James Tabor - What is an Afterlife?
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What does it mean to have an ‘afterlife’? Are there different kinds of afterlives? What would it feel like to be in an afterlife? If one samples the various afterlives on offer from the world’s multitudinous religions, one would be forgiven for being confused. Here’s the core question: If there is a an afterlife, do individual personalities persist?
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Dr. James D. Tabor is a retired Professor and Chair of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte.
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Closer To Truth, hosted by Robert Lawrence Kuhn and directed by Peter Getzels, presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
At the quantum level the stuff that we are made of never dies, our consciousness or memories will return to the universe, perhaps even feeding into a sort of cosmic library.
Excellent. Many thanks to RLK and his distinguished guest and lifetime friend James Tabor for bringing to life the underlying uncertainty to what has been long taken for granted.
Thumbs up. See my comment.
James Tabor is a wonderful fellow!
ancient Egyptians had a story where at one point, during the boat trip, right after the end of one's life, their heart was weighted against that of a feather which symbolized a life well lived... so let's make the most of what we currently have and leave without any regrets 🎃
Isn't it interesting how they always leave out ancient Egypt?
A feather in weight is very light; light must be ye heart be, as pure as light itself.
Our heart’s are heavy with microplastics. Good luck.
@@S3RAVA3LM Just stop with your worthless woo woo.
everyone makes mistakes, and regret is important to reform us moving forward
After life for me is waking up after dying in a dream.
Row row row your boat..
@@David.C.Velasquez
Dream a little dream of me.
Surely the real question to be asked is what is there before life???
Neither question can be answered. It’s like trying to peer past an event horizon.
A twinkle in someone's eye?
Dust
The same universe that will be here after life, for as long as it exists in either direction
Atoms.
Awesome video!
Sooner or later, we'll all get the answer to this question.
The Siberian Shamans say that we, upon death, split into basic spiritual parts. - In that understanding, our consciousness also continues.
I've never met consciousness without a brain
@@sIenderrr I often thought exactly the same thing, like an antenna into the quantum world where information is created, never lost and which is accessible in both a read and write way. You can't help but wonder who else (God) has access to this library of your life from which you can be judged and hopefully from which you can grow and have multiple chances to mature into something worthy of a better place.
An old friend whose passion was repairing clocks and other timepieces once told me that time runs backwards in the universe.
I enjoy this one .
Being here on earth is like a front row seat in this universe. It's a very interesting place. With quite a view.
This was exellent conversation to listen! Still, having studied egyptologgy and ancient egyptian religion, it would have been nice to hear the fact that big deal of the hebrew religious thinking really comes from ancient Egypt.
If there is an afterlife why to people need religions to discover it. If it exists, when you die you go to the afterlife regardless.
In terms of human existence even Abraham is young. I always find it fascinating how 'we' need to define and put corners around things. What other 'religious' ideas are out there besides what's discussed here? As someone else mentioned- ancient Egyptians believed what things? A world where everyone who has ever lived is popped back out of the ground seems like it would be rather cluttered. Is there something after the death of the physical body... my opinion is yes.
Agreed. The churches never quite work that out. It remains a problem . . . at least on the level of mainstream doctrine. But that doesn't mean it needs to remain a personal problem. There is more than enough semantic flexibility in ancient writings, their translations, and our ability to rationalize . . . to make the difficulty of a soul and a resurrection a mere exercise in philosophy.
I'm obviously not as well versed or articulated, but something I've had in my mind is the idea of mythology being lessons used to explain healthy or productive trains of thoughts that are more like teachings that you take your own interpretations from. To hear him talk about how the evolution of these "propaganda" tactics as religions meet tribality opposition. Older religions feel a lot closer to stoic interpretations of the world where the only thing you have control over is the self, and "newer" religions have a more nihilistic approach that is focused on being the most pleasing.
“If you have a soul then why do you need a resurrection?” The church has realized this philosophical problem and that is why they have preached for centuries the sacredness of the body. The Roman church has rules regarding cremation, such as the remains cannot be scattered, they must be kept together, exactly because of this belief in the sacredness of the human body. I must admit, I’m not Roman Catholic, the concept of the marriage of Spirit and Matter, makes a lot of sense to me. However also the idea of returning to nature the remains of my body also has its sacredness. I have just fallen in love with the Mystery.
