Great video -- I am jealous that you got a PCIe board to experiment with! Very interesting that you can set to PCIe 3.0 in the config. So many possibilities here. :)
You're the only TH-camr that makes a 20 minute video that has all the information I was looking for in a well presented fashion without any obvious bias towards a brand or product at all. Thanks!
@@omar10wahabwhy kissass? what benefit would they have from kissing ass? altruism is a thing, and supporting content makers means more and better content.
So far, I've found this to be the best among the first wave of RPi 5 reviews. It goes into a lot of details without making the video long, repetitive and rambling. It's all to the point. 👍
I've watched 4 different (pre)reviews of the Pi 5 and once again, Jeff is gold standard for his reviews of SBCs. Thanks Jeff, you covered a lot more than the others. Thanks for the great (pre)review!
My Orange Pi 5 Plus has 3 full-sized HDMI ports (2 output and 1 input), 2 x 2.5Gbps ethernet ports, a full-sized 2280 M-key m.2 slot, an E-key m.2 slot for a network card, a type-c port with DP support, an IR receiver, removeable EMMC with modules available up to 256GB, build-in microphone, 3mm headphone/microphone jack, 40-pin gpio, and LCD and camera headers. The RK3588 with its Mali GPU is still much faster than the pi 5 and has a build-in 6 TOPS NPU for machine learning and memory options up to 16gb (32gb on the standard Orange Pi 5). I currently have it running desktop Debian 11 with KDE Plasma from a 500GB m.2 SSD with a Wi-Fi 6/BT 5.0 card. I hardly even notice that I'm using an SBC most of the time. Oh, and it's in stock.
One thing I've always been fascinated by is the NAS builds with pi that you've done. Ive felt that the previous pi models weren't sufficient in making a small or basic NAS but I think that will change with this model. Id love to see more videos on the topic, it's one of those things I think I'll never get bored of seeing.
Dear Raspberry Pi Foundation, After being a dedicated Raspberry Pi enthusiast for quite some time, I have now officially become a "Rockchip Boy." It's not an easy decision, and I want to express my gratitude for all the incredible work you've done with the Raspberry Pi series. The Raspberry Pi has been an amazing platform for learning, tinkering, and creating all sorts of exciting projects. But lately, I've found myself drawn to the versatility and power of Rockchip-based devices. Their performance and capabilities have opened up new possibilities for my projects and hobbies. While I'll always have a special place in my heart for the Raspberry Pi, it's time for me to explore this new path in the world of single-board computers. Thank you for all the inspiration and innovation you've brought to the community. I'll be watching your future developments with great interest, and who knows, maybe I'll return to the Raspberry Pi family one day. Wishing you continued success and growth. Sincerely, WurstPeterl certtified RockChip Boy
I am beyond thrilled for the additional I/O on the Pi 5. It's wild that you didn't need an entire video compiling kernels and all that to get simple PCIe devices running in any capacity. I have a pre-order in for the 4GB and all the relevant accessories... Can't wait! Great vid as always! All the info in one place and some nice comparisons.
The only thing I love more than the raspberry pi is Jeff’s excellent, comprehensive video providing us with all the info we need to know. I cannot wait to order the new unit ❤
I really think they made a wise decision by trading efficiency for price. The general consumer really wont care about the difference in efficiency at this level of power consumption. The Pi appeal always was about being the underdog, and still getting the job done for less than a family dinner out.
@@megatronskneecap same, but I guess that all depends on the size of your family, and the type of food. With an average family size of 4 people, and eating at a reasonably priced chain sit-down restaurant... you will probably be down for $60... +tax and tip... ~$80-90
If only they crammed an m.2 connector in there, would have been absolutely perfect. But still a 2.5x improvement from the 4 is no joke considering just how capable the 4 is
@@pidojaspdpaidipashdisao572 All the stores i checked ARE still out of stock anyway, at least Canada. Gotta be like 2 or so Years straight at this point. And now they want to introduce another product? oof.
@pidojaspdpaidipashdisao572 honestly tho with inflation being what it is, the price might be more consistent than it looks at a glance (I mean compare it to the cost of eating out back in the day vs now).
If it had a NVME I would be positive about this release. But now they remove hardware acceleration of video, they still have those really bad mini hdmi ports, and it needs a fan and heatsink (why not just put it on as standard then?) That adapter will be like $40 probably for NVME, and make it like one inch thicker.
For arm there is a UEFI certification program called ARM SystemReady. There is a UEFI shim for this for the Pi3/4, it's needed to boot ESXi and Windows. It would be nice if there was a transition over that for the boot firmware.@@Caddy666
The ability to use pcie right from the board makes me want something like a SATA controller hat. Even if it's slow per port, the ability to run either dual HDDs or sata SSDs in either form factor would make for a cool budget NAS build.
@@LtdJorge True. That single 3.0 lane is actually quite good bandwidth. I mentioned it being slow per port because they don't have to stop at 4 ports. An 8-port SATA controller could be used, but I think just 2 really fast ones or maybe 3 would be plenty.
Really glad to see the Pi 5 having more PC-alike features natively like a power button, a PWM fan header and USB-PD! I'm completely fine with my Pi 4, but I'm debating whether or not I want to use something like the Rock 5B or the Pi 5 instead when I'm upgrading to a completely new system in the future. Probably just depends on what hardware connections I need at this point ^^'
Having dealt with both the rpi4 and rock pi stuff for work for a while in sizable numbers the real difference is community, stability and support. The non rpi stuff looks great on paper but the downsides rapidly became apparent as soon as something didnt work as expected.
This is what I worried about as well, having used none of them so far. - It's just because the Raspberry Pi has become THE one in the kind of category of computers that it's so much more widely used and known, automatically increasing the support for it. - I almost decided to just bypass the RPi as "my first one" to a more powerful board, but then I didn't know if I would understand the lesser-known ones. Besides, I should have tried at least one RPi. Probably always useful for something.
preciseley the community makes the difference they do all the legwork they support it they adopt it its just a shame that for the pi 4 pi foundation decided to favour its industry partners wou would keep anything they do with it under nda and tight restrictions and contribute NOTHING back to the community
@@michaelmonstar4276 This very much depends on your use case. I feel a lot of people buy these micro PCs and they end up in the cupboard, own personal one certainly has. Unless you have a specific use case (GPIO etc)a normal computer / laptop or something like a intel NUC or gigbyte brix is often a better option.
Agreed! I’ll take well supported but not as performant any day. When you start hitting $130-$180 I start questioning the value vs. just running VMs on larger and way more performant hardware at that point.
This was so thorough. Usually for stuff like this I’d have to go and find the answers to my questions individually. You’ve covered everything I needed to know all in one video. Well done!
The reason why you can't playback 4K video is likely because the browser on the pi is forcing the x264 codec which is easier to decode, youtube doesn't offer the 4K data stream in this codec. Same thing happens when you install the x264ify extension on your pc.
Good lord, the Pi 1 is so obnoxiously slow looking back on it from the lens of today. The OG pi found it's most use for me as a VPN server before I had a comprehensive homelab.
dont waste your money on rpi or any sbc, get a secondhand mini pc's like hp or dells, its old but its still more powerful than these sbcs, plus the power consumption difference is negligible.
Am premptively buying a POE switch before the hat comes out, but does anyone know what would the watt needed for it or compatible models if you wanted to hook up 4 of them?? Would 30W per port be enough
In my experience, this use case has never been reliable, due to a mixture of issues ranging from microSD card corruption, to dodgy UAS support for external boot drives, unreliable USB-ethernet adapter performance etc.
@@tomfahey2823 The PCI-E port on the board would let ya connect a 4x port NIC and then use the Pis internal Gigabit as the +1 though, no USB Ethernet adapters needed If Jeff can get 6Gb on a 10Gb NIC that should translate to full 1Gb on 5 ports at least somewhat
@@tbthegr81 Yes, but that's not really an upgrade on the Pi 4 Compute Module then, is it? And you still have the problem of unreliable storage media. This is why I was hoping for more PCIe lanes and/or NVMe, or at least eMMC support.
SBCs with a double port (for ingress and outgress) still are way better solutions usually. 8 port gigabit switch is a pittance these days, no reason to make it expensive in a specialised hat.
@@tomfahey2823 I've had extremely reliable Sata to USB operation and uptime. But did have to experiment a little with USB hubs as they would run for weeks then randomly crash requiring a reboot
Thanks - I think you covered pretty much everything. Hopefully the Pi5a or something will have 2.5Gbit network builtin, just hope they use something saner and more plug/play than that crappy RTL8169 chip
This was awesome to see, most important for me though is the improved manufacturing simplicity, fingers crossed it finally fixes the supply issues. Where i am RP4 B is still 130eur on Amazon & 100eur on official RPI suppliers.
I don't think the supply chain issues had anything at all to do with manufacturing. This will likely reduce production line setup and operational costs and improve yields, all of which helps keep prices down, but if you've had any experience buying electronic components in the past 4 years it's pretty clear why companies like the Raspberry Pi Foundation have had supply issues. It's component supply that is the problem. Lowering manufacturing costs isn't going to make more components magically appear on the market.
