Could the Tie Defender Have Saved the Empire?
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Thrawn's spirit watching the galaxy being completely conquered by the Yuuzhan Vong: "Who is the paranoid blue guy now, eh? WHO THE F*CK IS THE PARANOID BLUE GUY NOW?!"
This is an amazing comment. Love it lol
It ashamed that thrawn didn't make it if he survived we might see him clap the Vong back to where they came from
Thrawn's overrated, literally a mary sue type of villain, who's smart just because he's smart.
@@russianoverkill3715
Some people are just born with a high IQ. Considering that and the ultra-professional education Thrawn got, he's not a Mary Sue AT ALL
@@OptimusMaximusNero wears super unique white uniform with gold parts, is blue with red eyes, can somehow make a tactic by looking at a damn painting, year sure, not mary sue.
The TIE Defender had one fundamental flaw, it wasn't big enough for Tarkin's need to compensate for small things.
This comment is 3PO gold. Amazing.
The TIE Defender would be quite a threat to the rebellion if a certain GOVERNOR didn't blew up the entire fuel supply.
Oh my god, the scaling in Star Wars is so dissapointing, you're telling me those couple of small cisterns weren't easily replacable? Empire could've issues like 10 times more of that to Thrawn.
@@russianoverkill3715 The problem is Thrawn’s TIE Defender project was on the line. He went to Coruscant to plead his case to Palpatine to fund his project instead of Krennic’s Death Star plan. Everything was in order until Governor Pryce decided to destroy the entire fuel supply to kill a few Jedi so not only was the TIE Defender project scrapped in favor of the Death Star project, but she contributed to the fall of the Empire.
@@chrislaurent1137 bruh, those couple of cisterns was all he needed? With all Empire's might they could've given him 10 times of that.
@@russianoverkill3715 Except they’re not going to give those to him after that fiasco; his project’s compromised. The Empire’s not going to fund something that’s proven to be a liability (In their perspective).
@@russianoverkill3715
You know what, when you think about, I think I understand Pryce's reasons for destroying it.
"If I can just kill these 5 rebels. Rebels who have caused the destruction of multiple star destroyers, ships, and fighters killed thousands of imperial lives, and cost us billions of imperial credits, I would have saved my system from these renegades. We would not have to deal with these guys again!"
We know Kanan and Ezra were jedi and we all know what kind of issues jedi can cause if you seen this show, or the clone wars, or clone wars, or many forms of star wars media. Including the first movie.
The issue is that Thrawn is a Chiss agent and he feared that the death star could be used to threaten his people. It was sort of personal for him. The fuel cell's destruction pretty much handed Krennic a win in a red bow wrapped present. 🎁
It was never just about the defender.
Fun thought exercise: the Tarkin Doctrine was doomed to fail by design. Tarkin was trying to set the emperor up for failure so he could swoop in and take control, all while presenting himself up as an imperial loyalist, and a war hero, whom the citizens wouldn't question
I always assumed the sith obtained some advantage from fear, chaos, or death of others. Setting up a stable government would run counter to their needs, and give a good reason the ancient sith despised the idea. Too much work relative to the value returned, and it wasn't sustainable everywhere all at once.
the diffrence is that if tarkin tried to take over the defender project, thrawn would shrug and then move towards a new method of supporting the empires traditional fleet. he didnt let his ego and pride get into the way. he would see it as an honor, where krenich was a whiner and couldnt move on.
I mean, I would be pretty pissed if a project I worked on for 20 years was taken over by someone else and I received no credit for it.
Oh my god, I'm so tired of this circlejerk about "Thrawn was right", like, he's hand picked by Emperor, just go and pitch him the idea, there was nothing stopping him.
@@TheMock5000yea.
I suppose that Tarkin could've just politely asked Thrawn for control and Thrawn would've happily accepted,since that would mean he could return back to all important Yuuzhan Vong issue.
Which then makes me wonder what Thrawn would've thought up next.
True
"There's no way a tie defender could take out five TIE fighters in a straight up fight."
I play the original TIE fighter Defender of the empire and believe me five TIE fighters was very easy.
Videogame mechanics aren't canon.
You just need to give a mean look at a TIE fighter and it'll explode.
1 concussion missile
@@russianoverkill3715 You seriously mean to Tell me that a TIE defender with shields and hyperdrive and six laser cannons can't take out five TIE fighters? Even using the ship mechanics that are seen in rebels? a imperial pilot that cannot destroy five TIE fighters using a tie defender shouldn't be flying a tie defender in the first place!
