An Embarrassingly Long Analysis of the 7 Lightsaber Combat Forms
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Sees lightsaber forms. Sees length of video. Nerd mode engage.
Lol. Yes.
Facts.
Love it Same
Yeah take note andor
#andorsucks
Engaged of course
Hahahaha!! This one was SUPER fun. I hope you all enjoy and thank you for having me on as always Stupendous Wave!
You 6.7 beast i agree with all you say
I definitely do come back soon ❤
We need a SW video game with the lightsaber forms in a skill tree.
Hell yeah we do!
Good thinking
May the force be with you always Hayden Christensen general master sir
Good thank you so much merci
Awesome, I saw “embarrassingly long” and it didn’t disappoint, great video man! There is no such thing as a long video for SW :)
How would you know? You commented 2 minutes after the video went live? Lol
I like to watch these kinds of long lore videos while I'm cooking, cleaning or just trying to fall asleep.
same. always passing out listening to 3+ hr star wars, 40k, GOT, LOTR, game retrospectives.
Hope you enjoy!
Big facts
or eating
Now THIS is just what I needed!
Makashi is my favourite Lightsaber Style, it's just so sophisticated and elegant.
I like Form V Djem S0 & VII Vaapad myself!!!
@@eugenelau3927 My other favoured Forms are Form VII Juyo & Form III Soresu, I also like Jar'Kai and Telekinetic Lightsaber Combat.
Weapon
Of course I do care about the comments and the people I care about is Skywalker's only and respect for the other jedi masters and padawans as well
I agreed with dgem powers of course form 5
My favorite users of the known lightsaber forms:
Form I Shii-Cho: Lucien Draay, Kit Fisto, Kento Marek, Every Jedi Youngling.
Form II Makashi: Count Dooku, Asajj Ventress, Jerec, Shaak Ti.
Form III Soresu: Obi-Wan Kenobi, Darth Zannah, Kanan Jarrus, Luminara Unduli, Barriss Offee.
Form IV Ataru: Yoda, Qui-Gon Jinn, Ezra Bridger, Aayla Secura, Quinlan Vos, Ahsoka Tano, Darth Talon, An’ya Kuro.
Form V Shien/Djem So: Anakin Skywalker, Luke Skywalker, Plo Koon, Ulic Qel Droma, Darth Bane, Galen Marek, Ahsoka Tano
Form VI Niman: Exar Kun, Darth Krayt, Kao Cen Darach, Cal Kestis(implied), Starkiller clone, Darth Plagueis(implied), Darth Maul, Darth Sidious, Revan
Form VII Juyo/Vaapad: Mace Windu, Darth Maul, Rahm Kota, Darth Sidious, Sora Bulq, Depa Billaba.
Three Rings of Defense: Most members of Luke Skywalker’s New Jedi Order
Trakata: Darth Traya, Corran Horn
No Revan mention in Niman???
Bane also knows form 3 and is near Obi Wann level of it
Add revan, sidious and maul to the list of form 6 masters.
Ahsoka tends to use a combination of Ataru and Shien with a bit of Djem So thrown in when she needs a bit more power.Sidious used a combination of Niman and Juyo.
Props for the Corran Horn reference.
Just lighted the reefer and then comes this gem in, thanks for this hilarious amount of work you sick geniuses!
Oh boy, this is gotta be the biggest Holocron yet
I'd like to believe that because Windu understood the blade motions of form 7 better than any Jedi of his era, he was able to successfully mount a defense against Palpatine's initial offensive explosion at the very beginning of their dule, and match his saber skill. The other Jedi Masters in the room could not anticipate the strikes that were coming at them, and were unfamiliar with the bladework, speed, and ferocity of going up against a true master of form 7, so they were surprised, and quickly killed. Also, there were hardly any Juyo practitioners in the galaxy, let alone the Jedi Order, and most Jedi mainly practiced against other members of their own order in sparring. Battling Sith Lords (the apex predators of Force wielders) was even more of a rarity, let alone fighting blade to blade with a Dark Lord as powerful and furocious as Sidious. Some of that is probably just my own head canon, but that's the fun of Star Wars. Everyone see's the subtleties of the lore in their own unique way. It's a never ending discussion, and that's why we love it so much.
