This was THE expert to bring back for clarification on the alibi! Thank you Frank for enlightening us and Joe for asking pertinent questions! I await the quizzes.... 😬 😂
Frank~Thsnks so much, your credentials are most impressive as is your ability to explain things to those of us that lack understanding in cellphone forensics. God, how I miss the rotary dial phones.
😂I had to show my kids a picture of what that was, they thought it was unheard of when I told them you had to go to a SWBell store…to BUY a phone w a cord, to put in your HOUSE 😮 yes I’m old
@@felicia_in_TX omg, I had one input in a garage sale, a carload of chicks that work at a brewery (all college grads) stopped by, they laughed to the point a few thrashed around in the grass. Faces smudged with ad area & they took pics to send to friends! One called co-workers at the brewery & told them to hurry, come see what M has four sale.
If enabled, the device can record its GPS position at all times and keep a running record of where it was by GPS position. It is also uploaded to the cloud if enabled.
totally different from tower data. the logging data won't be uploaded until it connects to the net in some manner. BK must know this stuff. here's one: why travel to a deep red state to commit multiple murders? he must be aware of the death penalty in Idaho. if they're relying on tower data, they have nothing.
@@TrueCrimeWithTheSarge whats your take on MPD leaving out the cameras on stadium way and main/270 and bishop and main/270? those are the 2 most important intersections between moscow/pullman... magically they dont talk about them
Well, they do have a car leaving and returning to his residence, which the defense don't seem to dispute...but yes, it's convincing the jury that it's the same car. If it was his car he didn't report it stolen, nobody borrowed it, and he was driving it later that day, as he was captured on store camera. But also his DNA was on the knife sheath...so it's the totality of the evidence.
@@sara_387 they also have BK and the white sedan they tracked on video surveillance at the Albertsons. The defense can’t pick and choose what they think is good or bad with the tracking. That’s their trap they are in
@@colleen0229 not a total disaster if that’s what happens, but it would be a huge blow to the case. That’s why we did this show to discuss just that. We do mention it specifically
Yeah, later that day he was likely at the Park when his phone was not connected to the network. "Additional analysis of records for the 8458 Phone indicated that between approximately 5:32 p.m. and 5:36 p.m., the 8458 Phone utilized cellular resources that provide coverage to Johnson, ID. The 8458 Phone then stops reporting to the network from approximately 5:36 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. That is consistent with the 8458 Phone being the area that the 8458 Phone traveled in the hours immediately following the suspected time the homicides occurred." Note it was Johnson WA, not ID, corrected in another document. But in the night, prior to the homicides, his phone stopped reporting when he had only recently left his apartment and still in Pullman, so he should have had cell service at that time.
@@colleen0229 Well I guess the defense can argue that. But it's up to the jury what they will believe. The PCA states they have video of a car fitting his, and his cell phone leaving his residence at the same time.
The PCA was written without LE physically having his phone. This is a huge deal. If the phone’s metadata records GPS and they have corroborating video evidence of his car at another location that is exculpatory. If the metadata doesn’t fit, you must acquit. (Venmo app is recording longitude and latitude at all times in the background. Many other apps do the same, this is Sy Rays first defense case ever…how? why? The prosecution needs to explain how they cleared the 500 suspects in group snapchat text who knew of the murders by 8:30am, the fact 911 is not called for 4 more hours is f*cken insane, multiple sources have confirmed this knowledge hours before the “hysterical” 911 call, why “act” hysterical when you’ve known for 5 hours your “friends” have been dead? I have more questions for the police than I do for Kohberger. The judge who signed the arrest warrant committed a crime in this case, they didn’t have enough evidence for an arrest.
@@TrueCrimeWithTheSarge hey he might be a psycho mastermind, I’m not 100% either way. I hope the families get justice, everything being gagged and sealed is making us all wonder. Great video!
Fully agree! There's also the college students who are on police body cam just metres from the house at approx 3am in the morning. LE should check their phone data
@@CatacombMan Hey, he might just be innocent...keep that in mind....just because LE wrote it, doesn't mean its true and/or there is another story to tell..the true story - 4Chan Reditt is still something to look into for justice
@@TrueCrimeWithTheSarge I heard something interesting last night, that might end up being true. The defense expert witness Sy Ray is most likely going to be in line and in agreement with the FBI expert for the CAST cell data. I'm not sure if they know each other or what, but there is a high chance this isn't going to be a battle of experts. I don't know if this is true or what it means...it would change a lot! If these experts are NOT going to contradict the data. Will the FBI expert end up exonerating Kohberger this way...who knows.
Great expert and you asked great questions, Joe! You bring the best people on for the most fascinating discussions and we all learn a lot. Ive been here a long time and am always surprised you dont have a bazillion subscribers but its awesome watching you grow week by week! Thank you for the discussions and education!
How did LE zero in on Koeberger is still a major question mark. This case stinks to high heaven. Socialite Crime Club is Sy Ray's TH-cam channel, there is tons of info on his history with Law Enforcement and the methodology he came up with to help solve murky cases.
The PCA explained how they established probable cause. Yes, Sy Ray has an impressive and extensive background. It’s going to be the battle of the experts. Did you actually watch the interview? We discussed all of this.
Hi, keep in mind defense doesn’t give a time he was around Wawawai Park except early morning. Also the previous alibi disclosure stated he was driving late night Nov.12 into Nov. 13. As well, an alibi defense is not or shouldn’t be dependent on discovery since it’s too easy to then fabricate an alibi. However, the defense is using an ultimatum (threats) before disclosing more of the alibi.
@@camiburchett9602 Judge Judge has weighed in before when the defense have requested documents which don't exist. Or to give a deadline to allow the prosecution to obtain documents from 3rd parties who have been slow to comply. The prosecution can only provide evidence that exists...if it doesn't exist...
(Lurking Grizzly) Great discussion, very informative! I am constantly amazed at the criminals who carry their cell phones with them while committing the crime, and even when burying the body! I remember one case where the police tracked the guy's cell phone up in the mountains, the next day, spent about 45 min there, then went back home! Guess where the body was! BINGO!
