History of WWI Primer 121: Belgian Modele 1882 Comblain Documentary
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
- Bloke on the Range: Belgian M1871 Comblain Civil Guard Rifle:
• Belgian M1871 Comblain...
Thorneycroft to SA80: British Bullpup Firearms, 1901-2020:
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Othais and Mae delve into the story of this WWI classic. Complete with history, function, and live fire demonstration.
C&Rsenal presents its WWI Primer series; covering the firearms of this historic conflict one at a time in honor of the centennial anniversary. Join us every other Tuesday!
Additional reading:
candrsenal.com...
The Comblain Rifle: An Early Falling Block Breechloader
Jonathan Kirton
FN Mauser Rifles: Arming Belgium and the World
Anthony Vanderlinden
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
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Despite the lower amounts of views stuff like this gets, I just wanted to thank the crew over at C&Rsenal for talking about much lesser known rifles like the Comblain. There's so much cool history behind these rifles and I love every moment of it. Looking forward to the next episode!
"Okay, Guard civique, do you want a Spencer, or a Martini Henry style mechanism?"
"Yes"
"I have to say, that war were declared"
- Starts making artillery/machine gun noises. Then realises it's just me doing that and no usual WWD segment... -
Well done Othias, you got me.
A steady stream of Mae and Oat boy content is the only thing between me and ‘The Shining‘ tier cabin fever
I have enjoyed Primary&Secondary's open mike podcasts, Forgotten Weapons, Bloke on the Range, InRange and some political commentary. Luckily, there _IS_ a lot of quality content to keep me from going completely stir crazy. :)
Mark GEORGE Heeeere’s Markie! (sorry)
"Oat Boy" got me lmao
Fun fact: After Peru's 2.000, Chile bought some 12.500 of them to rearm its army so, when Peru went back to buy more the Belgians were busy making rifles for Chile and Brasil so they had to abandon the Comblain and adopt whatever was available, which ended up being a collection of several Chassepot derivatives converted to metallic cartridges.
Long story short, the Peruvians ended up being shot up and defeated by the Comblain rifles they had helped usher into the world market when Chile declared war on them for pretending to appear as honest mediator while being secretly allied to Bolivia, which had just declared war on Chile.
When Chile tried to get more Comblains and were unable to get little more than 5.000 in small batches here and there, they bought Gras (22.000 in the end, more than the Comblains) and Beaumont rifles, these two chambered for the same 11mm Comblain cartridge.
AFAIK, there were nowhere near 70.000 Comblains in Chile (close to 18.000), hence the need for the Gras and Beaumonts.
@Joseph Satri Cleofe Villanueva They did, and also got Gras, Chassepots, and their own domestic variant of the Gras whose name escapes me now. This made the ammunition supply for Peru a nightmare (but not as much as Bolivia, with 12 different types of cartridges)
@Joseph Satri Cleofe Villanueva In fact they ended with a bunch of them, some with Egyptian markings, others from a Spanish contract, plus a bunch of Peabody-Martinis.
The Comblain was simpler, more reliable... and they sent the purchase mission to Europe, so...
Chile was offered Remingtons made under the emergency French contracts, but rejected them due to poor quality.
Keep in mind, the weapons of countries at war were subject to capture at sea, so all purchases were sort of a cloak and dagger business.
The Chilean version is the most absurd that can be conceived since not even the Chilean historians themselves believe it: It speaks of a "defensive" war on the part of Chile since its independence was threatened by the "secret" treaty of Bolivian defensive alliance and Peru. And that stupidity is taught even today in Chilean schools, even though it does not resist even the most superficial analysis. It is obvious, as much as that Pisco was born in Pisco (Peru) that the war had as its motive the conquest of the Salitre deposits of Bolivia and Peru that, with the help of England, (then the first power) Chile could carry finished.
In the end, Chile is left with the desert, but riches like guano and nitrate fall into the hands of English capitalists.
