Why is the US Army’s New Lightweight M17 so Important to the Military Police?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
- The SIG Sauer M17 service pistol was derived from the SIG Sauer P320 in use with the United States Armed Forces Military Police.
This modular pistol accommodates, multiple accessory’s, optics, and hand sizes.
Special thanks to the Maryland Army National Guard  and the 29th Military Police Company for helping me with this video.
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The SIG Sauer M17 service pistol was derived from the SIG Sauer P320 in use with the United States Armed Forces Military Police.
This modular pistol accommodates, multiple accessory’s, optics, and hand sizes.
Special thanks to the Maryland Army National Guard and the 29th Military Police Company for helping me with this video.
For uncensored video, check out my substack at:
ryanmcbeth.substack.com
Like my shirts? Get your own at:
www.bunkerbranding.com/pages/ryan-mcbeth
Want a personalized greeting:
www.cameo.com/ryanmcbeth
Watch all of my long form videos:
th-cam.com/play/PLt670_P7pOGmLWZG78JlM-rG2ZrpPziOy.html
Twitter:
@ryanmcbeth
Join the conversation:
discord.gg/pKuGDHZHrz
Want to send me something?
Ryan McBeth Productions LLC
8705 Colesville Rd.
Suite 249
Silver Spring, MD 20910
USA
Do me a favor and tactically acquire one of those SIGs for me Ryan
Your content is outstanding, but, please.... accessories... not accessory's.
Thank you for this. IMO this is the way firearms should be handled and talked about. The are simply tools for a job. Not a lifestyle. It is more important to me HOW a person handles a weapon vs. the weapon they hold. Respect life is what I say. Much respect to the Sargent.
Pretty freakin' impressive! Did you get a chance to fire one, Ryan?
So basically a Glock 19
Nothing cooler than people who know what they’re talking about explaining what they have. Thank you for interviewing this soldier, Ryan!
Underrated comment
Agreed! Although that pistol is pretty effin cool too 😉
I know right. I’m vehemently against civilian-owned firearms (outside of a few scenarios) yet my bookshelf overflows with combat & weaponry resources.
Nothing makes me smile more than a qualified-yet-normal person explaining their niche.
And thank you Sgt Cadwalaber for your service & expertise!
Agreed
"It can mount a optic with the removal of the plate"
-Also US Army: yeah no ones getting one.
Facts 🤣
Well, some cheese-eating REMF is going to have all the accessories. If they ever issue optics, they'll have them.
soldiers can probably an optic for themselves, the do it all the time for non critical accessories for rifles like stocks and grips, i dont see whey pistols would be different, unit SOP depending of course.
@@SidneyBroadshead I was about to say. The supply POGs hang onto all the BII. Infantry guys don’t get shit, but the dude who makes omelettes in the Army has a holster, a red dot, and custom grips on his sidearm 😂
@@codygreene9067.....don't forget the Chaplins Aid!!!
Way back when I was an MP, not only did we use M1911 45 cal. pistols, we were taught to shoot single handed with the body facing perpendicular to the subject. Times sure have changed!
Was the logic become a smaller target? Harder to hit someone skinny ways than wideways?
Times have changed but nothing has improved. That Sig looks a little light to me.
@@hannahlistento100EATsomething like that, I'm guessing. The skinniest guys usually carried the M60 unless you were getting very fat. The fat 60 gunner would also be strong underneath the fat so he'd dig 75-90% of the machine gun pit and only get stronger while working off some fat.
@@hannahlistento100EAT yes, that is the reasoning behind it, this was before body armor was in common use.
@@williamcollins2327 how does a gun "look" light. It's just fine. Best shooter I've ever handled.
Lol when I was in the forces WAY TOO LONG AGO, when I was issued my rifle I said I was left handed. The Sergeant behind the counter informed me I was about to become right-handed. I STILL can only shoot right handed lol
Im not going to war shooting offhanded. If i just dont join the military i can buy the rifle i want and thus have a higher chance of survival because i have a rifle built to worm with my dominant side rather than against. If we are going modular systems and systems made to tailor to each individual soldier to a degree, it makes sense to me to have fully ambi weapons because then it doesnt matter. If your right handed and your right fingers are blown apart you can switch to left handed. Or.if im left handed and my battle.buddy gets shot but his rifle is still up, i can use it in the heat of battle wothout having to worry about if its left or right handed if i know its both. Only issue is its very expensive to give everyone fully ambi weapons if theyre only mostly right handed. To me im left handed but if my left hand gets injured i want the rifle to be full ambi so i can shoot left or right handed. I would tbink right handed people want the same. We should all be able to shoot on pur fominant side the best but also our non dominant side for just incase in a fight youre dominant hand is damaged in a way you cant use it as good
I was told to button my top button and be ready to flick hot brass off my face.
