"That Guy" and "That Girl" characters are not the only people need to be gatekept, and as a community we need to be aware of the people in our community who are bad actors, not just people outside it.
As long as GW are strict and protect their IP, there is no issue with any new people, tourists, fad chasers or ETC. We all know how much GW doesn't want to share and in today's world, it's a good thing! I'm all for Henry Cavil creating something using his talents and knowledge but Amazon making a TV show is worrying. Amazon ruin most things they touch and they love to crush creativity.
True but, invincible and the boys do give me a little hope. That and I can’t mentally handle the thought of warhammer crashing and burning, never making it into larger media.
As far as I know no one is gatekeeping new people or those that just want the lore, just to paint or just to play the game. As far as I know only the bad actors are the ones we are focusing on.
Another comment mentioned “self regulation” and that’s what we need to aim for. We must allow new blood into the hobby or we end becoming an entitled, stagnant eco-chamber. And we must also regulate the that guy/gal who are already in the system. We don’t want ArchWarhammer calling the shots. Regardless of your opinion of him. The most important fear of mine is a bad actor entering the hobby through the corporate level like becoming head of a GW branch. Like Netflix’s Witcher. We’ve always filtered out the bad people entering the hobby before. We just need to nice but also take no shit.
Lmao I think that already happened brother, in like 8th edition lol most of the primaris they would talk about were HH Marines if I'm not mistaken and a bunch of them talk about crusading with the legions in the days of old lol
I recently got into warhammer. Unlike 90% of new ppl, the faction I gravitated towards and started to collect are the Tyranids not space marines (except night lords since they are cool af). I love them. They are just so cool to me. I explored the lore for them. Most ppl I met think of them as mindless beast when they are far from that. Hell, the ones in higher positions do have some form of personality to them albeit limited. I love how gruesome they can be. Especially when you get to learn more about them you realize that in some cases they purposely act super evil on purpose when they don't even need to be. They are my favorite faction and I am glad I joined when they are getting love because apparently xenos outside of orks get little love from gw from what ppl told me. I can understand why you want to gate keep. I would hate for the Tyranids to be disneyfied like they did with star wars. With that being said I hope you guys don't mine a new xenos player to enter the hobby.
As a fan of many hobbies that weren’t gatekept, yes. Absolutely. Everything that gets swarmed by normal people it gets worse. The companies running them cater to the people that come in new, and the product that you like becomes watered down and unrecognisable. We’ve bought these stupid pieces of plastic for hundreds of dollars for decades. Our voices will be drowned out for the people who haven’t given a penny, and will leave as quickly as they came. Not gatekeeping is basically inviting tyranids to kill your hobby. Every time.
Exactly. Normies of all political leanings ruin everything they touch. I'd rather keep my ultra niche and restrictive hobby to myself and those who like it the way it is instead of a bunch of locusts who will devour it and leave it a mess after 4 to 5 years.
I recently got into Warhammer 40k with my main army being Sisters of Battle. I agree with the points made in this video. Too many times I have seen franchises be ruined by the "tourists", for example Star Wars, Halo, and even DC/Marvel comics. I have hope for them in the future, but I really do not want to see this franchise ever go down that path especially since I just got here.
Sadly A lot of the gatekeepers do not view it like you are They take the setting way to seriously themselves and often do not see the dripping satire and often will be the ones wanting to change Warhammer the WAY they want it too
Comments like this usually preclude some rant about how you're not allowed to like space marines because they're evil. 🤦♂I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, what exactly do you mean when you say "people take it too seriously" or "they don't see the satire?"
@@DarkCatfish As in, people take it too seriously. Your strawman actually infers the opposite which makes this whole comment seem a bit confusing. Nobody is saying you cant like your space marines, but its dumb to act like they aren't inspired by elements of fascism or other authoritarian ideals from human history. People who wholeheartedly and "ironically" use the hyperviolence of 40k to support their real world radical beliefs are a thing and I've seen it in real life (Krieg painted as the SS) and online (people turning lore changes into culture war conversations). There's a certainly a crowd of people who try to make the absurdity of 40k and its often obvious caricatures of real world authoritarian trends seem cool in a way to aspire to, lets not pretend otherwise, Horus galaxy exists for a reason and its to cater to the bigot crowd. A big issue will always be in my eyes people trying to justify or make their own "good" guys in the setting that they can project their politics onto.