A similar concept of after life is also present in the Quran. In fact, it seems like we are living an intermediate life where we believe that we are conscious and alive but what about the state before the birth , if the state suppose 100 years before the birth was a death state then we should consider us already in an alive state after death.
At another place in the Quran, it is mentioned that those who died in the way of Allah and did good deeds while living are still alive and even getting things to eat but we don't have the consciousness about that fact. Unfortunately, our mental understandings are based on our conscious experience which is different for everyone and based on the past data known to us.
I’m a little confused. If the ancient Hebrews believed in ‘Hades’ then isn’t that an afterlife?
That doesn't appear anywhere in the Hebrew Bible, but we have documents from Jewish communities in Babylon and elsewhere from around 100 BC or so speculating on that. So many Jews of that time seem to have believed it, but it's not Biblical and so is likely the result of cultural osmosis.
I'm surprised they don't mention Ezra, who according to the bible itself was sent by the King of Persia, a Zoroastrian, to straighten out Judaism. The concept of a judgement day, the resurrection of the body which they discuss in the interview, and several Jewish religious festivals introduced at that time are direct copy-paste from Zoroastrianism.
Jews believe everyone goes to Sheol when they die, both believers and unbelievers. "Hades" is from the New Testament.
Awareness is the only constant of all experience what could be more fundamental to reality than that? Awareness is known by awareness alone.
The mind doesn't belong to the body, the body belongs to the mind, once you grasp how fundamental Consciousness is, the concept of consciousness having higher forms of functioning realities seems more likely than not.
Some physicists say "Shut up and computate" while others phylosophize. Some people have spiritually ineffable experiences while others have ideas.
A glimpse of the truth can edify an individual for a lifetime while common understandings can persist through generations of college.
Love this’idea’
A child believes in fairytales, but some adults never develop from their infant minds.
King Saul in the Bible summoned the late prophet Samuel to appear but it was actually a rebellious angel who impersonated Samuel.
Cool story
We live only once, so make the best out of it.
i used to think that but not any more.
@@Dion_Mustard
How do you know?
Is it just your wishful thinking...?
@@oskarngo9138 absolutely not wishful thinking. Far from it. I've had years of having out of body experiences so I know beyond any doubt that consciousness is MORE than brain. And no I'm not religious. But I have certainly had some "wake up" experiences.
Imo, I agree and don't agree with you. From a materialistic viewpoint and assuming the universe is truly cyclical, I think its a logical assumption that the subjective conscious observer that is actually "you" continues on, but the "you" that comprises your personality, your memories, your psyche ends. You will also not have any means or way of recollecting this life so it would essentially be similar to how we define "death." Granted I could be wrong as well, there could be some sort of metaphysical afterlife or alternative dimension or something along those lines that lies after death, or maybe the hardcore materialists are correct and this life is it, i don't truly know.
you raise a good point, but if you study NDEs or OBEs you can clearly see that people still have memory/personality/and lucid perception during these experiences, often when the brain is flatlined, or depleted. It seems our personality continues beyond the physical body. I have had such an experience whereby I was complete, and felt totally lucid whilst separate from my physical body. I'd suggest reading "Consciousness Beyond Life" by Dr Pim Van Lommel. @@Marktrius
I disagree with the conclusion that eternal life was never part of the biblical story until the inter-testamental period. It permeates the scriptures from the very story he cited in Genesis regarding the way to it being barred. The problem became access to eternal life, not the question of its existence.
"Afterlife" is a very handy word. So is "beforelife".
Like "drunkenness" and "soberness", "life" and "death" do not exist.
Certainly, not at the same time, anyway !
Brilliant
Well this discussion is right where Christianity should be! We are faced with a "mystery" I guess it could be called a "problem" 1st Corinthians 2-9 Focus all your attention on God, His ways, His thoughts, His desires because you know His design for you is better than your heart can even imagine. What He has prepared for you is greater than what your eyes see and your ears heard.
"Religion is pretending to know things you don't know."
- Aron Ra -
Now that is funny.
