C&Rsenal welcomes Ian of House McCollum, first of his name, King of the Lebels, the Chauchats, and the FAMAS, Lord of the Seven Bergmanns and Collecter of the Helms.
I am a Dane - one comment about the Madsen, and why the Danes refused to sell them in larger numbers to (specifically) Germany. Denmark and Germany (or rather preussia/austria) were at war in 1864. Denmark lost the war - and a lot of territory. There were even speculations if Denmark could survive as a sovereign nation being that small (one of the reasons weapons development was a high priority in DK in the first place) ......BUT, In order to survive as a nation it was necessary to tread lightly on the international scene and remain neutral - and rule number one when your neighboring countries are slugging it out on the battlefield.. if you want to remain neutral DONT sell guns to nations at war - especially if its only to one side - and the side you absolutely dont like (anti german sentiment was strong in those years). Denmark did not want to lose favor with the Allied powers. They were the ones who mediated in the 1864 conflict and (this is speculation) Denmark knew if Germany lost they would have a better chance to get to lost territory back. And in fact - thats exactly what happened. The Danish/German border today is exactly where the British suggested it should be back in 1864. I know this is just a comma in the world history - but to the Danes its pretty important. Hope I didnt bore you... :o)
Perhaps the lessons from 1801 and 1807. Greedy Danish traders had broken the blockade of France / the european continent one time too many. The english fleet payed Copenhagen a visit in 1801, that we were able to fend of by breaking a alliance with Russia. Then they came again in 1807, surrounded Copenhagen, bombarded the city for three days, ruined 2500 houses and killed 250 people. Perhaps historys first terror bombardment of civilians. When we surrendered they stole our fleet and burned anything we had to build a new one. Denmark were able to stay out of WW1, but it were a close call - one of the very few successes of Danish foraign politics.
Oh man, I am NOT making that decision. They are both so wonderful in very different ways. Ian does have flowing long silky hair though, but that is cheating!
You can’t compare two entirely different style of beards. Ian’s civil war officer style facial fuzz and Othias’ frontiersman face pelt are two separate categories of chin hair and deserve to be judged on their own accord.
Gew 71 ammo: My great grandfather served in a rear echelon unit and was issued a gewehr 71 at some point. He notes in his diary that they were issued cartridges with lead flatnose bullets; this caused some controversy with the troops as they feared execution if the french caught them carrying these "inhumane" bullets. The flatnose ammo was intended for the tube-magazine 71/84 and would fit the chamber of a 71 but had the wrong ballistics for the sights. I've read somewhere that the entire stockpile of actual gew 71 ammo had been sent to the colonies in Africa, so when they needed ammo for gew 71s at home they had to issue flatnose 71/84 cartridges. My ancestors wwi diary seems to confirm this.
I wonder why the execution though, a bullet hole is a bullet hole and I'm sure the time to die from either a hollow point, flat nosed, Spitzer, or soft tipped is pretty much the same, and explosive ammo being pretty quick. I can understand gas attacks and flame throwers being an exicutional offence. It's odd how shrapnel artillery being widely accepted but the Germans saying it's a no-no for shotguns.
@@elijahaitaok8624 You have to remember, both sides are using extensive propaganda efforts to paint the other side as "inhuman". The British in particular were extremely bad about this. The "Rape of Belgium" probably did occur, but only in isolated instances that were likely dealt with internally by the disciplining organs of the German army. If you'd believe what the British propaganda of the time said though, the Germans were slaughtering the Belgians in the streets, raping whole towns of women, and half the population was dead. That's not the case, but that's what is remembered and often recorded by historians. One could ask where was the outrage when the British or Belgians ACTUALLY did those things in the colonies without even the excuse of a war being on if we were to judge things evenly. The British for example overthrew the government of Greece solely to force Greece into the war, but we never hear about that do we?
@@elijahaitaok8624 it was probably not a realistic fear, but rumors spread like wildfire and some people thought these obsolete lead bullets would be considered a form of "dum-dum"
wow, as if being issued a +40yr outdated rifle wouldn't be demoralizing enough, but to be issued ammo that both you knew you couldn't hit anything w/ and may very likely get you executed simply for carrying. really interesting story you have here, I absolutely love all the little anecdotes like this that show up in the comment section of Forgotten Weapons video
@@Gustav_Kuriga then there is the whole 200,000 Belgians forced to work in the German Arms industry and other areas. Some may call that slavery or forced labour but I gather you wouldn't be one
I love Othias, Mae, and the C&Rseneal channel, but I 100% prefer Othias speaking in q&a form than his prepared speeches. He has such a deep knowledge and it lends himself so well to conversation and discussion with a partner so well. My favorite parts of C&Rsenal videos is at the end when he's talking practical fielding and stuff with Mae. I hope we see more casual-ish conversational videos from Othias in the future. Obviously the best would be him and Ian or him and Eric/Chad doing discussion videos all the time.
One interesting conversion of Maxim 08 and 08/15 guns can be found in Australia. There were thousands of these guns dragged back post WW1 as "trophies". Many "intact' guns ended up hanging above the "Honour Rolls" in Ex-services clubs. See also the German 77mm field pieces that can still be seen rotting away out front of many halls and memorials, Come the Second Great Unpleasantness, there was a dire need for MGs for training, as Lithgow was desperately trying to turn out No1 rifles, Brens and Vickers guns. Some clever chaps recognized the basic similarity (lock inversion excepted) between a Maxim and a Vickers and experimented with a conversion of trophy Maxims to .303. They worked around the differences and eventually came up with a conversion "package" and then the recall of wall-hanger Maxims for "rebirthing" commenced. By all accounts, they worked and provided basic training guns as well as firepower for the Volunteer Defence Corps, a sort of Australian "Dad's Army" . The story of the VDC "home production" of perfectly-functional 3" mortars AND ammo is a good story as well. Post WW2, most of the .303 Maxims were "put in storage" and discretely destroyed. Few, if any made it back to once again guard the Honour Rolls, recently updated to include the latest toll.
