although i can see dalla dalla as the fake haters type, lyrics like “keep your chin up” “just keep on dreaming” make it so they are talking to teens who have to deal with bad peers and society’s pressure. It makes sense as itzy were teens at the time and it’s believable
on the other hand, meow gets more of a hiphop inspiration, where the fake haters actually seem like enemies and there’s a lot of money flex. I know some of the members were famous prior, but some of the girls just couldn’t sell it. I think at the end of the day, a concept may or may not be the most popular, but u can make it work - it’s literally the same as acting - you have to sell, you have to be believable
With ITZY’s music it’s as though they were singing through the lens of the audience. We could relate because we all know what it’s like to feel judged and it was meant as self empowerment. Whereas with meovv and others it comes off like they’re basically saying you hate us because we’re in this group and you’re jealous. lol.
Idk why but the title reminds me of soobin saying “Yeonjun among other trainees took my attention because he actually rapped about his feelings. Everyone else was rapping about their haters but they have no haters, they are trainees.”
this is the reason why I love BTS´s music, all 7 have produced their own songs and it feels so genuine, especially sons like spring day just reach your soul the way a "fake haters" concept groups like Ikon never do
@@aemusic_xoxo TXT was not mentioned in the video but op brought them up. It's what we call "example" to illustrate an opinion, I know that public school did you so ferociously dirty, but come on, just use your brain more.
@@AnahíViturino I meant in THIS comment. Where do you see BTS anywhere in THIS COMMENT? Also, using the “I know your school failed you🥺” as your comeback is mad crazy. If we also talking about education, you forgot an “an” between “call” and “example”.
tbh i don't think dalla dalla fits the "fake haters" concept. dalla dalla's message reads to me as "everyone should be authentically themselves regardless of criticism or bullying," while the fake haters songs like meow read as "i have more money than you and i am more successful than you." the shallowness makes it significantly more unappealing to me, along with the unbelievable notion that they had a significant enough amount of haters pre-debut that they had to center their debut song around flexing on them and fighting them off. it feels disingenuous.
exactly i dont think songs have to always have exact concepts placed on them anyway and ppl in the comment section just seem to think it has to have a label on it all the time.
@@dean.mcmxcvi Nah he totally wrote the ‘hit that bass drum’ lyric. he been using that since Big-bang’s MADE album and it’s been nearly 10 YEARS. Bro’s got dedication 💀💀💀
Each member of this group was already rich/successful before their debut though, whether through their own hard work, the hard work of their parents, or both.
The fake haters concept wasn't what was off-putting to me. I've fallen out of love with materialism and "flexing on my haters" as a sentiment in music. I dont think these girls are obsessed with flexing yens and dollars on their haters. Also, i never want to hear a 16 year old say she and her friends are going to shake something. In general, i like more pop focused tracks so meovv is just not for me.
@@jordantamah9408 Yeah definitely! I would say things like “flexing on haters” and materialism still exist within the unbelievable concept, it’s not going to be for everyone and that’s okay, but other lyrics are just universally inappropriate for younger idols to be singing about in the first place
I don't think they're flexing their money on haters, they're flexing how their performances are so good that the performances are worth paying lots of money for. I don't have an issue with the shake line because there is a long established norm of shaking body parts, including butts, in dances in a non-sexual manner. Like, I did the Macarena in school and the butt shaking was a fun point of emphasis. Phineas and Ferb has a bee butt shaking song. The "bring cash" sentiment however does raise an eyebrow for me. I don't think the writers fully understood the subtext of that part.
@@bopete3204 Kpop is a multi-trillion dollar industry, it's time to stop excusing writers for massive productions for failing to understand subtext that any single average Westerner could properly perceive and avoid for $0.00
i don’t really agree in terms of sound preference. as someone who’s been a fan of blackpink for 6 years and is now following babymonster and meovv very closely as they are essentially the successors to my 14 year old self’s idols, i feel a lot of nostalgia in the production and lyrical content of both babymonster and meovv’s music. i personally don’t really mind if a song has a lot of flexing in it. an issue i do have, however is the styling choices for babymonster and, as you mentioned, inappropriate lyrics. that “shake sumn” line really caught me off guard knowing that ella is just 15 years old. while “shake something” could also mean anything, not just their bodies, the style of the music, use of aave to abbreviate ‘something’ to ‘sumn’ and given the other lyrics in the song, it’s clear that is not what the lyricist meant. both of the new girl groups to come out of yg and theblacklabel consist of mostly minors and almost every member in both groups is under the age of 21 (the exception being babymonster’s ruka who is 22). now hypothetically if the maknaes in these groups were 18/19 and the oldest members were way older it wouldn’t be as big of a problem as seen with groups like mamamoo, blackpink, (g)i-dle and kiss of life, all girl groups whose members entirely consisted of legal adults (although technically not “grown women” as some stans like to claim) when they debuted and debuted with a more mature concept that fit their ages well. however these are literal children. they need more age appropriate concepts because honestly, it’s a bit weird. i enjoy the song but i hope for their following releases they ease up on the forced maturity at least until ella is 18
If 16 y/o girls can wear bikines at the beach, why can't they sing bput shaking things? Isn't there hypocrisy somewhere there? Either teen girls should dress more age appropriately (not clothes meant for adult women) or they can express their s##uality, seeing as they're already dress s##xy.
the difference betwen itzy and meovv is that itzy kind of encourages listeners to be proud of themselves and be confident, saying that they won't change etc. it kind of refrences the norms in society where being yourself is often criticized. in meovv's case however, the girls are talking about money, fame, brands etc. while they just debuted so it doesn't really make sense. i feel like older groups singing about how strong they are in terms of concept, money and charts makes sense because yeah it's true and they're highlighting it because they can. not everyone likes that, but it's facts after all. that's what i think personally.
Bragging about money and fame is an unrelatable theme and giving this type of songs to literal kids who've just made their debut makes it even more unbelievable
i don't have anything against the "fake haters" concept when a group is already consolidated, but like we don't even know who meovv is, how are they already talking about haters and being rich? if this was a 3rd comeback or something, maybe it would make sense, but as a debut? it's kinda cringe actually.
yh its the cringey aspect of the song itself than the conceptual lyrics. it feels like a mashup of previous songs for other groups thrown in one because theres no real flow or rhyme in it. it gives half arsed vibes as well like r song writers really that lazy that they cant do no more full songs or high notes? or auto tune it all in some cases.
Isnt the "fake haters" concept exclusively about debuts? katseye, itzy and meovv like he mentioned. When a group is already consolidated pretty usually it means they're haters arent "Fake" anymore
MEOW just feels like a teenager's made up scenario that they manifest into a song. It's extremely annoying and doesn't make sense when they've only just debut.
@@Gay-Transformers smooth brain fr. You can just shut yourself in a box and only interact with stuff you already like. That would be counterproductive in never making you discover anything new. But also, you’re allowed not to like stuff and to criticize it. Idk if you’re like 12 or if you’ve just never done anything out of your comfort zone
My problem with imaginary haters these days is more that it usually comes with this “bad ass girl” image that is just incredibly cringe and unbelievable coming from groups that are predominantly minors. Like girl come on you can’t even drive, why are you lying on a Lambo talking about flexing on your haters? Yeah, no. IMO Debut was just a bad song, and on that note Espresso is simply incredibly catchy, I honestly didn’t actually listen to any of the lyrics other than the hook for the first three months I was looping it.
I think the “imaginary haters” thing can actually work in a concept’s favor like when a group is trying to break boundaries in some way or veer into a direction that isn’t considered easily marketable to the general public. It’s part of why XG is so successful, they have openly stated that breaking boundaries is a part of their concept. I also wanted to point out that one of XG’s members shaved their head in real time for a music video which is WILD like even in the West that act is associated with negative stereotypes concerning women in the music industry (Britney Spears anyone?.) However, it has negative ties in the East as well due to an incident involving a Japanese idol that was formerly a member of the group AKB48 who was forced to shave her head and apologize on national tv for having a boyfriend. They’re trying to break pre-conceived ideas about idols as a whole which means that, whether intentionally or not, their audience is automatically setting them apart from everything that Gen Z hates about the music industry.
@@alexandragabitto2573 I’ve just recently been getting into XG’s discography, and I agree! Cocona shaving her head is such an insane commitment to the concept 😭 I know she was thinking about doing it anyways, but it still commands such a sense of respect for their artistic identity
@@choujimi Honestly? The fact that the general public label what XG are doing as “art” at all (the comments section of their MVs should be STUDIED) is a testament to how they’ve successfully managed to change people’s ideas about pop music. On the one hand it’s frustrating because no one says this about TWICE or other K-POP girl groups, but on the other they definitely deserve applause for being the only girl group atm who are committing so clearly and openly to their concept. XG was really shouting “long live Asian female supremacy” with their entire chest on that track lol 😂
Idk how much they are breaking boundaries when they fit into idol standards and are famously cherry picking aspects of kpop while saying with their full chest they are not kpop rather global. But then again its similar to gidle, idk how truly feminist they are when they continuously fit into unrealistic standards set for women.
@@havensohn3821 True! Radical feminist ideology has never had a place in the public eye and the KPOP industry even less. It’s why XG stands out for just saying, clearly and specifically, that they think girls kickass instead of the super vague “I’m proud of being myself!!” default that groups often go for. Said statement never explicitly addresses the implication that people have a really hard time “being themselves” in society because they’re terrified of the hate that would bring upon them due to oppressive social norms. However, I think the positive response that XG has managed to receive is a sign that things are slowly but surely changing. The world deserves better, but I also understand that you always have to take baby steps with conservatives…and KPOP is pretty dang conservative despite what people may think.
@@choujimiCOCONA actually is a spiritual human to begin with like sometimes I can’t understand how can a 18 yo girl have such an immense power and dedication she literally stated that line in her verse in WOKE UP “ little girl with a big mouth “ hold such a big weight so she decided that she can go on a whole new journey about conveying that women don’t have to live up to the high beauty standards and you can love yourself no matter what , and I believe her role model “ LAURYEN HILL” plays a lot in her personality and the way she thinks that woman is also a spiritual human too
I think the biggest problem with this concept is when you hear it from a bunch of kids it just sounds dumb as hell. Speaking about meow's debut specifically, these girls just debuted, ppl barely know them yet, we're all just curious what they'll be like and it's just a bunch of teens complaining. I know that's not what the song is about, however it did give me that kind of vibe. Obv it's teddy the dude might not have produced the song but he did approve it. Hope for the girls' sake they get better music. As for the concept itself, it gives me second hand embarrassment. Like anything would be better than that imo.
