GEAR USED IN THIS VIDEO: ⚡ Merlin Alton Leather Jacket: imp.i104546.net/DVA9Eq ⚡ Klim K Fifty 2 Jeans: imp.i104546.net/BXa310 ⚡ Klim Baja Gloves: imp.i104546.net/0Jn2GV ⚡ Alpinestars SMX Ventilated Boots: imp.i104546.net/2rz6YM 🏍 SUPPORT BIG ROCK MOTO BY USING THESE LINKS WHEN SHOPPING! ⚠️Rocky Mountain: bit.ly/33kgRIz ⚠️Revzilla: imp.i104546.net/6bxxXN ⚠️Amazon: amzn.to/3viGZ0A
You said you would not show all the details and rider options because that would be a six-hour video. You say that as if a six-hour motorcycle video is a BAD thing. Another great video. Your 100k subscribers is well earned and well deserved. Keep it up :)
Ian- DONT APOLOGIZE for saying it’s a long video - that’s why we are here!! Because you give us more than just a face value review!! I would watch them if they were an hour long. You don’t ramble- you take important care to not have unnecessary words. And I love the bloopers!!
Just bought a 1200 Explorer with the 8 gallon tank. This bike checks all my boxes and DOESN"T HURT MY LOW BACK the way the Harleys do. BYE BYE Harley! Your content has been greatly appreciated.
Just purchased a 2016 Triumph Tiger 800 XRT. You really do AWESOME reviews but as far as I can tell you either never rode one or never did a review? My 2020 Yamaha Tracer 900 GT was stolen And I chose The 800 Tiger to Replace it. After market luggage was huge as it has more capacity and lids open from the top vs. the sides. I will never purchase luggage that opens from the side ever again! It IS a Horrible design where when you get to New Mexico and pull over to get your Sandwich out you have to chase your underwear and socks through the desert. That luggage looks nicer but in practicality it totally sucks! I know you emphasize on off and on road. But your delivery is very concise and informative. You have so many videos you may have covered this already? But anything we can do to show newer riders that design flaw is gonna be appreciated by guys who tour.... Thank you Ian! You have helped so much to make buying decision. I didn't buy the bike you suggested but your advice helped me buy the RIGHT bike for me!
I think your right on the money by saying we should look at this as a stand alone bike on its own. I've always likes the tiger 1200 due to the fact that it's different.
Once again a thorough and well presented, unbiased review. But I beg to differ from one of your final conclusions. You stated that why would anybody bother with a traditional sports-tourer when you can get a motorcycle like the Thriumph 1200 or the Bmw GS, for that matter. I have to say first that i live and ride in mainland Europe where off-road riding is as good as impossible, we don't have large open spaces like the ones you can enjoy in the States or in Australia. Most of us stick to the blacktop. I use to ride a R1250GS, I know how good that bike is but I swapped it after 36000 kms for a traditional inline-four sport touring bike, a Ninja 1000sx and I find I do the same things with it that I did on a GS, weekends, evening blasts, the odd ride to the city or 4000 km motorcycle holidays. The GS is far better if you do two-up riding, which I don't and light off-roading, which I don't do either. For everything else I prefer a bike that is more compact, lighter, much lower and which is a more engaging ride. I changed my style of riding to suit the bike (no more using the leverage of the large handlebar to turn in), I use my body much more and I just get more rewarding sensations. That's the way I see it but I'm probably not very representative. Regards
I am new to your channel. You are one of the few I believe I can trust enough to buy a motorcycle based upon your opinions and reviews. I love that you are not afraid to crack the throttle in a test and that you offer your opinion about WHAT YOU WOULD BUY when comparing competition. - Keep it up.
Loved the outtakes. It’s a reminder of how hard you work to bring this information to your subscribers and viewers. The effort, your attention to detail, the production quality and your precise presentation of excellent details are much appreciated! 🙏 thank you and can’t wait for information on the Rally Pro! Cheers!
One other thing these road-biased adventure bikes excell at is eating up bumps on less than perfect paved roads. They can comfortably maintain a respectable pace on roads the sport bike crowd wouldn't go anywhere near. Sadly here in California there are more and more roads in this category.
I really think you got it right with the title. The GT and GT Explorer fit perfectly in a sport touring category. It's not the big all-road ADV bike like the Rally Pro or GS-A or KTM. It's not the same as the BMW RT or FJR type of sport tourers either. It really is in a unique spot. Maybe that is polarizing for some, but that just so happens to be what I'm looking for. I came from a Multistrada 1260S to the GT Explorer and the Triumph is so much more comfortable to me and user friendly. I have some nit picks with it, but that's every bike. Nice review and can't wait to put more miles on mine.
Yours are by far the most thorough and useful motorcycle reviews on TH-cam. In addition to an excellent review, I really appreciate the spreadsheet you shared on the new Tiger line. I'm planning to trade a couple of my bikes for one of the new Tigers. Your reviews and the spreadsheet will be very useful in shaping my final decision on which model to buy. Thanks again for another great review!
Your videos can never be long enough Ian.Thank you for another incredibly comprehensive review comparing and contrasting the most popular adventure bikes.Your efforts provide potential buyers like me with information needed to make an educated choice.👍🏻👍🏻
Your closing comment about adventure bikes being the next evolution of sport touring bikes is 100% on point. I've been saying this for years myself. Great observation.
I tested many Triumph motorcycles and it's a special brand with premium build quality. The Triumph motorcycle that is very special to me is the Triumph Tiger 900 GT Pro. The 900 has more than enough power and is a whole lot cheaper than the 1200. And the colour blue 💙 is gorgeous. Kind regards from the Netherlands 🇳🇱
I totally agree with comments concerning shaft drive v chain, however having studied the latest research from several different sources on O and X ring chains which indicated that any kind of oil on them shortens their life if they are used off road because the oil simply attracts dirt particles turns into a grinding paste, I now only use wax spray like Muc off dry lube which protects the outer links from corrosion but does not attract dirt particles nor does it mess your rear rim up. My local KTM dealer only uses wax and now having tried it off road on my 690 I will never use anything else. People do not seem to realise that a sealed O or X ring chain does not receive any lube inside the rollers anyway so the only point of oil is to prevent rust on the links which dry wax lube does without any mess at all on your chain and rear wheel. In fact I notice that the wax finish prevents a build up of dirt on the chain so it always stays clean.