@@pauljoseperezaizcorbe6088 LOL!!! It never ceases to amaze the silly stories the depressing peruvian schools teach those poor children, because you need the mind of a child to believe such tales of British conspiracy...
Not that I do not understand the need, after all, they need to blame Chile, otherwise they might realize it was all their fault meaning they would have to face reality... and they are not very good at that... XD
Greed is an ungrateful mistress, and the Peruvians paid the price for their greed and deceitfulness.
greed and deceitfulness????? OHHH LOL LOL . . . really??
"Chile would never have entered a single inch into the war, if it had not been for the support of the English capital" adding: "it was a complete mistake to speak of this conflict as a war between Chile and Peru ... it is a war of England against Peru, with Chile as an instrument ... I take responsibility for this statement. " (46). James G. Blaine, Secretary of State of the United States in 1881, expressed himself in the Senate during the term of President James A. Garfield. On January 30, 1882, James G. Blaine himself, in statements to the newspaper "The Washington Post", spoke about the relations between England and Chile in the war in the Pacific, and declared that that republic: (47). "He obtained battleships and war materiel from England. Chilean soldiers marched to Peru in English cloth uniform, with English rifles on their shoulders, English sympathy supported Chile in its conquest, and English commercial interests received a tremendous boost from aggrandizement. From Chile". Then, referring to the transactions that Chile was seeking at that time with England over the Peruvian saltpeter and guano, he expressed: (47) "English bankers will provide the money, English merchants will carry out business, English ships will load the products. More than 800 ships are involved in this business. " . . The war against Peru has been waged for the same interests that Clive and Hasting had in India. . . . "
Being one of those strange deviants that both own and shoot multiple Comblains (albeit Brazilian), I really appreciate this installment.
Thank You! Thank You! I was so in withdrawal, had the shakes and the jitters for a week and a half, the sweats with flashes of hot and cold for a week. I so needed my C&Rsenal Primer fix !!!
Is it weird that I saw this episode and my first thought was, "It would be cool to have a reproduction of a Comblain chambered in 7.62x54mmR"? And no, I'm not a Mosin fanboy or even a 7.62x54mmR fan in particular. I just think this would be a fun gun to have in a very common (easy to obtain) rimmed cartridge...
18:40 "more on that NEXT EPISODE" 😱
I can't wait. Just release it right now Othias!
Wow I am used to these releasing in a couple hours, but hey I'm not Comblainin'
*comblaining
i'm torn between two responses, "you should be ashamed of yourself" and "kudos, that one really stunk".
This could only be described as a sin against comedy. Keep it up and you’ll be Punnin’ with The Devil.
……………ughhhggggghhh… lol
If you’re getting this in-depth for WWI, it’s gonna be ON come the WWII series.
I fear most of the WWII stuff has been done to death. At least the interwar stuff has some interesting WWI tech in it like the Tommy Gun.
Honestly id rather see the age of Blackpowder. WWII has been done to death
@@AAX11111 Only if Mae gets to wear 1800s soldier hat.
The plan was to kind of do whatever after WW1 was done.
I have been waiting for this episode ever since I first saw this rifle on the wall.
"War were declared..." .....
.....
*crickets*
....
Nnnnnnnnot the Great War, though.
Well played, Othais.
First I was reluctant watching another black powder rifle. Glad I did it, because coolest single shot so far.
This presentation was top-notch; I have no combplaints. Edit: I knew I couldn't be the only one to pull this dad joke, but I didnt expect it to be a top comment!
I like the way several of our favourite weapon TH-cam vloggers are referencing each other and on occasions collaborating. The quality of the resultant cooperation is fantastic. Terrific video.
17:09 well played, you utter git. I lunged for the volume and spilled my drink.
Yanks don't know the word git. Wanker, tosser, prat and sod are all mostly wasted on them too.
Thanks for the mention!
What are you doing here? You need to be making content! :P
Anders Bendsen I guess my employer should be blamed for keeping me 100% employed despite the current situation and preventing me making more content 😉
Thanks for the input on the ammo for this! Helped a lot!
