9mm +P and +P+
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ย. 2024
- Paul tests +P and +P+ ammo in 9mm.
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Paul Harrell, always humble, never condescending, always thorough and so easy to appreciate. Hang tough Paul,
Semper Fidelis 🇺🇸
I will miss these videos more than any others on TH-cam for sure man. Though I may not always agree, he almost always has a better reason than me to why he did what he did. Paul very much encourages critical thinking in most videos while putting out great facts and techniques. Paul is absolutely a gem to the entire 2A community
@@dylankorpi137 critical thinking and deductive reasoning, agree!
YUT
RIP Paul. Ive appreciated all of his hard work and educational videos.
Just a couple of comments on how defense ammunition is made and the differences between +P and +P+ loadings. In 2000, I flew to South Dakota to talk with CorBon about a job. At the time they were the only ammo maker selling +P+ 9mm to the general public. Remington, Federal, Speer, and Winchester made it, but would only sell it to law enforcement dealers. Some of this leaked out into civilian sales, usually at gun shows.
I spent the day at CorBon with my friend, the late Terry Murbach, who explained to me how high performance ammunition was made. At the time, we did not have the improved projectiles we have today, so the only way we could get better performance from a hollow point was to push it faster. CorBon even had a sign over the door to the room where they made +P+ ammo that just said "Speed Kills". Terry explained to me that each ammo maker used a custom blend of powders to achieve their performance goals. It is not like reloading at home where we typically use one powder and vary the amount to push the bullet faster. These custom blends are closely guarded secrets from compan to company.
30-40 years ago, before powder science was fully developed, if you wanted better effectiveness, you pushed a standard hollow point as fast as you could, until you saw fragmentation in test media OR your pressures went too high. Some law enforcement agencies didn't mind some fragmentation, especially if they did not do traffic stops, such as the Secret Service. Two of the +P+ loads, the Federal and the Speer 115 grain rounds are from that era. The Gold Dot +P+ is 30 years old, and doesn't fragment much because it uses a bonded bullet. The Federal +P+ is 40 years old. These loads are still available because they still sell well. The other +P+ load is from a smaller boutique maker, much like CorBon was at one time.
Terry shared with me that in the industy, +P generally means that the load in question does not exceed SAAMI standard pressure by more than 10%, but +P+ is anything more than 10% with no agreed upon upper limit. Depending on the maker's powder mix, you may or may not get better performance from a +P+ load than you do from +P. In the intervening years, we have learned to make better projectiles that expand at lower velocities, reducing the need to push the bullet so fast. Modern makers consider not only pressure, but they strive to meet performance targets (usually FBI standards) with the lowest pressures and velocities they can achieve, to reduce recoil and firearms wear. Most of the "major's" modern loads will result in lower velocities and pressures by design.
Some smaller manufacturers, like Underwood, cater to users who feel they want the extra velocities for game hunting or other reasons, and don't care as much about recoil or gun wear. It's part of their marketing of the product. Most major makers really try to avoid having to mark their ammo as +P+ these days because they know it voids most gun maker's warranties. This is why if you encounter Speer or Federal +P+ ammo, it usually has a prominent sticker on it saying it is for LE use only. We can now get very similar performance from a modern +P load as we get from an older +P+ load.
Sorry for the long comment which I know not everyone is interested in. I bring it up just to say there are reasons that +P+ doesn't necessarily get you anything more than +P these days if you are buying from a major maker. And if their target market is law enforcement, the reduced pressure and velocity is usually an intended feature, not a bug. They want both velocity and pressure to be as low as can be arranged and still perform well on the FBI test protocols.
Thank you for sharing that bit of wisdom friend. I found it very interesting and useful. I’ll be sure to pass that bit of knowledge along.
Thank you for sharing this comment very interesting information 👍👍
Yes I was involved in this back in the later 90s to sort to speak for a miltary stand point during the testing between the 92 and the sig.will say this the Beretta handles any hot loads very very well.
Completely agree on the Beretta. My M9A1 is my home defense handgun. I do change the ammo from time to time, but generally it's loaded with Winchester 9mm 127grain +P+. Stuff is incredibly accurate and I've never had a malfunction.
