There are two broad categories of atheists. There are those like me who don't care what you believe so long as you don't force your religion on me, and there are teenage atheists who just discovered atheism yesterday and think it's something cool and original they've got to ram down everybody's throat. Most TH-cam atheists fall into the second category, and they piss off other atheists as much as anybody else. They're the sort of kids who watch a few Christopher Hitchens videos and think they're philosophers. It's cute at first - you can tell it's the first time they're exercising independent thought from their parents - but it gets old pretty quick when you've heard the same crack about the Flying Spaghetti Monster for the 99th time.
@LiL Speng Christ willingly gave his life for you my friend, he bought you with his blood because he loves you, it's a gift ...but it's your choice... follow him and be saved.
@LiL SpengWe are weak, none of us are or can be sinless, God came in the flesh and was tempted as we are daily. Following Christ is turning from the slavery of sin with the help of the holy spirit. Many will choose the rewards of sin in this world... and we are free to do so until the appointed time.
@LiL Speng Not a nation on earth throughout history didn't have man made laws, justice, and punishment. How then is the author of all nations unjust punishing those nations or people who break Gods laws ?
@@ThePurpleGoose023 He does not torture you. And we are the only ones who benefit from the presence of God. The whole point of His work in our lives is to get us out hell not into hell. He canot force you into haven or to love Him by rejecting Him you chose hell . If you dont whant to be with Him He will respect your path so much He wont force Himself on you.
@@ThePurpleGoose023 were in all Biblie God uses hell as a treath ? Hell was created for Satan and his angels but apperenly you think " God is mean because He is just and punishes sin" peploe go to prison for crimes they comit on their in free will but dont whant to be there or repent of their mestakes they even use them as decoretaions. The same is with peploe who are in hell.
@@ThePurpleGoose023 the whole point of free will is for us to chose were we whant to spend our eternal life with God in Haven or away from God in hell.
@@ThePurpleGoose023 free will = risck of rebelion The sin of rejecting your creator is what sends peploe to hell not just that but allso that yes for stelling, idoletry, homosexuali, killing and so on. Romans 6:25 and John 3:16 Like i said God does not send peploe to hell just for that but allso that they keep living in sin they dont repent of it . Haven is a place that is pure. Hell was NEVER ment for us but for Satan and his angels . God is just and Holy He has to see that justucie is done but is allso rich in love and mercy and He gives you a a way to be saved. Just why i wander why do you refuse to give me any verse that shows God threading some one with hell. For i see and read only warnigs.
Sorry for you that you are an Atheist. Christ is coming soon and you still an Atheist. Look at the State of the World in chaos. I would advise you to go to Amazing Facts TV on You Tube by Doug Batchelor for Spritual guidance and judge for yourself.
@Sven Andersson If it was the slavery y’all were talking about, I’m pretty sure the slave in the Bible wouldn’t say ‘I love my master, my wife, my children, *I don’t want to go free.’* (Exodus 21:5). If they were being tortured unjustly, & terrorized
"Exodus 21:16 says, “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.”" But whoever legally buys a man from another man... that's fine. "Don't steal people" is the same as "don't steal property"; where is the exortation to not OWN people?
@@JMUDoc It's potentially also referring to stealing free men and pressing them into slavery - however even then, that's still different from buying someone from a surrounding nation or taking a foreigner as spoils of war. Those could still be done under certain circumstances. Exodus 21:16 is a liferaft lots of apologists like to cling onto to argue the Bible is anti-slavery, but this only really works if you ignore other verses like Leviticus 25:44-46. @Saigie Exodus 21:5 also says that if the slave has a wife and children, those are to remain with the master. So the slave could go free, but they'd be leaving their family behind in the process. Is that something you think a husband/father would do lightly? Or at all, in many cases?
Splagchnizomai disobey our parents=getting our ps4 taken away or some shit. Disobey god=torture not for 1 year or 2 but all of eternity, which means forever literally non stop torture. I can’t stress enough how evil this and your god is
@@Suzumebachigr if we didn't then the athiests would kill each other as morality is "objective" to them. We have cops who punish you if you choose to murder or steal,I bet you find that very opressing and want freedom yea ?
@@Suzumebachigr ur last comment lmao u sound so stupid now , god gave us free will that's why he's NOT a slave owner. You are running around in circles by now lol
@Random Person Yeah, I fit that definition. Although I do have an affinity for Spinoza's god. But out of convenience yes I am what I believe to be an atheist.
@Random Person The trouble with classifications of what I'll call "irreligion", is given that we don't have any official authorities (people or pieces of writing) there is really no one to draw particular lines and as a result there is a lot of confusion on all sides. My definition of atheism or some variation of it, is the definition I see most generally used and it definitely applies to me. I don't know if god exists therefore I lack belief in god therefore I am an atheist by definition. If agnosticism is not knowing, then I guess I am both an atheist and an agnostic. I've found agnosticism has a particular stigma about it that when admitted it's used to nullify the agnostics opinion, they say "oh well you're just an agnostic, you admit you don't know anything" as if that is a valid counterpoint to a legitimate point, so I try to steer clear of the term. Atheism obviously has it's own stigma but working through that is certainly better than just being ignored. Some people see atheism and agnosticism as on the same spectrum where you have to be one or the other. Whereas others see agnosticism as a subset of atheism where you have weak/agnostic atheism (me) and strong/gnostic atheism (I know there is no god), which I think is a better system. Using the second classifications I'm assuming you're saying that gnostic atheism doesn't exist? I would like to hear what you mean by that. Thank you for your reasonableness, I'm basically on the other side of the world but I hope to hear back from you.
I’ve been reading the OT chronologically for the past two years, so far I have not seen the Bible supporting slavery. God didn’t allow multiple wives, his ideal plan is one wife, but God still made rules for those that had multiple wives. Im so blessed that I get to be a “slave” for Jesus.
Read Deut 29.10-12. God through the Hebrews buys the slave, to set them free. It's the intent of the entire bible. Christ paid the price for those in bondage and set them free, physically and spiritually. He was evangelizing Himself in the old, when He told them to go out to the heathen. Gal 3.28 is the same as leviticus 19.34,19.18,Deut 10.19. No more classism or racism or gender inequality. That was the allure of the Abrahamic God.
@@Carlos-fl6ch that's what I'm telling you bud. Back up and you will see. The intent and message is...God is God of not just the Jews, but the entire world. That's the intent, and always has been. God through the Hebrews, buys the slave..the Gentile to set them free. Deut29.10. Read that. Permanent slaves are bound by debt...so we all are. It must be paid for.
@@Carlos-fl6ch Well...what specifically do you mean? Exodus? 21 right? I hear those that say Ex21.21 is a sort of license to beat a slave. But you do agree firstly, that they are not forced servitude right? Ex21.16 is forced, against their will. Anything like Egypt was condemned. The Hebrews were forced into slavery there. So, what's left, but willingly selling oneself into bondage...debt bondage. That has legalities involved. The debt does have to be paid. And there are multiple examples of bondservants freed once the debt was paid. There are many scriptures guaranteeing protection from mistreatment...Deut 23.15-16 refuge cities, freed. Ex21.25 same...for mistreatment like losing a tooth from some apostate Hebrew beating them. Freed. They were protected by avenging laws...death for death, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, stripe for stripe etc. Ex21.18-19 was assault against a non servant. The monetary fines were they had to pay all medical, room and board, lost wages etc til thoroughly healed. The apostate Hebrew assaulting the servant in vv 20-21 had "no punishment" because they were already paying room and board, medical, and lost wages etc. The penalties from the avenging laws waited those two days...for severity of assault. That means the servant could very well pay back stripe for stripe. OR trade it in for total freedom, debt cancellation. Ex21.25. It's not at all condoning beatings. The pressure was on the Hebrew not oppression of the servants. Read Jeremiah 34.It's what happens when the Hebrews broke those equality laws...lev19.34,19.18, Deut 10.18, Gal 3.28...no more Hebrew or Gentile, or Slave or Freeman, no more Male or female...all are one, equal in God. They were commanded to treat the stranger, rich or bondservant as equals...to love them as themselves, equals. Native and no difference in the stranger, rich or poor. No classism no racism no gender inequality. Unheard of stuff. That is not slavery...that's a welfare system that eliminates the poor and homelessness. That prevented child prostitution and trafficking and worse. And it's not like every other people group WEREN'T doing these horrible things, but without protection and equality laws and safeguards enforced by God. They did. It's still the number one form of slavery...debt bondage. But covenant with God made them servants of God, basically on loan for 6 years like the land. Deut 15. They has all sabbath's off, every feast day off, free room and board, medical, dental, learned a trade and business sense, absolving of remaining debt, and then they left with a full grant Deut 15.13. If married during that time...the wife would finish her 6 years and do the same...remaining debt absolved and given a grant, like in Egypt. Spoils. The ONLY contentious part of biblical servitude is the permanent debt held on to one. But there's legality there. It could be paid for, but unlikely. That's why the Gentile had Deut 29. It made them covenant partners too...6 years etc. The poor were decreasing it says...so much they outsourced to the Gentiles. But it's God evangelizing...to the Gentiles. God is God of the world, not just the Jews. Christ given to the Gentiles, to the world. That's the whole intent.
Cesar you’re delusional and brainwashed! Your cognitive dissonance will not allow you to read anything other than what you’ve been brainwashed to believe! God himself is an evil slave owner and he gives instructions on how to treat your slaves. Most of the prominent men in the OT had many wife’s plus concubines! I bet you don’t have any idea who this God you defend and credulously believe is. If you think you know who God is, please respond!
If CosmicSkeptic is arguing about it it is an even more absolutist position than him giving his opinion (which would be a relativist perspective). Did you even think before commenting? And he's even gone as far to say what IS and ISN’T moral, again, contradicting his ”relativist” position
@@micahsiemens333 I think he's saying, Atheist claim that Christians are inconsistent yet they will be inconsistent themselves if it makes us look bad.
The idea that the Bible is some set of rules laid down by some supernatural being to guide human behavior is ludicrous. Nobody I know bases their morality off of what is written in the Bible. Every one of them finds the things they already believe and then pick and choose Bible verses to justify their belief. Here is an exercise for you. Take three highlight pens, red, green, and yellow. Go to the rules sections of the Bible such as Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy. Mark the good laws that are part of our modern laws in green, the ones that are irrelevant in today’s society in yellow, and those that are bad laws or not allowed today in red. You will see lots of red and yellow, and very little green. People do not get their morality from the Bible.
As much as I disagree with some of your response, I praise you for handling this so incredibly well. It's quite difficult to find theists that respond to atheist criticism with any, much less *this* level of respect. It certainly doesn't go unnoticed.
@@biblicalbeauty3414 *I would like to know what responses of his do you disagree with?* I know this wasn't addressed to me, but the primary problem I see with his response is he completely failed to touch on the actual point of the video, that being to show "Why the Bible (doesn’t) Support Slavery". It's a 20 minute long video. He found time to misrepresent things Cosmic Skeptic said. He found time to try to undermine Cosmic Skeptic's right to even make a moral judgement. And he found time to poison the well by calling the slaves "the bad guys". But he failed to say a single word showing why the bible doesn't support slavery. He does at least give a decent definition of slavery. I give him credit for this small amount, as most other apologetic videos on the topic don't. With good reason I might add; because the moment you make a reasonable definition of slavery explicit it becomes very easy to show where the bible sanctions it. Such is the case with his definition, that being "A slave is a person who is the legal property of another person and is forced to obey them". Leviticus 25:44-46 reads: "And you may take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them as a possession; they shall be your permanent slaves. But regarding your brethren, the children of Israel, you shall not rule over one another with rigor." This is why I say there is no honest way to defend slavery in the bible. It's just too explicit. There's no ambiguity there; the exact thing that makes it slavery (ownership of another person as your property) is undeniably sanctioned. As for the second part of the definition - being forced to obey - let's see what Exodus 21:20-21 says about how enforcement is done: "And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property." More explicit sanctioning; slave owners can beat their slaves to within an inch of their life. Provided the slave doesn't die within a couple of days there is no punishment. Why? Because the slave is the slave owners property. Can't get much more explicit than that. Call me critical if you like, but when someone makes a 20 minute video purportedly about "Why the Bible (doesn’t) Support Slavery" and they fail to even attempt to show it, preferring to poison the well and attempts to undermine the person pointing out that slavery is sanctioned, I call that video a complete failure. Doubly so when the person uses a definition of slavery that clearly is supported by the bible. Either the author of this video has no clue what the bible actually says about slavery, or he is dishonestly pretending it doesn't sanction slavery when it clearly does (and hoping his viewers won't notice that he failed to show otherwise).
John Smith His analogy that we aren’t slaves of God’s also doesn’t really work. A slave can choose not to work. His punishment? Torture/Death. We can choose to not believe in God. Our punishment? Eternal Torture/Death.
I can't wait untill cosmic skeptic accepts Christ. (Legitimately) I was in his boat once. Ravi Zacharias, CS Lewis and ST Augustine cured my skepticism.
@@AI-tc8fv bro Jesus said, "i'm the way the truth and the life, no one goes to the father except through me" also if you think Jesus never claim to be god, look up john 10:30, this is Jesus speaking, "I and the father are ONE" and if that doesn't convince you that Jesus was actually claiming to be god, then after a few verses, it talk about how the pharisees wanted to kill him because they thought he was speaking blasphemy for CLAIMING TO BE GOD, brother you should leave Allah and Muhammad and come to Jesus Christ of Nazareth and he will heal you and deliver you! god bless you man
Cosmic Skeptic recently posted that his underwear was ten sizes too tight. He has since corrected the issue, and is happier and no longer attacking Christianity.
Are we not gonna talk about how God freed the actual slaves from Egypt after 400 years and led them to freedom by literally splitting the Red Sea? And most of those freed slaves wanted to go back to Egypt to because they STILL doubted God after that. Of course God does not condone slavery! Jesus came and died to set us free from bondage that we actually deserve so that we can be with him in peace and freedom forever!
@@ThePurpleGoose023 Laws to protect outsiders. "You shall not oppress a resident alien; you know the heart of an alien, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt" (Ex 23:9). " You shall not withhold the wages of poor and needy laborers, whether other Israelites or aliens who reside in your land in one of your towns." (Deut 24:14) "The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself" (Lev 19:34). " You shall also love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt" (Deut 10:19) Judges were required to give equal treatment to foreigners: "Give the members of your community a fair hearing, and judge rightly between one person and another, whether citizen or resident alien" (Deut 1:16). "You shall have one law for the alien and for the citizen." (Lev 24:22) Part of the harvest each year was to be left in the fields for foreigners to collect for themselves: "you shall leave them for the poor and for the alien" (Lev 23:22). Foreigners, orphans, and widows were given a tenth of the annual produce once every three years. (Deut 14:28) Foreigners were legally allowed to own Israelites as servants. (Lev 25:47) I disagree with Cosmic on this but frankly its fine.
@@ThePurpleGoose023 Leviticus 25:39-40 39 “If your brother becomes poor beside you and sells himself to you, you shall not make him serve as a slave: 40 he shall be with you as a hired worker and as a sojourner. He shall serve with you until the year of the jubilee. On top of that, if a slave wanted to be free before any of these timeframes took place, they were allowed to buy their freedom. Leviticus 25:48-52 48 then after he is sold he may be redeemed. One of his brothers may redeem him, 49 or his uncle or his cousin may redeem him, or a close relative from his clan may redeem him. Or if he grows rich he may redeem himself. 50 He shall calculate with his buyer from the year when he sold himself to him until the year of jubilee, and the price of his sale shall vary with the number of years. The time he was with his owner shall be rated as the time of a hired worker. 51 If there are still many years left, he shall pay proportionately for his redemption some of his sale price. 52 If there remain but a few years until the year of jubilee, he shall calculate and pay for his redemption in proportion to his years of service. How about a couple of my all time favorites - Exodus 21:16 16 “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death. Deuteronomy 24:7 7 “If a man is found stealing one of his brothers of the people of Israel, and if he treats him as a slave or sells him, then that thief shall die. So you shall purge the evil from your midst. So, in a world where people already own slaves, we see all over the Mosaic Law that God commanded freedom for slaves and gave provisions for slaves to free themselves. Also, any kidnapping and selling or buying of a person was rewarded with death and the person participating in slave trade is labeled as evil. 3. Slaves sold themselves and were more like hired workers This is another important point. God did not allow slave trade the way we perceive it. There was to be no kidnapping or stealing of people followed by selling. Rather, people were allowed to sell themselves into slavery voluntarily. This was typically in order to pay off debts, or simply because a family was poor and selling yourself into slavery gave you provisions that you would not otherwise have. We’ll dive further into that in the next section. Leviticus 25:39-41 39 “If your brother becomes poor beside you and sells himself to you, you shall not make him serve as a slave: 40 he shall be with you as a hired worker and as a sojourner. He shall serve with you until the year of the jubilee. 41 Then he shall go out from you, he and his children with him, and go back to his own clan and return to the possession of his fathers. Leviticus 25:47-48 47 “If a stranger or sojourner with you becomes rich, and your brother beside him becomes poor and sells himself to the stranger or sojourner with you or to a member of the stranger's clan, 48 then after he is sold he may be redeemed. One of his brothers may redeem him, Also, God reminds His people that they are to treat the slaves as hired workers Leviticus 25:53 53 He shall treat him as a worker hired year by year. He shall not rule ruthlessly over him in your sight. 4. The Mosaic Law required good treatment of slaves by Israel The Mosaic laws pertaining to slavery are starkly contrasted by other laws of this day. This is clear when we observe the day to day treatment laid out in ancient texts. Hammurabi’s code, law number 282 says, "If a slave says to his master: "You are not my master," if they convict him his master shall cut off his ear." It seems that those who claim that the Bible supports slavery should be able to find verses as damning as this one. However, that is not the case. All of the laws concerning treatment of slaves are restrictive in nature in regard to the “master” in the Mosaic Law. There is a massive amount of verses that command Israel to treat their slaves with respect. Exodus 21:26-27 26 “When a man strikes the eye of his slave, male or female, and destroys it, he shall let the slave go free because of his eye. 27 If he knocks out the tooth of his slave, male or female, he shall let the slave go free because of his tooth. Exodus 21:20 20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. These are two verses that prohibit violent treatment of slaves. This was an extremely prohibitive deterrent, meant to scare anyone away from beating their slaves. Exodus 21:20 for instance - the penalty here, or “avengement”, is death. If you beat your slave and they die because of it, you will lose your life over this. Also, verses 26 & 27 in Leviticus 21 make it clear that even injuring your slave will allow that slave to go free. This created too much risk for the slave owner to mistreat their slaves, as they would either lose their slave or their life entirely. There are several other examples of God commanding respect for slaves. For example, if a slave ran away from their owner and found refuge with an Israelite, that Israelite was not allowed to give up the slave. In fact, the law commands them to let that slave live wherever he likes within the town! Deuteronomy 23:15-16 15 You shall not give up to his master a slave who has escaped from his master to you. 16 He shall dwell with you, in your midst, in the place that he shall choose within one of your towns, wherever it suits him. You shall not wrong him. Here are a few others that speak to respecting slaves Leviticus 25:53 53 He shall treat him as a worker hired year by year. He shall not rule ruthlessly over him in your sight. Exodus 21:12 12 “Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death. This next one refers to women that were bought as wives Exodus 21:7-8 7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her" So, we’ve really only spent time analyzing the Mosaic Law’s codes that pertain to slavery, and what have we learned from these? We’ve learned that God presses Israel through His laws to free slaves. That is observed in all the texts where God commands slaves to be free in all kinds of different scenarios. We also see God threatening death to those who do not free their slaves. On top of that, we see for the slaves that remain, God requires that they be treated with respect and dealt with “as daughters”, wives, or kin in general. They are not allowed to injure or kill the slaves. They are required to provide food and homes and possessions to the slaves. God’s heart towards slavery was soft and commanded kindness to people who sold themselves into slavery.