It seems to me if I die here and lose the substrate (my brain) that "I" exist on or through that if "I" appear anywhere else after that then that "I" or "Me" that shows up somewhere would have to be a copy of me. So, in essence not me. Also if any of us show up anywhere after we are here, we (our copies) are all going to have to pay $ there too in some form.
I find it very difficult to believe all my dead ancestors are sitting on a cloud watching everything I do in the bathroom.
I think an Afterlife is somewhere where all personal agency is removed from you and you are forced to be happy by some higher power regardless of whether any of your loved ones are there with you.
I love it when Christians say "historically."
I don't really get the question. Isn't being alive once enough? And isn't it enough to be dead after life? Is something lost?
Elijah? What a way to go.
An afterlife is a potential life.
It's about religion, legends, etc., not history.
Afterlife makes as much sense as before life 😂😂😂
If there is no past and no future, only a succession of presents, then there is no death. One is perpetually alive in one's personal string of presents. There is no before life or afterlife because there is no pre or post, only now.
I see you have a PHD in gobbledygook, Piled very High & very Deep.
When you think about a "deterministic universe " the present the past and the future are already one.
(7:27) Greek infiltration like in Acts 6:1 where the widows infiltrate the distribution? The alignment in the New Testament doesn't have that many references to Greek and Roman authors if there is one. I think for Paul, Luke attributes four references. There's the "we are his offspring" from the Phainomena, "Cretans are always liars", Thucydides faults the Persians of Thrace because they "take rather than give" which Paul records as "it is better to give than to receive", and then Jesus is like Pindar when God uses him "to kick against the goads".
👻👻👻👻 ohh the fourfold drug and for Halloween but was St. Paul perhaps following Philodemus' tetrapharmakos logos as an infiltration technique???👻👻👻👻, the four being: Epimenides, Hesiod, Thucydides, Pindar
It's easier to control a populous when there is a carrot of an afterlife.
It seems to me quite obvious that
those who imagine the candle's flame
continues to burn in some other dimension
after the candle is blown out
are not thinking clearly.
Life is a process, not a material 'something'.
Process is a collectivity of related movements.
Movements cannot exist independent of things.
Like life, being conscious is a process.
There are many processes that are not alive or conscious.
Life and being conscious are particular processes and
both are staggeringly complex.
This complexity is what most challenges the understanding.
How we are conscious is more difficult than life to understand.
This is in large part because it is very tricky to grasp
how a collectivity of neural discharge timing patterns
are able to encode and represent the world and the self.
Much trickier to understand than
how a painting of a pipe
is able to represent a pipe
without being a pipe.
We are energy and energy can never be destroyed only transform💫✨️💫
Transformed into something that is not alive, and not us.
Mythology is very powerful in the human psyche
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mathew 7:22-23
"IN THAT DAY" what is Jesus talking about if not the Day of Resurrection/Judgement?
didn't Pharoh's took their gold and belongings to grave as they thought they will carry them to afterlife? thats over 6000 years ago....
I recommend you guys to read Risale-i Nur Collection by Said Nursi. Anyone can see what the reality is from this books and what is afterlife. He is the RUMİ of this time.
You have a lot of optimism about the political will to cooperate with such things. We can't address climate change or overpopulation in our present circumstance. Would we breed a class of worker drones or soldier drones? Many people who are healthy and intelligent just pursue more and more ways to self-aggrandize or Ingratiate there egos utopian ideals can be loaded with issues....
I am always thinking why people deny any idea or fact that not in front of their eyes it doesn’t mean that not exist.. if i live in Room for entire life in a palace and keep denying that there is no earth out side since i can’t see or know it , would it be fair ?? We as human think we know everything literally we are ( trying) to understand but we don’t have right to say such thing since our existence we had no choice how dare we think there is no after life ??
Try expand your view and feel you are nothing in this solar system ( i am not taking about others we don’t know ) i am not talking about others planets that we can’t measure or even see .. our life is not something to be judged by philosophical limit view that might change within years.
If you think about it, heaven is in the 'many worlds'. Sure, the one you are in now kinda sucks but when you've sat on that cloud and rested for a while, bet you'll look down and go again.
You get it.
Dr. Tabor is the man.
if there is an afterlife then i'd say it's something to do with consciousness being non-local.