@@Aarons-Animals Yes what I love about the 92sf is the open bolt and the event of a stove pipe ..no problem and need not to drop the Mag. I can literally hit dead center shooting a BEER CAP.I kid you not!! It eats everything I feed it, like my Border Collie..lol but hates peas 🫛 Also Arron I will be setting up my new Ruger pc9 and going thru a lot of data on various loads 9+ p + P .
I hunt Big game, I intend to use the Ruger for Hog and coyotes and in event of Two Legged Varmints. I live here in Texas, Crime is generally in the Blue cities, you know what I call the Ghetto or Bario I don't go there but like all areas in the States they are going to wealthy areas! Sorry to be long winded. In my day 357 ruled the roost I love it dearly but the cost is mind boggling. Later my friend. Where are you from??
You'll never find a more detailed and precise set of tests and analyses than those offered by Mr. Harrell.
Brilliant! "I don't always shoot +P+ ammunition, but when I do, I do it in someone else's handgun."
good one!
Beat me to it.
LOL!
Love it! Use someone's else pistol for +p+..lol
Normally, I would go to a range that rents handguns and I would use those to test +P+ ammunition.
This video just shows the amount of care and work which Mr. H. puts into his videos for us. We thank you, Mr. Harrell !
Except audio level mastering. The intro is absurdly loud, and the mic noise is near intolerable.
@sigmasquadleader - you really know how to make a cake out of a crumb, fella.
ahhh my Friday afternoon is complete. Paul, I bought a Beretta 92FS because of you and it is a fantastic firearm.
Come on now, you know Riggs from Lethal Weapon had a little something to do with your decision.
I have wanted one for years, but I just never broke down and got it. Safe full of Glocks and not one Beretta. Sad...
@@SuperUncleRyan believe it or not, I didn't watch lethal weapon till this year... Paul Harrell had more of an effect on me.
Should have got a CZ SP01. I much prefer it over the 92FS. Ergonomics are 100% better.
@@hasanmichael4966 there's always something someone else likes better. if it works for you, good for you. I never said it was the most ergonomic, or best, i just said it's a fantastic firearm. I got a great deal on mine.
Beretta 92FS is my favorite semi auto as well, only one that never failed on me. Extremely accurate as well, only wish Beretta would come up with real compact 92, something that would be easier to conceal.
It's not that this was one of my favorite of your videos, it's that you are the best gun channel on all of TH-cam. I have seen and gone through countless gun channels on TH-cam and yours stands out as the best at this time. It is free from the intentional controversies that others aim for, void of racism and blind politics and it has the IQ that gets down to the fine details for refined discourse on firearms, ammunition, and expert weaponry. Thank you for doing what you do.
Well said!
New Paul Harrell video? Gonna be a good day 👍🇺🇸
Always makes my day better!
The problem with +p+ ammunition is the variance. +P+ is not actually a standard, it just means it is over 10% above standard chamber pressure. One manufactureright use 12%, and another might go 25%. So you never really know what you are getting when you try a new load.
Now I finally understand! So +P or +P+ is like +Paul Harrell or +Paul Harrell+
Another great video. I worked for the Federal Bureau of Prisons for 11 years as a member of the US Public Health Service. I had access to every area of the prison when needed. Once I responded to a medical emergency in a secure area of the facility. The room was large and was stocked with wire racks filled side to side and from floor to ceiling with case after case of Federal 9mm BPLE 115 grain +P+. That was the carry ammo of the perimeter officer and anyone that transported detainees to the hospital. That was also the same ammo we qualified with each year at annual training. I always failed my first try at qualification and had to shoot a second time. Pistols were the Barretta DAO stainless 9mm auto. I always thought the ammo was loaded pretty stiff and it became the ammo I would always buy for myself. Thanks for another superb analysis.
😂😂😂
Weird flex but okay…
Sometimes "+P" means "Pulls Pressure" and sometimes it only means "Plus Price!"
Lol good one
Paul's pressure
Never costs more.