It’s nice hearing this kind of unedited conversation from you!
Honestly would love to see more episodes like this
It would be very interesting to see both Obi-Wan Kenobi and Barriss Offee dueling, even though we all know that Obi-Wan would win but the duel would last for probably a very long time due to the fact that both Obi-Wan and Barriss are skilled at form 3.
Kenobi is also skilled in form 4, and at least according to TCW cartoon, offee's main form is 6.
@@drakethesnek6429I’m not taking about “dark jedi Barriss” I’m referring to padawan Barriss because she used form 3 a lot in the beginning of the clone wars before she turned to the dark side, but maybe she had secretly studied Niman prior to her turn to the dark side. Also Obi-Wan may have used Ataru at some times in his duels but it was barely shown because we see him use form 3 a lot more than Ataru because that’s the form his is more focused with.
Exactly
How amazing
I: Let the force be your guide
II: Lethal precision
III: Ultimate defense, wait for your opponent to make a mistake and then strike
IV: Gotta go fast
V: Overwhelm your opponent with aggressive strikes and counterattacks
VI: Learn the basics and be mediocre, or truly master it and become one of the dealiest duelists of all time
VII: Either let the darkness take over for power (Juyo) or control your inner darkness to serve the light (Vaapaad)
Number 5 for me thankyou
I feel like I’m watching an ESPN episode starwars style and it’s AMAZING everything was so well articulated I shall add this to my training🙏🏽
starwars is a escape for me. and i’m 24. these videos are a blessing man.
This was a excellent video! I love the lore and you guys add takes to it.
1:39:04 thanks for clearing this up I always have a hard time pinning down exactly how strong and how good anakin is when comparing him to old masters yoda and even windu in the end a fight is about more than just power but IQ and strategy and just being able to keep your wits about you
I have been waiting for this video for months. Thank you. I love you.
Simply amazing video, you should do more like these about different topics
So my interpretation of what Lus-ma might be, a seemingly aggressive form akin to Juyo, but with faints that consist of super precise jabs and slashes akin to makashi.. so you throw a faint that looks like it's gonna be a really powerful blow from the upper right, but then shift to a precise jab from upper left.
Never knew about all the nuances in the forms before. Thanks for that guys. Personally, I wouldn't use them. With the force as an ally, I'd construct multiple sabers to use at range, or as shields. Totally using trikata if I have to. Guide one saber around behind or to the side, ignite it to distract, then three more come in from different angles. Even above or below. For sure going to use the area around me too. Surprise rocks, twigs, clip boards or small objects. Annoyances to wear down the stamina and confuse. While comfortable in cortosis armor.
That incredibly unique 😮
I'd love to see such a style in action
@@DarienJDees Thank you. I never understood why force users never used the force more inventively. Say you have a ship, maybe one that is trying to take off and leave with a certain Count in it. Why not reach out and pluck a few of the vital wires to the engine, or hyper drive? Cripple the ship and then clean up after.
@@GenlennialEntertainment that's so insidious...but genius 😅
The only jedi that I think might think of something even remotely that subtle is Shak Ti
@@DarienJDees Right?! Oh no, not the big bad droid army. Whatever will we do? Use the force to short out their remote control, cpus, or communications. Watch them start flopping, gaining free will, or running around like the runner that freaked out Obi Wan and Anakin. The force has so many untapped uses that it boggles the mind. None of the force users we focus on ever think outside the box enough to make use of it. Even grand masters. The only time I think I've seen the subtle use was with Quigon. The trick he pulled on Watto to get a chance at taking Anakin.
It isn’t that easy to tap into that level of the force in an instant except for those with the highest midichlorians. Yoda, Vader, Palpatine sure everyone else no, not like that. I mean we have now seen Vader do it in the Obi Wan series.
Super insightful all the details and how thorough this was. Really enjoyed this thank you!
Done
Hell yeah when you n Geetsly make hr+ long videos i get soooooo pumped up. Lol thank you so much Stu!
