Is the Raspberry Pi 4 really that bad?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ส.ค. 2019
- The Raspberry Pi 4 is out! If you've read the first impressions, you always hear about overheating and USB issues - but is it really that big of a deal?
I test the Raspberry Pi 4 against the Raspberry Pi 3 Model B and against the very first Raspberry Pi and the results are stunning to say the least.
CORRECTION: The Choetech USB cable only worked with the Huawei supply, not the Anker one.
Products shown:
Raspberry Pi 4 from Amazon go.toms3d.org/RPi4
Raspberry Pi 4 from Watterott shop.watterott.com/Raspberry-...
Anker PD charger / supply options go.toms3d.org/AnkerPD
Anker two-port charger / supply options go.toms3d.org/Anker2Port
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Thanks to everyone who pointed out that I actually tested against a Raspberry Pi 2, not the 3!
I had always been under the impression that I owned a 3. Sorry about that.
The Raspberry 3 came with only about a 30% performance increase over the 2, so the results should be similar (but not identical). Still, the Pi 4 still has a massive edge over the previous generations!
I was wondering about that myself, I was thinking you might have a 3B+. I've had just 3B's and have never had or seen the sd card 'click' capability on any of mine. So maybe that option was only on the 2's?
the rpi 3 also has the sd reader downgrade. so no bummer. to be honest: i do not need the click
The 2 is great for a scif and those super secret builds when your a yt star and don't want big business, or 4chan users with too much time, to steal your IP. Just dont forget the Faraday cage. I would use sheet copper and cut round holes in it for a start, but I am an arm chair paranoid and have no idea what I am talking about.
@@chriscontact5857 … wut?
@@AndrewGillard Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility = SCIF pronounced SK-if. I just wish Pi ii was 64 bit. Hey you can always cluster it.
You might be able to de-solder the wifi antenna from some of the later Pi's, but hey if your a propper arm chair paranoid, you are worried because the architecture is still there.
Just say'n.
-Do you need 4K TV for displaying clock and calendar on wall?
-No but yes
The question should be: Do you really need to display clock and calendar on wall?
@@leoalmeida2583
Wristwatch: Do you really need a wall to display a clock and calendar?
Do you really need a wall?
At least he's doing something, and that's saying a lot for most people.
Phhh, probably not even touchscreen
That's not a "dashboard" my man. That's the entire friggin' windshield.
It's just a little oversized smartphone, without the phone function. Or can you use it as a phone? 😂
@@M0rdH0rst With how phones just keep getting bigger and bigger I'd say that's a phone from the 2040s.
@@M0rdH0rst Of course you can add phone functionality. Simply add mic and install VoIP-software. You should add touch functionality too. And of course a lte-stick for mobile internet and a car battery to make it "mobile" ;-)
@@M0rdH0rst you can with the right accessories xD
@@oleurgast730 that is basically how large mobile phones was in the begining. When you needed a car to move it around.
That was without a CRT screen or Teletype.
The micro SD not clicking anymore was already on the pi 3 as well. Their reasoning is that many people complained about the sd card jumping out when being bumped. Now without the spring you specifically have to pull to get it out. So Yeah, I am with you that i liked the springy version better. But hearing their reasoning i perfectly get the point.
The 3B+ is when they removed the ejecting SD slot.
@@mrjackson2k The 3B didn't have a spring either
Some had the clicky slots, some didn't.
The Pi Zero also doesn't have a spring.
I've had a few of the Pi2 stop clicking and have had to hold the card in with tape. That is a real pain. I would much rather have a friction fit. It can permanently break the slot if someone who doesn't know any better comes along and yanks the SD card out. Or tries to force it in the wrong way.
Wow! Didn't know there was a 4th version out! Thanks for your time and dedication to review the board!
Genuinely expected a Linus-moment when you picked up the TV.
Eh, don't trust a book by it's cover trust a book by it's title 😜😜
give this man a medal
*flashbacks to when he dropped a $10,000 cpu*
DAAAAMN i just discovered the MPCNC and i'm very happy you are doing videos about it! Can't wait!
