"You think training is expensive? You should try ignorance." Joel has been waiting for the perfect moment to use that line in a video. By golly, I think he found it.
No, the standard electrical panel has not been around for 100 years. The transition from fuses to breakers happened in that time span, and that was rather a large upgrade. The house I grew up in was built in 1950; it had fuses.
I don't care how white and shiny it is. If it's open to the internet and collects and shares my data then keep it the hell away from me. One tracking device in my pocket is quite enough, thanks.
Don't think 1% of customers would spend that much money but it's versatile. Would be nice on homes that are not occupied full time. You could monitor say how much each baseboard heating circuit was drawing to pick up a bad heater. Hope
The market for these has to be very small. I would like to know what happens when one of the computer chips in a specific circuit doesn’t work. I would guess the circuit stays alive, but what is the end game for all this? To each his own, but it’s too expensive for the average person. Just my .$.02. I did enjoy the video. :)
@@larryzapotocky1363 As with all electronics good luck attempting to get a replacement chip or part once it's 8 years old. Had $10,000 drives for large motors that were only 7 or 8 years old that had to be scrapped because no longer could get replacement parts. Only parts you could get was cooling fans & touch screens.
Strange panel, that it has no holes, with UL listing, then it gets drilled out later, how does that change the UL listing, since you modified the mfgs. build. Standard panels come with lots of knockouts, as the panel is UL listed as such
Curious about how it fails, can it be repaired if the individual circuit monitors fail? It would be a problem if you have to replace all of this every couple years. Seems unlikely that you're going to get any more than 10 years out of this before something fails on it let alone just wanting to upgrade.
Hmm, a regular panel will last 50 to 100 years. I seriously doubt this will last 10 years before there are problems and servicing looks nearly impossible. And there is no way there is going to be support in 20 years.
looks cool but from experience, things like this only introduce more failure margin later on especially in the area of sensitive MCU's and EMI or possible cyber threats creating a bad day for you. IOT home is a fun neat HOBBY for the Arduino and fruit pi geeks but in daily practice it can become unreliable real fast and even become a safety hazard thus sometimes it's best to just keep it simple
The fact that they need cooling fans screams that there are impending failures just waiting to happen. I wonder if they can get a virus, get hacked, they steal catalytic converters are these next? No thanks. I will stick to my grandfathers panel that will still be there in a 100 years when this thing has been in the scrap heap for 90 years already lol
They did NOT think of everything, why not a hinged cover instead of a stupid screw and lift off panel cover. Why do electric panels not have a hinged cover???
How long is the warranty for soc / chips ? What happens after 10 years. Even the WiFi is outdated every few years with newer version ...so thinking 10 years is good time for overhaul
$4500 for the Span Panel itself. You would be paying the electrician another 3,000 to 5,000 for the install. Close to 10,000 for the entire install, that isn't counting new installs. Those would be more expensive.
The original panel looked REALLY nice: 20A circuits all on the left, 15A on the right. Also, it seemed like a LOT of slack for each circuit inside the box. Just wondering if that's recommended now a days. Or, it was just a detailed install job the first time. [My 10yr old new construction house has neither of that.]
Installing my first Span panel this week. Do you have to put blocking behind the panel to secure it or can you secure from the sides like a normal panel as well? All the span panels I’ve seen are sticking out past the drywall a few inches instead of flush.
YES. Lets spent 10k plus so we can tell a computer what circuits we don't need if the power goes out. God forbid we walk to the panel and switch them off. Who needs 10k when you don't want to walk across your own home and do manual labor.
I imagine it works much like the home sense. Which in addition to monitoring the wattage. It can also detect when motors go bad. Or power leaks etc. that could also be exclusive to home sense. Some people spend money on cars other people spend money on gadgets lol
Of all the panels I've seen zip tied that is a nice job it's not covered in zip ties it's only from what I can see 4? Which means you could cut them off and put reusable zip ties on and it wouldn't be a complete mess or a pain. I think zip ties get overused, careful placement is Key.
55 years in the trade as a Licensed Journeyman Electrician and I have never used Spade Bits or what also is called paddle bits. I prefer to use Irwin Nail Eaters Wood Augers or Hole Saws when necessary when drilling through Stud Framing Members or Ceiling joists .
I'm curious as to why you never went for master? I'm looking to start journeyman apprenticeship thing in Wisconsin in the next 6 months. Was it just too much hassle without much benefit?
Span took me to breakfast to pitch their panels and was not impressed, we're in AZ and they won't warranty it if it goes over a certain temp so basically can't be in direct sunlight
So, you pay $3,200 for a panel then you have to drill it out like Swiss Cheese, have metal bits fall falling into the thing just so you can monitor loads that you are going to stop doing when the newest wares off. I really got to know how much electricity my Rumba is using. What a waste of money. When the zombie apocalypse happens, I hope he can get technical support for an electrical panel. And how much do the fans cost to replace when they burn out from running 24/7.
Musk's reinventing the wheel is not always wise. Like his stupid solar roofing tiles. The industry tried and abandoned this bad idea 30 years ago... and he introduces them like they are a new good thing! LOL!
I'm very concerned about these software interfaces even though I program and work with things like that every day. I seriously doubt they'll be supported for a very long time. There is no standardization nor is there regulation yet for that. Sure, that stuff is neat at inception. But, if one is relying on that software to work for 50 years, I am 99.99% sure they will disappointed in the long run. I'm sure it will work great for 3 years. The base mechanicals should last much longer than that. The software and future platforms? I seriously doubt it.
I had my Span installed in August 2022 in preparation for having solar installed. The only issue I've had was the app on my phone couldn't see the panel for about two weeks. I could see it from my browser on my PC. Span support was able to reset the IO board on the panel and it has been working great ever since. One concern is the monitoring is cloud based so if the internet goes down or the company shuts down the panel loses all its smarts. The other concern is if the company changes its business model and starts charging for the cloud monitoring. The ability to disable a breaker from my phone so I can work on an switch or outlet without running back and forth or having a friend on the phone at the panel is a game changer. I just noticed your Navien tankless water heater. I replaced my Bosch unit with a Navien about 6 years ago.
that's most likely going to happen down the road, had a camera the same thing after 5 years, started charging a monthly fee for each cam connected to the cloud, now that they got all that hardware bought & installed, they practically got you hostage, pay or loose the access/features. As the old saying goes 'KISS' you'll be glad in the long run you did
When you stop respecting it, It will bite you!! I tell my customers that all the time. There is more of a demand for electricians now than ever before. God job Bro.🤟
Does it support MQTT? A smart panel (or any device) that doesn't support MQTT is pretty much worthless because that means you can't integrate it into your existing smart home and are locked into only using their app.
