Classic Mopar Charging Systems: How They Work, and How To Diagnose Failures
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ธ.ค. 2021
- A somewhat detailed explanation of the function of the classic Mopar alternator, voltage regulator, and related components and circuits. If you’re having trouble getting your Mopar muscle car or Dodge truck to charge the battery, this video will give you several ideas to help figure out your issue.
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Thank you for the content. It really helped me with my no-start issue diagnostics. Really dug the drawings, gave me a chance to refresh my memory.
Right on Jamie Attwood! Thank you for doing this!
Very cool that you used a B series Van in this video! A multimeter is a MUST with diagnosing these old vehicles. That goes for all brands of this vintage.
And an A series van! In which of course the regulator is found under the dash. In a future video I plan to get my four Dodge vans together for a little van history. I have every flavor represented from the A van to the Ram van of the 90s. Absolutely agreed - anyone playing with cars should have a multimeter, and learn to use it.
I remember hearing you say something like when a Mopar has a charging problem, it's almost always the voltage regulator. The voltmeter in my 69 Satellite started showing a steady 11.5V last weekend. Sure enough, after watching this video and doing some testing... it was the voltage regulator! I got a cheap unit from the local parts store and it's back to 14.5V. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Awesome! I think my usual line is “it’s *always* the voltage regulator… except when it isn’t.”
This information is invaluable Jamey! Thank you for sharing all this information so the Mopar faithful can reference this when needed…and believe me, WE WILL NEED IT-it’s only a matter of time 😂!
Thanks again brother
Extremely helpful thanks for what you do!
exactly what i needed to know. thank you so much!
Excellent video, great information. Thanks
Man I LOVE your videos!
Dude you are incredible!!! I am trying to learn my mopar and this is huge info! I need help!
I’m here to help! If you haven’t already seen them I do have a couple other videos on electrical subjects.
Thank you. Great information.
Defently a helpful video, wish i would have had this info a couple years ago, my voltage regulator failed on me when i was driving and was able to limp it to the parts store and they luckily had 1 in stock, had the same thing happen with the alternator too lost all charging while driving, also found out that the reman oriellys alterantors suck, im on my 4th alternator because the bearings failed leading to horrible noise, but life time warranty, im trying to work out a issues on my 72 dart, i just installed a couple aftermarket gauges, temp, tac and voltage with a couple cigarette lighters and found im getting around 14.9 to 15.5 volts and sometimes will drop to 12.9 to about 13.9 sometimes, i know my idle is a little low i need to turn the curb idle up but i was at 11.9 sitting in a drive thru with lights and all the other things running and left the drive through and the turn signals wouldnt blink unless i gave it some gas got up to speed and everything went back to normal till i got to the next light, thanks for the info going to be trying some diag on it, been putting alot of work into the 318 lately, fresh head gaksets, new intake, new valve covers, dropped a edelbrock 650 on it instead of the stock 2BBl, been alot of fun
Thanks for walking us through this episode, absolutely good info, I got a 78 b100 with multiple VR floating around in the spare parts bin. I think the previous owner was having this issue. For now everything works great charges a little high at 14-15 but nothing is hot yet....
Thanks again! Rock'n Roll
♣️🏁🏴
14-15 is a hair high but probably fiiiine. You bet!
Great info. Thank you!
Thanks! The 2 pin connector overvoltage fix worked for me. Was getting 15.5v and i threw a parts canon at it to try and fix it. I wish i found this video earlier.
Been there, done that - at least twice. Glad you got it!
@@DeadDodgeGarage 74 d100 club cab 318. Re-sealing a couple of drip rails this weekend and helping with my buddies cummins swap in his 74 w200 4 door short bed. Hey, what is a good number to shoot for with total timing? Im in denver with a carter bbd and tuning is a struggle!
@@christhomasfilms Sounds awesome! I actually own a '73 crew cab short W200 myself. Total timing on a stockish engine probably needs to be 32-34 degrees. If your engine is stock, I would set base timing at what the sticker says, and maybe add a couple extra degrees for flavor. I'm at sea level and don't have to deal with the store of struggle you probably are...
@@DeadDodgeGarage❤
Awesome. Explained in layman terms I can even understand. No power to my V/R
Thank you. Very helpfull video.
New subscriber! Just found this channel, And I love it! I'm a Mopar girl pride n true... My daily is a 65 Fury, and my current project is my drwam car, a 65 Barracuda!
Thank you. Very helpful.
Fixed it thanks for the help
Great video!
Thanks for the Info.I believe my problem is in the Guage.
Pretty common issue. If you want more info on that circuit I did another video about no starts, where I go into more depth about it.
Niiiice, Thanks for this Video!
You magnificent bastard. Thanks boss, you just fixed my motorhome and saved the Spring Bear hunt.
Outstanding! Happy to help. Haha.
Thanks!
Great video. Any recommendations on gauge and connectors for the shunt wire?
I’m really not good at wire sizes for some reason. I think I usually use something like eight gauge. Similar size to the factory charge wire is fine, or a size larger.
Subscribed !
Many thanks for a great video. I've got a Mopar charging problem I hope you can help me with. I'm having alternator problems on a 1974 Jensen interceptor. These cars came equipped with 440 Dodge running gear. The problem started when I was losing battery voltage To correct the problem I purchased 100 amp rebuilt alternator for 440 Dodge. I followed your advice on troubleshooting by doing the following. I) confirmed my v regulator was well grounded, 2 )I confirmed that my ignition switch is powering the voltage regulator. At rest the battery is 12.70V. The alternator is producing the following V's when disconnected from the system, idle 10.5 to 11.9V . 1000 rpm 14.6 to 15.6, 1500 rpm 18.9 to 19.2V. Once I connected the alt to the system with a shunt from alt to battery the voltage at idle 12.35V, . 1000 rpm 12.36, 1500 rpm 12.6V, 2000 rpm 13.5V. What can I do to increase the volts at idle and 1000 rpm.
I have seen some factory charging systems that do very little at idle like that. I am wondering what the pulleys look like. A larger pulley on the alternator, or small drive pulley on the crank could lead to the alternator spinning slowly and not producing enough charge at idle. It is obvious that your regulator is at least partially functioning, or you would have no charge at all. The high numbers measured at the alternator when it is disconnected don’t concern me. But I would have liked to have a voltage reading at 3,000 RPM or even higher to verify the regular’s function with your shunt wire in place. I would want to verify the voltage signal that the regulator is seeing (it should be very close to battery voltage,) and I would want to verify that you have a good body ground (or grounds) in place on the engine.
Excellent video and channel! Lol and "With the battery disconnected!!" Good stuff bud...lol
I’m guessing you can tell I learned that one from experience 🤣
I had a voltage regulator die on my 77 Dodge van. It never charged like I wanted it to. I found a massive 65 amp alternator, put out a solid 50 amps.
I've had earlier model Chrysler products... and had electrical problems... headlights going off and on...lots of stuff.
Then you had to hear that one of a kind starter.
Great content love the video was wondering if you recommend putting an inline fuse in that shunt line what would be the recommended gauge wire to handle that load thanks for all your information
I have installed many shunt wires without, but have realized as time goes on that I really should be using and recommending an inline fuse, or an additional fusible link. Without one, a short in the alternator is going to become a fire. You want 8 gauge wire, and a heavy duty fuse holder with a 60 amp fuse should cover the load, but you may need to go for 80-100 depending on which alternator you have.
@@DeadDodgeGarage thanks a lot I did end up putting a fusible Link in it thanks for all your help
Just my opinion: The "1 wire alternator" is not the only option. The best option by far, in my experience, is a GM 10Si internally regulated 3-wire alternator. These work way better than any 1-wire or externally regulated unit. The circuit is very simple with a diode and dummy light. You can bypass or include your stock ammeter. I prefer to bypass the ammeter and use a power buss with a master charge fuse. I've made this conversion on several oldies including a 1947 Dodge pickup with the flathead 6. Still running great.
