J.L. Schellenberg - Is Death Final?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- Death is the ultimate defeat. No matter how many successes we have, we are all doomed to suffer the final failure. But some claim that death is not final. How can they do so? Science allows no continuity after the death of the body and the dissolution of the brain. Is the only hope revealed through religion, which we must accept by faith?
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J.L. Schellenberg is a Canadian philosopher known both for his atheism and for his defense of a broader skepticism compatible with atheism -- a form of skepticism which, as it happens, opens a path to a new evolutionary brand of religion.
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best all around series on all of youtube.. so many interesting perspectives.
"So when we come to the question of what happens after death, how you will see this and understand this is dependent greatly on what you think you are and what you identify with. If you think you are only a body, well, death is it. It is over. You are like a cup of water that is sent back into the ocean. Your molecules just become part of the molecules of the universe to become something else--a tree or a rock or part of another creature... throughout time. You were just part of the material of the physical universe. If you identify with your mind and your thoughts, then you will try to create a Heaven where your intellect can survive and be relevant. Let's see. People have thought up all kinds of heavenly states, but none of them seems to be very attractive. You cannot sit around praising God all day long... If you live a life of total ease and beauty, it becomes exceedingly boring for the intellect. All these notions of Heaven where you still have a mind and your body become, after a time, rather hellish. For what is Hell but a beautiful place where you can never be happy?
When you die, you lose your physical vehicle. It has served its purpose, or it was prematurely destroyed..... But you still have a mind--for awhile. But it is a different kind of state of mind, you see, because without the body, the mind is not functioning in the same capacity. So much of your mind is taken up with managing the body.... When you do not have a body, a large part of the intellect goes with it..... But you are still there.
Once you realize you have a life beyond your mind and your body, you will begin to experience that you are in the world for a purpose, and this purpose holds the greatest meaning for your existence, and also the reason why you are searching for relationships. It represents clearly, the deeper motivations that are behind all the things that you seek and do in your life.
This life is an opportunity for you to experience and express that purpose, and this purpose is not something that you create, but that you must create a life that will allow this purpose to emerge within your awareness....
You have come from death to here. Death is both the beginning and an ending, but it is only a stage of your great existence and your great service to life. Think of these things. Contemplate them. But realize that your intellect cannot fully understand this, for the intellect cannot really understand the Spirit. It can only serve the Spirit, and that is its great purpose and its great duty.
But do know that your life is greater than this one existence, and that who you are is beyond the mind and the intellect and the body. And you open a door then to a greater experience and a greater certainty and a greater power that are yours to receive and to contribute to the world around you." (What Happens After Death? Marshall Vian Summers, New Message org)
Pro-Found! Thank you!
thank you, Janice
And what would be an example of such a purpose?
Sounds like wishful thinking, superstition, religion... or any other example of pure speculation.
@fartpooboxohyeah8611 If you are implying that science relies on pure speculation, then you don't understand how science works. Any speculation that a scientist might engage in would be in considering various hypotheses that are then tested by experimentation, and repeated by other scientists. Only after a hypothesis has been repeatedly tested and confirmed to be reliable does it become a theory. Religion, on the other hand, assumes that the only "explanation" for an as yet unexplained phenomenon is "God did it," and demands that its "explanation" be unquestionable. While science relies on consistent verifiability, religion relies on authority.
Or perhaps you are just expressing your fartpooboxiness as just another internet troll.
Afterlife is probally something that has nothing to do with conscious thought, something so exotic our minds can not comprehend it, if there is one at all
those who experience clinical death describe the "next life" as nothing comparable to this existence.
in fact those who return from clinical death and "see" the "other side" often say it is virtually impossible to put into words what it is like "over there"..whatever "over there" is. i prefer to think of life after death as merely an altered state of consciousness, independent of brain.
I think you are correct. I have watched hundreds of NDE videos and there is the same theme in 99%. It is a realm that is hyper real as described by those that have died. They say it is a sense of love that always seems to make them choke up crying. They can't describe it, the love is like the material that it is all made of. Also the brightest white light that they have ever seen but it doesn't hurt their eyes? Probably because they dont have eyes lol.
@@marccas10 good point about the eyes. 'sight' after death would not be the same as 'biological sight' during physical existence. there are too many comparisons to this biological existence and the next, which would not consist of a biological system. i think the next life would be consciousness in the non-local sense, as in our mind and consciousness becomes free from restraints of the brain. something like that.
Why is there so little talk about life before conception? It is just as plausible as life after death.
It's the same talk.
Many religions deal explicitly with this concept. It is not that there is so little talk of it, but rather that you need to read more widely.
If the universe is infinite, then there is only one conclusion (for me) that our consciousness (of existence) must be infinite (eternal) as well.
I think this was the wrong guy to ask about this.
Love people like this who have an open minded pragmatic approach
“Life after death” ? Until we know otherwise, we have to conclude it as “death after life”.
Semantics.
@@philosopher0076 irony.
cringe
I think logically, if we die then we experience emptiness / unconsciousness, when a random infinite universe accidentally creates us physical body form that coincides with our current state now, then we will rise again and regain consciousness, and we unconsciousness will feel consciousness again in an instant moment. , because the unconsciousness never knows or never realizes how much time has passed, even though our unconsciousness lasts for a very long time, for example millions of years or billions of years, maybe even trillions ... years of unconsciousness will only be felt as a moment instant again.
Follow Jesus Christ
For God so love the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life
STOP PLEASE. No life at all,after death. It's time to be aware of it
Given the remarkable complexity of the universe, it would be difficult to accept the idea that life and death are exactly what we think they are. Thiest, gnostic or athiest should all agree on this.
I agree with you 100%
The main problem with the possibility of there being a personal afterlife is the observed physical correlates of consciousness.