Many years ago I was issued Federal 9 BPLE 115 gr, +P+. Out of my 5" gun, it is an honest 1350-1370 fps. It is a 30 year old round but still does just fine by me. Plus, my pistol shoots to point of aim with it. Great demo Mr. Harrell. Not all rounds live up to the hype!
Glock 17?
@@DerWaidmann_ Yup!
10:24 Princess Bride!!! Paul you are the greatest. I could watch your videos all day if I hadn't seen them all already. Your info is always practical and useful. Thank you for all the work you and your "crew" put in to make things happen. This is my favorite TH-cam channel bar none! Keep up the great work!!
My sense is still that the white box and green-and-white box ammunition is good enough for most people's needs. I tend to use the Federal white box ammunition, but I'd expect that ammunition to be similar to the others. As I look at all of these presentations, my sense is that a good center-mass shot to the chest with hollowpoint ammunition in any standard defensive caliber is likely to do the job.
@@JohnDavis-im1oy Your inability to answer a question respectfully marks you as someone who is too damn stupid to have a conversation with the adults. Go to Hell.
The simple, direct answer is that WWB 115 is very representive of what can be expected of a std vel 115 .
. The larger question of which defensive ammo is most best-est , and has multiple variables , and there isn't an automatic no brainer answer .
If the only factor was absolute maximum ( whoop a$$ capabilities ) , the only gun anybody would use would be a 4 inch or longer .357 Magnum revolver, and the only load anyone would use would be full power 125 jhp . ( Slightly sarcastic , but making the point that most people will make some degree of compromise in one factor in exchange for other features they also important .)
Agreed
You're right, if all you are looking at is velocity and bullet performance. What you are paying more for with premium ammunition is fore and aft cartridge sealing, flash retardant powders, and extra quality control steps that are important to law enforcement agencies who carry their guns, often exposed in all weathers, have little control over solvents getting on ammunition when some officer cleans his gun, and whose personnel routinely engage in gun fights in reduced light where excess flash or a cartridge failure can cost a life.
These conditions are very different from those encountered during a day at the range, or by a home defense gun that lives loaded in a sock drawer. These extra additions to premium or hyper ammunition as Paul calls them may or may not be of value to you.
Paul taught me that for practice ammunition, I should use Remington green & white box 115 grain JHPs, and for my EDC loads, my guns will be full of Remington green & white box 115 gr JHPs. It’s a great load that performs more than adequately with great consistency. I’d also bet a bad guy can’t tell me the difference between getting shot at 1150 and 1300 FPS, nor between .015 and .020 difference in expanded bullet diameter. 👍🏻
Mr.Harrell all your videos are”Much” appreciated and sir you are the man💯
A thinking man's evaluation of 9mm ammo. Thanks!
Yet the question EVERYONE wants to know . . .
Are they as good as the Hertenburger Buscadero Ticondas®?
No one will ever know as you don't want to shoot your Taicodas!
Ticondas are the bees knees. Nothing beats the ticooondas
Now THAT needs to be on a T-shirt
Ticondas only work against the bogeyman.
I don't want to waste my TICONDAS!
"I do not think it means what you think it means..." Excellent! Great video as always
I think Paul should be given Oscar. Maybe not a real size Oscar... but an award of some sort. First - he can make shooting chronograph look like an interesting process... even for long time. A second - he uses rich language. Never heard word "exorbitant" before... I have an excuse - I am Russian. But WTF??? I watched thousands of youtube videos filmed by Americans and Englishmen and none of them cared of this word!!! Yes we in Russia can not carry pistols. But I can learn a new word from Paul anyway!!!
take a trip to the USA - lots of us will take you for a trip to the local range!
@timmybmn That's honest.
@@chasa4347 Do you want another russian immigrant? As for gun laws USA is too good to go home once you've got in...
@timmybmn does Paul even use Glocks?
@@LexsLavrov As they used to say on the Price is Right... Come on down. :). Just choose one of the "free" states if you want to enjoy shooting arts. :)
One of the things I find so interesting is that Paul Harrell is such a good shot that even with different types of ammo over greater distances the groups are all still really nice! And the best part was in one of his videos he said he had to remember not to shoot through the same hole that he'd already put in the targets! That is superior shooting.
Does the shooting in the background really bother anyone? You be the judge.
