i have a NA exige with a torque 200 tune (195whp) and a 1.8 lsd, which makes a big difference coming out of tight corners. lmk when youre down in LA next time!
I have a 2004 S2 elise with a Honda EP3 K20 swap. It originally had a Rover 1.8 112hp and now has 220hp approximately. Great combo especially when the vtec cuts in as it sounds fab and gives me a buz each time. Would definitely recommend it.
Both can be taken to the next level with well chosen mods. On my 4C you can go with a ECU upgrade, an alignment for a bit more negative camber, 0 front toe instead of toe out, and throw the stock PZeros away and get some proper tires. Also keep the tire pressure down so max cold temp is 29 R 26 F as stated on the manufacturers owners manual and door sticker. Lots of people put too much air pressure in the 4C tires....it is very sensitive to tire pressure and too much will give you a much worse handling car. Some put in the AWblocks to get a bit more caster but with the other things above you won't need it. A MUCH better choice is to replace the rear lower suspension triangles rubber bushings with uniballs from AW or GMS. This is the hot upgrade for a 4C and transforms it. I have a friend and neighbor who has the identical twin of my 2015 4C LE. He has the same mods. Previously he had an Exige (4 cylinder Toyota boosted motor) with all the mods, he also had a couple of Caterhams, 427 Cobra clone, and a Porsche 935 clone track car. He says the 4C would run circles around his old Lotus. The ALFA is a more complete package....Lotus comes across as more of a kit car but is still a very cool car. By the way....that hard brake pedal was intentional...rather than a progressive movement typical of most cars, ALFA elected to have a hard pedal that doesn't give more braking by more travel of the brake pedal, instead it is stronger the harder you push against that hard pedal. That is how a proper race car is setup. I have never owned a car that couldn't be made much better with some mods. Both cars are no different. Both have a nice aftermarket support for these mods. Both cars, Elise and 4C and also the Exige sadly will be the last of their type most likely. If you haven't driven either you owe yourself a special treat. Both are completely impractical cars....except for putting one hell of a smile on your face every time you drive them.
Good video. Having owned 4 different Elises from standard S1’s through 200hp racing S1’s 700kg all the way to a 400hp S2, they are great cars ... BUT I recently bought an Alfa 4C launch edition and it is fantastic. 2 things: 1) Without the addition of front Suspension Blocks from people like AlfaWorks etc the steering is nervous and diabolical. With them, the car is transformed - it is a Must. 2) Watching that particular 4C out of corners, I honestly believe the Bilstein setup in that car isn’t okay. I don’t know if it’s spring rates or incorrect rake (critical in a mid engine car) or perhaps ride height set too low - for example less than 12mm in an Elise will create significant handling issues ... or just simply incorrect bump/rebound settings but something isn’t right. I would go and borrow a launch edition 4C with the front suspension blocks and drive that 😊 They are both fantastic cars but unfortunate the 4C you drove didn’t represent the true car. Great review content and production quality - well done.
The 4C is mine. I have the blocks, but haven't installed them yet. Personally, I like how shouty and crazy the steering wheel is, but it can definitely something to get used to. The shocks were set at a relatively low setting and the car was lowered about 12mm. After some research, it seems that the shaking feeling on corner exit might be the E Q2 system activation (Electronic limited slip), it is still active in the race mode. It's annoying that it can't be disables easily.... hmm, maybe there is a fuse that I can pull to turn it off....
@@oyurcha1 Definitely install the blocks, honestly you will still find the steering direct, it just fixes the base camber/caster that is so bad out of the factory that it makes the steering feel nervous and untrustworthy - the difference is transformational. You will need some shims as well to do some final adjustments to get the geo right. Yep with lowering the car, at some point the geo goes below the roll centres and that cause unstable and erratic behaviour. Can you easily raise it a bit and also make sure you have some rake ie rear about 10mm higher than the front ? Yes you are correct that in race mode it does not turn everything off. I have tested this on a track and skid pan - it turns if off a lot more and let’s you slide the car a fair bit, but it will try and catch it at the last minute. My suggestion would be to get the ride height back up a bit, ensure you have some rake and start with the bilsteins quite soft - you need to try find a test track or big open area like an auto cross car park to test in so that you can then try a few different settings - certainly too stiff either front or rear is going to be very unstable as it is a stiff chassis with an engine behind you so managing weight transfer is critical. Hope that helps and enjoy your 4C 😊
@@smetlitzky Thanks for the feedback! I'll try to see if there is an easy way to disable the E-LSD first and see if the shaking goes away. If it doesn't, then I'll be doing exactly what you've mentioned!
Mr Smetlitzky I too own a 4C and you are absolutely correct, your point 2 is exactly what I was thinking watching this review. This does not look or sound like my car when coming out of turns at speed. I have the Alfa Works stage 2 tune and it is very rewarding I think based on your recommendation I need the blocks as you call them, I like the car very very much but maybe more with the blocks??? Thank you Dr Smetlitzky Cheers
@@roytrevisan3491 I have a stock 4C and she is on rails and my tires are not even the best. I can go into corners hot and drift just from g force and then slam the brakes and I even can yank the wheel AND pump the gas at the same time and still she stays in control. Yes, that will make her slide but ONLY if I WANT her to. If I don't, the second she starts the slide, I just lift off the throttle a bit and it's like nothing happened.
This review is what I try to find on the TH-cam! Not someone driving the car and spending 3/4 time talking specs that everyone can find online. The insight about the steering, the engine and the chassis is all based on your driving which is really helpful!
I’ve owned an ‘05 Elise and a ‘15 4C Spider. Your assessment is dead on- the Elise is about as good as it gets for driving purity and predicability. The 4C is gorgeous and fun, but at higher speeds on a good back road, I could never trust it- understeer into a curve under throttle can quickly turn to oversteer after a lift and the steering did not deliver what I expected from a manual unit. My 4C did not hop as yours did- I had the factory optional track suspension. Great review- Earned my subscription.
Great video...I've owned both and they are amazing in their own right. I just sold my 4C Launch Edition a few weeks ago. My 06' Elise was supercharged and intercooled with a Vision Function kit, but I think I still preferred the 4C overall...at least on the streets. The Alfa has a higher level of build quality and refinement, especially on the interior. Sitting in the carbon fiber monocoque is a unique experience to say the least. It's also very quick right out of the box and a simple ECU tune takes it to another level. Even though it's a lightweight, It's a very solid feeling car...more so than the Elise IMO. The steering takes some getting used to but a lot of it can be cured with a better alignment and/or the Alfa Works suspension blocks. The steering and the suspension geometry is better on the Elise. For a dedicated track car I'd have to pick the Lotus. But if most of your driving is on the street or twisty backroads, the Alfa is my first choice. The fun factor and exotic looks are through the roof on the Alfa. Not to mention I kept the 4C for 2 years and sold it for $4k more than I paid. Get one while you can...I do think 4C prices are going to continue climbing and I'll probably end up regretting selling the LE.
@@SaenzFonsi I sold the Lotus to get a 997 CS and I sold the Alfa to put down some money on a house. I usually only keep a car for 2-3 years and then sell it to try something different.
Im almost 40 and creature comforts still mean very little to me, I'd take the elise. Its lighter NA motor and manual it will never be boring. I also prefer the looks of the elise to the alfa.
I am a pretty good power shifter but I could never do on a manual what a DDTC can do with a computer timed actuator, DAMN! those shifts are really awesome!
Elise owner here. Great video. Agree with everything you say about the Elise. Had some fast laps with a quick driver in a 4C at Willow last year. Felt so hooked up and so quick. But I think the really outstanding Alfa in its class is the Giulia. I have a Ti Sport and the steering/handling/chassis balance is so so good.
I own an Elise and an Evora but I’ve had an itch that’s developing for a Giulia. I can’t see affording a Quadrifoglio at the moment so I would ask you about the Ti ?