I use machine greese on my chain. Makes a nice protective layer. Does the job. I still rather have a shaft. Mostly because they are less likely to fail or have something jam. Chains and sprokets have to deal with a lot of external dust and water.
@@ralphwarom2514 I used to use that when I was 17 because there was nothing better but I found it sprayed around the wheel and made a mess. Wax makes no mess at all and is waterproof if you go through a river.
" I just can't seem to ride this bike slow" 😂 My same thoughts on my Multi V4S. 🤘. Great review Ian as always, cool to see how the ADV competition is stacking up and what they're bringing to the game and making the competition better
I think I saw all reviews of the new Tiger 1200 here on TH-cam, but yours is the best; good in-depth technical information, good comparisons of the competition, honest opinion, giving it the beans and I all like that 👍. I think a new GS will be revealed next september as a '23 model because BMW exists 100 years next year, so something has to be done me thinks. Keep up your good reviews mate! Cheers from The Netherlands
Ian, did you know that bmw sold over 60,000 pieces of pie last year? I have a 2020 900 tiger rally pro. It's not perfect, but pretty close for the riding this 70 year old geezer enjoys. Love the stonking induction growl that comes up from the airbox when you give it the beans. Congrats on the 100k.
It's very uplifting to hear from older men talking about how they ride these bikes, I'm just turning 60, freaking me out. So I appreciate this 70-year-old gentleman speaking up here. Wow hitting the trails and the roads at 70, awesome!
I am considering stepping into the ADV world from my current Honda Goldwing. I am a bit height challenged at 5’8 with a 30” inseam. Years ago I owned a 2005 GS1150 adventure with and an aftermarket lowered suspension. It fit me great. After watching your video I am heading to my local Triumph dealer and try the Tiger 1200 Pro on for size. Thanks for the informative video. Btw… I am a bit jealous of your awesome house and it’s location. Cheers!
Thank you Ian, the best in depth reviews on the web with just the right mix of tech detail and the subjective feeling side of things. You should take this as a compliment, I'm a German engineer from the heartland of Engineering and I follow the big German media. Greetings from England, AndyB
Great job. I believe you are thee most thorough motorcycle introduction/orientation emcee. I'm without a nice street bike right now and your ride-cam was a great ride along for me. GOD bless.
I just picked up a 900 GT Pro. I live in Idaho where dirt mileage way outnumbers pavement. I’m of an age where I’m not going anywhere that needs the rollover advantage of a 21” front wheel. I mounted Dunlop Trailmax Missions and the dirt performance is all I need. And the 19” front wheel is a blast on the twisties . They’re crazy good bikes . If I was larger and younger the 1200 would be a no brainer.
Thanks for this fine and nicely detailed video, sir! After 5 GSs over a 30+ year span and 45 years of Beemers overall, I’ve just pulled the trigger on a new Rally Explorer. Triumph has come so far since my first bike (RIP old Bonnie), and I am absolutely chomping at the bit to get my mitts on this! Your review and comments have confirmed that I’ve made the right decision. Just waiting on my tag and paperwork to arrive from my home state. Thanks! Count me as a new sub.
I'd love to see where you can get a comparably equipped GS1250 to my 1200Rally Pro. The $4k difference was a huge factor to me. And BMWs expensive dealer service costs. I like both bikes but I spent my money on Triumph this time.
Strange how companies who made bad design decisions feel like they have to stick to them because they think the users got used to it and would prefer the same on new models.
Congrats on reaching 100K subscribers. Another excellent review. Your reviews had a huge impact on which bike I purchased, (2022 GSA). Thanks for all your hard work.
The irony that I looked at this bike, then looked at the FJR 1300, and it's not even close. This new tiger is unreal. Was an absolute blast to ride. Interested however to see how the 1300GS turns out first.
I'm a long time owner of FJR1300 the last being a 2017 model until 2months ago. Now I'm on the 1200 GT Explorer its an amazing bike. Great review by the way Ian was noding my head the whole way through lol
I’m currently considering both the fjr and the gt explorer…it’s a difficult choice 😅 Fjr kind of long in the tooth, but reliable. Tiger has more options. Guess I better go sit on both and get a feel of them 😊
I bought the Tiger 900 Rally and at 5'9" with the windscreen all the way up the wind goes right over the top of my dual sport helmet. I also have a hard time riding it slow, the bike wants to ride, its one of the best built machine's I've ever seen the weight is perfectly balanced, it doesn't feel heavy. I can't wait to get the 1200 GT Pro for my pure road bike. Who needs a sport bike, when a dirt bike, and a Tiger will cover everything I do.
Another great job Ian. Very impressed that you didn't sit on the fence at the end and gave the Triumph the edge over your beloved Beemer (though with the caveat that you're eagerly anticipating the new BMW!). Another thorough review. Congrats on the 100k subscribers too. Hard-earned and very well deserved. 👍
Great review as always. I wish at some point manufacturers start refocusing more on weight reduction and simplicity. They also need to reduce valve check schedule (like harley did), we’re in 2022, hydraulic valve lifters that require 0 maintenance have been around for almost 100 years.
Completely agree, more reviewers should focus on the service element. I just paid a fortune for my 32K km service on the outgoing Tiger 1200 and the bill was eye watering. Great move by Harley on the PA, not enough made of that feature.
@@bryanmathew2079 weight of the system and inertia are the issues on high RPM bikes plus costs. Harley have done a great job although they have let themselves down with a short service interval driven by something else?
Hi, a new subscriber ! (from Brazil, Amazonas - "rain forest"). I've bougth a month ago a Tiger 900 GT Pro. I'm happy with the bike and your video is very nice to watch. Keep doing this great Job... Greetings!
I have the 1200 GT Explorer model with the 7.9 gallon tank and blind spot radar. It's an excellent road-bias, sport touring style ADV bike, and a blast to drive on the roads in the mountains while eating up long highway slogs well too. I've also owned a 900 GT Pro, and a HD Pan America Special, and the new Tiger 1200 is my favorite of the bunch. I feel like I'm driving a rocket ship when I'm on it.
Ian, the film quality and presentation of your video's is vastly improving. Thank you for this wonderful review. I'm not considering this bike but anything you review is entertaining to watch.
