It feels good to be back! Just a heads up, I will be doing a "Post-Q&A" video for this matchup so don't hesitate to leave any questions/criticisms below. Hope you enjoy!
Will you and the rest of the Fanalysis Council do any video about the few half decent Disney canon things such as Jedi Fallen Order or The Mandalorian ? As massively overrated as the second one can be and despite many of you not even playing the game, just to see if your predictions about Disney Star Wars sinking lower were true years ago (as they turned out to be)..... Otherwise, will you use more NJO or Legacy Eras characters, such as Saba Sebatyne, Mara Jade, Leia Organa Solo, Cade Skywalker, Shado Vao, Ganner Krieg or Tahiri Veila ? Or anyone from the KOTOR and SWTOR games, comics and novels who hasn't been used such as Gnost Dural, Darth Jadus, Darth Marr, Jolee Bindo, Visas Marr or Vrook Lamar ?
Let me be clear. I am a very critical of Darth Vader vs Darth Caedus. But this video made me smile. It did justice to both of my characters and gave a very satisfying verdict. On another note, perhaps you could settle a debate I am having with a friend. I believe that Anakin Skywalker’s lightsaber style is tier 1 in his era and tier 1.5 all time. I believe his downfall comes in his tactics and lackluster use of the force. My friend believes that his blade work is overrated and is tier 3 at best. What do you think? Again wonderful video
“What does Mara Jade look like?” “...What?” *Mace Windu flips Table* “What system you from?” “What?” “WHAT NO SYSTEM I EVER HEARD OF, THEY SPEAK BASIC IN WHAT?” “What-“ “BASIC, KARRABLAST, DO YOU SPEAK IT” -Mace Windu to Darth Caedus
Yes! I speak Basic! DESCRIBE WHAT MARA JADE LOOKS LIKE! What? (Mace cuts off his other arm) (Caedus screams) OH, I'M SORRY! DID I BREAK YOUR CONCENTRATION?!
@@drachna Now I'm curious what that would look and taste like, as well as what it would be made of. My best guess is that the patty would likely be made of Bantha meat.
I’ve been watching the core group of y’all’s videos for about 6 or so years man, and y’all always have the most in depth analysis and outcomes. People who watch eckhartsladder and any of the bigger Star Wars channels should see you guys as well, you’re a pinnacle of Star Wars lore and questions, keep it up man, we appreciate you
Likewise, been following them since 2014 on my old account lol And by far, Evan, Connor, Matt and Antoine (though he gave up on SW) always touched the subjects with so much more depth than many of the big SW channels ever do. Edit : thanks for the heart, Evan hahaha
Goddamnit, I miss the Council Forcecast. Just sometime around the time when Rebels season 2 came out, their content just sort of trailed off and they broke up. I didn't look into it and just sort of forgot about them. I moved on and found other star wars channels. Don't get me wrong, I still like SWT, Thor Skywalker, Geeks and Gamers, and the rest, but these guys were always the first.
@@starwarfan8342 you are aware of fanalysis... right? It’s Reti’s channel that he renamed, and it’s where they post all their group stuff aka what used to be council forcecast
@@starwarfan8342 No kidding. Reti4 has become more of a host channel for the others, and even then the uploads are so far and few in-between. Antoine moved on solely to Avatar contents, with small exceptions such as his Mandalorian videos and JFO streams, but still, he's too burned out. And Matt a.k.a. GreyJedi91 is probably too busy with his job, as his last upload was over 2 years ago and he only appears for the occasional Council videos. One can hope, but still... The other guys are cool but they're too....casual or too focused on the garbage Disney content to really enjoy them.
The real thing about caedus' ability to deal with pain and injuries is that when his arm was cut off with a beskar blade he not only kept fighting but sprayed jaina with his blood to use a dathomiri blood technique which allowed him to track her through the force. Even with his arm cut off just below the shoulder he is still capable of using rare force techniques.
A matchup that I think would make for a really interesting video is Valenthyne Farfalla vs Qui-Gon Jinn. The last Jedi to fight the Sith before they went into hiding pitted against the first Jedi to fight the Sith after their reemergence. I think it’d be a pretty even fight, and thematically, I think it’s really cool.
@Wes Bradley-Taubner Feats alone don't guarantee anything. Remember that Farfalla did assist in taking on Bane. Maul in comparison is nothing to Bane. So it could still go either way
You scared me when you said, "Darth Caedus could be right next you...watching you...right...now." Yes, Caedus is definitely more terrifying than people give him credit. I know Jaina felt conflicted after defeating him, but I'm glad she did!
The reason why Jacen became caedus was that he wanted to prevent his daughter from ending up next to the dark man on the throne of balance. But in the end he just delayed the inevitable
He was a true dark Lord of the Sith so was his Sith Master they both followed the rule of two they didn’t try to change it like previous Sith before them They also followed the tenants of Darth Bane they didn’t kill for sadistic pleasure they only killed when necessary
Am I the only one amazed that Aurra Sing was still alive and still a bounty hunter by the time of Legacy of the Force? Because I did the math (Looking up her age on Wookipedia) and she was in her early 90's at the time of LotF.
It's sort of like how Mara Jade never aged between heir to the empire and Legacy, she has eternal youth, Luke must have it too, because he doesn't seem that much older either
The most underappreciated star wars channel. Literally inspired me to start. Gotta say fam, I don't think there is anyone that can compete with your analysis. Loved the format. Can't wait for your next one.
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES JUST YES. Thank you for showing up at this point in time great master of the versus series it's been a rough one today and you just made the day go from an F to an A in 3 seconds
Ooo. Must be my birthday if i see a new one of these pop up. Now, get greyjedi91 back in the game. The man's voice is the pinnacle of unintentional asmr.
In celebration of the Kotor Remake being announced, I have a suggestion. Revan VS Kyle Katarn Both are extremely skilled duelists, both have immense strength with the force, and both have experience with being on both sides of the force, so I think it would be a fairly even match.
oooh now that would be interesting. As far as combat prowess such as lightsaber mastery and physical augmentations, id say Kyle Katarn trumps Revan where as in terms of mastery with the force or knowledge, i might say Revan. Thing about Revan i feel like is that he's more of a scholar rather than an actual powerhouse. Most of his feats are far too vague and he has knowledge but never able to reach the potential before his death or setbacks such as the imprisonment from Swtor
@Emperor Vowrawn that' a horrible example. That was from a time when Luke didnt even take up the title Grandmaster. That was back when he only recently opened his jedi praxium. GM Luke is the Luke that existed by the end of the Legacy era. To compare using Luke from the sun crusher era is like comparing using Anakin from Phantom Menance
Excellent vid, a much more complete and fair evaluation than your prior Caedus vs Vader matchup. I agree with your conclusions. Jacen/Caedus may have been a pretender in terms of Sith philosophy, but his combative strengths and comprehensive knowledge made him one of the greatest threats to the Galaxy since Palpatine.
The section on "Oneness" reminds me of one of the most simple explanations I have to explain the difference between Sith and Jedi: Sith seek to bend the Force to their will. True Jedi (Qui-Gon, Ahsoka, Legends Luke) seek to bend to the will of the Force.
@The Cambot Doesn't remotely stack up. Jacen's history is much richer and he had more believable causes for his fall : being shoved into a horrific war, lost his younger brother Anakin, tortured, was slowly seduced by two former Sith apprentices (Vergere and Lumiya), and the tipping point was him receiving a vision about a dark man taking over the galaxy and taking his daughter as his apprentice, somehow believing that Luke Skywalker had to be killed to prevent that. He kills Luke's wife, tries to corrupt his son, masterfully takes control over the Galactic Federation (successor to the New Republic). Overall, he was smart, crafty, believed that becoming a Sith was a necessary evil to save the Galaxy from bigger threats. TL;DR: Crylo doesn't even stack up. He was a whiny manchild with daddy issues who lived an overly sheltered life, was groomed since childhood by a voice in his head, yet Luke never noticed or done anything about it. Where Caedus was a powerful scholar, he is just a blunt instrument. Never called his own shots or a clear agenda outside of his Vader fanboy phase or "lEt ThE PaSt DiE", never faced a true opponent yet he was defeated almost everytime. In short, Caedus was shrewd, knowledgeable, had much more success, had his own twisted morals, and was insanely powerful. Kylo is just some dumb edgy kid.
Not to mention, he beat her before he even became a Sith, WHILE she had all the preparation she could ever want. Admittedly I wish it was someone else he killed though, as Zahn was ignored entirely.
Awesome video and well worth the wait xD now excuse me, I'll have to get my snacks ready and watch this beauty. Hope you like the artwork I made for the episode ^^
I've been watching you, Antonio, Grey Jedi, and Jensurai for 6 or 7 years now. I hope you always make Star Wars Versus videos. You guys brought me in like no body else. I went from someone that was kind of meh, about Star Wars to someone that was passionate and knowledgeable because of you and the others. I will always be a fan, and I will always have this deeper understanding of the force and it's forms because of you. Keep going man.
