Was told by people who were there, that the USS Bainbridge, CGN-25, during the vietnam war would sit, silent and dark just off of the coast, and when the bombers returning to the aircraft carrier went over, they'd wait. If they heard jet engines, it would be all radar on, and weapons free. Smoked a few aircraft trying to follow the bombers back to the carriers. Real sneaky deaky like! ^-^
The USS Sterett would do similar OPs with coastal artillery emplacements. They'd sail just within range to be fired upon. Then, the spotters got to work calling in fire from the USS New Jersey(?) who was beyond visual range of shore. My Dad(USS Sterett CG-31 Weapons Officer)said that after a few times of that happening any remaining costal artillery emplacements had second thoughts about shooting at an US ships offshore. The DDGs and CGs tasked with providing Naval gunfire support to ground forces could do so pretty much unharassed from then on.
Jingles analogy of the flashlight is good, but I would add that when you get noticed, EVERYBODY is looking at you. We would often run out a series of wired field telephones so that radio silence could be maintained. WW2 technology, being used in the 90's
A bit of further clarification about the rules of engagement. Typically, NATO forces would/will issue warnings to the aircraft over international radio to warn them and instruct them to change their flying course away from the ship's/task force's location. Depending on whether the forces involved are at war or at peace, the main practical difference would be how many warnings you give (assuming you haven't positively identified the incoming aircraft as hostiles or neutrals)
Basically maintain EMCON until the enemy knows where you are anyway in which case there's no real point.... slight extra rule - some radars are low probability of intercept (LPI) - basically the radar emission is modulated electronically randomly, so to an extent it looks like random noise when you pick it up and so doesn't look like a radar, the radar system of course knows that that particular random pattern is its random pattern and so can pick up and identify returns with that pattern. In this case you can keep these systems on on without the risk of giving your position away (at least to an extent as when something gets close enough that random pattern becomes powerful enough that it's clear it's not just noise!). Some point defence systems use LPI radars and so can remain on when the ship is in EMCON incase of a surprise attack and I'm sure there's alot more to it than my simple explanation (and likely classified). Also depends on geography - for example the Med is a relatively small area of sea and so it's relatively easy for the enemy to know roughly where you are anyway....
I have heard of radar piggybacking, where they basically use unaware third party civilian radars to get low resolution shadows, then use those shadows to decide if they want to engage detection systems or not based on computer assisted mathematically modelled probabilities. There are also new satellite systems using visual identifiers for real time target tracking. No need to guess where the enemy assets are if you have been keeping continuous eyes on them for the last few YEARS and know their whereabouts within a ~10 minute - 1 hour delay at all times. I believe the UK pioneered this with their autism brigade, giving photo reconnaissance images of empty sectors to a hand selected group of autistic savants, who spotted enemy movements instantly, then feeding that data into a computer to train it. USA has been doing this with Russian assets assaulting Ukraine to give them up to date advice on probable assault sectors.
1986 World Cruise aboard USS Truxtun CGN-35 escorting Enterprise. Left West Pac/Indian Ocean transited the Suez Canal and headed for Libya. We would set EMCON Alpha then move across Gaddafi's "Line of Death", light off everything - radar, radio, even sonar, then move back out hoping they would follow in their little boat. They did a few times, and we chopped them up. Interesting side note. When we departed we were supposed to head back the way we came, though the Suez. But Egypt decided to charge us 100 times the normal rate as we were a nuclear powered battle group, (Arkansas was with us too), and they claimed some danger from this. Admiral said "F it, we'll depart Westward out the Straights of Gibraltar", went around the Cape and got to visit Perth/Freemantle. Awesome! Truxtun then set the record for transit time from Perth to Subic, 100% all the way. Great times!
Jingles, I really look forward to your Sea Power videos. After the first Sea Power video you released, I've been hunting around TH-cam for more like it. After watching another TH-camr, who I'll spare a naming & shaming, somehow only lose 3 harriers and 2 helicopters in suicide attacks against AA defences... well... your videos on Sea Power are a breath of fresh air compared to what I've seen elsewhere. I really enjoy listening to your narration on what is happening and your explanations as to why you've chosen a course of action. I hope to see more Sea Power videos in the future.
Look up ryu1940, i found him very recently. Retired OHP sonar supervisor just getting into making videos about Sea Power. He reminds me of Jive Turkey and his cold waters VODs before he sanitized his channel (now Sub Brief) and deleted/unlisted all of that content. Probably lots of OPSEC snafus over the years, though he was very careful about what he did and didn't say, but I'm devastated I'll never get to hear all the rest of his navy stories.
