Coping with Narcissists. Numb, Disconnected & Dissociated. Trauma & Codependency Recovery. Romano
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- Lisa A. Romano and Ross Rosenberg discuss how and why disassociation or emotional disconnection is a coping strategy or defense mechanisms to deal with or manager deep internal emotional pain of loss, trauma, neglect and/or abuse. The discussion includes how one's disassociation is an element of codependency, Self-Love Deficit Disorder or someone who is an Adult Child of an Alcoholic.
Ross Rosenberg & Lisa A. Romano hosted a webinar on February 13, 2016, called Banishing Fear: Finding the Courage to Heal from Codependency/Self-Love Deficit Disorder. The full webinar can be found here: www.selflovere.... Banishing fear and finding courage to heal or recover from codependency, or what Ross now refers to as Self-Love Deficit Disorder (SLDD), is the perfect seminar from those who want to heal and grow into more complete self-loving, self-caring and self-respecting individuals. Ross Rosenberg and Lisa Romano, two internationally renowned experts in the respective fields, jointly participated in a life-changing seminar that focuses on the codependency/Self-Love Deficit Disorder and trauma recovery. During this three-hour webinar video, Ross and Lisa gave their individual presentations while interacting with each other throughout. Questions from the webinar audience were also answered.
Ross Rosenberg - Breaking Down the Fear Barrier to Codependency Recovery
1. “Codependency” No More - Introducing Self-Love Deficit Disorder (SLDD)
2. Attachment trauma is so frightening, we have forgotten it
3. Fear is a major obstacle of SLDD recovery
4. Core shame sets up SLDD related anxiety and fear
5. Finding the courage to be vulnerable
6. Facing Codependency Addiction’s withdrawal symptoms
7. Bravely enduring necessary losses
8. Beating Pathological Loneliness
Lisa A. Romano - The Freezing Function of Core Shame
1. Why we fear confronting narcissists?
2. Why is it we struggle so much with having boundaries?
3. Why do we lack self-love?
4. How we can tap into courage to confront our fears and begin the healing journey?
Ross Rosenberg M.Ed., LCPC, CADC latest book, The Human Magnet Syndrome: The Codependent Narcissist Trap (2018) and his personal development, seminars, workshops, and other services can be found at his Self-Love Recovery Institute company, www.selflovere...
Ross is a psychotherapist, educator, expert witness, and author and is known globally for his expertise in codependency (Self-Love Deficit Disorder™), Pathological Narcissism, Narcissistic Abuse and Trauma Treatment.
His book, “The Human Magnet Syndrome” sold over 120,000 copies and is translated into ten languages. Ross’s TH-cam channel has amassed over 19 million video views and more than 200K subscribers. He is a keynote speaker and educator who has presented educational workshops in 30 States/70 cities and abroad. Ross has been regularly featured on national TV and radio.
Join us on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter:
/ thecodependencycure
/ rossrosenberg_slri
/ rossrosenberg1
#codependency #codependencyrecovery #healingcodependency #healsurvivethrive #lisaromano
Lisa Romano absolutely "gets it" better than most people with "all the letters". Thank you Ross for pointing that out. Many therapists with Phd's are clueless on this topic. And thank you both for your insights.
My pleasure :-) Thank you for watching. Best, Ross
Not hard to find a PhD who is a narcissist
If a parent tells you oh you just have a chip on your shoulder it's obvious right there they are toxic at the very least you could try to understand why your kid is defensive 🤦
@@RossRosenberg hi sir my name is Pedro , I’m 49 years old and wish to seek help and protection from My parents Narccisitic power it’s difficult to explain ..
thank you for giving a shit enough to try and help others heal
HI Thank You Both So Much for Caring for US . I am looking Forward to Healing from this PAIN. U BOTH are an INSPIRATION To Me. 🏴🌹💖🌈
Hi Ross I'll be in Touch if am going to do the Seminor on February. This pain in the bones is awful. I found it difficult after doing a Workout. Had to lie down and Meditate. I am DETACHING FROM MY DAUGHTER JUST HOPE AND PRAY SHE GETS INTO DETOX SOON. THIS IS ABOUT ME NOW. I know I am Worthy and Enough today. 🌈🙏😍
After a lifetime of being an anxious attached and constantly attracted to avoidants I realized that I had no framework for what a healthy relationship looked like or was. I was never secure as a child/adult...life was always insecure and felt like it could all fall apart at any time. I started seeing a secure attachment therapist and it has been the most amazing realization. My therapist is my surrogate secure relationship and is teaching me how to be in healthy secure relationship. This is life changing!
I was exactly like you: attracted to narcissistic avoidants. But then I spent a lot of time with my aunt and uncle as an adult and was able to see what secure attachments looked like in a marriage bond. Recently I met someone who was intensely into me for a couple months but then suddenly backed off and stopped investing into me at all (as soon as he did that I became anxious, almost obsessed, lol). So I saw my pattern repeating, until a friend sent me a link that helped me the most: the video "Why You Can't Leave The Relationship (Intermittent Reinforcement) - Teal Swan." I highly recommend it. After watching it I realize that I don't want to be emotionally starved anymore, so I know I have to move on from this guy and find someone else. The video helped me also see why I was addicted to people like this- she explains that scientists found that rats in experiments became obsessed when the reinforcement they were given was sporadic (such as from an avoidant partner) while they were not obsessed when the reinforcement was constant (such as from a secure partner). So it's kind of wired into the brain, until you become conscious of it. Anyway I hope you have time to check it out. And good luck! I think we all deserve to have loving secure attachments that nurture us rather than a life of being fearful of abandonment from detached people.
this is very interesting concept. I, as well, can not recall a single moment I have not been full of anxiety...be sure not to be a burden, do not be in the way, do not take up time, do not have a need. ....teach thyself, take care of thyself, ...Im so lost after never having anyone to bounce off what is real...I feel nothing is real. So disconnected...do I exist?
David Christopher me too Dave...so I pretty much avoided any type of relationship for the last 20 years cause I don’t feel healthy
David Christopher so happy to hear. If a relationship feels familiar its WRONG for me.
@@roberttweten Me too...I stopped while I was behind. Have been single for 25 yrs with the exception of a brief on again/off again attraction to a Narcissist 15 yrs ago...My man picker is broken, but it is due in large part to early childhood trauma mostly due to neglect & abandonment issues & then followed-up by many emotionally abusive romantic relationships. I'm done now.
The statement It is not safe to feel. I am 59 and today your words gave definition to my pain. Thank You
Jesus! I just today got a memory of crying in my crib standing and no one coming to get me, and eventually falling onto my mattress with exhaustion and falling asleep, I have very little memory of my childhood, only know my mom never hugged me, never told me she loved me, never encouraged me to succeed, thanks Narc mom, now I’m divorcing my narc husband of 18 yrs of torture.
Wow! How did you get that memory to come up? That's incredible. I don't remember my childhood AT all. Just snippets. I divorced mine after 17 years. It's been up hill ever since. So sorry you had a childhood like that Lydia, very sorry.
This is a GREAT discussion. I was 50 when I realized, that the reason I was having a weight problem was because my NPD mom, only fed me one meal a day throughout my childhood - late at night, in front of my NPD stepfather; only because there would be witness' to her neglect if she didn't. I've spent a lifetime, numb to my emotional AND physical hunger and pain, as well as the profound loneliness and disconnect, and shyness which were results of a lifetime of my mother controlling me with shame, humiliation, degradation, slander, sabotage, neglect, and profoundly violent and ugly verbal and emotional abuse. We are in a Dark Age, when it comes to 'parenting' in this country. The "identified patient' is a child being scapegoated by NPD/BPD/SPD parents. Kids are on their own to deal with parents who are their monsters, not their protectors. And children need to believe their abuser loves them, or they can't survive - despite all evidence to the contrary. I've had therapists look at me like I was insane too - cuz I was smiling/laughing through my tears, recounting some of the insane and evil experiences in my childhood. The only one allowed to have 'feelings' or had the right to basic needs attention, food, medical care, etc., were the Narcs in my family. They saw me as their slave and my job was to sacrifice my needs for theirs - in fact to pretend I was fine, even when I was sick or scared. Narcs are nothing more than drunk with power bully's who DEMAND that everyone's life revolve around them - or else! The dreaded 'Narcissistic Rage' is like being nailed to a cross on a whim, for any act of self care that threatens to liberate you from their control over you. I must have died a million "emotional deaths" in my childhood, and the 50 years wasted caring for my NPD mom until her death in 2007. Numbing and learning not to flinch at the sound of her violent-evil words and deeds, was the only way I survived - as anyone who has been through it knows first hand.