You can take “1 wire alternator” to mean any modern style alternator that doesn’t belong there. I use them exclusively for 12 volt conversions in older vehicles, where nothing else would ever be correct anyway. But this video exists to explain to people that they don’t need to rip out perfectly serviceable parts simply because they don’t understand how they work.
But then you have a gm alternator 🤮 keep your mopar all mopar, they work just fine if need just use a dual feild unit or even the late 1980s 120 alternators
@@fifthlomat717 Yes, a stock mopar squareback alternator will do fine if you include the external transistor regulator. The point of my comment, though, was that 1-Wire-Alternators are very popular, but they don't work very well. So many people buy these because they think it's a simpler solution and an upgrade. They are expensive, and they are not what you think it is. I always say that a stock internally regulated alternator is cheaper and works WAY better. You simply have to learn how to correctly wire it. As far as the mopar thing goes, I'm not in the cult. I fix all kinds of cars.
Thanks for all the information. You're videos are helping a lot on my 78' w150 project. Question about the shunt wire though. My wires are fried behind the dash. Should I through a fusible link in there along with the shunt wire, or wire them together? Looking for a safe, non firey repair. Thanks again for the all the infiemation.
I don’t quite understand what you mean. Amp gauge wires are fried? Even with the shunt wire in place in the engine compartment, you still need those wires to power everything else inside the truck. They can be wired together to bypass the amp gauge if you want to do that, or if it is bad, but you still need those wires. So if they are cooked, you’re going to want to replace the cooked sections. Also, if they got hot and melted, that would have been caused by a short - most likely in the alternator. Hopefully you have already fixed that.
Thank you. At some point in the past, someone connected both wires to one terminal post on the back of the gauge. They were heavily corroded and the plastic jacketing had gotten hot enough to melt. Probably due to the corrosion. Thank you for your time.
Good info. But I added the wire from the alternater, to the pos starter.
Yep, on my Charger it actually goes to the starter relay. Functionally the same, it’s just a quick run to battery through that heavy gauge wire.
Tangentially related: have you encountered many cracked alternator housings in your experience? I had a number of odd electrical symptoms (including stalling, which required opening the battery disconnect to recover from) in my '96 B3500. Overall system voltages were good (checked while idling in the driveway), but while troubleshooting the problems, I noted a cracked alternator housing. On the principle of "fix what you can see", I changed it out for a new one, and virtually all of the observed electrical symptoms disappeared. Once I had the old one out, I noted the cracks extended all the way around the housing, so the stator may actually have been adrift.
Huh. No that’s a new one on me. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one cracked. Very interesting. Incidentally, I’m currently chasing down electrical gremlins in a 96 Ford van. I wish I wasn’t
@@DeadDodgeGarage I grok, I'm good with electrics, but I don't like to dig too deep without a schematic. Tracing circuits hand-over-hand in cramped quarters gets tiring quickly. I did find a few people talking about alternator cracks on the old forums, so I guess the problem isn't unknown. Maybe worth investigating if you have weird electrical symptoms only when the vehicle is in motion.
you had me at "Mopar Wiring VooDoo".
I've been looking for help on my '76 Dodge Fireball 22 ft RV with a 440. I'm getting barely any charge, amp gauge reads slightly negative when running. If I turn on any accessories while idling, it starts draining the battery and the amp gauge goes further south. We checked battery with multimeter, it shows it's VERY slowly charging when all accessories are off but the amp gauge still reads slightly negative....strange. I'll check my voltage regulator and add a shunt wire as you've shown in the video as a start, thank you!
I'm not sure where the "converter" or "battery isolator" is, I'm not even sure if I have either to charge the house battery. I hear most of these old dodge class C's have one. The house battery is shot. Replacing that tomorrow and then figuring out what wires were cut behind the house battery and fuses.
Definitely start with regulator tests, power to battery and check voltage on alternator output stud. This just happened on my 79 stepside, and it was the voltage regulator.
It also good to know that the regulator supplies voltage from the ignition to the field on the green wire. Some regulator,(not Mopar) ground the field! But Mopar supplies voltage to the field wire
On the single field alternator, it is a voltage signal on the green wire. On the dual field, it’s voltage on the blue wire, and a varied ground signal on the green wire. So they got with it.
3 questions - 1). Shunt wire... Looking at doing this modification. In your Nov. 19th live you mention it along with adding a fuse. If you have a 100amp Alternator, I'm thinking that a 4awg cable is needed (2awg preferred for headroom), with a 100amp fuse. Is this correct? 2) any thoughts of using a 100 amp circuit breaker vs a fuse? 3) If you put in the shunt wire and the fuse blows or breaker flips that would put all current through the factory 10awg (might be 12awg) wire to the firewall... Is it then preferred to put a 45amp fuse on the lead wire to the firewall? Thank you in advance. Sorry if you covered this in a different video...
I really haven’t covered it yet, so it’s all good. I am fairly certain that the factory charge wire is 8 gauge, and I have generally used 8 gauge for the shunt wire. In theory, half of the charge will go through the shunt wire, and half of the charge will go through the original circuit. In practice that won’t be exact due to the resistance through the original charging circuit. It’s a very rare day that your 100 amp alternator ever puts out 100 amps. While it’s true that 8 gauge technically isn’t up to the task of carrying a 100 amp load, it essentially never will. A breaker *should* work fine, but breakers also reset. This is a fuse/breaker that is only ever likely to blow if there is a dead short to ground, and in a case like that, I think I’d like it to blow and stay blown. So I like to use a heavy fuse in a solid mounted holder. Protecting the factory charge circuit with a fuse is also a fine idea. Deleting the amp gauge entirely is a fine idea too. I don’t take these steps. I prefer to leave the factory circuit intact, and add my own. It seems to work very well. I also hedge my bets and unplug the batteries in my classics at night, though. If a short in the alternator ever develops, at least it won’t take my car while I am sleeping.
What do you recommend for replacing the bulkhead connector firewall block with? Its a 73 B300.
There really aren’t many great options but repairing what you have with new contacts and lengths of wire, or a new plastic from a junkyard van if it’s totally fried. The metal contacts can be removed with a de-pinning tool (I use a very small flathead screwdriver.) I don’t think replacements will ever be commercially available for those. But the Chrysler style male and female crimp connectors that lock into those plastics are available, so you can repair what you’ve got.
hi man , thanks for the video , i have a 1973 dodge Charger and few hours ago a took it for a ride and suddenly the car shut off and i saw a smoke coming out from underneath the dashboard . i opened the hood removed battery while the fusbile link wire was on fire ( i put it out fast ) the question is what can cause this . ( N.b : the alternator gauge pins was connected together 3 years ago so i don;t have a working alternator gauge ) . thanks for the help
The interesting thing is, if you read advice on the internet, everyone says the alternator gauge is a fire hazard. It’s not - everything attached to it is. You most likely have a dead short somewhere, and the most likely culprit is the alternator itself. I just had this happen in a fresh reman alternator that had driven 350 miles. Luckily it got me home before it decided to explode into pieces. The fusible link’s job is to blow before the rest of the car burns to the ground. So it did its job - that’s the good news. You will obviously need a new fusible link. I would pull the alternator and have it checked and/or tested. If it looks good then the short is elsewhere. The alternator charge wire would also be a good thing to inspect. In theory, a dead short anywhere in the electrical system can cause that, but most of the circuits have fuses for individual circuit protection. The other two that don’t are the headlights and the ignition, so if there is no problem with alternator, that’s where you need to look next.
on a dif note… would a battery that’s “ past it “ have any effect on how well the car runs? i have a crappy battery that will start the car(70 roadrunner w 440)after a few minutes of one on one w the battery charger.. however the car consistently runs poorly and mis fires.. many have said that the battery is out of the loop after the car is started and others say that the battery will def effect performance… i thought i’d ask you for the official and final word on this issue.. hope to hear from you soon!!! thanks for all the great vids!!!!
