Worth the Upgrade? My Thoughts on Capture One 22
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ธ.ค. 2021
- Finally! Capture One 22 adds HDR merging and panoramic image stitching!
It's the tools we C1 users have been waiting FOREVER for them to include... but is it worth the wait? And if you own previous versions, should you upgrade or look elsewhere?
In today's video, I talk about the new HDR tool and candidly give you my thoughts on this tool and what I would like to see from companies like Capture One.
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Oh dear John. I was thinking of getting Capture One for Christmas. You've just saved me £300, thanks !
Yup, I’m a Nikon shooter and I get these noise and jagged lined artifacts as well! On the up-side I noticed that C1 HDR manage to handle potential ghosting really well, compared to other software I use. I have no doubt that C1 will iron out these teething problems very soon. Hope I’m right!?
Very good videos! It would be great to have more videos like this! Great channel!
Thanks, Raul!
Nice and honest comments. I was wondering about getting the 22 version as I was really missing these 2 features but now I am a bit down. I think I'll wait until the improve this.
I think waiting is a good idea 👍
I am on C1 21, first time since 2016 I have not upgraded, nothing in 22 that would tempt me. Still love Capture One though.
Big fan of Capture One and thank you for a very honest appraisal here. There are also ghosting issues.
Thank you. You are correct. I sent samples off to C1 showing the artifacts and ghosting issues. Especially in skies with cloud movement. Hope they get a fix quick.
Good, balanced review of the feature mate. I'm a Fuji X user as well and found the same issues. For me I prefer to use Aurora HDR because the feature set is impressive and you can open several raws straight from Capture One very quickly. You just need to be careful that it doesn't end up looking like a cartoon 🤣👍🏻
I agree and have used Aurora HDR for some really challenging merges which gave me a good base image to work from. Photomatix works well with C1 too, and only produces a single tiff file, unlike Aurora.
You did put your statements with zero malice and total honesty and when I updated I really wasn’t impressed either and I’m a nut for this software. I do think with enough input they will improve and judging from past experience they do seem to listen so have faith as I will that it will get better. I have alternate software for hdr anyhow so I will have faith.
Hi John! Thank you for your effort and great review :) One question - do you know if there is a Workflow for tethered bracketing? Thank you 🙏
I do know that with C1 (desktop or iPad) you can shoot tethered and capture an HDR bracket. However, with Fuji cameras, you have to make sure your camera is in the AE bracket mode and you need to trip the shutter from the camera to capture the sequence. For some reason, you can’t do that from the tethered workstation.
You can do tethered bracketing with CamRanger. Either from the camera or the iPad/laptop.
As an architectural photographer I too was looking forward to the HDR feature in CaptureOne and was surprised to see the minimal UI for the tool. With my XT4 however, I am not getting the artifacting but I think Lightroom gives me better results (so far).
Glad to hear you’re not having the artifacts with the XT4. Hope they work quick to update the tool to eliminate the artifacts and give us more control over ghosting and whatnot.
Thank you for the honest test. Unfortunately there are not many who also tell the chess passages. Most fear that they will not get enough affiliate links. It's a shame how so many TH-camrs argue, for me, that they could recruit barkers or at Media shop on TV. Many are something like paid Lobisists - and I mean that in a negative sense. Thank you for your honesty!
You’re welcome. Honesty is one of those things I’m known for… even when it hurts.
I saw that kind of artifacts in HDR images produced by Capture 1 HDR. The best way to see them is to export the image into PSD file, open it with Photoshop, convert to Lab color space and calculate the difference between "a" and "b" channel. I saw bright one pixel-wide line along high vertical high contrast edges of in the image. If you do the same with one of the original images, there is no line like that. So it looks like there is a bug in the math somewhere, which shifts one color relative to another by one pixel horizontally.
So much unnecessary work, C1 has disappointed.
Great review! Just subscribed to your channel. I am in the same boat with C1 merge tool. I am shooting with the GFX 100S and XT4 and I have a question for you… I am actually seeing lens barrel distortion when I create a merged file that is not present in the raw files. I cannot figure out how that could possibly be happening and was wondering if you ever encountered this?