Thanks Patreon! Now I can use a 4k huge TV as a thermometer :D
LOL
jose gonzales huu
Just stumbled on this. My man! Thanks for posting. Finally gonna get some time to put the pi4 through its paces and I'm excited. Bright future for Pi Foundation.
Great comparison and review. Very informative. Thank you for taking the time out to do this. I am now a subscriber.
Tom, thank you for sharing this. I'm still using the first 512mb Pi 1 B for my octoprint server. I have been wondering how much better one of the newer pis would be and you answered that question wonderfully. You talked about never seeing throttling with practical use on the Pi 3 or Pi 4, when running emulation station on a pi 3, if you don't have a heat sink then the cores will get hot enough to throw out a temp warning and begin throttling. Again thank you!
One huge step forward for my Octoprint was to use a SSD via USB as the boot volume. Even a cheap 120 GB SSD for less than 20 € has increased the "felt fun" of using Octopi by at least 200% (not even counting the peace of mind that timelapses won't fill up the storage easily)
Calender states "MPCNC build" ... can't wait to see, I just reworked mine from RAMPs to Estlcam with seperate motor drivers
Thank you for this great info Tom! How would you feel about using A RPi 4 for octoprint + multiple camera's?
That moment when a hand sized computer has better specs than your PC.
I doubt it, unless you are talking about the 4k capability. That's just pure GPU. You most likely have better CPU.
You need a better pc.
I Hope you get 35 dollar
@@wikwayer Total system is around $100. First, you want a the 4GB version of the Pi4 - that's $55, a good case, that's $15, a 128 GB SD Card, $20, and a good power supply, that's $10. I'd recommend the Flirc case for the both the pi 3 and 4.
@@richardwicks4190 well that escalated quickly
The amperage advice helps so much in general understanding of power usage. 👍 thanks
best way ever to thank patreons!!!!! *at the end
Great comparison. Thank you. I remember switching from RBP1 to 3 because of printer issues and it solved them. The 4 seems cool, but not compelling enough to replace my RBP3 that’s dedicated to Octoprint.
Just got a Raspberry Pi 4. Thank you for this great video. Well produced and very informative.
you can press "1" in top to see the individual cores. Makes for a better presentation since you can show moa cores
Dude - I learned a new trick! Thanks for that. I bet you read the man page. :-)
also with the microSD thing, its a super annoying thing to regress on, but it wasnt just a money saving this, the old style latching one had issues of scratching the terminals on microSD cards and the'd get stuck a lot etc.
but i still miss it.
Bravo! Excellent production, with great video, clean audio, and a clear speaking voice. Thank you!
Great video! Been hoping someone would do this... You covered everything! AWESOME!!! (and the peeling at the end was great!) :)
I went with poe for my 3b+, rather than the USB connection. I would do the same for the 4. Such an easier way to run the system, and you can pull real time power usage from the switch.
"Micro" should be reserved for the board and its surface-mounted components. The ports should be as big and robust as possible because that's where the rubber meets the road.
Yeah. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't kill them cost-wise if the board would have to be 2cm bigger because of it. Cases aren't backwards compatible anymore anyway.
My local supplier finally got some Pi4s in, and I grabbed one late last week. With all the negative hype, I expected problems. I put one of those little $1 Pi heat sinks on it, and used the 2.5A power supply that came with my Pi3B and a micro-SD to C adapter. Did the recommended firmware update.
It is totally fine. No throttling. No low-power warnings. No problems powering an external (mechanical) HD. I think that firmware update resolved whatever people were complaining about.
Thanks for the great video. There are three things that I wanted to note:
1. When you load a power supply, you get a voltage drop over the cable and on the output of the power supply itself. But power supplies differ in output voltage, which is important to consider in your test. For example, let's say you have two 1.8A power supplies, and the rpi board gives an undervoltage signal at 4.3V (suppose). At maximum current, the cable you use has a drop of 0.8V (suppose). Then if one power supply has an output voltage of exactly 5.0V (at 1.8A), you will get throttling. OTOH, if the other power supply delivers 5.2V (at 1.8A), it will work just fine. More often than not, it is the voltage drop over cheap cables that causes throttling, and in those cases, a 5.3V supply helps a great deal (so do good cables). Sometimes they specify the exact output voltage, and some actually are 5.3V. Important specification to watch out for when shopping.
