Great analysis Tim. We must just remember as well in 2021, 2022 and some of 2023 Rassie was Director of SA rugby, and that is where he has put in 80% of all his hard work behind the scenes in the development of SA rugby. From schools right through to under 23s and women's rugby. This guy is just in another league. Just like you get phenomenal players who comes along once in 20 years, so do the coaches, and Rassie are one of those I feel. Great show as always.thanks Tim🤙🇿🇦😎
Well-said. Speaking as an Englishman, I wish we had the SARU setup and someone with Rassie’s vision leading the game here. In a variation on the saying, he might be a bellend but at least he’s your bellend. English rugby is still too caught up in its culture of forelock-tugging and trough-grovelling. Little wonder 2003 feels like sheer luck the further it recedes from memory…
@@gunner4life568He’s been called out a few times for gamesmanship, testing the limits of the laws to breaking point, and the like. But I’m sure he’s not always the pantomime villain he is sometimes portrayed as being.
@@feliscorax He never broke any laws, or rules. You can go and listen to any rugby podcast or analyst. He finds the loopholes, or he tries things which other people don't even think of, or are too scared to do, and then when it works for the Boks then everyone is all of a sudden up in arms. Look how he transformed the bench. All the teams are now basically using a 6-2 split, and it's not long before one of them will be brave enough to also try a 7-1. Rassie is a tactical genius, and the rest just follows.
And the subscribers continue to grow. I’ve learnt more from Tim’s channel regarding other teams (including our Springboks) than any other channel. Well done boet! May you continue to spread the word. 🇿🇦🇿🇦
You are a force for great optimism in Rugby. Your love of the game rises above national pettiness, which is so much needed now. We need to grow rugby globally. Rugby needs investment. We've lost too many club sides here in England.
From the outside it appears he had a long-term plan for SA rugby and worked tirelessly to make it happen. We can only look on in England with envy - we need someone with his vision at the helm.
Tim - we must organise a trip for All English Fans to come to South Africa. To see how passionate we are. Loose or win we will always love our team. We have a deep love for rugby and England can do with a bit of that. If the media are tough on the team then the fans must keep the passion going and support the team. Come one England you can pull through! All the way from the “garden route”.
Slightly incorrect there, South Africa has also gone through a point where we watched the games, but werent true supporters. If we missed the game no biggie, it became more of an excuse to have a braai and get pissed than watch the expected loss, we knew the outcome and would just watch the highlights of the loss. England probably feel the same at this point as they, themselves are also die hard fans. How i personally felt during the 201* era
Maanie Libbok is our George Ford. But we are his supporters so we don’t boo when he walks on. We cheer and support because we know Maanie is a brilliant rugby player. You can’t perform if people around you lose faith in your ability.
We Saffas like you a lot, Tim, because you have a balanced point of view. May Eggchasers have a long life! England will be back again. English supporters should just have 3 months more patience
The issue is experience and the ability to think outside the box. Borthwick has limited experience and it hangs off that. Some in the England camp as forwards coach under Eddie (and similar roles at Bristol and with Japan), 2 years at Leicester and now 2 at England as Head coach. Rassie had 3 years at the Free State Cheetahs in Currie Cup and Super Rugby, 1 year as the Technical Advisor for South Africa, 4 years for Western Province and the Stormers, 1 year as the Technical Specialist for South Africa again, and then 2 years at Munster. So before even becoming Springbok coach, he had 13 years coaching experience. He has always been a maverick with the rules of the game. At Free State at the very beginning, he sat on the roof of the grandstand waving instructions to players. He used his traffic lights system. Even as a player he would use computer programs that he helped develop to analyze games. He has so many ‘firsts’ to his name whether it be the ‘bomb squad’, 2 day alignment camps (playing for a greater purpose than yourself), and so much more.
I just love Rassie, not as a coach, but as a human being - not only does he expect the best from others, he holds himself to the same standard but England should chin up, what the team needs most now is motivation instead of degradation by the media (South African media and fans do the same when we lose).
You hit the nail on the head Tim, people want "the next shiny toy out the box" a quick fix! Obviously results are important but time need to be given to try out players and not discard players that have given great service for England.
Hear hear! This is exactly why I watch this channel. I get so angry when I read england fan comments on Facebook or hear sound bites of grass root podcasts. It's a strict diet of eggchasers youtube channel and podcasts. It's the only English media that truly loves rugby
Thank you for this. I am South African and I think the English rugby team are awesome. The media are just out for a quick buck and people lap it up. Fail fast and learn.
Tim, you guys are pressing the panic button waaaay too soon with Borthwick! He is on the right track ....patience!!! Your British media is the biggest problem for England Rugby. The same issue occurs for England national football team - they get overhyped to the point that they can never deliver. At least the England Rugby team have a great chance by comparison! Lastly, your policiy on overseas players needs to change. It was something Rassie did very early in his tenure - players have to earn for their families too and our exchange rate kills us financially speaking. Great podcast as per usual mate!
Well done Tim, this it is much needed, that someone says it. My 2 cents, as a South African who is subscribed to the Telegraph I can’t believe what I’m reading how the journalists (and hence, comments from readers) talk down their own team (after watching all the games). A win record % itself deserves a big asterisk when there are so many one pointers and two pointers in there. Yes there is a “wanting to win” and all that, but sometimes it is just luck. South Africa fielded much of a B team against Scotland, which was a risk, just so it could have the best ready for England. With best I mean, best of the season, with one injury forced change the same starting lineup that thrashed in in form All Black (and Bok) beating Argentina. That was the team Rassie saved for England, at a risk. But England disrupted SA, and it ended up still being a game where SA was behind at the start of the last quarter. If that isn’t a sign England is respected, I don’t know what is.
Rassie´s honesty made all the difference. He was very open with Rugby SA and the public that he has a long term plan to build structures and depth, which meant he was willing to lose a few matches to achieve that. Although he was still ripped by the media and the minority of fans, SA rugby and knowlegable fans backed him. And over these 5 years we have seen the fruits of his plans. Borthwick need to share his plans and English Rugby must support him publicly. But does English Rugby truly believe in him?
The issue with the English media is that it will hype a team or even players up just to lambaste them as soon as they have an opportunity. Not only in rugby, but football and cricket as well.
I think the real problem is when you have the best resources in the world and preform so badly that it’s a huge disappointment to all English people. In the world of rugby and many sports England have underperformed big time, you are up against tiny countries like NZ Ireland Wales and poor nations like SA and England with all their resources should dominate instead they lag behind and this is the reason both supporters and media lose their sh1t , and so they should expect better.
@@davidwalker2402I think that’s fair. We should be competing with the best nations _most_ of the time. It’s not entitlement, it’s just counting. The player base should give us competitive teams but I still think our talent ID and pathways from schools warrants a deep re-examination.
Right, let’s get some perspective here guys. England have lost 8/13 since the semi final. However the total points they lost by was 36 in those 8 games. 2 of those games were against the world champions and 3 of them were against NZ. The remaining loses being Scotland as usual, France and Australia. Only the Australia game was against a team ranked lower than us. No I don’t like SBs style, but I just don’t understand this doom and gloom. Someone has to win a game or rugby and someone has to lose. England don’t have any more right to win that anyone else and to lose so tightly against better opposition is no shame. Posted this on Facebook in reply to some people losing their minds.
Tim, good arguments. I think that Rassie shapes the spectator narrative in his news conferences. And maybe this is what Borthwick should do more. Rassie tells us what he plans to do and explains what happened. He takes us with them almost as another squad member. It's not a black box. We get his philosophy and understand his choices (mostly eg Manie and Willie). This is the 1st year he is not only focusing on the WC. All the other years we were inconsolable in our anger with his tinkering and constant changes. Rassie shaped not only the players but gave the mad spectators a role. International rugby is not just about what happens at a single game. It is a journey the coach takes a country on.
As an Australian who has lived in South Africa, the US and was schooled in England, (10 years) I can confirm your suspicion. No country matches the self destructive vitriol that the English press and non critical thinking public inflict on themselves. It is all in the mind. Same goes for the cricket and football.
I agree. Before the Springbok game, I told my English supporter friend that the top four teams were five points away from each other. The margins are so small that it's absolutely crazy. The next three would be plus or minus 10 points per game behind, which are so small that upsets could easily happen. A couple of years ago, our Boks were really struggling, but once they stuck with one guy through thick and thin, things started to change!