@@MonkeyJedi99 lol I can feel the warm, caring tone they used from here!
Nothing wrong with it. Anyone can learn to do anything with either hand, our main hand is just the one we use more, thus it becomes more experienced with movement and we use it as our go to hand.
@@TheAnnoyingBossmy dad shoots right handed guns left handed no problem
US Military: We switched to a modular weapon platform with room for attachments to improve the flexibility and efficiency of our performance
Also US Military: Do no deviate from the standard, unmodified base platform
I'm very much not a gun nut, but I love learning about mechanical devices, so this is the sort of content I enjoy.
The mechanics, engineering, and history of firearms is fascinating.
Ditto which is why I like the 'forgotten weapons' channel too
@@ToolkiT73UK Forgotten Weapons is probably the single best media regarding firearms that's ever been produced. Ian is such a blessing to the community.
Ambidextrous controls means you can switch hands too. If you need to take a shot around the left side of a cover you can use your left hand for the shot .
Unless it needs to be switched to be left or right handed
Yup, you have to switch it. Not something you’ll be doing wounded in combat lmao. 😂
Give me my left handed gun!😂
@@nastystang113 i’ve seen bodycam videos of cops where they do exactly that, shot in their dominant hand and had to use their offhand.
No shite SHERLOCK!!!
McBeth out here looking like a yank tourist in Ireland lol
Here in America the term “Yank or Yankee” refers to someone living in New England. Southerners call everyone north of the Mason Dixie line as “yankee” but that is a holdover from the civil war. It’s a derogatory term when used by a southerner.
@@chairde In Britain and Australia from my own experience, its a term used to describe Americans in general. Every now and then you’d hear someone refer to Americans as ‘yanks’ or something to that degree
@@chairde outside of the US, particularly in common wealth countries generally every American is known as a yank or yankee.
It’s a very common term used by Irish & Irish immigrants, I’d assume first gen would be very aware of it too.
@@chairdeyep! Foreigners use that as a catch all term like how we call the British Brits. The southern us use it as a negative because they are still salty their great great great grandfathers lost the civil war. Which is really strange cause the south definitely wasn’t on the right side of history but that’s my good old homeland for ya!
@@chairde Dude the Brits have been calling Americans Yanks longer than youve been alive.
Crazy the Beretta M9 is being replaced after all these years.
Now the gun market is flooded with used barrettas for like 500 bucks which is pretty awesome. Military barretas can fire p+ 9mm ammo, giving you the stopping power of a 45. And won't damage the weapon
The m17 replaced the 92fs not the m9
Flooded, huh?
I want to buy M9A1. True, military model in 9mm, even if it’s surplus. But anywhere I go and search-it’s out of stock.
That's why we rock at selling weapons. Full disclosure sales pitch. The Beretta is for big hand comfort. Italians make a quality product.
My dad was an MP for 27 years he would trip if he saw the boots and non-starched uniforms 😂, dad was always squared away looking sharp
Well for fun tell him we haven't starched anything since 'O6!
Don’t ever starch your cammies
Starched uniforms are fire hazards
You ruin your uniforms that way now a days. In Basic we were specifically told to only wash them no ironing or starching
@@iphone777it's been over 30 years since Basic and we had to have one starched uniform. The patterns have had ups and downs since woodland camo, but those old black leather boots were deadly in icy environments and the little black metal hasp things were dangerous too if they snagged on something. Better boots these days, better lots of things. Basic has gotten weak and the "Woke"(brain dead) mentality has harmed us as much as 20 years of war with a too small military force. No one should have to do 4, 5, or more rotations unless you are Special Ops or a pilot.
P-320 is a fantastic pistol, I have the VTAC version myself, it is very accurate and I don’t think I have had a single jam so far.
Really I’ve heard a lot of mixed things about the p320
@@jamesknight1587 Sig provided a repair of rhe trigger of the original P-320 to solve the problem and changed the production triggers.
@@johnvahl762 oh I haven’t heard about this, thanks for the info.
@@GyorBox aka literally just a manual safety and different optics mounting solution on a P320
@@jamesknight1587 You're welcome.
Looks like a well made weapon, I'm still a fan of the 1911.
Absolutely! I conceal carry a Para 1911 .45
@@Trick37MP scared of what
@@sarge4455 Meaning? Not sure what you're getting at.
@@sarge4455 what?