Honestly, I do not think it's the fake haters concept that makes this song disappointing. It's the lack of anything. The song is just a couple minutes of nothing. The girls ate with what they had, but they're not enough to fully save the lack of substance in the song. The lyrics aren't even technically bad (honestly, I don't think "bad" lyrics exist), there's just so little to them. Also, I see Dalla Dalla as more of a confidence/empowerment song as opposed to a fake haters concept.
yeah like dalla dalla's lyrics are just a tad corny, but 3 members were still teens (ryujin and chaeryeong were 17-18 and yuna was 16) while yeji and lia were just barely adults, so it made sense for them to sing about following their own path and be themselves. meovv was just whatever, and the fact they're almost all teens singing about brand deals and money while trying to look fierce didn't help lmao. good for them for working with what they had tho.
and the flexing of wealth and money will always put me off. especially for newly debut group and it i feel it will only set them up in the long run. it just presents them as shallow and it is something i dont want for these girls and its something their fans cant seem to understand when i say that
Kpop idols nowadays don't debut for the arts or the charts but for international fashion brands and tiktok. That line about speaking french in the song was put there so that it would go viral on social media. I'm lowkey glad bailey sok didn't debut in meovv cause it would be a waste of her and her talent.
i said it before that i feel meovv not being formed from a survival show meaning there ARE no haters is weird, especially at debut (but now that they do have haters (a lot of them i fear) the song actually kinda fits now), but in retrospect to dalla dalla, i feel the reason meow was panned a lot more than dalla dalla (besides the changing times) is that dalla dalla is like... actually good. alongside the lyrics being not just "haters can cope seethe and mald" but also "i love myself" and "hey keep your chin up, we got your back", like meow is just "shut up. im rich, hot, and iconic, yall hate us cuz you aint us" and... girls, you are NOT LALISA??? YOU ARE NOT SOLAR??? LIKE IS THERE MORE TO IT???? you see, lisa's money and solar's colours ("and say it, im sick im hot, louder louder, im sick im hot im gorgeous so back 🖕") work because they've proven themselves already, they're essentially flexing their success. meovv doesn't have a) billions of wons and yens and dollars to drop on us nor b) a motivational underlying theme that justifies the fake haters nor c) a fun and good song that makes speaking to the fake haters fun. fake haters and other vibrant, quirky, or even nostalgic aspects of kpop MOST DEFINITELY have a place today, but it's all comes to execution. its why itzy (despite the overhate) is still enjoyed, its why stayc is so beloved, its why zerobaseone can drop a song like feel the pop and everyone goes "OH YEAHHH!!!", its literally how the pirate concept of stray kids and ateez function, it's not JUST about meaning alone, but the presentation and execution of said concept. we need the kpopy kpop songs that kpop more than some pop songs could ever pop! i can totally get down with fake hater concept, but the song has to be like, something you'd wanna listen to more than once. does not need to pander to everyone, can be experimental, but NEEDS TO BE ENJOYABLE MUSIC, if not for me, for someone out there! meovv, unfortunately, is not that to most people, not yet. the execution is mid, which then piles on top of the western market expectations for a perfect storm of "GIRLS PLEASE WHAT HATERS YOU JUST GOT HERE", a storm even i was part of because girls, please, what haters, you just got here (which again, they now have plenty of haters to flip off, so maybe that was the goal?). i hope meovv succeeds and improves and we get a babymonster-type comeback (forever is a slight bop i fear). if they do stick to the fake hater concept, they gotta like, execute it better, and frankly if the song is good, people will overlook the cheesiness of a 5th gen group that debuted barely a month ago telling their haters to get bent again, meovv has real haters now so maybe at this point it isnt fake hater concept now... its le sserafim's crazy (but again, meow is not as good!) edit: i'd also like to add that meow isnt even THAT BAD. like it's not like, downright horrendous, but it's no where near as good as it couldve been, hence my opinion is a solid 5/10. i might relisten just to see if my opinion changes (like it takes a few listens sometimes for me to fall in love with a new group) edit 2: 4:30 WAIT TEDDY DIDNT PRODUCE THIS SONG??? edit 3: you asked if i engage with kpop differently than other genres and... yeah lolll. idk one thing that always has my kpop stan status in a twist is when someone says kpop songs are shallow and meaningless, that's its fake and hollow and manufactured and mass-produced and lazy. so i feel it has subconsciously caused me to analyze kpop songs for meaning, artistic intention, idol involvement in the production process, lore, and more solely because my friends who listen to chappell roan and NWA mitski and Tyler The Creator and the like, some (not most but some) of them look down on kpop claiming it has "lackluster lyrics and meaning" (which could be tied to racism and stigma of non-English media in Western society, the modern expectation of all media to be deep and meaningful for a increasingly complex world that leaves little room for media that does not seek to instill some lesson or moral or politic in you, and the general standoffish opinion a lot of music fans have towards the kpop industry because it is so much more structured and yes, manufactured than say, hiphop or pop music. Pair in the fact that most boy bands/girl groups/boy groups/girl bands in any society are FORMED by labels rather than individuals coming together and kpop's prioritisation of music groups over soloists/individual artists, the squeaky clean image most artists and idols in the kpop industry maintain to adhere to Korean societal norms for public figures, and the long-running superiority complex hiphop and rock artists AND fans have had against essentially all other genres of music, and you can see how that image of "plastic, cheap, Asian music" has become a forefront of the minds of people who are too close-minded to realise their viewpoint is horribly Anglocentric. Hence me (and many other kpop fans) being raised in such a society working to glean as much meaning as possible from a song like Red Flavour or I AM or Ate That or PUPPET SHOW solely so we can justify to ourselves that the music we enjoy is not the "plastic, manufactured, shallow trash" that those around us say it is, and therefore justify being in this genre/industry/community and engaging in it. So when a song like meow or see that or supernova comes along that doesn't necessarily insert meaning at the most obvious locations (see chou's breakdown of what (phonetic) "byur byur byur" means, and how it's a wordplay you need to know more than just English to understand, or chou's "reviewing bad english in kpop" videos) it risks getting hate for not fitting the Western standard of music lyricism that Western audiences have been trying to hold kpop to. Not saying a poorly written kpop song gets a free pass, no no no, but it's recognising that lyricical styling and meaning is not a universal standard, and will change based on the genre, the artist, the producers, the language, the region, and SO MUCH MORE. Im going to try to do it, and I'd hope more people would as well. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. edit 4, 2 weeks later: OKAY THE WAY THIS SONG SNUCK UP AND GREW ON ME WAS UNEXPECTED AND SO FAST?????? i legitimately listened to meow a second time just to see if my opinion remained the same, and the WAY EVERYTHING MADE SENSE FOR ME LIKE ????????? OKAY MEOVV I GUESS YOU ATE????? like i fear i've played it 8 times in the past 2 weeks since i commented this, so uhhhh, guess meow is a slay for me. my comment still definitely holds up, but i did not expect to start liking this song 😭 like i still think the song isnt the best, but i can no longer deny, it's catchy.
For me, you hit the nail on the head with the Dalla Dalla vs Meow comment. Dalla Dalla is just a lot more relatable and thus a lot more believable than Meow because it’s about self confidence and believing in yourself and not just being richer and more famous than your supposed “haters“
i mean i wouldn’t say the the girls got zero hate before debuting after the lineup was announced they got criticized for everything bc people were expecting bailey seok to debut with them but she didn’t (especially marin got a lot of hate for her visuals)
Man, for me, the only thing I can say is that the whole concept seems like those rich teenage girls in school who act all "people hate us because they wanna be like us but they can't, cuz we're sooooo hot and iconic" and no one can stand them because of that. I am not saying anything against their characters because I KNOW its just a concept, just that it gives me flashbacks to girls i went to school with
The comment about meow not being teddy ENOUGH is very valid imo. At least as it regards to the production. Teddy’s instrumentals are beautiful imo. I listen to the instrumentals of BP songs more than the actual songs these days. When you listen to BM or meovv’s instrumentals they’re quite bare bones and uninteresting. As much as I think teddy really struggles in the lyrics department I believe part of why he’s been able to keep doing the teddy formula is because instrumental wise… his work is always great
The line with "I'm gonna shake some", makes me cringe so harder than the fake hater. Like why are children singing that line. I don't mind the fake hater if it makes sense within the song (and the song sounds good). In Babymonster's forever, the make money and I'm better than you mentally is so out of left field, it gave me whiplash. If these parts were in korean I wouldn't have minded. So many Kpop song I would probably not like if I could understand what they were singing.
@@desirebotha Yeah “shake sumn” is inexcusable in any capacity for a group with young idols to be singing about. It doesn’t matter the context / language the lyrics are in
Omg reallllllllll about bm forever. Like the song kinda doesn’t make sense narratively. Hopefully that’s the first and last song YG himself is helping with the producing and arranging 😬
I still feel such intense internal conflict and subsequent self-loathing for enjoying this song. 😂 I threw a party a week ago wherein I spent the last few hours subjecting the half-dozen or so friends who stayed past midnight to Kpop songs and it was funny hearing the lukewarm reception this still got from people who were totally naive to the "Teddy Formula."
i think the type of “haters” you’re adressing also matters, whether they exist now or not. ITZY’s music would resonate with preteens and teens who get bullied or have self esteem issues cause they’re quirky or colorful, etc. but who does meovv’s message resonate with, not them cause they don’t have haters, and not the average teen watching their music cause their average listener doesn’t have money or brands to flex. compare that to groups like bp or bts, even if we fans don’t relate to their situation, atleast we know they’re speaking from experience.
As always, I dropped what I was doing to check this out! ❤ Here are my thoughts… You’re absolutely right that songs with meaning are favored more than silly songs about nothing or intimidation; this of course has exceptions like if you look at Katy Perry’s earlier works. (Like Dark Horse, Peacock, and last Friday Night.) There’s a reason why Taylor Swift is so beloved and praised for her lyricism, especially with bodies of work like Folklore and Evermore. For me personally, I adore to analyze the meanings of songs through their lyrics and music; but, I also enjoy listening to songs about nothing. I truly love Nmixx’s Tank, even if the lyrics are so silly, because who doesn’t want to be “freaky fishy” sometimes? Overall, it truly just depends on the listener to decide what they lean towards; I like both meaningful and meaningless music, and I think there both valid forms of art and expression. There is space for both categories to peacefully coexist. Thank you for sharing your amazing thoughts! ❤
4:51 tbh I agree with this person here. This is more of R.tee’s formula than Teddy’s. The LYRICS are the only thing that’s giving Teddy. Teddy’s tracks have more ear candy than this debut had and as someone who LOVES to listen to the instrumentals of songs in general. This song was too EMPTY to be Teddy. Whistle and Gashina were the only empty songs of teddy and they had more structure. This one has r.tee written all over it.
Meovv’s debut fell flat for me, especially when I had been so hyped from the teasers, and I really agree that it was execution instead of concept. The music video is so focused on being cool it forgets how to actually be interesting; when I watched a performance I was blown away by how much more I liked it.
I don't think MEOW gets coded as a fake haters song if not for Touch creating such a narrative. MEOW is a bragging song. The cattiest it gets is along the lines of "there is no we" which is not something you say to haters, it's what you say to people that are beneath you. MEOW is a bragging song about being better than you at attracting a (paying) crowd.
even as a bragging song it doesn't work all that well bc... they Just debuted. sure, ive known some (if not all) members come from well-off families, but even then we don't know if they got their first paycheck yet or paid off their trainee debts. it's just too early to be bragging about making money being above everyone else in the game when you're barely in
I completely agree that Meow wasn't Teddy enough (he didn't compose this one so I'll reserve judgment until their next song, with Meow being a simple concert opener). Give me a modernized 2NE1 sound Teddy. Something sweeping and grand like "Come Back Home" is needed in kpop right now, imo.
