Vapour Barrier in a Van - I can Prove they Work.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 พ.ค. 2022
- I carry out a real test to show you that a vapour barrier does work and they can completely prevent the formation of condensation.
There are so many different opinions about vapour barriers in steel vans and nobody is proving their point, so I will prove to you that they do work.
The vapour barrier prevents moist air from coming into contact with cold surfaces and totally eradicates any condensation from forming in the first place. If the air cannot get to the cold metal then it cannot condense into water.
It is really easy to make a sealed barrier with foil bubble wrap and foil tape, just make sure to seal all the edges, joints and tape over any holes and service entry points.
There are many more useful videos like this in our full van build series
• Self Build Campervan -...
I'm an engineer so I like to deal with facts and science, not speculation and conjecture. I will only give you sound advice so please do subscribe to the channel and hit the bell notification. its a great way of saying thanks and its free.
Thank you very much for watching
Greg Virgoe
Eng Tech LCIBSE
Mechanical Engineer
#vapourbarrier #convertavan #preventcondensation - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
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A great practical demo on how it works! Genius. Thank you Greg! When I did my insulation I got half the van done with VB then winter came. Half my van was dripping where there was no VB, and the other half even though not sealed at edges was bone dry when I cut into it to check. So doesn’t even have to be 100% sealed to be massively effective. If the air doesn’t move through that gap it can’t carry moisture into it. Obv being sealed helps guarantee this. Front half of van started getting mould spots where water droplets kept collecting on top of PIR boards in ceiling. Vapour barrier for the win! Can’t cheat physics!
That’s a brilliant practical example confirmed. Nobody ever backs up their contradictory thoughts with actual proof or science so thank you for another rock solid example
So good, thanks. I’ve put a 7mm foil topped adhesive foam directly on the metal then put insulation on top of that. Do I still need a Vapour barrier on the outside of the insulation, eg over the top of the insulation as well? I see some people put a really thin foil over it. Appreciate your thoughts
I was watching a video on this subject from a guy who builds campervans for a living. He didn't put a vapor barrier on. I questioned this. He said most professional van builders don't as it causes more issues later on down the vans life.
Better to have some breathability if moisture does get in
Nice demo but there is a problem !
In theory in a tiny test where you can actually fully seal off the area, yes it works.
Vans are not fully sealed nor are they meant to be. Manufacturers have many drain holes, plugs, plastic trim attachments that come all way through into the inside of the van cavities. Thats why vans are designed to drain. Then we go and try to fully seal them up.
I do partially agree that adding multiple layers of good insulation and having partial sealed barriers on large wall and roof areas is a good idea.
BUT you simply can't full seal up all voids and all areas. So what happens when you try ? You end up sealing in any damp and wet that gets behind your vapour barrier, and it will.
Best idea is to use some form of final sheet layer of insulation (vapour barrier) to all large surfaces areas, this prevents "most" of your living space warm moist air hitting the walls BUT then add good ventilation so the easiest path for all that moisture is your roof fans, open windows etc.
All the areas you can't fully seal, allow the cavities to still breath.
On our van I did 90% seal up with a final layer of sheet insulation behind roof and wall panels. But at the edges where roof and ceiling join, at the lower areas especially at the back of van, the cavities can still breath to dry out if need be.
our 2 Maxx Air Fans are either open, or open and running pretty much 24/7. IN below zero in winter if were skiing the roof fans are open and Diesel air heater running to flush moisture and dry the air out.
A year later and I have pulled wall and ceiling panels and zero condensation issues. Day to day inside the van we never get condensation, just a little on the inside of the windscreen sometimes.
But as far as trying to full seal the van with a vapour barrier, from all the research I've seen vans aren't designed nor should they be full sealed up, vans are nor designed by manufacturers to be fully water proof and fully sealed up behind all the cavity spaces. Thats why there are drain holes all along the van sills.
Problem with this theory is that you might get condensation quickly where you have the steel visible and any water there that tries to espace downwards but get trapped behind the insulation in the walls. Your theory could work if you leave an air gap between the insulation in the walls so the water can follow the steel walls and flow downwards.
