@peakTorque, can you test chain efficiency and derailleur pulley arm tension? I believe it makes a bigger difference than people think. For example, a chain slightly too short will create tons of drag. Try this and you'll see what I mean. Flip your bike upside down. Big ring + middle of cassette chain combo. Now spin up the rear wheel. Take your finger and detension the pulley arm a bit (to simulate maybe a weaker spring in there or more links) and you will see that now the drag from the freehub spins the crankset because of the reduced resistance. Just something to think about!
I live in the Alps, I can hold 5w/kg for 1h power and yet I use a 34/34...if it was simple(r) I would go even smaller (like 34/36 or 34/40) for Z2...thanks indeed for the video, you are spot on! hope more people will listen to this, I find myself suggesting more and more gravel bikes to recreational cyclists due to gearing
I bought a wolftooth extender ( pre the new stuff ) and put a 40 on the back a few years ago. It's really a necessity for people over 85-90kg that ride hills with any frequency.
It was this channel that taught me about switching my 36t (on my 52/36) chainring for a 34t and got me round my first Fred Whitton two years ago (and up the Hardknott without walking) - cheers!
Do you run the 52/34 all the time? And, apparently zero issues. I have a Dura Ace r9100 mechanical 52/36 paired with an 11-34 short cage. Works flawlessly. That said, I ride in the Hocking Hills in Ohio. Many of these hills challenge me to the point I don't want to ride them at grades of 12% and much more. You make me really think about moving to the 34 inner chainring while keeping the 11-34 cassette. No issues in your opinion it would seem? Thanks.
@@davidparker8475 I changed to a GS ultrgra R8000 RD to accommodate an 11-34 and switched the 36t small ring for a 34t three years ago. Shifts perfectly and I personally don’t feel like I’m missing shorter jumps between gears. Having a 1:1 at all times is great. Cheap solution too.
@@alfaromeo1996 I ran the Ultegrra GS until recently and now use the Dura Ace r9100 short cage. Zero impact and works flawlessly. I ordered a 34 tooth chainring yesterday. Several TH-camrs and feedback from people (like you) have convinced me.
Another excellent PT video. No BS addressing common technical/mechanical issues not often spoken about. My takeaway after riding both 2x11 GRX and 105 for a few years: 1) Shimano needs to ditch their 110BCD ASAP for road, and 2) 11-34 steps aren't great on the flat. We mere mortals are much better off with =34. Something default in the ranges of 26-30 inner and 44-48 outer is what we amateurs are much better off with, together with 11-28/30 cassette. Comfort is speed in the long run.
Much to the amusement of the locals, I recently rode a few climbs in the Alps with my 39/28 as lowest gear setup, which was quite a painful experience. Though not recommended by Shimano 52/34 in the front seems to be quite common there. They also fit XT cassettes on their race bikes, so I think it's quite a proven approach.
Going from 50 to 52 is just 4% difference in cadence. I don't see how that makes a difference. I mean if they make me spin at 125 rpm I will handle 130 rpm too.
Using a 52/34 combination on a di2 setup, has been very reliable amd dependable so far. Chainline matters to me, and I can now accelerate out of a corner going downhill much better, without being topped out like I am on my 50/34 bike or experiencing the parasitic power loses of being on the 11T in the rear. Totally agreed with PT, having a 34T small chainring keeps me lower in the power and heart rate zones, hard data from HRM and power meter to prove this ;) Exact reason why I installed an 11-32 cassette on my rd-7900 (supposed limit is 29T) back in 2010, for riding with my friends in Colorado. History repeats itself. :)
Glad this custom setup worked out for you! I was successful with a similar setup for a 2x 10 speed gravel bike. So, 11-42 Deore 10-speed cassette, 34/50 crankset, Wolf Tooth extender, 9 speed XT rear derailleur, 10 speed 7800 Dura Ace shifters.
This takes me back to the early years of D2R2 in the US. Almost 5,000m climbing over less than 200k, almost exclusively on dirt roads. We bodged lower than 1:1 many ways, back when 39/28 was considered low. It was exactly about riding zone 2 on the climbs, otherwise most wouldn’t make it around the route. The event you cover in the video sounds super fun; that crux climb is bonkers!
Hurray! A cool looking dude who talks sense. Real good stuff. I was thinking about getting GRX but went cheap route like you to upgrade to 11-40 on an old Orbea Ignorre frame that came with Ultegra crankset. Nice work. First time I have seen your channel. I like it. I am 61 years young riding around Barnsley and into Peak District. Only been riding a few years though. But getting there. 😊❤
Re your GRX point at 06:30 , for the past 3 years I’ve been running a Grx 810 2x groupset with 48/31 up front with an 11-40 cassette with zero mods (I.e no wolftooth roadlink) other than the b screw dialled in. Chain is cut to the right length. Shifts perfectly and zero issues. This gives me an effective range of 563%.
@@PeakTorqueI picked up a GRX 810 rear mech from Merlin for 50 quid! 250g on the scales and nicer looking than 2 Wolf Tooths! I've just paired that with an eBay bikinGrren 46/30 on a 110 BCD for a gravel/bikepacking setup. Nice.
SRAM 11-36T 11spd cassette is also a no brainer with GRX other than a tweak on the B-screw. Didn't even have to lengthen the chain compared to 11-32T. Negligible increase in the steps between only the lowest gears.
Some of the best bikes I've ever had were a triple 22/33/44 and an 11-32 or 11-34 8 speed cassette. Mega cheap, unbelievably durable and super smooth shifting across a big range. I've currently got a weird 3x11 setup that isn't recommended by anyone but, like you say, you can get things working with the right know-how.
been running an 11-40 in the rear (just with a mechanical rx8000 and the b-screw) with a wickwerks 53-34 chainring up front for close to 6 months and i've never had any complaints, being able to spin up 12-15% with a 53-11 for descending feels great
Did similar years ago with Sram. Put a long cage rear mtb mech on my road bike, same pull ratio, and fitted a 42t rear. Run a 48/36 up front. No need for an extender runs like a dream.
Nice! I did the Fred Whitton this year and had the same realisation in January about staying in Zone 2 - I live in London but even then some of the 8% hills that I was training on, the cadences were impossibly low to stay in the zone. I fitted 11-34 and a super compact 46-30 to my bike, used it for all the training and the Fred, and got up Hardknott in one go while everyone around me was walking! Pleased to see other people coming to the same conclusion. I find there's a lot of dumb bravado about gear ratios, and granny gears...
I felt so called out at the end of the video that I almost spat out my Hefeweizen. Touché, Peak Torque. I have subscribed to the channel. Goals are great but beer is good too. Pogacar, himself, has been known to enjoy a beer after a ride (e.g. Amstel Gold 2023).
Uhm well, in Tenerife I rode with someone who qualified several times to the Olympics and he was smashing those brutal 26-30% segments going up from Masca in 39-25 😅.
I have 2 HC climbs basically in my backyard. Lots of strong guys here and I see plenty of people using a standard and 11-28 without touching their 28t. When I was still a strong cat 1, I was running a compact with a 11-30(barely using the 30) but I'm also 85kg when I'm fit. There are a lot of very strong people out there, but most are built like 12yr old boys and some of them locally are 12yr old boys😂
I'm running 2x GRX on my gravel bike, 46/30 front & 11/42 Shimano XT cassette on the back. No mods, no extenders (despite the stated 34t max cog). Perfect for steep climbs or loaded touring.
well done on the Fred, did it a few years ago and yes, I walked up hardknott....now .I have no issue with getting as wide a range of gears as necessary now, partly an age/weight thing, and agree that being comfortable and effective is the goal not how thing look or 'should be'....
Except Peak Torque speaks logic and how to do it at reasonable cost, the Path Less Pedalled would have you buy artisan $800 Paul Mechanical disks and boutique $500 friction shifters to achieve the same thing but worse.
@@comedyman112 Iam using 30mm in front just for aero benefits and rule 105%. I simply do not have that wide rim on front for 32 and i did direct comparison with 32 all around and i can not told difference between 32 and 30. Iam using rims with 25m internal width and GP5000 32mm measure in real 33mm and 30s measure 31.5mm so you can say iam using 32 all around :)
@@martinkroutil the “aero benefits” of 2mm less of front tyre width is going to be almost non existent. Also you by doing this you will also decrease comfort, increase road buzz / vibration coming up through the handlebars and increase your braking distance slightly. Not worth doing imo.