@@badger47-n3c Thank you very much, but I don't need it. I'm just here to express my opinion. that some distributors think that right now is still a mining boom and chips shortage.
$80 feels like we're back to "just buy a cheap NUC-like for a DPU" but for price and power reasons now too. The Pi has never been a performance monster, it's winning feature is software support for a low power board (courtesy UK taxpayer funding), but now we're at the point of effectively mandatory active cooling and 5w power supplies, the gap is closing between Pis and the world's most ubiquitous platform again, old and/or cheap x86_64 PCs.
@@ryecatcher25 Or literally any flavor of Linux under the sun. Used "Optiplex Micro" are crashing out at ~$110 maxed out with a 7th gen i7 and 16gb RAM, 4x the performance cap for similar power draws idle and S3 vs the Pi's idle and max, lower specs than that are reliably sub-$50. If you really need GPIO ESP32-S3s are ~$7 since China accidentally flooded out the market on those, their USB return speeds are fast enough to be used as a capture device, and they have almost the same GPIO selection. Putting the two together is eco friendly since you're recycling old hardware with minimal power draw, good for your wallet since you're getting more for less, and still getting all the features of a Pi.
I agree - if you are looking for a small NUC, there are better options for the same price after you factor in the board, the adapter, active cooling and a case. I also wouldn't print my own case unless I plan on using ABS. If you print a case with PLA, I doubt it would last long due to high temperatures causing warping. That being said, I loved it back when the Pi was only about 1amp. It could easily be run 100% solar powered and a battery when no solar was available. Now there are other alternatives for that market as well. It feels like the Pi family is not the same Pi that I fell in love with.
If the RPI5 would have launched a year ago it would have been huge, right now i feel like it is on the middle of everything because we have things like the RK3588/S and the Rk3566 covering the rear (The Orange PI 3B gives you a M.2 slot for as low as $30 to play around a single pcie lane). Even RISC-V is starting to put up a fight as the Lichee was already outperforming the RPI4. Not to mention AllWinner new socs that has a dual A78 + Hexa A55.
Stay far away from AllWinner SOCs. In my experience, they heat up quite a bit and usually have bugs(looking at the H6 which had PCIE, but you couldn't access it. At least not with Armbian).
The question I think everybody is asking is why they kept the awful micro-HDMI plugs. They should have gone to full size. Having one displayport and one HDMI also would have been cool. But in general I'm happy that they worked hard to keep the price reasonable.
Id liked to ser a display or mini display port, even could be cheaper because licenses. Lenovo's thinkcenters have no HDMI and with display port is enough.
Yea, i mean, if they want it to be as small as possible, then why put USB-A instead of USB-C? And if they want the compatibility, then there really is no reason to use micro-hdmi... Its just such a strange setup...
My guess is the weight of hdmi chords may have had a tendency to damage ports given the lightweight of the sbc. Choosing to go the micro hdmi may server as a breakway, cutting down the tendency of broke ports. However, that's just a guess. It's also easier to serve the part of the community that needs dual display options for projects dealing with a second screen given the size of full sized hdmi ports. Going with two full sized ports would cut into the sbc's real estate and it would either suffer space issues for other chips and circuitry and or heat issues
This was a very informative and condensed overview of the new RP5. I very much appreciate your analysis that goes beyond "it's better." The why and how goes a long way. Looking forward to more of your content.
At the moment it feels like the only reason to buy a pi is the software support. The alternatives all seem to be lacking (usually only having a couple of distros available) whereas the pi had direct support from multiple distributions. Given this pi only just catches up to the competition in performance and isn't much cheaper then if one of the competitors actually managed to get better software support they would be a much better alternative.
That's the problem, the alternatives never will, I don't know why but they just don't seem interested. You would think that they would want to jump on that but I guess it costs a lot of money.
If you don't care about all the GPIO and PCIe externals, and 3rd-party gizmos, then other SBCs work just fine. I love my Khadas VIM4 and it has 8GB of RAM
@@MrGamelover23 I’d bet that’s largely a fixed cost too, and that the Raspberry Pi can spread it out over more units. The competition probably isn’t seeing a market for hobbyist SBC’s that split the difference and are neither the best supported (since they won’t match rPi overnight) nor the best performance value.
@@chrisg6091 Exactly this. The PI has lost it's way. It's neither cheap, nor a viable solution for most use cases. Why buy a PI when you can buy a celeron MINI PC that does more for less out of the box?
@@spamuman To give credit to the PI foundation, you are able to preorder the PI 5 at those prices right now at multiple different retailers. While I agree it probably wont stick around, I was able to bye a PI 4 about a month ago from Adafruit at MSRP
@@25566 the demand rose, so the price did because the people making them and selling them know dipshits will pay for it. If you won't someone else will
@@25566 I do feel like they're moving too far into the performance field, and are losing sight of people who just need a cheap and not neccesarily powerful computer. I use Pis for home assistant, and a pi 3 is capable of running Home Assistant easily. I do hope Pi 4 does not get discontinued for a good while.
I still think dropping the full size HDMI port for 2 smaller ones was a mistake on the 4b. I was hoping it could get support for dual video out via Type-C connector like they have commonly on docks. Heres hoping that they update the Zero as well because Orange Pi's version of it slaps HARD. I hope that RISC-V becomes viable in my lifetime.
They really should just make the USB-C port fully functional with data and video (DP), and drop one or both micro-HDMI connectors, and maybe have a single full-size HDMI. Sure, the dongles are more expensive, but they're way more ubiquitous. Maybe a special CM5/Zero could come out with a single USB-C connection for some real minimalist projects.
@@khyoyeon554that’d be really awesome; a USB C monitor would be able to provide a single cable for everything (DisplayPort, a USB hub, audio, full power etc etc)
Looks like a great foundation for a pi500 computer: faster USB, SD, PD support, more power, southbridge chip, RTC and a power button. I wonder if this is really what they're after.
Hi Orange shirt Jeff! This is a great summary. The pace is just right and no unnecessary details has been discussed. In the next video maybe you cover OS’s on the PI5 and the usefulness as a desktop computer. Greetings from the Netherlands.
It would be great to see Raspberry pi to create a Pi 500 with this new hardware. I personally love the Pi 400 for being a console management PC, but it desperately needs additional USB ports and incorporating a pci into the Pi 400 form factor would be incredibly helpful.
17:23 how do you accomplish this? is there a toggle in the OS? i'm getting my dad a RP5 for christmas and I doubt he'd care if the USB ports had full power whats more important to him is the processor / RAM / GPU run at full speed.
This is one of your best videos, Jeff. I'm still a Rock 5 admirer for its 8 cores, but I'm hoping the price is going down soon. It's good that the Raspberry Pi 5 has the double of the speed for 5 dollars more. It will probably push the others to reduce prices and launch better models. The case is a cool addition, something that was needed. Let's see what will come up in 2024.
Yay, thanks so much for an excellent in-dept video, Jeff. I read the official Pi blog this morning and just knew you'd have some content ready so left it to enjoy this evening - really appreciate all the work you put into these!
Great video Jeff! Information dense but still nice to watch. I also like the Dutch t-shirt Do you also have information on what happens to overheating when underclocking the chip? The latest Intel chips seem to show that temperature scales exponentially with clockspeed so maybe underclocking might be a solution
We need to start adding the Intel N100 to those comparisons. Efficiency, video playback, io, pcie are very competitive... yes it's usually a bit bigger but there's tons of applications where the size difference is insignificant, the x86 platform is a huge bonus on compatibility (forget about kernel hacks for universal pcie compatibility) and the actual market price and availability have been more tempting on the n100s than the Pis.
If we are talking about intel's announced horse-creek, then why not. But anything based on x86-64, no thank you. This is like using a massive anchor as a door stopper. - PS: Somebody replied, i should reevalute by presenting shiny n100 wattage numbers. That person somehow forgot to mention, that the n100 typically needs a big heatsink and even active coolers to prevent down throttling. The greater heat output is inherent in x86-64 designs no matter what workarounds Intel's engineers tried for over a decade now. The x86-64 complex needs more transistors for an instruction compared to the arm or risc-v isa. And more transistors involved for one instruction inevitably means more power consumption. - Also that person somehow forgot, that intel tries to mitigate their isa disadvantage by producing their SoC chips at a smaller node than the pi and popular risc-v SoCs. In the case of the n100 the used lithography step is intel 7. The PI 5 gets produced at 16 nm and current RISC-V even bigger. So when you compare do it under fair conditions and don't hold back the facts.
nice to see a new pi with most of the drawbacks fixed. this gives me hope the pi ecosystem will be around for a while. looking forward to the release. thanks for the breakdown!
I don't think they fixed the polyfuse issue, as the pi becomes more powerful and costly, they should seriously consider putting some form of over-voltage protection.
Amazing Pi-5 video Jeff! It's just amazing that this new board is twice as fast, while being more efficient at the same time!! Amazing!! Great Video! Thanks for this Jeff!
The raspberry PI has lost sense of its purpose. It was supposed to be cheap. The speed was just supposed to be the icing on the cake, but low price so you could use it on projects that didn't need much processing power. was supposed to be the goal.