Consciousness and other cognitive functions such as memory and reasoning etc are variously altered, suspended, disrupted, etc, in direct correspondence with the physical brain and what brain processes are or are not occurring.
You give someone a local anesthetic and you can operate on them and they feel no pain; give them a general anaesthetic and they cease to be conscious altogether.
We see people suffering from degenerative neurological disease such as Alzheimers gradually lose their memories and even forget who their spouse and children and grandchildren and ultimately themselves, and we see personality changes and similar radical alterations in consciousness and personality in people with traumatic brain injury etc.
Realistically, if consciousness didn't require particular brain processes, lapses in consciousness shouldn't ever occur, but they do.
That makes it very hard to believe that when you die and all brain activity ceases that we could somehow continue to have consciousness, or on the case of people with advanced Alzheimers, after years of gradual loss of their mind and cognitive functioning, upon death, would suddenly have all of their memories and faculties restored.
@@b.g.5869 Yes, but you are talking about things we can at least observe. My statement was to imply that what we are goes beyond the idea of what we experience. I do not make this as a claim, I simply posit the "idea" that our minds are only a small fraction of a greater whole.
@@b.g.5869 Your statements about the brain and consciousness are very interesting. I don't deny that anything could be possible, especially regarding a "life after death" because I don't understand what "death" actually is. Of course the brain activity ceases to function but metaphysically I am inclined to consider the possibility that "some kind of life" does indeed exist after death. I guess that's just my worldview ( and as such my worldview is influenced by the words and teaching of Jesus the Christ.)
I appreciate your sharing By the way, my mom had Alzheimers. It was really sad to see how my mom changed the last few years of her life.
@-GinPi Gamma Wrong.
Depends on "who you are", it depends on as what you recognized yourself!
If you (your soul) die before you die, you won't die when you die!
Life never died, it is organizing, transforming, realizing itself,
through steady doom and deaths!
So who you are?
Tolstoi said: God is in everyone, but not everyone knows that.
You can stay a footstep or you can go with the Life! 👟👟
LOL
Surely consciousness requires energy. Certainly in the form generated in the brain. So if consciousness exists after physical death where does it get it's energy from?
"If this awareness was there all the time in your life, death will be just a change of clothes" Sadhguru
Absolutely appreciate the questions! Solid Salute from Sydney Australia. God Is Real 👑🇺🇸☝🏼🌉🇦🇺💫🕊️
You do not have a soul. You are a soul, you have a body. CS Lewis.
I love J.L 's ideas.
He is good
"Precisely because of how great that influence is I'm also inclined to wonder whether there might be something that we're missing." I like that statement but I think other parts of life ( such as philosophy) also have a great influence regarding our views of an afterlife.
Yes I also think the way you perceive things such as ethics, morals, evil, suffering, justice, injustice influence whether you believe there should be afterlife or not. For some no afterlife means all ethics and morals here are meaningless social norms whilst others feel theres no need for afterlife and all morals are just biological priming for survival.
@@Yameen200 Thanks !
I would think that anything material/physical will not withstand, including the universe from what I hear, and returns to its most basic form eventually. So if there is an eternity it would seem to need to be in something other than material/physical or perhaps at at the other end, something similar to consciousness in some way. Unless there are properties the science community and others are unaware of based in reality that make sense.
These are my favorite inquiries of CTT
It's as finale as it was before life on earth came to be. And yet you're here now.
Human consciousness is physical in that upon one's death it gets absorbed into the dark energy that surrounds earth and the universe at large. At a certain point in time, any single energy entity of one's consciousness may be revived, not necessarily within another human body, but in other living forms, that run the gamut from animals and birds to trees and multi-dimensional spirits. All these are so very strange but so very compellingly true.
quantum entanglement.
So will I transition from this hell that is temporal to another hell that is eternal? Is that what I have to look forward to?
Hmm, I guess God only knows. (Or to be grammatically correct about it, only God knows.)
Yep, I certainly could have done without my existence alright.
have you ever thought to work as a life motivator ?
@@francesco5581 hahaaha. Actually I'm very good at not wearing my existential dread and despair on my sleeve. Arguably it's only inside of a youtube comments section that you would find me insufferable.
@@somethingyousaid5059 I'm right there with you my friend. The "life motivator" comment was hilarious. If there was a God, the first question I'd ask is, "What were you thinking when you put me there? Were you high?", or something to that effect. Having said that, I know that there isn't a God who sent me here because I would have insisted on a "safe word", and I would have used it in the first moments of childhood consciousness.
@@somethingyousaid5059 i am happy for you then :)
@@somethingyousaid5059 Nah that is just rolling in grief and nihilism with great satisfaction ... Btw i think we have found 2 great motivators for your new generations.
Hard problem, hard put in perspective, it’s looking like existence is just unfair
The key to the solution is understanding the genesis of consciousness; if, in fact, consciousness is not simply an emergent property of a physical system. Furthermore, I cannot help but wonder why, at age 66, I continue to have this indefatigable desire to improve upon a vitiated, incomplete state. If death is final - if nothing but an eternity of blackness and non-awareness awaits me - from whence comes the need to continue to learn and improve; to be a better father, husband, grandfather, and eye doctor? If consciousness is fundamental, then perhaps at some level a "sense of being" will persist. But I find it hard to believe (as much as I'd like to) that my sense of self will survive. Then again, a sense of being is not necessarily a sense of self. If consciousness is fundamental, of what is it conscious?