@@highlander723 I don't know about that, I'm just saying don't take game mechanics as serious piece of lore.
Remember that Thrawn's primary underlying motivation was the protection of the Chiss Ascendency from outside threats such as the Vong, and that his service to the Galactic Empire was the best means towards that end. That is, a strong Galactic Empire allied with the Chiss Ascendency would be needed to repel external galactic invasions. Hence, the TIE Defender was probably developed by Thrawn not to just fight the rebels and pirates, but rather to ultimately defend against a massive external invasion like the Vong. In the Timoth Zahn's book Thrawn: Treason, Thrawn lends his TIE Defenders to a single Chiss warship that makes devastating use of the TIE Defenders using their hyperdrives against two larger Grysk Hegemony warships. I wouldn't be surprised if the Chiss Ascendency "inspected" the TIE Defenders while sitting in their warship hanger so that they could copy the design for themselves.
Exactly. If the Chiss Clawcraft from Legends ever show up in canon, they'll probably be *directly* inspired by TIE Defenders.
@@violetlight1548 Agreed. Imagine a claw craft single seat based on the defender, a 2 person heavy assault clawcraft, and a remote piloted tiny clawcraft interceptor using the tech thrawn learned from one of the grysk allies.
*Fun fact:* In Legends, Thrawn was initially planned to return as a clone, being Timothy Zahn's intention to write a novel in which Thrawn's clone would embark on an adventure with Ben Skywalker. Unfortunately, Zahn abandoned this fascinating plan after Mara was cheaply killed in the "Legacy of the Force" books.
Blame Karen Traviss and her disregard for lore and other authors' works.
Ehhh, I didn’t know this fact. :-[
Thrawn (especially in his Legends version) and Mara Jade are some of my all-time favorite characters, I’d have been really happy to get more Zahn’s books about them...
Big oof. Nothing says "I'm the asshole" like killing off another author's character in one's own story. Kill off your own characters, ass hat...
And he wanted to do a road trip in the unknown regions with Luke Mara and ben
That would have been a really cool dynamic.
Imagine how different the vong war would have gone w him commanding the remnant, w paellion as his second.
Thing about the Tie Defender program, is that it would have not only yielded a premium fighter, it would have also allowed for new technologies and developments to be applied to much cheaper units. Improving the overall effectiveness of fighters in general. Prototypes of high end devices don't just help in getting the absolute best device possible, but it also helps in figuring out how to more effectively utilize available resources.
Also, if you start mass producing Tie defenders, even if it is more expensive then an X-Wing on a direct comparison, I believe they would end up being pretty close in value, just because of the process in how they are built in a chain, versus X-Wings which would be less likely to be built off of a specialized assembly line.
I don't think Thrawn intended for it to be put everywhere. The tie interceptor stood a chance against most rebel fighters. I'd reckon that the defender would've been used in conjunction with fleets to crack rebels cells, crippling the rebel fighter assets while the unshielded interceptors would've stayed behind and serve as point defence for the cruisers.
@@Memelord1117 I agree, but the point I'm making is that the Tie Defender program would not only benefit the Tie Defender program. If the writer would have wanted Thrawn to actually sell this to the emperor, he would have probably added something to that effect in his sales pitch. XD
Upgrade the standard TIE interceptor with Defender grade shields, and you have a TIE that is 'Good Enough' for local defence. Reassign the TIE Ln to training roles (and emergency use) and promote skilled /dependable Veterans to pilot the TIE Defender, with decorated Veterans being further promoted to TIE Defender Elites, as and when they become available; and you have the basis of a robust and affordable system for their intended peacekeeping role. A TIE Interceptor Squadron led by a single TIE Defender would be a nightmare for any opponent short of a cruiser, especially those that panic-focus on the defender enabling the interceptors to wreck havoc. Meanwhile, 'loose' squadrons of TIE Defenders (elite or not) could operate independently of standard fleets to turn the Rebels' hit-and-fade tactics against them.
Now, if only Thrawn could promote a superior alternative to the Imperial-Class Star Destroyer...
@@carthienesdevilsadvocatenr2806 Good point, but equipping EVERY interceptor is too much of a cost for Palpatine. After seeing the Star wars squadron trailer, it shows that a good interceptor pilot has pretty good chances with a damaged interceptor against an X-wing, in atmospheric operations at least. In deep space, Defender squadrons are the much safer choice of deployment.