Congrats on the subscribers! I just picked up my brand new GT Explorer after trading in my Super Tenere. I only have a couple of hundred miles on it but you really nailed that review, pretty much my thoughts exactly. A bigger/wider screen would be nice and I do miss being able to adjust the shifter lever. Also I would like more info on the screen like the trip Odo and the tpms info. Maybe you can add it but I have not figured that part out yet. Amazing bike, and I love the seat, only done a 3 hour ride at one sitting and it was fine but time will tell. Oh you may want to blank out the speedo in future videos, never sure who is watching ;)
Thank you so much for your time. Absolutely the best review videos I could find. Test drives are uncommon where I’m from and sales guys are bias! I started with an open mind and with a wide range of options and your reviews helped me narrow things down to a final decision :). Going to buy next week !! Cheers ❤🎉
Great vid Ian. I just bought a 2023 GT Pro! I REALLY wanted the 1300GS after driving it but this 1200 was literally 12k cheaper out the door. Can't beat that! Maybe in a few years I'll still love it or switch to a used 1300GS, ha ha.
Let’s wait and see how the Tiger holds up out in the wild. As a rule of thumb, I never buy the first model year of anything. So, this year I opted for the new R1250 GSA Rallye. It may be the last year for the 1250 but they have the engine and chassis sorted and the bike has been on the same basic platform for awhile now so you know what you are getting. I could not care less about a few pounds on big adventure bikes……….they are ALL too heavy for anything but fire roads. I want something to carry my gear, see me through to the end of the trip and be a good travel companion. The Triumph MAY be that but I am certain the GSA is all of that.
Brilliant review! I bought a GT Explorer. I am now 6,000 miles in and it is a fabulous bike. Not my favourite bike, that is the Triumph Rocket TFC, but that is one of a kind. Great job Triumph!
Excellent review as always. Don't worry about the length too much, there was no filler, all important information, so it did not seem too long to me. I wonder how the GT would fare off-road with 50/50 tires. Since even the most aspirational riders will hardly ride more than 10% of the time off-road with such a heavy beast, I think the most sensible option would be to spec out the GT for the occasional off-road travails. Or vice versa, is the Rallye version good enough on the road even for the 90% street rider? I think that would be great to suss out in your upcoming review of the Rallye version. If we're all realistic, the vast majority of Tiger 1200s will spend pretty much all their time on the road.
Just looked at TIGER GT Pro this morning do timing great thank you very much a great unbiased review. Very helpful. I am looking at the GS as well. Perfect. 👍🏍Paul- NZ.
Excellent review, very thorough and relevant to real world riding conditions for those of us who favor adv bikes not so much for their off road capabilities, but more like upright sport touring machines. In that respect one of the best GTs I have ever owned was a 2000 Cagiva Gran Canyon (yes, spelled like that after the lawsuit from the National Park Service) and this new Triumph seems to have all the good that the Cagiva had + a nice long list of modern upgrades that tick all of the boxes in my personal checklist. Looking fwd to seeing/trying one in person thanks to you.
What an amazingly comprehensive video. The final minute said it all and was the swinging point for me to choose the Triumph. Triumph with all the latest technology and the BMW so much older, which in itself is extraordinary to be compared so closely to the Triumph.
Very good information! People keep asking me why I chose the Tiger 1200 Rally Explorer. Lol....Now I can stop trying to explain and just refer them to this video.
Great Work Ian. Not too long, especially for someone trying to decide on what adventure bike to purchase. Cant wait for the Triumph Rally Pro review. That one has been on my list for a while.
Solid review as always, I do appreciate the amount of time you put into these. I do like this bike, and it is probably my second choice, but my first choice is the Pan America but the thing holding me back on that bike right now is all the negatively about its reliability its crazy. I am holding out for a 2023 model and hope that have all the issues resolved.
I have 4900 miles on my 23' GT Explorer, what a machine!!! The vibrations were kinda bothersome for the first 1200 miles but now it's vibe free till about 90mph. It's way better than the 900 GT Pro I traded in and has way less vibrations, that 900 was horrible...... Either I performed the break-in procedure correctly or got lucky with a good bike, I was worried with about 50% if people complaining about the felt vibrations.
I have the same bike as you and the vibrations would be my only complaint. I have 700 miles on mine. Do you think you just got use to the vibrations or did they actually go away? How would that be possible for them to go away?
@@davehemmerly8496 I was trying to find an explanation from a engine builder/machinist that explains the vibration and frequency zones of an engine that was posted in a 1200 tiger group on Facebook but I couldn't find it. Basically you go past the vibration zone with the rpms, don't sit in the rpm range where it vibrates, also using the higher rpms alot and varying the rpms thru those vibration zones will smooth them out over time. I'll sit in 2nd and 3rd gear and just use the engine rpm to set mph for an hour or two on a twisty road. I'm currently at 10,100 miles on my GT Explorer.
@@nscott26 Wow you never get off that thing lol. I love everything about the bike except the vibration in the handlebars. It's not a deal breaker but I would love to know that it can be remedied. It took me a full week to decide between the GT Explorer and the V4S Multistrada and sometimes I question whether I made the right choice or not. If it gets smoother, I will never look back.
@@davehemmerly8496 I rode 1400 miles over Labor Day weekend thru Glacier National Park and around Montana, get out and ride, use those higher rpms and enjoy that glorious intake roar, it should loosen up and get better!
On your cheat sheet you say no cruise option on the entry level GT, it is available as an option here in Europe at least. Best review to date though with some great induction note audio.
Thank jou! Just sold mu BMW 1250GS a few months ago because it is not a boxer anymore. I,ve had 5 GS over the last 9 years, and believe bmw is losing it now. Now riding a bmw scrambler but looking for coming year for something else. So for me this is a great review and i am gonna test ride it. Thanks man!!
Great review Ian, but I have to disagree with one of your final points about choosing this bike over a modern Sport Tourer. For primarily road touring on highway and twisties, it's hard to beat the R1200/R1250RT. Particularly for 2 up touring.
It may be a small complaint, but I wish the manufacturers would figure out how to route the exhaust so they don't have to reduce capacity of one saddlebag by half. Oh yeah, and save the centerstand.
Couldn't wait for the Triumphs to arrive so I bought a '22 GSA/40years model. Watching your review made me wonder if I'd chosen the right one (but only for second or two ;- ) Truth is, the best solution would be to own both!
Great review thanks. Regarding seat height, BMW have now introduced a whole range of height options (here in Europe) including one that actually lowers the frame of the bike so that even people just over 5ft can ride comfortably. Hopefully other manufacturers will do this.