Yeah, that or high velocity stuff like the 5.7 would be a good fit to defeat body armor
My least favorite feature on the m9 was its ability to remain safe when dropped.
M17 does not go off when dropped that was fixed long ago
@@sawyerharris6966 Ah yes indeed. I think the point is that is something you shouldn't have to fix after the R&D phase. Certainly not after they've delivered the first batch and taken the money.
@@Corporalk3000 It was a trigger inertia issue, so it only went off if dropped at literally *the* perfect angle. I am an engineer and if you told me we had to drop test and verify through every angle in a 3D axis I think I'd just use the gun to shoot myself.
@@scruggs6633 💀💀💀💀
@@sawyerharris6966 idk i have one less than a year old and if i hit it moderately hard with anything thats not flesh that striker drops.
The Army: "You had me at Modular 😍"
Removable FCU was NOT an Army requirement. The Army's "modular" requirements were abmi-slide catch, ambi-mag release, 17 or more rounds, metal night sights, external safety. All which were met by the competitors (yes including Glock 19X which did have an external safety, but not on the civilian models). So it's more like The Army said "You had me at $100 million dollar LESS than anyone!"
That is one hell of a deployment patch. Respect.
Unless you know.....your an MP
Can you explain for those of us who didn’t serve?
@@timmah2723 United States Special Operations Command deployment patch, means he went on a combat deployment with some special operations folks
@@ambiguitiy1207 and....likely investigated them and broke up bar fights and charged them for drinking. Kinda different from ya know....actually doing special things.
@@StruggleGun first time I've ever heard anyone speaks highly of an MP. We have had vastly different experiences in the same places.
"And could fit the hands of multiple shooters"
The M9 felt like a VCR tape in my hand and didn't inspire confidence.
Some loved it. Some didn't. In CQC in combat or emergent situations an MP might encounter will require that sidearm to fit like a glove and go bang. The M9 / 92FS are excellent full-sized carry pieces even today. Familiarity matters more with pistol than rifle. Much more difficult to be truly top notch, so it probably explains why they wanted something like the SIG design. Berettas are really classy though. They make a .380ACP compact, the 84FS I wanna say - that is excellent and the heft helps in a smaller form factor. It's an Italian James Bond piece. Just like 007 but with more pizazz
@@Chironex_Fleckeri for me, the grip was too wide feeling.
A colt 1911 felt, for lack of a better description, "right" in my hand but the M9 felt all levels of "wrong".
If any of that babbling from me makes sense.
Thankfully I didn't have to qualify with it, just had to be familiar with it.
Yes, the Berretta is ridiculously bulky for a 9mm.
For small handed little boys or females the M9 was a bulky power tool. But God blessed me with very large hands and the M9 ergos felt fantastic, such a flat fast shooter. The M17 feels like any other plastic toy gun, nothing special and I don't trust it to carry. I'd rather stick with Glocks or even better the H&K USP pistols.
I'm remembering the passing of a Canadian service member in Afghanistan, from when they were loading into an APC(?) and the space for their firearms was between the seats - they'd put the sidearm in first, and the primary rifle on top of it - one time, a trigger was depressed on the sidearm, it went off, and got the soldier sitting next to them.
It was standard practice, so they were eventually found not guilty. Not fun though, given it was a friend.
Wondering which safety is most likely to avoid this outcome.
Ryan, I usually love your videos, this one, not so much. I agree that the M17 and M18 pistols are much nice than the M9, the trigger is a dream. I was an Armorer for the Navy and we received M18s at our schoolhouse. We went crazy over the new pistols, until we started shooting them, right away, the cover plate on top of the pistol came off of several of the weapons, due to the retaining screw backing off, (despite having thread locker applied to them). The company specified that the screw could not be reused, so we'd have to order new screws from them, this was later changed by the Navy, so we could just apply loktite and reinstall the screw. Then, during a qualification shoot, a safety lever broke, with normal use. The chassiss for the internal components, while a good idea, looks like clockwork and would be very difficult for anyone without a lot of training to repair or replace components. These weapons are going to people who might have to use them to save their lives or the lives of others and these failures on new weapons are unacceptable. Had the military gone with Glock, they would have received a weapon with a long history of reliablity and that is super simple to repair, even by someone who is not an Armorer. Also, the next gen Glocks have match grade barrel and the gun would cost a little more than half the price of the Sig. Don't get me wrong, I would definitely have a Sig in my collection but I would not want to carry it for duty. I am also not a Glock fanboy, I just appreciate a simple reliable secondary firearm. Thanks for all your informative videos and take care.
