Classic Mopar Ignition Systems - How They Work, How To Diagnose Issues
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ค. 2024
- In my second installment on muscle era Chrysler electrical systems, it’s a look at the ignition, including a description of how the common systems work, and how to know if your issue is or is not caused by the ballast resistor.
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Great video. I love how you clean off your work bench. A detailed video on the GM hei would be great. Thanks
Man fck GM
It's great to see this type of work.Back in the day I didn't appreciate as much,these parts were plentiful in any junkyard.Good times
I’ve been all over TH-cam trying to find a good explanation of the mopar ignition system. Thank you very much. 🙏
Came back from a car show and put my 1967 Plymouth GTX in the garage. Next weekend attempting to go to another show and the 440 spun over but wouldn’t start. It always starts. Looked at your channel and diagnosed it as a loose connection to the orange box on the firewall. Thanks for the in-depth explanation of the old Mopar electrical system. I used your knowledge to get the car started and running again. Many thanks.
Awesome! Glad I could help!
@@DeadDodgeGarage In my past I had a 1969 copper GTS with a factory 383. That Dodge could fly. Thanks for your positive comments
The Mallory Unilite is a good sub and one thing that can cause weak spark on points is the wheel itself being rounded over from years of use. I had points in my 64 and the spark was weak and then nonexistent since the sharp edges were rounded over. Thank you for the content, I'm learning about the only cars I never cared for back in the 80's that were always factory stock hence boring to a 20 something...
Great information as I’m working on getting my 66 Fury started.
Have to give thanks to uncle Tony for turning me onto your channel. 👍
Thank you for posting this video. I swapped out points for a Pertronix on my 1966 273 and it went bad after 6 years which only amounted to 4000 miles. I put the points back in and it's been fine since. Points will always get you home; they can be serviced anywhere. Despite other people sweating by Pertronix, they left me stranded.
Wow. I can’t say I’ve ever had one fail, but I also haven’t had many of them. When I was younger, I was all about getting rid of points to try and get that extra 3 horsepower and “better starting” that electronic ignition is supposed to give. Total BS. I’m totally a points guy at this stage in life. So simple, and yes - so easy to fix. The only trouble nowadays is actually sourcing decent points.
@@DeadDodgeGarage Yep, everyone I tell my experience to is also shocked. According to one of their techs that we spoke to, excessively high voltage can kill the unit. I don't ever remember jump starting it with something that was more than 14 volts. I'm just disgusted because I was happy with the perceived "extra" performance right until it stranded me.
Getting quality condensers is now a problem. Will the HEI module work with points? Who makes a quality HEI module?
@@gfbemc0256 yes, it is compatible with points. There is a wiring guide for this online that I’ve used before. The best quality points and condensers in my experience have been Echlin, and as far as HEI modules I’m not sure. I use Standard and they are fine.
Thank You for doing this video and for really dialing it back to the basics. I’ve been reading…reading and reading all about starters, coils, ignitions, relay baluster’s and it just was not sinking in. After watching this once I at least know what each component does and how they work together to start the engine. I’m very excited and already feel way more confident to do some of those troubleshooting tests.
Awesome! Very happy to help. If you have any questions in the future, you can always ask in a comment and I’ll assist if I can.
Great explanation of how these sparkys work!
great tutorage of the venerable MOPAR electronic ignition system. I loved the system very few problems. in my early mec nik days my 74 Duster wouldn't start threw a 90,00 bill at it, only to take it to an auto shop. The old, grizzled owner held up a fairly bright piece of ceramic. And said you call yourself a shade tree mec nik and told me about the ballast resistor. red faced after I bought a spare for the massive sum of 2.00. thew it in my glove box with the appropriate nut drive, each year I would put the glove box one on and a new one in the glove box, as I said very few problems. Keep up the good work.
Thank you so much for this clear explanation..
I bought an ‘65 dart and didn’t run for like 20 years or so.
I bought new sparkplugs,wire,points and distributor but still don’t get a spark. Think my coil died and it’s omw.. hopefully I’ll bring her back to life with youre tutorial/guides in my mind.
The best explanation I've seen so far! I'm glad this came up as suggested. Thanks! I just subbed to your channel
Excellent, informative and clearly explained.
As you were cleaning off your bench, I said to myself …I was needing that!
Been watching these videos from your channel after i bought my 72 w100 that someone hacked together. Your videos are very informative. Not many videos on dodges out there
Awesome 👍 job guys I appreciate all your Tips and video's keep up the great build
I pulled my 66 dodge power wagon out of 20 years of storage, I am having this issue, thanks for your help.
Excellent video my friend!!
Thanks! This is exactly the type of video I was looking for!
You bet! Happy to help!
Thanks for the video and explanation. Seems I have to revisit the electrical explanations constantly lol. Never seem to grasp it for any extended length of time.