Also yes the vans are designed to let water out - because they get condensation. If you remove the physical possibility to get condensation, then you won't get any. It's physics laws straight forward. I've built 10 vans now and I'd still say that the best thing you can do is avoid any of the internal air to reach bare metal and the very best method for this is adding Armaflex closest to the steel. Then it's completely impossible to get any condensation at all.
I think this is the way. But you must have an air gap (20mm preferably if using some reflective on foam board) between the steel and insulation.
This way the van can get rid of the condensed water like it was designed to.
Now I would guess you could easily go for some thin sheep wool between your steel and (actual) insulation. Since it's breathable and mold resistant. It should release any moisture over time.
If you go this route I would guess these so called climate vaper barriers are the way to go. They control the flow rate a bit better to keep a nicer climate inside the van? Question mark? (I am no expert, just learning and reading about this topic)
Wrong, cavities are only in doors with WIND down windows, in every van I know of....No drain holes in my Van apart from front doors, they are designed to release water as water enters from the winding window...Trim Attachments on any van should be sealed especially sidestrips, look at umpteen youtube videos about sealing factory roof plugs, and side trim!!!!Major issue with vans, they need trim properly sealed regardless of insulation or a build out..Do proper research! Not sure what Van you have but it Ain't a Merc, Transit or others I know of..
@@Namdor2012 After 1 1/2 years and multiple sub zero ski trips I have pulled down my ceiling and wall panels and pulled back the 2 layers of Thinsulate, and the solid sheet (foil radiant layer) and what did I find ?
No sign of any condensation, no water or condensation damage, no mould or mildew. Dry as a bone.
I do not have a vapour barrier ! A cavity is just a "space" the whole van behind the walls, ceiling are cavity spaces.
I do have strong air barriers and plenty of active ventilation and airflow 2 x Max Air fans open or running 24/7
You don't need a vapour barrier. Allowing a van to breath and plenty of airflow, and good insulation, is the key to stopping condensation.
I have seen many a van that tries to seal up everything and they pull back walls etc to find damp, mould, wet insulation.
Greg, you are an absolute treasure for the RV- and Vanlife community! :D Having videos like this is key for people to understand how these things work.
In an ideal world we'd all have a Summon-A-Greg app, which sends a robotic Greg to just do the job for us.
I really appreciate that, thank you 🙏🏼
100% agree with you on vapour barriers. Great vid 👍
Thank you both 🙏🏼🤩
Thank you for helping me to FINALLY understand vapor barriers!
Thanks for this. Just started building my van and your videos and guides are by far the best. Always good to learn from someone who genuinely knows what they're talking about! 👏👏👏👍
Thank you and best wishes for your build.
We’re currently looking for a van to do our own van build & your videos will be a constant help throughout our build. Thanks for sharing 👍🏼
Best wishes hope everything goes well for you both 😃👍🏼
Nice work Greg. Good, clear, simple way to get the facts across...Brilliant!
Thank you very much
well done that man, you have done me a 100 % big favour. I have now decided how to insulate and vapour seal my van. Thank you.
I’m glad you found that to be useful. Thanks for watching 👍🏼
Another great video Greg. I’m just starting out on our conversion, and taking your advice from your build videos. First one being, insulation and vapour barrier are essential. 👍
You will be doing the right thing well done 👍🏼😃
Love it when you do this stuff Greg, will wait for a moment of peace over the weekend to watch 🙂
Thank you and hope you enjoy it 😊
Great experiment Greg, very clear. I'm eagerly awaiting the next addition with insulation on the bucket but no vapour barrier for the comparison between vapour barrier or no vapour barrier. The time and effort you put into these videos is really appreciated.
I might have to put these in a dedicated playlist. 🤔🤩
That is an absolutley brilliant Demo Greg...i have converted 3 vans in my time and always carry out thermal insulation and vapour barrier as standard. Great video.
Then you can sleep peacefully at night knowing you’ve done a first class job 👍🏼😃
Well done Greg. I’m going to share this video with my van builder friends!
Edit: There’s also the effect of increased relative humidity due to cooking, heating and breathing. Good reason for proper ventilation as well.
Thanks again for another great van build video. IMHO, you’re one of the best on YT!
Thank you very much. Really appreciate your support 👍🏼😃
Smug grinning from me as I followed his advice. I can't tell you how many videos I've watched that said you don't need it.
