a Pollard, (SA), or a Ramos, (Fra), or even our beloved Farrell would nail those drop goals / penalties. We are just coming up a bit short - I believe we can fix the kicking but the scrum and front row issue is a continuous Achilles heel.
I agree with a lot of what you say Tim. The bench is a problem, the scrum definitely went downhill when the replacements came on. I am looking forward to the day when they (when I say they I mean England) get their attack sorted as they have a very strong defence. Marcus needs better support when he makes his breaks.
England are still suffering from the perennial inability to show any attacking flair. Defence was good, the scrum went well for half of the Match, but there's no try-scoring ambition still and it will hold them back.
I completely agree that they didn’t show any great attacking flair like the all blacks. But I would say that in the previous two games they showed some real flair. My guess is the lack of Mitchell and slower ball kills the englands moves. For me the losing 3 winnable games in a row and the consistent poor performances from the bench are the real issue that I don’t really understand, although ik we don’t quite have the depth in some positions
Yep and it is why I have hard time saying Marcus Smith had a great game. He didn't, he was good but great? No, in the entire match England never looked like scoring a try unless ABs helped them to do so. Smith didn't make any breaks, great passes or kicks that put England in a position to score a try. Intercept was a great read but it wasn't creative. It was opportunistic.
Hi Tim, I thought that was a decent test match. Just thought throughout the game the ABs always looked, even when they were trailing, as if they were capable of putting their foot on the gas and getting their noses back in front. Unfortunately, as you alluded to, the England replacements as in the Calcutta Cup game at Murrayfield failed to live up to their reputations.
It was an absolute belter of television viewing. So exciting. The number of errors was gob smacking, from both sides. The chasm between Ireland/South Africa and France is a worry for world rugby.
It looked like England had the measure of the ABs up until the 65-70 minute when instead of continuing to play as they had done to win the game, they looked like they were trying not to lose. Certainly England are back in the mix at the top and improving with some excellent new talent so glass half full.
Missed opportunity against a below par New Zealand. A few players are outstaying their welcome. A few seem to be ‘favourites’ picked on reputation and not on form. Subs killed us. Some strange decisions and ultimately selections. Little impact from bench. Front row change was biggy. And of course no prep and game time Ford. Nuff said.
England's defense: I recall Kolbe in the 2019 WC final beating forwards to score. In this game, Telea had to beat forwards to score his first try. Is this a coincidence? I think in both instances they were front row forwards defending that wide. Puzzling
Im not disheartened Tim, the AB's are a top 4 team. The talent is there, but at the moment England are not savvy enough to put the best teams away. Hopefully the coaching set up stabalises and if the squad remains consistent too in the next 2 years we'll start seeing more of these 50/50 games as the team matures.
Ford had a poor game with a pathetic high tackle that was never going to stop a try and two missed kicks. We should not blame him for the loss and he is a great player and good servant for England. But you have to ask of Borthwick was Ford match ready? Why substitute Smith?
I feel that Englands defence was poor at times. The first two tries allowed the AB.s to just cut through England. Just too easy. Their biggest problem was letting Felix Jones go.
I didn't think England's defense was that great for most of the game. NZ blew chance after chance after big line breaks. Had ABs not made so many handling errors and some atrocious passes/offloads, ABs score 3 even 4 more tries. Contrast that with England who scored a try of a terrible pass by a AB's SH. Outside of that? I can't remember getting close to scoring a try. It was a bizarre game.
I completely agree. Improved for 20 mins in second half I felt then went tits up again. Really surprised to hear so many people say the defence was solid
At 14 -19 they didnt want to play anymore with 20 minutes on the clock...the English cap was literally out on his feet. Slow the game down, frustrate and kick penalties - takes a bit more than that to win.
This England team has a bright future with alot of players approaching their peak and alot of very promising young players. And lets be real. that was an incredible game for a entertainment perspective.
Fair rankings for the most part, but jeez spare me the indignation about George Ford. He was a poor selection by Borthwick with a match fit and excellent Fin Smith available. Ford has been subbed on on multiple occasions in the last year or so and the continuity and form has dropped. It’s not a one off. I don’t care if he’s “been class” or is a hero in your eyes, he really didn’t deliver today. And this test match rugby. That flap at Telea was pitiful, and not the first time Ford’s defence has been lacklustre. He then lacked the composure to kick two very kickable match winning goals. The Randall pass wasn’t that bad frankly, could have been lower but was more or less in the pocket. We don’t need “experienced” players like Ford, or Cole for that matter, if they don’t make a net contribution. Pick on form, plan around a World Cup cycle, all day, every day. We’re three years out and Borths has huge latitude to actually build. Ford’s last world class game was vs Argentina in the WC. Since then, demonstrably over the hill. It is in no shape, way or form unfair to hold that view, and you framing it like a fickle fan whinge is some weak nonsense.
I felt like we needed another ball player at 12 in that game. Never saw Furbank step up into that spot. But miles ahead of where we were 2 years ago. Keep building.
Interesting points tim, but i guess the big question is how England improve? Do you stick woth these players and coach them better, or do we need to introduce new blood more quickly, especially in the front row?
Tim I think you don’t understand what England was trying to do. The way England played had a bit in common with the way SA played at one stage. If you play that style, your defense is your attack. You keep playing field position and press the opposition into making mistakes. A structure that doesn’t produce beautiful constructed tries just opportunistic plays.
English scrum was good but I did notice that when ABs had forward momentum then england would ease up and then the ABs pro would go down... I dont know if I saw that correctly. It was a weird game... English came speeding out but didn't keep the energy like they did in semi of 2019. England had a few opportunities to win this game...
A little flattering on some of those. Not sure how you saw 7.5 for Curry, 6 for Genge, of that 5 for Ford. In fact, no idea what you see in Ford, and that has nothing to do with the kicks he missed today. But, hopefully England keep playing him, it's better for the Southern Hemisphere teams. If England had played Marcus Smith for the last 3 years, there are alot of results that might have been very different. With him there, the team's potential to turn nothing into something in the blink of an eye is always a threat ... Farrell never provided that, & neither does Ford. Test matches between the top teams are so close now days, that those few moments, of often individual brilliance, are what turn games. Sititi's pass to put away Tele'a, and Tele's ability to finish that 75th min try were good examples of that 'X factor'. NZ have about 6 players with that X factor, the Boks / Ireland / Scotland about 4 or 5 each, England have Marcus Smith & most likely Feyi-Waboso if he continues to grow.