@@deviklovecraft3835 the steering is so good - it turns in so quickly, and the chassis is so well balanced, very neutral. It’s a pleasure to drive. It also looks great, inside and out. It’s also comfortable and practical. And mine’s been very reliable. Back-up camera was replaced under warranty and that’s it after two years and 20k miles. Only negative is the engine - lots of power and torque (it’s a fast car), but like a lot of modern turbo motors, it doesn’t sound very good and doesn’t rev very high. Nothing like the old Giulia’s twin cam.
Alfa price is growing up 800 euro per month. In one year my car price was growing of 20k euro. 2500 cara are circulating (non more production) so it is a bargain. You are right about that is not perfect refine. All the owners have modified camber and custer an me I put Ohnlis suspensions. This 4C for me is the top make a smile on my face every time. It is not an easy car at all but this is for me a compliments. Today the majority of cars are more similar to a sofa than a real car
I think that's in Europe.......in the States it's sort of bouncing around in the US$40-60k area, very inconsistent because the market is not steady and not a lot of people really knew about the 4C.
@@wimprezax I have a 4C in California, but this picture from Hong Kong best sums up the 4C and most Italian cars. The GT4 driver can't help but look and admire: www.flickr.com/photos/darylchapman/24614683070
@@wimprezax I have been looking for one, at the right price and year and finally got one, but if my wife hadn't jump on it, I would have lost it. Glad I got one for sure.
TEs look so great on that elise! I’d like to add def choose the lotus if you want to modify the car/track it. Such a huge aftermarket/support for all 3 gens of the Elise/exige. And if you get bored/blow the stock Toyota motor or get cam wipe you can swap in a K20 or 24 Honda motor in like I did which just makes the power/torque curve EVEN better and even more reliable !
Great point about the Elise/Exige being far better supported as a track platform. I see them at track days all the time, whereas I've only seen 1 or 2 Alfas. K swapped Lotus is #1 on my want-to-drive list.
@@Zygrene There was a limited edition of Elise or Exige that was using a K20 engine produced by a private tuner ? Btw better the 4C to be compared to the Elise 260 cup. Even the old version was horribly fast with the supercharged 2zz.
That advantage that you quoted about the lotus over the alfa does not exist here in italy :P XD many tuning garages have great knowledge about the 4C and, like scara73, romeo ferraris, top tuning treviso and so many more
@@alessandrogallo7969 Depends on the location, but e.g. the Elise's brake system is the same since 1996, suspension unchanged since 2004, etc. So there are more parts available over the time, while for the Alfa the market is still quite "small" in comparison. But I think the Alfa is more capable of daily driving, therefore fewer people use them on the track and more for journeys and daily driving.
The 4C you drove needed Jamie's Blocks up front to provide more camber, and uniball bushings on the lower rear a-arms to eliminate clunking and moving around resulting from rubber bushing deflection. A solid main motor mount would have prevented the driveline from swinging around in tight maneuvers - provides much more control of the Alfa's quite tall and top-heavy DOHC motor. Finally, a Eurocompulsion Stage II or Stage III tune completely changes the driving character of the car - so much speed in every gear, so much more throttle response, more responsive brake pedal, quicker shifts. I developed my car all the way to Stage III, including a larger intercooler and full intake and exhaust including 200 cell cat (no internal engine work). 360 hp on pump premium blended with race fuel. Beat a Ferrarri 458 from a stoplight once. Total cost of all upgrades: $13,000. I lap every Elise I race, and most Exiges (though they are great cars - I owned one with 343 hp). Go to the AROC site to see my 4C build video (look for Bruce Kopitz in the title). Cheers!
Agree. You can mitigate most of the concerns with a minor bit of aftermarket effort. But I think as a review of what he had his hands on, spot on with accuracy. I don't push mine too hard, and its a blast of a toy--these reviews are normally dumb about how hard it is to steer in a parking lot. One of the better reviews for sure, good analysis.
YOO awesome video! The british racing elise is by far my favorite earth "spaceship" already looks so race spec inside, and on te's looks mad! Thank you for this review.
Good review. I have had 2 4C’s. One I put into a wall at Sebring Raceway. Fixed it and sold it. I really missed it, and bought another. There is just something about the way it moves in traffic; it’s so quick, agile and a blast to drive. And, indeed it is spooky over 7/10s. Fortunately I drive it in FL were the roads are flat and smooth. It’s a baby GT40 for a fraction of the price. Sketchy handling at the limit, but otherwise an incredible car.
I would get one myself but can only afford it by the skin of my teeth so I’ll stick with getting a Ducati monster. Same Italian thrills for less money.
It's funny how every review I see on this car does not sound like my car. My 4C is bone stock and it is on rails. I TRIED to get it out of control but it won't unless I really wanted it to. I feel confident hard braking in a fast turn and can even slam the gas while hot in a turn while yanking the wheel and never once feeling like I might lose control. It does what I tell it and nothing more. I've pushed her many times and never really got any surprises or felt any real fear. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the car is invincible but I know it's extremely capable. It's very predictable and responsive. If I push her too far, she does not punish me. Only issues would be if tires cold or road is wet & above 100MPH she feels floaty. NOT the car I'd want to be in, running from the cops on a less than perfect road with sweeper turns. In that situation I feel like if I hit a bump, the car will lose control. 50MPH and under the car feels unstoppable. If I were running from the cops in twisty roads (even with some bumps), THIS is the car I'd want to be in. I would feel confident braking hard and suddenly and taking turns with minimal breaking as well as swerving to avoid sudden obstacles.
If you think you are slamming on the brakes in a fast turn without any car - let alone a short wheelbase mid engined car - turning around on you then your opinion on the dynamics of a 4C is pretty worthless. No car does what you tell it, it does what it can, and if you tell it to do something it can't you end up off the road, I think you greatly overestimate your driving ability, maybe book a trackday or two.
@@ImBarryScottCSS So you think the fact that I have slammed on the brakes multiple times in turns that I take and had no issues means I don't about my car? How does that makes sense? I'm telling you what I've done with my own car and how it reacted, so that makes my statement fact. Do you think it's magic why it stays in control? You think maybe I'm just lucky but only in the 4C (because I have never driven a car that I can do that in)? So if I'm moving fast in a turn and yank on the wheel AND pump the gas at the same time and the car does not WANT to loose control, you think a track day would do what? I've tested the limits of my car's traction and found it VERY easy to control. What would a track day allow me to do? The same thing at twice the speed where I'd be putting myself in danger? The bottom line is I've found that if I want the car to go out of control I have to WANT to. Not saying it's hard, but I DO have to WANT to. For example, if I yanked wheel and instead of stomping the pedal briefly, I kept it down, I'm sure the car would spin out. In fact it starts to rotate when I push the pedal down, but I lift and she stops. Another factor is doing this is not challenging. It's not like I need lightning reflexes. 2400LBs and carbon fiber tub goes a long way and again, my tires are not even that good.
You are quite confused, I don’t even know where to start explaining. But yes, getting a basic driving dynamics school or going to a track with a coach for a day would be a good start.
Try to put skinnier less gripper tires. I have a gt86 with MP4 and it is pretty hard to get her bavkend to kick out due to the amount of grip. I really have to throw the car around a corner balls to the wall if I want to get her to do anything g crazy. When I put on a skinnier less grippy tire it did feel less planted and I felt the back end want come out a bit more
The Alfa is VERY pretty but I'd take the Elise every single time. Lotus and the Elise in particular wrote the book on lightweight sports cars and around a properly tight and twisty road or track, it will reward with better involvement and behaviour without fail.
I wouldn't mind test driving the Elise just to get a feel for how the car is, however, I own normally aspirated cars and have driven some in the past and I am not all that impressed. Plus, there is a lot one can do in boosted application. For example the turbo alone mechanically can be tampered with to give you more horse power.. The turbo alone can be replaced or hone out to get you better CFMs. anyway. so many options on what to play with next. Never gets old,
@@SaenzFonsi With the Elise, it's ALL about the chassis and the engine plays second fiddle in the mix. Besides, both the K-Series and Toyota engines Lotus used in the Elise are fantastically linear, smooth and rev happy engines... the paper stats are irrelevant when it comes to cars the handle like the Elise.