Nice vid - I’m looking forward to seeing the rest of your content with the military police
Sarge was like wtf did this guy just call me 😂
Thank you sir. Thank you Ryan. Thank you all for your service, commitment and intergrity. Stay safe.
I love how simply it was explained, but to make it simpler, it’s the lego brick equivalent to a pistol, unlimited possibilities
The M17 won't last too long as the Army's service weapon. The other branches adopted the M18, and it will only be a matter of time until the army is forced to conform procurement reasons.
And for those who want to know. I have both the M17 and M18, the extra inch isn't significant for the supposed increased accuracy
I meaan, despite the almost an inch barrel difference, it's still the same thing, and the m18 is a bit more expensive.
What’s the difference between the two? Is it just barrel length?
That's not what she said 🤨😎✌️
I definitely prefer the M18 over the M17
I remember the Beretta M9 and the feature of an ambidextrous magazine release. Too bad it was against regulations to actually switch it for left handed shooters.
The biggest upgrade about the pistiol isn't the modularity
It's not the striker fired system
It's not the different grip sides
It's not to optic system
It's not the tail
It's not the ambidextrous bits
It's the fact that the safties are down to fire and up to safe and not backwards like the barreta
Those M9s were ridiculously heavy. I carried one when I was a M60 and M240 gunner in the 90s
I tried to enlist as MP but wasn’t allowed because you have to be 21 to carry a handgun even in the military. So I go to the infantry at age 18. At age 19 a year later they say here’s an M60 and an M9 handgun 😂🤫🤣
Love the P320 platform. Super modular and customizable. Right next to the Glock 17 in terms of aftermarket support and parts. Great all around handgun. Whatever you do don't carry one with a round in the chamber because P320s/M17s/M18s have problems when it comes to accidental discharges. Sig just lost a multi million dollar lawsuit with multiple police agencies and dozens of civilians claiming their handguns went off in the holster without the shooter pulling the trigger. Don't know why the US military went with it as their new sidearm. Glock should have won. 80% of law enforcement agencies around the world uses Glock handguns why wouldn't the military do the same as well? If most L.E officers carry them and they are the most popular handgun in the world they must be pretty damn good.
I believe the SIG 320 can also have a caliber change to 40 caliber with the same lower. Change the barrel and the mag.
Yeah. The .40 S&W and .41 Action Express have the same case rim as the 9mm Parabellum.
The M320 also has a drop in part that turns it into a selective-fire machine-pistol.
I can shoot 9 40 or 45 with my SS P250. Change out the barrel and mags
As a retired AF SF member, I
recall we never carried our sidearm with the safety on. The army should consider the same tactic. People tend to forget about the safety when SHTF.
As a chair force SF puke, no one cares. Plus you're lying you're ass off, NO ONE in the military carries with the safety off 🙄
That's why they should have went with the 226. More weight but the double single action makes more sense.
Great seeing my brother MPs. Was Old school 95B in the 80s. Start of a great and long career in LE.
I would love more videos of you talking to military professionals!
Slide locked, finger off trigger, barrel pointed in a safe direction, that is some sexy ass gun handling! FINALLY, an American on the internet that knows how to handle a gun! WE GOT EM BOYS!!
That is the difference between a professional and a tacticool cosplayer.
@@MonkeyJedi99 Sadly, gun laws in America currently don't distinguish between the two. And then people act supprised when mass shootings occur. God I'm glad I live in the UK.
@@SoulDragonWithFlow The stabbings, acid attacks, trucks of peace, and police who arrest you for making a mildly off color joke would like a word...
@@Deathbecomesme3 Hit a nerve, did I? All I said was I am glad I live in the UK, but ok. Let’s do this:
And. Here. We. GO
Stabbings? lol. People get stabbed in the US too. And shot, and everything else. 1v1 Murder is a problem EVERYWHERE. Mass Murder (especially to school kids) is pretty much exclusive to the US and Russia. (I wonder what those two have in common?) Acid Attacks are on a steep decline mostly because we have a competent police force that spend their time investigating and not shooting unarmed civilians. Plus, it’s mostly a tabloid scare-bait story anyway since deaths from acid attacks are rare. 3 people died in 2017 in total and that was at its peak. 3 deaths in a year, not bad. I think your school kids would call that a “good day” if only 3 died. Haha. By comparison, you are ~2.5x more likely to get killed by a COW than by acid in the UK. But nice try.
Furthermore, if you do get hurt or attacked, then people in the UK tend to go to a hospital, since they aren’t worried about an ambulance ride bankrupting them. Healthcare is not as complicated as you lot make it out to be. Literally everyone else figured it out decades ago. The UK, Germany, Italy, Australia, South Korea, Japan, everyone.