As always Tim, your insights and unbiased and informative commentary, even while wearing your England cap, is very much a highlight I look forward regularly, You are a credit to the game! Thank you from a Saffa and SH supporter, I believe England deserved to win. Happy for NZ though!!
As an English supporter from NZ, I truly believe this English squad is so close to RWC glory if they can sort out this morale issue. And especially the attacking needs a massive improvement. But I believe they can do it!
Re. Forde and your “Show me a day when an international player…” But it was kicking out of hand and off the ground…And… it was his tacking or lack of it-again-his poor body positioning and technique. He has no pace, you know he’s not a running threat. So when you have smart, spontaneous players like F Smith available why choose to play with your handbrake on with Forde? This is elite rugby that requires quick minds and the unpredictable to unlock well organised defences.
Shouldn't the centers score better if the fly-half is so excellent? If Marcus had such a great game, wouldn't the players outside him feature more in the game?
As a player of 20-plus years at all levels in England and finally, in the U.S., I suspect that psychology is a major factor. At age sixteen I moved to the U.S. and was shocked by how much greater a killer instinct players have in the States. This became blatantly apparent when I returned to England at age 21 to go to university. In the U.S. the press does not attack their players when they fail, I was absolutely astounded by the treatment that Farrell was subjected to. England need more players who wear their hearts on their sleeves. I was in total disbelief at the autumn 2022 N.Z. international after overcoming a 3-try deficit in the last 5 minutes and N.Z. down to 13 players for M. Smith to kick the ball into touch rather than play for a win.
If England want to play that way they need to bring in players like Freddie Steward who shine in that style. Think of the MoTM awards he won before Borthwick tried to open the style up with Furbank etc.
As a Kiwi I don't understand why Eng don't run their dangerous backs and utilise Smiths talent more. Everything else ( except prop depth) is mega. Clark and Telea are L&R wings for the Blues, so these is their natural positions. Telea is MUCH better on the right!
1st 1/2 Abs indiscipline allowed Eng stay in the game with little penetration into the Abs 22m. The scrum was good but did little to punish the ABs. The defence was good yes but better teams can get turnover to make an attack & Eng can't do this. Why? Then last 20mins Eng fell apart & is this with the bench? Smith made a good intercept & set up the try & that was it! Baxter struggled with NZ size. Englands backline made less breaks & the cross kick employed was nullified. Borthwick 'Journey' is over done maybe he is to. I feel the departure of Jones was an effect. Why? Some good turnover with zero counter other than kicking ball away. England looked knackered .
I don’t even know what to think, we are cooked at 10. Marcus is a great kicker and good on the counter but our set piece attack looked headless. I said bring Ford on then he has a defensive nightmare and misses those two kicks…we are so set everywhere but prop and 10 it’s painful
@ isn’t that on him to call those running lines though? Not like Slade and Laurence are incapable of hitting good lines, maybe the attacking coaches fault.
@@videoaddict961 i'd have to watch the game again mate but live it looked like the game plan so probably a bit of both. I saw Ollie had 2 carries and 2 passes the whole game. They started with a cross kick in their 22, that has to be playing to a plan. Also just watching live England were never going to be expansive. I wonder what would have happened if NZ didn't give away those first half pens. I mean of my manager or boss gives instructions why would I bot follow them; it's why I'm getting paid and if it doesn't work well blame them right?
@@enriquenelson4516 Well I agree I think it was the game plan and that plan was relying heavily on Marcus’ improvisation. As a quins fan it’s deadly at prem level but I’m skeptical of how much was can rely on it with international defences. Especially against Ireland and SA, I think we have proven we are the same level of the All Blacks we are just lacking winning instinct generally.
England's centers offered nothing on attack, NZs also tbh as a side note, but if Marcus had better centers England could have cooked. The pack were really dominant for 60 minutes.
Feels like could shoulda woulda for England in the last 3 games with New Zealand. Are they far away? No, they are very close but i don't think as close as what is being said. That last 1% is the hardest to get amd some teams never get it
As a neutral I thought it was a great game. Agree England’s attack is lacking at the moment, but Marcus Smith kept them in the game, particularly during the first half.
England keep picking players on reputation not form. Ford, Slade, T Curry picked on past efforts. Need to inject more pace in forwards and backs. When will England realise. Need Hill, T Willis, move Freeman to OC centre and have Sleightholme on wing. Too much kicking to teams with quicker backs is madness. Borthwick out of depth as coach as he was an International player.
Great game Tim, thought you had it in the last few mins. What did you think of the new kick law, seems to have opened up the game a lot more and gives a real threat with the high ball. Also, did you watch the Munster - very good game.
The top four rugby teams have reached a point where the team with the fittest players will win matches. Just now the Springboks appear to be that team; perhaps because having the largest number of rugby players to call upon, generates the desire of potential representative players to be at peak fitness,
The better team won but it’s a worry for England that they couldn’t beat a very out of sorts AB side who had no direction themselves. The ABs were poor and it was just individual ability that got them their tries. Even with the ref on England’s side they couldn’t win
Agree the Abs are poor but the ref on Englands side ? Think you must of had a few if you think that. How the Abs got away with no yellow before they did was crazy. A nailed on deliberate knock on that somehow Gardner missed and almost gave the Abs a try was somehow not a yellow ? The tackles off the ball ? At least 5 of them ? Going into the ruck off the feet ? Only someone one eyed would think the ref was biased. He’s just not very good .
Tim over generous on the ratings. Re Randalls pass. Have a look at Dawson to Wilkinson to win the world cup ? It wasn't a clean pass & off his week foot. Lets place in some perspective. Finn Smith shud be in as part of the rebuild. Seen the post-math interviews & Borthwick claims that Fords missed kick was a goalpost width from going over? My Dog ate my homework.
Borthwick is looking like a paint by numbers coach. A good plan going into games but no adaptation during the games to on field dynamics. Poor bench execution is on him. Lack of front row options are outside his control. He will get better as an international coach. England are in the mix for 3rd/4th best in the world but i think SA and Ireland are the clear top 2. France will be better this year with Dupont back in the fold as well.