Lol good one.
Felipe Sakama Dutra Don’t bother me....I’m good.
WHAT? I could not hear you over my gun fire! 🙉
Not nearly so much as the wind noise in some of his videos
It doesn't even seem to bother the deer who wander into the background.
#dumbestdeerever
Fun fact- that white box federal +p+ is the legendary 9bple that was considered some of the best 9mm up to the 1990s. Back then ammo technology was nowhere near what we have today. One of the biggest issues for people was lack of expansion from hollow points being plugged clothing and high velocity was a sort of a work around. Then we started to get golden sabers, black talons, gold dots, etc. The gold dots were somewhat of a game changer and are still excellent after all of these years. Today bullet and powder technology have come so far that it's really a disadvantage to use +p+ ammo. Today's bullets achieve consitent expansion and resistance to plugging at much lower velocities. But even today I would not feel at all underarmed with 9bple although I no longer carry it for reasons mentioned above.
Excellent comment. I just essentially wrote the same thing before I saw your entry. That Federal 9BP-LE load is now over 40 years old. I'd still happily use it if it was what I could get. But today I can get the same or better performance from an HST round with lower pressure and no fragmentation. You're also right that 30 years ago, Gold Dot's bonded bullets were a real game changer. Cheers.
Who else always hits the like button before they even start watching any of Paul's videos? Hands down, one of the best channels on TH-cam. Good show bud, good show.
Champion of men.
Your video quality is excellent, Paul. Thanks for providing such great content.
musicmikeal He never takes his eyes of the camera. That carries over to defense, right?
great info as always
indeed
How are you in every comments section on TH-cam?? He is eternal. He is everywhere. *He sees all.*
Lol you get around pretty well my dude
This is the only channel where I "like" the video first, then I watch it... Keep on, Paul. :-)
For firearms and ammo education, Paul Harrell and Gunblue 490 are the only two channels you need.
“I don’t think it means what you think it means” - classic Paul Harrell.
Best instructional gun channel on TH-cam! Paul is the man!
Great timing Paul! I have 200 rounds of Speer GD 115gr +P+ in the mail right now! Saved me $30 so I don’t have to build my own meat target. Textbook perfect performance for the gold dot that matches its street credentials.
I buy just the gold dot bullets then load them myself, save a ton, costs me around $25 per hundred rounds loaded used to be half that but cost of bullets and powder have gone up a bunch.
Ghost Shadow I’ve priced it out and If I value my time at $22 an hour I break even. I got these for around $0.60 shipped. I don’t have much free time and I’d rather spend it reloading rarer more expensive ammo.
Yup, I reload for fun or accuracy not to save money. Of course some people are on a budget and this is a concern, plus you can load for specific firearms and thus “improve” both accuracy and down range effectiveness.
@@HughesEnterprises I was paid $3.15 an hour at my first job and I start loading before then, I reload on my free time, when I'm bored, when I don't have anything else to do.
I use a rock chucker supreme single stage reloading press, not in any hurry when I reload.
Hughes : 100% agree. Accurate, consistent and effective, as Paul's demonstration shows! Affordable, too. GDplus's are widely underrated, and are the choice of many PDs nation-wide(and mine too) ! Hard to demonize (in court) the same ammo as LE departments use.
I'm viewing again because I just picked up the G45 and am retiring from daily carry the 1911. And I have seen all his videos in the last 5 to 7 years. RIP. I knew he used baseline testing and wanted the refresher. "Why I don't like hyper ammo" might be his most informative without a bunch of testing.
This one took a lot of work, Paul. All those meat targets! Thank you for the time and effort!!
For an accurate test, we need the same gun. No problem. (Pulls out a 92FS from jacket.)
For an accurate test, we need ammo from the same maker. No problem. (Pulls out ammos from 1 maker)
For an accurate test, we need a bench rest. No problem. (Pulls out an Audi 5000 from jacket)
God I love this channel.
Paul is the only man I know that can conceal carry a Gatling gun.
I'm starting to consider buying only "Winchester white box" ammo. Paul's test seem to show it is a basis of comparison for all others and a better value than the slight increase in performance of other types of ammo - across the calibers I own. Maybe keep a couple boxes of "hyper ammo" on hand for special purpose, as a woods gun in 10mm.
