I am very thankful for this group! You all helped my family and I see Colorado in a way we couldn’t on our own. The steep trails of Colorado were eye opening for someone from the low country of South Carolina.
The pleasure was all mine Aaron! It was awesome that a Dude from California and a Dude from South Carolina met up, despite 2400 miles separating us. It was even more awesome that our families got to spend time together. We will meet up again at some point! Tell your family I said hello 👋
I think it's time to supercharge the Pilot. It's a rather easy and cheap thing to do with the M90 supercharger off a Pontiac/GM car and the adapter plates. Unfortunately, Prank Parts doesn't make the adapters anymore from what I have seen. I'm going back to school in a couple weeks for advanced manufacturing. Once I get to learn how to use a CNC machine, I will be fabricating my own adapters. I have a 2011 Pilot Touring 4WD which i plan on modding soon enough. Here's a 1st gen Pilot using the M90 supercharger. th-cam.com/video/fsTus9TDkoA/w-d-xo.html
I'm learning a lot about AWD Hondas and Subaru's from this channel, and I always enjoy seeing the Xterras that roll with you get after it (I drive a 2014 Pro-4X). A crew with different vehicles is a whole lot more interesting to watch than a crew of everyone running the same rig, and it's nice to see how different vehicles handle the same obstacles under the same conditions. So much data we can gather by bringing people together.
Seeing the Ridgeline makes me happy that I have a possible off-road journey in the future because I bought my 2021 Ridgeline last year and the zf9 paired with the v6 is really a work of art.
I really appreciate the level of info-tainment put into this channel. You do so much to teach and pass on experience but it’s also entertaining. Thank you.
I appreciate your comments. I make videos as a hobby to contribute to the overlanding community. Over the years You’ve left some really informative comments, so thank you 🙏
Enjoyed the video(except for the music). I’ve had dozens of different 4x4s, and AWDs over the years. (Started in 82) I now have an 09 RAV4 4wd. I’m really liking the new Ridgeline Sport HPD, so seeing these on action just fanned the flames. Thanks for sharing and great job all!
I’d. like less of the music and more information on the AWD implementation and improvements. I’d also like information on crossover tires. Perhaps an addition to the end of the YT?
Thanks Mike! I was definitely reliving it while editing. We were really fortunate to get through so easy with our 7 vehicle convoy. We will miss you on the upcoming trip, but there will be other opportunities and maybe a more centralized location so you east coasters don’t have to drive so far.
Awesome coverage. I really appreciate the “be prepared” for reality out there. Many of the things you talk about aren’t everyday occurrences but very relevant to long enduring trips like this one. Also really dig seeing a RL lead the way. 😃
You are 100% correct - Those were epic views =) Even better than last video! I learn something every single video. I love the focus on safety, vehicle statistics, driving technics /skills along with the beautiful scenery and fun times. A trip here is now on my bucket list.
This is the most beautiful trail I’ve ever been on. It’s too bad I wasn’t shooting in 4K at the time. Welp, we’re going back in less than 2 months. I’ll do a better job at capturing the views 😃
You’re a literal trail blazer. Great vid and Thanks for showing what these cars are really capable of. Innovation needs to be recognized else we’ll be stuck with the same outdated cars and marketing machines that most people buy when they think about doing this stuff. Not gonna name any specific brands 🙊 Honda needs to start paying to market your videos!!
Thanks for those kind words @Ps2stony 🙏. There’s rumors that the new Honda Trailsport models will be on an all new platform, and I’m so curious to see how it will turn out.
Thanks Braden! I watched the Jail Break Overland video, and as much as I like the dude and because he said something along the lines of “you’ll learn alot from this video”, I didn’t really feel like I learned too much 🤣
Another banger of a video! Really appreciate it as well. As we will be headed out there in a lil over a month. Hopefully one day we can wheel with you guys! Oh, and never apologize for long videos. Your content is always helpful, informative, and well produced! Keep up the good work Kuya!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring actually I spoke with the park ranger and they're already open. He said they didn't get the a lot of snow last winter so the passes are clear. We'll be there June 23rd I'm soo excited
Yet another great video Jon! I hope to one day meet up with your group in the Colorado area and overland with you. I finally have my Passport built up as much as I'm going to for a while (think money). I think 2" lift, 265 Nitto's, skid plated front and rear, Trail Swing with full size spare should get me most places. We are in Colorado a lot since we live fairly close (Nebraska). :) Keep the content coming brother.
the waterfall is bride veil falls. that zig zag next to it is the famed blackbear pass. Some subaru transmissions can be rebuilt with a granny 1st gear. if enough interest is generated in the honda off road community this may be a possiblity. Great vid. my first time there was when I still shaking coming off blackbear pass and it was raining. Also I was in a GX470 with just tires still on temp plates so I don't feel like the trail got a fair shake from me.
Nice, John! Thanks! Oh, that trail by the waterfall is, I guess you know, Black Bear Pass. Hiked it once after breaking my finger skiing. i don't think I'd like to drive it.
@@JonDZ_Adventuringhaha. Interestingly, not all trails here at the famous reading outdoors are like that, that’s just what I show in the video, I am happily offering to guide him if he decides to explore the park.
Looking forward to getting home and watching this video to prepare myself for July! You may be the first AWD, but I wanna be the first Subaru Forester to make it up there on this next trip! Haha
I want you to be the first Subaru as well! And I’d love to document it! So I hope you can make it! With improved oem gearing, cooling and capability, I think there’s a really good chance you’ll do it unassisted.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring just as long as gas prices don't get any more ridiculous I'll be there! Will be just under 4k miles just for the drive out there and back for me.