They did this in New Zealand as well. Is a few MG08’s still around converted to 303 in private collections since the Service clubs had to get rid of them in the 80’s, so they mostly ended up in private hands.
I checked out C&Rsenal about a month after I started watching Forgotten Weapons, and it was way too detailed & technical, and half of what Othais said went way over my head. maybe now, with more background in the subject matter, I should go back and give them another shot.
Try breaking the videos into chunks and rewatching if you need to, but there's no shame in saying you don't care for it, even if you bring shame on your entire family for thinking so
Like you, the videos went over my head when I first started watching. I kept watching, did my own research and now I feel much more knowledgeable. The videos are always enjoyable too (and each one has a bit of Mae smiling during the shooting segment - hehehe).
Same. Then after a year of watching Ian, I actually understand fucking everything he's talking about. I shudder to imagine the sheer amount of antiquated firearms information I've learned from both channels...
59:40 - Once saw a documentary about the WWII Eastern Front where one of the interviewed German veterans talked about the large number of "Kalashnikovs" used by the Soviets and how much they liked to pick them up. He was clearly talking about the PPSH-41.
Yeees, I learned of C&Rsenal through you channel this summer Ian, and Ive spent many hrs watching pretty much all their content. Fun to see you collaborating, both your channels kept my mind occupied through a rough summer of my Crohns crashing...
If you haven't already, check out the Great War channel as well to get a larger context for some of the weapons. All three channels have done collabs with each other.
Man, Mae looks good with that mustache 😀. Something I would add to the colonial answer... The British would purposely keep colonies and Commonwealth nations one to two generations behind on service rifles. Now whether that was just because of a hand-me-down policy or that they didn't want them to have the latest and greatest in the event of an uprising, I don't know.
Prior to WW1, none of the Dominions or colonies had any particular need for modern service rifles - most territories didn't even have any armed force beyond a police force. Despite the myth, the Empire wasn't a particularly warlike or unstable entity, so even Britain itself didn't maintain significant weapons stocks. Of the Dominions, Canada wasn't under any particular threat, nor Australia, India or South Africa. After the Boer War, most of the participating territories went home with British Long Lees, which was a modern rifle. India, the only country with a substantial standing army, had an arsenal system since the 18th century, but received its rifles from Britain. Following the introduction of the No1 Mk1, India and Australia set up rifle factories. By the end of WW1, the whole Empire had No1 rifles from one factory or another anyway.
Love that remark RE the makeup store, suspect there's more than a few blokes that went "huh" then. It's something that nerds of any flavour tend to forget, there's a been a few rail fans that were disappointed and surprised that most railway workers don't give a damn about trains off the clock.
I had to look this up and i cant find a story to go with the photo but the pic itself doesnt tell anything as to whats goin on. My guess is the marine probably found the thing or took it off a dead insurgent. Hes not holding it as you would if you were clearing a building with it or anything. www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=zvyqQCNt&id=546CBD3BFE6DDAF01A88ED0815A149821D865A84&thid=OIP.zvyqQCNtL80FJC8QkoGFkgHaGc&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F84zkwuzv8oj11.jpg&exph=696&expw=800&q=us+marine+with+ppsh&simid=608040684168676813&selectedindex=0&ajaxhist=0&vt=4&eim=1,2,3,4,6,8,10&sim=11
Having shot several of the WW1 rifles you have talked about my personal favorite cartridge was the 7X57 Mauser. It was much more pleasant to shoot that a similar gun in 8X57, 30.06, .303 or Russian 7.62X54 and on the plus side it was a very flat shooting cartridge out to 300 yards. Having only shot some of the late war Japanese 6.5 Arisaka rifles that were a little crude I never put too much practice in on them and never even bought one back in the day when you could pick one up for $25.00 at gun shows in the 1970's.
I inherited my great grandfather's Mauser which he re-barreled for 7mm. Unfortunately the history of it is shrouded due to the new-ish barrel and hand made (by great grandpa himself) sporter stock, but it's an absolute treat to shoot and very very accurate.
58:48 Fun fact, there were instances where a solider being discharged could by their service weapon as surplus for a time. My grandfather, who was a marine, purchased his personal issued M1 Garand from his CO when he was discharged in 61. (He paid $80 for it)
@@michaelfurgessons2896 It was a complete and utter lack of communication on Indy's and Spartacus's part unfortunately and as the date of the project drew closer and closer Ian and Karl (InrangeTv) tried to contact the WWII team many times but didn't hear anything back for whatever reason and sadly the project just kind of fell apart from there. There is very little detailed information on what happened though but that's just what I've heard from Ian and Karl and I think Othias on one occasion, that that's what went down. Which is really unfortunate because it would've been a really amazing project. And actually Flo from the original Great War channel that indy was in before he left and made the WWII channel basically did what indy wanted to do and did a massive military history collaboration with a bunch of other youtube channels (including Forgotten Weapons and many others) and created the 16 Days In Berlin project and that went really well apparently. Although I haven't seen it yet because you can only see it if you buy it from Real Time History's (formerly The Great War) website. Anyway I hope this helped clear up what happened between all those channels for any who's interested.
Well, I hope so, Blackadder. You know, if there's one thing I've learnt from being in the Army, it's never ignore a pooh-pooh. I knew a Major, who got pooh-poohed, made the mistake of ignoring the pooh-pooh. He pooh-poohed it! Fatal error! 'Cos it turned out all along that the soldier who pooh-poohed him had been pooh-poohing a lot of other officers who pooh-poohed their pooh-poohs. In the end, we had to disband the regiment. Morale totally destroyed... by pooh-pooh!