@@Memelord1117 My thought was that by mass-producing the shielding in mass quantities, you could significantly cut the cost per unit - which would in turn reduce the Defender's cost. I realise that it would increase the cost of the Interceptor, but I was thinking that the reduced cost of the Defender and increased survivability of the Interceptor (leading to fewer losses needing replacement) would likely compensate for that. Not to mention the greater value of experienced pilots vs rookies.
Sadly (or not) Palpatine seems to have failed to account for those factors in his calculations. Though if he really wanted cheap fighters deployed en masse he should have gone for Vulture Droids and 19 grand each...
Fun idea that I have never heard:
What if Palpatine, as he coordinated the Clone Wars, was also coordinating the Rebellion to maintain a darkness and feed the Dark Side. His goal was not victory or absolute control but absolute endless chaos and conflict.
So, a Death Star was more destructive and fed the Dark Side instantly. The Tie Defenders would end the conflict in a direct victory.
For a Sith, there is no win in victory. The win comes with desimation.
Honestly, I wish they did something like this with the New Republic in the Sequel Trilogy. They could of had it that Palpatine let Mon Mothma and the Rebel Alliance win in the end because he knew that her governing model was one that wasn’t effective in the long run, and in turn, the rising chaos from the criminal underworld and invading forces against the New Republic would allow the Imperial Remnants, the Chiss Ascendancy, or a Sith Cultist group, to come in and take back control from the New Republic, effectively setting it up such that even with his defeat, Palpatine still claims victory.
@@therealslimweegee That would be awesome.
It's an intriguing idea and essentially canon, if we see the Dark Side as somewhat sentient and the Sith as its deluded puppets. I don't think endless chaos and conflict were necessarily Palpatine's goals, as the tenets of the Sith definitely promote victory and absolute control and he fully believed that he was on the verge of realizing those ideals. But the Dark Side itself doesn't care at all for the egos of the power hungry or the delusional pseudo-religion of the Sith Order, it simply uses them to promote and feed upon chaos and suffering.
Saw Gerrera perfectly explained the mentality that formed the base of every rebel cell and ensured that the Empire was always going to lose when he said, "One fighter with a sharp stick and nothing left to lose can take the day."
Imagine a Star Destroyer would at least have three of these TIE Defenders leading a squad of regular TIEs?
What about TIE-Interceptors replace all Fighters?
Much cheaper and almost as effective
Flights of Defenders w a support craft would replace many Imperial patrols, similar to how the New Republic used X-wings
Having them mounted on Gonzanti's would be very effective. Four Defenders could tackle a lot of threats.
Now if they could be carried in Raider Corvettes then that's a very deadly Hunter Killer team.
Exactly don't replace the death star replace picket ships.
Maybe squadron leaders
Seem to remember the defender having 2 ion cannons and 4 lasers in the old Tie Fighter games.
Imagine if Thrawn still has a couple TIE Defenders, waiting to be used against the New Republic.
I like how Vader's take on the Defender was just "this, but more"
I will be honest, I thought the TIE Interceptor was a beautiful craft, but the TIE Defender looks amazing. And, what a bonkers beast!
I know the "what if one thing was different" is fun, it has the comic book appeal that if you change on little detail then the entire course of events would be complete different. The tie defender would not have saved the empire for the same reason the Tie Defender was not picked, it was not one lite choice but an endless stream of choice for over two decades that made the Empire as unstable and ineffective as it was. For the Empire to pick the Tie defender it would to have not been the empire, it would have made the decision to not build the death start not scarp the Republic military, not build super star destroyers, and not make the thousands of other decision all the way down for two decades.
Looking at the Imperial Star Destroyer, im honestly surprised the Empire DIDNT have the TIE defender as its main line fighter. Its almost perfectly suited to being the main fighter support for one. The reduced compliment of fighters would lend itself well to a quality over quantity approach. It would allow the ISD to absolutely lock down any system it entered instead of making the fighters a weak link.
Its hard to say exactly how much more powerful a defender is versus a standard TIE. 5 to 1 does seem like itd be a stretch based on cost, especially when its no longer just the absolute best pilots flying them. However 3 to 1 seems like itd be a pretty fair number between the extra guns and shields increasing the survivability. Since an ISD only holds one wing, you'd be getting the equivalent firepower of 3 wings.