Its the rise of the wide range 2x, i have been running grx 2x with a 10-45 for a while. I have run a 11-40 in the past, it is a little bit sloppier than the 11-40 setup but still well within the realms of acceptable. There are things you can to do mitigate this slop. Im currently converting my hybrid into a drop bar gravel, it has flat bars and uses xt 12 speed 2x rear derailluer. Which will fit a 14t jockey wheel for guide and 16 for pulley. Plus a derailluer extender. The 1t more on the guide pulley, also after market so its a bit bigger radius than say a shimano pulley would be. Puts the chain closer to the small sprocket for less slop. The larger tensioner pulley takes more slack. Running grx 2x crankset with a 3x t8000 xt derailluer. This is all going to be substituted for grx 12 speed di2 in the near future. I need to work out if the connection with the cage is same so i can just swap over the cage. If not need to find a road cage that would fit thise pulleys. It requires a bit more care to setup. But you can get it pretty much as well shifting and reliable as 11-40. I think the pulley wheels are a bit more important in this setup. I love it. I bikepack the dales a lot, think hard knock pass carrying half your body weight. (May also over provision a bit too much but better to be prepared.) And then i use my bike for commutes, fast rides. And everything in between. Every single bit of that range is used.
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I did the same mod for climbing Jebel Yibir (UAE), around 5years ago. My RD was and still is 6870 di2 ultegra. The mods were pretty much the same as yours, so long cage + WT adaptor and an xt cassette. Worked perfectly!
Yeah. Same here for last year's Etape. Ultegra di2 mid/long cage rear mech, Wolf Tooth Roadlink DM and XT 11-40 cassette. Oh, and a Rotor 46/30 crankset! I'm 95kgs and don't climb well.
This is amazing, thabks for sharing. Have manual Ultegra myself but definitely going to give this a go. Shame it only came up on my feed a few days away from my big sportive 😅😅
I’ve been using an 11-42 cassette in these types of events for about 4yrs on the mechanical Dura-Ace and then on the DI2 Dura Ace worked fine with a Wolftooth direct mount roadlink without having to change the cage length. Get a lot of comments but I rather ride everything to the end than walk.
Great work! I'm running Eagle X01 Axs and Force brifters with a 10-52 Eagle cassette and a 48t front on my TCR Advanced. Works really well, so simple to ride. The only small caveat I've noted is that there is a slightly bigger jump in gear ratio at one point on the cassette - not really a problem as where I ride is quite hilly and I'm usually shifting a few gears at a time! Also running 160mm rotors fr & rr for more power and thermal capacity, which suits my super middleweight Pogačar 76kg😉
I participated in the Fred this year, at at 110kg dry weight, I knew I would need gearing assistance. I did find a SRAM 10-44 cassette that I mated to my 45/33 (with an XPLR RD). Made it up all the climbs, with the exception of around 20m on that really steep section on Hardknock due (to bike walkers not keeping off the line). Did run it in sequential mode to remove potential for small/small slack and it worked perfectly.
I upgraded to a gravel bike this year with 2x GRX. Could not make a steep climb at end of race i always do. My "old mtb" gravel bike had a 51tooth rear and 38tooth front, this allowed me substantial gearing to get my fat ass up the hill and also go fast on the paved sections. With XT derailleur instead of GRX i may be able to put a 46 instead of 34.
If you are lucky enough to have mechanical 10-speed road shifters (e.g. ST-5700), you can slap on an 8/9 speed MTB rear derailleur. RD-M3020-8 officially takes up to 40T cassettes, but is known to work with 42T. RD-M3100-SGS officially works with up to 36T. This is a shadow derailleur so it is more modern looking, but the range is more limiting It will shift all the 10 gears on the cassette since the pull ratio is the same. Bar a few exceptions where the pull ratio is different.
Rode the struggle today on tired legs and my 31/34 lowest gear was definitely not small enough! Will be looking at getting that xt 11-40 working with my grx 11 speed mechanical.
GREAT vid and agree 100% with the basic premise that road bikes are undergeared for most people that don't live somewhere quite flat. I live near the alps, love riding my carbon road bike (stock 50/34 11-34 setup) but I ride my gravel bike with 2x11 GRX and 11-40 in the back a lot for training in order to have that 30:40 gear to keep all the climbs mellow so it's z2 instead of lung busting... As well, I wish I could get a 31 or 32T front ring and a 36-38T big cog in the rear on my 2x12 Ultegra Di2 but the BCD limits the front little ring and Shimano doesn't make any HG+ cassette between 11-34 and 11-45 :(
I have 11-40t with rx810 and 52/34 up front on our tandem. It helps on the climbs as my stoker is not nearly as fit as me but still have the top end for the flats and downhills. Shifts like the 11-34 after fine tuning it.
This type of setup seems perfect for my gravel bike (aka my only bike) which I use for road riding, gravel riding and bikepacking. The lower gears would be perfect for climbing up steep hills when fully loaded bikepacking, the big gears perfect for fast group rides with my roadie friends. Needs to do more research before committing to buying bigger chainrings and cassettes, but pretty good insight overall from your video. Cheers!
I switched to 52-34 with 11-40 in the back last year and it's just phenomenal. Literaly all you need. Shimano should really think about officialy supporting this kind of ranges.
Here I already have a GRX-400 (10 speed) with a 11-42 Deore Cassete (yes, outside the specs of the Derailleur, but it works) and now I will put a GRX-600 2x Crankset with a 46-30d. I think for my power it will be the perfect machine for any terrain and climb. Also the parts are relatively cheap, including the cassete and no need for extenders. The only downside will be the impossibilty of get very high speeds on steep downhills, but I dont care.
53/36 front 11-34 rear deffo works on my Canyon Ultimate Rim with Dura Ace R,9100 short cage. Tried the combo out on the Matlock Top 10 route Friday and the easy gear was a revelation even up Sydnope, Bank Road and Riber. For Fred with longer climbs I'd try 11-36 rear (SRAM) which still works on my setup if careful with the chain length to protect from Big-Big drama. YMMV I'm under 70 kgs though!
I had a bike with Ultegra 6870 di2 11 speed with long cage which got me 11-36 on the back and 52/36, though I also added few links into the chain just incase. As a heavier rider it was great to keep in zone 2 on the steep.
When I was about 60kg and 220w ftp I was using 52/36 11-28 and doing 10% climbs in z2, just easy grinding at 40rpm and 130watts. Now I'm much heavier and less fitter, changed to 46/33 10-28, rarely even use the 48/10, but the 33/28 has been used once in awhile, though I mostly avoid routes that have 15% climbs or steeper lol
It's astonishing that 'back in the day' 42x23 was considered a low gear. Surprised I still have functioning knees. Ridden 'The Fred' twice. Walked Hard Knot both times. >85kg on a 35x33 with 6+ hours in the legs and it's no surprise. I'm currently considering my next road bike purchase and as I approach 50 a major consideration is gear ratios. PT; the voice of sense and reason.
@@pulser955 ah cool. I use 105 on my gravel bike which does serious chunk/singletrack too. I drilled another hole in the top of the cage where the spring hooks in to give a much higher spring tension. Works so good
@@PeakTorque Interesting I never thought about trying that. I did try putting an XT cadge and an offset pulley to see if I could go without the extender. But neither worked.
You could even extend your range by using an 10-42t sram x01 cassette. Shifts well with my XT M8050/GRX Di2 Setup. I really like my 12sp Force D2 setup on my road bike, but nothing beats 11sp cross compatibility. My gravel bike runs a X01 cassette with a modded XT Di2 RD (long cage & garbaruk wheels), GRX Di2 shifters on a Force crank with a Garbaruk chainring and an Ultegra/XT chain.
Just put a 36t inner chain ring on my DA 54/40 chainset. Coupled with an 11/32 cassette I can stay in z2 on climbs upto 20%. I just drop down to around 40 rpm out of the saddle, just using body weight very lazily to keep HR in z2.
I'm running SRAM 46/33 with 10-44T but since chain gets slack from 33x15, need to use sequential shift. Or if I don't need 46x44, I can shorten chain to remove the chain slack. If I really want easy gear I can probably fit 43/30 but cannot use Quarq powermeter since BDC gets smaller.
Thanks for the video. I‘ve used DI2 RD-RX817 for a while with 1by. With 34/52 was the chain tension too risky. Your setup is better. -- Your old 11sp trick with 34/52 doesn't work on 12sp Di2. I couldn't adjust it properly.
