Stephen A. & JJ Redick DEBATE if Nikola Jokic is the BEST big man in NBA history | First Take
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 พ.ค. 2024
- On First Take, Stephen A. Smith, JJ Redick and Chris “Mad Dog” Russo talk through the Denver Nuggets winning their first NBA Title in franchise history.
0:00 Most impressive part of the Nuggets’ title run
2:00 JJ credits the Nuggets’ patience
4:45 Mad Dog’s comments on Nikola Jokic
7:00 Is Jokic the most skilled big man in NBA history?
9:00 JJ’s coming in hot!
#ESPN #FirstTake #StephenA
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I love Mad Dog 😂😂 Dude literally just gets on this show to randomly talk about an old Celtics team that no one remembers.
The "you're a good little host" was gold, never seen Steven A genuine laugh before.
Jokic isn’t a top 5 center
He’s so wrong lol
This years Nuggets team would destroy any old team like that.. ridiculous
@@RetroNBA42you’re a joke 😆
"Did you see Larry Bird"? 😂
JJ is probably the best thing to come out of hosts these recent years.. he isn't afraid of calling out people and saying things straight to their faces.
but he said that shaq is not more dominat than jokic lol
shaq was physically dominant but if you actually watch basketball, you'd understand how dominant jokic is in terms of being impossible to gameplan against.
try to turn him into a scorer? he is a 3 lvl scorer and has one of the best finishing touches in NBA history
double him constantly? he's one of the best passers ever, and not just for a big man
you couldnt guard shaq, but you could make the lakers sweat by running hack a shaq - which resulted in losses to the spurs
@@ziginaigra Shaq don't have the same skills as Jokic give me a break lmfao, you can't compare him to Jokic, Jokic make 3s, 2s and on the post. That's without mentioning the rebounds, assists and he is 7ft tall (same as shaq)
It's cool when JJ I does it but its a turn off when Perk does it. Wow
@@Tb-tl4ni Perks is a racist and xenophobic, he doesn't deserve respect or his opinion being heard
I was waiting for Mad Dog to mention a team from the Stone Age and he didn’t disappoint 😂
86' is not Stone Age. Come on now 😂😂 You make me feel old 😅😅
86 is definitely not stone age lol
Not even gonna lie as soon as he started talking about the 86 Celtics I turned the video off lol
I haven’t watched First Take in a long time. Are they just trying to create a new Skip Bayless with this guy?
@@AmericanJohnGrassfacts😊
You can see the pain Stephen A is pushing through having to talk about the Nuggets for minutes upon minutes 😂
Bruh what lol you goofy
I like the fact that JJ actually challenges Stephen A. you can even see mad dog smiling🤣
Mostly because Steven and Kendrick were the only harshest critics out there for him. Now that Jokic is hot they are backpedaling. JJ is like "talk that talk like you did before!"
Stephen looking down says everything 💯
JJ does too much at times
@@JesseWhiteman117 9😅
This is the dynamic trio cause they check and balance each other.
JJ is the only guy with a spine and integrity and bravery to consider facts and speak up. Never change, JJ.
Facts 💯
He's great in defending and validating great players in the modern generation but I wish he wasn't so dismissive of the older generation. It's his biggest flaw as an analyst being a tad bit biased towards the newer generation.
@@imfinishedgrinding638 Agreed.
@@imfinishedgrinding638It’s bc JJ experienced the NBA evolving in real time while he was in the league. So he’s knows for a FACT the older gen doesnt compare to the newer gen. I feel like he articulates this way bc Stephen A is more firm on his beliefs, so he has to stand firm on what he knows.
@@yurrgee Yes Jokic, Embiid, and KAT, and these No heart no defense offensive rules players are way more in shape and definitely ardent fat and more skilled than Wilt, Shaq, Kareem. 🤡
Congrats to Nuggets, and big respect to JJ. That's how you talk: confident, direct and with argument.
It’s embarrassing to have these two dinosaurs alongside JJ. Stephen A blathers on about preferring Shaq to Jokíc and Russo harps on the ‘86 Celtics.
Mad Dog had me laughing out loud when he called Stephen A "a good little host."
To watch JJ swiping the floor with Stephen A. is such a joyful thing.
Around the 10:00 mark SAS bailed out Reddick from a black/white thing, because there are folk that can handle that heat but he ain't one.
Facts most wouldn't be able to handle the nuances
@@meuniversity8681 What black/white thing??? Lol. Stop making stuff up.
JJ is a yes man.. He has horrible takes.
The disrespect Hakeem Olajuwon gets from ESPN getting ranked below a guy who won his 2 rings by joining a superteam is a travesty. Dream played defense that KD could only dream about.
Agreed
KD played offense only Hakeem could dream about.
@@dotenksHakeem better winner and leader than KD and Hakeem offence better than KD defence and Hakeem didn’t have to join superteam to win so don’t be a delusional KD sexual sucker a**hole
@@dotenks hakeem was very skilled on offense his post work easily better than kd
Agree, and how about the disrespect of Shaq?! 4 rings and easily the most dominate player ever. At least SAS mentioned him.
I actually am enjoying this panel mix. Absurd takes and factual takes all in one! Plus it makes SAS challenged, which is a nice thing to see.
Absolutely ONE of the best. Hes in the conversation of top 5 center of all time. If he wins another chip and MVP, its not a conversation if he is a top 5 center or not,, the conversation shifts to what spot in the top 5 hes in
Kendrick Perkins owes Jokic a public apology
Tell the truth and shame the devil you are certainly right
For what his opinion?