I just typed out basically the same thing! 😊 It's crazy! Where is common sense? I suppose many criminals bring their phones out of habit, or emotions get the best of them in preparing to commit the crimes...
Explain why LE waited till the 23rd of December to file a warrant for Bryan’s phone if they had his number earlier like they claimed in the Pca? You can’t because Mpd orchestrated the case backwards.
With all due respect to the two commentators the opposing cell tower location results are not as different as suggested. Could it be that the phone was never turned off but stopped reporting during the descent into Wawawai park. On his return to Pullman BK probably used the same path charted by Payne on the map - essentially the left half of the ‘U’ shape, before being photographed in Johnson. For this to be true L.E. would have to have mistaken one, or more white sedans for Bryan’s car
If I’m understanding your guest, a ping signal can have a radius of up to 15 miles? Does K’s expert have him at a completely different location or within the 15 mile radius but not at the exact location of the house? I don’t believe in coincidences 🤔. You have the best guests Sarge!
If you don't believe in coincidences...then you are following the wrong story - there are a whole lot of coincidences with this case...reasonable doubt, no way did Mr. Kohberger commit these crimes
Didn’t the pca state he wasn’t connected to the tower when he was at king rd?!?!? I could have sworn he wasn’t on the tower dumps which makes me believe his alibi is true
I am not sure why i am so invested in this case. Probably because the gruesome nature of this crime, and a young PHD student with no background of abuse or sadistic/felony type pastime behavior. A murder of 4 in 8 minutes for a first time offense....I might be addicted to the how and why.
I’ve been following it for a long time now, watching both more traditional news reporting and particularly a lot of podcasts with folks with various background experience in such and in reporting. Based on what I’ve come across so far, if I was a juror, I’d be clinging to the “presumed innocent” side of things. I’d have to see not just more circumstantial evidence but actual hard physical evidence, and the many questions about other avenues answered. That’s just me though. As it stands now, I think it stretches credulity quite a bit (prosecution narratives).
Honestly if I was arrested for the murder of 4 people and my attorneys left me sitting in a jail cell for over a yr when I had an alibi, I would be looking for another attorney. This does not make sense. Why would any attorney wait over a yr to say " oh my client has an alibi"?
Once he was arrested and charged it's a process. Had the preliminary hearing been held he may well have presented evidence and case dismissed. However, the secret Grand Jury made that impossible. Just because AT may have evidence to exonerate BK the trial has to continue. No judge is going to release BK no matter if his alibi was iron clad but will be presented at trial so sitting in a jail cell for a year even with evidence of innocence would make no difference the process continues.
If one could access the phone's metadata, it would include whether the phone had been tunred off or not. If it was not turned off, lack of signal for the time in which the crimes occurred would tell us that the phone was nowhere near the crimescene, or else there would have been service. End of subject. What the FBI looked into, was the cell tower pings, which cannot tell us this.
Excuse me, but why would defense only be permitted part of information downloaded directly from their client's phone? What possible legal basis for that could there be? Why would only cherry picked pieces of it being used by FBI for their analysis which Prosecution plans to use at trial be deemed necessary for Defense to have? Are they going to claim that it would be an invasion of Kohberger's privacy to have all of his own phone data?
If the defense doesn’t have all of the cellphone data, how did they build their alibi statement and hire an expert who is putting his entire reputation on the line. They have it all directly from the company.
No one can answer why the suspect here, and his father, were allowed to drive across the country, approx 2400 miles, when the suspect was wanted in Moscow for this crime. If a murderer can just jump in his car and drive to another location, possibly committing another crime along the way, why cant LE stop the vehicle before it crosses the state line? Why let the suspect go and risk something drastic happening during the joy ride?
What did they have on him at that time? A possible car match and he matched the vague description by the witness. Not enough. He left Pullman before December 13, but they didn't have his phone records until December 23. His DNA was collected from the trash December 27, a match December 28. We don't know when the IGG match was made, but I've heard (unconfirmed) that it was December 19. But a IGG match must be corroborated with a STR DNA match and further investigation of the suspect.
we must be aware that the cellular system was never intended to track phone locations! signal strength data from multiple towers can only give a very coarse approximation which will be very weather dependent and will have multiple possible solutions(locations) simply because it was NEVER intended to do so. a GPS signal will compute a location of the receiver(phone) only if an app is running and the GPS receiver is turned on. the GPS will return long/lat numbers that can be logged (ie. Garmin) . the fact is that cell phone tower data cannot prove anything, only possibly collaborate. this case will be pure forensics. the first question to answer: is BK an interloper that was caught and made to fit the data? the next is: what is the nature of the DNA evidence and how many sources?
@@TrueCrimeWithTheSarge The reason I say this is because she wasted so much time on the GJ dismissal knowing that it wasn't going to fly. Then she delayed even further with the survey questions instead of clearing it first with the Judge. Then she said he was out driving late at night for his alibi then comes months later and now says he was at the park when all surveillance cams in that area would be long erased over by now, and there are no witnesses to place him there. Then she mentions a weed shop that we hadn't heard about before, so apparently that video was apart of the gag order which she violated. Then she makes assumptions and threats based off of her assumptions. Then your guest just said up there that Defense is playing a dangerous game.
@@marygoff3332 His attorney is a Public Defender used to handling small drug and DUI cases. She is not a private practice attorney. She does not make a lot of money. The only reason she is being paid as much as she is on this case is because she is being contracted out from another county because she is DP certified. The Public Defender in Latah County is not DP certified. Anne is from Kootenai County while this case is being tried in Latah County.
@@Pllm30you do realize a public defender is no different then a private attorney- same amount of college-same bar exam etc…. I know many public defenders who are also private attorneys- they do both at the same time-they like the public defender position because it’s guaranteed money!
The Defense can present any alternative theories they like-however-Kohberger’s criminology background is likely to irreparably wound his case. Everyone knows there are ways for clever criminals to game the system, but there also ways to expose the gamers. The Prosecution and experts will no doubt be prepared for this kind of argument from Anne Taylor and team. Evidence and Idaho jurors will prevail.
