Hey man, great job on these videos and these tests. I know it’s a lot of work and sharing everything you’re doing is greatly appreciated by the community. Keep it up!
Your welcome! It's a lot of fun to do and I enjoy the process of testing, analyzing and re-adjusting the design for better results. Only if I had more free time 🤣. And thank you for your nice words! Is greatly appreciated
You could print some springs to match the vacuum weight then place the scale directly below it. You could also put the scale inside a baggie (to protect it from dust) and measure the weight of the cotton bag inside the vacuum. Lots of ways to skin this cat. I also want to caution viewers that atomized dust particles become explosive, so please be careful. I've personally seen a 36" duct full of sawdust explode into a ball of fire, 3 meters in front of my face. A sander hit a steel nail in the log, and caused the entire building to be evacuated. Seriously, be careful with atomized particles.
Weighing the cotton bag alone is just a small part of the dust inside the camvac. The most material is between the metal bin and the cotton bag. When you get the bag out that dust is not inside the bag but underneath it. And you have the paper bag filters around the motors. With cotton sleeves under it. So weighing the total camvac is the best option. And I agree on the spring part. Making a weighing platform to put the camvac on is the best way to go I think.
You can further enhance suction by doing a straight pipe with smooth sides between the vacuum and separator. The ribs of the tube and the U of the pipe are surely reducing efficiency.
Well done! Curious about how much made it to the cloth and paper bag filters in the Camvac? Especially with the baking powder! Would putting hard tubing between the Camvac and the separator make any difference? I've used a thien baffle system myself for years, which isn't perfect but is good enough for my needs.
I haven’t opened the CamVac yet but I took a quick look trough the inlet and it was white inside 😅. Should be around 200 grams I guess. They’re was a lot what was left behind in the hose and separator.
Good stuff! That triple motor extractor looks interesting I think you need to do a workshop tour too! Would love to see how you've maximised the space.
Hi Nick! Thx for your response. The triple motor CamVac is the best extractor for the average workshop according to Dennis from Hooked on Wood; m.th-cam.com/video/e_WJ9DRAVRU/w-d-xo.html My workshop is 100% inspired by watching his videos. Only with my own twist. It is a result of a process that started out in 2020 with many little steps and one big vision that you see now as a result.
I try to make a video about it during my Christmas holidays. My studio workshop is in the attic and actually my whole house is furnished as a large design studio for developing creativity. And I share a one car garage for my larger tools that is a 15 minute walk away from my studio.
looking forward to the self build multi motor vac. Can you add specs for power consumption? I worry that I won't be able to power it from a single socket in my shop.
The motor I bought is 1100 Watt each on 230v. For the triple motor CamVac the startup power when all the motors are enabled was to much for the fuse. It was delivered with the switches turned on. When I turn them on one by one it works fine!
Also, I think the final stage of this design is less-than-optimal. Use the centrifugal force from a smaller diameter and a little twist to accelerate the fine particles to the outside tube, then have baffles with holes that swirl that airflow into a bucket/filter.
To measure weight and remove the dead weight you can have a 50-50 stick on a rope and a 25kg counterweight (or what you need to cancel the motor and bin) and now the only weight left is the dust
Yes I that was the other option indeed. Only I had only one garden tile left for it and that was not enough weight 😅. Found out you also can buy a Precision balance for 32kg at 0.1 grams accuracy. It’s just 1750€ 🤔 www.henkmaas.nl/products/precisiebalans-pbl/
Bill Pentz recommends 4+ feet of straight run before going into the inlet. Probably applicable to the separator inlet and the vac inlet in this case too.
I assume this is a major factor in the flour result as well. Even noticed it myself in my own tests of this design. Ruud is probably right that the PVC version has less static charge buildup than the acrylic. There is a way to reduce static: inject electrons. I only know one way on top of my head and it's not dust safe: heated electric grating like in old CRT.
I added copper tape on one side in each tube in the PVC version. Only did not connect it to ground yet. It is something on the list though to get it nicely integrated. I also noticed a slight static charge a while cleaning out the bins.