I'm so excited to see that this costs as much as a second hand Lenovo tiny with 8GB of RAM and SSD. Yeah, yeah the lenovo uses 35W and it's bigger, but at least it can be saved from the landfill and doesn't corrupt your storage since it also comes with the right PSU.
Wow the amount of computing power in the area of a credit card is amazing. My only complaint is very few of the accessories for the Pi4 fit the Pi5. Which means I'll have to buy everything new again.
There's one thing I would really like to see from the Pi foundation to make the RPi5 worthwhile to me: actual datasheets/TRMs for the BCM-2712 and the RP-1 chip. The pi foundation has never done well here with their SBCs in the past, but the RP2040's datasheet is excellent, so there's some hope here. The various rockchip SBCs are a lot better here since you can actually get TRMs for their socs (even if its a little ... unofficial, shall we say).
I think the lack of that is more to external suppliers than the foundation. A lot comes under NDA. As you point out the rp2040 really shines on documentation, but that thing is completely made in house. I expect to see a lot of documentation on the rp1 but I wouldn't expect much on the new Broadcom cpu. But I blame Broadcom for that. Even your comparison is too non official documentation which isn't a fair comparison
something that blew my mind while working as a contractor (on a Rockchip SoC) is that you can get them to make custom chip packages like stacked die, and getting a TRM *still* like pulling teeth. I don't even know if we managed to get one, had to reverse engineer register status bits for my driver until they sent screenshots from the 1000+ page TRM we weren't given.
@@bzuidgeest ultimately, it's the pi foundation's choice of which soc to use -- theoretically, they could go with something like a TI Sitara AM69 (that's just a random choice of an SoC that's well documented publicly by comparison, I'm not suggesting that they should or shouldn't use that particular chip). At least _some_ of the rockchip parts have officially accessible TRMs (although I think they're incomplete from a cursory glance, which isn't necessarily unexpected), and as far as I understand the rockchip parts don't have a crucial coprocessor that controls the boot sequence and is almost(?) completely undocumented.
that said, I do expect and hope for great things from the RP-1 as far as documentation goes. I'm hoping they also sell it as a higher-end microcontroller
@@ShinyQuagsire ouch -- not even under NDA? That honestly sounds worse than a lot of the other cpu vendors -- I'd assume that most of them would view you as important enough to give a TRM if they view you as important enough to do custom packaging for
One thing i would've liked them to do, as a different model option ofc, is adding a direct M.2 slot to the board. Considering how thin m.2 ssd's are, i can totally imagine adding that port to the back of the board. I'm just guessing it, but the size would barely increase with that, and an m.2 ssd is basically the same price (or even cheaper) as similar sized sd card. (Also ofc it had to be compatible with those older m.2's, not the 'up-to-date' Long ones, as they are longer than the board)
I just got a raspberry pi 5, but I have never used any raspberry pi devices. I downloaded the software to a SD card but it's not powering on after I hit the power button. I am trying to use it for my 3d printer with a touch screen display. I can't figure out what I am missing or doing wrong. Any advice
Visita la página oficial de Raspberry. Hay mucha información y foros ahí. Empieza probando con otra fuente de voltaje (power adapter). Luego, asegúrate de haber seleccionado Pi 5 a la hora de instalar el software, etc. También puedes conectar algún dispositivo USB en algún puerto USB para ver si la energía está entrando a la tarjeta al presionar el botón de start. Saludos desde Mérida Yucatán México.
Pi 5 looks really cool, though I will be waiting for a while to get it. Already have 2 Pi 4s doing all the work I need so far. Looking forward to what Raspberry Pi foundation does for the Zero W series of Pi's.
Amazing video explaining everything. My main concern is if I'll be able to buy it. Everytime I try to get the 8GB Pi4 it is always out of stock except for places with scalper prices. I hope doesn't happen the same with the 8GB Pi5 😔
Raspberry Pi said that they are keeping Pi 5s out of industry hands until the new year, so hopefully that means a little more supply for the rest of us
ok i have a question, i have 2 power bricks of 12v-2a 5v-2a molex connector, another 12v 6a barrel connector, i powered the pi using the radxa penta hat and have seen a different reading for the VDD_CORE_A. The molex connector gives higher readings than the 12v-6a barrel. is using the molex connector bad for my pi? since the readings between the 12v-6a barrel and the official pi powerbrick ( 5v 5a ) have the same readings.
Here's what I want to know: have they addressed EMI with the Pi 5? In all of my use, there were SERIOUS interference problems running USB 3 devices, especially interfering with WiFi and USB 2 devices. I found I needed to use USB extender cables to use USB mice, and other devices like my Sonoff Zigbee controller board. Very annoying! It seems as though they have (quite rightly) put a lot of thought into making the Pi 5's power management more sophisticated, and I'm hoping that the EMI issues have been beaten as well!
I know they were working on some EMI issues with PCIe in particular (which is also probably one of the reasons I had some issues with my early prototype adapter). I think they found some shielding was necessary to help with that (on the cable), and I know they spent a great deal of time on compliance testing for RF/EMI (probably more than they used to!).
13:20 TH-cam is not blocking that option because you are on pios, but because 4k youtube is only supported via VP9 and AV1, which the RPi5 still doesn't have. TH-cam only supports h264 up to 1080p (and h265 not at all) for compatibility with old devices and devices that refuse to support the newer standards (which is why it's so strange the pi still doesn't support vp9 and av1).
For my admittedly casual use case the new Video Core VII was what made me want one. A more powerful and capable GPU has been a loooong time coming, the Pi4 always seemed a little mismatched with it's GPU.
Thanks for the great overview. From the pcb it looks like a number of components are still through hole mounted - the pins are just cut flush with the bottom of the board. This is a good thing though for sockets etc as they are stronger than smd mounted.
Pi was and always should be a teaching and learning tool. I'm glad they are able to find reliable sourcing because I was so worried that stock outages were meant to kill off the Pi. I guess specialty chipsets are meant to avoid future outages. I was looking at the schematics but I wasn't able to see if the COM chipset is the bottleneck like it was for the 3 and 4. Have they removed that issue? EDIT: I'm assuming they will release smaller memory PI5s as you showed there are 8, 4, 2, and 1 Gig memory resistor points on the card.
The supply shortages were industry wide and not limited to the foundation. They worked hard to keep it going. Much of the supply went to business customers. Some people complain about that, but I see that as very good. It gives them a stable source of revenue to make us better boards. It also forces high quality os support because companies like stable software in their machines. And they also like long term availability, which again also serves us.
It would be interesting to see if the RP1 can also be programmed as kind of a co-processor, handling some real-time tasks (like stepping a stepper motor, or reading a rotary encoder signal) without the need for a real-time OS running on the AP. (Or if some of the PIO goodness also made its way into the RP1 silicon)
According to the documentation, the RP1 does feature two ARM Cortex M3 cores - now the question becomes: is it user programmable? :) (datasheets.raspberrypi.com/rp1/rp1-peripherals.pdf page 5)
The Raspberry Pi foundation seriously needs to get their act together. 4+ years of development and this is what we get? Where are the USB-C stuff like DP alt mode, Power Delivery, and so on? PCIe x1 is a nice addition, but not as nice as many of the competitors offering x4. Micro HDMI in 2023 is a slap in the face. And there's even two? They're lucky their software support is great, because otherwise I don't see why they should even exist anymore.
For 4 years I have been crying that the Pi4 didn't have VP9 decoding for TH-cam. And now 4 years later with the Pi5 they are still advertising H.265?! What am I supposed to do with that? Decode BluRay? Where is VP9/AV1? And a single lane of PCIe with a proprietary connector instead of 4xPCIe on m.2? Honestly after 4 years this upgrade (5A Power delivery, CPU upgrade, crypto extensions, experimental PCIe3, RTC) is nice but it's still a disappointment.
Thank you for this great video. I'm curious about the video encoding/decoding benchmarks using hardware-accelerated tools. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems you used x264 for video benchmarks, which is a software implementation of the codec. It would be greatly appreciated if you could also test hardware-accelerated tools, such as gstreamer with omx enabled.
Nice video, tho I am worried there's no more option to get audio through 3.5mm jack, I have an LCD 9" screen from AliExpress, connected to the HDMI that doesn't support audio, so I have to connect the speakers to the 3.5mm audio jack
I fully expect the price to exceed 500$ this time around -.- As for myself, I switched over to Mini PC / thin clients a while ago. Way more power for what's basically the same price (or even cheaper) and ever so slightly higher power consumption.
Even though I have a two Proxmox machines already, I still use Raspberry Pi, Radxa Rock Pi, Orange Pi on my homelab. They play an important role like DNS, network management, monitoring, etc... I'll more likely stay on RPi 4, Radxa Rock 4. RPi 5 is interesting since my priority is booting using NVME, but the features of Pi 4 is enough, but again the PCIE in the Pi 5 is tempting.
Excellent, factually based summary with details and comparisons. Additionally, you kept a cheerful disposition without overselling. I understood about 30% of what you were talking about, and still found this fascinating. Thank you for doing the work of getting the data and presenting it in a brief but thorough and interesting fashion. 🤖
great video! I feel like this pushes me more towards the rock or orange pi since i feel like a built in m.2 slot is super useful and almost required for some applications nowadays and 2x is a bit too little of a performance boost for my applications, especially considering that there probably won't be a PI6 for quite a while. They already have better power delivery and higher voltage so maybe a more powerful variant would be cool in the future The lack of a headphone jack is also a bit disappointing.