Thank you Greg 👍
I know I’m trying my best to help point people in the right direction
Thank you Greg this is the way I've done my insulation on my build and so much rubbish about the vapour barrier. I'm about to start electrics and your videos are a blessing 🙌
I’m pleased that you followed my method. You will have no problems in the future. Best wishes 😊
Perfectionist. Love your content and van build mate. Wish you and your family well. Happy travels Greg x
That’s very kind of you. Thank you 🙏🏼😃
Really great but simple practical example and explanation - well done Greg!!
Thank you very much Andrew 😃
Brilliantly demonstrated. Your videos are great and very informative.. keep up the good work.
Thank you very much Ian 👍🏼😃
I've been trying to get this question answered for ages!!! Thank you!
Im so happy to have answers for you 😃
Excellent demonstration, well done Greg.
Thank you 🙏🏼
I live in Tasmania and when I commenced my van build I had the luxury of watching your van build videos Greg. Hence my Sprinter has a complete vapour barrier and is well insulated. This demo video just impresses how vital those two components are when well fitted. Thanks mate. 👍
I’m very pleased you did the right thing. Well done 👍🏼😃
Excellent presentation, explains the situation very well. We have lots of condensation issues here in this part of the world, central Canada.
The winter 🥶 does get very cold there
Your van build videos are constant source of reference Greg, the difference adding just the PIR board to the roof of the van has been significant which convinced me I was going the right way. There's been a lot of chat around vapour barriers on the forums, this video should convince any doubters. You will spend thousands getting the interior how you want it, and have it all undone in a matter of months by ignoring this. Great work as always Greg 👍🏻
Exactly that. Thank you 🙏🏼
Did exactly this on our build thanks to your van build series. Huge thanks! The van is bone dry and stays cool in the sun and warm in the cold. So we’re very happy campers. Cheers Gregg. Would never have known what to do without you 👍🏻
That really makes me happy 😊 I know your van will be safe now
And I’ve just noticed I spelled Greg with two g’s… face… hand!
@@0i-di no problem I’ve had much worse 😂👍🏼
Great video Greg. And great to meet you yesterday and took the time for a chat. 👍
Thank you for coming to say hello. It was great to meet you too 😃
Top advice from a well trusted source, Thanks Greg
I really appreciate your feedback 🙏🏼😊
This was a great demonstration. Your videos have been so informative.
Thank you very much, I’m pleased you like them Candice 😊
That was a excellent experiment Greg..............definitely worth spending time getting you insulation right on your van first...........stay safe.........thanks for sharing
Absolutely. Thank you for your support. 👍🏼😃
I'm 100% convinced now! Nice One Greg!
I’m glad it has helped you 👍🏼😃
Thanks for that, Good practical demonstration… as you say, attention to detail in the taping is all it takes
Yes exactly and it’s not difficult to do just a little time.
Hi Greg, it was great to finally chat to you in person after following you for nearly 4 years.
Hope you had a great Camp Quirky. You will need a rest after meeting so many people.
Regards,
Steve.
It was extremely busy but also great to meet so many new people that follow our channel. Thank you Steve 👍🏼😃
A really good demonstration. I've noticed a lot of US based van builders don't install vapour barriers, so have wondered how necessary it is. Now I know and will ensure I fit one when I get around to doing a build.
The only time you wouldn’t need one is if the climate you was living in was always very warm above the dew point. 👍🏼😃
@@GregVirgoe That did occur to me as a reasonable situation.
Hi Greg thanks for another great video👍. Just watching a new channel called Ame in a van and she talks about this guy who is an absolute legend who she watched whilst building her van. That guy is you.👍
Ame and I chatted a few times when she was building her van 🚐
I’m so pleased she is now living her dreams and enjoying life 😃
Awesome way to demonstrate the benefits of vapour barriers...
Those kind of proof videos are absolutely brilliant
It’s not just someone’s opinion you can see the facts for yourself 👍🏼
That was well different Greg and I was impressed with the result.
It really does work very well 👌🏼
Thanks Greg we have followed your advice and seeing your experiment we are really glad we did. Especially when we go to Scotland in winter!
You can sleep soundly knowing you did a great job 👏🥰
This is invaluable information. Thank you Greg, your videos are fantastic.
great experiment and explanation! thank you! this type of information is precisely why I subscribed to your channel in the first place. 😊🏆✅
Thank you for your continued support 👍🏼😃
Super and simple experiment Greg!!
