History of WWI Primer 122: Belgian Comblain Mousqueton Modele 1871/83 Documentary
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- Othais and Mae delve into the story of this WWI classic. Complete with history, function, and live fire demonstration.
C&Rsenal presents its WWI Primer series; covering the firearms of this historic conflict one at a time in honor of the centennial anniversary. Join us every other Tuesday!
Additional reading:
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The Comblain Rifle: An Early Falling Block Breechloader
Jonathan Kirton
FN Mauser Rifles: Arming Belgium and the World
Anthony Vanderlinden
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
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Othais: "Would you take this into the war?"
Gun: *has unjacketed lead bullet*
Mae: "The Hague convention requires me to say no..."
lead poisoning bad.
The Hague convention does not ban all-lead bullets as they don't travel fast enough to expand or deform significantly. It does ban jacketed bullets with exposed lead points.
You get the feeling that Mae likes certain rifles more than others. I'm guessing she enjoyed this one, but it wouldn't be as practical as some of the others....
David Brennan Especially when it’s acute!
The backgorund story reminds me of my own family's war stories. The Germans did freak out about Franc-Tireurs, but they had good reasons to be like that during both wars.
My great-great-grandfather (mother side) was resistance member during the entire war, got caught, just to be saved 1 week before his execution by incoming allied forces in 1918. He got plenty of medals for his actions (Belgian, French and even Brittish ones). He told that they were mostly doing sabotage. But the first months of the war they didn't hesitate to take a pot shot around the corner and instantly disappear, letting the Germans freak out and dump all their bullets at empty streets.
My other great-great-grandfather (father's side) was in the Gendarmerie. During the invasion in 1939 he took his only service revolver and bicycle to the Albert Canal. "We're gonna stop them at the canal!" did he scream to his family while leaving. He reached the canal and waited at a small bridge. Suddenly showed up a column of Germans at the other side "almost walking like at parade". He was completely alone but took 3 shots nonetheless (missing them all at such distance obv). "And then Hell started". The Germans started to scream and panic. At his 3rd shot they finally identified his obvious uncovered position and all started to shoot him. He took cover, tens of bullets blazing around. He quickly grabbed his bicycle and went back home full speed, completely unharmed, still under fire. "Holy sh**! Never again!" did he say while the other villagers (and his wife too) couldn't stop laughing. His story still makes our familly laugh when remembered.
All such things are oral transmitted, so bound to disappear someday. Which sounds a bit sad, but that's how History has worked up until now.
Thank you for sharing this
He got lucky, in every war in history for these actions whole villages got (well deserved) executed.
@@23GreyFox , I don't agree. If you go invading somebody, you should expect them to be miffed...
He should have written a book.
thank you for sharing this history!
Now that you've informed me of their existence, I really want one of those Brazilian rechambered 7mm Comblains. A mechanically dead simple, funky old single shot action is very much my jam, and having it in a cartridge that still exists? Hell yeah!
Before they got to that part I thought it would be cool to find one with a rotten bore to rebarrel to something like 45 colt.
Were used by the guard of the Petrópolis Palace from 1888, there are only 4 specimens remaining, of these Comblens in 7mm Mauser, two in the Military Police Museum of Rio de Janeiro, one in the Museum of the Agulhas Negras Army Officers School and one carbine at the Ipiranga Museum in São Paulo.
@@wadekirby8575 In Brazil many Comblens, model of Infantry were converted to calibers of hunting rifles, the most common in .410 and .32 made by the old Weapons Factory of Itajubá (current Imbel) in the 40s and 50s. I have also seen some specimens converted by 44-40 and 32-20 caliber gunsmiths.
@@marcussilvabrombila309 A shame, I must admit, but I was already half expecting something like that. Only a handful or two surviving is all too often the fate of old, weird, and low production guns and the greater shame by far is that these count among that group.
@@StacheMan26 The thing is, back then what they thought they were doing was converting obsolete junk, never dreaming that the obsolete junk would one day become a sought-after piece of history.