Cheers
That’s ok! So many people are in the same boat. I am lucky to have worked my way to a really good understanding of the Chrysler systems in particular after years of disappointment and failure, and now I’m happy to share my knowledge with you and everyone else.
Great video! Thank you, you saved the day!!!
Great video you explained it nicely
Sweet this just basically taught me how to do the lean burn delete for my slant 6.
Thanks man, this video helped figure out a problem I was having.
Awesome job bro ya helped me a ton. Pickup adjustment solved my problem. Thanks man really really appreciate ya mopar wisdom.
Awesome! Happy to help.
Awesome video
Please make more like this
Absolutely planning to in the near future. Have many more subjects to cover.
Love this, Thank you!
I wish I had you as my auto shop instructor !!!
Thanks for your education !
Hahaha. Clever blend of sarcasm, condescending verbiage, and car intellect.
Great video... thanks!
Thanks for the advice dude… I like the intro. That’s exactly how I clean the dinning table😂
Haaahaha. I would like to try that some time but I’m not sure it will be well received…
@@DeadDodgeGarage just do it the wife stay mad only for a minute or 10. Worth it
😆👍
Great Video..Thanks 👍🏾
I liked your description. I have a 70 Superbee and had a problem where while driving I had a total loss of power, everything in the car stopped working then the car just died.
Everything? Total loss of electrical accessories? All of the power goes through the amp gauge, although I feel like if it was running and charging it should’ve stayed running if that died. Charge voltage and loads are on the same side of the amp gauge so it can measure power flowing into and out of the battery. But issue could be in those circuits somewhere. If it now has no power anywhere that’s relatively easy to diagnose. You could check out my Mopar No Crank, No Start video for some tips on that.
Thank you Jamie
TU. I relistened to the 1 spark. Tru.. Crank no start, Let go of key, one spark. New Mopar module fix. Bought extra module (in trunk). Going HEI next time 👍
You had no cranking spark but had a test spark, and it was actually the ignition module that was bad? That is surprising. Usually in that case it’s the distributor.
@@DeadDodgeGarage Me didn't know, so, I cannon shot the coil, first. Then, O'Reilly ECU. Running. Replaced with orig to make sure, no go. Bought extra in trunk ☹️. The most complicated part is usually at fault. 🤔. Cheers! Thank you for keeping them running
The Standard Motor Products LX101 "Chrysler orange box" replacement works well also.
Absolutely. This is my go to for the factory systems.
Great video, I’m pretty confident I can convert my fifth ave from lean burn and wire a module now
I’m confident you can too, but if you aren’t aware, you will also need the earlier style distributor with a single pickup, an advance curve, and a vacuum pod.
@@DeadDodgeGarage yes, jegs sells a kit that has everything to do it except for a non feedback carb
thanks....great work!!!!
You just answered several questions I had, thank you.
One little thing. Check that the wire from the side of the distributor isn't grounding out on the housing. A hint from Ask Smokey from an old Popular Mechanics magazine.
Have never seen that yet, but definitely makes sense. We just had another really good one too - make sure there isn’t a short in your tachometer… It’ll to the same thing.
@@DeadDodgeGarage Too funny. It's never ending.
Awesome thank you!!
I enjoyed your explanation of the two main types of Morpar ignition systems. I’ve seen a few other channels do similar vids on them but none of them explained it so simply and thoroughly as you did. I would like to hear your analyses on some of the high performance systems on the market and how the GM HEI control module stacks up when used for some of the higher performance vintage Mopar engines. I have a 426 with a cam that should allow me pull up to 6500 rpms. Unfortunately the standard Mopar distributor and blue box would falter at about 5900 RPM. I tried two different blue boxes with the same results. I eventually tried an FBO distributor and box and the problem went away. I’m wondering if the GM module would have held up to the higher rpms. I know it might have been my coil also because the FBO package came with a high performance coil and a jumper to eliminate the ballast resister. The FBO box and coil was about $250. The FBO box comes with a rev limiter so even if the GM module would have worked I have that built-in safety now. On another note, I still think you should treat yourself to that Hemi. Keep doing what you are doing. Great content. Thanks
I have never used an FBO box. They are neat looking, but at least one person has claimed that it’s an HEI module tucked into a nice metal box with an added rev limiter… I know the proprietor of FBO likes to bash HEI ignition, so I find this idea especially amusing. I can’t really speak to the high RPM performance and stability of the HEI module. All I can say is it has always done what I need - but for the most part, everything I play with is a warmed over stock Chrysler engine on the smaller end of the pack, and never sees the exciting side of 5,500 RPM. I also have a good bit of experience with MSD systems, and I really like them. Excellent, smooth performance - and easily tuned as far as timing curve. The good old 6A box is great - until it dies. Both of my nice cars came with MSD systems, and they work great. The one in the Demon slowly draws the battery dead though. I don’t like the cost of the MSD system. This is why I gravitate toward the HEI module - good performance, very affordable, and compatible with the factory distributor.
your video is awesome!