Triana Protection Enterprises LLC Non problem! It’s a pleasure to help others get their Comblain going. Later in the year I hope to have a 1 minute shoot-off between the Comblain and a Gras so see which is faster to operate.
Bloke at the range is my favorite channel
One spring powering the whole action is crazy neat!
I'm pleased to see the credits at the end of the episode, giving me a better idea of how the production of your videos are done. Thank you!
thank you so much for this video I have been doing research on small arms used in the war of the pacific and after 4 hour this is my first mention of this gun or much of anything about the small arms used.
Huzzah! The Comblain! I may have mentioned it a few times in the past....... Thank you Othias.
BTW the earliest ammunition was Boxer wrapped brass I believe.Then drawn brass.
You would think that the works hanging out would be prone to dirt but it is that little catch for the guard that is the bit which can get blocked by dirt. The tiny space behind the catch when it is open can get filled and make the action stiff and then fail to latch. As you say, the opening lever has to be snatched open briskly to best clear the spent case.
I used two fingers on the trigger with my old Comblain. Many ended up converted to shotguns for the civilian market.
This is way more information then I thought was needed. I have always admired the Comblain action and wanted to own one once I could find one I could afford. I finally found a Belgium made miniature Comblain auctioned shotgun ! It’s a 410 that is very petite and may have once been made as a rook rifle but later bored and reamed to be a 410 shotgun.
I really enjoy it and think the designer was a genius. I liked the video, especially watching the very attractive young lady shoot the big heavy black powder rifle and seemed to enjoy it . Thanks for all the information !
..."the barrel burst but the action remained undamaged." Bravo! That's a stronk piece.
Good to see you playing around with the format and our expectations. Keeping it fresh is always a good thing.
An article in the Oswestry Advertiser - Wednesday 17 August 1870 - claimed that the Westley Richards ejected spent casings better than the Comblain did. Maybe the people who were using them (in a competition) didn't have Mae's panache with the lever? As an aside they said that the volunteer militia, armed with muzzle loaders, would have no chance against a force armed with breech loaders like the Westley Richards or Comblain because of the rate of fire, and need to stand up while reloading.
Thank you for another wonderful episode. Talk about a relic of a firearm.
The 1.952 Chilean Kropatscheks were sent to Chile on the Almvick Castle (Alnwick, maybe?) on December 13th, 1880. Btw. Each costing 85 francs, compared to the 43 francs of each Beaumont claimed to be acquired at a fire sale price. 16.000 Gras were contracted at 65 francs each as well. Comblains were claimed to cost almost double than a Beaumont.
I mean im on lockdown and had my hours slashed in half but hey, pre midnight C&Rsenal.
Just in time for me to listen to on the way home from work, great timing guys!
We aim to please.
@@maewinchester2030 And y'all hit every target.
Two minor notes: Brazil did not order or received long tail Comblains of any kind. Also, the Brazilian model 5 does not accept the earlier type of cartridge, the model 6 had to have its loading channel milled to receive these cartridges, which had larger rims. The video was very good, thanks!
Olá Adler. Conheço o site Armas Brasil e acho uma das melhores, senão a melhor compilação de dados sobre armas adotadas pelas Forças Armadas que existe, mas está sem atualização a muitos anos. Você sabe se existe algum projeto de retomar o site ou se aqueles dados valiosíssimos foram ou serão transformados em livro? Eu seria o primeiro a comprar. Um grande abraço.
@@HermesBarcelos Hermes, Saudações!
Primeiro, obrigado pelas gentis palavras. Sobre sítio, infelizmente não há um projeto de atualizar o ArmasBrasil, foi um projeto que fiz quando estava desocupado no meu trabalho, que é exatamente o oposto da minha situação atual.
@@adlerh.f.decastro1646 Uma pena, merecia virar livro, série, documentário, ficou excelente, meus parabéns, deve ter sido um trabalho e tanto de pesquisa. Grande abraço.