As a belgian, i really appreciate this video ! Our duty rifles/carbines were so badass !
Also, pictures you showed were so interesting !
About "firemen", it may be an error in translation... we used the term "sapeurs" which translate in France's french as "firemen" but in belgian french and in our army, it was a term used for combat engineers ! (the reason why they had weapons)
Also, fun fact ; they redacted the law about firearms with this rifle in mind ! Everything prior this one and this one include is considered as "free sale firearm" !
@@gwtpictgwtpict4214 Yep, even in the US Army, there were sappers who served with the Engineers, I was stationed with the 18th Eng Bde in Vietnam. The enemy used Sappers largely to infiltrate our camps and blow up targets. For some reason they really loved blowing up our shitters and showers! One even blew up our R&U shop. I guess I can be thankful they never blew up the real important places such as our Tactical Operations Center, the building I worked out of for several months after I arrived, of course hitting that building would take a much larger charge as it had walls filled with 55 gallon drums full of beach sand, sand bags between and PCP on all the walls, the roof was 4 feet thick with PCP then some sort of rubber, and of course the sand that was all around us to stop rockets and such, then more PCP over the top and some rubber over the top of that covering the PCP so the rain didn't come through. The US Sappers were used to blow bridges and that sort of thing, they were well trained in infiltration, much like their counterpart on the NVA and VC side. A very specialized operation. I only really knew about them when I transferred up country and joined the 45th Engineer Group in the DaNang area, there I worked in a landline teletype center sending and receiving classified documents from higher headquarters in Long Bien, and out to our daughter units in the field so every damn drop of fuel round of ammo and length of barbed wire usage passed over my machine, also all casualties information and that sort. It was all sent through communication security devices, then decoded on our side by them and printed out to a page printer so it could be hand carried to the recipient. Of course we had to read it all to insure there were no inadvertent errors by a weak tube in the amplifiers that were at both ends of the wire. I say wire, some went via microwave where shots could be better setup.
Yes, the origins of Sapper comes from the days when gunpowder explosives were a new tool for combat demolition, so they were firemen because they created fire. Much as we changed the command for ranged attack from "loose" to "fire" when firearms replaced bows as the weapon dominant ranged weapon. You would 'loose' your bowstring to send an arrow off, but you would "fire" a gun by applying fire to the powder. Fun how these terms go around over time. If lasers ever become the dominant weapon, we may see the expression "open fire" replaced with "flash!"
@@genericpersonx333 Somehow "flash" seems like a command that could cause quite some confusion... I'm imagining special trousers that are difficult to lower being designed to encourage troops to fire their rifles, rather than expose them.
In a similar vein, the Spanish armed forces use, up to the modern day, the term "zapadores", which after a Google search seems it might come from the same root, either the French verb "saper", to undermine or dig under (a fortification), or, according to other sources, the word "sappa", which designated a digging tool, in either Latin or French depending on each source. If anyone has any idea whether this is correct or not please let me know, I've gone down the rabbit hole already and need answers.
That "rifles and hobby horses" slide may be the best opening photo this show has ever had. That is amazing.
what a sense of humor ehh?
@@handonthegat2989 Smoking!
"Look we cannot afford to give you proper rifles".
"OK, but we get horses, right?"
"*cough* Oh yeah, about that... *cough*".
As a Belgian I was confused by the term Garde Civique, never heard it. in flanders its called de Burgerwacht of de Schutterij, the Schutterij is still around (heck I am a part of it). Sure it is no longer supported as a paramilitary group by the gouverment but its more part of our historical heritage, as we still shoot breachloaders.
A classic problem for the people of Flanders. Even now, your national government defaults to French terminology for national institutions when talking to outsiders. In thirty years of dealing with European history and relations, I can safely I have never found an English-language resource concerning Belgium that uses the Flemish terminology in preference to the French, if it contains the Flemish at all. Even the couple of books I read about Walloon-Flemish relations used the French terms by preference. Sorry to say, but the Walloons still dominate the Belgian narrative. Some things never change it seems.