@@Nemoticon i guess, a more linear power response makes it for an easier to handle car on the track, and in Auto-crossing. Except, thar Elise owners not often seen in the Autocross clubs, sadly!
@@SaenzFonsi But a lot of Elise owners regularly blast the cars around circuits on the weekends and through the country side. I mean a lot of off-road capable cars are found in car parks, but many of them still have 4 wheel drive and locking diffs!!
One of the best back-to-back reviews! Thanks for doing this; it's great to see a high quality comparo that blends driving impressions with outside shots.
When the Elise first arrived in the U.S. in 2005, Road & Track rated it as the fastest car in the world on a curved course, beating out Ferrari and Porsche. They called it a 'go cart' on steroids.
Appreciate and liked the video. Love the cars, and am envious of the empty roads you took them down so quickly - looked like a lot of fun. Wee friendly tip on the sound. Broadcast audio is usually levelled around the -12db mark (unless you are running ads in the US circa 1990 where they crank it as loud as possible). Your voiceover is clipping.
6:58 I was a little confused from what I heard, but after looking at the official specs I got it. The US version of the 4C is 17 percent heavier than the European spec. So if you have the chance, definitely try the lighter one.
Heard the exact criticism from a car journalist who happens to own an Elise. He said the 4C steering is compromised under heavy braking and corners at high speeds. Best to drive under 80%. Heard there may be a fix for that, but who wants to pay $50K and fix something out of the gate. When this first hit the market, I chose a used Cayman instead. 4C does look good though.
Good to hear someone else shares my impressions. The 981 base Cayman I reviewed recently gave me much more confidence on the same road. Like, night and day difference. Much less "raw" than the Alfa though.
I'm going Elise by some margin. The 4C with its manual steering, ect. Should have gotten a manual to keep with the analogue theme. Missed opportunity in my opinion.
You can't drive the 4C with one hand, the wheel moves too much as it picks up everything from the road. Even with two hands it feels as if you are holding a bull by its horns, especially if the road is not very smooth/clean. At 9:04 you can hear this guy say "the steering wheel is fighting me", earlier he says the wheel doesn't inspire confidence. A common mod are in fact suspension blocks to reduce such nervousness www.alfa9supply.com/suspension/alfa-romeo-4c-suspension-blocks
Where are you seeing 4c in $35-40k range? $42500 is the cheapest currently listed and it has accident report. 4c retail is $45-55k and upwards $65k for close to new examples.
On the 4C if the handling feels like it's about to kill you, it probably needs the geo done with some suspension blocks. Completely transforms the car. Also sounded a bit odd on the fast exits. Suspect that's also a rear suspension issue. I ended up going 4C over an elise for the daily livability 👍
@Thor Odin son A standard 4c 1740cc engine produces more bhp per tone than the 1800 Elise..pointless talking about one off engines, there is a 700 bhp 4c hill climb car out there....
4C is heavier, has a worse chassis, worse steering, worse suspension and would get embarrassed around any circuit in the UK by a VX220 Turbo. That's before we even start on what Lotus you can buy for a comparable price to a 4C. You are talking V6 Exige money which will obliterate a 4C.
@@ImBarryScottCSS Sorry but that's just crap Auto Express did a track test between the supposedly best handling car, the Porsche Caymen, and a 4c ...Their lap limes were exactly the same...See it on TH-cam
Your thoughts on the 4C echo what I have heard others say and for that reason I think the 4C Spyder would be the better play. You could enjoy the sunshine and wind in that car while going at a more moderate pace and still have a really exciting machine that looks and sounds great. I'm seeing gently used Spyder's in the upper 40's to low 50's so the price premium would probably make that worth it.
Very nearly traded in an Integrale Evo2 (which I love) for a 4c. I don't buy new cars very often but I was very tempted with the 4c. Due to the Alfa dealership not interested I decided to keep the Integrale then bought a used Elise. I'm cool with that. Integrale is now worth twice the cost of a used 4c, Elise is N/A and cheap as chips to run. As time goes on I think the Elise looks better but still really like the 4c.
I agree 100% with you about the 4C not inspiring confidence to drive. I've owned my 2005 Elise for almost 5 years. The car is amazing to drive. Even pushing it to it's limits, I does exactly what you want it to without question. But last year for my birthday , my son rented a 4C for the day. When i pulled into the rental with the Elise. The owner of the Alfa asked me if I could give it a little workout and let him know what i thought about it. He put it in race mode and let me have at it. The alpha is really quick and the turbo lag is minimal but noticeable. The real test came from some twisty roads in the mountains. It didn't take long to get the Alfa to the edge to the point that the front end lost its grip. I don't know wether it was the tires or just the suspension itself. I was able to maintain control of the car but it left me great full to give the keys back to the owner. Iv'e pushed my Lotus to the edge many times and have never said to myself, I should not have tried to do that. That being said , the Alfa is a looker but it is a hand full to drive.....
the evora is an overlooked gem. i drove a first gen one. 280 horsepower means it's not a teleportation device, but you just enjoy every meter of a good road, and yet it's really useable. the rear "seats" are such a bonus cause you just have a spot to put your jacket or backpack inside the cabin, which is just a headache with a strict two seater. i'd love to have a go in a sport 380 or something like that
Like many have said there is something not right with the 4C suspension. I have one have tracked it and driven in a "spirited" fashion to use your term and never experienced the clunking you did. Also going to Michelin sport tire over Pirelli made a difference.
Elise is much better on the sort of roads we get in the UK. It's really easy to upset the steering in the 4c, it needs nice smooth tarmac where as the Elise just grips endlessly even on bumps and in the wet.
It’s not difficult at all to get over the door sill. You just have to get in totally different, with the hand supporting you. Strange nobody showed you before reviewing these. Totally agree on the steering qualities!
@Zygrene any idea where the owner sourced the front splitter that's fitted to that Elise? And yes, after 13 years of ownership I can't think of anything for the money that can compare to an Elise!
I have yet to drive a 4C but it's hard to beat a Lotus for joy/$ ratio, driving dynamics and predictability up to and past the limits, and reliability as a track machine. Neat to see the difference though; on paper the 4C is def faster but sounds like it takes some getting used to and perhaps some suspension tuning. Might not be a fair comparo too since the Lotus here is clearly well sorted out... oh and go team Voltex!
I'm honestly surprised that some are praising the elise a being a great track car. While cross shopping one, and owning a 2zz swapped mr2 prior, there are a lot of deficiencies in the drivetrain that have to be addressed before making elise a hardcore trackday car (diff, oil pump, brakes, control arms, shift linkage... among some). Once those things are addressed, sure, it would be a great track car, but the streetability is compromised and the total cost can surpass 50k$.
@@oyurcha1 fair point. It takes lots of upgrades to get one fully robust for routine abuse. I'm sure a MR2 or S2K or mx5 can be made do the job for a lot less. Still, I haven't found a more exciting car for even twice the price with a roof so here I am seven years on still pounding on the Lotus. And she just keeps on rattling and buzzing.
@footballcoreano I'd love to try one! I did drive the Giulia SV and that was very impressive for a sedan. I enjoy my Lotus but I'm open to other great sports cars. My current next possible car is the 718 Spyder. So far I love it.
Lots of people talk about how brilliant the Elise is and how much grip it has how balanced it is blah blah blah all true but when things go pear shaped - a corner that tightened up too much or a nice patch of diesel on the road that's when you'll wish the Elise had a limited slip diff. It makes a big difference in the MK1 Elise which had wider 185 front tyres as standard and could swap ends very quickly after wagging it's tail hard. US Federal Mk2 Elise had 175 tyres to give them more understear and less need for race driver reactions at the limit. I have a quaife torque biasing diff on my S1 and it's a huge improvement enabling you to put the power down pulling out of tight junctions without fear of the car swapping ends on you. If your the Stig or Tiff Nedell ignore this advice but if your not a driving god it's worth the expense.
