4K pinball playfield comparison between Ultra HD and HD
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ย. 2015
- Comparison between a 40" 4K Ultra HD monitor and a 40" HD monitor.
It turns out to be very difficult to get the differences recorded with a camera. In real life the difference is much bigger than I can show you here. In 4K the 3D models look much sharper and the playfield image is also sharper. It looks very nice. Too bad the screen lag makes it unplayable otherwise I would go for a 4K screen.
Here's the link to the comparison pictures: goo.gl/photos/esnFKb3MmNNGu4ra7
Philips monitor used is: Philips 40" 4K Ultra HD Monitor Brilliance 4K UHD BDM4065UC/00 - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Yes, I got it all upgraded to UHD and fitted and I couldn't see the resolution difference so much but the ball was LAGGY and it was like the ball woud disappear. It needs as faster refresh rate. I sent my UHD back and kept my older 1080 p monitor. It does just fine and I saved $500. I used the money for a 3rd DMD screen, digital plunger, better speakers and more tables. Thanks so much for posting this!
too bad the lighting was not even close on both screens, the one on the right is really brighter and it does not help the comparison
just what i was thinking
I'm glad you mentioned the screen lag.
Great info 👍 yes,1080p looks almost as good as 4k, less expensive, runs smoother.
This is ridicolous comparision, the screens are not with equal settings, and demo vídeo isnt in 4k to see sharpness diference… Seriously go medic…
Is there screen burn with these models
I agree. You really have to have a high end CPU, and GPU, in order to play with less lag, on a UHD monitor. I've had to stick to a 1080P monitor, even though I'm going to be using a Core i7, 16GB, and an Nvidia GTX1050ti card. Frame rate is king in V.pins. It's got to run smoothly, and lag free, or one is just wasting money, and time. Frankly, with my vision, I can't tell the difference between normal HD, and UHD, unless I use a strong magnifier, to look at them closely. LOL Thanks for the comparison.
Thanks for the video. I'm going to be buy one very shortly. You can definitely see the difference in the lag. So I will just buy a Hd machine instead and can save a few bucks in the process.🙂
A question is still to be clarified, which Hz number has the TV 4K? With us is standard 60Hz but a friend would like to use a 200Hz TV. As graphics card, the Nividia 2070 8GB would be used and the processor is an I9 Model 9900K
a 2070 can probably play a few e-sport titles at 4k 200hz, should be plenty for a simple pinball emulator
your friend is trump?
Maybe we could tell if the camera wasn’t bouncing
Ive got a 4k 3d tv for a PinCab build and dont have any problems with lag (tx43-cxw754),
if you go for a 4k tv:
1. Make sure its got decent input lag, most tvs have a game mode that cuts down input lag a lot.
2. Make sure you can run your TV @4k 60hz, just with hdmi 1.4 youll only get 29 or 30hz.
For 60 hz youll usually need a TV with a hdmi 2.0 input and a GPU with a hdmi 2.0 output (only the newer generations cards have these) or a gpu with a Display Port 1.2 connector and an active DP 1.2 to HDMI 2.0 adapter.
3. Make sure your pc can handle it, the load on your gpu will be about 4x what it would be in 1080p. Pinball doesnt take as much recources to run as modern AAA games though, an entry level gaming pc is enough.
I am building a fresh machine.
Seiki 40" 4k monitor at 60hz being pushed by a 1080TI. Needless to say I am very much looking forward to this. I chose this route since the monitor will fit perfectly in a standard body pin with minimal modification.
yes, you need to change the setting inside the monitor settings to Display Port 1.2 and of course use a DP 1,2 or higher cable. And to be able to play games over 60 FPS in full 4k you need a GeForce GTX 1080 Ti graphic card. Or two 980 ti graphic cards or something like that. So basically this guy don't know what he is doing
Only use a 4k monitor if your table textures are in 4k.. Other point, is , unless you have a very powerful machine to play in 4k, you can set the screen resolution to 1080, so you will get a fast play and pixel free on a 4k monitor.. but, to be honest, 1080p is great resolution.. the larger the monitor the bigger the difference between a 1080 and a 4k monitor.. so for such small monitor, im sure there's no big difference..
What do you think is the main reason for the screen lag? Lower FPS since it takes longer to render or the refresh rate of the screen itself?
+pre10dr It is because of the screen itself. I had a Blaupunkt 4K TV (Blaupunkt B39C4K) before this for an other project and that input lag was even worse. It is a nice screen for waching TV but as a computer monitor it is useless. So it improves with newer generations but still not good enough. I think it is because of the processor in the monitor. Apparently input from a PC is different compared to internal AV inputs.