Gatekeeping is essential. Ignoring the groups who co-opt the phrase for their own motives outside of the actual related issue, gatekeepers are akin to gardeners. A good one will do so sparingly and rarely to maintain a healthy ecosystem
Genuinely found 40k because someone in my high school (graduated from college now) told me about how ork guns dont work when other factions try to use them, and my little mind didnt comprehend a concept as interesting and cool as that at the time, so I started looking into warhammer through the wiki pages, and it led me down the biggest and coolest rabbit hole ever. I'm just waiting on Space Marine 2 rn ngl, but I plan to get into the mini painting one day....one day.... *sighs*
See, something I can't EVER get an answer for, is how do folks plan on gatekeeping at all? Like, folks literally cannot stop 'undesirables' from engaging in the hobby. Ain't gonna unstick the neat stormcast lady head from my deathwath sternguard. 'Gatekeeping' is nothing except for being performative
While not possible 100% of the time there are ways. My local group is registered as a social club with officers, meeting, ect. If someone is a bad actor we can let the group know and have them banned. While harder to do with a store it’s possible let the regulars know if someone is a troublemaker and just isolate them. Like the Imperial Military you can’t protect the hobby as a whole, you can protect your sector and hope that others will protect their sectors. Only by holding our individual strongholds can we fight back against the spread of chaos. Also you want to kitbash your stuff that’s fine. You want to change base aspect of the lore and call people ists and phobes for disagreeing then I see no reason to interact with you besides the usual flame wars.
@@C0ldIron Very dependant on small local groups, and that still ain't gonna stop most folks that play at their place ot simply not at all. So the majority of us. Imagine the balls needed to try that at a LGS and not get kicked out.
@@ONIMOT100 Ture, although I can think of a few store owners ive known giving a ban. Several of the ones Ive been to have a neutral ground policy. No politics, no religion, nothing that's going to ruin the fun for others or start arguments. It would probubly still take a serious act of some sort to warren a ban but again players are the most effective by not engaging. Nobody can force you to play with them.
@@C0ldIron This works for now but as someone old enough to see several hobbies go mainstream (the big one for me being DnD) you better pray Cavill's 40K show fails because if it succeeds and he becomes the Matt Mercer of 40K? Nothing you can do to gatekeep then.
the thing about being a tourist, especially a good one is that you observe and learn the culture or experience and you if you leave you leave it unmarked/unchanged for the next person to enjoy. does that sum it up. we dont need to gatekeep we just need people to be respectful
When DID the mainstream stuff start happening? I feel like thats really REALLY recent. Then again my first real memory of 40k was wanting really badly to buy some used Space Marine models from my now long since collapsed local game store in the early 2000s so... Do I gotta start worrying about Halo getting slapped around by people coming in or is the fact its a shooter video game enough to keep most people not interested in shooters away.
@@Handi_Crafts Makes sense. Just about the same time Warhammer+ was rolling out...and so all the animations started to spread from there. Feels weird to think that Warhammers technically as big a series as something like Star Wars.
nice video, really lucky that the Warhammer community here is quite small so there aren't any "that guy's" so no gatekeeping required. many grey hordes though
Im definitely a lorehound and more focused on the video games like warhammer 40k boltgun, deathwing space hulk, Warhammer 40k inquisitor martyr. Im not sure what my favorite factions most likely plague Marines, empires children,world eaters, dark Angels, or blood angels
Just my opinion but I don’t like the word gate keep, I would recommend the word self regulate . Pretty much the same thing try to nurture good sportsmanship and hobby development while either ignoring or discouraging negative hobby actions.
