What Would I Do With A 13th Cassette Cog For My Gravel Bike?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
- Thirteen speeds is here in a bigger way for gravel bikes and I am sure there is more to come.
@oldguyandabike has been thinking about the possibilities of adding one more gear to a 12 speed cassette and what that might mean for his needs and wants.
It's a brave new world, but do I care?
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I don’t want any more cogs, I would like another chain ring.
@@GADonMc yeah. I think we are in a 1x free fall going into the future. Chainline and bigger tires for gravel will practically demand that.
gg
If only there were a way to put a smaller gear upfront to give you more range....
I really am at the lower limit with the 38T. That is good for 30mph...barely.
gg
;) ;)
Good stuff, man. And I agree that more options = more better.
I can't wait for the triple to become cool again. The ultimate in gearing
@@hilltop1972 funny you say that. I was talking about that with an industry guy just the other day. It has its merits.
gg
Yes - So I was looking at his shots of cogs. Then I noticed the prices. The prices of each of these cogs is much more than I could sell my 90s triple derailleur hybrid bike. So this old guy is going to keep his triple derailleur bike and have more than 13 speeds. I guess my rim brakes will also give me a smile.
@@daniellarson3068yep. Remember when cassettes were 40 bucks, not 400?
Ah. The good old days.
gg
Why? Enjoy it while it's cheap
So you like it, you want it, but you won't use it until everyone else thinks it is cool? Free you mind fellow cyclist. Or be continue to be "cool" I guess.
Do not even google "Da brim". ;)
I run a 2x10 front 30/54 rear 11/48. Gives me plenty of climbing ability.
@@laneromel5667 your crank is a 54/30?
gg
@@oldguyandabike I think that is not possible on 105 mech. Just My 0.02.
I thought front derailleurs had a 16 tooth capacity?
@@wayneclement7201 Wrong
@@wayneclement7201 They used to shift Triple cranks, so they can do more. If they are designed for it.
gg
A narrow/wide tooth profile cassette means no more single tooth spaced cogs- not a big deal off-road, but is on road. Campy got the cassettes right with Ekar: 13 speed with half the cogs single tooth gaps. If they made a 2x Ekar it would be on my gravel bike.
That is right...in fact there is one cog in the cassette that is NOT N/W to make the math work on that T-Tyoe Eagle cog-set.
gg
@@oldguyandabike Interesting, not sure I understand why the math wouldn't work by having all N/W even numbers of teeth on each cog. My gravel solution was Campy 12 speed Super Record mechanical non-hydraulic disk with 50/34 11-34 - 1:1 is low enough for hilly bike packing if you're fit, with top gear equivalent to my usual 53/12 road racing gear. Smallest 6 cogs all single spaced. Almost pulled the trigger 5 times on Ekar, but when I found this Super Record combo it had everything I wished Ekar had. You can probably guess i'm a roadie die-hard campy guy (for good reason), and I'm starting to love gravel... Thought I'd never say that 2 years ago!
I’m 11spd and never leaped to 12speed. On my 1x gravel bike, I have a GRX and the Garbaruk 11-46 cassette. I absolutely love the Garbaruk cassette!!My chainring I’m using now is 38t and never really had a situation where my 38 11 combo wasn’t enough for my trails. I guess it depends on where you ride. I agree with you just changing chainings is how you adjust for different conditions. Personally my mountains trails are steep so I would probably just go with a 36t for some of my extra long climbs since the descent are just a matter of braking and seldom grabbing bigger gears for level sections.
I mostly hit the 10T on the road, but I actually was in it on the recent Lassen Gravel Adventure. We were rolling for long sections at 22+ MPH.
If I was a fast racer type, I would need a 44T ring or something. But, I am not.
gg
@@oldguyandabike I’m working on a 2X set up on my other gravel bike. That one gets more pavement but also needs to be able to climb steeps. I’ll be riding 10K Century rides on it.
@@hardmtnbiker Nice...I could always do the 43/30 SRAM AXS Wide crank as an option for All Road. A 6 tooth difference in low is pretty darn functional for me.
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@@oldguyandabike I’m going with 2 different Chainring combos. 48/30 and 44/26 both going to my 11spd cassette 11-34. I’m also going to try and get an 11-42 cassette to work but tinkering with Wolf Tooth’s “Goat-Link” or a Gabaruk pull/cage setup
@@hardmtnbiker I have used a 11-36, and 27/42 with ultegra 8000 and no mods. worked good. I don't pedal downhill though.