I like your observations and I pretty much agree with you. What do you mean by "a sense of being is not necessarily a sense of self"? John in Florida
@@johnbrzykcy3076 To be conscious does not necessarily require a sense of self; consciousness need not be personalized. It's a state of being "aware" without having to be "self-aware." A sense of self is consciousness personified; it's an autobiographical agent and illusional persona made necessary to explain my conscious awareness as experienced "within" my material frame. But it seems reasonable to me that there could exist a form of consciousness - where there exists a state of awareness - without having to involve the personal, self-aware element.
@@DrFuzzyFace Thanks for the clarification on consciousness.
@@johnbrzykcy3076 Be well, John.
consciousness is total property of a physical system,100%
I’ve watched several of these videos and I can summarize in 3 words - I don’t know
The purpose of these videos are not to give any firm answer. The purpose is to be THOUGHT provoking. For you to form your own set of ideas based on different opinions of thought.
It can be and will be for many people. But God will resurrect many others back to life as well.
Everything goes just like before you were born . Know nothing see nothing feel nothing.
This is a reply to Kestyjoe. Sorry if that's misspelled. I would refer you to a book of meditative readings called Steps to Knowledge by Marshall Vian Summers to answer your question on purpose.
One step that I think is clarifying is a review step #105. Thank you.
consciousness may migrate to another universe after you died on "our" universe....so maybe there's no need of an afterlife because you will eventually find yourself (or your own consciousness) in a universe where revolutionary anti-aging technology was developed to allow you unlimited life extension
Death is the end. Unless we can somehow rewind time I don't see how we could comeback from that.
Remember that we are just a creation of atoms and also every life forms. so death isn't the end, tho.
I bealive that our brain is a mini universe that becomes one with the universe after our earthly life....
Hinduism says atma (you) and per atma (universe)
My spirit guru told me I’d live forever so long as I keep paying £500 per session.
Yes, once people believed, that they can buy a place in heaven. 🤦♂️
@@neffetSnnamremmiZ some people might prefer a place in hell because they like hot party’s with fire, bbq’s, and Hawaiian shirts. 😂
There is no reason at all to think that everyone has an afterlife (if anyone has one). Some might have one, and others not -- on earth some have good lives and some do not.
I am a 100% believer in our limited knowledge via the process of science. I have a Bachelor's in science and learned a lot. Not much, but it's enough for me to appreciate human achievements. But science is just that, a process. It cannot prove or disprove how and why we exist nor whether or not there is life after death. The two are not compatible.
With that said, of course I hope that my consciousness continues on after my body is gone but have to accept the possibility that that will not happen. I wish that the idea of blinking out of existence never crossed my mind and I had 100% faith in a glorious afterlife. Sometimes being open-minded is not a good thing. Being atheist/agnostic is not a good thing, in my opinion.
"It's our ego and an unwillingness to let go of loved ones that demanded we create the concept of an afterlife." ~ The Verbally Abusive Clown
Thanks for setting us all straight, Verbally Abusive Clown.
It's fear and insecurity which make us believe that we re not living totally alone in a hallucination. But there is nothing wrong with believing in staffs.
@@joshheter1517 Glad I could help.
I think consciousness is us realizing we are us. Just like dogs and cats know they are them. The energy that allows the body to create this consciousness is what would survive after death...not consciousness itself
Death is only limited to body. The mind leaves the body and attaches to other body when time is right
What is your evidence for this claim?
@@b.g.5869 Read Jurgen Ziewe, Swedenborg, Peter Fenwick, Raymond Moody, Robert Monroe, Sam Parnia - they will all point you in the right direction.
@@JaneDoe-zk4uk I'm familiar with all of those people and they just promote unpersuasive and refuted arguments about NDEs
NDEs are not compelling evidence for an afterlife.
I see the beginning of another reply from you to me in my notifications that begins with saying how nothingness doesn't exist, but I guess you deleted it or something because when I click on it, it doesn't show the post.
I couldn't read the rest but your opening assumption, that I think Nothing is a a thing, is incorrect.
I do not hold that position and have actually talked a lot about this in other CTT threads.
True nothingness is that which does not and cannot exist.
But that doesn't mean death is the permanent cessation of our personal awareness. It just means that if consciousness requires particular processes of the living brain, then it ends when we die.
No actual nothingness is actually a part of this picture except in a metaphorical sense.j
@@b.g.5869 I think nde’s promote a very persuasive argument that consciousness is non local and they bring back verification. The great news is you have it in your power to experience obe’s for yourself. Once you know what the actual experience is like then you can discern for yourself instead of taking (or not taking) other people’s word for it. If consciousness is non local then perhaps we are looking at the consciousness thing the wrong way round. After all the only thing we have ever experienced is consciousness - subjective consciousness. Or, at least I’ve never stepped out of it to see what is beyond it, have you? All my experiences and perceptions come from consciousness, I don’t view the sea outside of my consciousness but within it. It’s an Occam’s razor thing, go with the most obvious as your starting point. It is just as viable to accept non locality as it is the assumption that consciousness is created in the brain without any evidence. Both views are actually bonkers and irrational depending where you stand but only one of them is socially accepted and which happens to be built on blind faith and assumption but renamed as rational. Since our lives are subjective it’s also bonkers that we ignore that fact and insist on measuring objective only. Hence the cynicism regarding nde’s. Surely the subject and objective are of equal importance? I don’t think ‘nothing’ exists, we can’t even imagine it, and I find it an extraordinary coincidence, in a materialist worldview that I’m alive right here right now. TBH it’s all a bit bonkers.
@@JaneDoe-zk4uk I don't claim that "nothing" exists.
Why do you keep suggesting that I do?
I don't
There is nothing before life so probably nothing after as well. That’s it.
As we have got from death to life once, it is not inconceivable that we get through this process again.
(And he presents for Us an example and forgets his [own] creation.
Say, "He who gave them life in the first place will give them life again; and He is, of all creation, Knowing") - Coran, Yassin, 78-79
There was no pre-party, so probably there’s no after party.