I build it two years ago as a cheap(er) version of the Airbo Aircleaner AC2 that is +1500€ for where I live. I used their filters including the HEPA H13 filter and built the rest of 12mm plywood. And used the shaper for the covers. Made mine for 500€ I guess. Not really DIY budget style😅. When I would do it again i would use more 3D printed parts I think for better airflow inside. And not the Hepa filter but cheaper filters and go the route of using a fan with a bigger airflow so air in the room will be processed more times each hour. Now the hepa filter is a big pressure loss and effect the airflow to much so air is not cleaned that often per hour compared with a less rated filter. It is definitely on the list of builds that I would like to 🎥 with potential to upgrade.
Once again, an excellent video - I’ve learned a lot from it. When the time comes, I’ll use your results in building my own dust extraction system. Have you considered using a water filter as well? Being able to filter everything completely and then only needing to dispose of and refill the water would be fantastic! My plan is to start by building a smaller version, like a shop vac, and then scale it up once my workshop is ready. Have you also thought about making the impeller yourself? What type of motor were you thinking of using? Thanks again for your great videos, and enjoy!
Hi Pim! Thx for your lovely message! It’s hard to make a test video interesting I noticed while making it. So had to combine some hobbies and really enjoyed making this one! As far as the shopvac version. I ordered a 100mm pvc tube at baptist to make one to fit in a systainer or bosch boxx system. On my patreon I already did a update on that process. Only scaling it down is not the way to go I think because my plunge cut saw produces more dust than one 150mm tube can handle now connected to my Festool midi. Maybe the smaller diameter does the trick though. Need to speedbuild that first I think 🤔. My engineering hat was thinking of a centrifugal separation tube lite they use for helicopters or tanks. On the CamVac motor I ordered this one: hevo-shop.com/Staubsaugermotoren/230-v-trocken/saugmotor-230-v-1100-watt-zweistufig-tp.html They also make versions capable to handle water and I was thinking to use that to only for my planer I like to make the dry version first because I really need that one as fast as possible 😅
I saw Dyson Kinetic cyclone units (or a used vacuum for way cheaper probably) are still available, getting one of those and reverse engineering it may be neat!
I think that would be around 99.7% The planer produces the dust with a lot of air volume in between the shavings. I noticed that the dust in the gutter was more compact and dense. So a better test would be to sprinkle the dust in front of the suction hose and let the hose suck it in. Now with the gutter sometimes big chunks of dust are pulled in that will overflow the first stage with material that is not supposed to get into stage 2.
Hi, i would not be percieved as the classic turbosafety opinionist, but i t think this time can be worth the risk. Please consider ATEX equipment due to the explosive properties of regular flour and fine milled sugars. In suspension with air they create very dangerous mix with air and can easily deflagrate, in a test like this the ducted channel adds detonation risk too, due to the confined space in which the mix is create. Thanks, by the way, for the interesting solutions you are making and sharing.
Yes you’re totally right. I was aware of that and informed more or less. Luckily not reached the LEL for that. The CamVac is in no way ATEX rated. I did open the window that is 1.5m away. And had my self built room air cleaner on that was installed at the other side. Only that wouldn’t eliminate the risk inside the tube and CamVac! Not going to do the flour test again 😅. At least not inside 😃.
Mooi project. Echter ben ik geen grote fan van de parallelle opvang bakken. Er zou een druk verschil kunnen ontstaan tussen de twee kanten, bijvoorbeeld tijdens het opzuigen van veel materiaal in een korte tijd en een niet perfecte verdeling tussen de twee kanten. Op dat moment gaat er lucht door de opvangbak stromen en effectief materiaal verwijderen. In dit geval stel ik dus 4 opvang bakken voor (of een scheidingswand in elke bak. Hoe dan ook, succes! Houdoe.
Heb je wel een punt. Alleen Harvey doet het ook zo. Ik kon inderdaad wel zien dat er wat wervelingen ontstonden in sommige situaties die niet het resultaat verbeteren. 4 bakken wordt wat te gortig qua kosten. Ik ga eens een keer proberen een tussen schot te laseren die past. Heb de bakken toch redelijk noukeurig in CAD staan. Thx 👍
In a real world situation the fine dust wouldn't enter the separator in such volume. A lower trickle of fine dust would be more realistic I think. Agree on straight pipes at the inlet. Thanks for your videos and showing the results
I agree about the volume. Only when cleaning up the workshop and removing a lot of dust do high mass flows arise. Ideally it should be able to separate that.