I don't think SPAN is a good idea. Relying on cloud services for smart home stuff puts your data and controls in the hands of another company. What do they do with that data? What if they go bankrupt, now your smart panel is no better than a regular one. Choose a solution that can do all this without the need for an active internet connection, with local control, and open source software.
Yeah, get the basic one...nothing wrong with it. Plus, what if someone doesn't like what you posted on social media. They can just turn off your panel! They already cancel people's social media and credit card; under the pretext of them being a private company and they can do whatever they want.
SPAN is the simplest & best solution we've found for monitoring and managing secondary power. The monitoring, control, and automation are all best-in-class, the app and physical products are user-friendly and aesthetically pleasing, and their support have been great for us.
These panels are insane! The features, the control, and of course the price, it's insane. I would absolutely love one of these. These are the best of the best. Please do a networking video like a smart panel with Ethernet/fiber home runs! I loved your camera video install. I'd love to see more networking videos!
to me it falls short of my/1970 3000SF needs 400A 240V sp main 42-60 circuits seman's full copper units. the old one was triple stacked and or lots of hackers in the last 50 years of course it wasn't me taking shortcuts 30 to 40 isn't enough room and or fire hazard and yes the house has been on fire in the last 5 years as a general idea i like the span it's just not up to snuff yet as a product
At the end of your other video (No Room In Electrical Panel - Quick Fix) you advertised this video one of the statements you made was this video would include the pricing of this panel. I guess I am watching the wrong YT channel.
So those antennas, are those for cellular or Bluetooth or Wi-Fi and if they’re buried in the basement of a house or somewhere wouldn’t it be better to remote those antennas, I remote antennas for Equipment all the time and that doesn’t seem like a great place to keep those
Extremely interesting, wow these are amazing. Your explanation is outstanding. Thank you. Oh, at 11:20 you said "...utilize...". Sorry I miss the memo stating, "rather than utilize the correct word use, we must now utilize utilize." Using utilize comes across as pompous and self-ingratiating. Utilize does not mean what folks think it does, utilize is more about what our bodies do with food and medicine. Also, when something is utilized, it is being used for other than its intended design and purpose. Think about the chair, we use it to sit upon (it is designed to be sat upon), however it can be utilized as a step stool.
I installed 3 of these in a home these panels are only great if u want headaches and burnt out hole saw although the lights on the side are a nice touch
The no mixing of Low Voltage In High Voltage Box's Code really goes out the BIG Window with this. So when the Box gets hit by Lightning and takes out the data Transceiver and or antennas, How do you replace them when Buried behind the Sheet Rock? Putting the antennas on the cover leaves room for Cabling I think an automotive designer designed this Box. Never in My life time...
I'm sorry but a panel that expensive should already have knock-out holes on the top, bottom, and sides. Somebody is going to ruin an entire panel by making a mistake drilling those holes...
If we're going to make smart circuits, the smarts should be in the breakers, not the panel. That way when one goes bad, it's a quick and cheap replacement.
Don’t see a need for this honestly. Also I can do the same thing without the box and use my phone still to control all smart switches with the lines connected.
The fact that it needs cooling fans is a "NO" for me. Possible failure of sensitive parts for a critical system in a house concerns me. Design should let it run as a regular panel if the "smart" part fails.
Panel itself is $4500, install will probably add $2000+ to that. It is oriented towards houses with solar panels and Tesla style storage and allows you to control what part of the house gets what from the solar/battery supply. If installed with the solar/battery storage/inverters it can be rolled in as part of the price and hence tax deductions available. If installed separately it is not eligible for tax deductions. If you don't have solar or battery storage this makes no sense.
Ok, I like what you're throwing down here. How about a few more considerations? My daughter made brownies and left the oven on. We then left home for the day-oops. Someone turned the sauna on and left it on unknown to us. It took a $400 bump on our electric bill before we finally discovered that-ouch. The electric savings to be able to shut down all appliances which are costly to operate from one app while we're gone on a trip would be helpful! Early notification that my AC unit is under distress would be great! Once the IRA implementation and definitions are released we may find that standalone panel upgrades are eligible for tax credits too!
Bro - u are like a 6 yr old on Xmas morning. This panel would be “cool” if the home owner was the only one that could see, monitor collect data and control every aspect of their power usage. Sorry bro, but that isn’t the case.
What problem are you solving for the user (homeowner)? To add solid state devices in the distribution center is under the best of scenarios lacking a compelling reason and in most cases reducing safety to end users, by that I am refering to reliability of power at end point for what is more commonly today present in modern homes of medically needed power to medical devices. Distribution centers distribute power to various loads and limit current to safe levels according to conductor size and can detect certain circuit problems. these panels are exposed to raw input power from providers, utility company, generators, battery back up and very few ICs that are affordable can handle spikes or low voltgage w/o failing in short order. How many owners care how many watts it takes to make coffee or any other use other than as a curiosity? When a spike enters from a provider very few protectors can interrupt/protect the entire system leaving Span type system vulnerable to a failure that will take days to replace main circuit board let alone diagnose individuual ICs possibly leaving the user w/o power for extended times. I feel that if span wants to provide circuit info current coils on each wire would be more reliable and not lead to power failures that could not be rectified until special parts were installed vs going to any supplier and getting a replacement breaker. I was lucky enough to have a dad that was an elec. engineer taught at UM and had a small elec. company 1-2 service trucks so I got my journetman lic. in 62-63 and two years later my masters lic 63-64. I am now retired but keep my lic. current in FL.