So... I agree with all the advantages and how you doled them out... but a part of me thinks Windu would still come out on top. Ironically enough, it’s the missing hand that you correctly pointed out wouldn’t affect an ordinary space wizard the same as us. Quite frankly, it limits Caedus’ ability to attack with the blade and another weapon, or the blade and lightning. I think a two-handed Caedus could overwhelm Windu, but a one-handed one might be a minuscule bit too linear
OOOOHHHH MAI GAAAAAAAAAAAHD. I'll come back to this comment once I'm done with this beauty. Edit : Now that I fully watched it, this was an absolute treat. Truly shows how your analysis skills have matured, Evan. And it is so satisfying to hear "Darth Caedus, the heir of Vader" uttered, as he truly is. -MakesMeKindaWishYouWouldDoAReduxofVaderVsCaedusDownTheLine- :p
@@naseemweathers8358 And that, in a way, makes him a superior. True, Vader has a better track record of kills, but after Order 66 and being a glorified lapdog put some perspective.
Okay so I’ve just finished this matchup and I have to complement your immense talent at bringing these matchups to life it was truly a cinematic experience. Now I understand that there is a Q&A for this video so I will provide my questions here. In the physical attributes part you make it very known that Caedus’s missing hand matters little due to his great power. Do you feel this specifically about Caedus or could this be said about other hand missing characters such as Darth Traya and Wolf Sazen? What was the decision for these two specific characters why not Mace Windu Vs Kyle Katarn or Exar Kun or Yoda vs Darth Caedus? I’ve noticed that only one matchup this season has not used an NJO character (Grevious Vs Zannah) was there meant to be a specific NJO theme this season?
The battle with Mace Windu Vs. Darth Caedus was a interesting one. It was interesting to see how Mace Windu would stack up against the likes of Darth Caedus in a fight. Boy, I was extremely surprised by this video and the outcome that came out of it. Though I’m glad Darth Caedus was declared the victory at the end. So I can also say I like the format you used in this video. Keep up the amazing work you been doing on these videos. May the Force be with you.
Random Thought: That painting picture of Caedus right at the start of the video looks a little like Evan. Something you want to tell us, Master Nova? Great video that's at your top quality level like always. I also want to praise you for pointing out the difference between being able to handle pain and understanding pain to push through it. Also, and I know this is a bit of a strange thing to say, but I love the fact you're still throwing out the "fucking" every so often. You use it in the perfect emphasis usage that really gets across the nuts-ity of what you're describing. Oness with the Force - I think there are two versions. The Selfless Light Side and the Selfish Dark Side version. Shown by Luke and Sidious respectively. One is about giving themselves to the Light Side, the other is about absolute control. Verdict - Can't really argue with the points raised.
the loop effect would actually help mace in the final moments as he would feed off the lighting or whatever Jacen would throw. leaving Jacen exhausted with nothing left. you know it could happen and he has done it before like that.
Sure, if Caedus was relying on his Sith lightning like Palpie. I don’t think Caedus was relying on the dark side as deeply as Sidious though, he was a much more jack of all trades kind of fighter who would have been more than capable of using lots of other smaller scale force powers together that weren’t so … pure Sith.
@@kirtmanwaring3629 I think that’s the biggest advantage Caedus has. Windu will be going in expecting a Dooku or Sidious, someone who specializes entirely in one fighting style and puts everything into it. Caedus doesn’t do that. Caedus is not ‘the best’ at anything. But he is ‘one of the best’ at so damn much that the only people who aren’t gonna get destroyed by his sheer talent are the demigods and gods of the force, those being Luke, Krayt, Abeloth and the Ones.
@@goroakechi6126 Which ironically makes him the best at that one thing lol. The other thing people forget is he wasn’t at his ceiling when he died, probably not even close. Dude could give Grand Master Luke the fight of his life way before his prime in Force powers or bladework, imagine a 40 year old Caedus who might even win that fight.
Fantastic video man even though i disagree with the final verdict. How about Exar Kun vs. Revan as a matchup? And is the Sith master ranking still to come? Greetings from Germany and thank you for this great video
Always a pleasure to see another vid from you or the other Fanalysis members in my feed and looking forward to the Anakin Skywalker vs. Jaina that you teased in the vid. I'm very much in agreement with the ultimate verdict here and would like to see you continue with the new format. I look forward to seeing more from you in the future. I hope that you or your fellow council members consider doing one of these matchups in the future: 1. Jerec vs. Dooku or Darth Wyyrlok III 2. Corran Horn vs. Yareal Poof or Yaddle 3. Tahiri Veila vs. Adi Galia 4. Rahm Kota vs. Even Piell 5. Oppo Rancisis vs. Saba Sebatyne
1. Dooku 2. Corran, on the basis that we have so little feats from either Poof or Yaddle, though she might pose a bigger threat. 3 & 4. These are actually interesting ones. 5. Same for this one, though I lean towards Saba.
I kind of saw this outcome coming. I couldn't see mace beating caedus. Personally, the opponent I would have chosen for darth caedus would have actually been his other contemporary during this time period, the one who considered him a pretender. Darth Krayt.
@Emperor Vowrawn But Darth Wyyrlock III defeated an ancient Sith in Darth Andeddu, if I recall. So he's obviously really high up there. And yeah, Krayt didn't stomp him, but he defeated him pretty decisively.
@Emperor Vowrawn Caedus was around Kyle's level and did NOT low difficulty defeat him. He was completely matched by him in combat and only won by using his environment. Mind you, that's important as well in a fight, but in terms of actual ability; the fight was anyone's game. Against Luke, he was pretty much going to get killed. No question Caedus is among the strongest Sith in history, prolly only a bit below Sidious or Tenebrae; but he wasn't at their level yet. I think he's actually a relative equal to Reborn Krayt, personally. Around the level of Kyp and Jaina; around the level of a NJO High Jedi Council Member. But yes, Krayt was talking too much shit about a Sith that would obliterate him if they had met during the Second Galactic Civil War.
@@stephenjenkins7971 Yeah I’m still salty they didn’t give Caedus more time to get closer to his potential in LOTF. Even spreading the story out over 5 years would have let him mature and refine his force skills. Krayt was right to dismiss Caedus but only because TOR wouldn't give him the time to really come into his own.
Shatterpoint is the ultimate form of precognition. What would be really interesting to see would be Mace Windu versus Darth Krayt. Both Masters of that ability, both having taken it to its nth degree, though Krayt more so than Windu.
I'm glad that you finally did Jacen solo Justice most people that ever use him in a matchup always has a bias against him and underestimates his capabilities.
Mace is definetly the best Saber duelist of his age. He knew all seven forms of Saber combat. But caedus an Luke learned not only all 7 forms but created new forms as part of the new order like the 3 point defense. Caedus tought Luke it was possible to become one with the force an temporarily overload the body with it to pull off impossible feats. Caedus has been trained by every force sensitive throughout the galaxy during his time. From the aing ti to the night sisters. Not to mention his craftiness as well as his raw force potential of well over 20,000. Lucas has stated Vader in his prime before his accident is anywhere from 30 to 40,000 an Luke is just as high as his father same as lea. So I'm thinking caedus was around 23000 to 25000 in raw force power. cause lowers through generations. Honestly mace needed to be anakins master. He could of trained him properly an tought him to control the darkside through the light. But that's another discussion. Point is caedus would mark mace because of his raw force power an Saber skills. It be even worse then that force juggernaut you were talking about! He .ight have a chance if your refer to weakened caedus with one hand an bum knee. But in his prime hands down. Caedus wouldn't hesitate.
Hell yeah good to see new Vs content!! I’m going to call Darth Caedus simply cause he could contend with Grandmaster Luke Skywalker and would’ve killed Jaina if not for Luke’s intervention as well as being a scholar of both Light and Dark side of the force making it not a typical Sith that Mace Windu be use to dealing with whom Windu simply could be able to dispatch most Dark Side users with Vaapad as well as Shatterpoint though I don’t know if it’ll be as effective on Caedus and he does have sufficient knowledge though not absolute mastery on all 7 lightsaber forms as most NJO Jedi do. Anyways going to sit back n enjoy!! Hope to see more I’d like to see Yoda vs Emperor Vitiate Kyle Katarn vs Exar Kun Nomi Sunrider vs Kreia/Darth Traya Kyp Durron vs Galen Marek Satele Shan vs Obi Wan Kenobi (during and after Order 66) Lumiya vs Darth Wyyrlok III Darth Bane vs Kol Skywalker
It is always a treat to see the versus series Evan. Amazing job as always and prop the longest video I've ever watch. I actually wanted to read the New Jedi Order series to get some much closer insight plus I want to learn how to write fight scenes for my novel since you've praise the Jacen Solo vs Mara Jade battle. Can't wait to see the Anakin vs Jaina Solo verses video (though i'm sure Jaina will unfortunately stomp Anakin)
Man I just realized, as good as The Clone Wars is, we don't get to see a lot of Mace's power except in books and the miniseries. Either way, he's incredibly strong, has a cool demeanor but ended up embodying part of the reason the Jedi were heavily flawed.