Keep up the good work Lisa & Ross - there are millions of walking wounded, shell shocked, zombies in this country - people who don't even know they were abused! It took me the longest time to see clearly how deliberately, willfully, skillfully my mother's goal to break me was, and to destroy my mind, heart, body, and soul - and how it gave her so much pleasure to see me suffering and writhing in pain. Abusers only feel secure when you cower and demonstrate your commitment to putting their needs above all things in your life. Dare to dream of a life without them at the center of it - and prepare to be carpet bombed by an assault of rage and hate that would make napalm strike pale by comparison. They demand complete self sacrifice on the part of their victims - they are sadistic, selfish, and evil beyond measure. And people in Child Protective Services, schools, even mental health professionals are mediocre and gullible at best, when it comes to understanding children or surviving adults, who are attempting to overcome a childhood or lifetime of devastating traumas. We need to educate the victims, so that it doesn't continue to get passed down or go unacknowledged. This is not mere 'anxiety', this is full blown PTSD. About 5 years after my mother died, I was feeling pretty relaxed on lovely Sunday afternoon, watching a movie I really enjoyed, when someone driving past my house, pulled into my driveway, so they could make a U-turn. The immediate primal fear and PANIC that ran through my body caused me to jump up frozen in fear, my heart pounding like a race horse, and that same screaming in my head I'd felt countless times when I was young - "Oh no, she's home. Mom's home! Run! Hide! But hide where"? It took me hours to recover and calm down again. And that was 2-3 years AFTER, a shrink told me that I'd been abused as a child. Cuz to hear my mom tell it, she was the 'Woman-Wife & Mother of the Year", who slaved and sacrificed for her family - and should be awarded saint-hood her love was so pure. And no one appreciated her - we were all ungrateful for not recognizing her courage, genius and self sacrifice for every crumb of contempt, abuse, neglect and invalidation she vomited all over us. You don't even know how odd it was to talk to a therapist, who when I said something, they listened, and responded as if they'd ACTUALLY heard what I'd said - so they responded to me 'on topic'. Narcs are crazy makers! You feel like you're the one who is insane when you talk to them. I went through the temptation to cut and kill myself many times too. And my mom refused to her me - she'd respond to my words as if I'd said something completely different. The best description of a NPD mom I ever heard was on Law & Order, when Chris Noth's character said of his mother, "My mom was the kind of woman who could hold a bloodied baby up to a mirror, and the only thing she'd see is her own reflection". That was both my parents to a tee!
This sounds like a small thing, but about a month or so before my birthday every year, my mother would pick the most viscous fights with me, it was an avalanche of hating me making me feel worthless and undeserving of any good in life, ever. By the time my birthday came around, I couldn't even look people in the eyes, I'd sit there in front of my candle lit cake numb and shell shocked on my birthday, pretending in front of my grandparents that I was fine - that I was loved, cherished, in fact I looked like a "spoiled child", forced to "graciously" open so many nice presents. Like most abusers, they pretend to be saints in front of witness' - so no one will ever believe their victims should they break their silence. After my nightmare, narcissistic mom died, again, about a month or two before my birthday, I started to have anxiety attacks. Suddenly it hit me - I had been conditioned to dread every day that was supposed to celebrate me or my life; my birthdays, xmas', my school accomplishments, or talents, etc. She made everything about her! But this time, I thought, "No way. I refuse to be a victim who let's my evil mom rob me of joy for the rest of my life - even from the grave. So I threw myself a little birthday party - making 'fun and joy' the new association that I would feel about my birthdays - interrupting the conditioning of dread and fear she'd spent my lifetime training me to feel. And it worked! The pathway out of abuse is self-love, self-care - even when it feels 'wrong', because you've been trained to feel 'guilty' when you put your welfare above your abuser/Narcissist. My mom could have taught a class in 'wife beating and child abuse for sociopaths', she really missed her calling. But then this is really about the "Psychology of Power" seen in Nazi Germany's ability to objectify the Jews they scapegoated - this is bullying on steroids. NPD's and BPD, have the minds of children drunk with power, like kids wielding loaded guns - they only challenge the vulnerable. Personally, I think they have over identified with their own abusers, and feel empowered when they make others feel as vulnerable and frightened as they were once.
Emotional abuse is beyond insidious - it murders the soul, and the scars are invisible to others, including ourselves - until we start to wake up from the numb Hell that we confused with a 'life'; a life of quiet desperation; a life of chronic sadness, depression, fear, anxiety, illness', loneliness, etc. But the good news is "abuse can only happen in secret". Children need to be encouraged to 'tell', taught to expose their abusers. EA's like all cowards, fear exposure and accountability - because they don't care about love, they care about 'control', at any and all costs. And unfortunately, that only works on victims who still have hearts and the need for love, security, family, belonging, etc. Society should require abusive parent's to be publicly horsewhipped. After all, who knows better than a narcissist, and all other emotional 'control freak' abusers, that "everything with a nervous system responds to pleasure and pain - and wants to live". If my mom was still alive, now that I've come out of this numbness a bit - she'd be singing like a canary, and dancing to my tune - because all bullies are cowards! After all, she taught me more about psychological warfare than the CIA. The only problem with revenge is - I'm everything she wasn't - I'm loving, brave, kind, talented, bright, educated, perceptive, merciful, loyal to a fault, protective, and more important - I'm FREE. I didn't wake up from this intense, systematic and horrific brainwashing young enough still have a full life ahead of me, I'm in my mid-50's now; and I resent like HELL the loss of my youth and once great beauty that was robbed from me by a sadist who put me through Hell on Earth. The life I might have had, had I been born to loving parents who cherished me. But some days I feel more optimistic, even happy. And I have 'cop eyes' when it comes to spotting other emotional abusers. So the next time someone tries to dominate me or put my neck under their boot - they'd better be prepared to fight to the death. No one will ever be able to destroy me or make me question my worth or sanity again.
julia912 d you know- I still hate any calendar day; birthdays, Father’s Day, motherdays - any calendar day- because I hated how my father would create these nasty, awful emotional environments, then expect us all to be happy and play pretend To “celebrate” these various days.
Hated it- to this day I hate the idea we have to put on a show on these days- let a day be valuable and happy for its own sake- not like my father, being nasty and then using these days for a fake show of happiness
no words.
julia912
You are just an amazingly wise woman after i heard everything you wrote with tears in my eyes I said to myself , " I am everything she wasn't." You made it through and I hope you celebrate that Everyday in some way shape or form.
Your spirit is eternal, may it soar in every-way possible.
Glad you are still here to tell your story
Happie dasie .
julia912 d God bless you. I appreciate how well you have articulated your struggle to heal and I identify with the anguish to fully reclaim your identity, self respect and self love.❤️
@@jetbrown2125 I am very sorry to learn that you also went through such traumatic experiences. My Mother and along with my other two siblings had horrific holiday's and birthdays that were ruined every year for the longest of times. Cheers to better days ahead of us all my friend.
OMG! I feel so validated from listening to this honest, open, genuine conversation which seems to mix real life experience subjectivity with clinical/psychological objectivity in a beautiful, harmonious, healing, gentle amalgamation.
I LOVE this conversation and listened to it over and over. There is no competition, jealousy, hierarchical BS, competition, etc. Beautiful! I feel that both people are really working together and supporting one another's words rather than trying to out-talk one another. Thanks so much Ross and Lisa.