If by "truck of peace" you mean using a vehicle as a deadly weapon, once again, that happens everywhere there are cars, which is everywhere. On that note, I think your pickup trucks would like a word. haha.
On the other hand, if you are referring to Islamic-driven vehicles specifically, then that was a problem YOU gave the world. Somehow, I doubt anyone would have that problem if not for a certain radical dictator installed by the US, and when that little piece of foreign influence blew up in your faces, (curtesy of two jumbo jets), you spent the next 20 years trying to clean up the mess you made, only making the global Islamic population hate the west even more since half the time you were sending predator drones to strike schools, farmers and public areas. The tragic thing is that after all that, your STILL went home with your tails in between your legs because you had to re-learn the same lesson from Vietnam; when you are the asshole, killing foreign people on THEIR turf, it doesn’t matter how many you kill; there will always be 5 more wanting revenge for every enemy you take down because IT’S THEIR HOME! They have nowhere else to go so of course they are going to fight. I’m not making excuses for radicalism but you made a bad situation 1000x worse by thinking you had the right and wisdom to medal in another country’s affairs. (Oh, the irony). The US was directly responsible for the rise of radical Islam and was (even more ironically) the biggest recruitment tool ISIS could have hoped for. And don’t even get me started on you shooting allied British soldiers in the war you started. So yeah, on behalf of the western world, I’d like to say, “Thanks for the ‘Trucks of Peace’ United Shits of Assholes.”
In all sincerity, I will give you the anti-joke one. The most egregious example of that is the Count Dankula incident. But that was an outlier until this year. The concepts of individual freedom and free speech, that every man’s home is his castle and ownership of human beings was not to be tolerated were all practically invented by the UK. I heard one person who is somewhat of an authority on the subject describe the parliament building as something like “the foundation from which the whole western world was built”. Something like that; I forget the exact quote. All that changed this year when the powers-that-be very quietly passed a bill outlawing any act of “public nascence” ahead of the king’s coronation; probably because it makes for seriously bad optics to see a guy of unimaginable wealth getting a gold hat, when half the country is struggling to pay for the electricity bills. (Thanks, Russia, for that!) TBH, I am NOT a patriot at the best of times, but I can’t say I have ever been actively ashamed of my country. Until now. I can’t tell you how much shame and embarrassment our corrupt “leaders” putting that bill through has caused me. There is no excuse. We know better. And one day that law WILL be repealed. That said, the USA is not completely blameless in that one either since the war on free speech that has gripped all western countries over the last 10 or so years was caused by 3rd-4th wave feminism that took root in American adult day cares - oops, sorry, I meant “American Universities.”
@@SoulDragonWithFlow Nowhere is perfect but I will never be convinced that its a better system to live somewhere that has decided that only the rural landowning classes can possess a shotgun, its one thing to have systems in place to determine if some one is too much of an extremist nutcase to own a gun, its entirely different when the permission is based near entirely on your wealth such as it is in places like the UK, Australia, and Germany. The European nations were always about the rights of the gentry however so nothing has really changed since the days of Charlemagne.
I was an SP in the late 70's. These modern troops don't know how good they have it. We had S&W .38 revolvers. The ammo was so bad, it would rattle down the barrel.
I bought an M17 as a personal weapon. Our department requires use to use Glocks for duty, but I qualified with the Sig as an off-duty gun. I LOVE mine!
All these options to change or upgrade the pistol for the Soldier and we will still have CDRs or Arms Room NCOs who will tell you to get bent on your requests.
The m17 looks like a fine tool.
My local pd is moving away from the p320 after several officers had it discharge in their holsters.
as a civilian, I own a M17, have changed out the grip for a Wilson combat grip, put a x300u surefire on it and a delta point pro. Have 4 21's, 2 17's and a lol30 round mags for it. Great pistol.
It does something really cool when you drop it, too!
Yeah it's so badass it shoots on its own 😂
Now you have an excuse when you shoot yourself
God damn national guard guys with their sleeves trucked like they are tier one operators.
I still love the old M1911, yes only 7 rounds but great knock down power
For decades the military ignored pistols. As an example when I served pistols weren't fired or trained in the Infantry Officers Basic Course. We only had 6 1911's in a H series Infantry Company.
Could you do a video explaining the Army's new focus?
I think the focus depends on MOS. I was a tanker several decades ago and we did train pistols, M1911s at the time. All tankers carried pistols and we had M3 grease guns in the vehicles.