Well, the official and final word is… maybe. Haha. What really can have an effect is the voltage the ignition gets, and I suppose if your battery is so shot that the system voltage is much lower than it should be, but high enough to stay running, it’s possible. I’m assuming the car won’t start again after running and charging the battery for 15-20 minutes? In that case I would say it’s possible. Generally speaking, I would say no. The charging system should have enough output to maintain a high enough voltage that this is a non issue. If the voltage measured at the battery while the car is running is 13-14.5 volts, that probably isn’t it. But it sounds like you should buy a battery anyway.
Thank you for these videos. They are great. I’m replacing the bulkhead connector and engine wiring harness on my 64 Belvedere, back to stock, ditching the msd and hacked wiring job they did to bypass the ammeter and add a stereo. In an attempt to have a “better than stock” system, I plan to reconnect the ammeter, but add your suggested shunt wire from the alternator to the battery. Also, 64’s did not have a fusible link in the system, where would I add it correctly? Next, is there a later model Chrysler alternator that puts out a little more amperage at idle that you know of? I’d like to get this dialed in. I’m also switching back to stock mopar electronic ignition. I’ve heard I’ll need to switch to solid state voltsge regulator, Is this so. Sorry, lots of info for a comment, wish I could email you or something. Appreciate you page. I’m subscribed! Thank you.
Feel free to email. Jamienoise@gmail.com. My response will be three times as long. Haha.
Hey Tom, as a fellow MOPAR gearhead, it is highly recommended that the old analog voltage reg. be replaced/upgraded to the electronic reg. when changing to electronic ignition. ( Chrysler recommendation! ).
@@stevehamilton9418 Mopar Performance used to sell a conversion constant voltage electronic regulator for switching to electronic ignition that was made for the older single field alternators. The problem was, they didn't sell the electronic regular connector, separate from a wiring harness. You could clip one from a junkyard car though. Mopar quit selling the single field constant voltage regulator. The two field alternators came with constant voltage electronic regulators, but can be used in a single alternator system by grounding one field on the alternator. That just requires a short wire from one field to the alternator body or bracket and hook up the other field just as a single field alternator. The non-chrome box ignition modules blow pretty easily, especially now with their Chinese electronics. The chrome box ignition module is much tougher and can stand greater voltage variations, without burning out.
I’m having an overcharging situation. I’ve replaced both the voltage regulator and connector. Amongst other things. Any ideas? I can give more details if needed.
Details would be great. Shoot me an email at jamienoise@gmail.com
Got some trouble shooting to do. Does it matter which fld tab is grounded?
Old style regulator with a newer alternator.
OK I only have .8 volts at ignition side of early regulator. Fixed that but still the alternator only shows battery voltage at the post even with a negative jumper to the battery. Believing the one year old alternator is crap.
It shouldn’t matter which is grounded. The early style regulator changes voltage at the brush it is connected to - what are you seeing there when running? I’ll say again… it’s almost never the alternator, in my experience. But hey, sometimes it is. If you’re getting a voltage reading at the brush and no charging, you could pull the alternator and have it tested. Maybe you have a warranty? Haha.
Starting this playlist over today. I have been working on nursing a w150 back together for chores and found my np435 has a cracked bellhousing.....sigh... If it will it will or more likely probably already did and needs fixed.
Ouch. That sounds fun…
@@DeadDodgeGarage ya not sure what to do. friend suggests braising it. I doubt ill find another housing easily
1982 D150 Having a grossly overcharging issues. To the point has melted a lot of the wiring! From 15 to 45 volts! Is frying both alternator & Regulators! & wiring & fusible links! Any suggestions appreciated!
45 volts?! Holy crap! I didn’t know that was possible. I have never seen higher than about 18. Although I suppose when I have seen as high as 18, I’ve stopped. I believe in this video I described the overcharging issues I have seen. Incidentally, I have only seen it on trucks of the same era as yours. Basically, a poor connection in the voltage regulator connector causes the regulator to gradually crank the alternator output to full kill. When I learned about this issue, I had tried six different new voltage regulators. All gave the same result and overcharged. But the one decades old regulator off of a random truck out back worked perfectly. I believe this is down to a slightly different pin design on the regulators available now. The next time I saw this issue, I went right for the old faithful regulator and it again worked perfectly. In both cases, I replaced the voltage regulator connector with a new one from the parts store and all was well. I hope this fixes your problem too.
Ptoblem is in the PACKARD factory bulkhead plugs.. They arent tight. Air gap makes excessive current draw MELTING THE BLACK wire. I just wrote a repair manual on that problem and how to easily fix it.
Retension them with a pick?
I have a 91 dodge van b250. when I start the vehicle it climbs to 19v within 10 seconds. tested/verified on a secondary voltage reader.
From the info in the video, most likely a bad ground at the alternator?
thanks, much appreciated.
Voltage regulator is commanding alternator to full charge. The climb to that voltage is the telltale sign. I’ve seen this problem several times on trucks (as I mention in the video) and every time it has come down to a regulator failure, or a bad connection at the regulator. Unfortunately, on your ‘91 van, the regulator is built into the PCM (engine computer.) This is also a fairly common failure. You will either have to replace your PCM, or retrofit a classic style voltage regulator from a 70s-80s vehicle onto your van. I have seen good instructions for this online - it’s relatively simple to do.
Hi Dead Dodge Garage I have a 1974 Challenger 318 engine. Last year my ammeter would charge sometimes and then sometimes dis-charge. The car had the original alternator, so I bought a re-man one at a local parts store. That
did not fix the problem, so I bought a new electronic voltage regulator (from Classic Industries) with all the correct factory markings. Now the ammeter is reading over charge all the time. Any ideas where to look for the problem?
When you say overcharge, do you mean all the way to the right of the gauge? Or slightly above center? Slightly above center would be a typical reading. If it’s reading way overcharge (like at the top of the gauge) then refer to the section where I talk about the connection at the voltage regulator. I have seen overcharging caused by a poor connection there. Now that you’ve watched this video, you probably know my saying with these Chrysler products - it’s never the alternator (except when it is… but that’s another story.)
Hi again DDG, I tried adding a bypass wire from my alternator directly to my battery and it worked! The problem now is the amperage is too high and the battery's voltage goes way past 12 volts. Is there anything I can do to counteract this?
How far past? Ideally you should see somewhere around 13-13.5 volts at idle, and no higher than 14.5ish volts when the engine is revved up. If you are getting massive overcharging (battery voltage slowly creeps up to like 18 volts) then you could have a poor connection at your voltage regulator. I have had to replace those plugs a few times. If you are seeing no higher than 15 volts… you’re probably fine. Remember this is a “nominal” 12 volt system, which means in name only. Your battery should sit around 12.6 when the car is off and any surface charge has been removed, for example. It’s not exactly 12.
The car is a 1969 Charger 440 Magnum. It has a direct connection electronic ignition. I did switch out both the orange ecu module and the voltage regulator with known good units but it still shuts off. How do I test the distributor to see if that’s bad? I’ll go over all the connections i the engine bay again.
First thing to do - get it warm to the point that it dies and won’t start. This is when you need to do your testing, so be ready with a multimeter or similar. When it won’t start, I want to know what voltage you see at coil + with key on. Voltage here will rule out ballast resistor (although you didn’t say starts and dies, so I don’t think this is resistor related,) ignition switch, connector under dash/column, and firewall connector. Since you have a Mopar electronic ignition system, there is an easy test to do. I have actually done a video on ignition systems, and I’ve only just realized that you aren’t commenting on that one - so maybe you haven’t seen it. Go check it out if you like, but the test is as follows:
Disconnect coil wire from distributor cap end and set close to (but not touching) a good ground - intake bolt, valve cover bolt, alternator body, etc.
Have an assistant turn the key from off the run /or/ put the key in the run position and disconnect, then reconnect the battery.
Watch for a test spark. Every time power is /removed/ (meaning key turned off, or battery unhooked,) you should get one spark from the coil. If you do, then the module is working, and getting power. If you do not, the module is bad or poorly grounded, the coil is bad, or you aren’t getting power.