Diana D beautiful! :)
Indeed.
I agree Diana. That is healthy behavior when two counselors can teach each other and others and learn from one another without superiority over ruling the conversation. Ross as a man does not display envy or machismo and that is so refreshing to see in a man. Lisa does display a little insecurity but it is because of the traumabond she suffered as a child but by her experience she brings alot to the table and they both come up with fresh, new material...new terms. Good job Lisa and Ross!!! Colleen ☺
I agree. 💝
This is the first time I have ever commented on a video on TH-cam, after watching these videos for years. Words cannot give justice to how grateful I am to the both of you. I am a codependent and I grew up with a victimized narcissistic/ borderline mother, an enabling step-father, and an "I don't know what"
father. I have suffered in silence for so many years, and my biggest fear in life is passing any of this on to my two amazing daughters. I recently watched the new Cinderella movie with my girls. The mother told Cinderella "Have courage and be kind," before she passed away....before Cinderella had to endure the abuse from the narcissistic Step-mother. This has become the quote my girls and I use often... almost a motto. I must say that both of you truly bring these words to life. Courageous and kind...thank you for sharing so much of yourselves in order to help others who are suffering deeply. I felt HOPE when I discover you, along with Spartan Life Coach and Ollie on you tube. I want so much to heal...thank you for preparing me for this journey I am about embark on. Thank you.
Val McAdoo brilliant thanx for sharing i had the same experience.
Amen.blessings.
I have absolutely disassociated my entire life and have referred to this as 'survival mode' because it has been the only way I could live each day through my circumstances and continue to take care of the daily things that needed to be done. I've never wanted to crumble and be incapacitated especially when I had two children to raise. My children are grown and have their own families now but still I continue to be disassociated because I have always been in relationships with narcissists. My disassociation has been so severe for so long that I am unable to even cry. Does anyone else experience this?
Yes, I agree 👍. She really gets down to the core. I'm 65 and just heard this information for the first time. I wish I had discovered you both sooner.
As Ross always says, it is never too late. Please consider exploring his resources at www.selfloverecovery.com/
I've had dreams where I was talking to my narc dad. I remembered as a child a frozen feeling where I wasn't allowed to express a certain feeling.
My abusive narcissistic ex husband told me so many stories of how his parents hurt him. Lisa, he was suicidal and lonely in his teens. Despite this, he insists he grew up perfectly. He is so self destructive and manipulative. I left because of abuse and I want to save our children from being abused and becoming abusive. This conversation is so helpful. My ex told me why he is who he is. I even tried to help him because I am empathetic. He is not. He is narcissistic and has victim mentality. It is freeing to know the truth and have the knowledge to see we have to love ourselves and stay away from poisonous people.
Suzanne L well done- protect your children. My mother didn’t protect me and it’s set me back twenty years
Yes, disconnect was normalcy for us. At some point we forgot who we were. We were ripped of our identity and being able to speak our truth.
This is one of the most eye opening videos I have ever seen. I wish this could be taught in schools. This is the real truth. Lisa you are magnificent and brilliant. You both have changed me.
Glad you enjoyed it!
If you are interested, you can find Ross's complete video seminar here: www.selfloverecovery.com/collections/video-seminars-downloads/products/banishing-fear-finding-the-courage-to-heal
I have become so disconnected from people that it is hard for me to understand in my heart, even though I understand in my mind, that you are talking about me. It was not my parents, but still, you tell my story. But to me the idea of someone else understanding my problem is........surreal.
Yes Trish TV! You've said it better. I was trying. Simply Beautiful, aren't they? I am certainly grateful to them both. Peace to you and Thank You.
Isn't this sad ? In my state/county we have no where to go for support, and if you can not afford a counselor and there are no support groups, in the community, in the church, with your family, you and I and others are truly alone and here we are listening to videos, writing and having no real person to speak to about any of this. It is surreal.............
@@bethwall just an idea but what about reading some books and then starting a support group?
I am 61 and still disassociate. I just thought I was tough.
Teresa, I'm beginning to believe that I do it myself.
wow I'm sorry
I cannot agree more! I'm 41 and somewhat defeated ... people who only know me in the professional world call me resilient, problem solver, consistent, strong..... and reliable. I see it all in myself too, every day I am these things, yet my head still tells me I am not any of those things....
@@sundipowellrn8258 try to stay rational u got this
I thought I was a drug addict ..id rather be high then remember and feel
Lisa is much better than most therapists. I understood so much from her channel about narcissists and about myself. One of the best channels on you tube. This woman is so great at what she does.
I have become selfloving and independant. I no longer search for hapiness were i have found unhappiness.
I take responsibility for my happiness and do not give away this power to anyone else.
Its ok to have feelings i meet my son in his feeling all the time to help him learn trust and that he can always feel his feelings.
Feel you sadness and let it pass over in real happiness. Heal.
Thank you for your great insight.
I never got much validation or constructive critisism from my dad.
It was hell.
I could never feel content with anything i created.
Now i can say i am a great musician.
I have really Come far!
I too have searched for happiness and peace. I gave my problems to the Lord and he has taken his little lamb to absolutely live in peace and happiness 😎
I once witnessed someone go into an uncontrollable laughing fit when I could tell by the context and the tearful look in his eyes that he was actually triggered.
I tend to do that a lot lol
My mother was a rager too. My younger brother and I would clean the whole house up before she woke up so she'd be 'happy'. Temporarily. To this day, my brother is a compulsive cleaner. I'm not.
@@lilac624 life is our challenge. When we encounter big problems like this we must call on inner strength to learn about it and to overcome it for good. Unfair is just the stuff we have to learn about that others' don't. Believe me, others' have their own challenges to master in this life. At least you and I know what we're working on.
Proud of you Cyndi 👍 sorry this message comes after 3 years!
@@bazgashabir7410 Thanks!
Thank you both for this. I feel a little more healed. 💝
So glad this is helpful.
Literally sitting here crying. This has been my whole life and I am just now realizing it. It's been pure hell. Thank you for your videos. I can't tell you how much this helps.
Man, I could watch this for hours.
KALEIDO jess me 2.
This is what I did in my last relationship. I stopped vocalizing my feelings and needs. And when I did , I wasn't comfortable to do it bc I felt he would leave me. He had left me before, I stayed silent or put a limit on my expression to keep the relationship in tact. In the end my instinct was correct he left me and broke my heart again. I felt it was my final punishment.
Tree deer I am glad u wrote that. As I was reading I thought to self. If I kept going back to the same snake to bite me , would the snake be punishing me or would I be punishing me? And why? What belief might I wish to change in order to change my habit with the snake? Who told me I deserved punishment anyway? I learned from what you wrote. Thank you.
Thank you for being so transparent. This blessed and described my life to a T. I just hate that I couldn't find a good therapist to help me with this. I had to go to TH-cam. I lived codependency for a long time. I am still in recovery. I just wish we had real trustworthy people in the business of healing people. Thank you.
Yeah. I tried two therapists who made me need therapy. TH-cam and books worked wonders! And I could click them away when I had enough. Empowering.
I feel cod and narc is a spectrum of a symptom (adaptation) of the same wound. I do go in both directions. We have to become okay with our shame . After becoming totally exhausted by being codependent and then angry because nobody gave me the love I needed even though I was taking care of everyone else I fell into the other extreme of numbing myself to everyone else and just and only focusing on me. I feel like I’m slowly but surely overcoming this and what helped was facing my inner shame, and realizing that it does not define me by becoming aware of it and learning more about this dynamic.
I agree that it's a spectrum. As I re-assess my past relationships I can see myself as the cod & the narc, depending on what my partner was willing to be (all of it unconscious of course). Do you think it's possible to be one or the other at will?
I agree; we are all in some degree of cause and affect...somewhere in the cycle and full circle of being humane. ...some get stuck in the negative and some in more positive....and all just keep spinning to find equilibrium/ ) seeking a VALENT between the positron/negatron...there is a neutron....Balance
I'm a codependent. I've noticed the same thing...when I'm talking to my therapist about the behavior of my abusive parent, I start laughing and become sarcastic. It's weird, like the emotion disappears and I'm laughing all of a sudden.