I'm late to the party, traffic was bad, but you are an absolute madlad for hooking up a graphics card to the PCIe port. 😂 I'll be sure to tune in here more!
Instead of adding m.2 with 4xPCIe lanes, like pretty much every other SBC, 4 years later Raspberry is still stuck at a single PCIe lane with a proprietary connector. Huge disappointment actually.
I'm starting to question how many more Raspberry Pi versions will take for the lowest spec Pi to no longer be a low cost SBC. Because the base 5 model now costs more than twice the price of the first Pi.
Happy to see the Pi catching up to RockPi5, OrangePi5 and the many others. Would love to see a pi zero 3 with much more RAM, beefier CPU und USBC (like the Radxa RockPi Zero)…
@@kendokaaa Zero 2/Ws are finally coming back into stock. I don't know why rpilocator isn't showing it, but pishop has them in stock as both bare boards (with headers) and in kits.
Both price and performance are irrelevant to the pi. Your buying community, support, long term stability/ availability, documentation. And yes I know that like so many other supplier they have problems with availability. But long term support and availability means that they keep supporting older models for years and years and that is too many markets very valuable, far more than performance. Bugs actually get fixed. And they won't sell something one day and drop it the next. If you need to teach or build a product or long term science experiment that is what you want.
@@bzuidgeest I get what you're saying it terms of ease of use and reliability. There's a good reason the Raspberry is the mainstream option, however I disagree that price and performance are irrelevant. Price is never irrelevant, especially in the case of the Raspberry pi. In fact price is pretty much the main constraint they design the SBC around. And if performance was irrelevant they wouldn't even need to release the Pi 5 in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I'd always recommend the Raspberry Pi as an entry point for someone new to SBCs. Most of the time performance isn't your focus when buying an SBC anyway, but there are usecases where some of the competitors are viable options as well.
Im curious if the onboard wifi actually is more compatible with WIFI6. The PI4 chip will connect to 5ghz networks but it does not seam to like DFS channels at all. I have a WIFI6 router here at work and the PI4 will not connect at all to is. It actually does not even see the 5ghz networks at all.
@@JeffGeerling Check to see what channel your WIFI6 router is using. Only some of the channels are in the DFS range. My PI4 can connect just fine as long as the range is not DFS channels. DFS channels are 52, 56, 60, 64, 100, 104, 108, 112, 116, 120, 124, 128, 132, 136, 140, and 144 Mine specifically was running channel 120
This is certainly a great upgrade. I'm excited and ready to get one as soon as it lands. 5A power supply though? Wow i really hope it can power more stuff as it is getting a new usb c power management chip.
There are through hole components. Plenty of them. It's just that they don't protrude on the solder side of the PCB. These are still Through Hole as they require Plated Through Holes in the PCB. They are however not soldered with wave or hand soldering like traditional TH components but soldered during the SMD reflow process. This means they still need to be placed by those fancy robots. They also have to be resistant to reflow temperatures. Unlike traditional TH components.
My technical skills are such that you might as well be speaking a hybrid of Hungarian and Inuit, but I love your videos! Watching yours and Chris's back-to-back gives us the whole picture, and is a lot of fun. Can't wait till I can get up to the St Louis Micro Center to snag one of these (I'm a little bit south of STL).
Glad it's faster but sad there's not more in terms of IO... I was hoping to make it in a decent NAS with 5-10Gb network but that's not going to fly with just a measly PCI 2.0x1 I'm also never trusting USB to serve my storage Also new drinking game everytime Jeff says "We'll get to that later" :p
@@estusflask982yeah my hope was the pi5 would enable 1 nvme storage at >1250MB/s and 1 10Gbe network and a couple SATAs.. I'd use the nvme as cache and saturate the network... aaaanyway another 2-4 years maybe haha
Awesome overview of the new specs and performance.
👍
👍
👍
Nice video
Nice
Great video -- I am jealous that you got a PCIe board to experiment with! Very interesting that you can set to PCIe 3.0 in the config. So many possibilities here. :)
I think Red shirt Jeff may be at play here "Lets do this and see what happens" "NO Red shirt J.... oh wait it worked?"
Wow. It is nice to see you here too. I am a big fan of EC 😊
Wow you're here too, EC. Hello!
I think you should get one to play with too! You are the SBC guru imho.
I think we need to "take a closer look"!
You're the only TH-camr that makes a 20 minute video that has all the information I was looking for in a well presented fashion without any obvious bias towards a brand or product at all. Thanks!
You don't see a PI Bias? Blind much?
@@viewitnow3539 he pointed out competition on ARM and RISC-V. Deaf much?
The reigning king of Pi!! Dude, you killed it on this video. This had to take sooooo long....and wow was it worth it!
Hey Chuck! Just wanted to say, you got me into cybersec and I'm forever grateful!
Heh, it was a bit of a journey :D
It took so long, as people were probably hammering raspberry pi’s website, waiting for the pi 5 since 2022
how do you test stats on macbook terminal while booting the pi?its impossible @@JeffGeerling
Can it run Crysis?
The time and effort you put into these recaps is unmatched. Thanks Jeff!
Kiss as
@@omar10wahabwhy kissass? what benefit would they have from kissing ass? altruism is a thing, and supporting content makers means more and better content.
Absolutely! Jeff did amazing
So far, I've found this to be the best among the first wave of RPi 5 reviews. It goes into a lot of details without making the video long, repetitive and rambling. It's all to the point. 👍
Can't wait for this to get into the hands of the general public and developers.
I've watched 4 different (pre)reviews of the Pi 5 and once again, Jeff is gold standard for his reviews of SBCs. Thanks Jeff, you covered a lot more than the others.
Thanks for the great (pre)review!
No problem! I have already watched a few this morning but I'm beginning to peter out, time for some sleep!
it was SO comprehensive!
@@JeffGeerlingSame here. Commenting on yours @ 3:20 am. Glad to be retired for sleeping into the morning hours. BR 😎
it feels like we just got the 4, even though it was years ago
If you say so
There was a brief moment where I was able to buy Pi 4s off the shelf at Micro Center. Then 2020 happened and that was all out the window.
@@JeffGeerling They seem to be pretty obtainable at the moment, but that's a recent development of course.
That s because it was available just for huge companies and scalpers.
We never got the 4 though. It was vaporware for the plebs that it was supposedly made for in the first place
My Orange Pi 5 Plus has 3 full-sized HDMI ports (2 output and 1 input), 2 x 2.5Gbps ethernet ports, a full-sized 2280 M-key m.2 slot, an E-key m.2 slot for a network card, a type-c port with DP support, an IR receiver, removeable EMMC with modules available up to 256GB, build-in microphone, 3mm headphone/microphone jack, 40-pin gpio, and LCD and camera headers. The RK3588 with its Mali GPU is still much faster than the pi 5 and has a build-in 6 TOPS NPU for machine learning and memory options up to 16gb (32gb on the standard Orange Pi 5). I currently have it running desktop Debian 11 with KDE Plasma from a 500GB m.2 SSD with a Wi-Fi 6/BT 5.0 card. I hardly even notice that I'm using an SBC most of the time.
Oh, and it's in stock.
One thing I've always been fascinated by is the NAS builds with pi that you've done.
Ive felt that the previous pi models weren't sufficient in making a small or basic NAS but I think that will change with this model.
Id love to see more videos on the topic, it's one of those things I think I'll never get bored of seeing.
Yes i feel the same way.
I've been using the pi4 as nas for some time now.
I can always go for another storage-related video :)
@@JeffGeerlingdo the petabyte pi challenge again
yeah I had a pi 4 NAS and it had tons of problems, really hope this new pi works well.
Dear Raspberry Pi Foundation,
After being a dedicated Raspberry Pi enthusiast for quite some time, I have now officially become a "Rockchip Boy." It's not an easy decision, and I want to express my gratitude for all the incredible work you've done with the Raspberry Pi series. The Raspberry Pi has been an amazing platform for learning, tinkering, and creating all sorts of exciting projects.
But lately, I've found myself drawn to the versatility and power of Rockchip-based devices. Their performance and capabilities have opened up new possibilities for my projects and hobbies. While I'll always have a special place in my heart for the Raspberry Pi, it's time for me to explore this new path in the world of single-board computers.
Thank you for all the inspiration and innovation you've brought to the community. I'll be watching your future developments with great interest, and who knows, maybe I'll return to the Raspberry Pi family one day.
Wishing you continued success and growth.
Sincerely,
WurstPeterl
certtified RockChip Boy
Me too, I am an Orange Pi boy.
Orange Pi 5 is a very nice little board!
the rockchips are very cool
Well,rockship is still better for android support.
@@JeffGeerling Little board? Love how you downplay it because you are sponsored by Raspi.
I am beyond thrilled for the additional I/O on the Pi 5. It's wild that you didn't need an entire video compiling kernels and all that to get simple PCIe devices running in any capacity. I have a pre-order in for the 4GB and all the relevant accessories... Can't wait!