Great video man! You got a new sub!
Thanks! Happy to do it! I’ll be making more diagnosis and guide videos soon!
I am new to your channel, and though I grew up riding in mostly Mopar products, I am a "Blue Oval" guy...That said... Our Factory points systems are almost identical, and even the factory electronic distributor pickups are very similar... As for the GM HEI conversion, I have done them your style (attached to a heat sink) and the whole Coil-in-cap unit, and we may not agree on the whole Coil-in-cap unit of conversion, (its not for everyone). IMO Duraspark leaves a LOT to be desired. - We both agree for a street machine a standard HEI style electronic ignition is usually more than sufficient. I *HATE* that on social media that as soon as Joe Blow asks for a "suggestion" for an electronic ignition on a street cruiser that ACCEL/MSD/Mallory/ETC are the *ONLY* way to go... Well in my YOUNGER days...I had a MSD on a "warmed up" Ford V8....well when I was 300 miles from home that MSD box decided it was time to $#1T the bed...Well had I been using a GM HEI I could have went to the Auto Parts Store and picked up a replacement...BUT because I had converted it to a very expensive and not available anywhere ignition system, my Ford had to come home on a flatbed... Lesson Learned - Though I buy Chinese HEI complete units, I take the china guts out and fill with OEM GM parts...and I actually carry a complete unit (except plug wires) as a spare in the trunk...Because...Well, its easier to drop a whole new unit in and troubleshoot the old one later!
Right. MSD boxes are great… until they aren’t. My Charger has one, and it runs sweet. No problems. My Demon has one, and it kills the battery if I forget to unhook the disconnect for a couple days… which I do often. I don’t like the big cap conversion distributor because it’s huge, and it looks wrong. Also, extra expense. The factory Mopar (or Ford) unit hooked to the HEI module just works great. I know a heat sink is recommended, but I have never used them, and I have very rarely had a module fail. Like, twice ever on a vehicle I’ve converted.
@@DeadDodgeGarage The coil in cap HEI "looks" never bothered me...The price for the DUI ones did, I had so many issues with Duraspark that I converted to points for a while because I could not afford the DUI units, and had not explored the four (and 5 pin retard) GM HEI module conversion...
Thank you
Mallory, Bluepoint, dual point distributor for me every time.
Thanks!
I felt personally attacked when you said “maybe a rotten old dart”
😅 it was mostly intended to be self referential. Mostly
the hei module has two connectors on the distributor side, my vehicle runs better when the red ,(reddish) wire is connected to the small terminal,(lower0, and the black wire to the big terminal,(upper) I used a two pin gm style weatherpack to connect the distributor to the module. Thanks for the fix@!!!
I seriously wire it backwards on the first try every. Single. Time. And I’ve done this 20-30 times 😅 you bet!
Thanks for the video. I would have loved to see more (perhaps one of your circuit diagrams) about the twin ballast systems. and at 8:56 and 9:45 a practical demonstration of the testing would have been really cool (due to language differences, I had to rewind those 2 sections about 5 time before understanding what to do... watching you do it, would have meant 1 viewing. But thanks again.
Apologies, I didn’t have a car handy. The dual ballast powers an extra circuit in the five pin ignition module.
@@DeadDodgeGarage Thanks for the reply, Is that so that the electronic ignition module also runs at a lower voltage? To prolong it's life? or so that the output to the coil (trigger?) is at a lower voltage (to safe guard the coil)? Why it one side (Module side) at 5 Ohm and the other (Coil) at 1.5 Ohm?
Great video . Yup, and when that module REALLY goes that goop it is sealed with is a bitch to clean up . At least I got paid when I started scraping , there was a 1974 penny left under my windshield washer tank from when my Duster was built. 🤙🏼
Nice! In the rusty Scamp video I posted a couple weeks ago, there was a really good shot of the absolutely horrible goop. I think that module failing is actually what caused the car to be parked for 20 years… by the ocean… dang it.
Any chance you have a video for the chevy ignition set up for bench testing a chrysler motor?. I have a trigger switch hooked to my starter to fire her off but I'm having no luck on a full crank
I did an HEI conversion video - I use a Chrysler electronic distributor and a regular four pin GM module. Go check that out, hopefully it’s what you are after.
Loved the vid. Great, clearly explained detail. I do have one question. Does the HEI mod require a 12 Volt "key on" constant source to the positive side of the coil, or is the start/run combined source sufficient? Thanks. Subscribed.
Combine the two, eliminate the ballast resistor, and you’re good to go. The run source from key switch to the resistor is full 12 volts - or close to it, anyway.