@@ThePurpleGoose023 Again, these laws against harming slaves are proscriptive. Most (if not all) other nations had no such laws (until the time of the Greeks and Romans) regarding slaves, viewing them merely as property. In the minds of most ancient cultures, it appears that if slaves were abused, mistreated, and even killed, there were no consequences. But in Israel if you hit a slave and knocked his tooth out or damaged his eye, you had to set him free (Exodus 21:26-27). Clearly you were not to harm your slaves, and this is the context of the passage mentioned in the feedback, Exodus 21:20-21: And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property. Rather than focusing solely on the second part of the verse, let’s examine the first part. The slave owner would be punished if he beat his slave to death. If the Mosaic Law is followed, this could include the death penalty for murder (Exodus 21:12). Do you not think this was a severe incentive to make sure that people did not beat their slaves? Again, the law in this was proscriptive meant to make people think of the consequences of their actions and impose penalties on violation. To imply that this encourages masters to restrain their beating only to the point that the servant didn’t immediately die is nonsense.
The bible may not say "dont hold someone as a slave" according to the cosmic skeptic but it did say "love thy neighbor as thyself" this not only covers not having slaves but anything that relates to hurting someone else.
Exactly! Sorry, total subject change. But whenever a Mormon or Baha'i says, "You know the Bible doesn't condemn polygamy (or whatever obvious sin), you can just say with St. Chrysostom, "Yeah it does! Leviticus 19:18. Your prophet just didn't see it there because he's not inspired by the Holy Spirit." Or be nicer and less of a smart donkey than me.
Then why is the rules of owning a slave there if its "condemned" by the bible. You can categorise a neighbour in many ways. Literal next door neighbour or someone from other country. Considering that the slavery rules are more harsh if youre out of country would suggest it means a literal one. Making your argument "love thy neighbour" completely useless. God doesnt support slavery... well he sure isnt condemning it and left very clear rules and thats the problem.
@@taot7275 because you lack historical knowledge, if you know anything about the culture when those words were spoken, then you would see that even a person in debt is considered a slave. do you think the slavery the bible was talking about was like the African slave trade? yeah you may need to read more. Also, read the book of Philemon in the Bible it tackles the entire issue of slavery. Do yourself a favor and read it.
@@taot7275 and i say again, read history and how cultures were, and judge the culture as it in that time and how "slaves" were treated especially among the Israelite compared to the other races.
That's just the lie desperate Theists tell themselves when they can't comprehend how anyone could choose not to believe not only what they do, but anything at all without empirical evidence.
Do you like Gods laws regarding slavery? Including the ones that say slaves are your property that you can hand down in your will? And the ones about how you can beat your slaves provided they don’t die within a couple of days? If you view these laws as anything other than abhorrent then you either never had an ounce or morality or empathy, or if you did you swapped it for you me belief.
@Tempus Fugit *Don't be daft. It's no more a law that you can beat your slave than you can take out an eye. Read the actual Bible.* Exodus 21: "20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." Precisely as I said. It literally took me less than 30 seconds to Google this. Why is it you are telling me to read the bible when you haven't bothered to look up to see what it actually says? Why is it I as an atheist need to inform Christians of what their holy book says? You're the ones claiming to take this stuff seriously, yet you don't know what it says and won't spend 30 seconds to find out. I have some sympathy because I know you are not hearing the truth about what's in the bible from your pastor or from apologists like Whaddo you meme. I hate the dishonesty of these people either blatantly lying or at minimum misleading people about what is in the bible. But I have now quoted to you what it says so you no longer have ignorance as a defence. You can either take this as an eye-opening experience and recognise you need to read the bible for yourself and not rely on what you've heard people tell you it says, or you knowingly turn a blind eye to it and continue believing the comfortable lie. The choice is yours, but if you choose the latter don't run around telling people that have actually read it and actually know what it says that they are wrong. As for taking out an eye - yes that's an exception with consequences for the slave owner. So is taking out a tooth. And so too if they die within a couple of days. I don't know what point you are trying to make. Are you suggesting if there are exceptions to a rule that the rule somehow doesn't exist? Perhaps you're instead trying to suggest because there are certain protections for slaves that the overall rules for slaves are somehow moral? But this amounts to the same thing - ignoring a very clear passage that says you can beat slaves, and the reason so is because they are your property. This isn't moral, even if you consider an exception to be. *Secondly, you really think it says that it's not ok to injure or kill a slave but it IS ok to kill them as long as it's a slow death? Hahahha. Come on. That's a poor translation and absurd.* I agree it's absurd. It's ridiculous to suggest these are the rules an all-loving and all-knowing being would create. But that's what the bible says... the absurdity is with the bible, not with me correctly pointing out what it says. If you think this is a simple translation error then I encourage you to read all of the main translations to come to a more rounded feeling about how the verse was intended to be taken. I'm hoping by now you're recognising this isn't the first time I've read this stuff. I have read the main translations and I can tell you there's no joy to be found here. The verse is just too clear and direct to translate into flowery language that can be dismissed. I quoted the NIV above for it's clear language. Here's the KJV: "20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. 21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money." The NASB: "20 “And if someone strikes his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21 If, however, the slave survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for the slave is his property." And the ESV: "20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money." I recognise this may be hard to read if it's the first time you've seen these verses. There are ways to deal with these sorts of things and remain a Christian (it's only if you insist that the bible is the perfect word of a perfectly moral God that a hard problem exists). I've spent time making this reply (twice actually, as my laptop battery died just before I submitted my response initially). I've looked up the translations to provide them to you. I'm happy to continue a conversation on the topic, but it needs to be based in reality. Denying it says what it clearly does isn't a way forward.
I read the entire bible 6 times already and the slavery in the bible doesn't seem like what we think when we hear the word slavery, I think that with things as mess up as they are in our country today and so many of us struggling to make ends meet, I personally wouldn't mind being a slave like in the bible with all the regulations that are in it I probably would have better food, better room better quality of living, being slave to a rich family and after 7 years they would have to set me free and compensate me at the same time, that means a brand new car, money enough to survive and probably even start my own business of course I could just decide that I don't want to be free and enjoy the benefits of being a slave according to the bible, at least that is what I read in the bible, not in the same ballpark as the evil slavery practiced in the United states. The bible in the bible is almost like living in a rich people's home and having al your needs provided while saving money for 7 years, so you could decide if you want to stay or you just want to leave it sounds like a good deal to me. I do admit I was bothered by slavery in the bible at first but once I read and analyzed all the details I realized that this is better than having a job getting paid minimum wage and struggling to find a decent place to live. Yeah I'll take the slavery in the bible it pays better people.
@@awakeandalive4248 Did you read the part about how slaves are the property of their owner and can be passed down as inheritance? Or the part where it’s ok for a slave owner to beat their slave? Provided the slave doesn’t die within a day or two there is no punishment at all for the slave owner.
@@JohnSmith-fz1ih What you are told that you can do is simply giving options and putting the idea out there *you* actually doing it is a different story God knew people would enslave but he didn't stop because God isn't a genie or at your command for him to be and do anything you say he'd be your slave..😱🤯🤯🤯
@@JohnSmith-fz1ih If God agreed with your human morality and shared the same thoughts and opinions as you no questions asked you'd be in control therefore he wouldn't be God
Thank you so much for this video! It's tough to admit, but while struggling with my gender dysphoria, I've had a similar mindset to Cosmic Skeptic. I felt like I wasn't given a real choice being a person of the LGBTQ group. I was brought up to believe that if I "give in" and get a sex change, that will most likely send me to hell. I didn't see this as God giving me a real choice at all because why would I choose to be happy for maybe 80 or so years (life on earth) only to burn in hell for eternity? It felt more like a threat to me. Like God was saying "Sure, you can be LGBTQ, but then I'll send you to hell." What you said in this video made sense though. Just because I don't necessarily like the choices/options doesn't mean I don't have a choice at all.
I'm my opinion, a God that would send someone to hell for being transgender is a shitty God. God is love and love is the opposite of hate. Fuck bigotry. Do what you have to do to be happy.
@@dlove9034 why does that matter? If Pharaoh was going to let the Hebrews go free, but then did not because God hardened his heart, how does he have free will? He was going to make a decision, then God stepped in and caused him to make a different decision. Not to mention God did this because he wanted to show off his power, which is very petty. Why is god petty? That seems like a human characteristic and not a very flattering one.
@@amateuroverlord8007 Exodus 8:32, Pharaoh hardened his own heart first, he refused to let of God's people from captivity. The Lord sent frogs, flies ect...But Pharaoh refused, THEN God started to harden Pharaoh's heart. He kinda does that in this day and age, He give people up to a reprobate mind.
@@dlove9034 doesn’t answer the question. God still hardened his heart. The story is very clear, God decided he needed to demonstrate his power, which is quite fucking stupid. The creators of the universe thinks he needs to further demonstrate his power. So he hardened Pharaoh’s heart. At that point Pharaoh could not make a different decision therefore he had no free will.
Luis Pellicer Collado and if you notice, I said in the pinned post, I was doing more parts. Also, I started at the beginning on his argument in the video, and literally didn’t skip a single word. So, per usual, you’re wrong, buddy ;)
@@jeanmeiring so, if you could read carefully the person I was responding to wasn’t the OP (and must have deleted their comment). So, who’s the dumb one now? Not me.
@@whaddoyoumeme Respectfully, if you think the way you are behaving here is fine, you need to get before God. "Fools show their annoyance at once, but the prudent overlook an insult." - Proverbs 12:16. "Love those who hate you, and pray for those who persecute you." - Matthew 5:44. "Love suffers long and is kind... love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked..." - 1 Corinthians 13:4-5.
Thank you for making this video, honestly this part of the bible was something I've always struggled with and I'm so grateful you helped clarify so much of it for me. Thank you again 😊
Doesn't change the fact that the Bible absolutely does support slavery. You guys can make excuses all you want to but the Bible still supports it you can get the f*** over ot
Another thing is a certain verse. I don't remember it, but it was in the assorted laws in Judges I believe. It literally said, if a servant of your neighbor flees to you. Feed him, give him rest, and lodge him. It literally tells you to protect them from their "owner".
Tecnically he could argue moral realism and christianity are incompatible IF moral realism where true, but the way he says it in the video seems to indicate that he belives some sort of objective morality, ironically if his argument against slavery suceeds, it would be an argumemt against moral subjectivism
@@incredulouspasta3304 Thanks for the reference link. I suppose this is also the verse he had in mind. I'll start by clarifying a few things. First, Leviticus 25 was written to the Jews of the day. Any law, ritual, or suggestion should be known to the reader, that it applies only to the Jews of that era. Second, I'd point out, with the coming of the Messiah, there was a new covenant made to replace the old. That's not to say we should ignore the OT. However, to object to a policy that is not even sanctioned today due to the new covenant would be an error. Lastly, if the Bible did say, "Thou shalt not have slaves", what would people do? Nothing. The Bible already tells us: 1) Not to kill- there are 437,000-520,000 murders in the world annually. 2) Not to steal- there are 7 million shoplifters (or 1 in 11 people) in our nation today. 3) Not to think upon a woman in lust- In 2016, 91,980,225,000 videos were watched on Pornhub. That’s 12.5 videos for every person on the planet. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate www.shopliftingprevention.org/what-we-do/learning-resource-center/statistics/ fightthenewdrug.org/by-the-numbers-see-how-many-people-are-watching-porn-today/ While I admire your desire to stop slavery, which is still going on in 2019, the type of slavery in the transatlantic slave trade was already forbidden. Exodus 21:16~ And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death. You may be telling yourself, "well that verse doesn't ban all forms of slavery". I would agree. However, it does ban the type of slavery that was preformed in the transatlantic slave trade. Your verse was specifically about Jews owning foreigners, aka strangers, as bond-servants. I'll try to explain this. Lets look at the verse in question: Lev 25:44-46 ~ Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. 45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. 46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour. The proceeding verses in Leviticus 25 outline how to treat countrymen bond-servants. We have no reason to believe that the same was not true for the foreigners in the land. The verse says, “Purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land,” (Leviticus 25:44) and these were probably people like the Hebrews who fell on hard times and were poor. Being a servant in another household was better than starving. The rights are spelled out for the Hebrews but they would also apply to the foreigners who were welcomed into the land. The people were commanded: Exodus 22:21-22 ~ Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt. Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child. Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child..” - Exodus 22:21-22 Leviticus 25:47-55 ~ And if a sojourner or stranger wax rich by thee, and thy brother that dwelleth by him wax poor, and sell himself unto the stranger or sojourner by thee, or to the stock of the stranger's family:
48 After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him: 49 Either his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or any that is nigh of kin unto him of his family may redeem him; or if he be able, he may redeem himself. 50 And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubile: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him. 51 If there be yet many years behind, according unto them he shall give again the price of his redemption out of the money that he was bought for. 52 And if there remain but few years unto the year of jubile, then he shall count with him, and according unto his years shall he give him again the price of his redemption. 53 And as a yearly hired servant shall he be with him: and the other shall not rule with rigour over him in thy sight. 54 And if he be not redeemed in these years, then he shall go out in the year of jubile, both he, and his children with him. 55 For unto me the children of Israel are servants; they are my servants whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God. The central issue here is that slavery was initiated BY the slave, NOT by the owners, DEFINITELY not by force. The passage about inheritance needs some caveats: First, the verses say “you may” pass them on to your children, not that it was automatic, necessary, expected, or standard practice. It may be that the prosperity changes could have reduced the owner’s ability to support the slave. Second, this may well refer to servants who did not want to go free as expressed in Exodus 21:5, “But if the slave declares that he loves his master, his wife, and his children and does not want to be set free,” there was a ceremony at the place of worship for declaring him to be a slave for life. There is a similar procedure described in Deuteronomy 15:16 in which a person could become a slave for life because “he may love you and your family and be content to stay.” Third, given the fact that slaves could earn money, they could buy their own freedom: “...if he be able, he may redeem himself..” - Leviticus 25:49 Conclusion As we see, the so called “biblical slavery” isn’t the kind of slavery we all aware of. The Bible condemns “forced slavery” (Exodus 21:16), but condones “voluntary slavery” for a period of time because of poverty, unless the slaves do not want to be freed (Exodus 21:5). www.comereason.org/slavery-in-the-bible.asp answeringsceptics.wordpress.com/2013/10/21/answering-leviticus-25-44-46-the-bible-condones-slavery/comment-page-1/ www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/matthew-henry-complete/leviticus/25.html
Exodus 21:20-21 New International Version 20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.
@@rtam9894 Though Historical it has great relevance today, I would venture to say vital relevance that society today is deeply lacking. Without the Word, our world we love is and will continue to spiral deeper into despair.
If you think that you've clearly never watched Alex. He pretty extensively studies religion and it's arguments and in nearly all his debates he's respectful and has good discourse with his interlocutor. I highly recommend his debate with trent horn. While it's possible he only does thing for views it seems highly unlikely due to his in depth study of theology and arguments for god.
Yea even as a Christian you can tell he's definitely trying his best. His discernment may be clouded, but he's almost always made great points that have begged good questions that in turn have strengthened my personal faith upon discovering the answers.
And then I think tom stark refuses that book in: “is god a moral compromiser.” If I recall he goes through Copans book point by point. Both are fascinating.
@@d_e_a_n I don't know if/when I could make time to read that rebuttal, but I would say I'm already skeptical in skimming through the "Scope of the Review" in that it reads like it was taken straight out of the mouth of an Islamic apologist, saying things like "Muhammad condemned the slaughter of noncombatants, women and children. Second, he embraced religious tolerance and believed that Christians, despite some theological flaws, were God’s people too, only with imperfect revelation," as well as "Muhammad sanctioned warfare only for defense against oppressors and those who sought to limit Islam’s freedom to exercise their religion." Muhammad only sanctioned defensive jihad? Give me a break. (cough, Sura 9:29, cough)
johnnythegringo88 I only read a couple chapters in it. Seemed pretty hard hitting. What I think is most likely to happen is Christians will read the one and atheists will read the other. Which isn’t great.
@@jacobitewiseman3696 truth. They had six fingers and toes and they were defilers of themselves women and children. The israelites saw them and were afraid because they were many times larger than the israelites. I find it interesting that every atheist skimmed right past all of the major details for the reasoning in having to kill or displace these various rephaim and nephilim tribes. They were burning their infants to pagan deities to boot but either way they were not God's intended "humankind." This is why we find skeletons that are much larger and human like even with cranial mass up to 30% larger but no trace of the lineage later. They were often cannibals and would grab people like they were snacksized morsels and eat them. Rob Skiba and Mike Heiser cover this subject very thoroughly and ETP covers the confiscation and destruction of the bones at the Smithsonian.
I was about to make the point about CS' blatantly contradictory moral positions when you did the same in the video. I have never been able to understand this. Atheist: there is no such thing as objective right and wrong Same atheist: Owning slaves is wrong.
Prosper Bakiny Moral subjectivism does not state that there is no right or wrong, it states that right and wrong are subjective. The statement “sadness is unpleasant” is something that *everyone* will agree on, but it’s still an opinion. It’s still subjective. The statement “slavery is bad” is the same way: any rational, modern person you speak with will agree the statement is true, and thus Alex can speak about as if it is, but it’s still subjective. There is no contradiction.
@@gcsgamingcommunity4087 the problem is with the moral subjectivist is that he claims right and wrong and good and evil are not absolute universal truths! CS has a video where it states “There is no Good” but yet he claims to be the authority on it ! Smh he’s making objective claims then so he is a moral absolutists even if he won’t admit it
@@thecarlitosshow7687 If you believe morality is objective and came from God, you ought to be able to explain why the Bible condones slavery (especially to non-Jewish slaves), although nowadays we all consider slavery to be morally unacceptable. Which is it: is slavery still morally acceptable, or did the morals regarding slavery change over time?
@@mve6182 I don’t think the Old Testament is the correct view of morality. The Old Testament was written during a time that human slavery and human sacrifice was a universal, cultural norm. Those stories are Written by the Jews about their problems, history, and religion. The Jews wrote the Old Testament so WHOS ultimately responsible for the immoral act and WHOS GOD is commanding slavery in those mythological narratives?
