As a recovery off-road vehicle this is the best kit in the world, all you need is a winch and you can circle the globe physically speaking. I really like attending your class Robert.
I use a lewis winch chainsaw winch with 1/4 inch high strength aircraft steel cable. I have a horrible time when I use hooks on the end of my cable. I use my winch lot, and replace my cable about every 10 days of heavy use. With a hook my steel cable breaks, comes undone or tares stuff all the time. Now I just tie the cable to a bow shackle with two half hitches then put a 1.5 ton load on the line with a pare of vice grips on the end of the line so the knot stays tight. Once tight I find this setup mostly indestructible, the line always breaks somewhere other than at the knot and I am operating at near cable break strength with 1/3 of my pulls. The bow shackle is cheap and indestructible! Thanks again for taking the time to test and review the options!
With a hook or bow shackle at the end of your winch line, there are rubber stoppers that you can buy online that allow you to pull the hook/shackle against the fairlead while avoiding metal on metal contact.
The Mile Marker rubber winch shackle mount is a great way to protect your line from damage from the elements, and protects your hawse from the shackle.
Interesting discussion. I agree with your points about the small, cheap hook on the end of most winch cables. Those Warne Epic hooks shown at the end are interesting. That blocky thing that still requires some kind of shackle to do anything looks like a great way to spend money for show. There are 2 downsides to the soft shackle, assuming we are talking about something permanently attached to the end of your winch cable. First, UV light degrades the material. Second, dirt and water also can degrade the material. I really like soft shackles, but not for this application.
@@L2SFBC oh I get it now. My problem is mud - like every ride. Any soft shackle hanging off the front of my side-by-side would be grungy in 10 minutes and would stay that way. Thanks for your content.
@nobodyimaginethat I am aware of that and I guess you could keep the soft shackle elsewhere. I’m so used to the hook being on the end of the cable that taking the shackle off hadn’t occurred to me.
Just an empty eye at the end of the winch line. A shackle is likely to be used anyway. A hook or any metal part is superfluous. The other option is a Y-end having an eye and a crown knot for a built in soft shackle.
I see most ropes terminate in a standard thimble, these can bend under heavy loads. There are reinforced thimbles that well not bend and easy job to install on rope.
From South Africa Morning 07, 00 on stunning-day morning. Some more of me contacting about snatch pulley VS snatch pulley. Appreciate your take. Snatch pulley (of which I already have 2) affords me the option of using my 30m winch extention ROPE (not dynema) and to loan it out where the recovery is winch with cable based IE I'm not doing the recovery. Both of these considerations are cost effective as I don't have to replace my 2 30m winch extention ropes with dynema rope. So I'm now back to the start, questioning the benefits of converting from the heavy snatch pulley to winch rings
You got the physics worked out. Loving the learning Robert. Late comer to the laws of physics. I am learning alot in your class. Thank you Robert, do you mind if refer to you as my mentor in my off road community in Newfoundland
Great video, but what about security? A lot of sticky fingers around these days. What's to stop somebody from walking away with a soft shackle or a bow shackle? The Flat Link would require pre planning and determination to steal.
i would like information on the Chinese factor 55 knock off's that are identical besides one reading made in America and one says made in China. They are so identical i would be willing to bet they are both made in China even the Factor 55 ones.
Hi Robert - in the case of a standard Hawse Fairlead, the factor 55 flat link or ultra hook becomes a frontal projection - any idea how this goes with VicRoads rules about frontal prominences ? - with a roller fairlead, like you showed, it’s no more prominent than the rollers- appreciate your thoughts on this
Wouldn't it be wise to mount the bow of the shackle on the rigid part and the pin which, as you showed in the video, is the breaking point on the elastic part? This would reduce the bullet-like accidents and dangers caused by the bow.