Othais acknowledging that folks like me fall asleep to his soft, deeply interested narration, only to be briefly woken up by Mae letting loose on the range makes me feel VERY seen.
Oh god, yeah. zzzzEeek! Yeah, his voice definitely does that. Glad to hear it's not just me. (He types at 4:15am)
Happens to me, I end up listening to it like a podcast when he's not pointing anything out on the weapon itself (I quickly turn to my phone whenever the words "patented pokey hand" are spoken) and then suddenly BANG
ive known the german were by no means tender occupiers (though nowhere near as bad as painted by brit propaganda), but the angle in regards to this specific weapon was completely unknown to me. this is great history work folks! much bravo to you all!!!
"Mein Gott! Zee Belgian partizans haff a black powder single shott rifle zat schoots zee lead boolets!"-exclaims Hans, the strumtrooper as he primes his flammenwaffen...
Yeah but neither the flame the flamethrower or sturmtruppen existed in 1914...
@@danschneider9921 Belgium was still partially occupied and at war with Germany until the Armistice in 1918. Though it's not really relevant either way; really the comment was meant to illustrate the hypocrisy of the German complaints of illegal warfare while simultaneously inventing horrific and illegal weapons themselves.
@@colbunkmust yeah and let's not forget nuke and napalm...oh wait that wasn't those guys...
@@beargillium2369 Belgian partizans in WWI didn't have nuclear weapons or napalm either... The hypocrisy of Germany's complaints during WWI isn't effected by whataboutisms related to American weapons used in another war.
@@colbunkmust chill out guy. It wasn't whateveraboutism. Is was sarcasm. Ffs
I kinda prefer the simplicity of the Remington Rollingblock for a breachloading single loading mechanism. No way you can damage it or go wrong.
If someone would give me one then I can find a way.
Othais doing those late night drops like German zeppelin raids!
Imagine how Germany would have freaked invading the US in 1914 where guns are everywhere and most are still not jacketed bullets.
Invading the US...
Imagine beeing that mad
@@Niklas.K95
well... US wasn't the war driven factory it became after ww2, invasion and even conquest was most probably possible, of course it would be "complex" as you have to pass an ocean or Alaska...
What’s the name of that movie ? “Black Dawn” maybe...or”Steel Dawn”
@@xgford94
"black dawn" is a steven segal movie, "Steel Dawn" is a post apocalyptic movie a-la Mad Max. there is "Iron sky", a finnish comedy movie, but it's about "nazist ufo" pseudo history.
there is "Red Dawn", a silly american movie about a soviet invasion of the US, of which there is the completely ludicrious reboot done because people wanted to bring the "call of duty"kids into cinema...of course missing the point completely because USA was never the "pathetic underdog victim" in CoD... except the new one?
1r0zz yep on thinking about it I’m going with “Iron Dawn” Because O v B ... but PFC Atlantic will always be the first soldier defending the U.S. from Europe and on the Red Dawn movies the first on was preposterous...But fun the reboot didn’t even reach stupidly preposterous.
You might want you read up on your Hague convention, it only prohibits bullets designed to expand or fragment inside the body. Classic low velocity lead rounds did not meet this threshold. Metal jackets were necessary for all sorts of other reasons.
Othais, I'd like to thank you for suggesting Bloke On the Range's video on this, I ended up subscribing to his channel as well. It would be disingenuous of me to say I wasn't looking forward to Mae finally letting loose on the target with it. However, you're underestimating how much we look forward to "Firearms History with the Bearded Weirdie."
Sounds familiar. I've been on the end of a few "wierded beardo" comments.
This went up as soon as I sat down with dinner. Talk about timing.
One of my paternal great-grandfathers did national service in 1911 in Belgium. Not sure what he would have been armed with, I don't have his records myself. Anyway, this is, as always, top shelf information.