And Exige S260 is my dream car (or one of the newer ones .. the sport or cup One.. they’ve made like 10 variations in the last few years with more Power And more power. But anyway.. any of them .. dream car. Did thst shifter kit fix Some of the vagueness that those Elise had from thst time period ?
Guys, calm down! :) They are both great cars, albeit somewhat different. Everyone will have an opinion on what car is best, but the only way to know is to own them both. BTW, it seems that the shaking of the suspension in the Alfa was due to the electronic LSD activation (E-Q2 system) exacerbated by more aggressive brake pads in the rear. (it repeatedly brakes the inside rear wheel to prevent wheelspin)
Seems like the 4C just needs some suspension tuning. They develop these cars on specific tires and Shocks/Spring rates. Corner balancing on a light car like this would also work wonders.
Those RRR’s really make the Elise stiffer and noisier than a dedicated street tire. You really need to shift at the limiter in the NA Elise to stay on cam which is annoying vs letting the chassis flow with a broader power band. The supercharged versions definitely help here but the engine/blower combo isn’t as smooth and is significantly noisier with more nvh.
Yup I've driven a supercharged 300hp Exige. The power was great but the deafening whine and NVH made it harder to enjoy the drive. NA Elise all the way.
@@Zygrene good to know. Been contemplating supercharging my elise for awhile. Seems like it would be better to just k24 swap it and shoot for 250-300 whp NA
4C is not really a "b" road scratchers (UK). Cambers are a problem, BUT You need to drive all types of roads, and of course there are differences. Sense of occasion in the 4C is immense. It's near to a 458, without anyone hating you. It has "character", but that's why you really end up loving it.
@@Zygrene That Toyota V6 will NEVER misfire on you though. Just make sure the clutch is in good shape and you should be good for a couple trouble-free years of ownership. It's a more barebones 911 with a japanese engine, I'd think that's right up your alley!
@@Zygrene and also do you remember the mesaure of tyre? Is it the original size? Because it is very difficult (in principal in the front axle) to find the tire with the original size. Obvously except of original Pirelli tyre, but in my opinion is a bad tyre!!!
@@michelebelcaro8318 get 17 / 18 inch wheels. it transforms the car completely. and yes the pirellis are absolute garbage. i‘m running yokohama a052 in 215/45 17 in the front and 245/40 18 at the back
@@South4153 I imagine, that by mounting a smaller size the attitude changes, a lot of people told me on track days!!! it's just that for aesthetic reasons I like 18/19 inc more and I only go to the track once a year. And Also in Italy, I have practically had the 4c stopped in the garage for two years because of Covid so for now there si not have a sense, for me, to buy a new rims with 17/18 inch
@Zygrene Good review and video. i have a 4C and must say i agree with the lack of confidence with steering when you're pushing above 8 tenths. Do you know if the 4C you tested had aftermarket suspension blocks added to cure some of the steering issues?
Thanks. It did not have aftermarket suspension blocks but the owner is looking into disabling the brake vectoring as that might the cause of vibration.
You should try a supercharged Elise. Lotus do and SC220 model which as it suggests has 220 bhp and the linear power of the supercharger. It’s the same engine with a supercharger added. It would be a better comparison engine wise to the Alfa.
@@chasinglimits And Lotus had "Seven" model in late 50s, and it was so ahead of its time, that you can still buy seven inspired car even today (Caterham). Checkmate! :-)
I drove my Elise from Dorset in the UK to Munich in Germany, only stopping for fuel... It was more comfortable than my BMW. Seriously. And I'm 6ft and 220lbs. No issues getting in and out either...
As a 370Z owner I'm very torn, because I want one of these or the other for my next sports car. I'm more partial to the 4C based simply on power and looks, but the fact that it doesn't have a manual transmission is criminal. The Lotus is the purer driver's car for sure, but it's gonna become very hard to find parts in another 5-10 years.
It may be something wrong with your friend car, I own a 2021 Italia edition with a lot of mods that makes 345 HP and does not do that when coming out of the turn and the steering does not fight me st all. I also own a Spider Veloce 1983 with Mods, a Milano 1987 with mods and I think they are awesome drivers,
Does anyone have a K swapped Elise or Exige? Can't think of a car I'd rather drive. Honda powa + Lotus chassis!
I want to say the dudes at track spec have some.
Does anyone want to give me a Elise chassis I can use to transplant my K24 frank? 😁
i have a NA exige with a torque 200 tune (195whp) and a 1.8 lsd, which makes a big difference coming out of tight corners. lmk when youre down in LA next time!
@@likethejetsons sounds like a blast! Can you shoot me a quick email to coordinate? zygrene@gmail.com
I have a 2004 S2 elise with a Honda EP3 K20 swap. It originally had a Rover 1.8 112hp and now has 220hp approximately. Great combo especially when the vtec cuts in as it sounds fab and gives me a buz each time. Would definitely recommend it.
Both can be taken to the next level with well chosen mods. On my 4C you can go with a ECU upgrade, an alignment for a bit more negative camber, 0 front toe instead of toe out, and throw the stock PZeros away and get some proper tires. Also keep the tire pressure down so max cold temp is 29 R 26 F as stated on the manufacturers owners manual and door sticker. Lots of people put too much air pressure in the 4C tires....it is very sensitive to tire pressure and too much will give you a much worse handling car. Some put in the AWblocks to get a bit more caster but with the other things above you won't need it. A MUCH better choice is to replace the rear lower suspension triangles rubber bushings with uniballs from AW or GMS. This is the hot upgrade for a 4C and transforms it. I have a friend and neighbor who has the identical twin of my 2015 4C LE. He has the same mods. Previously he had an Exige (4 cylinder Toyota boosted motor) with all the mods, he also had a couple of Caterhams, 427 Cobra clone, and a Porsche 935 clone track car. He says the 4C would run circles around his old Lotus. The ALFA is a more complete package....Lotus comes across as more of a kit car but is still a very cool car. By the way....that hard brake pedal was intentional...rather than a progressive movement typical of most cars, ALFA elected to have a hard pedal that doesn't give more braking by more travel of the brake pedal, instead it is stronger the harder you push against that hard pedal. That is how a proper race car is setup. I have never owned a car that couldn't be made much better with some mods. Both cars are no different. Both have a nice aftermarket support for these mods.
Both cars, Elise and 4C and also the Exige sadly will be the last of their type most likely. If you haven't driven either you owe yourself a special treat. Both are completely impractical cars....except for putting one hell of a smile on your face every time you drive them.
Good video. Having owned 4 different Elises from standard S1’s through 200hp racing S1’s 700kg all the way to a 400hp S2, they are great cars ... BUT I recently bought an Alfa 4C launch edition and it is fantastic. 2 things:
1) Without the addition of front Suspension Blocks from people like AlfaWorks etc the steering is nervous and diabolical. With them, the car is transformed - it is a Must.
2) Watching that particular 4C out of corners, I honestly believe the Bilstein setup in that car isn’t okay. I don’t know if it’s spring rates or incorrect rake (critical in a mid engine car) or perhaps ride height set too low - for example less than 12mm in an Elise will create significant handling issues ... or just simply incorrect bump/rebound settings but something isn’t right. I would go and borrow a launch edition 4C with the front suspension blocks and drive that 😊
They are both fantastic cars but unfortunate the 4C you drove didn’t represent the true car.
Great review content and production quality - well done.
The 4C is mine. I have the blocks, but haven't installed them yet. Personally, I like how shouty and crazy the steering wheel is, but it can definitely something to get used to. The shocks were set at a relatively low setting and the car was lowered about 12mm. After some research, it seems that the shaking feeling on corner exit might be the E Q2 system activation (Electronic limited slip), it is still active in the race mode. It's annoying that it can't be disables easily.... hmm, maybe there is a fuse that I can pull to turn it off....