Breakfast with Ian and Othias. Great way to start a day. Thanks guys, we need more crossover vids like this. The work you've done with Eric and Chad from IV8888 has been cool, now I'd like to see maybe Tim from MAC and .22 plinkster. When you crossover like this it sets a great example for all of us in the 2A community.
So keen ! excellent, such brillent minds working together can only lead to amazing things, so exciting never stop. This stuff will end up being a reference guide for people going forward the depth and accessibility is unmatched,. Thank you - Tom, Melbourne, Australia
The humour, t-shirts (you are legends, inc' Alex), the back-'n-forth of banter and knowelage, plus the near 'pokey'-sabre fight at the start, bloody funny as all hell while extremely informative too.
A lot of the Austrian M95 (as well as Schwarzlose machine guns and a lot of other weapons) were given to Italy as war reparations, Italy used them mainly to arm native colonial troops in Ethiopia, Somalia and Eritrea.
This is a very important video for me in a very stupid way: This video finally ties together nearly all of my favorite content creators on the internet, -Ian, through a collaboration he did with Totalbiscuit (RIP) some years ago tied him to the gaming community and thus through many links to all of the gaming stuff I enjoy -Othias, through his work with Indy and The Great War (plus through Indy the Bovington Tank Museum) is tied to most of the history/military stuff I watch. This makes me unreasonable happy!
Huge fan of this! Would love to see more of this kind of collaborative content with C&Rsenals and Forgotten Weapons! Love both your channels, keep up the great work! Also those shirts... would buy both in a heartbeat if made available!
Bayonets were still vital in 1918 for Australian, Canadian and New Zealand troops. Not to kill Germans but take prisoners. In the August 8 offensive, 50 000 Germans were captured in 4 days. They had a major psychological effect. They were fast, reliable, deadly, and scary. It is much easier to take prisoners rather than kill them. Especially if the enemy know they will be treated well. The Commonwealth armies were using complex combined arms tactics. The Lewis gun also played a vital role. Most sections had at least one. The rule of 303. The Australian, British and US attack on Hamel, 4th July, clearly demonstrated a combined arms battle. Planned for 90 minutes under General Monash, a reservist, engineer, colonial, of Jewish and German origin. It took 93 minutes to take all of the objectives. 1500 Germans were captured. Reports on the battle were distributed to allied officers. And implemented in August. The start of 100 days of victories.
The First World War is covered in modern day high school in a couple hours at best.... the war that changed the face of the planet... so many died.... much respect for those who keep their honor alive
In most UK schools, several weeks are spent covering the First World War in some detail, from the political shenanigans that led up to it's breaking out, to the aftermath and the injustice that was the Versailles Treaty. The Soviet revolution is also covered, as are important events between the wars (Wall St crash/ New Deal and the rise of fascism in Europe etc.). There is an emphasis on 20th century history in general, which gives people a decent insight into how the world they now live in came to be, something far more useful to be aware of than five hundred year old squabbles over royal succession in my opinion.
If you're dishing of US schools is because the First World War is only important because it leads to the Roaring Twenties and is basically was step one to the Second World War which was a much bigger deal to the United States.
This was the same when I was in high school in the early 00's as well. But then again, they never even mentioned the great migration period, despite it being crucial to the understanding of the *entirety of ensuing European history* >__> 'Oh Rome went away I guess...? then the crusades happened i dunno.'
@@robashton8606 that's why I said if. Because your concern is one I have. The Great War changed the world completely. It destroyed empires that had been around for centuries and it's little more than a a single day discussion. And sadly it's because they're want a really big American moment in the war. We didn't have a Gallipoli or Verdun so it's just not part of our cultural zeitgeist. It's just the war Over There.
I would totally buy that shirt. Brovo, well done... hi guys... just how ian begins and the carapicure is priceless. The image capures the iconic IAN... lol.
For what it's worth Denmark would have made a boatload of money if the Madsen had gotten sold and not just through tariffs. The Madsen company used the Army Central Workshops to produce a significant fraction of the guns made.
Yeah I didn't know crap about firearms when I was in the army, I was even stuck working as an armorer for a year and really didn't know much outside of what part goes where. When I retired and picked it up as s hobby I actually learned
You two gentleman are basically like the Wayne and Garth of gun channels on TH-cam, and that's something I never realized I would appreciate so much but I sure do lol
In Julian Byng's bio they talk about Canadian troops cutting down Enfields so they'd launch a grenade further. They got the idea when they realized the German rifles had a longer grenade range and had shorter barrels. I loved the we he described it as "we proceed to destroy his majesty's property".
Little history: I came to this channel because of the promo of The Great War (which I followed) and Ian's shows. And C&Rsenal is the one that I literally time my calendar for.
Thankz guys for a great collab. One feature of the 10 rd mag with 5 rd stripper clips on the SMLE that doesn't get mentioned much, seems to be the ability to perform tactical reloads which wouldn't be possible on a 5&5 setup. The Bloke brought this up recently and Rowan took good advantage of it in a 2GACM. I see this as a significant advantage over having to wait until your mag is empty in order to reload. Much in the way the King's loading gate is over the Henry's reloading procedure and am left wondering if this was a thing back in the day or just another twist of hindsight looking at the possibilities from our modern point of view. Thanks
48:40 another reason I’ve heard Ian mention before was the reason the US didn’t adopt .271(?) for the garand or Peterson rifles was because they had so much .30-06 in stockpiles
Edward Olson; The round you are referring to was the .276 Pedersen (or .27 caliber). One reason it was not adopted was it used lubricated rounds, which were not allowed in the desing competition. Also General Mac Arthur was agintest it because of the 30/06 stockpile. Another interesting fact was the early Garand had in mind a detachable box mag, and select fire operation. But the Ordinance dept nixed those features saying that a box magazine would get lost in the field, and that full auto would waste ammo. Basically the same argument they have used since the Civil War to derail any weapons research, "IT COSTS TOO DAMN MUCH" . And yet some 20 years later they came out with the M-14 which is a heavily modified M-1!