Funnily enough I’ve done exactly the same setup ahead of the Pan Celtic Race in 2 weeks, which also goes up Hardknott and the other major lakes climbs like the Struggle and Honister, plus Scottish beasts like Baleach Na Ba - but with a fully loaded bike! I have the same Dura Ace 11 Di2 groupset, and fitted the same 8050 GS cage to it. Have been running it with an 11-36 SRAM cassette which was fine, tried to fit the 11-40t XT like yours and it just wouldn’t quite give enough clearance on the 40, it only needs another 5mm but can’t get there without the mech hanger extender
I recently replaced my 48-35 crankset with a 46-33 version, paired with a 10-33 cassette. Sram AXS software shows you which gears you actually use, and it shows me that I just don’t need the 48-10 ratio.
Running Sram 46/33 w. 10-33 since years (lived in Switzerland, now in Bay Area), it’s a real climber’s combo! (even thinking about putting 10-36 for some climbs) 46x10 is more than I ever needed even spinning to 100kph downhill in some situations… Just increase the cadence a bit, for the few times I really need to use it…
Did the same on my 8 speed Kona gravel bike. Swapped from 11-34 to 11-40 and added an extender, total cost £30 and now have much more range. Also that bike at 11:51 with the tan side walls looks great, shame the bar tape ruins the aesthetic!
Love this, and finally a solid recommendation for getting a Shimano setup with a decent range of gearing. Still a big SRAM fan as I am running a 48/35 and a 10-44 in the rear with an XPLR rear derailleur and it works flawlessly. The only edge I’ll give to your setup is that Shimano keeps the smallest two cogs from being used with the inner ring where as SRAM defaults at just the smallest. But for any rider that’s even paying the smallest attention to what gear they’re in, this is not an issue.
Thank you for this, as a full sized 95kg human the industry seems to assume that we all weigh 65kgs and have no biceps. Due to the incline (California) the days with >10k of ascending are Zone 2 impossible, but the gearing helps. Older bike, so I have a 39x28 as my 'easiest' gear. One of the main reasons Im considering an updrade is to get more climbing range
The XTR 11-40 cassette is actually lighter than the Ultegra 11-34 cassette. One can also do something similar with the 12sp system. You will need to have one of those wheel/hub that can easily switch out the freehub body to micro-spline. Running 10-45 in the rear. Higher top speed and even lower gearing for the climb. Have this setup for years and run flawlessly.
@@siy01 I can't speak for the 105/GRX 2x as I don't have first hand experience with them. Although I don't see why not. I am using 9200 Dura Ace groupset on a Tarmac SL7. I have the same 10-45 setup on my tandem as well. On my setups, I needed the wolftooth roadlink dm as the b-screw on the RD is not enough to make it work alone. Chain length will be a bit of a trial and error depending on the frame. The 3rd smallest cassette gear combine with the 36 front chainring will result in lost of tension on the chain but you can use synchro shift and program that gear combo out to not run into it. Other than that, it just works. I have to add the disclaimer that YMMV though. Good luck.
@@e92zerorider93 Just so I understand, so you are using DA RD 9250 12 speed with XTR 12 speed 10-45 (CS-M9100-12) and a roadlink DM and a standard DA 12 speed chain cut to length, and then set up in e-tube as syncro, blocking the small chain-ring to smallest few cassette cogs combos? Are you running any behind cassette spacers() to make the MTB cassette fit your road freehub body? I use DT180 hubs on my climbing wheelset, so switching cassette body to a micro spline should be a no-tool job. Reason I want to confirm is that shimano (not surprisingly) says this will not work, wolftooth also says their roadlink dm does not work with 12 speed. And finally, the total capacity of the derailleurs will be hugely exceeded. But if it works, it works. =)
@@andreasolsson2336 Yup. Exactly that. No spacers needed. I have this setup on DT Swiss 180, Roval CLX II, Extralite HyperRear 2 on SL7. I helped a friend to have this setup with the Roval Terra on an SL7 to the surprise of the local bike shop that put the parts on and reluctantly admitted that it works at the end. I also have this setup on White Industry on a tandem. Full disclosure that I have to say is YMMV as it might depends on the chainstay length and your frame variation. As one would expect, this is outside the recommended tolerances of the manufacturers. The margin that one get to work with is small and the adjustment/fine tuning is a bit of a trial. Also cross chaining would be noisier than the oem DA setup (as expected) so depends on how sensitive you are to drive train noise this might affect you. But it works. My wife has been running this setup on her SL7 for 2 years and just finished the Mammoth Gran Fondo with it the past weekend.
For the non-mechanical amongst us; you could just get a Di2 Ultegra GS RD and plug it straight in? I use two quick links straddling a standard link on my chain when I want to run an 11-36/52-34 setup (Stronglight chainrings replacing Shimano work ok in this combination) and take the extra link out when I swap back to 11-28/11-30 on the back.
I run a 50-34 in front and 11-36 in back, chain a bit tight. If I wanted to try a 52-34 for higher sprinting speed you reckon I could use that trick to add 2 links ? I don't want to change already my recent (waxed) chains.
Link in description goes to SLX cassette but you mentioned XT. I ride XT M8000 11-42 on gravel with GRX812 it's great and light with two alu spiders. Btw smaller cogs wear out faster and they sell new one separately so it's a good way to extend life of the cassette (which I did).
So true. I'm a 68kg lightweight. 8 to 10% is pretty standard here. We have the odd pinches of 12/13% on usual routes and if I go looking we do have 20 to 25% climbs. Anyway I have a 34x32 gearing and at 180 to 200w's(my Z2) often I find myself doing 55rpms for extended periods. And I'm thinking if I was the average 75 to 80kg guy( who for some reason wouldn't be seen dead on anything under a 36x30 as their lowest gear) I'd be in the 40's!
Spooky....I tried... on a 2019 TCR DA 9120 52 34 11 34 yesterday. Dialled chain length. . Shifted fine. Big big worked in stand and on road as did small small. No hanger extension. Just made sure limit screw on front mech was super close to chain on small ring... I was left wondering why I need to go for a new 12 speed bike.
I've got a shimano 105 11speed 52/34 mated to an 11/42 cassette using the stock 105 long cage rear derailleur without a wolf tooth. Yes, the chain is longer though. I am older & a weakling 😂
That's exactly what I was thinking about the long cage, too heavy, too many chain links! :) And anything beyond 28 cogs is cheating :) Cool jersey Alex! And nice work going up the pass!
@PeakTorque I've searched all over online for this answer maybe you can educate a ludite like myself. Would I be able to drop in a spare I have 105 12spd 11-36 on my DuraAce 9250 RD? Currently running a 11-34 DA casette but could really use some more upper range. Just can't find any info if I'd need an extender or to modify the cage or it would barely squeek in.
Great info. Very relatable! I'm 87kg (Fat MVDP?) and am also riding 9170. Currently running an 11-30 cassette with a 52-36 mid-compact. Keen to try an 11-34 for the steeper climbs. Guess I would just need a mech extender?
Currently running Grx 2x on my alloy Trek domane. 48/30 front 11/36 rear (12 speed) What a difference its made for the climbs hauling my fat ass around Yorkshire dales! Wonder if i could fit an even larger cassette on the rear?
I love the 11-40 mod and the whole philosophy around gearing. Sort of the quiver killer of hilly roadie gearing. I have some questions about the rear mech however: is it really necessary to change the cage especially since the Sunrace Extended link takes care of the b-adjustment under the 40 cog, and since Di2 blocks out the 11 & 12 cog. From my experience with 1x set ups, the slant of the parallelogram determines the cassette range (hence 1x derailleurs with short or mediumish cages) which can be increased with with a hanger extender, while the tooth difference between the chainrings determines the hanger length. I suppose if you're running a 52/34 that's a bigger jump than the standard 16 tooth one, but not by much. In any case just a nerdy thing to wonder about. I used to swap out to short cage on my Deore rear derailleurs (greatest 8/9/10s derailleur of all time) simply because the slant could handle an 11-36 without any issue, and when run with a double, say 50/34, the long cage was simply excessive. I could swap 105 hangers, and it would be plenty sufficient and a lot more tidy.
Yes. I tried with just the short cage and it does not have the slack capability of a GS cage. It worked, but i had to use synchro shift to pseudo block out gears. And i hate using synchro shift!
I run 11-36 (50/34) on a 105 r7000 myself and could definitely see myself using something even easier. I don't see why I would not be able to replicate your setup with that groupset. I can get up most climbs here in upper zone 2 if I want to drop my cadence below 75/70, but usually my long rides include some small efforts as well and I don't prescribe to the notion that everything over zone 2 is poison to the workout, so I don't stress it. Would I be living in an area like yours, I would do the same as you did. Also great for bikepacking.