Great vid as always! All the info in one place and some nice comparisons.
I'm glad you made a video on this! I wouldn't have found out about this nearly as quickly otherwise.
i was gonna comment this!
Same!
Dito
The only thing I love more than the raspberry pi is Jeff’s excellent, comprehensive video providing us with all the info we need to know. I cannot wait to order the new unit ❤
I really think they made a wise decision by trading efficiency for price. The general consumer really wont care about the difference in efficiency at this level of power consumption. The Pi appeal always was about being the underdog, and still getting the job done for less than a family dinner out.
I get the feeling they got rid of the headphone jack for cost reasons too, but for me that's a deal-breaker.
$75 isn't a family dinner where I come from lol.
It's all about the cost now, that's where the competition is.
@@megatronskneecap same, but I guess that all depends on the size of your family, and the type of food. With an average family size of 4 people, and eating at a reasonably priced chain sit-down restaurant... you will probably be down for $60... +tax and tip... ~$80-90
@@jong2359 Welp scalpers have already got their hands on it. Pimoroni is sold out cold.
If only they crammed an m.2 connector in there, would have been absolutely perfect. But still a 2.5x improvement from the 4 is no joke considering just how capable the 4 is
like on the bottom side.... Where there almost NO COMPONENTS anymore.
Let's not push for this to be a full pc. The price is already getting a bit too high for what it's supposed to be.
@@pidojaspdpaidipashdisao572 All the stores i checked ARE still out of stock anyway, at least Canada. Gotta be like 2 or so Years straight at this point. And now they want to introduce another product? oof.
@pidojaspdpaidipashdisao572 honestly tho with inflation being what it is, the price might be more consistent than it looks at a glance (I mean compare it to the cost of eating out back in the day vs now).
If it had a NVME I would be positive about this release. But now they remove hardware acceleration of video, they still have those really bad mini hdmi ports, and it needs a fan and heatsink (why not just put it on as standard then?) That adapter will be like $40 probably for NVME, and make it like one inch thicker.
Great video and review Jeff!
Thanks David!
haha, i see new raspberry pi 5 diy flipper zero video coming XD
@@JeffGeerling will it ditch its weird boot loading and start using a standard bios at some point?
For arm there is a UEFI certification program called ARM SystemReady. There is a UEFI shim for this for the Pi3/4, it's needed to boot ESXi and Windows. It would be nice if there was a transition over that for the boot firmware.@@Caddy666
@@JeffGeerlingwill the pikvm work with pi5?
Thanks! Keep up the awesome work - you inspire us all!
Never had the opportunity to try out the pi 4, so the jump from my trusty pi 3 to the 5 should be quite the improvement for a home server :)
Wow, 3 to 5, that will definitely be mind blowing... just doing an apt update and apt upgrade is mind-bogglingly faster.
Same here, I can’t wait to get my hands on one
@@JeffGeerling Waiiiiiiiit one second right there does this mean that the Pi 5 can actually, reliably run games?
Still got a pi 1 on my shelf in a clear ish original case (2011.12) have see if it still powers up
Same here... never pulled the trigger on the Pi4, just pre-ordered the Pi5... my Pi3 is gasping for air now!! 😂
The ability to use pcie right from the board makes me want something like a SATA controller hat. Even if it's slow per port, the ability to run either dual HDDs or sata SSDs in either form factor would make for a cool budget NAS build.
At 2.0 it would be enough bandwidth to run 2 very fast enterprise HDDs like Exos, which are ~250MB/s. At 3.0, you could run 4.
wouldn't it be possible to have a bunch of sata connectors using a pcie to sata adapter ?
@@LtdJorge True. That single 3.0 lane is actually quite good bandwidth. I mentioned it being slow per port because they don't have to stop at 4 ports. An 8-port SATA controller could be used, but I think just 2 really fast ones or maybe 3 would be plenty.
@@neolordie: In theory you could have as many as you wanted, but you can't put more data through PCIe than it has bandwidth for. :)
@@jeschinstad oh didn't see the pcie 2.0 x1 lol, that's pretty bad
Really glad to see the Pi 5 having more PC-alike features natively like a power button, a PWM fan header and USB-PD! I'm completely fine with my Pi 4, but I'm debating whether or not I want to use something like the Rock 5B or the Pi 5 instead when I'm upgrading to a completely new system in the future. Probably just depends on what hardware connections I need at this point ^^'
Having dealt with both the rpi4 and rock pi stuff for work for a while in sizable numbers the real difference is community, stability and support. The non rpi stuff looks great on paper but the downsides rapidly became apparent as soon as something didnt work as expected.
This is what I worried about as well, having used none of them so far. - It's just because the Raspberry Pi has become THE one in the kind of category of computers that it's so much more widely used and known, automatically increasing the support for it. - I almost decided to just bypass the RPi as "my first one" to a more powerful board, but then I didn't know if I would understand the lesser-known ones. Besides, I should have tried at least one RPi. Probably always useful for something.
preciseley the community makes the difference they do all the legwork they support it they adopt it its just a shame that for the pi 4 pi foundation decided to favour its industry partners wou would keep anything they do with it under nda and tight restrictions and contribute NOTHING back to the community
@@michaelmonstar4276 This very much depends on your use case. I feel a lot of people buy these micro PCs and they end up in the cupboard, own personal one certainly has. Unless you have a specific use case (GPIO etc)a normal computer / laptop or something like a intel NUC or gigbyte brix is often a better option.
True, but if all your using one for is low power basic home computer/TV streaming device, the rivals are fine for that.
Agreed! I’ll take well supported but not as performant any day. When you start hitting $130-$180 I start questioning the value vs. just running VMs on larger and way more performant hardware at that point.
This will all be amazing if it actually becomes available at the MSRP.
Pi Hut has preorders open already!
*which will be sold out "should" they start shipping next month (tomorrow)*@@TheDigitizedSignPainter
This was so thorough. Usually for stuff like this I’d have to go and find the answers to my questions individually. You’ve covered everything I needed to know all in one video. Well done!
The reason why you can't playback 4K video is likely because the browser on the pi is forcing the x264 codec which is easier to decode, youtube doesn't offer the 4K data stream in this codec. Same thing happens when you install the x264ify extension on your pc.
I think it might be time for me to get a new pie haha, I have a pi 1
Good lord, the Pi 1 is so obnoxiously slow looking back on it from the lens of today. The OG pi found it's most use for me as a VPN server before I had a comprehensive homelab.
dont waste your money on rpi or any sbc, get a secondhand mini pc's like hp or dells, its old but its still more powerful than these sbcs, plus the power consumption difference is negligible.
@@jongskie777what abort GPIO then?
@@mikkelkirketerp4884honestly, how many GPIO use cases do people use Pi’s for. Most of those can be solved with a far cheaper Arduino or similar.
@@mikkelkirketerp4884usb to gpio maybe?
Am premptively buying a POE switch before the hat comes out, but does anyone know what would the watt needed for it or compatible models if you wanted to hook up 4 of them?? Would 30W per port be enough
Great job, Jeff. Really appreciate the comprehensive coverage. Exciting to see an updated version of the Pi too.
oh great now simple robots are putting the complex robots out of jobs now🤣🤣🤣
With the improved I/O, this feels like it opens the way to a Pi-based *4+1 port* network router/switch in a single case.
In my experience, this use case has never been reliable, due to a mixture of issues ranging from microSD card corruption, to dodgy UAS support for external boot drives, unreliable USB-ethernet adapter performance etc.
@@tomfahey2823 The PCI-E port on the board would let ya connect a 4x port NIC and then use the Pis internal Gigabit as the +1 though, no USB Ethernet adapters needed
If Jeff can get 6Gb on a 10Gb NIC that should translate to full 1Gb on 5 ports at least somewhat
@@tbthegr81 Yes, but that's not really an upgrade on the Pi 4 Compute Module then, is it? And you still have the problem of unreliable storage media.
This is why I was hoping for more PCIe lanes and/or NVMe, or at least eMMC support.
SBCs with a double port (for ingress and outgress) still are way better solutions usually. 8 port gigabit switch is a pittance these days, no reason to make it expensive in a specialised hat.
@@tomfahey2823 I've had extremely reliable Sata to USB operation and uptime. But did have to experiment a little with USB hubs as they would run for weeks then randomly crash requiring a reboot
Thanks - I think you covered pretty much everything. Hopefully the Pi5a or something will have 2.5Gbit network builtin, just hope they use something saner and more plug/play than that crappy RTL8169 chip
This was awesome to see, most important for me though is the improved manufacturing simplicity, fingers crossed it finally fixes the supply issues.
Where i am RP4 B is still 130eur on Amazon & 100eur on official RPI suppliers.
I'm not getting my hopes up
I don't think the supply chain issues had anything at all to do with manufacturing. This will likely reduce production line setup and operational costs and improve yields, all of which helps keep prices down, but if you've had any experience buying electronic components in the past 4 years it's pretty clear why companies like the Raspberry Pi Foundation have had supply issues. It's component supply that is the problem. Lowering manufacturing costs isn't going to make more components magically appear on the market.
In my country, local distributor is selling it for 300 USD. So bad.