In my experience, bad coils are very rare - so that’s usually the last place I look. If you suspect your coil is bad, there is a resistance test you can do.
If you do get a test spark, proceed to cranking the engine while watching the coil wire. You can have an assistant do this, or jump the starter relay in the engine compartment with a screwdriver or similar. If you don’t see any spark while the engine is cranking (after getting a test spark from module) then your distributor pickup is almost certainly bad (or possibly way out of adjustment,) and while you could monkey with changing the pickup, I usually just go for a new distributor. If you have the Direct Connection cast iron distributor, you may not want to crap can that. Rebuild time.
Let me know if you have more questions.
Would you suggest purchasing the 2 pin connector with lead wires to go with an aftermarket regulator? I am having the overcharging issue on my '85 B250. Thanks
My experience with overcharging with a shiny new regulator and all else good has most often come down to that regulator connector. There are other possibilities, but that is going to be the most likely.
@@DeadDodgeGarage great thank you for the response!
Should I add a fuse or a diode in the shunt wire ? #68 dart slant 6
Fuse! Big one.
I am having a problem of a different sort. After sitting the better part of two years because of the pandemic I have discovered my Dodge Charger starts great but once it’s hot it starts to run rough and backfires and shut off and won’t restart until it cools down.I’ve cleaned the grounds in the engine compartment checked my connections there could it be a5 5he bulkhead connector?
Sounds like an ignition issue. Control module, or maybe distributor. What year car, and what type of ignition? Feel free to respond by posting another comment - I likely won’t see a reply here.
I have a 2019 Dodge Grand Caravan, 81,784 Miles on it and driven daily for about 20 miles both ways sometimes a bit more miles.
I notice when I bought the vehicle then 4,920 miles on it the front headlights flicker all the time while the engine is running but the minute, I turn off the engine, the flickering stops, the headlights are on strong, no issues with battery or electronics in the van, but just the headlights flickering during the running of the engine.
I have the 2019 Dodge Grand caravan with the 3.6 Pentastar VVT flex fuel. SXT.
Huh. That’s shouldn’t do that. I suspect an alternator issue, but there are a few other possibilities involving wiring. It seems really unlikely that you would have had a wiring problem at 5,000 miles…
What size wire should be used to bypass ammeter, from output of alternator to positive at battery?
I think I usually use 8 gauge.
Hey do you have a video on the magical box on the breather in late70's and 80's dodges? I bought a 78 aspen for 200.00 that had been sitting up for10 years and all i had to do was fresh gas and a new box and drove it away the previous owner was pissed!
I haven’t done an actual lean burn video yet. I did convert my ‘79 Chrysler 300 from lean burn to a Pertronix ignition in my first video on it, and later replaced the electronic feedback carb as well.
So I have a 64 chrysler newport that cranks and is getting fuel and wants to start but won't. I'm wondering if its possibly the voltage regulator that do to the smoke and really bad smell I'm sure is dead.. I could really use some help right about now.
I hate to say it, but follow the smell… if the voltage regulator let the smoke out then it’s definitely bad. Have to wonder if maybe it’s wired wrong? It is on that same ignition circuit and could probably pull the voltage down far enough to not run. But at that point I’d kind of expect the wiring to be turning into smoke too…
Great video, I want to add a shunt wire to my 69 Charger. I read a couple different ways and would like to know the best way of doing it. 1st was to run an 8 to 10 gauge wire from the alternator to ammeter ( black wire) and another wire from the starter relay where the fusible link is at to ammeter ( red wire ) . 2nd was to run a wire from the alternator to the starter relay where the fusible link is at ( supposedly that's what Chrysler did to fix this issue and that's what Chrysler did to fleet & police vehicles) Finally the way you mentioned in this video, alternator to battery. Pros and Cons?
Someone else has asked me about this same set of instructions. The reason for step 1 is to eliminate the firewall connector as a potential issue completely. If your firewall connector is serviceable and you aren’t currently having charging problems, I would skip this step and just install the shunt wire. You already have these same circuits - they’re just going through the firewall connector. Adding the shunt wire will remove much of the load from the firewall circuits, and likely stave off any potential issues there for many years to come if the connections are good now. Yes, I say “battery positive,” but the large stud on the starter relay (where the fusible link comes from) is where I actually connect them because it looks better and makes for a clean installation. Because there is a heavy gauge wire directly connecting battery positive to that stud, it is perfectly acceptable and will do the same thing.
I did not realize Chrysler had used this is a fix for fleet vehicles. That’s very interesting. I learned about adding a shunt wire reading the instructions to install an American Auto Wire kit in a Triumph TR6. In the case of an upgraded alternator, they advised adding a wire that would jump around the factory charge gauge to remove excess load from it. I realized as I was doing this that Chrysler products have exactly the same system, and I could apply the same principle to them. Turns out some other folks on the internet had thought of that already. Haha. Many people recommend removing the amp gauge from the circuit all together. I like to have it there and working, and with much of the load taken off of it, I don’t think it’s the ‘fire hazard’ everyone commenting on posts in groups thinks it is.
@@DeadDodgeGarageI agree, I also like ammeter. I would like to keep it original. Thanks for all your help and thank you for all your videos. Very informative and funny at the same time.
See that you own a Dodge a100./108 also.
Nice!
I have a few too many the wife says. Ugh!
Anywho most were daily drivers for years until electrical problem. Parked it and drove another. Then same thing. I will get to it one day. Nope for I had the current daily driver working great andnywars went by. Now this one isnt charging and alternator passed test at local parts store.
But no output voltage and no volta going to vintage regulator.
Plus a friend been messing with wiring harness and my stereo with Amps and capacitors and but also rewired wires that he thought needed to be tied together one day whe. I left him alone.
I.tool off not knowing what he did and noticing regulator not connected? What the ??
Anywho...love your content. I hope I can figure this mess I have on my hands! Ugh!
Well, all I can say is… it’s basically never the alternator. Hope you can figure it out.
I just bought a 69 powerwagon
I have 12.4 volts at the alternator and at the batterh when running. Altemeter shows neutral to discharge reading. I replaced alternator and regulator without a fix. I have power with key on position at the regulator. If I add a jumper between regulator wires i get normal charging voltage. Where should i look next?
I’m assuming the voltage does not increase when you rev the engine? Low voltage only at idle is a pretty common issue. Otherwise, weirdly enough, it sounds like your new regulator is bad. That or it isn’t grounding through its mounting bolts as it should. By jumping voltage across it you did a “full field” test, and confirmed that the alternator and both of those circuits are good. The regulator in the middle is the only other possibility.
The purpose of the ammeter is not to “check the output of your charging system”, its purpose is to monitor battery charge/discharge rate only. All vehicle loads are not routed through the ammeter while in operation. Only when the engine is not running will the ammeter and related connections be subject to full system loads. Engine running, fully charged battery, there will be little to no current through the ammeter, needle centered. What kills bulkhead connections and ammeter insulators on these, as original charging systems, is mis-placed added loads at the battery. Any loads added at the battery pulls all it’s current across all of the charging circuit components and connections from the alternator, as the alternator is the power source while the charging system is in operation. It’s that added current that melts down terminals and insulators, places entire circuit well outside of its original design limits. All factory loads are handled on the alternator side of the ammeter. On an ammeter-based charging system such as this, there can be no added loads on the battery side of the ammeter. All loading needs to on the alternator side of the ammeter as are all factory loads. The ammeter is designed to register battery charge/discharge status only while the charging system is in operation. It is not designed to handle any other loading, as original, will not register full vehicle loads.
I’m not going to spend all day moving words around to suit your fancy. Under normal conditions, going down the road with a charged battery, the ammeter will read slightly above center. In an over charging situation, the ammeter will read much higher than that. In a situation where the alternator is not producing a charge, thereby discharging the battery, the ammeter will read below center. It sure sounds like I just described a way the ammeter can be used to check the output of the charging system / alternator and related circuits. Thanks.