You should probably rephrase it. The military pre 1985 actually had a wide range of handguns. Both pistols and revolvers. And in many cases were relying on basically inventory from World War 2. It was time to standardize. Move to a NATO standard and get rid of revolvers. There was also a need for a smaller gun. That became the M11.
@@ericboyle8296 people need to think outside of the infantry box. Especially when it comes to handguns. It is the folks whose primary weapon who is not a rifle, that have a need for them.
@@WALTERBROADDUS in the 1980's a rifle company issued 1911's to M60 gunners and section leaders in the 81mm Platoon. Officers, Senior NCO'S and everyone else ( except medics) carried rifles. Recently I read a published report that even fire team leaders will be issued pistols.
This is a massive change in TOE. I am curious if this is due to the increased interest in MOUT training.
@@WALTERBROADDUSYeah,when I was stationed at Ft.Polk,La.,the MP's carried WW2 S&W Victory model revolvers,I was issued and qualified with a WW2 M1911A1.
,
Nice to see someone not using Austrian plastic polymer for once
They didn't meet the requirements of the competition.
Glock was the clear winner and won in all the categories except price. That's the only reason the Sig was picked over the Glock. Budget Cuts. LOL. That being said the Sig is still a decent gun.
100% not true. It was because the price was better. Ironically the civilian version cost more.. LOL
Yes becasue German plastic polymer is different right? Look up the Kings or Germania. Austria and Germany are the same but Glock is better. Hahahahaha
@@leebarrr civilian pricing and the contract to the military are entirely different things. The contract is more than just buying the pistol.
95 Bravo! “Of the troops, For the troops!” (We carried the M1911A1 when I was an MP.) The Sig series of pistols are great and I’m sure they will serve the MP corps well into the future.
Brave man you are, McBeth.
MPs are still the Infantry’s mortal enemy. I remember a time where the only reason an MP would stop in our AO was to fuel up at the point and be on their way or otherwise face the barrage of beer bottles.
In combat and your main weapon is out of ammo, don't matter what your side arm is you're dead
I love that pistol so much, I have three myself. The configurability of that weapons system is perfect. Do you do any recreational shooting now that you are in the civilian world?
That’s how I feel about 1911’s I have six !
I was in USAF Security Police way back when. I carried a Smith and Wesson .38 Combat Masterpiece revolver.
I’d feel like a grandpa carrying that today
@@wayman1776 You would be right!🤣🤣🤣
Ohhh MP’s, busting guys with real jobs who just need to let off a bit of steam.
Should I have pissed on their guard shack? Probably not but we just got back from a shitty deployment and were skunked. Good times
I'm loving these videos where you get active military personal to give descriptions about current and new equipment
Looking forward to more
Lol, i like how he puts his whole hand in front of the barrel after releasing the slide.
Only had the opportunity to shoot pistols half a dozen times in my life. This unit still looks awesome compared to most. Heaviest I ever shot was a 38 calibre. It was near impossible to hit anything at 25 yards.
I carried a glock for awhile and even though I had plenty of experience of guns I felt uneasy with the safety so I moved to a baretta so I had the manual safety.
yeah like, i know on paper assumeing you do everything right nothing can go wrong,
but dispite how well practaced i am i am infact, still a human capable of error, the extra step just seems a good redundancy
And it shoots when dropped, well done Army
I own one, it’s a very nice handgun, very easy to control and use.
Cadwaladr. Great Welsh name!
They have cooler toy's today than we had back in the day. All we had to play with were .45 pistols and M16 rifles. 😢
But does a pistol need to be modular?
It does have some advantages soldiers with small hands do benefit from the interchangeable grip frames but that doesn't do you any good when it blows your finger off due to an out of battery discharge
Need? probably not, but it makes matainence and repair much easier.
Bend a 1911 frame? the guns shoved, salvage the slide and barrel for parts if possible,
bend a M9 frame? same
Bend a M17 frame? switch out a 30 dollar plastic part
NCNG here, just got off AT recently. while on AT, we spent a couple days on the field for weapons qual (M4 mostly, 'cause of course). I was among a few selected randomly for M17 "familiarization" (there were a couple people who needed to qual on M17 but they had a lot of ammo--so they brought in some extra bodies to run through the qual for gits and shiggles), and it was _an experience._
firstly, the pistol qual course is pretty fun. especially the last iteration where you get to engage a couple targets while moving--felt like a regular _John Wick,_ I tells ye.
secondly, the M17 shoots real nice. liked it a lot from an ergonomics and firing experience standpoint.