And his job. Went full on racist and nothing happened. If Perkins was white he'd never work again, fact
AMEN BROTHER. AND NICK WRONG. But they have a long list of people who needs to apologize.
@@outtabad yep, it was a racist opinion. Cope heavily
JJ's "aesthetics vs. effectiveness" is spot on about dominant big-man comparisons. Joker's 5+ tool effectiveness is probably one of one historically.
Stephen A said he wouldn’t refute it because of the stats but he prefers Shaq. I don’t know why JJ gets emotional
@@abdullahihassan7344 it's the current players are better argument from Reddick
the 86 Celtics are a random team huh?
@@ricardolozano5356 It randomly came out of his mouth. No one was talking about that celtics team in this context. He just randomly brought that up.
That’s why Shaq loves Jokic so much. There’s been great centers in the league since Shaq’s prime but none since that were *uniquely* great and dominant until The Joker. Shaq was a one of one in his own way and now Joker is one of one in his own, new way and Shaq recognizes that. You celebrate both of you love basketball.
Really great points from Redick. Love his takes and analysis.
There's such a deep despair in JJ's eyes by the end of this clip. The man wants to talk basketball on the biggest stage... and this is what he has to put up with.
In an era where superstars on teams play "my turn, your turn"...this Nuggets team is a breath of fresh air. The unselfishness of their whole team should be applauded. Especially since their superstar Jokic has a mindset that's based on making the guys around him better and always feeding the ball to the right man. Jokic is the epitome of a team captain. I see more championships in the future for this team.
Lol rightttttt..... their organizations DID THEIR JOB. Ha its funny how the Bucks didn't win until HIS ORGANIZATION made a huge trade for Holiday giving Giannis MULTIPLE All Def defenders plus an All Star closer in Middleton.
Funny how the Nuggets got swept in the 2nd rd & got bounced in the 1st rd 1-4 with Murray out the last 2 playoffs winning 1 rd going 5-10 (even with Jokic winning MVP)..... yet the last 2 he's played in they made the WCFs & just won it all winning 6 rbs going 25-14. Lol Murray just almost avgd a 20 pt triple double in the Finals 😂. Also Gordon's in his prime & MPJ is about to start his.
Lebrons cavs for 7 years drafted guys like Luke Jackson/Shannon Brown/Boobie Gibson/JJ Hickson/etc..... his BEST TEAMMATE his last playoff series before leaving (after giving them MULTIPLE contracts to build around him) was 37 year old fat Shaq struggling to avg 11/5 in the playoffs lol. They lost Boozer Lebrons 2nd season from low balling him.
Just stop 🤦🏼♂️😂.
Bro we already had that in golden state stop repeating what you heard
@@RainbowBandana We already had that in San Antonio.
@@jessekittrell2946, not exactly understanding your point here. Basketball is a 5-person team game, so everyone needs help. Jordan and Pippen didn't win without each other, Kobe never won without another dominant big - and LeBron needed another All-NBA caliber teammate. Nobody does it by themselves.
In my mind, the Nuggets are proof positive that the SuperTeam model is a complete fallacy.
JJ had his foot down on SaS and was slowly but surely putting more and more pressure until there was just no where to go. Watching that happen was so enjoyable.
*NOWHERE, not no where
@@only1adonis No, where?
So it's about proper grammar
@Nykaitcha 😂
@@only1adonisnow here
Yo mad dog drives me nuts sometimes, but he always seems to crack me up and redeem himself every segment. It’s tough being a mad dog fan 😂😂
Congratulations to the Denver Nuggets!! World Champions!! 🏆 Well-Done!!👏👏👏👏👏
Hit him with that “but you wanna change the conversation and make it about dominance” 😂😂
Stephen A looks exhausted seeing KD didn’t live up to his best player in the world expectations for another year.
KD is still the best player in the league
@@bryantbenson5338 🥱🥱🥱
@@bryantbenson5338nope
Stephan A has been working since Denver won. Before that even
He's been on that BS train since 2018/9 & only this month just got off it after seeing Giannis & Jokic win MVPs, FMVPs chips & in Giannis case DPOY ... He hates the idea of the best player in NBA being foreign
i love jj every face expression reaction on every statement
Hakeem Olajuwon is my pick for the greatest skilled Center of all time. He may be less effective as Jokic in terms of pure offense but defense is also a skill and Hakeem is one of the greatest at that too. Defense + Offense combined Hakeem is the most skilled no question.
4:20 the look on Stephen A and JJ’s face when Mad Dog brings up the ‘86 Celtics 😂
😂
😂😂😂
that team was a joke. I don't even know half of those guys and I don't care about them, most of them didn't know how to dribble, it's like me saying wilt would destroy jokic, who cares, dudes are already dead and players now are way more skilled. dumb dog is just an idiot.
@@nykaitcha Dawg completely crosses over the Double Yellow line whenever he talks anything outside of Baseball. He's on FT as a 'shock jock' because of his frantic gesticulating and over the top histrionics; the perfect foil for SAS and another nightmare for Ms. Qerim.
86 Celtics couldn't beat a G-league team today. Allen Iverson was 11 years old then so you know the crossover was in its infancy. The Euro step, the step back - not invented. Defensive rotation? Nope! They employed drop coverage outside the foul line. This was stone age hoops - great for then. Now? Not so much.
