Totally agree, Tarkov has a certain grind to it, but that's a necessary gameplay mechanic. You don't want to easily achievable goals, that would be plain boring.
For me and I know this is not a popular idea but everyone on a standard account should be the way. I don't want to go into the advantages of EOD but if you have it you know what they are and start of wipe it helps just with the gamma and stash size not to mention the other perks that come with it. Skills and audio also put me off massively, I think more logic and common sense needs to be implemented.
I actually agree with you. With EOD, we're actually skipping parts of the content and the challenges of getting items to increase stash size. It also makes most of the secure containers irrelevant. Definitely removes some of the achievement and goals.
Honestly a good level three to four is all you need, other than that high flesh ammo is available early so going for face taps and legs is a good strategy. I agree that good found in raid armor and ammo should be more available. But we will have to see where BSG take it
the balance between people that are high and low level seems good to me. I reset my account late this wipe and haven't struggled against high levels. I do think traders and flea need adjustments items that you use to barter things from traders shouldn't be on flea as that's just using roubles with extra steps and trader gear should be more basic with quests unlocking better items or even crafting recipes to make the good stuff.
i think, being a player who doesnt have a lot of time to play because of school and stuff, it is a bit too much grinding, i get that i just "have to play more" but i cant. and its just pretty unfair towards casual playes like me.
Yes the gamer who plays the game 8h a day are a small fraction of the player base, but because they play a lot is more easly find them then a casual player
During off-peak times, the amount difference of NON-casual to Casual will be higher. It's still a fact that there are more casual players. It's just hard to tell if they are or not sometimes.
I wouldn't say it's grindy. The issue, at least, for me is that the queue time eats into you playing time. I usually only ha e an hour or so to play every other day or so. It got to a point where it felt I was queuing more than playing. That is one area where The Cycle stood out. I could have 4/5 raids compared to 1/2 Tarkovs raids in my limited time.
This I definitely agree on. I stream Tarkov most days and regularly get 5 minute queues, from "Ready" to entering the raid. It's way too long for me, so it's definitely too long for someone like yourself.
But is that an issue with the game? If you play the same game over and over again, should you expect it to be different? Don't forget these are side quests and we're expecting the main storyline quests to help with this.
It's got a good mix of progression and challenging gameplay. The only issue people usually have is that they feel like they're always outgeared. I think what I mentioned in the video, about found in raid gear, could definitely help alleviate this.
It's too grindy when you dont know the ins and outs of Tarkov. Knowing the maps, quests, how to handle the AI etc. That's how it makes the game grindy. When you surpass those, the of course It's not as grindy...it just depends on your experience. It also doesnt help that you have to go to third party sites in order to just learn the game. That really takes the fun out of the learning process.
Agreed, first wipe sucks the life out of you learning the game, especially when you work full time, go gym most days a week, other stuff, and then tarkov time...
I understand. But do you not think that your first wipe was the most fun? Learning, understanding, progressing? Those are the good times, and we don't realise it until it's gone. As I mentioned, tutorials will become a thing in the game. You also have to understand that BSG wants players to learn for themselves. Obviously this adds on time required to learn and therefore making it slightly more grindy. But I think it adds to the experience, personally.
@HayzStreams heck no man. The only people with that sentiment are people who have played Tarkov way too much. I'm sorry, but that's not a shared opinion. The first 2-3 wipes are just flat out miserable. Googling tutorials, having to research values of items, and constantly having to search for info on a video game is the worst part about Tarkov (also the aimbot AI). Nobody that has < 10 hrs a week to play can just "learn for themselves." That's why I'm most excited for Arena, haha.
its too much waiting in queue and sitting in the inventory screen. i may get 2 hours to play after work. an hour of that is sitting there twiddling my thumbs. Because of this i play a couple months and move on.
imho is more casual than it is used to be. I don't remember making money so easy like in this wipe. Got level 20 in 2 weeks playing 2-3 raids a day. But this is tied to the game having less players and my knowledge of the game. So I would say the game have a steep learning curve.
