I gotta tell you KT,,, I know this part of it all gets boring as hell for you,,, after dealing with hundreds & hundreds of these scenarios... but even though I hope i dont have to get into mine this deep again,,, I wanted you to know that your teaching, and opinion skills never get old.. I take away something each time I watch these episodes
tatro somewhere you said that the interverance fit of the cylinder stud goes to the crankcase, not so, and that is why the threads are pulled! The shoulder on the stud has to go to the crankcase: at 10' # torque, read the manual. If the shoulder on the stud was installed toward the cylinder head, the headbolt will bottom out against the shoulder and drive the stud so far into the case that the stud is trying to go where there aren't any threads! There by pulling the threads out of the case! george shrigley v twin vitals
you are completely wrong about everything you said. harley has made every combanation of the studs over the years and had different directions for each of them. most were only with the studs, not in a book. here is some common since. if the interverance fit threads were in the case than the studs would stay put as you tightened the head nuts. if the interverance fit threads were in the head nuts than the studs would just screw into the case until they bottomed out in the case. this would very little threads in the nuts to hold the head down. the stud shoulder can be anywhere because it has to real job to do. if you think i am wronge than go see how every harley motor before evos were done. they had no shoulders at all on them. don't belive everything you read, use your brain. tatro
Make a an insert out of stainless as large as th hole in cylinder. Put cases on the mill pickup the hole. Drill and tap the size of custom made insert.
Hi Tatro, regarding the Piston Circlips... I believe the rebuild must have been done by a regular car mechanic instead of a Harley Dude. They probably pinched the clips to make it easy to install (Lazy bastids) Good thing you are looking it over (Kenny from Brooklyn)
How did these head bolts become stripped out and loosen up in the first place? Were they over tourqed from the factory in the beginning ?or did some one overtighten them trying to do a repair?
I have this exact engine with this exact problem. I’m about halfway through the repair here at the home shop so it’s very fresh in my mind. According to S&S techs themselves the cylinder studs can stretch or strip for a few different reasons, #1 because of a rider with the tendency to run high r’s in lower gears often, #2 poor rebuild with over torquing, #3 being a dumbass and tearing ass down the road right from a cold start with no warmup time. Hope I was informative.
listen dumbass, i was checking to see what the other shop did so i would know what is screwed up before it breaks again. threads are over stressed and the cases are junk now. so what do we do next. fix them or replace them. tatro
Wand camera. Gotta be careful about oil on it so you can see. They are cheap and you can get in like you extended fingers. New cases. Best plan. With such workmanship how can anyone trust the rest of the story with that engine? Looks like a tear down and fix or replace as you go.
l have one of these S&S 113's in my chop (Swift bar chopper),never had issues like that.S&S usually pretty bullet proof is my understanding.ls it a case of reputation far exceed's fact/friday 4pm engine etc.
So your saying don't believe the Harley Service manual? tatro you should use your brain, with the particular cylinder studs that have the shoulder, the shoulder goes to the case. (ref)Page 3-67 of 1997-98 Softail Service Manual. If this type of stud were installed with the collar up the head bolt or nut bottoms against the collar FORCING the stud into the case to the point where it pulls the threads or at the least starts to pull the threads in the case. Have you looked or measured the depth of the threads in the Evo cases? They are not threaded all the way thru the case! I agree that Harley has had alot of different stud/headbolt, nut configurations and that is what i am saying, Believe what the Manual says, or at least use the manuals.Don"t necessarily believe what you Hear on You Tube. Why do you think these studs pulled?
thats nice, now what about all the other years and styles of cylinder studs harley has used over the years. figuare out which end goes where and install them correctly for that style of stud. tatro
I worked with parts changers for over 40 years. Parts changers throw parts at it until something finally fixes it. Mechanics figure out what went wrong and correct it. It doesn't take me long to spot a poser and Tatro is not a parts changer. Now you, on the other hand, are still to be determined. Talk is cheap.
I gotta tell you KT,,, I know this part of it all gets boring as hell for you,,, after dealing with hundreds & hundreds of these scenarios... but even though I hope i dont have to get into mine this deep again,,, I wanted you to know that your teaching, and opinion skills never get old.. I take away something each time I watch these episodes
every one of them are different and they all screw with you in their own ways.
tatro
Very informative. Thank you Tatro.
Great video. I learned a lot about Evo cases and studs.
Old evos gotta love em.