Absolutely. They either don't listen, or are saving it for the next unnecessary 13/14 speed wireless groupsets. Its pretty shameful really. The last latest and greatest GRX X2 got a paltry 2 tooth upgrade on the cassette.
@@richardmiddleton7770 Do you mean fit a 30T GRX to a normal road chainset? Does that even work with the BCD? Not sure it would work on my 34/50 R7000 chainset....
@@ArdGeal i agree. But I take his point. A subcompact 12 speed shimano crank with a road chainline would be great. Like a 46/34. There is actually a 46/36 in Ultegra/Dura Ace 12 speed
I almost needed a hot day cassette today!!! I just finished a flat, 2hr "z2" ride at altitude and it was 104F. Z2 is typically 210-230w for me at this altitude with a 130-140hr. Today? 185w and a 145-155hr😂
You probably don't need the derailleur hanger extender. I did the same thing but on an Ultegra 11 speed di2 with a medium size derailleur cage. Absolute black 48-32 oval chainring on the front and sunrace 11-40t cassette. I didn't need the derailleur hanger extender though. It degrades the shifting performance when I tried it. Instead, I swapped out the b-screw for a longer one and made the necessary adjustments, and it shifts much better than when I was using the wolftooth extender.
Being from the old school of equipment were everything went with everything. It annoys me now this streaming into one group to use. Not always practical. Campag largest cassette 11sp is a 32t. A Taurus. I use at present a 11sp Chorus from 2015 with a wolf tooth on a 50x34 chainset. Works fine. I rode Peaks challenge here in Australia this year. I am 74 and do need smaller gears on the long steep bits 34x32 is getting a bit of an ask now. I am tempted to put a Shimano cassette body on my Zonda wheels and a 105 or Sunrace cassette 12 to 36 11speed. Not changing the Chorus Rear Mech or the shift levers.or even the front mech and Chainset. Will it work, I might give it a try its a cheaper work around than a whole new groupset. As I have said this streaming into specific manufacturers annoys me somewhat, and is a industry ploy for sales. All my old steelies have all sorts of stuff on them and play well together as they should. Wish me luck.
I love my gravel bike with grx di2 48/31 front, 11-40 back. Grx di2 works without any modification! Can climb anything (and I’m not small person, too), 2x11 is decent. This setting is awesome. U won’t find any 12 speed cassettes with an 11-40 option, what an f…king development/evolution.
Like yourself unless I enter the Fred Whitton I will probably never need that gearing myself. Done Majorca 312 on a 50/34 11-34 which was the right decision saved the old legs Hear in Blighty I run 54/40 and 11-34 great for top end speed and well being 85kgs perfect for the limps and bumps locally
I’m 93kg, 300w FTP and some of the hills in my area are way too steep to stay in Z2 (top is about 240w). Some of them I find myself needing to sustain 350-450w to keep a descent cadence and it of course puts my HR at 90%+ of peak. I ride 12sp Ultegra Di2, smallest gear is 36-30, but definitely need a 34 or bigger on the back.
Shimano sorely lacking an 11-40 12 speed HG cassette to split the difference between the 11-36 and the 10-45. Surprised they didn’t drop this with GRX 12sp 2x recently as a smooth upgrade path for ppl without microspline hubs.
Funny how the £10 shimano megarange freewheels sort of get around the big-range-but-big-jumps-between-gears issue by having a significantly larger low gear then more closely spaced high gears. This might be possible with Miche cassettes as you can buy every sprocket individually and build any cassette you like, compared to a lot of Shimano ones that have 3 gears on a spider etc. Shifting might suck if you DIY with a Miche and the ramps are out of place though.
Yes, i ride with SLX cassettes with Sram and PT 180…. @peaktorque could you fit a deore XT or xtr (m9000series) cage on your di2 dura ace derailleur to avoid the sunrace extension?
I used to run a R7000-GS mech with the G pulley replaced with a Wolftooth Wolfcage pully (offset pulley) this allowed for a 42t XT cassette to be used without any other mods I just checked now and Wolftooth have discontented this product... iv emailed them to double check. what a shame
What if you add the Classified system on top of the regular 11-34 cassette and 52/34 front? Would be rather interesting to find a similar combo using GRX groupsets
I ran that on my gravel bike (44 possible ratios). It was over torquing the reduction gear according to classified but it worked really well. Just a bit baffling having so many ratios and a lot of extra weight carrying around both systems.
@@PeakTorque yeah I’d imagine it’s easy to lose track of which gear you’re in or when to change what gear. Maybe 1x + wide range cassette would be the best option, but as far as I know classified’s gravel cassettes only go up to 11-34
I'm still looking for an SGS cage that I can mount on my Ultegra 8000 mech rear derailleur. I've been running a 50-34 front and 11-40 cassette but would like an 11-46 cassette. I've considered changing to a 48-31 GRX crank but I'd prefer not to since I've already got a Stages Ultegra left side crankarm and the GRX crank has a wider chainline maybe necessitating a front derailleur change.
A couple of questions, as I said on the last vid I am 100% going to do this. 1 what is the spacer needed for the XT cassette? 2 For the chain sizing to be perfect did you go for big big plus 2 links or something more exact? 3 regarding rear cassette sizing is it just physics? Eg if tdf pro is say 70kg and I am 100kg do I need a 30% bigger rear chain ring? Many thanks in advance!
The spacer would be “1.85mm HG cassette spacer”. For sizing the chain, that method is open to errors. The only way to do it safely is use the chain on big, big AND run through the derailleur and cage and size it so the lower cage is not quite fully pulled tight.
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Whaaa, my comment as first is gone!haha
Yes sir!
@peakTorque, can you test chain efficiency and derailleur pulley arm tension? I believe it makes a bigger difference than people think. For example, a chain slightly too short will create tons of drag.
Try this and you'll see what I mean. Flip your bike upside down. Big ring + middle of cassette chain combo. Now spin up the rear wheel. Take your finger and detension the pulley arm a bit (to simulate maybe a weaker spring in there or more links) and you will see that now the drag from the freehub spins the crankset because of the reduced resistance. Just something to think about!
Peak Torque. A voice of reason in the madness of the fashion industry masquerading with bicycles.
1. A voice of reason
2. Running Dura Ace
Choose one.
@@Hidetogy 3. Got it at a silly huge discount the day 12sp was announced!
I live in the Alps, I can hold 5w/kg for 1h power and yet I use a 34/34...if it was simple(r) I would go even smaller (like 34/36 or 34/40) for Z2...thanks indeed for the video, you are spot on! hope more people will listen to this, I find myself suggesting more and more gravel bikes to recreational cyclists due to gearing
I bought a wolftooth extender ( pre the new stuff ) and put a 40 on the back a few years ago. It's really a necessity for people over 85-90kg that ride hills with any frequency.
It was this channel that taught me about switching my 36t (on my 52/36) chainring for a 34t and got me round my first Fred Whitton two years ago (and up the Hardknott without walking) - cheers!
Do you run the 52/34 all the time? And, apparently zero issues. I have a Dura Ace r9100 mechanical 52/36 paired with an 11-34 short cage. Works flawlessly. That said, I ride in the Hocking Hills in Ohio. Many of these hills challenge me to the point I don't want to ride them at grades of 12% and much more. You make me really think about moving to the 34 inner chainring while keeping the 11-34 cassette. No issues in your opinion it would seem? Thanks.
@@davidparker8475 I changed to a GS ultrgra R8000 RD to accommodate an 11-34 and switched the 36t small ring for a 34t three years ago. Shifts perfectly and I personally don’t feel like I’m missing shorter jumps between gears. Having a 1:1 at all times is great. Cheap solution too.
@@alfaromeo1996 I ran the Ultegrra GS until recently and now use the Dura Ace r9100 short cage. Zero impact and works flawlessly. I ordered a 34 tooth chainring yesterday. Several TH-camrs and feedback from people (like you) have convinced me.
Another excellent PT video. No BS addressing common technical/mechanical issues not often spoken about.
My takeaway after riding both 2x11 GRX and 105 for a few years: 1) Shimano needs to ditch their 110BCD ASAP for road, and 2) 11-34 steps aren't great on the flat.
We mere mortals are much better off with =34.
Something default in the ranges of 26-30 inner and 44-48 outer is what we amateurs are much better off with, together with 11-28/30 cassette. Comfort is speed in the long run.
Much to the amusement of the locals, I recently rode a few climbs in the Alps with my 39/28 as lowest gear setup, which was quite a painful experience. Though not recommended by Shimano 52/34 in the front seems to be quite common there. They also fit XT cassettes on their race bikes, so I think it's quite a proven approach.