Great video, Tim. The margins are small, completely agree. But what vexes me (and maybe other England fans) are: 1) the faith he has in players without form, 2) there are too many players with 50+ caps (look at the sh*t Wales are in) because new and/or form players are not selected, 3) as a result there isn’t the strength in depth, so the bench is weak, 4) the tactics are one dimensional with no adaption to what is happening on the field. Those small margins would be closed quickly with an overall different approach.
This England team is at a point where things can go either way. There’s a very high possibility of them just getting things right and the reverse is also possible but to a lesser probability. How the England fans and media deal with this phase will determine what happens next.
I think your quote from Rassie sums up the difference between the 2 coaches. And that difference accounts for the fine margins you're talking about. The clip from Rassie where he says "I didn't see enough pain in their faces" lives rent free in my head. World class leader
Thanks for another great insightful video Tim. The England Team is not too far off, 5 close games against the Boks and the ABs in the last 12 months. All 5 games had both the Boks & All Blacks fans on the edge of our sits. Give it time and they'll come right 🏈
A key facet of England’s problem is clearly recruiting and retaining world class assistant coaches. I don’t think Borthwick is a bad coach, but the best coaches don’t want to work for him, which is worse than being a bad head coach.
As an outsider, the toxicity of the English fans against their own players is a very weird thing. I don’t think it helps that the media build it up like England *should* be winning everything though - that’s just not realistic. One thing the RFU needs to change quickly is the rule preventing France-based players being selected. It’s not worked to stop people moving, and it’s basically just an act of self harm. At the very least, they should allow Borthwick to pick a couple of overseas players for every game.
I'm a poor South African. Can't afford to go to matches. Can't afford pay TV. For Springbok tests I go to my elderly parents to watch the game. I've not read the other comments but would like to say something in reply to above video. Poor Steve Borthwick. He needs more time... A national squad needs national and club teams to have a similar vision and cooperation. Rassie by being coach and director of coaching has had the chance to create this. He and Jacques N has seen the players he is coaching now from their teenager days. They were even dodging off to provincial teams to help them rectify specific problems whether it was defence, adapting to new rules or just explaining the national teams needs. So add Player/ youth development to the success recipe. Yes our High Schools have a system where a teacher/ coach takes a age group through there 5 years at High School. It works! Jake White had his World cup winners for the junior world cup years earlier. Luckily he was still/ back in the system in 2007. That ? Henry chap (NZ Coach) lost to France in 2007, but they kept him. The core of his team that won the 2011 cup gave Steve Hansen his 2015 cup and remember Hansen was part of the coaching staff already in 2011. Consistancy in policy, methodology and team environment (personnel) builds confidence for the players and in systems. It has worked for Ireland despite a smaller player base and less funding. By likeminded club coaching and a successfull youth systems they are a top 4 team and changed coaches seamlessly. But it started in Joe Schmit's tenure. He is a truly great coach. He teaches skills to (even mature) players. You want him somewhere in your system probably working with young/ developing players. Warren Gatland is a great coach. Wallis must just support him and get the union house in order. Warren Gatland uses what he has and develop/ selects what he want. Big players was the flavour of the month when he was successfull with Wales before (but he has been good at all levels where he coached if he was in the position long enough) and he embraced it and took it to extreme with great success. Clive Woodward copied him. He needs time, support from all officialdom and administrators in Wallis. Finances and youth/ player development has not produced so rather make changes there. I do not think Steve Borthwick is a great coach but I'll defnitely keep him in the England structures. They are loosing with the similar small margins that SA is winning. It is just a matter of time and they'll be winning those matches. Smith is a very talented player but Eddie Jones saw that first. If they still had Eddie he would have identified more stars. England's Finances, Press and Lords (Woodward) and ex captain's Bill Beaumont and Martin Johnson are their biggest problems. England fired Eddie Jones too soon. Australia fired Eddie Jones too soon. He was building up a team for the Aussies that would become competitive. His rough practice sessions might just have been a bit tough for Australia because of their small player pool. Even the mighty England started running out of players in his time. He identified Marcus Smith's talent. Jake White like Eddie Jones can make a team win a better team on a specific day. That is what you need in Semi finals and finals, it is a gift but their teams must first get there... I think Jake, Rasnaber (acknowledgement to afrikaans youtube broadcaster Raakvat Rugby who taught me the term) and Joe are pass masters of analising the opponents with Eddie Short behind them. Johan Ackerman is a great underdog and gradual team build coach. John Plumtree works wonders with mentally mature players. He'll win you titles with them even after their heyday. Remember SA is a country where we fire coaches by fax (Louis Luyt), we fire coaches for phone calls being bugged (Markgraaff was a good coach), we even put pressure on coaches in the December Holidays (Harry Viljoen, his big entourage of specialsts was ahead of his time)) with no test imminent. I've always felt even unsuccessfull coaches bring things to the table. Carel Du Plessis gave guys game time which helped Nick Mallet choose a team that won 17 matches in a row. (It Seems Rassie is trying to build to the game Carel envisioned - was Carel before his time, no, probably did not have the players with the skillset and the time to develop it.) These coaches show the next coaches which combinations do not work. Coetzee did the same for Rasnaber. If SA kept Jake White or chosen Heyneke Meyer as coach for 2011 we would have played in the 2011World cup Final. De Villiers did pick the right players though. We are still very happy if we win in New Zealand. We often loose against Australia and Argentina if we play in their country. A win is not a given and we moan but we get over it. Rassie's innovative; a politician in front of a microphone and very lucky*, but like Gary Player says, the more I practise the luckier I get. Rassies teams win and loose matches by much smaller margins than what you would expect. The Lions and the Irish tours to SA the last few years - if you add the 3 games scores together there is very few points difference but SA won the series. How many 1 point wins did we have in the 2023 world cup? Against Wales tomorrow we'll win by a smaller margin than the Wallabies did last week. If we played New Zealand In New Zealand this year we would not have won 2 games against them. We'll probably loose both games in New Zealand next year. * We might lose a backline player early in a match to injury and the versatile replacement might have an awfull day at the office. That narrow margins are acceptable makes that a game can change totally if the opponents score late. Over confidance makes the Springbok's not show urgency when it might be needed. Rassie is given a lot of free reign - 52 players in one year. Player development before his time at school level has made his challenges on the race front much less than say in Jake White's time. In his time he is lucky with multiple worldclass players to choose from. Such exceptional players are not always going to be available as in the current quantities. Even for the world class player factory of New Zealand this has not been the case the last few seasons. But they'll be there again, Razor Ruddock must just be given time to identify them. We've had an easy end of year tour. No France no Ireland. South Africa have just as big a financial problem as England, Australia New Zealand And Wales. European and Japanese club teams have helped us by giving South Africans contracts. Without it we would not have such player depth. Our players would have shorter careers or not develop to their full potential and possibly be lost for the game before they become test players. I'm worried about this because we might end up with a much smaller base of players only playing in cities. I find it extraordinary that France has so much money at club level and a good national team. They must be doing something right. I think Ex greats and - coaches must not be given too much air time. Clive Woodward, David Campese comes to mind. Play rugby when the conditions are best for a nice game. Don't go and change rules to make the game more attractive but then the players must ply their trade at night in un-ideal conditions for both players and spectaters. I'll gladly get up and go to my folks in the middle of the night to see my rugby. All lovers of the game will and even more if conditions are ideal. Here in SA we get up for american sports (boxing, golf etc.) all the time - broadcasters should try it with our beautiful game. They might be surprised by the number of viewers and the stadiums will also have more spectators. SA and New Zealand have such player depth maybe their second teams must also be given test status and compete on the world stage. Stellenbosch University at one time had a second team playing in the first team league because they had so many talented players. We must develop the game in the smaller rugby playing countries and beyond. Ideal position for captain is loose forward, scrum halve or fly-halve. You need that closeness to the engine room (forwards) and viewing time (to read the game) to be a great captain. Carel Du Plessis never was close to the engine room and never needed to read a game as player - it had an effect on his coaching vision.
Saffa here, I would like to add that the media is not helping the situation by constantly running down the players or the coach. They all have feelings and i'm sure it affects their game. A despondent player will bring the team down. A despondent team lead by a despondent coach is a disaster. Wishing English rugby all the best for the future ( until they play the Boks again).
