Thinking About Gearing: Are You Killing Your Expensive Cassette?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
- @oldguyandabike has been planning some gearing tweaks with his 1x Mullet for gravel and for the 2x road, so here he thinks out loud about how he has been looking at this.
More madness to come as parts are ordered and theories become rideable!
#gravelbike #roadbike #cycling
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I converted my 1X with 11-42 cassette to a 2x 46-30 front. Only thing I had to do was buy a front chainring set and derailleur, oh and front left shifter hood, but the shimano GRX 810 handles it just fine. 19 gear inches at the bottom and 112 at the top. I think its just about perfect for this 60 year old gravel rider.
I did a 46/30 easton and a 48/32 Praxis for my bikes
From another old guy, my old Klein attitude is still a 3x9. Perfect range, small gaps and longevity.
Great discussion. Thanks for talking through it. I'm not a fan of big gaps in gearing front or back. With all the other recent changes in bike gearing tech you'd think there would be more options available as far as cassette ranges and or crank tooth counts for finer tuned rides. I can only see a 10 tooth jump on a cassette as an absolute bail out gear other wise it's going to be too big of a jump and uncomfortable cadence adjustment to use much. It would be similar to dropping a ring on the front of a shimano 50/34 as you eluded too. You drop a ring and then have to drop 2-3 down on the cassette to compensate for the big change. I hope you get something dialed in for the big ride you have coming up. Looking fwd to following along. Take care.
The big ride did see some preparations in gearing that worked quite well and I will be talking about that soon. But look for a deep dive into my 1x cassette journey for the gravel bike going live tonight.
gg
@@oldguyandabike Looking fwd to it.
I'm going the opposite direction on a mtn bike ( bigger c ring ) I want to see if switching from where I live ( 5th to 3rd ) prolongs my HD hub. Looking forward seeing what you discover and I'm so glad you are diving deep into this it's going to help me with my test.
Hey, thanks for the thoughts. They helped me take a different perspective on gearing. Just ordered a couple of different front chain rings to experiment.
Where your chain lives is a great question. I noticed I don't use 3 of the smallest cogs. Going downhill I usually just coast or use breaks. So I bought 11-40T cassette and modify it to 14-40T. Diched 11T, 12T and 13T. So now I can say I have 11 useful gears in the back. BTW my crankset is GRX 46/26 also modified. If nothing that is available suites you, then make it on your own. This option is available for Shimano 11 gears or less, which makes sense. If you use top tier group sets, then probably you have enough strength to use small cogs in the back.
Curious, how did you go about modifying it to 14-40T?
@@findtherightbeat one option is to combine M8000 with three smallest cogs from R8000 14-28T. You can also use M7000 and get individual cogs from R8000. I found just one internet store here in Europe which sells individual cogs. It is called Bike Discount, based in Germany. In second case you'll also need additional 1.85mm rings.
i ride grx 12 10-51 x 40 , and i dont remember using 51 even on steepest climbs as well as i almost never use 10t cog... but still i'd like to try 42 or 44 chainring
This is what I did, 40 to 38, leaving 11-42 on the back. Spinout mid 20’s mph now, but i don’t really care. Ill watch ur part 2 as well. I moved from 40 to 38 after my first bikepacking trip five yrs ago on Pacific Coast highway. Good info. I may go ratio tech 12 speed or mull over full mullet.
@@PerfDayToday I have the Ratio Technologies kit on Project Curly. Works well but I have not a lot of time on it yet. Used Rival 22 hydro stuff. Easy conversion.
gg
This old guy appreciates your posts !
Us Old Guys have to look out for each other!
gg
We do , we can’t trust the young guys 😂
@@oldguyandabikeWhat do you think of inexpensive 11-48T 10-speed cassettes? Microshift and Shimano both have this.
@@findtherightbeatshimano makes an 11-48 cassette in 11 speed? I know the 11-46 exists but it has a biiig gap up to the 46T. Never used any microshift parts.
gg
Edit : oh you said 10 speed. Sorry. No idea but I would say that is a big spread across only 10 cogs so it has to have pretty big jumps through the cassette.
gg
@@oldguyandabike Thanks. What do you think is the ideal maximum teeth difference between cogs?
Edit:
Shimano Cues spread:
11-13-15-17-20-23-28-34-41-48T
Microshift AdventX spread:
11-13-15-18-21-24-28-34-40-48T
I was thinking these may be good candidates for decent range paired with an apt chainring to lower the ratios a bit.
My Shimano GRX 48/31 works great, I've coupled it with a 11 x 42 cassette.
that's the same as me on my graveller, a perfect combination, GRX at the front and XT at the back
There you have it, notifications work
This is so refreshing. Someone actually promoting a 1x for then strengths of a 1x, yet also stating all of it's glaring weaknesses. Not shoving any one system down our throat. And not enacting justice for the executable offence of running a drive train outside of shimanos spec. Im lookong at you shimano police! Get a frigging job or something. Just informed information. I ride a 10-46 with. 48/31 for everyday riding (im surrounded by mountains), then a second grx 610 chainset with 28/46 for loaded touring.