Even leaving 2 squads to cover the ISD, youd have the starfighter combat power you ALREADY carry. That would then free the other 4 squadrons to be broken up into flights of 4, and using the hyperdrives, youd be able to deploy the equivalent of 12 squadrons to any system/systems in your patrol area.
It would also answer the question of "why get rid of the Venator" since you would be trading a great carrier middle of the road battleship for a great battleship middle of the road carrier. The hyperdrive nature of the Defender means you wouldnt have a NEED to maximize your carrier force anymore since youre no longer relying on one ship to bring in/recover a swarm of hyperdriveless starfighters. People rightly hate on the ISD for being the wrong solution to the current Imperial problems with starfighters, keeping the cheap hyperdriveless fighters of the Clone Wars but cutting the complent to 1/6th the force. But when you have 1/2 the power and theyre all able to fly without the carrier, suddenly shifting to the Battleship first makes MUCH more sense
There’s a few points that make the Defender’s production model (not the prototype, the full version we saw only at the end of Rebels with Vader’s personal input) truly amazing.
1. It’s the fastest starfighter at sublight speeds. Ever. The only thing that ever came close was the First Order’s special ops fighter, and that was explicitly stated to be using Defender parts.
2. It has shields able to endure turbo laser fire. To put that into perspective: imagine your F-15 Eagle could be shot point-blank by a battleship’s main gun and shrug it off.
3. It was specifically made to be easy to use. Vader insisted it be upgraded to be easier to fly, so much so that Thrawn managed to make it easy for EZRA to fly it. X-Wing familiarity be damned.
Major props to the developers of tie and xwing. They nailed it so often and hard that they elbowed their way into canon before that was a thing.
10:42 You can use the tractor beam to pull yourself to another target or keep yourself behind somebody and use it to stabilize yourself to them.
Corran Horn did that in Isard’s Revenge using the Defender’s tractor beam to tighten his turn around a space station in a training simulation
It was also used to "stun" enemy fighters long enough to get a target lock with the missiles, the Defender was a monster.
The TIE Defender was always a pleasure to fly in TIE Fighter and in X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter back in the 90's.
Compared to a TIE l/n, it adds 4 lasers and 2 ions, as well as 2 launcher tubes, can equip a tractor beam, has shields, has hyperdrive, and is 25% faster. This thing isn't very different in size - the manufacturing and assembly should not be much more difficult as a modular platform. (Though even in those games, a basic TIE l/n could also be fitted with hardpoints to add a couple missiles or bombs - which reminds me of photos of fighter jets with their full loadouts/payloads on display on the tarmac)
Upgrading even a portion of the starfighter fleet to TIE Defenders would have been a great strategy. But yeah, who's gonna be afraid of a little eyeball when there's a huge eyeball entering orbit?
Papa Palps really seemed to have liked the chaos. Fighting for one's project against other projects does seem to promote a fierce and passionate response - the project being one's life's work will be the best that they can muster. The chaos did create a lot of competition and uncertainty, had them at each others throats, which ultimately meant that they weren't trying to challenge Palps.
I think it did 200 with power settings on normal and 400 rerouted to engines. At those speeds I remember never using shields
I think if the TIE Defender were to be mass produced, a lot of those high-end features would be removed to save on production costs. The first thing I can see being taken off is the tractor beam. Instead of proton torpedoes AND concussion missiles, it would be proton torpedoes OR concussion missiles; maybe in a variable load-out. It can probably afford to lose 2 laser cannons too (probably the ones on the cockpit).
In the old game Star Wars Rebellion the TIE Defender was about 3 times more expensive to manufacture than even TIE Interceptors, but they were worth it. I hardly ever built the Death Star, too hard to defend without a massive fleet of escorts. But the TIE Defenders were a game changer. Stopped taking heavy losses in fighters as soon as I changed over to them as the standard. Made my fleets way more effective and resilient against Rebel fighters. I would eventually not even build Super Star Destroyers as they were just fire magnets. But I always had great anticipation for when the TIE Defenders would be developed by my Tech Researchers.
Not to mention Defenders didn't need to deploy from ships one by one like all the other fighters and when in fleets six Defenders are better than six Fighters, Bombers, or Interceptors.