@@fridaynightnicktoons6885 AGREED. All of grievous fights, ahsoka vs maul, (maul is incredibly inconsistent in all media except legends books which pisses me off) almost all rebels duels except ahsoka vs vader, maul vs Kenobi and vader vs kanan and ezra(kanan vs grand inquisitor ok. He's a decent writer and understand star wars better than most but he's not the messiah fans claim he is.
@@fridaynightnicktoons6885 To be fair, Grievous was only ever pitted against opponents who were known to be on or near his level (Fisto, Kenobi), and even then, often gave them a good fight or outright kicked their asses. While Ahsoka briefly held out against him (a testament to her skill as Anakin's apprentice, which was the point of showing her fighting him), she was easily overpowered and barely escaped with her life both times. Against the Gungans, Grievous was just toying with them, plain and simple. He didn't take them seriously, he was overconfident and paid the price with his stupidity. Maul too, is incredibly overconfident which is why Kanan managed to fling him off a ledge and Ahsoka managed to hold her own, despite being exhausted and putting her all into it.
1:32:50 Not necessarily given how rare it is but if there weren't limits to what a user could do with that then time would begin screwing itself within seconds if a Sith like Palpatine learnt it. If Palpatine discovered it later in his life then he'd try to make his reign permanent by doing things like adjusting Anakin's victories and defeats to forge the perfect apprentice, corrupt the Skywalker twins and infiltrate and destroy the Rebel Alliance leaders he had brought to the Death Star in The Force Unleashed before the Alliance was even formed... and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Personally, I see it as only allowing the most minor changes that would have no impact on the timeline as a whole and would instead have sentimental value to the individual performing it.
I recently re-watched the clone wars micro series as well as went through the Legends martial arts material, and I think that when Mace went to using physical strikes, he was using the Broken-Gate martial arts form enhanced by "Shatterpoint".
Love these match ups!!!! I'd love to see Ben Skywalker matched up against a few characters. Darth Maul, or Dooku, Ventress, Aura Sing, ROTJ era Luke or even ROTS Obi-Wan and Anakin. The last two might be a push, but he held his own against multiple Sith and even Abeloth, so I reckon he would be an interesting one to look at...
Yes! Thank you for this! We have been waiting, and you have given it to us! You and only the other star wars versus content creators know your deep understanding and knowledge of the lore, not those others who fail to understand, like seththeprogrammer's vader vs kylo ren. No offense meant towards seth, but its clear he only watched the films and used that as a basis. Star wars isn't his forte, and he should just stick with anime.
God, that video was embarassingly bad and shallow. He kept overhyping Crylo on the basis of taking feats from the comics and movies at face value, while using Disney Vader, who's essentially a more broken take on EU Vader, minus the painstaking retooling process or facing enemies of high caliber.
@@yrooxrksvi7142 I also hated it. Seth implied maul was "weak". Even if he's only referring to Disney Canon, Maul was NOT weak and far from that term. He held his own against few of the best in the Jedi Order such as Mace Windu and aayla secura and matched sidious briefly blow for blow with a rage boost following the death of savage. Did he even watch TCW or even read any of the canon novels or comics for that matter, such as son of dathomir? TPM, TCW, even Rebels maul were master level duelists and threats, which he wants to compare kylo to? If he wants to talk about Disney canon, then where was TCW and rebels, where it further continued maul's story and gave him more feats? But no, lets just mention his loss against kenobi when he was a padawan, when it was made clear that he lost due to arrogance and overconfidence which essentially made him drop his guard. And yet Seth still says "he's a bad duelist". What a joke. Kenobi won due to luck, not skill. Meanwhile, kylo lost to plot armor Mary Sue in the first movie, stalemated her in the second, and she held her own against him in the third and his only noticeable feats against force wielders were killing low level padawans.
@@lapplandkun9273 See, this is why I can't stand when "big" channels do Star Wars matchups. They can't be bothered to do half of a research, only take movie feats at face value, and they mostly sell their biased winner on hype. Hell, all the feats he listed for Kylo from the Visual Guides amount to nothing but empty lipservice completely contraddicted by the movies. Except for the quote about him drawing from contrasting philosophies, that was the only accurate one.
Absolutely loved this video! It’s been a while since I’ve engaged with _Star Wars_ in general, but I decided to check out my favorite VS channels out of nostalgia and found your best video yet. I’m late for the Q&A, but I don’t have any questions. You were as thorough as possible, and I agree completely with the analysis. Mace Windu should be the superior swordsman, but it would be more about nuance in technique than due to the speed, strength, deftness, and flexibility of Caedus’ bladework. Caedus is of course the superior Force wielder. But most importantly, he is one that brings the might of his power to bear in duels between those who rival him, unlike Darth Vader, who tended to rely purely on swordplay if he couldn’t outright dominate his opponent. _Legacy of the Force_ was in my opinion one of the weakest installments of the _Star Wars_ franchise pre-Disney. But the abysmal Disney Trilogy has appraised the value of LOTF and FOTJ somewhat in my opinion. And the vs video also helped raise my respect for Darth Caedus further, as I’m sure your Jaina Solo video will do for my thoughts on her. Awesome work!
11:15 Actually the strength of the helmet is the reason he got a concussion. A concussion happens because your head accelerates from the impact. A harder helmet transfers more impact rather than absorb it. Normally helmets actually are made to crack and dent to help absorb the impact of the blow. Making it from Bascar is good against blasters and lightsabers but makes you more vulnerable to blunt force.
Very well produced video but I disagree with the outcome. While I agree with the fact that Caedus is a stronger force user than Mace I think Vapaad wasn't taken into account as much as it deserved here. While Caedus could definitely compete with Windu as a lightsaber duelist and outstrips him in force abilities I think the Vapaad affect more than makes up for this. Caedus needs to use his full power to defeat Windu, he can't without it and that's where I disagree with the verdict, Mace would win in the same way that he did against Sidious. Just my opinion!
When discussing Caedus peple fail to realise that his great understanding of the force and unparalleled skill in specific fields and techniques don't necessairly make him as strong in raw power. He wasn't ever stated as more powerfull than Vader, he was said to have a superior command of the force. We don't really know Mace's raw power but in my opinion efficiency of Vaapad does relly on it. Otherwise he wouldn't sustain the dark side power of the most powerfull sith ever, Sidious. That power would consume him. And with that I must agree with your opinion, as Mace knows maybe less compared to Caedus, but his power and skill in specific fields like Vaapad and Shatterpoint make him exactly what it takes to kill Darth Caedus.
Well when you are talking about Vaapad it works best when dealing with a pure vessel of the darkside. When fighting sideous mace falls into the most perfect example of Vapaad hes managed to pull off because it's the first time hes faced a pure irredeemable darksider. Caedus is a bit more complex and not exactly pure evil like sideous so I'm not sure if Mace would be able to pull off a similar level of vapaad. Palpatine differes from a lot of sith in that he has no conflict no light side in him. He didnt fall to the darkside hes was just evil and jumped into the sith with both feet and no inner conflict. He was happy for an excuse to murder his parents there was no fall he was already evil. Its actually being pure evil that makes him so vulnerable to the use of Vapaad.
@@ryanwalker8843 Not really, when youre a darksider your a darksider, and vapaad will always have an advantage over that. Also, George Lucas himself admitted that Mace was in a normal state against darth Sidious and not his ultimate vappad form. Overall mace is simply the more experienced and effective combatant and mace would win
@@theovermansailor5519 Nah, mace aint beating caedus. Mace's absolutely best feat is barely outskilling and beating ROTS sidious, while DE luke outskilled and beat a more skilled DE sidious much easier. Base mace was troubled by general griveous and matched by count dooku. Darth Caedus has stomped kyle katarn and 3 of lukes strongest students at once in seconds. His command over the force is stated to surpass darth vaders and he was widely accepted as a rival to prime GM luke. Hell in inferno, caedus dueled with a bloodlusted GM luke, and tough he clearly lost, not only did he survive, but he injured luke bad enough for him to spend a week in a bacta tank and has shown great skill and intellect by holding his own against lukes dueling skill, using the environment to occasionally gain the edge on him and has even tricked luke with force illusions. Caedus massacres windu, he is much smarter, a LOT LOT LOT more powerful, more versatile, physically miles superior and even more skilled than him.