What are you thoughts on some new winch lines with integrated soft shackles at the end? I would have thought removing any metal from the equation would be a big boost to safety, therefore soft shackle (either independent or integrated into winch rope) would be preferred. Thanks
@@L2SFBC Interestingly I contacted george4x4 and they did some testing on integrated soft shackle winch lines and they found the breaking force was 20% less than an equivalent non-integrated line
Most recovery points are sharp edged, particularly those on the front of the vehicle and bullbars - soft edged rear hitches seem to be a bit more common. I have roadsafe points and haven't seen them update their line with any rounded edges for the soft shackle era. Any idea how much risk there actually is with a sheathed soft shackle in sharp edged recovery points? If visually theres no damage would it be fine, or could even a brand new soft shackle shear off. Thanks for your help
@@danlux4954 my stuff is organized and in soft bags, so no problem finding things. My winch line terminates at a soft loop which I hook over my freespool handle, thus keeping everything under the winch cover and out of harms way when not in use. To each their own I guess! I'd make sure I justified the use of a $200 winch hook too! 😉 (Just busting your balls there in good humor, no disrespect meant sir) Happy winching all!
Rob, why not just have a "knob" (as in part of the soft-shackle) on the end of the winch rope? This to my mind would be the safest option, as any other "bow" from an other soft-shackle can be attached, no metal flying through the air.
Morning Rob, thank you for the video. Do you know if your cheap and nasty clevis hook is suitable to attach safety chains when towing a caravan? They will be a quick and easy solution rather than the D shackle everytime. Appreaciate your thoughts. Thank you.
I'd use rate shackles. From VicRoads: Do I need a load-rated shackle to connect my safety chain/cable? Whilst using a load-rated shackle isn’t mandatory, it’s a good idea to choose a shackle to suit your trailer and towing vehicle. Suitable shackles include: shackles supplied as original equipment by the original vehicle manufacturer (e.g. Ford, Holden, Toyota etc.) shackles supplied by an original equipment tow bar manufacturer shackles that are rated and compliant with Australian Standard AS 2741 “Shackles” or other equivalent recognised standards AND the break load limit of the shackle is rated at least 1.5 times greater than the Aggregate Trailer Mass (ATM) of the trailer (see below for example).
This is another big topic I've been thinking of latley . Most winches now a days come with a big hook on the end of the cable. I suspect these hooks are plenty strong but ivre always wondered, why add another breaking point? I always wondered why not just ditch the hook and connect the bow shackle right into the rope eyelet, like you showed here . >> Is there any reason why someone couldn't remove the typical hook that comes on a winch and just connect the shackle directly to the rope eyelet? In my case I notice the rope eyelet doesn't accept a typical shackle pin, since it's too wide so I may be destined to use the hook and stock pin
Very informative, but in your last slide comparing the summaries, its says you can side load a bow shackle. I have been told by many sources (including Factor 55) that this is not advisable. Do you believe side loading is safe and/or advisable, or is it more 'in case of emergency' use only?
Love the comparison. What do you think of this FairLead from Yankum Ropes? It auto-played right after your video. Allows you to leave your synthetic winch line looped onto the edge of the FairLead & is protected from damage? Can just leave soft shackles, hooks or Factor 55's in a bag.: th-cam.com/video/dyMzNnSmdfU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=KYkMntPSkm_tsj5b
As a recovery off-road vehicle this is the best kit in the world, all you need is a winch and you can circle the globe physically speaking. I really like attending your class Robert.
I use a lewis winch chainsaw winch with 1/4 inch high strength aircraft steel cable. I have a horrible time when I use hooks on the end of my cable. I use my winch lot, and replace my cable about every 10 days of heavy use. With a hook my steel cable breaks, comes undone or tares stuff all the time.
Now I just tie the cable to a bow shackle with two half hitches then put a 1.5 ton load on the line with a pare of vice grips on the end of the line so the knot stays tight. Once tight I find this setup mostly indestructible, the line always breaks somewhere other than at the knot and I am operating at near cable break strength with 1/3 of my pulls. The bow shackle is cheap and indestructible!
Thanks again for taking the time to test and review the options!
Thank you for the informative post!
With a hook or bow shackle at the end of your winch line, there are rubber stoppers that you can buy online that allow you to pull the hook/shackle against the fairlead while avoiding metal on metal contact.
Excellent work Robert. Thank you.
You are very welcome
The Mile Marker rubber winch shackle mount is a great way to protect your line from damage from the elements, and protects your hawse from the shackle.