Ian, regarding the adoption of semi-autos in WW1 I wonder if we could apply a similar scenario to InRange's Levergun Whatif? Yes the available semi-auto rifles and carbines had issues with complexity, maintenance, parts/ammo supply and range/power compared with full-power bolt-actions. However the exact same could be said about the US Army adopting lever-actions in the mid 1800s. You and Karl explored the idea of NCOs and other specialised troops getting Winchesters in .44-40 to provide short-range rapid firepower to compliment the privates' .45-70 trapdoor Springfields, which were slow firing but had superior range and power. I would love you to explore the idea of specialist front-line WW1 troops adopting self-loading carbines in parallel with the regular troops keeping their Enfields, Mausers, Arisakas etc. These troops could be better trained than the average conscript, both in terms of maintenance and how to best exploit their weapons' advantages. As well as being issued to NCOs for providing protection against short-range zerg rushes, German stormtrooper techniques would be particularly suited to the use of these rifles I think. The Winchester 1907 in .351, with 10-round mags, would be a good benchmark, as it was available in quantity during the period and was chambered in an intermediate cartridge. This would split the difference between a full-sized rifle and something in a pistol calibre.
C&Rsenal welcomes Ian of House McCollum, first of his name, King of the Lebels, the Chauchats, and the FAMAS, Lord of the Seven Bergmanns and Collecter of the Helms.
I may steal this for the author bio section of my book. :)
Please do!
Ya this needs to be in the book
“Lord of the seven bergmans,” hilarious
You forgot Lord Grandmaster of the Ouiaboos.
That "Hi Guys" shirt needs to be official merch!
I want both
Yeah, I'm definitely gonna need one of each
...as is "Patented Plastic Pokey". Count me in for both!
(Angry Karl noises in the distance)
It has to be different from the original. There can only be one ea.
You enter the room, the video takes an hour. Guaranteed.
It's a must
C&Rsenal you say that as if it’s a bad thing lol
Totally bingeable content, I look forward to every episode.
OMG! I want those T-shirts! I have all of the C&Rsenal and several FW shirts and i need those.
I look forward to the next hour and a half video on the Montenegrin and Greek use of these questions
I am a Dane - one comment about the Madsen, and why the Danes refused to sell them in larger numbers to (specifically) Germany. Denmark and Germany (or rather preussia/austria) were at war in 1864. Denmark lost the war - and a lot of territory. There were even speculations if Denmark could survive as a sovereign nation being that small (one of the reasons weapons development was a high priority in DK in the first place) ......BUT, In order to survive as a nation it was necessary to tread lightly on the international scene and remain neutral - and rule number one when your neighboring countries are slugging it out on the battlefield.. if you want to remain neutral DONT sell guns to nations at war - especially if its only to one side - and the side you absolutely dont like (anti german sentiment was strong in those years). Denmark did not want to lose favor with the Allied powers. They were the ones who mediated in the 1864 conflict and (this is speculation) Denmark knew if Germany lost they would have a better chance to get to lost territory back. And in fact - thats exactly what happened. The Danish/German border today is exactly where the British suggested it should be back in 1864.
I know this is just a comma in the world history - but to the Danes its pretty important. Hope I didnt bore you... :o)
Fair enough, really. Denmark acted in the national interest - don't get into an enormous war right on your border if you can help it.
Thanks for this! Danish history is always interesting to me, my dad's side of the family is Danish. :)
Good old British! 😀
Thank you for your comments !
Perhaps the lessons from 1801 and 1807. Greedy Danish traders had broken the blockade of France / the european continent one time too many. The english fleet payed Copenhagen a visit in 1801, that we were able to fend of by breaking a alliance with Russia. Then they came again in 1807, surrounded Copenhagen, bombarded the city for three days, ruined 2500 houses and killed 250 people. Perhaps historys first terror bombardment of civilians. When we surrendered they stole our fleet and burned anything we had to build a new one. Denmark were able to stay out of WW1, but it were a close call - one of the very few successes of Danish foraign politics.
Oh my a video with gun jesus and gun buddha.
I T S H A B B E N I N G ! !
The Forgotten Weapons/C&Arsenal crossover, Ian's G11 review, GarandThumb did the Hipoint review.....is the world about the end or something?
@@sean7456 and Hickok45, the Gun Moses
Coexist!
@@iloveindomienoodle and GarandThumb, the Gun Sexy
Who wore the better beard?
Oh man, everyone is here!
James Jaegar XD
Oh man, I am NOT making that decision. They are both so wonderful in very different ways. Ian does have flowing long silky hair though, but that is cheating!
John Moses Browning.
You can’t compare two entirely different style of beards. Ian’s civil war officer style facial fuzz and Othias’ frontiersman face pelt are two separate categories of chin hair and deserve to be judged on their own accord.
Gew 71 ammo:
My great grandfather served in a rear echelon unit and was issued a gewehr 71 at some point. He notes in his diary that they were issued cartridges with lead flatnose bullets; this caused some controversy with the troops as they feared execution if the french caught them carrying these "inhumane" bullets.
The flatnose ammo was intended for the tube-magazine 71/84 and would fit the chamber of a 71 but had the wrong ballistics for the sights. I've read somewhere that the entire stockpile of actual gew 71 ammo had been sent to the colonies in Africa, so when they needed ammo for gew 71s at home they had to issue flatnose 71/84 cartridges. My ancestors wwi diary seems to confirm this.