People forget how catastrophically poor the Boks were when Rassie took over, there's no other coach in the history of the game who could have pulled that job off like he did/has! Hell, who of the other coaching "greats" would have even taken that hospital pass of a job to begin with!? That said, England are actually looking pretty damn good at the moment, they've just been unfortunate the level of teams they've had to face this year, their current win-loss rate is in no way a reflection of their talents or potential. 🤘
Really interesting data. Great insights thank you. Totally agree it has been small margins and we love and support the boys giving there best in the current evolving systems. I guess the only thing of concern to me is why someone as good as Felix decided to go. Also the bench , it does need to give us better impact or dynamic options and we have talent to do this. Ted Hill gives a different mobility angle and would complement cunningham south power option of the bench too. I am totally behind Steve and the boys. Stay honest with the fans and we will stay with you❤
Side note Tim, you are a very likeable guy. Your knowledge of the game is great, your videos always good. My favorite rugby channel these days, from South Africa.
Think if borthwick was starting with a really strong scrum and an amazing kicker (like SA did) and then could build from there. Considering we have a fairly good kicker and a medicore scrum I think we're doing okay in terms of our progression. The one thing I'd really like to see is a boost to our grassroots and scouting at younger levels, just as Rassie did earlier on in his time here.
I agree that the media go way over the top in this country and my caveat to this autumn is how the progress was hindered by the coaching shenanigans over the summer. However I had serious reservations over Borthwick before he took over and he doesn't fill me with confidence - his coaching group are too matey and massively inexperienced and some of his player selections are just odd. He's missed a great opportunity this weekend to have a look at some new players. I agree that he would really benefit from an experienced head along side him. Final point, I think England fans are so fed up with disappointing results (apart from a brief blip under Eddie) over the past 20 years that patience has gone out of the window.
Tim - great perspective. The world has become so unforgiving. Unnecessarily so. It is a world of "rage" from politics to finance to sport. My view is that if the RFU were to fire Borthwick then what is the realistically better alternative? As a Bok supporter it has been a great few years but the wheel will turn as it always has and will always be.
Not only English fans. I South African Rugby fan was there, at Ellis Park in 2018, with the test against England, Rassie (and Kolisi)’s first game. England had a brilliant start, goong 3 tries up in a very short time. Another fan behind me stood up, took his stuff, and left the stadium, cursing loudly saying he was done with SA Rugby, he’ll go home to prevent the rush. SA went on to make an epic comeback, and win that game in the nick of time. The guy who walked out missed one of the best Bok games ever, with a ticked he had paid for. Sometimes it’s the way people are. We have short memories and loose perspective.
Tim what you are saying is such a universal truth. Reality is only your perception of it! England and fans, change your perception of the team! It will go a long way in changing your reality! SAFFA objective opinion.
Great analysis Tim!! Very circumspect! 👌🏻 Another very interesting breakdown of the stats is how many wins and losses are within 1 score. The Boks lost 2 by one point in 2024, but won 3 by 1 in 2023…
Really well thought through Tim. SB is struggling at the moment I thought we were flattered in the World Cup. No idea what happened to Argentina in both games I don’t think we could live with them currently. I think we need to be patient and allow him to mature into the role and establish himself as competent coach internationally building a quality team of coaches around him. Completely agree with the concept of mentoring SB? . The RFU need to think about succession plans the whole sale lurch from coach to coach isn’t good creates an environment of the fear of failure which while it motivates its nit a great form of motivation As a always a quality assessment can’t believe Willis isn’t in the outfit.
As usual, Tim is spot on, these are tiny margins and we (the english) do love a moan for no real reason. That said...there HAVE to be questions about the experience and quality of the coaching staff as a group now we've lost Felix and Aled. On paper the new defence coaches stats are not good at all, Wiggles is basically in his first coaching job and no.2 to SB. I personally don't have any issues with SB and his style but for him to be a by the numbers guy he needs an inspirational, out of the box thinking figure around him to balance him out and also for the players to latch onto. It does feel like the coaching team is missing that 'mad genius' role which Rassie obviously plays for SA and Felix would probably have player for us.
I think what Borthwick needs is more quality around him. We just don't have a credible coaching team as a whole. Get some high achieving quality coaches in there and I think our execution goes through the roof
As a bok supporter all I can say to England is don't panic. Steve is doing a massive job and England are playing great rugby. For sure England are world class and can beat any team on the day.
Tim, it is people like you changing the playing field. As in politics, where the role of the legacy media is diminishing fast, so will it diminish in sport. Carry on your good work, it will make an impact on the rugby landscape in England.
Very astute. Hits the nail on the head. And there is no human emotion. Well done. Eggchasers has a handle on the sport. As a Springbok supporter, I am a little biased, but on the day England puts their head down and plays to the best of their training. Every one at that level has talent. No question.
I've listened to your comments - really enjoy your videos. from a Bok supporter, We as South Africans believe that we should beat England. The mindset gives us the advantage...we expect to beat you whereas you hope to beat us. Not being arrogant but that's how we think
Spot on as usual. England are so close to turning a corner. I think they will show the doubters up in this six nations. p.s. I’m Scottish so definitely not biased towards England.
Borthwick doesn't learn anything - that's the problem. The other problem is that many of our best players are ineligible because of the ridiculous selection rule. We need 1) an elite coach and 2) the removal of the policy of non-selection of overseas-based players. It's not rocket science. With those two changes we'd soon be back in the top three.
Just based on observations, if I were an England supporter my biggest concern about Borthwick would not be his win/lose record. It would be his personal style, relatability and honesty. You can be a good technical coach but you need genuine chemistry with your players and fans, win or lose.
So right, Tim. When Rassie took over we were in a state of despair. Wondering where to get a decent coach after the previous 2 disasters. Brendan Venter seemed like our only vague hope.
Spot on Squire, it’s about time the press stops the Dooms Day attitude they are no better than the rest of British Press, a Rugby fan from South Africa
You touched on it early in the video, Rassie built foundations between 2019 and 2023. He built foundations on a unified development program in South Africa. I don't know if England has a Craven Week, or if the clubs have youth teams. That is where it starts and Rassie built on that by looking at more than just one channel to advancement. He also speaks to provincial coaches a lot, does England have that culture? Most importantly, Rassie built a culture in the Springboks of not playing for career stats but playing as if you were playing your last game. I get the feeling that a lot of England players are playing for career stats and transfer value.
The perspective is simple. England are doing well. Their only bad results this year have been against Australia and against Wales. The 3 NZ games have been good, the SA game was okay and the Ireland win was awesome. Should we beat NZ? Hopefully, but 50/50 at best. Should we beat SA? No. Should we beat France? Maybe, but 50/50 at best. Should we beat Scotland? Perhaps, but probably not on paper. Should we beat Ireland? Probably not, yet we did.
Definitely a structural and policy issue. Let overseas players play for Engeland-change that policy. That is half the problem. It will create more experienced personnel and depth for the England coach to be more competitive. Improve the players conditioning by 10-20% and they will be a great threat again. England is not far off the mark. It is not disastrous at all and it is not a coach problem at all
Well I managed to get through all of it Tim, even the bit when "South African fans all said with one voice, Hey Sainsburys...." I guess that's the risk of the adverts. Anyway onto some thoughts whilst I feel you make so good points about the overseas players and you're totally correct about the fine margins, it just doesn't feel like England are either improving with the players they have, nor in the process of bringing new players in. Basically we seem to be doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Personally I never felt Borthwick was the right pick for the job but, outside of Mark McCall, who'd not want the job, it's hard to think of anyone involved in the Premiership who's be a better pick Very concerned about the loss of assistant coaches too, feels like a continuation of the chaos under Eddie..
Hear! Hear! Excellent video Tim. It's frustrating as an England supporter listening to & reading articles from MSM - they are never optimistic & continually put the side down. Unfortunately Borthwick doesn't help this issue - or his players & England supporters - as his demeanor is so standoffish, he doesn't take us on a journey with him. 😊
Still not convinced Borthwick is the right person. But agree that it might too early to tell and he should be given more time. Just because Rassie survived a rough patch does not mean that Borthwick will pull through and that all will come right. He urgently needs to improve communication skills and explain loss of key coaches. A bit more honesty about his own mistakes and willingness to adapt would also be welcome. I want him to prove me wrong and he should be allowed more time. Structural changes at RFU are urgently needed.
