I got one of my first 'jobs' (you know, the kind where you got to fly for no money!) because I came up with a DME arc off of the Gorman VOR to fly mail three days a week to the Borax plant NE of Edwards AFB. Because of the arc, Edwards control tower allowed me to overfly their base because it was a predictable route. I'd land on a graded road near the plant, deliver the sack of mail, and pick up a sack of outgoing mail. I called it the Burbank to Borax route! Ah...the days....... Thanks for the great video!
Norm K I love that story! ❤️ I didn’t think that kind of stuff existed anymore (like in the “post Lindbergh” era) thanks! I’m really glad you enjoyed the video
I really like what you are saying with regards to right and left, but I think for a real beginner like me I need a more step by step, slower visualisation, could you do that please?
Jason you truly are an amazing instructor. I've had about 30 minutes of ground school, another 2 hours watching various youtube videos and was confused until I watched this for 5 minutes. thanks so much.
*I like that “always/never” idea, I can tell you’re a great teacher from your safety and your videos, your remind me of my PPL CFI who’s been in the game for years. Thanks again for a great video from an aspiring IFR rated pilot!*
Hello Jason! Just stumbled upon your videos. I have learned DME Arcs a long time ago, but your technique of flying an Arc is spot on. I practiced your technique on FSX and was very impressed with the accuracy that I was able to hold. Thanks for all of your hard work, and explaining your technique with simplicity. God Bless!
.... and here I was thinking that I was the only one NOT doing twist 10 ... (too inaccurate) (and my DPE never had me even consider arc on my practical --- and Approach isn't keen to taking up airspace wasting time for little GA to clear space for big iron...)
How would you fly the rwy 27 approach at KRHI starting at the vor with procedure turn..... rhi vor is not an IAF and it doesn't cross one it only crosses IF, but it has a feeder route.....
Presto, what are you having trouble with in flying an arc? I would be glad to help you. Parts of this video could have been a little clearer to make it easier to understand, but thankfully, I was able to grasp Jason's concept, only because of my flight time experience. Get in touch with me at: wffwff58@gmail.com and I can help you. WF
Love your Videos Jason, wish you were closer to KSUN, would love to have some lessons with you! Quick advice if you have a second. I received my PPL a year and a half ago. I have my own plane (C182Q) which is instrument capable. I want to take the next step which is being instrument rated. Should I do an online course to get my written out of the way then find a CFI or would it be better to take a two or three-week class from a reputable flight school? You ever fly the backcountry strips in the mountains of Idaho?
Hi Roger, I think it's a fine idea to get the written "out of the way" ... just make sure you can get prepared in the next 24 months. These days examiners are more tuned into what you get wrong on the written during the oral portion of your check ride so keep that in mind. You are close enough to the coast to make sure you get some actual IFR approaches to mins during your training ... maybe a long cross country to the bay area :) I have only flown the back country up there a couple of times but wow, it's amazing. What a state for flying! Have you seen our mountain flying adventure we run in the Sierras? Great staff / survival training. You should consider joining us this year! There are about 4 spots left ... adventure.learnthefinerpoints.com/
I would love to participate in the Survival training course in June but unfortunately, have other obligations during that timeframe. Looks like a lot of fun and a great learning experience! Maybe I can check into the next one or next year events. Do you do full IFR training and if so what is the average amount of time it takes to get it done if someone were to train daily till it was done? I really love your style of training and I'm sure I could fine tune some of my basic skills as well. I feel I was somewhat trained in an unconventional way and think I missed out on some of the things I should know when it comes to more advanced flying skills and techniques, would love a chance to get with a CFI and go through some of the more advanced and/or basic stuff. My weakness seems to be landings, especially crosswind but sure I am not the only one with that issue. When I was training on windy days it seemed there were no planes in the area, we had the airport to ourselves. My 182 has a Robertson STOL wing which I have heard makes the crosswind a little more of a challenge. I went from training in a 172A to this 182Q after I got my PPL, so haven't flown a normal 182 to know what the differences are in flight characteristics. Sorry for rambling on! LOL...bad habbit...I'm like a sponge and just want to take in as much as I can!! I'm always open to different ideas and techniques.
Heyyy just a quick question and I'm in the middle of confusion. I flew with my instructor and did a 6 miles Arc so when I checked my position I was crossing the radial and the sensing says FROM and I know where the runway is so I began my 90 degrees turn since I know what am going to do, but then he told me I was wrong because he says the first thing to do is Homing. Should I do homing first or carry on from wherever my position is as long as I know where should I turn?
Hi Tommy, I'm not sure I understand ... homing wouldn't really apply. Can you explain to me what you mean by 'Homing" we might have a terminology confusion, then I'll do my best to answer. Or just give me a little more here for clarification. thx
GPS - I don't know of any that aren't RNP (required navigation performance) approaches which most light airplanes don't fly (yet) but I believe the FAA dropped the "DME" part of the title in honor of those.
I can't finish watching the video, because she talks all over Jason who is trying to explain! I honestly got to 2:30 and wrote this comment and moved on.