I actually love the "imaginary haters" concept. People who aren't celebrities might not have "haters" in the typical sense, but I'm sure we all know what it's like to feel judged for who you are or the things you believe in, especially if you don't feel like you fit in. So I view these "imaginary haters" type of songs as a way for artists to say that they're going to be themselves, no matter what people think. And to me, that's really empowering and listening to songs with that concept is also empowering, which is why I love songs with that concept. Also, songs with that kind of concept tend to have a more upbeat, epic, and powerful sound to them, which I also appreciate. I'm someone from the West (specifically from the US), but I love the concept. I don't see why lyrics about being yourself no matter what others say are seen as boring - no one complains about the endless amount of songs that are about romance, crushes, or romantic relationships and songs about that topic are WAY more overdone than songs speaking to "imaginary haters" or songs about self-confidence. And who's to say that songs speaking to haters or songs about self-love and individuality can't also be relatable and meaningful? Again, songs like that are meaningful and relatable to me. Maybe songs with this kind of concept need to be less about "being the best" and instead, the lyrics should focus more on being yourself despite other people's judgments, but that's probably the only issue that I have with the concept. Otherwise, I love it. I also don't mind the YG/Teddy formula, they just need to do a better job with the production of the instrumental. The beat drops in the choruses aren't always done in the best way, like the beat drops don't hit as hard as they could and sound kind of empty. But if they would fix that, then maybe more people would enjoy songs with that formula a bit more. Anyways, thank you for making this video and I hope you'll have a great day😊
The song itself and the girls' vocals are good, but god, the whole thing is so uninspired that it dampens the excitement for meov. It's gonna be the same thing every 2 years, and while I might listen to it once, it's not something that makes me look forward to the groups future releases. This extends to Yg and the black label as a whole .
I agree with you that popularity isn't really correlated at all with lyricism (other than for maybe groups like nct or gidle) However, the sonic qualities of a song is the most important aspect. If a song doesn't hit what the market demands then it won't do well. Newjeans is a great example because around their debut, there was a gap in the market for a chill, r&b sound that maintains a catchy kpop style chorus to easily be transmitted across tiktok Concept execution may play a role in a song's reception, however, I don't think it matters much. If Newjeans debuted with Hype Boy but the concept was more "back off haters" (which would, in this hypothetical scenario, be reflected in its lyricism and costuming in their music video), I don't think the reception would be any different. No one would call Newjeans' concept a "tired concept". I know a lot of people say that Hype Boy's reception was due to the nostalgia evoked by the y2k concept but I still think this was just an additional factor amounting to their positive reception - it was the production and vocals of Hype Boy alone which drove Newjeans' popularity
Im watching this even tho my problem with the song is with the song itself, i didn't even read the lyrics because i stopped caring about lyrics and meaning a long time ago, since it's always the same topic but with different words
To me, it's just such a tired and unimaginative concept that I've seen YG artists do 100 times already. I just don't get why they decided to go that route... imo it's an overused concept that both Koreans and international fans don't care for anymore. It did feel like they were targeting the West because well, flexing is very prominent in the American music industry, but if that's the case I feel like it shows just how much disconnect there is between these companies and the global market. I feel like International K-pop fans nowadays tend to find this sort of concept cringe in K-pop because K-pop artists seem to have a very artificial understanding of hip-hop/rap culture and use it as an aesthetic to look "cool" "badass" and "unbothered". It's one thing to see artists who have had a huge career already and who actually have raging haters do this, but when it's young people not even out of high school who just debuted and haven't made a name for themselves yet... kind of cringe.
I agree that’s it’s the execution of the imaginary haters that really matters. For me, I think one of the biggest things is how explicit the imaginary haters are, if that makes sense. For example Dalla Dalla by Itzy and Ddu Du Ddu Du by Blackpink could be classified as imaginary haters songs but more so in the sense that their message is “I’m confident in myself so you shouldn’t mess with me” rather than flexing on explicit haters. I think Katseye’s Debut is an example of this. While it’s not the type of song I would probably go for in general, the concept of specifically flexing on haters rather more of a general self-love song is what threw me off. I know there was hate because of Dream Academy but it just felt out of place as a debut/predebut track. I think maybe Debut would have worked better if it was more “don’t underestimate us even though it’s our debut” rather than “this ain’t a debut”
I personally don't mind a clap back concept as long as it's realistic/believable. "Haters" is not (and should not) be a one-size fits all concept. For example, if Nmixx were to make a song about haters who said they couldn't sing/were not talented, it would be hard to believe as they're literally KNOWN for their talent. If Yuna of Itzy made a song about how people don't appreciate her beauty then that would be unbelievable because she's Yuna and is again KNOWN for her beauty and stage presence. The problem with this song for me is that it's just not believable. The formula doesn't work for them at debut because they just started and haven't even been truly criticised for their work. I think that "defense against haters" songs work for groups like Le sserafim, Ive, Newjeans etc., because they have gone through very public hate trains and can believably turn their experiences into their art. As you said, I think this song is mostly a result of trying to resonate with western audiences as empowerment songs like these are usually well received. And even though I don't think the song fits the group that well (at this point) I can still enjoy it for what it is. It's a bop for me
hmm although the lyrics & concept is probably a problem when it comes to the heavy dislike of meovv’s debut, i honestly think it’s bc yg/theblacklabel have shown ZERO growth with their artists. they’d rather their artists do the same exact thing rather than trying different concepts, sounds, styling, etc. and that’s where the frustration comes from.
The problem is not the concept itself, but it's execution, cause it must be done smart, or it will be off-putting and annoying. You can pull off basically everything, if you do it well and not too much. "Dalla Dalla" is an example of good execution - they don't focus on haters and being the best, but on going for your dream, not minding the rest. They talk about themselves and their perspective, about how they don't want to be defined by anybody and how they do not fit (and don't have to fit) those standarts and stereotypes - "pretty, but not attractive at all, and i am special and love myself, cause there is something so different about me". There are smart examples of haters' concept - like QWER's '가짜 아이돌' or Yena's "Smiley", and a lot of bad once, like "Meow" or "Debut", so generally every bad or overused concept can be executed very well and every good and main-stream concept can be ruined as easily.
If the group, like with knowing all the members and stuff, were known and hyped up pre-debut, I get it. If they had hype before debut, they are sure to have some haters at that time as well. But if it was an out of nowhere debut, say newjeans for example, it makes 0 sense. Like girl nobody knows you why you already defending yourself
Comparing DALLA DALLA as a debut song is perfect for MEOW as well ss BATTER UP The common trajectory of the song is to build hype or introductory to the group song. Its common that the firdt release nowadays actually sound like ANTHEM LIKE or CHANT So far, MEOVV's debut song LYRICISM doesnt really match the image for the group. If you listen the song without the MUSIC VIDEO.... IT sounds like a solo song. It sounds good as an anthem song, lyrically who is this song for? If you listen closely its just being them alone. A message uncommon to most artists but using this song message felt like they are a 5 year idol but they just recently debuted. It would be a good song as a BSIDE To simply put, BABYMONSTER'S MONSTER a 1 minute song from their mini album is just an anthem chant. Imagine if they use it as a comeback rather than SHEESH, they would get bscklash. This is the vibe I am getting from MEOVV Again listen closely without the MV, It sounds like a soloist song.
I think MEOW is like Fearless in that the expectations and baggage are too great for one song to bear. I like both songs, they're fun and breazy, but they're not era-defining songs despite being very-hyped debuts so they felt like a letdown for many people. Also maybe MEOW isn't Teddy enough for YG fans because I like MEOW's production a lot better than the production on other YG songs including the hits.
this might be a little rant to I might go off on but I really need kpop to stop trying to pander to the west. when I got into kpop around 2014 I absolutely loved the absurdity, the audacity, and wackiness of it. Fortunately or unfortunately enough idols always played a character giving a more outward appearance that everything is fake. Kpop is genuinely a “fake” space. Western (or let’s call it what it is American) music isn’t necessarily “fake”. Taylor Swift is now the biggest pop star from singing about real past relationships. Chappell Roan is giving us close to authentic music about her own life with her biggest song revolving around a queer relationship, and we’re definitely not gonna see that blow up in Korea. Sabrina Carpenter as well! Yes, at points Western celebrities are playing characters but they’re pushed by the public to be authentic. Kpop is WAY too manufactured to fit into the western market especially right now. Plus if I wanted to listen to western music I would. Like why would I listen to a kpop group trying to sound western when I can just go to the pop songs in the west? Tbh I wouldn’t want to listen to a western group trying to sound kpop as well. They’re two different genres of music. Yes groups can break out of the box and be more “westernized” but now the genre as a whole wants to do that to the point where kpop lost the reason as to why it used to be fun. I’m actually getting to the point where I’m listening to western pop more than kpop for this exact reason. I rather cry to “Good Luck Babe” rather than listen to a teenage girl say “me and my girls we gonna shake some” while flaunting Chanel. No hate to these young girls at all, but I just can’t anymore.
Its not that I want something specifically from a song or kpop in general, it just has to sound good. The thing is you can be a fun song, with fun production and have lyrics that say something more. If I like a song I will play it a lot but also then have a new favourite go to current song the next day or week. The lyrics and meaning is what keep me coming back to a specific song. Unfortunatly meovvs debut is a song if I have played it for a while I probably after its newness wears off I wont be coming back to or think about a lot
baby monster debut (batter up) and sheesh is more worse than meow for me 😭 i dont get why sheesh is hype sm... I feel like meow is just the introduction song for them
3:17 I love this question: "if a 'back off haters" concept can be presented in a unique way, is there still a place for it in the kpop industry?" Here's my long tangent answer, I say yes. I think most people who listen to kpop (especially international listeners) are open to a unique concept... they just might not like it at first. Take Nmixx during debut as an example, a unique concept or new take might not be as understood/liked at first, but it will find it's own dedicated fanbase (coming from a large company does help too). Similarly, I also hear the word "refreshing" thrown around all the time, but especially when NewJeans debuted, because their sound was nothing like what was popular in kpop at the time. The difference between the two being the execution i think, Nmixx's change up was just too much at first as Mixxpop wasnt quite understood yet but NewJeans had their concept and sound locked in (i also think the sound NewJeans has was also popular in other regions at the time, and wasnt mostly new like Nmixx). I think most people are afraid of change, but not as much in music because I think more people are open to listening to something unique as it is an art/form of expression at its core. There's always been songs/soloists/groups known to be experimental (Red Velvet) or that may diverge from a normal and do something new (Twice). And theres always been people who want to think they are better than others for their unique taste in music and brag about listening to anything (which, lets be honest, might be many international listeners of kpop - I know i was like that at first haha). I think if a group can pull off a new way to portray the "back off haters" concept and sound, especially if they do actually have haters, i think it could definitely have its place in kpop. However, any group that tries a new take on this concept would have to fully commit. I would love to see Twice do a back off haters concept, but with their last two Korean title tracks being so vague, i think it would be poorly received. If Twice approached a haters back off concept like they did their angry breakup song Perfect World, it would be sooooo good but also so distinctly Twice, I would be obsessed.
That's crazy. No matter how loosely I allow myself to interpret the lyrics of 'Meow' this supposed "fake haters" concept doesn't become apparent to me. The meaning/concept I derive from it is that these girls don't need the admiration or approval of anyone (read misogynistic young men, which there is an overabundance of when that age) to earn a living and put on an impressive show doing what they love to do, namely dancing and singing and looking like fierce felines while doing it. Where in the lyrics are haters mentioned? Even if that were the concept then considering the tendency of "armchair experts of everything/keyboard connoisseurs" AKA half of the world's Netizens to hate on young female idols for eating strawberries, or posing for photographs at the request of photographers, while doing mandatory promotional activities for their group/agency (in other words for literally: Doing. Their. Damn. Job.) that a preemptive "don't bother trying that nonsense with me" message in the music (i.e. their principal method of communicating with the world) wouldn't be completely uncalled for.
the only thing with meovv i think they dont have a direction planned out for them they almost feel like a rushed unfinished after thought regardless of the song itself which feels like something another group wouldve had a better chance of pulling it off especially if it is minors then its like they cant give them age appropriate songs also yg needs a whole team not relying so heavily on one person otherwise songs are goong to overlap and feel half arsed.
fake haters can work, even this song could work, but it seems "undercooked", hollow. and i personally think it could've stayed as it is if it wasn't a title-track - a promoted b-side or a pre-release, sure. but just as a debut it is a "go girl give us nothing".