Thanks! Yes, I see that too. Looking at the info on C1’s website, it seems as if some lens profiles are not supported when doing the merge. Sadly this means there’s no reason for most to use the option until they update it.
Just doing a test of the new HDR with a shoot, I am only shooting with a Canon 6D (20MP), not noticing any artefacting, but have noticed a few bad edges/borders between bright and dark areas just turn into jagged black 'cracks', especially near the edges of downlights in interior ceilings etc. I think I've also been noticing jagged lines between light/dark areas in general, like window frames etc. And the 'darker' version of the windows (exterior view) that it should pull from the darker (-2.0ev) frame aren't that dark at all, it's like it pulls it from the 'normal' frame (+0.0ev). I love the concept, really good to not have to leave Capture One to get a HDR to be able to edit with C1's great RAW editing tools... but it's not quite there yet. I think it's great that people like yourself feel comfortable giving honest feedback, feedback the company needs to hear to improve a big feature that's clearly unpolished at this stage. And for the prices Capture One Charges for a 'new' product release/ongoing subscription... it should be working WAY better at launch IMHO.
I'd like to add, that I do like the more natural 'look' it is heading down the path of (compared to other HDR software), besides the jagged lines on edges of light/dark areas like window frames (REALLY noticeable on many more images now), and the inability to have any control at all over how the HDR is created (as a bare minimum there should be a 3 way slider of how much from each image is used?), I do think that they'll "get there" with a much more refined product. But that needs to happen very quickly, like updates/fixes for the HDR stuff within a couple of weeks, not months. It's a bad look to leave a half-baked product hanging out there as a major part of a major release.
thanks for saving me a lot of time and frustration. I use Aurora for HDR. It is not great either... I am eager to learn... what is the best software tool for doing HDR merging? Is it lightroom? Also, does anyone know what the HDR image editing people in Vietnam and India use? I will continue to use them because I cannot afford the time it takes for post-production. But for the one-offs that i need to turn around in a matter of less than an hour, I would love to know what tool they use so I can do this myself for small, quick turnaround of an HDR image.
You’re welcome!
I too prefer to outsource this type of thing now. Saves me time. If you’re wanting to do it yourself, use LR/PS hdr tools to get your merge done, then tweak the image to taste, and then mask in your highlights/ window views.
Hi one more thing, Aurora has a batch HDR process. I can not see it in the C1. Is C1 do the batch HDR? Also, panorama stitching in C1 and PTGUi has a different purpose. C1 is stitched to make wider still photos, PTGUi does it for 360 pano.
There’s no batch in C1. At least not at this time. Aurora does a decent job. But I still prefer how things look when I manually blend my exposures.
If I were doing real estate, I think I would outsource the editing. 😉
I watched both this video and the one posted by Todd Dominey on his website. I've tested a couple of series each for both the HDR and Pano actions recently shot with my Canon 5D4, and I'm not seeing any artifacts or problems you and Todd have described. I wonder if it has anything to do with the differences in the sensor format and image resolution? They are: Canon R5 .CR3 @ 45MP, Fuji GFX100S .RAF @ 102MP versus my Canon 5D4 .CR2 @ 30MP.
That’s possible, but shouldn’t be an issue with a paid-for upgrade. I’ve tested with my Nikon and other Fujifilm files and get similar results. Could be a hardware issue, but I have the latest M1 Max with 64gb of ram… so I’m at a loss.
I agree !! i didnt uprade at this time...! I'll see in the future^^ JF
Good advice to hear just before buying the license. If not this program then what would you recommend as a better alternative?
Thanks for the comment and question, Joel. As I stated in my video, C1 still produces the highest quality images. It’s just their HDR merge feature is lacking and limited. If you absolutely need an automated HDR feature, then I would use Lightroom and or Adobe Bridge + Photoshop.
When I need automatic HDR with some control, I use C1 to process my images to taste, then I will either highlight those images and merge to HDR with Photomatix or Aurora HDR.
I’m still bummed about C1’s implementation of HDR, and really hope they improve it soon.