hey Joel (or any other electricians reading the comments), I got a question: I'm trying to get out on my own and do work but I've always worked for someone else and have only done a few smaller jobs for people on my own. I upgraded the service entrance for a friend of a friend, went from a 100 amp up to 200 amp. pulled the old stuff off, new exterior meter/panel combo (siemens) overhead service where mast had to go through edge of roof, 4/0 aluminum service wire, grounding and rods, modified existing EMT that went to various places so it came neatly into the panel, new #2 feeding to existing FedPacific indoor panel (all circuits were left as was from that one) being fed from 100A breaker in the new panel. It was reconnected soon after. that was the scope of work. my question is: what should a job like that cost? I don't have the experience pricing jobs like that. I charged 1500 and have no idea if I over-charged or under-charged. He was pumped to get me to do it so I think I was on the low end, but I'm relying on him for word-of-mouth advertising so hopefully I didn't rip him off any input from the electrical community would be much appreciated
I got an unlicensed guy to do this for me, 100 to 200 service upgrade, overhead live disconnect, new service entrance conduit, panel, etc. Paid $1300 last year. Definitely the low end, he didn't do a few things right, didn't know I knew anything about electrical and wanted to argue about it. He ended up fixing it, but it was his own laziness for taking shortcuts. For these jobs, especially doing everything right and getting inspected you should be charging at least 2k.
@@tylerwatt12 thanks for the input Tyler. But out of curiosity, the utility company doesn't need to reconnect the service to the overhead or underground mains there? or do they not require a license from somebody before they'll reconnect? I just don't understand how the guy got away with it.
@@Kevin-ip8uf He was able to disconnect it live. Risky but doable. Insulated gloves and tools. No permits pulled. I watched him connect the new line while it was hot from the pole. The utility was not informed in any way
@@ElectricProAcademy I tried to be detailed about the scope of the job so you could have a better idea of what to advise, but didn't want to 'dumb it down' since we all work in the field and know what is entailed. lol. Ok cool, thank you guys for your input. The strategic sales approach is what might get me though. I don't have much exposure in the area and like I said, the customers word-of-mouth advertising is something I'm hoping to help. But at least I have a better idea of what I can charge when I'm more established. side note: I did get a good price on materials because my boss said I could use their account at the distributors and just pay for it myself - so I was able to offer a better price to the client with that than if I'd gone to get everything from home depot or some place. By the way I love that your videos usually break down the pricing of your jobs. keep up the good work.
Hey, I actually used to work for Joel. He is the best and never discouraged us to do side work as long as it didn't interfere with work work. I now own my own company with 11 employees, and am doing alright for myself. Here is some advice I would give you and most of it comes from Joel. #1) Do a great job for you current boss - it will go miles for you when you are ready to start you own company. #2) Study, study, study. If you boss offers schooling take advantage of it. And if you have a boss that dosnt offer it, get it on your own - take control of you future. Also, the more you know the better electrician and employee you'll be. Your current boss will notice. #3) Know yourself and you capabilities and charge accordingly. This comes directly from Joel - think about each part and piece and charge for every part including the 6-32's your going to use. Then make your best judgement of time your going to spend on the job based on all the information you have about the job and figure out the hours you going to be there and charge for that. There are many ways to estimate a job - but this is a tried and true way to do it. #4) Don't trade the best things for good things. Meaning that family life is of the utmost importance, and owning your own company is second to that. From my own experience, owning your own company its best is like adding two kids to your family and at its worst is like having a second family. #5) If you do it well, profit/loss will be at 80/20. Meaning 80% of the time you will make a profit and 20% you will not. So be conscious of that. Save up your money. I had almost 50k saved up for my company and because I started out with some bigger accounts that had some longer turn around times (net 30's) along with other start up costs and payrolls, within 5 months it was all eaten up. It has returned, but I have the battle scars from fighting for it back. Good luck
Old code allowed 42 circuits now 84. Way I remember is the # is evenly divided by the #6. At a new 12 floor building they used all 84 circuit 120/208 225 amp panels. Biggest problem they are installed in electrical closets and all circuits feed from top of panel. To make matters worst they insisted on no multiwire circuits ( shared neutrals ) and the vast majority of the circuits were 20 amp and had to use all #10 wire from panel to first JB. Ended up running all 1" EMT from panel with think it was 19 #10 wires. ( 2 ground, 9 white grounded conductors & 3 each of black, red & blue wires.
Since the 2008 NEC, the Code does not set a maximum number of circuit breakers a panel can have as long as the manufacturer allows for a certain amount in the panel boards design and listing. No more limit of 42. If a panel is protected by a main breaker or an upstream overcurrent device, they could theoretically have as many as needed to supply the loads as long as it was sufficiently designed to carry the loads. Good change.
@@rrussell39 Installed a 40 circuit panel inky home almost 40 years ago. All natural gas cooking, dryer, heat & water heater . Ran a lot of circuits that I finally maxed it out a few years ago. Have a small sub panel in the garage.
@@rrussell39 Thought somebody told us that there was a maximum of 84 circuits.its a mess when you have 80 black, 80 white and at least a dozen #10 wires ( total of 170 ) wires all leaving the top of a 84 circuit panel no matter how many ty rabs you use. I have a 42 circuit panel.in my house that is max'ed out with at least 26 NM cables enter at the top and remainder thru one side. Took my time , installed bunch of tr rab bases & ty rabs and would not want to remove any of the rear top.cables.
@@JohnThomas-lq5qp You heard right, prior to the 2008 NEC, panelboards were limited to 42 circuits per enclosure. If we needed more than 42 breakers we would use 'pass-thru' panels...basically two panels next to each other. You would feed the first panel, then another set of lugs on the bottom of that first panels busses would allow you to feed on to the second section, and again install up to 42 breakers. They still make them, and I have used a lot of them. Luckily in the 38 years I have been in the trade the panels cabinets have greatly increased in size to allow for new NEC requirements. Some of the older panels were even smaller, by a considerable amount. Sometimes you would have an older panel so full that you would have to be careful the cover screws didn't bite into a conductor. The problem really gets bad when someone fills their panel spaces up with the twin or piggyback breakers to add even more circuits than the panel is designed for by removing the metal tab (or cutting the plastic) that allows them to only be installed on a specific section of the panels bus...basically filling the entire panel with twins. Not a problem if the enclosure is sized to handle the wire-fill and extra heat, but if not, can cause lots of heat related issues. I have seen it all...and then some. Good luck.