Jokic did it without having to run from team to team teaming up with every all-star to win.
Jokic and Giannis rings and Curry last season hit different. The champions the last 3 seasons didn’t have to handpick their teams.
True
Rings are rings. Jokic didn’t have to leave because his management did their jobs and put a good team and a good Coach around him
@@kingnovi9404bro no excuse. They did it the right way. Stop !!
@@461rodney y’all are so quick to throw out words and terms you don’t even know what they mean. What are you talking about no excuse what excuse did I make. I stated a fact rings are rings and Jokic didn’t have to leave because his ownership and gm did a good job of building a winning organization
@@461rodney They did it the "organic" way. There is no "right way" to win a chamionship.
Y’all all have to sit that was a freaking awesome game to watch I can only imagine being thrrr yo see it in person y’all are graleat too so keep being you bee the one
Love these 3.
Denver Nuggets are the legit “trust the process” team. They never gave up on their players or coaches!! A true family. Not like other organizations SMH…trading players and firing coaches left and right lol
Umm if you have Jokic, Murray, and MPJ, you don’t need to give up on them. They gave up on Gary Harris.
Bringing the sixers up for no reason
@@grapplerke Murray was afraid that after his injury, he was gone. Mike Malone was worried about his head coaching career at one point.
OP’s description is pretty spot-on.
so they trusted the process since their creation? They've changed their roster and coaches plenty of times. They just got lucky with Jokic, anyone on that team can be replaced, save Murray. Imagine trusting the process for 50+ years with nothing to show for it until the 50th year by luck, lmao. Yall need to stop with the nonesense
@@clarencedomond5837 This process is actually only 8 years old.
Jj Reddick is a breath of fresh air for this show.😎👍🏽
No he’s clueless
I'm excited for the next season to see how the other 29 teams will adjust to the defending champions.
Who knew Reddick was this smart? It’s like his been commentating his entire life. Great point about building slow and doing the rare thing of keeping a coach through more then a couple seasons even through the hard times.
"Stephen, I love ya! And you're a good little host!"
Mad Dog be having me dying! 😂😂😂
😂😂
replayed it like 5 times i was DYIING lmao gotta be the funniest mad dog moment ive seen he was hilarious whole segment tbh
Happy for Nuggets fans. what a season, what a team, great postseason run. Well deserved .
Jokic isn’t a top 5 center
at this point its obvious that JJ Reddick is looking for a reason to be upset. Get him off the show
@@RetroNBA42 Yea, probably won't even be in the league next season.
Always nice to see a small market team win. They earned the Chip.
I love that JJ brough that up: to be dominant doesn't necessarily mean to be dominant through physicality - you can be dominant through skills. Not even talking about passing or playmaking. Even in pure post-up game you can be dominant through skills and IQ. And it's clearly seen if you look at efficiency under the rim.
this is a great point. the value of timely reads and instincts are often get overshadowed by physicality. you see it especially so on defense with guys that were never the best athletes but still become completely disruptive.
this is also why jokic is one of the most difficult puzzles in the entire nba to solve. if he’s lights out hot on the floor he can already see a defenders eyes moving off the shooter to pinch him and it’s a wrap, easy 3.
But Jokic is a very physical player, he just doesn’t dunk the ball often. But all his shots are in the paint & restricted area
Most skilled has got to be Hakeem. He has post up, footwork, ball handling, defense, and what not gets enough mention is he was awesome at mid range.
Jokic has all of that + being one of the most skilled passers of all time. Most apg Hakeem ever reached in a season was 3.6, so no. Hakeem also wasn’t a 3 point threat, and also shot like 10% worse than Jokic at the free throw line
@@portlandgoose4727 Hakeem was much better on the defensive side though. I don’t think he’s better. But the defense isn’t close. Their offensive games are closer than their defensive. But Jokic still clears.
Yes, Hakeem was a much better defensive player, and the 3 point game wasn't nearly as relevant.
@@oldenyz3148 exactly the 80's and 90s was about post play. i dont think there was a better post up player than Hakeem.
Wilt had all of that while being a far better scorer, passer, rebounder and defender. He was averaging 3 to 4 times as many blocks while averaging twice as many points, twice as many rebounds and twice as many assists.
Congratulations to the Denver Nuggets for winning the NBA Championship.
I hope you emailed or mailed the team cus youtube comments hold no weight
@@0-2-1it's all good. I'll relay the message to the team 😎
congratulations to the idiots that voted for embid over Jokic for MVP.....🤮
What???? You mean these guys don't care what we think???? I bet a player with the initials KD would get upset with us
As a hoops fan i am so happy to see the Nuggets go all the way. These last few years, superteams and all this other BS, has taken away from the fact that this is a team sport and star-power alone cant win you a chip. JJ hit it on the head, Denver has the total package and did it the right way, because they were patient. I hope this become the blueprint for teams around the league. You dont need to tank and you dont need a superteam. Put together a team that compliments each other, add talent through the draft, make smart trades where it is needed and just compete.
It takes time, and even more importantly, patience. Not something that's spreading across the league lately. Sadly. But yeah, it's nice to see that the team, who actually did everything the right way, managed to win it all.
Superstars and superteams don't exist like debate shows con people into believing.