My uncle was on HMAS Vendetta during the Vietnam War. There's a photo of him laying in a pile of spent shells. Might have been taken during Operation Sea Dragon.
I watched Navy old salt gamer the other day. He had a discussion with one of the developers. U.S. Navy ships have no electronic counter measures activated. The developer checked and to his surprise it was true. They will work on fixing the problem next year. I have noticed the Soviets can shoot our missiles down but U.S. Navy the missiles get through. The above is why!
Those missiles were early 60s tech. There is a video of the entire system around here somewhere. I was stunned. Most people think artillery looks like a cartridge - rarely. You shove the round in then add powder bags. These missiles, esp. the Terriers are assembled on the fly. The process damn near ran the length of the ship. I worked on AIM54C Phoenix missiles - I'm still amazed at the engineering that allowed the USNAVY to splat Russian bombers from sort of 100 miles away. Hell, I'm surprised we have commercial aviation.
I did this mission when I got the game and holy jeebus those 130mm coastal batteries are THE MOST annoying things to take out while keeping your fleet above the water. My O-City had so many holes pricked in her from the 130s that she was a colander by the end of the mission.
Yeah, those coastal batteries are some really annoying and due to the concrete in front of them surprisingly tough buggers (fired probably a full dozen missiles on them. Guess how many actually hit the batteries).
I think this game would be pretty much unintelligible to me if I were just to try to play it, so I really appreciate the commentary and explanations you do to make these videos accessible!
While watching this, it occurred to me how smart Jingles actually is, usually he’s just laughing at stupid people sailing broadside or something, but he actually has a plethora of knowledge and wit as seen in this video
Fun tip I learned that I see a lot of youtubers not know in this game yet: Hold shift after selecting a weapon when you right click targets. It queues them to be engaged sequentially. So you can hold shift and right click like 5 vessels, and the ship will use that weapon to engage those 5 sequentially as missiles become available. Makes it a lot less tedious in major engagements.
We did not have them when I started out so we put on red plastic on the lens to make it red. We did not think of it as low visibility but instead of a way to preserve the adjustment of our eyes when it was dark. Colloured light is great to use in the tent at night or mayby for looking for something in the backpack if unable to find it by touch alone, but it is crap for reading maps if there are red markings on the map. Good old times, may they never return.
@@pfridjonsson7021 The only reason I knew about it was because I asked my dad what they were for. He was a drill sergeant at the time and we would play with them by changing the lens out.
Hey jingles, people do get confused with the ROE. For us Brits when we use the different cards, Alpha, Bravo and Charlie. (Edit: There is the exceptional 429 Alpha, but that is only used in certain circumstances and needs a very high authority.) Alpha for those that don't know is your inherent right to self defence. If the target is perceived to be a threat to life, to yourself or others, or is a threat to equipment which is mission critical, you can engage.
Bravo! Finally a sensible video from one of the big YT channels on this topic. It was starting to get silly seeing all those early access videos with all their ships running around in EMCON and only turning on radars when incoming threats were visually spotted. Seems like everybody was going around feeling like they were submarine commanders staying "stealthy" and just listening with towed arrays, lol.
Love these videos Jingles. Takes me back to when I watch your cold waters videos. I still watch them from time to time cause you present this sort of gameplay very VERY well. You make a slow game actually interesting to watch. Keep up the great work.
Great vid jingles I play a lot of command so knowing when to turn the radars on or off is incredibly useful, especially if they have anti radar weapons!
Yep, this is why orders from on high usually have to be filtered through a good dose of common sense. The "commanders intent" section is by far the most important piece of any op order.
I played this same scenario just a few days ago as my first in the game. I was very annoyed by the fact that following the EMCON order lead to immediate destruction of 2 of my ships. Basically said the same thing as you after that. Following EMCON guidance is what we’d call in the army “METT-TC dependent” minus the TC probably.
Regarding facing off against SS-N-12 missiles, at a flight altitude of 50m the radar horizon on that would be at least 30 km, so having your air search radar on would definitely allow for detection a lot further away as compared to relying on visual sighting without radar.
Wow I don't think I've seen more EMCON stuff on youtube then this last week. But honestly excellent analogy with the flashlight, I think the world of EW is pretty unknown to the general public. That being said, out of all the EMCON videos I've watched recently, no ones discussed the use of radar pickets or TRU's, and if this game has LINK, that's all you should need.