One if the docs has the Vin for his car. As far as I can tell no infotainment, no Bluetooth package, just basic blue tooth meaning you can play music and such thru the speakers but you couldn't control anything from the car. I.E. if you want to change a song or answer a call you have to pickup the phone. It also had virus xm radio which has some debate on tracking/selling data but there's no microphone or camera like on star models.
Even "identical" phones can be different if they have different firmware, different versions of applications, etc. One version of an app may store different data and in a different location than another version. Phone analysis and interpretation can be extremely complex.
QQQ If there are pictures on his phone of stargazing during the time the State say the phone was not connecting - wouldn’t the metadata show when and where the pictures were taken?
@@TrueCrimeWithTheSarge I don’t think Anne Taylor is withholding it - I think the DA is not giving it to them. He turned his phone over without knowing anything. His attorneys are saying he was never in Idaho during that time period - that’s what I’m getting from the defense. Having lived in Lewiston ID - it was always spotty cell coverage going up to Moscow - and dropping a call or even radio service was the norm. jmo
@@coffeecake1803 there are 3 reasons cited on the PCA on why there is no contact with the phone. The defense has access to his cloud for the phone - unknown the type of phone he has - he has the username and password - he created that , therefore, the defense has access to everything on the phone
@@TrueCrimeWithTheSarge I swear he had to hand that to someone when he was arrested. WOW! Thats interesting to know. I didn’t realize you get to keep your phone.
I hope he forgot some app data that can show his whole time line and locations. And they really go through all in search for evidence. Also if some data can come from the car depending what it's installed in it. In the car card aka b.box??
I think if (don't think he had the trojan virus unless any apps are allowed to use that nowadays) but that's for spy listening not maybe maps location, but then the phone is off seperated even battery you can eardrop conversation they have if the virus is Installed in the device
I appreciate the full explanation of the cellphone process. In essence factual data vs. hypothetically happenstance. Although LE puts together a sound story the timeline doesn’t make sense. Why? BK is the man and LE built their case around him over time. The DNA evidence is bogus.
Supposedly it can be done. "Pinging a phone sends a request for information to the GPS on the phone. The GPS returns the location within a range of 8 to 46 meters." I was reading a case where LE justified it's use because of exigent circumstances. "In a decision issued today in United States v. Caraballo, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit (per Judge Guido Calabresi) held that police did not violate the Fourth Amendment when they “pinged” a suspect’s cellphone because exigent circumstances existed."
Do you think it’s possible Bryan Kohberger, who had studied digital forensics, knowingly drove his phone to place A, left it there (suppose this is where he was stargazing) and drove to King rd, committed the murders, drove back to phonelocation to pick it up, realized he must’ve left the sheath, drove back to house (which is why he is at the house at 09 but is too paranoid to go back in). ?
Would the CAST (I guess it stand for cellular analysis….team) in their investigation try to reproduce the phone “trail” at the same time of the day with the same phone model to verify the subject’s story? Or is that too risky like the glove at OJ trial.
Imo YT needs to pull the plug on a lot of the Idaho videos. Daily, I see videos covering persons LE publicly cleared or “cops framed Bryan, DA has nothing.” Absolutely sickening.
Police always says people are cleared before shocking the public. For example, police didn't publically suspect Chris watts for those three days then boom, he's arrested. Understand that the info police release and the claims they make are all a part of their strategy. Also, read about the Adelson case. Police cleared Charlie then arrested him. Then they cleared his mom. After Charlie was convicted, they arrested his mom. When mom is convicted we can assume the sister will be arrested next. What police say publically is all strategy rather than information sharing.
@@marygoff3332 for the most, I am able to avoid the trash, now and then my iPad will go to auto shuffle or something, it never fails my hands are wet or I’m on a ladder, too far away to his STOP. Seeing the titles is enough for me. I’m appalled at the hatred towards LE. More astonishing - people pay to hear the ridiculous conspiracies.
His alibi says he was moon watching that night as it’s his new pastime, like separating his DNA tainted trash into ziplock baggies and disposing it into random neighbors trash receptacles post murders was also a new hobby!
When I looked at the locations named in the PCA, the time period later in the day when his phone again stops reporting to the network, I believed he was in Wawawai Park, possibly disposing of evidence, if he was involved. "Additional analysis ofrecords for the 8458 Phone indicated that between approximately 5:32 p.m. and 5:36 p.m., the 8458 Phone utilized cellular resources that provide coverage to Johnson, ID. The 8458 Phone then stops reporting to the network from approximately 5:36 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. That is consistent with the 8458 Phone being the area that the 8458 Phone traveled in the hours immediately following the suspected time the homicides occurred."
It’s because officer payne did the cell analysis- if he never looked at the other towers and cameras in all directions to make sure he didn’t drive somewhere else-then I’m dumbfounded
Yes, when it was powered on and off, when airplane mode was turned on and off, when Bluetooth was turned on and off, which BT devices were connected and when, when it was in portrait mode vs landscape, when the screen was touched, when it was connected to a power source...all sorts of data is logged by your phone.
What if BK dropped off his phone somewhere, out in the boonies, before the murders. And after he murders, he goes back to this place to retrieve his phone. Maybe bury the evidence there as well. Wherever his phone was, cant possibly play into his innocence.
@@colleen0229 true but the phone lost tower communications before he left Pullman. The pca doesn’t state why it lost contact but the cell provider can absolutely tell them why the phone lost contact. They are holding that back. First red flag of many. Once the signal loses contact the tower knows it it lost signal, the battery died, the phone was powered down etc. You don’t need a cast report for that info.
There is also a huge military facility in Washington called the Hanford Nuclear Facility. My guess is there is plenty of tracking in the area. And the DNA fails to meet the minimum required by the feds.
Putting your garbage in neighbors garbage he probably did because of animals getting into it and wearing gloves just means he was a clean freak I wouldn’t make anything out of it because LE went through the garbage and found nothing incremenating
Do you know why every person identified except one. Door Dash delivery driver probably has a dash cam,so that may be part of 51Tb of data ....? Will Sy Ray the knight in shining armour on the trojan horse be able to hack the 6 digit pin code for BK phone. Did BK phone slip into his keyfob pouch & loose ALL signal ? for two hours .. Just guessin'
@@TrueCrimeWithTheSargethe airplane mode disconnects phone from system, but system is still connected to phone so tracing is still possible, to my understanding. Edit: just not in a keyfob security pouch (Faraday bag). ....