@@DeadDodgeGarage( Oops! Your fans already asked and I just found your answers 👍 Very good. New Sub. ) TU, again. Can I keep my coil , jumper (short) IGN 1 and IGN 2 on same ballast post in series w old coil, and replace w HE?I. Or, do I need the performance c no matter what? Cheers;
Awesome video Sir. I do have a 1974 plymouth fury iii, 400cid v8 that sat for 6 years. The other day I decided to work on it and it started and ran for about 3 minutes, now it cranks but won't start. I did put a new carburator, ignition coil, spark plugs and ignition wires. At this point I don't know what's wrong with it. Any help is highly appreciated.
I believe I describe the tests for the Mopar electronic ignition module and distributor in this video. Refer to those tests and figure out which one failed. I’ll bet on module, but distributor / pickup isn’t uncommon either.
I want to try this I have a 73 Charger 318 I've had it not start before and then it starts and then I'll start I've heard a lot of check the ground make sure the module is grounded sometimes it loses groundworks bolted to the firewall was thinking about putting points distributor in it but I would rather do this thanks for posting hope this works
Good luck. If you have problems or questions, post another comment here (not as a reply - I never see those…) and I’ll help as well as I can. My ‘73 Challenger wouldn’t start when hot and it turned out to be a distributor problem. In my experience, the modules are either good, or they just don’t work at all. But with these steps it should be pretty easy to figure out what the issue is (when it isn’t starting, anyway.)
I'm on the issue of no spark at plugs I did the test spark it works. I did have to change the pick up coil it was bad only tested at 90 ohms new test good and it is gapped at .008 and the cap and rotor are new and were tested to make sure they work went over wiring everything seem to be good. This is a 84 chrysler fifth avenue had lean burn I deleted it changed carb distributor, and got a 4 pin mopar ignition box and 2 pin ballast resistor any help is appreciated.
Glad you didn’t ask me to help diagnose the lean burn. Haha.
1) test spark from coil wire near ground or with spark tester when turning key on and off, correct? This would suggest the module is good.
2) coil wire in same position, crank engine and watch - sparks or no sparks?
3) assuming no sparks, what is voltage at coil when cranking with key (not jumping starter relay)? And voltage to ignition module when cranking? This will likely require help to test. Curious if you could have it wired to a circuit that is only powered in run but not crank. I have not done this conversion and do not know the particulars of the lean burn power circuits, but assume it has similar - run and crank. Crank would go to coil +, and run goes to opposite side of ballast resistor so coil is powered through resistor.
4) if voltage at coil and module during crank is fine, I would pull distributor (or grab a spare if possible), then connect it, and with the key on and coil wire in checking position, spin the distributor. If it doesn’t make sparks, either the pickup isn’t working - even if it is new - or you have an issue in the distributor wiring.
I hope that helps. Let me know what you find out.
What should the resistance be In ohms on a 70s Chrysler distributor?
I don’t actually know that - but it should definitely change as you spin it and the reluctor teeth pass the pickup coil.
Could I change over to the GM control module and still keep my MSD pro billet ready to run distributor? I just spent $460 and change and although im tired of the issues involved with voltage regulators replacing a perfectly good and expensive part for some pie
You don’t need an external module with a ready to run distributor. They have a module built in.
Great video, nowadays there is no information on these dinosaur systems. You have made it easy. I am an ASE Mastertech and probably knew most of this once, but it has been quite a few years. I am going to try the HEI conversion. I found the four pin from a 1973 GM product
In the dual point distributor, are the two sets of points connected in series or in parallel? I had a single points in my slightly souped up 440, and it kept on frying the points. I now have a Petronix, and seems to be holding. Do you have any experience with the Petronix in terms of reliability?
Some. They have done well for me - but I’ve heard that some people have not had the same experience. As far as frying points, I have to wonder what kind of coil you were using.
The points are in parallel. Because they both ground out the coil, they both have to open for it to collapse and produce a spark. Because one set of points opens first and then closes first while the other is still open, the electrical load (and thereby the wear) is split between the two sets.
@@DeadDodgeGarage Thanks for the response. The first time the points fried I was using the standard small coil. The second time I had one of these big yellow coils, super something. I think that coil fried along with the points. The engine has a cam one or two steps above the stock HP, and I often rev it to 5K. I never had good consistent performance with the points, especially the last 500 rpm. The other 440 with a bit milder cam does fine with points. So, I was surprised and annoyed when the points crapped out twice. The "experts" wanted to sell me the expensive electronic distributors, but I went eith Petronix, much cheaper. The petronix is holding for my wild speed so far, and shows no signs of misfire above 4500 rpm.
It is kind of strange with the dual point distributor. If I was designing it, I would create two 4 lobe cams one on top of the other and have the points work independently, with two coils. So, you would have two four cylinder ignitions. 4 cylinder points run for ever because they work half as hard, and give strong spark because they have long dwell. This would have been the way to go with dual points, and I am surprised that no aftermarket manufacturer did that. I had seen a Ferrari 308 8 cylinder and it has two distributors. I think their V12s were the same.
