I have one of the first generation SPAN electric panels - now nearing two year old. It is a game changer and it facilitated the automation to a data driven smart home. I highly recommend SPAN ( the panel and the company ) even though the initial price may sound much higher than a convention panel. You will have full access/knowledge/control for your home on your smart phone from anywhere.
Terry, I'm designing a 45 ft Step Van, EV and RV conversion (at the start of the building phase) with 10KW of Solar and 300t+100h KW of battery For reason, I need 400 w of distribution - You think this would be a better option, even for an RV
@@stephenpahl7538 absolutely not and thats coming from a guy thats installed over 350 of these in concert with our solar systems. DO NOT install one of these where it will be bouncing around.
My SPAN is using about 1-2 watts per breaker. The more breaker it has the more watts it uses (up to 32 breakers). Please keep in mind that these are my measurements and not the SPAN specs.
60w is what we’ve seen across the fleet of panels installed. We add a solar panel in the design for every customer getting this panel. Heat pumps for pools we add 6-8 panels and for EV chargers we add 12-16. We pull 3-4 panels our for those switching to heat pumps for water heating or AC. We only use 440w panels currently so my panel count is based there
This sounds like a wonderful and useful product! A bit like like my IoTaWatt open source energy monitor on steroids. I have one major concern. Houses often last 100 years, app controlled tech often iterates must faster and loses support in a decade or two. I'm reminded of the "smart" panels of the 1970's that are orphaned and have to be replaced at high labor and component cost. What steps have been taken to insure functional security in the long term? Is the firmware or at least an API open source? Could there be an agreement to make the complete design open source in the event that span can no longer support it for any reason? Hopefully this would never happen, but this is Silicon Valley, smart panels are an upcoming a competitive market and it's hard to plan decades in the future. I think some for of openness of design could provide security to those of us considering to spend many thousands of dollars to upgrade our panels.
Span appears to be primarily a current management system. Shutting off unneeded appliances so others can be used. This allows more things to operate as needed while using a limited power supply. Our 2005 Winnebago class A motor home came with such a system. It controls the hot water heater, convection microwave, stove, dual compressor heat pump, refrigerator, etc. Therefore, we can camp using hookups that are smaller than the dual line 50 amp (100 amp total) that can provide for everything. We can conveniently camp using only 30 amps and, in a pinch, somewhat uncomfortably, even camp using only 20 amps although the heat pump is limited to one compressor instead of two. So Span's panel idea is not new but it's application to homes is new. If I still owned my home, I would definitely be a customer!
Zac why are you using so many amps? My significant loads are 2 Geo heat pumps, a pool, 2 refrigerators, a freezer, dehumidifiers, electric water heater, electric dryer, electric oven and a Tesla charger. This works fine with my 200 amp panel.
@@mattbrew11 I’ve been watching all the videos online about Tesla installs, and I could not agree more. I went into this, knowing it would be a nightmare, but the power wall cost is exponentially hire with other people.
@@macmovieman1 this isn’t a sales pitch since u are moving forward but on a 10kW system with 2 powerwalls we are within $3500 but thats for a much better overall system because of the racking, wiring and inverters in general (enphase). In the cases where its actually smart to use a string inverter we use sol ark and server rack batteries and we are a little less than tesla. Either way, we will stand by and make sure a customer is happy and they will not, under any circumstances
Great info, thanks! Would span be eligible for 30% tax rebate if upgraded as part of a PV project? There's no info in Span's website... Zac: did you endup buying the Span panel?
An electric dryer and an electric hot water heater arte typically wired to a 30 amp breaker. Therefore there is no way for these two devices to be consuming 65 amps in total.
This is cool and all, but for the price of this panel you can easily upgrade to a regular 200A panel. I'm in California on PG&E and just had my main panel replaced. Upgrading the utility wires is not required if you have an overhead service.