YESSSSSS!!!
When i start remembering things that my narcissistic "father" said or did to me, i start laughing hysterically! and make sarcastic comments in my head
it's really creepy when i think about it.
The first time I saw a therapist was in college. I was deeply depressed and doing very poorly in school. (I also learned, at age 40, that I have ADD, which explains so many problems in my life). When I first started seeing this therapist, almost every day for a semester, I hadn't cried in something like 8 or 9 years. Both my parents were physically, emotionally and psychologically abusive. My mother has narcissistic behaviors, but I'm not sure if she's a full blown narcissist. In terms of disassociation, I responded to being hit and being belittled by my parents by shutting off my feelings -- physically as well as emotionally. I also smiled a lot when I was out in public, and I usually tried to avoid eye contact. After I'd been seeing this (wonderful) therapist for a while, I opened up about the kinds of things my parents did to me -- I recited them in an emotionless, grocery list way. Then I looked at her face and saw she was crying. I'm not sure why, but seeing her crying kind of woke me up to how horrible the things I was talking about actually were and I started to cry -- but it had been so long since I'd cried, it's like my body forgot how, and it came out more like coughing and choking. After that day, though, I found myself crying more often. It took until I was in my 30s and I started going to a Codependents Anonymous support group (after reading a Melodie Beattie book and recognizing myself) that I realized I didn't know what emotion I was feeling at any given time. Most of the time, it just felt like I was angry. The group helped me see that the anger was a shield and behind that shield was a hurricane of feelings. I gradually started giving those emotions names and it became easier for me to sit with the shitty ones -- like sorrow -- and let them wash over/through me until they gradually subsided (versus burying them). Now, however, I find myself thoroughly screwed up by an 11-year relationship with a covert-altruistic-narcissist who discarded me because, I think, he could tell I was starting to wake up out of the fog he'd put me in and was thinking about leaving HIM. He is still in my life. I asked him why he'd want to keep coming back here when he was starting a new life with someone else and he said, "Because you're the most awesome person I know." Of course, that had a hollow ring to it. He also said, "I hope we can remain close. I would be devastated if we didn't" and he's told his family that I intend to keep in contact with them -- which I don't. Of course, he didn't ask me. This relationship, though, has really thrown me because after 5 years of CoDA support group meetings, I'd thought I was if not "cured" of my codependency, at least aware of pitfalls that go with this issue. But I fell into a huge, black manhole and STAYED there for 11 years! I had been trying to come up with an exit strategy for more than a year, with the help of another therapist (who kept telling me my boyfriend is a narcissist), but of course, he had to beat me to the punch. So now I want go back to a CoDA support group and try to figure out how I fell into that hole -- and, I hope, recover from the knee-buckling pain Mr. Wrong left me with.
I will tell you why you Dave, Lisa, Ross why you are my favorite videos to watch. Because you all have a humble Spirit and you do not sound like...know it alls. Keep that humility and your careers will soar!!!🕊🌈❤😇 Colleen Black
I am so greatful for your videos. I had no clue I am a codependant and my therapist just informed me I was disconnected
from my own feelings until a month ago when my therapist told me. I honestly thought up until last month that running myself hair strand thin was my job as a mother, wife and daughter. I cry threw so many of your videos.
Thanks for sharing...
After finally seeing the light and waking up, I was fortunate to find Ross Rosenburg including this video. It is comforting to know that I am not alone and am understood. 16 years of being a co-dependant in a relationship with a borderline which ended 4 months ago. After going through the utter pain from the split, I have forced myself to do some soul searching where I realised that I am a co-dependant. Ross's videos have helped too in discovering the odd relationship I have had with my Mum all my life and how this has contributed to my fractured being. I want to be a happy loving being and with the fantastic videos Ross has posted and book on it's way, I hope I will see this journey through to be who I want to be.
With each video I discover another piece of the puzzle. My most sincere thanks. Your willingness to put this information on TH-cam free not only helps me, but obviously a great number of others who have experienced what you discuss.
I can trump these stories. When I was trying to get to grips with my childhood trauma, trying to come to terms with the NPD abuse from my parents- I confided in my grandmother at that time. This was a big mistake, in my trauma, and trying to come to terms with the past, I completely missed that my own grandmother was absolutely also an NPD, and part of that cycle. She’d treated me as the golden child (or golden grandchild) and in my ignorance I had always thought this was simply genuine compassion.
I remember finally working up to saying, something along the lines of “I am really, really unhappy with the way my father treated me when I was younger. He did some terrible things.”
And she reflexively said- “yes but you did terrible things too.”
I will never, ever forget this unexpected knife in my side at a moment of intense struggle and confession.
I felt such enormous anger that she could say this- I asked “what terrible things did I do?” She couldn’t or didn’t say anything in response.
I felt so angry (righteous anger), I had to leave the room. I knew I wouldn’t be able to carry on, I was so angry, I had to have a time out- and believe me, that almost never happens.
In retrospect, I know for a fact she carries guilt over the way she (most definitely) mistreated her own children. And I think she saw me beginning to hold someone to account for their bullying behaviour, and she reflexively attacked me- I was a proxy that had to be shut down. That’s my thinking anyway- my realisation and holding people to account was a threat to all NPD systems, so I had to be shut down.
I sat upstairs for half and hour and let the red mist clear, she came upstairs and said, again I will never forget this, “you wouldn’t kill anyone, would you?”
What level of fucked up is that? She seriously asked me if I would kill anyone? I’ve got zero history of violence, can you imagine a greater undermining of me in this moment of need? Instead of reassurance and validation, I’m being told that she worries I’m a murderer.
Yes folks- this is a true story. I can’t believe I made it through that whole phase. I’ve finally shut her out entirely- it was very hard to come to terms with the fact the person I thought was my rock of support was actually just another NPD. I’d been golden childed, which believe me is NOT the same thing as having someone genuinely respond to and care for you.
I am sorry for what you experienced. Thank you for sharing your story. Now, I am thinking perhaps my Gramma had NPD...just like my Mom. Anyway, I hope your doing okay.
Oh my Jet Brown sometimes you just have to let them be, maybe gandma has bones in her backyard.
You were wise enough to see through her eyes and you held true compassion for her.
Stay true,
Happie
Amen, where there is hope...there is healing....as long as one breathes....there is hope....stay strong.
Life directs you when you want to break free. I clicked onto this while searching for a totally different subject. I clicked onto this and didn't notice it was not the one I thought it was. BUT! It was the one I needed to confirm my own thoughts.
I started listening in the background while going about my business. Heard some keywords, and then sat down to give this my total attention. Thanks, guys, you were spot on and now I can do a lot with this. It just pisses me off that none of these ideas for self-healing was around when I was young and needed a change so I could stop repeating my pain over and over again even while doing my best to go opposite my learned behaviour. I was still walking into it with my eyes open unable to see it coming. You can not stop something by the information alone. You must apply medicine to heal yourself if you want to break free of conditioning.
Most importantly, stop blaming your parents and understand their love and ability was as crippled as yours is today are so they could not do anything more than they did. In most cases, they did love you as much as they were capable of giving.
You begin to realise this when you have children. You give them everything you have so they do not feel anything you have had to feel as this is what you believe LOVE is.
You give over and above to your own kids but they end up blaming you for the same things you blamed your parents for and you are left struggling even more with why and how this happened when you know darn well you did everything opposite in their lives so they will never suffer the mental torment you have undergone. How did this happen to you? When you did everything to avoid this?
You simply didn't realise patterns repeat themselves by way of your understanding and all you have learned in your nurturing years. You need the right medicine and that medicine is understanding your parents first and then understanding yourself. Then you can set about to renew your old ways into new ways.
You become whole and that wholeness is what your children develop. Bringing up children is not a surface thing. They read internals. You do all the surface stuff different because that is where you think the problem lies. The problem runs much deeper and you are that problem in their life. were you a bad parent? NO, of course not. You did everything you could. Chances are so doing your mum and dad. So in view of this little Gem, maybe ask yourself again, Did my parents love me?