Good analysis as always Tim. England need to stick together, but the big change need to come in the props bringing through the next generation in the six nations. Yes they will get dominated by betterr props, but ithat experience will pay dividends long term. The other change needs to come in the bench strategy which currently makes the team worse when they come on unlike the top 4 teams who bring on game changers.
I think you hit the nail on the head with your fitness comment. The last 20 minutes of each close game they looked spent, which doesn't help decision making. They need a fitness overall and structural reshuffle when chasing the game. They will better next season for sure.
HiTim,England should trust and put some believe in the coach n his player selection cause i as a south African bok believe u guys are on the right track.patience buddy patience .let the english media talk the talk.❤
Yes the margins are fine at this level. But that's the difference between a good head coach and a bad one. Borthwick has had almost 2 years. The key attribute for a head coach is selection. He's got that terribly wrong in places. His tactics and subs have also backfired. The England coaching team have little or no experience. Just group of mates. Not an elite team.
I agree on the press. One thing England really could learn is to communicate better. The same old soundbites gets tiring. It makes it easy to pile on and for the press to write their narrative.
Even Itoje is getting plenty of stick from the keyboard warriors. Great video and bang on the money. I’ve reached the stage where I read the comments from non England fans to get an objective assessment of where we are.
As a South African and Springbok supporter, I must highlight Marcus Smith is, without a doubt, the best flyhalf in the world. Every time he touched the ball, I developed haert palpitations. Great player!!!
There is nothing wrong with boring rugby - play the game in the opposition half - batter the pack into submission (takes a lot of heart, blood and guts), then the back line would finish the game off. This is what rugby fans want see....
As a South African fan, I do agree with you 100%. Thought the English team played really well and was rather dissapointed with the comments after the matches. All the games they have played on the Autumn nations series could literally have gone either way. Springboks were lambasted for playing boring rugby all over social media for a few years, Rassie stuck to it. Do think England made a mistake with alienating Felix Jones, they're paying for him and with his inside knowledge on SA they should have put their differences aside and tapped into that knowledge. In SA, you might find the provincial squabble regarding players, but we LOVE our players, I don't believe I have ever heard a South-African booing one of our own players when they run onto the field. I don't recall any other nation ever doing it, from the outside that's just wrong
Saffa here, in Scotland. England need time to build around Marcus. Marcus needs time to develop at 10 at test level. English media needs to be less toxic, but that is asking a leopard to change its spots. Ignore what the media says and build a team with realistic expectations and get seniour players to lead by example. Genge has been poor and Jamie George has been struggling too. There are others players making to many defensive mistakes too. The more time they get to train and play together the better, aka aligment camps.... England have plenty resources to turn this around. Ignore the media and remember no player steps on that pitch to piss on everyones chips. Chin up my rugby brothers and put in the work.
Nice work i dont see anyone else to this kind of analysis on wining percentages 👍. And i agree england should be able to get players no matter where they are from
The England team doesn't have that big a problem. I think the problems mostly in the expectation (in time) with the Press and also a substantial portion of the English fan base. I've lived here in the UK a long time and as a Bok supporter, its difficult to watch my English mates being so brutal when they talk about anyone (Borthwick or players).Sure, be a little pissed off when its a loss. But be glad in the competitiveness. These are great players and coaching staff at hand. @eggchasers, great video, sums up well this.
Some really good points Tim. In addition to Rassie's impact, SA also has a freakishly talented generation of players born between 1991 and 1995 or so ('golden generation' is overused but with two RWC wins I think it's valid). Is this a known phenomenon? Any SA fans know why?
Borthwick can't naturally work with the media. Pre and post game interviews are alienating, this gives oxygen to media's negative messaging and this must have an impact on players and coaches. The silence of what happened with coaches in the summer is another example of this. We don't know why they left, could be Borthwicks people management skills or the RFU inferring, or really bad luck. Three so close is generally a bad smell. If the coaches leaving had been handled differently in the media, notice periods or happened over a longer period I think the messaging in thr media about Borthwick would be different now. The whole hring mates thing aslo feeds this narrative, the RFU should have been more savvy
Great channel Tim. I think England are not that far off, but I fear they may have reached a ceiling. The difference between winning narrowly and losing narrowly is quite clear. The bench. Rassie worked this out 4-5 years ago and spent that time building a squad of not 23 but more like 33 (or perhaps more). Unfortunately for England supporters this does not happen overnight. It is a project that takes a minimum of 2-3 years. Keep up the good work china. Go Bokke.
Not an England fan but I have to agree. England's performance in the world cup was unreal, particularly one Mr Ford. Grinding out wins is fine, it builds character in a team. Look at SAs 1 point wins in the WC. He's a top class English coach which is important. Back your team.
Tim, at the time of his appointment Rassie said that he’ll not accept the job if SARU didn’t agree to structural changes, which included picking SA players not playing in SA. He appreciated that Springbok rugby was being hobbled, and that nothing that he did on the field would be sustainable in the long run if the structural issues were not resolved. Where have you heard of a head coach going to watch schools rugby (as Rassie does)? Craven Week is a big part of the engine that drives Springbok rugby, pumping out loads of potential players by the busload. The academy system further nurtures and prepares those potential stars. So what Rassie did was to align all of the components of the conveyor belt and we are seeing the results on the field. Unless other teams can do something similar, the coming years will be dark for them. BTW IMHO the results for England will come soon. They’re not half as bad as their results (and some fans and pundits) suggest.
I think you're close to being right, but the mentality has to change. This autumn nations wasn't a series for the likes of Slade and Ford and Cole and George. It was a series to push the claims of those on the fringes and perhaps even new blood. Put them in against some class opposition and ignore the scorelines, focus on performance, growth, and development. Instead we'll lumber into the 6 nations on the back of a poor year from our mostly first team and it will take only a few injuries for us to have to field players who are inexperienced in a full-on competition. I do think we have some top class players, but our front 3 and our centres have been misfiring for too long now. We also have that English tendancy to go into our shells when things are not working and we start playing percentages. Finally, after all those games, does anyone know what this Steve Borthwick's England's style of play is? As for our awful defensive shape...
For me, the big problem is that England always want to be someone or something other than English. We wanted to be the AB's for decades, then France, now SA. Part of the problem is that it's getting harder to identify exactly what English rugby actually is. Is it a power game? Pace, accuracy and inventive back play?, a mixture of styles and the ability to switch mid game which certainly seems to be missing right now? We need to settle on an identity, we need to ditch the overseas rule, we need root and branch reform of the RFU because they definitely do NOT care about English rugby and haven't done for what feels like forever. We probably do need to replace Borthwick and Wigglesworth and pretty quickly because they have taken England backwards. Will any of this happen? Probably not.
I am a simple man. I see an Eggchasers video, and I click.
I am, too, simple, i click and click the thumbs up
click like before finishing the video
@ that’s a given!
❤
I love this simplicity 🤌🏾
Could not agree more mate. The sensationalism is absolutely ridiculous. Brilliant perspective that should be heard by all England fans!
Great analysis Tim. We must just remember as well in 2021, 2022 and some of 2023 Rassie was Director of SA rugby, and that is where he has put in 80% of all his hard work behind the scenes in the development of SA rugby. From schools right through to under 23s and women's rugby. This guy is just in another league. Just like you get phenomenal players who comes along once in 20 years, so do the coaches, and Rassie are one of those I feel. Great show as always.thanks Tim🤙🇿🇦😎
Well-said. Speaking as an Englishman, I wish we had the SARU setup and someone with Rassie’s vision leading the game here. In a variation on the saying, he might be a bellend but at least he’s your bellend. English rugby is still too caught up in its culture of forelock-tugging and trough-grovelling. Little wonder 2003 feels like sheer luck the further it recedes from memory…
100% spot on
@@feliscorax how is he a bellend?
@@gunner4life568He’s been called out a few times for gamesmanship, testing the limits of the laws to breaking point, and the like. But I’m sure he’s not always the pantomime villain he is sometimes portrayed as being.
@@feliscorax He never broke any laws, or rules. You can go and listen to any rugby podcast or analyst. He finds the loopholes, or he tries things which other people don't even think of, or are too scared to do, and then when it works for the Boks then everyone is all of a sudden up in arms. Look how he transformed the bench. All the teams are now basically using a 6-2 split, and it's not long before one of them will be brave enough to also try a 7-1. Rassie is a tactical genius, and the rest just follows.