@@oyurcha1 Definitely install the blocks, honestly you will still find the steering direct, it just fixes the base camber/caster that is so bad out of the factory that it makes the steering feel nervous and untrustworthy - the difference is transformational. You will need some shims as well to do some final adjustments to get the geo right. Yep with lowering the car, at some point the geo goes below the roll centres and that cause unstable and erratic behaviour. Can you easily raise it a bit and also make sure you have some rake ie rear about 10mm higher than the front ? Yes you are correct that in race mode it does not turn everything off. I have tested this on a track and skid pan - it turns if off a lot more and let’s you slide the car a fair bit, but it will try and catch it at the last minute.
My suggestion would be to get the ride height back up a bit, ensure you have some rake and start with the bilsteins quite soft - you need to try find a test track or big open area like an auto cross car park to test in so that you can then try a few different settings - certainly too stiff either front or rear is going to be very unstable as it is a stiff chassis with an engine behind you so managing weight transfer is critical. Hope that helps and enjoy your 4C 😊
@@smetlitzky Thanks for the feedback! I'll try to see if there is an easy way to disable the E-LSD first and see if the shaking goes away. If it doesn't, then I'll be doing exactly what you've mentioned!
Mr Smetlitzky I too own a 4C and you are absolutely correct, your point 2 is exactly what I was thinking watching this review. This does not look or sound like my car when coming out of turns at speed. I have the Alfa Works stage 2 tune and it is very rewarding I think based on your recommendation I need the blocks as you call them, I like the car very very much but maybe more with the blocks??? Thank you Dr Smetlitzky Cheers
@@roytrevisan3491 I have a stock 4C and she is on rails and my tires are not even the best. I can go into corners hot and drift just from g force and then slam the brakes and I even can yank the wheel AND pump the gas at the same time and still she stays in control. Yes, that will make her slide but ONLY if I WANT her to. If I don't, the second she starts the slide, I just lift off the throttle a bit and it's like nothing happened.
Its because your Alfa has Bilstein coil overs which is why it’s bouncing around at the back. Normally it doesn’t do that.
And people who think akrapovič is russian aren't real car guys at all...
@@facingworlds5405 slovene. Study guys
Lotus also use Bilstein coilovers as stock parts. Lotus are the best in the industry at suspension though.
Hey mate , long time no see , I can see u in everywhere 😆 can I add ur Facebook ?
@@d-n-a8119 r u talking to me? Too many people here
This review is what I try to find on the TH-cam! Not someone driving the car and spending 3/4 time talking specs that everyone can find online. The insight about the steering, the engine and the chassis is all based on your driving which is really helpful!
I’ve owned an ‘05 Elise and a ‘15 4C Spider. Your assessment is dead on- the Elise is about as good as it gets for driving purity and predicability. The 4C is gorgeous and fun, but at higher speeds on a good back road, I could never trust it- understeer into a curve under throttle can quickly turn to oversteer after a lift and the steering did not deliver what I expected from a manual unit. My 4C did not hop as yours did- I had the factory optional track suspension. Great review- Earned my subscription.
Great video...I've owned both and they are amazing in their own right. I just sold my 4C Launch Edition a few weeks ago. My 06' Elise was supercharged and intercooled with a Vision Function kit, but I think I still preferred the 4C overall...at least on the streets. The Alfa has a higher level of build quality and refinement, especially on the interior. Sitting in the carbon fiber monocoque is a unique experience to say the least. It's also very quick right out of the box and a simple ECU tune takes it to another level. Even though it's a lightweight, It's a very solid feeling car...more so than the Elise IMO. The steering takes some getting used to but a lot of it can be cured with a better alignment and/or the Alfa Works suspension blocks. The steering and the suspension geometry is better on the Elise. For a dedicated track car I'd have to pick the Lotus. But if most of your driving is on the street or twisty backroads, the Alfa is my first choice. The fun factor and exotic looks are through the roof on the Alfa. Not to mention I kept the 4C for 2 years and sold it for $4k more than I paid. Get one while you can...I do think 4C prices are going to continue climbing and I'll probably end up regretting selling the LE.
Did u buy your 4c brand new or second hand ?
@@d-n-a8119 I bought it pre-owned from an Alfa dealer in another state and had it shipped out to me. I was the 2nd owner of the car.
Hard to go wrong with either….Both will increase in value as these kinds analog cars will never be made again
If I may ask, why did you sell them?
@@SaenzFonsi I sold the Lotus to get a 997 CS and I sold the Alfa to put down some money on a house. I usually only keep a car for 2-3 years and then sell it to try something different.
Im almost 40 and creature comforts still mean very little to me, I'd take the elise. Its lighter NA motor and manual it will never be boring. I also prefer the looks of the elise to the alfa.
100% this Is the exact reason why buying a new FRS Is literally like flushing 26k down a toilet.
I am a pretty good power shifter but I could never do on a manual what a DDTC can do with a computer timed actuator, DAMN! those shifts are really awesome!
@@SaenzFonsi yes a computer is doing it so exciting….
Elise owner here. Great video. Agree with everything you say about the Elise. Had some fast laps with a quick driver in a 4C at Willow last year. Felt so hooked up and so quick. But I think the really outstanding Alfa in its class is the Giulia. I have a Ti Sport and the steering/handling/chassis balance is so so good.
I own an Elise and an Evora but I’ve had an itch that’s developing for a Giulia. I can’t see affording a Quadrifoglio at the moment so I would ask you about the Ti ?
@@deviklovecraft3835 the steering is so good - it turns in so quickly, and the chassis is so well balanced, very neutral. It’s a pleasure to drive. It also looks great, inside and out. It’s also comfortable and practical. And mine’s been very reliable. Back-up camera was replaced under warranty and that’s it after two years and 20k miles. Only negative is the engine - lots of power and torque (it’s a fast car), but like a lot of modern turbo motors, it doesn’t sound very good and doesn’t rev very high. Nothing like the old Giulia’s twin cam.
Alfa price is growing up 800 euro per month. In one year my car price was growing of 20k euro. 2500 cara are circulating (non more production) so it is a bargain. You are right about that is not perfect refine. All the owners have modified camber and custer an me I put Ohnlis suspensions. This 4C for me is the top make a smile on my face every time. It is not an easy car at all but this is for me a compliments. Today the majority of cars are more similar to a sofa than a real car
Shut up. Don’t hype it up. I need to get one before ppl realize how good of a car 4c is.
I think that's in Europe.......in the States it's sort of bouncing around in the US$40-60k area, very inconsistent because the market is not steady and not a lot of people really knew about the 4C.
@@wimprezax I have a 4C in California, but this picture from Hong Kong best sums up the 4C and most Italian cars. The GT4 driver can't help but look and admire: www.flickr.com/photos/darylchapman/24614683070
In Italiy 4c start at 60k euro
@@wimprezax I have been looking for one, at the right price and year and finally got one, but if my wife hadn't jump on it, I would have lost it. Glad I got one for sure.
TEs look so great on that elise! I’d like to add def choose the lotus if you want to modify the car/track it. Such a huge aftermarket/support for all 3 gens of the Elise/exige. And if you get bored/blow the stock Toyota motor or get cam wipe you can swap in a K20 or 24 Honda motor in like I did which just makes the power/torque curve EVEN better and even more reliable !
Great point about the Elise/Exige being far better supported as a track platform. I see them at track days all the time, whereas I've only seen 1 or 2 Alfas. K swapped Lotus is #1 on my want-to-drive list.
@@Zygrene There was a limited edition of Elise or Exige that was using a K20 engine produced by a private tuner ?
Btw better the 4C to be compared to the Elise 260 cup. Even the old version was horribly fast with the supercharged 2zz.
That advantage that you quoted about the lotus over the alfa does not exist here in italy :P XD
many tuning garages have great knowledge about the 4C and, like scara73, romeo ferraris, top tuning treviso and so many more
@@alessandrogallo7969 Depends on the location, but e.g. the Elise's brake system is the same since 1996, suspension unchanged since 2004, etc. So there are more parts available over the time, while for the Alfa the market is still quite "small" in comparison. But I think the Alfa is more capable of daily driving, therefore fewer people use them on the track and more for journeys and daily driving.