@@SouthpawsRule217 Luke intentionally didn't kill caedus in their duel, caedus was lukes family member and luke already decapitated lumiya so his anger was quenched, also he wasn't in an appropriate condition while fighting caedus, thus he could inflict the wounds on him. If Luke really wanted to kill caedus, then trust me he easily could have. Sidious was equally as powerful when he fought Mace as when he fought Luke And also remember, Luke had a very tough time beating sidious, that too with lea's help, mace would've done so on his own without problems, also Mace beat grievous & would've killed him had he not escaped & dooku barely managed to match Mace for a short while before running away, so your wrong again The only advantage caedus has over mace are force powers, but mace has him beat in terms of physicality and lightsaber skills. Your utterly deluded & dumb if u think caedus stomps mace. It's a close fight & will depend whether mace closes the distance & turns this into primarily a hand to hand duel or whether caedus gets to use his force powers more, although close & tough, I still think mace wins because he's smart & capable enough to prevent caedus from relying on his force powers & beat him like he did with sidious
Actually correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure Caedus got his arm cut off with a sword. I remember listening to an audio book and Caedus was screaming when it happened. He then threw blood on his sister or someone else I believe to track em.
Sith style crystals would be freaking amazing with the sharpened emitter the dark saber has. I’d argue they’d have a greater chance to break a standard lightsaber blade. Also, I think nano droids have the highest likelihood of halting dark side degradation over any other method. If they have the potential to turn a person into a bomb, they certainly have the potential to preserve a force user’s body through great strain using the dark side of the force. Id argue that with the right programming, they’d possibly make a being nearly shatterpoint proof.
I can’t stand the results of the match because of my Mace Windu bias but I’ll take it with pride that he can give Caedus an excellent fight! I won’t argue with the EU character’s OP abilities! You’re my guy evan! ✌🏾
I never knew how OP Darth Caedus was until I watched this video. If I didn't know better, I would think he was the product of a fanfiction writer high on crack.
@@muhdaqeel7330 Idk. Cade is a lot of improvisation mixed with hard training before he left the Order. In many ways, Cade was a hard counter to Darth Krayt, but I doubt he could beat Caedus.
@@stephenjenkins7971 He would put up an awesome fight, though. Caedus uses many of the same tools that Cade is familar with like darts, blasters and vibroblades, so that advantage is negated. Cade has also fought down the best the One Sith had to offer in Nihl and Talon and is a highly skilled fighter in his own right. Personally, I would rank Cade Skywalker as a high-level Jedi Knight/low-level Jedi Master after he defeated Krayt. Where would you rank him?
@@muhdaqeel7330 Nihl wasn't entirely all that impressive; the man relied on surprise attacks and guile to win his battles more than martial skill. He claimed credit in killing Kol Skywalker after Kol was tired in mowing down other Sith Lords by himself. Beating Talon is more impressive, but her defense is pretty spotty, and Cade's completely unpredictable fighting style was suited for taking her down when it wasn't through Force abilities. But yeah, Cade has a lot of skills with other weaponry, but he doesn't usually employ anything but a blaster, his Force abilities, or his lightsaber when facing Force Users. So it's not like he's decked out like Caedus is typically. I'd also place him as a Low Jedi Master level by the time he defeated Krayt. The character was extremely powerful for a guy that ran away from his Jedi past like the plague for almost a decade.
When it comes to physical feats I think it is important to note that not only did Caedus hold his own against Luke but Luke had a sneak attack advantage with caedus actually believing Luke to be dead. Luke started the fight going for Caedus' kidney and scoring a hit which would cause a huge amount of pain through the rest of the fight. Quite an advantage for Luke that didn't result in a win. And while caedus was choking Luke out it was Ben Skywalker who stabbed caedus to free Luke from the choke. As for windu vs palpatine windu had 3 allies in the fight which took a lot of palpatine's attention early in the fight and arguably palpatine let windu get him down to manipulate anakin. Windu didn't beat palpatine in a fair fight is what I'm saying. One on one from the start without palpatine trying to manipulate anakin during the fight and windu would be toast.
@@wesbradley-taubner7838 so in the first few seconds of the fight when palpatine has some level of surprise with his force scream and opening attacks he had to use up three kill strikes and some defensive moves against the other 3 jedi before moving on to mace. During that time mace was able to see a bit of palpatine's style and recover from the force scream. Now I think that if palpatine had focused his opening attacks on only one person instead of four mace would have been overwhelmed in the opening seconds before getting his Vaapad going. You also have to realize that palpatine sensed that anakin was coming and needed anakin to find them in a situation where he could manipulate anakin into betraying the jedi. So anakin walking in on palpatine standing over four corpses showing how immensely powerful he is wouldn't have had the same effect as palpatine seeming like he is defeated and weak and mace talking about murdering him because he is too powerful. Mace being the most aggressive jedi in the group might have even been why palpatine chose him to survive the fight. So in my opinion, if we are being this off what we saw in the movies and not some obscure book or comic or something, we can't really say mace won in a fair fight. At best he survived because palpatine focused his initial attack on the other jedi and at worst palpatine was playing with him the whole time to manipulate anakin.
It feels good to be back! Just a heads up, I will be doing a "Post-Q&A" video for this matchup so don't hesitate to leave any questions/criticisms below. Hope you enjoy!
When will someone from the verus series make a matchup for Set Harth?
Which lightsaber forms are your personal favorites, and why?
Will you and the rest of the Fanalysis Council do any video about the few half decent Disney canon things such as Jedi Fallen Order or The Mandalorian ? As massively overrated as the second one can be and despite many of you not even playing the game, just to see if your predictions about Disney Star Wars sinking lower were true years ago (as they turned out to be).....
Otherwise, will you use more NJO or Legacy Eras characters, such as Saba Sebatyne, Mara Jade, Leia Organa Solo, Cade Skywalker, Shado Vao, Ganner Krieg or Tahiri Veila ? Or anyone from the KOTOR and SWTOR games, comics and novels who hasn't been used such as Gnost Dural, Darth Jadus, Darth Marr, Jolee Bindo, Visas Marr or Vrook Lamar ?
Still want my Ki Adi vs Jolee matchup
Let me be clear. I am a very critical of Darth Vader vs Darth Caedus. But this video made me smile. It did justice to both of my characters and gave a very satisfying verdict.
On another note, perhaps you could settle a debate I am having with a friend. I believe that Anakin Skywalker’s lightsaber style is tier 1 in his era and tier 1.5 all time. I believe his downfall comes in his tactics and lackluster use of the force. My friend believes that his blade work is overrated and is tier 3 at best. What do you think? Again wonderful video
“What does Mara Jade look like?”
“...What?”
*Mace Windu flips Table*
“What system you from?”
“What?”
“WHAT NO SYSTEM I EVER HEARD OF, THEY SPEAK BASIC IN WHAT?”
“What-“
“BASIC, KARRABLAST, DO YOU SPEAK IT”
-Mace Windu to Darth Caedus
Yes! I speak Basic!
DESCRIBE WHAT MARA JADE LOOKS LIKE!
What?
(Mace cuts off his other arm)
(Caedus screams)
OH, I'M SORRY! DID I BREAK YOUR CONCENTRATION?!
Thank you Akechi very cool
'BIG TAATOOINI BURGER!'
@@drachna Now I'm curious what that would look and taste like, as well as what it would be made of. My best guess is that the patty would likely be made of Bantha meat.
@@TwinMoonwing SAY WHAT AGAIN, I DARE YOU I DOUBLE DARE YOU KARRABLAST!!! SAY WHAT ONE MORE GODDAMN TIME!
Kylo Ren: I'm the legacy of Vader👿
Darth Caedus to Luke: Should I tell him? 🤔
I’ve been watching the core group of y’all’s videos for about 6 or so years man, and y’all always have the most in depth analysis and outcomes. People who watch eckhartsladder and any of the bigger Star Wars channels should see you guys as well, you’re a pinnacle of Star Wars lore and questions, keep it up man, we appreciate you
Likewise, been following them since 2014 on my old account lol
And by far, Evan, Connor, Matt and Antoine (though he gave up on SW) always touched the subjects with so much more depth than many of the big SW channels ever do.
Edit : thanks for the heart, Evan hahaha
Goddamnit, I miss the Council Forcecast. Just sometime around the time when Rebels season 2 came out, their content just sort of trailed off and they broke up. I didn't look into it and just sort of forgot about them. I moved on and found other star wars channels. Don't get me wrong, I still like SWT, Thor Skywalker, Geeks and Gamers, and the rest, but these guys were always the first.
@@starwarfan8342 you are aware of fanalysis... right?