Once I got Defenders, all my non-hyperdrive fighters got moved to planets
A better use for the funds released from Project Stardust would be to replace all TIE's with TIE Interceptors. In fact they could use some of the Defenders technology to upgrade them with shields. With the Defender functioning similar to the role of the Interceptor. Makes the regular imperial starfighter more survivability, allowing them to last long enough for Defenders to deal with the threat.
Honestly, the tie defender being a lead ship would make plenty of sense. It has the firepower to take down basically any other fighter in the galaxy, so if you built it as a 1 per wing setup, effectively screening and setting up advantageous positions for the defender with 5 or so supporting basic tiefighters, its a much more powerful deployment in a capital ship engagement. Then you can also send out just a single squad of defenders on extended patrols due to the hyper drive ability the frame has. A squad of 3 defenders doing a single disabling run at the larger crusier and then hyperspace jumping away to their destroyer, is effectively using the rebel's tactics against them.
The last Galactic Conquest I did in Empire at War, I sent the main bulk of my fleet to where the main bulk of the Rebel fleet was, wiped it out. But I forgot about the Consortium, and they attacked one of the planets I had producing TIE Defenders en masse.
I had 120 squadrons of TIE Defenders defending the system with more well on the way, and managed to not only stave off but wipe out the Consortium's fleet with minimal casualties that were quickly replenished by other planets I put to work making more Defenders.
They had torpedoes and ion cannons for anti-capital ship duty, and they were able to engage Rebel and Consortium starfighters without any problem.
The only real problem Defenders have in Empire at War are things like the CR90 Corvette and the Crusader Gunship, but in swarms, even those ships can't stand up to the torpedoes.
I don't see the TIE Defender replacing the other TIE models, I see it as a means of force projection. What that means is you can have the main bulk of your fleet away engaging larger forces like mine did, and the Defenders are much cheaper and quicker to build than having a Star Destroyer, some Tartan Patrol Cruisers and some smaller Destroyers protecting your planets. I mean, in the game it costs a lot to build a Star Destroyer whereas you can crank out TIE Defenders for 1/7th of the cost, and send those to defend your territories further away.
No wonder palpatine bankrupted his government
Another thing id like to add about the defender replacing regular tie fighters...you could launch a full seperate wing(or smaller detachment) that would patrol around their designated isd while rotating out with other ships/pilots at the isd after a reasonable shift time...would allow more fighters at all times because those ships that are out patrolling arent a part of the compliment stored on the ship so when scrambled those patrolling ties could be brought back(quickly due to the hyperdrives)
Also a sector had way more then just 50 planets of 50 systems. Lothal sector alone had 1,000 star systems so that’s like 5-8 thousand worlds. During the republic sectors were as small as 50 systems per sector but those sectors expanded as the republic grew. And after the empire rose those sectors grew even bigger and new sectors were made.
I saw someone online propose developing hyperdrive rings that regular TIES and Interceptors could hook up to (similar to old Jedi starfighters) to give them more range while the Defenders are being phased in. Sounds like a decent compromise, and you won't be wasting the old TIES.
Have every Imperial fleet include a few Interdictors as well, and the Rebels would be screwed.
Certainly it could make an ISD more defendable if the hangars were mixed 1 Tie Defender for every 3 Tie Fighters.
Maybe 1 squadron each of Defenders and Bombers, with 2 squadrons each of Interceptors and Fighters. Have a decent mix of craft for various operations.
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Came as fast as i could. Empire, Thwran this is the dream
Luke & Han's plot armour is too thick for a TIE Defender, but it might have killed Chewy sooner.
heh, Han had plot armor but it didn't stop his own sub gutting him.
You have the best Star Wars content on YT, keep it up brother
I definitely did enjoy flying a TIE Defender in the DOS game TIE Fighter. Always made me feel like a badass.
Essentially if Thrawn had his way
The galaxy would feel a lot like the grim dark Milk Way
I thought the TIE Defender had 4 laser cannons, 2 ion cannons, and one each of a Proton Torp and Concussion Missile Launcher.
Though, the launchers can be done away with, as they'd be too hard to realistically fit onto the craft.
Also I’d love to see thrawns own design of a new star destroyer variant!!
The TIE Defender was great, but an empire that would adopt it is not the empire of Star Wars. All of the decisions would have been different and the galactic civil war would already be completely different if the rebels existed at all.
Honestly, if they were gonna send all the Venators to the breakers, they could have used the material recovered for point-defenses on the all the other SD classes.