Ed Parent I shoot WWB all the time. It’s some of my favorite ammo.
That's usually what I stock up on for .40. It's very good ammo for the money
I can’t find any
Its good but if you have a snubby .38, I'd find another brand with +P
i personally only carry gold dot and hst due to the fact i know they do what they say. because they’ve been used thousands of time by cops.
Thanks Paul, I enjoy all your videos learning about firearms and calibers that I never considered buying but today's video gives me info on a round I frequently use. Yeah!
Superb information. It is unfortunate you don't get this kind of display from manufacturers, but fortunate we don't need it from the manufacturers.
only Paul Harrell can make shooting through chronograph very interesting :)
The anticipation is palpable when he reads the numbers.
There are some U-Tube gunslingers who no longer show chrono readings cause they shot their chronos-lol
@@billpohlman803
Oftened wondered how often that has happened
I agree. Lol.
@@billpohlman803 At Paul Harrel distance, I would be buying chrony arms by the dozen.
I'm not sure how I missed this vid, but when I went to best explain/teach my wife how +p and +p+ work, I found you! Thanks, man!
This reminds me of when I used to fish a lot as a kid. I remember reading somewhere that many fishing lures are constructed to catch fishermen, not fish. The fact that it's the same with "fancy" ammo does not really surprise me. That's how sales and marketing departments work.
This is one of the 1st videos of yours that I had watched and I'm now a big fan. I like the fact that you get right to the point with no bullshit and have great content.
What this showed me is that WWB HP rounds are perfectly adequate as carry rounds.
Yup
I can actually afford to practice with it too. Shooing 100 rounds every couple weeks won't be exceptionally expensive.
I don't think Paul is ever gonna get an ammo sponsor. Especially a 'boutique' brand. ;) :)
They are, it's all I carry.
I haven't been able to find them in several years.
Excellent as always thank you Paul!
Great video and presentation! Thank you for taking the time and energy to present another video with statistics we shooters can use. Regards, Sgt Twigg
Thanks for these videos. Even though this video is over 4 years old from the time I'm watching it, I had watch this a few days ago and it compelled me to go back to my Sporting Goods store and buy a variety of 9 mm Target and practice ammunitions and find exactly which one came closest to hitting where my federal HST +P 9 mm 124gr. ammo was hitting since that's what I zeroed my Hellcat OSP and holosun 407k with because I was finding other Target ammunitions we're not hitting in the same spot and I thought my zero had drifted but I found it did not, it was the target ammo I was using. I ended up discovering that Winchester 9mm NATO 124 rain came pretty close which was no surprise, and now I know to stick with that.
you could see the added recoil while firing; great video, very informative as always!
How is it that every question I have about firearms, there is a video that answers it- THAT YOU MADE! 🤟
10:02
My new ringtone.
A Princess Bride reference? You sir, win the internet for the day.
Paul stop wasting all those Ticondas!
not the Ticooooondas!
Thank you for all the video's you post. I watch them daily obviously it's nice to know from a professional standpoint the knowledge that you share your experiences with firearms and training wish there was a way to meet you in person and exchange stories or go to the range :)
Winchester white box did better than I thought it would. Great video!
WWB has an undeserved reputation. I've been using it for years and it always performs well.
White box is both inexpensive and high quality. My hollow points worked on my sub2000 against some farm critters quite well. Not sure of pistol though but many videos show that in 4” barrels they work quite well.
@762x35mm I have not tested the 115 grain as i cant find it, but the 147 grain expands well in tests. The Remington 115 jhp expands well and feeds well in every pistol I have tried it in. Not had any issues with it at all, and its priced lowed enough that you can practice with it and carry it and not have to take out a loan to buy ammo
I know this is late, but thanks for this video! I try to explain this to people and you did a great job.
The main thing is you must test the ammo for your individual firearm. No matter how good you think the ammo is, it just may not work in your gun.
Thanks for another great video (as usual) Paul. 😎
NOTE: My Beretta 92FS manual recommends standard pressure ammunition only.