Yes,what a great video this would be if Anita could just stop talking ! I now see how irritating I have been for instructors in the past ! Sadly for me it destroys what would be a really useful video for me to learn how to fly an ARC. I am taking away the material from the times when she is not on the video and learning from those. Impressed by your patience and professionalism.
All these needles and headings and stuff, does no one just fly the distance, if the distance goes one way you go this way, if the distance goes this way you go that way. Just keep the distance centered. That intrinsically to me makes a whole heck of a lot more sense than trying to watch 15 needles and accounting for windage and all that.
I think the needles (15‽ are you using the fuel flow and EGT needles to navigate?) help you know what your heading should be and let you adjust your course accordingly. Honestly, if you're trying to fly an arc at a specific altitude, what is taking up so much bandwidth that you can't adjust your OBS and HDG (just 2 "needles," by my count) every 30 seconds or so? Often, an arc leads to a radial to fly in/out on. Knowing exactly where you are as that radial naturally turns up seems a lot more comfortable than setting the radial and "flying the distance" until the needle starts moving. Through trial and error in the sim, I figured out to fly the distance and watch the speed. If you're flying tangent, the DME speed (to/from) will be zero. When the speed starts increasing, adjust your turn. However, getting myself configured at the correct distance AND heading was a terribly inaccurate process. I'd blow through the distance flying 25 degrees off but have no reference to adjust my heading other than keep turning until the distance starts going down, then turn back until it's going up, repeat. It turns out 1/10 of a mile is a huge error to bounce off of trying to get an accurate track, and you can easily zigzag over the arc by over half a mile if your bearings aren't dialed in. Now I've found this needle method, I'm confident my track will look a lot less squiggly where I try to pick up the arc. In fact, as I type this, a lot of geometry is clicking into place that just didn't occur to me when looking at the approach plate. I probably could fly it better now with just the distance, but the needles will make it even more precise.
I got one of my first 'jobs' (you know, the kind where you got to fly for no money!) because I came up with a DME arc off of the Gorman VOR to fly mail three days a week to the Borax plant NE of Edwards AFB. Because of the arc, Edwards control tower allowed me to overfly their base because it was a predictable route. I'd land on a graded road near the plant, deliver the sack of mail, and pick up a sack of outgoing mail. I called it the Burbank to Borax route! Ah...the days....... Thanks for the great video!
Norm K I love that story! ❤️ I didn’t think that kind of stuff existed anymore (like in the “post Lindbergh” era) thanks! I’m really glad you enjoyed the video
I really like what you are saying with regards to right and left, but I think for a real beginner like me I need a more step by step, slower visualisation, could you do that please?
Jason you truly are an amazing instructor. I've had about 30 minutes of ground school, another 2 hours watching various youtube videos and was confused until I watched this for 5 minutes.
thanks so much.
the geek awesome. Thx. 🙌
Awesome instrument tips, love to see more ifr vids from you
*I like that “always/never” idea, I can tell you’re a great teacher from your safety and your videos, your remind me of my PPL CFI who’s been in the game for years. Thanks again for a great video from an aspiring IFR rated pilot!*
Helpful. Needed that. Almost ready for my IFR checkride. Good timing.
John Gleason awesome! Good luck 👍
If you could see the look on my face at 3:17 when I finally got my "ah-ha" moment with understanding these!
Hannah Neill hey Han 👋
Awesome video! the best simplified way of visualizing what a DME arc is doing...and the second best way as the alternate description.. love it
Hello Jason!
Just stumbled upon your videos. I have learned DME Arcs a long time ago, but your technique of flying an Arc is spot on. I practiced your technique on FSX and was very impressed with the accuracy that I was able to hold. Thanks for all of your hard work, and explaining your technique with simplicity.
God Bless!
Great instructor!
Looking forward to you hitting the 100k sub mark when you keep putting out quality content like this. Keep it up man.
.... and here I was thinking that I was the only one NOT doing twist 10 ... (too inaccurate)
(and my DPE never had me even consider arc on my practical --- and Approach isn't keen to taking up airspace wasting time for little GA to clear space for big iron...)
How would you fly the rwy 27 approach at KRHI starting at the vor with procedure turn..... rhi vor is not an IAF and it doesn't cross one it only crosses IF, but it has a feeder route.....
Jason-more details-beginning to end.
Awesome Video! Thanks!
Lol.. still have no idea ..
Presto, what are you having trouble with in flying an arc? I would be glad to help you.
Parts of this video could have been a little clearer to make it easier to understand, but thankfully, I was able to grasp Jason's concept, only because of my flight time experience.
Get in touch with me at: wffwff58@gmail.com and I can help you.
WF
Thanks so much Jason! This helped a bunch!
Sure! Glad to hear it!
Love your Videos Jason, wish you were closer to KSUN, would love to have some lessons with you! Quick advice if you have a second. I received my PPL a year and a half ago. I have my own plane (C182Q) which is instrument capable. I want to take the next step which is being instrument rated. Should I do an online course to get my written out of the way then find a CFI or would it be better to take a two or three-week class from a reputable flight school? You ever fly the backcountry strips in the mountains of Idaho?