Considering what Guard did was preventing banditry or looting, that kinda make sense they had armed firemen, I meant what the chance theres thieves and bandits going looting in the panick of big fires
Stay safe and healthy down there guys, and here's hoping your HVAC system doesn't catch fire again
What do an armed group of firemen do when they hear FIRE? 🤔
They read Ray Bradbury.
They shoot at the base of the flames in a sweeping motion
Shoot the source of the fire, of course.
@@rhinovirus2225 PASS. Pull the pin Aim at the base and sweep in a side to side motion. This would probably work better with a Maxim?!? Either way the fire would die?
@@monkeyship74401 this guy knows what I'm talking about
48:07 She went straight for the length, there you have it guys, size matters.
I had no idea how late it was until the C@rsenal notification showed up on my phone.
Terence Zuber addressed allegations of Belgian franc-tireurs at some length in his books on the Siege of Liege and the Battle of the Frontiers - bluntly, that they were absolutely there shooting at the German Army and they were pretty common. The Germans kept extensive regimental records and could quite easily tell when they were being engaged by civilians - and they took notes.
That was a great tale of the Great Belgian Boogaloo
I'm on a kick of watching videos of breechloading firearms at the moment. I'm really enjoying your series as they are chock-full of history and information regarding the designs. This is wonderful work by all involved.
16:41
LET SLIP THE DOGS OF WAR
awww who's a good boy
Are you sure it's not the "hogs" of war?
Excited to see this episode!
I now have a desire to buy a Ruger No. 1 for some reason...
Othias: "And, as we covered last time..."
Me: "Yes...Last time....Definitely recall all of this....from last time...absolutely No need for a pop quiz....because...yep...Definitely remember all of this information"
It's a good thing the internet never forgets, right?
Thank you for finally explaining the Rape of Belgium. It always seemed out of character for the early Western front, but if the Germans were paranoid about partisans and seeing the guards civique it all makes sense as a thing done by humans rather than monsters.
If you travel in Belgium,many villages have a brass plaque describing the men executed by the WW1 Germans. Priest,schoolteacher,major landowner,mayor,then the people mentioned here. Very few priests are snipers or franc-tireurs. Unquestionably there was highly negative propaganda that had little fact to it,but the memories of brutal treatment during occupation of two wars remain multigenerational. There was highly variable treatment during both occupations,but at the village level the domination was harsh,food scarce,education nonexistent,life reduced to basics for years. Add the executions and people were very willing to believe the worst of all German troops.
Damm! Why do these always post early morning in UK? I have a Key Job, so hey hoo off to work I go. Though I'm thankful for it. Keep safe all.
To be fair, your country insisted on the clocks being set by Greenwich Mean Time, so the fact that we Yanks are 6-9 hours behind you is not exactly our fault. You could have saved an hour or two by letting the French or Germans claim Mean Time, but your British pride said nope. All joking aside, I hope you have a good day and maybe you can squeeze this in on your lunch.
@@genericpersonx333 It was your lot, as well as us that ganged up against the French to ensure that Greenwich Time was adopted! Mainly because everyone used British Hydrographical Charts. The French got given charge of the Leap Second, just to stop them crying to much. Funny enough where I live if I go 5 miles West from home, i've crossed from Eastern Hemisphere. hemisphere to west. :-) Hey, keep well my friend!
It's almost as if invading another country is going to cause that populace to literally hate you. Who would have expected this?
but they asked ever so politely.
When the natzi's invaded the Ukraine, I read they were welcomed! 'Save us from Stalin!' Until the SS came in....
Blackpowder Weapons are always the most interesting to learn about because their Creators are almost exclusively Semi-Mythical in nature.
Please do a Series on the Last Muzzle Loaders and the First Breech Loaders (1850s to 1870s) and the rise of the Metal Cartridge, would also be really interesting to have Episodes focusing on the Evolution of Munitions.
Long time fan of the show.
Mousqueton Mae and the Francs-tireurs are coming to your town, Bonne chance!