Ohm Shiva.
When did Homer who wrote the Iliad and Odyssey talking about Greek mythology and heroes became "the most ancient hebrew tradition"?
How about Islam, Vedanta end Buddhism?
It is fantastic that people still believe these stories.
I can make up dozens of them, and ten years later, I will have followers worldwide, lol.
he insists there's nothing there in the Bible, then when given some examples he says well, concept is there, but still there's nothing there. this is a strange talk by an "expert".
The world needs to wake up and realize that everyone is having a "subjective" spiritual experience
i like to think about the before life. why cant we remember it if our soul can remember loved ones in heaven. why cant brain damaged ppl switch tracks and use their soul to remember.
oh yeah cuz soul doesnt exist. That feeling of one is the serotonin pathways. Something psychopaths dont have much of. Dopamine is the selfish "evil" on the other shoulder but its really a survival neurotransmitter.
We already were dead before birth. That didnt seem so bad to me; so its prob same after death too.
But ego doesnt like the idea of being nothing but you already were nothing in the 1700s; no one worries about before life for some reason... only after
The body will surely die, but not the consciousness. If one become conscious ( not referring to I am aware of this I am not aware of that) to become conscious, there is a way unfortunately not the scientific way as you know of.
How do you know?
If one is willing to explore, you will know it.
We experience death on a daily basis, if you can spare time and energy to take a look at it. In no time you will know it.
According to my dictionary, "afterlife" is conscious existence after death.
And "death" is the cessation of life and all associated processes.
This makes me think that "afterlife" is just as daft as a round square.
Where's heaven ?🤔
@@horizons2358
According to the Bible, you can see it from Earth.
All you have to do is look up.
(Mark 6:41)
th-cam.com/video/s7ck2-CwL1M/w-d-xo.html
If humans are meant to live forever and if there is a God, then he will make it so.
The only possible hope of eternal life, is for eternal life as a species. But are we too selfish as individuals of the species to live for the longevity of the species? I heard a Christian preacher the other day on TH-cam say, humans don’t have to worry about the health of the Planet or climate change because God will create a new Earth for us to live on after we die. Humanity needs to start looking seriously at the ways such myths and false, supposedly comforting beliefs, actually end up hurting humanity’s chance of being a species with any longevity.
Did you know we have a prophecy that says all of you will do EXACTLY the narrative you are trying to create?
Did you know it says it would be the dragon and the anti-Christ. Say, aren’t you the dragon and aren’t you spouting anti-Christ rhetoric?
Also, carbon is a life giving molecule. Life would be impossible with out it. Men have zero control over the climate and anyways, isn’t it you, China, who does not care about the environment? Yep, it is.
Social media, the false prophet, it’s is being used to deceive the world and its hundreds of millions of you, as a part of the .50 cent army, who are doing it.
Isn’t it weird that you are doing EXACTLY what the Bible says you would.
Have you an explanation for the math codes found in the KJV yet?
“Christians are holding us back”
The entire endeavor that was called natural philosophy, which became science, which intern became the modern world, all of it was built on the backs of the discoveries and breakthroughs of devout Bible, believing Christians. In fact, the father of calculus and all of modern math spent more time studying the Bible then he did the optics of light. Sir Isaac newton will be in the millennial kingdom with me and Christ.
Why are you doing exactly what the Bible said you would do exactly when the Bible says you would?
That is weird. Are you a computer?
@@jarrettesselman8144Read the history of science back when the Christian church was in power. It was a time when people had no choice but to be Christians or else be tortured and burned alive at the stake. The real history of science during this time is thinkers making progress in science very carefully and cautiously, despite the constant push back against it by the Christian church, lest they end up like Galileo or worse, Giordano Bruno. Throughout this time period, there were also little reprieves for scientists when the Christian church was preoccupied with other things (like murdering witches) where they could advance science in little ways as long as they worded things very carefully. The history of Medieval Christianity is one of mostly fighting against science. Which actually continues to this day in some Christian sects, especially in American Evangelical Christianity.
Weird how there’s ghosts and ascension to heaven in the Old Testament and people keep acting like there weren’t.