I'm new and I don't like how I've just done the Bullsh*t quest, got the CMMG and RD and can't even get BP, can't go using PS on a 350k kitted out rifle lol. Not just that, tarkov doesn't respect your time imo, they need to change the XP model system, and questline. I'm 2nd wipe and I'm almost already sick of doing the quests. Feel sorry for you people doing it 5th + times, think I'll get max traders next wipe in 1st month and quit for 2 wipes until they update performance, new engine with Unity, and a fully done up Arena and Streets expansion
I agree they need to overhaul the loot system in terms of availability. So then you can use PS ammo without feeling like it's never going to be enough. If you feel like the quests are repetitive, do you think they should change them every wipe to completely different new ones? That's pretty unrealistic. If you're only playing to do quests and progress, maybe wait for a few wipes until new maps, new tasks and the full Tarkov main storyline comes out when it releases?
I don't like the fact that they're making the game more grindy. For wipes they've been moving decent gear and ammo further and further up the progression (making things locked behind higher LL traders and making normally level-locked items quest locked too). I feel like whenever I start adapting to the old level of grind they add even more grind the following wipe. Another example of that would be changing the quest progression by placing normally unimportant or dead-end tedious quests earlier in the quest chain than they normally come (for example setup), or switching punisher part 4 to a (n arguably) more difficult map (shoreline -> lighthouse). A lot of cool new stuff they add is usually locked behind lightkeeper, which is something 98% of the playerbase will never unlock. In general I'm not really a fan of lighthouse or streets, or tasks on either of those maps. Streets I could probably learn but the horrible performance would still remain an issue, as for lighthouse, rogue camp is just cancer, I could tolerate the tasks in any other part of the map other than it, but a lot of them are in the rogue camp. Also, I'm not sure if this is true but I feel like they reduced quest rep rewards for certain tasks. All this combined with the increasing levels of P2W (or pay for easier progression, however you like to call it) such as them adding MTX and then Unheard Edition are really discouraging me from continuing to play this game at all, what's the point of playing if I'm already struggling to keep up with the ever-increasing grind, knowing that people with deep pockets will have it easier. It's a shame, I really like this game, I've played it for like 5 wipes, there's nothing that can really replace it, but I really can't deal with the aforementioned shit anymore, ever since I started playing I never skipped a wipe, but I feel like the next wipe will be definitely be the first one I skip, in fact I doubt I'll return to the game at all.
I think BSG sometimes mistakes progression for "grinding". I also think that we expect too much in relation to time spent playing. Every wipe, we'll spend at least 200+ hours or whatever getting to max traders. 200 Hours is a LONG TIME for any game. We're so conditioned into thinking that a game needs to provide thousands of hours of content and enjoyment, and if we get bored after that... Its the games fault. We need to reel in expectations and understand that games have a shelf life and enjoyment CAN end after time. Its no one's fault. Just how things are.
I feel if they made it less grindy, then the good players would just be more stacked and the bad players would have nothing. It would change nothing, but make everyone annoyed and result in the game being less fun.
@@HayzStreams its like my 7th wipe, my overall problem is just, i love tarkov absolutely much, but i cant grind every time, i dont have that much time, tarkov is like a second job, so much time consuming, ik it sounds like bitching but thats life.