When I lived in Colorado, I used to visit that area. Drive up from Ouray to Yankee Boy Basin to climb the peaks up there (Mt.Sneffels is a fun 14ner). Never made it over Imogene, either it was too muddy or buried in snow.
Thanks Sherif! 🙏 we are going again in July, but already have 6 to 8 vehicles in the convoy. But if you’re out there at the same time, we can always get on the same radio channel to make sure the narrow sections are clear.
Jon, can you put together a video to explain more on left foot braking? I hear about it quite a bit, but I’m still uncertain on when/where to use it. Maybe a video with some side-by-side shots of the brake pedal along with the terrain you’re driving? Thanks!
I bought a Subaru Ascent 2 years ago. Your show seems to trying hard to give me buyers remorse. I do have one question is the ZF9 in 2016 Pilots any different from the ones your guys are running in the 2021 Ridgeline and 2019 Honda Passport?
Sorry John, I definitely don’t intend to give anyone buyers remorse. So, in 2019, ZF Friedrichshafen revised their ZF9 transmission to address issues with the original design. I’m not sure how much more mechanically different they are, but one of the main issues was incorrect assembly, so they made the transmission more “dummy proof” while it’s assembled at the factory. I’d have a video called “redemption at 10K feet”, this video has my friend Jesse with his 2017 Honda Pilot touring driving up just fine.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I will look that video up. The buyers remorse comment was more of a joke than a complaint. I love the Ascent and still think it is still the best choice for my family. I also love your show it’s fun and inspires me to go on adventures. I actually just got Nitto Nomad Grappler tires for my Ascent so we can do some fun summer adventures.
I definitely want to try this sometime. Do you think a non lifted Passport with 30.5" AT's, skid plates and a transmission monitoring device would be able to do this?
That would definitely be a good start. That configuration would be at 8.6” of ground clearance, but I’d recommend Atleast 10”. My Passport has 12” of minimum clearance, and 16” of rocker clearance. There was no contact with the skid plate. During the waterfall slick rock section you can hear @Hondapilot overland say “ I used my skid plate”. His first Gen Honda Pilot is atleast at 10” of ground clearance. So, while I’m sure a non lifted Passport might be able to make it through, there would definitely be contact to the skid plates.
Yes, we are going in July. We have a Forester wilderness coming from the east coast that may join us, there may be an open spot, do you have an Instagram? If so, what’s your handle?
I’d love to see a video of what exactly you mean with the “two foot” method. I’ve seen it with rally racing, but honestly that’s so far removed from this kind of driving I can’t imagine it’s the same technique.
Hi JonDZ, I really like your videos. I heard you talked about crawl ratio, do you think these gear ratio are good for a steep hill? 1st gear 4.717:1 2nd 2.906:1 3rd 1.864:1 I have a stock kia sportage 2023 x pro with all terrain tires, I took it twice to some off road trails some what easy to moderate and it did really good going up hill in a rocky mountain. Once it gets traction it moves.
Thanks Benjamin! So that's some decent gearing for an AWD! To calculate the crawl ratio, take 1st gear and multiply it be the axle ratio (final drive). You Kia's crawl ratio is at 17.2:1 which sounds like it should be enough for Imogene. I would recommend at least 10" of ground clearance though. There are some parts where a vehicle can get hung up on. Does the X-Pro have the 8 speed automatic or 8 speed dual clutch?
The Outback wilderness drove up to the “poser rock” at 12,000 feet in a Subaru commercial. After that point is where the trouble started for our group. As long as it keeps on moving and doesn’t come to a stop it’ll have a chance, so I think it’s possible. The turbo engine won’t be affected as much by the high altitudes, especially once the turbo start’s spooling . The Forester wilderness is naturally aspirated, but it’s geared more aggressively, and what I experienced on this trail is that with the aggressive gearing in the ZF9, it was like driving at sea level. The Forester wilderness will be down on horsepower and torque, but with more aggressive gearing it might not matter. We are returning to Colorado in a couple of months. We will have lifted 4th generation Subaru Outback 2.5 and possibly a lifted Forester wilderness with us.
Haha! I did in fact actually try to get a Jeep Badge of honor. I found some on EBay, but people wanted $70 for them. Now that I made this video, maybe I should just spend the money 😂
Bro I totally did it right before you in my stock Subaru- NOT !!! I like how you show each vehicles specs/lift/crawl ratio etc side by side during an obstacle Can you do a demo on Gaia someday? I put the premium app on but have no effing idea what to do with it, let’s say going on a new trail and maybe in and out of cell range while driving
@@anthonylachance5931 to calculate the crawl ratio, take 1st gear (4.20:1) and multiply by final drive (3.36:1). If the vehicle has a Low gear transfer case, multiply that in too. A 2020 outlander GT V6 has a 14.1:1 crawl ratio.
Awesome video! I just discovered your channel because I’m currently shopping for a new car, and I’m stuck between a Ridgeline and a Passport. Seeing them both here is super cool. My question to you is, do you regret the passport at all? Would you recommend one over the other? I know the other obvious differences, but no reviews on TH-cam have done what you have it seems so your experience is invaluable. Thanks!
With a CVT cooler on my 2018 Outback what do you think John? If we was up in Colorado in July I couldn’t resist at least giving it a go, with a few more capable trail mates as well of course. (2in Ironman, 235 Wildpeaks, and full skids)
We’re actually going back in a week and a half with a 2010 outback 2.5, lifted with a transcooler and torq locker. We will find out soon enough 😃. We will have a good 4WD support group to assist.