Thanks guys. Looking forward to the 1911 episode SO much too, it's going to be even more special now :-D
Love what you do.
4th? Also you also are managing to bring the most unique and archaic items that I never thought might exist to light.
No, we didn't come to see May pull the trigger on that thang, we came to see Gun Moses say "And War Were Declared".
Fantastic as always! Good to see you both safe, healthy and in good humour.
I always love watching your vids, so much info and a tad bit of sarcasm to keep things on the lighter side. Well done, keep it up.
I love how Meg can't wipe the perma smile off her face LOL
If you assume a 10 inch group is the same as a man sized hit, the Comblain is a solid 300 yard rifle using modern hand loads, which likely don't do as well as original military ammo...and in the case of my two rifles, I sincerely hope the Guard's rifles were in better condition than mine. It is in the nature of occupying a country by force that some of the locals are going to take violent exception to your presence. I have little doubt that there were multiple pot shots taken at the Germans and there is amble evidence of their reaction. The scope of civilian actions in this regard can never be known, which is also the nature of occupations, whether in 1914 or 2014. Belgium in 1914 still had wide spread civilian ownership of arms, so the means was certainly there for substantial resistance.
This rifle is so cool for a single shot.
Love the photo of the cavalry at the beginning.
Greetings from Brazil!!
Thanks for a great video
As far as Mae"s comment about hand rotation on ejection, remember that is adding angular momentum to the system and will be more efficient in the cycle.
The Hague convention doesn't ban jacketless lead bullets, it band jacketed bullets designed to expand. I recall it also applies to conventional armies against other conventional armies.
Watched this while working my night shift job.
Keep it up, I really appreciate what y’all do
Now I want to see a modern military unit wearing bowler hats.
Were these issued with Mouskaears? Sorry, I'm an old guy, Mickey Mouse Club was a part of my early life. Ah, that Annette, she started growing bumps at the same time I started noticing bumps.
13:05 that sounded like the stock pull the hammer back on a pistol sound effect you hear in movies
Simple, robust action. Inexpensive to manufacture and maintain. Best of single shot, black powders of that era? Would be interesting to see it adapted to modern smaller caliber, smokeless ammo.
Like 7 mm Mauser???
If I look to some single shot hunting guns used today, I can understand your thinking.
thank you guys for another in depth well informed video.take care and stay safe.tom
Very interesting story. Enjoyable episode.
Another fine video but I have one request. Particularly with the old black powder guns using unusual ammunition I ‘d really appreciate more discussion and views of the cartridges themselves with some data on the loads used back then. Thanks.
I’m sorry, you invade my country, no convention is going to stop me doing “naughty “ things , your choice your consequence
Then you must accept the response given by the invading power. In those days (and possibly still, I'm no expert on the laws of war) civilians taking up arms were criminals and could be executed by a military court. Or if the perpetrator could not be found, the community could be held responsible and reprisals extracted. Either through the destruction of property or through execution of members of the community regardless of their participation in your actions.
It was the basis for many of the arrests of Taleban Warriors (foreign or Afghan), without a recognizable uniform and chain of command, they are not soldiers and cannot be treated as PoWs, but as criminals taking up arms against a lawful power.
That was my same thought as well OP.
Rasmus Kragh-Hansen I do very much take your point, and yet nobody questions the action of the French resistance, and today you never hear of an honoured Vichy soldier, War is the ultimate crime and those that set rule of war the greatest of hypocrites. And if anyone can explain how a Flamethrower is more humane than a soft point projectile I’ll eat my hat.
This reminds me. There is a notable gunshop in vermont called " the powder horne" . (taft corners , williston vt incase there are multiple stores of that name.) while they have a large amount of newer designs, they often have old and intetesting foreign military arms . its actually the cartridge measurements that jogged my memory ...weird.
Anywho they would be worth talking too about this stuff.I cant say they HAVE any particular design , but You never know. They truely are worth asking...last time i was there , the shop had a room full of old military guns and alot of black powder cartridge rifles.