Even without the benefits of scaling up production, a Vindicator and a squadron of Defenders costs less than a tenth of what an Imperial-II does. Imagine what a task force of three Vindicators, an Immobilizer, and three or four squadrons of Defenders could accomplish.
The problem is that unless the mindset changes just having the Defenders available isn't going to do anything in the long run.
If the TIE Defender were to enter into full scale production; then the hyperdrive would be omitted because of Imperial "control issues". One of the outcomes would reduce the cost/unit. As a result, more "neutered" TIE Defenders. In the bigger picture, small units supported by TIE Interceptors would be assigned to ships in the fleet. Larger units would be assigned to assets with higher value like Scarif. Yes, the Rebellion would take steps backward. However, the Empire would fall because its worse enemy is not the Rebellion. It would implode from within. Perhaps, "the rule of two" would kick in; consequently, Darth Vader would assassinate his superior.
Cost per unit: B-2 Spirit, Zumwalt, F-22 and F-35; All vehicles that saw cost as a problem because order size went down so much.
Might have to consider just which stats one should use for that as the Defender's stats have been all over the place. Sometimes it's just superior to most other fighters but in others it is just insanely superior.
Something else to consider; Economy of scale. Usually when you produce a good in large quantity, you optimize both the design as well as the production/assembly line. I think that the price of the Defender could have been cut by 15 to 20% if it had been produced like that.
Tie defenders and star destroyers with death star lasers would have annihilated any rebellion if put into full production!
The only thing that'll be annihilated is Emperor Palpatine's Credit Score
@@chrislaurent1137 no, he already did that with the two death stars!
The only thing those super weapons would annihilate would be any attempt at mainteining a cohesive lore.
@@nicktechnubyte1184 True! That and one of them wasn’t fully paid off
@@chrislaurent1137 also, he didn't listen to the legitimate arguments made by the architect of the death star's exhaust port! If he was told to account for space wizards, we'd probably still have a death star!
The TIE defender has the same problem as the F-22 in the USAF, its the top of the line fighter, nothing beats it 1v1 but its so much more expensive than other fighters that superiors are skeptical of using it in mass.
At 10:55 you included the TIE Defender Elite being stolen because the stormtroopers guarding it decided to run off chasing a pair of Loth-cats. As long as the Rebellion can find two Loth-cats per fighter, the Empire's entire TIE Defender fleet would be quickly lost.
Yes, next video
The Tie Defender is not about scaring people into surrender, it is about making people know they need to surrender. The Star Destroyer was great but it had holes and flaws. This would have filled in those flaws and that is a value far more scary then just big ship hit other big shit hard.
Think about it this way: the TIE Defender cost around twice an X-Wing while it was in limited production. If it had entered full mass-production, it likely would have been cheaper than an X-Wing. And the Empire originally intended to replace its TIEs with the X-Wing anyway, so the cost wasn't so much of an issue as it seems on the surface.
Non-stop quality
This is the most logical twist
Thrawn : These are my New Tie defenders , My entire Star destroyer compliment is made of tie Defenders
Rebels in Stolen modified Tie Defenders : Hello Blue Mother focæR-CENSOR!- I see you have skill issue
I wonder and hope to see a bunch of these tie defenders in thrawns movie
Question, what if instead of TIE Defenders, why not TIE Avengers?
Long live the mighty Gungan empire
The biggest advantage the Tie Defender gives, is the ability for small, remote outposts and worlds, to be able to defend themselves against pirates and insurgents. We know that star destroyers can't be everywhere, and the most common ships given to a backwater planet is a Gozanti with four tie fighters. Replace that with three Tie Defenders, and you have a force that can take on just about any pirate ship, or insurgent ship (for the early GCW period). Not only that, but pursuit would be delayed with a Gozanti, as it would have to re-embark it's fighters before jumping to hyperspace, by that point, it's likely that your target has already made a second jump, and is gone. A small flight of defenders though? If you can estimate where the target jumped to, you can immediately persue, meaning that pirates and insurgents couldn't do what the Tie Fighter allowed them to do, lick their wounds. It would also be good for recon, and with missles and torpedos in the arsenal, it would also be able to take out rebel warships, the same as rebels could take out imperial warships. That would likely be far more effective at pacifying people than the death star, as there is only one death star, and one good sabotge team could take it out of action. But, there would likely be many defenders had it gone into full production, and it could show up anywhere. For the rebels, having an opponent that can truly match, or exceed them at the one advantage they had in fleet actions, their fighter corps, it would likely make people less than inclined to join. A deathstar? Well, that's far away, and there's no way they'd use it here. But a defender? Well, it could be on any carrier in the fleet, show up at any world, be stationed at any base.