@@ajaka002 jesoooooos well I don't have any 4 or 5 but I think I have a 3 somewhere I could send you for free if you want.
@@badger47-n3c Thank you very much, but I don't need it. I'm just here to express my opinion. that some distributors think that right now is still a mining boom and chips shortage.
$80 feels like we're back to "just buy a cheap NUC-like for a DPU" but for price and power reasons now too. The Pi has never been a performance monster, it's winning feature is software support for a low power board (courtesy UK taxpayer funding), but now we're at the point of effectively mandatory active cooling and 5w power supplies, the gap is closing between Pis and the world's most ubiquitous platform again, old and/or cheap x86_64 PCs.
@@ryecatcher25 Or literally any flavor of Linux under the sun. Used "Optiplex Micro" are crashing out at ~$110 maxed out with a 7th gen i7 and 16gb RAM, 4x the performance cap for similar power draws idle and S3 vs the Pi's idle and max, lower specs than that are reliably sub-$50. If you really need GPIO ESP32-S3s are ~$7 since China accidentally flooded out the market on those, their USB return speeds are fast enough to be used as a capture device, and they have almost the same GPIO selection. Putting the two together is eco friendly since you're recycling old hardware with minimal power draw, good for your wallet since you're getting more for less, and still getting all the features of a Pi.
I agree - if you are looking for a small NUC, there are better options for the same price after you factor in the board, the adapter, active cooling and a case. I also wouldn't print my own case unless I plan on using ABS. If you print a case with PLA, I doubt it would last long due to high temperatures causing warping. That being said, I loved it back when the Pi was only about 1amp. It could easily be run 100% solar powered and a battery when no solar was available. Now there are other alternatives for that market as well. It feels like the Pi family is not the same Pi that I fell in love with.
If the RPI5 would have launched a year ago it would have been huge, right now i feel like it is on the middle of everything because we have things like the RK3588/S and the Rk3566 covering the rear (The Orange PI 3B gives you a M.2 slot for as low as $30 to play around a single pcie lane). Even RISC-V is starting to put up a fight as the Lichee was already outperforming the RPI4. Not to mention AllWinner new socs that has a dual A78 + Hexa A55.
Most importantly you can buy those sbc-s while good luck finding raspberry pi.
Stay far away from AllWinner SOCs. In my experience, they heat up quite a bit and usually have bugs(looking at the H6 which had PCIE, but you couldn't access it. At least not with Armbian).
The question I think everybody is asking is why they kept the awful micro-HDMI plugs. They should have gone to full size. Having one displayport and one HDMI also would have been cool.
But in general I'm happy that they worked hard to keep the price reasonable.
Id liked to ser a display or mini display port, even could be cheaper because licenses.
Lenovo's thinkcenters have no HDMI and with display port is enough.
It would not only have been cool but saved users money and stopped a lot of e-waste from being created.
Yea, i mean, if they want it to be as small as possible, then why put USB-A instead of USB-C? And if they want the compatibility, then there really is no reason to use micro-hdmi... Its just such a strange setup...
These connectors are the absolute worst. Video out via USB-C is a thing, that would've been sooooo much better.
My guess is the weight of hdmi chords may have had a tendency to damage ports given the lightweight of the sbc. Choosing to go the micro hdmi may server as a breakway, cutting down the tendency of broke ports. However, that's just a guess. It's also easier to serve the part of the community that needs dual display options for projects dealing with a second screen given the size of full sized hdmi ports.
Going with two full sized ports would cut into the sbc's real estate and it would either suffer space issues for other chips and circuitry and or heat issues
This was a very informative and condensed overview of the new RP5. I very much appreciate your analysis that goes beyond "it's better." The why and how goes a long way. Looking forward to more of your content.
if the pi 4 had over heating issues and used less power then the pi5 what are the heat issues that the pi 5 must have due to that issue?🤔
Can you send me the link of the raspberry PI PCIe adapter you used in 14:23 ?
At the moment it feels like the only reason to buy a pi is the software support. The alternatives all seem to be lacking (usually only having a couple of distros available) whereas the pi had direct support from multiple distributions.
Given this pi only just catches up to the competition in performance and isn't much cheaper then if one of the competitors actually managed to get better software support they would be a much better alternative.
That's the problem, the alternatives never will, I don't know why but they just don't seem interested. You would think that they would want to jump on that but I guess it costs a lot of money.
If you don't care about all the GPIO and PCIe externals, and 3rd-party gizmos, then other SBCs work just fine. I love my Khadas VIM4 and it has 8GB of RAM
That problem has existed since the beginning and still the same today. Its why i gave up & just repurpose old laptops or NUCS for my home projects.
@@MrGamelover23 I’d bet that’s largely a fixed cost too, and that the Raspberry Pi can spread it out over more units.
The competition probably isn’t seeing a market for hobbyist SBC’s that split the difference and are neither the best supported (since they won’t match rPi overnight) nor the best performance value.
@@chrisg6091 Exactly this. The PI has lost it's way. It's neither cheap, nor a viable solution for most use cases. Why buy a PI when you can buy a celeron MINI PC that does more for less out of the box?
Very cool!
Starts at $60-$80... I really hope the shortage is over because that's probably the most any hobbyists will want to spend.
Those are imaginary numbers, sometimes I wonder why do people even bother with these MSRP prices..
It should be 39$ for the top spec, the pi used to be cheap..
@@spamuman To give credit to the PI foundation, you are able to preorder the PI 5 at those prices right now at multiple different retailers. While I agree it probably wont stick around, I was able to bye a PI 4 about a month ago from Adafruit at MSRP
@@25566 the demand rose, so the price did because the people making them and selling them know dipshits will pay for it. If you won't someone else will
@@25566 I do feel like they're moving too far into the performance field, and are losing sight of people who just need a cheap and not neccesarily powerful computer. I use Pis for home assistant, and a pi 3 is capable of running Home Assistant easily. I do hope Pi 4 does not get discontinued for a good while.
RP5 Salesman of the Year! Nice vid, Jeff!
I still think dropping the full size HDMI port for 2 smaller ones was a mistake on the 4b. I was hoping it could get support for dual video out via Type-C connector like they have commonly on docks. Heres hoping that they update the Zero as well because Orange Pi's version of it slaps HARD. I hope that RISC-V becomes viable in my lifetime.
They really should just make the USB-C port fully functional with data and video (DP), and drop one or both micro-HDMI connectors, and maybe have a single full-size HDMI. Sure, the dongles are more expensive, but they're way more ubiquitous. Maybe a special CM5/Zero could come out with a single USB-C connection for some real minimalist projects.
@@khyoyeon554that’d be really awesome; a USB C monitor would be able to provide a single cable for everything (DisplayPort, a USB hub, audio, full power etc etc)
In your lifetime of course?? It's reaching the levels of the very first Pis now
@@aaroncarsonomg I need that badly.
Looks like a great foundation for a pi500 computer: faster USB, SD, PD support, more power, southbridge chip, RTC and a power button. I wonder if this is really what they're after.
Hey Jeff! Great run-down! I really appreciate all of the testing you do to provide complete coverage.
Hi Orange shirt Jeff! This is a great summary. The pace is just right and no unnecessary details has been discussed. In the next video maybe you cover OS’s on the PI5 and the usefulness as a desktop computer.
Greetings from the Netherlands.
It would be great to see Raspberry pi to create a Pi 500 with this new hardware. I personally love the Pi 400 for being a console management PC, but it desperately needs additional USB ports and incorporating a pci into the Pi 400 form factor would be incredibly helpful.
same pi500 pleaseeeeeeeeeee. but with 8gb
I really don't think your use case is what they intended the Pi 400 for, but maybe you'll get lucky.
Let's hope that santa 🧑🎄 sends some elves over to raspberry before December...
A raspberry pi 500 really would be a nice stocking filler.......
My little utility Pi 400 would love the upgrade!
That would pretty much be a Pi 5a+ which is something I would want
17:23 how do you accomplish this? is there a toggle in the OS? i'm getting my dad a RP5 for christmas and I doubt he'd care if the USB ports had full power whats more important to him is the processor / RAM / GPU run at full speed.
This is one of your best videos, Jeff. I'm still a Rock 5 admirer for its 8 cores, but I'm hoping the price is going down soon. It's good that the Raspberry Pi 5 has the double of the speed for 5 dollars more. It will probably push the others to reduce prices and launch better models. The case is a cool addition, something that was needed. Let's see what will come up in 2024.
Yay, thanks so much for an excellent in-dept video, Jeff. I read the official Pi blog this morning and just knew you'd have some content ready so left it to enjoy this evening - really appreciate all the work you put into these!
Great video Jeff! Information dense but still nice to watch. I also like the Dutch t-shirt
Do you also have information on what happens to overheating when underclocking the chip? The latest Intel chips seem to show that temperature scales exponentially with clockspeed so maybe underclocking might be a solution
Awesome overview of the new specs and performance. Can't wait to get my hands on one!
We need to start adding the Intel N100 to those comparisons. Efficiency, video playback, io, pcie are very competitive... yes it's usually a bit bigger but there's tons of applications where the size difference is insignificant, the x86 platform is a huge bonus on compatibility (forget about kernel hacks for universal pcie compatibility) and the actual market price and availability have been more tempting on the n100s than the Pis.