I’m sure Beretta’s lawyers insisted on that.
My personal opinion is that you’d need to shoot a lot of plus P ammo out of a new Beretta 92 series pistol to damage it. But I’m not an engineer or a gunsmith.
The police use plus P 9mm ammo in their Beretta’s. So I’d call that their endorsement .
As for plus P plus, I wouldn’t. I’d get a 357 Magnum revolver instead.
@Robert Dawson - You might be right about the lawyers’ CYA statement, but I’m not sure of anything I haven’t verified for myself. I don’t know what the expected service life of a police handgun is, but I suspect they retire them before the +P ammo would damage them.
I can understand how those who prefer JHP rounds might want the extra velocity of +P ammo to ensure maximum expansion.
For my part, I don’t see any need to use +P 9mm in my Beretta, as the round I use (Underwood Xtreme Defender, std. pressure) provides all the terminal effect I need without over-penetration.
Vito Tuxedo ... I don’t know if there are collected stats on actual shots fired into a thorax to conclude that Plus P handgun ammo stops perps better than standard pressure 9mm.
Robert Dawson - I don’t know either, but I’ve never seen any. The whole “stopping power” thing is ill-defined anyway. Gel tests provide some indication of penetration and wound channel geometry. But Paul’s meat target tests probably are closest to real-world conditions.
Paul, your videos are very informative and well thought out. Thank you for what you do.
Yes! Day complete. Thank you PH
It makes me shiver to see that snow, we gather a sprinkling of snow every other year down here. And having said that, I must say that I, along with the rest of your viewers, appreciate the efforts you put into presentations. Thanks for sharing your insights!
And put on gloves and a hat! LOL!
Wow - a Paul Harrell video and he is not getting rained on.....yea!
Because it's been snowing here a lot.
@sman7290 - Yeah nothing seems to phase him.
hes either wading through snow getting snowed on or getting rained on.
Yes! Relaxing in the morning with a cup of coffee, binge watching Paul's videos. I love the changing seasons, looking at the snow, the sun's glow, the rain, beautiful ridge lines, and the echoes of gun fire. It reminds me of my youth and long days shooting in the woods and fields. Reading the same "serious" disagreements in the comments about calibers etc.
I'll stick with the firearms the i shoot the best, that is to say accurately with fast follow-up.
After decades of shooting, I find that the only caliber I can see an appreciable +P difference is in .38 Special, and then only in the 158gr LSWHP. Important to note that the Browning Hi=Power, arguably the best 9mm ever made, cannot handle +P ammunition. Great video, Paul!
good point.
Federal HST is about 10% more lbs/ft in the +P vs standard pressure variants. Followup shots are about 20% slower. Not exactly 'worth' the extra recoil for the extra energy.
@@thorman944 You're right about the HST. In a compact gun with less than a four inch barrel, you are only getting 30-50 fps more than the standard pressure load. My LE contact at Federal tells me that the +P load is intended for duty sized pistols with barrels of four inches or more, where you should get 100-125 fps more velocity. In practice, in my short guns, I will use the 124 grain loads interchangeably depending on what I can find, but realizing that I'm wasting the potential of the +P in the compacts and subcompacts, and putting up with higher pressures than I need to. The standard pressure 124 grain HST is a fine performer in all my pistols regardless of barrel length, but I can't always get it.
I like the line “I don’t know what they mean by +p but it doesn’t mean what you think it means.”Great line Paul. I’ve been thinking about buying/shooting some of the Underwood ammo. I’d love to see some ballistics teat with it for over penetration
The white box ammo looked fine to me.
I agree, the fancy stuff is neat to play with every once in a while but you should be able to do what needs to be done with the good ole WWB.
@@TheOldFatDadGoober agreed
@@TheOldFatDadGoober I carry WWB 230 JHP in my 1911. Been doing so for years.
Dat's racist! ;P
WWB will be fine unless you need to shoot through a hard barrier.
As always: substantive & comprehensive!
Great video as away Paul, you make my day. As to ammunition type I use a CZ-75 (all steel) I've found over the years there is nothing it will not fire with ease. And it has enough heft to absorb heavy recoil without fail, or any damage.