Tatro, thanks for the all vids. I learn something every video.
tatro somewhere you said that the interverance fit of the cylinder stud goes to the crankcase, not so, and that is why the threads are pulled! The shoulder on the stud has to go to the crankcase: at 10' # torque, read the manual. If the shoulder on the stud was installed toward the cylinder head, the headbolt will bottom out against the shoulder and drive the stud so far into the case that the stud is trying to go where there aren't any threads! There by pulling the threads out of the case! george shrigley v twin vitals
you are completely wrong about everything you said. harley has made every combanation of the studs over the years and had different directions for each of them. most were only with the studs, not in a book.
here is some common since. if the interverance fit threads were in the case than the studs would stay put as you tightened the head nuts. if the interverance fit threads were in the head nuts than the studs would just screw into the case until they bottomed out in the case. this would very little threads in the nuts to hold the head down. the stud shoulder can be anywhere because it has to real job to do. if you think i am wronge than go see how every harley motor before evos were done. they had no shoulders at all on them. don't belive everything you read, use your brain.
tatro
I agree with you KT new cases rebuild it correctly
Make a an insert out of stainless as large as th hole in cylinder. Put cases on the mill pickup the hole. Drill and tap the size of custom made insert.
Hello! Please record a video about the assembly of this motor.
Hi Tatro, regarding the Piston Circlips... I believe the rebuild must have been done by a regular car mechanic instead of a Harley Dude. They probably pinched the clips to make it easy to install (Lazy bastids) Good thing you are looking it over (Kenny from Brooklyn)
You like the ultima motors,im thinki g of getti g the 113 twin cam A motor replacement,can i use the stock transmission?
yes, but you will need to upgrade your clutch.
tatro
How did these head bolts become stripped out and loosen up in the first place? Were they over tourqed from the factory in the beginning ?or did some one overtighten them trying to do a repair?
I have this exact engine with this exact problem. I’m about halfway through the repair here at the home shop so it’s very fresh in my mind. According to S&S techs themselves the cylinder studs can stretch or strip for a few different reasons, #1 because of a rider with the tendency to run high r’s in lower gears often, #2 poor rebuild with over torquing, #3 being a dumbass and tearing ass down the road right from a cold start with no warmup time. Hope I was informative.
I thought I saw a insert in that hole way down where it originated
I may have to give the safety man a call. Working in a machine shop barefooted. NO NO NO
no, i cleared it with the boss and all is good.
tatro
Whay motor do you like better s@s or ultimas?
yes, which parts. they both have good and bad parts.
tatro
What was that you said at 14:36? Are you trolling us? 60 ft lbs? The spec is 38-42. No wonder the studs are pulling haha. You're so Keenan Tatro.
listen dumbass, i was checking to see what the other shop did so i would know what is screwed up before it breaks again. threads are over stressed and the cases are junk now. so what do we do next. fix them or replace them.
tatro
Wand camera. Gotta be careful about oil on it so you can see. They are cheap and you can get in like you extended fingers. New cases. Best plan. With such workmanship how can anyone trust the rest of the story with that engine? Looks like a tear down and fix or replace as you go.
that is correct.
tatro
What's with the bare feet ,treading grapes ? lol
He regularly wears no shoes in his shop. Even if he's in the milling machine room
l have one of these S&S 113's in my chop (Swift bar chopper),never had issues like that.S&S usually pretty bullet proof is my understanding.ls it a case of reputation far exceed's fact/friday 4pm engine etc.
An it's the best motor made eh.... sad
So your saying don't believe the Harley Service manual? tatro you should use your brain, with the particular cylinder studs that have the shoulder, the shoulder goes to the case. (ref)Page 3-67 of 1997-98 Softail Service Manual. If this type of stud were installed with the collar up the head bolt or nut bottoms against the collar FORCING the stud into the case to the point where it pulls the threads or at the least starts to pull the threads in the case. Have you looked or measured the depth of the threads in the Evo cases? They are not threaded all the way thru the case! I agree that Harley has had alot of different stud/headbolt, nut configurations and that is what i am saying, Believe what the Manual says, or at least use the manuals.Don"t necessarily believe what you Hear on You Tube. Why do you think these studs pulled?
thats nice, now what about all the other years and styles of cylinder studs harley has used over the years. figuare out which end goes where and install them correctly for that style of stud.
tatro
Parts changer not a tech !
close, a tech is a parts changer and a mechanic fixes things no matter what it takes.
tatro
I worked with parts changers for over 40 years. Parts changers throw parts at it until something finally fixes it. Mechanics figure out what went wrong and correct it. It doesn't take me long to spot a poser and Tatro is not a parts changer. Now you, on the other hand, are still to be determined. Talk is cheap.
Maybe he meant the person who put the engine together at the other shop
@@stonegallimore1163 if that is so, please accept my humble apologies, I can delete or edit.