Ha! Anything is possible with enough mods and money. This trail wasn’t nearly as technical as Fins N Things (I see you did that trail too), Imogene Pass is really just mechanically demanding for a vehicle without a low gear transfer case. Well, not as bad for the ZF9 equipped Hondas, the highest temp I saw was 219F after spinning tires on the obstacle the Landcruiser 100 got stuck on.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Yeah your providing great info keep it up! You def have a niche and its great especially for all the new ppl joining the hobby. Any plans of trying todo black bear in your rig?
The miata probably has better power to weight and breakover angle with the mods he did. It also comes stock with a LSD. The only bad thing would a guy Jon's size fit comfortable into that tiny interior and 500lbs of camping gear!
Great video! I live in Ridgway and have a 2020 Honda Ridgeline. I’m torn between lifting my Honda or paying over MSRP for a Bronco or equivalent. 😂 Where did you have the work done? I called the dealership in Grand Junction and they thought I was crazy.
Hi Jon, just curious what's the real bottleneck of these AWD vehicles? Asking because I did black bear pass uphill portion in 2wd in my jeep wj 4.7ho(5spd auto), my jeep was loaded to pretty much max payload as well but I don't recall I was having issue going up. Would you say it's a combination of lack of low end torque & gearing? And cooling wise, these vehicles usually don't have trans cooler?
I run 32.1” tires and a 3.5” Traxda lift kit. But you’ll to either cut the metal pinch weld or use a Traxda axle relocation kit to make 32s fit. I know you’ll probably have some follow up questions so I put up my build on a website. crossoverlanding.com/honda-overland-build
The dual range transmissions were stick shift and geared 22:1, which is more aggressive than a Manual Subaru Crosstrek geared 16.7:1. I think you’re right though. I should be able to make it. Stay tuned though, in the coming months you’ll find out how a Subaru Outback does on this trail. We were out here again just a week ago.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring my memory must be screwing with me, old school subie person and remembering when people were just starting to get those d/r boxes, thought they were eat's but my bad lol
Of course Nestor. I’ll be planning a trip at a lake between Los Angeles and the Bay Area (actually, a little closer to you). Join up on Crossoverlanding for event info: facebook.com/groups/1097379240623726/
Question, do the newer Hondas still have issues with transmission and AWD system overheating? Does the transmission cooler on towing package help at all?
Your question was covered in this video. You can skip to 9:56 to see the difference the German made ZF9 automatic transmission makes. To answer you question: 1a.) older VTM4 non-twin clutch AWD systems we not prone to overheating, but didn’t have as much benefit at lower crawl speeds. (I have never witnessed an older AWD system overheat). 1b.) older VTM4 Hondas used the Honda 5 speed AT, and were definitely prone to overheating, just like many modern AWDs. 2a.) modern iVTM4 equipped Hondas twin clutch AWD systems can trigger a conservatively proactive heat warning if you spin tires excessively. The warning goes away after 15-20 seconds, and there’s no limp mode. 2b.) while I’m sure the ZF9 could overheat, the highest temp my Passport saw was 219F at the spot where the LandCruiser got stuck (it was actually stuck for 10 minutes). Besides that, the highest temps my modern Honda saw was 208F going up the switch backs to poser rock. As far as the tow package, I didn’t see much of a difference UNLESS air is getting on the external cooler. At highway speeds, the transmission stays before 170F, but on a trail it doesn’t seem to make much difference. I installed a puller fan in front of the transcooler, but as mentioned in this video, I forgot to turn it on. Temps probably would have been lower if it was running. For people that don’t install a fan, there won’t be much difference.
One more thing to add, this is the 2nd tallest dirt road you can drive up in the USA. As seen in this video, My 2019 Passport EX-L AWD on 2.5” taller tires and my friends 2021 Ridgeline with 2.5” taller tires did not overheat it’s transmission or AWD system. This was a fairly easy trail for our vehicles.
That’s a Brilliant idea! A simple sign posted on both ends of the blind turn section would work out well! I’ll definitely scan for other transmissions when I’m out there.
@@iyot1020 it wasn’t so bad. Til this day, all 9 miles of Fins N Things was my hardest trail. I almost rolled, and asked to be pulled up this super steep hill. I’m not 100% sure if better line choice or technique would have been enough.
It’s funny you mention that, because I was approached by a group of people at Overland Expo West that told me their stock current generation base model Rav4 AWD made it up to imogene pass, but they went up the telluride side.
Well, the advantage to an automatic transmission is the torque converter. It multiples torque to help get over obstacles. A manual transmission would need to be geared about 2x more aggressive to get a similar experience. Not many Americans (USA specifically) don’t know how to drive manual (I personally do).
Im curious about the crawl ratios/transmission talk. Why do those transmissions overheat more when climbing up hill? Do awd vehicles have a low range gear box like regular 4x4s do? Do honda transmissions overheat on long uphills on the highway as well? Sorry for all the questions im just not too educated on the subject.
At 13:54 I show a list of crawl ratios. Modern Hondas with the German made ZF9 transmission are geared a little more aggressive than a Toyota 4Runner in 4LO 2nd gear. The 1st Gen Honda Pilots and most other AWDs are geared like a 4runner in 4HI 1st gear. Examples of other AWDs with more aggressive gearing would be the Jeep renegade/compass Trailhawk, Range Rover disco sport. All those vehicles have the same transmission as the Passport/Pilot/Ridgeline. The Ford Bronco sport isn’t too bad either.
So, in the video thumbnail there is a Red Honda Ridgeline and my green Honda Passport. These are the modern Hondas with the ZF9 transmission that got up unassisted. The. Black and Silver SUVs are 1st generation Honda Pilots that needed assistance.