You need to bring yourself up again before you can ever expect not to repeat your past coming after you because all we keep doing is running from our own shadow. Our shadow is only a reflection of what we are doing and it is always behind you.
You can't run from yourself. You have no idea who you are. So now what you do is simple, accept who you are or think you are right now, ugly cripple disgusting and every other low self-esteem idea we have of ourselves, and then set out to permanently change the falsehood into truth.
To change, you require a more balanced person to show and guide you through this process as it is foreign to you. I have God to help me because I do not believe anyone gives a shit about me and they are justified in doing so because I make mistakes all the time.
My pattern in life was rejection over and over again. Self-esteem issues were my best friend because I believed people were right and I am always wrong. I must be because I was told so in my early years but not by my mother. My older siblings were my biggest influence and they were not nice. My want for their acceptance meant they must be right in treating me this way..and a load of other rubbish that came with accepting anything they said or dished out on me, just to have them be nice to me. I grew up in a home of 10 siblings. 8 of them were much older than me. They got along well with each other and there is always a runt in the pack of chicken in the barnyard that is constantly bullied by the others........... Hello! Runt here., writing this letter in hope my words assist just one person in their desire to make changes to their now unhappy life. It can get so much better.
When I started listening to these two wonderful people in this video, I realised immediately they have struggled with these problems. Only those who know it and are still working on bringing themselves out are worthy of my time and your time to listen to as knowing how something feels is far different than knowing about something as modern psychology books try to teach the up-and-coming psychologist today.
If you have been under some doctor for years and are still struggling like you were years ago, find a friend or someone who knows what they are talking about. I have found psychologists to be piss-pathetic for what I need because none have experienced the inner torment I have and they suggest ridiculous ideas for you to try like you haven't tried everything before you get to them. You explain you have tried everything they suggest and condescendingly they say" "well, Let's just try it again" ...derrrr...
You know you cant and so you are left feeling as useless as you did before seeing someone. These bandaid people may even cover your wounds for an hour or two. but as soon as they are gone the bandaid falls off so you are constantly in another pattern of believing you need help all the time. so get out of there, and find someone who knows what they are talking about and then you will thrive.
You need to become dependant upon you alone. You begin by resting on a trusted person shoulders to carry you for around 6 months as they teach you new patterns in your thinking. After that, you should be ok to fly on your own. The other person need only be the fall back on person when you are struggling. Once the struggle has passed..move off on your own again building you dependency back to you again. New patterns should be in place 'if' the person you trust is good at what they do.
Why your dependency should be on you is because you have never had it. Your life has been structured around other peoples expectations for you and you have submitted every time for the want of being accepted that you so greatly need. You actually don't need this at all but you feel it because this is the missing validation you did not feel like a child and it is an important building block to have for building self-esteem that you greatly lack. So you get it when you are older. so what!. but like a child, they need this to build self-esteem and eventually, they do not look for it from others because they now feel confident within themselves.
Once you can see and feel the way your mind and body needs and has been missing all your life, you will find other people views become irrelevant to you and all those things you needed from others you no longer need anymore to validate you as a human being that belongs in this world. No more self-esteem talks to yourself in the mirror because you no longer have to remind yourself of who you are. You simply just KNOW IT. You can now cope in life because you have a new understanding, a true understanding of who you knew you always was but denied it because of the opinions of others. You also realise what you always believed about the kind of person you are, lying underneath all the surface crap you thought you were, was truly who you are. Your belief in other's opinions of you was total bullshit and you only believed this because you did not know yourself. You discover the reality of opinion about another's shortcomings is merely a direct hit out on you their own weakness they do not like about themselves. YOU WILL NO LONGER ACCEPT another opinion of you because you realise where it is coming from and this is where your parents come in again. You are now in the strong place of understanding what others around you have not understood for themselves. You are the LUCKY one. You should not use this knowledge to blame or bitch about others but because you are now wiser, you might consider guiding them into the truth about themselves. If someone doesn't want to hear from you, that is because they are not ready to accept this as them and not as a rejection. Go onto the next person you think may benefit. I guarantee someone is waiting to discover their way out too.
If you are a helpful person, don't shy away from helping another for fear of rejection. Your value is not defined but those who do not agree or want to hear from you. You are no longer in the game of finding acceptance fro others. You grew up. you are on your path of helping others as someone helped you. You are looking for the ones who need you to lean on for 6 months so they can find a way out of their torment.
We are our brother's keeper.
_Lisa O.
4:04: oh man, isn't this the truth! No context, no acknowledge just blame and judgment. I have had challenging anxiety my whole life until about 8 weeks ago when I figured out the root cause. Mainly, never knowing what "I was doing wrong," I felt like every social situation and relationship was like having a sniper on a rooftop waiting to shoot me down for my unnamed transgressions. Turns out, it wasn't me at all. Now that I know what's what, my anxiety is lower than ever and I'm so over this BS. I'm pressing in, seeking healing, and moving on. Sad for them. Life is too short for this nonsense. 20:05 - I'm doing that now! So, so healing to figure out who I was meant to be and experience healthy parenting for that girl. It is very empowering to go back for the purpose of seeing what loving, nurturing, encouraging parents say and do rather than blame and ridicule. That doesn't motivate anyone for good.
Thank you both for this... All points are dead on... I'm still listening so perhaps this hasn't been mentioned yet, but a huge component to dissociation is part of the fight or flight (or more accurately the fight, flight or freeze) response. Also, for those who have DID, this brings all of the issues to another level in which traditional "talk therapy" can retraumatize the person. I'm saying this as someone who has DID and someone who has worked in the social services and mental health field for 15+ years... Thank you again for all of the videos and this one especially.
Caroline Ann Torge Martin : pls explain DID. Thk u ya 😊
What gets me is why was there no advice and awareness hardly of narcs in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s ?
Dave Dogge yeah and it was so normalised back then, certain narc and co dependant/sociopathic behaviours
Dave Dogge the age of Aquarius ♒️
It was there. The 70's was a major time for the "me generation". Lots of self help books, assertiveness training, 12 step groups, etc. The 80's mostly focused on child abuse. The 90's was the aftermath, cleaning up the mess of false satanic abuse claims. Info about narcs was available, but not a major focus because so many other problems got the spotlight. Now is the time for dealing with it. Many people wish they knew sooner.
Internet has enabled survivors to speak out, compare stories and join forces.
@@2degucitas "cleaning up the mess of false satanic abuse claims", seriously? Narcissists are great at Gaslighting and demonising. All too many victims of said abuse have been shutdown. Think about that. Let that sink in. Don't make such a statement again, please, for the sake of the victims/survivors!
Thank you Lisa and you Ross for this x. I completely disassociated and listening to you guys brings tears to my eyes. Since my narcissistic mother passed away last year, I feel, I'm slowly beginning to understand what happened to me and hopefully heal. My mother too, was a rager. My first experience of depression was 11yrs old. I was in and have been in so much pain, only my disconnection method was to laugh it off. I found humour in tragedy to get by. Everything she ever made me do, I've tried not to inflict on my kids. I maybe praise them too much, spoil them too much only I never want them to feel as I did as a child or adult. Thank you again, both of you, for all your work in this. xx
THIS EVENING....know YOU BOTH ARE GOD sent
this is such a depth charger of a conversation...wow
I have been following both of you for a whole year and read both of your books too! Just wanted you to know I feel like I must be doing something right seeing you both agree and talk together 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Love you both, thank you 💕💐💕
I had to stop at 8:07. Can't even handle hearing what a horrible mother I was for not protecting my children. I was medically and financially dependant, psyched out, screamed at every single day, TRAPPED.. I don't know WHY..
They didn't advertise for help with NARCISSIST abuse back then and even if they had, I had no CLUE what I was dealing with. I'll have to come back to this on a more emotionally stable day. This is all so awful.😭
Thank you for all of your videos 🌟💫💞
Great discussion. At 9:46 I think that Lisa, as Dr. Rosenberg points out, says what might be the origin on this ever-lasting drive to avoid reality that I personally been feeling all my life (close to 50 now) and that I cannot get rid of. Thanks Ross & Lisa for your video.