The latest updates to v22 make it more tempting to suggest. But again, if you’re workflow requires an automated solution to HDR, then I would wait. If not, then don’t hesitate to get v22. 👍
Sorry to say that I've had the exact same experience regarding artifacts using C1 22 HDR merge. I shoot Sony, so this is not just a problem with Fuji RAWs. I just did an AB test with Lightroom to confirm that C1 22 really cannot compete on HDR merges. As you say, it's not ready for prime time. Hard to comprehend how the company can expect users to pay for a stand alone license without future updates to fix this is. I'm a longtime C1 user so am definitely hoping they get it together.
Agreed. It’s really upsetting to have paid for a full upgrade to have a “dot” update that isn’t even fully baked.
I'm a Sony guy and in my testing I experienced quite bad artefacts such as noise and halos. Disappointing.
@@lighthousephoto7143 thanks for confirming it isn’t only a Fujifilm issue. 👍
thnx
I use Aurora for HDR. Works fine.
As a non professionnel, and a Fuji user, I recently decided not to upgrade to Capture One 22, considering what's new in Capture One vs the price of the upgrade... . I made tests with the recent versions of Affinity Photo. And I really think that I don't need Capture One anymore. Or at least a higher version.
Affinity photo is not good for RAW developing and composition.
Thanks for the review, John! Actually, I've found it while searching for info about the other problem with C1 HDR that you didn't mention - so might be you have a solution - or this will be an addition. The problem is: my HDR images keeps having different distortion correction than the other images, and _sometimes_ I can't even sync it to be able to blend them together in PS, no matter how I try. Sometimes deactivating lens correction does help, sometimes no. Strange. Canon EOS R with EF 17-40.
Interesting… I’ve not experienced this issue and haven’t heard anyone else mention it. If I were you, I’d send those files to C1 tech support and also post your findings in the forum. The more noise we make, the more they’ll hopefully have a fix.
If you want, feel free to email me a link to your raw files and I’ll have a look this week. You can email me through my website. 👍
@@JohnMagnoski thanks, John, I’m going to try a couple more things tomorrow, if it doesn’t clear this up, I’ll go further - will let you know
Interesting vid but worrying for commercial work. I read that C1 recommends shoot 3 images bracketed with 2.0 EV between each image. Did you try this?
I’ve tried their suggestions as well. And while in some situations the merged image is better, it still exhibits some of the issues I pointed out. Sadly, it’s still not fully baked in my opinion.
@@JohnMagnoski Thanks i guess it's still early days for this function on C1. I like C1 because of the stable tethering to my GFX or Sony. So will carry out quick C1 - HDR merge on location to identify any major problems. Then could play around with alternative software back in the studio. Could use Photomatix plugin or Aurora in C1 or import all files into LR CC or PS. At least you would have left the venue knowing that the files could HDR merge. Unfortunately just an extra step of work!
@@kitminlee9169 Unfortunate, but I think so too. While it takes longer, I still find that manually blending to be the best way to handle things. I was at least hoping to use this for proofing, but in my use it isn't even suitable for that.
I use the fuji x system. Yes fujifilm simulations are not possible. I did not see the artifacts yet. But after searching for the results of a panorama stich after closing down capture one I stopped. The results of a panorama stich (dng file) is not presented automatically in the browser of Capture One , after closing down Capture One. But the result is in the directory in my windows system and in the all photos map in Capture One. Nit a place you kind off expect. I have to import that dng file before further processing. Strange 😒😒
I use your workflow for panoramic blending.
Sorry to hear that my friend. It’s insane and sad that C1 launched a paid update with this many teething problems.
Strange? Both HDR and panoramas appear automatically in the same directory as the original files both on the hard drive and in the C1interface for me. I’m on a Mac system though.
@@freetibet1000 Same for me, and I'm using a Windows system. There must be something wrong with the settings on Ruud Maas' copy.
Any update on HDR Merge with Capture One 23?
From what I can tell, there hasn’t been any significant improvement. Under certain conditions, the merge is okay, until you get deep into the details.
Still best to avoid the feature at this time in my opinion and use a third party program or do manual blending like I do and suggest. 👍
@@JohnMagnoski Awesome and I really appreciate you taking the time to reply to my comment! I've been using Lightroom and C1 but been trying to get away from all of these subscriptions.