I’d love to see you do an in depth review of the Tiger 900 GT Pro. I’m trying to decide if I can downsize from my ‘09 RT1200 to a top spec midsize, or need to stay above a 1,000cc platform. I’ve owned 3 Hinckley Triumphs but use my Beemer for multi day trips….
I just bought the 2023 model 1200gt Explorer and was shocked to discover that the odometer cannot be displayed on the TFT. Apparently you have to go into the service menu on the bike just to look at your odometer reading! I read over 50 reviews on the Tiger 1200gt models and not a single reviewer ever mentioned this.
Great vid, congrats on 100k, well deserved. I picked up my GT Explorer on Saturday…OMG it’s a great bike, certainly will be a BM GS killer…the weight reduction and handling is brilliant. The vibration is just not an issue…
Good video Ian, you have once again given us an honest and informative evaluation of a motorcycle, and you have made a good comparative analysis of bikes we, have an interest in.
You’ve really put the Tiger on my radar. As a BMW owner, I was disinterested in another GS copycat. I gotta say the sound of the Tiger has piqued my interest. If it sounds that good through video, how much better will it sound in person? I hope to find out in a few years (when getting a new bike might be justified).
Brilliant assessment! Having owned of several Gs's and Triumphs, they both bring something special to the party. Both are amazing bikes. I recently tested both the GT Pro and Rally Pro and they both blew my mind. And i totally agree, one should look at this Triumph as a stand alone bike.
Whenever you are going to compare an adventure bike's abilities, the GS is always the Marque we go to and there is a reason for that. You alluded to that reason in this video when you said there is another GS coming out soon after 9 years of the current model. I believe the new GS will be a 1300 because one has been seen travelling the roads in Europe despite it having camouflage. When other companies build their adventure bikes you can always see a similarity to the GS and this Triumph is a perfect example of that. Except for the engine and headlights there is very few differences between the two. If both bikes are almost the same price then it comes down to personal choice and nothing more. Something you like the look of and damn the specs. I own an anniversary model GS which I'm not ready to get rid of yet, but if I did I would definitely consider the Triumph, given your report here and only because it is so similar to the GS. Thanks for your time Ian.
Another important factor for me is dealer location and quality of service. I love the new Tigers, but Triumph dealers are hundreds of miles away from Durango, as are BMW & Ducati. KTM is the absolute worst at dealer & customer support, so that leaves the HD Pan American 1200 for me for “Big Bikes”. For mid ADV, my only option is the T7.
I just rode the Tiger 1200 Rally Pro at the Touratech Rally. The Explorer model was not there. I own a 2021 R1250GSA so I compared the various features, ride and ergonomics. I found the Tiger to be a very nice bike, at least as much as you can see in a 20 minute ride. I found the joystick to be difficult in that you need to push it straight in to select and with heavy gloves it would be difficult. Also, with the explorer model coming in at a comparable price why would someone not by the original. I did like the fact that the 3 cylinder engine is a better feel and would probably fair better if you drop the bike than the boxer style. Thanks for another great review.
im super exited about this bike cant wait to see how owners like it by the way I think this was one of you best put together vids yet keep up the great work
Great review Ian. Having never owned a Triumph, I wonder about the long term reliability and maintenance costs of the Tiger 1200 compared to the comparable BMWs.
…because we’re not all tall and/or heavy enough to settle the suspensions on these massively tall and top-heavy bikes. I can ride any bike, regardless of seat height, but much above about 31.5-32” on a top-heavy bike is just too much work for me to fool with anymore. While I prefer a traditional S-T, I wouldn’t mind the option of a big ADV like this if it had pavement-specific suspension height and clearance. In the meantime, I’ll try to keep the old shaft drive S-T going (until they come back into fashion). For touring comfort, I’ll ride my touring bike. For ADVing, I’ll take my 750GS low sus. As far as Triumph goes, I wish they would just make a fully faired T120-Touring with lower first three gears and integrated luggage that I could put TKC80s or 50/50s on for easy paved and unpaved cruising. It’s their best platform and engine, in my (worthless) opinion (and the only Triumph I have ever bought). Very interested to see Enfield’s rumored Himalayan 650 in 2024. Nonetheless, thank you for the thorough review of what is undeniably an incredible, if somewhat high-strung, machine.
GEAR USED IN THIS VIDEO:
⚡ Merlin Alton Leather Jacket: imp.i104546.net/DVA9Eq
⚡ Klim K Fifty 2 Jeans: imp.i104546.net/BXa310
⚡ Klim Baja Gloves: imp.i104546.net/0Jn2GV
⚡ Alpinestars SMX Ventilated Boots: imp.i104546.net/2rz6YM
🏍 SUPPORT BIG ROCK MOTO BY USING THESE LINKS WHEN SHOPPING!
⚠️Rocky Mountain: bit.ly/33kgRIz
⚠️Revzilla: imp.i104546.net/6bxxXN
⚠️Amazon: amzn.to/3viGZ0A
You said you would not show all the details and rider options because that would be a six-hour video. You say that as if a six-hour motorcycle video is a BAD thing. Another great video. Your 100k subscribers is well earned and well deserved. Keep it up :)
Heh, my thoughts also.
Guess I'm to much of a gearhead....
Ian- DONT APOLOGIZE for saying it’s a long video - that’s why we are here!! Because you give us more than just a face value review!! I would watch them if they were an hour long. You don’t ramble- you take important care to not have unnecessary words. And I love the bloopers!!
Just bought a 1200 Explorer with the 8 gallon tank. This bike checks all my boxes and DOESN"T HURT MY LOW BACK the way the Harleys do. BYE BYE Harley! Your content has been greatly appreciated.
Just purchased a 2016 Triumph Tiger 800 XRT. You really do AWESOME reviews but as far as I can tell you either never rode one or never did a review? My 2020 Yamaha Tracer 900 GT was stolen And I chose The 800 Tiger to Replace it. After market luggage was huge as it has more capacity and lids open from the top vs. the sides. I will never purchase luggage that opens from the side ever again! It IS a Horrible design where when you get to New Mexico and pull over to get your Sandwich out you have to chase your underwear and socks through the desert. That luggage looks nicer but in practicality it totally sucks! I know you emphasize on off and on road. But your delivery is very concise and informative. You have so many videos you may have covered this already? But anything we can do to show newer riders that design flaw is gonna be appreciated by guys who tour.... Thank you Ian! You have helped so much to make buying decision. I didn't buy the bike you suggested but your advice helped me buy the RIGHT bike for me!