+Hans de Bruin (Ctrl-Alt-Dude) Thanks for clearing that up. Since iam in the process of deciding for Hardware of my first pinball cab this is good to now. Still as a techie i would like to see if there are affordable 4k displays which are capable of outputting at least 60 fps without a significant lag.
+pre10dr Well if you look at real computer monitors, the specs say 1 ms. For example: Samsung 28" LU28E85KRS. But in my opinion it's quite useless to have 4K at such a small screen. I find it hard to count pixels at my 30" 2500x1600 screen. 4K is only interesting at 40" and up. But I think the current generation monitors/TVs at that size are simply not good enough yet. But if you find one, let me know because I still believe 4K is best for a playfield.
+Hans de Bruin (Ctrl-Alt-Dude) I think the Philipps BDM4350UD is the answer... with a nice 4k card.
the difference is immense, it isn't shown in the video very well but i find it enormous
Yeah there is no way in hell one's gonna be able to tell the difference when filming a TV. You can't film a TV all the colors bleed and stuff.. The only thing I noticed is the frame rate was better on the 1080P one.. but the thing is, 1050ti, even 1660 is outdated.. You gotta get a rtx 2080 or 3080.. I am not sure what is required.. I can't imagine pinball would take massively strong graphics card to run in 4k. but I dunno.
anyone know the pros and cons of using an old 42 or 50 inch plasma ( 1920 x 1080 )?
Heat dissipation may be a problem when higher energy using plasma tvs are horizontal. I would also be worried about laying a 50" piece of glass horizontally, since glass is transported vertically (42 should be okay). I have moved a 65" plasma twice in the back of my SUV horizontally without issue.
You can’t lay a plasma tv on its back for extended periods of time without ruining it.
@@Gameroomofthrones Precisely, not to mention enclosing it in a box. You would only be setting yourself up for failure. Just buy a piece of glass fitted for your cabinet if you HAVE to have a glass top.. Just make sure when you're enclosing it that you have all of the dust out, because you ain't gettin back in the mofo lol
Do you have the exact reference and/or the input lag of the 4k screen ? I've find a 4k samsung screen with a 28 ms input lag which looks quite decent to me as best FullHD screens have 17 ms input lag.
+toto toto The make and model are: Philips 40" 4K Ultra HD Monitor Brilliance 4K UHD BDM4065UC/00. According to the specs, response time from gray to gray is 3 ms.
I've read that you need to use display port to be able to get 4K@60hz so perhaps that was the problem. I used HDMI. If I have time I will post an update to this using display port.
+Hans de Bruin (Ctrl-Alt-Dude) : I think that the input lag measure is more impacting in a pincab than gray to gray time, I've found that your monitor has a 21 ms input lag which is excellent and quite similar to what best fullhd screens provide. Newer 4k screens won't have significantly reduced gtg and/or input lag than your 4k monitor because it has already excellent specs.
Can you share the cpu/graphic card you are using in your pincabs ? Did you try to play at a fullhd resolution on the 4k monitor to validate that it's not your PC that limits reactivity in 4k resolution ?
I agree with you that HDMI locking @30hz could be an explanation for the lag you're observing
+toto toto Thanks for your feedback. I will look at it again and post an update.
+Hans de Bruin (Ctrl-Alt-Dude) thanks to you to help us in choosing the right screen for our pincab ;)
+Hans de Bruin (Ctrl-Alt-Dude) Hello Hans, any news about your update ? I'm very interested by knowing if using display port solves your lag issue.
Hans, hoe is de kijkhoek van de lcd tv 1080?
Kijkhoek is geen probleem. Recente LCD-panels hebben dat probleem niet meer.
Klopt het dat je ook Pinball FX3 had draaien? Zo ja.. ik krijg dat niet voor elkaar met cabinete mode. Game detecteert 2e monitor niet. Dus ik kan de dotmatrix en background niet verplaatsen naar de 2e monitor.
Nee ik gebruikte alleen Visual Pinball.
Wert nu wel ;)
if the screen lag is bad with VP9, it would be ridiculously bad with VPX.
Seems the reaction time on the 4K was way off..... just what I could see.
How r we supposed to tell the difference if the video is in HD?