Going from 50 to 52 is just 4% difference in cadence. I don't see how that makes a difference. I mean if they make me spin at 125 rpm I will handle 130 rpm too.
Using a 52/34 combination on a di2 setup, has been very reliable amd dependable so far. Chainline matters to me, and I can now accelerate out of a corner going downhill much better, without being topped out like I am on my 50/34 bike or experiencing the parasitic power loses of being on the 11T in the rear.
Totally agreed with PT, having a 34T small chainring keeps me lower in the power and heart rate zones, hard data from HRM and power meter to prove this ;) Exact reason why I installed an 11-32 cassette on my rd-7900 (supposed limit is 29T) back in 2010, for riding with my friends in Colorado. History repeats itself. :)
Glad this custom setup worked out for you! I was successful with a similar setup for a 2x 10 speed gravel bike. So, 11-42 Deore 10-speed cassette, 34/50 crankset, Wolf Tooth extender, 9 speed XT rear derailleur, 10 speed 7800 Dura Ace shifters.
This takes me back to the early years of D2R2 in the US. Almost 5,000m climbing over less than 200k, almost exclusively on dirt roads. We bodged lower than 1:1 many ways, back when 39/28 was considered low. It was exactly about riding zone 2 on the climbs, otherwise most wouldn’t make it around the route. The event you cover in the video sounds super fun; that crux climb is bonkers!
Hurray! A cool looking dude who talks sense. Real good stuff. I was thinking about getting GRX but went cheap route like you to upgrade to 11-40 on an old Orbea Ignorre frame that came with Ultegra crankset. Nice work. First time I have seen your channel. I like it. I am 61 years young riding around Barnsley and into Peak District. Only been riding a few years though. But getting there. 😊❤
Re your GRX point at 06:30 , for the past 3 years I’ve been running a Grx 810 2x groupset with 48/31 up front with an 11-40 cassette with zero mods (I.e no wolftooth roadlink) other than the b screw dialled in. Chain is cut to the right length. Shifts perfectly and zero issues. This gives me an effective range of 563%.
Same for me but 11s 105 shimano. Perfect on a trek domane
Yeh grx 2x can go easy to 40t with no mods. But i didnt have grx, i had dura ace on a road bike!
I also have this very same setup with zero issues for over 2 years now
@@PeakTorqueI picked up a GRX 810 rear mech from Merlin for 50 quid! 250g on the scales and nicer looking than 2 Wolf Tooths!
I've just paired that with an eBay bikinGrren 46/30 on a 110 BCD for a gravel/bikepacking setup. Nice.
SRAM 11-36T 11spd cassette is also a no brainer with GRX other than a tweak on the B-screw. Didn't even have to lengthen the chain compared to 11-32T. Negligible increase in the steps between only the lowest gears.
Some of the best bikes I've ever had were a triple 22/33/44 and an 11-32 or 11-34 8 speed cassette. Mega cheap, unbelievably durable and super smooth shifting across a big range. I've currently got a weird 3x11 setup that isn't recommended by anyone but, like you say, you can get things working with the right know-how.
been running an 11-40 in the rear (just with a mechanical rx8000 and the b-screw) with a wickwerks 53-34 chainring up front for close to 6 months and i've never had any complaints, being able to spin up 12-15% with a 53-11 for descending feels great
Did similar years ago with Sram. Put a long cage rear mtb mech on my road bike, same pull ratio, and fitted a 42t rear. Run a 48/36 up front. No need for an extender runs like a dream.
Nice! I did the Fred Whitton this year and had the same realisation in January about staying in Zone 2 - I live in London but even then some of the 8% hills that I was training on, the cadences were impossibly low to stay in the zone. I fitted 11-34 and a super compact 46-30 to my bike, used it for all the training and the Fred, and got up Hardknott in one go while everyone around me was walking! Pleased to see other people coming to the same conclusion. I find there's a lot of dumb bravado about gear ratios, and granny gears...
I used this cassette for the 3 peaks cyclocross. With Grx 2 x groupset and no wolf tooth extender, works great with a slightly longer b screw.
I felt so called out at the end of the video that I almost spat out my Hefeweizen. Touché, Peak Torque. I have subscribed to the channel.
Goals are great but beer is good too. Pogacar, himself, has been known to enjoy a beer after a ride (e.g. Amstel Gold 2023).
wait for the people living in boring pancake flat places telling you they can climb just fine in 39-25
So could i when i was 21 and dumb 😂
Uhm well, in Tenerife I rode with someone who qualified several times to the Olympics and he was smashing those brutal 26-30% segments going up from Masca in 39-25 😅.
I have 2 HC climbs basically in my backyard. Lots of strong guys here and I see plenty of people using a standard and 11-28 without touching their 28t. When I was still a strong cat 1, I was running a compact with a 11-30(barely using the 30) but I'm also 85kg when I'm fit. There are a lot of very strong people out there, but most are built like 12yr old boys and some of them locally are 12yr old boys😂
people who don’t live in san francisco shouldn’t talk about climbing
@@janemf plenty of SF hipsters climb their steepest streets in jean shorts with vans and toe cages😂
I'm running 2x GRX on my gravel bike, 46/30 front & 11/42 Shimano XT cassette on the back. No mods, no extenders (despite the stated 34t max cog). Perfect for steep climbs or loaded touring.
well done on the Fred, did it a few years ago and yes, I walked up hardknott....now .I have no issue with getting as wide a range of gears as necessary now, partly an age/weight thing, and agree that being comfortable and effective is the goal not how thing look or 'should be'....
Is this agreement I see between Peak Torque and Path Less Pedaled? Never thought I'd see the day.
Its peak torque getting older for sure
@@PeakTorque lol Father time is the toughest opponent we all have to deal with
Except Peak Torque speaks logic and how to do it at reasonable cost, the Path Less Pedalled would have you buy artisan $800 Paul Mechanical disks and boutique $500 friction shifters to achieve the same thing but worse.
Mid life torque
@@orsations Lack of Torque
This is such a great idea. My current road bike has me blowing up on consistent grades over 8% and there're plenty around me.
Thumbs up for 32+30mm GP5000 combo. I have been using this combo with latex tubes for years for absolutely everything and it is just awesome.
Why is it better than 32 all around?
@@comedyman112 Iam using 30mm in front just for aero benefits and rule 105%. I simply do not have that wide rim on front for 32 and i did direct comparison with 32 all around and i can not told difference between 32 and 30. Iam using rims with 25m internal width and GP5000 32mm measure in real 33mm and 30s measure 31.5mm so you can say iam using 32 all around :)
They puncture too easy with tubes.
@@martinkroutil the “aero benefits” of 2mm less of front tyre width is going to be almost non existent. Also you by doing this you will also decrease comfort, increase road buzz / vibration coming up through the handlebars and increase your braking distance slightly. Not worth doing imo.
@@siy01huh?
I did the same with my bike going to the dolomites. 11-42 rear and with a medium mec! with 34 52 front and 180 discs. the best combo!!
Its the rise of the wide range 2x, i have been running grx 2x with a 10-45 for a while. I have run a 11-40 in the past, it is a little bit sloppier than the 11-40 setup but still well within the realms of acceptable. There are things you can to do mitigate this slop. Im currently converting my hybrid into a drop bar gravel, it has flat bars and uses xt 12 speed 2x rear derailluer. Which will fit a 14t jockey wheel for guide and 16 for pulley. Plus a derailluer extender. The 1t more on the guide pulley, also after market so its a bit bigger radius than say a shimano pulley would be. Puts the chain closer to the small sprocket for less slop. The larger tensioner pulley takes more slack. Running grx 2x crankset with a 3x t8000 xt derailluer. This is all going to be substituted for grx 12 speed di2 in the near future. I need to work out if the connection with the cage is same so i can just swap over the cage. If not need to find a road cage that would fit thise pulleys. It requires a bit more care to setup. But you can get it pretty much as well shifting and reliable as 11-40. I think the pulley wheels are a bit more important in this setup. I love it. I bikepack the dales a lot, think hard knock pass carrying half your body weight. (May also over provision a bit too much but better to be prepared.) And then i use my bike for commutes, fast rides. And everything in between. Every single bit of that range is used.
I did the same mod for climbing Jebel Yibir (UAE), around 5years ago. My RD was and still is 6870 di2 ultegra. The mods were pretty much the same as yours, so long cage + WT adaptor and an xt cassette. Worked perfectly!