It’s Reti’s channel that he renamed, and it’s where they post all their group stuff aka what used to be council forcecast
@@starwarfan8342 No kidding. Reti4 has become more of a host channel for the others, and even then the uploads are so far and few in-between. Antoine moved on solely to Avatar contents, with small exceptions such as his Mandalorian videos and JFO streams, but still, he's too burned out. And Matt a.k.a. GreyJedi91 is probably too busy with his job, as his last upload was over 2 years ago and he only appears for the occasional Council videos. One can hope, but still...
The other guys are cool but they're too....casual or too focused on the garbage Disney content to really enjoy them.
The real thing about caedus' ability to deal with pain and injuries is that when his arm was cut off with a beskar blade he not only kept fighting but sprayed jaina with his blood to use a dathomiri blood technique which allowed him to track her through the force.
Even with his arm cut off just below the shoulder he is still capable of using rare force techniques.
The legend himself has returned in our time of great sorrow
Agreed
Sthu
@@dazdavis7896 sorry, can you translate that for me
@@silascraven means shut the hell up. In other words he's being a jackass
@@CalebMations p
A matchup that I think would make for a really interesting video is Valenthyne Farfalla vs Qui-Gon Jinn. The last Jedi to fight the Sith before they went into hiding pitted against the first Jedi to fight the Sith after their reemergence. I think it’d be a pretty even fight, and thematically, I think it’s really cool.
I got another idea Oppo rancissus vs. Qu Rahn
I’d probably go with farfalla since he had years of combat experience fighting the sith
@Greensaber- Gemini. there wasn’t much that farfala could do since bane was essentially a near unstoppable juggernaut due to his orbalisk armor
@Wes Bradley-Taubner Feats alone don't guarantee anything. Remember that Farfalla did assist in taking on Bane. Maul in comparison is nothing to Bane. So it could still go either way
I like this idea! I always liked Farfalla, too.
"If only you knew how long I have been waiting for this."
Ah I get it, Palpatine’s words in the ROTS novel
You scared me when you said, "Darth Caedus could be right next you...watching you...right...now." Yes, Caedus is definitely more terrifying than people give him credit. I know Jaina felt conflicted after defeating him, but I'm glad she did!
The reason why Jacen became caedus was that he wanted to prevent his daughter from ending up next to the dark man on the throne of balance. But in the end he just delayed the inevitable
He was a true dark Lord of the Sith so was his Sith Master they both followed the rule of two they didn’t try to change it like previous Sith before them
They also followed the tenants of Darth Bane they didn’t kill for sadistic pleasure they only killed when necessary
The last time I was this early, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan was rescuing Queen Amidala
Am I the only one amazed that Aurra Sing was still alive and still a bounty hunter by the time of Legacy of the Force? Because I did the math (Looking up her age on Wookipedia) and she was in her early 90's at the time of LotF.
that lady had so much anger inside, little things like time or logic couldn't stop her from making herself the galaxy's problem
She is implied to have some Anzati heritage and Anzati have REALLY long lifespans.
@@EvanNova95 1,400 years, I think?
It's sort of like how Mara Jade never aged between heir to the empire and Legacy, she has eternal youth, Luke must have it too, because he doesn't seem that much older either
@@iceomistar4302 The power of the LightSide goes a long way. :)
The most underappreciated star wars channel. Literally inspired me to start.
Gotta say fam, I don't think there is anyone that can compete with your analysis.
Loved the format. Can't wait for your next one.
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES JUST YES. Thank you for showing up at this point in time great master of the versus series it's been a rough one today and you just made the day go from an F to an A in 3 seconds
Ooo. Must be my birthday if i see a new one of these pop up. Now, get greyjedi91 back in the game. The man's voice is the pinnacle of unintentional asmr.
In celebration of the Kotor Remake being announced, I have a suggestion. Revan VS Kyle Katarn
Both are extremely skilled duelists, both have immense strength with the force, and both have experience with being on both sides of the force, so I think it would be a fairly even match.
That would be a sight to see
oooh now that would be interesting. As far as combat prowess such as lightsaber mastery and physical augmentations, id say Kyle Katarn trumps Revan where as in terms of mastery with the force or knowledge, i might say Revan.
Thing about Revan i feel like is that he's more of a scholar rather than an actual powerhouse. Most of his feats are far too vague and he has knowledge but never able to reach the potential before his death or setbacks such as the imprisonment from Swtor
my apologies, I read the comment as revan vs kylo ren. I'm blind 😂
In my opinion Kyle Katarn would take this one.
@Emperor Vowrawn that' a horrible example. That was from a time when Luke didnt even take up the title Grandmaster. That was back when he only recently opened his jedi praxium.
GM Luke is the Luke that existed by the end of the Legacy era. To compare using Luke from the sun crusher era is like comparing using Anakin from Phantom Menance
Grandfather vs Granddaughter. I'm already ready lol.
I haven’t read all the New Jedi Order era books yet. Aside from her victory over Darth Caedus, what are Jaina Solo’s other dueling feats?
@@darylsdesigns6679 Best to watch the video where she's pitted against Darth Plageus
I'm gonna say Anakin will win but by the skin of his teeth.
@@parkersummerlin865 Maybe
DW: [inhales] I HAVA A GRANDDAUGHTER TOO?! I'M A GRANDPA! I MUST TELL EVERYONE!!!
Excellent vid, a much more complete and fair evaluation than your prior Caedus vs Vader matchup. I agree with your conclusions. Jacen/Caedus may have been a pretender in terms of Sith philosophy, but his combative strengths and comprehensive knowledge made him one of the greatest threats to the Galaxy since Palpatine.
The section on "Oneness" reminds me of one of the most simple explanations I have to explain the difference between Sith and Jedi: Sith seek to bend the Force to their will. True Jedi (Qui-Gon, Ahsoka, Legends Luke) seek to bend to the will of the Force.
No, by all means, please just end Tenten's misery already. She has, nor had anything to live for.
As Lord Odion would say, "Just end the pain."
I'm a simple man, I see my homie Darth Caedus/Jacen Solo, I press like.
Right in the face of Crylo Ren, ha !
Same
@The Cambot Doesn't remotely stack up. Jacen's history is much richer and he had more believable causes for his fall : being shoved into a horrific war, lost his younger brother Anakin, tortured, was slowly seduced by two former Sith apprentices (Vergere and Lumiya), and the tipping point was him receiving a vision about a dark man taking over the galaxy and taking his daughter as his apprentice, somehow believing that Luke Skywalker had to be killed to prevent that. He kills Luke's wife, tries to corrupt his son, masterfully takes control over the Galactic Federation (successor to the New Republic). Overall, he was smart, crafty, believed that becoming a Sith was a necessary evil to save the Galaxy from bigger threats.
TL;DR: Crylo doesn't even stack up. He was a whiny manchild with daddy issues who lived an overly sheltered life, was groomed since childhood by a voice in his head, yet Luke never noticed or done anything about it. Where Caedus was a powerful scholar, he is just a blunt instrument. Never called his own shots or a clear agenda outside of his Vader fanboy phase or "lEt ThE PaSt DiE", never faced a true opponent yet he was defeated almost everytime.
In short, Caedus was shrewd, knowledgeable, had much more success, had his own twisted morals, and was insanely powerful.
Kylo is just some dumb edgy kid.
@The Cambot Kylo Ren is trash, you can't compare trash to something good. It's just wrong man!
@The Cambot kylo is a wimp. Jacen on the other hand had character and motivation
Nicely done. Great to see Jaina is coming back to Versus. Ani is about to get dat WORK from Jaina!
That was epic!!! So happy that Caedus emerged as the victor (it truly was “a surprise to be sure, but a welcome one” moment)
MY BOI IS BACK!!!
This video was great. This was a great breakdown of caedus, very happy to see his character and abilities get such justice on this channel.
I think its very impressive that he was able to beat Mara Jade. Sad, sick ,but impressive.
Not to mention, he beat her before he even became a Sith, WHILE she had all the preparation she could ever want.
Admittedly I wish it was someone else he killed though, as Zahn was ignored entirely.
Awesome video and well worth the wait xD now excuse me, I'll have to get my snacks ready and watch this beauty.
Hope you like the artwork I made for the episode ^^
Sees a 2 hour video from Evan with one of my favorite characters.
The Force is with us!
"I've been looking forward to this"
I've been watching you, Antonio, Grey Jedi, and Jensurai for 6 or 7 years now. I hope you always make Star Wars Versus videos. You guys brought me in like no body else. I went from someone that was kind of meh, about Star Wars to someone that was passionate and knowledgeable because of you and the others. I will always be a fan, and I will always have this deeper understanding of the force and it's forms because of you.
Keep going man.