Said this would happen when he was announced as England coach. He’s looking to get England playing the Leicester style, which makes no sense to me given the attacking resources in the Premiership currently outweigh the stock of quality forwards available for England selection, but Roundheads are gonna Roundhead.
Ford is still a world class 10 and almost single-handedly got us to a RWC semi in a struggling team. However, it was a bad day at the office for him. The miss tackle on Telea and the missed penalty were both unusual errors which suggests he was undercooked (not his fault but rather a management decision which didn't pay off). He has in the past taken a few games to get back to his best form and the same is true here. Yes, you want your best players on the field but if they are coming back from injury, surely that is a moment to test players from the wider squad. Players like Fin Smith, Lozowski, Northmore, Davidson and co. need to be given opportunities or we are just simply waiting for players like, Cole, Ford, Slade and Marler to get injured or retire. In the meantime you learn nothing from these fringe players. However, there are bigger issues at play 1) Our attack lacks innovation and deception 2) How many tight games do we have to throw away before bringing in some of the U20s props. I admire Borthwicks loyalty and wanting to keep a core group of experienced players in the squad but he needs to jettison young, in-form young players quickly to find out if any of them are world class. The game is changing where the attack is as if not more important than defence. Simply put, we need to score more tries to keep up with the likes of France, Ireland and NZ.
I understood the drop goals vs Argentina and SA in the WC. And the Ford one yesterday. I’m confused by smiths option to do it twice in the first half and vs Ireland in the 6 nations. If you have penalty advantage in a very kickable position go for the try and 5 points
It's a friendly, let's judge them on the block of games and see how they develop throughout. Hell of a learning for Fin Baxter, will only stand him in good stead for the future.
I can understand that you would want to find positives from the game, but one intercept try? If you want to be really honest it's the same old record playing isn't it?
Thanks Tim. I would have given Spencer a 5 if I’m honest. Thought he was painfully slow at times and whilst he’s not going to be as quick as Mitchell or Randall I thought what he offered in the way of kicking (what he usually is good at) was very average and he got caught out a few times. Do we think there is a fair drop off in quality after Mitchell? Only time will tell.
Hey Tim, Got a questions or a observation or both Furbank is a great prem player but honestly I don’t think he is a test player I know you have him a 7 because he made a pass to the try and got there I’ll question that as you gave 7’s to guys who went thru buckets of work thru the game. I think England should have moved Marcus to 15 when they wanted Ford on and I honestly think they win that test match but who knows. I got question marks over Harry R as well if he is a test player? Over all a solid performance from England 👌🏉 Love your content 🫶🏼🏉🫶🏼
All I would say on Englands attack (and I do agree totally we need more threatening multiphase) how many England attacks in the NZ half were shut down by off the ball tackles? There aren’t that many attacking opportunities in the op 22 in an international test and NZ shut down a fair few from off the ball tackles and the knock down. They weren’t all stopped due to England inadequacy
My problem isn’t with Ford playing for England the problem is he was parachuted into this team whilst having played barely any rugby this season ahead of other players such as Lowoski who's been inform and he doesn’t suit a 6-2 bench i'd personally send him home for the rest of the Autumn to gain so fitness so he's ready for the 6 nations. This however should be Dan Cole's last England campaign as if he isn’t dominating the scrum he's deadweight and isn’t going to make the next world cup same with Marler and George
Got to agree on the Cole front. Him and Baxter were supposed to be our best scrummagers in the team yesterday, yet got absolutely blasted when it came to scrum time. Obviously a scrum isn't just made of props but the way it just folded after those two came on raises some serious questions for me.
my problem is with Ford playing. His defence is not good enough. period.
Completely agree, couldn't have said it better myself.
Wrong hes not world class never has been, he always fvcks it up for England, twat should retire from international rugby and do England a favour, and let smith play 80 mins.
As a neutral, what a game! But I saw Ford miss a tackle that led to a try, miss a winning penalty and miss a winning drop goal. And I think he was only on for 15 minutes? Poor guy had a nightmare
Marcus Smith shanked two drop kicks that my granny could have goaled.
Reminded me of O’Gara for the Lions in 2009!
@@ianbarnard4963Of course she would.
It’s got to be atleast top 10 worst subs of all time
@jan-p4y True! The game fell apart for England when he came on. Ford was just flat
You touched on the "psychological," Tim. I've just watched the Borthwick/George post-match presser and couldn't help notice the smiles and chuckles after a loss and the general talking up by coach, captain, and journos of another "heroic loss." As long as this attitude persists, England will keep losing big games.
He’s Bottlewick the Southgate of ruggers get him out
i disagree, the thing is you have to remember that its the first game of the series for them, its so so so important for them to stay positive for the rest of the series after they finish they can look back and judge each performance for what it actually is but right now the goal is to prepare and stay positive for the next game.
Great point 👍
That was Will Stuart's best game in an England shirt for me.
BC ABs best LH (De Groot) was left out for discipline reasons. De Groot toyed with Stuart in the summer. Williams has same issues Baxter does. He is too tall to be an effective scrummager. Gives up leverage far too easily.
@@jlm4455nah. Finn Baxter is only 6'0
Williams is 6'5. Completely wrong
@@jlm4455 Baxter is a great scrummager, he's still only 22 lol
Completely agree
Only took 40 caps
Really enjoy your perspective as a kiwi I like to watch contrasting opinions when it comes to the AB.
Keep up the good work mate
In the interest of fairness, one of smiths missed drop goals was with pen advantage which he knocked over after. The other was at halftime so whilst technique wise it wasn't brilliant it was smartly timed for minimal impact if missed
Why go for a drop goal when you have a penalty advantage though? I never understand that when you have the chance for 3 points, why not use the free ball to try and score a try?
@@judaspriest4957 because they were going nowhere and had no momentum so would have just been called back for the pen anyway. If nothing's on why not take a zero risk practice shot at a drop goal so you have a feel for it later. Taking the 3's where they could was obviously a strategy coming into this
@Gilescowdemdem but we already had the penalty advantage in front of the sticks? Why go for 3 points when you have a free play? A drop goal is fine with nothing on and no penalty advantage, but with the penalty advantage you may as well have a go putting it through the hands, maybe even a speculative cross field kick knowing it'll come back for the penalty if it doesn't come off
Wallace Sititi is some player, outrageous performance!