Things like this are some of my favorites. I love seeing these old school single shot rifles.
The Garde Civil sounds like a modern take on the Anglo-Saxon fyrd or the militias of Italian city-states in the Medieval and Renaissance periods. Garde Civil taking a different rifle from the army is similar to the US after the Civil War. Several books I own such as William B. Edwards "Civil War Guns" and several on guns in the American frontier describe post-war how different states modernized their state militias with various conversion systems or ground up metal case breechloaders in the 1860s and '70s that were totally different from the Allin conversion and later trapdoor Springfields the Army adopted.
I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS FOREVER!!!!
At first I was a bit upset, seeing this episode is only a 37min long. But turns out it is a two-parter. Yay! Thanks a lot for bringing to us knowledge about this unique rifle family! I was fascinated by it since discovered it somewhere in early 10s: different from over of its kind (single-shot blackpowders), somewhat widespread, rich in variety. But extremely unpresented in the internet! Heck, so many models, lol.
In these trying times I have one question: "Is Crozier doing alright?"
Empire of Brazil (1822-1889) used this rifle and - quite unfortunately - the tyrannical oppressions of the republic in its first years after the coup saw this gun used against poor people like the jagunços at Canudos.
But in any case, it's quite a rare gun to see, and a nice one. Many thanks.
The perks of staying up late for classwork is seeing this beautiful notification to give me a study break, thank you you handsome, bearded man
@17:34 I don't like sand. It's course and rough, and it gets everywhere.
OK Anakin
Way cool. Thanks and holding you to the next show tying all this together.
Beautiful simplicity. Gym finally opened up on a limited basis so I am catching up on C&rsenal.
What a cool action. Simplicity and elegance. Looks pretty rugged too.
Great episode guys. Just what we need to stop us from climbing the walls.
Chile won the pacific war (1879-1884) with this rifle, the gras 1874 and the winchester 1866 for the cavalry. Nice video!! Greetings from Chile!
Cavalry, not chivalry, saludos!
I really don't why but I love the look of this gun, especially what's going on around the trigger.
Your everywhere i go bro
I'm actually going to get to bed before midnight on a Monday night!
Very neat! I haven't seen this one before. It sure looks similar to an 1885 Winchester. I wonder if John Browning copied and changed this design when he made the 1885?
That thing looks like a blast to shoot, looking forward to more next episode.
Some examples of the brazilian comblain were found in use by Uruguayan Aparicio Saravia revolucionarie troops in their last stand in the year of 1904 in the battle of Masoller . the "standard" for those troops was the remington rolling block but they used lots of other arms as 1873 winchesters ,some 11mm chassepots, 1871 mausers and random pistols and percussion guns .
For some reason, reading the title, my mind translated “Belgian” to “Random South American Country”
Well, we fight people over potatoes, mainly its origin... we are made of two distinct group of peoples who have mixed, but there are still a lot of issues... we also have a history of mistreating black people...
Back in the late '80s, I saw a sporting rifle made with a Comblain action. It was essentially carbine length & weight. I was short on cash at the time so I didn't get it. I can still picture it - what a sweetie!
I can't wait for the Martini-Henry episode.
Hybris51129 Zulu’s, thousands of em!
Will there be an episode on the British Martini-Henry, or Martini-Enfield? The weapon was issued to airmen early in the Great War for use against balloons and was issued to native troops in Africa.
You know, with all of the single shot rifles, like the Henry and Contender that I see on gunbroker, it's a pity no-one makes modern caliber repops of the Martini-Henry, Borchardt, Burgess single shots or even the Comblain. I'd love to get my hands on them.
The number 1 is pretty close to a farquarson.
The amount of shop time required to build reproduction firearms makes them extremely expensive to produce and purchase. Then comes the low demand for obscure rifles and the BS stigma of it being a reproduction firearm. It would be so cool to have an American gun manufacturer willing to dedicate a division of the company that's able to produce high quality, obscure firearms for less than $20,000 each. All 50 of us would buy like crazy.