So... I agree with all the advantages and how you doled them out... but a part of me thinks Windu would still come out on top. Ironically enough, it’s the missing hand that you correctly pointed out wouldn’t affect an ordinary space wizard the same as us. Quite frankly, it limits Caedus’ ability to attack with the blade and another weapon, or the blade and lightning. I think a two-handed Caedus could overwhelm Windu, but a one-handed one might be a minuscule bit too linear
I agree, however I feel like his massive force strength would come out on top
You definitely should use this style of format from now on. I would never have thought to come up with an idea like it. Nice work.
I really LOVE how in depth you go and how you back your hypothesis with citation! Keep it up!
That was Brilliant! Thank you!🙏🏻
I love Darth Caedus and hope to see some more of him!
Yeaassssssssss
For tears I've years for an actual good Anakin verses video
This channel is a distillation of everything I love about SW: depth.
LOVED this style bro. keep this up and we'll have your best season to date on our hands
OOOOHHHH MAI GAAAAAAAAAAAHD. I'll come back to this comment once I'm done with this beauty.
Edit : Now that I fully watched it, this was an absolute treat. Truly shows how your analysis skills have matured, Evan. And it is so satisfying to hear "Darth Caedus, the heir of Vader" uttered, as he truly is.
-MakesMeKindaWishYouWouldDoAReduxofVaderVsCaedusDownTheLine- :p
I’d be very down for that. Evan’s opinions have clearly changed for the better on Caedus since then, and I’m all for it.
@@goroakechi6126 Exactly, and the rundowns would be pretty much layed out for both characters.
He is nothing like Vader if anything he’s more like Sidious in the way he manipulated event so he could assume power of the galactic alliance
@@naseemweathers8358 And that, in a way, makes him a superior. True, Vader has a better track record of kills, but after Order 66 and being a glorified lapdog put some perspective.
Okay so I’ve just finished this matchup and I have to complement your immense talent at bringing these matchups to life it was truly a cinematic experience. Now I understand that there is a Q&A for this video so I will provide my questions here.
In the physical attributes part you make it very known that Caedus’s missing hand matters little due to his great power. Do you feel this specifically about Caedus or could this be said about other hand missing characters such as Darth Traya and Wolf Sazen?
What was the decision for these two specific characters why not Mace Windu Vs Kyle Katarn or Exar Kun or Yoda vs Darth Caedus?
I’ve noticed that only one matchup this season has not used an NJO character (Grevious Vs Zannah) was there meant to be a specific NJO theme this season?
Yoda vs. Caedus is a missmatch.
@Emperor Vowrawnhe wouldn't stomp him but would defeat him
The battle with Mace Windu Vs. Darth Caedus was a interesting one. It was interesting to see how Mace Windu would stack up against the likes of Darth Caedus in a fight. Boy, I was extremely surprised by this video and the outcome that came out of it. Though I’m glad Darth Caedus was declared the victory at the end. So I can also say I like the format you used in this video. Keep up the amazing work you been doing on these videos. May the Force be with you.
Random Thought: That painting picture of Caedus right at the start of the video looks a little like Evan. Something you want to tell us, Master Nova?
Great video that's at your top quality level like always. I also want to praise you for pointing out the difference between being able to handle pain and understanding pain to push through it.
Also, and I know this is a bit of a strange thing to say, but I love the fact you're still throwing out the "fucking" every so often. You use it in the perfect emphasis usage that really gets across the nuts-ity of what you're describing.
Oness with the Force - I think there are two versions. The Selfless Light Side and the Selfish Dark Side version. Shown by Luke and Sidious respectively. One is about giving themselves to the Light Side, the other is about absolute control.
Verdict - Can't really argue with the points raised.
I used to watch these all the time and I always loved them. Very good videos
This gonna be fantastic. You just made my day man i love your videos. They are so well made and always worth the wait
the loop effect would actually help mace in the final moments as he would feed off the lighting or whatever Jacen would throw. leaving Jacen exhausted with nothing left. you know it could happen and he has done it before like that.
Sure, if Caedus was relying on his Sith lightning like Palpie. I don’t think Caedus was relying on the dark side as deeply as Sidious though, he was a much more jack of all trades kind of fighter who would have been more than capable of using lots of other smaller scale force powers together that weren’t so … pure Sith.
@@kirtmanwaring3629
I think that’s the biggest advantage Caedus has. Windu will be going in expecting a Dooku or Sidious, someone who specializes entirely in one fighting style and puts everything into it.
Caedus doesn’t do that.
Caedus is not ‘the best’ at anything. But he is ‘one of the best’ at so damn much that the only people who aren’t gonna get destroyed by his sheer talent are the demigods and gods of the force, those being Luke, Krayt, Abeloth and the Ones.
@@goroakechi6126 Which ironically makes him the best at that one thing lol. The other thing people forget is he wasn’t at his ceiling when he died, probably not even close. Dude could give Grand Master Luke the fight of his life way before his prime in Force powers or bladework, imagine a 40 year old Caedus who might even win that fight.
Thanks for the years of amazing content.
I was not expecting this so soon. Time to finish the washing up, make a coffee, sit back and enjoy this versus video 😃
Some of the best content on the Tube. Thanks so much fam.
Almost two hours of Star Wars on fight theories with Mace Windu oh this is gonna be good
Fantastic video man even though i disagree with the final verdict.
How about Exar Kun vs. Revan as a matchup?
And is the Sith master ranking still to come?
Greetings from Germany and thank you for this great video
Here's a crazy idea : Anthony Ingruber as Jacen and Mary Elizabeth Winstead as Jaina
You never fail to disappoint Evan!
Luke wasn’t willing to kill him as he would fall, so more like he could hold his own with a handicapped Luke...
Still, going toe to toe with arguably the second most powerful Force wielder in history is not something to be taken lightly
He was literally bloodlusted he only stops at the end
Hell yeah! Been waiting for this!
Always a pleasure to see another vid from you or the other Fanalysis members in my feed and looking forward to the Anakin Skywalker vs. Jaina that you teased in the vid. I'm very much in agreement with the ultimate verdict here and would like to see you continue with the new format. I look forward to seeing more from you in the future. I hope that you or your fellow council members consider doing one of these matchups in the future:
1. Jerec vs. Dooku or Darth Wyyrlok III
2. Corran Horn vs. Yareal Poof or Yaddle
3. Tahiri Veila vs. Adi Galia
4. Rahm Kota vs. Even Piell
5. Oppo Rancisis vs. Saba Sebatyne
1. Dooku
2. Corran, on the basis that we have so little feats from either Poof or Yaddle, though she might pose a bigger threat.
3 & 4. These are actually interesting ones.
5. Same for this one, though I lean towards Saba.
Can't wait to see more of this Season!
Hopefully it doesn't take long until the next match.
He's back. I've been waiting patiently. This is worth the wait.
I kind of saw this outcome coming. I couldn't see mace beating caedus. Personally, the opponent I would have chosen for darth caedus would have actually been his other contemporary during this time period, the one who considered him a pretender. Darth Krayt.
Oh yes. This is a fight I would love to see.
@Emperor Vowrawn Not Reborn Krayt, surely? That's the one people refer to when they cite him in Verses matches.
@Emperor Vowrawn But Darth Wyyrlock III defeated an ancient Sith in Darth Andeddu, if I recall. So he's obviously really high up there. And yeah, Krayt didn't stomp him, but he defeated him pretty decisively.
@Emperor Vowrawn Caedus was around Kyle's level and did NOT low difficulty defeat him. He was completely matched by him in combat and only won by using his environment. Mind you, that's important as well in a fight, but in terms of actual ability; the fight was anyone's game. Against Luke, he was pretty much going to get killed. No question Caedus is among the strongest Sith in history, prolly only a bit below Sidious or Tenebrae; but he wasn't at their level yet. I think he's actually a relative equal to Reborn Krayt, personally. Around the level of Kyp and Jaina; around the level of a NJO High Jedi Council Member.
But yes, Krayt was talking too much shit about a Sith that would obliterate him if they had met during the Second Galactic Civil War.
@@stephenjenkins7971 Yeah I’m still salty they didn’t give Caedus more time to get closer to his potential in LOTF. Even spreading the story out over 5 years would have let him mature and refine his force skills. Krayt was right to dismiss Caedus but only because TOR wouldn't give him the time to really come into his own.
Shatterpoint is the ultimate form of precognition. What would be really interesting to see would be Mace Windu versus Darth Krayt. Both Masters of that ability, both having taken it to its nth degree, though Krayt more so than Windu.
I'm glad that you finally did Jacen solo Justice most people that ever use him in a matchup always has a bias against him and underestimates his capabilities.