In a galaxy with many excellent Space Superiority Starfighters, the Defender was the first Space Dominance Starfighter. With the Galactic Empire's potential to take advantage of economies of scale, replacing Project Stardust with the Defender could have paid immense dividends. IMO, it would have been best used in discrete units that supplemented lesser ships. Use standard TIEs for local patrol and escort duties, Interceptors as the primary battle fighter, and Defenders as highly mobile elite squadrons for achieving decisive victories.
I loved the TIE Defender in TIE Fighter!!
Having flown the Tie Defender in the original Tie Fighter, if memory serves, it can take not just take on 5 Tie fighters, but 5 X-wings, or 5 star destroyers probably.
Maybe they could have used the tie defender tech to give tie interceptors shields like the defender so it could operate that way and you wouldn’t need so many defenders.
I think the tie defender was just a small piece of a much larger plan of Grand Admiral Thrawn.
Beautifully put. The TIE Defender would've turned the Imperial military into a competent and deadly force and I assume that's what everyone advocating for it want.
But at the core of the problem, the Empire's biggest problem was always their management. Oppression, brutality, use of fear, exploitation, a cut-throat culture.
Had the Empire actually created more civil development, stability and security, the people most likely would've grown used to living under an authoritarian.
I mean, take a look at Naboo, the planet is run by the monarchy of a queen, yet the people are happy and prosperous. None of them want to change that.
Yet Palpatine's sadism and joy for oppression helped cultivate this extremist culture where the ones up above *love* to step on the masses below. *Looking at you, Tarkin.*
Never mind star destroyers, the place where the Tie Defender would _really_ have excelled IMO would be on ships that could only carry a squadron or two of fighters, rather than a half-dozen or so.
Keep the venator star destroyer, acclamator, and republic starfighters until upkeep becomes more expensive than making new. Make the nebulon b and imperial light cruiser your support ships. Once the venator needs replaced make a new carrier and support cruiser focusing on automated crew requirements, shields, and point defense weaponry (Lasers, missile emplacements, ion canons, flak). Make Tie defender and remote piloted tie interceptors. For policing make a patrol ship based on the VCX-100. Create missile boats and torpedo corvettes. Include lancers for designated anti-fighters. additional Make Interdictors.
The empire doesn’t need to replace all their ties, just have a few tie defender squadrons on standby for those organized rebel cells that are too tough for the standard ties.
The tie defender really embodies it's elite status.
After making the tie defender you could make cheaper versions by standardising parts, better manufacturing techniques, improve factory output etc. Like how the germans had the mp38 and then made the mp40 which was just as good and cheaper with using things such as stamped metal.
at 4:34 you said it couldn't take on 5 TIE fighters and win but i really could though
I remember in the Tie fighter game there were ion cannons on it.
The Defender could have prolonged its death, but not stopped it. The Imperial Navy also needed Lancers. Flying 1 of these in the 90's game "Tie Fighter" was A DREAM! Damn, that was fun!
Another thought: A full adoption of the Defender could have lead to a shift in imperial dogma, focusing more on small, but powerful ships instead of massive Star Destroyers and cheap Tie Fighters.
The Defender could have lead to more Tie Models following the same principle.
Imagine a Tie Bomber based on the Defender....
Generation Tech- 5:51 it costs 300000 "Dollars"
Me- wait what
Using this Swiss-Army-Tie as a system patrol craft, etc. Is a pretty good idea and does to show what the empire could have done with competent leadership. Although I would have switched out a few of the blasters with ion cannons. Imagine if the "disposable" Ties were droids or more Lancers were produced.
Cheers👏🏻
As per the original design,it had four laser canons and the two upper ones were ion canons.
The chin mounts were purely munition launchers.
What would've saved the Empire is having Palaptine be anything but Emperor.
Imagine if they used tie defenders and Venator class star destroyers with a few isds like a carrier strike group in our own universe.