Not convinced yet on Span a panel maker that does not make its own breakers in my view has limitations with regard to engineering quality I will wait on that. Panels should include better fire protection including thermal fire protection. Look at the UK company called Enviroburst that does very nice fire suppression tubes that fit in a panel it’s very slimline that can stop a fire in a panel much like a fire extinguisher. I still think the Leviton smart panel with smart WiFi breakers would still be a cheaper option than the smart panel. The Span panel may have slightly better software aspects but not convinced on hardware side. It would have been nice if you had discussed the fans and how they work in the panel. You could restore the sheathing on that knicked cable by UL listed heat shrinking. On the ideal competition if first time I would do a few test rigs using ideal tools you do need to prep. Best guy who has one the championship more than won is Greg Anliker a superb electrician and he is so methodical and organized super efficient. Watch his performance on Sparky Channel provides a great overview of his work approach.
Hey Joel, I really enjoy watching your videos, and as you might imagine I'm interested because I need to do some badly needed electrical upgrades at my house. The list of projects is long so I won't go into all of it, but I do have a more general question. And maybe this is an idea for a video too? My question is, how would you recommend we go about choosing a local electrician, that will do good quality work, like you, and do it for a fair price? I'm in Utah, so unfortunately I can't use you. :) But I'm really hesitant to use any of the big companies that have dozens of trucks running around the area. It seems like getting good quality out of them is more hit and miss than finding an independent that takes pride in their work and wants to build lasting customer relationships. I'm all about loyalty to people that do good work for a fair price. And I'm also not afraid of getting my hands dirty and doing some of the easier things myself. Let me know what you think, if you have a few minutes to respond. Thanks and keep the videos coming.
Hey @Earl Lewis, sounds like EPro-2-Call might be a great option for you as a 2nd opinion to a local guy or yourself (electric-pro-academy.square.site/)! Otherwise, we covered a few things to look for in this video: th-cam.com/video/rJFIP0no6WM/w-d-xo.html. Let us know if that still leaves some questions.
Honestly an integrated electronics panel sounds horrific to maintain. I just had my furnace board fail... I do not want to have to plan on replacing my electrical panel every 5-10 years. I'd rather install smart outlets that link to a single app.
I actually like the extra dexterity with the finger tips torn off. Some guys on our team cut the tips off their new gloves, but I just work mine off and then keep using them.
Knipex and Whia GERMAN tools, get a Knipex wire stripper, you will realize how bad Ideal, Klein, and others are. WHIA insulated torque screwdriver KIT 11 pcs, all bits insulated and handle... to set screws correctly on the breakers
So, from the POV of a home owner here... at about 5:00 it feels like your laughing at how much money you're going to make off of our backs. Not a good look.
@@headybrew my mistake. I didn’t see him poking fun of the homeowner. Knowing the cost of these panels, I thought that was his point. That the old panels, just the panel can be bought for about $125 but in comparison, these are a lot more expensive.
My question was answered. A premium product automatically demands premium installation costs even though it takes the same time as a typical panel swapout. No thanks.
I almost don't like it because if it has electronics built in, thats just another thing to go wrong down the road..... making things "Smart" creates more problems down the road.... KISS! KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID! this panel is NOT simple....
Why do I need one "well you don't "computers don't like surge so let's put a computer in a panel and call it ground breaking with cooling fans running wtf
"You think training is expensive? You should try ignorance." Joel has been waiting for the perfect moment to use that line in a video. By golly, I think he found it.
I'm totally going to start using that line in my IT sysadmin job
@@TRLTheRandomLab That was the advice from my Godfather in my weeding. He is right.
No, the standard electrical panel has not been around for 100 years. The transition from fuses to breakers happened in that time span, and that was rather a large upgrade. The house I grew up in was built in 1950; it had fuses.
I’m not seeing how this is worth $3000 more than the leviton smart panel
I totally agree
It is hard for me to justify an electrical panel that consumes electricity..
@@DozIT pretty minimal though you'd think. probably a raspberry pi's worth of usage, so a couple of watts or so
Just compute roi and you’ll understand
@@DozITroi
The ultimate cure for a problem that isn’t there. I’ll be keeping my fail proof Square D thank you.
"I'm sorry Dave, you can not use defibrillator now. Your mother-in-law is just cooking a sunday soup."😉
I don't care how white and shiny it is. If it's open to the internet and collects and shares my data then keep it the hell away from me. One tracking device in my pocket is quite enough, thanks.
👏👏🤝👍🤜💪
No way I'd use that. Most electronics go bad around 10 years. There are 100 year old panels that still work.
FYI: The panel is $4500 without taxes, shipping or installation.
Don't think 1% of customers would spend that much money but it's versatile. Would be nice on homes that are not occupied full time. You could monitor say how much each baseboard heating circuit was drawing to pick up a bad heater. Hope
@@JohnThomas-lq5qp might as well go with the leviton in that case though
The market for these has to be very small. I would like to know what happens when one of the computer chips in a specific circuit doesn’t work. I would guess the circuit stays alive, but what is the end game for all this? To each his own, but it’s too expensive for the average person. Just my .$.02. I did enjoy the video. :)
@@larryzapotocky1363 As with all electronics good luck attempting to get a replacement chip or part once it's 8 years old. Had $10,000 drives for large motors that were only 7 or 8 years old that had to be scrapped because no longer could get replacement parts. Only parts you could get was cooling fans & touch screens.
@@JohnThomas-lq5qp Yes I think in this case…sometimes simpler might be better… Especially if it’s powering your whole house. But just my opinion
Strange panel, that it has no holes, with UL listing, then it gets drilled out later, how does that change the UL listing, since you modified the mfgs. build. Standard panels come with lots of knockouts, as the panel is UL listed as such
Use an electric or ratchet hole punch saves on the metal fillings
Curious about how it fails, can it be repaired if the individual circuit monitors fail? It would be a problem if you have to replace all of this every couple years. Seems unlikely that you're going to get any more than 10 years out of this before something fails on it let alone just wanting to upgrade.
That is why it is best to avoid as much technical complexity as possible. Simple is best.
Hmm, a regular panel will last 50 to 100 years. I seriously doubt this will last 10 years before there are problems and servicing looks nearly impossible. And there is no way there is going to be support in 20 years.
looks cool but from experience, things like this only introduce more failure margin later on especially in the area of sensitive MCU's and EMI or possible cyber threats creating a bad day for you. IOT home is a fun neat HOBBY for the Arduino and fruit pi geeks but in daily practice it can become unreliable real fast and even become a safety hazard thus sometimes it's best to just keep it simple
If you want a small TESLA powerwall system to be able to backup the whole panel by using smart load switching this is really the only solution.