@@keithjoseph128 pls explain this bruh
Well tbh the first and the most recent warriors championships weren’t some typical super teams. It was All core drafted players that compliment each other with smart trades here and there and they stayed patient until the dynasty started.. even being a warriors fan I completely agree with you when it comes to the KD teams. When we won those rings it honestly didn’t feel that good. Didn’t really feel like anything was accomplished. Like a varsity team playing a JV tournament. Even the first and most recent parades showed how much more it meant to the fans too. Honestly I think the super team era has taken a step back these past few years because Lebron has gotten older. Normally he’s the one who creates a super team and another organization creates one to challenge him or vise versa..
@@ballertalk1458 what do I need to explain? You debate show clowns literally call guys stars and superstars who haven't even made an all-star team. You call teams superteams that have a seven man rotation. Seriously, you believe Joel Anthony and Mario Chalmers started on a superteam? You think guys who are a liability on defense are stars or superstars? I guess if you're talking about fame then yes, unfortunately that's not how that works.
The game has changed tremendously from when Wilt played to Kareem to Olajuwon to Duncan, Shaq to Jokic. The skill set needed to be great has changed and all of this has to be taken into account. The greatest athletic center and dominant big man I ever saw was Wilt Chamberlain…hands down.
Care to substantiate that with anything?
agreed! and to me the most skilled all around center i ever saw was hakeem the dream. but even wilt was more skilled than shaq, he didn't simply bully-ball his way to all his points, more than half his shots were that fadeaway bank shot or 5-8 foot finger roll. he knew his strength and physicality were beyond anyone else's, and he didn't use that to bully his opponents.
@@laz0rama Kareem better than Hakeem
y'all watched full games of Wilt playing?
@@johnsosa7727 kareem only got one ring being the best player on his team an got one move hakeem got multiple moves an 2 rings being the best player on hos team ill take hakeem
Happy for the Nuggets whats next JJ because I'm here for it 😂😂😂😂😂😂 continue to challenge Steven A and Mad Dog back to the future takes....😊
Can ya'll please let Jokic continue to grow and get better before we start these "best ever" debates geesh?!
Fatima exactly I mean c'mon he just won his first championship
Dude already has 2 mvps, 1 ring and a finals mvp. He's already with the greats when it comes to accolades. The man led the playoffs in assists, points and rebounds. The first to do that in history.
Jokic will be a Top 5 Center forsure when it’s all said and done. Has a very good chance of being in the Top 3
@@davidberger8420 Best of THIS era maybe, like Lebron. But EVER? (in my Dre 3000 voice: Ever-ever-ever -ever???) naaaaah. This is a three pointing shooting soft defense era. Picture Duncan, Shaq, Dream, Kareem checking Joker in the 90s. I agree they need to stop. Joker doesnt play defense.
@@malachithegreat3889 ah yes the typical "they're playing in a soft era now so we should undervalue what they've down". Absolute garbage take.
Mad Dogg calling Stephen A a "good little host" was too funny 😂
😂😂😂😂 yes it was funny
😂
I think the past 3 years, it shows that if you draft the right players and trust them, you dont pressure them to a point that they need to break the chemistry of the team and add a superstar hoping it would change the dynamics of the team. Yeah you might not get multiple championships but, eventually you will get there, JJ is right coach is a big portion of the success. If ever the celtics didnt fire udoka maybe they are in the finals. I just think that yeah superstars are great in your team but those drafted players and role players that's jusy waiting for big moments helps to win a championship
How many nationalities in Denver...USA Canada, Serbia, Slovenija Brazil,...this mixes can be crazy
Being drafted by Demver where he has to play & train at that atmosphere was the best thing possible for Jokic. U see his conditioning is so much better because of it...... hes sprinting past AD/Towns/Ayton/etc in the 4th quarters pushing the ball.
If i were Giannis/Embiid/etc id go train there.
He's the only one In the league that actually plays the center position so that's why he's shining so bright
trash take
Nuggets went 16-4 this years playoffs
Comparatively
2022 warriors 16-6
2021 Bucks 16-7
2020 Lakers 16-5
2019 Raptors 16-8
2018 Warriors 16-5
2017 warriors 16-1
This nuggets team was historically dominant
N they played the weakest team out of all them in the Finals
I mean, they had to play the Heat in the finals.
@@Mitch_Feralheat were the 1 seed last yr & a shot away from being in the finals lol. They also beat the 2 best teams record wise in the league🤷♂️& dont say Giannis was hurt. Dude played in 3 of those Ls
@@deebrown9263 And swept the lakers before playing them 😂😂
@@deebrown9263nah the raptors did.
Everybody keeps forgetting about Hakeem Olajuwon I feel that he is the most skilled big man that ever played
I know. imagine how unstoppable Olajuwon would be if he had a deadly 3-point shot and could pass like magic J too? That would be insane.
Oh wait. That’s jokic.
And that’s why jokic is better.
@@brockb4452 except olajuwon was a defensive monster, jokic can't guard a parked car.
@@joshuatreadwell5619jokic is better
@@brockb4452man shutup, it took joker 4 years to average 20 ppg. Hakeem was nba ready and dominant the minute he stepped on the court and was great for 7+ years, not just 3….jokic does this about 6 more years, then we can talk. But if it only takes 3 years of dominant play to be the best ____. in nba history, well then any nba star is the best_____ to ever play their position.
@@Wop06 your logic is flawed. If I ran faster than usaine bolt right now, would you tell me that I need to do it a few more years before you declare me the fastest man in the world? No.