I feel like a Tie Defender could definitely handle five Tie Fighters at once. Especially in the hands of a pilot trained for it.
two points I would like to bring up
A. if the defender was more commonplace, I could see rebels and deserters taking the ships away in order to bolster the rebel fleet and rebellion as a whole, it's a powerful ship and would be very useful, missions to steal defenders may become a commonplace idea
B. the defender might allow the empire to live, but all it would do was bide time. and unless palps had some plan to deal with discontentment of the people, it would all be for nothing, a ship is a ship, it's the people who fly them that make them deadly or useful, if the hearts and minds are not on your side, then you are doomed to fall
The worst way to deploy Defenders would be in a group of other slower TIE fighters - it’s power is its speed and agility and a small squadron would have held space superiority easily, if the Empire ever bothered training their pilots
One big thing it would have done is not cause as huge an exodus of competent Imperial officers who saw the Death Star as horrible as it was. A lot would be lost without tactical and strategic expertise joining them.
Pretty sure a squadron of TIE Defenders could take out a wing of Rival TIE craft in the X-Wing or Wrath Squadron books
The mere realization of the deaths are being around almost fractured the rebel alliance. They were terrified as I’m sure the rest of the galaxy was.
Well, he actually had the approval of Vader after Vader had the chance to fly one in battle (source: the canon thrawn trilogy books) and he told thrawn how to improve on the design for pilots while making it more cost-effective. So if those rebels hadn't forced the governor to blow up the defender factory to kill one puny Jedi, then they very well may have been the new standard elite ties
In other words, the Galactic Civil War will lasted longer similar to the Eighty Years' War in our world. Wow! Imagine the Empire and the Rebels Alliance have to fight each other that long and the Empire ended up being forced to recognize the revolted planets as independent worlds because they cannot efforted more manpower and resources? That will be such an interesting scenario if you asked me.
I think a better way to look at the cost issue isn't as much whether a Defender can take out 5 regular TIE fighters (I think it can btw), but I think it's more about during an engagement with enemy forces, what kind of losses are you looking at? If you only lose 1 Defender for every 5 or 6 regular TIE fighters, then the cost would seem to justify itself. Cheap and easy to manufacture ships are fine and all, but if you are losing them at a rate of 10 to 1 (or higher) vs another ship in your fleet, then switching to the other ship would justify the cost difference if you take fewer losses. Yes, there are other factors like upkeep, but with the Defender, the fact that the ship has a hyperdrive and does not need a carrier of some kind to be deployed, makes it much more flexible when it comes to costs. Whether it was a TIE Advanced or a Defender, once the rebels were able to deploy superior fighters with shields and hyperdrives, the Empire erred by not fielding similar craft that could keep up with them in every way in order to maintain fighter superiority.
What if the Galactic Empire continued the Clone Trooper Program with a new genetic template? I guess we already saw this in Legends with the Spaarti method taking over and the addition of multiple templates, but I like to hear how others think history would go.
It is weird that the two options were massive super weapon capable of planetary destruction, or a beefed up version of their existing fighter
They sure had their place in the Imperial fleet in the EU; dogfighting a TD is very tricky unless you've got a Missile Boat
What if the death star didnt have a literal golf hole that destroys it would be a great question
Hi Allen !
A pair of tie fighter on patrol can easily be taken out but a sole tie defender can easily go on the offensive and survive during a routine patrol.
Not to mention the empire have plenty of skilled pilots that can take advantage of the defender. With Thrawn elite defender for the top aces. The rebels wouldn’t even stand a chance. Especially when rebels initially had Star fighter advantage over the empire tie defender would just be game changing.
So, what you’re saying is…
Instead of having a flying Stormtrooper, we should have a flying Clone Trooper?
I don't think a full production run of the TIE Defender would have broken the rebellion, at worst it would have resulted in a shift in tactics and vehicle procurement. More TIE Defenders just means a higher chance of them falling off the back of cargo ships and finding their way into Rebel hands. Best case for the Rebels is that they analyze the fighter and use the information to create an even better generation of craft for themselves.
Focusing on traditional weapons would have only caused an arms race between factions as they tried to one up each other.
I’d love to see a What if… style movie/show where the Defender Program won out over the Stardust Program.
The law of escalation would have taken effect. The tie defender would have necessitated the rebels to make breakthroughs in tech which may have resulted in the E-wing being created earlier, or some other breakthrough that vastly increased the power of the X-wing.
Comparing the TIE Fighter to the TIE Defender is like comparing a Mitsubishi Zero to a Messerschmitt ME-262.
Cost of the clone army was the issues
A venator full of defenders would be perfect then