@@auomi8762 Happy to help! I understand the irritation of subscription based services. However, unless you skip major release updates, you're not really saving any money.
It will improve the more feedback they get.
I’m sure it will. Just annoying to have a half-baked set of tools.
I have a strong feeling the next couple of releases will be fixing and polishing the HDR & Pano features.
I sure hope so…
@@JohnMagnoski same here. I just upgraded to 22 (on the subscription) and was hoping to simplify my pano and HDR workflow. Looks like I'll need to wait and pray the warts are burned off this feature. Since a lot of the marketing for 22 focused on these features they are probably feeling a lot of egg on their face from the feedback, and that's a great motivation for improvement.
I think the HDR tool isn't quite there yet, but I think it does show great promise.
At least it produces better colours out of the HDR merge than Affinity Photo on my recent night time city shots!
I agree and on certain images it shows promise. The reason why I, and so many others are disappointed is we paid for a full upgrade, but received a “dot” update.
@@JohnMagnoski Yeah, I paid for the full upgrade too.
But I'm still more hopeful than disappointed, at this point. ;-)
I was a Lr user now a C1 user but the HDR merged really disappointed me. On1 does a much much better job, even better than Lr.
Those must be bugs, there is no reason not to let you apply those presets to a merged file. Did you try saving the merged file exiting and reopening it and then attempt edit?
Sadly, the Fujifilm film profiles are not supported: support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/4410014730257
Scroll to the bottom of the page linked above.
I’m noticing a ton of noise with C1-22’s HDR. I’m using a Nikon Z 6ii. So much noise. Even when the images are captured via the day in good light… so much noise I don’t even know how or why there’s so much noise.
That’s really too bad. But thanks for the info. I think everyone should send samples over to the devs at C1.
Yup, I’m a Nikon shooter too and I get these noise and jagged lined artifacts as well! On the up-side I noticed that C1 HDR manage to handle potential ghosting really well, compared to other software I use. I have no doubt that C1 will iron out these teething problems very soon. Hope I’m right!?
I hope so too!
I haven't noticed any noise as such, but did see on several images an odd "sawtooth" pattern in the histogram and that can be accompanied by dithering in clouds, light auras, etc.And also cause banding effects when applying clarity. or contrast. Depending on the image, it might look like noise I suppose.
I hope this gets worked out soon.
I think Capture One will reach the current level of Adobe's similar features within max 1 year. Interesting though where Adobe will be at that time. It has also become less expensive per month to lease Lightroom and ACR and Bridge and Photoshop plus plus than to pay for new upgrades from Axcel.
I really hope so. But they need to make sure their updates are fully baked before releasing them. I’ve been playing with Lightroom and Photoshop lately and am pleasantly surprised at how much better they are compared to when I left them 3 years ago.
I really hope they fix this soon. I just left the Adobe subscription and Lightroom is the only program I'm going to miss. This only intensifies that. Capture one has so much going for it I hope they right the ship.
To be honest, the subscription isn’t that bad at Adobe anymore. Especially if you just use Lr. $10 per month. That’s less than what the C1 upgrade cost me…
@@JohnMagnoski it's relatively inexpensive coming from the whole suite. C1 offers free perpetual license updates within the year of purchase?
@@ShutterlabCreative that’s true, but you only save money if you choose not to upgrade C1 every year. To me, the subscription model wasn’t why I left Adobe, it was the fact that C1’s raw engine was (and still is) better overall.
@@JohnMagnoski as a first year C1 user coming from Lightroom I bought under the assumption HDR and pano stitch would have higher level of operability. My plan is to not to upgrade. Everything else about C1 is fantastic. So as long as they can uphold a level of quality for the new features in 2022 updates I'm a happy camper.
I use aurora HDR to batch process all of my HDR shots, I just choose the folder and it spits out all my photos in one go, this is for low budget real estate photos obviously where quality isn’t key, I’m pretty disappointed with this anyway, and I’m not a fan of capture one after I paid for 20, I bought a Panasonic s5 a few months later and found out I had to pay again for a later version…they don’t seem to treat their clients very well and have a very arrogant my way or the highway attitude
As a real estate shooter I'm disappointed I still need to jump to photoshop to do flambient blending when using capture one. Even ON1 allows layering images with luminosity blending.