I wonder why the execution though, a bullet hole is a bullet hole and I'm sure the time to die from either a hollow point, flat nosed, Spitzer, or soft tipped is pretty much the same, and explosive ammo being pretty quick. I can understand gas attacks and flame throwers being an exicutional offence. It's odd how shrapnel artillery being widely accepted but the Germans saying it's a no-no for shotguns.
@@elijahaitaok8624 You have to remember, both sides are using extensive propaganda efforts to paint the other side as "inhuman". The British in particular were extremely bad about this. The "Rape of Belgium" probably did occur, but only in isolated instances that were likely dealt with internally by the disciplining organs of the German army. If you'd believe what the British propaganda of the time said though, the Germans were slaughtering the Belgians in the streets, raping whole towns of women, and half the population was dead. That's not the case, but that's what is remembered and often recorded by historians. One could ask where was the outrage when the British or Belgians ACTUALLY did those things in the colonies without even the excuse of a war being on if we were to judge things evenly.
The British for example overthrew the government of Greece solely to force Greece into the war, but we never hear about that do we?
@@elijahaitaok8624 it was probably not a realistic fear, but rumors spread like wildfire and some people thought these obsolete lead bullets would be considered a form of "dum-dum"
wow, as if being issued a +40yr outdated rifle wouldn't be demoralizing enough, but to be issued ammo that both you knew you couldn't hit anything w/ and may very likely get you executed simply for carrying. really interesting story you have here, I absolutely love all the little anecdotes like this that show up in the comment section of Forgotten Weapons video
@@Gustav_Kuriga then there is the whole 200,000 Belgians forced to work in the German Arms industry and other areas. Some may call that slavery or forced labour but I gather you wouldn't be one
I love Othias, Mae, and the C&Rseneal channel, but I 100% prefer Othias speaking in q&a form than his prepared speeches. He has such a deep knowledge and it lends himself so well to conversation and discussion with a partner so well. My favorite parts of C&Rsenal videos is at the end when he's talking practical fielding and stuff with Mae.
I hope we see more casual-ish conversational videos from Othias in the future. Obviously the best would be him and Ian or him and Eric/Chad doing discussion videos all the time.
let's get this out onto a tray...nice!
That'd be an interesting collaboration.
Someday Ian and Karl will do a collab with Steve over on Inrange.
Just got to fly him in from Flordia to eat some rancid MRE's... Nice!
If we could get Steve the ration Jesus and Steve Tech Jesus together with Ian Gun Jesus and Othais Gun Moses, life would be complete.
Check out the accessory pack in the background!!!
@@planescaped Steve will provide the big guns for that episode.
I don't think I have ever clicked a video so fast.
Neither have I
Never heard of that one before
Same
One interesting conversion of Maxim 08 and 08/15 guns can be found in Australia.
There were thousands of these guns dragged back post WW1 as "trophies".
Many "intact' guns ended up hanging above the "Honour Rolls" in Ex-services clubs. See also the German 77mm field pieces that can still be seen rotting away out front of many halls and memorials,
Come the Second Great Unpleasantness, there was a dire need for MGs for training, as Lithgow was desperately trying to turn out No1 rifles, Brens and Vickers guns.
Some clever chaps recognized the basic similarity (lock inversion excepted) between a Maxim and a Vickers and experimented with a conversion of trophy Maxims to .303.
They worked around the differences and eventually came up with a conversion "package" and then the recall of wall-hanger Maxims for "rebirthing" commenced.
By all accounts, they worked and provided basic training guns as well as firepower for the Volunteer Defence Corps, a sort of Australian "Dad's Army" . The story of the VDC "home production" of perfectly-functional 3" mortars AND ammo is a good story as well.
Post WW2, most of the .303 Maxims were "put in storage" and discretely destroyed. Few, if any made it back to once again guard the Honour Rolls, recently updated to include the latest toll.
it is pretty anazing for weaponry,
They did this in New Zealand as well. Is a few MG08’s still around converted to 303 in private collections since the Service clubs had to get rid of them in the 80’s, so they mostly ended up in private hands.
I will buy that plastic pokey t-shirt right now. Whoever made it, send that shit to Othais. That would be amazing.
Please make both of these!! I need new merch!!!!
Nerd
I checked out C&Rsenal about a month after I started watching Forgotten Weapons, and it was way too detailed & technical, and half of what Othais said went way over my head. maybe now, with more background in the subject matter, I should go back and give them another shot.
Definitely do that.
Yeah or watch them in shifts. Long videos and some weapons certainly are more interesting than others, but great content.
Try breaking the videos into chunks and rewatching if you need to, but there's no shame in saying you don't care for it, even if you bring shame on your entire family for thinking so
Like you, the videos went over my head when I first started watching. I kept watching, did my own research and now I feel much more knowledgeable. The videos are always enjoyable too (and each one has a bit of Mae smiling during the shooting segment - hehehe).
Same. Then after a year of watching Ian, I actually understand fucking everything he's talking about. I shudder to imagine the sheer amount of antiquated firearms information I've learned from both channels...
Two gun expert powerhouses in the same house at the same time?? Christmas and birthday came early this time!! This is awesome.
Don’t mind me while I hit the like before the video even starts..
Fastest click in the west
Oh look, two of my favorite gun experts in one location. How convenient, informative, and delightful.
59:40 - Once saw a documentary about the WWII Eastern Front where one of the interviewed German veterans talked about the large number of "Kalashnikovs" used by the Soviets and how much they liked to pick them up. He was clearly talking about the PPSH-41.
Yeees, I learned of C&Rsenal through you channel this summer Ian, and Ive spent many hrs watching pretty much all their content. Fun to see you collaborating, both your channels kept my mind occupied through a rough summer of my Crohns crashing...
Glad we could help
@@Candrsenal keep up your good work
That sucks man
If you haven't already, check out the Great War channel as well to get a larger context for some of the weapons. All three channels have done collabs with each other.