2. The fact that you could run the same OS image on all three boards means that your OS (probably all official raspbian versions) are still using the ARMv6 instruction set, which not only is 32bit, but also doesn't even use NEON instructions among others. This is actually pretty wasteful, because an ARMv8 compiled OS (64bit) would actually get much more performance out of the rpi4.
3. Unlike you (lol), I do have a raspberry pi 3, and without heat-sink it suffers from thermal throttling when loaded heavily. From what I had read, the rpi4 draws a lot more current, so it should get even hotter. I ordered mine already and included a big heat-sink just in case.
1. Yes, I do agree with you
2. RP foundation are clear that they used the 64 bit ARM as a faster version of 32 bit ARM. That is by design. So yes, you can move the same image between the different boards. (Hunches on) I have some memory about that when booting the first time, the Raspbian configure and adapt to the board type, so it might be a problem to pop out of RPi 4 and into RPi 1 and boot. (Hunches off)
About NEON, that can be detected at run time and be used in those machine and libraries that need that. But I don't know about that one.
3. He said that it did throttle on artificial load, but not on his real time load. Which would be true. The RPi 4 get things done faster, and thus have shorter times of heat generating time compared to RPi 3 and RPi 1. So it has more time to cool down in real time applications, which would compensate for that higher top current running time. The firmware was improved to cool down the CPU more after the first release of Raspbian.
(4. And from RPi 3, you can boot of USB stick or over network, which would be faster, especially if you use the WiFi, as it uses another data path then what is shared with USB and Ethernet on RPi 3, don't remember about RPi 4, but should be looked up)
Great video, thanks!
Which FLIR camera model did you use?
Thanks for uploading a comparison of older rPi's.. :D
A little annoyed that the image for this said, “is the RasPi 4 better for 3D printing?” And then this is a 20 min video that’s unrelated to 3D printing.
I'd really like to know how the 4B does with Klipper.
Indeed i made that mistake and i'm running now the raspberry 4 on my Octoprint. After a few prints the Pi 4 IS NOT better (at this time 2-10-2019). Pi camera hangs, Updating does not work (as it is not supported yet) and temperature measurement (through GPIO) for enclosure does NOT work. I probably going to put back the Pi 3 asap. Sorry Tom like 99% of your videos but this one is not helping much ;-) still cheers and thanks for all the other 99%!! :-D
@@ErikLegerstee I'm thinking about getting a raspberry pi 3 or 4 for my octoprint so I can monitor my two CR10 S4 and S5. What do you suggest?
Nice video! What camera is Thomas using? The image is great!
I'm going to forego suggesting the addition of a heatsink for the CPU's heat issue's (as I'm certain you're as tech savvy as the rest of us) [Note: I should have waited to watch the entire video before suggesting the addition of a heatsink.]
Thank you for your testing and presentation of your video. Great Job!
There's videos that show you can overclock the PI 4 up to 2 GHz with appropriate cooling (no your flirc case or 4mm heatsink isn't going to work. The coolers are similar to what you saw on a 486 DX2, still tiny, but makes a huge difference).
When I run Octoprint with a webcam (Logi C615) and set the Resolution to 1920x1080 @ 30fps on a Raspberry Pi 3 B and B+ I get thermal throttling. I'm curious if a Pi 4 would be able to handle streaming with that resolution. Good video on the new Pi
for me, the most valuable asset of the Pi4 is the Gigabit Lan, it works much faster with my NAS than the PI 3 with its local drive.
Indeed combined with the USB3, the RPi4 actually is a serious contender for NAS solutions.
Yep, USB3 + gigabit lan makes it actually usable as a NAS now.