Yes! The next scene I had to correct it to match with the source file and forgot to swap de footage from up to down. Now that I know it, I really itch to adjust it 😅.
Has anyone built this using a harbor freight 2hp dust collector? I feel like that is far more powerful than one of those cam vacs, even with "3 motors". Surely the % eff. has to be better than 90 %
I have built the separator and have a 2HP motor+impellor rated at 1650CFM ready to test it with. I think the Camvac is a nice small package solution but pretty sure it will lack the real power needed. Planning on having the motor in front of the separator and a micro filter at the exhaust of the separator. Mounting everything on a useless wall.
A three motor Camvac is 3kW, which is about 4hp, so on paper despite its size it is *twice as powerful* as the Harbor Freight unit you're describing. It differs in how it _uses_ that power; a HVLP dust collector is designed to generate very high flow rates through unrestricted systems, whereas the Camvac uses some of its power to additionally generate a high static pressure, like a shopvac but with much higher airflow. In a battle between a 2hp HVLP collector and a 2hp Camvac, the dust collector would have a higher flow rate through an unrestricted pipe but its flow rate would drop off sharply with restrictions to the pipe, whereas the Camvac's would not. But given that this particular Camvac is literally twice as powerful as the 2ph collector you're describing I would expect it to win easily even in terms of unrestricted flow rate. And once you restrict the flow with a dust separator, the Camvac's higher static pressure is a significant advantage. It would be really interesting to see real data on how effective this separator would be with a 2hp HVLP extractor because they're so common. The TL;dr here is that it'll definitely perform worse than the Camvac. But it's also much cheaper...
![ILLSLICK - WINTER IS COMING [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dwTMeM1zIhQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey man, great job on these videos and these tests. I know it’s a lot of work and sharing everything you’re doing is greatly appreciated by the community. Keep it up!
Your welcome! It's a lot of fun to do and I enjoy the process of testing, analyzing and re-adjusting the design for better results. Only if I had more free time 🤣.
And thank you for your nice words! Is greatly appreciated
You could print some springs to match the vacuum weight then place the scale directly below it. You could also put the scale inside a baggie (to protect it from dust) and measure the weight of the cotton bag inside the vacuum. Lots of ways to skin this cat.
I also want to caution viewers that atomized dust particles become explosive, so please be careful. I've personally seen a 36" duct full of sawdust explode into a ball of fire, 3 meters in front of my face. A sander hit a steel nail in the log, and caused the entire building to be evacuated. Seriously, be careful with atomized particles.
Weighing the cotton bag alone is just a small part of the dust inside the camvac. The most material is between the metal bin and the cotton bag. When you get the bag out that dust is not inside the bag but underneath it. And you have the paper bag filters around the motors. With cotton sleeves under it.
So weighing the total camvac is the best option. And I agree on the spring part. Making a weighing platform to put the camvac on is the best way to go I think.
@@CapturingDust Thanks for the immediate response.
You can further enhance suction by doing a straight pipe with smooth sides between the vacuum and separator. The ribs of the tube and the U of the pipe are surely reducing efficiency.
Just making the hose shorter, so it doesn't droop like that would be a step in the right direction.
Well done! Curious about how much made it to the cloth and paper bag filters in the Camvac? Especially with the baking powder! Would putting hard tubing between the Camvac and the separator make any difference? I've used a thien baffle system myself for years, which isn't perfect but is good enough for my needs.
I haven’t opened the CamVac yet but I took a quick look trough the inlet and it was white inside 😅. Should be around 200 grams I guess. They’re was a lot what was left behind in the hose and separator.
Good stuff! That triple motor extractor looks interesting
I think you need to do a workshop tour too! Would love to see how you've maximised the space.
Hi Nick! Thx for your response. The triple motor CamVac is the best extractor for the average workshop according to Dennis from Hooked on Wood;
m.th-cam.com/video/e_WJ9DRAVRU/w-d-xo.html
My workshop is 100% inspired by watching his videos. Only with my own twist.
It is a result of a process that started out in 2020 with many little steps and one big vision that you see now as a result.
I try to make a video about it during my Christmas holidays. My studio workshop is in the attic and actually my whole house is furnished as a large design studio for developing creativity. And I share a one car garage for my larger tools that is a 15 minute walk away from my studio.
looking forward to the self build multi motor vac.