Yeah. Same here for last year's Etape. Ultegra di2 mid/long cage rear mech, Wolf Tooth Roadlink DM and XT 11-40 cassette. Oh, and a Rotor 46/30 crankset! I'm 95kgs and don't climb well.
nicely done mods all around. turns that race bike into an interesting long haul machine.
Yep. That was the purpose still a lightweight stiff race bike not a touring bike or a gravel bike!
This is amazing, thabks for sharing. Have manual Ultegra myself but definitely going to give this a go. Shame it only came up on my feed a few days away from my big sportive 😅😅
Been running GRX 1x long cage with XT cage mod and it works great. 11/50 cassette and it shifts to the 50 as well as the original.
I’ve been using an 11-42 cassette in these types of events for about 4yrs on the mechanical Dura-Ace and then on the DI2 Dura Ace worked fine with a Wolftooth direct mount roadlink without having to change the cage length. Get a lot of comments but I rather ride everything to the end than walk.
Great work! I'm running Eagle X01 Axs and Force brifters with a 10-52 Eagle cassette and a 48t front on my TCR Advanced. Works really well, so simple to ride. The only small caveat I've noted is that there is a slightly bigger jump in gear ratio at one point on the cassette - not really a problem as where I ride is quite hilly and I'm usually shifting a few gears at a time! Also running 160mm rotors fr & rr for more power and thermal capacity, which suits my super middleweight Pogačar 76kg😉
I put a wolf tooth extender on my roadie when I was doing lots of hills many years ago.
I participated in the Fred this year, at at 110kg dry weight, I knew I would need gearing assistance. I did find a SRAM 10-44 cassette that I mated to my 45/33 (with an XPLR RD). Made it up all the climbs, with the exception of around 20m on that really steep section on Hardknock due (to bike walkers not keeping off the line). Did run it in sequential mode to remove potential for small/small slack and it worked perfectly.
Nice. Well done. Yeh thats always a risk, give them a shout! Luck of the draw i guess if you get a clear run.
I upgraded to a gravel bike this year with 2x GRX. Could not make a steep climb at end of race i always do. My "old mtb" gravel bike had a 51tooth rear and 38tooth front, this allowed me substantial gearing to get my fat ass up the hill and also go fast on the paved sections. With XT derailleur instead of GRX i may be able to put a 46 instead of 34.
If you are lucky enough to have mechanical 10-speed road shifters (e.g. ST-5700), you can slap on an 8/9 speed MTB rear derailleur.
RD-M3020-8 officially takes up to 40T cassettes, but is known to work with 42T.
RD-M3100-SGS officially works with up to 36T. This is a shadow derailleur so it is more modern looking, but the range is more limiting
It will shift all the 10 gears on the cassette since the pull ratio is the same. Bar a few exceptions where the pull ratio is different.
Rode the struggle today on tired legs and my 31/34 lowest gear was definitely not small enough! Will be looking at getting that xt 11-40 working with my grx 11 speed mechanical.
With grx you wont even need the mech extender. Just a longer chain a bit of b tension screw 👍
Great video. Love a bit of hacking, especially as I am a larger roder. And as for the 180mm adapter you do. Gamechanger.
GREAT vid and agree 100% with the basic premise that road bikes are undergeared for most people that don't live somewhere quite flat. I live near the alps, love riding my carbon road bike (stock 50/34 11-34 setup) but I ride my gravel bike with 2x11 GRX and 11-40 in the back a lot for training in order to have that 30:40 gear to keep all the climbs mellow so it's z2 instead of lung busting...
As well, I wish I could get a 31 or 32T front ring and a 36-38T big cog in the rear on my 2x12 Ultegra Di2 but the BCD limits the front little ring and Shimano doesn't make any HG+ cassette between 11-34 and 11-45 :(
@@pbandjosh cheers
I have 11-40t with rx810 and 52/34 up front on our tandem. It helps on the climbs as my stoker is not nearly as fit as me but still have the top end for the flats and downhills. Shifts like the 11-34 after fine tuning it.
This type of setup seems perfect for my gravel bike (aka my only bike) which I use for road riding, gravel riding and bikepacking. The lower gears would be perfect for climbing up steep hills when fully loaded bikepacking, the big gears perfect for fast group rides with my roadie friends. Needs to do more research before committing to buying bigger chainrings and cassettes, but pretty good insight overall from your video. Cheers!
I switched to 52-34 with 11-40 in the back last year and it's just phenomenal. Literaly all you need. Shimano should really think about officialy supporting this kind of ranges.
@khegol What derailleur are you using? Did you get a WolfTooth roadlink?
@@drquantrocket I am using r7000 long case and yes, I did get a wolftooth roadlink.
Here I already have a GRX-400 (10 speed) with a 11-42 Deore Cassete (yes, outside the specs of the Derailleur, but it works) and now I will put a GRX-600 2x Crankset with a 46-30d. I think for my power it will be the perfect machine for any terrain and climb. Also the parts are relatively cheap, including the cassete and no need for extenders. The only downside will be the impossibilty of get very high speeds on steep downhills, but I dont care.
Been doing this for years with an Ultegra Di2 RX mech, no faff necessary it just works with 11-40 and 11-42
53/36 front 11-34 rear deffo works on my Canyon Ultimate Rim with Dura Ace R,9100 short cage. Tried the combo out on the Matlock Top 10 route Friday and the easy gear was a revelation even up Sydnope, Bank Road and Riber. For Fred with longer climbs I'd try 11-36 rear (SRAM) which still works on my setup if careful with the chain length to protect from Big-Big drama. YMMV I'm under 70 kgs though!
I had a bike with Ultegra 6870 di2 11 speed with long cage which got me 11-36 on the back and 52/36, though I also added few links into the chain just incase. As a heavier rider it was great to keep in zone 2 on the steep.
When I was about 60kg and 220w ftp I was using 52/36 11-28 and doing 10% climbs in z2, just easy grinding at 40rpm and 130watts. Now I'm much heavier and less fitter, changed to 46/33 10-28, rarely even use the 48/10, but the 33/28 has been used once in awhile, though I mostly avoid routes that have 15% climbs or steeper lol
It's astonishing that 'back in the day' 42x23 was considered a low gear. Surprised I still have functioning knees. Ridden 'The Fred' twice. Walked Hard Knot both times. >85kg on a 35x33 with 6+ hours in the legs and it's no surprise. I'm currently considering my next road bike purchase and as I approach 50 a major consideration is gear ratios. PT; the voice of sense and reason.
If your running mechanical you can do this with an ultegra RX rear derailleur and a hanger extender. I ran that with 11sp 105 for a few years.
Most of the time u just need the lower cage not the mech.
@@PeakTorque True I could have put a long cadge on my 105 mech. But I wanted a clutch too because the bike was doing dirt roads too.
@@pulser955 ah cool. I use 105 on my gravel bike which does serious chunk/singletrack too. I drilled another hole in the top of the cage where the spring hooks in to give a much higher spring tension. Works so good
@@PeakTorque Interesting I never thought about trying that. I did try putting an XT cadge and an offset pulley to see if I could go without the extender. But neither worked.
Ok nice to find someone pushing the limits of shimano’s scams ! Great video ! Great work on the bike I wish I had that set up here in Puerto Rico
You could even extend your range by using an 10-42t sram x01 cassette. Shifts well with my XT M8050/GRX Di2 Setup. I really like my 12sp Force D2 setup on my road bike, but nothing beats 11sp cross compatibility. My gravel bike runs a X01 cassette with a modded XT Di2 RD (long cage & garbaruk wheels), GRX Di2 shifters on a Force crank with a Garbaruk chainring and an Ultegra/XT chain.
Been working 52/34 for years,best of both Worlds up front.
Is it 11 or 12 speed and what cassette are you using?
Just put a 36t inner chain ring on my DA 54/40 chainset. Coupled with an 11/32 cassette I can stay in z2 on climbs upto 20%. I just drop down to around 40 rpm out of the saddle, just using body weight very lazily to keep HR in z2.
Can you buy a single 36t chainring or do you have to buy the whole cassette?
@@powerpope3 u can buy just the 36tooth chainring, there only around 20 euro
I'm running SRAM 46/33 with 10-44T but since chain gets slack from 33x15, need to use sequential shift.
Or if I don't need 46x44, I can shorten chain to remove the chain slack.
If I really want easy gear I can probably fit 43/30 but cannot use Quarq powermeter since BDC gets smaller.
Thanks for the video. I‘ve used DI2 RD-RX817 for a while with 1by. With 34/52 was the chain tension too risky. Your setup is better.