The fact that they need cooling fans screams that there are impending failures just waiting to happen. I wonder if they can get a virus, get hacked, they steal catalytic converters are these next? No thanks. I will stick to my grandfathers panel that will still be there in a 100 years when this thing has been in the scrap heap for 90 years already lol
Yes I agree!!!😬
"not telling you what that is yet"
it's 2022 and this is the internet. I googled it.
Looks fascinating, but, what is the life expectancy of computer modules?
So true ,always something new to learn … Been in this trade for 45 years been a master for 40 years .
You in or near Indy? 🤞🏽
and it isnt occurring to you at all that this might be a bad idea?
First time a cyber threat hits it and turns his home into the house from Pulse (circa 1987) he will rethink his decisions.
They did NOT think of everything, why not a hinged cover instead of a stupid screw and lift off panel cover. Why do electric panels not have a hinged cover???
That measuring stick would absolutely drive me nuts lol
I can’t believe u don’t have a knock out punch tool
yeah lol those holes he drilled looked rough as hell and voids the warranty and weather rating,
How long is the warranty for soc / chips ? What happens after 10 years. Even the WiFi is outdated every few years with newer version ...so thinking 10 years is good time for overhaul
$4500 for the Span Panel itself. You would be paying the electrician another 3,000 to 5,000 for the install. Close to 10,000 for the entire install, that isn't counting new installs. Those would be more expensive.
The original panel looked REALLY nice: 20A circuits all on the left, 15A on the right. Also, it seemed like a LOT of slack for each circuit inside the box. Just wondering if that's recommended now a days. Or, it was just a detailed install job the first time. [My 10yr old new construction house has neither of that.]
Installing my first Span panel this week. Do you have to put blocking behind the panel to secure it or can you secure from the sides like a normal panel as well? All the span panels I’ve seen are sticking out past the drywall a few inches instead of flush.
How do you think the span panel compares to the leviton smart panel. Our friend at all-phase has been trying to sell me on them?
YES. Lets spent 10k plus so we can tell a computer what circuits we don't need if the power goes out. God forbid we walk to the panel and switch them off. Who needs 10k when you don't want to walk across your own home and do manual labor.
I imagine it works much like the home sense. Which in addition to monitoring the wattage. It can also detect when motors go bad. Or power leaks etc. that could also be exclusive to home sense.
Some people spend money on cars other people spend money on gadgets lol
lol. I love your videos but does Span know you are gloating about the installation markup. lol.
Of all the panels I've seen zip tied that is a nice job it's not covered in zip ties it's only from what I can see 4? Which means you could cut them off and put reusable zip ties on and it wouldn't be a complete mess or a pain. I think zip ties get overused, careful placement is Key.
no spans installed flush in a standard finished wall. gonna need at least 2x6 framing. good to know
55 years in the trade as a Licensed Journeyman Electrician and I have never used Spade Bits or what also is called paddle bits. I prefer to use Irwin Nail Eaters Wood Augers or Hole Saws when necessary when drilling through Stud Framing Members or Ceiling joists .
I'm curious as to why you never went for master? I'm looking to start journeyman apprenticeship thing in Wisconsin in the next 6 months. Was it just too much hassle without much benefit?
I want these up in Canada! So awesome
Sounds like a giant headache to me. ALL this tech is GREAT…when it works
It works great! I made a video on my channel on how I use it with Tesla Solar and Powerwall.
Span took me to breakfast to pitch their panels and was not impressed, we're in AZ and they won't warranty it if it goes over a certain temp so basically can't be in direct sunlight
So, you pay $3,200 for a panel then you have to drill it out like Swiss Cheese, have metal bits fall falling into the thing just so you can monitor loads that you are going to stop doing when the newest wares off. I really got to know how much electricity my Rumba is using. What a waste of money. When the zombie apocalypse happens, I hope he can get technical support for an electrical panel. And how much do the fans cost to replace when they burn out from running 24/7.
Musk's reinventing the wheel is not always wise.
Like his stupid solar roofing tiles. The industry tried and abandoned this bad idea 30 years ago... and he introduces them like they are a new good thing! LOL!
Where is the link for Part II?
Cool work station/table. What's it called? I want one.
Going to probably be installing one here soon in a customers house. They are interesting for sure. Thanks for making this video.
Try using the Milwaukee thin wall hole cutters. They seem to cut right through span panels well with very little shavings.
I'm very concerned about these software interfaces even though I program and work with things like that every day. I seriously doubt they'll be supported for a very long time. There is no standardization nor is there regulation yet for that. Sure, that stuff is neat at inception. But, if one is relying on that software to work for 50 years, I am 99.99% sure they will disappointed in the long run. I'm sure it will work great for 3 years. The base mechanicals should last much longer than that. The software and future platforms? I seriously doubt it.
I had my Span installed in August 2022 in preparation for having solar installed. The only issue I've had was the app on my phone couldn't see the panel for about two weeks. I could see it from my browser on my PC. Span support was able to reset the IO board on the panel and it has been working great ever since. One concern is the monitoring is cloud based so if the internet goes down or the company shuts down the panel loses all its smarts. The other concern is if the company changes its business model and starts charging for the cloud monitoring. The ability to disable a breaker from my phone so I can work on an switch or outlet without running back and forth or having a friend on the phone at the panel is a game changer.
I just noticed your Navien tankless water heater. I replaced my Bosch unit with a Navien about 6 years ago.
that's most likely going to happen down the road, had a camera the same thing after 5 years, started charging a monthly fee for each cam connected to the cloud, now that they got all that hardware bought & installed, they practically got you hostage, pay or loose the access/features. As the old saying goes 'KISS' you'll be glad in the long run you did
Cloud based is a deal breaker. Something like this should have an on premise option.
When you stop respecting it, It will bite you!! I tell my customers that all the time. There is more of a demand for electricians now than ever before. God job Bro.🤟
Does it support MQTT? A smart panel (or any device) that doesn't support MQTT is pretty much worthless because that means you can't integrate it into your existing smart home and are locked into only using their app.