I mean ~technically~ the mission briefing regarding EMCON just said you had to maintain radio silence. At no point did it order you to keep your radar offline...! 😉
You never noticed the scorched paint work after launching missiles, sure it’s not scratched but someone’s going to have to sand it back and repaint the area before the X.O. goes berserk.
The thing is, your orders required you to maintain radio silence until otherwise directed. And not to fire until fired upon. So, your choices are to follow orders and get shot to hell, or to violate orders and hand out a proper butt kicking to the enemy, while coming out unscathed? How does that work out when you get back to base? How do you go about explaining that to your superiors who gave you those orders? Tell them that their orders were dumb and would have gotten the force creamed? And that you decided on your own that you knew better?
Somebody explained in iirc Stealth17's video of this particular mission that low altitude flying + high speed + attack course = hostile intent, so the MiG-17's were free game. The torpedo boats on attack course within 6 nmi's would've probs been regarded as coming with hostile intent so those were free game too probs.
Great video as always please continue to make more of them. Would you ever consider making one of these videos with someone like Dr Clark I think the two of you would be a very interesting pairing to watch.
I’m currently finding this aspect of the game a bit frustrating at the moment. Spoilers for the start of a couple of scenarios below. I tried don’t mess with Texas for the first time which starts with all your ships blasting away on radar. I figured since the scenario started that way and since we weren’t trying to go to war with the Syrians I’d leave them on. I briefly spotted some missiles which then disappeared but figured if there were missiles in the air I should have air search on. Radar didn’t reacquire missiles until immediately before impact and I lost ships. Then I tried Gauntlet which starts EMCON. Not picking up any radar emissions so I thought it fair to assume I wasn’t spotted. Sent a couple of helos out at low altitude to get some separation from the fleet and started searching on radar and dropping sonobuoys. Then got a vampire warning out of the blue with missiles on top of me and no time to launch any counter measures. Should I just assume that I should turn radar on if the scenario starts in EMCON and vice versa? Is this just bad scenario design?
@@lrmunro the key here is to build ‘picture’ or situation awareness. Once you feel it’s sufficient you can do something to change the picture, formations for radar traps, where you emcon a ship in front of your group so it’s not detectable and then launch suddenly. Using air as search to build over the horizon picture.
This reminds me of the Houthis that we’re on a boat that shot at a US Navy helicopter from ten miles away with a .50 machine gun. The maximum range of a .50 machine gun is something like 4.5 miles, well short of the 10 miles between them. It was hostile intent; the ten miles between them was definitely in range of hellfire missiles... it ended poorly for the Houthis.
@@Jason-35D it’s say do not fire unless fired upon, it doesn’t say you have to wait to be hit, or even that what’s fired has to get close. Also it’s about the maxim that’if you’ve found yourself in a fair fight you’ve failed to plan.’
The Mighty Overlord hath bestowed on us an example, not unlike the Kobayashi Maru test, that we may despatch our digital foes at a greater rate. Thus we can worship more through the gathering of The Sacred Sodious Crystals. Ahmine.
It would seem Navy rules of engagement seem to have more wiggle room than Arny ones. I remember seeing a documentary on infantry in Afghanistan and there "Do not fire unless fired upon" was literal. In one case, they could see the Taliban over the other side of the river. They could even see the start of the wire for the IED trigger starting from their position. But they weren't allowed to fire until the Taliban set the IED off. Which injured a soldier. Then again, I suppose a soldier dying is unfortunate. Losing an asset is far worse...
So, the army would watch a guy wearing a suicide vest cross the river and start running straight toward the largest concentration of army soldiers he can see. And they would just watch and do nothing else until AFTER he explodes. Yeah, that sounds like the Army. Is this related to the army term "cannon fodder"? I also see what may be a semi--valid rationale for "fragging". Reminds me of pictures I saw of a couple of Army Generals. Eisenhower, General of the Army in charge of allied forces winning WW 2, and Westmorland, General in charge of American Army losing in Vietnam. Eisenhower had 1 row of ribbons. Westmorland had 6 or 7 rows of what looked like "participation" ribbons.
Great work Jingle! Excellent Video, is there a scenario with RAN craft? I would imagine that a fully RAN force would have a more limited capability than the force in your video. Though I don't think there were full RAN or even full commonwealth (RAN and RNZN) formations either outside of troop transport by HMAS Sydney and HMAS Melbourne. Would be an interesting scenario. I know that RAN ships also had restrictions on what they could fire upon, again, that would be an interesting scenario with ships that have different rules of engagement.