Is it possible that BK left his phone at a different location then committed the crime then set up his camera to take a photo or record on a timer during the crime then went back to pick up his phone, I know it's a lot but the phone doesn't really mean he was with his phone all that time.
No because the state has the car the phone and bk traveling together- you can’t do that with your phone it would be obvious- unless he left it at home playing videos on loop in the middle of the night but even then the phone will tell investigators that it wasn’t touched or moved or moving etc
I appreciate your covering the basic questions and building from there. Good job!
Thanks for watching Terry
This was terrific and very informative. Thank you to both of you. Sarge, truly love the education and integrity of your channel!!
Thank you Chris!
This was THE expert to bring back for clarification on the alibi! Thank you Frank for enlightening us and Joe for asking pertinent questions! I await the quizzes.... 😬 😂
😎🙌🏻
Frank~Thsnks so much, your credentials are most impressive as is your ability to explain things to those of us that lack understanding in cellphone forensics. God, how I miss the rotary dial phones.
😂I had to show my kids a picture of what that was, they thought it was unheard of when I told them you had to go to a SWBell store…to BUY a phone w a cord, to put in your HOUSE 😮 yes I’m old
@@felicia_in_TX omg, I had one input in a garage sale, a carload of chicks that work at a brewery (all college grads) stopped by, they laughed to the point a few thrashed around in the grass. Faces smudged with ad area & they took pics to send to friends! One called co-workers at the brewery & told them to hurry, come see what M has four sale.
OMG I remember those as a kid. People don't have the patience nowadays to use rotary.😂
I could listen to you guys for another hour. I was late for the live but this is pretty good. Great interview joe.
Thanks for watching Brad!
Catching the replay, thank you! 🙏🏻 😊
Thanks for watching
@@TrueCrimeWithTheSarge yep! Thx for sharing!
This was excellent but ended way too soon! You will one day have 90k subs! It’s coming. 👍
Thanks for your support Keeping it real!
Very informative, thank you !!
If enabled, the device can record its GPS position at all times and keep a running record of where it was by GPS position. It is also uploaded to the cloud if enabled.
totally different from tower data. the logging data won't be uploaded until it connects to the net in some manner.
BK must know this stuff. here's one: why travel to a deep red state to commit multiple murders? he must be aware of the death penalty in Idaho.
if they're relying on tower data, they have nothing.
Correct
Thank you, Sarge
Thanks for watching Kay
props for actually reading the PCA!!!!
😁
@@TrueCrimeWithTheSarge whats your take on MPD leaving out the cameras on stadium way and main/270 and bishop and main/270? those are the 2 most important intersections between moscow/pullman... magically they dont talk about them
This was an excellent show!
Thanks for watching
Great show Joe! Thanks!
Thanks for your support too!
So awesome to have retired LE giving us unbiased, factual info & explanations rather than the outlandish crap out here.
So why is the prosecution still withholding the complete CAST report?
Did you even watch the video?
How do they know the car seen driving around close to the house is Bryan Kohberger’s and how would they know who was in the car?
They don’t know for sure. I mentioned that in the video today - all they have is a white vehicle with no front plate - totally circumstantial
Well, they do have a car leaving and returning to his residence, which the defense don't seem to dispute...but yes, it's convincing the jury that it's the same car.
If it was his car he didn't report it stolen, nobody borrowed it, and he was driving it later that day, as he was captured on store camera.
But also his DNA was on the knife sheath...so it's the totality of the evidence.
@@sara_387 they also have BK and the white sedan they tracked on video surveillance at the Albertsons. The defense can’t pick and choose what they think is good or bad with the tracking. That’s their trap they are in
@@TrueCrimeWithTheSargethe state also married the Elantra the phone and bk- if the cell phone data is wrong- game over!
@@colleen0229 not a total disaster if that’s what happens, but it would be a huge blow to the case. That’s why we did this show to discuss just that. We do mention it specifically
Omg I can’t believe I missed the live! I’m so sorry but watching the replay
No worries! The replay crew is awesome too!
Per Trip Advisor review, Wawawai Park has no cell service available in that area.
She has no evidence placing him in the park during those hours. They say it, but no evidence.
Yeah, later that day he was likely at the Park when his phone was not connected to the network.
"Additional analysis of records for the 8458 Phone indicated that between approximately
5:32 p.m. and 5:36 p.m., the 8458 Phone utilized cellular resources that provide coverage to
Johnson, ID. The 8458 Phone then stops reporting to the network from approximately 5:36 p.m.
to 8:30 p.m. That is consistent with the 8458 Phone being the area that the 8458 Phone traveled in the hours immediately following the suspected time the homicides occurred."
Note it was Johnson WA, not ID, corrected in another document.
But in the night, prior to the homicides, his phone stopped reporting when he had only recently left his apartment and still in Pullman, so he should have had cell service at that time.
@@sara_387 Good info.
@@sara_387 what if he actually wasn’t at/ leaving his apartment when Payne is assuming he was?
@@colleen0229 Well I guess the defense can argue that.
But it's up to the jury what they will believe.
The PCA states they have video of a car fitting his, and his cell phone leaving his residence at the same time.
I'm so glad to see this n how 😢 did all his analogy.great job !
Thanks for watching!
The phone is a digital forensic goldmine! 33:58 Awesome Q&A!
Thanks for watching!
Thank you for information
Thanks so.much 😊
The PCA was written without LE physically having his phone. This is a huge deal. If the phone’s metadata records GPS and they have corroborating video evidence of his car at another location that is exculpatory. If the metadata doesn’t fit, you must acquit. (Venmo app is recording longitude and latitude at all times in the background. Many other apps do the same, this is Sy Rays first defense case ever…how? why? The prosecution needs to explain how they cleared the 500 suspects in group snapchat text who knew of the murders by 8:30am, the fact 911 is not called for 4 more hours is f*cken insane, multiple sources have confirmed this knowledge hours before the “hysterical” 911 call, why “act” hysterical when you’ve known for 5 hours your “friends” have been dead? I have more questions for the police than I do for Kohberger. The judge who signed the arrest warrant committed a crime in this case, they didn’t have enough evidence for an arrest.