Me, too, I feel same about brakes, both have strength and weaknesses.
Your video is spot on. actually summarizes exactly what I think. I run Sram T type on the back and 38t at the front on my gravel bike. also, I look a lot at the axs website, showing cog usage which helps a lot to see where you are at a lot, and taking further decisions.
I gotta' figure out that AXS website I guess.
gg
On my 2x road, i go for 10-36T and 43/30 at the front. gear choices is the reason I go with SRAM. I dont even consider shimano with their gear choices.
Wearing out your chain ring may be cheaper than the cassette, but it will wear out quicker because it’s always engaged in your 1x setup. After all, it too is aluminum, it faces the same chain angles, and it’s always engaged. Front derailleurs and chainrings are light compared to giant rear cassettes. So if you go 1x for weight, you might want to investigate weights more closely.
If you feel the need for the lightest giant rear cassette, and your terrain dictates that your big cog is most commonly used, ya just got to accept wear or shift to a materially smaller chain ring (which wouldn’t be my first choice).
A lot of folks feel the need to be equipped like sponsored racers - who don’t have to worry about wear. Just like a F1 car isn’t reliable for daily commuting, some bike gear isn’t made for everyday cyclists. And like the F1 car, it’s the most expensive gear out there. My take is if you want to use the leading edge stuff, ya just got to accept the costs. The alternative is to move down market (full steel cassette as an example) and be happy to ride. No matter the sport, you can’t beat the system. Having said that, it’s likely you won’t feel any difference with a heavier cassette, even one where the big cog is 50t or more.
My reasons for going to 1x had nothing to so with weight, just function for me and where I ride. Although I appreciate what 2x brings as well. Ran it for many years. My video on my thoughts on the Mullet set-up, pluses and minuses, is worth checking out. And a single 1x chainring is nearly a third of the cost of a higher end cassette.
As well, I never replaced just one of the chinrings in a 2x when it came time. So now I have the cost of two rings (or actually it's often cheaper to just replace the crank too) to replace, even if they do last longer.
As you say, trade-offs are part of the game. Pick your poison.
gg
More money, but what about 44/24 and 12/34 or 13/36 9 speed? Excellent chainlines in gears used on the flat. The cassettes are a little custom, but this isn't really too hard. Non competitive climbing, you'll be loafing up hills and down, you'll spin out. With a heavy touring bike, you just might not want to go faster downhill. One requirement is a clamp style Sora front derailleur and seat tube that doesn't flare much near the bottom bracket. The 20 tooth jump is just within the Sora capacity when paired with a medium cage Sora rear derailleur. The 13-36 cassette uses every bit of the Sora wrap capacity of 43 teeth but limits you to a small top gear and gets you 6% lower granny gear. Parts like this are relatively cheap and durable. Stock up now.
Big jumps in the front I find to be a problem as far as frequently dropping the chain while shifting
This goes for 2x too. If you're living the top half of your cassette, a 48/32 or 46/30 crankset would probably serve you better.
GRX 46/30 changed my life. I now comfortably sit in the middle of the cassette for most of the time vs the bottom half when on 50/34.
The discussion completely changes when you bring the Classified rear hub to the table. I haven’t tried one, but seriously considering. It’s basically a 1x setup with effectively a front derailleur in the rear hub.
Yeeeessss...it sure does. Very curious to see how that system is adopted. Or maybe even purchased outright by a SRAM type company.
gg
I run a KCNC 9-52 and the last jump goes from 46-52. Shifts fine with my GX derailleur. The 9 tooth gives a better top end without needing to big of a front chainring. I run a 34 oval. Monster Gravel Binary Havok (Titanium) with 100 mm fork and 2.6” tires so not much over 30 mph and generally in the middle of the cassette on dirt or singletrack.
My mountain bike still has a 2x10 and I went on vacation where I rented a 1x. The lowest gear doesn't feel low enough and it certainly feels inefficient given the chainline necessary to be in an easy gear.
I have a bunch of bikes which includes some an old 3x10 road group, 3x9 and 3x7 mountain groups. I still believe 3x, (3x9 specifically), would be the ultimate configuration. My drivetrains will from now on, focus on gear ratios and chainline efficiency and not necessarily the level (pricepoint) of componentry.
Yes, this is why I am choosing to go with Shimano for my 1x drivetrains for the time being (Oh, and also going with all 1x12, even for road). SLX 10-51 cassette is cheap, has consistent tooth intervals, and allows me to only use that aluminium cog when I really need it. I live in SF Bay and there's nothing but hills around here so I use 30 tooth chainring and even use the non-boost offset to keep the chainline more efficient on that larger part of the cassette.
Btw you can run several different types of mullet setups as well. I can run a 2x setup using shimano grx with a 11-42 or 11-46 outback depending on the derailluer cage length. Basically have all the range of gears in the world that i would ever need.