I tried making some early on, an ANZUS CBG getting ambushed by a bunch of soviet subs in the Hauraki Golf, but it broke and i havent been back in to fix it yet.
I always did think that obsessively turning all radar off and only switching them back on when you were already swarmed, like some other youtubers do in this game, was a bit of a weird one. Seemed like a waste of the radar to me
I had a hope that you were going to go through a scenario with a Virginia class CGN given that is what you show in the posting shot. Having qualified as a SWO on one, I was wondering how well you would operate her..
Regarding the liberal use of missiles, two notes to consider in real life: 1) Although missiles are expensive, most ships are much more expensive, and even more so while they're carrying the missiles they could have used to defend themselves. Even if you were on the hook for the cost, better to pay for the missiles than for the convoy of ships that might get sunk. 2) On the other hand, you could engage absolutely every threat with missiles, but the old adage: "Better to have and not need than need and not have" may apply. I'm sure the USN had plenty of missiles, but you still need to reload those missiles. It would be pretty embarrassing (read: possibly fatal) to run out of missiles to defend yourself en route back to base because you decided you wanted to sling missiles at the enemy infantry positions instead of getting within gun range.
In today's day and age, being completely blind radar wise is unconscionable. Yes, I get that there is a need to "go stealth" for certain units or situations, but there should always be an accompanying long range asset, preferably airborne, that is providing some intel. Getting smoked because you CHOSE not to "see" is no way to go.
Was told by people who were there, that the USS Bainbridge, CGN-25, during the vietnam war would sit, silent and dark just off of the coast, and when the bombers returning to the aircraft carrier went over, they'd wait. If they heard jet engines, it would be all radar on, and weapons free. Smoked a few aircraft trying to follow the bombers back to the carriers. Real sneaky deaky like! ^-^
The USS Sterett would do similar OPs with coastal artillery emplacements. They'd sail just within range to be fired upon. Then, the spotters got to work calling in fire from the USS New Jersey(?) who was beyond visual range of shore. My Dad(USS Sterett CG-31 Weapons Officer)said that after a few times of that happening any remaining costal artillery emplacements had second thoughts about shooting at an US ships offshore. The DDGs and CGs tasked with providing Naval gunfire support to ground forces could do so pretty much unharassed from then on.
I have heard that and similar operations by carrier launched airborne radar called "delousing".
Jingles analogy of the flashlight is good, but I would add that when you get noticed, EVERYBODY is looking at you. We would often run out a series of wired field telephones so that radio silence could be maintained.
WW2 technology, being used in the 90's
We still used them when I was in Field Artillery from 2005 to 2011.
Never mind WWII, that's WWI technology.
An old adage comes to mind here! If it ain't broke, don't fix it but, if it's broke, a good whack aught to fix it! 🤣
laying telephone lines is going to be a challenge in case of ships :)
What i can expect to happen (either already, or in the future) will be communication lasers.
Great explanation of EMCON. I used it when I was an instructor in the R.A.N.
this is an explanation that got as Civilian But who military stuff
You absolutely shine when it comes to Sea Power videos....no one better.
fitting for a Rear-General.
@@AgiHammerthiefJingles is the very model of a generally admirable Rear Admiral …
Jive Turkey/Sub Brief: "Am I a joke to you?" (I have no clue if he's played this or what he's like at sea power).
You're joking right?
Stealth17 is also nice to watch.
A bit of further clarification about the rules of engagement. Typically, NATO forces would/will issue warnings to the aircraft over international radio to warn them and instruct them to change their flying course away from the ship's/task force's location.
Depending on whether the forces involved are at war or at peace, the main practical difference would be how many warnings you give (assuming you haven't positively identified the incoming aircraft as hostiles or neutrals)
I was waiting for new Cold waters videos, but these are even better! Now I am just waiting for a new Jingles landing in a submarine.
I’m waiting for a Jingles landing in a CGN.
seeing jingles unstuck himself off the seafloor in cold waters was surprisingly entertaining
Basically maintain EMCON until the enemy knows where you are anyway in which case there's no real point.... slight extra rule - some radars are low probability of intercept (LPI) - basically the radar emission is modulated electronically randomly, so to an extent it looks like random noise when you pick it up and so doesn't look like a radar, the radar system of course knows that that particular random pattern is its random pattern and so can pick up and identify returns with that pattern. In this case you can keep these systems on on without the risk of giving your position away (at least to an extent as when something gets close enough that random pattern becomes powerful enough that it's clear it's not just noise!). Some point defence systems use LPI radars and so can remain on when the ship is in EMCON incase of a surprise attack and I'm sure there's alot more to it than my simple explanation (and likely classified).