And the subscribers continue to grow. I’ve learnt more from Tim’s channel regarding other teams (including our Springboks) than any other channel. Well done boet! May you continue to spread the word. 🇿🇦🇿🇦
You are a force for great optimism in Rugby. Your love of the game rises above national pettiness, which is so much needed now. We need to grow rugby globally. Rugby needs investment. We've lost too many club sides here in England.
Rassie has access to the best players because of the structures he put in place to develop players
Fully agreed
From the outside it appears he had a long-term plan for SA rugby and worked tirelessly to make it happen. We can only look on in England with envy - we need someone with his vision at the helm.
Remember 57-0 loss against New Zealand that's what he inherited
Exactly. All these world class players didn't just spring up out of the ground one day.
And this is why this is the only rugby channel I subscribe to. Analysis, balance and no hype.
Tim - we must organise a trip for All English Fans to come to South Africa. To see how passionate we are. Loose or win we will always love our team. We have a deep love for rugby and England can do with a bit of that. If the media are tough on the team then the fans must keep the passion going and support the team. Come one England you can pull through! All the way from the “garden route”.
If you pay for my trip I’ll be there and we will enjoy all the rugby on the way
Slightly incorrect there, South Africa has also gone through a point where we watched the games, but werent true supporters. If we missed the game no biggie, it became more of an excuse to have a braai and get pissed than watch the expected loss, we knew the outcome and would just watch the highlights of the loss. England probably feel the same at this point as they, themselves are also die hard fans.
How i personally felt during the 201* era
Maanie Libbok is our George Ford. But we are his supporters so we don’t boo when he walks on. We cheer and support because we know Maanie is a brilliant rugby player. You can’t perform if people around you lose faith in your ability.
Well said👍👍
We Saffas like you a lot, Tim, because you have a balanced point of view. May Eggchasers have a long life! England will be back again. English supporters should just have 3 months more patience
This was a very well put together video. Well done Tim.
As per usual. I am a fan of Tim's channel. Would love to share a cold one with him.
The issue is experience and the ability to think outside the box. Borthwick has limited experience and it hangs off that. Some in the England camp as forwards coach under Eddie (and similar roles at Bristol and with Japan), 2 years at Leicester and now 2 at England as Head coach. Rassie had 3 years at the Free State Cheetahs in Currie Cup and Super Rugby, 1 year as the Technical Advisor for South Africa, 4 years for Western Province and the Stormers, 1 year as the Technical Specialist for South Africa again, and then 2 years at Munster. So before even becoming Springbok coach, he had 13 years coaching experience. He has always been a maverick with the rules of the game. At Free State at the very beginning, he sat on the roof of the grandstand waving instructions to players. He used his traffic lights system. Even as a player he would use computer programs that he helped develop to analyze games. He has so many ‘firsts’ to his name whether it be the ‘bomb squad’, 2 day alignment camps (playing for a greater purpose than yourself), and so much more.
Tim's been busy the last few days 😅, love all the videos 🔥
I just love Rassie, not as a coach, but as a human being - not only does he expect the best from others, he holds himself to the same standard but England should chin up, what the team needs most now is motivation instead of degradation by the media (South African media and fans do the same when we lose).
You hit the nail on the head Tim, people want "the next shiny toy out the box" a quick fix! Obviously results are important but time need to be given to try out players and not discard players that have given great service for England.
Hear hear! This is exactly why I watch this channel. I get so angry when I read england fan comments on Facebook or hear sound bites of grass root podcasts.
It's a strict diet of eggchasers youtube channel and podcasts. It's the only English media that truly loves rugby
Thank you for this. I am South African and I think the English rugby team are awesome. The media are just out for a quick buck and people lap it up. Fail fast and learn.
Tim, you guys are pressing the panic button waaaay too soon with Borthwick! He is on the right track ....patience!!! Your British media is the biggest problem for England Rugby. The same issue occurs for England national football team - they get overhyped to the point that they can never deliver. At least the England Rugby team have a great chance by comparison! Lastly, your policiy on overseas players needs to change. It was something Rassie did very early in his tenure - players have to earn for their families too and our exchange rate kills us financially speaking. Great podcast as per usual mate!
England have a good structure on the field. Things to work on but if you have the athletes- errors are technical and not a problem.
Well done Tim, this it is much needed, that someone says it. My 2 cents, as a South African who is subscribed to the Telegraph I can’t believe what I’m reading how the journalists (and hence, comments from readers) talk down their own team (after watching all the games). A win record % itself deserves a big asterisk when there are so many one pointers and two pointers in there. Yes there is a “wanting to win” and all that, but sometimes it is just luck.
South Africa fielded much of a B team against Scotland, which was a risk, just so it could have the best ready for England. With best I mean, best of the season, with one injury forced change the same starting lineup that thrashed in in form All Black (and Bok) beating Argentina. That was the team Rassie saved for England, at a risk. But England disrupted SA, and it ended up still being a game where SA was behind at the start of the last quarter.
If that isn’t a sign England is respected, I don’t know what is.
Rassie´s honesty made all the difference. He was very open with Rugby SA and the public that he has a long term plan to build structures and depth, which meant he was willing to lose a few matches to achieve that. Although he was still ripped by the media and the minority of fans, SA rugby and knowlegable fans backed him. And over these 5 years we have seen the fruits of his plans. Borthwick need to share his plans and English Rugby must support him publicly. But does English Rugby truly believe in him?
Tim u doing a good job carry on from a springbok fan from south Africa.
The issue with the English media is that it will hype a team or even players up just to lambaste them as soon as they have an opportunity. Not only in rugby, but football and cricket as well.
The issue with the English media is they think a Rugby team losing is somehow a world changing event when it isn't.
I think the real problem is when you have the best resources in the world and preform so badly that it’s a huge disappointment to all English people. In the world of rugby and many sports England have underperformed big time, you are up against tiny countries like NZ Ireland Wales and poor nations like SA and England with all their resources should dominate instead they lag behind and this is the reason both supporters and media lose their sh1t , and so they should expect better.
@@davidwalker2402I think that’s fair. We should be competing with the best nations _most_ of the time. It’s not entitlement, it’s just counting. The player base should give us competitive teams but I still think our talent ID and pathways from schools warrants a deep re-examination.
@ I fully agree with the correct pathways to success and these should be reviewed soon and brought up to date as other nations are doing now.
Right, let’s get some perspective here guys. England have lost 8/13 since the semi final. However the total points they lost by was 36 in those 8 games. 2 of those games were against the world champions and 3 of them were against NZ. The remaining loses being Scotland as usual, France and Australia. Only the Australia game was against a team ranked lower than us.
No I don’t like SBs style, but I just don’t understand this doom and gloom. Someone has to win a game or rugby and someone has to lose. England don’t have any more right to win that anyone else and to lose so tightly against better opposition is no shame.
Posted this on Facebook in reply to some people losing their minds.
I agree mate Some of those games could easily gone our way, looking forward to the 6nations
I 100% agree. Especially with the no right.
Every game is a two horse race.
Don’t worry England will rise once again 🏴🏉
Balance the loss against Australia with the Grand Slam spoiling win against Ireland with Smith being the man on the day.
No idea why you don't like the SB style. England's is so similar.......
Tim, good arguments. I think that Rassie shapes the spectator narrative in his news conferences. And maybe this is what Borthwick should do more. Rassie tells us what he plans to do and explains what happened. He takes us with them almost as another squad member. It's not a black box. We get his philosophy and understand his choices (mostly eg Manie and Willie). This is the 1st year he is not only focusing on the WC. All the other years we were inconsolable in our anger with his tinkering and constant changes. Rassie shaped not only the players but gave the mad spectators a role. International rugby is not just about what happens at a single game. It is a journey the coach takes a country on.
SUCH a good point. He is not easy to warm to...I do wish he would loosen up, but it's sadly not his style
As an Australian who has lived in South Africa, the US and was schooled in England, (10 years) I can confirm your suspicion. No country matches the self destructive vitriol that the English press and non critical thinking public inflict on themselves. It is all in the mind. Same goes for the cricket and football.
I agree. Before the Springbok game, I told my English supporter friend that the top four teams were five points away from each other. The margins are so small that it's absolutely crazy. The next three would be plus or minus 10 points per game behind, which are so small that upsets could easily happen.
A couple of years ago, our Boks were really struggling, but once they stuck with one guy through thick and thin, things started to change!
Great video, Tim.