@@joshheter1517 sorry, correction:
(And he presents for Us an example and forgets his [own] creation. He says, "Who will give life to bones while they are disintegrated?"
Say, "He who gave them life in the first place will give them life again; and He is, of all creation, Knowing") - Coran, Yassin, 78-79
It is the (death -> life) -> (death -> life) process. So if have already experienced the first part, is it crazy to believe that we will experience the second part?
@@LoveGhateB
I consider myself a learned man (with at least some credentials to back that up).
But, if I’m being honest... I have no idea what you’re trying to say. Maybe that’s a “me” problem and not a “you” problem, but I’d be surprised.
Best of luck to you.
@@joshheter1517 i didn't say you are not a learned man, and I don't think there is a problem here in me or in you, just a questionning that you are free to think about and eventually reply to.
Abscence of life = death.
So before life we were dead, and after life we will be dead. However, after the first death, there was life, so why not after the second death? Life after the death seems extraordinary, but this already happened!
I think our consciousness is just universal watcher.
why after life for some and not others. i don't understand that point of view if there is even a afterlife.
My thought too, it doesn’t seem to fit right. How can you extinguish consciousness awareness when others survive?
I am an atheist and I think it is very likely that there is no afterlife and I take my life as if this life is the only one, because at least for me it is, we can believe that in an afterlife does not mean that it exists, the The only certainty we have is that this life exists and that it will end, so try to make the most of your precious time on this planet because it will end one day.
I think I understand that Ultimism can legitimise the experience of atheism as just one possible and maybe even meaningful perspective within an ultimate spiritual truth.
Resurrection is that Pure Souls are embodied in my Heavenly Body !
LOL
Yuval Noah Harari said religion and science goes together (btw he is an atheist)
Yes, he is an atheist, but I didn’t interpret his position as “religion and science goes together.
it's easy to be a skeptic--it's hard to believe. I believe I'll err to the side of belief.
You can't choose between belief and skepticism. If you think you can, you're a skeptic.
@@ferdinandkraft857 What do you mean by your statement?
@@johnbrzykcy3076 Hi John. If I showed you a suitcase and told you there's 1 million dollars inside, would you believe it? Could you force yourself to believe?
@@ferdinandkraft857 Would I believe that you have a suitcase with 1 million dollars? Well... that all depends. I really don't know you. If I knew you personally, then possibly I could say to you "Yes I believe you." Or I might say to you, "Nope I don't believe you." There are many variables that would influence my answer to you.
I can't force myself to believe anything, especially about God. That is why I ask questions, and read books ( and not just books about theology, but also books on philosophy, history, and some science ).
Belief is a strange thing. Everyone defines it differently. And then we have "justified belief" where there might be lack of evidence, but belief is still justified.
I'm quite open-minded and I hope God understands my doubts. I even ask myself what is "knowledge" and what kind of knowledge does a person need to have a belief.
So.... I hope I sort of answered your questions. Take care. John in Florida
📣Is there anybody ready to pour some more ideas of reality to take us even more CLOSER TO TRUTH🤔
I can't even figure why we are in the first place. Now, we ask where we are going?
You know your observation is very interesting and I often ask myself "why am I here" etc. So it seems like we can't figure out the answer to either question. But I do have a worldview that an afterlife is possible for creation.
You're here because your parents decided to have some fun without protection
Only one way to find out!
Maybe one day some genius might figure an experiment to find out.
We need to get this right because this life is short. And internity is forever
lol. So I guess whether dolphin and chimpanzee consciousness survives death is also an open question. As well as that of all those hominid ancestors of modern humans. We also have to remain open to the possibility that the Aztec god Huitzilopotchli is a real thing and that we're going to suffer greatly because we stopped sacrificing still beating human hearts to him.
we don’t know...
If Schellenberg is simply saying he _likes_ the idea of ultimism because it would provide an opportunity for everyone to reach their potential I think that's fine, but if he is saying he gives the idea some credence (I know he doesn't claim to actually believe it) because of this, that's not a good reason for thinking the idea has some plausibility. That would be an appeal to consequence fallacy.
It's basically saying "It would be nice if there was an afterlife that allowed everyone to realize their potential! Therefore, it's not altogether implausible!'
Nope.
That is... not what he’s saying.
I think I have an episode for you, “why is existence, so unfair”
Yes life does seem "unfair" to many people. Yet there are people who seemingly have a happy, successful life. Is that what you mean by "unfair"? That many people struggle with pain, suffering, poverty, etc?
@@johnbrzykcy3076 I think, by unfairness they meant the inequality and disparity between people, even at the beginning of their existence. It's partly about the given conditions, as well as later events that might "unfairly" take place in life. But, let's hold in mind, that the image of justice is still an idea, whether based on subjective grounds or collective perceptions. It implies that the world wasn't even meant to be "fair" in the first place and that there is no ideal society, where everyone has high morality.
@@carryon5021 Good morning from Florida. I like your observations and I pretty much agree with you although I hold a worldview that creation of man by a god was indeed "fair" and perfect but something went wrong. That is why I say that "mankind is fallen."
I appreciate your reply and I like the way you express words.
I’ll have to circle back to you later on this topic, I’ll get back to you post life
Consciousness is not final, therefore the notion of death as final is just an illusion. death is actually a transition from waking consciousness to non-local consciousness. hence the near death and out of body experience.
Near death experiences? Anyone? There is so much research about NDEs, that's where you have to dig, don't you think!?
It tells us about the workings of the brain under conditions of reduced oxygen. It doesn't tell us about what happens once all brain activity has ceased. The smart money is on nothingness by the way.