ok so here is the truth first I used to have a lot of time on my hand I have over 8k hours playing over 8h a day , then i changed jobs and barely had time to play 1h a day maybe each 2 days from this perspective I can tell you this. this game is grindy , let me explain first 200h of any wipe till this last wipe I could be 45 knowing all the task by heart and how to do them with effacing methods then the game start to get boring and more about the pvp to have fun there is nothing more to do after max traders and 50mil in the first 200/250 hours now the question , can everyone be 45 and have 50mil in 200h which is around 3h a day for 2 month , the answer is no , not everyone is a walking wiki for the game which puts this game in 2 stats , 1 is the experienced player who can do that and 2 the casual who dont have time / dont know the game in-depth what dose that mean , it mean that casual player will have to spend more time doing basic things in order to catch up to a person who knows a lot more sure its a normal thing ofc but then as you said you can simply take a chance and go vs 2 player and win and take their gear but that's up to chance / luck / situation / how good is your play style etc the issue is not the better ammo or better gear or even play style a person who grind in tarkov has the benefit of skills . better endurance , carry more stuff , run faster , take more hits without bleeding the game rewards you the more you play , the more you play the stronger you become , almost to a point where its a disadvantage, also a casual player who have 3mil level 22 mid wipe , will not be able to afford a full kit at his level when the prices of things and the availability of it from traders is very limited to them . if you grind and get those skills and traders up you get , cheaper gun mods , cheaper meds , better armors , better ammo , etc while a lvl 22 for example have to relay on the fle market and be under the high prices ,as i said the game rewards you the more you play it , knowlage wise and skills wise , casual play will enjoy the game but they will not get the full tarkov experience if they dont grind
i think the crafting times should be lowered and recipes should be tweaked. lot of the quests are just tedious as well. and i want m80 to get back to peacekeeper 3 or 2 whatever the hell it used to be. also those russian fucks nerfed the hell outta the m4 because they know a m4's recoil is significantly easier to control compared to an ak.
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Short answer is yes, long answer, fuck that.
Totally agree, Tarkov has a certain grind to it, but that's a necessary gameplay mechanic. You don't want to easily achievable goals, that would be plain boring.
Yeah man cuz grinding for literally 300+ hours to get armour that can actually stop a bullet is fun
For me and I know this is not a popular idea but everyone on a standard account should be the way. I don't want to go into the advantages of EOD but if you have it you know what they are and start of wipe it helps just with the gamma and stash size not to mention the other perks that come with it. Skills and audio also put me off massively, I think more logic and common sense needs to be implemented.
I actually agree with you.
With EOD, we're actually skipping parts of the content and the challenges of getting items to increase stash size.
It also makes most of the secure containers irrelevant. Definitely removes some of the achievement and goals.
Honestly a good level three to four is all you need, other than that high flesh ammo is available early so going for face taps and legs is a good strategy. I agree that good found in raid armor and ammo should be more available. But we will have to see where BSG take it
the balance between people that are high and low level seems good to me. I reset my account late this wipe and haven't struggled against high levels. I do think traders and flea need adjustments items that you use to barter things from traders shouldn't be on flea as that's just using roubles with extra steps and trader gear should be more basic with quests unlocking better items or even crafting recipes to make the good stuff.
i think, being a player who doesnt have a lot of time to play because of school and stuff, it is a bit too much grinding, i get that i just "have to play more" but i cant. and its just pretty unfair towards casual playes like me.
My question would be: What are your expectations when you start your wipe?
@@HayzStreams what? like how much i want to level up in like a week or? i dont really understand the question sorry
@@21ninpo sorry, I should rephrase. How far do you expect to get throughout the wipe?
@@HayzStreams uhm, if i actually play through the whole wipe, i expect level 30-50. im still a beginner so i dont expect to get too far
@@21ninpo ok, that's not bad at all. What is it you find unfair? What would you want to see changed?
Yes the gamer who plays the game 8h a day are a small fraction of the player base, but because they play a lot is more easly find them then a casual player
During off-peak times, the amount difference of NON-casual to Casual will be higher.
It's still a fact that there are more casual players. It's just hard to tell if they are or not sometimes.
I wouldn't say it's grindy. The issue, at least, for me is that the queue time eats into you playing time. I usually only ha e an hour or so to play every other day or so. It got to a point where it felt I was queuing more than playing. That is one area where The Cycle stood out. I could have 4/5 raids compared to 1/2 Tarkovs raids in my limited time.
This I definitely agree on. I stream Tarkov most days and regularly get 5 minute queues, from "Ready" to entering the raid.
It's way too long for me, so it's definitely too long for someone like yourself.
It’s not too grindy… it’s that the quests are now so repetitive. I cannot get excited for the wipe when I have the same tasks for years now.
But is that an issue with the game? If you play the same game over and over again, should you expect it to be different?