Can you add specs for power consumption? I worry that I won't be able to power it from a single socket in my shop.
The motor I bought is 1100 Watt each on 230v.
For the triple motor CamVac the startup power when all the motors are enabled was to much for the fuse. It was delivered with the switches turned on.
When I turn them on one by one it works fine!
Also, I think the final stage of this design is less-than-optimal. Use the centrifugal force from a smaller diameter and a little twist to accelerate the fine particles to the outside tube, then have baffles with holes that swirl that airflow into a bucket/filter.
Yes that is the plan. More like this;
patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/a8/9d/6f/19aad9605ed003/US20080006011A1.pdf
To measure weight and remove the dead weight you can have a 50-50 stick on a rope and a 25kg counterweight (or what you need to cancel the motor and bin) and now the only weight left is the dust
Yes I that was the other option indeed. Only I had only one garden tile left for it and that was not enough weight 😅.
Found out you also can buy a Precision balance for 32kg at 0.1 grams accuracy. It’s just 1750€ 🤔
www.henkmaas.nl/products/precisiebalans-pbl/
+1 on the counterweight. Using the lever reduces the effective sensitivity of the scale.
Bill Pentz recommends 4+ feet of straight run before going into the inlet. Probably applicable to the separator inlet and the vac inlet in this case too.
It all looks pretty amazing. Have you thought about electrostatic charge. The flow of the particels seems to be affected by it. keep it on, cheers
I assume this is a major factor in the flour result as well. Even noticed it myself in my own tests of this design.
Ruud is probably right that the PVC version has less static charge buildup than the acrylic.
There is a way to reduce static: inject electrons. I only know one way on top of my head and it's not dust safe: heated electric grating like in old CRT.
I added copper tape on one side in each tube in the PVC version. Only did not connect it to ground yet. It is something on the list though to get it nicely integrated. I also noticed a slight static charge a while cleaning out the bins.
@@BartCerneels You can also add humidity (water).
Would you consider a video on your air cleaner box? Seems DIY but really nice.
I build it two years ago as a cheap(er) version of the Airbo Aircleaner AC2 that is +1500€ for where I live. I used their filters including the HEPA H13 filter and built the rest of 12mm plywood. And used the shaper for the covers. Made mine for 500€ I guess. Not really DIY budget style😅.
When I would do it again i would use more 3D printed parts I think for better airflow inside. And not the Hepa filter but cheaper filters and go the route of using a fan with a bigger airflow so air in the room will be processed more times each hour.
Now the hepa filter is a big pressure loss and effect the airflow to much so air is not cleaned that often per hour compared with a less rated filter.
It is definitely on the list of builds that I would like to 🎥 with potential to upgrade.
Once again, an excellent video - I’ve learned a lot from it. When the time comes, I’ll use your results in building my own dust extraction system.
Have you considered using a water filter as well? Being able to filter everything completely and then only needing to dispose of and refill the water would be fantastic!
My plan is to start by building a smaller version, like a shop vac, and then scale it up once my workshop is ready.
Have you also thought about making the impeller yourself? What type of motor were you thinking of using?
Thanks again for your great videos, and enjoy!
Hi Pim! Thx for your lovely message!
It’s hard to make a test video interesting I noticed while making it. So had to combine some hobbies and really enjoyed making this one!
As far as the shopvac version. I ordered a 100mm pvc tube at baptist to make one to fit in a systainer or bosch boxx system. On my patreon I already did a update on that process.
Only scaling it down is not the way to go I think because my plunge cut saw produces more dust than one 150mm tube can handle now connected to my Festool midi. Maybe the smaller diameter does the trick though. Need to speedbuild that first I think 🤔. My engineering hat was thinking of a centrifugal separation tube lite they use for helicopters or tanks.
On the CamVac motor I ordered this one:
hevo-shop.com/Staubsaugermotoren/230-v-trocken/saugmotor-230-v-1100-watt-zweistufig-tp.html
They also make versions capable to handle water and I was thinking to use that to only for my planer I like to make the dry version first because I really need that one as fast as possible 😅
I saw Dyson Kinetic cyclone units (or a used vacuum for way cheaper probably) are still available, getting one of those and reverse engineering it may be neat!