I think your right on the money by saying we should look at this as a stand alone bike on its own. I've always likes the tiger 1200 due to the fact that it's different.
Once again a thorough and well presented, unbiased review. But I beg to differ from one of your final conclusions. You stated that why would anybody bother with a traditional sports-tourer when you can get a motorcycle like the Thriumph 1200 or the Bmw GS, for that matter.
I have to say first that i live and ride in mainland Europe where off-road riding is as good as impossible, we don't have large open spaces like the ones you can enjoy in the States or in Australia. Most of us stick to the blacktop. I use to ride a R1250GS, I know how good that bike is but I swapped it after 36000 kms for a traditional inline-four sport touring bike, a Ninja 1000sx and I find I do the same things with it that I did on a GS, weekends, evening blasts, the odd ride to the city or 4000 km motorcycle holidays. The GS is far better if you do two-up riding, which I don't and light off-roading, which I don't do either. For everything else I prefer a bike that is more compact, lighter, much lower and which is a more engaging ride. I changed my style of riding to suit the bike (no more using the leverage of the large handlebar to turn in), I use my body much more and I just get more rewarding sensations. That's the way I see it but I'm probably not very representative. Regards
I am new to your channel. You are one of the few I believe I can trust enough to buy a motorcycle based upon your opinions and reviews. I love that you are not afraid to crack the throttle in a test and that you offer your opinion about WHAT YOU WOULD BUY when comparing competition. - Keep it up.
I appreciate that!
It's possibly banal, but I find the blue metallic colour simply beautiful. Thanks for the video, Ian.
Man, after watching the outtakes I quickly realized I would probably lose it making a video like that. Great job, lots of hard work!!!.✊️👊✊️👊
Loved the outtakes. It’s a reminder of how hard you work to bring this information to your subscribers and viewers. The effort, your attention to detail, the production quality and your precise presentation of excellent details are much appreciated! 🙏 thank you and can’t wait for information on the Rally Pro! Cheers!
One other thing these road-biased adventure bikes excell at is eating up bumps on less than perfect paved roads. They can comfortably maintain a respectable pace on roads the sport bike crowd wouldn't go anywhere near. Sadly here in California there are more and more roads in this category.
That's why I bought a Honda VFR 1200X after getting my wrists tortured on my Honda VFR 1200F.
You should see the roads, where I live: The Flanders(Europe). One does not even have to go "off road" to, actually, be "off road".
New Zealand as well😊
I really think you got it right with the title. The GT and GT Explorer fit perfectly in a sport touring category. It's not the big all-road ADV bike like the Rally Pro or GS-A or KTM. It's not the same as the BMW RT or FJR type of sport tourers either. It really is in a unique spot. Maybe that is polarizing for some, but that just so happens to be what I'm looking for. I came from a Multistrada 1260S to the GT Explorer and the Triumph is so much more comfortable to me and user friendly. I have some nit picks with it, but that's every bike. Nice review and can't wait to put more miles on mine.
Yours are by far the most thorough and useful motorcycle reviews on TH-cam. In addition to an excellent review, I really appreciate the spreadsheet you shared on the new Tiger line. I'm planning to trade a couple of my bikes for one of the new Tigers. Your reviews and the spreadsheet will be very useful in shaping my final decision on which model to buy. Thanks again for another great review!
Congrats on the 100 thousand subscribers, well deserved!
Your videos can never be long enough Ian.Thank you for another incredibly comprehensive review comparing and contrasting the most popular adventure bikes.Your efforts provide potential buyers like me with information needed to make an educated choice.👍🏻👍🏻
Your closing comment about adventure bikes being the next evolution of sport touring bikes is 100% on point. I've been saying this for years myself. Great observation.
The bloopers are hilarious. I love how you immediately looked down like you were reassessing your life choices that led you to this day.
I tested many Triumph motorcycles and it's a special brand with premium build quality.
The Triumph motorcycle that is very special to me is the Triumph Tiger 900 GT Pro.
The 900 has more than enough power and is a whole lot cheaper than the 1200.
And the colour blue 💙 is gorgeous.
Kind regards from the Netherlands 🇳🇱
I totally agree with comments concerning shaft drive v chain, however having studied the latest research from several different sources on O and X ring chains which indicated that any kind of oil on them shortens their life if they are used off road because the oil simply attracts dirt particles turns into a grinding paste, I now only use wax spray like Muc off dry lube which protects the outer links from corrosion but does not attract dirt particles nor does it mess your rear rim up. My local KTM dealer only uses wax and now having tried it off road on my 690 I will never use anything else. People do not seem to realise that a sealed O or X ring chain does not receive any lube inside the rollers anyway so the only point of oil is to prevent rust on the links which dry wax lube does without any mess at all on your chain and rear wheel. In fact I notice that the wax finish prevents a build up of dirt on the chain so it always stays clean.
I use machine greese on my chain. Makes a nice protective layer.
Does the job. I still rather have a shaft. Mostly because they are less likely to fail or have something jam.
Chains and sprokets have to deal with a lot of external dust and water.
@@ralphwarom2514 I used to use that when I was 17 because there was nothing better but I found it sprayed around the wheel and made a mess. Wax makes no mess at all and is waterproof if you go through a river.
For me it has come down to how easy the bike is to lift after a drop. Dropping a 500+lbs bike is where the real adventure starts.
" I just can't seem to ride this bike slow" 😂 My same thoughts on my Multi V4S. 🤘. Great review Ian as always, cool to see how the ADV competition is stacking up and what they're bringing to the game and making the competition better
I think I saw all reviews of the new Tiger 1200 here on TH-cam, but yours is the best; good in-depth technical information, good comparisons of the competition, honest opinion, giving it the beans and I all like that 👍.
I think a new GS will be revealed next september as a '23 model because BMW exists 100 years next year, so something has to be done me thinks.
Keep up your good reviews mate! Cheers from The Netherlands
Rode the 900 Rally Pro at the IMS in TN and was blown away....this is that ++. Hit on their hands. Good review.
Ian, did you know that bmw sold over 60,000 pieces of pie last year?
I have a 2020 900 tiger rally pro. It's not perfect, but pretty close for the riding this 70 year old geezer enjoys. Love the stonking induction growl that comes up from the airbox when you give it the beans.
Congrats on the 100k.