I can see a really good use case for this in the hospitality industry. Each guest room has so many things that suck energy and owners never know when something isn't working correctly until it fails. I wonder if this could work in the arena.
I am curious to know how SPAN gets information at the socket, lamp or appliance level. I can't see anything on the website about this. Does it really give this granular information or is it only per circuit? Do the sockets and light switches need to be replaced with intelligent devices that report back to panel?
SPAN is not reading at the socket level. You would need to augment SPAN with socket monitors if you want that level of detail. Larger appliances like HVAC, EV Charger, Ranges have dedicated breakers and SPAN gives you the precise amount of energy/power used by the appliance.
This is an excellent interview. I happened to "run across" this company in another TH-cam video. That video as well as a few others only gave a vague idea of exactly what this product was. It was poorly defined even on "Span's" website. This video succinctly and perfectly defined and described this product and the company making it. Thanks. Based on what was presented here, I hope in the very near future that this company offers an IPO. To me, this is a future technology, which now in its infancy, will take off like solar inverter and battery technology. It is a technology that is the "lynch pin" for the new and growing energy technologies involving electricity. This is a company I hope some day in the near future in which to buy stock before Buffet learns about it. If and when he does, this company and its potential stock will take off like Amazon and Tesla. I hope they have a "wide moat" to prevent other companies to use this technology.
Why can’t my iPad be my panel? Do I need to go to the basement or garage to access the panel? I would like to do it from my kitchen table on the iPad☺️
thats great news! Im looking to build a house in 2024 in Portugal so I cant wait to have access to a NonUs version in europe. Great job and keep it coming!
You can also compare your bills with your actual usage to hold utilities accountable for bad metering. I didn't however hear anything about privacy protections of this kind of valuable and intrusive ioT data mining? Since it's not free I don't want to be the product nor fodder for a totalitarians wet dream and its concerning when this isn't mentioned up-front as their real value will not come as much from unit sales than data brokering.
I own a large solar company and I have two off grid homes. Both homes have span panels but the fact they currently need the internet to operate “smartly” im not sure that fits within the parameters of being off grid per se but it works. What this won’t do is communicate with many battery banks
@@mattbrew11 I don’t understand why companies will not work together to put a system that will be the standard! Thank you for getting back with me. What battery packs will span work with?
@@davidthompson4683 technically it works with super overpriced tesla batteries and solar edge store edge. I used much better @ affordable tech. Id wait a year to see if they can broaden coms I dont recommend either of those systems
I'm an electrical contractor. It was so hard to understand what he was saying. Like his cadence was messed up. At all the important parts he whispered. Sheesh. Anyway it came across as intellectually dishonest. Adding up the amps in a 100 amp service is not just about adding up amps of breaker ratings until u reach 100. If his car charger is on a 40 amp breaker it will give him that Much power period. If to many items are causing the main breaker to trip then u need an up grade. Because of LED lighting most houses have plenty of power to spare. Get multiple bids no matter how much trouble it is.
5:15 400 Amps !! Are you sure that's right Zac? If you are on 115V that's 46kW, which in itself would be way more than you need to heat a house, but you're supposed to be getting the heat from geothermal. I think that must have been a typo, or a speako?
They didn't claim it would prevent you from having to run a new 240VAC circuit. If you don't already have an appropriate circuit/receptacle to charge an EV than obviously you would need to install one. What they said is that they could save the customer from having to upgrade the SERVICE. In other words, if you only have 100 AMP service coming into your home and it's not enough to run all of your energy loads at the same time, you would normally have to upgrade to 150 or 200 AMP service. Otherwise, the main breaker will trip if too many things come on at once. Upgrading service means new entrance wiring from the utility, new meter, and a new breaker panel. It can be very expensive. A smart breaker panel like SPAN could eliminate the need to upgrade service because it can de-prioritize loads that are not time sensitive so that you don't exceed your existing service limit and trip the main breaker. Water heaters, pool pumps, HVAC, dish washers, dryers, storage freezers, and EVs are all potential candidates for prioritization.