That maybe the new tagline - metadata doesn’t fit - love it!
@@TrueCrimeWithTheSarge hey he might be a psycho mastermind, I’m not 100% either way. I hope the families get justice, everything being gagged and sealed is making us all wonder. Great video!
Fully agree! There's also the college students who are on police body cam just metres from the house at approx 3am in the morning. LE should check their phone data
@@CatacombMan Hey, he might just be innocent...keep that in mind....just because LE wrote it, doesn't mean its true and/or there is another story to tell..the true story - 4Chan Reditt is still something to look into for justice
@@TrueCrimeWithTheSarge I heard something interesting last night, that might end up being true. The defense expert witness Sy Ray is most likely going to be in line and in agreement with the FBI expert for the CAST cell data. I'm not sure if they know each other or what, but there is a high chance this isn't going to be a battle of experts. I don't know if this is true or what it means...it would change a lot! If these experts are NOT going to contradict the data. Will the FBI expert end up exonerating Kohberger this way...who knows.
Thanks for keeping it real. Replay crew❤
Thanks for watching!
Great expert and you asked great questions, Joe! You bring the best people on for the most fascinating discussions and we all learn a lot. Ive been here a long time and am always surprised you dont have a bazillion subscribers but its awesome watching you grow week by week! Thank you for the discussions and education!
I appreciate that!
Thank you Sarge! Really interesting program . Frank and yourself make a great duo!
Thanks for watching!
Great live! Facts
Thanks for the Super!
How did LE zero in on Koeberger is still a major question mark. This case stinks to high heaven.
Socialite Crime Club is Sy Ray's TH-cam channel, there is tons of info on his history with Law Enforcement and the methodology he came up with to help solve murky cases.
The PCA explained how they established probable cause. Yes, Sy Ray has an impressive and extensive background. It’s going to be the battle of the experts. Did you actually watch the interview? We discussed all of this.
Hi, keep in mind defense doesn’t give a time he was around Wawawai Park except early morning.
Also the previous alibi disclosure stated he was driving late night Nov.12 into Nov. 13.
As well, an alibi defense is not or shouldn’t be dependent on discovery since it’s too easy to then fabricate an alibi.
However, the defense is using an ultimatum (threats) before disclosing more of the alibi.
I agree. The Judge should put a stop to this.
Judge should demand state to give discovery.
@@camiburchett9602 Judge Judge has weighed in before when the defense have requested documents which don't exist. Or to give a deadline to allow the prosecution to obtain documents from 3rd parties who have been slow to comply.
The prosecution can only provide evidence that exists...if it doesn't exist...
This is the best information on the Idaho 4 i have seen on the web great job gentlemen
Thank you for watching Randall.
Very Helpful Guest!! Thanks Joe
Thanks for watching Kacy
A Faraday bag? Oh boy, I haven’t even once heard this mentioned as a possibility. Great call! ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Yes, an excellent point and something to look for during the evidence
(Lurking Grizzly) Great discussion, very informative! I am constantly amazed at the criminals who carry their cell phones with them while committing the crime, and even when burying the body! I remember one case where the police tracked the guy's cell phone up in the mountains, the next day, spent about 45 min there, then went back home! Guess where the body was! BINGO!
I just typed out basically the same thing! 😊 It's crazy! Where is common sense? I suppose many criminals bring their phones out of habit, or emotions get the best of them in preparing to commit the crimes...
Not to mention Google searches.
Explain why LE waited till the 23rd of December to file a warrant for Bryan’s phone if they had his number earlier like they claimed in the Pca? You can’t because Mpd orchestrated the case backwards.
I can’t, but there are also 3 agencies involved that require a warrant from the DA
GPS WORKS IF ON IN AIRPLANE
On newer phones yes which I assume most everyone has
we came to see YOU,Joe
☺️
Unfortunately his car was the base model
Great guest
Thanks for watching CapeCod
With all due respect to the two commentators the opposing cell tower location results are not as different as suggested. Could it be that the phone was never turned off but stopped reporting during the descent into Wawawai park. On his return to Pullman BK probably used the same path charted by Payne on the map - essentially the left half of the ‘U’ shape, before being photographed in Johnson. For this to be true L.E. would have to have mistaken one, or more white sedans for Bryan’s car
We addressed all of that in the video
Awesome to have the links to the docs , thanks
Excellent! We also reference page numbers in the show if you wanted to follow along.
@@TrueCrimeWithTheSarge I wish I was able to join live ! Bases in Europe so depending on when you go live I can join :)
If I’m understanding your guest, a ping signal can have a radius of up to 15 miles? Does K’s expert have him at a completely different location or within the 15 mile radius but not at the exact location of the house? I don’t believe in coincidences 🤔.
You have the best guests Sarge!
It would be a lot further than 15 miles, but still opens the argument that he wasn’t near there
If you don't believe in coincidences...then you are following the wrong story - there are a whole lot of coincidences with this case...reasonable doubt, no way did Mr. Kohberger commit these crimes
Didn’t the pca state he wasn’t connected to the tower when he was at king rd?!?!? I could have sworn he wasn’t on the tower dumps which makes me believe his alibi is true
@@colleen0229 yes
I am not sure why i am so invested in this case. Probably because the gruesome nature of this crime, and a young PHD student with no background of abuse or sadistic/felony type pastime behavior. A murder of 4 in 8 minutes for a first time offense....I might be addicted to the how and why.
This will be a future textbook case and maybe even a USSC decision on cell data and IGG, so it’s a good one to be watching
Yes, agree. This case is here to teach us all something. Love your channel
My true crime with the sarge t-shirt is coming in the mail tomorrow! 👍👍 Another great conversation, love the guests you have on!!
Awesome, thank you!
Grizzly here:) on Replay
Thank you Angela 🐻🐻🐻
Thank you the wisdom you share!!! 🎉
Thanks for watching
Great show, Joe.