You a good little host had me cracking up!!!!!
Jokic changes the way how a center can dominate the game.
I think that is where JJ is going.
by playing against Rudy gobert
@@ricardolozano5356 He can't control who they put on him can he? AD? Rui? Lebron? Bam? Love? Didn't matter!
1: Wilt Chamberlain
2: Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3: Bill Russell
4: Hakeem Olujwon
5: Shaquille O’Neil
6: Moses Malone
7: Nikola Jokic
8: David Robinson
9: George Mikan
10: Patrick Ewing
That looks accurate
@@rodneystevenson4057 Mikan is unrankable - what he did puts him top 5 but his era is so different that people cant do it. But at the same time he wasnt far removed time wise from Russel and likely would have dominated the 60's as well had he been in his prime
Bro this a good list but my number one would be Kareem just because of more Championships and mvps
How you put Wilt over Kareem, and then Jokic over Robinson, man, I do not know. Pick a lane.
Wilt at 1 is Brazy
How does this conversation ever begins to take place without the name Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon? He's easily the most skilled big man ever. He is one of only four players in NBA History to every record a quadruple double, and missed out on doing it twice by a single assist.
He’s easily one of the top 5 skilled centers of all time but not the most.
Hakeem did not lead the fast break, shoot 3s, or control a game simply by his ability to pass the ball. Jokic does all those things.
@@jameslee1062that cuz of how the game was played back then if he played nowadays he would be doing that shi
@@OMG-si3wnI mean woulda coulda shouda. Steph didn't wait for the game to change. He changed the game. So did Jordan and Dr J.
The fact that Hakeem, Shaq, David Robinson, Ewing, and others careers overlapped each other makes what's happening now a little overrated given the lack of elite bigs in the league. Ewing and Olajuwon's career's overlapped Moses Malone, Kareem, Sabonis, and Rober Parish. Shaq overlapped Alonzo Mourning, Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Sabonis, Yao Ming, Mutombo, and others. He doesn't have the elite competition, he's basically a man amongst boys. If he had the competition, he'd still get his but his numbers would not be as inflated. It's simply a lack of big man talent in this era and he's taking advantage over it much like Wilt, Bill Russell, and George Mikan did in their eras. Competition at your position should matter somewhat. Even just having bigs that can battle with him, put a body on him like Rick Smits, Antoine Carr, Kevin Willis, and others. The outcome is different. No doubt he still gets his but the overall impact he has on the game changes because of the competition, it is what it is. Giannis is a PF playing Center, AD, the same, and many others today. Having 7fters 240lbs and up battling against him night in and night out would make it much different.
@@jameslee1062 His numbers but I have to discount his competition, its the same reason many discount Russell. He's basically like WIlt playing against many who can't challenge him size wise. Even Shaq, as big and powerful as he was, had Centers his size and bigger playing against him far more frequently than Jokic and Embid experience today.
Madddd Dogggg is hilarious!!!!! That ending was GOLD
let's be Real in today's NBA Jokic is an All time great, because he's playing the way a Big suppose to play, the nba has allowed small ball to destroy the game, and now teams have to have a legitimate big man to even compete with Jokic and the Nuggets
This what I been saying yo!
totally agree, there hasn't been a big man dominating the league since Shaq so its nice to see the Bigs come back to the NBA
Technically he’s not playing how a big man suppose to play but I digress.
Yea but he’s definitely one of those “great” players that doesn’t translate. He’s dominating in a league with no centers. Joker been in the league for years. When Demarcus cousins AD and even Dwight Howard was better joker wasn’t even heard of
@Dj m Jokic was a second round pick. It took awhile before he even felt comfortable taking most of the shots for his team. He was always hyper efficient though.
JJ had Stephen A stuttering at the end bringing up the combined defensive awards of Jokic's opponents lol But I always enjoy it when Stephen A, JJ and Mad Dog are together. Stephen A is always gonna defend 90s era, JJ the modern era, and Mad Dog anything 80s and past 🤣
thing is u cant rly play real defense with this rules
@@ziginaigraadds za
Cause what are we talking about Rudy Gobert and glass bones Davis for like jokic had some crazy gauntlet to go thru lol
@@ziginaigra, then explain how the Nuggets held Miami to less than 100 points in 4/5 games. It wasn't until around 2001 that the NBA finally allowed zone defense - so don't tell me that defenders had it easier back in the 90s.
@@arcadion448 i meant on hand checking mostly+how they held them under 100 maybe bad fg%?
I love the background pics of the Joker with his son. What a picture of real joy! An important detail lost from this year's playoffs; the shot of the entire playoffs was the catch-and-shoot of Jimmy Butler to tie the Milwaukee Bucks with .2 seconds left. Without that shot, there's no Heat-Celtics or Heat-Nuggets.
Comparing Jokic to other big men is difficult, because he is nothing like a traditional big man. Dirk is the only other big man of the HoF caliber that even comes close to how Jokic plays the game. So yeah, if you ask someone who learned how a center was supposed to play the game before the concept of the shooting and now the passing big too became a thing if Jokic is the best "big man" then that person is probably going to struggle with an answer. The skill set of the traditional big man and today's big man is too different not to struggle with the comparison. If you think the skill set of a big man is supposed to be skills used to dominant "the paint" both offensively and defensively while controlling the boards, then maybe Jokic is not the "most skilled big man". Shaq may be more "skilled" when you think of the big man in the traditional sense. Personally, I think Hakeem Olajuwon is the most skilled big man in the traditional sense. It is probably more fair to say that Jokic is the most "well-rounded" or "offensively skilled" big man in history. I believe that is basically what Stephen A was trying to say when he talks about dominant. Physicality and aesthetics has a lot too do with that but I think the essence of what he means when says dominant is "dominating the paint" and low post play. Jokic's skill set is more akin to the traditional guard that it is the traditional center. He really is an anomaly.