They're like double the price of a Raspberry Pi 5 though
@@3nertia and 10 times the cpu power
If we are talking about intel's announced horse-creek, then why not. But anything based on x86-64, no thank you. This is like using a massive anchor as a door stopper.
- PS: Somebody replied, i should reevalute by presenting shiny n100 wattage numbers. That person somehow forgot to mention, that the n100 typically needs a big heatsink and even active coolers to prevent down throttling. The greater heat output is inherent in x86-64 designs no matter what workarounds Intel's engineers tried for over a decade now. The x86-64 complex needs more transistors for an instruction compared to the arm or risc-v isa. And more transistors involved for one instruction inevitably means more power consumption.
- Also that person somehow forgot, that intel tries to mitigate their isa disadvantage by producing their SoC chips at a smaller node than the pi and popular risc-v SoCs. In the case of the n100 the used lithography step is intel 7. The PI 5 gets produced at 16 nm and current RISC-V even bigger. So when you compare do it under fair conditions and don't hold back the facts.
@@paparansen Based on what?
@@aladdin8623 n100 consume 6w idle, 25w in use, I think you need to reevaluate.
Merci!
nice to see a new pi with most of the drawbacks fixed. this gives me hope the pi ecosystem will be around for a while. looking forward to the release. thanks for the breakdown!
I don't think they fixed the polyfuse issue, as the pi becomes more powerful and costly, they should seriously consider putting some form of over-voltage protection.
I can't wait to not buy one or get one at double msrp.
Let's hope they can ramp production quickly. The Pi 4 finally is back in stock. Sometimes. In some places! We'll see.
Amazing Pi-5 video Jeff! It's just amazing that this new board is twice as fast, while being more efficient at the same time!! Amazing!!
Great Video! Thanks for this Jeff!
The raspberry PI has lost sense of its purpose. It was supposed to be cheap. The speed was just supposed to be the icing on the cake, but low price so you could use it on projects that didn't need much processing power. was supposed to be the goal.
They still make the pi zero and other previous versions
It did exactly that, why do you think you couldnt get a pi for a while
Thank you Jeff.. you and Mr ExplainingComputers are my go to places for single board computing.. you guys rock!
Most complete analysis of the new Raspberry Pi 5 I found. Thanks!
I'm so excited to see that this costs as much as a second hand Lenovo tiny with 8GB of RAM and SSD.
Yeah, yeah the lenovo uses 35W and it's bigger, but at least it can be saved from the landfill and doesn't corrupt your storage since it also comes with the right PSU.
Run it off solar and it's a total net positive!
@@JeffGeerling off a treadmill. RUN FASTER JACK, WE NEED MORE POWA!!!😂
Wow the amount of computing power in the area of a credit card is amazing. My only complaint is very few of the accessories for the Pi4 fit the Pi5. Which means I'll have to buy everything new again.
0:42 I like your orange Dutch KNVB shirt, Jeff.
There's one thing I would really like to see from the Pi foundation to make the RPi5 worthwhile to me: actual datasheets/TRMs for the BCM-2712 and the RP-1 chip. The pi foundation has never done well here with their SBCs in the past, but the RP2040's datasheet is excellent, so there's some hope here. The various rockchip SBCs are a lot better here since you can actually get TRMs for their socs (even if its a little ... unofficial, shall we say).
I think the lack of that is more to external suppliers than the foundation. A lot comes under NDA. As you point out the rp2040 really shines on documentation, but that thing is completely made in house.
I expect to see a lot of documentation on the rp1 but I wouldn't expect much on the new Broadcom cpu. But I blame Broadcom for that. Even your comparison is too non official documentation which isn't a fair comparison
something that blew my mind while working as a contractor (on a Rockchip SoC) is that you can get them to make custom chip packages like stacked die, and getting a TRM *still* like pulling teeth. I don't even know if we managed to get one, had to reverse engineer register status bits for my driver until they sent screenshots from the 1000+ page TRM we weren't given.
@@bzuidgeest ultimately, it's the pi foundation's choice of which soc to use -- theoretically, they could go with something like a TI Sitara AM69 (that's just a random choice of an SoC that's well documented publicly by comparison, I'm not suggesting that they should or shouldn't use that particular chip). At least _some_ of the rockchip parts have officially accessible TRMs (although I think they're incomplete from a cursory glance, which isn't necessarily unexpected), and as far as I understand the rockchip parts don't have a crucial coprocessor that controls the boot sequence and is almost(?) completely undocumented.
that said, I do expect and hope for great things from the RP-1 as far as documentation goes. I'm hoping they also sell it as a higher-end microcontroller
@@ShinyQuagsire ouch -- not even under NDA? That honestly sounds worse than a lot of the other cpu vendors -- I'd assume that most of them would view you as important enough to give a TRM if they view you as important enough to do custom packaging for
No 3.5mm audio? Was this made by Apple?
Always good to have a few Pis on hand for the random pop up projects. Great video. 👍
Solid review, nice T-Shirt, keep up the great content Jeff!
One thing i would've liked them to do, as a different model option ofc, is adding a direct M.2 slot to the board. Considering how thin m.2 ssd's are, i can totally imagine adding that port to the back of the board. I'm just guessing it, but the size would barely increase with that, and an m.2 ssd is basically the same price (or even cheaper) as similar sized sd card. (Also ofc it had to be compatible with those older m.2's, not the 'up-to-date' Long ones, as they are longer than the board)
I will say exactly the same, also its not fair compare to Orange PI 5 its little expensive but offer M.2 Slot.
I just got a raspberry pi 5, but I have never used any raspberry pi devices.
I downloaded the software to a SD card but it's not powering on after I hit the power button. I am trying to use it for my 3d printer with a touch screen display. I can't figure out what I am missing or doing wrong. Any advice
Visita la página oficial de Raspberry. Hay mucha información y foros ahí. Empieza probando con otra fuente de voltaje (power adapter). Luego, asegúrate de haber seleccionado Pi 5 a la hora de instalar el software, etc. También puedes conectar algún dispositivo USB en algún puerto USB para ver si la energía está entrando a la tarjeta al presionar el botón de start. Saludos desde Mérida Yucatán México.
Pi 5 looks really cool, though I will be waiting for a while to get it. Already have 2 Pi 4s doing all the work I need so far. Looking forward to what Raspberry Pi foundation does for the Zero W series of Pi's.
Amazing video explaining everything. My main concern is if I'll be able to buy it. Everytime I try to get the 8GB Pi4 it is always out of stock except for places with scalper prices. I hope doesn't happen the same with the 8GB Pi5 😔
Raspberry Pi said that they are keeping Pi 5s out of industry hands until the new year, so hopefully that means a little more supply for the rest of us
@@_Jayanky_ thanks for letting us know, great news. I managed to order one a few days ago but need to wait for December to get it delivered. :(
ok i have a question, i have 2 power bricks of 12v-2a 5v-2a molex connector, another 12v 6a barrel connector, i powered the pi using the radxa penta hat and have seen a different reading for the VDD_CORE_A. The molex connector gives higher readings than the 12v-6a barrel. is using the molex connector bad for my pi? since the readings between the 12v-6a barrel and the official pi powerbrick ( 5v 5a ) have the same readings.
Here's what I want to know: have they addressed EMI with the Pi 5? In all of my use, there were SERIOUS interference problems running USB 3 devices, especially interfering with WiFi and USB 2 devices. I found I needed to use USB extender cables to use USB mice, and other devices like my Sonoff Zigbee controller board. Very annoying! It seems as though they have (quite rightly) put a lot of thought into making the Pi 5's power management more sophisticated, and I'm hoping that the EMI issues have been beaten as well!
I know they were working on some EMI issues with PCIe in particular (which is also probably one of the reasons I had some issues with my early prototype adapter). I think they found some shielding was necessary to help with that (on the cable), and I know they spent a great deal of time on compliance testing for RF/EMI (probably more than they used to!).
The lack of analog audio output is a huge disadvantage :(
Agreed. On the other hand, no more excuse to avoid using a proper I2S DAC.
Just use a USB adapter. It doesn't mean that the onboard one would have been any better.
Kind of, but the analog output of the Pi was always very low quality.
Removing it took courage.
Stop moaning and just take the new Pi already.
13:20 TH-cam is not blocking that option because you are on pios, but because 4k youtube is only supported via VP9 and AV1, which the RPi5 still doesn't have. TH-cam only supports h264 up to 1080p (and h265 not at all) for compatibility with old devices and devices that refuse to support the newer standards (which is why it's so strange the pi still doesn't support vp9 and av1).
For my admittedly casual use case the new Video Core VII was what made me want one. A more powerful and capable GPU has been a loooong time coming, the Pi4 always seemed a little mismatched with it's GPU.
Thanks for the great overview. From the pcb it looks like a number of components are still through hole mounted - the pins are just cut flush with the bottom of the board. This is a good thing though for sockets etc as they are stronger than smd mounted.
Excellent! Really appreciate the, "You should really buy this component for the Pi 5." advice bullets.