--
Your old 11sp trick with 34/52 doesn't work on 12sp Di2. I couldn't adjust it properly.
Great video!
I use the stock mechanical GRX 11 speed mech and it fits an 11/40 with no mods, and a 11/42 with B screw adjustment…..
Funnily enough I’ve done exactly the same setup ahead of the Pan Celtic Race in 2 weeks, which also goes up Hardknott and the other major lakes climbs like the Struggle and Honister, plus Scottish beasts like Baleach Na Ba - but with a fully loaded bike!
I have the same Dura Ace 11 Di2 groupset, and fitted the same 8050 GS cage to it. Have been running it with an 11-36 SRAM cassette which was fine, tried to fit the 11-40t XT like yours and it just wouldn’t quite give enough clearance on the 40, it only needs another 5mm but can’t get there without the mech hanger extender
I recently replaced my 48-35 crankset with a 46-33 version, paired with a 10-33 cassette. Sram AXS software shows you which gears you actually use, and it shows me that I just don’t need the 48-10 ratio.
Running Sram 46/33 w. 10-33 since years (lived in Switzerland, now in Bay Area), it’s a real climber’s combo! (even thinking about putting 10-36 for some climbs)
46x10 is more than I ever needed even spinning to 100kph downhill in some situations… Just increase the cadence a bit, for the few times I really need to use it…
Did the same on my 8 speed Kona gravel bike. Swapped from 11-34 to 11-40 and added an extender, total cost £30 and now have much more range.
Also that bike at 11:51 with the tan side walls looks great, shame the bar tape ruins the aesthetic!
Love this, and finally a solid recommendation for getting a Shimano setup with a decent range of gearing. Still a big SRAM fan as I am running a 48/35 and a 10-44 in the rear with an XPLR rear derailleur and it works flawlessly. The only edge I’ll give to your setup is that Shimano keeps the smallest two cogs from being used with the inner ring where as SRAM defaults at just the smallest. But for any rider that’s even paying the smallest attention to what gear they’re in, this is not an issue.
Nice. Thats a huge range! Sram say that xplr should only be used 1x 😂
The risk of a firmware update making my bike useless is just the kind of thrill I live for
if you now go 45-33 in the front you're can apply as an elevator motor ^^
Running 40 teeth with a standard GRX 2 by. Only thing I had to do was fiddling with the b screw.
Me too. Just made sure I cut the chain to the correct length for that set up. Has been running perfectly for me.
I run a sram mtb rear mech with road shifters on my winter bike , works a treat 👌
Thank you for this, as a full sized 95kg human the industry seems to assume that we all weigh 65kgs and have no biceps. Due to the incline (California) the days with >10k of ascending are Zone 2 impossible, but the gearing helps. Older bike, so I have a 39x28 as my 'easiest' gear. One of the main reasons Im considering an updrade is to get more climbing range
Man I'd hate to do the south grade road of Palomar Mtn. or the Onion Valley climb with that set up
The XTR 11-40 cassette is actually lighter than the Ultegra 11-34 cassette. One can also do something similar with the 12sp system. You will need to have one of those wheel/hub that can easily switch out the freehub body to micro-spline. Running 10-45 in the rear. Higher top speed and even lower gearing for the climb. Have this setup for years and run flawlessly.
Would the 12 speed 105/GRX 2X rear derailleurs work with the 10-45 cassette? That's out of spec on both ends.
@@siy01 I can't speak for the 105/GRX 2x as I don't have first hand experience with them. Although I don't see why not. I am using 9200 Dura Ace groupset on a Tarmac SL7. I have the same 10-45 setup on my tandem as well. On my setups, I needed the wolftooth roadlink dm as the b-screw on the RD is not enough to make it work alone. Chain length will be a bit of a trial and error depending on the frame. The 3rd smallest cassette gear combine with the 36 front chainring will result in lost of tension on the chain but you can use synchro shift and program that gear combo out to not run into it. Other than that, it just works. I have to add the disclaimer that YMMV though. Good luck.
@@e92zerorider93 Just so I understand, so you are using DA RD 9250 12 speed with XTR 12 speed 10-45 (CS-M9100-12) and a roadlink DM and a standard DA 12 speed chain cut to length, and then set up in e-tube as syncro, blocking the small chain-ring to smallest few cassette cogs combos? Are you running any behind cassette spacers() to make the MTB cassette fit your road freehub body? I use DT180 hubs on my climbing wheelset, so switching cassette body to a micro spline should be a no-tool job. Reason I want to confirm is that shimano (not surprisingly) says this will not work, wolftooth also says their roadlink dm does not work with 12 speed. And finally, the total capacity of the derailleurs will be hugely exceeded. But if it works, it works. =)
@@andreasolsson2336 Yup. Exactly that. No spacers needed. I have this setup on DT Swiss 180, Roval CLX II, Extralite HyperRear 2 on SL7. I helped a friend to have this setup with the Roval Terra on an SL7 to the surprise of the local bike shop that put the parts on and reluctantly admitted that it works at the end. I also have this setup on White Industry on a tandem. Full disclosure that I have to say is YMMV as it might depends on the chainstay length and your frame variation. As one would expect, this is outside the recommended tolerances of the manufacturers. The margin that one get to work with is small and the adjustment/fine tuning is a bit of a trial. Also cross chaining would be noisier than the oem DA setup (as expected) so depends on how sensitive you are to drive train noise this might affect you. But it works. My wife has been running this setup on her SL7 for 2 years and just finished the Mammoth Gran Fondo with it the past weekend.
That’s a fair point for the zone 2ers
im running the same xt 11-40 cassette on my GRX 810. No mods necessary. Just a longer chain. Shimano says the max is 34 tooth.
Nice work Pete
For the non-mechanical amongst us; you could just get a Di2 Ultegra GS RD and plug it straight in? I use two quick links straddling a standard link on my chain when I want to run an 11-36/52-34 setup (Stronglight chainrings replacing Shimano work ok in this combination) and take the extra link out when I swap back to 11-28/11-30 on the back.
Could do. But expensive for a new di2 mech man!
I run a 50-34 in front and 11-36 in back, chain a bit tight. If I wanted to try a 52-34 for higher sprinting speed you reckon I could use that trick to add 2 links ? I don't want to change already my recent (waxed) chains.
Link in description goes to SLX cassette but you mentioned XT. I ride XT M8000 11-42 on gravel with GRX812 it's great and light with two alu spiders.
Btw smaller cogs wear out faster and they sell new one separately so it's a good way to extend life of the cassette (which I did).
I noticed that - confused me
So true. I'm a 68kg lightweight. 8 to 10% is pretty standard here. We have the odd pinches of 12/13% on usual routes and if I go looking we do have 20 to 25% climbs. Anyway I have a 34x32 gearing and at 180 to 200w's(my Z2) often I find myself doing 55rpms for extended periods. And I'm thinking if I was the average 75 to 80kg guy( who for some reason wouldn't be seen dead on anything under a 36x30 as their lowest gear) I'd be in the 40's!
High value channel. Thank you!
Been looking for info like this for a while. Thx so much!
I love my 3x Ultra Setup with 26/42/52 chain rings and 11-28 cassette! This is such a great option..its a pity they only offer 2x nowadays....
Spooky....I tried... on a 2019 TCR DA 9120 52 34 11 34 yesterday. Dialled chain length. . Shifted fine. Big big worked in stand and on road as did small small. No hanger extension. Just made sure limit screw on front mech was super close to chain on small ring... I was left wondering why I need to go for a new 12 speed bike.
I've got a shimano 105 11speed 52/34 mated to an 11/42 cassette using the stock 105 long cage rear derailleur without a wolf tooth. Yes, the chain is longer though. I am older & a weakling 😂
That's exactly what I was thinking about the long cage, too heavy, too many chain links! :) And anything beyond 28 cogs is cheating :) Cool jersey Alex! And nice work going up the pass!
@PeakTorque I've searched all over online for this answer maybe you can educate a ludite like myself. Would I be able to drop in a spare I have 105 12spd 11-36 on my DuraAce 9250 RD? Currently running a 11-34 DA casette but could really use some more upper range. Just can't find any info if I'd need an extender or to modify the cage or it would barely squeek in.
Great info. Very relatable! I'm 87kg (Fat MVDP?) and am also riding 9170. Currently running an 11-30 cassette with a 52-36 mid-compact. Keen to try an 11-34 for the steeper climbs. Guess I would just need a mech extender?
Always liked a wide range of gears, my Audax bike has 53/39/26 chainset with 11-32 cassette.