How common are those Brazilian 7mm's in the US? Seems like it could be a nice little shooter.
No Brasil, o Comblain utilizava munição 11×54 mm . Na Polícia do Rio de Janeiro, utiliza-se Comblain 7×57 Mauser.
Somewhere i had read that those three armed fire brigades had Gras rifles until 1936 and the disarmed.
Yet another interesting rifle and carbine, stay safe guys
C&ASMRsenal? :D I find myself strangely in agreement with that.
On a sidenote, I can think of few things I would like to have less, sniping from a hidden vantage point then a freaking black powder gun.
How about a knife
Miniature trebuchet.
It is soothing, even if there's no anxiety stuff.
No Brasil, se fabricava munição para os Comblaim, em 2 calibres.
Eram feitos de folhas de latão, enroladas. Provavelmente deviam umedecer muito fácil. A FABRICA DE MUNIÇÕES DE CUIABÁ, era uma delas.
This video is how I found the origin of the portuguese word "franco atirador" (basicaly marksman/ sniper) comes from Franc-tireur. I was not expecting that at all.
thanks guys
I've got a question. Ya'll mentioned that this weapon fired unjacketed ammo, and how that violates the Hauge Convention. But the Webley Revolvers and Webley Self Loading Pistol also fired unjacketed ammunition. So was the requirement for Jacketed ammo exclusive to rifles and Hollowpoints were hard banned? Or is there something else I'm missing?
The ban was on expanding ammo. Lead was generally avoided due to accusations but not specifically banned.
@@Candrsenal Ah, that makes sense.
Just out of curiosity, I wonder how many of these guns got sent to the Belgian Congo either before or during the war (after being withdrawn from 1st and 2nd line service in Europe)?
Wearing bowler hats into battle. serious style points.
I have never heard of that
You know what would change the angle of the hand relative to the trigger so the trigger finger would pull straighter back? A semi-pistol grip. Mae for the win.
I don’t need sleep
Any plans to do a video on the Bavarian breech loader they used before unifying with the rest of Germany?
Any record of it seeing use in The Great War? If so, he'll probably cover it. Primer is a WW1 show for the time being
13:25 fireworks! nice! 🤩
I wonder if a lever action style finger loop would make ejection easier. Then again it might have too wide of a swing and maybe not leverage? I don't know, need to figure that one out
Not sure why...but I want to rock one of these.
Looks like a fun gun to shoot!
Didn't lever actions exist by the 1870s? I wonder why these only used the trigger guards to open the breach, which seems dangerous with the trigger right there, instead of extending the guard and adding another loop for the user's middle to pinkie fingers.
Ok fascinating episode - imho your best!
wonder what firearm blew Mae's mind the most
Man, I want one. Wonder what one of those full stock cavalry ones cost?
I need one ...
Oh look it's Tuesday. And TH-cam has the old UI on this channel. What's going on
How good is the usability with heavy winter gloves?
I would imagine it to be quite doable.
Great vid
what is the roughest pistol and rifle she ever shot?
I am a native french speaker, and I love the fact that your world map is in french. just sayin'
It's too bad the phosphor bronze didn't end up working out that well. It certainly looks very nice.
Do you think you could include the detail of how much you paid for the rifle, and maybe its value over time? Understandable if its outside the scope of your channel but would be interesting
SpyCzech A lot of the firearms used in this series are borrowed.
Compared to the Werndel?
Within the first 700 veiws!!!!!!
Love this channel
Hurrah for every other Tuesday!
May can make eny fire arm look good.
I think he is making this all up! lol
great video for serious gun nerds!
LOVE IT
Very informative on the 'rape of Belgium"!
Never saw the Hague Convention old men in any war.
_invades country with no war declaration and not even any casus beli_
Prussia: Hey! Insurgents are illegal Belgium! Remember, you forced our hand!
Belgium: fml
Cool
Also Modifi-AY
What does such a weapon cost