The thing that bothers me the most about virtual pinball is the view angle: it doesn't make sense to play in front of an (almost) horizontal screen using an image that's designed to be seen on a vertical PC screen. Unless you play it looking straight down at the monitor, you'll have a distorted image that immediately gives away the flatness of the graphics. I've always wondered if this solution could be viable: have the image distorted, so that it looks right from the player's front view (it should work like some flat ad panels in Formula1 circuits, that are artfully distorted so they look vertical on TV). I know the illusion can be easily ruined by player movement - unless you're exactly at the right distance, the effect won't work - but if you can track the player's eyes with a camera (just like the New Nintendo 3DS does with its enanced 3D) the graphics could adjust in real time. Anybody tried this yet?
catoblepag there is software that can track your position with a MS Kinect or PS Move camera and actually display the correct angle as you move.
I’d think refresh rate would be more important for a table
If you're worried about screen lag/motion blur (input lag and response time) go for gaming monitors. I'd suggest IPS screen types for their superior color though a TN would offer better overall performance at the cost of visuals.
LLB LLB i bet a monitor that big would be pricey.
@@mrburns366 Yep 42 inch 4k pc monitor = ~$2,000
my friend its me again....even with future pinball it works much better or just with visual ? thank you again my friend
Well the screen is sharper because the resolution is higher. So that's always better because you're only standing an armslength away from the monitor.
But every table was updated do receive 4k ? Or you talking about some beeing updated and the others forcing this resolution at config ?!
No the textures usually are not 4K but that's not a problem. It looks a bit blurry but still better than a 1920x1080 resolution at armslength.
Mooie vergelijking Hans.Ben van plan ook een Pinball te maken.Jij ervaring in het ontwerpen?
Tjsa dat is wel een rabbithole waar je in rolt... Ik zou kijken naar wat voor beeldscherm je wilt gebruiken en daar de kast enzo op afstemmen. Destijds ben ik via een filmpje van tweakers erin gerold. th-cam.com/video/ct5dOpIV-s8/w-d-xo.html
Best pinball ever
Funny how this video is in 1080p maximum - how are we supposed to see the difference bro?
Perhaps slightly sharper image with better colors, BUT motion BLURRRRR horribly. The HRZ cannot keep up with the fast moving balls and flippers...Its almost like the benchmark test that they run with the white ball for motion blur or distortion...that would drive me nuts more than a pithy gain in saturation or sharpness.
unless the table is rendered in 4k detail, you aren't getting anything better on a 4k monitor. I would send the 4k monitor a 1080p signal and you likely wouldn't know the difference in table detail...but playability would be much better.
Je kunt beter een gaming monitor gebruiken ipv een televisie.
Klopt. Kijk maar een op www.digitalpinball.nl. Staat een filmpje over het verschil TV en gaming monitor
This video is no longer relevant. But even 7 years ago the "lag" was your PC, had nothing to do with the screen. Now we have HDMI 2.1 @ 120Hz. Zero issues. Zero lag.
cant tell anything from this video, 4K screen flickers like there is some timing thing going on between the refresh of the monitor and shutter speed of the cam. 1080 looks way brighter, and 4k looks like it has a dark patch in the middle. Your video is only in 1080P anyway, so how the fark is anyone going to be able see the difference. Sheesh Give me my 9 minutes back.
Pass for now but thanks. Not going to go buy a whole other monitor and reprogram it all for a clearer picture. My eyesight isn't that great anyway.
The contrast, Brightness & lighting has been set poorly or not at all on the 1080 screen so this is pointless ........ get a tripod too
I dont even see any diff..
Try the best visual expirence using directx 11. The ligths is more realistic. Use pinball arcade with steam.
lol I thought I sucked at pinball, compared to you I am a pinball wizard!
Those first 4 instant-drains... I haven't actually laughed out loud at a youtube video in quite a while...
Lol
how can you compare the two with a video in 1080p :) everything looks crap
It appears he compensated by pushing the brightness way up on the 1080 screen so the highlights were all blown out.
I know it's hard to tell on TH-cam but the 1080p looks more realistic less digital then the 4k setup on the right. Too bright and color saturated.
That's great but the 4K screen is the one on the left.
the men said 4k on left, and the brightness has nothing to do with resolution, its just a very bad demo vídeo...
They both look flat as if i am starring through a fish tank at it with no perspective.
Look up the videos of Virtual pinball with BAM and Kinect. Probably the solution.
i prefer the real pinball
Nobody cares.
I do too but sometimes we don't have 3 grand to spend on a machine. I made one of these for under 1 grand and it's pretty cool. Plus you get multiple tables
i care
TheGta4you...good for you
Grazie al cazzo