I got an odroid xu4 years ago. Its had the gigabit lan and an because of the arm architecture runs all raspi os/apps. It's basically the stats of the raspi 4, idk why you waited for the 4
It is not about maximum performance so much as it is about reliable supply, demand and community. No odroid is a drop-in replacement for my RPi projects.
@@Diggnuts for me it was literally a drop in replacement my pi. As it runs the exact same software (dietpi) and as such has the exact same community support as the pi.
I'm mad! I wanted a raspberry PI 3.14159........ 😡
Oh, like the version number of TeX, which is based on $\pi$. You never run out of version digits.
And \LaTeX{} uses $\mathrm{e}$ for the same reason. It never run out of version digits. :-)
@@NorbertLedenyi hahaha! Good one!
:)
that is irrational of you
Bottom line - use a fan + heatsink. I finally got my 4GB Pi4 and feel that it definitely can be used as a usable desktop substitute! One can load Libre Elec OS simultaneously, dual boot the Pi. Works well as a media center except actual 4K might be problematic. I have not tried 4K yet and heard that 4K for media center uses may not be practical on the Pi4. Otherwise, it seems to work well!
Did you try reversing the side on the USB C cable that doesn't work?
Some cable / connectors have issues with that
I've been using the mini HDMI port on my Yoga 2 Pro for 6 years now. Plugging in 2 times a day. Still works like a charm.
Good for you, but the Pi 4 is equipped with Micro HDMI ports, not mini.
@@ormanmarvin Sorry, that's what I meant. My ultrabook has a micro HDMI port the same as the Pi 4 has two of. Those things do last a long time.
That's good to know about the power consumption because I've seen recommendations to use a 3A power supply.
Also, thanks for testing the different cables as it helps to figure which cables to buy.
As with cooling, if you get under power, the CPU will throttle down. And if you add some USB devices, it will not work. So better be safe then sorry there. But if you know that you will not add other stuff on USB or IO ports, then you can go for the lower spec power supply.
I can say from experience, do not use USB cables for power, barrel connector can provide higher amps, especially when running external drives and other accessories.
About that USB wattmeter: I've recently bought a UMC25c (lots of different brands) that seems a lot better in terms of how much it can handle, and it has some power logging built in. It even connects to a pc over bluetooth, but the app is kinda limited. Since it uses serial over bluetooth though, I figure it should be possible to find out how to query it and then write a better logging app. Haven't gotten around to that though.
Explaining computers does a great set of vids on cooling the PI 4!
Your going to do a video on your TV project right? You could put a 3d printed case in it just to keep the 3d printing theme.
There will be 3D printed parts in it, but I'm trying to show more of the projects I do on the channel - even if they're not directly 3D printing related. I feel like so many projects and methods mesh really well with 3D printing, so I'm hoping to inspire some folks to expand their horizon 😉
Thanks for the video, Thomas. It has made me think that I will hold off on getting a Pi 4 for now. It also made me realize I should move my Pis around. My Pi 2 will go to my workbench to replace the Pi 3 which I will use with Octoprint to control my new delta printer. I'll also move the LCD on the Pi2 to the Pi3 so I can use TouchUI with OctoPrint. I will have to see if you have done any videos about TouchUI.
Metal surface CPU actually gives a huge advantage with placing a heat sink on it. Instead of the conductive tape on the old ones you could get on any china site for a dollar can now be applied with proper thermal paste instead!
@Thomas , do you think the RaspberryPi 1 could be use at least to track your printer and may be to kill the print if something goes wrong?
You should rerun your boot time test using USBs. SD cards are known to be slower, especially on the Pi.
Great video.
I have RPi 3B+ and loving it. Yes, I agreed RPi 4 should have full size HDMI port. I hope there will be the full size HDMI port version.
ALso, I wish there will be a 64 bit Raspberian OS to make full use of 4GB RAM. and CPU capabilities..
BTW, my RPi 3B+ is powered by 24" LCD TV's USB port and runs fine.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for this video. I was on the fence since I own 5 pi 3b+ and need another for a new printer and was debating the 4. My question is, do you think its worth it to upgrade from 1gb ram to 2 if all i'm doing is sending gcode and operating a USB camera? I slice in s3d outside of octoprint.