What you just described is the charging/discharging at status of the battery, just as the ammeter is designed to do, not the total output of the charging system. The total output would include the factory loads taking place on the alternator side of the ammeter, not registering on the ammeter while in operation. No need to spend any time “moving words around”, just clarifying a common misunderstanding about what the ammeter purpose is and just what is registers as it was originally designed. I would disagree that a healthy and fully charged battery in a correctly loaded original Chrysler charging system would register any perceptible charging indication, should be pretty much centered if all is normal. @@DeadDodgeGarage
@@dougwilkinson2731 ...Mine runs slightly over dead center while driving down the street...72 big block charger for the last 25 years
As original, no added loads connected to the battery? As I said should be little to no charging current registered on the ammeter if all is well. A fully charged battery will draw verry current, amp or two at the most normally. For most this barely is enough to move the needle. th-cam.com/video/hN4RpVEi7U4/w-d-xo.html@@user-dw8mj8tb2l
@@72roadrunnergtx ...do you think a bad ignition switch would cause a random dying while coasting/iding ...Never had this issue Fired up after a few minutes. Everything else is new.
Hey Jamey so if add a wire from the alt lead post to pos battery can I leave it like that on an original charging system 68 plymouth 318
Yes, I do that all the time. I do have to recommend that you put in a big fuse or fusible link to protect it from shorting - which happens in these alternators from time to time.
@@DeadDodgeGarage thank you Jamey I will try that you are awesome!!!!
My problem: with key off, negative battery terminal off, I have voltage in both field wires to the alternator. Where could this power be coming from? The rad , the motor, voltage regulator housing, firewall all have a measurable voltage! Obviously a short but where to start looking that would have it in those field wires?
I have been thinking about this for days and I still don’t have a good answer. For one thing, if you had a short, you would have a fire in short order. Does this vehicle run? Are you finding these voltages with a multimeter on DC mode, the ground cable of which is run straight to battery negative? I wonder if you could email me a video of what you’re seeing. My address is jamienoise@gmail.com
What gauge wire do you recommend for the shunt wire?
I think I use 8 gauge.
What year did the amp meter wiring change?
I actually don’t know that. I think they stuck with it into the 80s but I’m not entirely sure.
Hey buddy I tried following your layout which is great! But I’m missing something, anyway to connect with you to talk about my charger? I’ve been Down going on a month! Please help
Sent a response to your email, let me know if you have any follow up questions.
Im having a bad over charging issue. Ive replaced the voltage regulator the connector and the alternator and its charging at 15.5 volts at idle. I found that if i take the ignition wire to the regulator and connect it to the battery it charges at 14.4 volts with the engine revving. Around 13.5 at idle. Any idea at what could be causing this? Also replaced the ignition switch as well and it had no effect
Huh. What voltage are you getting on the blue wire with it running? If that voltage is very low, the regulator will crank the output to try and bring it up. That’s the mechanism through which the regulator connection creates the over charging problem - the regulator sees a low voltage, so it cranks up the power.
@@DeadDodgeGarage 14.5 volts. And then when checking the battery 16 volts at idle
Great video & very informative.
Couple Qs for you if you can...?
I would like to go one wire. Could you recommend a good (higher amp) alternator? I want to clean up the engine bay on my old Charger.
And second, do you know if they make, or can you Frankenstein, an HEI distributor for the 440?
Thanks for your time. Look forward to more of your videos.
Personally, I like factory charging systems. That’s the main gist of this video. The shunt wire is a great way to improve things. Other than a factory Chevy one wire, I have never installed a one wire on a classic Mopar and can’t recommend a brand. If you’re running a bunch of heavy electrical loads, ok. If you’re cleaning up your Mopar engine compartment by getting rid of factory components and wiring, you might be making it worse 😅 but it can be done.
I’m sure they make a drop in HEI type distributor (I’m guessing DUI makes one,) but there are a lot of other good options - an MSD ‘ready to run’ distributor comes to mind.
@@DeadDodgeGarage coop beans. Thanks.
Yeah, currently I have the second (newer) voltage reg. & alt. I do want to clean it up. Getting rid of my old gages and putting in a new autometer dash set w/ new gauges and a decently large stereo.
Plus I'm going to change all my bulbs to two filament. So I'll ha e all 4 on at low or high beam.
So im definitely going to need a bump in wattage from a single wire.
I'll look up the HEI from the people you mentioned.
Thanks a bunch.
@@DeadDodgeGarage oh... forgot to mention. When I got the car it already had a new wiring harness. So no bulkhead to deal with.
@@jacobkarle4057 Aaaahhh. So you're in a different universe than most of the stuff I'm messing with anyway. Haha. I would find one of those drop in, standard Mopar appearing, higher output 1 wire alternators. Nice and easy, and looks kinda right in there. Again, I don't know who the heck makes them. Do you have headlight relays yet? If not, that might be something else for you to add. They make a huge difference in headlight brightness, and they take the load off of your headlight and dimmer switches - two common failure points (common, meaning I've spent some quality time on the side of the road at night in multiple A bodies and one truck over the years trying to get my headlights back.)
@@DeadDodgeGarage Cool beans. Thanks. Yeah, already bought 2 relays for the lights. It has an aftermarket wire harness but the lights are still dull. Even with a new light switch & dimmer switch. Especially on high beam. Lol
BUT... I'm going to do some surgery on them. I'm going to transplant some duel filament bulbs all the way across. That way I'll have all 4 on at the same time. Either low or high beam. One relay for each.
Already checked with TexDOT and it is legal to run with all 4 on at the same time.
Heck, might even video the before and after and post it with a tutorial. If it goes well...🤣🤣
I am having a problem wit my old school mopar charging system.No charge senerio. I replaced the square back alt w/ a rebuilt one. I replaced the solid state regulator w/ a new standard unit . Now I have a overcharge senerio 16 to 17 volts w/ engine running. My alt has 2 feild leads. my voltage reg has 2 lead plug. my ignition module has a 5 pin plug. could I have the feild terminals reversed? currently alt is wired as follows- battery wire, the next to it red feild wire ten next feild terminal to green wire, then ground wire in that order. Please help.
It shouldn’t matter which field wire is which. You have a ground wire? There isn’t usually a ground wire… judging by the field wire colors you gave, I’m assuming this is a truck? A bad connection in the two pin regulator connector causes this overcharging problem, and I almost always see it in trucks. I talk about that in this video. The tell tale will be the voltage starts at an almost normal reading immediately after starting, then climbs and climbs over a few seconds when you rev the engine to check the charge output. Clean and retension the terminals in that regulator connector - or replace it. If that isn’t it, my only other thought is that you could have ended up with a two field alternator with the negative field / brush connection grounded to be compatible with the earlier single field setup. Make sure the screws for the brush holders have their insulating washers in place.
I have a 1974 dodge dart and I took it to a shop not too long ago to get stuff fixed. When it came back it was reading below 12 volts so I replaced the battery, alternator and voltage regulator, and now it reads around 12 volts. There used to be a ampmeter but I found out whoever worked on my car took it out and just crossed the wires together, would that effect anything? But basically what I’m saying is the alternator is barely if any charging the battery. Any ideas?
Do the test I describe in this video where you check the voltage at the alternator output stud and compare that to the voltage you see at the battery. If there is higher voltage at the alternator than the battery, you likely have an issue in the firewall connector or dash wiring - which might explain why someone was messing with the amp gauge. In this case, your easiest fix is to add a shunt wire / direct charge wire from the alternator to the battery. Amp gauge wires connected together works fine as an amp gauge bypass. Also, some of these systems don’t really charge at idle. Rev the engine slightly while checking the voltage again.
@@DeadDodgeGarage How would you be able to tell if any dash wiring is causing the problem? There’s a ton of wires back there I don’t know what goes to what.
@@bradleyabraham6231 You need to do the test I mentioned above, where you will learn if the voltage at the alternator output stud is the same as at the battery - or not. If the readings are substantially different, you have a problem between the alternator and the battery. The only dash wiring that could cause this is the ammeter wiring. Beyond that, it's going to be hard for me to explain here any better than I explained the relevant circuits in this video.