Had these peoples been let go by their owners the slaves would staved starved to death, life was difficult then and jobs and grocery's stores did not just exist
Oh, my dear interlocutor, you've brought up a topic that's just brimming with irony and delightful contradictions! Yes, it's truly perplexing how some Christians seem to conveniently overlook the glaring similarities between the slavery mentioned in the Old Testament and the despicable institution of the American Slave Trade. It's almost as if they're eager to downplay any discomforting comparisons. How peculiar! Now, let's revel in the delightful distinctions, shall we? In the Old Testament, we find a veritable utopia of humane servitude. After all, what could be more compassionate than owning another human being as property, right? It's like a benevolent exchange of mutual affection! The fact that slaves were often acquired through conquests and were treated as chattel with limited rights? Mere trivialities, I assure you. And let's not forget the Old Testament's countless anecdotes of slavery's tender embrace. Those heartwarming stories of forced labor, where slaves were beaten, sold, and even passed down through generations as inherited property. Oh, what a cozy, heartwarming tale of benevolence! It simply warms the cockles of my soul. But wait, there's more! In the American Slave Trade, slaves were forcibly taken from their homelands, subjected to brutal and inhumane treatment, torn apart from their families, and endured centuries of dehumanization. But clearly, that's an entirely different kind of slavery, because, you know, it happened in a different time and place. Silly me, how could I ever confuse the two? So, my dear friend, it's abundantly clear that those who argue for the stark contrast between Old Testament slavery and the American Slave Trade must possess an extraordinary talent for self-delusion. Surely, they must have access to a magical hermeneutical guidebook that allows them to selectively interpret passages and conveniently ignore uncomfortable truths. But hey, who am I to question such a masterful display of cognitive gymnastics? After all, we all know that moral relativism is the most consistent and intellectually rigorous approach. So, let us raise our glasses and toast to the charming, idyllic world of biblical servitude, where slavery is a virtue and empathy is for the weak. Cheers!
The kind of slavery that is always penned on the “pro-slavery” verses in the Bible by atheists and skeptics is the EXACT kind of slavery the Bible condemned. The race based involuntary servitude with no pay, or ANY KIND of monetary reciprocation or otherwise with land, or being released from debt. This was the kind of slavery that the Egyptians were placing upon the Israelites in the Exodus account, and for this reason God judged the Egyptians and Pharaoh, emancipating them from it.
The Bible has God telling the Israelite they could buy foreign slaves and keep them as chattel, pass them on to their children, and keep the slave's children as chattel. Are you trying to argue that tribe based involuntary servitude with no pay, or ANY KIND of monetary reciprocation or otherwise with land or being released from debt is somehow ok?
Liz D Actually servents under Jewish law weren’t treated as chattel, they were actually treated as members of the family, and given inheritance rights, not the same as the kind of race based involuntary servitude practiced in Egypt in that time.
@@TheFreedomDefender Not the foreign slaves. You need to actually read the Bible, including everything it says about slavery, and not just listen to smug apologists.
@@TheFreedomDefender Then you should know that foreign slaves were treated as chattel property, weren't paid, and weren't freed. The only difference with slavery as practiced by the Egyptians is that the foreign slaves of the Hebrews weren't supposed to die too quickly when you beat them. Why didn't you know this?
Matt Dilahunty already debunked all your Biblical pro slavery arguments. Here, I'll debunk his first argument. Willfully submitting to someone is in fact slavery when refusing to do so results in some kind of punishment and or destruction. This guy isn't as intelligent as I thought.
Not at all. They had an agreed upon arrangement, it was Jacob's idea, and even though Laban tried to cheat him several times, he walked away richer than Laban...wives, cattle, servants & money when he arrived with nothing but himself.
@@sunnyedaize1262 A slave getting richer than his old master doesn't mean he wasn't a slave. And voluntary servitude would still be classified as a slave, at least in the way the bible defines it.
@@sunnyedaize1262 you make a good point. You are perfectly stating the point of this video! Which is to say that slavery in the Bible is completely different than what you and I think of a slavery, which is usually the slavery of the Atlantic slave trade. That is the entire point of this video. Therefore, the slavery of the Bible since you don't think of it as slavery, we really should have a different word for it since you all aren't able to understand that a word can have different meaning under different context. Yet, people insist upon taking that same word knowing that it's used in a different context in the Bible, and then saying that the Bible condones slavery.
FBI 1987 it's absolutely inaccurate because the Hebrew word for servant was intentionally mistranslated as slave. I've studied this subject thoroughly just because people misinterpret it so much. Jacob hired himself to his uncle in exchange for wife and valuables. That's not even close to slavery.
"Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."- Matthew 22 kjv
@@indicajane4721 Except it's not slavery. If God was an enslaver, he would be more like Poseidon or Zeus from Greek Mythology, making us create statues of them. He'd also appear more on Earth and whip you everytime you disobeyed. God is the opposite of an enslaver.
@@davidnewhart2533 so why did god never once say it is not right to own people, Have ways to trap people in servitude and not once say it was wrong? What type of god does that?
@@justarandomcatonyoutube1729 who are you referring to as a fool? Maybe take a moment and see what is within your own spirit before making such statements on the internet. I hope you read the Bible cover to cover and see how or if you reflect it’s contents. Good day to you. I have no ill towards you.
Mutantcy1992 If a Skeptic was consistent they would likely say in his truth or opinion he is innocent or that he may not even be real tbh Skeptic is to vague a term.
@@Jambuc829 Guess you don't have any concrete standards of what is morally wrong or right then. Whatever I do; even if it involves taking others' lives intentionally, I can declare it right since 'sin' doesn't exist.
@@Vincent-jb8us are you telling me that you only believe murdering others is wrong because God will punish you because of it. Empathy does not need religion.
@@kleptomania2631 That is totally an ignorant statement. God declares murder as sin/wrong and understood by humans for the same reason why the secular Goverment would make a law against murder. Not mainly because you'll be punished if you do it. Going against such law, can reasonably, of course, make the secular goverment punish the offender. Why? because the offender *violated the lives of others* , therefore, it's *wrong* and *unlawful* . That is literally God's principle applied by the government. God who has the empathy to declare such act as wrong in the first place, gave humans the ability to empathize in order to understand that principle.
@@Vincent-jb8us I think Kleptomania's point is that it doesn't need to come from God for us as a society to consider it true that murder is wrong. It was considered so before Christianity and before Judaism, it did not require God for the act to be considered unanimously by humanity, a bad thing to do. The difference here is that atheists believe that all morality is subjective, this does not mean irrelevant. Just because we don't have a universal unwavering set of objective laws doesn't mean we don't have our own set of subjective laws that shift and change as our society develops its understanding of subjective morality so that people are treated properly.
If you go to Allen Parr’s original 2 year old video about this series of responses, all you will see in the comments is CosmicSkeptic’s fans being highly disrespectful to Allen because they all firmly believe he’s blindly supporting slavery. Making sure to put emphasis on the fact that he’s a black man, and I’m sure a fair number of them didn’t actually watch Allen’s full video, let alone read the Bible. I, and my colleagues have zero issues with rational atheists who simply have a skeptical perspective on magic omnipotent beings beyond space and time that created everything. To them, it’s a fairy tale to comfort people. I’ve always been taught to hate sin but love everyone, including my enemies. Being a non believer does not make you my enemy anyways. One of the nicest human beings I’ve ever known was my boss at one point but he was Muslim. I absolutely loved working with him. My point is that I can only ask for mutual respect. I love you as a person but please don’t rest in an arm chair belittling me because I believe in a higher power rather than everything being created from nothing without cause or reason.
And we ask the same of Christian's. But most as in fundamentalist Christians try ramming religion down peoples throats. Being a gay man it's none of yours or your gods business what I do with my life. But christians get into politics and try to make laws and tell me how I should live my life! Your God would have me executed if you were to follow the laws of the Bible! 🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🐻🐻🐻🐻🐻🐻🐻🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
I really hope the cosmic sceptic got to see this video👀 Thanks a lot for this video! It really explains and truly puts into context this very controversial topic.
That is well said ....what Greater love is this for a God to give up his only begotten son he who knew no sin become sin for us ...for we have no good in us, and for a righteous God to die for us to save us from his wrath. I gladly will be a Slave to Christ...the biblical meaning....the gospel is beautiful to the sinner ....beginning slaves to righteousness.
You’re right. His point involves comparing rulers and law-enforcers as tyrannical slave masters, which he was referring to God as being “the world’s first taskmaster according to the Bible”.
These people kill me when they apply 2020 morality to past civilizations! Slavery was an acceptable practice! The people writing The Bible were speaking and using analogy of what they knew!
Bad example. God's morality does not bend with time. The distinction of what is a slave then versus our conception of one now is important though. God condemned involuntary slavery.
@@TheDapperSwindler yeah I’m very confused on what “voluntary” slavery is. I like the way Matt puts it. “Would you be my slave under the rules of Exodus 21?” (Meaning that I can beat you and as long as you don’t die in a couple days, I am not to be punished) If you answer no, you see the issue with this rule and we don’t have to skip around the issue and say “well that’s how it was back then” no, that is your God in fact allowing slavery. A very simple commandment saying “you shall not own people as property” would have sufficed. The Bible does the exact opposite of this. If they answer yes, well we have nothing else to talk about as I do not want to engage with people who believe anyone should be owned as property. Debtor/Criminal/POW it doesn’t matter.
@@oscarhunter3864 There was such a thing as voluntary slavery for fellow Hebrews and resident aliens, which is the debt slavery Christians know and love....but there was also chattel slavery for slaves from surrounding nations or people taken as captives of war. Christians often try to dress up the former as the latter and pretend it was _all_ debt slavery, which just isn't true. Though for the record, debt slavery would still be wrong anyway.
Cosmicskeptic is giving you a bad scenario. It's like he is saying God is someone who is pointing a gun at you and says "Believe in me or you will die.' You have the choice to reject it or accept it but if you reject, you will suffer. But that is not correct. It is like a judge telling you not to murder because it is wrong and then he tells you you will die if you choose to do it. Or imagine yourself hanging of a cliff(imagine you were trying to catch something(sin) and you fell) and then God comes and tells you. Believe in me or you will die(you will fall), you chose sin and you deserve judgement and you chased it and fell. He comes and he gives you his hand. Grab it as fast as you can.
well, who decided the rules? we didn't. what's the worst the judge can do? capital punishment in some countries. what's the worst god WILL do ? Revelations 21:8 "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” which shows it is more than just separation from god but "Fiery lake of burning sulfur" Matthews 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” which shows is is "eternal punishments" all this for "sexually immoral" (gays, lesbians, people who have sex outside of marriage) and "the unbelieving" (atheists, Muslims, any other religion), we do not find any of the things mentioned above as immoral in our society, defiantly not enough to have any punishment for it, but god will do : " consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur." " go away to eternal punishment". These are rules that god came up with that nobody in their right mind in civilized Scotties will believe in .
@@ethanellis465, if you understand how intricate and complex the human body is and think everything magically came together out of cosmic soup then you still have a problem. 😉 Love you too, hope you find Truth, it is a life changing experience.
thank you so much for this video I saw cosmic skeptics video and felt confused because I know that god doesn't approve slavery but I also thoought his video made sense and then I found this and it cleared everything up, keep up the good content brotha
he doesnt quite address it properly.. He continuously repeats the idea that it was all consensual. It was not. The bible says you may buy your slaves from neighboring countries, but later says that Hebrews could be the type of slaves hes referencing. These people who were not Israelites or Hebrews did not have the option. He conveniently leaves out the verses in this video where moses commanded by god tells the men to slaughter the men of the enemy tribe, kill the wives, and take the virgins for themselves. we can only assume the horrors and sexual abuse these women would of had to endure. They did not get a choice to go with the men or not, they were taken as slaves. Furthermore he acts as though they were treated just as workers paying off debt, but in the bible you are allowed to beat them as much as you want as long as they can get up after A DAY OR TWO. these points were not addressed one can only assume strategically.
@@bluelagoon228 Yeah, I like how he characterizes the prisoners of war as "bad guys" -- I guess it never occurred to him that they might have been just farming their land when these Bible-believers came in from other countries with weapons and offered them the "choice" of slavery or death?
Christian God: “Repent of your sins and accept My Son whom I lovingly sent as the atonement to get you into Heaven with me to enjoy an eternity of perfect happiness and joy, or face my holy judgment for the sins you committed in this Earthly life.”
@@Nameless-pt6oj Put another way, "live the way my son did when I sent him to satiate my bloodlust in your place, or I will blame you for everything you've ever done wrong and send you to a cosmic torture chamber for the rest of time".
When you actually read the Bible you find that the description of a “slave” does not fit the our understanding of a slave. The original Hebrew word translated as slave, should have been translated as indentured servant or debtor. Chatel slavery is punishable by death in the Torah. In fact, an employer must pay the workers at the end of the day!
@@Jambuc829 they don’t even realize that there was no trinity in original Christianity, the god of the OT was left behind for Christ, who was considered the highest god of love. They aren’t even worshiping the correct god lmao
@@arthuranderson21 YHWH, the angel of YHWH and the Holy Spirit are mentioned in the Old Testament, go read something, I won’t school you, just look it up “holy trinity in the Old Testament”
This is completely a hot mess. The Bible is completely clear regarding God's position on owning slaves from foreign regions. It is completely allowed and the harsh treatment of these foreign purchased slaves is seen as the right of the Master. All of these theological gymnastics fall short. This is crystal clear.
The Bible is clear that you can purchase slaves from surrounding nations, own them for life, pass them as an inheritance, and treat them harshly. The Bible also makes it clear that all children born of slaves are the possessions of the slave owner permanently. Debt slavery amongst fellow Jews is a completely different topic. You can't sugarcoat the slavery text... It's impossible to make Biblical slavery palatable. It's Evil and the Bible clearly gives the thumbs up on the subject. Just be honest and take the Bible for what it says.
Your analogy of your position as father and the authoritative figure over your children is simply not the same as God's position, for when your children move out you will not harm them for doing so (indeed, the children would have to move out eventually, wouldn't they?). Also, though you stated you did not want to Romanticize Israelite slavery, you unfortunately still did. I will not deny the laws regarding Hebrew slaves were more lenient, but let's keep in mind that *only* the Hebrew slaves are treated more leniently. The pagan slaves, on the other hand, are still treated cruelly and like any slave would be in ancient societies. Indeed, the allowance of slavery within Hebrew law should make one think that this is merely the contrivance of men to commit whatsoever they desire rather than being an institution propagated by God. As CosmicSkeptic pointed out, when God is against something he does not allow it. As it is, he allowed slavery. Therefore, it should stand to reason that God is not against it, rather instead promotes it. On a side-note: Christian apologist videos like this remind me of Muslim apologists trying to justify pedophilia. This just goes to show that ancient man-made books should not be depended on for morality. They are worthless; indeed worse than worthless for they are instead a detriment to society. Slavery is a wrongful practice and I shall see no justification for it at all -- regardless if it is willing or not.
First off (as others have said) I appreciate your respectfulness. However I do have a problem with your analogies. Getting a speeding ticket and being tortured for eternity are two completely different things. I don't think that's a fair analogy.
Thanks for your comment! Perhaps I could have made it more clear, but the analogy had to do with the concept of choice, not the content of the choices in the analogies. That’s why I prefaced it by saying “think about the logic being used here”. Anyways, thanks for your comment. Glad to have you here!
@@whaddoyoumeme Logic being used is not the same as well I'm afraid. In general state-imposed laws are not comparable because we live in democratic societies and have influence over what the laws are, and can change them should they be deemed unfair or harmful. For speeding limits specifically the limits are there to prevent harm, to road users themselves as well as the surrounding infrastructure and people. God imposed the laws himself as the final authority, with no say from mankind. And while some of the rules he imposes could be construed as beneficial to mankind, straight up "believe or go to hell" is not one of those. And there is of course the proportionality of the punishment to be considered. Being ordered to do something or die at the whim of an absolute monarch would be more apt comparison, although mathematically speaking any infinite punishment no matter how insignificant (and hell is not described as insignificant at all) would still be infinitely more severe than even the harshest finite punishment, so not even sure about that. Your further analogy, with prison and "slave owner" taking in the cost of "slave" actions on himself also doesn't work, for that you'd need two different entities - "slave owner" and rule creator. If they're one and the same, you're back at the absolute monarch. And the bad things "slave" did are not even "objective" crimes like destruction of property, just not following his monarchs whims.
So person wants nothing to do with God in this life time but thinks they can stand Him for all eternity? Doing His will forever? If you are not saved & given a new heart heaven will be hell for unbelievers, might as well go to hell.
@@ferzinhaN Agreed. Based on their arguments, I don't even get why atheists have an issue with being eternally separated from God (what Hell is). They could actually seek Him for themselves, but they don't, and then they make it seem as if us Christians have to provide them with evidence of God, when God has made it *_very_* clear that He appears to those who have faith in Him (even faith as small as a mustard seed), and are coming from a place of humility and honesty. If any atheist, at this point in time, isn't willing to make an attempt to seek God in His terms, I don't know what to tell them. I do pray for them, and I realize that God can absolutely work through us Christians and that all good things are possible through Him, but He also gave us free will so, at a certain point, the atheists themselves have to be willing to humble themselves and submit to God's will for their lives.
Proverbs explicitly justify beating of slaves. Just like spare the rod spore the child. Proverbs 29:19-21 NIV Servants cannot be corrected by mere words; though they understand, they will not respond. [21] A servant pampered from youth will turn out to be insolent.
12:45 Cosmic Sceptic is wrong about divorce. Although the Bible doesn’t condone divorce, it does allow for it in certain situations such as a cheating spouse. I wish he would have done more research
The protections only applied to male jews, for non-jews and women it was open season. If a stranger owed money he would be slave until debt is paid or until the Jubilee, Jubilee is every 50 YEARS... Go read Leveticus 25, especially verse 44-46: ‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.' What don't you understand about ''they will become your proprety'', ''bequeath them to your children as inherited proprety'' and ''slaves for life''?
Great video and explanation! Don’t forget how God explicitly states in Exodus 21:16: “Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnappers possession.”
The Bible says slavery is bad for Hebrews. For people that are not children of Israel, they should be treated as property and inherited. “Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly. “ As far as the passage he referred when comes to kidnapping. “Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession.” Is condeming the act of kidnapping a fellow Israelite and his possessions aka (slave).
18 The sons of Noah who came out of the ark were Shem, Ham and Japheth. (Ham was the father of Canaan.) 19 These were the three sons of Noah, and from them came the people who were scattered over the whole earth. 20 Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded[a] to plant a vineyard. 21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. 22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father naked and told his two brothers outside. 23 But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father’s naked body. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father naked. 24 When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him, 25 he said, “Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers.” 26 He also said, “Praise be to the Lord, the God of Shem! May Canaan be the slave of Shem. 27 May God extend Japheth’s[b] territory; may Japheth live in the tents of Shem, and may Canaan be the slave of Japheth.” If Noah was the chosen of God, and he enslaved his Hebrew grandson Canaan, does that suggest that God supported Slavery? Also, when it was Ham who saw Noah naked, why was it Canaan who was enslaved to Japheth?