As to installing a 240 volt circuit, read up on it. Nearly anyone with some mechanical ability can do this. The national electrical code details what is allowed in the way of wire outlets and breakers. The majority of an electricians charge to you is his labor to drag that heavy cable ftom your power box to the outlet in your garage, drilling holes as needed, placing clamps so it does not touch anything harmful, etc. That part you can do if you do not want to open the main panel. Doing that part of the job yourself could save a hundred to several hundred dollars, especially if your panel is in the basement and the charger needs to be on the other side of the house as is common on many homes. The NEC wire size chart will tell you what size wire to buy (smaller number si,especially are larger and carry more current over longer distances). If you need over 100 feet, a real possibility when measuring around things, then you must use the next size larger cable. Whrn I did a lot of home remodeling (on our own home - you must be licensed to work on someone else's), I purchased a copy of the NEC in paperback form and read the residential section over several times. I kept it with me as well as a Basic Wiring book and tackled all of our personal electric work. I even installed a 200 smp service panel (pulled the meter first which is technically illegal) and installed the whole thing before we moved into the house. It had only a 60 amp service, previously. When the power co rep came out to turn on the power, he installed a new clip on the meter and never asked about it. Sometimes luck is nice. But an electrician only has to inspect your work in run ing the cable snd check the outlet then install the breaker and the panel end of the cable and you're in business. You never touch a live wire or even have the potential to do so. If you do open thr panel, you must be insulated off the concrete floor, wear goggles and use only one hand in the box. Dropping a screwdriver for instance, can cause serious sparks, hence the goggles. The one hand rule saves your but if you do touch a hot wire. You will get a shock but it cannot go through your heart if your other hand is not grounded against the box or something inside it. Be safe. There are other rules to follow. You do not want to be burned or dead so be safe.
Two hundred amp drop is required so you can back feed the Grid. My consultant wouldn’t consider a power wall install without a new drop Span or No Span. Me thinks he exaggerates.
What about goverments being able to control your home and devices? Can they dictate how much power you get or use at anygiven time and be able to turnoff things in your home? Sounds like you give up alot of privacy.
The wisest thing that should be on everyone's mind currently should be to invest in different streams of income that doesn't depend on the government. Especially with the current economic crisis around the world. This is still a good time to invest in Gold, Silver and digital currencies (BTC,ETH...)•
Investing is a primary decision to be made for the future. If you see this and you don’t have an investment, plan to have one, so you don’t end up like my main colleague at work.
It made perfect sense, as he said for an investment, the person has to consider the rate of profit versus the rate of loss at least 2% minimum risk and also experience for you to guide and help them.
I have one of the first generation SPAN electric panels - now nearing two year old. It is a game changer and it facilitated the automation to a data driven smart home. I highly recommend SPAN ( the panel and the company ) even though the initial price may sound much higher than a convention panel. You will have full access/knowledge/control for your home on your smart phone from anywhere.
Terry, I'm designing a 45 ft Step Van, EV and RV conversion (at the start of the building phase) with 10KW of Solar and 300t+100h KW of battery For reason, I need 400 w of distribution - You think this would be a better option, even for an RV
@@stephenpahl7538 absolutely not and thats coming from a guy thats installed over 350 of these in concert with our solar systems.
DO NOT install one of these where it will be bouncing around.
I ordered mine!
So speaking of vampire loads. The Span datasheet doesn't list its own power consumption. Care to fill that in?
My SPAN is using about 1-2 watts per breaker. The more breaker it has the more watts it uses (up to 32 breakers). Please keep in mind that these are my measurements and not the SPAN specs.
60w is what we’ve seen across the fleet of panels installed. We add a solar panel in the design for every customer getting this panel. Heat pumps for pools we add 6-8 panels and for EV chargers we add 12-16. We pull 3-4 panels our for those switching to heat pumps for water heating or AC.