Bro stop, u trying to over complicate it based on timelines isn’t needed, shaq was physically more dominant than every one else, yes he had skills don’t get me wrong but he dominated inside the paint with his body and didn’t nothing else really on offense, Jokic looks slow and old at times yet he averages thirty cause of his skill set, he can do legit everything on offense a lot of which shaq can’t dream of doing. And jokic still scores in the paint a lot as well
Dirk played nothing like Jokic. Dirk was a jump shooter, and thats it. He wasn't a great passer, and was a subpar rebounder for a 7 footer.
@@BrandonlLuster Dirk was just a bucket to be honest
@@BrandonlLuster "Comes close" is relative. I was hoping I wouldn't have to clarify what I meant by that. I did end the comment with the word anomaly after all. Fine. Relative to the other hall of fame big men... Dirk seems more similar to Jokic when compared to the rest of them.
It's actually easy to compare hit to other big men. They can't shoot the three and, in many cases, free throws well. Jokic shoots it better than guards. Yea, Jokic is way more skilled.
Also, the best comparison is Larry Bird. Bird started playing the 4, could shoot pass and rebound at a high clip. They even have similar shooting forms
Thank you JJ for bodying, sonning and letting SAS have it again. Beautiful, just beautiful to see and hear😂!
Jokic and Olajuwon are by far the two most skilled centers of all-time. Now if you're asking who is the best it's an entirely different question and Nikola will be playing at a very high level for at least another 7 years.
I put Hakeem in the same sentence with Jokic not because he was as skilled offensively. Jokic clearly is a significantly better passer and can score from every area on the floor. Defensively however Olajuwon was an absolute beast and could essentially guard all 5 positions. His ability to block shots and steal the ball were extraordinary as well.
The cool thing about Jokic is that he can do Everything and I mean Everything 😂 like when dude is shooting a 3, u expect it to go in more often than not and he has such a soft touch that everything he lob into the rim just seems to go in with a bounce here and there. That’s just crazy😂
@Shawn Chia He's also a much better athlete than he gets credit for. Being a great athlete isn't just about speed and quickness and Jokic has a very quick first step off the bounce anyway. What makes him so special are his hands, eye-hand coordination, and touch. Not to mention he's as fundamentally sound as you'll ever see, tremendous footwork. When was the last time you saw Jokic not catch the ball on a bad pass or at an awkward angle on a rebound? He never drops the rock. The greatness of any player imo has to do with his weaknesses. Jordan didn't have any and Mr.Jokic doesn't have any on the offense end. It's very rare when he doesn't make the right basketball play and that's a vitally important attribute and talent. Right now he stands totally alone in this category and he deserves incredibly high praise.
Hakeem played against better centers
@@ricardolozano5356 way better lol
@@liamg2271 yes but all this dosent mean that hakeem,wilt or shaq wouldnt kill him 1 on1😂
I'm loving this new era!
Always a pleasure watching JJ school SAS
If I ever wanted a team to win?It definitely was watching those Nuggets this post season!What a gift to watch this team.The camaraderie and sportsmanship is admirable.The skill of Joker blows my mind due to his effortless appearing style.Congratulations to those Nuggets!👏🏻👏🏻🏆
BROWNS MEXICANS NATIVE AMERICANS 12 tribes of Israel we are God chosen people the true Hebrew Israelites of the earth
Either option is better than Better than lebrick and curry two geriatrics who get D rides 24/7
@@jackh6106 Me!!
I don't care if he ever wins
I’m glad they brought up Shaq. The NBA has gotten rid of physicality. Players like Jokic got rag dolled by Shaq. There were three guys that look like jokic on every team, just to give shaq at least 18 fouls.
😂😂
For what it’s worth, having guys that can properly give it back to SAS, even if they are not always correct, is great to see. JJ provides the most sound logic in his arguments of the 3.
The game and rules have changed so significantly and the role of the C position has been the most affected. From rules on fouling, backdowns, zones, etc idk how anyone could compare em across eras.
Stfu nobody wanna hear that. Because I sounding like a hater.
Respect to SAS for making this show allowing people to call him out. Respect
As a die hard hoop fan, he’s definitely top Alpha center in modern history basketball, in total history he’s definitely top ten, if he can get one more chip I believe he’ll be in the top 5 due to his unique skills and bending center physics (dribbling and IQ as a point center).
I’m so happy that Denver has put that “scrub franchise” in the trash, Nuggets did something legendary mad respect and love from coach Malone to the last man on the bench. This team set the perfect standard on how to win a championship. 💯
how does he become a better player if his team wins more championships? either he's a top 5 center or not
Jokic averaged 30/14/7 in his first NBA finals. Shaq in his first finals in year 3 averaged 28/13/6. His first championship Shaq averaged 38/17/2. Kareem's first championship, 27/19/3. Hakeem's two championship finals he averaged a combined 30/10/5 going against Ewing and then Shaq. Let's pump the brakes on Best Big Man in NBA history talk.