THE GIRLS AMAZING TALENTED AND BEAUTIFUL BUT THE PROBLEM WITH THEM IS THAT EXCEPT ANNE EVERBODY HAS THE SAME THICK POPSTAR TYPE OF TONE VOICE (IF YOU GET WHAT I AM SAYING) I THINK GAWON AND NARIN HAVE PERFECT VOICES THERE THICK VOICES SUIT THEM BUT ELLE AND SOOIN SHOULD CHAGE THE TONE OF THERE VOICES A BIT SO THE SONG CAN SHOW THEIR INDIVIUALITY
I think the issue is that K-pop is trying to lean more towards the western audience yet at the wrong time, they‘re trying to copy the popularity of 2000s girl groups which just isn’t the most popular thing anymore, it‘s the flexing of money looks or popularity which 2000s girls did debut with! That’s just something that doesn‘t work with Kpop, the whole industry is based on women being „feminine and more cutesy“ and although many girl groups have broken out of that popular standard that started developing in 2nd gen, it was done in a more charming matter! For example Itzy and (G)-idle are the perfect example of this: Charming debut which brings out personality yet also can be somewhat interpreted as „ego“ even groups like Blackpink did develop into talking about haters and etc. but that wasn‘t what they debuted with! I think if a lot of 5th gen groups would take the route of IVE‘s either way it would be even more popular. The western music industry has changed into wanting deeper meanings since the artists are now also proper public figures, which just doesn‘t work for the K-pop industry because expect for some globally popular artist most are just Idols: No real knowledge about them since they‘re not allowed to speak up about anything. Fans can acknowledge a certain „line“ being crossed to when a idol is changed into a public figure! Meovv‘s debut was banking on the fact that members like Ella would be considered a „public figure“ since she‘s more westernized, which didn‘t work ,
I stand by my opinion, the song is a C but I like it a lot. I played it a lot. Is it boring? Kinda but I don't care. Y'all care too much about people making a bang in their debut which isn't what happens to all artists. There's so much room for growth and I pray they do a better song in their comeback.
in my opinion the song was just underwhelming and forgettable, had the song itself been better then the shallow lyrics can be ignored. kpop has always had cringey lyrics but if the song is good then who cares? but this song has nothing else going on, and not only are they talking about imaginary haters but it's also about how rich they are which feels really weird? like this is their first song, they haven't made ANY money yet. either the lyrics are completely meaningless or they're talking about how they were all just born into rich families (which i belive they were) which doesn't make the listener feel empowered.
I don't mind the fake haters concept. It's general enough that it can apply to anything but specific enough that it still conjures a specific feeling in the listener. I agree it's more about style. They are good and I like Meovv but the YG signature wears out fast for me after 2-5 listens I tend to get a little bored and it all starts sounding the same to me....I just want those great moments of the song to continue and not have that empty chorus or outro
I don’t really like Meow because the lyrics doesn’t really make sense and music video too,but now that you said your opinion I understand why people like meowv’s song and songs like blackpink. The creative concept that is in meowv’s mv is unique and very nice and the beats made the song catchy tbh,but the lyrics put a lot of people off a lot.
Personally I think the song is actually ok, pretty catchy but whatever typa vibes HOWEVER imaging if the took the black cat concept and really properly fleshed it out with the styling the mv etc etc,, I have no idea how old these girls are so dont take my suggestion seriously, but what if they did like cat suits or something very black cat-y almost to a theatrical level, then at least there would people who get obsessed with their concept (and haters but thats a stan twt problem) I feel like when they introduced the group the concept was so strong then when they went on shows with normal ass looking outfits people were v disappointed bc of how good the branding felt upon their group poster thingies
When it comes to songs like Meow it honestly just makes me think back on how people hated how BP also only made songs on the same thing. Which is valid criticism.but for Meovv since its only their debut they have time to explore and show us their different sides musically I like to call this style of song "bad bitch music" and yeah. I like to believe everyone needs a 'bad bitch' song that they get down to to get their confidence up. Money is that for me. Meow might be that for someone else.
Maovv is like not bad but not good. But they are just BP2.0 i wished it was somthing different. Its like why can we just have more BP if they where just gann make this. Im a multi stan i want every group to sound different so i can stand them and tell the difference in every group.
The problem with this concept isn’t that is bad per se, it’s that it’s becoming a dime a dozen. Actually so filled up that even if you present it in away that’s never been done before it will still feel just as stale. It’s being roped in to the material concept now because K-pop is cycling on producers and song writers that have hyper specified there writing style to fit into this concept for a hope of getting a writing credit on a song a company picked up. I like this concept and I believe this concept still has a place, I think right now that concept just has to be in the form of a Bside right now. Something else should be offered up with them. I think that’s why only a hand full of groups have been successful with them, I’m thinking specifically of BTS, Blackpink, and Everglow. Taking Blackpink as my example here, Their earlier title tracks offered glimpses of parties, crushes, making memories, and more but it wasn’t really until How you like that for the group that we got a direct f*ck the haters song as a title track/pre release. Now you could maybe count KTL as a F the haters song but I don’t think their is a strong argument for it, but ether way they still don’t spend a lot of title tracks or pre-releases exclusively to f*ck you songs, how you like that was followed up by Ice cream and Lovesick girls for that project both songs that are notably absent of the haters. On the next project Born Pink they have Pink venom which came after Ready for love and was followed up by Shut down. Once again no flexing on the haters unless you count Blackpink flexing over the kpop industry in shut down as a f you to the haters song again. I’m not gonna say that those are the only songs that go f you to the haters in BP’s discography because that wouldn’t be truthful but the rest are Bsides. I’m thinking of songs like Typa Girl, Pretty savage, Love to hate me and The girls. Also looking at there solo songs Money and maybe Solo and LaLisa are the only songs really dedicated to flexing on the haters, though you could equally make a case that solo and LaLisa aren’t. Unfortunately this concept just isn’t being served the same way by groups of today who just want to skip to the part where they actually have haters to flex on, not saying they don’t but they haven’t really put the time in compared to the groups of yesteryear that have and had and still have almost as strong of a hater base as they do fanbase
i really coming to KPOP not expecting them to give me a lyric heavy song. im happy with the sound, melody, the catchy MV if im looking into meaningful lyric ill look into other genre
The thing is that they didn't make an effort in writing those lyrics or the song... the song is catchy, I have caught myself singing it. But it's just too irrelevant... it's not fun enough to be completely meaningless.
I don't mind a fake haters concept most of the time, but musically I just couldn't get behind MEOW. I'm not a fan of the YG sound and find really grating most of the time.
The "fake haters" concept is hit or miss with me. I can vibe with it if the song itself is actually good or interesting, unfortunately Meow is neither of those things. The music, lyrics, and vocals (nothing against the girls, but none of these voices appeal to me or stand out in any way) all come together to make a whole lot of nothing. This feels like listening to a skeleton. There's no meat, flesh or details to appreciate.
Honestly the expectations a lot of western kpop fans put on kpop groups gives me xenopho- vibes a lot of the time. I get that might not be their intention but it is how it comes off. ‘OH you want to come over here? And want us to like you?! Well we have VERY high standards and expectations. You better do everything right and bow and beg for acceptance at the end of it and MAYBE we’ll consider accepting you. Maybe’
Meanwhile bowing, and often begging (if you've ever seen newer idols ask the audience to please like them and their music almost every time they appear on TV) is literally a requirement of k-pop idols when promoting themselves in Korea specifically?
Fighting over lyrics not being "meaningful enough" brings me back to the trenches of twitter and "some people" attacking Blackpink over their lack of deep lyrics, as if everything has to be 6 levels deep into the most profound human feeling ever experienced. Personally, I didn't like the song, but I didn't like black mamba from aespa either, and now I'm a complete fan. Perhaps YG just failed the whole delivery/concept, but at this point it seems like many bands are debuting with a formulaic tiktok song to get streams ASAP.
4:13 please, of course it's the style of the song 😭 these with the haters theme is just something that surfaced because the song wasn't good enough to make people not notice it. If it was a good song, no kpopie would give a flying f*ck for the lyrics. Take IVE for example, they're always priced for good music production - how many of the people who say this actually look up or understand the lyrics to their songs?? Certainly not me lmao and I still wholeheartedly believe IVE has the best overall discography in 4th gen. If Meovv released a banger but with the same lyrics, no one would have cared. People didn't like the song and from there on they started noticing its problems (with the hate "concept"), not the other way around
i dont really care and i dont get why ppl get so het up about varied concepts and whatnot if its good song just enjoy it if not ignore it and move on. for some of us who have experienced such hate and whatever from ithers it is actually nice to have a song we can relate too i especially wouldve loved itzys songs if i had been 12/15 years old when it was released especially wannabe. i think the new kpop audiences are not only getting younger but they are forgetting to merely enjoy what these groups do and it seems so toxic that every small minorly "wrong" thing to do with a kpop group is looked at under a microscope like it really must take the fun out of it for the idols themselves. imagine working so hard on a mv and then doing all the dance choreo for it just to have ppl shit on it? sure theres worse songs imho but for the kpop audiences to then cry about itzy being flops is due to others lack of faith in the group or every song being bashed and decrease in support for the group. compared to the likes of bts and blackpink who had an easier market as they were one of the fewer grouos at the time of their debuts it feels like other groups now have such a short time to gain publics respect for their efforts otherwise if its one "bad" song it mean they flopped?
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although i can see dalla dalla as the fake haters type, lyrics like “keep your chin up” “just keep on dreaming” make it so they are talking to teens who have to deal with bad peers and society’s pressure. It makes sense as itzy were teens at the time and it’s believable
on the other hand, meow gets more of a hiphop inspiration, where the fake haters actually seem like enemies and there’s a lot of money flex. I know some of the members were famous prior, but some of the girls just couldn’t sell it. I think at the end of the day, a concept may or may not be the most popular, but u can make it work - it’s literally the same as acting - you have to sell, you have to be believable
Yea itzy was more abt uplifting others and self confidence rather than confronting haters
With ITZY’s music it’s as though they were singing through the lens of the audience. We could relate because we all know what it’s like to feel judged and it was meant as self empowerment. Whereas with meovv and others it comes off like they’re basically saying you hate us because we’re in this group and you’re jealous. lol.
yeah it's "happy thoughts~happy thoughts"...
it goes like NBA players giving advice to people on wheel chairs about football..
Idk why but the title reminds me of soobin saying “Yeonjun among other trainees took my attention because he actually rapped about his feelings. Everyone else was rapping about their haters but they have no haters, they are trainees.”
this is the reason why I love BTS´s music, all 7 have produced their own songs and it feels so genuine, especially sons like spring day just reach your soul the way a "fake haters" concept groups like Ikon never do
@@mariasol1545 who brought Bts into this???
@@aemusic_xoxo I did
@@aemusic_xoxo TXT was not mentioned in the video but op brought them up. It's what we call "example" to illustrate an opinion, I know that public school did you so ferociously dirty, but come on, just use your brain more.