Great comparison. Thank you.
How about some detail of the thermal camera? Where's the link for the *python* *code* ?
Where did you find that dashboard with the temp. time and calendar? Would love to use it with my Pi
You could make it in a day or so with something like React.
What is the digital dashboard display you are planning on running? The bit you showed at the beginning of the video.
Hi Thomas, Have you tested your 4b by powering it via PoE ?? I ask this because, I've not yet viewed anyone else testing this method of providing power !
You have broken an hdmi cable?
I had one permanently connected while not actually fitting because the connector was to fat and stuck against my case casing it to be at a 10 degree angle.
Hey Tom,
what is your opinion on the Archim 2 board from Ultimachine? thinking of upgrading an old big printer I bought from a now defunct company.
Let me know!
I love your studio and the idea of the TV screen used as a world clock... you are towards a real news studio before you know it! :-)
Thank you for reviewing
Just a quick question that I have not been able to find the answer to can a Raspberry Pi run vinyl cutter / plotter?
well, i just bought a 3b+ so i don't want to watch the vid, but i do it anyway because i love your channel =D
I wouldn't be too hurt about it. A lot of software hasn't been made compatible or optimized with the Pi4 yet. and the 3B+ is still a very powerful Pi. The one thing though that I would say the Pi4 excels at is the 4K output and HEVC video decoding. If you are using the 3B+ for video playback than I would have buyers remorse for buying the 3B+ instead of the 4. (Kodi works great on the 4 already). If you aren't doing video playback I would keep the 3B+ for the more stable releases of existing software optimized for the 3B+
@@elmergloo3259 yeah thanks
One can never have too many raspberry pi's anyway.
Thanks , now I dont have doubts to use PI4 for my new printer.
9:00 "...over the haaa..." 🤣
lol 😁
The peel, The most creative way to keep people during the credits just like after credit scenes in movies. Fantastic
The end is so satisfying :)
With regard to CPU loads, I once spent several weeks trying to track down why prints that I sliced with Cura were turning out terrible around curved objects (cylinders, radii, etc). Slicing the exact same model with Slic3r yielded perfect prints. I eventually tracked it down to the original RPi Model B I had running OctoPrint for the machine not being able to keep up with feeding G-code to the printer fast enough, which meant curved sections had pauses between each little segment, leading to blobbing.
To this day I'm not sure if it was due to an update to Cura (and how it outputs g-code for curves) or to OctoPrint, because it had worked great for roughly three years prior.
you have a working build for Octo print for the Pi4? Please direct me to a link where you obtained this copy?
Why use such a big panel for something paper can do just fine? Or a whiteboard?
Apart from that, you may want to hang some sound absorption on the ceiling and side walls to counter the echo. What are those panels on the back wall behind you? I'm curious.
The foundation said the USB-C resistor issue will be corrected in a later update, and that's my only technical beef with the Pi4 since most of my kit uses USB PD chargers. Once that's in the wild, I'll grab a couple of 4 gig Pis for media servers. USB 3 external storage, baby.
Hey Tom, what software are you using for the dashboard?
There must be people out there trying it - but with two display outputs and sizeable compute capacity it should nicely function as an all-up board for a resin DLP printer, just needs a little hat to drive the z stepper. And a bunch of software, of course, but the pieces are all out there...
Tom, what 4k monitor are you using here? Experience???
You said in your video that your newest Octopi build was August 8th, but I can't find that build, do you have a link?
Nice video, what kind of keyboard you are using in the beginning of the video.
It looks like a Logitech Bluetooth keyboard.
5:00 I really wish you would have covered transfer times of gcode. I bought Pi Zero because they were only $5 but the transfer over wifi seems like forever to the printers. I don't know if it's the pi zero, network, or otcoprint that's causing the slow speeds.
Can I solder the "clicky" SD card slot into the footprint of the "non-clicky" Raspberry 4 card slot?