Your opinions ARE whatgatekeeping is. We choose who we open the gate too. Only the bad actors want people to think we need the gate either open or close, that way they can argue we keep it open
im tired of those "gatekeepers" who dont want to get new players get it... just like game space marine... people have questions about stuff like wtf is this and wtf is that thing... and 40k fans say oooh another tourist that want to know shit... like fck off you are toxic... most of the people who are interested in warhammer dont want to change the game... sadly the woke hivemind is now trying to destroy the lore... especially with the female custodies... yes im new to warhammer. I always wanted to do warhammer but its expensive... yes i also have other expensive stuff to do. plus im bad at painting... but seems the 40k "Gatekeepers" dont want anything to do with new fans or players...
Personally, I'm a Lore nut. Would love to get into tabletop but I just don't have the patience to fully assemble the miniatures and paint them. Even then I don't like to think how broke I would be after that. And then you have to worry about how to best use your army and hopefully not forget anything too important about them in terms of rules. Respect to the tabletop players who dedicate time to the hobby.
Is Gatekeeping necessary for Warhammer? Me: Yes, absolutely, without question. Unless you want the pretty, popular girls to take it and turn it into a Princess franchise. *stares at Disney*
Capitalism is capitalism, if a company thinks catering to a wider audience rather than its smaller dedicated fanbase will make more money, that is what they will do. GW is a publicly traded company, it’s primary concern is maximising its shareholders’ returns and nothing else. At the end of the day the sad truth is that modern GW is run by businessmen rather than wargamers
40k hasn't been a satire in a loooooong time. It evolved way past that. Satire requires comedy and Orks and Ciaphus aren't enough. There's a reason it's nearly synonymous with Grimdark. Anyway I see a lot of the types of people that need to be gatekept out try and use that "it's a satire" argument to dismiss any fans concerns. Bad faith.
There is only war, and we shall burn the witch and heretic and purge the xenos and unclean….looks at local competitive scene….brother…..get the soap lol.
bad actors? they are still ther and i think they still a part ther, a company will not listen to tham. its about mony and with a to smal of a comunity this hobby will die. the that guy part of the comunity was alawys ther, for the starwars case its bin ther always the difrent was the big moause listen to tham thanks for episode 9
Gatekeeping is not meant to prevent new people from exploring the hobby/lore as we all love , its meant to prevent new people from changing the lore that we love , so others after them can explore what we already had the privilage to do. Dont be a dick basicly
That's a pretty cold take. All people who gatekeep claim that they do that to keep out the bad actors, but if those include people f.ex. under 20 or those who enjoy Warhammer in a way they don't like, is the deciding factor.
Been in the hobby since like 2018 and I am guilty of trying to get as many folk into it as possible :3 most ppl I see pushing for "Gate keeping" like that Carl Benjamin dude (Use to be Sargon guy right?) use it as an excuse to be bigoted or just bein a dick :( like, I'm playing Warhammer Fantasy with a guy who's been in it for 15 years in a crop top and they/them pins 😎
I prefer to think of it as being a good steward. The point is not to maliciously exclude people you just dont like. But to try to introduce people into the hobby in the way that it is right now. This is the way things are, this is how we interact and meetup and we arent changing anything for anyone but you are welcome to join us on our terms, or hopefully you can find another group if you dont want to join us
My sis got into warhammer after seeing some videos pop up and she wanted to paint minis. She collects world eaters. I encourage new players to join in. Just dont complain about the universe being problematic. This is a universe where we need to fly through space hell to get to a place. Like the minis? thats fine. Like the lore? Totally cool. Just dont be a dick. thats the golden rule
Gatekeeping is stupid tbh. There’s no point to it, like are you going to physically prevent someone who you deem to not be a “true fan” from entering a GW store? There’s also the fact that different people have different definitions of what makes you a true fan. I may consider you a warhammer fan if you have a surface level knowledge of the setting and own a couple grey minis. While someone else can only consider people with a full 3000 point fully painted army and have completely memorized said army’s lore as a “true fan”. A lot of the people who I see get called tourists are people who are just doing their own thing and aren’t trying to “change the lore” but because they don’t adhere to someone’s strict belief of what makes someone a warhammer fan they’re harassed.