Another great video Rob, thank you. Such a mix of properties, cost, strength, speed, look, use ability etc. Very informative.👍
Interesting discussion. I agree with your points about the small, cheap hook on the end of most winch cables. Those Warne Epic hooks shown at the end are interesting. That blocky thing that still requires some kind of shackle to do anything looks like a great way to spend money for show.
There are 2 downsides to the soft shackle, assuming we are talking about something permanently attached to the end of your winch cable. First, UV light degrades the material. Second, dirt and water also can degrade the material. I really like soft shackles, but not for this application.
Agreed, but if you consider soft shackles as disposable, and they are over a longer or shorter time, then that can work. Agree re the blocky thing!
@@L2SFBC oh I get it now. My problem is mud - like every ride. Any soft shackle hanging off the front of my side-by-side would be grungy in 10 minutes and would stay that way. Thanks for your content.
Mud. Ugh. Yes, get your point, and thank you for the compliment :-)
@nobodyimaginethat I am aware of that and I guess you could keep the soft shackle elsewhere. I’m so used to the hook being on the end of the cable that taking the shackle off hadn’t occurred to me.
Soft eye in the winch line with 4.75T bow shackle and spare soft shackle. Cheapest, most universal and safest setup.
Tend to agree. Have used a bow shackle for years. However, that's me...I leave others to make their choice with the information provided.
Just an empty eye at the end of the winch line. A shackle is likely to be used anyway. A hook or any metal part is superfluous.
The other option is a Y-end having an eye and a crown knot for a built in soft shackle.
have to keep in mind the ball on the end of a soft shackle is almost as hard as steel i saw one bend a fender really bad on a 4wd truck
I see most ropes terminate in a standard thimble, these can bend under heavy loads. There are reinforced thimbles that well not bend and easy job to install on rope.
Thanks, your videos are very informative - much appreciated
From South Africa Morning 07, 00 on stunning-day morning.
Some more of me contacting about snatch pulley VS snatch pulley. Appreciate your take.
Snatch pulley (of which I already have 2) affords me the option of using my 30m winch extention ROPE (not dynema) and to loan it out where the recovery is winch with cable based IE I'm not doing the recovery.
Both of these considerations are cost effective as I don't have to replace my 2 30m winch extention ropes with dynema rope.
So I'm now back to the start, questioning the benefits of converting from the heavy snatch pulley to winch rings
Don't understand your question?
You got the physics worked out. Loving the learning Robert. Late comer to the laws of physics. I am learning alot in your class. Thank you Robert, do you mind if refer to you as my mentor in my off road community in Newfoundland
I'd be proud 👏
Great video, but what about security? A lot of sticky fingers around these days. What's to stop somebody from walking away with a soft shackle or a bow shackle? The Flat Link would require pre planning and determination to steal.
Pull it tight in and that's been deterrent enough in my experience.
i would like information on the Chinese factor 55 knock off's that are identical besides one reading made in America and one says made in China. They are so identical i would be willing to bet they are both made in China even the Factor 55 ones.
I want to know how to put soft shackle at the end of winch. The problem is that the winch rope is not thick enough for a big soft shackle.
Whats the point of that flat link? Why not use the soft shackle straight through the winch rope end?
Well, yes you could do that...the FlatLink does go hard up on the hawse/rollers and looks cool! But, extra cost and metal in the rig.
I have the Ultrahook, it’s a flatlink with a hook built in.
Hi Robert - in the case of a standard Hawse Fairlead, the factor 55 flat link or ultra hook becomes a frontal projection - any idea how this goes with VicRoads rules about frontal prominences ? - with a roller fairlead, like you showed, it’s no more prominent than the rollers- appreciate your thoughts on this
Can't say for sure but suspect it'd be ok
Wouldn't it be wise to mount the bow of the shackle on the rigid part and the pin which, as you showed in the video, is the breaking point on the elastic part? This would reduce the bullet-like accidents and dangers caused by the bow.
What are you thoughts on some new winch lines with integrated soft shackles at the end? I would have thought removing any metal from the equation would be a big boost to safety, therefore soft shackle (either independent or integrated into winch rope) would be preferred. Thanks
I like the idea of removing metal, so yes good idea.