@@JohnHarmer I recommend you to read into the research. ;)
@@JohnHarmer Wrong. Studies prove otherwise. Dr. Pim Von Lommel's peer reviewed multi-year study ( for one ) showed that noxia of the brain has no bearing on near death experiences.
@@philosopher0076 Wishful thinking is the enemy of good scholarship.
There may be, it might be like nothing we know in this life. New form new experiances. We might not be able to comprehend our last biological experience or remember it. Does bacteria have a afterlife. Hmmmm
The other idea is, that life in far future will reach the capability to ressurect the dead, because we all are written in its own structure, and it then can read the "book of life", so you will "sleep" to this day of ressurection. You will then get another body, not just biological. But some structures are not recognizable, some unfortunately have to be discarded, because they not aligned with life, means they were injust to life, so their structure won't be readable. But if you recognize yourself, you will get recognized. In this idea, God will ressurect you, that you can see the result of your work and your sacrifice. At least I would recommend with Newton: Be careful with your hasty judgements or conclusions about the future ability of mind or life!
What do you mean by "it then can read the 'book of life" ? I do like your statement "Be careful with hasty judgements or conclusions about the future ability of mind or life."
@@johnbrzykcy3076 It was a statement by Isaac Newton about this ressurection! And the "Book of life" is a metapher from Bible. Life looks more and more closely into past, because its progress is bound to this deeper knowledge about past. It's already exercising to ressurect extincted animals. Life is organizing, transforming and realizing itself. "God" explained: "I am the life!" "Now I want to stand up!" "I am, what I will be!" "I will come soon!" etc. Max Planck explained: "God" is the point in far far future where science and religion will meet! ✌️
@@neffetSnnamremmiZ Thanks for your reply. Yes I know the "book of Life" is mentioned in the Bible. Regarding the quote by Max Planck, I believe that God and science did "meet" at the very beginning of Creation. So I think God and science are bound to "meet" again.
@@johnbrzykcy3076 Yes, maybe. And both, religion and science, are each specific ways of self alienation, in both the "subject" of knowledge stands (each in a special way) next to itself, for reason of self transformation and realization, or spoken with Nietzsche: for growth! 😉
The title of this should just be called "Wishful Thinking".
Consciousness is everything is the universe is as, in and out the bothy, you exist as thought, in the light you don't even see your self, yo only know you are there, is not way to prove in material life. In this life and the next one stay in the light.
I don't think we understand consciousness well at all. It's very counterintuitive.
For example, the conscious entity that was me 20 years ago, is that real, or is it dead? I certainly can't access him, and the material that made me up back then is long gone. I think the person I was a second ago may be dead, too. Consciousness is the blink of an eye.
If the universe is infinite, it's too improbable that you are conscious now. You would have already died, or already not born.
As Alan Watts says, what if when you die you simply wake up? I seriously believe we need to ask questions like this. We confuse consciousness with people - consciousness is simply experience, of which the comos may have infinite, everlasting abundance.
Our current versions of an afterlife is way too human centric. A god who created all life wouldn't be focused on just us.
At what level of consciousness did we become gods pet project ? Are our extinct cousins included in this as well ? We know they were just as conscious as we are.
So justify our special nature or the argument is impossible to support.
"God" is in everyone, is as close as your carotid artery, so that's the reason, God can be there for everyone, like there is no other one around. For that Life (God) we are something like "living building bricks". ☝️
@@neffetSnnamremmiZ
So we came down from the trees and found your god waiting for us ? 😂😂
I guess we had to stand up. To be able too bow down properly.
@@thomasridley8675 God, the Life is organizing, transforming, realizing itself, human being only transition. God is, spoken with Max Planck, the point in far far future, where science and religion will meet. So I would recommend with Newton: Be careful with your hasty judgements and conclusions about future ability of mind or life! ☝️
@@neffetSnnamremmiZ
So all this, just so 'you' can find the true god and hopefully escape death ?
To live forever in an illusion of life in heaven or hell ?
WHY !!! What is the end game ?
@@neffetSnnamremmiZ he's going to be purposely contrary just to bother you.
We say our lives will go black forever 😐that may be but…what about before you were even born ? 😐what do you remember before you were born ? That’s right nothing but darkness 😑so is death final ? Well for one that all depends of the universe is finite or not 😐if the universe is infinite it means their is no beginning or end 😐and the chances of this planet are truly infentesmal meaning that it could happen again but not for a really really long time 😑also you are only dead in this world 😐after all consciousness was not created form the Big Bang 😑it was created at birth 😐before you were born be this planet before the milkey way your world was all ready in black 😑what was like forever your past life has long Ben forgotten just like before this planet their was no DNA their was no you your world was in darkness 😐what’s the nature of self ? Why are we human ? Well truth is no one is really ever dead death is nothing more but a endless sleep and that’s something we all have all ready expirenced before 😑you will still see the world from first person view you will won’t ever be truly dead 😑death is nothing but being nothing in darkness and when we are born again is only when we will come from the darkness 😑so is death final in someways yea you will be dead forever in this world but that does not mean this planet can’t ever form again after it’s not like you were formed by aliens 😐if the universe is infinite that means that that this planet can happen again but it will happen not for a very very VERY long time 😐and if the universe is finite the odds of this planet are grater and for a finite universe you still need a cause and effect on what created everything to begin with 😐if death was final you would have all ready Ben long dead all ready no galaxies no earth nothing 😑you only understand the universe beacuse your older but when you were a baby you would have no idea 😐you won’t know how to speak you will forget how to walk you will forget how you speak it’s all about animal instinct 😐but when you will be born again or have a consciousness again you will forget how long you were actually dead before you came into this world or even if you had a life before and just like before you will wondering if this is the end ?😓only to be recreated once again not remembering your past or wondering how long your were dead all ready that’s why when you say the universe went to a atom to a grape fruit 14 billion years ? That’s the same about death 😐as your alive you think god created the universe or the universe is only 14 billion years old 😐how wrong you are 😑
Living with social and physical structures built without employing science would be hell. I believe in evolution but I have hours of video evidence that prove life after death
If you find consciousness resides outside the brain at a quantum level where it could be a field then this would make great leaps in AI. What if you could create consciousness at a quantum level for AI? It could show the possibility of an afterlife and when the machines take over.