For me, taking these roads to beautiful places you cannot get to on pavement is the point, not seeing what your vehicle can do. There is nothing wrong with taking the easier line, in fact I do to protect my vehicle as much as I can.
Thanks for your feedback Mike. I know the music choice could be quite polarizing. It’s free copy right music that has recently become available on TH-cam studio, and to my knowledge the only free songs with “vocals”. Was is the artist that you didn’t like? How would you feel about folk songs with vocals? The reason I ask is because I’ve been contemplating paying for premium music with vocals.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Hey Jon, thanks for the reply. I think your vids need no music, with or with vocals. Your vids are great stand alone. To me, including music is bringing the rat race and noise to the great outdoors. I find myself turning down the volume when the music comes on and back up when it stops, then I miss things, rewind, I ended up turning off your vid because of that. It could be any genre music.
@@mikemitchell9138 thanks for the explanation. I mix in music during the drone footage sections because there’s no sound. But I always make sure to not drown out the sounds of tires slipping and engines revving during an obstacle section.
I am very thankful for this group! You all helped my family and I see Colorado in a way we couldn’t on our own. The steep trails of Colorado were eye opening for someone from the low country of South Carolina.
The pleasure was all mine Aaron! It was awesome that a Dude from California and a Dude from South Carolina met up, despite 2400 miles separating us. It was even more awesome that our families got to spend time together. We will meet up again at some point! Tell your family I said hello 👋
I think it's time to supercharge the Pilot. It's a rather easy and cheap thing to do with the M90 supercharger off a Pontiac/GM car and the adapter plates. Unfortunately, Prank Parts doesn't make the adapters anymore from what I have seen. I'm going back to school in a couple weeks for advanced manufacturing. Once I get to learn how to use a CNC machine, I will be fabricating my own adapters. I have a 2011 Pilot Touring 4WD which i plan on modding soon enough.
Here's a 1st gen Pilot using the M90 supercharger.
th-cam.com/video/fsTus9TDkoA/w-d-xo.html
@@charminbaer2323 The problem is tuning my 07 to run with a supercharger.
I'm learning a lot about AWD Hondas and Subaru's from this channel, and I always enjoy seeing the Xterras that roll with you get after it (I drive a 2014 Pro-4X). A crew with different vehicles is a whole lot more interesting to watch than a crew of everyone running the same rig, and it's nice to see how different vehicles handle the same obstacles under the same conditions. So much data we can gather by bringing people together.
Couldn't agree more.
Seeing the Ridgeline makes me happy that I have a possible off-road journey in the future because I bought my 2021 Ridgeline last year and the zf9 paired with the v6 is really a work of art.
I agree 💯 %, besides the new Nissan Pathfinder, there’s no other ZF9 equipped vehicle with a 3.5L or larger V6. It’s a great combo!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring
Did anyone wear helmets while on the tight roads? Any vehicle with extra roll bars?
I really appreciate the level of info-tainment put into this channel. You do so much to teach and pass on experience but it’s also entertaining. Thank you.
I appreciate your comments. I make videos as a hobby to contribute to the overlanding community. Over the years You’ve left some really informative comments, so thank you 🙏
Bringing the information and AWD thunder to the people! I had a great time on the trip and you covered it really well. Great job.
I thought you did a great job condensing the long trip and providing good insight! Watched the entire thing, looked like a blast!
Thanks Zack! My goal was to keep the video below 30 minutes but I felt the details were too important to leave out.
About 10 years ago I had a Honda AWD station wagon follow me through this pass in my Ram 2500 4wd. I gave him high fives for even daring it.
I expect nothing but the most informative content from such a big influencer. Great job, buddy!
Thanks Vibol! 🙏 Awwww cmon man! You know I’m just a regular dude just trying to contribute to the overlanding community 😄
@@JonDZ_Adventuring haha, don't try to be modest. We appreciate you!
Enjoyed the video(except for the music). I’ve had dozens of different 4x4s, and AWDs over the years. (Started in 82) I now have an 09 RAV4 4wd. I’m really liking the new Ridgeline Sport HPD, so seeing these on action just fanned the flames. Thanks for sharing and great job all!
I’d. like less of the music and more information on the AWD implementation and improvements. I’d also like information on crossover tires. Perhaps an addition to the end of the YT?
Nice travelogue and I appreciate all the warnings for us newbies to the idea of off roading in parks. Different than my back yard!
Great video Jon! This trip was so much fun, and it's great to be able to watch all of the footage and relive it!!
Thanks Mike! I was definitely reliving it while editing. We were really fortunate to get through so easy with our 7 vehicle convoy. We will miss you on the upcoming trip, but there will be other opportunities and maybe a more centralized location so you east coasters don’t have to drive so far.
Wow! An absolute gem of a spreadsheet at 14:00! Thank you for including the crawl ratios for so many cars!
What can I say, imma nerd 🤓. You’re very welcome.
Awesome coverage. I really appreciate the “be prepared” for reality out there. Many of the things you talk about aren’t everyday occurrences but very relevant to long enduring trips like this one. Also really dig seeing a RL lead the way. 😃
You are 100% correct - Those were epic views =) Even better than last video! I learn something every single video. I love the focus on safety, vehicle statistics, driving technics /skills along with the beautiful scenery and fun times. A trip here is now on my bucket list.
This is the most beautiful trail I’ve ever been on. It’s too bad I wasn’t shooting in 4K at the time. Welp, we’re going back in less than 2 months. I’ll do a better job at capturing the views 😃
You’re a literal trail blazer. Great vid and Thanks for showing what these cars are really capable of. Innovation needs to be recognized else we’ll be stuck with the same outdated cars and marketing machines that most people buy when they think about doing this stuff. Not gonna name any specific brands 🙊
Honda needs to start paying to market your videos!!