Thanks Brenda
Subscribed. This was great.
Thanks!
I’ve been following it for a long time now, watching both more traditional news reporting and particularly a lot of podcasts with folks with various background experience in such and in reporting. Based on what I’ve come across so far, if I was a juror, I’d be clinging to the “presumed innocent” side of things. I’d have to see not just more circumstantial evidence but actual hard physical evidence, and the many questions about other avenues answered. That’s just me though. As it stands now, I think it stretches credulity quite a bit (prosecution narratives).
Thanks for sharing. Most cases are circumstantial in a lot of ways with some direct evidence.
Here on the replay! Spring Greetings to all 🌻🌼🌺🐝
Thanks for coming
Honestly if I was arrested for the murder of 4 people and my attorneys left me sitting in a jail cell for over a yr when I had an alibi, I would be looking for another attorney. This does not make sense. Why would any attorney wait over a yr to say " oh my client has an alibi"?
Your guess is as good as ours. We brought that up two times
@@TrueCrimeWithTheSarge hopefully the trial will give us answers and closure.
Once he was arrested and charged it's a process. Had the preliminary hearing been held he may well have presented evidence and case dismissed. However, the secret Grand Jury made that impossible. Just because AT may have evidence to exonerate BK the trial has to continue. No judge is going to release BK no matter if his alibi was iron clad but will be presented at trial so sitting in a jail cell for a year even with evidence of innocence would make no difference the process continues.
He's in PC? I still think he is working for LE, allegedly
OP has never been in trouble for a serious crime, clearly
Replay Crew. Very interesting. Confusing stuff. Thanks Joe
Glad it was helpful!
It could have been at Wawai Park where they have no cell service or on the way there? I am asking is there service at the Park... ?
Some has said no, I have no idea, but there is a trail of his movements
What happens if a phone is physically left at one location and the owner leaves and returns later to retrieve it?
Always a possibility, but that doesn’t appear that’s the case here. They have the phone moving from his residence and returning
If one could access the phone's metadata, it would include whether the phone had been tunred off or not. If it was not turned off, lack of signal for the time in which the crimes occurred would tell us that the phone was nowhere near the crimescene, or else there would have been service. End of subject.
What the FBI looked into, was the cell tower pings, which cannot tell us this.
Thanks mate.
Excuse me, but why would defense only be permitted part of information downloaded directly from their client's phone? What possible legal basis for that could there be? Why would only cherry picked pieces of it being used by FBI for their analysis which Prosecution plans to use at trial be deemed necessary for Defense to have? Are they going to claim that it would be an invasion of Kohberger's privacy to have all of his own phone data?
If the defense doesn’t have all of the cellphone data, how did they build their alibi statement and hire an expert who is putting his entire reputation on the line. They have it all directly from the company.
No one can answer why the suspect here, and his father, were allowed to drive across the country, approx 2400 miles, when the suspect was wanted in Moscow for this crime. If a murderer can just jump in his car and drive to another location, possibly committing another crime along the way, why cant LE stop the vehicle before it crosses the state line? Why let the suspect go and risk something drastic happening during the joy ride?
I’m sure that will be answered at trial
What did they have on him at that time? A possible car match and he matched the vague description by the witness. Not enough.
He left Pullman before December 13, but they didn't have his phone records until December 23. His DNA was collected from the trash December 27, a match December 28.
We don't know when the IGG match was made, but I've heard (unconfirmed) that it was December 19. But a IGG match must be corroborated with a STR DNA match and further investigation of the suspect.
we must be aware that the cellular system was never intended to track phone locations! signal strength data from multiple towers can only give a very coarse approximation which will be very weather dependent and will have multiple possible solutions(locations) simply because it was NEVER intended to do so. a GPS signal will compute a location of the receiver(phone) only if an app is running and the GPS receiver is turned on. the GPS will return long/lat numbers that can be logged (ie. Garmin) . the fact is that cell phone tower data cannot prove anything, only possibly collaborate.
this case will be pure forensics. the first question to answer: is BK an interloper that was caught and made to fit the data?
the next is: what is the nature of the DNA evidence and how many sources?
We love joe! As usual, am an hour late with the live. whaa!!
No worries Patricia!
What if the SIM card was taken out without powering it down?
Unsure, I’ll see if I can get an answer
His attorney doesn't know what she's doing.
I’m not so sure about that - I think she has a plan and is working with what she can.
@@TrueCrimeWithTheSarge
The reason I say this is because she wasted so much time on the GJ dismissal knowing that it wasn't going to fly. Then she delayed even further with the survey questions instead of clearing it first with the Judge. Then she said he was out driving late at night for his alibi then comes months later and now says he was at the park when all surveillance cams in that area would be long erased over by now, and there are no witnesses to place him there. Then she mentions a weed shop that we hadn't heard about before, so apparently that video was apart of the gag order which she violated. Then she makes assumptions and threats based off of her assumptions. Then your guest just said up there that Defense is playing a dangerous game.
His attorney is very experienced...and expensive!
@@marygoff3332
His attorney is a Public Defender used to handling small drug and DUI cases. She is not a private practice attorney. She does not make a lot of money. The only reason she is being paid as much as she is on this case is because she is being contracted out from another county because she is DP certified. The Public Defender in Latah County is not DP certified. Anne is from Kootenai County while this case is being tried in Latah County.
@@Pllm30you do realize a public defender is no different then a private attorney- same amount of college-same bar exam etc…. I know many public defenders who are also private attorneys- they do both at the same time-they like the public defender position because it’s guaranteed money!
I would hope they get search order for any data they got? Or it can be suppressed.
No search warrant? Fruits of the poisonous tree and will be inadmissible
The Defense can present any alternative theories they like-however-Kohberger’s criminology background is likely to irreparably wound his case. Everyone knows there are ways for clever criminals to game the system, but there also ways to expose the gamers. The Prosecution and experts will no doubt be prepared for this kind of argument from Anne Taylor and team.
Evidence and Idaho jurors will prevail.
What kind of clever criminal brings his own car to the crime scene?
@@gogogolyra1340and manages to pass a zillion cameras?!?!? Makes more sense that whoever the perp(s) were-they were on foot!