Ultimism: He believes in the religious belief that there is an ultimate reality called Ultimism ... which includes the idea of afterlife
So - he believes in an afterlife because he believes in an afterlife.
I am the Purifier of Souls !
Re: life after death... Brian Green said you can have the most powerful computer in the world... but once you pull the plug it's dead! Is that our own individual fate????
I know it is the language causing problems but talking about life after death is absolutely absurd because death means end of life. It would be better to speak of existence after death.
Irrelevant semantics.
I sort of agree with you but it all depends on how you define "life" and "existence" and even the word "death." Either way I don't think that "talking about life after death is absolutely absurd" because even Jesus the Christ talked about some kind of "life" or resurrection of creation after death. Unless Jesus was a madman and then of course any kind of afterlife seems absurd, at least in my worldview.
@@johnbrzykcy3076 , definitions are key and as you know there is no solid definition of life which obviously complicates the discussion. To define death as the end of life seems rather clear cut though. And thus I maintain my view that life after death is impossible, per definition.
I love this Chanel because of its straightforwardness of many subject RK presents. But honestly, what kind of stupid question is this? No one will even know if death is the end. Let’s keep it real away from the woo woo.
It's possible that something created us just like we have the technology to create people and animals through DNA but can we promise what we create an after life? Does that make us God's?
But it's not human, it's "God", the Life, that "will come", the same force, that was in the beginning and created us and gave such promises. We are not God, but God is in us. Luther said: "God comes through the backdoor!" ✌️
He is a philosopher not a scientist. Most scientists don't believe in an after life sadly.
You will have the same knowledge after your body dies that you had before you were conceived.
I feel like scientist analytical people are almost incapable of understanding “religion”
because they THINK and test 🤔
I really have no desire to understand "religion" but I do want to understand the various worldviews that people have regarding "god."
It’s not that they don’t, they don’t agree with it 😂
I think the main problem of religion is it's limited world/experience view.
But i think scientific people cannot understand the qualificative aspect of life. It's like science is for understanding shapes and measurements. But it does not really explain beauty, choice of words, love. I truly believe that this universe has a binary reality. For instance anything that you can look up, there always a vice to it. Take a tree, it got roots down and branches up. We have cold and warm colors. Male and female. I could go on forever. From the smallest of things to the biggest. It's almost infinitely filled of little contradictions. The way things grow and die. When you eat you poop, you take a breath and you exhale. Yet there is always a return of anything. Absolutely anything. Now you might say dinosaurs don't exist anymore. What if we were the dinosaurs a long time ago? How come love and survivibility can be shared with many different animals and i would argue even plants. I believe consciousness is singuliar, and it's shared with many different entities. We all copy behaviours from things we've learned, yet we're all wired differently. Religion isn't the key here, but maybe an openess to what is truly the essence of what things are, cause and effect, yes and no, zeroes and ones. Black and white.
You’re overthinking the whole thing. Give something a name and it becomes “real”, is that the way it works.
Searching for meaning. Searching for a theory of everything at the spirit level. Searching for the perfect answer. Maybe there's something after death that isn't life and isn't death either.: meaning in its pure state? TRANSFORMATION is a clue. Can life be meaningful after death is a better approach to the question of the afterlife. Life after death: what for? This is a useful question.
What do you mean by "TRANSFORMATION"?
i have a few good speculations to the purpose of an afterlife
1 The fulfillment of Justice to events in this world making it meaningful
2 The Actualization of all Potential
3 Realization of all Ideals
4 Ability to comprehend wisdom and meanings/connections to this worlds events and next
5 Fulfillment of inner dreams/desires
6 Something beyond what we can concieve
@@Yameen200 I hope you're right and there's some logic in this approach but one could argue that if God exists, why didn't he/she/ it create a better world with better human creatures right from the start. The counter argument is that God wants us to experience life in all its 'glory' and 'goryness' so that we can evolve spiritually... It's a catch 22 argument which leads us to accept that we are facing a bottomless mystery. It remains a profoundly bizzare fact that only humans can evolve spiritually, through transformation ( or in religious language, through 'grace'). But then there are those who are too young or too tired to 'play' that game....what of a child who is diagnosed with leukemia for instance? He or she cannot access a spiritual revelation... Innocence is just as much a mystery as is evil... What will the child find in the after life? A God or a Devil?
@@johnbrzykcy3076 Only humans ( as far as we know) can evolve spiritually through the experience of life: they are given, sole of them, a chance to grow wiser and get spiritually deeper. It's a strange and unique human characteristic.
@@catherinemoore9534 Yes you are right the problem of evil is a total mind boggler especially when we look at individual cases of suffering, animal suffering for instance. Whatever answers to solve this issue fall short be it freewill, soul growth, greater good, appreciation theodicy.
Thats why i feel if theres a god and after;life & moral values and evils are objective not just biological anomalies or cultural behaviours then justice must be fulfilled. I dont see how a god can be good if he doesnt fulfill any of this and threw us into this world filled with pain and then we fade away to nothingness.