Thanks bud
So, I have a 8388 MSD "Ready to Run" distributor that replaced the original points distributor. The MSD has a three plug connector running from the base of the distributor and the matching plug runs from the coil and ground. I'm assuming the ground causes the spark that triggers the coil and sparks the distributor. Other than the ground, it all seems internal and nothing is wired direct to the ballast resistor or voltage regulator. Additionally, it looks like the old blue distributor wire from the harness is/was being used to power the electric choke on the carb. I wired all this in 10 years ago with a friend and now I'm trying to understand it better in order to replace the old wiring with a new harness. Has my car been on the verge of burning down for the these last 10 years? Thanks!
MSD supplies a wiring diagram for the ready to run. You’re going to need to refer to that. Your ballast should have been bypassed, and the original coil wire should be powering your ready to run and a performance coil.
I have a n old wood chipper with a Chrysler 318 industrial engine and it will crank but won’t fire but then when I switch the ignition off it bumps over with a random spark. I think that after watching your video that I need to replace my distributor module. It’s an electronic system with the four-terminal ballast resistor.
That definitely sounds like a distributor issue to me!
I (We) fixed it! I started to remove the distributor and saw some wires taped up with electrical tape and remembered that they had been troublesome in the past. I re-twisted them and put fresh tape on them and put the distributor cap back on. Hit the starter and she fired right up! Now I think that I will go through the whole wiring system and solder it all together and put shrink tubing and liquid electrical tape on all the splices. Thanks for the near life-saving advice!
@DeadDodgeGarage Great video, but you never really said where you put the GM HEI module and what you do to keep it cool.. I had one mounted on an old run stand, but never under a hood.. Funny thing was, I only figured out I could use it out of necessity. My mopar ignition box was dead and it was after hours on a Sunday night..
Mount it anywhere. I didn't say that because it doesn't really matter. I screw it straight onto a steel panel wherever I can find a good spot. It's worked well for me so far... but it *should* be on an aluminum heat sink, ideally.
Exactly why I asked.. Keeping the temp down is huge. Just like all the others. What I like about these is their size. @@DeadDodgeGarage
thank you very much for your knowledge. i have inherited an 83 ramcharger and I'm working to restore it as its been sitting for nearly 20 years. I'm converting to HEI but i had a question. it is equipped with a dual pickup distributor. what do i do with he extra plug? do i use the two or three prong plug and leave the other attached to nothing? do i wire the HEI to both plugs? or will i have to switch to a single pickup dist? once this is installed can i just remove the factory ignition control module and associated wires safely? I want to remove as much unnecessary components as possible and simplify as much as much as possible. any input is appreciated. thanks again for covering niche topics and being thorough as I'm new to the "classic" car world and I'm trying to learn as much as i can.
according to forum post i found a commenter posted this, does it seem correct? "find the start/ run relay, (on the firewall, to the pass side of the steering col, has two connectors going to it, one has two wires, the other has three wires)unplug the 2 wire connector , then you will only be running on the run side of the distributor, you do not need to buy another dist."
Throw that distributor away. There is no advance curve, and no vacuum advance. It is useless for what you want to do. It *can* be made to run, but the lack of an advance curve for a street rig is not at all ideal. Get a standard 73+ electronic distributor.
Hello Jamie, My 70 Charger 383 died about a mile after doing a great burn out. Wouldn't start for about an hour, then roared to life. I've heard that the ECU (5pin in this case) don't like high revs. Could the high reving burnout cause the ECU to fail temporarily?
I don’t think that will be your issue. They don’t perform well at high RPM. Each of the various flavor modules has a different rev that it stops working at, and I couldn’t hope to quote them from memory. But I wouldn’t expect what you experienced. Any chance it was actually fuel related? I’m thinking it somehow ended up flooded with fuel. I feel like I’ve seen that happen - but immediately after the burnout ends. Anyway that’s an odd one.
@@DeadDodgeGarage Thanks for your response. I don't believe it's fuel related. When it died I took off the air cleaner and checked for fuel cause I thought could b either fuel or spark. It was squirting fuel with throttle input. I don't really recall the position of the choke plate, but I don't believe it was closed. I think it was open. must've tried cranking it several times and it just cranked and cranked. I don't think it was flooded. Have you ever seen the ECUs fail because of heat and then resume after cooling? Ive ordered two of them.
Can the HEI module work with points or do you need a magnetic inductive pickup? Also, with no ballast resistor illustrated, which ignition coil works with the HEI module? Do you have a Standard Motors part number for the HEI module?
Yes, the HEI can be triggered with points. There is a diagram online I have used for this. I use Accel performance canister coils as they are readily available and work without a resistor. They’re the cheapest in my area. Most other performance coils will also work fine for this. I don’t know the Standard number - I always give the application as a 1976 Chevy K1500. They’re the same four terminal module in many GM vehicles for many years.