Hi Roger, I think it's a fine idea to get the written "out of the way" ... just make sure you can get prepared in the next 24 months. These days examiners are more tuned into what you get wrong on the written during the oral portion of your check ride so keep that in mind. You are close enough to the coast to make sure you get some actual IFR approaches to mins during your training ... maybe a long cross country to the bay area :) I have only flown the back country up there a couple of times but wow, it's amazing. What a state for flying! Have you seen our mountain flying adventure we run in the Sierras? Great staff / survival training. You should consider joining us this year! There are about 4 spots left ... adventure.learnthefinerpoints.com/
I would love to participate in the Survival training course in June but unfortunately, have other obligations during that timeframe. Looks like a lot of fun and a great learning experience! Maybe I can check into the next one or next year events. Do you do full IFR training and if so what is the average amount of time it takes to get it done if someone were to train daily till it was done? I really love your style of training and I'm sure I could fine tune some of my basic skills as well. I feel I was somewhat trained in an unconventional way and think I missed out on some of the things I should know when it comes to more advanced flying skills and techniques, would love a chance to get with a CFI and go through some of the more advanced and/or basic stuff. My weakness seems to be landings, especially crosswind but sure I am not the only one with that issue. When I was training on windy days it seemed there were no planes in the area, we had the airport to ourselves. My 182 has a Robertson STOL wing which I have heard makes the crosswind a little more of a challenge. I went from training in a 172A to this 182Q after I got my PPL, so haven't flown a normal 182 to know what the differences are in flight characteristics. Sorry for rambling on! LOL...bad habbit...I'm like a sponge and just want to take in as much as I can!! I'm always open to different ideas and techniques.
Heyyy just a quick question and I'm in the middle of confusion. I flew with my instructor and did a 6 miles Arc so when I checked my position I was crossing the radial and the sensing says FROM and I know where the runway is so I began my 90 degrees turn since I know what am going to do, but then he told me I was wrong because he says the first thing to do is Homing. Should I do homing first or carry on from wherever my position is as long as I know where should I turn?
Hi Tommy, I'm not sure I understand ... homing wouldn't really apply. Can you explain to me what you mean by 'Homing" we might have a terminology confusion, then I'll do my best to answer. Or just give me a little more here for clarification. thx
Yupppp terminology confusion always occurs mate. so homing is where you use your VOR to track back to the station
Are there dme arcs on IAPs anywhere on the planet not based around a VOR + how do you fly those if no VOR ?
GPS - I don't know of any that aren't RNP (required navigation performance) approaches which most light airplanes don't fly (yet) but I believe the FAA dropped the "DME" part of the title in honor of those.
I can't finish watching the video, because she talks all over Jason who is trying to explain! I honestly got to 2:30 and wrote this comment and moved on.
Yes,what a great video this would be if Anita could just stop talking ! I now see how irritating I have been for instructors in the past ! Sadly for me it destroys what would be a really useful video for me to learn how to fly an ARC. I am taking away the material from the times when she is not on the video and learning from those. Impressed by your patience and professionalism.
I have never been taught to fly a DME arc - thanks
dave jones excellent, now you know!
All these needles and headings and stuff, does no one just fly the distance, if the distance goes one way you go this way, if the distance goes this way you go that way. Just keep the distance centered. That intrinsically to me makes a whole heck of a lot more sense than trying to watch 15 needles and accounting for windage and all that.
I think the needles (15‽ are you using the fuel flow and EGT needles to navigate?) help you know what your heading should be and let you adjust your course accordingly. Honestly, if you're trying to fly an arc at a specific altitude, what is taking up so much bandwidth that you can't adjust your OBS and HDG (just 2 "needles," by my count) every 30 seconds or so? Often, an arc leads to a radial to fly in/out on. Knowing exactly where you are as that radial naturally turns up seems a lot more comfortable than setting the radial and "flying the distance" until the needle starts moving.
Through trial and error in the sim, I figured out to fly the distance and watch the speed. If you're flying tangent, the DME speed (to/from) will be zero. When the speed starts increasing, adjust your turn. However, getting myself configured at the correct distance AND heading was a terribly inaccurate process. I'd blow through the distance flying 25 degrees off but have no reference to adjust my heading other than keep turning until the distance starts going down, then turn back until it's going up, repeat. It turns out 1/10 of a mile is a huge error to bounce off of trying to get an accurate track, and you can easily zigzag over the arc by over half a mile if your bearings aren't dialed in. Now I've found this needle method, I'm confident my track will look a lot less squiggly where I try to pick up the arc.
In fact, as I type this, a lot of geometry is clicking into place that just didn't occur to me when looking at the approach plate. I probably could fly it better now with just the distance, but the needles will make it even more precise.
Even easier with bearing pointers.
Can't wait to apply this in the cockpit. I think flying via instruments will be challenging but good times.
Turn 10 twist 10
Shut up Pilot, don't "yea yea yea", let your instructor finish his sentence and listen!
Yea, yea, yea, she talks all over him. Just listen!!
Could not follow this at all.