They're talking about the actual Hebrew Bible, not the Christian versions of it that have undergone a fair bit of 're-interpreting' in the Chinese Whispers process of translation from language to language. Slave->Servant, Grave->Hell, etc.
Examples please ?
Lots of things have been written by man. Really great Sci fi novels that nobody claims mean anything besides creativity.
I wonder why
are you trying to quote John 1? ..or are you referring to how angels are depicted? or do you mean Elijah in 2 Kings and the chariot of fire idea? Because it’s worth naming that the word “heavens” genuinely just means sky. We have to read the text as its authors and intended audience would have read it. “the heavens” just never meant what we modern christian’s mean by it. We have to bear in mind everything they believed about the nature of the world when we read.
In an answer to a philosophical question he is telling stories with commentaries, as if he is teaching the Lord of the Flies to the undergrads!
It’s so difficult for people to accept that there’s no afterlife.
You are wright. But denying that possibility is not more wise.
It is intellectually dishonest - Materialist's like Kuhn and other Skeptics who ignore quite an abundant accumulation of scientific evidence - of near-death experiences, and they use the most sophomoric reasoning to explain the NDE science away (therefore the intellectual dishonesty) - and then continue on with their blind faith that nothing more can exist beyond their noses. Consciousness itself remains unexplained by these Materialist pinheads - and will remain unexplained, as consciousness is not reducible to anything else - and is only correlated with brain function, and is not a product of the brain.
It's because our present lives are so crude and worthless, filled with suffering and lacking in pleasure.
Nobody knows so speculation is healthy
@@somerandomvertebrate9262oh I love that atheist "logic":
Atheist: there's evil in this world, therefore there's no God
Religion: every evil act and every suffering will be compensated on Judgement Day
Atheist: You're using evil and suffering to JUSTIFY your believes!
🤷🏻♂️🤣
Perhaps Zoroastrianism might have a bit to contribute to the foundations of these beliefs?
An afterlife would be a new set of bill collectors.
God better give me a body of a super model!
It is an oxymoron, like a round square. Life is a conclusion and is defined by a conclusion, after which other people judge you.
If we believe in holy beings its just something that comes naturally. Just like when we see UFOs n believe its Aliens. And just like those keep reaching far out in science keep coming out with all kinds of fantastic thoughts !!
One great story that will turn every Judeo Christians convert to Islam is the story of eternal life after death. The only story that is complete and flawless, like the religion itself. It also fit into the narrative of QM's determinism.
Hey babe; let's take a walk on the wild side. What if we are the eternal one?
🙂🌎⏳🙏♥️
It’s a concept driven by fear, egotism, narcissism and superstition
John 5:24
Someone Please Reconcile/ explain the the existence of “Human-Intestinal-Parasites” using the God hypothesis...!
It's a wish.
only took 13 minutes to answer😂
James Tabor may be a great historian, but he brings us no Closer to Truth. He declares in one breath that there is NO AFTERLIFE in the Hebrew Scriptures, and then with the next breath he states that after death people went down to the underworld. That is an afterlife! He chooses to ignore those in the Hebrew Scriptures who were lifted up to heaven. Other societies began to understand there was something better because God also had a relationship with them. Different, but a relationship just the same. Who is he to declare what God is up to? If you deny the spiritual side of our existence, you shall get no Closer to Truth. That is why materialism will never reach an understanding of what consciousness is.
>"He declares in one breath that there is NO AFTERLIFE in the Hebrew Scriptures, and then with the next breath he states that after death people went down to the underworld."
In that bit he was referring to the documentary evidence we have of belief in an underworld among some Jewish communities around a century BC, believed to have been cultural osmosis from the Greeks.
@@simonhibbs887 Your operative word is...."believed". The idea of cultural osmosis is a belief. Materialism is a belief.
@@gordonquimby8907 Sure, it's just that some beliefs have a lot more evidence to support them than others, but no knowledge is certain. It' just that some knowledge is so overwhelmingly likely that it's not worth worrying about it too much. We probably just disagree about what knowledge that is, and that's what's fun to discuss here.
@@simonhibbs887 I love a good game of linguistic gymnastics.