Thanks to all putting this out there. I have endured this from my family my whole life. My mother even played it she was the good one, then I called bs , mask came off ,reality hit went numb brain fog confusion physical health in the tank. Somehow I figured it out. The despicable behavior that came with the scorched Earth policy to destroy me was unreal but I knew what they were doing, got them exposed. Oh and all the frauds who were pretending to be my so called friends came to light. I knew in my heart something was wrong my whole life..... I went no contact....did some fasting that helped heal cognitive dissonance and my brain,....The reality that they wanted me in the gutter and never even knew who I was..... well they are just going to have to be dissatisfied one more time. This was what I had to learn in this life. Tough lesson but this family curse had to stop.
When I was done, my behaviour I believe was confused for Asperger's Syndrome, a neuro diverse learning disorder. All of my siblings, like me, were very quiet in the first ten off our lives when out in public, but crazy fun at home. Our mother was, or rather still is, a very driven, intelligent, work focused woman, but very narcisttic at heart. This is turn affected the majority of my relationships later as a Codependant. Eventually, earlier is year, I experienced a very traumatically neglectful relationship, and during my recovery later (which included major withdrawal symptons), I came across Ross's work. Not only have I been undoing a past relationship, but essentially 25 years of worth of struggle. I'd spent the vast majority of it asking myself, "What the hell is going on with me? This can't be normal." And eventually, I found my way through :) so Thankyou, Ross :)
You mean a shitty, worthless mom.
finally realized my condition after 50 years. this is such an eye opener
God bless you Neida.
Neida cartagena yes, now we have this information thanks to TH-cam, internet, people are talking, I wish I new this 20 years ego
I am 74, until 9 months ago l did not see the games these people play. I always stuck up for myself nevertheless my whole life has been affected by their behaviour. I have gotten over the anger. Now all l want is never to have to deal with anyone else who is a Narrsacist.
I am 71 and narc father still at it 95 now. Only him and me left and he sits on all of my inheritance. I have been unable to move on independently. I simply cannot attract heathy relationships or environment. I have God in my life for comfort and hope for the future
Wow... that's exactly what I went through last week with my therapist... now I get it. I had no idea why I couldn't feel anything after talking about some stuff. We spent 50 mns trying to get back into it and never was able to.
Oh My Goodness! Lisa. You are able to express a world one allows none entrance to. You can tell the story. You don't have to be allowed in. You know, your own self. My goodness. How,.............(searching for the word), relieving. Relieving at Dictionary.com. Thank You both for this.
You two would be fabulous on tour….therapists are being trained by the pharmaceutical/disease model/ industry. Your voices and teachings are so needed. Great video!
I am crying. This is me.
There is no ‘help’. No one cares. Whenever I try to open up in always gets thrown back in my face.
“Whenever you feel, as you always do, that everything is going wrong and you're about to be annihilated, turn to your death and ask if that is so. Your death will tell you that you're wrong; that nothing really matters outside its touch.”
In fact, it’s very much like surviving a rape or other kind of abuse, by dissociating with what is happening.
Especially if you have been raped and pedophile situations
When I was a child, I found a way to dissociate from pain. I called it the tunnel. Excerpt from my fifth book:
On more than one occasion, I had jokingly told those around me that I had long-term memory loss and couldn’t retain information. Under stress, my memory was so bad that one day while at the supermarket, a woman who seemed to know me greeted me. “I know, you from somewhere, I told her.
“I’m your next-door neighbor,” she responded.
I tried to hide my embarrassment with the excuse that I was under a lot of pressure, which was true, but that didn’t help make me look any more competent. I had that old gnarring feeling that something is wrong with me and I had to hide it.
Physicians are still not sure if the problem is biological or environmental, but I find that both factors contribute to the disorder. If all is well in the environment, the inner chaos my head is quiet, but as soon as I find myself in a stressful situation, I cannot access the memory cells needed to help me navigate through the event.
Always looking back, I have walked away, thinking of what I should have done, and what I should have said. I can actually feel my mind falling back into place, as I get further away. That is when I turn on myself, feeling stupid for not knowing the answers on a test, or letting someone berate me, unable to find the words in my defense. “What is wrong with me?” I have asked myself excessively during my life.
The empty holes in my memory were not because something awful happened to me, but because I had learned to remove myself from reality. This caused large gaps in my memory. For years, I wondered what happened to huge chunks of time. In uncomfortable situations, I retreated into what I call The Tunnel.
I discovered The Tunnel in the halls of our apartment building, in Brooklyn, a place where I often played. Baby carriages under the stairs, including my newborn sisters’, were a reminder. My mother was not available. I would stand in front of the mirrors that lined the halls and stare at my reflection from behind. The tunnel effect created multiple images in the mirror and fascinated me. Somehow, I felt safe. I spent a lot of time alone in those halls and look back now at a sad, lonely childhood.
The world was a scary place. Lying in my bed at night, I could hear my mother and father fighting. Too young to comprehend, my body would go numb and a feeling of weightlessness came over me and I removed myself-to the safe refuge of The Tunnel.
Happy moments changed without warning and I couldn’t trust them. At a family wedding, I could still see my mother smiling and dancing, surrounded by music and family. My father sat at a table, glaring as her lovely frame as it glided across the dance floor. He drank one scotch on the rocks after another until jealousy took hold of him and his rage cut the evening short. Driving home in a drunken stupor, he yelled at my mother as he stomped on the gas pedal. “You had to be the belle of the ball, flirting with all those men?” He snarled.
I cowered on the floor in the back seat, praying we wouldn’t die. I felt the car tipping from side to side and whispered, “Please, Daddy, don’t,” as he sped around the curves.
I existed moment to moment, without any sense of continuity or predictability, and lacked the emotional grounding to make me feel safe. My sense of value depended entirely upon what was happening in my relationships and I lost a sense of security.
I was on my own since Mom was busy with my younger siblings. On Sunday, I walked the block and a half from my house, to attend catechism and mass in preparation for my First Holy Communion. Our Lady of Guadeloupe was a place with darkened halls and stained glass windows. Leaving the outside world and entering this sanctuary, I had the feeling of protection by a higher power. The air was thick with dampness, thick enough to cut with a knife. The musky scent of holy water mingled with the lit candles and gave me the impression that I had gone back in time. As I dipped my finger into the holy water to make the sign of the cross, I felt assured that this miracle fluid could cleanse away my sins. The nuns clad in their black robes and snug headgear seemed to have trouble turning their heads from side to side, as they guided the children to their seats and then stood guard.
Alone in my pew, feeling a holy aura, I followed along as the people around me sang the hymns in the prayer book, but no sound came out of my mouth. Sit, kneel, stand. Everyone stood up and headed to the altar. Naturally, I followed. People got on their knees and folded their hands in prayer as the priest moved across with a large gold cup and put something in their mouths. As he drew near, I closed my eyes and opened my mouth so he could place the wafer inside. It was hard and dry and lay on my tongue like a piece of Styrofoam. As it started to melt, I realized it was stuck to the roof of my mouth. I was afraid to swallow or bite into it since the priest told me it was the body of Christ.
Before I could sit back down in my pew, I felt my body lifted off the ground and dragged outside. The sun blinded my eyes as I urgently tried to adjust to the light. As they cleared, her habit came into focus and as the blurriness of her face sharpened. I could see the anger in her eyes. “How dare you receive communion before you have repented your sins. You’re going to Hell, Young Lady!”
I disconnected from her voice and slid into The Tunnel.
Janet Sierzant for me I just wouldn’t talk. I was EXTREMELY SHY. Not anymore that’s for sure.
Wow just wow. I have chills reading this. I have a feeling you are very talented.
This is very close to my experience,to this day i still forget things or dont know what to say when in a fight.