Thanks for those kind words @Ps2stony 🙏. There’s rumors that the new Honda Trailsport models will be on an all new platform, and I’m so curious to see how it will turn out.
Love these videos!! Just got a Armada can not wait to get on the trail!
I want to summit in my R50!
Great vid John.
Great video man. I've been looking up Imogene videos to prepare but there are surprisingly few that are as informational as this one.
Thanks Braden! I watched the Jail Break Overland video, and as much as I like the dude and because he said something along the lines of “you’ll learn alot from this video”, I didn’t really feel like I learned too much 🤣
Another banger of a video! Really appreciate it as well. As we will be headed out there in a lil over a month. Hopefully one day we can wheel with you guys! Oh, and never apologize for long videos. Your content is always helpful, informative, and well produced! Keep up the good work Kuya!
Thanks Frankie! Yep! Opening day is July 1st. I'll be back out in Colorado mid July.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring actually I spoke with the park ranger and they're already open. He said they didn't get the a lot of snow last winter so the passes are clear. We'll be there June 23rd I'm soo excited
Nice video Jon, very informative and helpful. I hope to one day get out there to Colorado get my Imogene Pass badge!
Thanks Fred! You’d love it out here!
Fantastic video, always informative, attention to detail, length always leaves viewers wanting more!
Thank you 🙏
Yet another great video Jon! I hope to one day meet up with your group in the Colorado area and overland with you. I finally have my Passport built up as much as I'm going to for a while (think money). I think 2" lift, 265 Nitto's, skid plated front and rear, Trail Swing with full size spare should get me most places. We are in Colorado a lot since we live fairly close (Nebraska). :) Keep the content coming brother.
Thanks Mr. Means! We will be in Colorado mid July. We should try to meet up!
Love the videos. Love the “nerd” talk…lol. Nice to
know those low range gear ratios. Helps to understand why some don’t make it.
Love those drone shots Jon. Great addition to your video
Big thanks to Mac’s Son for shooting the drone footage.
Im excited to watch this. I have a lifted RD1. Im turning it into a overlander. This looks fun. God bless
Killer video as always, Jon!
Thanks Jonathan 🙏
Fantastic content as always! Awesome crew. Awesome adventure. Can’t wait to hit this again.
Really looking forward to it! Camping up there will be epix
the waterfall is bride veil falls. that zig zag next to it is the famed blackbear pass.
Some subaru transmissions can be rebuilt with a granny 1st gear. if enough interest is generated in the honda off road community this may be a possiblity.
Great vid. my first time there was when I still shaking coming off blackbear pass and it was raining. Also I was in a GX470 with just tires still on temp plates so I don't feel like the trail got a fair shake from me.
Nice, John! Thanks! Oh, that trail by the waterfall is, I guess you know, Black Bear Pass. Hiked it once after breaking my finger skiing. i don't think I'd like to drive it.
Oh my! Maybe I won’t get too close to that waterfall after all 😂
Is that red ridge line from PA? Maybe we can link up for a wheeling day at our local offroad place
Yep! He’s from PA, but your trails are too crazy 😂
@@JonDZ_Adventuringhaha. Interestingly, not all trails here at the famous reading outdoors are like that, that’s just what I show in the video, I am happily offering to guide him if he decides to explore the park.
you guys rocks! thank you for all the info, many things learned from this video
Looking forward to getting home and watching this video to prepare myself for July! You may be the first AWD, but I wanna be the first Subaru Forester to make it up there on this next trip! Haha
I want you to be the first Subaru as well! And I’d love to document it! So I hope you can make it! With improved oem gearing, cooling and capability, I think there’s a really good chance you’ll do it unassisted.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring just as long as gas prices don't get any more ridiculous I'll be there! Will be just under 4k miles just for the drive out there and back for me.
@@JDS-Dalton well, I think it’s time to add you to the IG chat then. What’s your IG?
When I lived in Colorado, I used to visit that area. Drive up from Ouray to Yankee Boy Basin to climb the peaks up there (Mt.Sneffels is a fun 14ner). Never made it over Imogene, either it was too muddy or buried in snow.
We were out in Colorado again last week. We did imogene again, Yankee boy, clear lakes, Ophir and Silverton
That’s pretty amazing. Congrats on making it up there. What a team!
Thanks Robbie!
Good job in this! Looking forward to the trip!
Looking forward to it as well! We learned a lot on the first trip. We learned we missed a lot.
Awesome video! Would love to join you on the next Imogene pass ride!
Thanks Sherif! 🙏 we are going again in July, but already have 6 to 8 vehicles in the convoy. But if you’re out there at the same time, we can always get on the same radio channel to make sure the narrow sections are clear.
Great video , Did you go to the Ouray Brewery when you were there?
We just got some ice cream when we were in town.
I don't care if it was 2 hours I would watch it all no prob. It's worth it
Thank you DJ!
Jon, can you put together a video to explain more on left foot braking? I hear about it quite a bit, but I’m still uncertain on when/where to use it. Maybe a video with some side-by-side shots of the brake pedal along with the terrain you’re driving? Thanks!
I’ve been meaning to make a video about it. Good idea! Check out the latest video about BALLS (brake aid line lock system), it’s pretty darn cool.
My 2022 Ridgeline Black Edition needs more of this and fewer trips to Home Depot.
What is that rocking canvas bed cap he has on that truck?
Haha, check out this video. He talks about his camp setup at 11:55 th-cam.com/video/J3l7JAnwYNA/w-d-xo.html
I love this. Thanks for sharing.