We only use 440w panels currently so my panel count is based there
The evolution of electrical panels have been extremely slow. I'm glad someone took the initiative of actually working on it's improvement.
This sounds like a wonderful and useful product!
A bit like like my IoTaWatt open source energy monitor on steroids.
I have one major concern. Houses often last 100 years, app controlled tech often iterates must faster and loses support in a decade or two. I'm reminded of the "smart" panels of the 1970's that are orphaned and have to be replaced at high labor and component cost.
What steps have been taken to insure functional security in the long term? Is the firmware or at least an API open source? Could there be an agreement to make the complete design open source in the event that span can no longer support it for any reason? Hopefully this would never happen, but this is Silicon Valley, smart panels are an upcoming a competitive market and it's hard to plan decades in the future.
I think some for of openness of design could provide security to those of us considering to spend many thousands of dollars to upgrade our panels.
Span appears to be primarily a current management system. Shutting off unneeded appliances so others can be used. This allows more things to operate as needed while using a limited power supply.
Our 2005 Winnebago class A motor home came with such a system. It controls the hot water heater, convection microwave, stove, dual compressor heat pump, refrigerator, etc. Therefore, we can camp using hookups that are smaller than the dual line 50 amp (100 amp total) that can provide for everything. We can conveniently camp using only 30 amps and, in a pinch, somewhat uncomfortably, even camp using only 20 amps although the heat pump is limited to one compressor instead of two.
So Span's panel idea is not new but it's application to homes is new. If I still owned my home, I would definitely be a customer!
Add washer/dryer to that Winnie appliance list too.
Good idea but would be better if they are backed up by a large manufacturer for long term availability of parts and services.
If a storm knocks out your power you can manipulate your power usage to extend a home battery.
How long is the warranty? More important, how long will it last? Equally important, will warranty be honored if you go out of business?
10 years
Sounds cool, I just want a physical switch to turn off the 'smart features' on demand.
What do you mean by this? I'm guessing that this is already possible but you need to say more.
20:50 is a feature now. It will eventually be mandatory and that's the pay day they're counting on.
Zac why are you using so many amps? My significant loads are 2 Geo heat pumps, a pool, 2 refrigerators, a freezer, dehumidifiers, electric water heater, electric dryer, electric oven and a Tesla charger. This works fine with my 200 amp panel.
I am going to order one of these next week so it arrives prior to the Tesla Solar and two Tesla Powerwalls.
Could not recommend against a contractor anymore then Tesla. Be prepared for issues
@@mattbrew11 I’ve been watching all the videos online about Tesla installs, and I could not agree more. I went into this, knowing it would be a nightmare, but the power wall cost is exponentially hire with other people.
@@macmovieman1 this isn’t a sales pitch since u are moving forward but on a 10kW system with 2 powerwalls we are within $3500 but thats for a much better overall system because of the racking, wiring and inverters in general (enphase). In the cases where its actually smart to use a string inverter we use sol ark and server rack batteries and we are a little less than tesla. Either way, we will stand by and make sure a customer is happy and they will not, under any circumstances
Great info, thanks!
Would span be eligible for 30% tax rebate if upgraded as part of a PV project? There's no info in Span's website... Zac: did you endup buying the Span panel?
An electric dryer and an electric hot water heater arte typically wired to a 30 amp breaker. Therefore there is no way for these two devices to be consuming 65 amps in total.
It was a hypothetical
My electric dryer uses a normal wall outlet because its a heat pump and incredibly bad ass. Doesn’t even require a vent to the outside
This has been a great synergy with my Tesla Solar/Powerwall setup. It has worked like a charm when the power has dropped a couple of times a year.
I would like to see them address the possibility of local management without cloud, and publishing APIs to allow third party projects to integrate.
This is cool and all, but for the price of this panel you can easily upgrade to a regular 200A panel. I'm in California on PG&E and just had my main panel replaced. Upgrading the utility wires is not required if you have an overhead service.