What happens if you supply dust ast more realistic rates? Like the 6kg/hour mentioned for your planer?
I think that would be around 99.7%
The planer produces the dust with a lot of air volume in between the shavings.
I noticed that the dust in the gutter was more compact and dense. So a better test would be to sprinkle the dust in front of the suction hose and let the hose suck it in.
Now with the gutter sometimes big chunks of dust are pulled in that will overflow the first stage with material that is not supposed to get into stage 2.
Great video
Great video again Ruud. Houdoe!
Hi, i would not be percieved as the classic turbosafety opinionist, but i t think this time can be worth the risk.
Please consider ATEX equipment due to the explosive properties of regular flour and fine milled sugars. In suspension with air they create very dangerous mix with air and can easily deflagrate, in a test like this the ducted channel adds detonation risk too, due to the confined space in which the mix is create. Thanks, by the way, for the interesting solutions you are making and sharing.
Yes you’re totally right. I was aware of that and informed more or less. Luckily not reached the LEL for that. The CamVac is in no way ATEX rated. I did open the window that is 1.5m away. And had my self built room air cleaner on that was installed at the other side.
Only that wouldn’t eliminate the risk inside the tube and CamVac! Not going to do the flour test again 😅. At least not inside 😃.
Have you messed with fluid separating using a centrifuge?
No I did not because the CamVac is not rated to process water. It stays high on the “to test” list tough 👍
Mooi project. Echter ben ik geen grote fan van de parallelle opvang bakken. Er zou een druk verschil kunnen ontstaan tussen de twee kanten, bijvoorbeeld tijdens het opzuigen van veel materiaal in een korte tijd en een niet perfecte verdeling tussen de twee kanten. Op dat moment gaat er lucht door de opvangbak stromen en effectief materiaal verwijderen. In dit geval stel ik dus 4 opvang bakken voor (of een scheidingswand in elke bak. Hoe dan ook, succes! Houdoe.
Heb je wel een punt. Alleen Harvey doet het ook zo. Ik kon inderdaad wel zien dat er wat wervelingen ontstonden in sommige situaties die niet het resultaat verbeteren. 4 bakken wordt wat te gortig qua kosten. Ik ga eens een keer proberen een tussen schot te laseren die past. Heb de bakken toch redelijk noukeurig in CAD staan. Thx 👍
In a real world situation the fine dust wouldn't enter the separator in such volume. A lower trickle of fine dust would be more realistic I think. Agree on straight pipes at the inlet. Thanks for your videos and showing the results
I agree about the volume. Only when cleaning up the workshop and removing a lot of dust do high mass flows arise. Ideally it should be able to separate that.
14:37 so the upper one is 2 motors? Cause the next scene the upper one is 3 motors
Yes! The next scene I had to correct it to match with the source file and forgot to swap de footage from up to down. Now that I know it, I really itch to adjust it 😅.
Has anyone built this using a harbor freight 2hp dust collector? I feel like that is far more powerful than one of those cam vacs, even with "3 motors". Surely the % eff. has to be better than 90 %
I have built the separator and have a 2HP motor+impellor rated at 1650CFM ready to test it with. I think the Camvac is a nice small package solution but pretty sure it will lack the real power needed. Planning on having the motor in front of the separator and a micro filter at the exhaust of the separator. Mounting everything on a useless wall.
A three motor Camvac is 3kW, which is about 4hp, so on paper despite its size it is *twice as powerful* as the Harbor Freight unit you're describing. It differs in how it _uses_ that power; a HVLP dust collector is designed to generate very high flow rates through unrestricted systems, whereas the Camvac uses some of its power to additionally generate a high static pressure, like a shopvac but with much higher airflow. In a battle between a 2hp HVLP collector and a 2hp Camvac, the dust collector would have a higher flow rate through an unrestricted pipe but its flow rate would drop off sharply with restrictions to the pipe, whereas the Camvac's would not. But given that this particular Camvac is literally twice as powerful as the 2ph collector you're describing I would expect it to win easily even in terms of unrestricted flow rate. And once you restrict the flow with a dust separator, the Camvac's higher static pressure is a significant advantage.
It would be really interesting to see real data on how effective this separator would be with a 2hp HVLP extractor because they're so common. The TL;dr here is that it'll definitely perform worse than the Camvac. But it's also much cheaper...