Ty very much I asked for something like this awhile back and enjoyed it very much
LOVED THIS VID SM, As a SW TH-camr, this inspired me so much not even kidding. Please make a tier list on the strongest force wielders, i would LOVE That
As you wish my Master Hayden Christensen anakin Skywalker sir general 4
And may the force be with you always Hayden Christensen always
Your absolutely welcome
These long videos are really great
"Vader cannot lift his arms above shoulder level" *vader lifting palpatine above his head and tossing him like a flightless bird*
See what happened was he took it as a challenge and if there is one thing you don't do is challenge Vader...with exceptions of course
I love these long videos.
Me to
that was quite an interesting discussion to be sure. lots of information for me to examine.
One of the best videos on lightsaber forms I've ever seen
Dude was the reference of Qui-Gon and Maul and the soft sand from The Diary of Maul? If so that was a B-Side Deep Cut that I am proud to have caught.
Great catch
One fucking massive undertaking...
And I thank you for it.☕
That's a good idea stay-at-home and a nice warm cuppa coffee to stay warm
My favorite forms would be: Djem So, Juyo, Vaapad and Trakata. I know a lot of people see it as cheap shot but when used effectively: absolutely lethal. I'll always vouch for it.
Personally, I think my lightsaber form would be form V Shien and Djem So. A form prepared for any threat I've always had the belief that "the best defence is a good offense" Seeing as I'm 6"3 and I fight with physical strength and with a counter attacking philosophy. It would just compliment me perfectly.
Thank you for such an in depth and thorough video, I don't think I've come across such an in depth video about lightsaber combat anywhere. Keep up the good work!
Surely I'm not the only one who found it hilarious to describe Obi-Wan's use of Mou Kei on Anakin as "cutting corners", right? 😂
me at 2am see this was posted: "well I didn't have anything important to do tomorrow anyway" (I do)
Excellent video, great discussion of the forms and how they are related to the philosophy and history of the Jedi and Sith orders. The only point of curiosity I don’t see addressed here is any combat styles / forms for lightsaber pikes, which would be interesting to know about. I don’t know if there were any definitive ones in the lore (legends or canonical).
Before i even watch this video, let me remind people that niman is the primary form used by darth sidious, maul, revan, krayt, exar kun and kao cen darach. Maul won against qui-gon using niman, not juyo. Same with sidious versus maul/savage, though i think sidious is prone to bouncing between niman and juyo.
Lastly, nowhere is it stated that niman is weak in any department, including dueling and battlefields. By its very nature, niman is average at everything.
It’s the jack of all trades form and it’s my fave
Absolutely and I'm working on it right now
Amazing video. If i were a jedi, i would strive to master both makashi and sorisu, both emphasize energy conservation and tight precise moves, but makashi is focused on precise killing blows and sorisu is focused on a perfect wall of defense. Mastering both would be a potent mix
Am I the only one who would be very interested in seeing a mixture of form V and VI? I feel like being able to mix in force abilities with your counters would create a powerful level of battlefield control. Using Niman’s reactive tendencies to allow your body momentary respite from the physical demands of Djem So could allow you to persist through a potentially longer fight. Another point to it when dealing with blaster fire, I could see a master of both forms using the openings between blaster bolts to force pull or bind their opponents within range; closing the distance in a moment
This is one of THEE greatest videos ever created!!!
Always love hearing from the archivist!
Don’t be embarrassed bro, this is badass.And so are you. I love your videos👍
This video is a ton of fun. This level of detail in world building really brings the story to life.
Absolutely
Exactly
You guys the best. I watch everyday!
Welp guess I’ve got something to watch working from home tomorrow 😁
They're forbidden moves for a reason, Obi wan had to deal with the consequences until he died
1:43:27 Ik I’m commenting a lot but I just love this video (taking me days to finish) but yea anakin was THE goat in this form if you take a closer look at mustafar you can clearly see at the end anakin is standing tall vs obi wan is definitely winded and obi wan is profiling maneuvers that he’s never done before in this duel which can also be a factor
thanks for the work could you add timestamps for each form ?
It will never happen. That forces the viewers to watch the whole video, that makes the algorithem happy.
Love this in depth analysis!