@@L2SFBC Interestingly I contacted george4x4 and they did some testing on integrated soft shackle winch lines and they found the breaking force was 20% less than an equivalent non-integrated line
Most recovery points are sharp edged, particularly those on the front of the vehicle and bullbars - soft edged rear hitches seem to be a bit more common. I have roadsafe points and haven't seen them update their line with any rounded edges for the soft shackle era. Any idea how much risk there actually is with a sheathed soft shackle in sharp edged recovery points? If visually theres no damage would it be fine, or could even a brand new soft shackle shear off. Thanks for your help
Not a massive risk, just not ideal for longer use particuarly where it rubs. Saber sheathed shackles are good.
For cost and strength and ease of use I use a shackle, I don’t see the point of joining a shackle to the factor 55 or a soft shackle to the winch.
Tend to agree Jim
The shackle hangs down and could catch on stuff, Factor55 Ultrahook XTV doesn’t hang down.
@@danlux4954 ......So only hook the shackle up to the line when you need to winch.
@@dfhutton where do you carry it? Bounce around in the box and then have to take everything out to use it. I’ll stick with my Ultrahook xtv.
@@danlux4954 my stuff is organized and in soft bags, so no problem finding things.
My winch line terminates at a soft loop which I hook over my freespool handle, thus keeping everything under the winch cover and out of harms way when not in use.
To each their own I guess! I'd make sure I justified the use of a $200 winch hook too! 😉 (Just busting your balls there in good humor, no disrespect meant sir) Happy winching all!
Rob, why not just have a "knob" (as in part of the soft-shackle) on the end of the winch rope? This to my mind would be the safest option, as any other "bow" from an other soft-shackle can be attached, no metal flying through the air.
Don't quite follow sorry?
Morning Rob, thank you for the video. Do you know if your cheap and nasty clevis hook is suitable to attach safety chains when towing a caravan? They will be a quick and easy solution rather than the D shackle everytime. Appreaciate your thoughts. Thank you.
I'd use rate shackles. From VicRoads:
Do I need a load-rated shackle to connect my safety chain/cable?
Whilst using a load-rated shackle isn’t mandatory, it’s a good idea to choose a shackle to suit your trailer and towing vehicle.
Suitable shackles include:
shackles supplied as original equipment by the original vehicle manufacturer (e.g. Ford, Holden, Toyota etc.)
shackles supplied by an original equipment tow bar manufacturer
shackles that are rated and compliant with Australian Standard AS 2741 “Shackles” or other equivalent recognised standards AND the break load limit of the shackle is rated at least 1.5 times greater than the Aggregate Trailer Mass (ATM) of the trailer (see below for example).
This is another big topic I've been thinking of latley . Most winches now a days come with a big hook on the end of the cable. I suspect these hooks are plenty strong but ivre always wondered, why add another breaking point? I always wondered why not just ditch the hook and connect the bow shackle right into the rope eyelet, like you showed here .
>> Is there any reason why someone couldn't remove the typical hook that comes on a winch and just connect the shackle directly to the rope eyelet? In my case I notice the rope eyelet doesn't accept a typical shackle pin, since it's too wide so I may be destined to use the hook and stock pin
Some people are doing this yes. I will investigate strength loss.
I didn’t like the big hook that came with winch I just installed so was thinking about not using it.
Very informative, but in your last slide comparing the summaries, its says you can side load a bow shackle. I have been told by many sources (including Factor 55) that this is not advisable. Do you believe side loading is safe and/or advisable, or is it more 'in case of emergency' use only?
Thanks for the question, always prefer people to ask. All explained here -> th-cam.com/video/1pH2VuD3I1g/w-d-xo.html
@@L2SFBC point 11! Very informative and the rest of the video provided new knowledge, thank you very much! :)
Love the comparison. What do you think of this FairLead from Yankum Ropes? It auto-played right after your video. Allows you to leave your synthetic winch line looped onto the edge of the FairLead & is protected from damage? Can just leave soft shackles, hooks or Factor 55's in a bag.: th-cam.com/video/dyMzNnSmdfU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=KYkMntPSkm_tsj5b
I think it's a good idea but I prefer rollers.
Soft shackle, no metal.