This is the best gun channel on TH-cam. Paul, you're experience and perspective is very valuable.
Hey Paul. Great videos. I think a video comparing 9mm 115 vs 124 vs 147 would be a useful video. Even throwing those weights in a regular vs hyper comparison would be cool. Maybe turn in into a series where you compare all the common weights for each major caliber could be fodder for several videos.
That is a lot of information. You take all the guesswork out with your videos and meat target demonstrations. Thanks a lot for all the info.
This is a real eye-opener because one would naturally "assume" you would see an incremental increase from standard load 9mm to +P to +P+ but there were some incidents where we actually see a decrease in velocity where you would normally expect to see an increase. It's pretty clear some manufacturers don't observe the same loading standard.
To the contrary , they all observe the same standards .... Of Pressures . Which have an imperfect relationship to velocity .
@@filianablanxart8305 There is a clear, measurable difference in velocities between these products. You would normally see a lower value for non +P ammunition of the same type but instead we see the same, or similar, values. That doesn't happen by magic and its clear **something** is affecting it. I'm saying most people would assume a higher velocity will result with +P ammunition vs non +P. Knowing this, I would elect NOT to buy the more expensive +P ammo of the type used here.
Man i always fall asleep watching your videos.
It is a compliment.
Here i am 3 in the morning trying to cram this video in with the droopy eyes. See you later this afternoon.
The auto-captions are spot on. Is Paul's pronunciation practically perfect? You be the judge.
The only word I've ever heard him stumble over is "exorbitant " at 19:59. It sounds like he pronounced it without the t. That's only one letter in millions of words. Practically perfect.
At times Paul Harrell has comedic moments. His jokes are dry in delivery by design and if you’re not careful, will fly over your head. That’s what makes them super funny.
Thats A Lot More.
Congratulations.....I really like Pauls's reviews because they are serious, informative and very practical. I have seen reviews of comparisons of different 9mm ammo but Paul's review is the best. Hats off.
Thanks for explaining all this Paul!
Great video Paul. Also I really appreciate your discipline in safety , both obvious and subtle.
+p+ is just the short way of saying "im gonna elmer keith this shit up"
No, Keith used the term "Magnum", which is a LOT MORE
Nice Saturday morning treat. A new Paul H video. Always informative and down right entertaining. Dare i save family friendly activities.
Thank you for the video, Paul! Something for your viewers to keep in mind (and to underscore your point in the video) is that +P doesn’t mean the projectile will necessarily travel faster than standard pressure. It means that chamber pressures exceed SAAMI spec for standard pressure. We’d hope that this would translate to more velocity, especially in the same manufacturer’s loadings, but especially across manufacturers it may not result in more velocity even for the same bullet type. Years ago I did a bunch of hand loading with different powders and found widely varying results at +P pressures. You’d hope a manufacturer would pick the most effective powders for their +P offerings, but clearly not all do! I’d suspect Underwood and Buffalo Bore to be best at this. Anyway, thanks again for the instructive video. Have a great weekend.
As former weekend warrior, we were issued the m9 pistol aka the beretta 92 . The standard ball ammo we used certainly felt and sounded like +p+ loads . Anybody else out there notice that ?
Between 9mm NATO being hotter than most commercial ammo, and springs in the M9 that were probably around for Desert Storm, yeah. I can see it.
Loved it, thanks for the demonstration.
I normally do not like snow but seeing this is so refreshing it’s around 90 degrees here and the humidity is 100 working in the garden I almost passed out so looking at this is wonderful. I recently retired my 45acp for a 9mm and I am super picky about my ammo I am currently loaded with 124 grain HST second on list is Golden Sabre plus P Bonded thanks for showing this video very informative .
Great video. Thanks Paul!
This guy has the best damn chronograph I’ve over seen. Every video 0 errors. Gets a reading every time.
I WOKE UP FROM A NAP. ...ON FRIDAY.....JUST TO WATCH THIS!!
Paul, I love your vids. Very scientific.. One of the reasons I bought my Beretta was because it will eat +p and +p+ ammo all day long... Outstanding vid my friend,,,
Excellent comparisons. I am surprised at the small difference between the +P and +P+. If the latter costs significantly more, then +P would be the way to go.