Don't forget these are side quests and we're expecting the main storyline quests to help with this.
Good video. Agree with high tear ammo need find in raid
I think there are definitely a few places that need to be smoothed out a bit but overall I think its in a decent spot.
It's got a good mix of progression and challenging gameplay.
The only issue people usually have is that they feel like they're always outgeared.
I think what I mentioned in the video, about found in raid gear, could definitely help alleviate this.
It's too grindy when you dont know the ins and outs of Tarkov. Knowing the maps, quests, how to handle the AI etc. That's how it makes the game grindy. When you surpass those, the of course It's not as grindy...it just depends on your experience.
It also doesnt help that you have to go to third party sites in order to just learn the game. That really takes the fun out of the learning process.
Agreed, first wipe sucks the life out of you learning the game, especially when you work full time, go gym most days a week, other stuff, and then tarkov time...
@Iangers my first wipe was definitely a struggle. My second wipe was worse though because flea was lvl 20 haha 😄
@@Magswap Lol, I started on the level 20 requirement haha, hurts xD
I understand.
But do you not think that your first wipe was the most fun? Learning, understanding, progressing?
Those are the good times, and we don't realise it until it's gone.
As I mentioned, tutorials will become a thing in the game. You also have to understand that BSG wants players to learn for themselves. Obviously this adds on time required to learn and therefore making it slightly more grindy. But I think it adds to the experience, personally.
@HayzStreams heck no man. The only people with that sentiment are people who have played Tarkov way too much. I'm sorry, but that's not a shared opinion. The first 2-3 wipes are just flat out miserable.
Googling tutorials, having to research values of items, and constantly having to search for info on a video game is the worst part about Tarkov (also the aimbot AI).
Nobody that has < 10 hrs a week to play can just "learn for themselves." That's why I'm most excited for Arena, haha.
its too much waiting in queue and sitting in the inventory screen. i may get 2 hours to play after work. an hour of that is sitting there twiddling my thumbs. Because of this i play a couple months and move on.
I hope this changes upon the Tarkov's release. They're pushing for less in menu's and more time in-raid.
imho is more casual than it is used to be. I don't remember making money so easy like in this wipe. Got level 20 in 2 weeks playing 2-3 raids a day. But this is tied to the game having less players and my knowledge of the game. So I would say the game have a steep learning curve.
Back when Bitcoin was 800K+, that was easy money making. But if you know how to make money, it definitely isn't an issue.
I'm new and I don't like how I've just done the Bullsh*t quest, got the CMMG and RD and can't even get BP, can't go using PS on a 350k kitted out rifle lol. Not just that, tarkov doesn't respect your time imo, they need to change the XP model system, and questline. I'm 2nd wipe and I'm almost already sick of doing the quests. Feel sorry for you people doing it 5th + times, think I'll get max traders next wipe in 1st month and quit for 2 wipes until they update performance, new engine with Unity, and a fully done up Arena and Streets expansion
I agree they need to overhaul the loot system in terms of availability. So then you can use PS ammo without feeling like it's never going to be enough.
If you feel like the quests are repetitive, do you think they should change them every wipe to completely different new ones? That's pretty unrealistic.
If you're only playing to do quests and progress, maybe wait for a few wipes until new maps, new tasks and the full Tarkov main storyline comes out when it releases?
I don't like the fact that they're making the game more grindy. For wipes they've been moving decent gear and ammo further and further up the progression (making things locked behind higher LL traders and making normally level-locked items quest locked too). I feel like whenever I start adapting to the old level of grind they add even more grind the following wipe.
Another example of that would be changing the quest progression by placing normally unimportant or dead-end tedious quests earlier in the quest chain than they normally come (for example setup), or switching punisher part 4 to a (n arguably) more difficult map (shoreline -> lighthouse). A lot of cool new stuff they add is usually locked behind lightkeeper, which is something 98% of the playerbase will never unlock.