Good topic. I agree. My fear is that if warhammer gets more popular it will attract more wokesters who will demand that things are changed and will ruin it much like (insert virtually every other IP here)
Im a vet of the hobby for the last 20 years. Its good for new people to come into the hobby, but its also good to keep standards in the hobby. Like putting in effort for your painting, or trying to keep era accurate for your armies (i see you primaris sons of horus army) for a system. Mind, i dont mind meme armies or art project armies but dont try tell me maid marines are a perfectly canon or grimdark appropriate army. Theres more to state on, but its a yes and no thing. I dont want warhammer to become another star wars.
So what exactly counts as a bad actor? Cuz by the way you described it it can include jerks who bully folks who are genuine members of the community, do modeling and painting, and play games but also just so happen to make custom female space marine chapters and advocate for the poster faction to not be mono gender. But your description is also vague enough to include individuals who advocate for female space Marines in general. And I'll be honest while there are bad actors who just want to poo poo on our hobby and setting and call it "problematic" and say we're bad for liking it, that mindset is more of a problem with certain Internet people in general (ie puriteens & boomers) clutching their pearls at anything they don't like and trying to censor everything they can to protect their poor fragile sensibilities... Those people are not the same as actual hobbyists trying to advocate for reform and greater inclusion in the hobby, and the bullies that go after the hobbiests are far worse than the pearl clutchers who can be more or less ignored and they will go away once they find their next pet project to clutch their pearls at
@@Handi_Crafts Oh I know you didn't mention female space marines, I was using that as an example. Since *that* tends to be what often leads to gatekeeping discourse from what I've seen. Additionally the image you used at the start of the video was posted by Carl Benjamin, aka Sargon of Akkad. Noted anti-feminist and if anything I don't think he's ever shown an interest in Warhammer prior to this lmfao. So it sounds like he's more of a "tourist" to the hobby trying to kick out genuine hobbyists to me lmao. Thank you very much for the clarification I appreciate that *a lot*. I've been burned by content creators in the past who I thought were cool but ended up being... less than great on topics important to me as a transfemme 40k fan.
Gatekeeping is ultimately useless, mostly performative and an exercise in externalizing the ego (or as others might call it, being an overbearing asshole). What drives the changes everyone hates in their favorite franchises is capitalism. Companies buy IPs and want to make their investment back by increasing the demographic target, and they figure they can do this by appealing to a wider audience, which they interpret as "must strip unique charm off, repaint as family-friendly". A single person in Twitter complaining about something never changed anything (unless we are talking LibsofTikTok and other rightoid influencers inspiring terrorist attacks). A multi-million/billion company with money and power certainly can, though. And they do, all the time. This isn´t to say you shouldn´t be alert to what sort of people approach your hobby. Carl Benjamin is the LAST sort of person you should accept anywhere near it, for example. But be aware that things are only going to get worse and worse as we continue down the path of economic profit being the only moral compass our economic and political system follows. The hobby will get worse, and that is inevitable, since GW has been controlled by accountants for a long while now, having displaced the nerds that started the company. All you can realistically do is treat newcomers with kindness and patience, and getting them to understand accept what makes the hobby special: that 40k is about having fun as things go down the drain, and that playing the part of a fictional asshole is tremendously entertaining.
Personally I don’t think gatekeeping the right call. Because if it stays the same it will eventually die and be forgotten. Do we stand back and watch it be bastardized? No, we can offer criticism and voice our displeasure yes. And as he mentioned, GW themselves act as a gate, you know the bad actors aren’t gonna spend the type of money we do.
Gatekeeping is about cultural maintaince. This is why Warhammer is for everyone but not, it's not for those who desecrate the culture. Remember, culture is a set of ideas, aesthetics, arts and stories limited to a certain group. Arbitrary things like being a Republican, democrat, monarchist or yes even a national socialist should not at all matter, those things affect how the player interprets the culture but should not achieve dominance to the point the culture is perverted into active political propaganda.