Glad you liked it 👍🏼
The Legend Of Virgoe continues. Thanx for clever chemistry lab demo.
Thank you very much Edd 😃
Best video on TH-cam on this vital subject....Fabulous
Thank you mark 👍🏼😃
Awesome stuff.. so glad I found your channel
I have learnt so much from this video and your others. Saw you at Stratford upon Avon doing a talk to the punters. Learnt much there as well. Cheers Greg.😊
You are an absolute genius 🤓. Your videos are all amazing 🤩.
I am trying to watch all of them , before I buy my next van for a conversion. Thank you so much for all the efforts and all the valuable information that you introduce into your amazing videos. Honestly, I would trust no one to do the conversion of my next van , but you my friend. Great job 👌👍 I hope you can do it for me 😉
I can help give you the right information. I don’t convert vehicles myself for a living. 😊
This is why I did my van as you did yours, thanks for the explanation though 😎💪🏼
I’m pleased you did the right thing 👍🏼😃
Love your precision and knowledge,such a useful vlog, thank you 🙏
Thank you for great feedback 🤩
A very well needed video Greg and an excellent visual demonstration and explanation. The number of times I see people doing conversions and not putting a vapour control layer on the inside is unbelievable and even more unbelievable is that they don't here me shouting at the telly " are you havin a laugh mate".
I'm a retired building standards surveyor with 42 years service so I've seen multiple build project with failed vapour control layers. I was involved in a demolition job where a timber framed house had to be demolished because the structural timber had rotted at the sole plate and compression started on the loadbearing timbers applying load to the decorative, non-structural brickwork that cracked and partially demolished itself. Anywhoo the problem was found to be poor fitting of the vapour barrier, missing sections of vapour barrier and massive tears, holes where the services had been installed which resulted in the old style quilt insulation being soaked because dew point temperature occurred in the outer 1/3rd of the quilt insulation which, in turn soaked the insulation then the timbers and structural plywood (which sort of answers Jonny's question below).
I just don't understand why folk would live in a steel box and not expect condensation on the steel yet they buy a window vac to remove it from glass........DAH!!!!
Oh and one other thing that baffles me.......all those minibus conversions out there where they paint the glass they don't want, window tint the glass they do, and frame behind it leaving "windows". I've commented on many build videos asking for an explanation of how they seal between the glass and the painted, framed and insulated sections because, as far as I know, silicon will fail and condensation from the visible glass must surely drop behind the framing so there is a future potential rot issue down the road. Nobody has ever given me a proper answer and most say "oh I used proprietary seals".......maybe I should ask Autoglass for a proprietary seal for a 2006 Mercedes Vario minibus conversion between the glass and timber framed wall panel please and oh, it needs to be 100% watertight..... so the guy will scratch his head, other body parts, look through his store room and reply..."what was the question again"
A future video suggestion that I'm sure you've not shown before unless I've missed it , would be to deliberately wire a 12V item using too thin a cable to show meltdown and heating of the wire so people start thinking about their cable sizing. You have excellent videos on that subject but I don't recall you demonstrating a failure/overheat scenario in real time so just a thought.
Keep the videos coming Greg and sorry for the long comment but some things make me go off on one especially important issues.
It’s amazing isn’t it how even when the facts are proven in front of your very eyes it’s still questioned by those that have no academic proof themselves. But there are 5% believe the earth is flat so there is no helping some people 😂🤣
Here’s my cable sizing video with the wires bursting into flames that you wanted to see ⚡️😳
th-cam.com/video/koFg6oFs0RU/w-d-xo.html
@@GregVirgoe Thanks Greg I'll check it out now
proves that. Good one as ever! Hope that you're both well. R&T NYorks
That really helped reassure me. Thank you
Nice one Greg, nice to know all my hard work was worth doing. 😇😍
Thanks Greg for the valuable information you provide. Watching you from far Chile. Cheers mate!
Really appreciate your support 👍🏼
Great illustration
Thank you 🙏🏼
Great experiment. Couldn't remember if I put the reflective barrier or insulation on first - knew I could rely on GregV to provide the correct answer! cheers :D
You are welcome Elaine, best wishes with your conversion.
Excellent démonstration!