The margins are small, completely agree. But what vexes me (and maybe other England fans) are:
1) the faith he has in players without form,
2) there are too many players with 50+ caps (look at the sh*t Wales are in) because new and/or form players are not selected,
3) as a result there isn’t the strength in depth, so the bench is weak,
4) the tactics are one dimensional with no adaption to what is happening on the field.
Those small margins would be closed quickly with an overall different approach.
This England team is at a point where things can go either way. There’s a very high possibility of them just getting things right and the reverse is also possible but to a lesser probability. How the England fans and media deal with this phase will determine what happens next.
I think your quote from Rassie sums up the difference between the 2 coaches. And that difference accounts for the fine margins you're talking about. The clip from Rassie where he says "I didn't see enough pain in their faces" lives rent free in my head. World class leader
Just love how you unpack and substantiate with figures,you still calm without bashing other entities keep them coming non stop.
Some great insights, as a dual SA and UK citizen benefit double from this video 👍
Thanks for another great insightful video Tim. The England Team is not too far off, 5 close games against the Boks and the ABs in the last 12 months. All 5 games had both the Boks & All Blacks fans on the edge of our sits. Give it time and they'll come right 🏈
A key facet of England’s problem is clearly recruiting and retaining world class assistant coaches. I don’t think Borthwick is a bad coach, but the best coaches don’t want to work for him, which is worse than being a bad head coach.
As an outsider, the toxicity of the English fans against their own players is a very weird thing. I don’t think it helps that the media build it up like England *should* be winning everything though - that’s just not realistic.
One thing the RFU needs to change quickly is the rule preventing France-based players being selected. It’s not worked to stop people moving, and it’s basically just an act of self harm. At the very least, they should allow Borthwick to pick a couple of overseas players for every game.
You seen how toxic the England football fans are? They throw bottles etc at the England coach at football games. It's awful.
I'm a poor South African. Can't afford to go to matches. Can't afford pay TV. For Springbok tests I go to my elderly parents to watch the game. I've not read the other comments but would like to say something in reply to above video. Poor Steve Borthwick. He needs more time... A national squad needs national and club teams to have a similar vision and cooperation. Rassie by being coach and director of coaching has had the chance to create this. He and Jacques N has seen the players he is coaching now from their teenager days. They were even dodging off to provincial teams to help them rectify specific problems whether it was defence, adapting to new rules or just explaining the national teams needs. So add Player/ youth development to the success recipe. Yes our High Schools have a system where a teacher/ coach takes a age group through there 5 years at High School. It works! Jake White had his World cup winners for the junior world cup years earlier. Luckily he was still/ back in the system in 2007. That ? Henry chap (NZ Coach) lost to France in 2007, but they kept him. The core of his team that won the 2011 cup gave Steve Hansen his 2015 cup and remember Hansen was part of the coaching staff already in 2011. Consistancy in policy, methodology and team environment (personnel) builds confidence for the players and in systems. It has worked for Ireland despite a smaller player base and less funding. By likeminded club coaching and a successfull youth systems they are a top 4 team and changed coaches seamlessly. But it started in Joe Schmit's tenure.
He is a truly great coach. He teaches skills to (even mature) players. You want him somewhere in your system probably working with young/ developing players.
Warren Gatland is a great coach. Wallis must just support him and get the union house in order. Warren Gatland uses what he has and develop/ selects what he want. Big players was the flavour of the month when he was successfull with Wales before (but he has been good at all levels where he coached if he was in the position long enough) and he embraced it and took it to extreme with great success. Clive Woodward copied him. He needs time, support from all officialdom and administrators in Wallis. Finances and youth/ player development has not produced so rather make changes there.
I do not think Steve Borthwick is a great coach but I'll defnitely keep him in the England structures. They are loosing with the similar small margins that SA is winning. It is just a matter of time and they'll be winning those matches. Smith is a very talented player but Eddie Jones saw that first. If they still had Eddie he would have identified more stars. England's Finances, Press and Lords (Woodward) and ex captain's Bill Beaumont and Martin Johnson are their biggest problems.
England fired Eddie Jones too soon. Australia fired Eddie Jones too soon. He was building up a team for the Aussies that would become competitive. His rough practice sessions might just have been a bit tough for Australia because of their small player pool. Even the mighty England started running out of players in his time. He identified Marcus Smith's talent.
Jake White like Eddie Jones can make a team win a better team on a specific day. That is what you need in Semi finals and finals, it is a gift but their teams must first get there...
I think Jake, Rasnaber (acknowledgement to afrikaans youtube broadcaster Raakvat Rugby who taught me the term) and Joe are pass masters of analising the opponents with Eddie Short behind them.
Johan Ackerman is a great underdog and gradual team build coach.
John Plumtree works wonders with mentally mature players. He'll win you titles with them even after their heyday.
Remember SA is a country where we fire coaches by fax (Louis Luyt), we fire coaches for phone calls being bugged (Markgraaff was a good coach), we even put pressure on coaches in the December Holidays (Harry Viljoen, his big entourage of specialsts was ahead of his time)) with no test imminent. I've always felt even unsuccessfull coaches bring things to the table. Carel Du Plessis gave guys game time which helped Nick Mallet choose a team that won 17 matches in a row. (It Seems Rassie is trying to build to the game Carel envisioned - was Carel before his time, no, probably did not have the players with the skillset and the time to develop it.) These coaches show the next coaches which combinations do not work. Coetzee did the same for Rasnaber.
If SA kept Jake White or chosen Heyneke Meyer as coach for 2011 we would have played in the 2011World cup Final. De Villiers did pick the right players though.
We are still very happy if we win in New Zealand. We often loose against Australia and Argentina if we play in their country. A win is not a given and we moan but we get over it.
Rassie's innovative; a politician in front of a microphone and very lucky*, but like Gary Player says, the more I practise the luckier I get. Rassies teams win and loose matches by much smaller margins than what you would expect. The Lions and the Irish tours to SA the last few years - if you add the 3 games scores together there is very few points difference but SA won the series. How many 1 point wins did we have in the 2023 world cup? Against Wales tomorrow we'll win by a smaller margin than the Wallabies did last week. If we played New Zealand In New Zealand this year we would not have won 2 games against them. We'll probably loose both games in New Zealand next year.
* We might lose a backline player early in a match to injury and the versatile replacement might have an awfull day at the office. That narrow margins are acceptable makes that a game can change totally if the opponents score late. Over confidance makes the Springbok's not show urgency when it might be needed.
Rassie is given a lot of free reign - 52 players in one year. Player development before his time at school level has made his challenges on the race front much less than say in Jake White's time. In his time he is lucky with multiple worldclass players to choose from. Such exceptional players are not always going to be available as in the current quantities. Even for the world class player factory of New Zealand this has not been the case the last few seasons. But they'll be there again, Razor Ruddock must just be given time to identify them.
We've had an easy end of year tour. No France no Ireland.
South Africa have just as big a financial problem as England, Australia New Zealand And Wales. European and Japanese club teams have helped us by giving South Africans contracts. Without it we would not have such player depth. Our players would have shorter careers or not develop to their full potential and possibly be lost for the game before they become test players. I'm worried about this because we might end up with a much smaller base of players only playing in cities.
I find it extraordinary that France has so much money at club level and a good national team. They must be doing something right.
I think Ex greats and - coaches must not be given too much air time. Clive Woodward, David Campese comes to mind.
Play rugby when the conditions are best for a nice game. Don't go and change rules to make the game more attractive but then the players must ply their trade at night in un-ideal conditions for both players and spectaters. I'll gladly get up and go to my folks in the middle of the night to see my rugby. All lovers of the game will and even more if conditions are ideal. Here in SA we get up for american sports (boxing, golf etc.) all the time - broadcasters should try it with our beautiful game. They might be surprised by the number of viewers and the stadiums will also have more spectators.
SA and New Zealand have such player depth maybe their second teams must also be given test status and compete on the world stage. Stellenbosch University at one time had a second team playing in the first team league because they had so many talented players.
We must develop the game in the smaller rugby playing countries and beyond.
Ideal position for captain is loose forward, scrum halve or fly-halve. You need that closeness to the engine room (forwards) and viewing time (to read the game) to be a great captain. Carel Du Plessis never was close to the engine room and never needed to read a game as player - it had an effect on his coaching vision.
There was some very good stuff in that. But I grew old and died before I finished it. Please, next time, a little less...
Love your show Tim. Always glued to your comments and views. Keep it up mate.