Gatekeeping your hobby is dumb and stupid. Just go about it the way you want to, and don't be chronically online. Star Wars is funny, because it has the same problem you briefly touch up on here, the politics. What is wild about this argument, is that war is inherently political. You can't have one without the other. Why do you think people like Fallout??? There's nothing that ISN'T political in that game. It's also incredibly easy to not be weird about your hobby. Don't identify with your nazis, there's extremely little out there that actually supports their worldview.
@@chadmrrsn no, see Andor, plenty of conservative star wars fans love how it pushes a socialist message. In fact, it's probably the most openly political thing Disney has ever put out for the IP
I say no to gatekeeping. There's enough gatekeeping in an expensive hobby such as wargaming already, and it diminishes any hobby, pushes people away thus confining a player base - your player base eventually withers and dies out. And all too often gatekeeping is enacted on people, not because they're a douche, but simply because they, don't have an expected affluence level, or, aren't from a specific background or clique of families. As a person from a working class family (blue collar in the US) I've never been affluent as a gamer and I've had to fight against the snobbery and gatekeeping enacted by middle class (white collar) affluent bank of mum and dad players all my life to enjoy the GW hobby. Even now, in my 40s, moreso on certain GW-centric forums!! No-one should be made to feel they aren't welcome to partake in a hobby, regardless of background and affluence, opinions or ideas, unless they genuinely are an absolute douche!
We need to gatekeep 40k from weebs for the fear that GW listens to them (already impossible I know) and makes felinid models. Making sure no one plays Night lords either is acceptable
"That Guy" and "That Girl" characters are not the only people need to be gatekept, and as a community we need to be aware of the people in our community who are bad actors, not just people outside it.
As long as GW are strict and protect their IP, there is no issue with any new people, tourists, fad chasers or ETC. We all know how much GW doesn't want to share and in today's world, it's a good thing! I'm all for Henry Cavil creating something using his talents and knowledge but Amazon making a TV show is worrying. Amazon ruin most things they touch and they love to crush creativity.
True but, invincible and the boys do give me a little hope. That and I can’t mentally handle the thought of warhammer crashing and burning, never making it into larger media.
.......HAS THE BASTION FALLEN?
As far as I know no one is gatekeeping new people or those that just want the lore, just to paint or just to play the game. As far as I know only the bad actors are the ones we are focusing on.
Another comment mentioned “self regulation” and that’s what we need to aim for. We must allow new blood into the hobby or we end becoming an entitled, stagnant eco-chamber.
And we must also regulate the that guy/gal who are already in the system. We don’t want ArchWarhammer calling the shots. Regardless of your opinion of him.
The most important fear of mine is a bad actor entering the hobby through the corporate level like becoming head of a GW branch. Like Netflix’s Witcher.
We’ve always filtered out the bad people entering the hobby before. We just need to nice but also take no shit.
Don't end up like us.
- D&D fans
The Horus heresy must be gatekept. NO PRIMARIS!
In what dark corner of the internet did you pick up that conspiracy?
Get over it.
Tbh I've been using some Primaries bodies for conversions lol, got a Rhino w/ boi sticking out the top and needed a body ^-^
I need my HH Impulsor damnit
Lmao I think that already happened brother, in like 8th edition lol most of the primaris they would talk about were HH Marines if I'm not mistaken and a bunch of them talk about crusading with the legions in the days of old lol
The biggest gatekeep is the prices
*sees price of the limited edition books on ebay*.... aaaAAAAAAHHHH
I recently got into warhammer. Unlike 90% of new ppl, the faction I gravitated towards and started to collect are the Tyranids not space marines (except night lords since they are cool af). I love them. They are just so cool to me. I explored the lore for them. Most ppl I met think of them as mindless beast when they are far from that. Hell, the ones in higher positions do have some form of personality to them albeit limited. I love how gruesome they can be. Especially when you get to learn more about them you realize that in some cases they purposely act super evil on purpose when they don't even need to be. They are my favorite faction and I am glad I joined when they are getting love because apparently xenos outside of orks get little love from gw from what ppl told me. I can understand why you want to gate keep. I would hate for the Tyranids to be disneyfied like they did with star wars. With that being said I hope you guys don't mine a new xenos player to enter the hobby.