Holesaw conversion chart states that, 1/2" to 1"conduit , increases 3/8".
1 1/4" conduit to 3", increases 1/2".
3"conduit and larger, it varies.
Joel, awesome! 💪🏼👍🏼👏🏼
Do you think Span will come to Canada?
I don't think SPAN is a good idea. Relying on cloud services for smart home stuff puts your data and controls in the hands of another company. What do they do with that data? What if they go bankrupt, now your smart panel is no better than a regular one. Choose a solution that can do all this without the need for an active internet connection, with local control, and open source software.
Data is the new oil.
Yeah, get the basic one...nothing wrong with it. Plus, what if someone doesn't like what you posted on social media. They can just turn off your panel!
They already cancel people's social media and credit card; under the pretext of them being a private company and they can do whatever they want.
"why is my electrical panel seeding russian malware?" is a question i dont ever want to have to ask myself
"Why is my Span Panel reporting to DMV about my Tesla charging ?"
IOTaWatt is much cheaper, can be added to an existing box, and keeps the data local.
Is this the one they can remotely shut down for good if they choose to do so? 💔
One year late to the party, but im pretty sure your utilities smart meters have the capability of doing that already.
Really impressed with your expertise. Any chance you know an electrician in the Palm Springs, CA area you’d recommend?
Is this worth adding on an older home that needs an older electrical panel upgrade? I’m trying to future proof a home into modern times 😅
SPAN is the simplest & best solution we've found for monitoring and managing secondary power. The monitoring, control, and automation are all best-in-class, the app and physical products are user-friendly and aesthetically pleasing, and their support have been great for us.
good to know now your data on usage will be sold online
These panels are insane! The features, the control, and of course the price, it's insane. I would absolutely love one of these. These are the best of the best. Please do a networking video like a smart panel with Ethernet/fiber home runs! I loved your camera video install. I'd love to see more networking videos!
to me it falls short of my/1970 3000SF needs 400A 240V sp main 42-60 circuits seman's full copper units. the old one was triple stacked and or lots of hackers in the last 50 years of course it wasn't me taking shortcuts 30 to 40 isn't enough room and or fire hazard and yes the house has been on fire in the last 5 years
as a general idea i like the span it's just not up to snuff yet as a product
Is overpriced and cramped for what you get.
At the end of your other video (No Room In Electrical Panel - Quick Fix) you advertised this video one of the statements you made was this video would include the pricing of this panel. I guess I am watching the wrong YT channel.
19:20 does home depot carry that hammer?
So those antennas, are those for cellular or Bluetooth or Wi-Fi and if they’re buried in the basement of a house or somewhere wouldn’t it be better to remote those antennas, I remote antennas for Equipment all the time and that doesn’t seem like a great place to keep those
In Ontario, on old work we are allowed to ignore breaker height
Extremely interesting, wow these are amazing. Your explanation is outstanding. Thank you.
Oh, at 11:20 you said "...utilize...". Sorry I miss the memo stating, "rather than utilize the correct word use, we must now utilize utilize." Using utilize comes across as pompous and self-ingratiating. Utilize does not mean what folks think it does, utilize is more about what our bodies do with food and medicine. Also, when something is utilized, it is being used for other than its intended design and purpose. Think about the chair, we use it to sit upon (it is designed to be sat upon), however it can be utilized as a step stool.
Thanks, I'll try to correct this bad habit!
Aren’t the electronics relatively fragile and vulnerable to surges?
I installed 3 of these in a home these panels are only great if u want headaches and burnt out hole saw although the lights on the side are a nice touch
Do you label everything before you remove the circuits.
YES! Not doing so can add hours to the job 😫
Got much does it cost to install this?
I have yet to see what’s the justification for $4,500 plus tax. It does what other devices do for less than the price.
It has a separate sub-panel out IIRC don't need to use on of the breakers. Also has a solar in without using one of the breakers. Again, IIRC
The no mixing of Low Voltage In High Voltage Box's Code really goes out the BIG Window with this.
So when the Box gets hit by Lightning and takes out the data Transceiver and or antennas, How do you replace them when Buried behind the Sheet Rock? Putting the antennas on the cover leaves room for Cabling
I think an automotive designer designed this Box.
Never in My life time...
I'm sorry but a panel that expensive should already have knock-out holes on the top, bottom, and sides. Somebody is going to ruin an entire panel by making a mistake drilling those holes...
Nema 3r panels usually dont come with kos ready. Thats why
If theres kos. There on the bottom.
If we're going to make smart circuits, the smarts should be in the breakers, not the panel. That way when one goes bad, it's a quick and cheap replacement.
Thos thing would be great in new construction and remodels. Energy management is only as good as the specificity of the circuits.
Don’t see a need for this honestly. Also I can do the same thing without the box and use my phone still to control all smart switches with the lines connected.
I think on the Tesla Gateway you should use existing emt conduit pipe or add a emt conduit pipe
In Ontario, # 2 aluminum is rated for 90 amps
This guy sounds like some kinda fanatic...
Musk fan boys are like the Apple cult.
The fact that it needs cooling fans is a "NO" for me. Possible failure of sensitive parts for a critical system in a house concerns me.
Design should let it run as a regular panel if the "smart" part fails.
A “standard” electrical panel has NOT been around for 100-years. I grew up in a house with screw-in fuses. Breakers are a fairly new invention.
I'm more surprised that they have an AirBnB onsite than anything else
This entire video should have just been named "Advertisement for SPAN panels."
I just hate the fact that it will need wifi updates etc. It looks cool but I will leave this to others.
Panel itself is $4500, install will probably add $2000+ to that. It is oriented towards houses with solar panels and Tesla style storage and allows you to control what part of the house gets what from the solar/battery supply. If installed with the solar/battery storage/inverters it can be rolled in as part of the price and hence tax deductions available. If installed separately it is not eligible for tax deductions. If you don't have solar or battery storage this makes no sense.
Ok, I like what you're throwing down here. How about a few more considerations?
My daughter made brownies and left the oven on. We then left home for the day-oops.
Someone turned the sauna on and left it on unknown to us. It took a $400 bump on our electric bill before we finally discovered that-ouch.
The electric savings to be able to shut down all appliances which are costly to operate from one app while we're gone on a trip would be helpful!
Early notification that my AC unit is under distress would be great!