Awesome video John. 💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾
I bet you're super happy!
B.a.l.l.s. works like a champ!
Oh, I didn’t have it here, BUT the story goes. Emmanuel saw this video, I saw how he could help me get up these obstacles without having to “bump” up.
there should be a universal gmrs ch at the trail so that backing up wont be an issue
Hectic video boys! Loved every second of this one🔥🤙
Yeeeeeeeeeee 🙌
Great video gonna try to make this trip one day
I bought a Subaru Ascent 2 years ago. Your show seems to trying hard to give me buyers remorse.
I do have one question is the ZF9 in 2016 Pilots any different from the ones your guys are running in the 2021 Ridgeline and 2019 Honda Passport?
Sorry John, I definitely don’t intend to give anyone buyers remorse. So, in 2019, ZF Friedrichshafen revised their ZF9 transmission to address issues with the original design. I’m not sure how much more mechanically different they are, but one of the main issues was incorrect assembly, so they made the transmission more “dummy proof” while it’s assembled at the factory. I’d have a video called “redemption at 10K feet”, this video has my friend Jesse with his 2017 Honda Pilot touring driving up just fine.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I will look that video up.
The buyers remorse comment was more of a joke than a complaint. I love the Ascent and still think it is still the best choice for my family. I also love your show it’s fun and inspires me to go on adventures. I actually just got Nitto Nomad Grappler tires for my Ascent so we can do some fun summer adventures.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring is that the guy that’s AWD Tank on Instagram?
Yes @AWDTANK
Lived in CO for 20 years. Imogene Pass is the real deal.
I definitely want to try this sometime. Do you think a non lifted Passport with 30.5" AT's, skid plates and a transmission monitoring device would be able to do this?
That would definitely be a good start. That configuration would be at 8.6” of ground clearance, but I’d recommend Atleast 10”.
My Passport has 12” of minimum clearance, and 16” of rocker clearance. There was no contact with the skid plate.
During the waterfall slick rock section you can hear @Hondapilot overland say “ I used my skid plate”. His first Gen Honda Pilot is atleast at 10” of ground clearance. So, while I’m sure a non lifted Passport might be able to make it through, there would definitely be contact to the skid plates.
Was looking to go with my Forster wilderness you guys ever plan on going again? Would love to tag along if you would have me
Yes, we are going in July. We have a Forester wilderness coming from the east coast that may join us, there may be an open spot, do you have an Instagram? If so, what’s your handle?
I’d love to see a video of what exactly you mean with the “two foot” method. I’ve seen it with rally racing, but honestly that’s so far removed from this kind of driving I can’t imagine it’s the same technique.
A more accurate description would be left foot braking, not the two foot, 3 pedal dance 😃
Hi JonDZ, I really like your videos. I heard you talked about crawl ratio, do you think these gear ratio are good for a steep hill? 1st gear 4.717:1 2nd 2.906:1 3rd 1.864:1
I have a stock kia sportage 2023 x pro with all terrain tires, I took it twice to some off road trails some what easy to moderate and it did really good going up hill in a rocky mountain. Once it gets traction it moves.
Thanks Benjamin! So that's some decent gearing for an AWD! To calculate the crawl ratio, take 1st gear and multiply it be the axle ratio (final drive). You Kia's crawl ratio is at 17.2:1 which sounds like it should be enough for Imogene. I would recommend at least 10" of ground clearance though. There are some parts where a vehicle can get hung up on. Does the X-Pro have the 8 speed automatic or 8 speed dual clutch?
thank you for replying to my comment! It has the 8 speed automatic transmission torque converter@@JonDZ_Adventuring
Do you think a forester wilderness or an Outback wilderness can do it?
The Outback wilderness drove up to the “poser rock” at 12,000 feet in a Subaru commercial. After that point is where the trouble started for our group. As long as it keeps on moving and doesn’t come to a stop it’ll have a chance, so I think it’s possible. The turbo engine won’t be affected as much by the high altitudes, especially once the turbo start’s spooling .
The Forester wilderness is naturally aspirated, but it’s geared more aggressively, and what I experienced on this trail is that with the aggressive gearing in the ZF9, it was like driving at sea level. The Forester wilderness will be down on horsepower and torque, but with more aggressive gearing it might not matter.
We are returning to Colorado in a couple of months. We will have lifted 4th generation Subaru Outback 2.5 and possibly a lifted Forester wilderness with us.
Have you looked into the Silverado 2.7 turbo crawl ratio? The base truck with the 4 banger doesn’t have low range.
Oh, that’s interesting!
Hell yea man great job!
I’d like to see the new pilot trailsport go up this
It should have a much easier time since it’s geared even more aggressive. Our Hondas in this video are 20.4:1, the new 2023 Trailsport is at 22.75:1.
Excellent video!
Thank you very much!
You guys awesome!! Keep wheeling it👍
I did Imogene black bear and engineer years ago on a Husqvarna. Surprised you could do Imogene without a lo lock. Did you put in for a Jeep Badge? LOL
Haha! I did in fact actually try to get a Jeep Badge of honor. I found some on EBay, but people wanted $70 for them. Now that I made this video, maybe I should just spend the money 😂
Bro I totally did it right before you in my stock Subaru-
NOT !!!