I also got into warhammer and got with tyranids too
I got into the lore maybe a year ago? And I went directly for the necrons. Damn I love them.
As a fan of many hobbies that weren’t gatekept, yes. Absolutely. Everything that gets swarmed by normal people it gets worse. The companies running them cater to the people that come in new, and the product that you like becomes watered down and unrecognisable.
We’ve bought these stupid pieces of plastic for hundreds of dollars for decades. Our voices will be drowned out for the people who haven’t given a penny, and will leave as quickly as they came.
Not gatekeeping is basically inviting tyranids to kill your hobby. Every time.
Exactly. Normies of all political leanings ruin everything they touch. I'd rather keep my ultra niche and restrictive hobby to myself and those who like it the way it is instead of a bunch of locusts who will devour it and leave it a mess after 4 to 5 years.
I recently got into Warhammer 40k with my main army being Sisters of Battle. I agree with the points made in this video. Too many times I have seen franchises be ruined by the "tourists", for example Star Wars, Halo, and even DC/Marvel comics. I have hope for them in the future, but I really do not want to see this franchise ever go down that path especially since I just got here.
Sadly A lot of the gatekeepers do not view it like you are
They take the setting way to seriously themselves and often do not see the dripping satire
and often will be the ones wanting to change Warhammer the WAY they want it too
Comments like this usually preclude some rant about how you're not allowed to like space marines because they're evil. 🤦♂I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, what exactly do you mean when you say "people take it too seriously" or "they don't see the satire?"
If you think warhammer is a political satire can you tell me the political satire of the work making a human farm and devouring humans?
@@DarkCatfish As in, people take it too seriously. Your strawman actually infers the opposite which makes this whole comment seem a bit confusing. Nobody is saying you cant like your space marines, but its dumb to act like they aren't inspired by elements of fascism or other authoritarian ideals from human history. People who wholeheartedly and "ironically" use the hyperviolence of 40k to support their real world radical beliefs are a thing and I've seen it in real life (Krieg painted as the SS) and online (people turning lore changes into culture war conversations). There's a certainly a crowd of people who try to make the absurdity of 40k and its often obvious caricatures of real world authoritarian trends seem cool in a way to aspire to, lets not pretend otherwise, Horus galaxy exists for a reason and its to cater to the bigot crowd.
A big issue will always be in my eyes people trying to justify or make their own "good" guys in the setting that they can project their politics onto.
Gatekeeping is essential. Ignoring the groups who co-opt the phrase for their own motives outside of the actual related issue, gatekeepers are akin to gardeners. A good one will do so sparingly and rarely to maintain a healthy ecosystem
Yes
If you do not Gatekeep what you love, you will loose it.
Hold the gates,
Or see yourself thrown from the ramparts.
Or, accept it's a game about plastic toy soldiers and not take it so seriously.@@Nobleheart111
@@CaydenSworn Many people in 40k came from SW And we saw what SJW heretics made of it. No thanks!
Genuinely found 40k because someone in my high school (graduated from college now) told me about how ork guns dont work when other factions try to use them, and my little mind didnt comprehend a concept as interesting and cool as that at the time, so I started looking into warhammer through the wiki pages, and it led me down the biggest and coolest rabbit hole ever. I'm just waiting on Space Marine 2 rn ngl, but I plan to get into the mini painting one day....one day.... *sighs*
May I also suggest the Warhipster for painting?
See, something I can't EVER get an answer for, is how do folks plan on gatekeeping at all?
Like, folks literally cannot stop 'undesirables' from engaging in the hobby. Ain't gonna unstick the neat stormcast lady head from my deathwath sternguard.