@@AnahíViturino I meant in THIS comment. Where do you see BTS anywhere in THIS COMMENT? Also, using the “I know your school failed you🥺” as your comeback is mad crazy. If we also talking about education, you forgot an “an” between “call” and “example”.
tbh i don't think dalla dalla fits the "fake haters" concept. dalla dalla's message reads to me as "everyone should be authentically themselves regardless of criticism or bullying," while the fake haters songs like meow read as "i have more money than you and i am more successful than you." the shallowness makes it significantly more unappealing to me, along with the unbelievable notion that they had a significant enough amount of haters pre-debut that they had to center their debut song around flexing on them and fighting them off. it feels disingenuous.
exactly i dont think songs have to always have exact concepts placed on them anyway and ppl in the comment section just seem to think it has to have a label on it all the time.
right like sit down chanel oberlin
Although Teddy did not produce this song he's still listed as author of lyrics.
Let that sink in.
@@MissAdalia1991 we just know he wrote that ‘now you speak French talkin bout we’ line….. 🤦♂️
@@dean.mcmxcvifr it’s such an teddy line tho… reminds of some of Lisa raps or something like that
@@dean.mcmxcvi Nah he totally wrote the ‘hit that bass drum’ lyric. he been using that since Big-bang’s MADE album and it’s been nearly 10 YEARS. Bro’s got dedication 💀💀💀
I think its a bit funny to flex money as a newly debuted group that didnt earn money yet and are still in trainee debt
are k-pop groups not aloud to have a concept 😭😭?.
Each member of this group was already rich/successful before their debut though, whether through their own hard work, the hard work of their parents, or both.
@@kaayleelynnn*allowed
@@auroraragazzoni4533 sorry english isn’t my first language
@@kaayleelynnn mine neither, it’s okay
The fake haters concept wasn't what was off-putting to me. I've fallen out of love with materialism and "flexing on my haters" as a sentiment in music. I dont think these girls are obsessed with flexing yens and dollars on their haters. Also, i never want to hear a 16 year old say she and her friends are going to shake something. In general, i like more pop focused tracks so meovv is just not for me.
@@jordantamah9408 Yeah definitely! I would say things like “flexing on haters” and materialism still exist within the unbelievable concept, it’s not going to be for everyone and that’s okay, but other lyrics are just universally inappropriate for younger idols to be singing about in the first place
I don't think they're flexing their money on haters, they're flexing how their performances are so good that the performances are worth paying lots of money for.
I don't have an issue with the shake line because there is a long established norm of shaking body parts, including butts, in dances in a non-sexual manner. Like, I did the Macarena in school and the butt shaking was a fun point of emphasis. Phineas and Ferb has a bee butt shaking song.
The "bring cash" sentiment however does raise an eyebrow for me. I don't think the writers fully understood the subtext of that part.
@@bopete3204 Kpop is a multi-trillion dollar industry, it's time to stop excusing writers for massive productions for failing to understand subtext that any single average Westerner could properly perceive and avoid for $0.00
i don’t really agree in terms of sound preference. as someone who’s been a fan of blackpink for 6 years and is now following babymonster and meovv very closely as they are essentially the successors to my 14 year old self’s idols, i feel a lot of nostalgia in the production and lyrical content of both babymonster and meovv’s music. i personally don’t really mind if a song has a lot of flexing in it. an issue i do have, however is the styling choices for babymonster and, as you mentioned, inappropriate lyrics. that “shake sumn” line really caught me off guard knowing that ella is just 15 years old. while “shake something” could also mean anything, not just their bodies, the style of the music, use of aave to abbreviate ‘something’ to ‘sumn’ and given the other lyrics in the song, it’s clear that is not what the lyricist meant. both of the new girl groups to come out of yg and theblacklabel consist of mostly minors and almost every member in both groups is under the age of 21 (the exception being babymonster’s ruka who is 22). now hypothetically if the maknaes in these groups were 18/19 and the oldest members were way older it wouldn’t be as big of a problem as seen with groups like mamamoo, blackpink, (g)i-dle and kiss of life, all girl groups whose members entirely consisted of legal adults (although technically not “grown women” as some stans like to claim) when they debuted and debuted with a more mature concept that fit their ages well. however these are literal children. they need more age appropriate concepts because honestly, it’s a bit weird. i enjoy the song but i hope for their following releases they ease up on the forced maturity at least until ella is 18
If 16 y/o girls can wear bikines at the beach, why can't they sing bput shaking things? Isn't there hypocrisy somewhere there? Either teen girls should dress more age appropriately (not clothes meant for adult women) or they can express their s##uality, seeing as they're already dress s##xy.
the difference betwen itzy and meovv is that itzy kind of encourages listeners to be proud of themselves and be confident, saying that they won't change etc. it kind of refrences the norms in society where being yourself is often criticized. in meovv's case however, the girls are talking about money, fame, brands etc. while they just debuted so it doesn't really make sense. i feel like older groups singing about how strong they are in terms of concept, money and charts makes sense because yeah it's true and they're highlighting it because they can. not everyone likes that, but it's facts after all. that's what i think personally.
Bragging about money and fame is an unrelatable theme and giving this type of songs to literal kids who've just made their debut makes it even more unbelievable
“now you speak french chou-ing ji mi” 😂
i don't have anything against the "fake haters" concept when a group is already consolidated, but like we don't even know who meovv is, how are they already talking about haters and being rich? if this was a 3rd comeback or something, maybe it would make sense, but as a debut? it's kinda cringe actually.
yh its the cringey aspect of the song itself than the conceptual lyrics. it feels like a mashup of previous songs for other groups thrown in one because theres no real flow or rhyme in it. it gives half arsed vibes as well like r song writers really that lazy that they cant do no more full songs or high notes? or auto tune it all in some cases.
Isnt the "fake haters" concept exclusively about debuts? katseye, itzy and meovv like he mentioned. When a group is already consolidated pretty usually it means they're haters arent "Fake" anymore
i mean when do kpop groups not have the occasional cringy lyric
MEOW just feels like a teenager's made up scenario that they manifest into a song. It's extremely annoying and doesn't make sense when they've only just debut.
it's just a song damn 🙄
@@Gay-Transformersyou’re right, we can’t EVERR take anything in the world seriously and have criticism for anything!
@@kunpunko not everything needs criticism, just enjoy the song, and if you don't then shut up and listen to something else idk
love the song, if u don’t like it, don’t leave negative comments. those r children who worked hard
@@Gay-Transformers smooth brain fr. You can just shut yourself in a box and only interact with stuff you already like. That would be counterproductive in never making you discover anything new. But also, you’re allowed not to like stuff and to criticize it. Idk if you’re like 12 or if you’ve just never done anything out of your comfort zone
My problem with imaginary haters these days is more that it usually comes with this “bad ass girl” image that is just incredibly cringe and unbelievable coming from groups that are predominantly minors. Like girl come on you can’t even drive, why are you lying on a Lambo talking about flexing on your haters? Yeah, no.
IMO Debut was just a bad song, and on that note Espresso is simply incredibly catchy, I honestly didn’t actually listen to any of the lyrics other than the hook for the first three months I was looping it.
I think the “imaginary haters” thing can actually work in a concept’s favor like when a group is trying to break boundaries in some way or veer into a direction that isn’t considered easily marketable to the general public. It’s part of why XG is so successful, they have openly stated that breaking boundaries is a part of their concept.
I also wanted to point out that one of XG’s members shaved their head in real time for a music video which is WILD like even in the West that act is associated with negative stereotypes concerning women in the music industry (Britney Spears anyone?.) However, it has negative ties in the East as well due to an incident involving a Japanese idol that was formerly a member of the group AKB48 who was forced to shave her head and apologize on national tv for having a boyfriend.
They’re trying to break pre-conceived ideas about idols as a whole which means that, whether intentionally or not, their audience is automatically setting them apart from everything that Gen Z hates about the music industry.
@@alexandragabitto2573 I’ve just recently been getting into XG’s discography, and I agree! Cocona shaving her head is such an insane commitment to the concept 😭 I know she was thinking about doing it anyways, but it still commands such a sense of respect for their artistic identity
@@choujimi Honestly? The fact that the general public label what XG are doing as “art” at all (the comments section of their MVs should be STUDIED) is a testament to how they’ve successfully managed to change people’s ideas about pop music.
On the one hand it’s frustrating because no one says this about TWICE or other K-POP girl groups, but on the other they definitely deserve applause for being the only girl group atm who are committing so clearly and openly to their concept.
XG was really shouting “long live Asian female supremacy” with their entire chest on that track lol 😂
Idk how much they are breaking boundaries when they fit into idol standards and are famously cherry picking aspects of kpop while saying with their full chest they are not kpop rather global. But then again its similar to gidle, idk how truly feminist they are when they continuously fit into unrealistic standards set for women.
@@havensohn3821 True! Radical feminist ideology has never had a place in the public eye and the KPOP industry even less. It’s why XG stands out for just saying, clearly and specifically, that they think girls kickass instead of the super vague “I’m proud of being myself!!” default that groups often go for. Said statement never explicitly addresses the implication that people have a really hard time “being themselves” in society because they’re terrified of the hate that would bring upon them due to oppressive social norms.
However, I think the positive response that XG has managed to receive is a sign that things are slowly but surely changing. The world deserves better, but I also understand that you always have to take baby steps with conservatives…and KPOP is pretty dang conservative despite what people may think.
@@choujimiCOCONA actually is a spiritual human to begin with like sometimes I can’t understand how can a 18 yo girl have such an immense power and dedication she literally stated that line in her verse in WOKE UP “ little girl with a big mouth “ hold such a big weight so she decided that she can go on a whole new journey about conveying that women don’t have to live up to the high beauty standards and you can love yourself no matter what , and I believe her role model “ LAURYEN HILL” plays a lot in her personality and the way she thinks that woman is also a spiritual human too
I think the biggest problem with this concept is when you hear it from a bunch of kids it just sounds dumb as hell. Speaking about meow's debut specifically, these girls just debuted, ppl barely know them yet, we're all just curious what they'll be like and it's just a bunch of teens complaining. I know that's not what the song is about, however it did give me that kind of vibe. Obv it's teddy the dude might not have produced the song but he did approve it. Hope for the girls' sake they get better music.
As for the concept itself, it gives me second hand embarrassment. Like anything would be better than that imo.
Honestly, I do not think it's the fake haters concept that makes this song disappointing. It's the lack of anything. The song is just a couple minutes of nothing. The girls ate with what they had, but they're not enough to fully save the lack of substance in the song. The lyrics aren't even technically bad (honestly, I don't think "bad" lyrics exist), there's just so little to them. Also, I see Dalla Dalla as more of a confidence/empowerment song as opposed to a fake haters concept.
yeah like dalla dalla's lyrics are just a tad corny, but 3 members were still teens (ryujin and chaeryeong were 17-18 and yuna was 16) while yeji and lia were just barely adults, so it made sense for them to sing about following their own path and be themselves. meovv was just whatever, and the fact they're almost all teens singing about brand deals and money while trying to look fierce didn't help lmao. good for them for working with what they had tho.
and the flexing of wealth and money will always put me off. especially for newly debut group and it i feel it will only set them up in the long run. it just presents them as shallow and it is something i dont want for these girls and its something their fans cant seem to understand when i say that
Kpop idols nowadays don't debut for the arts or the charts but for international fashion brands and tiktok. That line about speaking french in the song was put there so that it would go viral on social media.