*_now here's where the problem comes in._*
I had just gotten to that third iteration in the qual, just gotten up from the kneel and reloaded the weapon. begin moving, first target pops up, and I fire at it--and it fires back at me.
by which I actually mean that _the optic plate and rear sight break off of the slide and jettison themselves at my face_ (god bless ESS Crossbows, the best eyepro).
rear sight hit me right on the eyepro, optic plate hit me right _below_ the eyepro (left a nice little scratch and bump), and apparently some tiny jagged bits of screw or something ended up in my forehead, since I was informed shortly after being cleared off the line that my forehead was bleeding.
a CW3 on the scene said it's because Sig has a habit of not applying Loctite to the screw that holds that whole assembly together; how true that is, I dunno, since I obviously am not involved in the manufacture/production of the M17, but he said it in a manner that screamed that this was not his first rodeo.
TL;DR: _Loctite your shit, lest you get blasted by your own blaster._
Neat. That module looks like a coupe of repurposed P-38s.
Also has an auto discharge feature when holstered or dropped. Forgot to mention that part.
Boy you guys hear something and just go all in believing shit😆how many of those you wanna bet were actually negligent discharges that the dumbshits didn’t wanna admit to?🤔funny how our entire Texas State Patrol carry’s em but you don’t hear much coming outa that camp🦗🦗🦗
@@jfrog1979 Over 100 reports of the pistol discharge without the trigger being pulled.
Pending 10 lawsuits.
Multiple settled lawsuits with non disclosure agreements.
Multiple documented body camera footage of officers simply exiting their vehicles weapon holstered and pistol discharge on camera on its own.
One case out of Texas. I don’t remember what city.
Multiple agencies have made the switch from Sig p320 back to Glock.
Sounds to me like you just choose to ignore the facts.
No other firearm has had these problems.
Does it malfunction as much as the 320? This is a dangerous gun and constantly discharges when dropped.
Why would you drop it?
GorillaGuerilla🇺🇦 accidents happen and crap happens, especially on a battlefield or gunfight. Tons of lawsuits with this gun currently. There's better, safer out there.
@@sethblue5030
I'm perfectly satisfied with my M18 - I’ve never dropped a gun by accident - I’m in my mid fifties and spend most of my adult life in the armed forces of my country…
I had an HK USP Compact issued for a while, and it was great as well.
I did read about malfunctions in the M17 early on, but either it just doesn’t happen with the M18 or we're just better at keeping the gun in our hand instead of dropping it!
GorillaGuerilla🇺🇦 accidental discharges go beyond dropping, people bump into stuff all the time. I'm happy you've had no issues but don't deny that there's no issues with this design.
@@sethblue5030
Oh, I didn’t deny there was issues with the M17 when it was taken into service - but we haven’t had any problems with the M18 and to my understanding SigSauer has fixed the problem that some experienced in the beginning!
I was a bit skeptic about it before they issued us with the M18 because we had heard the stories from the US regarding the M17 - but we were assured that SigSauer was on it - and I was pleasantly surprised about how well the gun is to handle…
Great video, Ryan... Quality editing, and despite not being a huge gun guy, I love technical gear discussion, and I appreciate hearing it directly from the professional end users. 💪🤙
I remember qualing with the M17 in training. Had our ammo get recalled, lmao
this sergeant does not mess around, im assuming by his combat patch that he formerly served in JSOC
Fun Fact, they didn't need a new pistol, the M9 was fine.
They just wanted to spend money and some politician's son runs the company.
Yeah that sounds about right…
Back when I was a 19K the barreta was our side arm and loved it. That M17 looks way better and sounds like its a way better fit.
The question is, do you tailor it to troops and mission as designed or do you issue it “one size fits all” just like the old days?
Bonus question: do pistol training time and training ammunition budgets still suck?
Man had too many donuts
Why is the M17 so important? Because someone owed Sig a favor and Sig wanted to get paid.
I absolutely love my p320 carry. it's an M18 without the manual safety and proprietary optic cut. it's a great pistol imho.
So I know it looks like its “clear and safe”… but it’s pretty bad when their NCO is flagging his own hand… rule #1 muzzle always in safe direction/treat every gun as “loaded”…
The Army never performed the endurance test on these so they have no idea what the failure point on any of the parts is. An aftermarket company has introduced an internal part made from higher quality materials to prevent the out of battery discharges competition shooters have been having with the P320s when they start getting higher round counts on their guns. They should have adopted the glock but the general's involved in the M17 selection process now have cush jobs at SIG funny how that works because Glock doesn't waste money on having useless people sit around
False. Read the actual contract. The army needed modularity to make the firearms more easy for armorers to swap and replace parts at the ground level. They also needed the company to be able to provide ammunition. Glock doesnt check any of those boxes. Sig was the full systems provider. Glock was not. Glock does not produce ammunition and does not have a modular system to easily swap parts out.