If I were to add the wire from the positive side of the alternator to the positive side of the battery, does it require a fuse? Does the wire need to be the same size as the wire that goes to the ammeter or is there a more appropriate size?
I have done several without a fuse, but adding a fuse would be a really, really good idea. If there is ever a short inside the alternator (which happens from time to time,) that’s a fire waiting to happen. Yes, either the same size (8 gauge I believe,) or a size larger.
@@DeadDodgeGaragethanks!
@@DeadDodgeGarageIt was the voltage regulator. I should stop being astonished when things work.
@@robw7205 My #1 rule in this is, it's always the voltage regulator... except when it isn't. I think I've said that on video before. Haha.
I have a quick question. I am a Total amateur when it comes to wiring btw . If i have my 69 Charger dash frame out of my car, which part of the harness is the main point of ground? The cluster itself? Or is there another wire on the interior harness?
If you’re asking about gauge cluster, there is no separate ground wire, and the metal frame of the cluster grounds to the dash frame through its mounting screws. The frame in turn grounds to the body through its mounting bolts.
@@DeadDodgeGarage oh ok, I understand. Im just having charging issues and thought maybe the dash ground had to do with it , if it was disassembled.
1970 dodge power wagon 318 powered. I have the classic amp meter pegged when driving down the road, watching your video It looks like it could be the two pin connector on the voltage regulator .... Are there any other things that would cause this? And thanks for sharing your knowledge over the Interwebs brother, you're a big help.
Regulator or the regulator connector / pigtail. Those are basically your options. In theory there are a couple more possibilities but it’s basically always one of those. You bet! Thanks!
Well now sir your suggestion worked. Removed the voltage regulator, cleaned up all the associated ground contacts lubed up the 2 pin and BAM!!! meter gauges right where it's supposed to. Next up is the left side back up light I've changed the bulb, cleaned up the wiring and I still can't get it to turn on. Also, I put a timing light on it and at idle with the vacuum advance unhooked it has 10°. Would you leave it there or would you give it two or three or four more?@@DeadDodgeGarage
@@daviddodson1019 for a stock engine with a stock distributor curve, 10 degrees should be just right. Test light should tell you if power is reaching your reverse light bulb socket when the key is on and the shifter is in reverse. If it does, you are dealing with a ground problem to that socket. They probably ground through the housings.
Jamie, thanks so much for your time in responding@@DeadDodgeGarage
can I just run the shunt wire from positive output side of the alternator straight to the positive terminal to the battery
Absolutely, but a fuse for safety is a really, really good idea.
Right now I have no V output. I had a single wire MOPAR style alienator. It just has a very small regulator wired permanently installed to make it work with just hooking up the output wire. Now it started acting up on a very bumpy road. That was in May. Today it died.
I revolved it and put an older one that uses the 70+ regulator. Without it feeding the car, with it set up, I am only getting .679V. I tried hooking it to the car. All I had was battery V! Put a different regulator on it, I have several of them sitting around. They tested @ 1.5 to 1.7 ohms. I still get just .678V or close to that, I put another Alternator on got the same results. Tried the green to Field 1 (on the side, Closest to the power output) and blue to Field 2 at the top. This is shown on the power master web page. still .678V or close to that. It is the same, wired to sending battery V to the blue and green to field 1. I am at a loss. This voltage doesn't change when the alt output is feeding the car or not. Three voltage regulators and three different alt. .. I have had the car since 1982! It has a new Compleat wire harness on it 7 years ago. I put 6,000 miles on it this year... I am at a total lose. any ideas I will try. Thanks. You have a nice simple video. That shows the reasons why it has the new wiring system in it.
I think you need to do a full field test. Basically, full 12v from battery to the field connection that would be blue (although it shouldn’t matter which is which,) and ground to the other one. It should then charge. Over charge, actually. If it does, you have a working alternator, and need to figure out regulator circuits from that point. One of them is not functioning.
@@DeadDodgeGarage thanks. I had rewired the car years ago and ot worked but I had put had just made it work with jumpers up the fuse box. I went back and looked at the stock wire diagram and the Ron Francis diagram. Made them right. But this winter I am going to pull my dash an trace every wire.
It is not a bad idea to have a separate voltage regulator from the alternator.... More modern vehicles moved to the internally regulated alternator,.. now the internal regulators fail from heat in the alternator way before it's bearings or other components and has made the alternator a much more expensive part to replace, same as spark control modules for Ford and chevy...that failed so much that Ford started mounting them on the wheel houses or rad supports.. Sometimes progress takes a step back. On the amp gauge it a good idea to have that circuit protect buy a fusible link even better yet remove it as it been the cause a of many a mopar to burn down from owners who where not experienced enough on old mopars and a voltage gauge would be better any way.
A fair point. Although, if there’s one point I really wanted to drive home… it’s that the Mopar external voltage regulators are constantly failing. I have also seen a handful of PCMs with failed regulator circuits over the years - including a 2000 Ram I sold recently. The GM alternators with internal regulators seem to be very stout units. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it - I appreciate Chrysler leaving things alone for decades. I just find it interesting that the same basic alternator control circuit lasted from the beginning of the alternator to the modern day.
@@DeadDodgeGarage the major problem is where everything went to be manufactured China/Mexico 90s bill Clinton North American free trade deal started this downward turn echlin, balkamp,standard, and the worst Dorman all went south.... I have voltage regulators that are so old that the potting material has all melted away and they still work perfectly same for five and four pin modules but they are all USA made and yeah they fail too but at a much lesser rate in the last month I've replaced two GM alternators and 1 Honda alternator all the same thing no noise just not charging internal regulators killed by heat over time. A good place to source for parts is alternatorparts.com/ if you haven't found them yet.
@@moparnut6286Thanks for the link, too.
Great videos I could really use some help with my 78 b300 van right now I am manually turning the alternator on with a switch in the cab, help please lmao
Just in case you didn’t get my email address written down during the live last night, it’s jamienoise@gmail.com
The problem isn't the alternator design or anything with the charging system. Most of the stuff is old. Wires,connections. Practically all of the parts store alternators are junk and have been rebuilt a million times and bead blasted a million times. I had to get 3 different alternators at AZ because the threads were so blasted out you couldn't tighten the mounting bolt. Finally got one that had a heli-coil in it already. I usually run at least an 8ga wire right from the battery or starter relay to the alt output stud. Also the wires sometimes loosen up on the back of the amp gauge.
Yes, this is the ‘shunt wire’ I talk about often. Direct from alternator to big stud on relay. It’s a big improvement.
Interesting. I stripped out one or two alternators myself years ago (before I had my torque elbow calibrated properly,) but I’ve never had that problem with a reman. Although I’ve only ever had to buy a few of them, because as I say in the video, it’s never the alternator… except when it is.
Personally, I think we can attribute a lot of the problems to the amp gauge circuit design. The firewall connector was adequate at best to handle the loads when it was new - and far from it years down the line. Also, if the voltage regulator had a ground wire instead of being case grounded, they might last more than five minutes too.
@@DeadDodgeGarage The original design setup was perfectly fine for what it had.....a 37-amp alternator. That was standard across the board. Even the Upgraded version was only 41 or 45 and the 'HD' was 50 amps. A far cry from what's available today. If you're lucky enough to have your original alt I would keep it. Once you get a reman you're into the exchange racket. They ONLY change the bad parts and send it out with old diodes and bearings and other parts. They only change what they need to. There's a difference between 'rebuild' and 'remanufacture'.
I was on a trip and my alt went out. It was a reman about 2 or 3 years old. Went to AZ and swapped it and on the way home loosened up. Had to use a pair of visegrips to hold it on the bracket. I didn't tighten it crazy like an ape. In fact, it started stripping as soon as the bolt put pressure on the bracket. But it was the ONLY one they had n stock of those old style alternators. Came home and got a nicer one but it took 2 more tries.