You will return in your next life, perhaps in another part of the universe, with the same innocence that you entered this one. You won't remember this life, just as you now don't remember your previous one. And you won't remember your sex (it's irrelevant). In your next life, you will dream just as you dream in this life. But in your next life, will your new culture teach you about dreaming as how your entangled self encounters the experiences of other selves from the perspective of their own mind-bodies? KeyConcepts: nonlocal self, DNA entanglement
What's the point of learning something you'll forget when you die?
@@ferdinandkraft857 The choices you've made - the memories that you've created - shape what you become. You cannot take your memories with you. The nonlocal self that you've become is what matters, and re-emerges elsewhere when you die, to match personality with karma (culture).
Without a resurrection to judgment, (if you believe in God), there is no life after death. Guess what? It's also biblical.
I think the answer is yes
you must be fun at parties
The time to believe implausible claims is after credible evidence has been scrutinized, assessed, and has failed attempts to be disproven. Wishful thinking, hoping, wanting, or even intuition are not reliable pathways to truth. The brain is so easily tricked.
One option is "everything" the other is "nothing" ... Both are without any kind of proof (especially the second since if you are really dead forever you cant say "i was right !!" ) ... So what you gain believing in the "nothingness forever" option ? Do you live your life better knowing that everything you do is TOTALLY meaningless ?
@@Bringadingus No because a meaning is given when you observe something AFTER it's accomplished. Eternal death is just multiply everything by 0 , the result is 0, always. Instead if you life is eternal everything you have done have made what you actually are and had an influence on other living beings. Eternal death is like a 2 billions years human civilization crushed by a meteor ...hard to find a meaning ....
@@francesco5581 False dichotomy coupled with an appeal to consequence, both logical fallacies.
I would agree that nothingness in the sense of a permanent cessation of consciousness is in a sense nothingness, which is not only a possibility but by far the most plausible possibility based on what we know about the neurological correlates of conscious states and brain processes.
But the only other option isn't "everything", which I don't can only assume you mean the acquisition of omniscience or something.
There's lots of other possibilities, though none are plausible.
Choosing everything over nothing because you like it better doesn't make it more possible or likely.
@@Bringadingus The fact about "the journey and not the destination" is one of those sentences who are cool but are actually not logic . You will hit the destination quite soon (like everyone of us) and so is the destination that give the meaning to all the rest . Journey included.
@@b.g.5869 what we know is not strong enough to make such claims that consciousness will disappear after death. there are many things, if u just look at science which turned out to be totally different than what people had theorised before. for instance the fact that the earth moves around the sun. if u lived 3000 years ago it would have been totally reasonable and logical to believe that actually the sun moves around the earth. what I'm saying is, our intuition where u are arguing from, based on facts like that we don't remember before our birth, or that we don't see dead people, is not sufficient to give such answers like 'belief in consciousness after death is not a rational belief'.
No no mind , intellect and ego create another body .( Bhagbat Gita )
Heel interessant.
For those that believe an afterlife means a continuation of individual consciousness where do animals fit into this.
I know without a shadow of doubt that my beloved dog is a conscious and sentient creature and as deserving of eternal life as any human I know, more so than many.
There is a philosophy of religion article i have read in the book _Paradise Understood_ which talks about gods love and justice and argues that animals would be a part of an afterlife as well. Just an FYI if you would like to know how theology views that.
to heck witl the animals.
🕊
I have juste one saying about this spécial subject. We can not live life for the unique reason about your death. If some Will , it is a life who will be wasted. This is very sad. I do some time live my life thing more about death then an otter personnes, this is why and who it conserne. First of all I experiences many Time death. Second I am a theorist and also a philosophe it is my purposes. It is subject who is adresse at professionnel in this feild. Not people are not intelligent I will truly never say this because I not people are intelligent this is why I always walk on eggs about crazy subject. Now I am at fourth I guess, certains subject is possible to get quitte lost it happen to me yonger it bring me to phsychaitric hospital more then one. This is the only reason, it is the same with some book are some ecriture examle William Blake, is one of my spécial author too me but even now I have to be in a special situation to read about. Philippe Martin
We are sparks placed here for a brief moment to accumulate light and warmth (love) so that we can become as bright of a star as we can be...shining in heaven (joy, beauty and harmony).
Love (god) knows every star by name.
We accumulate light and warmth (love) by appreciating this paradise planet lifeboat and the miraculous works of fine art called life that inhabit it.
If we extinguish our light and warmth (love) with ignorance (greed)...we become the darkness and emptiness that surrounds the stars.
Both here on this physical plane called Earth like it is on the metaphysical plane we call heaven.
Currently, the evangelical vampires (greed) are hiding behind the robe of truth (love) to worship ignorance (hate).
The truth said with the wrong intent is worse than all that lies invent.
The evangelical counting corpses have foolishly convinced themselves that Jesus (love) has "saved" them from ignorance, greed and hate. But they are sadly mistaken.
They are like the darkness and emptiness that surrounds the stars. And that is what they will become after they drop the clothing of this physical plane.
Some souls go to hell and and in my time the Satanic Souls will end never reincarnated and no cycles of life !The last Judgment !
Hell is a fiction. Wake up to logic and reason. No all loving God would even create such a place, let alone allow his own children to be sent there whether by their own sinful ways or by God's deciding on it. No
@@philosopher0076 That's the most sense I have heard in a long time. Completely agree.
Perfect ..they nailed the "need for an afterlife" perfectly .
@-GinPi Gamma I agree. If there really were no afterlife then this wouldn’t be a discussion. If people didn’t have nde’s, nobody would be talking about it, people wouldn’t have mystical experiences, dreams etc. No smoke without fire.
@@HoneybunMegapack it’s about cross examination peppered with your own experiences, which gives you a foothold. Nothing beats firsthand experience to get a level of understanding because everything else is just guesswork if you haven’t experienced it, obviously. The more people you cross exam you start to build an extraordinary picture that maybe, just maybe this consciousness thing is bigger than you or me.