Thank you for this video. The slave "problematic" of the bible seems to be one those so called anachronism. One of the central law of "slavery" in the bible is the Jubilee year (every 7year) where all "slave" are to be set free. Also, man stealing was punishable by death, even owning one. I see slavery in Israel, more as a forced labor that double down as a way to avoid surpopulation in prison.
Women and slaves from other countries aren’t set free on year 7 though neither are children born during that period. And if the man wants to stay with his family he has to stay a servant….
I think you both have good points. I'm honestly more into economics and societal issues than religion, so I have no horse in this, but I am an atheist, and I think the bible could be pretty messed up in some regards. However, I have to agree with you here.
Yes I agree with you. As a Christian myself I find it hard to take in some parts of the bible without understanding cultural context and even literary devices used by the authors that wrote the book. So much blood shed and violence, especially in the old testament. This seems like a stupid analogy, but when I was watching the Borgias on Netflix it was really hard to take in some scenes because the producers decided to create the series in a manner that was accurate to the time setting, and their moral standards are different from ours (though I believe that Gods standards of morality is unchanging and is always going to be different from what the norm is in a given time). With this said, after reading and analyzing these violent parts of the bible I started noticing a glimmer of God's grace and mercy throughout these hard to swallow parts. I'm still learning the bible and am no expert by any means, but for now what I gather is that all the blood shed and sacrifices at the temples were not enough to wash away our sins-only by the blood of Messiah on the cross do we have salvation. Additionally some parts of the old testament also gives and insight of what it is like when man is left to their own devices, society apart from God = chaos and downfall of man. Long response to your comment, but basically agreeing with you that some parts are 😬😬
No one else has mentioned this at least not that I read in the comments. Anyone wanting to know the REAL slavery read the 1st 20 chapters of Exodus that was the REAL slavery God was actually rescuing the Hebrews from.
At 12:50 - 12:57 Alex's argument is self refuting. Exodus 21:16 says "Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession." Therefore, the bible is against slavery and yet it recognizes it for what it is in its day. The bible simply gives parameters to avoid abuses. His characterization of it in ancient times is very simplistic.
@@vejeke *That's where the bible talks about kidnapping people. Not about buying slaves* The verse I cited, Exodus 21:16 says "whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession". So it directly addresses human trafficking for the purpose of selling or auctioning off humans for the purpose of slavery. This is what the bible says is prohibited. The verse you cited is referring to people selling themselves for the purpose of work or perhaps as part of a punishment of crime in the surrounding nations. The idea that the Bible promotes and rejects it runs counter to logical thought. Remember, the Israelites were slaves in Eqypt and it would make no sense for the bible to affirm this and reject it at the same time. Again, it is dealing with the issue of the time, providing boundaries against it's abuses.
Amazed by the arrogance of atheists that "outsmarted" the Christianity presented to them in Sunday school and now somehow think they know more about Christian apologetics than Christians who have dedicated their lives to studying the Bible and learning everything there is to know about it... Note: cosmic skeptic is not guilty of this, many of his followers are though.
This idea that God forever tortures those who reject Him is incorrect. God simply gives people over to their own ends if they choose to live eternity without Him. Imagine forever living in one's own selfishness, greed, sloth, lusts, pride, hatred, shame, hopelessness etc. That is hell, separation from God and love.
as ever it depends on which passages you want to pick out as "the truth' and then how to interpret them. Most christians just interpret the bible to what they already believe, or want to believe.
No dont get it twisted, your god does torture people. He created hell and he created the system in which people end up there. Thats the equivalent of saying "I didnt shoot you, my gun did"
This is easily one of the best rebuttals to the slavery issue I've read! These atheists never seem to have heard about a guy named MOSES who was instructed by God to tell the Hebrews they were to NOT do as the Egyptians did for the very reason of the cruelty they endured! Also, slavery is NOT totally abolished. Believe it or not a judge can FORCE you to do LABOR as a means of correction. An absolutely fine example is the Amarillo Prison! Offenders can get a little extra sunshine if they work in a field under the guidance of prison guards on horses. Make no mistake, it's hard work but it's so rewarding for them because not only do they get the positive feed back, they get a reduced sentence. Not to mention the produce they grow is TOP NOTCH and often beats local grocery stores!
One thing that needs to be clear is that you are lying. It was not voluntary. Chattel slaves could be captured, bought involuntarily, and bred into captivity. If you have to lie to protect your beliefs, it is time to get new beliefs.
07:09 I apologise if I am misunderstanding you but I fail to see how consequences for speeding are comparable to going to hell. Spending eternity being tormented is not the same as paying for a speeding ticket or spending finite time in jail.
I get an uncomfortable feeling in my gut whenever I see this young guy. The Lord can reach the darkest most hostile soul. I'm praying for those who still refuse to see the truth. The days are short.
Even though I am not convinced by what you had to say. I still think that this is a well structured video and good response. So I am giving a thumbs up.
I wholly agree. Just watched the video and (at least on the surface), every premise (for the most part) seems to follow. I haven't sat down and looked for fallacies in it yet. However, I'm glad that I got a theist's perspective on it. I'm awaiting Alex's retort to this. (hope he has one)
Dude, Deuteronomy 20 has god explicitly commanding to take slaves (offer peace and if they accept, make them your slaves). And to the culture of the time, if your god can command that you don’t eat shellfish, he can command that you don’t own people as property (Leviticus 25:44-46).
I have just finished an argument with a man who was not only ignorant and in denial, he was also too cowardly to keep his comment thread up, “20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! 21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and shrewd in their own sight!” Isaiah 5:20-21 He called me evil yet insulted me without reason, direction, or evidence , he called evil good, and called good evil.
Context makes all the difference. Edit: Oh wow I’m so glad you brought up his subjectivism, I always find that puzzling and amusing, nevertheless very worthy side note.
Zynn Findo Subjectivism undermines morality all together...besides cosmic skeptic has already gone on record admitting that he doesn’t believe in right or wrong, Good or evil. That’s why it’s all so puzzling.
Life was Given to us how does it undermine ‘morality all together’ exactly? There is a robust system which does not rely on absolutes. That is all I have ever heard him say, no moral absolutes. This does not mean he does not believe in the concepts of good or bad etc or their application colloquially.
Zynn Findo I would argue that it’s self defeating, Subjectivism entails that the truth to moral claims resides only in the mind of the one making the claim, for example John thinks x is moral, Caleb thinks x is immoral, nether of them can be wrong about what they believe because the truth to these statements is affirmed by the one making the claim , under subjectivism that would be themselves. It reduces good and evil to human conventions with no grounding to the external world. Also I think cosmic has a video titled there is no “good” or maybe that’s in the thumbnail pic idk it’s been awhile but i do know he’s argued against Sam Harris’s position of moral realism as well as having some back and fourths with rationality rules whom he disagrees with.
Life was Given to us I am not saying I agree with him. But it is certainly reasonable to argue that morals function on the level of societal and inter-personal interactions. This doesn’t mean it’s not connected to the external world, actions have consequences, it just means that these concepts do not need a to be bestowed on us by some other consciousness. These constructs are easily explained by the sharing of space and the potential conflict surrounding that.
Man it’s so interesting like honestly. Both sides suck at explaining their case. Thank you for making this video. I’d love to talk with all 3 of you lol. You did a good job of cleaning up what the other Christian was saying. He was lacking SO much information. Which is why the skeptic should bring up so many questions with so little understanding on the topic because of the lack of information that was shared by the Christian guy. If we Christians myself included could explain things in a way that people understand who did lemonade a lot of these questions that arise. Which is why I appreciate you going in and answering step questions kind of it’s more like you’re a debating in proving them wrong versus answering the questions which is what they actually need his understanding to calm their minds and abrasion towards the Bible.
So, he's complaining that he has to choose between following God and going to hell, as if both options were bad options. I wonder why he regards following and obeying God as a bad option. He has to prove why following God is a bad option if he wants to accuse God of offering us no good option.
You have to prove why following God is good dude. He already proved why it's a bad option. Lmao slavery. Women seen as property. Genocide. Ect. This list goes on.
@@ReformedThe thou shall not steal, do not do unto others what you do not want others to do unto you, love thy neighbors as you love thyself, give help to the poor etc, thous shall not kill, thou shall not make false testimony., And the List goes on and on
He actually ignores scripture. The Old Testament talks about regulations of divorce and Jesus talks about how these were only given for the hardness of people’s hearts. He ignores this
"...the faulty assumption that (slavery) wasn't consensual and there wasn't benefit to both parties involved..." Given that Lev 25:44-45 tells the reader to buy their slaves from the heathens around them, the claim that slavery was consensual in these cases is untenable.
"These guys weren't slaves, they were prisoners..." Are you for real? Man are you playing semantics in the most disingenuous way. Yes, they were prisoners and those prisoners were, in every sense of the word, slaves. They weren't free, they were traded and sold, their children and wives were slaves and they were inherited as slaves by their masters. They were treated as property in every way possible and the bible, and therefore God, condoned it. After the invasion of Iraq, if we brought all our Iraqi prisoners back along with their wives and children, sold them in auctions, branded them, and put them to work, and allowed them to be inherited as part of the family household, would you be ok with that??? That's some damn loophole you've got there.
I think you are missing vital context to what is going on. Let's imagine your a Ukrainian husband and a Russian solider comes to your town and commits war crimes against the people in your town and against your family. The solider gets captured. So you have several choices available to you. 1. Let the solider which isn't going to go down very well 2. Kill the solider but he is no longer a threat so you would end up killing in cold blood 3. Force the solider to repay the harm he has done though hard labour to yourself and the community. Is option 3 a form of slavery. Yes sort of, you are forcing the guy to do labour for you wether they want to or not but you are not wrong in saying that he owes a debt to you and your community and that it should be repaid
@@pgpython... You might want to actually read your Bible. The Hebrews were taking someone else's land because their God told them they could have it. Cause God does that stuff... a lot. So that makes the Hebrews the bad guys in your analogy. But even if that were correct... (it isn't) We have this... Leviticus 25:44-46? 44 As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves. 45 You may also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you and from their families who are with you who have been born in your land; they may be your property. 46 You may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property. These you may treat as slaves, but as for your fellow Israelites, no one shall rule over the other with harshness. Which blatantly contradicts this young apologist claims here. 🤔
@@unwantedbs2571 you might want to read the bible more carefully because if you did you would find that Moses expressly condemned kidnapping for the purpose of slavery under punishment of death. Its fummy how you omitted that isn't it. The only wars of conquest Isreal engaged in was in overruning the land of cannan. Do you even know anything about the Caanaites. Probably not but lets just say they would make the Aztecs look tame. The archaeological evidence we have on them is something that would make you feel seriously sick.
@@K1ngs4NDWR3TCH3S lol nonsense. A magic man that we can't see was bored and poofed all into existence. We dont know, therefore god did it, right brother?
Could any reasonable person read the bible and conclude there are rules by which one can own slaves? Yes. The idea that the God of Abraham requires youtubers to explain the Bible is beyond arrogance.
My parents , as he described an example with himself and kids, same when I was under 18 my parents had a say so of many life CHoices made before becoming adult but it wasn’t forced , it was guidance and wisdom passed down from their experiences in life as they only want the best for me. I had a respectful fear and love for my parents, did chores around the house even when in school and working a full time job I still helped my parents with various jobs/chores around the house. My parents gave me life ( along w allowance also) , a roof over my head , a loan for me to get a car. So what I did in my younger adolescent years was paid back ultimately however it was up to myself to realize this ! God also does not force you too do anything outside of your free will and right too choose that he gave us in the beginning times (Genesis) . Fearing ,loving, and serving(being a servant) to God Almighty is completely different thenslavery as we know it today!
I was eagerly waiting for min. 15.07 At that point a cosmic knock out took place! Please don't forget to remember them this all the time. My first clarification question for Atheists, agnostics and skeptics is "Why is it wrong?" Very good video!
Slavery is wrong because it allows for someone to be treated as property. Oh wait, I mean they *are* property. According to the bible, it's ok to beat your slave, so long as you don't take out an eye/tooth (Exodus 21:26-27), and as long as your slave doesn't die within a day (Exodus 21:20-21)
Dan D. Lion If you are an atheist or agnostic you can't account for objective truth or for objective morality. According to the atheistic worldview why should I care if slavery harms or not?
@@rocio8851 I can account for objective truth using science. Y'know, shit that can be *observed.* As for objective morality, that comes from the fact that we are animals, and as such, derive our sense of morality from animals.
I find it interesting that people who are so opposed of slavery, turn a blind eye to the actual slavery today in other nations that make their lives so much easier. Most of the things he owns were made by slaves. So by his own morality, he only believes in corporate slavery, just not individuals owning slaves…well except in Arab and African nations…and for rich people who won’t let their illegal help leave. That’s what he is ok with.
I find it interesting that Christians engage in the most stretched form of what-about-ism in order to avoid facing the fact that their scriptures condone slavery.
There are two broad categories of atheists. There are those like me who don't care what you believe so long as you don't force your religion on me, and there are teenage atheists who just discovered atheism yesterday and think it's something cool and original they've got to ram down everybody's throat.
Most TH-cam atheists fall into the second category, and they piss off other atheists as much as anybody else. They're the sort of kids who watch a few Christopher Hitchens videos and think they're philosophers. It's cute at first - you can tell it's the first time they're exercising independent thought from their parents - but it gets old pretty quick when you've heard the same crack about the Flying Spaghetti Monster for the 99th time.
Yes it is .
so our father in heaven is a slave owner in atheism? they always make fools out of themselves with arguments.
Comment Freely Yup
I’ve been saying myself lol your like Apostate Prophet.
Bull Eye!! 🎯 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Slave owners don't give their lives to save their slaves....
@LiL Speng Christ willingly gave his life for you my friend, he bought you with his blood because he loves you, it's a gift ...but it's your choice... follow him and be saved.
@LiL Speng He took the penalty for our sins, if we are willing to turn from evil and follow him.
@LiL SpengWe are weak, none of us are or can be sinless, God came in the flesh and was tempted as we are daily. Following Christ is turning from the slavery of sin with the help of the holy spirit.
Many will choose the rewards of sin in this world... and we are free to do so until the appointed time.
@LiL Speng If God, his message, and Jesus are myths, you might have a point.
What say you ?
@LiL Speng Not a nation on earth throughout history didn't have man made laws, justice, and punishment.
How then is the author of all nations unjust punishing those nations or people who break Gods laws ?
God the only "slaver" that takes you ( the slave ) and makes you heir to His Kingdom.
@@ThePurpleGoose023 He does not torture you. And we are the only ones who benefit from the presence of God. The whole point of His work in our lives is to get us out hell not into hell. He canot force you into haven or to love Him by rejecting Him you chose hell . If you dont whant to be with Him He will respect your path so much He wont force Himself on you.
@@ThePurpleGoose023 were in all Biblie God uses hell as a treath ?
Hell was created for Satan and his angels but apperenly you think " God is mean because He is just and punishes sin" peploe go to prison for crimes they comit on their in free will but dont whant to be there or repent of their mestakes they even use them as decoretaions.
The same is with peploe who are in hell.
@@ThePurpleGoose023 the whole point of free will is for us to chose were we whant to spend our eternal life with God in Haven or away from God in hell.
@@ThePurpleGoose023 free will = risck of rebelion
The sin of rejecting your creator is what sends peploe to hell not just that but allso that yes for stelling, idoletry, homosexuali, killing and so on. Romans 6:25 and John 3:16
Like i said God does not send peploe to hell just for that but allso that they keep living in sin they dont repent of it . Haven is a place that is pure.
Hell was NEVER ment for us but for Satan and his angels . God is just and Holy He has to see that justucie is done but is allso rich in love and mercy and He gives you a a way to be saved. Just why i wander why do you refuse to give me any verse that shows God threading some one with hell. For i see and read only warnigs.
@@ThePurpleGoose023 God whants free creatures that love Him freeley not forcely.
Although I am an atheist, you handled this situation VERY well. Very respectful.
Sorry for you that you are an Atheist. Christ is coming soon and you still an Atheist. Look at the State of the World in chaos. I would advise you to go to Amazing Facts TV on You Tube by Doug Batchelor for Spritual guidance and judge for yourself.
Donna Caesar-Roberts Sorry, I didn’t come here to be changed into something I’m obviously not. I came here to compliment someone.
Yolo Boie no.
Stan Tomura Shigaraki God loves you man. Seek him with a genuine humble heart and he will show himself to you. I promise.
Chewy Postman no
Exodus 21:16 says, “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.”
@Sven Andersson If it was the slavery y’all were talking about, I’m pretty sure the slave in the Bible wouldn’t say ‘I love my master, my wife, my children, *I don’t want to go free.’* (Exodus 21:5). If they were being tortured unjustly, & terrorized
"Exodus 21:16 says, “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.”"
But whoever legally buys a man from another man... that's fine.
"Don't steal people" is the same as "don't steal property"; where is the exortation to not OWN people?
Whoever steals a man from someone else! That’s what it means. How can you steal something that does not belong to anyone?
@@unturbe Exactly - the crime is _stealing_ slaves, not _owning_ them.
@@JMUDoc It's potentially also referring to stealing free men and pressing them into slavery - however even then, that's still different from buying someone from a surrounding nation or taking a foreigner as spoils of war. Those could still be done under certain circumstances.
Exodus 21:16 is a liferaft lots of apologists like to cling onto to argue the Bible is anti-slavery, but this only really works if you ignore other verses like Leviticus 25:44-46.
@Saigie Exodus 21:5 also says that if the slave has a wife and children, those are to remain with the master. So the slave could go free, but they'd be leaving their family behind in the process. Is that something you think a husband/father would do lightly? Or at all, in many cases?
How are we a slave of God when we chose to disobey Him from the very beginning in freedom?
because you end up in hell if you disobey him.
Splagchnizomai disobey our parents=getting our ps4 taken away or some shit.
Disobey god=torture not for 1 year or 2 but all of eternity, which means forever literally non stop torture. I can’t stress enough how evil this and your god is
@Splagchnizomai since god is oh so powerful why did he make us able to make such mistakes in the first place? your god is weird
@@Suzumebachigr if we didn't then the athiests would kill each other as morality is "objective" to them.
We have cops who punish you if you choose to murder or steal,I bet you find that very opressing and want freedom yea ?
@@Suzumebachigr ur last comment lmao u sound so stupid now , god gave us free will that's why he's NOT a slave owner. You are running around in circles by now lol
i am an atheist and I have my reasons why(i hope u can respect that) but i really like your channel and character.
you seem like a genuinely nice guy
@Random Person What do you mean you don't believe atheism exists?
@Random Person Atheism - disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
Do you have a different definition?
@Random Person Yeah, I fit that definition. Although I do have an affinity for Spinoza's god. But out of convenience yes I am what I believe to be an atheist.
@Random Person It could be a true statement, but I can't say for certain.