Exactly
Lmao these mfs are crazy
All of those numbers sounds similar.
Man avged almost triple double during the playoffs and broke like 5 records
Jokic had best PER in history of the NBA in a single post season, let that sink in.
Much much love for jj ❤
Now it's my knicks turn congratulations Denver 🎊 good team
I love that Joker won & we have NEVER seen anything like him, but let’s give him time before we say that he the best big of all-time NOT SAYING he won’t be but let’s give ‘em time.
This team winning and building through the draft is a second example of this. The Bucks did the same thing. They build through the draft with Giannis and Middleton, and some role players, and then added the missing pieces. This seems pretty similar to that.
Middleton was drafted by the Pistons, after the year, he was then sent to their G league team. Milwaukee picked him up a year later.
@@shak8277 oh true. So this is different. I guess the only similarity is they allowed their team to build chemistry after various playoff runs.
You not gonna mention GSW? and Spurs before that? Despite Tim was already the biggest talent of his class draft.
Last three champs built within which is awesome
@@joeldrummer23 true, how could I forget that the Warrriors been done this, haha.
Hakeem Olajuwon did have that amazing 93-94 MVP season where he led his team in everything. And he had no other All-Stars on his team. It was his I'll do everything myself season.
Hakeem Olajuwon is still my pick for the greatest skilled Center of all time. He may be less effective as Jokic in terms of pure offense but defense is also a skill and Hakeem is one of the greatest at that too. Defense + Offense combined Hakeem is the most skilled no question.
Kind of like Jokic this season
@@portlandgoose4727 minus the defensive MVP
Talent on another level than any other Player in history.
*NEVER more skilled than Hakeem... The Dream just had a different role*
No big man did and it's really not even close.
Hakeem couldn’t run the fast break but I mostly agree with u
@@HR-ms6edyes he could before he made 30, when in his 20s he was running, most ppl seen hakeem in the mid 90s when he was older
@@HR-ms6ed *So sad that people have normalized seven footers trying to run the point... I had to eat my humble pie and give The Joker his propers but Hakeem would have made him look like all other opponents and the rest of the team would have slowed down the others... I just have to accept that the truth is often absent from writing history*
The dream wasn't passing & dribbling like the joker. Better all around player
I’m the biggest Jokic fan. There’s no way he is a top 5 big man of all time! Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Hakeem to name a few!
You are not a Jokic fan
You sound like Jokers 5th biggest hater.
He wont reach Kareem, Wilt, Russel or Shaq - but if he wins another MVP and championship it's fair to say he's above Hakeem. Also Moses Malone is the other one in the convo
Bro! Thank you. Are they drunk?
Exactly bro I hate when they do these thing to my favorite players
I wanna see how jokic look when playoff teams start grabbing bigger defensive centers to match up with jokic, he basically been playing against PFs while the other great centers were going against each other
I think that this was an absolute great season by the Nuggets but to rank them historically with some of the dynasty teams would be premature before seeing where they go from here.
As for Joker,I think this win last night puts him somewhere in the 5-8 range in the all time centers list. IMO,careerwise he's not on the level of Russell,Kareem,Shaq & Wilt,who I rank in that order from 1-4 but with his 2 MVPs/1 FMVP/1 Ring he definitely belongs somewhere in that next group with Hakeem,the Admiral,Moses,Mikan & Ewing.
Assuming his stats stay on the same career pace and even if he doesn't win another ring,I think he's locked himself into the top 10. Breaking my top 4,especially top 2, would be very tough but if Denver goes on a ring run in the near future and he keeps playing like he has he would deserve to move up that list.
He Will put some crazy records
Nuggets are refreshing. No trash or Draymond effect. All classy. Thank you
Y’all be killin me, Jokic wins one ring and all of a sudden he’s considered the best big man in history 😂😂 Then y’all say he’s the best passer in history. So he’s more dominant than Shaq and can pass better than Magic I think not!
That wasn't the actual question, the title is just clickbait-y, most skilled is very different from best. I don't think I've seen a single serious person say that Jokic is the best big man of all time.
it's ridiculous. I have never seen so many people try to crown a player as the GOAT of their position after their first title.
@@Jukeboxster he set records this entire post season. He had games that Wilt Chamberlain never even had. He also led the entire Playoffs in Points, Rebounds, and Assists. Don’t try to diminish Jokics greatness
The media is trying to scale him down because he went beyond expectations.
He's the best player to ever touch a basketball.
You just mad because he's white and Serbian.😂
Everytime Mad dog talks history and his Celtics and bird i start screaming at my phone 😂😂🤣😭🌝
Not sure if he’s the best but he’s definitely one of the best . He can back play with his back to the basket , facing the basket , but what really makes him great is his ability to facilitate the basket ball at the top of the key, a lot of bigs throughout history as well as modern bigs can’t do that
Being drafted by Demver where he has to play & train at that atmosphere was the best thing possible for Jokic. U see his conditioning is so much better because of it...... hes sprinting past AD/Towns/Ayton/etc in the 4th quarters pushing the ball. They are all gasping for air bent over & he's sprinting lol.
If i were Giannis/Embiid/etc id go train there.