One if the docs has the Vin for his car. As far as I can tell no infotainment, no Bluetooth package, just basic blue tooth meaning you can play music and such thru the speakers but you couldn't control anything from the car. I.E. if you want to change a song or answer a call you have to pickup the phone. It also had virus xm radio which has some debate on tracking/selling data but there's no microphone or camera like on star models.
Nice job!
Every phone is different and has different capabilities for communication. Cellular vs GPS vs WiFi vs NFC vs BlueTooth
Even "identical" phones can be different if they have different firmware, different versions of applications, etc. One version of an app may store different data and in a different location than another version. Phone analysis and interpretation can be extremely complex.
There were only 2 towers and the state admitted to false pings. The pings are literally useless.
Then the defense has an even bigger problem
THEY WSITED TILL 12PMCALL 911
Well
Yes
Don't ignore Bluetooth evidence.
We discussed that in the stream - unknown if his model vehicle has the capability
QQQ If there are pictures on his phone of stargazing during the time the State say the phone was not connecting - wouldn’t the metadata show when and where the pictures were taken?
Yep
Yes, I mentioned that in the show and if my attorney had that evidence and was withholding it boy o boy!🤬
@@TrueCrimeWithTheSarge I don’t think Anne Taylor is withholding it - I think the DA is not giving it to them. He turned his phone over without knowing anything. His attorneys are saying he was never in Idaho during that time period - that’s what I’m getting from the defense. Having lived in Lewiston ID - it was always spotty cell coverage going up to Moscow - and dropping a call or even radio service was the norm. jmo
@@coffeecake1803 there are 3 reasons cited on the PCA on why there is no contact with the phone. The defense has access to his cloud for the phone - unknown the type of phone he has - he has the username and password - he created that , therefore, the defense has access to everything on the phone
@@TrueCrimeWithTheSarge I swear he had to hand that to someone when he was arrested. WOW! Thats interesting to know. I didn’t realize you get to keep your phone.
So wouldn't the GPS data tell his location throughout the night ? Wouldnt his phone have the GPS data on it ?
I hope he forgot some app data that can show his whole time line and locations. And they really go through all in search for evidence. Also if some data can come from the car depending what it's installed in it. In the car card aka b.box??
And the satelite thing 🙂
We think there is more evidence to come out for sure - the gag order is preventing it right now from becoming public info
@@TrueCrimeWithTheSargeI really hope and wish for that 🤩
I think if (don't think he had the trojan virus unless any apps are allowed to use that nowadays) but that's for spy listening not maybe maps location, but then the phone is off seperated even battery you can eardrop conversation they have if the virus is Installed in the device
His car had no gps- no data will come from the Hyundai
I appreciate the full explanation of the cellphone process. In essence factual data vs. hypothetically happenstance.
Although LE puts together a sound story the timeline doesn’t make sense. Why? BK is the man and LE built their case around him over time. The DNA evidence is bogus.
The DNA evidence isn’t bogus, but a better argument would be the way IGG was used to identify him
20 skin cells (or less) according to Blum.
@@okiegranny4844 you could get a full profile with even less
I’m still confused about whether GPS data can be obtained from a phone while it’s turned off?
We discuss that - gps is something different - look for the spot where I mention Waze
FBI uses CART (Computer Analysis Response Team) and CAST (Cellular Analysis Survey Team)
Perps could have used X's phone
Alright, I’ll bite. Who is X?
@@TrueCrimeWithTheSarge Xana
Did this guest actually say when you ping a phone that gives you it's location?
That is blatantly false.
Supposedly it can be done.
"Pinging a phone sends a request for information to the GPS on the phone. The GPS returns the location within a range of 8 to 46 meters."
I was reading a case where LE justified it's use because of exigent circumstances.
"In a decision issued today in United States v. Caraballo, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit (per Judge Guido Calabresi) held that police did not violate the Fourth Amendment when they “pinged” a suspect’s cellphone because exigent circumstances existed."
But that only works in 'real time' not for historical data
@@okiegranny4844 Yes, they obviously didn't use a real time 'location ping' in this case, at least not referenced in the PCA. Just speaking generally.
Do you think it’s possible Bryan Kohberger, who had studied digital forensics, knowingly drove his phone to place A, left it there (suppose this is where he was stargazing) and drove to King rd, committed the murders, drove back to phonelocation to pick it up, realized he must’ve left the sheath, drove back to house (which is why he is at the house at 09 but is too paranoid to go back in). ?
Anything is possible.
You'd hope a PhD candidate or student would know not to have his phone with him at/near the crime scene. Basic knowledge.
@@marygoff3332Exactly, he would not drive his own car to commit the crimes.
The pca has connected the car bk and his phone as traveling as one so they don’t think he left his phone anywhere
Would the CAST (I guess it stand for cellular analysis….team) in their investigation try to reproduce the phone “trail” at the same time of the day with the same phone model to verify the subject’s story? Or is that too risky like the glove at OJ trial.
It’s a good question that I don’t have the expertise to answer. I’ll reach out to Frank to see what he thinks.
Yes. It's called a "drive test" and is usually done with very expensive drive test scanners, not cellphones.
Imo YT needs to pull the plug on a lot of the Idaho videos. Daily, I see videos covering persons LE publicly cleared or “cops framed Bryan, DA has nothing.” Absolutely sickening.
Police always says people are cleared before shocking the public. For example, police didn't publically suspect Chris watts for those three days then boom, he's arrested. Understand that the info police release and the claims they make are all a part of their strategy.
Also, read about the Adelson case. Police cleared Charlie then arrested him. Then they cleared his mom. After Charlie was convicted, they arrested his mom. When mom is convicted we can assume the sister will be arrested next.
What police say publically is all strategy rather than information sharing.
It's astonishing.
@@marygoff3332 for the most, I am able to avoid the trash, now and then my iPad will go to auto shuffle or something, it never fails my hands are wet or I’m on a ladder, too far away to his STOP. Seeing the titles is enough for me. I’m appalled at the hatred towards LE. More astonishing - people pay to hear the ridiculous conspiracies.