Me to
Maybe
My personal choice in forms:
1) niman
2) makashi + shien
Saving this one later for cleaning day 😂
FYI Agen Kolar uses Ataru, not Form V. In fact he was said to either be Yoda's equal if not superior in that form
Great work.
Pretty good list! Watched to 52:14.After THE lightsaber form😁I like Makashi,Soresu,Ataru,Djem-So.Mix of everything id perfect.May the Force be with you always😁
Yes master general sir Skywalker anakin Hayden Christensen himself
May the force be with you always
Trakata is the only common sense form. Why would you not use the ability to turn your blade on and off?
same reason as any other culture that values a sense of honor. they see it as a bad thing to do. it is also dangerous and might not be worth the risk unless you are 100% confident that it will work.
kenobi's big strikes are basically the equivalent of war crimes
Kao Cen Darach was a practicioner of Niman, he was able to hold of Darth Malgus and Darth Vindican long enough for Satele Shan and some republic troopers to escape and warn the Republic and Jedi of the Sith's return
Done
So Niman comes in 2 flavors jedi-"Diplomats form" used by jedi who want a form that doesnt need constant practice so u can focus on other pursuits (like johan othone) but also "battle master" that allows them to use one or two blades to cycle thru 6 forms and add unpredicable personalized forms like Exar Kun Darth Revan Pong krell Cal kestis Starkiller II Darth Krayt , but I think if u were doing multiple forms , I like form III soresu, form V shien/djem so , form 6 niman , form 7 Juyo/Vapaad , a mix of those forms would be monsterous
That's very amazing idea actually
This 3rhs will be a delight
Exactly
Absolutely
As far as Vader vs Yoda, Yoda jumping over Vader's head would make it extremely hard for Vader with his mobility issues. Even if you go with the sources that say it was just difficult or painful, that would slow him down or momentarily distract him and against Yoda who is so speed based that would be a death sentence. I think Yoda has this one in the bag.
Love these long videos for my Tuesday morning solo shifts.
Your absolutely welcome alright then
One of the guys doing this video was 6 ft. 7 in.?" You know there is a bassist who plays for the German metal band Rammstein, Oliver Riedel, who is also 6' 7". My three chosen lightsaber forms would be Juyo (because I'm a Sith Lord), Soresu (for defensive purposes in lightsaber dueling and for better defense against blaster fire) and Makashi (basic lightsaber 2 lightsaber knowledge [I love Christopher Lee]).
I have always wondered, does the word 'form' mean style? No one seems to say what a 'form' really is. I listen to descriptions, pros/cons, and opinions...but I never actually hear what a form is in Star Wars. I mean at the end of the day a lightsaber is a fancy sword. And a sword only has 10 basic moves: 4 cardinal movements, 4 diagonal movements, thrust, and draw. That's it. Everything else is a version of, or a stylist approach to the 10 basic movements. So is that why they are talking about?
YESS Finally an unreasonably long lore video on lightsaber combat
Loved it!!
Me to
Exactly spot on then how amazing idea you have given to me also
I would use form 2 makashi and form 3 soresu. One for lightsaber combat and one for blaster deflection.
That's what I'm thinking
Guess what I know what I’m doing for the next 3 hours
When talking about anakin using Ataru as a padawan it’s implied that maybe not explicitly as other novels that anakin initially studied and used ataru as his main form with shien complementing Atarus weaknesses and it’s not until the last 3rd or 5th of anakin time as a padawan that anakin makes shien his primary form of combat
So the jedi that got in the way during a battle with bane on Tython was Johun Othone, just in case anyone wanted to know as the video didn't clarify. The only other thing I think was intentionally implied by the bane books but not directly stated or mentioned by anyone, bane not only focused study on form 3 due to losing his armour but because of how he gained it. When the orbalisks attacked bane the wording in the audiobook is "The colony of crustaceans broke free on mass and cascaded down on him in a chitinous swarm" "it was like trying to ward off raindrops in a storm" He literally took that experience and learned how to block raindrops as redemption for falling victim to the orbalisks. Definitely one of my favourite features of bane, everything bad that happens to him, he learns to beat in the future. Bane only 'lost' to Zannah because of her force abilities, bane not only laid her on her back but he disarmed her, if she were any other force user of the time, including her own temporary apprentice (Set Harth) she'd have died.