Mace is definetly the best Saber duelist of his age. He knew all seven forms of Saber combat. But caedus an Luke learned not only all 7 forms but created new forms as part of the new order like the 3 point defense. Caedus tought Luke it was possible to become one with the force an temporarily overload the body with it to pull off impossible feats. Caedus has been trained by every force sensitive throughout the galaxy during his time. From the aing ti to the night sisters. Not to mention his craftiness as well as his raw force potential of well over 20,000. Lucas has stated Vader in his prime before his accident is anywhere from 30 to 40,000 an Luke is just as high as his father same as lea. So I'm thinking caedus was around 23000 to 25000 in raw force power. cause lowers through generations. Honestly mace needed to be anakins master. He could of trained him properly an tought him to control the darkside through the light. But that's another discussion. Point is caedus would mark mace because of his raw force power an Saber skills. It be even worse then that force juggernaut you were talking about! He .ight have a chance if your refer to weakened caedus with one hand an bum knee. But in his prime hands down. Caedus wouldn't hesitate.
You’re back
I have been waiting for this for a very long time!!! Thank you Evan!!!
It's good to see you again, old friend.
Hell yeah good to see new Vs content!! I’m going to call Darth Caedus simply cause he could contend with Grandmaster Luke Skywalker and would’ve killed Jaina if not for Luke’s intervention as well as being a scholar of both Light and Dark side of the force making it not a typical Sith that Mace Windu be use to dealing with whom Windu simply could be able to dispatch most Dark Side users with Vaapad as well as Shatterpoint though I don’t know if it’ll be as effective on Caedus and he does have sufficient knowledge though not absolute mastery on all 7 lightsaber forms as most NJO Jedi do. Anyways going to sit back n enjoy!!
Hope to see more I’d like to see
Yoda vs Emperor Vitiate
Kyle Katarn vs Exar Kun
Nomi Sunrider vs Kreia/Darth Traya
Kyp Durron vs Galen Marek
Satele Shan vs Obi Wan Kenobi (during and after Order 66)
Lumiya vs Darth Wyyrlok III
Darth Bane vs Kol Skywalker
It is always a treat to see the versus series Evan. Amazing job as always and prop the longest video I've ever watch.
I actually wanted to read the New Jedi Order series to get some much closer insight plus I want to learn how to write fight scenes for my novel since you've praise the Jacen Solo vs Mara Jade battle.
Can't wait to see the Anakin vs Jaina Solo verses video (though i'm sure Jaina will unfortunately stomp Anakin)
Man I just realized, as good as The Clone Wars is, we don't get to see a lot of Mace's power except in books and the miniseries. Either way, he's incredibly strong, has a cool demeanor but ended up embodying part of the reason the Jedi were heavily flawed.
Dave filoni is a really garbage writer when it comes to fights. Look at grievous for example
@@fridaynightnicktoons6885 AGREED. All of grievous fights, ahsoka vs maul, (maul is incredibly inconsistent in all media except legends books which pisses me off) almost all rebels duels except ahsoka vs vader, maul vs Kenobi and vader vs kanan and ezra(kanan vs grand inquisitor ok. He's a decent writer and understand star wars better than most but he's not the messiah fans claim he is.
@@fridaynightnicktoons6885 To be fair, Grievous was only ever pitted against opponents who were known to be on or near his level (Fisto, Kenobi), and even then, often gave them a good fight or outright kicked their asses. While Ahsoka briefly held out against him (a testament to her skill as Anakin's apprentice, which was the point of showing her fighting him), she was easily overpowered and barely escaped with her life both times. Against the Gungans, Grievous was just toying with them, plain and simple. He didn't take them seriously, he was overconfident and paid the price with his stupidity.
Maul too, is incredibly overconfident which is why Kanan managed to fling him off a ledge and Ahsoka managed to hold her own, despite being exhausted and putting her all into it.
Glad your back man your content always lit
1:32:50 Not necessarily given how rare it is but if there weren't limits to what a user could do with that then time would begin screwing itself within seconds if a Sith like Palpatine learnt it. If Palpatine discovered it later in his life then he'd try to make his reign permanent by doing things like adjusting Anakin's victories and defeats to forge the perfect apprentice, corrupt the Skywalker twins and infiltrate and destroy the Rebel Alliance leaders he had brought to the Death Star in The Force Unleashed before the Alliance was even formed... and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Personally, I see it as only allowing the most minor changes that would have no impact on the timeline as a whole and would instead have sentimental value to the individual performing it.
Finally my boy caedus gets the respect he deserves
Enfin !!! Finally it's here !!! Thank you EvanNova95 !!! Je suis français et j'adore ce que tu fais :)
Toujours heureux d'apporter un peu de lumière dans votre journée. (My apologies if I messed that up. Had to use software for some of those word.)
@@EvanNova95 Don't worry. Your French is impeccable ;)
Oooh, I like the sound of the next matchup.
Ayy new versus series hype!
I experience so much excitement every time you upload a new video 💯🔥
I recently re-watched the clone wars micro series as well as went through the Legends martial arts material, and I think that when Mace went to using physical strikes, he was using the Broken-Gate martial arts form enhanced by "Shatterpoint".
Evan you are the only thing keeping me interested in Star Wars now.
Love these match ups!!!! I'd love to see Ben Skywalker matched up against a few characters. Darth Maul, or Dooku, Ventress, Aura Sing, ROTJ era Luke or even ROTS Obi-Wan and Anakin. The last two might be a push, but he held his own against multiple Sith and even Abeloth, so I reckon he would be an interesting one to look at...
Yes! Thank you for this! We have been waiting, and you have given it to us! You and only the other star wars versus content creators know your deep understanding and knowledge of the lore, not those others who fail to understand, like seththeprogrammer's vader vs kylo ren. No offense meant towards seth, but its clear he only watched the films and used that as a basis. Star wars isn't his forte, and he should just stick with anime.
God, that video was embarassingly bad and shallow. He kept overhyping Crylo on the basis of taking feats from the comics and movies at face value, while using Disney Vader, who's essentially a more broken take on EU Vader, minus the painstaking retooling process or facing enemies of high caliber.
@@yrooxrksvi7142 I also hated it. Seth implied maul was "weak". Even if he's only referring to Disney Canon, Maul was NOT weak and far from that term. He held his own against few of the best in the Jedi Order such as Mace Windu and aayla secura and matched sidious briefly blow for blow with a rage boost following the death of savage. Did he even watch TCW or even read any of the canon novels or comics for that matter, such as son of dathomir? TPM, TCW, even Rebels maul were master level duelists and threats, which he wants to compare kylo to? If he wants to talk about Disney canon, then where was TCW and rebels, where it further continued maul's story and gave him more feats?
But no, lets just mention his loss against kenobi when he was a padawan, when it was made clear that he lost due to arrogance and overconfidence which essentially made him drop his guard. And yet Seth still says "he's a bad duelist". What a joke. Kenobi won due to luck, not skill.
Meanwhile, kylo lost to plot armor Mary Sue in the first movie, stalemated her in the second, and she held her own against him in the third and his only noticeable feats against force wielders were killing low level padawans.
@@lapplandkun9273 See, this is why I can't stand when "big" channels do Star Wars matchups. They can't be bothered to do half of a research, only take movie feats at face value, and they mostly sell their biased winner on hype. Hell, all the feats he listed for Kylo from the Visual Guides amount to nothing but empty lipservice completely contraddicted by the movies. Except for the quote about him drawing from contrasting philosophies, that was the only accurate one.
Absolutely loved this video! It’s been a while since I’ve engaged with _Star Wars_ in general, but I decided to check out my favorite VS channels out of nostalgia and found your best video yet.
I’m late for the Q&A, but I don’t have any questions. You were as thorough as possible, and I agree completely with the analysis. Mace Windu should be the superior swordsman, but it would be more about nuance in technique than due to the speed, strength, deftness, and flexibility of Caedus’ bladework.
Caedus is of course the superior Force wielder. But most importantly, he is one that brings the might of his power to bear in duels between those who rival him, unlike Darth Vader, who tended to rely purely on swordplay if he couldn’t outright dominate his opponent.
_Legacy of the Force_ was in my opinion one of the weakest installments of the _Star Wars_ franchise pre-Disney. But the abysmal Disney Trilogy has appraised the value of LOTF and FOTJ somewhat in my opinion. And the vs video also helped raise my respect for Darth Caedus further, as I’m sure your Jaina Solo video will do for my thoughts on her.
Awesome work!
11:15
Actually the strength of the helmet is the reason he got a concussion. A concussion happens because your head accelerates from the impact. A harder helmet transfers more impact rather than absorb it. Normally helmets actually are made to crack and dent to help absorb the impact of the blow.
Making it from Bascar is good against blasters and lightsabers but makes you more vulnerable to blunt force.
A very long analysis of their capabilities indeed! I'm happy with it anyway so it was definitely worth watching.
This is what I’ve been looking for!!
"It's called Vaapad, Jacen. How many arms do you see!?"