Saffa here, I would like to add that the media is not helping the situation by constantly running down the players or the coach. They all have feelings and i'm sure it affects their game. A despondent player will bring the team down. A despondent team lead by a despondent coach is a disaster. Wishing English rugby all the best for the future ( until they play the Boks again).
Well said as usual Tim. The margins at this level are so small. I’m glad Rassie is there now but when he took over things were dire.
People forget how catastrophically poor the Boks were when Rassie took over, there's no other coach in the history of the game who could have pulled that job off like he did/has! Hell, who of the other coaching "greats" would have even taken that hospital pass of a job to begin with!? That said, England are actually looking pretty damn good at the moment, they've just been unfortunate the level of teams they've had to face this year, their current win-loss rate is in no way a reflection of their talents or potential. 🤘
He rebuilt a team from Kamp Kaaldrad
Really interesting data. Great insights thank you. Totally agree it has been small margins and we love and support the boys giving there best in the current evolving systems. I guess the only thing of concern to me is why someone as good as Felix decided to go. Also the bench , it does need to give us better impact or dynamic options and we have talent to do this. Ted Hill gives a different mobility angle and would complement cunningham south power option of the bench too. I am totally behind Steve and the boys. Stay honest with the fans and we will stay with you❤
Side note Tim, you are a very likeable guy. Your knowledge of the game is great, your videos always good. My favorite rugby channel these days, from South Africa.
Think if borthwick was starting with a really strong scrum and an amazing kicker (like SA did) and then could build from there. Considering we have a fairly good kicker and a medicore scrum I think we're doing okay in terms of our progression.
The one thing I'd really like to see is a boost to our grassroots and scouting at younger levels, just as Rassie did earlier on in his time here.
I agree that the media go way over the top in this country and my caveat to this autumn is how the progress was hindered by the coaching shenanigans over the summer.
However I had serious reservations over Borthwick before he took over and he doesn't fill me with confidence - his coaching group are too matey and massively inexperienced and some of his player selections are just odd. He's missed a great opportunity this weekend to have a look at some new players.
I agree that he would really benefit from an experienced head along side him.
Final point, I think England fans are so fed up with disappointing results (apart from a brief blip under Eddie) over the past 20 years that patience has gone out of the window.
A very balanced perspective.
Tim - great perspective. The world has become so unforgiving. Unnecessarily so. It is a world of "rage" from politics to finance to sport. My view is that if the RFU were to fire Borthwick then what is the realistically better alternative? As a Bok supporter it has been a great few years but the wheel will turn as it always has and will always be.
Great review as usual from our adopted English brother.
⚡👏🏻🥃🇿🇦
Tim, your logic is on song. I love your insights.
Things are fine for England. We’re playing well and need some hopefully simple tweaks.
At least England score tries now
Love your work, mate ❤. Keep speaking from the heart and with great analysis 👍.
Brilliant Tim. Need to have you analysis on tv
Not only English fans.
I South African Rugby fan was there, at Ellis Park in 2018, with the test against England, Rassie (and Kolisi)’s first game. England had a brilliant start, goong 3 tries up in a very short time. Another fan behind me stood up, took his stuff, and left the stadium, cursing loudly saying he was done with SA Rugby, he’ll go home to prevent the rush. SA went on to make an epic comeback, and win that game in the nick of time. The guy who walked out missed one of the best Bok games ever, with a ticked he had paid for.
Sometimes it’s the way people are. We have short memories and loose perspective.
Tim what you are saying is such a universal truth. Reality is only your perception of it! England and fans, change your perception of the team! It will go a long way in changing your reality! SAFFA objective opinion.
Great analysis Tim!! Very circumspect! 👌🏻 Another very interesting breakdown of the stats is how many wins and losses are within 1 score. The Boks lost 2 by one point in 2024, but won 3 by 1 in 2023…
Really well thought through Tim. SB is struggling at the moment I thought we were flattered in the World Cup. No idea what happened to Argentina in both games I don’t think we could live with them currently. I think we need to be patient and allow him to mature into the role and establish himself as competent coach internationally building a quality team of coaches around him. Completely agree with the concept of mentoring SB?
. The RFU need to think about succession plans the whole sale lurch from coach to coach isn’t good creates an environment of the fear of failure which while it motivates its nit a great form of motivation
As a always a quality assessment can’t believe Willis isn’t in the outfit.
As usual, Tim is spot on, these are tiny margins and we (the english) do love a moan for no real reason. That said...there HAVE to be questions about the experience and quality of the coaching staff as a group now we've lost Felix and Aled. On paper the new defence coaches stats are not good at all, Wiggles is basically in his first coaching job and no.2 to SB. I personally don't have any issues with SB and his style but for him to be a by the numbers guy he needs an inspirational, out of the box thinking figure around him to balance him out and also for the players to latch onto. It does feel like the coaching team is missing that 'mad genius' role which Rassie obviously plays for SA and Felix would probably have player for us.
I think what Borthwick needs is more quality around him. We just don't have a credible coaching team as a whole. Get some high achieving quality coaches in there and I think our execution goes through the roof
Clear, logical, concise as always, Tim.
Like the different video style. Keep up the great work
As a bok supporter all I can say to England is don't panic. Steve is doing a massive job and England are playing great rugby. For sure England are world class and can beat any team on the day.
Tim, it is people like you changing the playing field. As in politics, where the role of the legacy media is diminishing fast, so will it diminish in sport. Carry on your good work, it will make an impact on the rugby landscape in England.
Very astute. Hits the nail on the head. And there is no human emotion. Well done.
Eggchasers has a handle on the sport. As a Springbok supporter, I am a little biased, but on the day England puts their head down and plays to the best of their training. Every one at that level has talent. No question.
A fantastic summary, Tim. Thanks 👍🏼.
I've listened to your comments - really enjoy your videos. from a Bok supporter, We as South Africans believe that we should beat England. The mindset gives us the advantage...we expect to beat you whereas you hope to beat us. Not being arrogant but that's how we think
Spot on as usual. England are so close to turning a corner. I think they will show the doubters up in this six nations. p.s. I’m Scottish so definitely not biased towards England.
Borthwick doesn't learn anything - that's the problem. The other problem is that many of our best players are ineligible because of the ridiculous selection rule. We need 1) an elite coach and 2) the removal of the policy of non-selection of overseas-based players. It's not rocket science. With those two changes we'd soon be back in the top three.
Just based on observations, if I were an England supporter my biggest concern about Borthwick would not be his win/lose record. It would be his personal style, relatability and honesty. You can be a good technical coach but you need genuine chemistry with your players and fans, win or lose.
So right, Tim. When Rassie took over we were in a state of despair. Wondering where to get a decent coach after the previous 2 disasters. Brendan Venter seemed like our only vague hope.
Nkosi, de Jager, Jantjies, Du Toit not hi-lighted as WC winners. Great analysis Tim!!
Spot on Squire, it’s about time the press stops the Dooms Day attitude they are no better than the rest of British Press, a Rugby fan from South Africa
You touched on it early in the video, Rassie built foundations between 2019 and 2023. He built foundations on a unified development program in South Africa. I don't know if England has a Craven Week, or if the clubs have youth teams. That is where it starts and Rassie built on that by looking at more than just one channel to advancement. He also speaks to provincial coaches a lot, does England have that culture? Most importantly, Rassie built a culture in the Springboks of not playing for career stats but playing as if you were playing your last game. I get the feeling that a lot of England players are playing for career stats and transfer value.
Great perspective Tim. - From South Africa
It does astonish me that England hasn’t adapted their laws for player eligibility.
The perspective is simple. England are doing well. Their only bad results this year have been against Australia and against Wales. The 3 NZ games have been good, the SA game was okay and the Ireland win was awesome. Should we beat NZ? Hopefully, but 50/50 at best. Should we beat SA? No. Should we beat France? Maybe, but 50/50 at best. Should we beat Scotland? Perhaps, but probably not on paper. Should we beat Ireland? Probably not, yet we did.
Definitely a structural and policy issue. Let overseas players play for Engeland-change that policy. That is half the problem. It will create more experienced personnel and depth for the England coach to be more competitive.
Improve the players conditioning by 10-20% and they will be a great threat again. England is not far off the mark. It is not disastrous at all and it is not a coach problem at all
Well I managed to get through all of it Tim, even the bit when "South African fans all said with one voice, Hey Sainsburys...." I guess that's the risk of the adverts.