@@uraniumpenetrator3844 that's a good point, sadly. You'd think it would be cheaper with all of the CNC machine shops and after market barrel makers there are.
@@itatane The barrel blanks are the cheapest part of the firearm. The costly part comes from obtaining obscure guns to make precision blueprints. Then comes working out the kinks of ammunition. Going from a rimmed cartridge to a rimless cartridge requires modifications to the ejection system, and so on. Then sometimes Patent issues. Then after making a prototype that actually functions, time for a production run of 3 firearms. Plus everything I forgot to add in to make this as brief as possible. I will add that modern ordinance steel and CNC machines have indeed made gun manufacturing much cheaper.
@@uraniumpenetrator3844Just run 7.62x54mmR
Brilliant design, so simple, and so durable.
No Maversation or "War were declared." I did see Chap and his Comblain....and looking forward to the rest of the story.
The computerized highlighted cut away is a big help to understanding the functioning of the action, the slow motion extraction was interesting as well. May should wear sunglasses out at the range, she is always squinting her eyes.
Short, but sweet well done😀
In 1895, Brazil rebarreled an unknown quantity to 7mm Mauser (7x57) for police use. A real testament to the strength of the action.
Found information on the number of rifles bought by Chile during the 1879 War of the Pacific and their price, it may be of interest:
Comblain II 18.206 rifles at £ 3,51 each
Gras 22.808 rifles at £ 2,48 each
Beaumont 9.964 rifles at £ 1,72 each
Kropatschek 1.952 rifles at £ 3,40 each
Winchester 4.868 carbines at £ 3.58 each
These are war contraband prices of course.
I might have to change my opinion on the rolling block being my favorite single shot rifle design... this thing is brilliant :O
(talking about the technology and simplicity involved here)
Hurrah for Tuesday!
Question!
If the Comblain's Action was so overly tough, how come it wasn't shifted to using Smokeless Powder? Normally its because the system can't take the pressures, but this had to obstruct the barrel and over charged and still the action worked so what reasons did the government give to not convert it?
The way that I understand the metallic cartridge time line is: By the time smokeless powder came out in 1886, single shot rifles, weak cartridge cases, and lead bullets became obsolete almost overnight. Repeating rifles, strong brass casings, and jacketed bullets designed to handle the higher powered smokeless powder became the hot ticket. It would be so cool to make a reproduction in 50-110. Or any other big BP cartridge, for that matter. Extremely expensive, but way cool. Fascinating rifle.
Acctualy the Police of Rio de Janeiro had some Comblain Carbines converted apparently in Belgium to fire 7x57mm, this was donne in the late 1890s early 1900s, time when Brazil used the 1895 and 1908 Mauser rifles in 7x57mm, these carbines are extremly rare, i never seen one, i own a regular No.2 Brazilian rifle
why convert it to both a new cartridge and loading system (repeating) when they could buy rifles that were built for it from the start?
Would you guys be interested in testing a Boer Mauser c series, Swiss vetterli or a Dutch beaumont?? I'll send them to you.
Ooh, new single shots! Yay!
Question for you guys on this, did the Werder show up as a reserve arm for Germany in the war at all?
Thebluebridgetroll no
The lever bears a passing resemblance to a Burnside lever, but without the latch in the front. You would put pressure in about the same place, though.
Thanks for the video.
I wonder why gun drawings of a small part of the gun always feel the need to show the stock as roughly broken. It's a visual aid, there's no need for such violence against the poor wood.
Been looking forward to this one. And I don't even own one. Vive les Belges!
So, its pretty much a Martini Henry's Older Belgian brother. Cool👍
I'm surprised they haven't done the Martinis yet. Tons of use of Henry, Metfords and Enfields by British colonial troops in Africa and the Mideast, Used by the Ottoman Empire and across the Balkans. Berdan II as well. Those two round out the big ones for large bore single shots in the war.
Wll G it’s probably cause the rifle has such a significant reputation that they want to get it right.