I'm trying to get excited, but I can't help but to doubt they're actually available close to those prices by the end of the year.
We'll see... definitely try to get in a pre-order if you can, some resellers are taking them already.
Pi was and always should be a teaching and learning tool. I'm glad they are able to find reliable sourcing because I was so worried that stock outages were meant to kill off the Pi. I guess specialty chipsets are meant to avoid future outages. I was looking at the schematics but I wasn't able to see if the COM chipset is the bottleneck like it was for the 3 and 4. Have they removed that issue?
EDIT: I'm assuming they will release smaller memory PI5s as you showed there are 8, 4, 2, and 1 Gig memory resistor points on the card.
The supply shortages were industry wide and not limited to the foundation. They worked hard to keep it going. Much of the supply went to business customers. Some people complain about that, but I see that as very good. It gives them a stable source of revenue to make us better boards. It also forces high quality os support because companies like stable software in their machines. And they also like long term availability, which again also serves us.
It would be interesting to see if the RP1 can also be programmed as kind of a co-processor, handling some real-time tasks (like stepping a stepper motor, or reading a rotary encoder signal) without the need for a real-time OS running on the AP. (Or if some of the PIO goodness also made its way into the RP1 silicon)
According to the documentation, the RP1 does feature two ARM Cortex M3 cores - now the question becomes: is it user programmable? :)
(datasheets.raspberrypi.com/rp1/rp1-peripherals.pdf page 5)
The Raspberry Pi foundation seriously needs to get their act together. 4+ years of development and this is what we get? Where are the USB-C stuff like DP alt mode, Power Delivery, and so on? PCIe x1 is a nice addition, but not as nice as many of the competitors offering x4. Micro HDMI in 2023 is a slap in the face. And there's even two? They're lucky their software support is great, because otherwise I don't see why they should even exist anymore.
For 4 years I have been crying that the Pi4 didn't have VP9 decoding for TH-cam.
And now 4 years later with the Pi5 they are still advertising H.265?! What am I supposed to do with that? Decode BluRay?
Where is VP9/AV1? And a single lane of PCIe with a proprietary connector instead of 4xPCIe on m.2?
Honestly after 4 years this upgrade (5A Power delivery, CPU upgrade, crypto extensions, experimental PCIe3, RTC) is nice but it's still a disappointment.
Thank you for this great video. I'm curious about the video encoding/decoding benchmarks using hardware-accelerated tools. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems you used x264 for video benchmarks, which is a software implementation of the codec. It would be greatly appreciated if you could also test hardware-accelerated tools, such as gstreamer with omx enabled.
The rpi5 doesn't have a video encoder block. You have to use software encoding and pay a large power penalty.
Nice video, tho I am worried there's no more option to get audio through 3.5mm jack, I have an LCD 9" screen from AliExpress, connected to the HDMI that doesn't support audio, so I have to connect the speakers to the 3.5mm audio jack
I fully expect the price to exceed 500$ this time around -.-
As for myself, I switched over to Mini PC / thin clients a while ago. Way more power for what's basically the same price (or even cheaper) and ever so slightly higher power consumption.
Even though I have a two Proxmox machines already, I still use Raspberry Pi, Radxa Rock Pi, Orange Pi on my homelab. They play an important role like DNS, network management, monitoring, etc...
I'll more likely stay on RPi 4, Radxa Rock 4. RPi 5 is interesting since my priority is booting using NVME, but the features of Pi 4 is enough, but again the PCIE in the Pi 5 is tempting.
Excellent, factually based summary with details and comparisons. Additionally, you kept a cheerful disposition without overselling. I understood about 30% of what you were talking about, and still found this fascinating. Thank you for doing the work of getting the data and presenting it in a brief but thorough and interesting fashion. 🤖
great video! I feel like this pushes me more towards the rock or orange pi since i feel like a built in m.2 slot is super useful and almost required for some applications nowadays and 2x is a bit too little of a performance boost for my applications, especially considering that there probably won't be a PI6 for quite a while.
They already have better power delivery and higher voltage so maybe a more powerful variant would be cool in the future
The lack of a headphone jack is also a bit disappointing.
I would have rather seen a single _full-size_ HDMI and one of the USB type-A ports replaced with a type-C port with DisplayPort/HDMI alt mode.
Orange Pi 5 Plus has full size HDMI AND USB-C with DisplayPort alt mode.
@Jeff Geerling
Will there be also Raspberry Pi Compute Module 5 versions available?
Good question! I don't know yet but I really hope so!
I'll miss that 3.5mm jack
personally I don't, and most don't use that jack for multimedia and even though the pwm quality of it is so low
The new Pi seems to always get released on nights I can't sleep.
Please try not sleeping more often!
@@JeffGeerling lol 😂
@@JeffGeerling Is this working? I the Pi 6 launching in 3 minutes?
I'm late to the party, traffic was bad, but you are an absolute madlad for hooking up a graphics card to the PCIe port. 😂 I'll be sure to tune in here more!
Even ETA prime mentioned wanting to see what you do with the PCIe port. Great addition to the board that one.
Heh, and my comment about the retro gaming was mostly directed at him :)
Love seeing the things he does!
Instead of adding m.2 with 4xPCIe lanes, like pretty much every other SBC, 4 years later Raspberry is still stuck at a single PCIe lane with a proprietary connector.
Huge disappointment actually.
I'm starting to question how many more Raspberry Pi versions will take for the lowest spec Pi to no longer be a low cost SBC. Because the base 5 model now costs more than twice the price of the first Pi.
Huge thanks for compiling all the infos in a short and sweet way.
Jeff Geerling: EVERYTHING you need to know!
He has a great channel.
Happy to see the Pi catching up to RockPi5, OrangePi5 and the many others.
Would love to see a pi zero 3 with much more RAM, beefier CPU und USBC (like the Radxa RockPi Zero)…
Considering how unavailable the Pi Zero 2/W has been since its launch, I doubt we'll see a new one for a while
@@kendokaaa Zero 2/Ws are finally coming back into stock. I don't know why rpilocator isn't showing it, but pishop has them in stock as both bare boards (with headers) and in kits.
It's not really catching up though. To be honest it's not even in the same category in terms of both price and performance.
Both price and performance are irrelevant to the pi. Your buying community, support, long term stability/ availability, documentation. And yes I know that like so many other supplier they have problems with availability. But long term support and availability means that they keep supporting older models for years and years and that is too many markets very valuable, far more than performance. Bugs actually get fixed. And they won't sell something one day and drop it the next. If you need to teach or build a product or long term science experiment that is what you want.
@@bzuidgeest I get what you're saying it terms of ease of use and reliability. There's a good reason the Raspberry is the mainstream option, however I disagree that price and performance are irrelevant.
Price is never irrelevant, especially in the case of the Raspberry pi. In fact price is pretty much the main constraint they design the SBC around.
And if performance was irrelevant they wouldn't even need to release the Pi 5 in the first place.
Don't get me wrong, I'd always recommend the Raspberry Pi as an entry point for someone new to SBCs. Most of the time performance isn't your focus when buying an SBC anyway, but there are usecases where some of the competitors are viable options as well.
Im curious if the onboard wifi actually is more compatible with WIFI6. The PI4 chip will connect to 5ghz networks but it does not seam to like DFS channels at all. I have a WIFI6 router here at work and the PI4 will not connect at all to is. It actually does not even see the 5ghz networks at all.
I haven't had an issue but only tested on an ASUS and a Netgear AP
@@JeffGeerling Check to see what channel your WIFI6 router is using. Only some of the channels are in the DFS range. My PI4 can connect just fine as long as the range is not DFS channels.
DFS channels are 52, 56, 60, 64, 100, 104, 108, 112, 116, 120, 124, 128, 132, 136, 140, and 144
Mine specifically was running channel 120
This is certainly a great upgrade. I'm excited and ready to get one as soon as it lands. 5A power supply though? Wow i really hope it can power more stuff as it is getting a new usb c power management chip.
There are through hole components. Plenty of them. It's just that they don't protrude on the solder side of the PCB. These are still Through Hole as they require Plated Through Holes in the PCB. They are however not soldered with wave or hand soldering like traditional TH components but soldered during the SMD reflow process. This means they still need to be placed by those fancy robots. They also have to be resistant to reflow temperatures. Unlike traditional TH components.
My technical skills are such that you might as well be speaking a hybrid of Hungarian and Inuit, but I love your videos! Watching yours and Chris's back-to-back gives us the whole picture, and is a lot of fun. Can't wait till I can get up to the St Louis Micro Center to snag one of these (I'm a little bit south of STL).
Glad it's faster but sad there's not more in terms of IO... I was hoping to make it in a decent NAS with 5-10Gb network but that's not going to fly with just a measly PCI 2.0x1
I'm also never trusting USB to serve my storage
Also new drinking game everytime Jeff says "We'll get to that later" :p
I use Orange Pi 5 Plus as a NAS. Has 2,000MB/s NVME and dual 2.5Gb ethernet.
@@estusflask982yeah my hope was the pi5 would enable 1 nvme storage at >1250MB/s and 1 10Gbe network and a couple SATAs.. I'd use the nvme as cache and saturate the network... aaaanyway another 2-4 years maybe haha