The 4C you drove needed Jamie's Blocks up front to provide more camber, and uniball bushings on the lower rear a-arms to eliminate clunking and moving around resulting from rubber bushing deflection. A solid main motor mount would have prevented the driveline from swinging around in tight maneuvers - provides much more control of the Alfa's quite tall and top-heavy DOHC motor. Finally, a Eurocompulsion Stage II or Stage III tune completely changes the driving character of the car - so much speed in every gear, so much more throttle response, more responsive brake pedal, quicker shifts. I developed my car all the way to Stage III, including a larger intercooler and full intake and exhaust including 200 cell cat (no internal engine work). 360 hp on pump premium blended with race fuel. Beat a Ferrarri 458 from a stoplight once. Total cost of all upgrades: $13,000. I lap every Elise I race, and most Exiges (though they are great cars - I owned one with 343 hp). Go to the AROC site to see my 4C build video (look for Bruce Kopitz in the title). Cheers!
Agree. You can mitigate most of the concerns with a minor bit of aftermarket effort. But I think as a review of what he had his hands on, spot on with accuracy. I don't push mine too hard, and its a blast of a toy--these reviews are normally dumb about how hard it is to steer in a parking lot. One of the better reviews for sure, good analysis.
4C best one for my tastes, even if the steering feeling could have better progression.
100% agree
It's much more than that tbh. The Elise is way more balanced all round
Manual > dct
Oui mais la boîte automatique est très mauvaise malheureusement
I would definitely go with the lotus. One of my all time dream cars.
why is it a dream car, you could have it by now its cheap
YOO awesome video! The british racing elise is by far my favorite earth "spaceship"
already looks so race spec inside, and on te's looks mad!
Thank you for this review.
British Racing Green + racecar mods = win
@@Zygrene just need a single yellow stripe on top , it will become aston martin valkyrie
Good review. I have had 2 4C’s. One I put into a wall at Sebring Raceway. Fixed it and sold it. I really missed it, and bought another. There is just something about the way it moves in traffic; it’s so quick, agile and a blast to drive. And, indeed it is spooky over 7/10s. Fortunately I drive it in FL were the roads are flat and smooth. It’s a baby GT40 for a fraction of the price. Sketchy handling at the limit, but otherwise an incredible car.
I would get one myself but can only afford it by the skin of my teeth so I’ll stick with getting a Ducati monster. Same Italian thrills for less money.
It's funny how every review I see on this car does not sound like my car. My 4C is bone stock and it is on rails. I TRIED to get it out of control but it won't unless I really wanted it to. I feel confident hard braking in a fast turn and can even slam the gas while hot in a turn while yanking the wheel and never once feeling like I might lose control. It does what I tell it and nothing more.
I've pushed her many times and never really got any surprises or felt any real fear. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the car is invincible but I know it's extremely capable. It's very predictable and responsive. If I push her too far, she does not punish me. Only issues would be if tires cold or road is wet & above 100MPH she feels floaty. NOT the car I'd want to be in, running from the cops on a less than perfect road with sweeper turns. In that situation I feel like if I hit a bump, the car will lose control. 50MPH and under the car feels unstoppable. If I were running from the cops in twisty roads (even with some bumps), THIS is the car I'd want to be in. I would feel confident braking hard and suddenly and taking turns with minimal breaking as well as swerving to avoid sudden obstacles.
If you think you are slamming on the brakes in a fast turn without any car - let alone a short wheelbase mid engined car - turning around on you then your opinion on the dynamics of a 4C is pretty worthless. No car does what you tell it, it does what it can, and if you tell it to do something it can't you end up off the road, I think you greatly overestimate your driving ability, maybe book a trackday or two.
@@ImBarryScottCSS So you think the fact that I have slammed on the brakes multiple times in turns that I take and had no issues means I don't about my car? How does that makes sense? I'm telling you what I've done with my own car and how it reacted, so that makes my statement fact. Do you think it's magic why it stays in control? You think maybe I'm just lucky but only in the 4C (because I have never driven a car that I can do that in)?
So if I'm moving fast in a turn and yank on the wheel AND pump the gas at the same time and the car does not WANT to loose control, you think a track day would do what?
I've tested the limits of my car's traction and found it VERY easy to control. What would a track day allow me to do? The same thing at twice the speed where I'd be putting myself in danger?
The bottom line is I've found that if I want the car to go out of control I have to WANT to. Not saying it's hard, but I DO have to WANT to. For example, if I yanked wheel and instead of stomping the pedal briefly, I kept it down, I'm sure the car would spin out. In fact it starts to rotate when I push the pedal down, but I lift and she stops. Another factor is doing this is not challenging. It's not like I need lightning reflexes. 2400LBs and carbon fiber tub goes a long way and again, my tires are not even that good.
You are quite confused, I don’t even know where to start explaining. But yes, getting a basic driving dynamics school or going to a track with a coach for a day would be a good start.
Try to put skinnier less gripper tires. I have a gt86 with MP4 and it is pretty hard to get her bavkend to kick out due to the amount of grip. I really have to throw the car around a corner balls to the wall if I want to get her to do anything g crazy. When I put on a skinnier less grippy tire it did feel less planted and I felt the back end want come out a bit more
Was the suspension fix with the blocks already done on your car ?
The Alfa is VERY pretty but I'd take the Elise every single time. Lotus and the Elise in particular wrote the book on lightweight sports cars and around a properly tight and twisty road or track, it will reward with better involvement and behaviour without fail.
I wouldn't mind test driving the Elise just to get a feel for how the car is, however, I own normally aspirated cars and have driven some in the past and I am not all that impressed. Plus, there is a lot one can do in boosted application. For example the turbo alone mechanically can be tampered with to give you more horse power.. The turbo alone can be replaced or hone out to get you better CFMs. anyway. so many options on what to play with next. Never gets old,
@@SaenzFonsi With the Elise, it's ALL about the chassis and the engine plays second fiddle in the mix. Besides, both the K-Series and Toyota engines Lotus used in the Elise are fantastically linear, smooth and rev happy engines... the paper stats are irrelevant when it comes to cars the handle like the Elise.
@@Nemoticon i guess, a more linear power response makes it for an easier to handle car on the track, and in Auto-crossing. Except, thar Elise owners not often seen in the Autocross clubs, sadly!
@@SaenzFonsi But a lot of Elise owners regularly blast the cars around circuits on the weekends and through the country side. I mean a lot of off-road capable cars are found in car parks, but many of them still have 4 wheel drive and locking diffs!!
@@Nemoticon When you pay so much for a special car, might as well enjoy it to the fullest..
One of the best back-to-back reviews! Thanks for doing this; it's great to see a high quality comparo that blends driving impressions with outside shots.
When the Elise first arrived in the U.S. in 2005, Road & Track rated it as the fastest
car in the world on a curved course, beating out Ferrari and Porsche. They called it
a 'go cart' on steroids.
I liked the review. This guy knows his elite GT cars and what to look for. Good job young man.
Appreciate and liked the video. Love the cars, and am envious of the empty roads you took them down so quickly - looked like a lot of fun.
Wee friendly tip on the sound. Broadcast audio is usually levelled around the -12db mark (unless you are running ads in the US circa 1990 where they crank it as loud as possible). Your voiceover is clipping.
Not sure what i was expecting when i clicked on this, but i am very glad that i did. This was a great comparison and a fantastic video!
That setup ruined the 4C!😩
It’s not good example 🍀
Keep 'em coming man.. I missed your vids!
Agreed!
6:58 I was a little confused from what I heard, but after looking at the official specs I got it. The US version of the 4C is 17 percent heavier than the European spec. So if you have the chance, definitely try the lighter one.
It's a shame what US regulations did to the 4C.
Heard the exact criticism from a car journalist who happens to own an Elise. He said the 4C steering is compromised under heavy braking and corners at high speeds. Best to drive under 80%. Heard there may be a fix for that, but who wants to pay $50K and fix something out of the gate. When this first hit the market, I chose a used Cayman instead. 4C does look good though.