In general I'm not really a fan of lighthouse or streets, or tasks on either of those maps. Streets I could probably learn but the horrible performance would still remain an issue, as for lighthouse, rogue camp is just cancer, I could tolerate the tasks in any other part of the map other than it, but a lot of them are in the rogue camp. Also, I'm not sure if this is true but I feel like they reduced quest rep rewards for certain tasks.
All this combined with the increasing levels of P2W (or pay for easier progression, however you like to call it) such as them adding MTX and then Unheard Edition are really discouraging me from continuing to play this game at all, what's the point of playing if I'm already struggling to keep up with the ever-increasing grind, knowing that people with deep pockets will have it easier.
It's a shame, I really like this game, I've played it for like 5 wipes, there's nothing that can really replace it, but I really can't deal with the aforementioned shit anymore, ever since I started playing I never skipped a wipe, but I feel like the next wipe will be definitely be the first one I skip, in fact I doubt I'll return to the game at all.
I think BSG sometimes mistakes progression for "grinding".
I also think that we expect too much in relation to time spent playing. Every wipe, we'll spend at least 200+ hours or whatever getting to max traders. 200 Hours is a LONG TIME for any game. We're so conditioned into thinking that a game needs to provide thousands of hours of content and enjoyment, and if we get bored after that... Its the games fault.
We need to reel in expectations and understand that games have a shelf life and enjoyment CAN end after time. Its no one's fault. Just how things are.
I feel if they made it less grindy, then the good players would just be more stacked and the bad players would have nothing. It would change nothing, but make everyone annoyed and result in the game being less fun.
Actually agree. And no one wants NO challenges, right? Thats why we play. To progress and improve. Without it, the game is nothing.
thats why i quit the game, its too much of a grind its just nah, i'll comeback until like no wipe servers come
That's totally fair. How many wipes have you played so far?
When I take a little break, I'm always excited to get back into it for the wipe.
@@HayzStreams its like my 7th wipe, my overall problem is just, i love tarkov absolutely much, but i cant grind every time, i dont have that much time, tarkov is like a second job, so much time consuming, ik it sounds like bitching but thats life.
ok so here is the truth
first I used to have a lot of time on my hand I have over 8k hours playing over 8h a day , then i changed jobs and barely had time to play 1h a day maybe each 2 days
from this perspective I can tell you this.
this game is grindy , let me explain
first 200h of any wipe till this last wipe I could be 45 knowing all the task by heart and how to do them with effacing methods
then the game start to get boring and more about the pvp to have fun
there is nothing more to do after max traders and 50mil in the first 200/250 hours
now the question , can everyone be 45 and have 50mil in 200h which is around 3h a day for 2 month , the answer is no , not everyone is a walking wiki for the game
which puts this game in 2 stats , 1 is the experienced player who can do that and 2 the casual who dont have time / dont know the game in-depth
what dose that mean , it mean that casual player will have to spend more time doing basic things in order to catch up to a person who knows a lot more
sure its a normal thing ofc
but then as you said you can simply take a chance and go vs 2 player and win and take their gear but that's up to chance / luck / situation / how good is your play style etc
the issue is not the better ammo or better gear or even play style
a person who grind in tarkov has the benefit of skills . better endurance , carry more stuff , run faster , take more hits without bleeding
the game rewards you the more you play , the more you play the stronger you become , almost to a point where its a disadvantage, also a casual player who have 3mil level 22 mid wipe , will not be able to afford a full kit at his level when the prices of things and the availability of it from traders is very limited to them .
if you grind and get those skills and traders up you get , cheaper gun mods , cheaper meds , better armors , better ammo , etc
while a lvl 22 for example have to relay on the fle market and be under the high prices ,as i said the game rewards you the more you play it , knowlage wise and skills wise , casual play will enjoy the game but they will not get the full tarkov experience if they dont grind
i think the crafting times should be lowered and recipes should be tweaked. lot of the quests are just tedious as well. and i want m80 to get back to peacekeeper 3 or 2 whatever the hell it used to be. also those russian fucks nerfed the hell outta the m4 because they know a m4's recoil is significantly easier to control compared to an ak.
I agree with some of the crafting times, for sure.