Currently running Grx 2x on my alloy Trek domane. 48/30 front 11/36 rear (12 speed)
What a difference its made for the climbs hauling my fat ass around Yorkshire dales!
Wonder if i could fit an even larger cassette on the rear?
I love the 11-40 mod and the whole philosophy around gearing. Sort of the quiver killer of hilly roadie gearing. I have some questions about the rear mech however: is it really necessary to change the cage especially since the Sunrace Extended link takes care of the b-adjustment under the 40 cog, and since Di2 blocks out the 11 & 12 cog. From my experience with 1x set ups, the slant of the parallelogram determines the cassette range (hence 1x derailleurs with short or mediumish cages) which can be increased with with a hanger extender, while the tooth difference between the chainrings determines the hanger length. I suppose if you're running a 52/34 that's a bigger jump than the standard 16 tooth one, but not by much. In any case just a nerdy thing to wonder about. I used to swap out to short cage on my Deore rear derailleurs (greatest 8/9/10s derailleur of all time) simply because the slant could handle an 11-36 without any issue, and when run with a double, say 50/34, the long cage was simply excessive. I could swap 105 hangers, and it would be plenty sufficient and a lot more tidy.
Yes. I tried with just the short cage and it does not have the slack capability of a GS cage. It worked, but i had to use synchro shift to pseudo block out gears. And i hate using synchro shift!
I run 11-36 (50/34) on a 105 r7000 myself and could definitely see myself using something even easier. I don't see why I would not be able to replicate your setup with that groupset. I can get up most climbs here in upper zone 2 if I want to drop my cadence below 75/70, but usually my long rides include some small efforts as well and I don't prescribe to the notion that everything over zone 2 is poison to the workout, so I don't stress it. Would I be living in an area like yours, I would do the same as you did. Also great for bikepacking.
What cassette? If I remember right there's no shimano 11-36 11 speed
Probably sram pg 11-36
Well done Alex. Thank you.
Should the top pulley wheel have any lateral play in it?
Shimano needs to release a 12 speed 11-40 cassette PRONTO.
Absolutely. They either don't listen, or are saving it for the next unnecessary 13/14 speed wireless groupsets. Its pretty shameful really. The last latest and greatest GRX X2 got a paltry 2 tooth upgrade on the cassette.
Each time they release another gear they just fill in the gaps at the high end and keep the low end at 34...
You can just put a GRX small chain ring on the front. Also saves weight.
@@richardmiddleton7770 Do you mean fit a 30T GRX to a normal road chainset? Does that even work with the BCD? Not sure it would work on my 34/50 R7000 chainset....
@@ArdGeal i agree. But I take his point. A subcompact 12 speed shimano crank with a road chainline would be great. Like a 46/34. There is actually a 46/36 in Ultegra/Dura Ace 12 speed
I almost needed a hot day cassette today!!! I just finished a flat, 2hr "z2" ride at altitude and it was 104F. Z2 is typically 210-230w for me at this altitude with a 130-140hr. Today? 185w and a 145-155hr😂
You probably don't need the derailleur hanger extender. I did the same thing but on an Ultegra 11 speed di2 with a medium size derailleur cage. Absolute black 48-32 oval chainring on the front and sunrace 11-40t cassette. I didn't need the derailleur hanger extender though. It degrades the shifting performance when I tried it. Instead, I swapped out the b-screw for a longer one and made the necessary adjustments, and it shifts much better than when I was using the wolftooth extender.
You do for Dura Ace short cage. Trust me i tried. The top jockey wheel will only just clear a 34t max so extender was needed.
This is really smart stuff. Thanks for the great content!
Being from the old school of equipment were everything went with everything. It annoys me now this streaming into one group to use. Not always practical. Campag largest cassette 11sp is a 32t. A Taurus. I use at present a 11sp Chorus from 2015 with a wolf tooth on a 50x34 chainset. Works fine. I rode Peaks challenge here in Australia this year. I am 74 and do need smaller gears on the long steep bits 34x32 is getting a bit of an ask now. I am tempted to put a Shimano cassette body on my Zonda wheels and a 105 or Sunrace cassette 12 to 36 11speed. Not changing the Chorus Rear Mech or the shift levers.or even the front mech and Chainset. Will it work, I might give it a try its a cheaper work around than a whole new groupset. As I have said this streaming into specific manufacturers annoys me somewhat, and is a industry ploy for sales. All my old steelies have all sorts of stuff on them and play well together as they should. Wish me luck.
I love my gravel bike with grx di2 48/31 front, 11-40 back. Grx di2 works without any modification! Can climb anything (and I’m not small person, too), 2x11 is decent. This setting is awesome. U won’t find any 12 speed cassettes with an 11-40 option, what an f…king development/evolution.
Like yourself unless I enter the Fred Whitton I will probably never need that gearing myself. Done Majorca 312 on a 50/34 11-34 which was the right decision saved the old legs Hear in Blighty I run 54/40 and 11-34 great for top end speed and well being 85kgs perfect for the limps and bumps locally
I’m 93kg, 300w FTP and some of the hills in my area are way too steep to stay in Z2 (top is about 240w). Some of them I find myself needing to sustain 350-450w to keep a descent cadence and it of course puts my HR at 90%+ of peak. I ride 12sp Ultegra Di2, smallest gear is 36-30, but definitely need a 34 or bigger on the back.
12x shimano oem cassette options are rather exotic though (if your thinking bigger than 34t). I think it's all microspline and 10-45t as lowest
Shimano sorely lacking an 11-40 12 speed HG cassette to split the difference between the 11-36 and the 10-45. Surprised they didn’t drop this with GRX 12sp 2x recently as a smooth upgrade path for ppl without microspline hubs.
Funny how the £10 shimano megarange freewheels sort of get around the big-range-but-big-jumps-between-gears issue by having a significantly larger low gear then more closely spaced high gears. This might be possible with Miche cassettes as you can buy every sprocket individually and build any cassette you like, compared to a lot of Shimano ones that have 3 gears on a spider etc. Shifting might suck if you DIY with a Miche and the ramps are out of place though.
I've had good results with 11speed Sunrace cassettes. They go as wide as 11-46 on an HG freehub. Shifting is fine even on a muddy MTB ride.
Just rode it with standard setup but my super light (rim brake) Ribble SL Ultimate.
Yes, i ride with SLX cassettes with Sram and PT 180….
@peaktorque could you fit a deore XT or xtr (m9000series) cage on your di2 dura ace derailleur to avoid the sunrace extension?
What if you buy a cues u8020 cage? with mechanical 2x cues and a 11-45 cassette (lg700) you should get ~650% gear range.
I used to run a R7000-GS mech with the G pulley replaced with a Wolftooth Wolfcage pully (offset pulley) this allowed for a 42t XT cassette to be used without any other mods
I just checked now and Wolftooth have discontented this product... iv emailed them to double check. what a shame
Yeh i remember that. I could not find it either. I wonder if there was some licensing or patent issue.
What if you add the Classified system on top of the regular 11-34 cassette and 52/34 front?
Would be rather interesting to find a similar combo using GRX groupsets
I ran that on my gravel bike (44 possible ratios). It was over torquing the reduction gear according to classified but it worked really well. Just a bit baffling having so many ratios and a lot of extra weight carrying around both systems.
@@PeakTorque yeah I’d imagine it’s easy to lose track of which gear you’re in or when to change what gear.
Maybe 1x + wide range cassette would be the best option, but as far as I know classified’s gravel cassettes only go up to 11-34
I'm still looking for an SGS cage that I can mount on my Ultegra 8000 mech rear derailleur. I've been running a 50-34 front and 11-40 cassette but would like an 11-46 cassette. I've considered changing to a 48-31 GRX crank but I'd prefer not to since I've already got a Stages Ultegra left side crankarm and the GRX crank has a wider chainline maybe necessitating a front derailleur change.
It's the common combine while using RX812 or RX822. Eletric shifting boi can't enjoy it properly. And there is the 50/34-11/46 by RX812 & XT cage.
A couple of questions, as I said on the last vid I am 100% going to do this. 1 what is the spacer needed for the XT cassette? 2 For the chain sizing to be perfect did you go for big big plus 2 links or something more exact? 3 regarding rear cassette sizing is it just physics? Eg if tdf pro is say 70kg and I am 100kg do I need a 30% bigger rear chain ring? Many thanks in advance!
The spacer would be “1.85mm HG cassette spacer”. For sizing the chain, that method is open to errors. The only way to do it safely is use the chain on big, big AND run through the derailleur and cage and size it so the lower cage is not quite fully pulled tight.