Will move to 8 next year
Ire, Fra, NZ, SA have backrows with gas where is Englands who can use the ball in the same way? Cunningham South has good feet & gas yet used too much in the close. He'd have been better in a French Team. Brothers Willis need a go as smashing it up & better than Dombrandt
From Saffa...he is a beast🎉🎉🎉
@@RozWentworth There we go again “From Saffa”
You don’t have to impress anyone that South Africans also have the ability to be in awe of a foreign player. Just kidding mate. Sititi is amazing. From another Saffa.
@GiuseppeGaribaldi46664 lol...Bruhh...good to give credit where it's due..we also gave amazing newbies, this kid is good
My biggest takeaway from this game and others in the past is the celebrations throughout the game as if England already won. Play the game and concentrate on what needs to be done to win. Put that energy into finishing games. Love the channel. Hope that doesn't come to bite me, 😂😂. Lets go 🇿🇦🇿🇦
Loving the content at the moment Tim! As an Englishman, it was one hell of a test. However, you do have to ask yourself why was Ford rushed back when we have the one of, if not, the best fly half in the Premiership sat unused in the squad in Fin Smith
Hooking Smith for Ford was dumb. Missed Telea tackle, pen and DG was unsurprising given he hasnt played for 6 weeks.
Our attack was pants. And our scrum did the usual and fell apart after 65 mins.
Not a single jackal turnover from T Curry - not even close. No way is that the best 7 in England
@@IverKnackerov I thought there was 1 for a penalty, but it was completely illegal hands on the ground not supporting his body and a single hand flailing at the ball. Maybe it was earl.
@@axxeyBen curry off the bench
What does Borthwick’s insistence on bringing Ford on during the latter stages of matches say to Marcus Smith? For me, taking Smith off when he’s playing well is mystifying. Ditto having Ford on a 6-2 bench. And the icing on the cake is the choice of Randall as the substitute 9 to play alongside Ford in the final 20 minutes!
All this being said, England were one very kickable penalty away from the win and Ford would expect to get that penalty 80%+ of the time in which case the post game narrative (by all pundits, including Tim) would have been totally different. Just saying…
(Added after seeing Tim’s comments) Ford is a great 10, that is not in doubt. But, I think he should either start or left out of the squad if Borthwick wants a 6-2 bench; can anyone explain how it makes sense that England, if at some point in the game say Lawrence gets injured, bring on Ford and reshuffle the entire back setup to accommodate him? In this scenario which back setup would you prefer; Smith, Freeman, Daly, Slade, F-W, Furbank (one player out of position) OR Ford, Furbank, Slade, Freeman, F-W, Smith (4 players out of position!). If Ford is so brilliant that he can compensate for 4 other players moving out of position then surely he should start in the first place?
I guess they brought Ford on to be their saving grace on drop-goals, as he did in the World Cup
Your last comment absolutely nailed it, with freeman being already starting Daly, Steward or Sleightholme all offer flexibility as well as a bit of excitement off the bench
I haven't watched Marcus Smith much but I thought he was class, from an Ireland fan
MMM...he kicked ok at goal and had one opportunistic moment so a good game but they hype is over the top. England's attack overall? Was almost non-existent. Smith and co never looked like scoring tries unless ABs made bad errors (like the intercept) that helped them do so.
Contrast that with ABs who had a ton of line breaks and chances they fumbled away.
He was 100% off the tee if I am not mistaken? Kicked 17 of England's 22 points, created the try with his interception, kicked a lovely 50-22 in the second half, and generally looked threatening with ball in hand. His impact for England was huge and don't think it's his fault that the attack wasn't great?
absolutely agree
I dont understand why he was replaced? Its almost like they were sticking to a certain plan and were gonna replace him regardless at a certain point instead of reading the game and letting him play ..as he was clearly in control and playing well.
The decision to take off Smith is incomprehensible. This decision by the coaching staff cost England the game.
I love how prolific you are. Us avid rugby fans can’t get enough of your good rugby content
Greetings Tim, love your commentary & content, felt bleak for Marcus Smith, shouldn't have subbed him, England looking good, as a Saffa supporter I'm feeling nervous for the 16th of Nov, is it just my perception or was there no official anthem singer for the AB's and also do you think it was Itoje's intention to kick or trip Mark Telea with the try in the corner ??
Many teams are going for a blitz defence, but the AB's are busy trying to find ways to get around them and still haven't quite nailed it yet. I wouldn't take off Smith, unless you can bring on someone who can match his quality. Great reviews. Kiwi fan😁
Thanks
Tim, take your point about Ford, but why no mention in two videos of the pathetic attempt at a tackle??
Also, why no real mention of how there seems to be a habit of Borthwicks substitutions in the last 20 minutes costing us games?
That’s the real issue for me!
I respect that there was a lot of pressure on the penalty and drop goals are no piece of cake, so I don't want to give him stick for that in particular, even if it would've been nice if he got them. But that attempted tackle on telea was pathetic. And I'm not even just talking about ford. This whole thing with telea being 'untacklable' is getting a bit stupid, I swear it's getting to the point where people aren't even trying to stop him. Like he's 10 metres from the try line and there's 3 people right next to him. JUST SHOVE HIM OUT FFS.
And ye, the bench isn't doing it. Its pretty much always the difference for us. Even against Japan you could tell england started to slow down when the subs came on.
I thought the first bench forward replacements may have been too early?
You ever watched Smith try to tackle? He's way more pathetic. Ford had the highest tackle percentage of any 10 in the 2019 world cup. The man brings down players twice his size.
@wjhd6823 ok? I don't care about 2019 WC, I care about the fact that YESTERDAY Ford missed an easy tackle that even a player like Smith would be capable of tackling
Your words "took it to New Zealand ", so true but not in attack hence why i cannot understand why Smith was taken off but your assessment is appropriate.
As a rabid AB fan, I like your balanced analysis Mark. As Borthwick said after the match, there was only the width of a goalpost in the final result. What a test match!
Apologies, Tim, not Mark!