Once the IRA implementation and definitions are released we may find that standalone panel upgrades are eligible for tax credits too!
Bro - u are like a 6 yr old on Xmas morning. This panel would be “cool” if the home owner was the only one that could see, monitor collect data and control every aspect of their power usage. Sorry bro, but that isn’t the case.
I dont want or need a computer attached to every circuit in my house. More things to buy, break, and become OBSOLETE.
What problem are you solving for the user (homeowner)? To add solid state devices in the distribution center is under the best of scenarios lacking a compelling reason and in most cases reducing safety to end users, by that I am refering to reliability of power at end point for what is more commonly today present in modern homes of medically needed power to medical devices. Distribution centers distribute power to various loads and limit current to safe levels according to conductor size and can detect certain circuit problems. these panels are exposed to raw input power from providers, utility company, generators, battery back up and very few ICs that are affordable can handle spikes or low voltgage w/o failing in short order. How many owners care how many watts it takes to make coffee or any other use other than as a curiosity? When a spike enters from a provider very few protectors can interrupt/protect the entire system leaving Span type system vulnerable to a failure that will take days to replace main circuit board let alone diagnose individuual ICs possibly leaving the user w/o power for extended times. I feel that if span wants to provide circuit info current coils on each wire would be more reliable and not lead to power failures that could not be rectified until special parts were installed vs going to any supplier and getting a replacement breaker. I was lucky enough to have a dad that was an elec. engineer taught at UM and had a small elec. company 1-2 service trucks so I got my journetman lic. in 62-63 and two years later my masters lic 63-64. I am now retired but keep my lic. current in FL.
I am surprised you are permitted to strap all your cables together .
hey Joel (or any other electricians reading the comments), I got a question: I'm trying to get out on my own and do work but I've always worked for someone else and have only done a few smaller jobs for people on my own.
I upgraded the service entrance for a friend of a friend, went from a 100 amp up to 200 amp. pulled the old stuff off, new exterior meter/panel combo (siemens) overhead service where mast had to go through edge of roof, 4/0 aluminum service wire, grounding and rods, modified existing EMT that went to various places so it came neatly into the panel, new #2 feeding to existing FedPacific indoor panel (all circuits were left as was from that one) being fed from 100A breaker in the new panel. It was reconnected soon after.
that was the scope of work.
my question is: what should a job like that cost?
I don't have the experience pricing jobs like that. I charged 1500 and have no idea if I over-charged or under-charged.
He was pumped to get me to do it so I think I was on the low end, but I'm relying on him for word-of-mouth advertising so hopefully I didn't rip him off
any input from the electrical community would be much appreciated
I got an unlicensed guy to do this for me, 100 to 200 service upgrade, overhead live disconnect, new service entrance conduit, panel, etc. Paid $1300 last year. Definitely the low end, he didn't do a few things right, didn't know I knew anything about electrical and wanted to argue about it. He ended up fixing it, but it was his own laziness for taking shortcuts. For these jobs, especially doing everything right and getting inspected you should be charging at least 2k.
@@tylerwatt12 thanks for the input Tyler. But out of curiosity, the utility company doesn't need to reconnect the service to the overhead or underground mains there? or do they not require a license from somebody before they'll reconnect?
I just don't understand how the guy got away with it.
@@Kevin-ip8uf He was able to disconnect it live. Risky but doable. Insulated gloves and tools. No permits pulled. I watched him connect the new line while it was hot from the pole. The utility was not informed in any way
@@ElectricProAcademy I tried to be detailed about the scope of the job so you could have a better idea of what to advise, but didn't want to 'dumb it down' since we all work in the field and know what is entailed. lol.
Ok cool, thank you guys for your input. The strategic sales approach is what might get me though. I don't have much exposure in the area and like I said, the customers word-of-mouth advertising is something I'm hoping to help. But at least I have a better idea of what I can charge when I'm more established.
side note: I did get a good price on materials because my boss said I could use their account at the distributors and just pay for it myself - so I was able to offer a better price to the client with that than if I'd gone to get everything from home depot or some place.
By the way I love that your videos usually break down the pricing of your jobs. keep up the good work.
Hey, I actually used to work for Joel. He is the best and never discouraged us to do side work as long as it didn't interfere with work work.
I now own my own company with 11 employees, and am doing alright for myself.
Here is some advice I would give you and most of it comes from Joel.
#1) Do a great job for you current boss - it will go miles for you when you are ready to start you own company.
#2) Study, study, study. If you boss offers schooling take advantage of it. And if you have a boss that dosnt offer it, get it on your own - take control of you future. Also, the more you know the better electrician and employee you'll be. Your current boss will notice.
#3) Know yourself and you capabilities and charge accordingly. This comes directly from Joel - think about each part and piece and charge for every part including the 6-32's your going to use. Then make your best judgement of time your going to spend on the job based on all the information you have about the job and figure out the hours you going to be there and charge for that. There are many ways to estimate a job - but this is a tried and true way to do it.
#4) Don't trade the best things for good things. Meaning that family life is of the utmost importance, and owning your own company is second to that. From my own experience, owning your own company its best is like adding two kids to your family and at its worst is like having a second family.
#5) If you do it well, profit/loss will be at 80/20. Meaning 80% of the time you will make a profit and 20% you will not. So be conscious of that. Save up your money.
I had almost 50k saved up for my company and because I started out with some bigger accounts that had some longer turn around times (net 30's) along with other start up costs and payrolls, within 5 months it was all eaten up. It has returned, but I have the battle scars from fighting for it back.
Good luck
I think I’ll stick to my $375 square d panel instead of a $3500 SPAN panel.
Nice dog. What's his name?
Jim
CYWG
19:07 Glad we got proper training on correct technique when using an "electrician's hammer" during this video. lol
😂, and it won't be the last time!
Old code allowed 42 circuits now 84. Way I remember is the # is evenly divided by the #6. At a new 12 floor building they used all 84 circuit 120/208 225 amp panels. Biggest problem they are installed in electrical closets and all circuits feed from top of panel. To make matters worst they insisted on no multiwire circuits ( shared neutrals ) and the vast majority of the circuits were 20 amp and had to use all #10 wire from panel to first JB. Ended up running all 1" EMT from panel with think it was 19 #10 wires. ( 2 ground, 9 white grounded conductors & 3 each of black, red & blue wires.