No one is making you watch them- thankfully in the USA we have a right to free speech… some countries control what you can watch!
@@colleen0229 I never once said I was forced to watch outlandish crap.
His alibi says he was moon watching that night as it’s his new pastime, like separating his DNA tainted trash into ziplock baggies and disposing it into random neighbors trash receptacles post murders was also a new hobby!
I’m looking forward to seeing how this all plays out.
His alibi is he was out driving.
@@dougcorcoran5455 yes
@@dougcorcoran5455driving and stargazing apparently. 😊
where did you see that at? have you seen videos? I know I haven't...don't believe everything
I don't understand how his alibi can work wawa park is east of ( not close ) pullman WA ...his drive showed he went west to moscow ID
That’s the defense argument, that the cell data the feds have is wrong
@@TrueCrimeWithTheSarge thanks
When I looked at the locations named in the PCA, the time period later in the day when his phone again stops reporting to the network, I believed he was in Wawawai Park, possibly disposing of evidence, if he was involved.
"Additional analysis ofrecords for the 8458 Phone indicated that between approximately
5:32 p.m. and 5:36 p.m., the 8458 Phone utilized cellular resources that provide coverage to
Johnson, ID. The 8458 Phone then stops reporting to the network from approximately 5:36 p.m.
to 8:30 p.m. That is consistent with the 8458 Phone being the area that the 8458 Phone traveled in the hours immediately following the suspected time the homicides occurred."
It’s because officer payne did the cell analysis- if he never looked at the other towers and cameras in all directions to make sure he didn’t drive somewhere else-then I’m dumbfounded
They mention no cameras capturing a white Elantra arriving in and leaving Moscow
So are you saying there is ways to investigate if s phone was turned off vs flight mode and signal loss?
Frank said yes on turning it off and airplane mode - recorded
@JosephGiacalone that is interesting, thanks. Newbie here. I randomly came across your content, and it's been very informative.
Yes, when it was powered on and off, when airplane mode was turned on and off, when Bluetooth was turned on and off, which BT devices were connected and when, when it was in portrait mode vs landscape, when the screen was touched, when it was connected to a power source...all sorts of data is logged by your phone.
What if BK dropped off his phone somewhere, out in the boonies, before the murders. And after he murders, he goes back to this place to retrieve his phone. Maybe bury the evidence there as well. Wherever his phone was, cant possibly play into his innocence.
He could have let it at home.
He didn’t read the pca they have the car the phone and him traveling together…..
That argument would undermine their own defense, so not likely.
We know for certain that he didn’t. The cellphone tracked him to Clarkston, where they have video surveillance of him at a grocery story
@@colleen0229 true but the phone lost tower communications before he left Pullman. The pca doesn’t state why it lost contact but the cell provider can absolutely tell them why the phone lost contact. They are holding that back. First red flag of many. Once the signal loses contact the tower knows it it lost signal, the battery died, the phone was powered down etc. You don’t need a cast report for that info.
Fat show watched replay!
Thanks Rhonda!
There is also a huge military facility in Washington called the Hanford Nuclear Facility. My guess is there is plenty of tracking in the area. And the DNA fails to meet the minimum required by the feds.
wawawhy with a little twang on the why part
I knew I didn’t get that right
@@TrueCrimeWithTheSarge native names can be hard, try puyallup where i grew up hahaha
@@twizlestick8120 Long Island isn’t much better with towns such as Patchogue, Happauguge, Wantagh, and Quoge!
Dead battery
It went back on 2 hours later, so It looks like the 3 options they gave
Putting your garbage in neighbors garbage he probably did because of animals getting into it and wearing gloves just means he was a clean freak I wouldn’t make anything out of it because LE went through the garbage and found nothing incremenating
We really don’t know what they found if anything and no one I know puts gloves on to throw garage in your neighbor’s pail.
I always use gloves when handling garbage, clean gloves or those disposable gloves for eating. I even use a face mask bec i get nauseous. Ugh
I wear gloves to separate for recycling
I wear gloves when it's winter. Too much trouble to take them off, put them on, take them off....I don't like cold hands!
so bk is on camera footage of putting rubbish in nieghbours bin with gloves on are we sure ? ? ?
Do you know why every person identified except one.
Door Dash delivery driver probably has a dash cam,so that may be part of 51Tb of data ....?
Will Sy Ray the knight in shining armour on the trojan horse be able to hack the 6 digit pin code for BK phone.
Did BK phone slip into his keyfob pouch & loose ALL signal ? for two hours ..
Just guessin'
I have no idea, but I assume we’ll find out soon enough
@@TrueCrimeWithTheSargethe airplane mode disconnects phone from system, but system is still connected to phone so tracing is still possible, to my understanding.
Edit: just not in a keyfob security pouch (Faraday bag). ....
Is it possible that BK left his phone at a different location then committed the crime then set up his camera to take a photo or record on a timer during the crime then went back to pick up his phone, I know it's a lot but the phone doesn't really mean he was with his phone all that time.
No because the state has the car the phone and bk traveling together- you can’t do that with your phone it would be obvious- unless he left it at home playing videos on loop in the middle of the night but even then the phone will tell investigators that it wasn’t touched or moved or moving etc
I don’t think that’s the case, because if the defense stated that, they’d undermine their entire premise that he was never near the scene
Bryan Kohberger is totally innocent of the crime and we have a SO CALLED expert who is obviously anti Kohberger. Making me want to throw up.
No one is anti-Kohberger on this episode. You may not have liked everything you heard, but that’s only part of the case.
Its a bot. Or a bait. @JosephGiacalone
Totally innocent? How in the world can we, as outsiders, say either way innocent or guilty? Not possible.
@@marygoff3332At this point he is innocent.
@@marygoff3332I hope you’re never on a jury… ANY JURY
bald and dangerous meet armed and scandalous ! 🙄🙄
🙄
Stop wasting time. Send Kohberger to Oklahoma and Texas; down here we have an express lane to Death Row
😳😳😳
🫣. Idaho has the death penalty and they are going that route, however, we have to have a trial first
You got the time all wrong start all over again
We read it straight from the affidavit
Att towers and Verizon towers don’t share networks.
That’s not what we said