Man, Mae looks good with that mustache 😀. Something I would add to the colonial answer... The British would purposely keep colonies and Commonwealth nations one to two generations behind on service rifles. Now whether that was just because of a hand-me-down policy or that they didn't want them to have the latest and greatest in the event of an uprising, I don't know.
Milsurp Mike Channel short answer both long answer both .
Prior to WW1, none of the Dominions or colonies had any particular need for modern service rifles - most territories didn't even have any armed force beyond a police force. Despite the myth, the Empire wasn't a particularly warlike or unstable entity, so even Britain itself didn't maintain significant weapons stocks. Of the Dominions, Canada wasn't under any particular threat, nor Australia, India or South Africa. After the Boer War, most of the participating territories went home with British Long Lees, which was a modern rifle. India, the only country with a substantial standing army, had an arsenal system since the 18th century, but received its rifles from Britain. Following the introduction of the No1 Mk1, India and Australia set up rifle factories. By the end of WW1, the whole Empire had No1 rifles from one factory or another anyway.
Patented Plastic Pokey shirt has gotta go on sale, I need one
The shirts - amazing. The discussion - fantastic. The collaboration - EPIC!!!!
"I really need to finish all the work I have piled up"
(sees this video)
"I mean... I can find another job later..."
I really hope this boosts the subscriber count for C&Rsenal. They deserve it big time!
Love that remark RE the makeup store, suspect there's more than a few blokes that went "huh" then. It's something that nerds of any flavour tend to forget, there's a been a few rail fans that were disappointed and surprised that most railway workers don't give a damn about trains off the clock.
I can guarantee you, if that Marine was seen carrying that PPSH by a superior, he got an earful, at least.
I had to look this up and i cant find a story to go with the photo but the pic itself doesnt tell anything as to whats goin on. My guess is the marine probably found the thing or took it off a dead insurgent. Hes not holding it as you would if you were clearing a building with it or anything. www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=zvyqQCNt&id=546CBD3BFE6DDAF01A88ED0815A149821D865A84&thid=OIP.zvyqQCNtL80FJC8QkoGFkgHaGc&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F84zkwuzv8oj11.jpg&exph=696&expw=800&q=us+marine+with+ppsh&simid=608040684168676813&selectedindex=0&ajaxhist=0&vt=4&eim=1,2,3,4,6,8,10&sim=11
Having shot several of the WW1 rifles you have talked about my personal favorite cartridge was the 7X57 Mauser. It was much more pleasant to shoot that a similar gun in 8X57, 30.06, .303 or Russian 7.62X54 and on the plus side it was a very flat shooting cartridge out to 300 yards. Having only shot some of the late war Japanese 6.5 Arisaka rifles that were a little crude I never put too much practice in on them and never even bought one back in the day when you could pick one up for $25.00 at gun shows in the 1970's.
I inherited my great grandfather's Mauser which he re-barreled for 7mm. Unfortunately the history of it is shrouded due to the new-ish barrel and hand made (by great grandpa himself) sporter stock, but it's an absolute treat to shoot and very very accurate.
I’m going back to sleep after this video, solely for the reason there is no way the day will get better than this.
58:48 Fun fact, there were instances where a solider being discharged could by their service weapon as surplus for a time. My grandfather, who was a marine, purchased his personal issued M1 Garand from his CO when he was discharged in 61. (He paid $80 for it)
This is the gun equivalent of having Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin on stage! ❤
I'm thinking more Waylon and Willie
Two of my favorite channels.
Shout out to Andrew at Archival Research Group! He helped me document my 1903 Springfield to the 26th Infantry Regiment! They do great work!
AWESOME!!!!! The Two men who's firearm opinion I respect. It doesn't get better.
All we nned would be Indy Neidel, who introduced me to this subject
Wont happen, not gonna go into he said, she said, but the 2 tried to do a special with WWII weapons, but a few bridges were burnt instead.
@@kyleschafer6275
Could you elaborate more?
From what i know simply the scheduling didn't work out.
@@michaelfurgessons2896 It was a complete and utter lack of communication on Indy's and Spartacus's part unfortunately and as the date of the project drew closer and closer Ian and Karl (InrangeTv) tried to contact the WWII team many times but didn't hear anything back for whatever reason and sadly the project just kind of fell apart from there. There is very little detailed information on what happened though but that's just what I've heard from Ian and Karl and I think Othias on one occasion, that that's what went down. Which is really unfortunate because it would've been a really amazing project.
And actually Flo from the original Great War channel that indy was in before he left and made the WWII channel basically did what indy wanted to do and did a massive military history collaboration with a bunch of other youtube channels (including Forgotten Weapons and many others) and created the 16 Days In Berlin project and that went really well apparently. Although I haven't seen it yet because you can only see it if you buy it from Real Time History's (formerly The Great War) website.
Anyway I hope this helped clear up what happened between all those channels for any who's interested.
Well, I hope so, Blackadder. You know, if there's one thing I've learnt from being in the Army, it's never ignore a pooh-pooh. I knew a Major, who got pooh-poohed, made the mistake of ignoring the pooh-pooh. He pooh-poohed it! Fatal error! 'Cos it turned out all along that the soldier who pooh-poohed him had been pooh-poohing a lot of other officers who pooh-poohed their pooh-poohs. In the end, we had to disband the regiment. Morale totally destroyed... by pooh-pooh!
I read this aloud in a General Melchit voice.
Just send in Lord Flashhart and wait for the victory report.
@@andreasbachlindsmann1610 Flanders, Flanders dear.
Mmmmmyes Darling!
@@wierdalien1 Pretty sure Fry was up to his eyeballs in Colombian marching powder for that scene, he didn't pronounce it as well as he could have :)
"There's other people out there with 70's mustaches..."