Thank you for your quick response. Regarding the ignition coils, I believe the primary windings are 3.0 ohms, 1.5 ohms, 0.8 ohms. Which primary winding resistance coil is compatible with the HEI module?
That's the way I do it
Cool vid! Yeah, my stock duel point for my 70 Charger R/T was replaced by an Accel unit before I bought it in 83. I replaced that with a Hemi duel point w/ mechanical tach drive. When I could no longer get points for that, it was converted to Pertronix. It's been a good system! All those factory Hemi drag car pics we've grown up loving are also now converted (it's subtle).
Quick question: With the understanding that your drawings are basic; what disengages the starter when IGN 1 & IGN 2 are tied together for the HEI setup? OK, last question: where do you mount the the little HEI unit that is found inside the coil cover in stock GM applications?
The starter crank circuit is actually not the same circuit off of the ignition switch as IGN 2, so you’re fine there. If you tried to tie into the start circuit for your crank voltage, then yes you would have a problem with back feeding power to the starter. All you need to do is bridge the two sides of the ballast resistor, and then use the factory coil wire as your full time IGN 1/2 source.
Oh, and the HEI module can be mounted anywhere there is a good ground. Firewall, inner fender, wherever is convenient. Some people like to mount them to aluminum heat sinks, which are commercially available. I have never done this, and failures have been very rare. So I think that is extra.
I have found that the points every store sells now absolutely suck - except for NAPA. I would be surprised if points for your dual point distributor aren’t available today from some place or another! But there are other good options these days.
Will the HEI conversion work with a points distributor?
Yes. I have done this. There is a wiring diagram available online - I can’t remember what goes where. But it works!
Hello, my dodge 383 with mancini electronic distributor is going through coils, 3 in 2 1/2 years. They seem to over heat when excess cranking, trying to get oil pressure, not always. It started, ran for 4 minutes than died the last time the coil died, . I may put back the old distributor with dual points. Good idea? Please help me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks.
Huh. So, are these factory replacement coils? And you have a ballast resistor, yes? I know the Mancini distributor is basically a nice looking factory replacement piece, and I also know that there are thousands upon thousands of factory ignition systems running around that don’t have that issue, so I’m very interested in the particulars of your setup.
During cranking, the coil does get full battery voltage, but with starter draw it isn’t a whole lot more than resistor voltage, and also if you’re intentionally cranking the engine to get oil pressure I would expect you to be cranking it without ignition power.
Feel free to respond in another comment or I won’t see it - replies to comments don’t end up in my comment list. You can also email me at jamienoise@gmail.com. You can include pictures of your ignition setup and wiring - that might help me wrap my head around it.
2 years later, and here I am with a question! I have an 85 D150 with a 318 and that stupid ignition control box (maybe like lean burn?) mounted in the LF fenderwell. It's dead. My solution was to bypass that entire system and run a Mopar electronic ignition system upgrade kit with the distributor, ballast resistor, and orange control box. It worked, but then didn't. So, me being the smart guy that I am (LOL), I decided to eliminate the ballast resistor and install a regular old 12v coil, supplied with 12v power from the input side of the ballast resistor. Then it worked! My question is....will this setup kill the orange ignition control box eventually? The truck runs great now, but I have only had it running and driving for maybe an hour or 2 now. Thanks, Jamie, if you can answer this! If not, I get it, you probably don't go back and look at questions on your 2 year old videos! Anyway, love your vids, man! Always look forward to new uploads. Take care, man. And stay cool!
OK,
Electrical issues aren't my forte, but I usually manage to make repairs and revisions WITHOUT "letting the smoke out of it"!
I've got an '83 D150, slant six with the "Lean burn".
I was "all in" for doing the HEI revision. Watching TH-cam vids for instruction...until...I came across another well known Mopar guy's "confession". He said he "stopped doing these HEI conversions on old Mopars because their charging systems are inadequate to keep 12.6 volts at the HEI"
I'm not looking for performance, but I'm all about reliability and low maintenance. I'm strongly leaning towards going to Chysler's electronic/ECU/ ballast resistor...probably, eventually upgrading to FOB's 4secondsflat "made in USA" ECU and petronix's coil which allows jumping the resistor.
This stuff quickly gets over my head!
Questions:
If I do the Chrysler elect/ECU revision...do I HAVE to change the "2 pickup starter relay to another one for the single pickup distributor I have to get?
If so...how do I do the WIREING on it.
Have you experienced these charging system inadequacies mentioned with the HEI?
If so...what did you end up having to do to fix it?
I figure an experienced Mopar veteran like yourself,( who owns 11) would probably be the best person to ask!😁
You won my sub.
Thanks for any advice, because the Lean burn's got to go.
The short answer is no, I haven’t had issues with HEI and Chrysler charging systems. The longer answer is, I’ve seen a few HEI module failures, but usually I can swap it out once and it’s good to go - I haven’t seen repeated failures indicating systemic issues like one might expect there.