Look to e13 they make great stuff. You would probably like what they offer. 9 tooth is fine. If you can push that not decending you need bigger front ring. The 9 is the least used cog. But what you should like is the ebike cassette a 13-52 jumps are super tight and get your top speed from a bigger front chainring. That would be great for an allroad build
3:10 But Shimano guys calculated quite a time ago that 10-cog gears aren't effective any more and 11 is fine. Chain simply bends too hard on any lower ones. That's why they don't push into 10 teeth cogs.
Yeah. It is less smooth for sure. But here is a thing to realize...unless you are a real beast, you are really NOT putting out big watts into the crank when you are in the 10T. I saw some power numbers on a persons ride that charted that out and the watts in the 10T was really small but the upper gears were where the numbers happened.
Of course Shimano lives by the slide rule, even if it is great engineering numbers, it might not be what we need to make it work out there when we are actually riding.
gg
@@oldguyandabike ✌
I don't understand what you said at about 740. Did you say that you could live with a 1x and just "change" the front chain ring(and possibly the chain) if you need different gearing for another type of ride? Then you said, "how do you do that with 2x?" 🤔You don't have to-by definition. It already has 2 front chain rings to choose from. Right? Did I miss something?
What if you ride mixed terrain/elevation on every ride-as I do? Do you avoid those types of rides?
Is it very flat where you ride?. Are you not picky about your pedaling cadence?
Big thumb up-always a great conversation and comments.
Before the Mullet set-up I was running a 2x11 setup: 11-36 and 46/30. SRAM mechanical/hydro. Now how do I take that lower? There is no cassette I can use that works with that rear der. Anything lower than a 30T small ring is what? I really am not interested in some odd combination of third party cranks and friction shifting thumby things and those der hanger extensions that allow for deeper cassettes on road ders are not a great solution. I found that 2x was just not quite there for me.- But if I could have run an 11-42 cassette and that 46/30 crank with a modern, hydro SRAM shifter...I likely would have.
So although I could have gotten somewhat lower with GRX by going outside Shimano's 'box' of official combos, I really am not a fan of Shimano ergonomics. Just me.
It is actually very hilly where I ride, where a decent ride is 1000' of gain per ten miles ridden. I have a local ride that climbs 3000' of rough dirt in 8 miles and more like that than you would imagine. We don't really have 'gravel' here. It's MTB Lite.
Actually, off road I find close gear gaps way less useful than on the road. In fact, for pure trail bike MTB use, I much prefer wider gaps in the cassette but that is another thing altogether.
And you know what, I think for gravel bikes for most folks, much too much is being made over cadence changes. But I would have been on the other side of the conversation when I was a 2x guy (which I still am for road use...for now anyway). The more I use the Mullet the more I realize it just is not very important to me unless I was in some group situation where the pace demanded a close cadence spacing in order for a weaker rider to stay in the group and not get dropped.
I really have come to enjoy 1x more and more for the way I use a gravel bike. Even though it has its' limitations, it has benefits as well. And I think, in the end, and with gravel bikes running bigger tires over time and the coming rise of 13 speeds, 1X will dominate gravel.
Great questions though. Thanks for asking. And I am still working through all this as well and I do not claim to have all the right answers for anyone else.
gg
Give me a 9-54 600% cassette, 1x13 Sram or Shimano mechanical drivetrain and I would rush out and buy it. I would go for a 10-60 cassette also. More range please!
just use a front derailleur
Am I missing something?? I never heard if a narrow/wide cassette. Narrow/wide chainrings, yes.
Yes you are. The T Type cassette for MTB is narrow/wide tooth profile. That, along with other stuff, allowed for upshifts under full power.
gg
@@oldguyandabike I have T-Type on my XC bike and didn't even know that the cassette has narrow/wide teeth.
Will any company ever have the balls to finally declare "enough already!". You don't need any more g*d damned cogs. Go learn to use the ones you have.😂
The first thought I had about 13 speed is that when I went from 11 to 12 speed on both gravel and mountain bikes, chain life seemed to be cut at least to half of what it was. That being said, I still wouldn’t go back. But while going to 13 will definitely be a good thing, like you say, being able to go with 1x on an all road, but will chain life be even that much less again?