"No, no there aren't."
more like 1870s
Tom Selleck
Ian's facial hair always reminds me of a civil war soldier.
William Frederick Cody, the one and only.
@@planescaped I think that might be what he is going for being that he is a history buff.
7:57 "We've seen countries that were invaded because the other side might invade them"
Countries such as Denmark...
Breakfast with Ian and Othias. Great way to start a day. Thanks guys, we need more crossover vids like this. The work you've done with Eric and Chad from IV8888 has been cool, now I'd like to see maybe Tim from MAC and .22 plinkster. When you crossover like this it sets a great example for all of us in the 2A community.
Thank you gentlemen, very very pleasant to view and hear.
I could continue listening for hours on end. Love seeing two great minds working together.
The Great Conjunction, as foretold in the Prophecy! The two greatest historical gun channels collaborating!
When I first glanced at the thumbnail, I thought it said "Oathis", and I immediately pictured Mike Tyson talking about the band Oasis.
Thanx to both of you. I like when two fun people have fun conversing about fun stuff.
So keen ! excellent, such brillent minds working together can only lead to amazing things, so exciting never stop.
This stuff will end up being a reference guide for people going forward the depth and accessibility is unmatched,.
Thank you - Tom, Melbourne, Australia
You two guys together. Awesome. Two of my favorite channels. Period.
Now we are all locked in, videos like this are pure gold. Thanks guys
My greatest regret is that I have but one like to give this video.
The humour, t-shirts (you are legends, inc' Alex), the back-'n-forth of banter and knowelage, plus the near 'pokey'-sabre fight at the start, bloody funny as all hell while extremely informative too.
C&Rsenal; Ian; Taofledermaus; and Paul Harrell are my go to channels for firearms and historical education.
you forgot IV 888
This is a glorious thing to wake up to. Damn shame i cant like it once for each channel.
A lot of the Austrian M95 (as well as Schwarzlose machine guns and a lot of other weapons) were given to Italy as war reparations, Italy used them mainly to arm native colonial troops in Ethiopia, Somalia and Eritrea.
Awsome video guys. You two together is truly great to watch.
A very good presentation. It is good to see two enthusiasts interacting so effectively.
It's great to finally have you guys together. I'm looking forward to the forthcoming videos!
Awesome video!
Also thanks for answering my question, sounds very reasonable and accurate.
You're both doing quite a service to the community.
Great video guys. Look forward to seeing more collaboration stuff in the future.
Time to boot up Euro Truck Sim 2 and listen to this.
Farming sim is my drone-out game. :~}
Greetings from Portugal...mentioned an unexpected number of times in this video
Obrigado
All the best to everyone
This is the most awesome collaboration ever! More of this, please!
This is a very important video for me in a very stupid way:
This video finally ties together nearly all of my favorite content creators on the internet,
-Ian, through a collaboration he did with Totalbiscuit (RIP) some years ago tied him to the gaming community and thus through many links to all of the gaming stuff I enjoy
-Othias, through his work with Indy and The Great War (plus through Indy the Bovington Tank Museum) is tied to most of the history/military stuff I watch.
This makes me unreasonable happy!
My two favorite youtube channels. You guys rock!
Huge fan of this! Would love to see more of this kind of collaborative content with C&Rsenals and Forgotten Weapons! Love both your channels, keep up the great work! Also those shirts... would buy both in a heartbeat if made available!
Very nice Guys , great work !!!!!! cheers from Germany
Bloody great collaboration with two awesome personalities on two incredible gun channels. Good Q&A.
Excellent from both of you. Thanks.
Awesome guys, love both channels
Bayonets were still vital in 1918 for Australian, Canadian and New Zealand troops. Not to kill Germans but take prisoners. In the August 8 offensive, 50 000 Germans were captured in 4 days. They had a major psychological effect. They were fast, reliable, deadly, and scary. It is much easier to take prisoners rather than kill them. Especially if the enemy know they will be treated well. The Commonwealth armies were using complex combined arms tactics. The Lewis gun also played a vital role. Most sections had at least one. The rule of 303. The Australian, British and US attack on Hamel, 4th July, clearly demonstrated a combined arms battle. Planned for 90 minutes under General Monash, a reservist, engineer, colonial, of Jewish and German origin. It took 93 minutes to take all of the objectives. 1500 Germans were captured. Reports on the battle were distributed to allied officers. And implemented in August. The start of 100 days of victories.
The First World War is covered in modern day high school in a couple hours at best.... the war that changed the face of the planet... so many died.... much respect for those who keep their honor alive
In most UK schools, several weeks are spent covering the First World War in some detail, from the political shenanigans that led up to it's breaking out, to the aftermath and the injustice that was the Versailles Treaty. The Soviet revolution is also covered, as are important events between the wars (Wall St crash/ New Deal and the rise of fascism in Europe etc.). There is an emphasis on 20th century history in general, which gives people a decent insight into how the world they now live in came to be, something far more useful to be aware of than five hundred year old squabbles over royal succession in my opinion.
If you're dishing of US schools is because the First World War is only important because it leads to the Roaring Twenties and is basically was step one to the Second World War which was a much bigger deal to the United States.
@@travishenty1113
I wasn't remarking on US schools at all.
This was the same when I was in high school in the early 00's as well.
But then again, they never even mentioned the great migration period, despite it being crucial to the understanding of the *entirety of ensuing European history*
>__> 'Oh Rome went away I guess...? then the crusades happened i dunno.'
@@robashton8606 that's why I said if. Because your concern is one I have. The Great War changed the world completely. It destroyed empires that had been around for centuries and it's little more than a a single day discussion. And sadly it's because they're want a really big American moment in the war. We didn't have a Gallipoli or Verdun so it's just not part of our cultural zeitgeist. It's just the war Over There.