Thank you 🙏🏼
Excellent demonstration of how to form a closed cell installation by using insulation & vapour barrier- I do smile when I see comments about using vapour barrier & the reasons why you shouldn’t use it. Yet they use celotex on there roofs or suggest ventilation- you just need to sit in a back of a van when it’s pouring with rain outside to see the condensation forming like a river… - no amount of ventilation will stop it forming, unless you’re sleeping with all the doors an windows open. Not very stealth or safe! 👍 Thank you for sharing the holy grail of Vapour barrier debates! 🎉🎉
Thank you for your support 👍🏼😃
As always fantastic video Greg. I really do love the scientific approach you take.
It’s not just my thoughts it’s actual facts I’m trying to convey so people get the right information 😃
@@GregVirgoe and what better way to prove it than scientifically controlled experiments? Great job!
Great Blog As Always Greg ♥️💯 Definitely A Bad Idea Not Having A Barrier ,👏👏
Yes it does not make sense letting your van get wet inside. 🤔
Great job greg and a good example
Thank you very much 👍🏼😃
Very nice experiment Greg.
Thank you 😊
Nice one Greg. I have followed your advice on 3 van builds after seeing that you obviously know your onions.. I would be interested in seeing the test again using insulation but no vapour barrier as I know many builders put in insulation with no barrier..
I will do that as a follow up video.
👍🏼😃
Thats exactly what I thought jonny. Get it done Greg as that will be the one that will get people thinking.
The building philosophy years ago, was to put polythene (non-permeable) over the insulation (usually Rockwool or fibreglass (itchy stuff) and then plasterboard over it. But, any gaps within the plasterboard, plaster failure (plaster can provide air tightness layers too), the polythene can sweat at the back and the moisture will run/drip down and start the erosion process of your timber studs, so, that's why, if you want increased air tightness within your house, you use an air tightness member called Intell and then tape up the seams/joints with Tescon Vana air tightness tape.
Another good lesson Greg!
Thank you 🙏🏼
I'm all for vapour barrier and have installed it, the experiment has proved the need for insulation. It would have been interesting to see a 1/3 of the bucket with just insulations 1/3 with vapour barrier 1/3 bare metal.
Cheers for the video anyway 👍
I’ll do another one just with insulation to show that condensate too 👍🏼😃
It would be interesting to see behind 'just' vapour barrier too. For those spots where you can't get any insulation.
Great vid Greg.
Nice one Greg. I'll check out your videos about insulation in your playlist. Thanks
Thank you very much. You’ll find some very useful facts there 😃
You're preaching to the converted here, but I really hope this provides support to those who still doubt the benefits of a vapour barrier. Great to see you at Camp Quirky, I'll be sporting your famous 'Half Hour' t-shirt very soon... 🙂
Thank you for your support Dan. Very much appreciated 👍🏼😃
Great video as usual!!
Absolutely brilliant
Thank you very much 👍🏼
Great Video Greg well explained
Thank you Christy 😃
Excellent video Greg. Thank you!
You are welcome. Thanks for watching 👍🏼😃
Nice work Greg 👍
Thank you 🙏🏼
Excellent really practical demo thanks
Great experiment I always wanted to know if this theory works, and you proved that it does work " vapor barriers do work when done correctly"
Thank You for proving this theory 👍🇺🇸
Yes they do work and it why everywhere in industry when you have cold metal surfaces they are insulated and vapour barrier applied to prevent condensation. It’s not hard to do either.
Very interesting, I'm glad to see this. Lots to think about now
I hope it helps you make the right decisions 👍🏼 best wishes 😊
Great video Greg! Cheers mate 👍🏴
You’re welcome
Loved this .. thank you!
Great video Gregg👍, I spent over £500 on the insulation and vapour barrier, I'd never put in a single glazed window for that reason also.
The double glazed ones are much better thermally. We do get some condensation on our bonded windows when it’s really cold 🥶
@@GregVirgoe A great excuse to leave the cold winters behind 😁👍
Perfectly explained!
Thank you mate, appreciate your comment 👍🏼😃
Thank you. Cool experiment. 👍😎
Glad you liked it 😃
Very well presented and so true
Thank you very much 👍🏼😃
Great video 👍good explanation
Thank you very much 😃
Be interesting to see what would happen with just insulation and no vapour barrier. Maybe do the same experiment but hold the insulation on with chicken wire. Great video though Greg as all ways 👍
Closed cell foam like armacell might show some condensation when it's not entirely glued to the shell. There could be rust between shell and insulation.