@Random Person The trouble with classifications of what I'll call "irreligion", is given that we don't have any official authorities (people or pieces of writing) there is really no one to draw particular lines and as a result there is a lot of confusion on all sides. My definition of atheism or some variation of it, is the definition I see most generally used and it definitely applies to me. I don't know if god exists therefore I lack belief in god therefore I am an atheist by definition. If agnosticism is not knowing, then I guess I am both an atheist and an agnostic. I've found agnosticism has a particular stigma about it that when admitted it's used to nullify the agnostics opinion, they say "oh well you're just an agnostic, you admit you don't know anything" as if that is a valid counterpoint to a legitimate point, so I try to steer clear of the term. Atheism obviously has it's own stigma but working through that is certainly better than just being ignored.
Some people see atheism and agnosticism as on the same spectrum where you have to be one or the other. Whereas others see agnosticism as a subset of atheism where you have weak/agnostic atheism (me) and strong/gnostic atheism (I know there is no god), which I think is a better system. Using the second classifications I'm assuming you're saying that gnostic atheism doesn't exist? I would like to hear what you mean by that. Thank you for your reasonableness, I'm basically on the other side of the world but I hope to hear back from you.
I’ve been reading the OT chronologically for the past two years, so far I have not seen the Bible supporting slavery. God didn’t allow multiple wives, his ideal plan is one wife, but God still made rules for those that had multiple wives.
Im so blessed that I get to be a “slave” for Jesus.
Read Deut 29.10-12. God through the Hebrews buys the slave, to set them free. It's the intent of the entire bible. Christ paid the price for those in bondage and set them free, physically and spiritually. He was evangelizing Himself in the old, when He told them to go out to the heathen. Gal 3.28 is the same as leviticus 19.34,19.18,Deut 10.19. No more classism or racism or gender inequality. That was the allure of the Abrahamic God.
@@Carlos-fl6ch and what is just there? Deut 29.10-15 is God doing exactly what the title says...what Christ literally fulfilled in the new.
@@Carlos-fl6ch that's what I'm telling you bud. Back up and you will see. The intent and message is...God is God of not just the Jews, but the entire world. That's the intent, and always has been. God through the Hebrews, buys the slave..the Gentile to set them free. Deut29.10. Read that. Permanent slaves are bound by debt...so we all are. It must be paid for.
@@Carlos-fl6ch Well...what specifically do you mean? Exodus? 21 right? I hear those that say Ex21.21 is a sort of license to beat a slave. But you do agree firstly, that they are not forced servitude right? Ex21.16 is forced, against their will. Anything like Egypt was condemned. The Hebrews were forced into slavery there. So, what's left, but willingly selling oneself into bondage...debt bondage. That has legalities involved. The debt does have to be paid. And there are multiple examples of bondservants freed once the debt was paid. There are many scriptures guaranteeing protection from mistreatment...Deut 23.15-16 refuge cities, freed. Ex21.25 same...for mistreatment like losing a tooth from some apostate Hebrew beating them. Freed. They were protected by avenging laws...death for death, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, stripe for stripe etc. Ex21.18-19 was assault against a non servant. The monetary fines were they had to pay all medical, room and board, lost wages etc til thoroughly healed. The apostate Hebrew assaulting the servant in vv 20-21 had "no punishment" because they were already paying room and board, medical, and lost wages etc. The penalties from the avenging laws waited those two days...for severity of assault. That means the servant could very well pay back stripe for stripe. OR trade it in for total freedom, debt cancellation. Ex21.25. It's not at all condoning beatings. The pressure was on the Hebrew not oppression of the servants. Read Jeremiah 34.It's what happens when the Hebrews broke those equality laws...lev19.34,19.18, Deut 10.18, Gal 3.28...no more Hebrew or Gentile, or Slave or Freeman, no more Male or female...all are one, equal in God. They were commanded to treat the stranger, rich or bondservant as equals...to love them as themselves, equals. Native and no difference in the stranger, rich or poor. No classism no racism no gender inequality. Unheard of stuff. That is not slavery...that's a welfare system that eliminates the poor and homelessness. That prevented child prostitution and trafficking and worse. And it's not like every other people group WEREN'T doing these horrible things, but without protection and equality laws and safeguards enforced by God. They did. It's still the number one form of slavery...debt bondage.
But covenant with God made them servants of God, basically on loan for 6 years like the land. Deut 15.
They has all sabbath's off, every feast day off, free room and board, medical, dental, learned a trade and business sense, absolving of remaining debt, and then they left with a full grant Deut 15.13. If married during that time...the wife would finish her 6 years and do the same...remaining debt absolved and given a grant, like in Egypt. Spoils.
The ONLY contentious part of biblical servitude is the permanent debt held on to one. But there's legality there. It could be paid for, but unlikely. That's why the Gentile had Deut 29. It made them covenant partners too...6 years etc. The poor were decreasing it says...so much they outsourced to the Gentiles. But it's God evangelizing...to the Gentiles. God is God of the world, not just the Jews. Christ given to the Gentiles, to the world. That's the whole intent.
Cesar you’re delusional and brainwashed! Your cognitive dissonance will not allow you to read anything other than what you’ve been brainwashed to believe! God himself is an evil slave owner and he gives instructions on how to treat your slaves. Most of the prominent men in the OT had many wife’s plus concubines! I bet you don’t have any idea who this God you defend and credulously believe is. If you think you know who God is, please respond!
The dislikes are obviously subscribers from cosmic skeptic
Definitely agree with that lol
Correct! But not in the way you think. I just subbed to Cosmic because of how blatantly unsuccessful WYM was in refuting his arguments here.
True true...but what’s stopping the Whaddo you Meme subs from disliking the original video? The ratio here is BAD
I disliked because of how terrible of a rebuttal this was
I have never heard of the guy. I just disliked it because he is incorrect.
CosmicSkeptic: I’m a moral relativist
Also CosmicSkeptic: the morals in the Bible are DETESTABLE!
The Cosmicskeptic Is arguing about Christianity's morality, not his opinion of it, and criticizing him on that is just stupid
If CosmicSkeptic is arguing about it it is an even more absolutist position than him giving his opinion (which would be a relativist perspective). Did you even think before commenting? And he's even gone as far to say what IS and ISN’T moral, again, contradicting his ”relativist” position
@Bx Dx I'm not an atheist but your comment made no sense
@@micahsiemens333 I think he's saying, Atheist claim that Christians are inconsistent yet they will be inconsistent themselves if it makes us look bad.
The idea that the Bible is some set of rules laid down by some supernatural being to guide human behavior is ludicrous. Nobody I know bases their morality off of what is written in the Bible. Every one of them finds the things they already believe and then pick and choose Bible verses to justify their belief. Here is an exercise for you. Take three highlight pens, red, green, and yellow. Go to the rules sections of the Bible such as Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy. Mark the good laws that are part of our modern laws in green, the ones that are irrelevant in today’s society in yellow, and those that are bad laws or not allowed today in red. You will see lots of red and yellow, and very little green. People do not get their morality from the Bible.
As much as I disagree with some of your response, I praise you for handling this so incredibly well. It's quite difficult to find theists that respond to atheist criticism with any, much less *this* level of respect. It certainly doesn't go unnoticed.
Ultra Pear I would like to know what responses of his do you disagree with? It’ll be good to have a mature discussion on these points.
Blah blah blah.
Most theist do have kind responses lol there’s probably a handful out there that don’t.
@@biblicalbeauty3414 *I would like to know what responses of his do you disagree with?*
I know this wasn't addressed to me, but the primary problem I see with his response is he completely failed to touch on the actual point of the video, that being to show "Why the Bible (doesn’t) Support Slavery".
It's a 20 minute long video. He found time to misrepresent things Cosmic Skeptic said. He found time to try to undermine Cosmic Skeptic's right to even make a moral judgement. And he found time to poison the well by calling the slaves "the bad guys". But he failed to say a single word showing why the bible doesn't support slavery.
He does at least give a decent definition of slavery. I give him credit for this small amount, as most other apologetic videos on the topic don't. With good reason I might add; because the moment you make a reasonable definition of slavery explicit it becomes very easy to show where the bible sanctions it. Such is the case with his definition, that being "A slave is a person who is the legal property of another person and is forced to obey them".
Leviticus 25:44-46 reads:
"And you may take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them as a possession; they shall be your permanent slaves. But regarding your brethren, the children of Israel, you shall not rule over one another with rigor."
This is why I say there is no honest way to defend slavery in the bible. It's just too explicit. There's no ambiguity there; the exact thing that makes it slavery (ownership of another person as your property) is undeniably sanctioned. As for the second part of the definition - being forced to obey - let's see what Exodus 21:20-21 says about how enforcement is done:
"And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property."
More explicit sanctioning; slave owners can beat their slaves to within an inch of their life. Provided the slave doesn't die within a couple of days there is no punishment. Why? Because the slave is the slave owners property. Can't get much more explicit than that.
Call me critical if you like, but when someone makes a 20 minute video purportedly about "Why the Bible (doesn’t) Support Slavery" and they fail to even attempt to show it, preferring to poison the well and attempts to undermine the person pointing out that slavery is sanctioned, I call that video a complete failure. Doubly so when the person uses a definition of slavery that clearly is supported by the bible. Either the author of this video has no clue what the bible actually says about slavery, or he is dishonestly pretending it doesn't sanction slavery when it clearly does (and hoping his viewers won't notice that he failed to show otherwise).
John Smith
His analogy that we aren’t slaves of God’s also doesn’t really work. A slave can choose not to work. His punishment? Torture/Death. We can choose to not believe in God. Our punishment? Eternal Torture/Death.
I can't wait untill cosmic skeptic accepts Christ. (Legitimately) I was in his boat once. Ravi Zacharias, CS Lewis and ST Augustine cured my skepticism.
Wow 😭
Why didn't you accept Allah and Muhammad as his only prophet? You're still going to hell bro
@@AI-tc8fv bro Jesus said, "i'm the way the truth and the life, no one goes to the father except through me"
also if you think Jesus never claim to be god, look up john 10:30, this is Jesus speaking, "I and the father are ONE" and if that doesn't convince you that Jesus was actually claiming to be god, then after a few verses, it talk about how the pharisees wanted to kill him because they thought he was speaking blasphemy for CLAIMING TO BE GOD, brother you should leave Allah and Muhammad and come to Jesus Christ of Nazareth and he will heal you and deliver you! god bless you man
Albert James I agree! 😇🙏
@DLIP DLIP please respect everyone LOVE UR ENEMIES
Cosmic Skeptic recently posted that his underwear was ten sizes too tight. He has since corrected the issue, and is happier and no longer attacking Christianity.
Lol
Aye yo I thought CosmicSkeptic and Geneticallymodefiedskeptoc were the same people 💀💀🤦🏽♂️
Omg me too!
Yea same here
I just noticed they weren't because of your comment. I thought cosmic skeptic was an old channel. 😂
Wow! I thought I was the only one! Can't believe how many others thought so too. It was Cosmic's accent that threw me off
TH-cam comment awards
Are we not gonna talk about how God freed the actual slaves from Egypt after 400 years and led them to freedom by literally splitting the Red Sea? And most of those freed slaves wanted to go back to Egypt to because they STILL doubted God after that. Of course God does not condone slavery! Jesus came and died to set us free from bondage that we actually deserve so that we can be with him in peace and freedom forever!
@@ThePurpleGoose023
The point was not ignored,Cosmicskeptic can't even elaborate on what he means.
@@ThePurpleGoose023
You mean the 7 year debt?
Im a little lost.
@@ThePurpleGoose023
Laws to protect outsiders.
"You shall not oppress a resident alien; you know the heart of an alien, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt" (Ex 23:9). " You shall not withhold the wages of poor and needy laborers, whether other Israelites or aliens who reside in your land in one of your towns." (Deut 24:14)
"The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself" (Lev 19:34). " You shall also love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt" (Deut 10:19)
Judges were required to give equal treatment to foreigners: "Give the members of your community a fair hearing, and judge rightly between one person and another, whether citizen or resident alien" (Deut 1:16). "You shall have one law for the alien and for the citizen." (Lev 24:22)
Part of the harvest each year was to be left in the fields for foreigners to collect for themselves: "you shall leave them for the poor and for the alien" (Lev 23:22).
Foreigners, orphans, and widows were given a tenth of the annual produce once every three years. (Deut 14:28)
Foreigners were legally allowed to own Israelites as servants. (Lev 25:47)
I disagree with Cosmic on this but frankly its fine.
@@ThePurpleGoose023
Leviticus 25:39-40
39 “If your brother becomes poor beside you and sells himself to you, you shall not make him serve as a slave: 40 he shall be with you as a hired worker and as a sojourner. He shall serve with you until the year of the jubilee.
On top of that, if a slave wanted to be free before any of these timeframes took place, they were allowed to buy their freedom.
Leviticus 25:48-52
48 then after he is sold he may be redeemed. One of his brothers may redeem him, 49 or his uncle or his cousin may redeem him, or a close relative from his clan may redeem him. Or if he grows rich he may redeem himself. 50 He shall calculate with his buyer from the year when he sold himself to him until the year of jubilee, and the price of his sale shall vary with the number of years. The time he was with his owner shall be rated as the time of a hired worker. 51 If there are still many years left, he shall pay proportionately for his redemption some of his sale price. 52 If there remain but a few years until the year of jubilee, he shall calculate and pay for his redemption in proportion to his years of service.
How about a couple of my all time favorites -
Exodus 21:16
16 “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.
Deuteronomy 24:7
7 “If a man is found stealing one of his brothers of the people of Israel, and if he treats him as a slave or sells him, then that thief shall die. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.
So, in a world where people already own slaves, we see all over the Mosaic Law that God commanded freedom for slaves and gave provisions for slaves to free themselves. Also, any kidnapping and selling or buying of a person was rewarded with death and the person participating in slave trade is labeled as evil.
3. Slaves sold themselves and were more like hired workers
This is another important point. God did not allow slave trade the way we perceive it. There was to be no kidnapping or stealing of people followed by selling. Rather, people were allowed to sell themselves into slavery voluntarily. This was typically in order to pay off debts, or simply because a family was poor and selling yourself into slavery gave you provisions that you would not otherwise have. We’ll dive further into that in the next section.
Leviticus 25:39-41
39 “If your brother becomes poor beside you and sells himself to you, you shall not make him serve as a slave: 40 he shall be with you as a hired worker and as a sojourner. He shall serve with you until the year of the jubilee. 41 Then he shall go out from you, he and his children with him, and go back to his own clan and return to the possession of his fathers.
Leviticus 25:47-48
47 “If a stranger or sojourner with you becomes rich, and your brother beside him becomes poor and sells himself to the stranger or sojourner with you or to a member of the stranger's clan, 48 then after he is sold he may be redeemed. One of his brothers may redeem him,
Also, God reminds His people that they are to treat the slaves as hired workers
Leviticus 25:53
53 He shall treat him as a worker hired year by year. He shall not rule ruthlessly over him in your sight.
4. The Mosaic Law required good treatment of slaves by Israel
The Mosaic laws pertaining to slavery are starkly contrasted by other laws of this day. This is clear when we observe the day to day treatment laid out in ancient texts. Hammurabi’s code, law number 282 says, "If a slave says to his master: "You are not my master," if they convict him his master shall cut off his ear." It seems that those who claim that the Bible supports slavery should be able to find verses as damning as this one. However, that is not the case. All of the laws concerning treatment of slaves are restrictive in nature in regard to the “master” in the Mosaic Law. There is a massive amount of verses that command Israel to treat their slaves with respect.
Exodus 21:26-27
26 “When a man strikes the eye of his slave, male or female, and destroys it, he shall let the slave go free because of his eye. 27 If he knocks out the tooth of his slave, male or female, he shall let the slave go free because of his tooth.
Exodus 21:20
20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged.
These are two verses that prohibit violent treatment of slaves. This was an extremely prohibitive deterrent, meant to scare anyone away from beating their slaves. Exodus 21:20 for instance - the penalty here, or “avengement”, is death. If you beat your slave and they die because of it, you will lose your life over this. Also, verses 26 & 27 in Leviticus 21 make it clear that even injuring your slave will allow that slave to go free. This created too much risk for the slave owner to mistreat their slaves, as they would either lose their slave or their life entirely.
There are several other examples of God commanding respect for slaves. For example, if a slave ran away from their owner and found refuge with an Israelite, that Israelite was not allowed to give up the slave. In fact, the law commands them to let that slave live wherever he likes within the town!
Deuteronomy 23:15-16
15 You shall not give up to his master a slave who has escaped from his master to you. 16 He shall dwell with you, in your midst, in the place that he shall choose within one of your towns, wherever it suits him. You shall not wrong him.
Here are a few others that speak to respecting slaves
Leviticus 25:53
53 He shall treat him as a worker hired year by year. He shall not rule ruthlessly over him in your sight.
Exodus 21:12
12 “Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death.
This next one refers to women that were bought as wives
Exodus 21:7-8
7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her"
So, we’ve really only spent time analyzing the Mosaic Law’s codes that pertain to slavery, and what have we learned from these? We’ve learned that God presses Israel through His laws to free slaves. That is observed in all the texts where God commands slaves to be free in all kinds of different scenarios. We also see God threatening death to those who do not free their slaves. On top of that, we see for the slaves that remain, God requires that they be treated with respect and dealt with “as daughters”, wives, or kin in general. They are not allowed to injure or kill the slaves. They are required to provide food and homes and possessions to the slaves. God’s heart towards slavery was soft and commanded kindness to people who sold themselves into slavery.
@@ThePurpleGoose023
Again, these laws against harming slaves are proscriptive. Most (if not all) other nations had no such laws (until the time of the Greeks and Romans) regarding slaves, viewing them merely as property. In the minds of most ancient cultures, it appears that if slaves were abused, mistreated, and even killed, there were no consequences.
But in Israel if you hit a slave and knocked his tooth out or damaged his eye, you had to set him free (Exodus 21:26-27). Clearly you were not to harm your slaves, and this is the context of the passage mentioned in the feedback, Exodus 21:20-21:
And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.
Rather than focusing solely on the second part of the verse, let’s examine the first part. The slave owner would be punished if he beat his slave to death. If the Mosaic Law is followed, this could include the death penalty for murder (Exodus 21:12). Do you not think this was a severe incentive to make sure that people did not beat their slaves? Again, the law in this was proscriptive meant to make people think of the consequences of their actions and impose penalties on violation. To imply that this encourages masters to restrain their beating only to the point that the servant didn’t immediately die is nonsense.
The bible may not say "dont hold someone as a slave" according to the cosmic skeptic but it did say "love thy neighbor as thyself" this not only covers not having slaves but anything that relates to hurting someone else.
Exactly! Sorry, total subject change. But whenever a Mormon or Baha'i says, "You know the Bible doesn't condemn polygamy (or whatever obvious sin), you can just say with St. Chrysostom, "Yeah it does! Leviticus 19:18. Your prophet just didn't see it there because he's not inspired by the Holy Spirit." Or be nicer and less of a smart donkey than me.
Then why is the rules of owning a slave there if its "condemned" by the bible. You can categorise a neighbour in many ways. Literal next door neighbour or someone from other country. Considering that the slavery rules are more harsh if youre out of country would suggest it means a literal one. Making your argument "love thy neighbour" completely useless. God doesnt support slavery... well he sure isnt condemning it and left very clear rules and thats the problem.