I wouldn’t call for George Ford’s head, but Smith was miles ahead today. The bench was poor. They don’t HAVE to make changes just for the sake of doing it. Can’t fault anyone in the starting pack imo, they were great.
I think the decision to bring Ford on was very much about protecting the lead and this, for me, is where the psychology comes in. It's Borthwick's instinctive caution. How many times do we hear the cliché that sitting back and defending a lead is a sure fire way of losing it
I also think that chucking someone in who hasn't played for a month and expecting them to nail a clutch kick is a big ask and is another reason I wouldn't have taken off Smith.
As a kiwi, I'd say trying to take drop goals in the first half summed up their lack of intent on attack.
Good afternoon Mate, another profound analysis of the game which have become so part of the channel. Ratings for England spot on. Maro I, George M, CCS, Tom C and Ben E world class. The front row though not good enough. The bench need to make an impact. In Sir Clive W's era, there were big players like Lawrence D, Martin J, Johnny W, and many other senior players who put up their hands in EVERY game. Psychologically it can trip the England team if they keep on losing big games. Last take, the English media is just so cruel as with the football/soccer. It is not helpful. I am a big supporter of England. As a South African I want to see a good England team. It is good for the game. I am a die hard England football (Man Utd) fan though from a very young age. Thanks once again. Kind regards. Don
I just loved it as a saffa when the english replaced their whole front row at the same time.💪
Why?
lol …. I was thinking at the time …..
Some absolute bone crunchers today. Thoroughly entertaining. What a test
It’s not the missed drop goal. It’s the pathetic attempt to tackle Telea which annoyed me most
Unforgivable, shithouse attempt at a tackle. Cost us the game.
In strong agreement with all comments here and the hot takes video!
My Key takeaways:
- 3/4 Wins this Autumn was the minimum, so nothing but wins against Aus, SA and Japan is now acceptable. Three defining games for Borthwick imo.
- Props need to scrum first, play second. (Shout out to Genge and Stuart today, but Borthwick needs to pick the best scrummagers)
- 6/2 Bench didn't work and maybe too early for Ford to be on the bench (not saying he shouldn't play for England again, but was he match fit?)
- If you don't back them, don't pick them. Isiekwe on the bench, bringing on the 77th minute is pointless (Some backs cover would have been more useful)
- If a player is having a great game, you don't have to use your sub. Slightly contradicting to the above point, but did Smith need to come off? Have confidence in your subs that they can change a game, but on the flip side, if someone is playing well then impact (a change) might not be needed
Thoughts for Aus game:
- Freeman at 13, Daly at 11 (Nothing against Slade, just good chances to give Freeman a go there)
- Can Davison hold up the scrum at the end of a game? Give him a shot
- Ted Hill on the Bench - Time to give him a chance
- Northmore on the Bench - Valuable minutes to start building some back-up options experience
This game was such a spectacular experience, the coverage was incredible, England were unlucky but you can’t describe their defensive game as strong when they let 3 tries over their line.
A friend of mine, who is a very casual rugby fan, asked me yesterday during the game: “Why are they celebrating a tackle?”
England need to stop celebrating knock-ons and penalties and need to learn how to win. This morning a Planet Rugby journalist (who I suspect is British) gave England’s players a combined 30 more points than somebody else gave the NZ players on the same website. You would’ve thought England won by 20 reading the reviews.
That gives you a good idea why they cannot finish off big matches.
No problem at all with talking up Owen Farrell, George Ford and Finn Smith. However, one of Marcus Smith's superpowers is pulling things out of the fire in the final quarter of games. He has done that repeatedly for Harlequins. It always seems crazy when England choose to replace him towards the end of close games.
Great points Tim. The smith vs ford debate is not the conversation to be had.
Set piece and bench lost England the game.
Credit to NZ though, so dangerous and deserved the W.
Wrt replacements, I think there's a lot of flexibility in the pack; locks who play 6, earl can play 7 or 8, currys can play 6, 7, 8. Why do we go for a 6-2 split, with Noone covering the wing? Do we even need a replacement 10 when we have Slade and furbank on the field in an emergency? Can't understand not having some more flair or express pace, good crop of wingers coming through. or go for someone different like Ibitoye?
Completely agree on Ford. How long ago were we playing Argentina at the world cup? People have short memories. He's still class and great to have around for the rest of this WC cycle.
The term ‘closing out a game’ is England’s problem in the last 20 minutes. You can bet sure as hell that the oposition will be throwing everything at you for that quarter if they’re behind and you have to make sure you remain in the ascendency. Bringing on George Ford to ‘manage’ the game is a very neutral decision to make. You need to be turning up the heat in those minutes not turning it down.
Considering that England were playing their first game since the summer and their first game with a full squad since the spring, and were up against a team that has just finished a tournament. This was a good performance.
How can another defeat from the jaws of victory be considered a 'good' performance????
@@rogerkirkham2119 Because of the context in which the game was played.
Considering New Zealand have been together as a group more recently and for longer, it was either a poor performance by New Zealand or a good performance by England.
@@barnigranero5882 I can't see that in scoring three tries the AB's were poor. But I agree that England were good doing well until Borthwick did what he likes to do, snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by replacing Smith for Ford & Spencer for Randall!!!
@@KimiKirkham-bd9cd Yep. So England did well considering the context of the game.
I’m so glad you mentioned Will Stuart Tim. Nothing pretty or spectacular, but he was rock solid at scrum time. That’s what I want from an England Tighthead. Hold the scrum up, don’t go backwards. I really hope he builds on this game as New Zealand’s scrum is right up there. I was also very surprised at how badly the scrum went when Baxter and Cole came on. I really didn’t see that coming at all and it killed momentum and allowed New Zealand to take control of the game.
All in all, the bench was the issue here. It’s not hindsight to say that it was a mistake going with a 6-2 split with a specialist 9 and 10 the back options. Leaving Isiekwe out and having Daly or Sleightholme in a 5-3 split would have been better.
The problem with being, 'not far off' is that you can stay there. To be in the mix with Ireland, NZ, France and SA we have to win as many as we lose!
Whats the point of a 6/2 bench if isiekwe only gets 2 minutes?
Odd isnt it
@@brucefale6132only Rassie has the answers to that 😂
That is a very good point.