But if it's glued on well, it's like a barrier by itself.
I totally agree with what you say Greg. I was interested to see what VW did in there California, when I inspected one there was no insulation or vapour barrier behind the sink cupboards and the bare skin of the van was visible, this was on a 2018 California. I did hear that Vw say the output of the diesel heater over comes any issues. When i did my Vw camper I didn’t use any insulation I just rely on the diesel heater, obviously it’s worked much harder and very very wasteful on fuel, but in the morning after a winter camp the exterior of the van like the inside is bone dry. If I used my van for longer than weekends then I would have adopted the vapour barrier and insulation approach.
Great video as always.
You have to keep the entire metal fabric of your vehicle above the Dew point temperature and provide loads of ventilation too but I guarantee it would cost an absolute fortune every night and would not work over winter when it’s really cold. You are paying ridiculous money for that sub standard installation too 😳
Great info that should prove doubters wrong 👍
No doubt there will still be many that don’t believe it. 😂
Nice one Greg 👍 top job mate
Thank you buddy 👍🏼😃
A great video Greg!!!
Thank you 🙏🏼
Love an experiment! This demonstrates perfectly why you need insulation in your van.
Thank you Fiona 😃🥰
Perfect use of the studio..
I did watch an American video discussing that in dry areas, a vapour barrier is not required..
Providing your climate does not fall below the dew point even at night you do not need one correct. Doesn’t it get very cold in desert areas at night?
@@GregVirgoe I was just highlighting that one might not need it depending on location. I’m convinced European conversions should have one
@@theageingexplorer9488 and I was agreeing with you 👍🏼😃
HI Greg, ive seen almost every single video of you and used as much of your knowledge as my build would allow.
Still everyday gratefull of that, Thank you very much.
Still hate the jubileeclips just like you, started to leak just like yours...
And so on and so on...
A friend of mine still believes they old sheeps wool thing with cladding...
I'll sinds him this video ;-)
Greetings from Vught, the Netherlands
I have noticed recently that even the manufacturers website for sheep wool insulation are advocating the use of vapour barrier so they must have changed their minds 😃
Brilliant!
Very good video Greg 👍💙❤️
Many thanks buddy 👍🏼😊
Thank you very much for this informative video.
You’re welcome 😉
thank you so much, i never understood how it worked. this also explained condensation itself to me at 21 years old lmao
I'm really pleased you found it to be interesting, thanks for watching
Thanks Greg!
You’re welcome 😉
Facts over fiction i’d say Greg. You’re akin to Ronseal … does exactly what it say in the tin👍 PS great to see you imparting your time serves skills at Camp Quirky this last weekend too 👍 Cheers
I’m happy to give my time and expertise for free so that everyone can benefit by doing the right thing and not be sidetracked by mis information and speculation.
Most good experiment and explination of the need for vapour barriers. would be need to see the same experiment with out the vb just with the insulation?
Yes I will do that for completeness. 😊
You are a top man Greg.
Thank you very much 👍🏼
let's say I have been collecting van building video tips for a year or two now and this particular video popped back up inside my mind after seeing somebody apply spray foam to an interior (it looks good) - i recalled "oh but don't forget the vapor barrier") :)
Spray foam is a closed cell product so it is its own vapour barrier and would not need further treatment
@@GregVirgoe thanks! Yes, a few days later and I've understood that now
The video I've been waiting for. Well, let's distribute that in certain Facebook groups, grab some popcorn and wait for the "experts" to respond. 😁
Well, since Greg is literally "an expert", that should be interesting.
Yep, @@rogerstarkey5390. I agree. Greg has always been (and always will be) my one-stop information source for everything that has to do with van building. And vapour barriers have made sense to me from the start, but I'm sure you know yourself how many there are out there with an MD in TH-camry and a PhD in Googology who explain with great confidence that they're not only unnecessary, but counterproductive. Let's see if they weigh in here as well. 😁
Your use of the word expert in relation to Facebook is questionable 😂🤣
As always a brilliant comment.
Cheers 🍻