You will want to swap to the old school single pickup distributor with a vacuum advance for either conversion. It will be obvious how to wire it - two pickup wires from distributor and two pickup wires on the module. As long as they aren’t wired backwards you’re good to go.
My ‘82 slant six powered W150 (The Iron Goat II - featured in a couple videos so far) also had the lean burn deleted. They tried an Hei conversion but then removed it - I’m guessing they couldn’t get it wired right - and then they swapped to a poorly wired and worse adjusted points distributor. I haven’t decided how I’m going to fix it yet… I adjusted the points but it just isn’t happy - except sometimes it is. I’ll figure that out eventually - and you’ll see it on video here.
@@DeadDodgeGarageLord-willing, I'll be doing other things that have to be done on this poor truck, but brother....I'll be VERY happy to see this resolved!
I don't understand electrics, even when I think I do, and then there's the 39 yr old wireing, ( trying not to think about replacing the wireing harness ). Based on the options I told you, do you think the re's one system I mentioned that would be easier on the WIREING than another?
Your last point in your video ...
If your priority is NOT performance, then points or electronic/ ECU would be suitable...
That makes me lean toward the electronic/ECU.
The FOB/4seconds flat/USA made ECU is garaunteed for 5 yrs. It ain't cheap, and it replaces the factory coil w/ the hotter Petronics unit. I've read where there seems to be a lot of frustrated buyers of the various ECU replacements,( orange , blue....it doesn't seem to matter).
Does the GM HEI module have to be grounded same as the stock module?
Absolutely. Good ground for the HEI module is essential.
I had no power at the ballast resistor but I did at the key so I put 12V to the ballast resistor and it sparked and started smoking?
Huh. You’ve got a dead short to ground… you’re going to need to figure out where. And I really couldn’t tell you why it wasn’t smoking before. It probably should have been. It could have cooked the contact in the firewall connector, or there are other possibilities.
I had an HEI system on a 73 W200, but it toasted the distributor? Don't know why because I don't know much about that system. I'm sticking with the Dodge setup because I've never had any issues so far. Maybe a detailed video on the setup could help restore my faith;)
That’s interesting. I don’t know how it could do that. I’ve never had a problem… yet! I should do a detailed guide. It’s on my list.
@@DeadDodgeGarage In all honesty, I'll probably stick with the Mopar setup, but the video was great for tips on how to know what to look for when having issues with the electronic ignition! Thanks.
Hey so I’m working on my 86 with the electronic ignition, dude both tests, the module is charging the coil when key is at run, and then sparks when cranking as well. When I put straight power to the coil is the only time it starts up, through the resistor I cannot get spark all the way to the plugs
That’s… weird. Does it stay running once you remove the straight power wire? What voltage do you see at coil + when cranking?
@@DeadDodgeGarage I can’t tell anymore, doesn’t wanna start with the bypass
@@DeadDodgeGarage so, through the resistor the coil has spark, but after that the plugs do not receive spark
Could this be a weak coil? My thoughts are either that, or a distributor cap and rotor issue. Having spark straight from the coil but not from the plug ends of the wires can’t mean many other things.
Thanks how often does a ICM inside the distributor go bad?
The pickup? I’ve seen at least a handful bad, which is way looking for the “test spark” from the module is an essential diagnostic step.
I need to hook up a wire for electric fans and it is labeled ignition. It is the wire that allows power to the fans when the car is on and shuts off power when the car is off. I have a 74 Barracuda. Where would be the best place to connect it?
I am assuming that you are hooking up a fan control relay or thermostat assembly if it is pre-wired and labeled? The best place would be to find an extra unused circuit at the fuse box which is keyed ignition power - but this is only acceptable for low amp circuits. Your E body has the newer style fuse panel that secures to the firewall, and these often have plugs that are labeled for adding accessories. On an earlier car you would have to connect it to the back side of the fuse box. Alternatively, you could add it to the main ignition circuit that powers the ballast resistor, but I would prefer the first option.
If this is a heavy gauge wire going directly to the fan, it would need to be wired to a relay first.
@@DeadDodgeGarage I bought this car recently and my fuse box is under the dash. I was hoping for some connection in the engine compartment. would the positive on the ignition coil work?
I have question I have a 7 2 Chrysler Newport 400 engine standard points ignition on the distributor vacuum advance module there's an extra connection wire, what is this extra wire do
A wire? Not a vacuum hose? On a standard points distributor there should be just one wire.
@@DeadDodgeGarage there is a terminal on the side of the vacuum advance I think it changes the timing when you kick the air conditioner on
I bought a 1969 dodge d100 318.
It was switched to electronic ignition.
I want to switch it back to points.
Can I use the yellow coil that is on there now, use it when I switch to points?
Absolutely. I’m assuming it still has a ballast resistor - which you will need.