Perhaps the reason is because Borthwick really isn't very good at this.
Ford’s body language before the kick was really interesting.
A team is only as good as its players, and we just don’t have the players. We are very close, but we have weaknesses in vital positions. If we had a decent front row (plus subs), a decent 9 and a decent 12, we’d be in a good position. Until then we’ll be a nearly team.
To hammer the point home:
1. We have the worst front row of the home nations.
2. We have the worst centre pairing of the home nations (unless Wales continue not to pick their best pairing)
3. We have the worst 9 of the home nations.
It’s frustrating, because we are pretty strong elsewhere, but these are such key positions.
Fair analysis, I'd mark a few lower though, whereas I'd have 6 as average. So earl down to 6/6.5, rushed out by himself a couple of times, when it wasn't on and no arms cost us.
Lawrence and slade, 6.5, just don't think ot works as an attacking 12/13 combo.
I'd mark itoje up with smith and feyi, he was just immense, a nightmare to play against.
Ultimately yes we lost again, but what a test match, it was just thrilling, bloody brilliant. If we look back to where we were under jones at the end, to where we are, we should be proud of our boys and excited
You can say hes on a journey until the end of this autumn series. He MUST perform this 6 nations.
I love England, but as you have pointed out the short comings are in the scrum and the lack of impact from the bench. I do believe that England's inability to win close games is not down to mental / psychological block or the impenetrable "aura of the AB"s - if we had a Pollard, (SA), or a Ramos, (Fra), or even our beloved Farrell would nail those drop goals / penalties.
We are just coming up a bit short - I believe we can fix the kicking but the scrum and front row issue is a continuous Achilles heel.
I agree with a lot of what you say Tim. The bench is a problem, the scrum definitely went downhill when the replacements came on. I am looking forward to the day when they (when I say they I mean England) get their attack sorted as they have a very strong defence. Marcus needs better support when he makes his breaks.
England are still suffering from the perennial inability to show any attacking flair. Defence was good, the scrum went well for half of the Match, but there's no try-scoring ambition still and it will hold them back.
I completely agree that they didn’t show any great attacking flair like the all blacks. But I would say that in the previous two games they showed some real flair. My guess is the lack of Mitchell and slower ball kills the englands moves. For me the losing 3 winnable games in a row and the consistent poor performances from the bench are the real issue that I don’t really understand, although ik we don’t quite have the depth in some positions
Yep and it is why I have hard time saying Marcus Smith had a great game. He didn't, he was good but great? No, in the entire match England never looked like scoring a try unless ABs helped them to do so.
Smith didn't make any breaks, great passes or kicks that put England in a position to score a try. Intercept was a great read but it wasn't creative. It was opportunistic.
Hi Tim, I thought that was a decent test match. Just thought throughout the game the ABs always looked, even when they were trailing, as if they were capable of putting their foot on the gas and getting their noses back in front. Unfortunately, as you alluded to, the England replacements as in the Calcutta Cup game at Murrayfield failed to live up to their reputations.
It was an absolute belter of television viewing. So exciting. The number of errors was gob smacking, from both sides. The chasm between Ireland/South Africa and France is a worry for world rugby.
Lol. Chasm. Believe me there is no chasm. Maybe a small crack
It looked like England had the measure of the ABs up until the 65-70 minute when instead of continuing to play as they had done to win the game, they looked like they were trying not to lose. Certainly England are back in the mix at the top and improving with some excellent new talent so glass half full.
Missed opportunity against a below par New Zealand. A few players are outstaying their welcome. A few seem to be ‘favourites’ picked on reputation and not on form. Subs killed us. Some strange decisions and ultimately selections. Little impact from bench. Front row change was biggy. And of course no prep and game time Ford. Nuff said.
You’re so defensive about Ford & Farrell it’s actually funny at this point 🤣
England's defense: I recall Kolbe in the 2019 WC final beating forwards to score. In this game, Telea had to beat forwards to score his first try. Is this a coincidence? I think in both instances they were front row forwards defending that wide. Puzzling
Im not disheartened Tim, the AB's are a top 4 team. The talent is there, but at the moment England are not savvy enough to put the best teams away. Hopefully the coaching set up stabalises and if the squad remains consistent too in the next 2 years we'll start seeing more of these 50/50 games as the team matures.
England are still a bit of a 60 minute team. I don't know if that is mental, physical, lack of depth, or a mixture.
Ford had a poor game with a pathetic high tackle that was never going to stop a try and two missed kicks. We should not blame him for the loss and he is a great player and good servant for England. But you have to ask of Borthwick was Ford match ready? Why substitute Smith?
Small margins in test rugby; 2 great teams playing entertaining rugby. Thanks for a very balanced summary
I feel that Englands defence was poor at times. The first two tries allowed the AB.s to just cut through England. Just too easy. Their biggest problem was letting Felix Jones go.
I didn't think England's defense was that great for most of the game. NZ blew chance after chance after big line breaks. Had ABs not made so many handling errors and some atrocious passes/offloads, ABs score 3 even 4 more tries.
Contrast that with England who scored a try of a terrible pass by a AB's SH. Outside of that? I can't remember getting close to scoring a try.
It was a bizarre game.
I completely agree. Improved for 20 mins in second half I felt then went tits up again. Really surprised to hear so many people say the defence was solid
At 14 -19 they didnt want to play anymore with 20 minutes on the clock...the English cap was literally out on his feet. Slow the game down, frustrate and kick penalties - takes a bit more than that to win.
This England team has a bright future with alot of players approaching their peak and alot of very promising young players. And lets be real. that was an incredible game for a entertainment perspective.
Fair rankings for the most part, but jeez spare me the indignation about George Ford. He was a poor selection by Borthwick with a match fit and excellent Fin Smith available. Ford has been subbed on on multiple occasions in the last year or so and the continuity and form has dropped. It’s not a one off. I don’t care if he’s “been class” or is a hero in your eyes, he really didn’t deliver today. And this test match rugby. That flap at Telea was pitiful, and not the first time Ford’s defence has been lacklustre. He then lacked the composure to kick two very kickable match winning goals. The Randall pass wasn’t that bad frankly, could have been lower but was more or less in the pocket. We don’t need “experienced” players like Ford, or Cole for that matter, if they don’t make a net contribution. Pick on form, plan around a World Cup cycle, all day, every day. We’re three years out and Borths has huge latitude to actually build. Ford’s last world class game was vs Argentina in the WC. Since then, demonstrably over the hill. It is in no shape, way or form unfair to hold that view, and you framing it like a fickle fan whinge is some weak nonsense.