It's very uplifting to hear from older men talking about how they ride these bikes, I'm just turning 60, freaking me out.
So I appreciate this 70-year-old gentleman speaking up here. Wow hitting the trails and the roads at 70, awesome!
I am considering stepping into the ADV world from my current Honda Goldwing. I am a bit height challenged at 5’8 with a 30” inseam.
Years ago I owned a 2005 GS1150 adventure with and an aftermarket lowered suspension. It fit me great. After watching your video I am heading to my local Triumph dealer and try the Tiger 1200 Pro on for size.
Thanks for the informative video.
Btw… I am a bit jealous of your awesome house and it’s location.
Cheers!
Thank you Ian, the best in depth reviews on the web with just the right mix of tech detail and the subjective feeling side of things. You should take this as a compliment, I'm a German engineer from the heartland of Engineering and I follow the big German media. Greetings from England, AndyB
Great job. I believe you are thee most thorough motorcycle introduction/orientation emcee. I'm without a nice street bike right now and your ride-cam was a great ride along for me. GOD bless.
I just picked up a 900 GT Pro. I live in Idaho where dirt mileage way outnumbers pavement. I’m of an age where I’m not going anywhere that needs the rollover advantage of a 21” front wheel. I mounted Dunlop Trailmax Missions and the dirt performance is all I need. And the 19” front wheel is a blast on the twisties . They’re crazy good bikes . If I was larger and younger the 1200 would be a no brainer.
Thanks for this fine and nicely detailed video, sir! After 5 GSs over a 30+ year span and 45 years of Beemers overall, I’ve just pulled the trigger on a new Rally Explorer. Triumph has come so far since my first bike (RIP old Bonnie), and I am absolutely chomping at the bit to get my mitts on this! Your review and comments have confirmed that I’ve made the right decision. Just waiting on my tag and paperwork to arrive from my home state. Thanks! Count me as a new sub.
You have some awesome roads around you ! I own a 2016 tiger 800 xcx and love it.. .I can't imagine how much better the new ones must be !
I'd love to see where you can get a comparably equipped GS1250 to my 1200Rally Pro. The $4k difference was a huge factor to me. And BMWs expensive dealer service costs. I like both bikes but I spent my money on Triumph this time.
The buttons, turn signals, joy stick, even after a year I still fumble between the two. Wonderful review.
Strange how companies who made bad design decisions feel like they have to stick to them because they think the users got used to it and would prefer the same on new models.
I hope you get the 1 million TH-cam play button soon. You deserve it. Congrats 100k 👏🏻👏🏻🥳
Congrats on reaching 100K subscribers. Another excellent review. Your reviews had a huge impact on which bike I purchased, (2022 GSA). Thanks for all your hard work.
Excellent point I agree, this is the new evolution of the modern sport touring bike now. This is an amazing bike!
The irony that I looked at this bike, then looked at the FJR 1300, and it's not even close. This new tiger is unreal. Was an absolute blast to ride. Interested however to see how the 1300GS turns out first.
I'm a long time owner of FJR1300 the last being a 2017 model until 2months ago. Now I'm on the 1200 GT Explorer its an amazing bike. Great review by the way Ian was noding my head the whole way through lol
I’m currently considering both the fjr and the gt explorer…it’s a difficult choice 😅
Fjr kind of long in the tooth, but reliable. Tiger has more options.
Guess I better go sit on both and get a feel of them 😊
I bought the Tiger 900 Rally and at 5'9" with the windscreen all the way up the wind goes right over the top of my dual sport helmet. I also have a hard time riding it slow, the bike wants to ride, its one of the best built machine's I've ever seen the weight is perfectly balanced, it doesn't feel heavy. I can't wait to get the 1200 GT Pro for my pure road bike. Who needs a sport bike, when a dirt bike, and a Tiger will cover everything I do.
Another great job Ian. Very impressed that you didn't sit on the fence at the end and gave the Triumph the edge over your beloved Beemer (though with the caveat that you're eagerly anticipating the new BMW!). Another thorough review. Congrats on the 100k subscribers too. Hard-earned and very well deserved. 👍
Ian, congratulations on not what you reviewed (which was terrific), but how you review. Impressive. Thank you.
Tested the GT Explorer and the Rally Explorer and went for the Rally as the ergonomics were better for me. Still running it in but great so far!
Great review as always. I wish at some point manufacturers start refocusing more on weight reduction and simplicity. They also need to reduce valve check schedule (like harley did), we’re in 2022, hydraulic valve lifters that require 0 maintenance have been around for almost 100 years.
Completely agree, more reviewers should focus on the service element. I just paid a fortune for my 32K km service on the outgoing Tiger 1200 and the bill was eye watering. Great move by Harley on the PA, not enough made of that feature.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff 😂😂😂
Thats so true @speedytrip
Ya it's as They Strategically Plan For Making Gobs Of Money On Valves , it's Making Me a Little Ticked. Lol
@@bryanmathew2079 weight of the system and inertia are the issues on high RPM bikes plus costs. Harley have done a great job although they have let themselves down with a short service interval driven by something else?
Congrats on 100,000 subscribers. Your reviews are possibly the most thorough on the net so good luck and keep it up!
Congrats, Ian, on the 100K subscribers! Well done, your hard word and attention to detail are appreciated.
Hi, a new subscriber ! (from Brazil, Amazonas - "rain forest"). I've bougth a month ago a Tiger 900 GT Pro. I'm happy with the bike and your video is very nice to watch. Keep doing this great Job... Greetings!
I have the 1200 GT Explorer model with the 7.9 gallon tank and blind spot radar. It's an excellent road-bias, sport touring style ADV bike, and a blast to drive on the roads in the mountains while eating up long highway slogs well too. I've also owned a 900 GT Pro, and a HD Pan America Special, and the new Tiger 1200 is my favorite of the bunch. I feel like I'm driving a rocket ship when I'm on it.
What didn't you like about the 900?
Ian, the film quality and presentation of your video's is vastly improving. Thank you for this wonderful review. I'm not considering this bike but anything you review is entertaining to watch.
Congrats on the growrth of the channel, its really flying and all your hard work on the content is paying off.
Thanks a ton!
Thanks!