Good to hear someone else shares my impressions. The 981 base Cayman I reviewed recently gave me much more confidence on the same road. Like, night and day difference. Much less "raw" than the Alfa though.
I'm going Elise by some margin. The 4C with its manual steering, ect. Should have gotten a manual to keep with the analogue theme. Missed opportunity in my opinion.
You can't drive the 4C with one hand, the wheel moves too much as it picks up everything from the road. Even with two hands it feels as if you are holding a bull by its horns, especially if the road is not very smooth/clean. At 9:04 you can hear this guy say "the steering wheel is fighting me", earlier he says the wheel doesn't inspire confidence. A common mod are in fact suspension blocks to reduce such nervousness www.alfa9supply.com/suspension/alfa-romeo-4c-suspension-blocks
Sorry but is not i own a 4C well tuned! It is a monster! And you have to drive it with 2 hands on the steering. This is a magic car. Trust me
Seems odd to make an ultra focused car and give it an auto. It's why the a110 doesn't do it for me either.
Where are you seeing 4c in $35-40k range? $42500 is the cheapest currently listed and it has accident report. 4c retail is $45-55k and upwards $65k for close to new examples.
I meant to say the 4C is 5-10k more, in the 40-45 range as shown in the video thumbnail
4C’s are raising in price every day...
I seen someone on you tube with a 700hp turbo Honda in an Elise, that look extremely fun.
K20 swap...?
The biggest problem with the Alfa is they never made one with a manual transmission.
On the 4C if the handling feels like it's about to kill you, it probably needs the geo done with some suspension blocks. Completely transforms the car. Also sounded a bit odd on the fast exits. Suspect that's also a rear suspension issue. I ended up going 4C over an elise for the daily livability 👍
I'm 59 and own a 4c..I've also owned a VX220T, an Elise under the skin. The 4c is better in every single way, even before you compare the looks ..
@Thor Odin son the exige is not the competitor of the 4C, the Elise is. It's like comparing a Miata to a 458 Speciale
@@FilippoFontanella the Exige and Elise are basically the same car.
@Thor Odin son A standard 4c 1740cc engine produces more bhp per tone than the 1800 Elise..pointless talking about one off engines, there is a 700 bhp 4c hill climb car out there....
4C is heavier, has a worse chassis, worse steering, worse suspension and would get embarrassed around any circuit in the UK by a VX220 Turbo.
That's before we even start on what Lotus you can buy for a comparable price to a 4C. You are talking V6 Exige money which will obliterate a 4C.
@@ImBarryScottCSS Sorry but that's just crap Auto Express did a track test between the supposedly best handling car, the Porsche Caymen, and a 4c ...Their lap limes were exactly the same...See it on TH-cam
One day I would LOVE to own an Elise or Exige and drop an Honda engine in it. The Lotus is an spectacular car 😁😁😎. Great Video 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
Like Ur review! Like these two mini lightweight Mid-engined supercars!!!
Your thoughts on the 4C echo what I have heard others say and for that reason I think the 4C Spyder would be the better play. You could enjoy the sunshine and wind in that car while going at a more moderate pace and still have a really exciting machine that looks and sounds great. I'm seeing gently used Spyder's in the upper 40's to low 50's so the price premium would probably make that worth it.
happy belated birthday. this review was fire. I subscribed. you're the man
Lotus gets my vote.
Never driven the 4C, but the series 2 Elise/Exige is just a great platform for people with “normal” income to enjoy driving.
Very good video. Love both models. Maybe someday will add either to share the garage with our 2019 C❤rvette.
Very good review & comparison. Good choices! Got the Elise spot on. Never driven the Alfa - but will do so...
Awesome comparison video! Happy 30th Birthday, Fenton! (30 is super young!).
Very nearly traded in an Integrale Evo2 (which I love) for a 4c. I don't buy new cars very often but I was very tempted with the 4c. Due to the Alfa dealership not interested I decided to keep the Integrale then bought a used Elise. I'm cool with that. Integrale is now worth twice the cost of a used 4c, Elise is N/A and cheap as chips to run. As time goes on I think the Elise looks better but still really like the 4c.
I agree 100% with you about the 4C not inspiring confidence to drive. I've owned my 2005 Elise for almost 5 years. The car is amazing to drive. Even pushing it to it's limits, I does exactly what you want it to without question. But last year for my birthday , my son rented a 4C for the day. When i pulled into the rental with the Elise. The owner of the Alfa asked me if I could give it a little workout and let him know what i thought about it. He put it in race mode and let me have at it. The alpha is really quick and the turbo lag is minimal but noticeable. The real test came from some twisty roads in the mountains. It didn't take long to get the Alfa to the edge to the point that the front end lost its grip. I don't know wether it was the tires or just the suspension itself. I was able to maintain control of the car but it left me great full to give the keys back to the owner. Iv'e pushed my Lotus to the edge many times and have never said to myself, I should not have tried to do that. That being said , the Alfa is a looker but it is a hand full to drive.....
Great video man!!
I think I would take the 4C over the Elise but probably the Evora over the 4C. Hard choice though!
the evora is an overlooked gem. i drove a first gen one. 280 horsepower means it's not a teleportation device, but you just enjoy every meter of a good road, and yet it's really useable. the rear "seats" are such a bonus cause you just have a spot to put your jacket or backpack inside the cabin, which is just a headache with a strict two seater. i'd love to have a go in a sport 380 or something like that
Yes more content like this!
Like many have said there is something not right with the 4C suspension. I have one have tracked it and driven in a "spirited" fashion to use your term and never experienced the clunking you did. Also going to Michelin sport tire over Pirelli made a difference.
Hey I'm 57 own The Elise S1 and Evora 400 enough said :)
You are also Anglo, hence your stated preference.But in reality, the 4C is much better and can beat a british car...
@@hankwilliams5622 your opinion but in reality its really not 😬
@@nickiismymother4624 you deny you are anglo?
@@hankwilliams5622 Anglo means white- I’m black 🧍🏾♀️
@@nickiismymother4624 even worse....
You should try a stock Alfa 4C.
Elise is much better on the sort of roads we get in the UK. It's really easy to upset the steering in the 4c, it needs nice smooth tarmac where as the Elise just grips endlessly even on bumps and in the wet.
It’s not difficult at all to get over the door sill. You just have to get in totally different, with the hand supporting you. Strange nobody showed you before reviewing these.
Totally agree on the steering qualities!
@Zygrene any idea where the owner sourced the front splitter that's fitted to that Elise?
And yes, after 13 years of ownership I can't think of anything for the money that can compare to an Elise!
Did you find the source of the splitter? I want to say its something that was discontinued 5-10 years ago.
Any idea how much these cars cost when it came out or just the last year of production?
May I know what rear wing and front lip is the Elise using? Looks fabulous!
Great comparison video, these are the type of sports cars I'd have gone for when I was younger....bit too old now I like comfort 😂
The elise (and/or exige) is really just the best handling car.. once you drive one everything else just feels "meh"
I literally cannot wait for a 2022 BRZ review
Man fuckins SAME
Great review man!
I have yet to drive a 4C but it's hard to beat a Lotus for joy/$ ratio, driving dynamics and predictability up to and past the limits, and reliability as a track machine. Neat to see the difference though; on paper the 4C is def faster but sounds like it takes some getting used to and perhaps some suspension tuning. Might not be a fair comparo too since the Lotus here is clearly well sorted out... oh and go team Voltex!
I'm honestly surprised that some are praising the elise a being a great track car. While cross shopping one, and owning a 2zz swapped mr2 prior, there are a lot of deficiencies in the drivetrain that have to be addressed before making elise a hardcore trackday car (diff, oil pump, brakes, control arms, shift linkage... among some). Once those things are addressed, sure, it would be a great track car, but the streetability is compromised and the total cost can surpass 50k$.
@@oyurcha1 fair point. It takes lots of upgrades to get one fully robust for routine abuse. I'm sure a MR2 or S2K or mx5 can be made do the job for a lot less. Still, I haven't found a more exciting car for even twice the price with a roof so here I am seven years on still pounding on the Lotus. And she just keeps on rattling and buzzing.