@@DeadDodgeGarage thanks, I'll look for a ballast resistor.
@Dead Dodge Garage it's on the upper firewall on the driver's side... Does this sound right.
@@bobc.5698 Sorry for the late response. I don't get notifications of comment replies. Yes, that sounds correct.
Hey if my electronic pickup is no good will the GM one fix it
The pickup in your distributor? That triggers the ignition box, so whatever ignition box you have, you need it to work.
What I am asking is will the GM control module fix my no spark problem if the one I have is no good
Super tec
I have an 84 w150 it will crank all day long but only fire when I release the key
Interesting. You’re missing the ignition 2 circuit at the coil - cranking ignition power. That comes from the ignition switch and goes through the firewall to coil positive. My instinct says it’s probably an ignition switch failure, but ideally you would test for power at every point in that circuit from the ignition switch out to the coil. I posted a no crank no start guide video that doesn’t exactly apply to your situation, but I do detail all of the relevant components so it may help.
My 77 Volare Roadrunner 318 will run beautifully for a while and die. Then I have to wait 15 - 20 minutes before it will run again, and runs great for a little and then dies again. In your opinion, what could that be? Thanks!
There are several possibilities there. Definitely sounds like a component heating up and dying, and while my first instinct would be ignition control module, I would recommend checking the coil for power when it won’t start before replacing it. You could pull your ignition control module and have it tested, but by the time you get to your local O’Reilly it’ll probably be cooled down enough to pass the test. A ballast resistor could cause something similar, but in that case it would start and die when you release the key from the crank position. A connection heating up in the under dash connector could do it too - this is why I would recommend checking the coil for power first.
Check for a loose connection at your firewall a lot of times on old cars both will get rusted and corroded and have intermittent fire
must be a genisus thanks will be back
Stupid old Mopars do not put power to the coil when the key is in the start position. Takes a while to make them start. I added a relay to serve as the "IGN 2" you describe and the thing fires in less than a single rotation.
They do - except when they don’t… I have had several cars that didn’t power IGN 2 correctly. My current Barracuda project is one of them. Sometimes it fires right off. Sometimes it takes ages. The relay solution is a good one!
Voltage regulator and control module (orange box) are two different parts? How do they differ in function and where does the Voltage regulator fit in this demonstration? 🤔
p.s. I'm not a car builder, just an owner.
Yes. Two completely different parts. The voltage regulator doesn’t fit into this demonstration at all because it is a component of the charging system. If you are curious about where it lives in the larger electrical system and how it works, feel free to check out my charging system video. Lots of good information there.
@@DeadDodgeGarage
Very good 👍 Thanks for your follow-up. I will check that out.
On the electric faz, what if you have nether spark or crank?
So now what??
You did this once before, but that was not my truck, therefor your dart fix will not work on mine.
I don’t know what truck you’ve got, but my best video on the subject is my No Crank, No Start video.
They got modules and distributors and col's
Well… yeah. And ballast resistors.
I have an hei distributor can I run fuel injection also 88 dodge
You can run one of those bolt on aftermarket systems if that’s what you have in mind. You should just need to use the tach signal connection to give it an RPM input. If you mean a factory type fuel injection system, not so much.
I was getting spark now I ain't getting any
Don't you have a no spark video
@@chrisdunivant8960 I have this video and a no crank video. I give various ways to check spark in this one. I need more details to understand what you've got going on.
Pretty informative. Auto wiring is my weakest skill.
The same is true for many, many people. I don’t know how I lucked into understanding it but I’m here to help.
@@DeadDodgeGarage Right on 👍🏼 I think I've got everything ironed out now unless something breaks down. Now I have a Sniper so things got a little more interesting
That's how I clean my bench after someone uses my stall on my day off, except I might have brushed everything into the trash can.
I won’t lie and say none of that was my mess… but most of it wasn’t, and it hadn’t been that long since I cleaned the bench last. It became a floor mess, which ended up being future Jamie’s problem. This is usually the way of things.
“DON’T YOU EVER CALL HERE AGAIN “
🤣 my partner Jorden used to say that every time he hung up the phone
Sparky sparky every 45 degrees, or perhaps 60 degrees is how they work.
Zap!
Men I need a distributor for Plymouth plaza 1957 v8
Have you tried ebay? There has to be one out there somewhere. Definitely don’t have one in my collection.
There was so much hype over those blasphemous MP Orange boxes in the nineties. They were advertised in every Mopar magazine. It's like most people just replaced what they had to replace it, even if it wasn't broke, "because performance gains!" only to see it fail soon afterwards.
Totally. They were hyped to the point that instead of saying “factory Mopar electronic ignition,” people say “orange box.” At this point I just junk all that and install an HEI. It’s ok to admit that the other guys have the goods there.
Mopar
1:47 😳🤓hehe
And I mean it
I like rotten old Darts.