I'm lowkey glad bailey sok didn't debut in meovv cause it would be a waste of her and her talent.
i said it before that i feel meovv not being formed from a survival show meaning there ARE no haters is weird, especially at debut (but now that they do have haters (a lot of them i fear) the song actually kinda fits now), but in retrospect to dalla dalla, i feel the reason meow was panned a lot more than dalla dalla (besides the changing times) is that dalla dalla is like... actually good. alongside the lyrics being not just "haters can cope seethe and mald" but also "i love myself" and "hey keep your chin up, we got your back", like meow is just "shut up. im rich, hot, and iconic, yall hate us cuz you aint us" and... girls, you are NOT LALISA??? YOU ARE NOT SOLAR??? LIKE IS THERE MORE TO IT???? you see, lisa's money and solar's colours ("and say it, im sick im hot, louder louder, im sick im hot im gorgeous so back 🖕") work because they've proven themselves already, they're essentially flexing their success. meovv doesn't have a) billions of wons and yens and dollars to drop on us nor b) a motivational underlying theme that justifies the fake haters nor c) a fun and good song that makes speaking to the fake haters fun.
fake haters and other vibrant, quirky, or even nostalgic aspects of kpop MOST DEFINITELY have a place today, but it's all comes to execution. its why itzy (despite the overhate) is still enjoyed, its why stayc is so beloved, its why zerobaseone can drop a song like feel the pop and everyone goes "OH YEAHHH!!!", its literally how the pirate concept of stray kids and ateez function, it's not JUST about meaning alone, but the presentation and execution of said concept. we need the kpopy kpop songs that kpop more than some pop songs could ever pop!
i can totally get down with fake hater concept, but the song has to be like, something you'd wanna listen to more than once. does not need to pander to everyone, can be experimental, but NEEDS TO BE ENJOYABLE MUSIC, if not for me, for someone out there! meovv, unfortunately, is not that to most people, not yet. the execution is mid, which then piles on top of the western market expectations for a perfect storm of "GIRLS PLEASE WHAT HATERS YOU JUST GOT HERE", a storm even i was part of because girls, please, what haters, you just got here (which again, they now have plenty of haters to flip off, so maybe that was the goal?).
i hope meovv succeeds and improves and we get a babymonster-type comeback (forever is a slight bop i fear). if they do stick to the fake hater concept, they gotta like, execute it better, and frankly if the song is good, people will overlook the cheesiness of a 5th gen group that debuted barely a month ago telling their haters to get bent
again, meovv has real haters now so maybe at this point it isnt fake hater concept now... its le sserafim's crazy (but again, meow is not as good!)
edit: i'd also like to add that meow isnt even THAT BAD. like it's not like, downright horrendous, but it's no where near as good as it couldve been, hence my opinion is a solid 5/10. i might relisten just to see if my opinion changes (like it takes a few listens sometimes for me to fall in love with a new group)
edit 2: 4:30 WAIT TEDDY DIDNT PRODUCE THIS SONG???
edit 3: you asked if i engage with kpop differently than other genres and... yeah lolll. idk one thing that always has my kpop stan status in a twist is when someone says kpop songs are shallow and meaningless, that's its fake and hollow and manufactured and mass-produced and lazy.
so i feel it has subconsciously caused me to analyze kpop songs for meaning, artistic intention, idol involvement in the production process, lore, and more solely because my friends who listen to chappell roan and NWA mitski and Tyler The Creator and the like, some (not most but some) of them look down on kpop claiming it has "lackluster lyrics and meaning" (which could be tied to racism and stigma of non-English media in Western society, the modern expectation of all media to be deep and meaningful for a increasingly complex world that leaves little room for media that does not seek to instill some lesson or moral or politic in you, and the general standoffish opinion a lot of music fans have towards the kpop industry because it is so much more structured and yes, manufactured than say, hiphop or pop music. Pair in the fact that most boy bands/girl groups/boy groups/girl bands in any society are FORMED by labels rather than individuals coming together and kpop's prioritisation of music groups over soloists/individual artists, the squeaky clean image most artists and idols in the kpop industry maintain to adhere to Korean societal norms for public figures, and the long-running superiority complex hiphop and rock artists AND fans have had against essentially all other genres of music, and you can see how that image of "plastic, cheap, Asian music" has become a forefront of the minds of people who are too close-minded to realise their viewpoint is horribly Anglocentric.
Hence me (and many other kpop fans) being raised in such a society working to glean as much meaning as possible from a song like Red Flavour or I AM or Ate That or PUPPET SHOW solely so we can justify to ourselves that the music we enjoy is not the "plastic, manufactured, shallow trash" that those around us say it is, and therefore justify being in this genre/industry/community and engaging in it. So when a song like meow or see that or supernova comes along that doesn't necessarily insert meaning at the most obvious locations (see chou's breakdown of what (phonetic) "byur byur byur" means, and how it's a wordplay you need to know more than just English to understand, or chou's "reviewing bad english in kpop" videos) it risks getting hate for not fitting the Western standard of music lyricism that Western audiences have been trying to hold kpop to. Not saying a poorly written kpop song gets a free pass, no no no, but it's recognising that lyricical styling and meaning is not a universal standard, and will change based on the genre, the artist, the producers, the language, the region, and SO MUCH MORE.
Im going to try to do it, and I'd hope more people would as well. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
edit 4, 2 weeks later: OKAY THE WAY THIS SONG SNUCK UP AND GREW ON ME WAS UNEXPECTED AND SO FAST?????? i legitimately listened to meow a second time just to see if my opinion remained the same, and the WAY EVERYTHING MADE SENSE FOR ME LIKE ????????? OKAY MEOVV I GUESS YOU ATE????? like i fear i've played it 8 times in the past 2 weeks since i commented this, so uhhhh, guess meow is a slay for me. my comment still definitely holds up, but i did not expect to start liking this song 😭
like i still think the song isnt the best, but i can no longer deny, it's catchy.
For me, you hit the nail on the head with the Dalla Dalla vs Meow comment. Dalla Dalla is just a lot more relatable and thus a lot more believable than Meow because it’s about self confidence and believing in yourself and not just being richer and more famous than your supposed “haters“
Crazy.
i like your comment, i think more people should see it
i mean i wouldn’t say the the girls got zero hate before debuting after the lineup was announced they got criticized for everything bc people were expecting bailey seok to debut with them but she didn’t (especially marin got a lot of hate for her visuals)
Love that your TED talk especially love the part about kpop being criticised as shallow, thank you!
Man, for me, the only thing I can say is that the whole concept seems like those rich teenage girls in school who act all "people hate us because they wanna be like us but they can't, cuz we're sooooo hot and iconic" and no one can stand them because of that. I am not saying anything against their characters because I KNOW its just a concept, just that it gives me flashbacks to girls i went to school with
The comment about meow not being teddy ENOUGH is very valid imo. At least as it regards to the production. Teddy’s instrumentals are beautiful imo. I listen to the instrumentals of BP songs more than the actual songs these days. When you listen to BM or meovv’s instrumentals they’re quite bare bones and uninteresting. As much as I think teddy really struggles in the lyrics department I believe part of why he’s been able to keep doing the teddy formula is because instrumental wise… his work is always great
Teddy didn't work on Meovv's debut song as a music producer. He was only the writer for some lyrics.
@@LizzieShiro yes that’s what I’m saying lol. Part of it being lackluster is because he wasn’t the producer on it
The line with "I'm gonna shake some", makes me cringe so harder than the fake hater. Like why are children singing that line.
I don't mind the fake hater if it makes sense within the song (and the song sounds good). In Babymonster's forever, the make money and I'm better than you mentally is so out of left field, it gave me whiplash.
If these parts were in korean I wouldn't have minded. So many Kpop song I would probably not like if I could understand what they were singing.
@@desirebotha Yeah “shake sumn” is inexcusable in any capacity for a group with young idols to be singing about. It doesn’t matter the context / language the lyrics are in
Omg reallllllllll about bm forever. Like the song kinda doesn’t make sense narratively. Hopefully that’s the first and last song YG himself is helping with the producing and arranging 😬
I still feel such intense internal conflict and subsequent self-loathing for enjoying this song. 😂 I threw a party a week ago wherein I spent the last few hours subjecting the half-dozen or so friends who stayed past midnight to Kpop songs and it was funny hearing the lukewarm reception this still got from people who were totally naive to the "Teddy Formula."
I genuinely like it too 😭 maybe it’s because we’re fellow O.O defenders - it’s the burden of seeing the vision before most do
This is the true Kpop fan experience: when you know it’s ridiculous but that just feeds the obsession 😂
songs like this have always existed!! and they make you feel like a bad b what's not to love
Their debut disappointed me so hard it makes me mad
i think the type of “haters” you’re adressing also matters, whether they exist now or not. ITZY’s music would resonate with preteens and teens who get bullied or have self esteem issues cause they’re quirky or colorful, etc. but who does meovv’s message resonate with, not them cause they don’t have haters, and not the average teen watching their music cause their average listener doesn’t have money or brands to flex. compare that to groups like bp or bts, even if we fans don’t relate to their situation, atleast we know they’re speaking from experience.
As always, I dropped what I was doing to check this out! ❤
Here are my thoughts…
You’re absolutely right that songs with meaning are favored more than silly songs about nothing or intimidation; this of course has exceptions like if you look at Katy Perry’s earlier works. (Like Dark Horse, Peacock, and last Friday Night.)
There’s a reason why Taylor Swift is so beloved and praised for her lyricism, especially with bodies of work like Folklore and Evermore.
For me personally, I adore to analyze the meanings of songs through their lyrics and music; but, I also enjoy listening to songs about nothing. I truly love Nmixx’s Tank, even if the lyrics are so silly, because who doesn’t want to be “freaky fishy” sometimes?
Overall, it truly just depends on the listener to decide what they lean towards; I like both meaningful and meaningless music, and I think there both valid forms of art and expression. There is space for both categories to peacefully coexist.
Thank you for sharing your amazing thoughts! ❤
4:51 tbh I agree with this person here. This is more of R.tee’s formula than Teddy’s. The LYRICS are the only thing that’s giving Teddy. Teddy’s tracks have more ear candy than this debut had and as someone who LOVES to listen to the instrumentals of songs in general. This song was too EMPTY to be Teddy. Whistle and Gashina were the only empty songs of teddy and they had more structure. This one has r.tee written all over it.
I can enjoy the song because i don't take it literally. Ik how to enjoy it without oberthinking the meaning. The vocals keep me through the whole song
Meovv’s debut fell flat for me, especially when I had been so hyped from the teasers, and I really agree that it was execution instead of concept. The music video is so focused on being cool it forgets how to actually be interesting; when I watched a performance I was blown away by how much more I liked it.
I don't think MEOW gets coded as a fake haters song if not for Touch creating such a narrative. MEOW is a bragging song. The cattiest it gets is along the lines of "there is no we" which is not something you say to haters, it's what you say to people that are beneath you.
MEOW is a bragging song about being better than you at attracting a (paying) crowd.
if it is a braggy song im not sure what they are bragging about lmao cause so far ppl havent exactly been open to furry music
even as a bragging song it doesn't work all that well bc... they Just debuted. sure, ive known some (if not all) members come from well-off families, but even then we don't know if they got their first paycheck yet or paid off their trainee debts. it's just too early to be bragging about making money being above everyone else in the game when you're barely in
I completely agree that Meow wasn't Teddy enough (he didn't compose this one so I'll reserve judgment until their next song, with Meow being a simple concert opener). Give me a modernized 2NE1 sound Teddy. Something sweeping and grand like "Come Back Home" is needed in kpop right now, imo.