27 or 28 years ago I got a reman starter from a parts chain long out of business. Spent the next 2 years swapping starters. They were easy to do in the parking lot in 20 min. Their starters looked like they blasted them clean with boulders. $19.95 lifetime warranty deal. OK if you don't mind changing them.
@@DeadDodgeGarage I agree that the 2 weak points are the Amp gauge and that bulkhead connector, both the result of using dated tech even for the period. Later they went to a 'shunt' Amp gauge that read a 'part' of the charge current and then later to a Volt gauge. If you run that bypass on the bulkhead connection the Amp gauge will move very little if at all unless you're at or near max draw of the alternator. If the wire is large enough, not at all. I usually use 8ga which is sufficient up to around 90-100amps especially considering the load split. A Volt gauge should be used anyway, it tells you way more information about what's going on than an Amp gauge.
Mopars have very long wires with lots of connectors to and from the ignition switch. The wires and connections increase in resistance over time, as well as the ignition switch.
What size wire should the shunt wire be?
The same size as the factory charge wire, or slightly larger.
@@DeadDodgeGarage should a person use a fuseable link or inline fuse for this shunt wire and if so put it on the alternator side or battery? I believe my 69 Charger has 12 gauge wire so I should I can with 10 gauge then?
Thanks...'79 Dodge van. If you have time......Having what I-think are wiring issues. Known-good alt and VR. If someone can answer just this question for now it would help. I remove the big wire from the alternator, connect multimeter red to positive battery terminal. Connect multimeter black to this alternator wire and I get sometimes a full 12v reading on the meter, so the alternator wire is grounded somewhere. This does not seem right to me. Thoughts? If I know that I have to chase-down a short somewhere it would make it easier. I will likely re-wire the charging system though. Thanks again.
I don’t understand your test procedure. Why did you do this? Was something smoking or melting? If there is a short in that wire, fire should’ve happened quickly - or a blown fusible link. So I am questioning the validity of your test results. To test the charge output circuit, I check for voltage at the alternator output stud and at the battery with everything connected - and compare. This means grounding the negative test lead, and touching positive teat lead to both of those points.
@@DeadDodgeGarage it's a long story but I'm having an intermittent no-charge problem. I agree now that if there was a short in that wire bad stuff would happen. Lots of things not making sense. Welcome to "Mitch world". I will dig into it deeper and report back if I find the problem. The only other things I'll mention for now is that when it's not charging, the ammeter does not show any discharge either, even with engine off and everything turned on. When it IS charging it will clearly show a discharge after shutting the engine down and turning stuff on. Also, when the ammeter IS showing a charge, the multimeter shows maybe high 12's or 13 at the most which I do not like. There are tons of corroded connectors and deteriorated insulators on this van which I've had for 36 years. Thanks again for your time.
@@mitchmadness4376 Ok. Fairly sure you don't have a short, and strongly suspect that adding a shunt wire (a direct charge wire from alternator to battery positive) may well solve your problem. Obviously you have lots of problems, but at least that could help.
Final but long update...The main problem here was that I had a bad connection near the battery. The large red wire coming from the positive battery terminal connects to the "charging cable". This connection was corroded. I got real lucky finding it. I had the meter on the battery with the van running and just happened to bump this connection and I saw the meter go from battery voltage to 13+. When wiggling this connection it would clearly charge then not charge. Repairing this connection solved the charging problem and the ammeter resumed working. Here's where it gets weird...I said earlier that "sometimes" it seemed that the charging wire was grounding out. The "sometimes" was because of this bad connection and here's what I found...If I disconnect the connector that was bad (essentially keeping the charging wire from connecting to the battery) the charging wire gets grounded-out. When I remake the connection (there is no sparking or arcing) the charging wire no-longer grounds-out. I tried again today to figure-out why this is happening but I'm done because it's just too confusing, and everything is fragile so stuff is starting to break so I'm leaving it alone even though I'm not crazy about seeing only 13.3 charging volts This amazing vehicle is slated for a full rehab after building my proposed new shop. At this time I will at a minimum shunt it out and will likely do a lot of re-wiring and a custom dash, etc. I will also shamelessly plug my channel called "MitchMadness". I am certain that anyone viewing your videos will be interested in my stuff, including the van rehab. Kids don't try this at home without a hard-copy wiring diagram or factory service manual which I bought years ago. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR TIME !!!!!
@@mitchmadness4376 Man... I was off in the weeds with you trying to figure your test out. I could've told you that these vans always have connection problems there at the battery 😅 Because the battery sits in the drip line under the hood, corroded and broken connections at the terminals are almost constant. Every single time I go to move our '91 van after it sits for a while, these connections are screwed up again. I have fixed them many times. I don't think you are actually seeing a ground. I think you are able to get a voltage measurement through the alternator using its stud as your negative terminal, but I think if you checked resistance between that terminal and ground, it would be much, much higher than zero. Glad you got to the bottom of it.
I bought an 86 ramcharger , I own fords so I’m new to dodge. new alternator, new voltage regulator, still not charging my battery. No volts at alternator battery terminal.
I did trace fusible link connected to battery, that wire is connected to 4 different wires that have fusible links. A blue wire within that is cut off either burned off not sure. Could this be my issue ? I’m new to dodge wiring so this is frustrating 😂
No volts at the big stud? That would be your problem - no connection to battery positive. I’ve never gone through this in an 80s truck and I’m not sure if that circuit works exactly the same as on older trucks or not. But in older trucks, the connection is made through the amp gauge/ammeter/alternator gauge - and they are often bad.
@@DeadDodgeGarage
Correct no volts at big stud on back of alternator that says batt. I’m gonna keep researching and look into the amp gauge. Thanks !
i'm not getting battery voltage key off or on at the alternator output post. what should i do now? :(
I am working on the assumption that this car starts and runs. I drew a diagram explaining where the charge output goes in this video, didn’t I? You need to find the break in your charge output circuit. In most classic Mopars it’s a thick black wire that goes from the alternator to the firewall connector. Many problems are found right there in the firewall connector contacts. From there it goes to the amp gauge. If you had an amp gauge failure and the electrical system hasn’t been modified, nothing in the car would work. So I would be scrutinizing the firewall connector. In the 70s the wiring harnesses got more complicated, and in A bodies at least, there is an extra connector on top of the engine that the charge wire goes through. If there is any other connector between the alternator and the firewall, check that too.
yes the challenger starts and runs but charging is my issue. i’ll look to the firewall and find the “break” thank you
My batteries keep sulfating in my 1987 Dodge Ramcharger. is this an alternator over charging the battery problem? or is it the voltage regulator? or both?
Overcharging is definitely possible, but the way to know that is to watch what the amp gauge is doing. Battery voltage at higher engine RPM would be a good thing to check - if you’re seeing 15v+, that’s a problem. ‘87 should still have the separate two wire voltage regulator, and what I often see on trucks is a problem in that connector leading to over charging. But there will be other signs… blowing light bulbs are a good one.
havent had any light bulbs blow its just been the battery sulfating. this is the 3rd battery in less than 2 months. Im inclined to beleive its the regulator, but if I buy a new regulator you are saying that it might not be the regulator but the actual two point triangle shaped connector that is faulty? also thanks again for answering i was about to go on the ramcharger central forums lol@@DeadDodgeGarage
@@S.G.W.C. Usually if that is the case, the amp/charge gauge will be reading very high all the time when the truck is driving down the road. There is a resistance test you can do on the voltage regulator - I think I discussed that in this video, but there is a better video on TH-cam documenting that. It's probably worth checking before throwing parts at it, if you have a multimeter.
So I have a 69 mopar voltage regulator went bad so I bought a new one that is a solid state regulator but it won’t work , figured out it won’t work with a 70s and new alternator but I guess there is a fix for that do you know it ??
Yeah. Make sure the unused field / brush connection is grounded. Usually when you get a reman alternator from the parts store, it is the later type - and the second field is already grounded. The screws for the brushes normally have insulated washers on them, and they simply leave one of them off so it is grounded out through the screw. You can also add a ground wire.