Yep, flambient blending is best used elsewhere… sadly.
I think the cause of all the issues raised is DNG. If it offers another file type to save to I would be interested to know if the profiles etc. then worked.
When creating the HDR or Panorama, it only generates a DNG file. No parameters or options.
@@JohnMagnoski That's bad news.
Totally the same problem here. XT4 and 5 brackets 2 stops apart - interior and exterior - all kinds of weakness. 1. No film sims is a HUGE shortcoming. 2. The resulting DNG needs ton of severe adjusting to look anything like the HDR blend should, and Auto-adjust only makes some of the severe handles pulled some of the way for you, but nothing intelligent at all. 3. Artefacts seem to appear more when Blacks, Whites are pulled to max. Overall, useless tool. Manual blend goes on, sigh. Thank you for standing up for us John, please update if you hear anything.
It's a real disappointment, isn't it? I reached out to C1 support on 12/14/21 with examples and a link to my video and I've not heard anything... So yes, manual blending for now. However, I still say that manual blending is the better approach.
I’m Fuji user. I am really disappointed with C1 22 and have the same issues with HDR merge. This and the slow customer service makes me want to go back to LR.
I know how you feel. 😞
Has this problem been resolved?
Not that I can tell. I have much better luck blending manually or exporting TIFF files and having Affinity Photo (v2) do the blending.
M1 max procesor has got more GPU power mainly. I don't think that in capture one or Lightroom You will find any benefit compared to pressing on the first M1 procesor on MacBook Air. If You use video editing 3D modeling than Yes. Correct me if I am wrong. I have been learning Capture one to end the subscrybtion Jail with Adobe. But stil I think that Adobe is superior in many ways. That siad I like capture one.
The benefit of having the M1 max is the total ram available and being somewhat “future proof”. I have an M1 MacBook Air and can run C1 just fine on it, but with the files from the GFX100s, and the amount of layers I often have to work in when blending interior photos, having more ram is essential. Plus, I do some video editing and it’s definitely great for that.
I think the Adobe ecosystem is superior, but I still prefer the quality I get out of C1. Although I am interested to see how well C1 for the iPad works.
I have a theory that Capture One does life harder for GFX shooters, due to it being a real competitor to their Phase One cameras.
That’s a possibility. But the issues I’m having are with all my files (Nikon, Fuji-X and GFX). Plus one getting emails from other shooters that they too are having issues. Sad.
Sony shooter. I'm on a yearly subscription so I got the update, but these "exciting new features" seem pretty mundane for being the flagship reasons to upgrade. May need to go back to buying a perpetual license.
Another disappointed fuji user here. I've already paid up front for the upgrade....mmmm. I need to explore the film simulated JPG files to see if that's a viable option for some work using those. Not brilliant for me. Pano stitching seems better, but the auto level is, if anything, less than hit and miss - seems to work on a different definition of horizon to me! If only C1 had put their efforts in to sorting the keystone thing instead... but hey ho.
Yep… as I said in my video, I’m impressed so far with how far LR has come along, especially with Fujifilm files.
Sounds pretty weak, mate. Good video.
As of right now, it is. Thanks for the comment. 👍
I am sorry to see the problems here. I have already upgraded, and my first thought was that the upgrade is handled very clumsy. As it installs to a new folder (not upgrading the old one) you end up with two versions, and you have to manually uninstall the old version.
Also, it does not read the license from the old version. I bought my upgrade prior to the release and got a new license number. The installation process should be able to read the old one and check if it is valid.
None of these things is a showstopper. But it is unprofessional and clumsy. If the thought is that you should be able to keep the old version, then my question is why? If the new version messes with the database or files, they need to tell us. Apart from that, there is no reason to keep the old.
Fully agree. I’ve never understood their upgrade/update process.
Has Capture One addressed this at all?