Interesting about your chain life. I have 2000 miles on the SRAM Eagle chain on my gravel bike and it shows less than 25% wear. But then I use a wax lube that is pretty amazing that way.
That said, I don't think that the new 13 SPD XPLR uses a thinner chain...seems to me that it was backwards compatible so I would expect chain life to be the same.
gg
@@oldguyandabike That’s good news. In the past the outer plates would have to get thinner to fit more cogs. I’ve been using SRAM gx chains and checking them with a Park Tool gauge and they just seem to stretch at a faster rate than what I was used to.
13 speed, 10-52, but back to 2x with much closer chain rings (eg 37/43) more to avoid cross chaining rather than for the range???
You know, I was a confirmed 2x guy before the Mullet, but I could not get the low range out of it in SRAM, maybe in GRX, but just so-so low. But you know, I have come the really like the Mullet and I can't see going back for gravel, and I think I would do a 42T/44T front ring and the Garbaruk 10-48 for an All Road bike.
gg
Great video-I do appreciate the options. But-I checked online, and saw a SRAM Red Xplr XG E1 13-speed cassette for $600 USD from a large parts retailer. OUCH. This is where I struggle. The cycling industry seems to be moving more and more upscale.
Yeah. Well Red is like Dura Ace. It’s silly costly for very little gain. I expect the tech to trickle down.
Another reason I am not an early adopter. $$$
gg
Another thing. There always has been upscale. Remember when XTR came out first mountain bikes? Maybe you don’t but I do. Wow. Deore or XT is juuuust fine, thank you. But the cost of everything is up and the bike industry is not immune
gg
@@oldguyandabike Absolutely. Personally, I'm interested to see what the drop-bar Cues products will look like. Pushing the envelope brings us products like Microshift Sword/Advent X, and hopefully a Cues cable/cable & cable/hydro 11-speed option. Sure, the jumps between gears on a 10-speed 1x will probably be significant as you climb up the cassette, but for kicking around solo, as a non-racer? Probably more than enough!
If you dont have a UID frame, you won't need to worry about a 13 spd cassette
UDH maybe? And the Turner Cyclosys is UDH.
gg
Are people really paying 300$ for a kasette that is fucked after max 5000k?
Whta makes you think it wears out that fast?
gg
On the sidenote, you don't seem to jump much anymore. Me neither, ocassional bunny hops if any.
You noticed that, eh? If man was meant to fly, he would not grow older...and wiser.
You may quote me.
gg
13-speed with Powershift...then the 46 is plenty short. Note that I am 100 kilos so the weight penalty can be saved elsewhere...
Powershift could be the real deal. Need to iron out a few things.
gg
With stock GRX 31x34 low your spinning at 5 MPH on difficult assents how slow our you going with much lower gears
That might be the math, but it does not tell the story. What RPM? What grade? Add in sand, rocks, ruts, heat, etc, and 5mph might be a blistering pace.
gg
@@oldguyandabike
When it’s going to be that bad i wear running shoes and just hike less stress on the replacement shoulder
14:22 I love racing the deer!
Ooooo...I wondered if anyone would see that! Good catch!
gg
I just went 1x12 on my new gravel rig. 42 teeth on the front 52-10 on the back. On the downhills, I'd take a 9 speed. I've only ridden it 300 miles so far, the only knock I have is I want more speed on the downhills. Otherwise I like it better than my old 2x rig.
Who ACTUALLY uses that stuff? C'mon old guy, there are plenty of bikes supplied with Campagnolo EKAR. I own one. OTOH I also own a Shimano GRX gravel bike with "only" 11 cogs in back. TBH I fail to notice much difference between the 9-42 the EKAR bike has vs the 11-42 on the GRX bike. But I wouldn't ride around the block on anything with SRAM on it so there's that.
The Cycle Italia gives you away! Of course, it is used, but in the broad marketplace it remains pretty irrelevant. Super-niche, really.
I found 1x11 to be pretty much awful for my needs. Not low enough and not high enough.
gg
Not enough cogs im waiting till we get 1x17
@@VYBEKAT there might be a pinion drive on your future!
gg
Why not just swap your 10 for an 11? Assuming that is possible.
It is a one piece cassette so the 10T is part of the unit. And I really need that 10T with the chainring I use. That allows for a quite good high end. Good enough, anyway.
gg
Lol, why not 14? 15 maybe?
I'm in...but it better be a gearbox. Not on a rear hub!
gg