@@taot7275 because you lack historical knowledge, if you know anything about the culture when those words were spoken, then you would see that even a person in debt is considered a slave. do you think the slavery the bible was talking about was like the African slave trade? yeah you may need to read more. Also, read the book of Philemon in the Bible it tackles the entire issue of slavery. Do yourself a favor and read it.
@@friedit7862 And youre ignoring the fact that foreign slaves are yours forever and you can pass then and their family as inheritance.
@@taot7275 and i say again, read history and how cultures were, and judge the culture as it in that time and how "slaves" were treated especially among the Israelite compared to the other races.
All I can hear when listening is "I don't like God's laws so I'll do what I want." It all comes down to that.
That's just the lie desperate Theists tell themselves when they can't comprehend how anyone could choose not to believe not only what they do, but anything at all without empirical evidence.
@@EiferBrennan If you don't believe in God, then you believe in governments and man. Good luck with that. Look around.
Do you like Gods laws regarding slavery? Including the ones that say slaves are your property that you can hand down in your will? And the ones about how you can beat your slaves provided they don’t die within a couple of days?
If you view these laws as anything other than abhorrent then you either never had an ounce or morality or empathy, or if you did you swapped it for you me belief.
@Tempus Fugit *Don't be daft. It's no more a law that you can beat your slave than you can take out an eye. Read the actual Bible.*
Exodus 21:
"20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result,
21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property."
Precisely as I said. It literally took me less than 30 seconds to Google this. Why is it you are telling me to read the bible when you haven't bothered to look up to see what it actually says? Why is it I as an atheist need to inform Christians of what their holy book says? You're the ones claiming to take this stuff seriously, yet you don't know what it says and won't spend 30 seconds to find out.
I have some sympathy because I know you are not hearing the truth about what's in the bible from your pastor or from apologists like Whaddo you meme. I hate the dishonesty of these people either blatantly lying or at minimum misleading people about what is in the bible. But I have now quoted to you what it says so you no longer have ignorance as a defence. You can either take this as an eye-opening experience and recognise you need to read the bible for yourself and not rely on what you've heard people tell you it says, or you knowingly turn a blind eye to it and continue believing the comfortable lie. The choice is yours, but if you choose the latter don't run around telling people that have actually read it and actually know what it says that they are wrong.
As for taking out an eye - yes that's an exception with consequences for the slave owner. So is taking out a tooth. And so too if they die within a couple of days. I don't know what point you are trying to make. Are you suggesting if there are exceptions to a rule that the rule somehow doesn't exist? Perhaps you're instead trying to suggest because there are certain protections for slaves that the overall rules for slaves are somehow moral? But this amounts to the same thing - ignoring a very clear passage that says you can beat slaves, and the reason so is because they are your property. This isn't moral, even if you consider an exception to be.
*Secondly, you really think it says that it's not ok to injure or kill a slave but it IS ok to kill them as long as it's a slow death? Hahahha. Come on. That's a poor translation and absurd.*
I agree it's absurd. It's ridiculous to suggest these are the rules an all-loving and all-knowing being would create. But that's what the bible says... the absurdity is with the bible, not with me correctly pointing out what it says.
If you think this is a simple translation error then I encourage you to read all of the main translations to come to a more rounded feeling about how the verse was intended to be taken. I'm hoping by now you're recognising this isn't the first time I've read this stuff. I have read the main translations and I can tell you there's no joy to be found here. The verse is just too clear and direct to translate into flowery language that can be dismissed.
I quoted the NIV above for it's clear language. Here's the KJV:
"20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money."
The NASB:
"20 “And if someone strikes his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies at his hand, he shall be punished.
21 If, however, the slave survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for the slave is his property."
And the ESV:
"20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged.
21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money."
I recognise this may be hard to read if it's the first time you've seen these verses. There are ways to deal with these sorts of things and remain a Christian (it's only if you insist that the bible is the perfect word of a perfectly moral God that a hard problem exists). I've spent time making this reply (twice actually, as my laptop battery died just before I submitted my response initially). I've looked up the translations to provide them to you. I'm happy to continue a conversation on the topic, but it needs to be based in reality. Denying it says what it clearly does isn't a way forward.
@@combat-cozyou clearly don’t know much about atheism
It's ironic how many atheists have a god complex.
😂😂😂 they think they’re the standard of right and wrong behaviors
That's literally what fueled original sin.
@@ThatCapnGeech very true. Satan is the definition of a narcissistic, self absorbed person. Literally believing he is above God himself.
@@ThatCapnGeech there is no original sin. That is a lie told by the catholic church. Maybe read some old testament.
@@wretchedsaint9191 cute fairy tale.
Thank you for such a gracious & eloquent response! Praise God for this video🙏🏻
hello! Didn't expect you here
Heeeeey! It's you!
God is war
God is hate
God is mean
God is fake
God is war
God is hate
God is mean
God is fake
God is war
God is hate
God is mean
God is fake
1.1k people dont realize there are 3 parts to this series 🙄🤦🏻♂️
I read the entire bible 6 times already and the slavery in the bible doesn't seem like what we think when we hear the word slavery, I think that with things as mess up as they are in our country today and so many of us struggling to make ends meet, I personally wouldn't mind being a slave like in the bible with all the regulations that are in it I probably would have better food, better room better quality of living, being slave to a rich family and after 7 years they would have to set me free and compensate me at the same time, that means a brand new car, money enough to survive and probably even start my own business of course I could just decide that I don't want to be free and enjoy the benefits of being a slave according to the bible, at least that is what I read in the bible, not in the same ballpark as the evil slavery practiced in the United states. The bible in the bible is almost like living in a rich people's home and having al your needs provided while saving money for 7 years, so you could decide if you want to stay or you just want to leave it sounds like a good deal to me. I do admit I was bothered by slavery in the bible at first but once I read and analyzed all the details I realized that this is better than having a job getting paid minimum wage and struggling to find a decent place to live. Yeah I'll take the slavery in the bible it pays better people.
@@awakeandalive4248 Did you read the part about how slaves are the property of their owner and can be passed down as inheritance? Or the part where it’s ok for a slave owner to beat their slave? Provided the slave doesn’t die within a day or two there is no punishment at all for the slave owner.
@@JohnSmith-fz1ih What you are told that you can do is simply giving options and putting the idea out there *you* actually doing it is a different story God knew people would enslave but he didn't stop because God isn't a genie or at your command for him to be and do anything you say he'd be your slave..😱🤯🤯🤯
@@JohnSmith-fz1ih You're putting the blame on God but not the people that are in control of their own actions
@@JohnSmith-fz1ih If God agreed with your human morality and shared the same thoughts and opinions as you no questions asked you'd be in control therefore he wouldn't be God
Thank you so much for this video! It's tough to admit, but while struggling with my gender dysphoria, I've had a similar mindset to Cosmic Skeptic. I felt like I wasn't given a real choice being a person of the LGBTQ group. I was brought up to believe that if I "give in" and get a sex change, that will most likely send me to hell. I didn't see this as God giving me a real choice at all because why would I choose to be happy for maybe 80 or so years (life on earth) only to burn in hell for eternity? It felt more like a threat to me. Like God was saying "Sure, you can be LGBTQ, but then I'll send you to hell." What you said in this video made sense though. Just because I don't necessarily like the choices/options doesn't mean I don't have a choice at all.
I wish you luck in your walk of life, friend
@@datanotfound4556 Thanks so much, I appreciate it.
@Day Dreamers Agreed, God Bless you, my friend.
I'm my opinion, a God that would send someone to hell for being transgender is a shitty God. God is love and love is the opposite of hate. Fuck bigotry. Do what you have to do to be happy.
@@homophobesblowcock3297 facts
We're all slaves to sin before we're saved...
How is that logical?
Some people forget we have free will.. that God has given us....
Really? How do you know that? Did the Pharaoh have free will when god hardened is heart?
@@amateuroverlord8007 yes, Pharoah hardened his heart numerous times before God started doing it
@@dlove9034 why does that matter? If Pharaoh was going to let the Hebrews go free, but then did not because God hardened his heart, how does he have free will? He was going to make a decision, then God stepped in and caused him to make a different decision. Not to mention God did this because he wanted to show off his power, which is very petty. Why is god petty? That seems like a human characteristic and not a very flattering one.
@@amateuroverlord8007 Exodus 8:32, Pharaoh hardened his own heart first, he refused to let of God's people from captivity. The Lord sent frogs, flies ect...But Pharaoh refused, THEN God started to harden Pharaoh's heart. He kinda does that in this day and age, He give people up to a reprobate mind.
@@dlove9034 doesn’t answer the question. God still hardened his heart. The story is very clear, God decided he needed to demonstrate his power, which is quite fucking stupid. The creators of the universe thinks he needs to further demonstrate his power. So he hardened Pharaoh’s heart. At that point Pharaoh could not make a different decision therefore he had no free will.
I was so hoping that you would do a well thought through breakdown - I was not disappointed
Luis Pellicer Collado and if you notice, I said in the pinned post, I was doing more parts. Also, I started at the beginning on his argument in the video, and literally didn’t skip a single word. So, per usual, you’re wrong, buddy ;)
@@whaddoyoumeme he was complimenting you
@@jeanmeiring so, if you could read carefully the person I was responding to wasn’t the OP (and must have deleted their comment). So, who’s the dumb one now? Not me.
@@whaddoyoumeme my guy just chill
@@whaddoyoumeme
Respectfully, if you think the way you are behaving here is fine, you need to get before God.
"Fools show their annoyance at once, but the prudent overlook an insult." - Proverbs 12:16.
"Love those who hate you, and pray for those who persecute you." - Matthew 5:44.
"Love suffers long and is kind... love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked..." - 1 Corinthians 13:4-5.
Thank you for making this video, honestly this part of the bible was something I've always struggled with and I'm so grateful you helped clarify so much of it for me. Thank you again 😊
Doesn't change the fact that the Bible absolutely does support slavery. You guys can make excuses all you want to but the Bible still supports it you can get the f*** over ot
When i look into this kids eyes, i have the feeling that all the joy is gone from his life. I feel bad for him.
Mangaran WoW Bc it is.
Kinda like when I look into people like your I sigh and think why have a brain if you don't use it.
Swear a year later I said idk why but this kid got a evil look in him.
Amazing how so many atheists have that look in them. That cold almost dead in their eyes. On the other hand, never seen a Christian with that look
Turn up your brightness
Another thing is a certain verse. I don't remember it, but it was in the assorted laws in Judges I believe. It literally said, if a servant of your neighbor flees to you. Feed him, give him rest, and lodge him. It literally tells you to protect them from their "owner".
So keep slaves but protect them when they run away. Got it thanks.
Glad you pointed out the hypocrisy about morality from Alex. It makes his whole argument just an opinion.
@Ancient Skeptic
reference verse?
Tecnically he could argue moral realism and christianity are incompatible IF moral realism where true, but the way he says it in the video seems to indicate that he belives some sort of objective morality, ironically if his argument against slavery suceeds, it would be an argumemt against moral subjectivism
@@Bulldog75stp Leviticus 25:44-46
@@incredulouspasta3304
Thanks for the reference link. I suppose this is also the verse he had in mind. I'll start by clarifying a few things.
First, Leviticus 25 was written to the Jews of the day. Any law, ritual, or suggestion should be known to the reader, that it applies only to the Jews of that era. Second, I'd point out, with the coming of the Messiah, there was a new covenant made to replace the old. That's not to say we should ignore the OT. However, to object to a policy that is not even sanctioned today due to the new covenant would be an error. Lastly, if the Bible did say, "Thou shalt not have slaves", what would people do? Nothing. The Bible already tells us:
1) Not to kill- there are 437,000-520,000 murders in the world annually.
2) Not to steal- there are 7 million shoplifters (or 1 in 11 people) in our nation today.
3) Not to think upon a woman in lust- In 2016, 91,980,225,000 videos were watched on Pornhub. That’s 12.5 videos for every person on the planet.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
www.shopliftingprevention.org/what-we-do/learning-resource-center/statistics/
fightthenewdrug.org/by-the-numbers-see-how-many-people-are-watching-porn-today/
While I admire your desire to stop slavery, which is still going on in 2019, the type of slavery in the transatlantic slave trade was already forbidden.
Exodus 21:16~ And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
You may be telling yourself, "well that verse doesn't ban all forms of slavery". I would agree. However, it does ban the type of slavery that was preformed in the transatlantic slave trade. Your verse was specifically about Jews owning foreigners, aka strangers, as bond-servants. I'll try to explain this. Lets look at the verse in question:
Lev 25:44-46 ~ Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.
The proceeding verses in Leviticus 25 outline how to treat countrymen bond-servants. We have no reason to believe that the same was not true for the foreigners in the land. The verse says, “Purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land,” (Leviticus 25:44) and these were probably people like the Hebrews who fell on hard times and were poor. Being a servant in another household was better than starving. The rights are spelled out for the Hebrews but they would also apply to the foreigners who were welcomed into the land. The people were commanded:
Exodus 22:21-22 ~ Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt. Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child. Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child..” - Exodus 22:21-22
Leviticus 25:47-55 ~ And if a sojourner or stranger wax rich by thee, and thy brother that dwelleth by him wax poor, and sell himself unto the stranger or sojourner by thee, or to the stock of the stranger's family:
48 After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him:
49 Either his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or any that is nigh of kin unto him of his family may redeem him; or if he be able, he may redeem himself.
50 And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubile: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him.
51 If there be yet many years behind, according unto them he shall give again the price of his redemption out of the money that he was bought for.
52 And if there remain but few years unto the year of jubile, then he shall count with him, and according unto his years shall he give him again the price of his redemption.
53 And as a yearly hired servant shall he be with him: and the other shall not rule with rigour over him in thy sight.
54 And if he be not redeemed in these years, then he shall go out in the year of jubile, both he, and his children with him.
55 For unto me the children of Israel are servants; they are my servants whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.
The central issue here is that slavery was initiated BY the slave, NOT by the owners, DEFINITELY not by force. The passage about inheritance needs some caveats:
First, the verses say “you may” pass them on to your children, not that it was automatic, necessary, expected, or standard practice. It may be that the prosperity changes could have reduced the owner’s ability to support the slave.
Second, this may well refer to servants who did not want to go free as expressed in Exodus 21:5, “But if the slave declares that he loves his master, his wife, and his children and does not want to be set free,” there was a ceremony at the place of worship for declaring him to be a slave for life. There is a similar procedure described in Deuteronomy 15:16 in which a person could become a slave for life because “he may love you and your family and be content to stay.”
Third, given the fact that slaves could earn money, they could buy their own freedom: “...if he be able, he may redeem himself..” - Leviticus 25:49
Conclusion
As we see, the so called “biblical slavery” isn’t the kind of slavery we all aware of. The Bible condemns “forced slavery” (Exodus 21:16), but condones “voluntary slavery” for a period of time because of poverty, unless the slaves do not want to be freed (Exodus 21:5).
www.comereason.org/slavery-in-the-bible.asp
answeringsceptics.wordpress.com/2013/10/21/answering-leviticus-25-44-46-the-bible-condones-slavery/comment-page-1/
www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/matthew-henry-complete/leviticus/25.html
Just like religion is just an opinion
Exodus 21:20-21
New International Version
20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.
Why does the Christian keep comparing minor punishments with an eternity of torcher?
Because it's the only way to make things smoother
Lol I was once part of these “New Atheists” that worshipped science as some god.
What are you now?
@@Xbalanque84 don’t know what he is but I’m a Christian now. I was an agnostic atheist.
@@lopez8872 im an agnostic christian
@@lopez8872 Wow! Glad to know that, God bless you.
@@gracefulrx I'm not sure if that's possible.
Really good biblical theology and historical approach, really appreciate how you handled this.
Bible is a historical book and not a book for present, its not Gods words. It was written by and for ancient people.
@@rtam9894 Though Historical it has great relevance today, I would venture to say vital relevance that society today is deeply lacking. Without the Word, our world we love is and will continue to spiral deeper into despair.
Great Analogy . I personally think he did it to gain views . He was never interested in the Truth .
If you think that you've clearly never watched Alex. He pretty extensively studies religion and it's arguments and in nearly all his debates he's respectful and has good discourse with his interlocutor. I highly recommend his debate with trent horn. While it's possible he only does thing for views it seems highly unlikely due to his in depth study of theology and arguments for god.
@@m0nk198 I don't think the original commenter was talking about Jon
@@m0nk198 he is biased.
Yea even as a Christian you can tell he's definitely trying his best. His discernment may be clouded, but he's almost always made great points that have begged good questions that in turn have strengthened my personal faith upon discovering the answers.
Paul Copan answers all of this quite well in "Is God a Moral Monster? Making Sense of the Old Testament God."
And then I think tom stark refuses that book in: “is god a moral compromiser.” If I recall he goes through Copans book point by point.
Both are fascinating.
@@d_e_a_n I don't know if/when I could make time to read that rebuttal, but I would say I'm already skeptical in skimming through the "Scope of the Review" in that it reads like it was taken straight out of the mouth of an Islamic apologist, saying things like "Muhammad condemned the slaughter of noncombatants, women and children. Second, he embraced religious
tolerance and believed that Christians, despite some theological
flaws, were God’s people too, only with imperfect revelation," as well as "Muhammad sanctioned warfare only for defense against oppressors and those who sought to limit Islam’s
freedom to exercise their religion." Muhammad only sanctioned defensive jihad? Give me a break. (cough, Sura 9:29, cough)
johnnythegringo88 I only read a couple chapters in it. Seemed pretty hard hitting.
What I think is most likely to happen is Christians will read the one and atheists will read the other. Which isn’t great.
Read the description of the people they wiped out. They were Giants who would pose a threat to mankind both bodily and spiritually.
@@jacobitewiseman3696 truth. They had six fingers and toes and they were defilers of themselves women and children. The israelites saw them and were afraid because they were many times larger than the israelites. I find it interesting that every atheist skimmed right past all of the major details for the reasoning in having to kill or displace these various rephaim and nephilim tribes. They were burning their infants to pagan deities to boot but either way they were not God's intended "humankind." This is why we find skeletons that are much larger and human like even with cranial mass up to 30% larger but no trace of the lineage later. They were often cannibals and would grab people like they were snacksized morsels and eat them. Rob Skiba and Mike Heiser cover this subject very thoroughly and ETP covers the confiscation and destruction of the bones at the Smithsonian.
I was about to make the point about CS' blatantly contradictory moral positions when you did the same in the video. I have never been able to understand this. Atheist: there is no such thing as objective right and wrong
Same atheist: Owning slaves is wrong.
Prosper Bakiny Moral subjectivism does not state that there is no right or wrong, it states that right and wrong are subjective. The statement “sadness is unpleasant” is something that *everyone* will agree on, but it’s still an opinion. It’s still subjective. The statement “slavery is bad” is the same way: any rational, modern person you speak with will agree the statement is true, and thus Alex can speak about as if it is, but it’s still subjective. There is no contradiction.
@Prosper Bakiny, wow, what a stupid comment.