I actually love the "imaginary haters" concept. People who aren't celebrities might not have "haters" in the typical sense, but I'm sure we all know what it's like to feel judged for who you are or the things you believe in, especially if you don't feel like you fit in. So I view these "imaginary haters" type of songs as a way for artists to say that they're going to be themselves, no matter what people think. And to me, that's really empowering and listening to songs with that concept is also empowering, which is why I love songs with that concept.
Also, songs with that kind of concept tend to have a more upbeat, epic, and powerful sound to them, which I also appreciate. I'm someone from the West (specifically from the US), but I love the concept. I don't see why lyrics about being yourself no matter what others say are seen as boring - no one complains about the endless amount of songs that are about romance, crushes, or romantic relationships and songs about that topic are WAY more overdone than songs speaking to "imaginary haters" or songs about self-confidence. And who's to say that songs speaking to haters or songs about self-love and individuality can't also be relatable and meaningful? Again, songs like that are meaningful and relatable to me.
Maybe songs with this kind of concept need to be less about "being the best" and instead, the lyrics should focus more on being yourself despite other people's judgments, but that's probably the only issue that I have with the concept. Otherwise, I love it. I also don't mind the YG/Teddy formula, they just need to do a better job with the production of the instrumental. The beat drops in the choruses aren't always done in the best way, like the beat drops don't hit as hard as they could and sound kind of empty. But if they would fix that, then maybe more people would enjoy songs with that formula a bit more. Anyways, thank you for making this video and I hope you'll have a great day😊
The song itself and the girls' vocals are good, but god, the whole thing is so uninspired that it dampens the excitement for meov. It's gonna be the same thing every 2 years, and while I might listen to it once, it's not something that makes me look forward to the groups future releases. This extends to Yg and the black label as a whole .
I agree with you that popularity isn't really correlated at all with lyricism (other than for maybe groups like nct or gidle)
However, the sonic qualities of a song is the most important aspect. If a song doesn't hit what the market demands then it won't do well. Newjeans is a great example because around their debut, there was a gap in the market for a chill, r&b sound that maintains a catchy kpop style chorus to easily be transmitted across tiktok
Concept execution may play a role in a song's reception, however, I don't think it matters much. If Newjeans debuted with Hype Boy but the concept was more "back off haters" (which would, in this hypothetical scenario, be reflected in its lyricism and costuming in their music video), I don't think the reception would be any different. No one would call Newjeans' concept a "tired concept". I know a lot of people say that Hype Boy's reception was due to the nostalgia evoked by the y2k concept but I still think this was just an additional factor amounting to their positive reception - it was the production and vocals of Hype Boy alone which drove Newjeans' popularity
Im watching this even tho my problem with the song is with the song itself, i didn't even read the lyrics because i stopped caring about lyrics and meaning a long time ago, since it's always the same topic but with different words
To me, it's just such a tired and unimaginative concept that I've seen YG artists do 100 times already. I just don't get why they decided to go that route... imo it's an overused concept that both Koreans and international fans don't care for anymore. It did feel like they were targeting the West because well, flexing is very prominent in the American music industry, but if that's the case I feel like it shows just how much disconnect there is between these companies and the global market. I feel like International K-pop fans nowadays tend to find this sort of concept cringe in K-pop because K-pop artists seem to have a very artificial understanding of hip-hop/rap culture and use it as an aesthetic to look "cool" "badass" and "unbothered". It's one thing to see artists who have had a huge career already and who actually have raging haters do this, but when it's young people not even out of high school who just debuted and haven't made a name for themselves yet... kind of cringe.
I agree that’s it’s the execution of the imaginary haters that really matters. For me, I think one of the biggest things is how explicit the imaginary haters are, if that makes sense. For example Dalla Dalla by Itzy and Ddu Du Ddu Du by Blackpink could be classified as imaginary haters songs but more so in the sense that their message is “I’m confident in myself so you shouldn’t mess with me” rather than flexing on explicit haters. I think Katseye’s Debut is an example of this. While it’s not the type of song I would probably go for in general, the concept of specifically flexing on haters rather more of a general self-love song is what threw me off. I know there was hate because of Dream Academy but it just felt out of place as a debut/predebut track. I think maybe Debut would have worked better if it was more “don’t underestimate us even though it’s our debut” rather than “this ain’t a debut”
I personally don't mind a clap back concept as long as it's realistic/believable. "Haters" is not (and should not) be a one-size fits all concept. For example, if Nmixx were to make a song about haters who said they couldn't sing/were not talented, it would be hard to believe as they're literally KNOWN for their talent. If Yuna of Itzy made a song about how people don't appreciate her beauty then that would be unbelievable because she's Yuna and is again KNOWN for her beauty and stage presence.
The problem with this song for me is that it's just not believable. The formula doesn't work for them at debut because they just started and haven't even been truly criticised for their work.
I think that "defense against haters" songs work for groups like Le sserafim, Ive, Newjeans etc., because they have gone through very public hate trains and can believably turn their experiences into their art.
As you said, I think this song is mostly a result of trying to resonate with western audiences as empowerment songs like these are usually well received. And even though I don't think the song fits the group that well (at this point) I can still enjoy it for what it is. It's a bop for me
hmm although the lyrics & concept is probably a problem when it comes to the heavy dislike of meovv’s debut, i honestly think it’s bc yg/theblacklabel have shown ZERO growth with their artists. they’d rather their artists do the same exact thing rather than trying different concepts, sounds, styling, etc. and that’s where the frustration comes from.
The problem is not the concept itself, but it's execution, cause it must be done smart, or it will be off-putting and annoying. You can pull off basically everything, if you do it well and not too much.
"Dalla Dalla" is an example of good execution - they don't focus on haters and being the best, but on going for your dream, not minding the rest. They talk about themselves and their perspective, about how they don't want to be defined by anybody and how they do not fit (and don't have to fit) those standarts and stereotypes - "pretty, but not attractive at all, and i am special and love myself, cause there is something so different about me".
There are smart examples of haters' concept - like QWER's '가짜 아이돌' or Yena's "Smiley", and a lot of bad once, like "Meow" or "Debut", so generally every bad or overused concept can be executed very well and every good and main-stream concept can be ruined as easily.
If the group, like with knowing all the members and stuff, were known and hyped up pre-debut, I get it. If they had hype before debut, they are sure to have some haters at that time as well. But if it was an out of nowhere debut, say newjeans for example, it makes 0 sense. Like girl nobody knows you why you already defending yourself
BlackSwan is so safe cause... haters on the left and on the right.
Comparing DALLA DALLA as a debut song is perfect for MEOW as well ss BATTER UP
The common trajectory of the song is to build hype or introductory to the group song. Its common that the firdt release nowadays actually sound like ANTHEM LIKE or CHANT
So far, MEOVV's debut song LYRICISM doesnt really match the image for the group. If you listen the song without the MUSIC VIDEO.... IT sounds like a solo song.
It sounds good as an anthem song, lyrically who is this song for? If you listen closely its just being them alone. A message uncommon to most artists but using this song message felt like they are a 5 year idol but they just recently debuted. It would be a good song as a BSIDE
To simply put, BABYMONSTER'S MONSTER a 1 minute song from their mini album is just an anthem chant. Imagine if they use it as a comeback rather than SHEESH, they would get bscklash. This is the vibe I am getting from MEOVV
Again listen closely without the MV, It sounds like a soloist song.
I think MEOW is like Fearless in that the expectations and baggage are too great for one song to bear. I like both songs, they're fun and breazy, but they're not era-defining songs despite being very-hyped debuts so they felt like a letdown for many people.
Also maybe MEOW isn't Teddy enough for YG fans because I like MEOW's production a lot better than the production on other YG songs including the hits.
this might be a little rant to I might go off on but I really need kpop to stop trying to pander to the west. when I got into kpop around 2014 I absolutely loved the absurdity, the audacity, and wackiness of it. Fortunately or unfortunately enough idols always played a character giving a more outward appearance that everything is fake. Kpop is genuinely a “fake” space. Western (or let’s call it what it is American) music isn’t necessarily “fake”. Taylor Swift is now the biggest pop star from singing about real past relationships. Chappell Roan is giving us close to authentic music about her own life with her biggest song revolving around a queer relationship, and we’re definitely not gonna see that blow up in Korea. Sabrina Carpenter as well! Yes, at points Western celebrities are playing characters but they’re pushed by the public to be authentic.
Kpop is WAY too manufactured to fit into the western market especially right now. Plus if I wanted to listen to western music I would. Like why would I listen to a kpop group trying to sound western when I can just go to the pop songs in the west? Tbh I wouldn’t want to listen to a western group trying to sound kpop as well.
They’re two different genres of music. Yes groups can break out of the box and be more “westernized” but now the genre as a whole wants to do that to the point where kpop lost the reason as to why it used to be fun.
I’m actually getting to the point where I’m listening to western pop more than kpop for this exact reason. I rather cry to “Good Luck Babe” rather than listen to a teenage girl say “me and my girls we gonna shake some” while flaunting Chanel. No hate to these young girls at all, but I just can’t anymore.
Illit, baby monster went though the same thing.
Its not that I want something specifically from a song or kpop in general, it just has to sound good. The thing is you can be a fun song, with fun production and have lyrics that say something more. If I like a song I will play it a lot but also then have a new favourite go to current song the next day or week. The lyrics and meaning is what keep me coming back to a specific song. Unfortunatly meovvs debut is a song if I have played it for a while I probably after its newness wears off I wont be coming back to or think about a lot
baby monster debut (batter up) and sheesh is more worse than meow for me 😭 i dont get why sheesh is hype sm... I feel like meow is just the introduction song for them
i loved MEOW😝😝😝
3:17 I love this question: "if a 'back off haters" concept can be presented in a unique way, is there still a place for it in the kpop industry?"
Here's my long tangent answer, I say yes. I think most people who listen to kpop (especially international listeners) are open to a unique concept... they just might not like it at first. Take Nmixx during debut as an example, a unique concept or new take might not be as understood/liked at first, but it will find it's own dedicated fanbase (coming from a large company does help too). Similarly, I also hear the word "refreshing" thrown around all the time, but especially when NewJeans debuted, because their sound was nothing like what was popular in kpop at the time. The difference between the two being the execution i think, Nmixx's change up was just too much at first as Mixxpop wasnt quite understood yet but NewJeans had their concept and sound locked in (i also think the sound NewJeans has was also popular in other regions at the time, and wasnt mostly new like Nmixx).
I think most people are afraid of change, but not as much in music because I think more people are open to listening to something unique as it is an art/form of expression at its core. There's always been songs/soloists/groups known to be experimental (Red Velvet) or that may diverge from a normal and do something new (Twice). And theres always been people who want to think they are better than others for their unique taste in music and brag about listening to anything (which, lets be honest, might be many international listeners of kpop - I know i was like that at first haha). I think if a group can pull off a new way to portray the "back off haters" concept and sound, especially if they do actually have haters, i think it could definitely have its place in kpop.
However, any group that tries a new take on this concept would have to fully commit. I would love to see Twice do a back off haters concept, but with their last two Korean title tracks being so vague, i think it would be poorly received. If Twice approached a haters back off concept like they did their angry breakup song Perfect World, it would be sooooo good but also so distinctly Twice, I would be obsessed.