JOHUN OTHONE! THAT was it!! Thank you, that was killing me! Also I love that take on why Bane decided to learn Soresu, I haven’t seen that perspective before.
Thanks man, I think it's accurate. It's just the phrasing that hints at it but it's the repeat of the word choice that made me sure of it. I love the bane series, if I could ever study under a master it would definitely be bane.
@@Delta68494 agreed. Bane is for sure in my top 3 favorite Sith. The Bane Trilogy was my first step into the Legends universe and it got me hooked right away.
I completely get why. It almost killed the movies and series shows for me. I hope some day they make maybe a 3 season series for bane to cover each book.
Oh could I ask you about Set real quick? What do you think of him and his character? I wish there was more about him especially after he escapes the stone prison with Darth Andeddu holocron
beautiful video and very comprehensive, I have spent hours and hours reading on lightsaber combat and all its variants and you've touched on things I have never seen before and I thank you for that. you have missed one or 2 things though, especially on the subject of Juyo. it is an old form and a Sith form yes, but you missed certain things. when you were looking for ancient sith that used it during the old republic, you missed that it was a common form amongst the sith at the time of Darth Malgus and he was the exception because he used Form 5 Djem So instead of Juyo. also for Juyo, I have read on more than occassion and seen in another video on Lightsaber forms that it require knowledge and experience in other forms to build from much in the same way Nimen did.
How amazing is that idea
Oh snap
guna have to set aside some time for this one
Day 438 of asking for a part 3 of what if anakin was trained by qui gon
How's that working out for you?
@@carlousmagus5387 One who follows the Will of the Force is one who lives a full life. I know for I am one with the Force and the Force is with me. May the Force be with You....always
yall should do a debate with evannova95 and Jensari 1 that would be an amazing crossover debate
Good shit my man keep this up ya holocrons r reaching us in the outer rim (da hood)
You were talking about the book in a video I watched the other day....ther Journals of Darth Maul or soome such thing. Good stuff. I remember back in the oughts (about 2008 or so) my friends and I had worked out, in detail, all the forms and how they could be applied in nhot only the d20 RPg but the White Wolf RPG rules. The White Wolf RPG rules must be the most adaptable and easy to understand rulesets out there...applying them to strar wars was so simple.
Exactly
May the force be with you always master Hayden Christensen
Have a nice break
Legends Luke was the greatest duelist? Corran Horn gave him a schoolyard bully beatdown having almost no lightsaber training.
Good idea master brother Luke Skywalker has full on destiny of becoming a jedi master now himself
FORM V and VII are the best. As Tulak Horde, Darth Malgus, Anakin Skywalker/Vader, Darth Bane, Mace, Revan, Luke Skywalker, Darth Sidious. Where all masters of those forms and used them all the time. When the best duelists of all time directly specialize in your form, then it's the best.
Very cool idea
Funny Im listening to this on Tolkien Reading Day lol! I did listen to some good Tolkien content with my middle school reading classes today, and read some of The Book of Lost Tales in one of them... so, I guess I'm good!
Glad to hear that
Form 3 Soresu for defense, form 2 makashi foot work and form 5 Djem So sequences.
There should of been some many light whip formulas, electrostaff formations, blaster formats, as well as thermal destinator formers too yeah.
Good idea actually try that idea
Great idea
Revan’s best combat feat happens in Shadow of Revan, where he fights a strike team composed of the galaxy’s most powerful champions. The Outlander, who had defeated Vitiate previously, was pretty much fodderized by Revan in this expansion.
Revan’s best ambiental feat is summoning multiple meteors. I remember that the calc for this feat yielded around 60 teratons, which would be enough to destroy a country.
So to put this in perspective. Revan would curb stomp any and all "Lucas/Disney" era Jedi or Sith. Even Sidious, cause Vitiate is actually a bit more powerful than Sidious' and The Outlande, who beat Vitiate, got fucking ROCKED by Revan.... So Revan would fucking Rock the shit outta Sidious. And thus he'd rock anyone. Even MarReySue Skywalker......