Seems more like a Sharps than a Martini
The martini would be the Elder by about 11 years.
awesome video!!
Omg I've missed you guys!
Great video.
Francisco Bolognesi is Peru's #1 army hero.
Also, and this is minor, the map you use for Peru is surprisingly wrong. The northwestern border with Ecuador is wrong and the border with Chile shows the results of the Pacific War (1879-83) where Peru lost territory in the south.
This is my favorite map for it's near-random borders the further you get from France.
Peru lost that southern territory in what was the most brazen and criminal expansionist war perpetrated by greedy Chilean politicians and financed by English capitalists who in the end will keep the saltpeter of Bolivia and Peru while Chile alone with the desert.
@@pauljoseperezaizcorbe6088 LOL!!! How ignorant and peruvian you have to be to make such an idiotic comment!!! 🤣🤣🤣
You people messed with the bull and got the horns, keep crying....
@@Candrsenal Dont worry, the funny peruvian is wrong and the map is fine, it just doesnt fit THEIR twisted view of history and facts
That looks like it would be an excellent rifle for deer stalking or tracking. The weight would be a bit annoying but help mitigate recoil. You could probably reload for it too. I’m really honestly thinking about buying one of these one day but I must resist
@C&Rsenal curious observation that Bolognesi would have been killed by a Chilean rifleman who could have been carrying a Comblain. Although Chilean soldiers also used other models during the conflict, like the French-made Gras.
When the villar perosa video coming out?
Very interesting, thanks for sharing!
That is one honking big rifle.
The way a fair chunk of the mechanism hangs down into the trigger guard is sort of weird, but it seems to work easy enough. I suspect it would be easier to break with smokeless powder, and knowing how much would be interesting, but testing one of the survivors to destruction isn't really something you want to do.
The Borchardt action requires a quick flick of the lever for the empty case to fly clear of the action - just like the Comblain.
I have missed seeing your grin, @mae!
Foi adotado no nosso exército brasileiro 1873. Há relatos de Forças policiais que o usaram aqui até 1930
Eu consegui fotos de soldados brasileiros com esses rifles na revolta da armada e também no conflito que aconteceu no sertão baiano em canudos , na foto da revolta da armada que deve ser de 1893 ou 1894 você via visivelmente soldados brasileiros com aqueles rifles
@@Joao-zb1ie legal. esses fuzis são convertidos para serem usados como espingarda ja que sua câmara calça o cartucho .28.
wow he's really still going huh. love that
Wonder if some research from King Leopold's Ghost was needed for the next episode, very fascinating book...
Comblain was 8 years old when Napoleon died, and designed rifles used in WW1. Crazy! 😮
Very esthetic beautiful rifle
I've looked around a bit and I don't see anything (video-wise) on that Westley-Richards 1871 (or improved-patent) rifle. Are they exceedingly rare or what?
Hey Othais, been meaning to ask but kept forgetting, but do you have any sources on the gardener and greene rifles from the long lee episode other than the royal armouries themselves?
ummm... has there ALWAYS been a music bed during the whole video? not just titles and Mae's shooting segments, but whole thing? did someone do audio differently/betterer? (yes, yes... it was intended) even the shots sound better!
Who else forwarded till they got to the shooting bit?
the twisted history of this gun!
Oh interesting , A friend of mine has a trials Comblain (Enfield conversion)rifle(tip up) made by E.M Riley . I actually fired it, very accurate gun, however the mechanism is a little delicate.
I love the design of that gun it’s a tank!
Great vid
This one is better than Martini-Henry
Now I'm curious why several agencies chose the Comblain over the Martini-Henry.
Was that a black powder reload Mae was firing?
I have no idea why, but something about that action is just incredibly satisfying. I really want one of these now... does anyone know of modern caliber remakes, so I don't have to handload?
I've seen many actions mated to all sorts of calibres, similar to the rolling block. No modern repros though.
oh francisco bolognesi died in my hometown during the pacific war, i didnt know that he was related to the comblain, neat
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