I can see a really good use case for this in the hospitality industry. Each guest room has so many things that suck energy and owners never know when something isn't working correctly until it fails. I wonder if this could work in the arena.
I am curious to know how SPAN gets information at the socket, lamp or appliance level. I can't see anything on the website about this. Does it really give this granular information or is it only per circuit? Do the sockets and light switches need to be replaced with intelligent devices that report back to panel?
SPAN is not reading at the socket level. You would need to augment SPAN with socket monitors if you want that level of detail. Larger appliances like HVAC, EV Charger, Ranges have dedicated breakers and SPAN gives you the precise amount of energy/power used by the appliance.
No need to monitor individual sockets. Anything pulling heavy power should obviously be on its own circuit
This is an excellent interview. I happened to "run across" this company in another TH-cam video. That video as well as a few others only gave a vague idea of exactly what this product was. It was poorly defined even on "Span's" website. This video succinctly and perfectly defined and described this product and the company making it. Thanks.
Based on what was presented here, I hope in the very near future that this company offers an IPO. To me, this is a future technology, which now in its infancy, will take off like solar inverter and battery technology. It is a technology that is the "lynch pin" for the new and growing energy technologies involving electricity. This is a company I hope some day in the near future in which to buy stock before Buffet learns about it. If and when he does, this company and its potential stock will take off like Amazon and Tesla. I hope they have a "wide moat" to prevent other companies to use this technology.
Why can’t my iPad be my panel? Do I need to go to the basement or garage to access the panel? I would like to do it from my kitchen table on the iPad☺️
thats great news! Im looking to build a house in 2024 in Portugal so I cant wait to have access to a NonUs version in europe. Great job and keep it coming!
You can also compare your bills with your actual usage to hold utilities accountable for bad metering.
I didn't however hear anything about privacy protections of this kind of valuable and intrusive ioT data mining? Since it's not free I don't want to be the product nor fodder for a totalitarians wet dream and its concerning when this isn't mentioned up-front as their real value will not come as much from unit sales than data brokering.
I don't know if anyone has asked this or if they covered this but would this work on an off-grid home?
I own a large solar company and I have two off grid homes. Both homes have span panels but the fact they currently need the internet to operate “smartly” im not sure that fits within the parameters of being off grid per se but it works.
What this won’t do is communicate with many battery banks
@@mattbrew11
I don’t understand why companies will not work together to put a system that will be the standard! Thank you for getting back with me. What battery packs will span work with?
@@davidthompson4683 technically it works with super overpriced tesla batteries and solar edge store edge. I used much better @ affordable tech. Id wait a year to see if they can broaden coms I dont recommend either of those systems
Amazing interview to the point!
Would this be beneficial for home solar without battery backup?
This is a superb piece of tech that we all need but don’t realise !!!
Price has jumped from $3500 to $4500?!
I'm an electrical contractor. It was so hard to understand what he was saying. Like his cadence was messed up. At all the important parts he whispered. Sheesh. Anyway it came across as intellectually dishonest. Adding up the amps in a 100 amp service is not just about adding up amps of breaker ratings until u reach 100. If his car charger is on a 40 amp breaker it will give him that Much power period. If to many items are causing the main breaker to trip then u need an up grade. Because of LED lighting most houses have plenty of power to spare. Get multiple bids no matter how much trouble it is.
This sounds brilliant!
One more item to place on my will be home upgrade list
5:15 400 Amps !! Are you sure that's right Zac? If you are on 115V that's 46kW, which in itself would be way more than you need to heat a house, but you're supposed to be getting the heat from geothermal. I think that must have been a typo, or a speako?
I like it. Don’t like the Price $4500.
Weve installed about 350 of these panels so far. Mostly good results but not flawless
If I buy an EV, there is no way SPAN can save me hiring an electrician to run a new 240vac circuit.