Awesome presentation, Paul. Thank you!
I wish ammo manufacturers would use actual numbers on there advertising. A five inch “test barrel” just isn’t very accurate when compared to the actual 3.5 to 4.0 inch barrels most people use. Underwood is one of the most accurate. If they say 1300, it is.
Most .380s are like 2.something inch barrels but the box advertised velocity is always a 4"
on where
*their
Hey, I’m old. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. Thanks.
5in for .45acp sure. For 9mm, .40sw, .357sig, .357 mag they should be using 4in.
I often had my doubts about the difference between standard vs. +P and +P+. This has taught me that my chronograph is worth the investment.
Terminal ballistics is what matters most to me, after reliabity of course and I've noted that many of the +p+ loadings have adverse affects such as fragmentation and excessive expansion that reduces required minimum IWBA/FBI heavy clothing penetration. The federal 9BPLE 115+p+ and Speer Gold dot 115 +p+ don't penetrate well. The 115 gold dots in general is their worst offering , but the 124 gr gold dots in +P are excellent as well as Underwood loadings. The 147 gr gold dots do well at +P or +P+ such as boutique loaded Underwood offerings but the recoil is substantially increased in those loadings. The Underwood 124+p+ is pretty good but does lose penetration due to excessive expansion again. The Winchester Ranger 127+P+ does very well too in duty sized guns but doesn't expand in most guns under approximately 4 inch barrels consistently. Personally I like 124+P gold dots in 4+ inch barrels and standard pressure 124 HST in short barrels from all the data I've seen.
Someone didn’t watch the whole video. Jelly doesn’t compare to real flesh and bone.
@@HughesEnterprises it's not supposed to replicate flesh, it's supposed to be a controlled media for comparing projectile performance. Bullets that pass through the heavy clothing IWBA protocol look very similar to bullet recovered from actual shootings. Doctor Gary Roberts discusses this in the P&D mod cast on terminal ballistics, he is the foremost expert on the subject in the world. If you want to know the ratio of penetration into 10% ordinance gel vs humans is roughly 2:1 once you factor in that the human skin is tough to penetrate and in itself can require 2-4 inches of gel penetration to break. So 16 inches into 10% ordinance gel would be roughly 6-8 inches into man which is ideal penetration.
901 - Sure that’s what It’s supposed to do but obviously that 2:1 ratio doesn’t always work out in the real world. The speer 115 +P+ penetrated like ~10” in the Tnoutdoors9 test and penetrated through ~10-12” of meat target in this video and 10 layers of fleece.
Based on the 12-18” rule the bullet failed the standardized test. Based on real flesh and bone it performs just fine.
@@HughesEnterprises Reason that 12" to 18" standard is a thing is because that's for the worst case scenario of striking an arm before entering the torso, or something along those lines, so it doesn't do something like stop just short of the heart, like what happened in that FBI shootout in '86 (one particular wound was pretty much non-survivable for the perp, but the bullet did stop an inch from the heart, after it had to penetrate his arm; if it didn't have to go through an arm, it would've likely reached the heart, and .40 may not have existed, but that's just me rambling).
I was excited thinking hed test the Underwood on the meat target 🙁
My favorite firearms channel on TH-cam. Keep up the good work Paul.
My Family Time involves Paul’s Classes! ❤️🇺🇸🥇👍
“You have to get your carry ammunition on paper, too.”
Just a little tip right there that has big consequences. Paul really was, what you’d call a professional. He will be greatly missed.
I watch his vids to to see what he pulls out of his pockets. I'm waiting for a live rabbit! Perhaps an Easter video. Hint Hint Paul!
His pockets have better goodies than Santa's sack !
Where all the pistols we're being shot through the chrony, was painful to sit through. So much so, that I skipped the first 9minutes of this one. Tough love Paul. Great channel.
Double Tap +P $22.71 + Ground Shipping for 20 rounds xD At those prices , you're better off shooting the bad guy meat target TWICE with standard 9mm ....
Good thing about federal hi shok LE +p+ is 50 rounds for $18 and shipping
Great info, Paul.