Wow honey I can relate ❤️
Wow, you have put into words what my childhood was actually like. I was raised strictly and expressing anger was the forbidden thing! Any time I tried Dad would say "hush up" so my anger was then against my Dad & ended up anorexic/ bulimic, but had to train my mind it was OK to even eat. Thank you so much for the videos! Such insight & very well stated by both of you!
10:00 I couldn't agree more about this comment on not needing a PhD to understand these concepts on a deep level. I feel the same by personal experience as a child and years of hard work through counseling.
Much love to you Lisa
Dear Lisa, I just love your work and must tell you this.I feel so connected to your issues and what you say makes so much sense to my life. Thanks so much and God bless you.
Hello Mr. Rosenberg & Lisa, Thought you would find this interesting as it directly relates to the topic of this video: The Latin word, and thus this name, came from the Greek noun ναρκισσος (narkissos), and that noun (according to Plutarch 2.647b) came from the noun ναρκη (narke), meaning numbness or deadness, in turn from the verb ναρκαω (narkao), meaning to grow stiff or numb, and which survives in modern English words such as narcosis and narcotic. Ancient authors also make mention of a certain fish named ναρκη (narke), which would benumb anyone who touched it, probably an electric eel of sorts, but it's not clear whether benumbing was named after the fish or vice versa.
Ross - you hit the nail on the head when you said if we express our anger at the narcissistic parent they punish us. What can we do then? Or is completely breaking off all contact if the parent is unable to see how they are hurting you the only option?
I just did that with my mother. I dunno if that was the right thing to do, but I just need space and time to heal without being triggered... For my kids sake.
Sounds like you made the right/best choice possible.
When I confronted my mother all hell broke loose but I do not regret it at all. It brought all the truth out. Her uncontrollable rage reached peaks that I had never seen before and all secrets were poured out of her mouth just like a drunkard in their moments of deep drunkenness. I was shocked by the things that she said. Later on I decided to go no contact for good. I still can't do so due to circumstances so I am low contact now but it's definitely my plan. What do you really have there if they do not recognize your pain from what they've done to you? It's not an authentic relationship and worse than that, it's an abusive one. I'd say RUN!
Interesting... for me, it's my older sister who is like your mother, and I too have gone to low contact. With my parents, who are only slight narc & codependent on the sliding scale, I confronted them and got a ton of wrath and excuses and they said they wished they never had kids, etc, etc, but at the end of a couple of months of angry conflict, they actually cried and apologized, and oddly they became slightly better people after all that. I guess it all depends on where you are on the spectrum. But my older sister I tried for many years to help her "heal" and get over her pity-pot eternal victim form of narcissism, but this never worked. After I spent thousands of dollars and countless hours helping her, she had no gratitude and merely found new reasons to be a victim, and had a very short term memory of anything I had done. In fact, a few months after I had helped her significantly, she got angry at me for defending one of my boundaries with her and stomped out of the family house at Christmas and wouldn't talk to me for almost a year. Unfortunately, in addition to narcissistic tendencies, she also has traits of other cluster b disorders: borderline and histrionic as well. It's not that I don't love her, but she is not capable of being around me without hurting me in some way. I truly feel compassion for her, but I think I finally realized after trying to save her for 20 years, that sometimes if you jump in to rescue a drowning person who is bigger than you are, you not only can't save them but they might just drown you too... I now want to spend time looking to add people to my life who are givers, not takers. People who won't exhaust me and people who won't hurt me.
p.s. What you are describing with regard to your mother is just like my ex (who I almost married). When I confronted him for cheating, he became so enraged I couldn't believe it and said all kinds of cruel and shocking things that I could never have imagined. Then he went back to an old source of supply (someone he had said he would never talk to again) cut me off, and would not talk to me anymore. I was left in such agony it took me years to recover. The unmasking of a narc is so deep, so dark, so shuddery that you can't even believe what you are seeing, especially from someone who said they loved you.
Excellent presentation. Thank you. Growing up in a culture of southern codependent hospitality also seems to add another element.
Yeah, that Southern culture adds a flavor of codependency.
I've known what's wrong for years now... Knowing hasn't done me a damn bit of good, sadly. It never, ever, ever goes away. I'm fundamentally broken, and I just have to try not to cut myself on the shards.
You two are great together! Such a rich resource for us. I have been through many years of therapy... years ago. I did not reach near the depth of understanding that I am now. However, the information given wasn't as clear, direct and concise. And I wasn't taught anything about my dance with the narcissist. So important so I can perhaps have a good relationship one day. I have not dated in over 10 years because of how painful the last few boyfriends were. I have taken that time to say " what the f is happening?" Best thing I've ever done. I look forward to more videos from you both.
This was a great discussion! When you guys spoke about people smiling when they talk about painful memories, I realized I do the same thing. My therapist picked up on it recently & asked me why I was smiling when I was talking about something my narc father did. I had no idea why even though I was aware I was doing it. I wasn't allowed to show any emotion outside of happiness with my father & an abusive stepfather I had as a young child (age 6-9) also didn't want me to cry. My stepfather trained me to where if I cried, he could snap his fingers, yell at me to stop, & I typically would like a robot. If I couldn't stop crying fast enough, he'd send me to my room & I couldn't come out until I stopped.
Thanks for sharing a piece of your story. Glad this can be helpful!
I adore Lisa A. Romano. Not only does she have a deep, incisive and almost intuitive understanding of the Narcissistic abusers; not only does she truly UNDERSTAND the complexity of the relationships involved - she can explain it all WITHOUT resorting to the idiosyncratic, specialized language that those who want to be considered more "knowledgeable" and deeply understanding and subtly superior to the less informed charlatans and posers, often do. Right? Einstein once said, I believe...or maybe it was Mark Twain, "If you can't explain what you know to an 8 year old in such a way that they understand it - you don't really understand it at all." Lisa A. Romano knows and understands her field...seldom resorting to technical jargon or other such devices. And on top of that she's a remarkably beautiful woman.
Discussion made in heaven. THANK YOU!!!!!
I did this also thankfully I'm taking Ross Rosenberg courses
Thank you for this beautiful conversation. It has been immensly validating my experiences and giving us all hope that we can heal. God bless you❤
Awesome, wonderful and truthful, accurate, honest. Thank you both great teachers !
Wow, I hope you both know how much you hit home with me and how much you both do, teaching and saving, like pulling people out of quick sand, real rescuers and gold hearts, thank you, I love you guys!
As a little girl who was raised by a narcissist mother, molested by an uncle, and alcoholism in the home, whenever I cried my mother would say, “ Stop crying or I will give you something to cry about!” I’m 65 years old now and my youngest daughter married a covert narcissist. My life is a nightmare.
I went to a therapist for two years and she never mentioned anything about this. I could have dealt with things better if I had known the rolls family members play. I only found you because I thought I was a narcissist because I am continually gaslit by an in-law. These young people are very narcissistic.
I didn't know you were watching me grow up, lol. I was told by a Christian counselor 30 years ago that my feelings don't count, that they are irrelevant. So I listened to my logical reasoning and dumped him and the husband. Lisa, I know exactly what you are talking about on the tough exterior...At 13 I was called Stone Face by alcoholic NF, and laughed at over it by BPD/codependent M ...And that's just the tip of the iceberg. I totally relate on the internal vs external reality; I could not trust myself, since my internal reality was chronically criticized by alcoholic parents. The disconnect (cognitive dissociation) that you are talking about Ross, is what led me down a dark path in my early teens from the rejection at home and bullying at school (not allowed to go to college because I was not a boy, while praising the professional accomplishments of other people's daughters was just one unbelievable example). Later, bad relationship after another, I asked M why didn't NF participate in our lives more when we were in our teens....Her response? "He didn't like teenagers." That was really interesting, considering he was very involved with his son who came along a few years later.....Even participated as a Scout Master so son could become an Eagle Scout (and I was not allowed to forget it); I was not allowed to even participate in Girl Scouts, let alone have parental involvement. One of the things I noticed growing up was how nice they were to everyone else, even hosting wild parties with alcohol and loud music (I had to help make the hordourves), while at home it was a war zone. It's a miracle I am here, today. So right on point, Ross. Thank You for your work; I have your book on the Human Magnet Syndrome. I hope to meet with you and / or Lisa one day soon for consultation. By the way Lisa, I turn 60 in the Spring.