@@jessekittrell2946 That is true , Miami was also a bad match up for Denver to , they didn’t have a big that could D up Joker , it’s only a few teams who have a big that could D him up …
@@joshuaanderson7690 Lakers does but they got swept so what are u saying?
the only reason he's defense is underrated is because he doesnt put up highlight blocks. Sure his defense is not all time but the offense that he has covers all that up. He can basically do anything, he doesnt need to shoot 30 times to put up his statline. He is the perfect counter to teams going small ball
@@primebee00 the lakers did have a big on Jokers level….. You only got about 5 guys in the league who can really d him up one on one ,
Giannius
EMID
Rudy Goldbert
Bam Adbigo
I think Kareem-Wilt-Russell-Hakeem-Shaq-Moses are probably still above.
But he’ll be top 5 when it’s all said and done.
Those guys aren't above him. He does more than any of them. Shaq was always overrated. I can't remember how many times the refs allowed him to get away with offensive fouls or dirty play. His entire game was five feet from the basket. He's not even in the discussion.
@@Zenigundam jokic is not in top 20 players of all time. Relax dummy, you probably some European being nationalistic. Or at least there are many of them
@@Zenigundam basketball ain't ur sport bruh,stop it
@@Zenigundam worst take in basketball history well done 👏🏽 👏🏽 come back when 🃏 got 4 chips and 3 finals mvps..
Yh, I was like why he ain’t mentioned Shaq above him.
JJ is a fresh of breath air to all sports media I always enjoy his takes
shaq accomplished more
@@ricardolozano5356 + he was unstoppable :)
FYI… when Hakeem Olajuwon retired, he was top 10 in 5 categories… steals (only center in that category), rebounds, blocks, scoring, and shooting percentage. His midrange shot was pure, and his post game was elite with elite footwork & a great touch around the rim. So nah… I won’t call Jokic the most skilled. I’d rank him #2 to Hakeem in that category tho.
Calm down everybody!!!When Giannis won a title,they said the same thing.If Murray stays healthy then we can talk.
Basketball is a team sport. Just talk to KD, Kyrie and Giannis.
No they didn't stop lying
Giannis is already an all time great dude, 2 MVPs, DPOY, FMVP and a championship as the best player on a team counts as a HOF resume. Same with Jokic
@@user-cs1pi8zg1nthey were saying he could be a top 5 player or be the goat, what are you talking about?
@@soooslaaal8204 his averages are good to
Soooo we just gonna forget how skilled Hakeem was offensively AND defensively
We in 2023 dude alot ppl most likely forgot 😂🤷🏽♂️
I love Hakeem and he's one of my favorite players of all time and his post game and defensive skills were both out of this world...but his shooting and passing weren't in the same stratosphere as Jokic. Hakeem is a career 20% from 3 and 2.5 assists per game. The ability to shoot the ball from anywhere on the floor trumps any other skill, and then you add the ability to pass the ball and run an offense like Magic Johnson or Chris Paul? I'm not saying Jokic is definitively more skilled than Hakeem (unless we're talking purely offense, then it's not even close), but Jokic is definitely up there.
Hakeem had the most games ever with at least 5 in every catergory. He might not shoot as well from distance but he did it all!
Thank you!!@
Right they are on here buggin lol
no one is mentioning how much these guys showed up for the regular season as well. very little load management. Besides some injuries, these guys show up to play day in and day out in the regular season and showed up to the occasion in the playoffs as well.
It's hard to build with the draft u need luck,teams like denver and gsw they drafted all time great players like jokic and curry
I am very into the bizarre magic of these three being together.
even though im a lakers fan, I’m so impressed with the nuggets unit and so happy for them winning. happy for bball fans everywhere that a club that plays so well as a team won the chip. congrats 🎉 you guys deserved it. jokic is the real deal
Top 3 Centers of all time..
1. Hakeem The Dream
2. Shaq Diesel
3. Wilt The big dipper Chamberlain.
Kareem?
It's only other people who are making comparisons, because it's what analysts and fans do. Jokic himself is just playing each game his way, and letting the chips fall where they may historically. It's not going to hurt him if someone says he'll never be Kareem or Wilt.
Jokic, being the size he is with that Serbian strength, would have also dominated in a more physical league. But of course he doesn’t play that way because he would foul out every game. He’s already in foul trouble most of the time. You cannot tell me he wouldn’t bully everyone in the league if he was allowed to literally throw people out of his way.
Man I love mad dog. The history lessons are appreciated
"You're a good little host"🤣
Statistically Wilt Chamberlain not only average 50ppg a. Season and 22 rebounds a game but he also had a season he led the league in assist.
Yep, 8.6 assists per game in 1967-68 season. Also scored 24 and rebounded 24 (!!) that year.
Who cares he wouldn’t do that in the 80s and up
JJ has a great basketball mind. I enjoy watching his podcast and after watching, I feel like a more informed basketball fan.
No respect for him after his comments on Bob Cousy and that era of the NBA.
Exactly. This should prove that Boston shouldn't be panicking. Keep building the team around Tatum and Brown.
Nah, the Nuggets formula only works if you build with players that complement each other perfectly. I don't believe that Tatum and Brown are that, they are both iso heavy offensive players without playmaking skills that don't make each other better. Trade Brown for complementary pieces around Tatum
@Soundtallica in Chains heck no. Dude, they have been to the conference finals the last 4 years. How does that not work?
Yes
They should brought up perk, I was wondering what he gonna say now 😂
Perks: "Jokic is ring padding now, he's gone too far!!😡🤬"