Congrats on the subscribers! I just picked up my brand new GT Explorer after trading in my Super Tenere. I only have a couple of hundred miles on it but you really nailed that review, pretty much my thoughts exactly. A bigger/wider screen would be nice and I do miss being able to adjust the shifter lever. Also I would like more info on the screen like the trip Odo and the tpms info. Maybe you can add it but I have not figured that part out yet. Amazing bike, and I love the seat, only done a 3 hour ride at one sitting and it was fine but time will tell. Oh you may want to blank out the speedo in future videos, never sure who is watching ;)
Thank you so much for your time. Absolutely the best review videos I could find. Test drives are uncommon where I’m from and sales guys are bias! I started with an open mind and with a wide range of options and your reviews helped me narrow things down to a final decision :). Going to buy next week !! Cheers ❤🎉
Great vid Ian. I just bought a 2023 GT Pro! I REALLY wanted the 1300GS after driving it but this 1200 was literally 12k cheaper out the door. Can't beat that! Maybe in a few years I'll still love it or switch to a used 1300GS, ha ha.
amazing deals on those tigers, great choice
As usual Ian, a great review. I really love the reviews you do, and how you break everything down.
Just bought a 2022 and have close to 1K on the clock already. Love it
Nice Nick, I went with a Rally Explorer and I have 1800 on it so far 👍🏼
Let’s wait and see how the Tiger holds up out in the wild. As a rule of thumb, I never buy the first model year of anything. So, this year I opted for the new R1250 GSA Rallye. It may be the last year for the 1250 but they have the engine and chassis sorted and the bike has been on the same basic platform for awhile now so you know what you are getting.
I could not care less about a few pounds on big adventure bikes……….they are ALL too heavy for anything but fire roads. I want something to carry my gear, see me through to the end of the trip and be a good travel companion.
The Triumph MAY be that but I am certain the GSA is all of that.
Brilliant review! I bought a GT Explorer. I am now 6,000 miles in and it is a fabulous bike. Not my favourite bike, that is the Triumph Rocket TFC, but that is one of a kind. Great job Triumph!
Excellent review as always. Don't worry about the length too much, there was no filler, all important information, so it did not seem too long to me.
I wonder how the GT would fare off-road with 50/50 tires. Since even the most aspirational riders will hardly ride more than 10% of the time off-road with such a heavy beast, I think the most sensible option would be to spec out the GT for the occasional off-road travails.
Or vice versa, is the Rallye version good enough on the road even for the 90% street rider? I think that would be great to suss out in your upcoming review of the Rallye version. If we're all realistic, the vast majority of Tiger 1200s will spend pretty much all their time on the road.
Congratulations on your 100k. And great video by the way!
You were tearing up those twisties and getting nice and low. Sick riding!!
Just looked at TIGER GT Pro this morning do timing great thank you very much a great unbiased review. Very helpful. I am looking at the GS as well. Perfect. 👍🏍Paul- NZ.
Excellent review, very thorough and relevant to real world riding conditions for those of us who favor adv bikes not so much for their off road capabilities, but more like upright sport touring machines. In that respect one of the best GTs I have ever owned was a 2000 Cagiva Gran Canyon (yes, spelled like that after the lawsuit from the National Park Service) and this new Triumph seems to have all the good that the Cagiva had + a nice long list of modern upgrades that tick all of the boxes in my personal checklist. Looking fwd to seeing/trying one in person thanks to you.
What an amazingly comprehensive video. The final minute said it all and was the swinging point for me to choose the Triumph. Triumph with all the latest technology and the BMW so much older, which in itself is extraordinary to be compared so closely to the Triumph.
Very good information! People keep asking me why I chose the Tiger 1200 Rally Explorer. Lol....Now I can stop trying to explain and just refer them to this video.
Great Work Ian. Not too long, especially for someone trying to decide on what adventure bike to purchase. Cant wait for the Triumph Rally Pro review. That one has been on my list for a while.
Solid review as always, I do appreciate the amount of time you put into these. I do like this bike, and it is probably my second choice, but my first choice is the Pan America but the thing holding me back on that bike right now is all the negatively about its reliability its crazy. I am holding out for a 2023 model and hope that have all the issues resolved.
My same hope for ‘24…
Congratulations for 100 k 👍
I have 4900 miles on my 23' GT Explorer, what a machine!!! The vibrations were kinda bothersome for the first 1200 miles but now it's vibe free till about 90mph. It's way better than the 900 GT Pro I traded in and has way less vibrations, that 900 was horrible...... Either I performed the break-in procedure correctly or got lucky with a good bike, I was worried with about 50% if people complaining about the felt vibrations.
I have the same bike as you and the vibrations would be my only complaint. I have 700 miles on mine. Do you think you just got use to the vibrations or did they actually go away? How would that be possible for them to go away?
@@davehemmerly8496 as the engine breaks in it loosens up a little bit. I'm not easy on it either, I use the higher rpms alot on twisty roads.
@@davehemmerly8496 I was trying to find an explanation from a engine builder/machinist that explains the vibration and frequency zones of an engine that was posted in a 1200 tiger group on Facebook but I couldn't find it. Basically you go past the vibration zone with the rpms, don't sit in the rpm range where it vibrates, also using the higher rpms alot and varying the rpms thru those vibration zones will smooth them out over time. I'll sit in 2nd and 3rd gear and just use the engine rpm to set mph for an hour or two on a twisty road. I'm currently at 10,100 miles on my GT Explorer.
@@nscott26 Wow you never get off that thing lol. I love everything about the bike except the vibration in the handlebars. It's not a deal breaker but I would love to know that it can be remedied. It took me a full week to decide between the GT Explorer and the V4S Multistrada and sometimes I question whether I made the right choice or not. If it gets smoother, I will never look back.
@@davehemmerly8496 I rode 1400 miles over Labor Day weekend thru Glacier National Park and around Montana, get out and ride, use those higher rpms and enjoy that glorious intake roar, it should loosen up and get better!
On your cheat sheet you say no cruise option on the entry level GT, it is available as an option here in Europe at least. Best review to date though with some great induction note audio.
Thank jou! Just sold mu BMW 1250GS a few months ago because it is not a boxer anymore. I,ve had 5 GS over the last 9 years, and believe bmw is losing it now. Now riding a bmw scrambler but looking for coming year for something else. So for me this is a great review and i am gonna test ride it. Thanks man!!
Great review Ian, but I have to disagree with one of your final points about choosing this bike over a modern Sport Tourer. For primarily road touring on highway and twisties, it's hard to beat the R1200/R1250RT. Particularly for 2 up touring.