THREE AND A HALF HOURS ON *JUST* THE LIGHTSABER FORMS??? 😂😂😂😂
NORMALLY I'M ALL FOR EXTRA-LONG FORM STARWARS, CONTENT, BUT YES, THAT IS EMBARRASSINGLY LONG. BUT THANK YOU SO, SO, SO, ***SO*** MUCH FOR THIS VIDEO.
On the question of what form each of us would use: I think due to my lack of mobility as Crippled Fatass McCrippleson, personally I'd go for defense with Soresu, but try to mix in a lot of force pushes in order to maximize defense without having to move my legs much. And maybe try using rapid-firing blasters before the enemy gets in close-enough range to actually engage me in melee combat, so that even if I don't actually hit them with said blaster, I'm at least making them waste a little bit of stamina dodging or blocking said blaster-fire. When you're disabled, you gotta use whatever tricks you can, lol.
I think ataru is simply the natural evolution of the preceding forms. The preceding forms are responses to larger changes to combat the addition of blasters etc. Ataru occurs at the time when technology and skill sets level off and they begin adding the force more directly. Plus it looks cool...
Totally using this video to pick a form
I’d use a hybrid of Makashi and Soresu. They emphasise efficient movement to preserve stamina which would help a great deal in longer duels but they cover each others weaknesses. Makashi’s precision and offensive capabilities would help after the opponent has made a mistake or completely tired out whilst Soresu is effective against blaster fire and multiple opponents on top of being a two handed form that generates kinetic energy. All of this would help which would cover Makashi’s weaknesses.
As for tràkata, I would use it as an absolute last resort but it definitely shouldn’t be used often as you’d basically be begging to become one with the force.
Thanks for the great video guys. Always love learning more about the lightsaber forms
Excellent choices 👌🏾
I think I'd use a similar approach except I'd use Makashi with a two-handed grip for more leverage and easier transitions along with force integration from Niman.
...well either that or a Soresu-Djem So-Niman combo. But my Djem So would have to be based more on technique than power cuz I'm on the small side.
How very strange is that when you find out what's going to happen sooner than usual
Exactly
Exactly that suggestions for both of us then
May the force be with you always Hayden Christensen always general master sir
Anakin definitely felt Obi wan weakening on mustafar. He even tells him “this is the end for you my master”. I think the only one aside from maybe sidious that could have beaten Anakin after he turned to the dark side was Obi wan but only because, like you said, he was the only one who really knew Anakins major weaknesses. I wonder if Obi wan would’ve resorted to getting padme involved if she was present bc that also would’ve been a possible Achilles heel for Anakin.
Best video ever!
Can y'all do a revamp of Did Mace Windu really defeat Palpatine or did Palpatine let Mace Windu for Anakin to come?
1:19:00
Look for that discussion to come out here pretty soon!
@Archivist_of_Stupendous_Wave thanks man
After many many years since the first time like 8 years ago y'all finally give out opinions on it
Bringing it back full circle
Good idea 😊
Along with Form 5,4,3. Form 6 would have been the next best thing for Anakin instead of Form 7.
This theory might be a little out there but I feel like it might hold some water.
After order 66 it seemed like the Jedi you know like the good guys, they became stronger and my theory is since there was less Jedi in the Galaxy the force can only act through so many people at once with such levels of strength. So maybe the force got like distilled down to maybe like a stronger version of itself because it wasn't spread out so much to so many other people.
I'm not saying that back in the day a whole bunch of Jedi couldn't use a bunch of force abilities that were super powerful I'm saying that it became easier for lesser Jedi to use more powerful abilities because the force didn't have so many to work through. Idk that's just a theory I was having last night.
I'm just trying to add rhyme to reason why Ezra Bridger and Luke Skywalker and I don't know Kyle katarn they all became just extremely powerful even though they didn't train as younglings... Okay Luke probably could have trained to be a Jedi at the age of 50 and still would have been a badass though I'm just saying don't don't come aboard me because I said Luke Skywalker.
Sry, I was ... Tore up when I wrote this one... 😂