Yes you can! It’s tricky to unsolder the old one though
Break the plastic and desolder one pin at a time.
Thanks Tom. Although I don't have a Pi 4 (yet) I had always thought that the critics were being far too hard. Now I know the real life facts.
The Raspi4 suggests a minimum of 3A for its power supplies AFAIK. In my experience, it can be pretty picky in terms of supplies/cables, so your findings are very interesting to me. Will have to do some more playing around....I believe that use of USB 3 would immediately increase power demand, but will have to find out...
I am using it as a python / pi dev system, dual monitors, 128gb ssd. It rocks.
I currently have a Pi 3B (not the 3B+) which handles octoprint duty and makes life so much easier, especially sending prints from PrusaSlicer. I also have the old Pi 1B, which just isn't really powerful enough to do anything super useful anymore, so I have it set up as a VPN server for while i'm at school - it's powerful enough to max out my home broadband's 6mbps upload speed.
At some point I would kinda like to pick up a Pi 4 to see what it can do though!
Excellent video Thomas.
What are you using to display your calendar? I am super interesting in that as I want to do the exactly same thing.
ive been thinking of doing the same and turning it into a smart mirror. but what ive found is pretty old so i would love to see how Thomas does it
It looks like DAKboard
He's posted about it on his Twitter.
Ya its DAKboard
Tom, how much memory have you used in your PI 4B?
Nice. BUT, the temperature also depends ofcourse on where the raspberry is installed, if behind a already hot TV or elsewhere where people may typically have it, or country climate even maybe.
There are several specs for the USB 3 C type cable. One spec is for a power supply cable such as your laptop. I think the capacity is 100 Watts.
Nicely done. Thank you.
I love my Pi 4. Great little 'puter. Have mine in a smraza case with it's little cooling fan and it runs at about 37 -38 degrees and never gets out of the 40's under load. I think they did a great job. I understand about the hdmi, but I connect to mine remotely. Of course, I jumped from a Pi 1 to a Pi 4 so......
We're you able to run Octoprint with the pi4 windows like Raspian version? I couldn't get it to work. I had to go back to the Linux based application.
Hello, your FLIR camera isnt listed on your "my-gear" page. Can you please put it there as well? Thanks
Thanks for making this video when I get the new Pi I'm gonna test out Blender again and see if the pi's graphics goes nuts again...
Manufacturing proper USB-C cables is pricey since it is still a very finicky process with a lot of manual steps and supervision.
"Power cables" on the other hand are not, since they don't bother hooking up all the available pins and bridge some stuff together.
That's still fine spec wise but you don't get any data through that.
i was subscribing the same moment you popped up at the end of the video to remind me to subscribe :D
I played with the B+, 2 and 3 a while back and settled on the 2 for Octoprint. I don't tend to slice on it and it was the best balance of power and price. Also I prefer the non-clicky sdcard slot, they fire your sdcard across the room and they get lost.
I just stumbled across this man and I think he is just a treasure.
It's the Pi 4 USB-C that isn't made to spec. They did something funky with the power delivery detection so only certain chargers and cables work. So for me, my Macbook Pro charger doesn't work, but my Pixel 3 charger does, as does my old Nexus 6P charger.
4:22 If the SD is the bottleneck for boot-speed... isn't it time that the Raspberry Pi 5 adds MMC support?
How did you get octoprint to run on RPi4. Octopi does not yet have an official image for RPi4. Did you install buster and then install OPi from source?
4 actually boots slower, it has more checks it does before boot initializing.
A simple heatsink solves majority heat issues, a fan is required if you're maxing the CPU for long periods but mine doesn't reach over 48C with a 50 cent 30x30 fan from aliexpress.
Funnily it's really common over the past couple of years that many minor bugs which only affected a small percentage of the users are totally overhyped through the media. Thanks for your test being a corrective. I ordered myself the 4GB model and really looking forward doing some make stuff with it.
Bwhahahah, YES we were all looking at the plastic covering on the TV. Thanks for sharing the plastic removal!