Best bike reveiw,,, my bmw800& 1250bmw rt is hard to beat..I'm eyeballing this Triumph 1200 for now."I like all bikes,"great content.,
Congratulations 🎊 👏 on your one million subscribers..keep of the good work.
Fantastic review Ian.Honest as always.
It may be a small complaint, but I wish the manufacturers would figure out how to route the exhaust so they don't have to reduce capacity of one saddlebag by half. Oh yeah, and save the centerstand.
Hi Ian my 2017 AT manual does that, now that I'm more comfortable with the bike I am able to enjoy it at low speeds thank you for your content.
Couldn't wait for the Triumphs to arrive so I bought a '22 GSA/40years model. Watching your review made me wonder if I'd chosen the right one (but only for second or two ;- )
Truth is, the best solution would be to own both!
Great review thanks. Regarding seat height, BMW have now introduced a whole range of height options (here in Europe) including one that actually lowers the frame of the bike so that even people just over 5ft can ride comfortably. Hopefully other manufacturers will do this.
Awesome review, as always! I just bought a 1250 GS Ralley, but the Triumph 1200 does look good!
I’d love to see you do an in depth review of the Tiger 900 GT Pro. I’m trying to decide if I can downsize from my ‘09 RT1200 to a top spec midsize, or need to stay above a 1,000cc platform. I’ve owned 3 Hinckley Triumphs but use my Beemer for multi day trips….
I just bought the 2023 model 1200gt Explorer and was shocked to discover that the odometer cannot be displayed on the TFT. Apparently you have to go into the service menu on the bike just to look at your odometer reading!
I read over 50 reviews on the Tiger 1200gt models and not a single reviewer ever mentioned this.
Another excellent review, one of the best channels on TH-cam. This looks like a great bike (but not as good as my MSV4S😉). Great channel.
I would buy this for its looks alone! Its so much more handsome than the others. I would be sneaking out to the garage just to stare at it!
Excellent review as always Ian!!!
Hi Ian, it would really be fun to hear a comp vs the 900 Tiger. Thx
Great vid, congrats on 100k, well deserved. I picked up my GT Explorer on Saturday…OMG it’s a great bike, certainly will be a BM GS killer…the weight reduction and handling is brilliant. The vibration is just not an issue…
Good video Ian, you have once again given us an honest and informative evaluation of a motorcycle, and you have made a good comparative analysis of bikes we, have an interest in.
Many thanks!
Awesome review, i was on the fence, but this video has me sold!!
Until Ian reviews a Super Tenere, it will remain the best 1200 cc ADV bike out there. Undisputed, until such time. Yes, I'm a Luddite.
... an awesome mile muncher, but a heavy slug in mountain twisties
Thank you for the great work. Your opinion and way of reviewing bikes is different and unbiased...
You’ve really put the Tiger on my radar. As a BMW owner, I was disinterested in another GS copycat. I gotta say the sound of the Tiger has piqued my interest. If it sounds that good through video, how much better will it sound in person? I hope to find out in a few years (when getting a new bike might be justified).
Brilliant assessment! Having owned of several Gs's and Triumphs, they both bring something special to the party. Both are amazing bikes. I recently tested both the GT Pro and Rally Pro and they both blew my mind. And i totally agree, one should look at this Triumph as a stand alone bike.
Whenever you are going to compare an adventure bike's abilities, the GS is always the Marque we go to and there is a reason for that. You alluded to that reason in this video when you said there is another GS coming out soon after 9 years of the current model. I believe the new GS will be a 1300 because one has been seen travelling the roads in Europe despite it having camouflage.
When other companies build their adventure bikes you can always see a similarity to the GS and this Triumph is a perfect example of that. Except for the engine and headlights there is very few differences between the two. If both bikes are almost the same price then it comes down to personal choice and nothing more. Something you like the look of and damn the specs.
I own an anniversary model GS which I'm not ready to get rid of yet, but if I did I would definitely consider the Triumph, given your report here and only because it is so similar to the GS.
Thanks for your time Ian.
Another important factor for me is dealer location and quality of service. I love the new Tigers, but Triumph dealers are hundreds of miles away from Durango, as are BMW & Ducati. KTM is the absolute worst at dealer & customer support, so that leaves the HD Pan American 1200 for me for “Big Bikes”. For mid ADV, my only option is the T7.
awesome review, really informative. Do not think longer video a bad thing at all.
I just rode the Tiger 1200 Rally Pro at the Touratech Rally. The Explorer model was not there. I own a 2021 R1250GSA so I compared the various features, ride and ergonomics. I found the Tiger to be a very nice bike, at least as much as you can see in a 20 minute ride. I found the joystick to be difficult in that you need to push it straight in to select and with heavy gloves it would be difficult. Also, with the explorer model coming in at a comparable price why would someone not by the original. I did like the fact that the 3 cylinder engine is a better feel and would probably fair better if you drop the bike than the boxer style. Thanks for another great review.
im super exited about this bike cant wait to see how owners like it by the way I think this was one of you best put together vids yet keep up the great work
Great review Ian. Having never owned a Triumph, I wonder about the long term reliability and maintenance costs of the Tiger 1200 compared to the comparable BMWs.
Great review man, really love the no nonsense detail you go into. Just a straight to the point honest opinion, love it.
Congrats on 100K. Watched your insightful reviews from day one. Goodbye GS hello Tiger 🏍💨😎
…because we’re not all tall and/or heavy enough to settle the suspensions on these massively tall and top-heavy bikes. I can ride any bike, regardless of seat height, but much above about 31.5-32” on a top-heavy bike is just too much work for me to fool with anymore. While I prefer a traditional S-T, I wouldn’t mind the option of a big ADV like this if it had pavement-specific suspension height and clearance. In the meantime, I’ll try to keep the old shaft drive S-T going (until they come back into fashion). For touring comfort, I’ll ride my touring bike. For ADVing, I’ll take my 750GS low sus. As far as Triumph goes, I wish they would just make a fully faired T120-Touring with lower first three gears and integrated luggage that I could put TKC80s or 50/50s on for easy paved and unpaved cruising. It’s their best platform and engine, in my (worthless) opinion (and the only Triumph I have ever bought). Very interested to see Enfield’s rumored Himalayan 650 in 2024. Nonetheless, thank you for the thorough review of what is undeniably an incredible, if somewhat high-strung, machine.
I have a Triumph Street Twin (my great love), and though I don't care about the sound, it's out of this world, even better than the Bonnie !