@footballcoreano I'd love to try one! I did drive the Giulia SV and that was very impressive for a sedan. I enjoy my Lotus but I'm open to other great sports cars. My current next possible car is the 718 Spyder. So far I love it.
So...are we gonna see Nitron dampers, R888R, and lighter rims on the Alfa?
Lots of people talk about how brilliant the Elise is and how much grip it has how balanced it is blah blah blah all true but when things go pear shaped - a corner that tightened up too much or a nice patch of diesel on the road that's when you'll wish the Elise had a limited slip diff. It makes a big difference in the MK1 Elise which had wider 185 front tyres as standard and could swap ends very quickly after wagging it's tail hard. US Federal Mk2 Elise had 175 tyres to give them more understear and less need for race driver reactions at the limit. I have a quaife torque biasing diff on my S1 and it's a huge improvement enabling you to put the power down pulling out of tight junctions without fear of the car swapping ends on you. If your the Stig or Tiff Nedell ignore this advice but if your not a driving god it's worth the expense.
Another great review, well done!
And Exige S260 is my dream car (or one of the newer ones .. the sport or cup
One.. they’ve made like 10 variations in the last few years with more
Power
And more power.
But anyway.. any of them .. dream car.
Did thst shifter kit fix
Some of the vagueness that those
Elise had from thst time period ?
Guys, calm down! :) They are both great cars, albeit somewhat different. Everyone will have an opinion on what car is best, but the only way to know is to own them both. BTW, it seems that the shaking of the suspension in the Alfa was due to the electronic LSD activation (E-Q2 system) exacerbated by more aggressive brake pads in the rear. (it repeatedly brakes the inside rear wheel to prevent wheelspin)
Both amazing. As an Italian i am proud of Alfa and love it. Especially because oc the look. Thats a small Ferrari
Wonder is Oleg got the car from copart. Might explain why it’s shakes and jerks on the turns
Well, now I gotta see if I can find an Elise to try to test. The Alfa is just so much fun, even at my 6'2", 250 lbs
What camera mounts did you use for your driver side and passenger side shots (forward facing shots through the windshield)?
Seems like the 4C just needs some suspension tuning. They develop these cars on specific tires and Shocks/Spring rates. Corner balancing on a light car like this would also work wonders.
Those RRR’s really make the Elise stiffer and noisier than a dedicated street tire.
You really need to shift at the limiter in the NA Elise to stay on cam which is annoying vs letting the chassis flow with a broader power band. The supercharged versions definitely help here but the engine/blower combo isn’t as smooth and is significantly noisier with more nvh.
Yup I've driven a supercharged 300hp Exige. The power was great but the deafening whine and NVH made it harder to enjoy the drive. NA Elise all the way.
@@Zygrene good to know. Been contemplating supercharging my elise for awhile. Seems like it would be better to just k24 swap it and shoot for 250-300 whp NA
Where on earth are you finding a 35k elise everywhere I look they’re 45 to 65
Is wrapping thumbs around the wheel the new way?
We were taught to avoid braking your thumbs.
I was just thinking the same as I saw it... Really dangerous
Im torn, they are both beautiful!
Team LOTUS 💚💚💚
Nickel and Dime players compared to Alfa-Romeo!
Loving this video zygrene you have a new sub here 👍💯
Anybody knows where to find those carbon bonnet vents on the elise? They seem to deflect hot air away from the roof scoop of the exige
What is the aftermarket suspension changed the driving... 😉
So a smooth sports car vs a beautiful moving couch lol. Also amazing quality content on the video
4C is not really a "b" road scratchers (UK). Cambers are a problem, BUT You need to drive all types of roads, and of course there are differences. Sense of occasion in the 4C is immense. It's near to a 458, without anyone hating you. It has "character", but that's why you really end up loving it.
I like the carbon fiber and hp/torque of the alpha, but I like everything else about the lotus.
Ahem, sell the 997 and get an Elise 😎
Haha once the 997 is sorted I'll be happy. It's 10x more comfortable than the Elise.
Zygrene That’s what the Evora is for ;)
The Evora is a great car. Just nervous about maintenance but I'm getting burned on the 997 so maybe that's a moot point 😂
@@Zygrene That Toyota V6 will NEVER misfire on you though. Just make sure the clutch is in good shape and you should be good for a couple trouble-free years of ownership. It's a more barebones 911 with a japanese engine, I'd think that's right up your alley!
@@Zygrene you're young dude, why are complaining about comfort? Start thinking about it when you're 45/50 at least.
what tires does the 4C fit in the video? model and mark? thank you in advance for your answer
Bridgestone RE71R
@@Zygrene and also do you remember the mesaure of tyre? Is it the original size? Because it is very difficult (in principal in the front axle) to find the tire with the original size. Obvously except of original Pirelli tyre, but in my opinion is a bad tyre!!!
@@michelebelcaro8318 get 17 / 18 inch wheels. it transforms the car completely. and yes the pirellis are absolute garbage. i‘m running yokohama a052 in 215/45 17 in the front and 245/40 18 at the back
the tires are 215/40R18 and 245/35/R19, RE71R
@@South4153 I imagine, that by mounting a smaller size the attitude changes, a lot of people told me on track days!!! it's just that for aesthetic reasons I like 18/19 inc more and I only go to the track once a year. And Also in Italy, I have practically had the 4c stopped in the garage for two years because of Covid so for now there si not have a sense, for me, to buy a new rims with 17/18 inch
I drove by your car today close to HWY 1 and i search Lotus Elise and this pops up!
I'm torn as the Lotus factory is less than 10 miles away but I love Alfas
Great vid Fenton 💕
I'm 65 and an inch taller than him and have no problems getting in or out of my 2005 Elise or getting my left knee bruised after driving it for hours.
@Zygrene Good review and video. i have a 4C and must say i agree with the lack of confidence with steering when you're pushing above 8 tenths. Do you know if the 4C you tested had aftermarket suspension blocks added to cure some of the steering issues?
Thanks. It did not have aftermarket suspension blocks but the owner is looking into disabling the brake vectoring as that might the cause of vibration.
what about the boxster compared to these?
Where i can buy a lotus new for 35k???
You should try a supercharged Elise. Lotus do and SC220 model which as it suggests has 220 bhp and the linear power of the supercharger. It’s the same engine with a supercharger added. It would be a better comparison engine wise to the Alfa.
is this in north bay, or south bay? some of those roads look familiar.. i drive my alfa spider on some of those roads
South east
The Elise is on slicks..??
Alfa is new to the lightweight sports car market? You need to recheck your history. They were doing it long before Lotus even dreamed of the Elise.
Agreed. Prime example is from 1965, when they had the GTA which stood for “Alleggerita” meaning light weight.
good point
@@chasinglimits And Lotus had "Seven" model in late 50s, and it was so ahead of its time, that you can still buy seven inspired car even today (Caterham). Checkmate! :-)
First mid engined lotus road car was the Europa, 1966. Alfa 33 stradale was 1967 so very similar.
Have you driven an Opel Speedster?
I drove my Elise from Dorset in the UK to Munich in Germany, only stopping for fuel... It was more comfortable than my BMW. Seriously. And I'm 6ft and 220lbs. No issues getting in and out either...
8,000 rpm and 190 hp is stock?
As a 370Z owner I'm very torn, because I want one of these or the other for my next sports car. I'm more partial to the 4C based simply on power and looks, but the fact that it doesn't have a manual transmission is criminal. The Lotus is the purer driver's car for sure, but it's gonna become very hard to find parts in another 5-10 years.
That’s the best road to hit hahaha. Should go up by the lake it’s nasty for the lotus I’m sure. Good review man!!!
what jacket are you wearing?
Where in the US is this?
It may be something wrong with your friend car, I own a 2021 Italia edition with a lot of mods that makes 345 HP and does not do that when coming out of the turn and the steering does not fight me st all. I also own a Spider Veloce 1983 with Mods, a Milano 1987 with mods and I think they are awesome drivers,