I like how you show each vehicles specs/lift/crawl ratio etc side by side during an obstacle
Can you do a demo on Gaia someday? I put the premium app on but have no effing idea what to do with it, let’s say going on a new trail and maybe in and out of cell range while driving
Hey Charley, thanks for the kind words. I did a video on beginner tips for GAIA GPS. Just search for “Gaia JonDZ”
Do you know by any means what is the krawl ration on a outlander 2020 v6
@@anthonylachance5931 to calculate the crawl ratio, take 1st gear (4.20:1) and multiply by final drive (3.36:1). If the vehicle has a Low gear transfer case, multiply that in too. A 2020 outlander GT V6 has a 14.1:1 crawl ratio.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring yess it have a low range and lock
Awesome video! I just discovered your channel because I’m currently shopping for a new car, and I’m stuck between a Ridgeline and a Passport. Seeing them both here is super cool. My question to you is, do you regret the passport at all? Would you recommend one over the other? I know the other obvious differences, but no reviews on TH-cam have done what you have it seems so your experience is invaluable. Thanks!
Nice video from Australia
Thank you very much 🙏
With a CVT cooler on my 2018 Outback what do you think John? If we was up in Colorado in July I couldn’t resist at least giving it a go, with a few more capable trail mates as well of course. (2in Ironman, 235 Wildpeaks, and full skids)
We’re actually going back in a week and a half with a 2010 outback 2.5, lifted with a transcooler and torq locker. We will find out soon enough 😃. We will have a good 4WD support group to assist.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I look forward to hearing out how they do! I’m gonna do my best to get out there next July
Good to know that I can take 2021 ridgeline out on these light outdoors back roads
i mean a miata did it last year so that should tell you everything you need to know.
Ha! Anything is possible with enough mods and money. This trail wasn’t nearly as technical as Fins N Things (I see you did that trail too), Imogene Pass is really just mechanically demanding for a vehicle without a low gear transfer case. Well, not as bad for the ZF9 equipped Hondas, the highest temp I saw was 219F after spinning tires on the obstacle the Landcruiser 100 got stuck on.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Yeah your providing great info keep it up! You def have a niche and its great especially for all the new ppl joining the hobby. Any plans of trying todo black bear in your rig?
The miata probably has better power to weight and breakover angle with the mods he did. It also comes stock with a LSD. The only bad thing would a guy Jon's size fit comfortable into that tiny interior and 500lbs of camping gear!
Great video! I live in Ridgway and have a 2020 Honda Ridgeline. I’m torn between lifting my Honda or paying over MSRP for a Bronco or equivalent. 😂 Where did you have the work done? I called the dealership in Grand Junction and they thought I was crazy.
Hi Jon, just curious what's the real bottleneck of these AWD vehicles? Asking because I did black bear pass uphill portion in 2wd in my jeep wj 4.7ho(5spd auto), my jeep was loaded to pretty much max payload as well but I don't recall I was having issue going up. Would you say it's a combination of lack of low end torque & gearing? And cooling wise, these vehicles usually don't have trans cooler?
Does the passport and 2021 pilot have the same off road capabilities?
Yes, or Ridgeline with the ZF9 transmission
All 2021+ pilots have the ZF9, all 2020+ Ridgelines do too
@@JonDZ_Adventuring
What size tire and lift kit do you have?
I run 32.1” tires and a 3.5” Traxda lift kit. But you’ll to either cut the metal pinch weld or use a Traxda axle relocation kit to make 32s fit. I know you’ll probably have some follow up questions so I put up my build on a website. crossoverlanding.com/honda-overland-build
@@JonDZ_Adventuring thank you!
The good ole subie 4eat can do quite a lot and if you find one of the rare dual ranges they could prolly make it all the way up lol
The dual range transmissions were stick shift and geared 22:1, which is more aggressive than a Manual Subaru Crosstrek geared 16.7:1. I think you’re right though. I should be able to make it. Stay tuned though, in the coming months you’ll find out how a Subaru Outback does on this trail. We were out here again just a week ago.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring my memory must be screwing with me, old school subie person and remembering when people were just starting to get those d/r boxes, thought they were eat's but my bad lol
Oh nice video !
r u gonna do black bear pass now? 😬
Haha! I could probably be coerced into going, but only if my Wife doesn't come along with me. She'd probably kill me before the trail does, haha!
Is that an acura emblem on the grill of your passport?
It’s a Mythosaur from the Star Wars universe.
18:16 part looks kinda sketchy..
Hey man can i join you on a trip? Im from the bay area and drive a 15" Tacoma 4x4 on a 2 inch lift and 32s
Of course Nestor. I’ll be planning a trip at a lake between Los Angeles and the Bay Area (actually, a little closer to you). Join up on Crossoverlanding for event info: facebook.com/groups/1097379240623726/
Hella epic jon wow 🤩 looks hella fun yeah I would need a real vehicle to have this kind of fun cuz the Element won’t make it lol
It’s a beautiful place. Renting a SXS would be totally worth it. This is one of the most beautiful places I’ve ever been to.
Question, do the newer Hondas still have issues with transmission and AWD system overheating? Does the transmission cooler on towing package help at all?
Your question was covered in this video. You can skip to 9:56 to see the difference the German made ZF9 automatic transmission makes. To answer you question:
1a.) older VTM4 non-twin clutch AWD systems we not prone to overheating, but didn’t have as much benefit at lower crawl speeds. (I have never witnessed an older AWD system overheat).
1b.) older VTM4 Hondas used the Honda 5 speed AT, and were definitely prone to overheating, just like many modern AWDs.
2a.) modern iVTM4 equipped Hondas twin clutch AWD systems can trigger a conservatively proactive heat warning if you spin tires excessively. The warning goes away after 15-20 seconds, and there’s no limp mode.
2b.) while I’m sure the ZF9 could overheat, the highest temp my Passport saw was 219F at the spot where the LandCruiser got stuck (it was actually stuck for 10 minutes). Besides that, the highest temps my modern Honda saw was 208F going up the switch backs to poser rock.