@@gcsgamingcommunity4087 the problem is with the moral subjectivist is that he claims right and wrong and good and evil are not absolute universal truths! CS has a video where it states “There is no Good” but yet he claims to be the authority on it ! Smh he’s making objective claims then so he is a moral absolutists even if he won’t admit it
@@thecarlitosshow7687 If you believe morality is objective and came from God, you ought to be able to explain why the Bible condones slavery (especially to non-Jewish slaves), although nowadays we all consider slavery to be morally unacceptable. Which is it: is slavery still morally acceptable, or did the morals regarding slavery change over time?
@@mve6182 I don’t think the Old Testament is the correct view of morality. The Old Testament was written during a time that human slavery and human sacrifice was a universal, cultural norm. Those stories are Written by the Jews about their problems, history, and religion. The Jews wrote the Old Testament so WHOS ultimately responsible for the immoral act and WHOS GOD is commanding slavery in those mythological narratives?
Had these peoples been let go by their owners the slaves would staved starved to death, life was difficult then and jobs and grocery's stores did not just exist
Oh yeah. You're right because in those times free poor people didn't exist.
You could say the same about the slaves in the south.
There is no free will and I challenge any Christian who thinks otherwise.
Were you free to write that?
Oh, my dear interlocutor, you've brought up a topic that's just brimming with irony and delightful contradictions! Yes, it's truly perplexing how some Christians seem to conveniently overlook the glaring similarities between the slavery mentioned in the Old Testament and the despicable institution of the American Slave Trade. It's almost as if they're eager to downplay any discomforting comparisons. How peculiar!
Now, let's revel in the delightful distinctions, shall we? In the Old Testament, we find a veritable utopia of humane servitude. After all, what could be more compassionate than owning another human being as property, right? It's like a benevolent exchange of mutual affection! The fact that slaves were often acquired through conquests and were treated as chattel with limited rights? Mere trivialities, I assure you.
And let's not forget the Old Testament's countless anecdotes of slavery's tender embrace. Those heartwarming stories of forced labor, where slaves were beaten, sold, and even passed down through generations as inherited property. Oh, what a cozy, heartwarming tale of benevolence! It simply warms the cockles of my soul.
But wait, there's more! In the American Slave Trade, slaves were forcibly taken from their homelands, subjected to brutal and inhumane treatment, torn apart from their families, and endured centuries of dehumanization. But clearly, that's an entirely different kind of slavery, because, you know, it happened in a different time and place. Silly me, how could I ever confuse the two?
So, my dear friend, it's abundantly clear that those who argue for the stark contrast between Old Testament slavery and the American Slave Trade must possess an extraordinary talent for self-delusion. Surely, they must have access to a magical hermeneutical guidebook that allows them to selectively interpret passages and conveniently ignore uncomfortable truths.
But hey, who am I to question such a masterful display of cognitive gymnastics? After all, we all know that moral relativism is the most consistent and intellectually rigorous approach. So, let us raise our glasses and toast to the charming, idyllic world of biblical servitude, where slavery is a virtue and empathy is for the weak. Cheers!
'In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.'"
Also do you write like this normally? It's fucking embarrassing 😂
The kind of slavery that is always penned on the “pro-slavery” verses in the Bible by atheists and skeptics is the EXACT kind of slavery the Bible condemned. The race based involuntary servitude with no pay, or ANY KIND of monetary reciprocation or otherwise with land, or being released from debt. This was the kind of slavery that the Egyptians were placing upon the Israelites in the Exodus account, and for this reason God judged the Egyptians and Pharaoh, emancipating them from it.
The Bible has God telling the Israelite they could buy foreign slaves and keep them as chattel, pass them on to their children, and keep the slave's children as chattel. Are you trying to argue that tribe based involuntary servitude with no pay, or ANY KIND of monetary reciprocation or otherwise with land or being released from debt is somehow ok?
Liz D Actually servents under Jewish law weren’t treated as chattel, they were actually treated as members of the family, and given inheritance rights, not the same as the kind of race based involuntary servitude practiced in Egypt in that time.
@@TheFreedomDefender Not the foreign slaves. You need to actually read the Bible, including everything it says about slavery, and not just listen to smug apologists.
Liz D I have read the Bible more than once and been to seminary. You misquoted what I originally said.
@@TheFreedomDefender Then you should know that foreign slaves were treated as chattel property, weren't paid, and weren't freed. The only difference with slavery as practiced by the Egyptians is that the foreign slaves of the Hebrews weren't supposed to die too quickly when you beat them.
Why didn't you know this?
Matt Dilahunty already debunked all your Biblical pro slavery arguments.
Here, I'll debunk his first argument.
Willfully submitting to someone is in fact slavery when refusing to do so results in some kind of punishment and or destruction.
This guy isn't as intelligent as I thought.
Let’s talk about Jay dyer vs Matt dillahunty debate
i could listen to this guy all day long. the logic is sound, the evidence is so clear
If you think about it, Jacob went into "slavery" when he served his uncle for 21 years for his wives.
Not at all. They had an agreed upon arrangement, it was Jacob's idea, and even though Laban tried to cheat him several times, he walked away richer than Laban...wives, cattle, servants & money when he arrived with nothing but himself.
@@sunnyedaize1262
Actually, given the requirements to be a slave depicted in the Bible, it's not inaccurate to call him one during that time.
@@sunnyedaize1262
A slave getting richer than his old master doesn't mean he wasn't a slave.
And voluntary servitude would still be classified as a slave, at least in the way the bible defines it.
@@sunnyedaize1262 you make a good point. You are perfectly stating the point of this video! Which is to say that slavery in the Bible is completely different than what you and I think of a slavery, which is usually the slavery of the Atlantic slave trade. That is the entire point of this video. Therefore, the slavery of the Bible since you don't think of it as slavery, we really should have a different word for it since you all aren't able to understand that a word can have different meaning under different context.
Yet, people insist upon taking that same word knowing that it's used in a different context in the Bible, and then saying that the Bible condones slavery.
FBI 1987 it's absolutely inaccurate because the Hebrew word for servant was intentionally mistranslated as slave. I've studied this subject thoroughly just because people misinterpret it so much. Jacob hired himself to his uncle in exchange for wife and valuables. That's not even close to slavery.
"Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."- Matthew 22 kjv
Still doesn’t condemn slavery...
@@indicajane4721
Except it's not slavery. If God was an enslaver, he would be more like Poseidon or Zeus from Greek Mythology, making us create statues of them. He'd also appear more on Earth and whip you everytime you disobeyed.
God is the opposite of an enslaver.
@@davidnewhart2533 so why did god never once say it is not right to own people, Have ways to trap people in servitude and not once say it was wrong? What type of god does that?
@@justarandomcatonyoutube1729 what do you mean by you people?
@@justarandomcatonyoutube1729 who are you referring to as a fool? Maybe take a moment and see what is within your own spirit before making such statements on the internet. I hope you read the Bible cover to cover and see how or if you reflect it’s contents. Good day to you. I have no ill towards you.
"Um, is Jussie Smollett innocent? Nope!!" 😂😂😂
lol yeah that bit I think everyone can agree on, Christian or skeptic
Mutantcy1992 If a Skeptic was consistent they would likely say in his truth or opinion he is innocent or that he may not even be real tbh Skeptic is to vague a term.
@@justchilling704 what? clarify.
Mutantcy1992 On which point. Skeptic as being to vague a term or, the result of consistent atheism, or skepticism, and naturalism?
Off subject
“Sin is like a jail cell, except it’s all comfy and there doesn’t seem to be any reason to leave.”
No sin is like a unicorn 🦄 it doesn’t exist.
@@Jambuc829 Guess you don't have any concrete standards of what is morally wrong or right then. Whatever I do; even if it involves taking others' lives intentionally, I can declare it right since 'sin' doesn't exist.
@@Vincent-jb8us are you telling me that you only believe murdering others is wrong because God will punish you because of it. Empathy does not need religion.
@@kleptomania2631 That is totally an ignorant statement.
God declares murder as sin/wrong and understood by humans for the same reason why the secular Goverment would make a law against murder. Not mainly because you'll be punished if you do it.
Going against such law, can reasonably, of course, make the secular goverment punish the offender.
Why? because the offender *violated the lives of others* , therefore, it's *wrong* and *unlawful* . That is literally God's principle applied by the government.
God who has the empathy to declare such act as wrong in the first place, gave humans the ability to empathize in order to understand that principle.
@@Vincent-jb8us I think Kleptomania's point is that it doesn't need to come from God for us as a society to consider it true that murder is wrong. It was considered so before Christianity and before Judaism, it did not require God for the act to be considered unanimously by humanity, a bad thing to do.
The difference here is that atheists believe that all morality is subjective, this does not mean irrelevant. Just because we don't have a universal unwavering set of objective laws doesn't mean we don't have our own set of subjective laws that shift and change as our society develops its understanding of subjective morality so that people are treated properly.
If you go to Allen Parr’s original 2 year old video about this series of responses, all you will see in the comments is CosmicSkeptic’s fans being highly disrespectful to Allen because they all firmly believe he’s blindly supporting slavery. Making sure to put emphasis on the fact that he’s a black man, and I’m sure a fair number of them didn’t actually watch Allen’s full video, let alone read the Bible.
I, and my colleagues have zero issues with rational atheists who simply have a skeptical perspective on magic omnipotent beings beyond space and time that created everything. To them, it’s a fairy tale to comfort people. I’ve always been taught to hate sin but love everyone, including my enemies. Being a non believer does not make you my enemy anyways. One of the nicest human beings I’ve ever known was my boss at one point but he was Muslim.
I absolutely loved working with him.
My point is that I can only ask for mutual respect. I love you as a person but please don’t rest in an arm chair belittling me because I believe in a higher power rather than everything being created from nothing without cause or reason.
And we ask the same of Christian's. But most as in fundamentalist Christians try ramming religion down peoples throats. Being a gay man it's none of yours or your gods business what I do with my life. But christians get into politics and try to make laws and tell me how I should live my life! Your God would have me executed if you were to follow the laws of the Bible!
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🐻🐻🐻🐻🐻🐻🐻🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
@Comics Book Awesomeness and I suppose you're so smart and know everything??
I really hope the cosmic sceptic got to see this video👀 Thanks a lot for this video! It really explains and truly puts into context this very controversial topic.
Let's all go and post it for him and his viewers
@@sharonjohns1686 How??
He just want to practice lawlessness.. His heart desires disobedience therefore he's a slave to sin
That is well said ....what Greater love is this for a God to give up his only begotten son he who knew no sin become sin for us ...for we have no good in us, and for a righteous God to die for us to save us from his wrath. I gladly will be a Slave to Christ...the biblical meaning....the gospel is beautiful to the sinner ....beginning slaves to righteousness.
You’re right.
His point involves comparing rulers and law-enforcers as tyrannical slave masters, which he was referring to God as being “the world’s first taskmaster according to the Bible”.
These people kill me when they apply 2020 morality to past civilizations! Slavery was an acceptable practice! The people writing The Bible were speaking and using analogy of what they knew!
Thank you exactly, it was absolutely normal for all cultures at the time.
Bad example. God's morality does not bend with time. The distinction of what is a slave then versus our conception of one now is important though. God condemned involuntary slavery.
@@ergoth154 There's nothing voluntary for slaves from surrounding nations in Leviticus 25:44-46, or for children born to slave parents in Exodus 21:4.
@@TheDapperSwindler yeah I’m very confused on what “voluntary” slavery is. I like the way Matt puts it. “Would you be my slave under the rules of Exodus 21?” (Meaning that I can beat you and as long as you don’t die in a couple days, I am not to be punished)
If you answer no, you see the issue with this rule and we don’t have to skip around the issue and say “well that’s how it was back then” no, that is your God in fact allowing slavery. A very simple commandment saying “you shall not own people as property” would have sufficed. The Bible does the exact opposite of this.
If they answer yes, well we have nothing else to talk about as I do not want to engage with people who believe anyone should be owned as property. Debtor/Criminal/POW it doesn’t matter.
@@oscarhunter3864 There was such a thing as voluntary slavery for fellow Hebrews and resident aliens, which is the debt slavery Christians know and love....but there was also chattel slavery for slaves from surrounding nations or people taken as captives of war. Christians often try to dress up the former as the latter and pretend it was _all_ debt slavery, which just isn't true. Though for the record, debt slavery would still be wrong anyway.
Cosmicskeptic is giving you a bad scenario. It's like he is saying God is someone who is pointing a gun at you and says
"Believe in me or you will die.'
You have the choice to reject it or accept it but if you reject, you will suffer.
But that is not correct.
It is like a judge telling you not to murder because it is wrong and then he tells you you will die if you choose to do it.
Or imagine yourself hanging of a cliff(imagine you were trying to catch something(sin) and you fell) and then God comes and tells you.
Believe in me or you will die(you will fall), you chose sin and you deserve judgement and you chased it and fell. He comes and he gives you his hand. Grab it as fast as you can.
Joseph Getnet who decided what is sin in this scenario?
well, who decided the rules? we didn't. what's the worst the judge can do? capital punishment in some countries. what's the worst god WILL do ?
Revelations 21:8 "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” which shows it is more than just separation from god but "Fiery lake of burning sulfur"
Matthews 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” which shows is is "eternal punishments"
all this for "sexually immoral" (gays, lesbians, people who have sex outside of marriage) and "the unbelieving" (atheists, Muslims, any other religion),
we do not find any of the things mentioned above as immoral in our society, defiantly not enough to have any punishment for it, but god will do : " consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur." " go away to eternal punishment". These are rules that god came up with that nobody in their right mind in civilized Scotties will believe in .
@@ASH-su6nb
Yeah if they're non-believers that is.
These laws make perfect sense.
@@davidnewhart2533 these laws make perfect sense for theocrat psychopaths' like the rulers in Iran or saudi arabia
But that is literally what the Bible and "god" is saying, believe in me and worship me or go to hell. That is not a choice that is an ultimatum.
If only Cosmic Sceptic can realize he himself is still a slave of his master, the devil....
yeah hes the slave of that evil bastard who says do this or burn i hell... oh wait that's you..
@@ethanellis465, if you think the "evil bastard" created you then you have a problem...
@@ethanellis465 take this 🌾🌾🌾. It’ll help you for your next strawman
Nope i personally dont see any logical reason to believe a magic sky wizard created me. Thx tho. I love you.
@@ethanellis465, if you understand how intricate and complex the human body is and think everything magically came together out of cosmic soup then you still have a problem. 😉
Love you too, hope you find Truth, it is a life changing experience.
thank you so much for this video I saw cosmic skeptics video and felt confused because I know that god doesn't approve slavery but I also thoought his video made sense and then I found this and it cleared everything up, keep up the good content brotha
he doesnt quite address it properly.. He continuously repeats the idea that it was all consensual. It was not. The bible says you may buy your slaves from neighboring countries, but later says that Hebrews could be the type of slaves hes referencing. These people who were not Israelites or Hebrews did not have the option. He conveniently leaves out the verses in this video where moses commanded by god tells the men to slaughter the men of the enemy tribe, kill the wives, and take the virgins for themselves. we can only assume the horrors and sexual abuse these women would of had to endure. They did not get a choice to go with the men or not, they were taken as slaves. Furthermore he acts as though they were treated just as workers paying off debt, but in the bible you are allowed to beat them as much as you want as long as they can get up after A DAY OR TWO. these points were not addressed one can only assume strategically.
@@bluelagoon228 Yeah, I like how he characterizes the prisoners of war as "bad guys" -- I guess it never occurred to him that they might have been just farming their land when these Bible-believers came in from other countries with weapons and offered them the "choice" of slavery or death?
Slave owner: Two choices 1) Submit 2) die.
Biblical God: Two choices 1) Submit 2) Go to Hell.
Barely a difference at all.
Christian God: “Repent of your sins and accept My Son whom I lovingly sent as the atonement to get you into Heaven with me to enjoy an eternity of perfect happiness and joy, or face my holy judgment for the sins you committed in this Earthly life.”
@@Nameless-pt6oj Put another way, "live the way my son did when I sent him to satiate my bloodlust in your place, or I will blame you for everything you've ever done wrong and send you to a cosmic torture chamber for the rest of time".
Your patience is admirable...
You're awesome ! ;) Greetings from Colombia.
When you actually read the Bible you find that the description of a “slave” does not fit the our understanding of a slave. The original Hebrew word translated as slave, should have been translated as indentured servant or debtor. Chatel slavery is punishable by death in the Torah. In fact, an employer must pay the workers at the end of the day!
Servitude only applies to Israelites stop lying for god.
@@Jambuc829 I can give you at least 2 verses saying othersise.
@@Jambuc829 they don’t even realize that there was no trinity in original Christianity, the god of the OT was left behind for Christ, who was considered the highest god of love. They aren’t even worshiping the correct god lmao
@@arthuranderson21 YHWH, the angel of YHWH and the Holy Spirit are mentioned in the Old Testament, go read something, I won’t school you, just look it up “holy trinity in the Old Testament”
Stop trying to sugercoat this whole Slavery issue please. Was it ever moral for one person to own another person as there property ? Yes/No
This is completely a hot mess. The Bible is completely clear regarding God's position on owning slaves from foreign regions. It is completely allowed and the harsh treatment of these foreign purchased slaves is seen as the right of the Master. All of these theological gymnastics fall short. This is crystal clear.
The Bible is clear that you can purchase slaves from surrounding nations, own them for life, pass them as an inheritance, and treat them harshly. The Bible also makes it clear that all children born of slaves are the possessions of the slave owner permanently. Debt slavery amongst fellow Jews is a completely different topic. You can't sugarcoat the slavery text... It's impossible to make Biblical slavery palatable. It's Evil and the Bible clearly gives the thumbs up on the subject. Just be honest and take the Bible for what it says.
Your analogy of your position as father and the authoritative figure over your children is simply not the same as God's position, for when your children move out you will not harm them for doing so (indeed, the children would have to move out eventually, wouldn't they?).
Also, though you stated you did not want to Romanticize Israelite slavery, you unfortunately still did. I will not deny the laws regarding Hebrew slaves were more lenient, but let's keep in mind that *only* the Hebrew slaves are treated more leniently. The pagan slaves, on the other hand, are still treated cruelly and like any slave would be in ancient societies.
Indeed, the allowance of slavery within Hebrew law should make one think that this is merely the contrivance of men to commit whatsoever they desire rather than being an institution propagated by God. As CosmicSkeptic pointed out, when God is against something he does not allow it. As it is, he allowed slavery. Therefore, it should stand to reason that God is not against it, rather instead promotes it.
On a side-note: Christian apologist videos like this remind me of Muslim apologists trying to justify pedophilia. This just goes to show that ancient man-made books should not be depended on for morality. They are worthless; indeed worse than worthless for they are instead a detriment to society. Slavery is a wrongful practice and I shall see no justification for it at all -- regardless if it is willing or not.
First off (as others have said) I appreciate your respectfulness. However I do have a problem with your analogies. Getting a speeding ticket and being tortured for eternity are two completely different things. I don't think that's a fair analogy.
Thanks for your comment!
Perhaps I could have made it more clear, but the analogy had to do with the concept of choice, not the content of the choices in the analogies. That’s why I prefaced it by saying “think about the logic being used here”.