That's crazy. No matter how loosely I allow myself to interpret the lyrics of 'Meow' this supposed "fake haters" concept doesn't become apparent to me. The meaning/concept I derive from it is that these girls don't need the admiration or approval of anyone (read misogynistic young men, which there is an overabundance of when that age) to earn a living and put on an impressive show doing what they love to do, namely dancing and singing and looking like fierce felines while doing it. Where in the lyrics are haters mentioned? Even if that were the concept then considering the tendency of "armchair experts of everything/keyboard connoisseurs" AKA half of the world's Netizens to hate on young female idols for eating strawberries, or posing for photographs at the request of photographers, while doing mandatory promotional activities for their group/agency (in other words for literally: Doing. Their. Damn. Job.) that a preemptive "don't bother trying that nonsense with me" message in the music (i.e. their principal method of communicating with the world) wouldn't be completely uncalled for.
I just think it's cringy, and it somehow ends up bringing more haters than it usually would, but I mean, that's my opinion
the only thing with meovv i think they dont have a direction planned out for them they almost feel like a rushed unfinished after thought regardless of the song itself which feels like something another group wouldve had a better chance of pulling it off especially if it is minors then its like they cant give them age appropriate songs also yg needs a whole team not relying so heavily on one person otherwise songs are goong to overlap and feel half arsed.
fake haters can work, even this song could work, but it seems "undercooked", hollow. and i personally think it could've stayed as it is if it wasn't a title-track - a promoted b-side or a pre-release, sure. but just as a debut it is a "go girl give us nothing".
THE GIRLS AMAZING TALENTED AND BEAUTIFUL BUT THE PROBLEM WITH THEM IS THAT EXCEPT ANNE EVERBODY HAS THE SAME THICK POPSTAR TYPE OF TONE VOICE (IF YOU GET WHAT I AM SAYING) I THINK GAWON AND NARIN HAVE PERFECT VOICES THERE THICK VOICES SUIT THEM BUT ELLE AND SOOIN SHOULD CHAGE THE TONE OF THERE VOICES A BIT SO THE SONG CAN SHOW THEIR INDIVIUALITY
THESE HATERS ARE THE BUNNIES, LIKE EVERY KPOP GROUP COPY THEM NJ ACCORDING TO THEIR SAINT MOTHER MHJ. WHAT A INSUFFERABLE FANDOM.
I think the issue is that K-pop is trying to lean more towards the western audience yet at the wrong time, they‘re trying to copy the popularity of 2000s girl groups which just isn’t the most popular thing anymore, it‘s the flexing of money looks or popularity which 2000s girls did debut with! That’s just something that doesn‘t work with Kpop, the whole industry is based on women being „feminine and more cutesy“ and although many girl groups have broken out of that popular standard that started developing in 2nd gen, it was done in a more charming matter! For example Itzy and (G)-idle are the perfect example of this: Charming debut which brings out personality yet also can be somewhat interpreted as „ego“ even groups like Blackpink did develop into talking about haters and etc. but that wasn‘t what they debuted with! I think if a lot of 5th gen groups would take the route of IVE‘s either way it would be even more popular. The western music industry has changed into wanting deeper meanings since the artists are now also proper public figures, which just doesn‘t work for the K-pop industry because expect for some globally popular artist most are just Idols: No real knowledge about them since they‘re not allowed to speak up about anything. Fans can acknowledge a certain „line“ being crossed to when a idol is changed into a public figure! Meovv‘s debut was banking on the fact that members like Ella would be considered a „public figure“ since she‘s more westernized, which didn‘t work ,
That was a lot of text
I must be the only one who likes meovv right now. Its giving but in like what I expected from black label giving.
I stand by my opinion, the song is a C but I like it a lot. I played it a lot. Is it boring? Kinda but I don't care. Y'all care too much about people making a bang in their debut which isn't what happens to all artists. There's so much room for growth and I pray they do a better song in their comeback.
in my opinion the song was just underwhelming and forgettable, had the song itself been better then the shallow lyrics can be ignored. kpop has always had cringey lyrics but if the song is good then who cares? but this song has nothing else going on, and not only are they talking about imaginary haters but it's also about how rich they are which feels really weird? like this is their first song, they haven't made ANY money yet. either the lyrics are completely meaningless or they're talking about how they were all just born into rich families (which i belive they were) which doesn't make the listener feel empowered.
These girls have just debuted and they already got hatera
I don't mind the fake haters concept. It's general enough that it can apply to anything but specific enough that it still conjures a specific feeling in the listener. I agree it's more about style. They are good and I like Meovv but the YG signature wears out fast for me after 2-5 listens I tend to get a little bored and it all starts sounding the same to me....I just want those great moments of the song to continue and not have that empty chorus or outro
I think yg also focuses on too much solo and he cant blend the group well. i dont know how to explain it
I don’t really like Meow because the lyrics doesn’t really make sense and music video too,but now that you said your opinion I understand why people like meowv’s song and songs like blackpink. The creative concept that is in meowv’s mv is unique and very nice and the beats made the song catchy tbh,but the lyrics put a lot of people off a lot.
Personally I think the song is actually ok, pretty catchy but whatever typa vibes
HOWEVER imaging if the took the black cat concept and really properly fleshed it out with the styling the mv etc etc,,
I have no idea how old these girls are so dont take my suggestion seriously, but what if they did like cat suits or something very black cat-y almost to a theatrical level, then at least there would people who get obsessed with their concept (and haters but thats a stan twt problem)
I feel like when they introduced the group the concept was so strong then when they went on shows with normal ass looking outfits people were v disappointed bc of how good the branding felt upon their group poster thingies
When it comes to songs like Meow it honestly just makes me think back on how people hated how BP also only made songs on the same thing. Which is valid criticism.but for Meovv since its only their debut they have time to explore and show us their different sides musically
I like to call this style of song "bad bitch music" and yeah. I like to believe everyone needs a 'bad bitch' song that they get down to to get their confidence up. Money is that for me. Meow might be that for someone else.
The thing is this song doesn't even give off bad bitch or expensive as they want it's JUST stale
Maovv is like not bad but not good. But they are just BP2.0 i wished it was somthing different. Its like why can we just have more BP if they where just gann make this. Im a multi stan i want every group to sound different so i can stand them and tell the difference in every group.
The problem with this concept isn’t that is bad per se, it’s that it’s becoming a dime a dozen. Actually so filled up that even if you present it in away that’s never been done before it will still feel just as stale. It’s being roped in to the material concept now because K-pop is cycling on producers and song writers that have hyper specified there writing style to fit into this concept for a hope of getting a writing credit on a song a company picked up. I like this concept and I believe this concept still has a place, I think right now that concept just has to be in the form of a Bside right now. Something else should be offered up with them. I think that’s why only a hand full of groups have been successful with them, I’m thinking specifically of BTS, Blackpink, and Everglow. Taking Blackpink as my example here, Their earlier title tracks offered glimpses of parties, crushes, making memories, and more but it wasn’t really until How you like that for the group that we got a direct f*ck the haters song as a title track/pre release. Now you could maybe count KTL as a F the haters song but I don’t think their is a strong argument for it, but ether way they still don’t spend a lot of title tracks or pre-releases exclusively to f*ck you songs, how you like that was followed up by Ice cream and Lovesick girls for that project both songs that are notably absent of the haters. On the next project Born Pink they have Pink venom which came after Ready for love and was followed up by Shut down. Once again no flexing on the haters unless you count Blackpink flexing over the kpop industry in shut down as a f you to the haters song again. I’m not gonna say that those are the only songs that go f you to the haters in BP’s discography because that wouldn’t be truthful but the rest are Bsides. I’m thinking of songs like Typa Girl, Pretty savage, Love to hate me and The girls. Also looking at there solo songs Money and maybe Solo and LaLisa are the only songs really dedicated to flexing on the haters, though you could equally make a case that solo and LaLisa aren’t. Unfortunately this concept just isn’t being served the same way by groups of today who just want to skip to the part where they actually have haters to flex on, not saying they don’t but they haven’t really put the time in compared to the groups of yesteryear that have and had and still have almost as strong of a hater base as they do fanbase
i really coming to KPOP not expecting them to give me a lyric heavy song.
im happy with the sound, melody, the catchy MV
if im looking into meaningful lyric ill look into other genre
The thing is that they didn't make an effort in writing those lyrics or the song... the song is catchy, I have caught myself singing it. But it's just too irrelevant... it's not fun enough to be completely meaningless.
I don't mind a fake haters concept most of the time, but musically I just couldn't get behind MEOW. I'm not a fan of the YG sound and find really grating most of the time.
FIRST
The "fake haters" concept is hit or miss with me. I can vibe with it if the song itself is actually good or interesting, unfortunately Meow is neither of those things. The music, lyrics, and vocals (nothing against the girls, but none of these voices appeal to me or stand out in any way) all come together to make a whole lot of nothing. This feels like listening to a skeleton. There's no meat, flesh or details to appreciate.
if you want a meaningful song go find that artist, not every song has to be meaningful.
Honestly the expectations a lot of western kpop fans put on kpop groups gives me xenopho- vibes a lot of the time. I get that might not be their intention but it is how it comes off. ‘OH you want to come over here? And want us to like you?! Well we have VERY high standards and expectations. You better do everything right and bow and beg for acceptance at the end of it and MAYBE we’ll consider accepting you. Maybe’
Meanwhile bowing, and often begging (if you've ever seen newer idols ask the audience to please like them and their music almost every time they appear on TV) is literally a requirement of k-pop idols when promoting themselves in Korea specifically?
Fighting over lyrics not being "meaningful enough" brings me back to the trenches of twitter and "some people" attacking Blackpink over their lack of deep lyrics, as if everything has to be 6 levels deep into the most profound human feeling ever experienced.
Personally, I didn't like the song, but I didn't like black mamba from aespa either, and now I'm a complete fan. Perhaps YG just failed the whole delivery/concept, but at this point it seems like many bands are debuting with a formulaic tiktok song to get streams ASAP.
4:13 please, of course it's the style of the song 😭 these with the haters theme is just something that surfaced because the song wasn't good enough to make people not notice it. If it was a good song, no kpopie would give a flying f*ck for the lyrics.
Take IVE for example, they're always priced for good music production - how many of the people who say this actually look up or understand the lyrics to their songs?? Certainly not me lmao and I still wholeheartedly believe IVE has the best overall discography in 4th gen.
If Meovv released a banger but with the same lyrics, no one would have cared. People didn't like the song and from there on they started noticing its problems (with the hate "concept"), not the other way around
I hate a lot of kpop songs don’t get me wrong, but meow is just so slay unfortunately. YAHYAHYAHyahyahyahYAHYAHYAH
I love YG’s way of making songs,but what can I say? I’m a crazy blink.
i dont really care and i dont get why ppl get so het up about varied concepts and whatnot if its good song just enjoy it if not ignore it and move on. for some of us who have experienced such hate and whatever from ithers it is actually nice to have a song we can relate too i especially wouldve loved itzys songs if i had been 12/15 years old when it was released especially wannabe. i think the new kpop audiences are not only getting younger but they are forgetting to merely enjoy what these groups do and it seems so toxic that every small minorly "wrong" thing to do with a kpop group is looked at under a microscope like it really must take the fun out of it for the idols themselves.
imagine working so hard on a mv and then doing all the dance choreo for it just to have ppl shit on it? sure theres worse songs imho but for the kpop audiences to then cry about itzy being flops is due to others lack of faith in the group or every song being bashed and decrease in support for the group. compared to the likes of bts and blackpink who had an easier market as they were one of the fewer grouos at the time of their debuts it feels like other groups now have such a short time to gain publics respect for their efforts otherwise if its one "bad" song it mean they flopped?