Also depends on geography - for example the Med is a relatively small area of sea and so it's relatively easy for the enemy to know roughly where you are anyway....
I have heard of radar piggybacking, where they basically use unaware third party civilian radars to get low resolution shadows, then use those shadows to decide if they want to engage detection systems or not based on computer assisted mathematically modelled probabilities.
There are also new satellite systems using visual identifiers for real time target tracking. No need to guess where the enemy assets are if you have been keeping continuous eyes on them for the last few YEARS and know their whereabouts within a ~10 minute - 1 hour delay at all times. I believe the UK pioneered this with their autism brigade, giving photo reconnaissance images of empty sectors to a hand selected group of autistic savants, who spotted enemy movements instantly, then feeding that data into a computer to train it.
USA has been doing this with Russian assets assaulting Ukraine to give them up to date advice on probable assault sectors.
1986 World Cruise aboard USS Truxtun CGN-35 escorting Enterprise. Left West Pac/Indian Ocean transited the Suez Canal and headed for Libya. We would set EMCON Alpha then move across Gaddafi's "Line of Death", light off everything - radar, radio, even sonar, then move back out hoping they would follow in their little boat. They did a few times, and we chopped them up. Interesting side note. When we departed we were supposed to head back the way we came, though the Suez. But Egypt decided to charge us 100 times the normal rate as we were a nuclear powered battle group, (Arkansas was with us too), and they claimed some danger from this. Admiral said "F it, we'll depart Westward out the Straights of Gibraltar", went around the Cape and got to visit Perth/Freemantle. Awesome! Truxtun then set the record for transit time from Perth to Subic, 100% all the way. Great times!
i've been really digging these sea power videos you have been putting out jingles, not too great at these games myself but they are fun to watch
Jingles, I really look forward to your Sea Power videos. After the first Sea Power video you released, I've been hunting around TH-cam for more like it.
After watching another TH-camr, who I'll spare a naming & shaming, somehow only lose 3 harriers and 2 helicopters in suicide attacks against AA defences... well... your videos on Sea Power are a breath of fresh air compared to what I've seen elsewhere. I really enjoy listening to your narration on what is happening and your explanations as to why you've chosen a course of action.
I hope to see more Sea Power videos in the future.
Look up ryu1940, i found him very recently. Retired OHP sonar supervisor just getting into making videos about Sea Power.
He reminds me of Jive Turkey and his cold waters VODs before he sanitized his channel (now Sub Brief) and deleted/unlisted all of that content. Probably lots of OPSEC snafus over the years, though he was very careful about what he did and didn't say, but I'm devastated I'll never get to hear all the rest of his navy stories.
@@TheFingerman77 Thanks for the recommendation, I'll give it a gander.
I paused everything else I had to watch this as soon as I saw the notification.
A Jingles SeaPower vid? heck yeah!
My uncle was on HMAS Vendetta during the Vietnam War. There's a photo of him laying in a pile of spent shells. Might have been taken during Operation Sea Dragon.
I watched Navy old salt gamer the other day. He had a discussion with one of the developers. U.S. Navy ships have no electronic counter measures activated. The developer checked and to his surprise it was true. They will work on fixing the problem next year.
I have noticed the Soviets can shoot our missiles down but U.S. Navy the missiles get through. The above is why!
Those missiles were early 60s tech. There is a video of the entire system around here somewhere. I was stunned. Most people think artillery looks like a cartridge - rarely. You shove the round in then add powder bags. These missiles, esp. the Terriers are assembled on the fly. The process damn near ran the length of the ship. I worked on AIM54C Phoenix missiles - I'm still amazed at the engineering that allowed the USNAVY to splat Russian bombers from sort of 100 miles away. Hell, I'm surprised we have commercial aviation.
I did this mission when I got the game and holy jeebus those 130mm coastal batteries are THE MOST annoying things to take out while keeping your fleet above the water. My O-City had so many holes pricked in her from the 130s that she was a colander by the end of the mission.
Yes same here
Yeah, those coastal batteries are some really annoying and due to the concrete in front of them surprisingly tough buggers (fired probably a full dozen missiles on them. Guess how many actually hit the batteries).
"Flying an Attack Profile" - *Iran Air starts nervously sweating*
given the last few years they can't even trust their own team
I think this game would be pretty much unintelligible to me if I were just to try to play it, so I really appreciate the commentary and explanations you do to make these videos accessible!