That would be me, 48/31 with 10-46 cassette. Perfect to not get dropped and get up the mountains. Then I have a second chainset 610 version with 28/46. Perfect for those mountains but carrying half my weight in camping gear.
Do you have enough Der capacity to maintain slack across that cassette in the small ring? That is a huge tooth difference for that GRX (assuming) to handle, even if it does actually shift into the 46T?
gg
SRAM has been making a 10-50t cassette using the same 11-42 gearing for years.
You have a choice to use a 50 or a 52t bailout gear.
I’ve found that the 50t is a smoother, more effective gear for climbing, as the 52t spins faster, but gets you nowhere.
Look into Garbaruk for less expensive, lighter cassette options. SRAM GX cassettes, are exactly the same as XO, 1/2 the price, and slightly heavier.
Yeah, I have a couple 10-50 SRAM cassettes. Much nicer spacing up top but I enjoy that 12 tooth difference in the 40/52 combo. If I run a 38T front ring, then a 10-50 retains that 12 tooth spread and gets me a tighter top three cogs, but I have a plan that is one step up from that. And I would not be surprised if SRAM phased out that 10-50 some day.
Garbaruk is on my mind.
gg
I bought a 1X gravel bike with a 40t chainring and 11-42 cassette. I was on the small cogs way too much and converted to a 2X with 50/34 chainrings. It's a way better setup and the drivetrain is quiet even in the 50-42 combination. I couldn't get the SRAM 1X rear derailleur that came on the bike to work in a 2X configuration.
No, they are not designed to work in 2x. That is a biiig cassette in 2x. What derailleur has that amount of tooth capacity?
gg
@@oldguyandabike APEX rear derailleur replaced by GX, works perfectly. I'm using an alt drop bar with MTB brakes and shifters, way easier than using road integrated levers like you did. It was ingenious of SRAM to make a derailleur that won't work in both 1X or 2X, I'm being facetious.
You need a triple crankset 😜
Just kidding. I switched all 3 of my road bikes to 46/30 sub-compact cranksets. Suits my old legs in the hills.
Ride whatever suits your fitness and terrain 👍
Hey! I think there are some sweet advantages to a triple! How about a 26/36/46? Super close ratio like a sports car...you get the middle 'driving gear' bookended by lots of range. Yep...never to be again, I suspect, but imagine AXS-3!
gg
@@oldguyandabike Yes. I really enjoyed using triples. Can't actually remember why I switched back to 2x. Maybe the introduction of compact 50/34 cranks (until I found they didn't go low enough / big jumps between gears at the back)
Believe or not I still ride an 11 year old Norco MTB with a 3X up front.
@@daveebert7747 Here triple also since 2001, and laughing at people with x1.
I think everyone with AXS can see the gear use % when you login to the web portal, if not the app.
Yes? I need to investigate that because I could not get it to work that way with the Wahoo. But I read that I should be able to. Hmmmm...
gg
Oooooo...figured it out. Element app will not directly link but I can export the .fit file and import it into AXS Web. Very cool. Thanks for the prod!
gg
Shimano crank: Grx. 48-31, or even 46-39.
You can get the e-thirteen cassette in a 9-52 which gives you 578% range
Yes you can. But pedaling a 9T feels horrible. Even a 10T feels rough, but if you are just there for a minute or two...not a big deal. I have not heard great things about the shifting performance of those, but I have no personal experience.
gg
Shimano's been offering a 46/30 gravel double since 10s GRX came out.
I ran a 46/30 2x for years on the Lynskey with an 11/36 cassette. Quite good, but I wanted one more lower gear for THOSE DAYS. Not a realistic option with SRAM and while a 46/30 and 11-40 combo in Shimano works well with no real downsides, I prefer not to use Shimano shifting.
But honestly, even with the warts of 1X, I doubt I would go back to 2X even if SRAM gave me a deeper 12 speed cassette to go with that awesome 43/30 crank.
gg
@@oldguyandabike Shimano mechanical shifting ergonomics suck, I'd rather run friction shifting, lol. I prefer AXS myself but have owned 11s Di2 and it was flawless (just not wireless, lol)
The lowest gears I have are on my mechanical Sram rando bikes 24/42 rings, 11/32 cassette, 11s. Personally, I find vintage components for randonneuring more appealing. But have ridden countless brevets with oldtimers on 22/34/46 triples with 9s 11/30 cassette and they whooped the young'uns on steep climbs with their latest and greatest.
No way to go with SRAM stupid gearing. Small jump in front, big jumps at the back. All of my bikes are 2by, with Shimano of course. And I'm using whole range of the cassette and chainrings nonstop here in the central Europe. Here is no few kilometres of the flat road.
The SRAM ID website will also show you time spent in your cassette, from my garmin headunit. axs.sram.com
My Wahoo does not list the AXS site as an export option so I just exported the .fit file into the AXS website. But either way. It’s pretty cool.
gg