@@simonhibbs887 It is true that after death prople went down to the greek underworld called Hades. If you done good things you will go to the place of comfort in Hades. But if you done evil things you will go to the place of torment in Hades. Luke 16:19-31. Then they will wait there in Hades for the Final Judgement of God if you are going to Heaven or to Hell. Ecclesiastes 12-13-14. Hell is the eternal punishment. Revelation 20:10-15. Preferably New International Version.
Afterlife means, that God the Life promised to reach one day in far far future the ability to wake you up from the dead and recreate you. And until this point you remain dead and in a very long sleep..
It's amazing what you can claim about the Bible if you haven't read it.
I like these videos- most of them. But, I wish they were dated. It's not essential but it would be interesting.
Adam and Eve eat from the tree of "knowledge of good and evil" they are kept from a "tree of life" which was also in their midst. Jesus is sacrificed by being nailed to a tree🤔
How does such an educated man miss the Old Testament references to eternal life being a promise to the faithful? Aside from the promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, there are many examples. Just one, Psalm 23:6 NASB20 - "6 Certainly goodness and faithfulness will follow me all the days of my life, And my dwelling will be in the house of the LORD FOREVER."
That literally speaks about this life, not an afterlife... Jews don't believe in heaven (they all go to Sheol), so there is no afterlife of "in the house of the Lord"
Old Testament such a horrific philosophy of life
The entire Bible is built on the concept of everlasting life from the very beginning. Adam and Eve were created to live forever. They only lost this prospect because of their disobedience. The loving creator of mankind could not abandon the offsprings of the two rebels to such a doom fate. His standard of perfect justice kicked in so as to rescue the obedient section of mankind.
Thus came in the Abrahamic covenant recorded at Genesis chapter 22 verse 18: "And by means of your offspring all nations of the earth will obtain a blessing for themselves because you have listened to my voice."
What blessing could all the nations get if death is the ultimate end of all mankind? This is the whole basis for the coming of the Jewish Messiah - to liberate not only the Jews from the curse of sin and death but the entire obedient human family.
If the the guest wants to preach philosophy, good enough. Let him make that clear and leave the Bible alone.
But didn’t the Egyptians believe in life after death-at least for their Pharaohs-as far back as 4,,500 years ago?
3:57 I find it interesting that the one "responsible" for screwing up eternal life for humanity is, again, represented by a snake.
Go Bluejays!!
>"is, again, represented by a snake. "
You mean was originally represented as a snake. The epic of Gilgamesh and the Babylonian flood myth pre-date the corresponding parts of the Hebrew Bible by a thousand years or more.
God is responsible for "screwing up eternal life"... God created hell, God created death, God created the rules of sin and what sends people to hell. Satan had nothing to do with it.
Poor snakes….such a wonderful animal being used as a symbol of evil. I think the best animal to represent evil is us
The Greeks ( self admittedly) got all there knowledge from the Egyptians
Yes, I think maybe the guest was about to get into that at 8:29… (i.e., where the Greeks got the idea for a heavenly afterlife), but the conversation went in another direction. Sadly, for me, because it was something I really wanted to hear about.
Which are quite obviously so since we have unnecessarily large brainz.
Ma'Sha'Allah, Glory be to Allah! Im glad you are thinking about After-Life and God. Brother read Quran. Also read Bart Ehrman about Bible.
ask a fly
Religion - of any sort- is nothing more than wishful thinking.
'Amen'!
Must read the Quran
"People say....... " I say is no god, it's all a product of our imagination. Just listen to what the man said. He is an historian of a time when humans were formulating what they thought life and death was all about by using their imaginations. They come up with all kinds of things. It's us, that's it.
Ohh wait, what happened to Islam’s point of view? Doesn’t matter?! Let me assure you this, Resurrection is coming after death in the form of your body. It’s necessary, real and not a hard job at all for the Creator who created us from nothing. Read Qur’an for God’s sake!
No way, sorry. In the Old Testament, THE GOD OF ABRHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB IS THE GOD OF THE LIVING, NOT OF THE DEAD. There is a persistent view of enduring hope, an Abram's Bosom for the righteous awaiting the final resurrection, and it's not an ellenistic infiltrarion, but a progressive revelation
Tabor is pretty objective, Kuhn is disappointed yet again....
It wasn't really until Jesus started reciting The Tao that a lot of this confliction started .