They didn't claim it would prevent you from having to run a new 240VAC circuit. If you don't already have an appropriate circuit/receptacle to charge an EV than obviously you would need to install one.
What they said is that they could save the customer from having to upgrade the SERVICE. In other words, if you only have 100 AMP service coming into your home and it's not enough to run all of your energy loads at the same time, you would normally have to upgrade to 150 or 200 AMP service. Otherwise, the main breaker will trip if too many things come on at once. Upgrading service means new entrance wiring from the utility, new meter, and a new breaker panel. It can be very expensive. A smart breaker panel like SPAN could eliminate the need to upgrade service because it can de-prioritize loads that are not time sensitive so that you don't exceed your existing service limit and trip the main breaker. Water heaters, pool pumps, HVAC, dish washers, dryers, storage freezers, and EVs are all potential candidates for prioritization.
As to installing a 240 volt circuit, read up on it. Nearly anyone with some mechanical ability can do this. The national electrical code details what is allowed in the way of wire outlets and breakers. The majority of an electricians charge to you is his labor to drag that heavy cable ftom your power box to the outlet in your garage, drilling holes as needed, placing clamps so it does not touch anything harmful, etc. That part you can do if you do not want to open the main panel. Doing that part of the job yourself could save a hundred to several hundred dollars, especially if your panel is in the basement and the charger needs to be on the other side of the house as is common on many homes. The NEC wire size chart will tell you what size wire to buy (smaller number si,especially are larger and carry more current over longer distances). If you need over 100 feet, a real possibility when measuring around things, then you must use the next size larger cable.
Whrn I did a lot of home remodeling (on our own home - you must be licensed to work on someone else's), I purchased a copy of the NEC in paperback form and read the residential section over several times. I kept it with me as well as a Basic Wiring book and tackled all of our personal electric work. I even installed a 200 smp service panel (pulled the meter first which is technically illegal) and installed the whole thing before we moved into the house. It had only a 60 amp service, previously. When the power co rep came out to turn on the power, he installed a new clip on the meter and never asked about it. Sometimes luck is nice. But an electrician only has to inspect your work in run ing the cable snd check the outlet then install the breaker and the panel end of the cable and you're in business. You never touch a live wire or even have the potential to do so.
If you do open thr panel, you must be insulated off the concrete floor, wear goggles and use only one hand in the box. Dropping a screwdriver for instance, can cause serious sparks, hence the goggles. The one hand rule saves your but if you do touch a hot wire. You will get a shock but it cannot go through your heart if your other hand is not grounded against the box or something inside it. Be safe. There are other rules to follow. You do not want to be burned or dead so be safe.
Two hundred amp drop is required so you can back feed the Grid. My consultant wouldn’t consider a power wall install without a new drop Span or No Span. Me thinks he exaggerates.
You had me until you gave control of my panel to the Government
What about goverments being able to control your home and devices? Can they dictate how much power you get or use at anygiven time and be able to turnoff things in your home? Sounds like you give up alot of privacy.
Wow, nice and cool concept but you have to be wealthy to get one of these $4500
The wisest thing that should be on everyone's mind currently should be to invest in different streams of income that doesn't depend on the government. Especially with the current economic crisis around the world. This is still a good time to invest in Gold, Silver and digital currencies (BTC,ETH...)•
Despite the Market crash and economic downturn, I'm so happy. I have been earning 4lakh rupees returns from my 60k rupees investment every 13days.
Investing is a primary decision to be made for the future. If you see this and you don’t have an investment, plan to have one, so you don’t end up like my main colleague at work.
It made perfect sense, as he said for an investment, the person has to consider the rate of profit versus the rate of loss at least 2% minimum risk and also experience for you to guide and help them.
That’s why Expert Dave Javens is the best, he analyzes the profit margin and manages the level of risk in order to earn your profit.
My first investment in my portfolio was in the forex market ($25k) with Mr Dave operating on my behalf, the portfolio balance is currently growing