Funny how those who have been through these things in their own lives go into these helping fields of therapists & psychologists.
they know what it's like, they want to help others :)
Thank God they do. When I went to see a therapist, and told her what I was going thru she told me that she could tell I was angry and my boss was picking on it. If it hadn't been for TH-cam I would still be blaming my self 100%. Now I'm blaming myself a lil less everyday.
don't forget teachers. I'm one and I know many who started life as abused children.
Thank you both for sharing and time sacrificed to understand and share.
I remember as a child, my mom was talking to her friend about me. Her friend was putting me down right infront of my n I was so angry that she wouldn't say anything to defend me. I will never forget that! That was an ultimate betrayl!
just like my ex. at a family gathering, i was sitting down alone and he says, 'why are you sitting there so alone, go sociailize youre so shy'
This is so wonderful. Both of your presences are so healing much love
Every time I expressed my feelings and emotions I was shut down. I had rage issues if I shouted from frustration or it was the time of the month if I was emotional. This what you are talking about is my childhood. I ate to feel loved and safe. I was always in my bedroom away from them all. My brother was the golden child, couldn't do any wrong. My mumstayed with my dad out of co dependency. I told her all the time as a child to leave him and she refused. When me and my brother left home they divorced. This is when my mental health took a turn. I was so hurt that they chose to mess our heads up then divorce once we were adults... going through gaslighting now from co worker...
Thank you x Thank you for showing me where my light and Love is x Thank you for providing 'unconditional' love and support by sharing all your knowledge and information x I can say without any doubt that you have helped to save another life x I can honestly say I am finally taking a step forward, every day, and I hope someday to be able to help others just as you have helped me x I look forward to reading all of your books and hope to reach the point whereby I can join your webinars x
Thank you again with all my heart x
You have come a long way Lisa. Ross thank you. I thought the tears and numbness wouldn't subside but it did.
Wow Lisa and Ross I can totally relate to everything you discussed here. Thank you for helping me understand so much about what I have been experiencing throughout my life.
I dont know how to begin to end this stuff. Me and my four daughters . I hate my wife/life. She is the most evil person I have ever dealt with
great to discover both of you working together!!!! ive been dealing with this since 60's, but feel relief for your work in this area,this is Huge!!!
I am glad that I just watch this video too, from so many. I started to do my Journal a few month ago due Lisa's information/explanation about it. I love seeing both of you together helping so many of us. I was not much clear about "disassociation" until I got a dictionary to understand it. Then i came to youtube typing the words and find you guys talking about it. It helps me a lot more. I see myself very disassociate with my feelings in my body. The little point of my "Iceberg/dissassociation" just got a to the surface. Thank you ROSS & LISA for your love.
I appreciate it. ❤🙏
Wowww I needed this. My mom is bpd and I married an NPD. On the road to recovery 💜🙏🏽💜
Thanks for sharing Sara! Please consider exploring Ross's resources at: www.selfloverecovery.com/collections/video-seminars-downloads
Lisa gets this problem so well, I haven't find anybody who can understand my pain, and the reasons she explains resonate with me all the time! I regret not finding her 3 years ago!
The greatest part is knowing there is a way to feel better and we aren't alone.
Thank you Lisa and Ross. I am grateful and appreciative of having come across this TH-cam clip. Its yet another resounding wisdom of great value, insight. It all aids in my personnel journey in the process self validation, self actualization and healing and in turn awakening. As Lisa so wonderfully expresses and terms it, no longer living under the veil of consciousness.
Monica Corrotea.
Thank you, so glad I found you.
I speak 3 languages, and I want tto translate in italian and french your books, I like so much this kind of speak simply about the troubles, I was in analisis 3 years with an italian doctor, a priest, now I suspect he was...narcisist...he put as worm in me, not to heal my childhood's wounds, but he put some salt in my wounds.Now I find a coach by this method in Italy, but I want to became a coach, in the right way, respectfully, and following the Hippocrates moral philosophy.
In high school, I had a few times when I couldn't take my mother's constant screaming at us kids before we even got out of bed and exploded. She looked at me totally confused, "I don't yell at you." I would try to argue and meet with a totally bemused face. My brother and sister never said a word.
Years later, after I spent about six hours with her being treated in the ER, (about 50 years later) she asked me, "Did I ever yell at you?" It was then that I understood that she had no idea what she was doing.
One thing that I hated about my narc dad that I remember when I was 9, I was sitting in the library doing my Science project. When I asked my narc dad for help, he walked right by me n said no. I struggled so much to work on my project alone. Then when it was my brother's turn, my dad helped him n David won the Science award. I hated him for that! It was real betrayl!
My father always said you stupid, how I felt grown up with Clift palette and suffered with my speech. I fell pregnant by Narp, I stood out like sore thumb to him, was abused all marriage. He was unfaithful disrespect brought woman into my house. So happy to you both to go through the motions. Of feelings I wanted to make everyone else happy. BLESS you both
I love you Lisa!!! You are the coolest. Thank you for being so vulnerable.
I love to see these two together.
This is my life! My Dad was the narcissist and my mom was an abused co-dependent. As a severe codependent, I over compensated in relationships and put on a show that I was happy, confident and had it all together! Psychological loneliness is so severe, however, with Angela Fitch, I'm getting the help I've needed for over 40 years!😗💗
At 62, I am codependent, disassociating and felt suicidal at the prospect of leaving my relationship with a narsissist that I have been in denial about because he is a very intense Leo (6 planets in Leo) personality. I am at my sister's home facing soo many realizations and fears of being self supporting at this age. Self and Money are very deeply related. My ex husband was a narc too from sex child abuse. I was naieve then. Some one said that Codependence interfers with intuition. So very true.
Alright, everyone. Pull out your notebooks and pens, and get to jottin' down great information. Good video!
THIS....... was REALLY TREMENDOUS!
GOD BLESS!
LOVE how you NAILED IT SPOT ON!
First time I heard it like that!
My mother is a covert narcissist, and my father was an alcoholic, who only wanted a son and only recognized him all his life, and totally discounted the girls... but that son became as rotten as he was stubborn and spoiled.
As for the girls, they married the first man who said: "I love you", and all married 'down'.
They were all university-educated, but had zero self-esteem, so did not know to value themselves AT ALL! Because they were NEVER vaildated by their father or their mother! Not a once! Thus, they all married men who had no university education, and became the bread-winners in the family, but lo and behold, were still beholden to listen to their husbands,..... just as my mother was enslaved, and was totally not free, while married.
All of that is just too sad for me to watch, to accept or to tolerate.
Then time goes on..... and children come into play, and grow.... and it all seems to become part of the fiber of their society... so far be it from me to set anyone straight! No one wants to hear, anyway...
As for me.... I see it all clearly . . . .
I see EVERYTHING... and DONT ACCEPT IT ONE IOTA!
That is why I am HERE .... and they are THERE!
I SEE... and they REFUSE to HEAR!
I KNOW... and they PRETEND!
I SPEAK... and they LIE!
I GET IT... so have NO PART in that CHARADE they call "LIFE"!
- NO!
It is NOT!
That is a FALSETTO of "LIFE"!
But, anyway . . .
Kindest Thanks!
Best & God Bless!
xo~A
+Q-S/
This was very useful to me
A more recovered Lisa, and a still recoverying Ross. and her compassion and seeing it all.
I really enjoyed listening to your video Ross with Lisa. You both have so much to bring to the table. Lisa has gone through the experience of her childhood trauma and you explain self love deficit disorder in a deeper, richer meaning to where the hearer understands the multiple disorders explanation more fully in detail. Working as a team together you should put together workshops of educational programs on self love deficits/codependents. By the way Ross, I feel your definition of self love deficit is a much better definition of codependency. Colleen🕊🌊🌬🌈❤