While watching this, it occurred to me how smart Jingles actually is, usually he’s just laughing at stupid people sailing broadside or something, but he actually has a plethora of knowledge and wit as seen in this video
Love to hear the cat adding her thoughts in the background :D
Didnt the hunters in South Park have the same policy? "They're coming right at us" BANG BANG!
THIN OUT THEIR NUMBERS
Manbearpig
*mmmmmthey'recominrightforuss*
Fun tip I learned that I see a lot of youtubers not know in this game yet:
Hold shift after selecting a weapon when you right click targets. It queues them to be engaged sequentially. So you can hold shift and right click like 5 vessels, and the ship will use that weapon to engage those 5 sequentially as missiles become available. Makes it a lot less tedious in major engagements.
I remember when those l shaped army flashlights came with the red and blue lens for night time low visibility.
We did not have them when I started out so we put on red plastic on the lens to make it red. We did not think of it as low visibility but instead of a way to preserve the adjustment of our eyes when it was dark. Colloured light is great to use in the tent at night or mayby for looking for something in the backpack if unable to find it by touch alone, but it is crap for reading maps if there are red markings on the map. Good old times, may they never return.
@@pfridjonsson7021 The only reason I knew about it was because I asked my dad what they were for. He was a drill sergeant at the time and we would play with them by changing the lens out.
They still make the angled flashlights, and they still come with blue, and red lenses in the storage compartment at the bottom of the flashlight.
@@airplanenut89 I hadn't seen one in ages.
Hey jingles, people do get confused with the ROE. For us Brits when we use the different cards, Alpha, Bravo and Charlie.
(Edit: There is the exceptional 429 Alpha, but that is only used in certain circumstances and needs a very high authority.)
Alpha for those that don't know is your inherent right to self defence. If the target is perceived to be a threat to life, to yourself or others, or is a threat to equipment which is mission critical, you can engage.
Wait wait wait, so you're saying it's a *bad* idea to surrepticiously install a Starlink transceiver aboard the ship? Mind blown
Enjoying the sea power video's. The level of information you bring to them is outstanding. Thank you.
Absolutely love these. Keep them coming Jingles!
Love these mate Much love from New Zealand
Bravo! Finally a sensible video from one of the big YT channels on this topic. It was starting to get silly seeing all those early access videos with all their ships running around in EMCON and only turning on radars when incoming threats were visually spotted.
Seems like everybody was going around feeling like they were submarine commanders staying "stealthy" and just listening with towed arrays, lol.
Hello Mr. Mighty! Your Sea Power got me to read Tom Clancy for the first time (I started with Red Storm Rising) and it was great! So big thank you!
23:22 as ice cube said " if youre scared go to church, you knew the job was dangerous when you took it"
Whoever writes First - the Bots where faster :p
Nice clear explanation from someone who used to this for a living. Cheers Jingles :-).
First salt miner here. And from Oklahoma nonetheless.
Love the Sea Power videos! Keep them coming :)
Love these videos Jingles. Takes me back to when I watch your cold waters videos. I still watch them from time to time cause you present this sort of gameplay very VERY well. You make a slow game actually interesting to watch. Keep up the great work.
Jingles, thank you for explaining EMCOM. and an interesting sce.
Really enjoying this series, particularly your RN insights. Great work!
Continuation of the best series Jingles does, its a good day!
Thank you for sharing! That looked too easy! 😂
Oh Jingles, kind of obvious where you got the inspiration for this one from.
Great vid jingles I play a lot of command so knowing when to turn the radars on or off is incredibly useful, especially if they have anti radar weapons!
I do really enjoy these video. Please keep them coming
Been really enjoying these salt lord you keep making them I'll keep watching
Loving the episodes! Cant wait for the next one
I've been looking forward to this (count dooku revenge of the sith)
Always great when you see one of these uploaded!
Good old USS Chicago (CG-11) on PIRAZ duty (call sign Red Crown) with TF77 played this game like a boss. I know, i was there. ;)
I’m a simple man. I see a new jingles episode, I hit play.
Yep, this is why orders from on high usually have to be filtered through a good dose of common sense. The "commanders intent" section is by far the most important piece of any op order.
I played this same scenario just a few days ago as my first in the game. I was very annoyed by the fact that following the EMCON order lead to immediate destruction of 2 of my ships. Basically said the same thing as you after that. Following EMCON guidance is what we’d call in the army “METT-TC dependent” minus the TC probably.