As far as the tow package, I didn’t see much of a difference UNLESS air is getting on the external cooler. At highway speeds, the transmission stays before 170F, but on a trail it doesn’t seem to make much difference. I installed a puller fan in front of the transcooler, but as mentioned in this video, I forgot to turn it on. Temps probably would have been lower if it was running. For people that don’t install a fan, there won’t be much difference.
One more thing to add, this is the 2nd tallest dirt road you can drive up in the USA. As seen in this video, My 2019 Passport EX-L AWD on 2.5” taller tires and my friends 2021 Ridgeline with 2.5” taller tires did not overheat it’s transmission or AWD system. This was a fairly easy trail for our vehicles.
Thank you for the great response!
Sweet unassisted summit. Another badge for JDZ.
At Overland Expo West I actually was able to buy a badge for Imogene Pass 😃
Great video but I’m pretty sure Fearless Trailhawk got to the top a year or two ago.
th-cam.com/video/UOLvEI1Zj_g/w-d-xo.html
Yep! He sure did! But he drives a 4WD. The KL trailhawk has a low gear transfer case with almost twice the crawl capability than a Toyota 4Runner.
3rd suggestion have a single radio freq that all vehicles should tune in
That’s a Brilliant idea! A simple sign posted on both ends of the blind turn section would work out well!
I’ll definitely scan for other transmissions when I’m out there.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring yep just like cb radio days where there universal ch for help
@@JonDZ_Adventuring you got huevos bringing awd to imogene I don't think I would even bring my fj on imogene hahaha
@@iyot1020 it wasn’t so bad. Til this day, all 9 miles of Fins N Things was my hardest trail. I almost rolled, and asked to be pulled up this super steep hill. I’m not 100% sure if better line choice or technique would have been enough.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring my wife beg to differ her hands were sweating just watching this vid lol I mean she would not even go back to Shafer trail
Driving the trail in the opposite direction (Telluride to Ouray) would've been way easier for the AWD vehicles.
It’s funny you mention that, because I was approached by a group of people at Overland Expo West that told me their stock current generation base model Rav4 AWD made it up to imogene pass, but they went up the telluride side.
44:50 you're now an honorary Toyota
🤣🤣, but shame on the Toyota Truck that lost it 😊
Good stuff.
Thanks Leo! 🙏
So could you do a transmission conversion to manual and completely avoid all the trans temp juggling?
Well, the advantage to an automatic transmission is the torque converter. It multiples torque to help get over obstacles. A manual transmission would need to be geared about 2x more aggressive to get a similar experience. Not many Americans (USA specifically) don’t know how to drive manual (I personally do).
I am convinced that I need a drone one day lol
Impressive
Im curious about the crawl ratios/transmission talk. Why do those transmissions overheat more when climbing up hill? Do awd vehicles have a low range gear box like regular 4x4s do? Do honda transmissions overheat on long uphills on the highway as well? Sorry for all the questions im just not too educated on the subject.
At 13:54 I show a list of crawl ratios. Modern Hondas with the German made ZF9 transmission are geared a little more aggressive than a Toyota 4Runner in 4LO 2nd gear. The 1st Gen Honda Pilots and most other AWDs are geared like a 4runner in 4HI 1st gear.
Examples of other AWDs with more aggressive gearing would be the Jeep renegade/compass Trailhawk,
Range Rover disco sport. All those vehicles have the same transmission as the Passport/Pilot/Ridgeline. The Ford Bronco sport isn’t too bad either.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring very interesting. Thanks for the info!
Oh shoot I watched the whole thing
I hoped you enjoyed it Leau! I tried to make the 55 minutes go quick.
Also add shear luck into the driver capability as well
Wait a second. I see a Jeep Gladiator pulling a black SUV up the hill. So...unassisted?
So, in the video thumbnail there is a Red Honda Ridgeline and my green Honda Passport. These are the modern Hondas with the ZF9 transmission that got up unassisted.
The. Black and Silver SUVs are 1st generation Honda Pilots that needed assistance.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring
Thanks for the quick reply, sir. How does that ZF9 transmission shift? Poor or smoothly?
For me, taking these roads to beautiful places you cannot get to on pavement is the point, not seeing what your vehicle can do. There is nothing wrong with taking the easier line, in fact I do to protect my vehicle as much as I can.
They should make this a one way road.
Galing galing
Maraming Salamat 🙏
I like your vids, but I beg you to stop the music
Thanks for your feedback Mike. I know the music choice could be quite polarizing. It’s free copy right music that has recently become available on TH-cam studio, and to my knowledge the only free songs with “vocals”. Was is the artist that you didn’t like? How would you feel about folk songs with vocals? The reason I ask is because I’ve been contemplating paying for premium music with vocals.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Hey Jon, thanks for the reply. I think your vids need no music, with or with vocals. Your vids are great stand alone. To me, including music is bringing the rat race and noise to the great outdoors. I find myself turning down the volume when the music comes on and back up when it stops, then I miss things, rewind, I ended up turning off your vid because of that. It could be any genre music.
@@mikemitchell9138 thanks for the explanation. I mix in music during the drone footage sections because there’s no sound. But I always make sure to not drown out the sounds of tires slipping and engines revving during an obstacle section.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Try some dubstep like all the popular tubers!
I dropped my comment ! Now I can’t find it !
i’ll take a prius there and plow through it!😂
Good luck with that
Not enough motor in most case jondz honda needs more ooomf.......
"driver capability" .....ie "SEND IT !"
🤣🤣🤣
Me going to the grocery store in vt
Makes me miss my 08 Pilot 4x4 she is in a better place now .. 🤦 unfortunately it was wrecked