Anyways, thanks for your comment. Glad to have you here!
@@whaddoyoumeme Logic being used is not the same as well I'm afraid. In general state-imposed laws are not comparable because we live in democratic societies and have influence over what the laws are, and can change them should they be deemed unfair or harmful. For speeding limits specifically the limits are there to prevent harm, to road users themselves as well as the surrounding infrastructure and people.
God imposed the laws himself as the final authority, with no say from mankind. And while some of the rules he imposes could be construed as beneficial to mankind, straight up "believe or go to hell" is not one of those.
And there is of course the proportionality of the punishment to be considered.
Being ordered to do something or die at the whim of an absolute monarch would be more apt comparison, although mathematically speaking any infinite punishment no matter how insignificant (and hell is not described as insignificant at all) would still be infinitely more severe than even the harshest finite punishment, so not even sure about that.
Your further analogy, with prison and "slave owner" taking in the cost of "slave" actions on himself also doesn't work, for that you'd need two different entities - "slave owner" and rule creator. If they're one and the same, you're back at the absolute monarch. And the bad things "slave" did are not even "objective" crimes like destruction of property, just not following his monarchs whims.
Crazyfan54 right tell him again
So person wants nothing to do with God in this life time but thinks they can stand Him for all eternity? Doing His will forever? If you are not saved & given a new heart heaven will be hell for unbelievers, might as well go to hell.
@@ferzinhaN Agreed. Based on their arguments, I don't even get why atheists have an issue with being eternally separated from God (what Hell is).
They could actually seek Him for themselves, but they don't, and then they make it seem as if us Christians have to provide them with evidence of God, when God has made it *_very_* clear that He appears to those who have faith in Him (even faith as small as a mustard seed), and are coming from a place of humility and honesty.
If any atheist, at this point in time, isn't willing to make an attempt to seek God in His terms, I don't know what to tell them.
I do pray for them, and I realize that God can absolutely work through us Christians and that all good things are possible through Him, but He also gave us free will so, at a certain point, the atheists themselves have to be willing to humble themselves and submit to God's will for their lives.
We are all slaves, it’s either to sin and the devil, or to righteousness & God.
Again: "absolute" and "objective" are not the same thing. Saying morality is subjective does not mean anything goes.
Proverbs explicitly justify beating of slaves. Just like spare the rod spore the child.
Proverbs 29:19-21 NIV
Servants cannot be corrected by mere words; though they understand, they will not respond. [21] A servant pampered from youth will turn out to be insolent.
12:45 Cosmic Sceptic is wrong about divorce. Although the Bible doesn’t condone divorce, it does allow for it in certain situations such as a cheating spouse. I wish he would have done more research
The protections only applied to male jews, for non-jews and women it was open season. If a stranger owed money he would be slave until debt is paid or until the Jubilee, Jubilee is every 50 YEARS...
Go read Leveticus 25, especially verse 44-46:
‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.'
What don't you understand about ''they will become your proprety'', ''bequeath them to your children as inherited proprety'' and ''slaves for life''?
Brother, I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your channel! God bless you, brother!
Great video and explanation! Don’t forget how God explicitly states in Exodus 21:16: “Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnappers possession.”
Slavery is slavery there is no good or bad slavery
The Bible says slavery is bad for Hebrews. For people that are not children of Israel, they should be treated as property and inherited.
“Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly. “
As far as the passage he referred when comes to kidnapping.
“Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession.”
Is condeming the act of kidnapping a fellow Israelite and his possessions aka (slave).
18 The sons of Noah who came out of the ark were Shem, Ham and Japheth. (Ham was the father of Canaan.) 19 These were the three sons of Noah, and from them came the people who were scattered over the whole earth.
20 Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded[a] to plant a vineyard. 21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. 22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father naked and told his two brothers outside. 23 But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father’s naked body. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father naked.
24 When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him, 25 he said, “Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers.”
26 He also said, “Praise be to the Lord, the God of Shem! May Canaan be the slave of Shem.
27 May God extend Japheth’s[b] territory; may Japheth live in the tents of Shem, and may Canaan be the slave of Japheth.”
If Noah was the chosen of God, and he enslaved his Hebrew grandson Canaan, does that suggest that God supported Slavery?
Also, when it was Ham who saw Noah naked, why was it Canaan who was enslaved to Japheth?
@@simonthorneycroft13391st answer yes it does. God of the Bible condoned slavery.
2nd answer is Canaan was enslaved as collective punishment to Ham
@@newjerseylion4804 I am not a fan of collective punishment.
Thank you for this video.
The slave "problematic" of the bible seems to be one those so called anachronism.
One of the central law of "slavery" in the bible is the Jubilee year (every 7year) where all "slave" are to be set free. Also, man stealing was punishable by death, even owning one.
I see slavery in Israel, more as a forced labor that double down as a way to avoid surpopulation in prison.
Women and slaves from other countries aren’t set free on year 7 though neither are children born during that period. And if the man wants to stay with his family he has to stay a servant….
Incorrect Exodus 21:7 and Leviticus 25:46 both endorse slavery for life.
I think you both have good points. I'm honestly more into economics and societal issues than religion, so I have no horse in this, but I am an atheist, and I think the bible could be pretty messed up in some regards. However, I have to agree with you here.
Yes I agree with you. As a Christian myself I find it hard to take in some parts of the bible without understanding cultural context and even literary devices used by the authors that wrote the book. So much blood shed and violence, especially in the old testament. This seems like a stupid analogy, but when I was watching the Borgias on Netflix it was really hard to take in some scenes because the producers decided to create the series in a manner that was accurate to the time setting, and their moral standards are different from ours (though I believe that Gods standards of morality is unchanging and is always going to be different from what the norm is in a given time). With this said, after reading and analyzing these violent parts of the bible I started noticing a glimmer of God's grace and mercy throughout these hard to swallow parts. I'm still learning the bible and am no expert by any means, but for now what I gather is that all the blood shed and sacrifices at the temples were not enough to wash away our sins-only by the blood of Messiah on the cross do we have salvation. Additionally some parts of the old testament also gives and insight of what it is like when man is left to their own devices, society apart from God = chaos and downfall of man. Long response to your comment, but basically agreeing with you that some parts are 😬😬
No one else has mentioned this at least not that I read in the comments.
Anyone wanting to know the REAL slavery read the 1st 20 chapters of Exodus that was the REAL slavery God was actually rescuing the Hebrews from.
At 12:50 - 12:57 Alex's argument is self refuting. Exodus 21:16 says "Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession."
Therefore, the bible is against slavery and yet it recognizes it for what it is in its day. The bible simply gives parameters to avoid abuses. His characterization of it in ancient times is very simplistic.
@@vejeke
*That's where the bible talks about kidnapping people. Not about buying slaves* The verse I cited, Exodus 21:16 says "whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession". So it directly addresses human trafficking for the purpose of selling or auctioning off humans for the purpose of slavery. This is what the bible says is prohibited. The verse you cited is referring to people selling themselves for the purpose of work or perhaps as part of a punishment of crime in the surrounding nations. The idea that the Bible promotes and rejects it runs counter to logical thought. Remember, the Israelites were slaves in Eqypt and it would make no sense for the bible to affirm this and reject it at the same time. Again, it is dealing with the issue of the time, providing boundaries against it's abuses.
@Smidlee socialism does not require the ownership of other humans
Amazed by the arrogance of atheists that "outsmarted" the Christianity presented to them in Sunday school and now somehow think they know more about Christian apologetics than Christians who have dedicated their lives to studying the Bible and learning everything there is to know about it...
Note: cosmic skeptic is not guilty of this, many of his followers are though.
This idea that God forever tortures those who reject Him is incorrect. God simply gives people over to their own ends if they choose to live eternity without Him. Imagine forever living in one's own selfishness, greed, sloth, lusts, pride, hatred, shame, hopelessness etc. That is hell, separation from God and love.
as ever it depends on which passages you want to pick out as "the truth' and then how to interpret them.
Most christians just interpret the bible to what they already believe, or want to believe.
No dont get it twisted, your god does torture people. He created hell and he created the system in which people end up there. Thats the equivalent of saying "I didnt shoot you, my gun did"
This is easily one of the best rebuttals to the slavery issue I've read! These atheists never seem to have heard about a guy named MOSES who was instructed by God to tell the Hebrews they were to NOT do as the Egyptians did for the very reason of the cruelty they endured! Also, slavery is NOT totally abolished. Believe it or not a judge can FORCE you to do LABOR as a means of correction. An absolutely fine example is the Amarillo Prison! Offenders can get a little extra sunshine if they work in a field under the guidance of prison guards on horses. Make no mistake, it's hard work but it's so rewarding for them because not only do they get the positive feed back, they get a reduced sentence. Not to mention the produce they grow is TOP NOTCH and often beats local grocery stores!
Thank you sir. These really help me to think, and learn HOW to think.
One thing that needs to be clear is that you are lying.
It was not voluntary. Chattel slaves could be captured, bought involuntarily, and bred into captivity.
If you have to lie to protect your beliefs, it is time to get new beliefs.
07:09
I apologise if I am misunderstanding you but I fail to see how consequences for speeding are comparable to going to hell.
Spending eternity being tormented is not the same as paying for a speeding ticket or spending finite time in jail.
College students probably here thinking, "Man if only biblical slavery was still around"
I get an uncomfortable feeling in my gut whenever I see this young guy. The Lord can reach the darkest most hostile soul. I'm praying for those who still refuse to see the truth. The days are short.
Even though I am not convinced by what you had to say. I still think that this is a well structured video and good response. So I am giving a thumbs up.
Treating arguments like a sport. Good you.
I wholly agree. Just watched the video and (at least on the surface), every premise (for the most part) seems to follow. I haven't sat down and looked for fallacies in it yet. However, I'm glad that I got a theist's perspective on it. I'm awaiting Alex's retort to this. (hope he has one)
@@samuelpandya i assure you that he does :P
Dude, Deuteronomy 20 has god explicitly commanding to take slaves (offer peace and if they accept, make them your slaves).
And to the culture of the time, if your god can command that you don’t eat shellfish, he can command that you don’t own people as property (Leviticus 25:44-46).
It's funny how Jussie is still relevant.
CS Lewis book, “The Great Divorce” explains it well.
Foreign slaves? Women? Any addressing of that? No? Okay...
Exactly
Professional cherry pickers
I have just finished an argument with a man who was not only ignorant and in denial, he was also too cowardly to keep his comment thread up,
“20 Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes,
and shrewd in their own sight!” Isaiah 5:20-21
He called me evil yet insulted me without reason, direction, or evidence , he called evil good, and called good evil.
Context makes all the difference.
Edit: Oh wow I’m so glad you brought up his subjectivism, I always find that puzzling and amusing, nevertheless very worthy side note.
Life was Given to us Cosmic Skeptic is basing this off of a humanistic morality based off of well being. It was sloppy but not disingenuous.
Zynn Findo
Subjectivism undermines morality all together...besides cosmic skeptic has already gone on record admitting that he doesn’t believe in right or wrong, Good or evil. That’s why it’s all so puzzling.
Life was Given to us how does it undermine ‘morality all together’ exactly? There is a robust system which does not rely on absolutes. That is all I have ever heard him say, no moral absolutes. This does not mean he does not believe in the concepts of good or bad etc or their application colloquially.
Zynn Findo
I would argue that it’s self defeating, Subjectivism entails that the truth to moral claims resides only in the mind of the one making the claim, for example John thinks x is moral, Caleb thinks x is immoral, nether of them can be wrong about what they believe because the truth to these statements is affirmed by the one making the claim , under subjectivism that would be themselves. It reduces good and evil to human conventions with no grounding to the external world. Also I think cosmic has a video titled there is no “good” or maybe that’s in the thumbnail pic idk it’s been awhile but i do know he’s argued against Sam Harris’s position of moral realism as well as having some back and fourths with rationality rules whom he disagrees with.
Life was Given to us I am not saying I agree with him. But it is certainly reasonable to argue that morals function on the level of societal and inter-personal interactions. This doesn’t mean it’s not connected to the external world, actions have consequences, it just means that these concepts do not need a to be bestowed on us by some other consciousness. These constructs are easily explained by the sharing of space and the potential conflict surrounding that.
Man it’s so interesting like honestly. Both sides suck at explaining their case. Thank you for making this video. I’d love to talk with all 3 of you lol. You did a good job of cleaning up what the other Christian was saying. He was lacking SO much information. Which is why the skeptic should bring up so many questions with so little understanding on the topic because of the lack of information that was shared by the Christian guy. If we Christians myself included could explain things in a way that people understand who did lemonade a lot of these questions that arise. Which is why I appreciate you going in and answering step questions kind of it’s more like you’re a debating in proving them wrong versus answering the questions which is what they actually need his understanding to calm their minds and abrasion towards the Bible.
So, he's complaining that he has to choose between following God and going to hell, as if both options were bad options. I wonder why he regards following and obeying God as a bad option. He has to prove why following God is a bad option if he wants to accuse God of offering us no good option.
You have to prove why following God is good dude. He already proved why it's a bad option. Lmao slavery. Women seen as property. Genocide. Ect. This list goes on.
@@ReformedThe thou shall not steal, do not do unto others what you do not want others to do unto you, love thy neighbors as you love thyself, give help to the poor etc, thous shall not kill, thou shall not make false testimony., And the List goes on and on
He actually ignores scripture. The Old Testament talks about regulations of divorce and Jesus talks about how these were only given for the hardness of people’s hearts. He ignores this
Or did not know about it but he needs to do research if he is going to talk like he knows.
"...the faulty assumption that (slavery) wasn't consensual and there wasn't benefit to both parties involved..."
Given that Lev 25:44-45 tells the reader to buy their slaves from the heathens around them, the claim that slavery was consensual in these cases is untenable.
Lots of things about the "Bible doesn't support slavery" argument are untenable.
"These guys weren't slaves, they were prisoners..." Are you for real? Man are you playing semantics in the most disingenuous way. Yes, they were prisoners and those prisoners were, in every sense of the word, slaves. They weren't free, they were traded and sold, their children and wives were slaves and they were inherited as slaves by their masters. They were treated as property in every way possible and the bible, and therefore God, condoned it.
After the invasion of Iraq, if we brought all our Iraqi prisoners back along with their wives and children, sold them in auctions, branded them, and put them to work, and allowed them to be inherited as part of the family household, would you be ok with that???
That's some damn loophole you've got there.
I think you are missing vital context to what is going on. Let's imagine your a Ukrainian husband and a Russian solider comes to your town and commits war crimes against the people in your town and against your family. The solider gets captured.
So you have several choices available to you.
1. Let the solider which isn't going to go down very well
2. Kill the solider but he is no longer a threat so you would end up killing in cold blood
3. Force the solider to repay the harm he has done though hard labour to yourself and the community.
Is option 3 a form of slavery. Yes sort of, you are forcing the guy to do labour for you wether they want to or not but you are not wrong in saying that he owes a debt to you and your community and that it should be repaid
@@pgpython...
You might want to actually read your Bible. The Hebrews were taking someone else's land because their God told them they could have it. Cause God does that stuff... a lot. So that makes the Hebrews the bad guys in your analogy.
But even if that were correct... (it isn't) We have this...
Leviticus 25:44-46?
44 As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves. 45 You may also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you and from their families who are with you who have been born in your land; they may be your property. 46 You may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property. These you may treat as slaves, but as for your fellow Israelites, no one shall rule over the other with harshness.
Which blatantly contradicts this young apologist claims here. 🤔
@@unwantedbs2571 you might want to read the bible more carefully because if you did you would find that Moses expressly condemned kidnapping for the purpose of slavery under punishment of death. Its fummy how you omitted that isn't it.
The only wars of conquest Isreal engaged in was in overruning the land of cannan. Do you even know anything about the Caanaites. Probably not but lets just say they would make the Aztecs look tame. The archaeological evidence we have on them is something that would make you feel seriously sick.
Good stuff! Please address Leviticus 25:44-46 in your videos. That is the most disturbing passage for me on the subject of biblical slavery.
Just deconvert. It's all bullshit anyways.
@@sliferslacker6763 You claiming this must prove it. That can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence - Hitch.
@@wilsonw.t.6878 Just keep believing in your talking snakes and zombies entering Jerusalem.
A theism You just keep believing that our ancestors are apes and we came from a rock rained on for millions of years. What a bimbo.
@@K1ngs4NDWR3TCH3S lol nonsense. A magic man that we can't see was bored and poofed all into existence. We dont know, therefore god did it, right brother?
Could any reasonable person read the bible and conclude there are rules by which one can own slaves? Yes. The idea that the God of Abraham requires youtubers to explain the Bible is beyond arrogance.
My parents , as he described an example with himself and kids, same when I was under 18 my parents had a say so of many life CHoices made before becoming adult but it wasn’t forced , it was guidance and wisdom passed down from their experiences in life as they only want the best for me. I had a respectful fear and love for my parents, did chores around the house even when in school and working a full time job I still helped my parents with various jobs/chores around the house. My parents gave me life ( along w allowance also) , a roof over my head , a loan for me to get a car. So what I did in my younger adolescent years was paid back ultimately however it was up to myself to realize this ! God also does not force you too do anything outside of your free will and right too choose that he gave us in the beginning times (Genesis) . Fearing ,loving, and serving(being a servant) to God Almighty is completely different thenslavery as we know it today!
Cosmic Skeptic has a serious authority problem. It is pretty easy to see.
Always question authority, it's how you learn.
I was eagerly waiting for min. 15.07 At that point a cosmic knock out took place! Please don't forget to remember them this all the time. My first clarification question for Atheists, agnostics and skeptics is "Why is it wrong?" Very good video!
Slavery is wrong because it allows for someone to be treated as property. Oh wait, I mean they *are* property. According to the bible, it's ok to beat your slave, so long as you don't take out an eye/tooth (Exodus 21:26-27), and as long as your slave doesn't die within a day (Exodus 21:20-21)
Dan D. Lion Watch it again. Minute 15
@@rocio8851 My answer is given with the basis of something being wrong if it invokes unnecessary suffering/harm.
Dan D. Lion If you are an atheist or agnostic you can't account for objective truth or for objective morality. According to the atheistic worldview why should I care if slavery harms or not?
@@rocio8851 I can account for objective truth using science. Y'know, shit that can be *observed.*
As for objective morality, that comes from the fact that we are animals, and as such, derive our sense of morality from animals.
I find it interesting that people who are so opposed of slavery, turn a blind eye to the actual slavery today in other nations that make their lives so much easier.
Most of the things he owns were made by slaves. So by his own morality, he only believes in corporate slavery, just not individuals owning slaves…well except in Arab and African nations…and for rich people who won’t let their illegal help leave. That’s what he is ok with.
I find it interesting that Christians engage in the most stretched form of what-about-ism in order to avoid facing the fact that their scriptures condone slavery.
I enjoy more this kind of work from you than those Kanye videos you regularly do. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for demonstrating enhanced cognitive capacity to explain difficult issues!
5:21 that was exactly what the motto of the rebellious slaves in St Domingue (Haiti) used to be..."Live free or die" ("Vivre libre ou mourir")...