Regarding facing off against SS-N-12 missiles, at a flight altitude of 50m the radar horizon on that would be at least 30 km, so having your air search radar on would definitely allow for detection a lot further away as compared to relying on visual sighting without radar.
Wow I don't think I've seen more EMCON stuff on youtube then this last week. But honestly excellent analogy with the flashlight, I think the world of EW is pretty unknown to the general public. That being said, out of all the EMCON videos I've watched recently, no ones discussed the use of radar pickets or TRU's, and if this game has LINK, that's all you should need.
Yah!!! Jingles playing Seapower
(Remembers Jane's Fleet Command) "This sounds strangely familiar"
I'm reminded of the South Park rules of engagement: if you shout "It's coming right for us" first, anything goes...
I mean ~technically~ the mission briefing regarding EMCON just said you had to maintain radio silence.
At no point did it order you to keep your radar offline...! 😉
Very good explanation
You never noticed the scorched paint work after launching missiles, sure it’s not scratched but someone’s going to have to sand it back and repaint the area before the X.O. goes berserk.
jingles gets one mission closer to saving his own life in the gulf
I look on TH-cam
I see an SP video
I see it is about Jingles
I am pleased
The thing is, your orders required you to maintain radio silence until otherwise directed. And not to fire until fired upon.
So, your choices are to follow orders and get shot to hell, or to violate orders and hand out a proper butt kicking to the enemy, while coming out unscathed?
How does that work out when you get back to base? How do you go about explaining that to your superiors who gave you those orders?
Tell them that their orders were dumb and would have gotten the force creamed?
And that you decided on your own that you knew better?
Somebody explained in iirc Stealth17's video of this particular mission that low altitude flying + high speed + attack course = hostile intent, so the MiG-17's were free game. The torpedo boats on attack course within 6 nmi's would've probs been regarded as coming with hostile intent so those were free game too probs.
Petition for jingles to make this a more frequent game and to bring back cold waters with dot or epic mod!
Nice one Jingles.
YIPPEEEE MORE JINGLES SEA POWER VIDEOS
Great video as always please continue to make more of them. Would you ever consider making one of these videos with someone like Dr Clark I think the two of you would be a very interesting pairing to watch.
Paul you know we want more of this in future, 🤫
Love there videos!!
Jingles, this is why you make vids on yt.
very cool I made a video about this a couple days ago and I totally agree!
I need MORE videos of this game
More Sea power please Jingles.
I’m currently finding this aspect of the game a bit frustrating at the moment. Spoilers for the start of a couple of scenarios below.
I tried don’t mess with Texas for the first time which starts with all your ships blasting away on radar. I figured since the scenario started that way and since we weren’t trying to go to war with the Syrians I’d leave them on. I briefly spotted some missiles which then disappeared but figured if there were missiles in the air I should have air search on. Radar didn’t reacquire missiles until immediately before impact and I lost ships.
Then I tried Gauntlet which starts EMCON. Not picking up any radar emissions so I thought it fair to assume I wasn’t spotted. Sent a couple of helos out at low altitude to get some separation from the fleet and started searching on radar and dropping sonobuoys. Then got a vampire warning out of the blue with missiles on top of me and no time to launch any counter measures.
Should I just assume that I should turn radar on if the scenario starts in EMCON and vice versa? Is this just bad scenario design?
@@lrmunro the key here is to build ‘picture’ or situation awareness. Once you feel it’s sufficient you can do something to change the picture, formations for radar traps, where you emcon a ship in front of your group so it’s not detectable and then launch suddenly. Using air as search to build over the horizon picture.
We need jingles to do a history series talking about the history of ships or wars. (History with Jingles)
He could team up with Dr. Alexander Clarke.
This reminds me of the Houthis that we’re on a boat that shot at a US Navy helicopter from ten miles away with a .50 machine gun. The maximum range of a .50 machine gun is something like 4.5 miles, well short of the 10 miles between them. It was hostile intent; the ten miles between them was definitely in range of hellfire missiles... it ended poorly for the Houthis.
@@Jason-35D it’s say do not fire unless fired upon, it doesn’t say you have to wait to be hit, or even that what’s fired has to get close.
Also it’s about the maxim that’if you’ve found yourself in a fair fight you’ve failed to plan.’
Good morning Gnome Overlord. Sea Power: Naval Combat for Navy Nerds.
Man ... i miss you playing warthunder
The Mighty Overlord hath bestowed on us an example, not unlike the Kobayashi Maru test, that we may despatch our digital foes at a greater rate. Thus we can worship more through the gathering of The Sacred Sodious Crystals. Ahmine.