@@DeadDodgeGarage I did ground one of the terminals but it still doesn’t work ,probably a bad new regulator I’m guessing
Got a one wire square back alternator from summit racing. Installed and ran a new wire directly to the battery. The moment I connected it the old alt wire going thru bulk head into the guage started to melt. Wth? I pulled the ground right away from the battery. Today I pulled out the old alternator wire and purchased an old rebuilt unit. Have no idea why it did that.
Sorry, this is probably obvious, but I still have to ask - your direct wire was on battery positive, right? Any chance one of the terminals was touching metal at alternator end? If not… dead short inside alternator. That happened on my Challenger, and it was a short inside the alternator. Of course that one wasn’t brand new…
@@DeadDodgeGarage called a buddy and double checked everything. Funny thing was a week before I installed a one wire on my buick. I crossed the battery wires and alt wire not hooked up yet, started smoking, same as the dodge. That was my fault. On the dodge I made sure all battery terminals and wires were correct. Only thing my buddy and I could figure was alt had a short. You are confirming in a way that this is correct.
@@DeadDodgeGarage heavy load wire from alt positive post was wired directly to positive battery terminal. Wire wasn't touching any metal
@@rustybumperclassics6342 Yep. There's just nothing else that can really be then... short in the new alternator. That's irritating.
1985 dodge d150 360. So about 6 months ago my vr went out and blew fusible link to the alternator wire, I replaced the vr and installed an inline fuse 40 amp all was good. Last week my fuse blew I put a new alternator and vr and blows fuse 10 seconds after startup. Yes the vr is grounded good, the wire to the alternator is good and getting good voltage. I also put a new fusible link to replace the inline fuse and it got really hot so I put the inline fuse back in. I’m lost and don’t know what else to do.
Voltage regulator can’t melt fusible link or blow your fuse. Only a short or a massive draw can do that. I just had an issue in a ‘92 truck with the regulator cranking the charge output to max. I was seeing 19 volts at the battery, it was running for quite a while like that, and no fusible links ever blew. Some light bulbs did - but that’s another story.
A 40 amp fuse was probably on the small size, but obviously it held up for a while. If you disconnect the voltage regulator and start the truck, does it still blow? What is the amp gauge saying right after startup? Is it way down by chance?
@@DeadDodgeGarage if you don’t mind helping me with this I’ll check that when I get off work today. What size fuse should I put in its place (60 amp alternator).
@@tommywilliams1402 60 would probably be alright, but I usually go for 80-100. The fuse should be able to handle the alternator's full load capacity, but if there is ever a dead short inside it, the fuse will blow.
@@DeadDodgeGarage when I replaced the fusible link and it got hot that link was rated for 100 amp and my gauge in the truck was 3/4 mark over half
@@DeadDodgeGarage Voltage regulator unplugged voltage was reading 12.07 fuse did not pop
Plugged voltage regulator back in voltage meter red 14.5 then fuse popped.
Removed fuse and attached the red probe to the firewall side of the in-line fuse link and got the reading of 79 volts at rev. Hope that makes sense.
I've replaced the alternator and VR the amp meter is still in the D. shunt wire is next
The shunt wire will do nothing if you aren’t getting charge output. Follow the steps, check the output voltage on the main alternator stud.
Your the Van Gogh of wiring diagrams
It’s a rare talent, but I was clearly gifted with it
Truly you have been gifted by God . Just don’t cut off you ear because of a woman
Even if she nags you
How would you go about bypassing the gauge with an aftermarket one on a 85 dodge ram
Is it actually bad? First off, I would add a shunt wire straight from alternator to battery as I have described. Eliminating the amp gauge from the charging circuit is as simple as putting the two wires on the back of it together on one of its posts. Easy. You could also splice them together. As far as adding another gauge, you would wire in a volt gauge instead. It should come with a wiring diagram, or you can source one online. It’s pretty simple. Note, you would not use either of the original amp gauge wires for this.
@@DeadDodgeGarage thank you what Guage of wire do you recommend running for the shunt wire
@@cocobean7391 I think 8 gauge is about right. Even 10 is probably fine.
@@DeadDodgeGarage thank you I appreciate the help
@@DeadDodgeGarage I am going to put a wire from alternator to battery as you suggest. Where on the alternator do I attach the wire. Thanks.
What happens when you have two known good alternators that work in a valiant, put out 14.5 volts of the back of it and when you put them in another car and the alternator is reading 11 volts of the back of the alternator?
The alternator is not your problem. The voltage regulator or wiring is your problem. Also, are both the same configuration - single field or dual field?
@DeadDodgeGarage I threw in a spare regulator that I had and that fixed it. Currently a single field that I had in the Valiant. Thanks for your help, I just found your channel this weekend and subscribed. Love the mopar content.
Wish I watched This video before I had an alternator shop tell me mine worked perfectly fine fml
I have a 1986 dodge d-250 custom. When I turn key to the on position voltage meter goes all the way to the left and pulses even more to the left when running or using turn signals what could be the problem
I don’t know why it would be going that far over, but it sounds like you most likely aren’t charging. I would check your battery voltage and see what is going on there. Does your battery go dead? Has it been doing this for a while but continuing to run?
No It starts every morning Im not sure it it has to do with a bad connection with the external voltage regulator. The only thing I've replaced was the alternator and I up fitted a marine deep cycle battery
@@zachwalczak6082 By chance, is the output lug of your alternator wired directly to your battery? It sounds like your amp gauge is only measuring the loads in the electrical system, and not the charge from the alternator. Again, even in that case, I wouldn't expect the gauge to swing all the way to the discharge side, but if the truck continues to work like that I'd say it's not big deal.
It in fact is hooked directly to the battery. Guess you could say as the old Mopar saying goes, Direct->
@@zachwalczak6082 Haahaha. Well, it works!
Gm 1 wire, No more problems!
Boooooooooo
crysler new yorker 1966 i have 17 to 18 volt from generator new regulator new generator but on battery i have 13,5 WHEN the light but when i turn on light it drops to 12,4 . i have changed ground from battey to chassi and chassi to engine and checked every connector please help iam desperate
If you have 17-18 volts at the alternator, but do not have that same voltage at battery positive, you have an issue in your charge circuit - either in the firewall connector, or in your amp gauge. In either case, you need to run a fairly heavy gauge charge wire directly from alternative positive to battery positive (I usually actually connect them to the large stud on the starter relay for a nice looking installation that does the same thing.)
Basically, your voltage regulator senses the low battery voltage and is attempting to raise it, but the charge is not making it there. Whether you’ve checked the often messed up connections in the firewall or not, your issue must be there. I do describe how the circuit works in this video, and I explain adding the charge bypass or “shunt” wire I am describing now.
@@DeadDodgeGarage how big of a shute wire do i need
What if my voltage regulator is reading 11.02 at 20k ???
I would strongly suspect it’s no good… does it charge, over charge, nothing?
@@DeadDodgeGarage it’s not charging the battery dies not long after a charge brand new alternator and battery there also a bad whining sound when the voltage regulator is plugged in
My 72 charger recently dies driving down the street.Starts up after a few minutes. New alt,ecm...blue ,voltage reg,ballast res,...all well grounded. Ignition switch arrived to day... It better be the problem!!!! . 25 years with no problem like this...stumped
As I said in my email… I doubt it. Throwing parts at it is not the answer. Actual diagnosis is the way to find the answer. Hope the info I sent is helpful.
What motor is that
It’s a 360 with Edelbrock aluminum heads, among other things.
@@DeadDodgeGarage oh awesome. What is the belt size on the first truck hood you opened up?
@@beaudenhymas443 I don't think I used any trucks in this video. I assumed you were referring to the first engine with the alternator flipped over on the wrong side. That was the 360 I described, and unfortunately that car is long gone so I couldn't tell you what belt was on it. That setup was custom engineered and definitely wouldn't match anything you've got anyway.
@@DeadDodgeGarage alright yeah I figured I was a little confused as why it was on that side haha.