Since the 2008 NEC, the Code does not set a maximum number of circuit breakers a panel can have as long as the manufacturer allows for a certain amount in the panel boards design and listing. No more limit of 42. If a panel is protected by a main breaker or an upstream overcurrent device, they could theoretically have as many as needed to supply the loads as long as it was sufficiently designed to carry the loads. Good change.
@@rrussell39 Installed a 40 circuit panel inky home almost 40 years ago. All natural gas cooking, dryer, heat & water heater . Ran a lot of circuits that I finally maxed it out a few years ago. Have a small sub panel in the garage.
@@rrussell39 Thought somebody told us that there was a maximum of 84 circuits.its a mess when you have 80 black, 80 white and at least a dozen #10 wires ( total of 170 ) wires all leaving the top of a 84 circuit panel no matter how many ty rabs you use. I have a 42 circuit panel.in my house that is max'ed out with at least 26 NM cables enter at the top and remainder thru one side. Took my time , installed bunch of tr rab bases & ty rabs and would not want to remove any of the rear top.cables.
@@JohnThomas-lq5qp You heard right, prior to the 2008 NEC, panelboards were limited to 42 circuits per enclosure. If we needed more than 42 breakers we would use 'pass-thru' panels...basically two panels next to each other. You would feed the first panel, then another set of lugs on the bottom of that first panels busses would allow you to feed on to the second section, and again install up to 42 breakers. They still make them, and I have used a lot of them. Luckily in the 38 years I have been in the trade the panels cabinets have greatly increased in size to allow for new NEC requirements. Some of the older panels were even smaller, by a considerable amount. Sometimes you would have an older panel so full that you would have to be careful the cover screws didn't bite into a conductor. The problem really gets bad when someone fills their panel spaces up with the twin or piggyback breakers to add even more circuits than the panel is designed for by removing the metal tab (or cutting the plastic) that allows them to only be installed on a specific section of the panels bus...basically filling the entire panel with twins. Not a problem if the enclosure is sized to handle the wire-fill and extra heat, but if not, can cause lots of heat related issues. I have seen it all...and then some. Good luck.
Not convinced yet on Span a panel maker that does not make its own breakers in my view has limitations with regard to engineering quality I will wait on that. Panels should include better fire protection including thermal fire protection. Look at the UK company called Enviroburst that does very nice fire suppression tubes that fit in a panel it’s very slimline that can stop a fire in a panel much like a fire extinguisher. I still think the Leviton smart panel with smart WiFi breakers would still be a cheaper option than the smart panel.
The Span panel may have slightly better software aspects but not convinced on hardware side. It would have been nice if you had discussed the fans and how they work in the panel.
You could restore the sheathing on that knicked cable by UL listed heat shrinking. On the ideal competition if first time I would do a few test rigs using ideal tools you do need to prep. Best guy who has one the championship more than won is Greg Anliker a superb electrician and he is so methodical and organized super efficient. Watch his performance on Sparky Channel provides a great overview of his work approach.
sounds fine unit it starts failing 20 years later.
20? Try 10!
Hey Joel, I really enjoy watching your videos, and as you might imagine I'm interested because I need to do some badly needed electrical upgrades at my house. The list of projects is long so I won't go into all of it, but I do have a more general question. And maybe this is an idea for a video too? My question is, how would you recommend we go about choosing a local electrician, that will do good quality work, like you, and do it for a fair price? I'm in Utah, so unfortunately I can't use you. :) But I'm really hesitant to use any of the big companies that have dozens of trucks running around the area. It seems like getting good quality out of them is more hit and miss than finding an independent that takes pride in their work and wants to build lasting customer relationships. I'm all about loyalty to people that do good work for a fair price. And I'm also not afraid of getting my hands dirty and doing some of the easier things myself. Let me know what you think, if you have a few minutes to respond. Thanks and keep the videos coming.
Hey @Earl Lewis, sounds like EPro-2-Call might be a great option for you as a 2nd opinion to a local guy or yourself (electric-pro-academy.square.site/)! Otherwise, we covered a few things to look for in this video: th-cam.com/video/rJFIP0no6WM/w-d-xo.html. Let us know if that still leaves some questions.
Honestly an integrated electronics panel sounds horrific to maintain. I just had my furnace board fail... I do not want to have to plan on replacing my electrical panel every 5-10 years. I'd rather install smart outlets that link to a single app.
slotted screws everywhere, just why?
I have this and it’s great but the company is terrible to deal with.
Interesting! We've always had fantastic support from a US-based representative. Any other EPros had bad support?
I'd be afraid that if I pissed someone off, they'd hack into my panel and start shutting stuff off
This panel looks like it will cost a fortune to replace If it craps out.
Why are all your gloves ripped? I’ve never seen you with gloves that are not ripped.
I actually like the extra dexterity with the finger tips torn off. Some guys on our team cut the tips off their new gloves, but I just work mine off and then keep using them.
Knipex and Whia GERMAN tools, get a Knipex wire stripper, you will realize how bad Ideal, Klein, and others are. WHIA insulated torque screwdriver KIT 11 pcs, all bits insulated and handle... to set screws correctly on the breakers
So, from the POV of a home owner here... at about 5:00 it feels like your laughing at how much money you're going to make off of our backs. Not a good look.
I agree. It's disgusting.
Wow. Why shouldn’t he make money? Wonder how much the folks at Apple are laughing at us.
@@antmolincoln I didn't say he shouldn't make money. It's the attitude of disrespect for people that's kinda gross.
@@headybrew my mistake. I didn’t see him poking fun of the homeowner. Knowing the cost of these panels, I thought that was his point. That the old panels, just the panel can be bought for about $125 but in comparison, these are a lot more expensive.
My question was answered. A premium product automatically demands premium installation costs even though it takes the same time as a typical panel swapout. No thanks.
Why you wearing GLOVES MAN LOL
I almost don't like it because if it has electronics built in, thats just another thing to go wrong down the road..... making things "Smart" creates more problems down the road.... KISS! KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID! this panel is NOT simple....
Why do I need one "well you don't "computers don't like surge so let's put a computer in a panel and call it ground breaking with cooling fans running wtf
I also saw those fans... one more thing to replace when they inevitably wear out.