Actually Jingles..the orders stated you had to maintain Radio Silence which allows you to run your radars within the RoE
It would seem Navy rules of engagement seem to have more wiggle room than Arny ones.
I remember seeing a documentary on infantry in Afghanistan and there "Do not fire unless fired upon" was literal. In one case, they could see the Taliban over the other side of the river. They could even see the start of the wire for the IED trigger starting from their position.
But they weren't allowed to fire until the Taliban set the IED off. Which injured a soldier.
Then again, I suppose a soldier dying is unfortunate. Losing an asset is far worse...
So, the army would watch a guy wearing a suicide vest cross the river and start running straight toward the largest concentration of army soldiers he can see. And they would just watch and do nothing else until AFTER he explodes. Yeah, that sounds like the Army. Is this related to the army term "cannon fodder"? I also see what may be a semi--valid rationale for "fragging".
Reminds me of pictures I saw of a couple of Army Generals. Eisenhower, General of the Army in charge of allied forces winning WW 2, and Westmorland, General in charge of American Army losing in Vietnam. Eisenhower had 1 row of ribbons. Westmorland had 6 or 7 rows of what looked like "participation" ribbons.
This game reminds me a bit of atlantic fleet, if you still remember that! Had great fun with it, sadly it does not work anymore on modern androids
Sea Power Sunday!!!!!
Great video. Enjoy your cup of tea and sandwiches
Great work Jingle! Excellent Video, is there a scenario with RAN craft? I would imagine that a fully RAN force would have a more limited capability than the force in your video. Though I don't think there were full RAN or even full commonwealth (RAN and RNZN) formations either outside of troop transport by HMAS Sydney and HMAS Melbourne. Would be an interesting scenario. I know that RAN ships also had restrictions on what they could fire upon, again, that would be an interesting scenario with ships that have different rules of engagement.
I tried making some early on, an ANZUS CBG getting ambushed by a bunch of soviet subs in the Hauraki Golf, but it broke and i havent been back in to fix it yet.
Got notification of this one.
Jingles teaching us how to be insubordinate.
I always did think that obsessively turning all radar off and only switching them back on when you were already swarmed, like some other youtubers do in this game, was a bit of a weird one. Seemed like a waste of the radar to me
Yup learning ✅
Its the USS Oklahoma City not the Oklahoma. Oklahoma was a battleship lost at Pearl Harbor.
Imagine beeing one of the vietnamese fishers, seeing a missile worth more than everything you and everyone you know own or will ever own fly overhead.
Watched and Liked 👍
Right north Vietnam with a European ground texture and vegetation plus a palm or two.
The (R) in the parenthesis under the contacts class means that you had detected it by radar... You were not EMCON since mission start 2:50 4:05
I had a hope that you were going to go through a scenario with a Virginia class CGN given that is what you show in the posting shot. Having qualified as a SWO on one, I was wondering how well you would operate her..
Regarding the liberal use of missiles, two notes to consider in real life:
1) Although missiles are expensive, most ships are much more expensive, and even more so while they're carrying the missiles they could have used to defend themselves. Even if you were on the hook for the cost, better to pay for the missiles than for the convoy of ships that might get sunk.
2) On the other hand, you could engage absolutely every threat with missiles, but the old adage: "Better to have and not need than need and not have" may apply. I'm sure the USN had plenty of missiles, but you still need to reload those missiles. It would be pretty embarrassing (read: possibly fatal) to run out of missiles to defend yourself en route back to base because you decided you wanted to sling missiles at the enemy infantry positions instead of getting within gun range.
In today's day and age, being completely blind radar wise is unconscionable. Yes, I get that there is a need to "go stealth" for certain units or situations, but there should always be an accompanying long range asset, preferably airborne, that is providing some intel. Getting smoked because you CHOSE not to "see" is no way to go.
Fire unt8l fired upon.
FIRE
Friendly?
Identify!
Reaction!!!
Eliminate
LOL. If any of that defensive fire in the scripted first MIG attack had had shrapnel, the plane would have been swiss cheese.
Has Torpedo Boat Destroyers, doesn't use Torpedo Boat Destroyers to destroy torpedo boats.
Let’s be honest the chances of a Mig 17 hitting a destroyer with 2 bombs. On the first pass and both of them detonating is pretty slim
from now on i will always turn my radar on while i'm driving to work, just in case....EmCon be damned :)))