Very well produced video but I disagree with the outcome. While I agree with the fact that Caedus is a stronger force user than Mace I think Vapaad wasn't taken into account as much as it deserved here. While Caedus could definitely compete with Windu as a lightsaber duelist and outstrips him in force abilities I think the Vapaad affect more than makes up for this. Caedus needs to use his full power to defeat Windu, he can't without it and that's where I disagree with the verdict, Mace would win in the same way that he did against Sidious. Just my opinion!
When discussing Caedus peple fail to realise that his great understanding of the force and unparalleled skill in specific fields and techniques don't necessairly make him as strong in raw power. He wasn't ever stated as more powerfull than Vader, he was said to have a superior command of the force. We don't really know Mace's raw power but in my opinion efficiency of Vaapad does relly on it. Otherwise he wouldn't sustain the dark side power of the most powerfull sith ever, Sidious. That power would consume him. And with that I must agree with your opinion, as Mace knows maybe less compared to Caedus, but his power and skill in specific fields like Vaapad and Shatterpoint make him exactly what it takes to kill Darth Caedus.
Well when you are talking about Vaapad it works best when dealing with a pure vessel of the darkside. When fighting sideous mace falls into the most perfect example of Vapaad hes managed to pull off because it's the first time hes faced a pure irredeemable darksider. Caedus is a bit more complex and not exactly pure evil like sideous so I'm not sure if Mace would be able to pull off a similar level of vapaad. Palpatine differes from a lot of sith in that he has no conflict no light side in him. He didnt fall to the darkside hes was just evil and jumped into the sith with both feet and no inner conflict. He was happy for an excuse to murder his parents there was no fall he was already evil. Its actually being pure evil that makes him so vulnerable to the use of Vapaad.
@@ryanwalker8843 Not really, when youre a darksider your a darksider, and vapaad will always have an advantage over that. Also, George Lucas himself admitted that Mace was in a normal state against darth Sidious and not his ultimate vappad form. Overall mace is simply the more experienced and effective combatant and mace would win
@@theovermansailor5519 Nah, mace aint beating caedus. Mace's absolutely best feat is barely outskilling and beating ROTS sidious, while DE luke outskilled and beat a more skilled DE sidious much easier. Base mace was troubled by general griveous and matched by count dooku. Darth Caedus has stomped kyle katarn and 3 of lukes strongest students at once in seconds. His command over the force is stated to surpass darth vaders and he was widely accepted as a rival to prime GM luke. Hell in inferno, caedus dueled with a bloodlusted GM luke, and tough he clearly lost, not only did he survive, but he injured luke bad enough for him to spend a week in a bacta tank and has shown great skill and intellect by holding his own against lukes dueling skill, using the environment to occasionally gain the edge on him and has even tricked luke with force illusions. Caedus massacres windu, he is much smarter, a LOT LOT LOT more powerful, more versatile, physically miles superior and even more skilled than him.
@@SouthpawsRule217 Luke intentionally didn't kill caedus in their duel, caedus was lukes family member and luke already decapitated lumiya so his anger was quenched, also he wasn't in an appropriate condition while fighting caedus, thus he could inflict the wounds on him. If Luke really wanted to kill caedus, then trust me he easily could have.
Sidious was equally as powerful when he fought Mace as when he fought Luke And also remember, Luke had a very tough time beating sidious, that too with lea's help, mace would've done so on his own without problems, also Mace beat grievous & would've killed him had he not escaped & dooku barely managed to match Mace for a short while before running away, so your wrong again
The only advantage caedus has over mace are force powers, but mace has him beat in terms of physicality and lightsaber skills.
Your utterly deluded & dumb if u think caedus stomps mace.
It's a close fight & will depend whether mace closes the distance & turns this into primarily a hand to hand duel or whether caedus gets to use his force powers more, although close & tough, I still think mace wins because he's smart & capable enough to prevent caedus from relying on his force powers & beat him like he did with sidious
I've enjoyed the detailed analysis and begrudgingly agree with your conclusions.
Where has this channel been all my life.
Actually correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure Caedus got his arm cut off with a sword. I remember listening to an audio book and Caedus was screaming when it happened. He then threw blood on his sister or someone else I believe to track em.
Sith style crystals would be freaking amazing with the sharpened emitter the dark saber has. I’d argue they’d have a greater chance to break a standard lightsaber blade.
Also, I think nano droids have the highest likelihood of halting dark side degradation over any other method. If they have the potential to turn a person into a bomb, they certainly have the potential to preserve a force user’s body through great strain using the dark side of the force. Id argue that with the right programming, they’d possibly make a being nearly shatterpoint proof.
I can’t stand the results of the match because of my Mace Windu bias but I’ll take it with pride that he can give Caedus an excellent fight! I won’t argue with the EU character’s OP abilities! You’re my guy evan! ✌🏾
Great video and i like this new format although the old one was very good too.
Welcome back! Love your content. Keep it coming 😃
Now I'm gonna listen to once upon a December
Ah teaching me Star Wars power scaling and Disney tunes what a great channel
Anastasia was made by Don Bluth under Fox......oh wait, you're right lol
Great to see you back! Awesome video!
I never knew how OP Darth Caedus was until I watched this video. If I didn't know better, I would think he was the product of a fanfiction writer high on crack.
Darth Caedus is just a Skywalker. And Caedus is relatively comparable to Council Masters of his time period too.
@@stephenjenkins7971 Could he beat Cade Skywalker?
@@muhdaqeel7330 Idk. Cade is a lot of improvisation mixed with hard training before he left the Order. In many ways, Cade was a hard counter to Darth Krayt, but I doubt he could beat Caedus.
@@stephenjenkins7971 He would put up an awesome fight, though. Caedus uses many of the same tools that Cade is familar with like darts, blasters and vibroblades, so that advantage is negated. Cade has also fought down the best the One Sith had to offer in Nihl and Talon and is a highly skilled fighter in his own right. Personally, I would rank Cade Skywalker as a high-level Jedi Knight/low-level Jedi Master after he defeated Krayt. Where would you rank him?
@@muhdaqeel7330 Nihl wasn't entirely all that impressive; the man relied on surprise attacks and guile to win his battles more than martial skill. He claimed credit in killing Kol Skywalker after Kol was tired in mowing down other Sith Lords by himself. Beating Talon is more impressive, but her defense is pretty spotty, and Cade's completely unpredictable fighting style was suited for taking her down when it wasn't through Force abilities.
But yeah, Cade has a lot of skills with other weaponry, but he doesn't usually employ anything but a blaster, his Force abilities, or his lightsaber when facing Force Users. So it's not like he's decked out like Caedus is typically.
I'd also place him as a Low Jedi Master level by the time he defeated Krayt. The character was extremely powerful for a guy that ran away from his Jedi past like the plague for almost a decade.
The man The myth The legend of Star Wars has returned
Again Evan puts out and amazing vs vid! Awesome job, this one makes my top 5 vs videos!
Ive been looking forward to this!
Dude ur a super good narrator
Welcome back Evan. Nice quality as always.
I've been looking forward to this.
When it comes to physical feats I think it is important to note that not only did Caedus hold his own against Luke but Luke had a sneak attack advantage with caedus actually believing Luke to be dead. Luke started the fight going for Caedus' kidney and scoring a hit which would cause a huge amount of pain through the rest of the fight.
Quite an advantage for Luke that didn't result in a win.
And while caedus was choking Luke out it was Ben Skywalker who stabbed caedus to free Luke from the choke.
As for windu vs palpatine windu had 3 allies in the fight which took a lot of palpatine's attention early in the fight and arguably palpatine let windu get him down to manipulate anakin.
Windu didn't beat palpatine in a fair fight is what I'm saying. One on one from the start without palpatine trying to manipulate anakin during the fight and windu would be toast.
@@wesbradley-taubner7838 so in the first few seconds of the fight when palpatine has some level of surprise with his force scream and opening attacks he had to use up three kill strikes and some defensive moves against the other 3 jedi before moving on to mace.
During that time mace was able to see a bit of palpatine's style and recover from the force scream.
Now I think that if palpatine had focused his opening attacks on only one person instead of four mace would have been overwhelmed in the opening seconds before getting his Vaapad going.
You also have to realize that palpatine sensed that anakin was coming and needed anakin to find them in a situation where he could manipulate anakin into betraying the jedi. So anakin walking in on palpatine standing over four corpses showing how immensely powerful he is wouldn't have had the same effect as palpatine seeming like he is defeated and weak and mace talking about murdering him because he is too powerful.
Mace being the most aggressive jedi in the group might have even been why palpatine chose him to survive the fight.
So in my opinion, if we are being this off what we saw in the movies and not some obscure book or comic or something, we can't really say mace won in a fair fight. At best he survived because palpatine focused his initial attack on the other jedi and at worst palpatine was playing with him the whole time to manipulate anakin.
We should see these videos coming beforehand, like those upcoming Netflix movie trailer compilations, upcoming EvanNova movies.