@@HoneybunMegapack excuse me? I would say that is pot calling kettle black.
@@HoneybunMegapack you know what, all you do is attack but you have brought nothing to the table. You can’t respond to my questions or engage with the conversation and you haven’t come up with a better solution. Friendly warning: be respectful, be nice.
@@HoneybunMegapack your primary source of life comes from consciousness. That is where you start. How do you go from that to the belief that consciousness is created in the brain. Where is your evidence? Can you see the paradox?
I do agree with Schellenberg on this. Ultimism > Theism > Deism > Monotheism > Yahwehism > Jesus. I am a Christian and I simultaneously believe what he is saying is a rational philosophical perspective. Meaning others may come to a different conclusion about the pathway shown here.
Most atheists or agnostics equate “God”, e.g. Yahweh, with Zeus, which is blatantly a straw man. I view the God Yahweh monotheistically and as presented in Holy Scripture, but also as someone (personal) well beyond man’s past and present descriptions and different than any of the mostly ludicrous caricatures commonly used to describe Him. In this sense, though He has known attributes, He is mostly unknowable by ordinary methods, especially those involving the Scientific Method. This means, yes, Faith is a requirement, and that has a long history in belief.
Hurray!! You are only one god away from being an atheist. If you would only use the same rational thinking that you used to eliminate all the others.
Religions....the cancer of humanity
@@Lalakis i see that here the most aggressive people are atheists/materialists instead ... I never see a religious guy attaching someone else. While materialists have this anger inside against everything ...
@@francesco5581 There is no such thing as atheist/materialist. And read more comments to see how poisoned is the human brain from religious indoctrination. Yours is no exception I see
*Ludicrous caricatures*
Who's being desrespectfull here? People believe in these entities, you know...
What you consider to be a false god, is the "one true god" to some other believer. And if you believe these other gods don't exist, who has the onus of proof for that claim?
Have you proven that those gods don't exist? Or do you expect believers to prove to you that their gods are real?
An after life is wishful thinking.
only wishful thinking in the mind of skeptics. those who remain open minded, or indeed those who have clinically died and experienced "the light" would say quite the opposite. only upon your death bed will you know the true meaning of your own existence.
Are you indifferent to me ?
Of course death is final!
Wow; afterlife to maximize potential; Viktor Frankl would *love* it!
Thats always how i thought of it, an afterlife where you can fulfill all desires or actualise all your potential. The realization of all ideals.
@@Yameen200 I'm having difficulty rationalizing the notion of an afterlife. I can imagine a personal afterlife only by identifying with some eternal body. Karma and spirit make an impersonal reincarnation, as i imagine it. I'm inclined to aspire toward and identify with truth.
@@mediocrates3416 Well how could we know such details of whether we have bodies tangible or spirit like or just disembodied minds
We cant rationalize it. Its something entirely different from this world if it exists.
@@Yameen200 I disagree.
@@mediocrates3416 How can u disagree with common sense. We dont know what an afterlife experience is like as nobody living would know. So who are you disagreeing with. Reason ? Logic ? Common sense.
Some souls are reincarnated and some souls are permanently in my embodied Body !
Christianity is the only faith based on the absolute and the probability of One. Prophesies fortold years in advance and fulfilled to the letter.
Follow Jesus Christ
For God so love the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life
If humans knew (beyond any doubt) that life continues on after the death of the physical body,...
(indeed, continues on in a higher and more wondrous context of reality)
...then all of humanity, long ago, would have found a quick and easy (painless) way of committing suicide and thus none of present humanity would have ever come into existence due to the depletion of the physiological means (bodies) by which humans are awakened into life.
And that's why it is essential that the existence of the afterlife is kept hidden from us so that we are not compelled or tempted to seek it out prematurely.
_______
few dead people back to live again after few days/hours, & some of them said, they saw Jesus or Bright White Light, & hear His Voice. that's what Jesus said, although dead people back to live again, unbelievers would never believe in Him/God & His Words. so funny, ironically atheist prove God, that Jesus is God because His saying about them is so right! 😅
Resurrection is Reincarnation !
Death can't be 'Final' (fortunately or unfortunately), If reality is infinite /without an end(I can't imagine how it could be limited) then there is nothing that will never happen again, including you coming into existence again as conscious being, and maybe coming into existence infinite number of times, including watching this video again and reading this comment...
I reject the premise “reality is infinite. “
@@Bringadingus it may not repeat exactly (identical copy) but most likely close enough to make you exist again.... BTW even on this show, it has been said many times before that if "The universe is infinite, then there would be infinite copies of us".
@@cps_Zen_Run there are infinities even in the world we live in, it's a long philosophical debate that whether infinities exists in our world or not, I read a book 'infinity and the Mind' by Rudy Rucker, he make a case on how infinity exists in our world.... To me its impossible to imaging ultimate Reality /Everything to be finite.
@@hemant05 I understand your position. I don’t have the mental ability to grasp infinities. The concept of infinity, yes. My life experiences indicates the impermanence of everything, especially life. May you stay healthy and safe.
This is a form of the idea of eternal return (first formulated by, or at least popularized by, Frederick Nietzsche, who thought it was a type of hell).
But if you repeat your same, say, 80 year life twice, ten times, an infinite number of times, for all experiential purposes you still only experience one lifetime.
If eternal return were true then your current life could be the hundred billionth time you've had this life and it doesn't change anything about the problem of mortality. Your personal experience is still as limited as if you only lived once.
Most physicists don't think something like eternal return actually happens anyway. It certainly doesn't happen in our universe (which may well be the only one) because for most of its existence it won't even have any matter.
Death . I see no future in it.