I would totally buy that shirt. Brovo, well done... hi guys... just how ian begins and the carapicure is priceless. The image capures the iconic IAN... lol.
I'm 45-seconds into this video and I already love it.
Project Lightening was an AWESOME collaboration between these two channels👍🏻
This collaboration is the coolest thing! I'm stoked!!!
Man I love both channels. No psycho political bs, no drama, no insecure macho baloney. Just pure awesome. Yay, Team Sanity! You guys rule.
Get Ian in the light box.
For what it's worth Denmark would have made a boatload of money if the Madsen had gotten sold and not just through tariffs. The Madsen company used the Army Central Workshops to produce a significant fraction of the guns made.
Maybe it would have. At first. And then it would have been invaded by germany or bombarded to stone age by royal navy.
Yeah I didn't know crap about firearms when I was in the army, I was even stuck working as an armorer for a year and really didn't know much outside of what part goes where. When I retired and picked it up as s hobby I actually learned
You two gentleman are basically like the Wayne and Garth of gun channels on TH-cam, and that's something I never realized I would appreciate so much but I sure do lol
They're not worthy!
Love to see you two working together! Can't wait for February!
In Julian Byng's bio they talk about Canadian troops cutting down Enfields so they'd launch a grenade further. They got the idea when they realized the German rifles had a longer grenade range and had shorter barrels. I loved the we he described it as "we proceed to destroy his majesty's property".
Little history: I came to this channel because of the promo of The Great War (which I followed) and Ian's shows.
And C&Rsenal is the one that I literally time my calendar for.
1:00:03 That's a pretty perfect way to put this, I'm gonna shamelessly steal that for future conversations.
Yes, epic and a comparison I´ll use from here on, too.
i just realized Ian looks like the average Red Dead Online Character :D
Maybe player's are trying to make their character look like Ian
he does! =o
Sooner or later I hope ian yells out "I'll be your huckleberry" during a 2 gun comp..
Will there be blueberries?
Asking the real questions
You guys made my morning. Thank you.
Very cool collab. Stay safe, Stay armed
Please sell the pokey hand shirt! It’s totally rad!
Thankz guys for a great collab. One feature of the 10 rd mag with 5 rd stripper clips on the SMLE that doesn't get mentioned much, seems to be the ability to perform tactical reloads which wouldn't be possible on a 5&5 setup. The Bloke brought this up recently and Rowan took good advantage of it in a 2GACM. I see this as a significant advantage over having to wait until your mag is empty in order to reload. Much in the way the King's loading gate is over the Henry's reloading procedure and am left wondering if this was a thing back in the day or just another twist of hindsight looking at the possibilities from our modern point of view. Thanks
It was called a 'charger' clip not 'stripper' clip.
Yeah c&r does amazing work! Watched almost all their content
Wtf ? My mind exploded seeing the collaboration ( thanks for the video I needed this my week has been shit )
Holy gunsmoke! It's the Gun Jesus and the Gun Santa Claus all togetter. Christmas sure came early this year.
I thought gun jesus was JMB
@@chrismc410 No, he was literally Moses! 😅
@@joshglover2370 well, he parted the metaphorical red sea of affordability and accessibility between the average joe and semiautomatic pistols.
Ok. Gun Jesus could be Mikhail Kalashnikov. He brought a new weapon and a new testament on tactics on its use. The word and gospel spread quickly.
Yeeessssss MORE TEASING! This is gonna be brilliant!
Mae did good shooting the pederson device
I think the description of Pedersen as the M.C. Esher of guns, is just... perfect.
How hard could it be
The wise mans hold my beer
48:40 another reason I’ve heard Ian mention before was the reason the US didn’t adopt .271(?) for the garand or Peterson rifles was because they had so much .30-06 in stockpiles
Edward Olson; The round you are referring to was the .276 Pedersen (or .27 caliber). One reason it was not adopted was it used lubricated rounds, which were not allowed in the desing competition. Also General Mac Arthur was agintest it because of the 30/06 stockpile. Another interesting fact was the early Garand had in mind a detachable box mag, and select fire operation. But the Ordinance dept nixed those features saying that a box magazine would get lost in the field, and that full auto would waste ammo. Basically the same argument they have used since the Civil War to derail any weapons research, "IT COSTS TOO DAMN MUCH" . And yet some 20 years later they came out with the M-14 which is a heavily modified M-1!
Ian, regarding the adoption of semi-autos in WW1 I wonder if we could apply a similar scenario to InRange's Levergun Whatif? Yes the available semi-auto rifles and carbines had issues with complexity, maintenance, parts/ammo supply and range/power compared with full-power bolt-actions. However the exact same could be said about the US Army adopting lever-actions in the mid 1800s. You and Karl explored the idea of NCOs and other specialised troops getting Winchesters in .44-40 to provide short-range rapid firepower to compliment the privates' .45-70 trapdoor Springfields, which were slow firing but had superior range and power.
I would love you to explore the idea of specialist front-line WW1 troops adopting self-loading carbines in parallel with the regular troops keeping their Enfields, Mausers, Arisakas etc. These troops could be better trained than the average conscript, both in terms of maintenance and how to best exploit their weapons' advantages. As well as being issued to NCOs for providing protection against short-range zerg rushes, German stormtrooper techniques would be particularly suited to the use of these rifles I think. The Winchester 1907 in .351, with 10-round mags, would be a good benchmark, as it was available in quantity during the period and was chambered in an intermediate cartridge. This would split the difference between a full-sized rifle and something in a pistol calibre.
its all ways good to listen to other peoples opinions , and some time's we just may learn some thing , thanks guys for the education .
Great work guys.. such a awesome video !
I'm glad I rewatched this for Ian's mention of Rosalie
Thank you for answering my question.