Anyway onto some thoughts whilst I feel you make so good points about the overseas players and you're totally correct about the fine margins, it just doesn't feel like England are either improving with the players they have, nor in the process of bringing new players in. Basically we seem to be doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Personally I never felt Borthwick was the right pick for the job but, outside of Mark McCall, who'd not want the job, it's hard to think of anyone involved in the Premiership who's be a better pick
Very concerned about the loss of assistant coaches too, feels like a continuation of the chaos under Eddie..
Hear! Hear!
Excellent video Tim. It's frustrating as an England supporter listening to & reading articles from MSM - they are never optimistic & continually put the side down.
Unfortunately Borthwick doesn't help this issue - or his players & England supporters - as his demeanor is so standoffish, he doesn't take us on a journey with him. 😊
Rassie created the amazing pool of players that he selects from.
Still not convinced Borthwick is the right person. But agree that it might too early to tell and he should be given more time. Just because Rassie survived a rough patch does not mean that Borthwick will pull through and that all will come right. He urgently needs to improve communication skills and explain loss of key coaches. A bit more honesty about his own mistakes and willingness to adapt would also be welcome. I want him to prove me wrong and he should be allowed more time. Structural changes at RFU are urgently needed.
Good analysis as always Tim. England need to stick together, but the big change need to come in the props bringing through the next generation in the six nations. Yes they will get dominated by betterr props, but ithat experience will pay dividends long term. The other change needs to come in the bench strategy which currently makes the team worse when they come on unlike the top 4 teams who bring on game changers.
I think you hit the nail on the head with your fitness comment. The last 20 minutes of each close game they looked spent, which doesn't help decision making. They need a fitness overall and structural reshuffle when chasing the game. They will better next season for sure.
HiTim,England should trust and put some believe in the coach n his player selection cause i as a south African bok believe u guys are on the right track.patience buddy patience .let the english media talk the talk.❤
Yes the margins are fine at this level. But that's the difference between a good head coach and a bad one. Borthwick has had almost 2 years. The key attribute for a head coach is selection. He's got that terribly wrong in places. His tactics and subs have also backfired. The England coaching team have little or no experience. Just group of mates. Not an elite team.
I agree on the press. One thing England really could learn is to communicate better. The same old soundbites gets tiring. It makes it easy to pile on and for the press to write their narrative.
England is in hella good shape, they are just unfortunate at the last 20mins against the southern hemisphere. That doesn’t make em rvbbish. 🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦
Even Itoje is getting plenty of stick from the keyboard warriors. Great video and bang on the money. I’ve reached the stage where I read the comments from non England fans to get an objective assessment of where we are.
As a South African and Springbok supporter, I must highlight Marcus Smith is, without a doubt, the best flyhalf in the world. Every time he touched the ball, I developed haert palpitations. Great player!!!
There is nothing wrong with boring rugby - play the game in the opposition half - batter the pack into submission (takes a lot of heart, blood and guts), then the back line would finish the game off. This is what rugby fans want see....
As a South African fan, I do agree with you 100%. Thought the English team played really well and was rather dissapointed with the comments after the matches. All the games they have played on the Autumn nations series could literally have gone either way. Springboks were lambasted for playing boring rugby all over social media for a few years, Rassie stuck to it. Do think England made a mistake with alienating Felix Jones, they're paying for him and with his inside knowledge on SA they should have put their differences aside and tapped into that knowledge. In SA, you might find the provincial squabble regarding players, but we LOVE our players, I don't believe I have ever heard a South-African booing one of our own players when they run onto the field. I don't recall any other nation ever doing it, from the outside that's just wrong
Saffa here, in Scotland. England need time to build around Marcus. Marcus needs time to develop at 10 at test level. English media needs to be less toxic, but that is asking a leopard to change its spots. Ignore what the media says and build a team with realistic expectations and get seniour players to lead by example. Genge has been poor and Jamie George has been struggling too. There are others players making to many defensive mistakes too. The more time they get to train and play together the better, aka aligment camps.... England have plenty resources to turn this around. Ignore the media and remember no player steps on that pitch to piss on everyones chips. Chin up my rugby brothers and put in the work.
Nice work i dont see anyone else to this kind of analysis on wining percentages 👍. And i agree england should be able to get players no matter where they are from
The England team doesn't have that big a problem. I think the problems mostly in the expectation (in time) with the Press and also a substantial portion of the English fan base.
I've lived here in the UK a long time and as a Bok supporter, its difficult to watch my English mates being so brutal when they talk about anyone (Borthwick or players).Sure, be a little pissed off when its a loss. But be glad in the competitiveness. These are great players and coaching staff at hand. @eggchasers, great video, sums up well this.
Some really good points Tim. In addition to Rassie's impact, SA also has a freakishly talented generation of players born between 1991 and 1995 or so ('golden generation' is overused but with two RWC wins I think it's valid). Is this a known phenomenon? Any SA fans know why?
Borthwick can't naturally work with the media. Pre and post game interviews are alienating, this gives oxygen to media's negative messaging and this must have an impact on players and coaches.
The silence of what happened with coaches in the summer is another example of this. We don't know why they left, could be Borthwicks people management skills or the RFU inferring, or really bad luck. Three so close is generally a bad smell.
If the coaches leaving had been handled differently in the media, notice periods or happened over a longer period I think the messaging in thr media about Borthwick would be different now.
The whole hring mates thing aslo feeds this narrative, the RFU should have been more savvy
Well said mate. Long may you continue with the EggChasers viewpoint.
Great channel Tim. I think England are not that far off, but I fear they may have reached a ceiling. The difference between winning narrowly and losing narrowly is quite clear. The bench. Rassie worked this out 4-5 years ago and spent that time building a squad of not 23 but more like 33 (or perhaps more). Unfortunately for England supporters this does not happen overnight. It is a project that takes a minimum of 2-3 years. Keep up the good work china. Go Bokke.
Awesome show..I think that was Francois Louw the flanker in the reserves,also a WC winner..
You are correct
Not an England fan but I have to agree. England's performance in the world cup was unreal, particularly one Mr Ford. Grinding out wins is fine, it builds character in a team. Look at SAs 1 point wins in the WC. He's a top class English coach which is important. Back your team.
Tim, at the time of his appointment Rassie said that he’ll not accept the job if SARU didn’t agree to structural changes, which included picking SA players not playing in SA. He appreciated that Springbok rugby was being hobbled, and that nothing that he did on the field would be sustainable in the long run if the structural issues were not resolved. Where have you heard of a head coach going to watch schools rugby (as Rassie does)? Craven Week is a big part of the engine that drives Springbok rugby, pumping out loads of potential players by the busload. The academy system further nurtures and prepares those potential stars. So what Rassie did was to align all of the components of the conveyor belt and we are seeing the results on the field. Unless other teams can do something similar, the coming years will be dark for them. BTW IMHO the results for England will come soon. They’re not half as bad as their results (and some fans and pundits) suggest.
I think you're close to being right, but the mentality has to change. This autumn nations wasn't a series for the likes of Slade and Ford and Cole and George. It was a series to push the claims of those on the fringes and perhaps even new blood. Put them in against some class opposition and ignore the scorelines, focus on performance, growth, and development. Instead we'll lumber into the 6 nations on the back of a poor year from our mostly first team and it will take only a few injuries for us to have to field players who are inexperienced in a full-on competition. I do think we have some top class players, but our front 3 and our centres have been misfiring for too long now. We also have that English tendancy to go into our shells when things are not working and we start playing percentages. Finally, after all those games, does anyone know what this Steve Borthwick's England's style of play is? As for our awful defensive shape...
For me, the big problem is that England always want to be someone or something other than English. We wanted to be the AB's for decades, then France, now SA.
Part of the problem is that it's getting harder to identify exactly what English rugby actually is.
Is it a power game? Pace, accuracy and inventive back play?, a mixture of styles and the ability to switch mid game which certainly seems to be missing right now?
We need to settle on an identity, we need to ditch the overseas rule, we need root and branch reform of the RFU because they definitely do NOT care about English rugby and haven't done for what feels like forever.
We probably do need to replace Borthwick and Wigglesworth and pretty quickly because they have taken England backwards.
Will any of this happen? Probably not.
I sense and feel your passion Tim, and fully agree. England should just persist, enough time to build to 2027. The losses were marginal the last year.