I felt like we needed another ball player at 12 in that game. Never saw Furbank step up into that spot.
But miles ahead of where we were 2 years ago. Keep building.
What was the reason that there was no-one to lead the singing of the New Zealand national anthem?
If Marcus smith was fit enough to go for the whole match I feel like England is winning that match, his game management was patient yet pointed,
Interesting points tim, but i guess the big question is how England improve? Do you stick woth these players and coach them better, or do we need to introduce new blood more quickly, especially in the front row?
Tim I think you don’t understand what England was trying to do.
The way England played had a bit in common with the way SA played at one stage. If you play that style, your defense is your attack. You keep playing field position and press the opposition into making mistakes.
A structure that doesn’t produce beautiful constructed tries just opportunistic plays.
If Mark Talea Played more test matches…he would be a good contender for Player of the year (coming from a South African👀👀)
English scrum was good but I did notice that when ABs had forward momentum then england would ease up and then the ABs pro would go down... I dont know if I saw that correctly. It was a weird game... English came speeding out but didn't keep the energy like they did in semi of 2019. England had a few opportunities to win this game...
A little flattering on some of those.
Not sure how you saw 7.5 for Curry, 6 for Genge, of that 5 for Ford. In fact, no idea what you see in Ford, and that has nothing to do with the kicks he missed today. But, hopefully England keep playing him, it's better for the Southern Hemisphere teams. If England had played Marcus Smith for the last 3 years, there are alot of results that might have been very different. With him there, the team's potential to turn nothing into something in the blink of an eye is always a threat ... Farrell never provided that, & neither does Ford. Test matches between the top teams are so close now days, that those few moments, of often individual brilliance, are what turn games. Sititi's pass to put away Tele'a, and Tele's ability to finish that 75th min try were good examples of that 'X factor'.
NZ have about 6 players with that X factor, the Boks / Ireland / Scotland about 4 or 5 each, England have Marcus Smith & most likely Feyi-Waboso if he continues to grow.
As always Tim, your insights and unbiased and informative commentary, even while wearing your England cap, is very much a highlight I look forward regularly, You are a credit to the game! Thank you from a Saffa and SH supporter, I believe England deserved to win. Happy for NZ though!!
You want itoje and martin on the pitch as long as possible. Isiekwe is there incase of injury
@888young2stop that deserve to win garbage bro.
Objectivity is always the sporting way!
Worth a video on the rule change for escort chasers of box kicks, seemed to make a big difference.
As an English supporter from NZ, I truly believe this English squad is so close to RWC glory if they can sort out this morale issue.
And especially the attacking needs a massive improvement.
But I believe they can do it!
Another no arm tackle from Earl was the turning point, rather than being in attack, we handed over three points and got NZ back in the game
Re. Forde and your “Show me a day when an international player…”
But it was kicking out of hand and off the ground…And… it was his tacking or lack of it-again-his poor body positioning and technique.
He has no pace, you know he’s not a running threat.
So when you have smart, spontaneous players like F Smith available why choose to play with your handbrake on with Forde? This is elite rugby that requires quick minds and the unpredictable to unlock well organised defences.
Shouldn't the centers score better if the fly-half is so excellent? If Marcus had such a great game, wouldn't the players outside him feature more in the game?
As a player of 20-plus years at all levels in England and finally, in the U.S., I suspect that psychology is a major factor. At age sixteen I moved to the U.S. and was shocked by how much greater a killer instinct players have in the States. This became blatantly apparent when I returned to England at age 21 to go to university. In the U.S. the press does not attack their players when they fail, I was absolutely astounded by the treatment that Farrell was subjected to. England need more players who wear their hearts on their sleeves. I was in total disbelief at the autumn 2022 N.Z. international after overcoming a 3-try deficit in the last 5 minutes and N.Z. down to 13 players for M. Smith to kick the ball into touch rather than play for a win.
Thought the game was great. England have not got the "killer instinct". As a Saffer, I'm looking forward to the game in two weeks time
Your ratings reflects your loyalty to the England team, which might be maybe slightly "ambitious" taking todays performance in consideration.
If England want to play that way they need to bring in players like Freddie Steward who shine in that style. Think of the MoTM awards he won before Borthwick tried to open the style up with Furbank etc.
As a Kiwi I don't understand why Eng don't run their dangerous backs and utilise Smiths talent more. Everything else ( except prop depth) is mega.
Clark and Telea are L&R wings for the Blues, so these is their natural positions. Telea is MUCH better on the right!
1st 1/2 Abs indiscipline allowed Eng stay in the game with little penetration into the Abs 22m. The scrum was good but did little to punish the ABs. The defence was good yes but better teams can get turnover to make an attack & Eng can't do this. Why? Then last 20mins Eng fell apart & is this with the bench? Smith made a good intercept & set up the try & that was it! Baxter struggled with NZ size. Englands backline made less breaks & the cross kick employed was nullified. Borthwick 'Journey' is over done maybe he is to. I feel the departure of Jones was an effect. Why? Some good turnover with zero counter other than kicking ball away. England looked knackered .
I don’t even know what to think, we are cooked at 10. Marcus is a great kicker and good on the counter but our set piece attack looked headless. I said bring Ford on then he has a defensive nightmare and misses those two kicks…we are so set everywhere but prop and 10 it’s painful
I think Marcus was great his centers offered nothing of note though.
@ isn’t that on him to call those running lines though? Not like Slade and Laurence are incapable of hitting good lines, maybe the attacking coaches fault.
@@videoaddict961 i'd have to watch the game again mate but live it looked like the game plan so probably a bit of both. I saw Ollie had 2 carries and 2 passes the whole game. They started with a cross kick in their 22, that has to be playing to a plan. Also just watching live England were never going to be expansive. I wonder what would have happened if NZ didn't give away those first half pens. I mean of my manager or boss gives instructions why would I bot follow them; it's why I'm getting paid and if it doesn't work well blame them right?