I’m not sure. However I have had a little more success with using only 3 raw images with a 1.5 to 2 stop difference in exposure.
support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/4413050020113-HDR-Merging-Best-Practice
@@JohnMagnoski that's a great reference,
If it does Improve in the future
Would you make a follow up video or would you pin a comment here?
Absolutely!
With that said, I still prefer to manually blend my images. I’ve not found any HDR software that does what I need.
Was just about to upgrade from Capture One Pro 20 to 22.. I don't needed it.. It's a nice to have.. Will stick with Affinity Photo until fixed.. Thanks you for this.. I do agree I get far better results from Capture One than I ever did with LR.
As long as the camera you’re using is supported in C1 20, then you should be fine. There are other refinements in 22 that make it worth having, but those aren’t leaps and bounds above 20. At least not for me.
They have made some improvements it seems with the last update/fix, but it still has a ways to go. Manual blending HDR brackets is still the best option.
this did not come as a suprise, the software quality is in decline since years now. they roll out unfinished, buggy or bad designed tools with a lot of marketing fanfare and user keep hoping that they will improve it later which in fact does not really happen. they also ignore a growing list of bugs and issues. the keystone tool is now broken for years, the dehaze tool is still as bad as when released. I more and more think they simply can't get the best developers for photographic imaging to work for them or they prefer to not spent money on development resources to make their investors happy.
Thanks for your honest comment.
@@JohnMagnoski when you compare what other small developer teams have accomplished in the last years to c1 you wonder if they are in constant hibernation. after using c1 since version 3.7 I'm done with it , I have wasted too much time over the years dealing with all kind of shortcomings and bugs. the direction they go is to become the "pro" app for amateurs so everting must be simple now with limited control and this is clearly not what I and other professionals want.
This. This is exactly how I’m feeling right now. Although I am equally frustrated with Affinity Photo having promised a DAM years ago and they still don’t have one. As I said in my video, I don’t hate Adobe, I just want to see the smaller competitors unify in some way to put greater pressure on the giant. This competition is a win for all.
@@JohnMagnoskiyes it got very quiet on the affinity LR alternative and I would not be suprised when they have stopped the project as this market is already overcrowded . considering this it makes zero sense how c1 operates. delivering such an unfinished and once again buggy version will make user look for alternatives. masking is now a class of its own with adobe and for file quality dxo is the leader.....
Not too impressed with the new tools
Yep. Underwhelming for all the hype.
@@JohnMagnoski and I am a loyal C1 user. Upgrade every year
@@alsteiner7602 Same here. Ever since I picked up my Fujifilm Finepix S2 Pro back in the early days of the digital revolution. It’s part of the reason I’m annoyed right now. 😞
@@JohnMagnoski after all their tutorials using affinity for these tasks and round tripping back into C1 this is far far below expectations that C1 themselves raised in our minds. Their upgrades are getting less and less worth it and to have them mail this last one in...
Capture One has basically done nothing to improve the HDR and Pano. features. After splitting from Phase One in 2019 they floundered with poor management for over a year before hiring Rafael Orta as CEO in late 2020. Orta's vision seems to be trying to pass off sub grade improvements as the finished product, then moving on to something else and in the process introducing more and more bugs that, again, don't get fixed. And, on top of this they seemed bent on pissing off as many users as possible while raising prices to industry high standards. Both Phase and Capture One are owned by the same private equity firm, Axel, and their vision is profit before anything else. Orta is driving Capture One to a shell of it's former self and they are starting to lag behind the competition. After going to subscription Adobe did little in the way of innovation for years. Now, in the last couple of years they are starting to innovate again and Capture One is the looser in this. This from a Capture One user since V-7 and I love the product it was and still use V-22 but will not update or give them any more money until they change their ways.
Well said. It’s so frustrating to have been using and supporting a product for so long only to feel like the company isn’t as motivated to make it the best possible.
I actually rejoined Adobe last year to play with some of their new tools and I’m very impressed. I still don’t love LR, as I prefer to work in sessions now, and I prefer how C1 does Layers.
I’m sticking with C1 for now and will continue to manually blend and stitch as I always have. The Raw engine is still superior compared to Adobe. Although On1 is looking good now too.
God Bless!