This take is absolute garbage without truth. Sig Sauer makes an outstanding firearm. Just ask the Navy Seals……….
@@alrbredwall modularity, ammo and the requirement that the pistol would not have to have the hammer dropped (fired) for disassembly and cleaning. I think the "safety police" were abit over reaching with that requirement.
@nitrometh42 that is fairly standard with the big army.
Couple more sit-ups, run a bit more; those stripes will look a lot better afterwards.
Everyone looks like a chubnut in ACU. He has a SOCOM combat patch and a CAB.
Thanks for your videos Ryan, I have subscribed to your substack, am retired engineer w/ USACE, then SDDCTEA and SDDC G6, had pleasure to visit many installations.
That is an impressive piece of death dealing engineering
Say no to the M17; embrace the M1911A1 for ever
It's day has long passed as a combat piece.
Hey Sergeant Caddy try not to put your hand in front of the barrel when you release that slide. 999 times out of a thousand nothing will happen, but that one time. Now ask me how I know. Remember you fight like you train.
I have this exact gun and i love it. The only thing i can complain about is that the distance between the top of my hand/grip to the bottom of the barrel/bore is too high, so you get a good bit of flip-up. I need a muzzle break or suppressor for it. But sig makes you pay nearly 300$ for a threaded barrel 🥲
If I ever do get a gun I decided it would be that one well the civilian version at least. From what I’ve read and heard it’s a pretty good gun.
We all know the reason why the Military adopted the Sig over the M&P: 💰💰
Wrong. They adopted the sig because they want EVERYONE to be mission ready. Which means yeah, those accessibility changes were necessary. Be quiet.
Shut up. They chose it because it was good.
No, Sig met the specifications asked for. The rejected Fanboy pistols didn't.
How old is that E5? He looks like someone’s grandpa.
He's maintaining grooming standards. Early 30s
Great to hear from a Sgt. working with the piece. well done all.
Yep. Milspec p320. Wish my p320 came with a safety by default. I hear I can get a milling kit to put one in on my FCU on that pistol
Damn the army got swindled.
Someone: "Modular."
Army: "I take one million of that."
Maaaan, he’s still in. He was an E5 redhead Armorer when I enlisted in 1986!
Sig also undercut Glock by $100M on the contract bid, but after they won the contract, the final procurement came to $480M more than their initial bid.
I love how this guy knows how to read a brochure. I love how they say that you can change the grip sizes for different sized hands and whatnot, I would also love to know how many other grip sizes that they have for other shooters. I don't really get how the grip changes out for different slide....🤷🙄🤨. But I do love how the optics plate comes off and 1) you completely loose your rear sight, so therefore if the battery dies in your optic or it breaks, goes down or shears off you now no longer have a rear sight.... 🤦♂️🤦♂️. Then 2) the screws that hold the rear cover plate/rear sight drops out of the bottom.... Where all of the working internals are, so this way when the screw comes out it will drop outta your gun and create a hard stoppage....🤦♂️🤦♂️. So FYI you do you use a pistol in the military, 1) in case your rifle goes down you can draw and transition to your pistol until you can take cover and get your pistol back up and running. If your pistol goes down, you're probably gonna be in trouble. And 2) you're only issued a pistol (i.e. PMO/Military Police) and it's the only thing that you've got and if that goes down, you're probably gonna be in a little bit of trouble. It's great that it's modular, but they're most likely never gonna use most of the modularity.
I loved the Beretta M9 but that grip was absurdly fat for my hands. And my hands ain't tiny.
I couldn't hit the 50m target during pistol qualifications to save my life with the M9, but with this M17, and without changing my method at all, I nailed every single target. It's a much better handgun all around.
I heard from a family friend in the army that this gun itself jams a lot even fresh out the case.
Technically the whole lower frame gets changed out not just the grips. The fire control module he is pulling out in the video is the serialized weapon everything else is a part or accessory. Requirement was to have a weapon that could be used by hand sizes between the 5th and 95th percentile
If you were an MP assigned to Kelley Hill on Ft. Benning from 2000-2003. I apologize for the tire stem removals and expanding foam in your exhaust pipe. Scouts Out!
I'm a civilian who concealed carries the compact M18 version of this gun and I love it
Nice piece of kit.thank you for this video
Love the presentation
The Army every year: *" We need a lighter handgun"*