@@enriquenelson4516 Well I agree I think it was the game plan and that plan was relying heavily on Marcus’ improvisation. As a quins fan it’s deadly at prem level but I’m skeptical of how much was can rely on it with international defences. Especially against Ireland and SA, I think we have proven we are the same level of the All Blacks we are just lacking winning instinct generally.
@videoaddict961 Who would you start? I don't see Ford setting the backline alight
England's centers offered nothing on attack, NZs also tbh as a side note, but if Marcus had better centers England could have cooked. The pack were really dominant for 60 minutes.
Feels like could shoulda woulda for England in the last 3 games with New Zealand. Are they far away? No, they are very close but i don't think as close as what is being said. That last 1% is the hardest to get amd some teams never get it
As a neutral I thought it was a great game. Agree England’s attack is lacking at the moment, but Marcus Smith kept them in the game, particularly during the first half.
England keep picking players on reputation not form. Ford, Slade, T Curry picked on past efforts. Need to inject more pace in forwards and backs. When will England realise. Need Hill, T Willis, move Freeman to OC centre and have Sleightholme on wing. Too much kicking to teams with quicker backs is madness. Borthwick out of depth as coach as he was an International player.
Great game Tim, thought you had it in the last few mins. What did you think of the new kick law, seems to have opened up the game a lot more and gives a real threat with the high ball. Also, did you watch the Munster - very good game.
The three tests between ABs and Eng have been the three best tests of the year (from a Bok supporter).
The top four rugby teams have reached a point where the team with the fittest players will win matches. Just now the Springboks appear to be that team; perhaps because having the largest number of rugby players to call upon, generates the desire of potential representative players to be at peak fitness,
The better team won but it’s a worry for England that they couldn’t beat a very out of sorts AB side who had no direction themselves. The ABs were poor and it was just individual ability that got them their tries. Even with the ref on England’s side they couldn’t win
Agree the Abs are poor but the ref on Englands side ? Think you must of had a few if you think that. How the Abs got away with no yellow before they did was crazy. A nailed on deliberate knock on that somehow Gardner missed and almost gave the Abs a try was somehow not a yellow ? The tackles off the ball ? At least 5 of them ? Going into the ruck off the feet ? Only someone one eyed would think the ref was biased. He’s just not very good .
What a game! Why sub Smith?? MS played well, kicking game was on par and read the game well. England should of won
Tim over generous on the ratings. Re Randalls pass. Have a look at Dawson to Wilkinson to win the world cup ? It wasn't a clean pass & off his week foot. Lets place in some perspective. Finn Smith shud be in as part of the rebuild. Seen the post-math interviews & Borthwick claims that Fords missed kick was a goalpost width from going over? My Dog ate my homework.
Borthwick is looking like a paint by numbers coach. A good plan going into games but no adaptation during the games to on field dynamics. Poor bench execution is on him. Lack of front row options are outside his control. He will get better as an international coach.
England are in the mix for 3rd/4th best in the world but i think SA and Ireland are the clear top 2. France will be better this year with Dupont back in the fold as well.
Said this would happen when he was announced as England coach. He’s looking to get England playing the Leicester style, which makes no sense to me given the attacking resources in the Premiership currently outweigh the stock of quality forwards available for England selection, but Roundheads are gonna Roundhead.
Ford is still a world class 10 and almost single-handedly got us to a RWC semi in a struggling team. However, it was a bad day at the office for him. The miss tackle on Telea and the missed penalty were both unusual errors which suggests he was undercooked (not his fault but rather a management decision which didn't pay off). He has in the past taken a few games to get back to his best form and the same is true here. Yes, you want your best players on the field but if they are coming back from injury, surely that is a moment to test players from the wider squad. Players like Fin Smith, Lozowski, Northmore, Davidson and co. need to be given opportunities or we are just simply waiting for players like, Cole, Ford, Slade and Marler to get injured or retire. In the meantime you learn nothing from these fringe players. However, there are bigger issues at play 1) Our attack lacks innovation and deception 2) How many tight games do we have to throw away before bringing in some of the U20s props. I admire Borthwicks loyalty and wanting to keep a core group of experienced players in the squad but he needs to jettison young, in-form young players quickly to find out if any of them are world class. The game is changing where the attack is as if not more important than defence. Simply put, we need to score more tries to keep up with the likes of France, Ireland and NZ.
Majority of those guys are on the new contracts so either way it’ll be them that has to work it out because you can’t see steve looking elsewhere
Sorry but Ford's weak tackle on Tele'a needs to be pointed out. It was a deciding factor.
I understood the drop goals vs Argentina and SA in the WC. And the Ford one yesterday.
I’m confused by smiths option to do it twice in the first half and vs Ireland in the 6 nations. If you have penalty advantage in a very kickable position go for the try and 5 points
It's a friendly, let's judge them on the block of games and see how they develop throughout. Hell of a learning for Fin Baxter, will only stand him in good stead for the future.
I can understand that you would want to find positives from the game, but one intercept try? If you want to be really honest it's the same old record playing isn't it?
Thanks Tim. I would have given Spencer a 5 if I’m honest. Thought he was painfully slow at times and whilst he’s not going to be as quick as Mitchell or Randall I thought what he offered in the way of kicking (what he usually is good at) was very average and he got caught out a few times.
Do we think there is a fair drop off in quality after Mitchell? Only time will tell.
Hey Tim,
Got a questions or a observation or both Furbank is a great prem player but honestly I don’t think he is a test player I know you have him a 7 because he made a pass to the try and got there I’ll question that as you gave 7’s to guys who went thru buckets of work thru the game.
I think England should have moved Marcus to 15 when they wanted Ford on and I honestly think they win that test match but who knows.
I got question marks over Harry R as well if he is a test player?
Over all a solid performance from England 👌🏉
Love your content 🫶🏼🏉🫶🏼
I think England has got something special in Will Stuart Tim. They just need to learn how to capitalize on their scrums.
All I would say on Englands attack (and I do agree totally we need more threatening multiphase) how many England attacks in the NZ half were shut down by off the ball tackles? There aren’t that many attacking opportunities in the op 22 in an international test and NZ shut down a fair few from off the ball tackles and the knock down. They weren’t all stopped due to England inadequacy