'Gatekeeping' is nothing except for being performative
While not possible 100% of the time there are ways. My local group is registered as a social club with officers, meeting, ect. If someone is a bad actor we can let the group know and have them banned. While harder to do with a store it’s possible let the regulars know if someone is a troublemaker and just isolate them. Like the Imperial Military you can’t protect the hobby as a whole, you can protect your sector and hope that others will protect their sectors. Only by holding our individual strongholds can we fight back against the spread of chaos.
Also you want to kitbash your stuff that’s fine. You want to change base aspect of the lore and call people ists and phobes for disagreeing then I see no reason to interact with you besides the usual flame wars.
@@C0ldIron Very dependant on small local groups, and that still ain't gonna stop most folks that play at their place ot simply not at all. So the majority of us.
Imagine the balls needed to try that at a LGS and not get kicked out.
@@ONIMOT100 Ture, although I can think of a few store owners ive known giving a ban. Several of the ones Ive been to have a neutral ground policy. No politics, no religion, nothing that's going to ruin the fun for others or start arguments. It would probubly still take a serious act of some sort to warren a ban but again players are the most effective by not engaging. Nobody can force you to play with them.
@@C0ldIron This works for now but as someone old enough to see several hobbies go mainstream (the big one for me being DnD) you better pray Cavill's 40K show fails because if it succeeds and he becomes the Matt Mercer of 40K? Nothing you can do to gatekeep then.
the thing about being a tourist, especially a good one is that you observe and learn the culture or experience and you if you leave you leave it unmarked/unchanged for the next person to enjoy. does that sum it up. we dont need to gatekeep we just need people to be respectful
When DID the mainstream stuff start happening? I feel like thats really REALLY recent.
Then again my first real memory of 40k was wanting really badly to buy some used Space Marine models from my now long since collapsed local game store in the early 2000s so...
Do I gotta start worrying about Halo getting slapped around by people coming in or is the fact its a shooter video game enough to keep most people not interested in shooters away.
@@Handi_Crafts Makes sense. Just about the same time Warhammer+ was rolling out...and so all the animations started to spread from there.
Feels weird to think that Warhammers technically as big a series as something like Star Wars.
Look at star wars, star treck and TNO you will realise why gatekeeping is necessary
nice video, really lucky that the Warhammer community here is quite small so there aren't any "that guy's" so no gatekeeping required. many grey hordes though
Started as a lore enjoyer, became a grey hoarder, slowly trying to become a painter.
Im definitely a lorehound and more focused on the video games like warhammer 40k boltgun, deathwing space hulk, Warhammer 40k inquisitor martyr. Im not sure what my favorite factions most likely plague Marines, empires children,world eaters, dark Angels, or blood angels
He didn't recommend Arch, he's perhaps the best lore master around, he was essentially the first TH-cam channel to make 40k lore videos
Yeah to an extent. I'm not having the likes of polygon trying to put politics into.
Just my opinion but I don’t like the word gate keep, I would recommend the word self regulate . Pretty much the same thing try to nurture good sportsmanship and hobby development while either ignoring or discouraging negative hobby actions.
*Yes.*
Hwo would you gatekeep warhammer though? Steal the models they already bought like wtf
Your opinions ARE whatgatekeeping is.
We choose who we open the gate too.
Only the bad actors want people to think we need the gate either open or close, that way they can argue we keep it open
Let destiny 2, the mcu, and Star Wars be perfect examples of what happens when you don’t gatekeep.
im tired of those "gatekeepers" who dont want to get new players get it... just like game space marine... people have questions about stuff like wtf is this and wtf is that thing... and 40k fans say oooh another tourist that want to know shit... like fck off you are toxic... most of the people who are interested in warhammer dont want to change the game...
sadly the woke hivemind is now trying to destroy the lore... especially with the female custodies... yes im new to warhammer. I always wanted to do warhammer but its expensive... yes i also have other expensive stuff to do. plus im bad at painting... but seems the 40k "Gatekeepers" dont want anything to do with new fans or players...
I need more warhammers.
Since that girl represents 1% of the hobby (probably 1% of 1%) it’s really a none issue.
Personally, I'm a Lore nut. Would love to get into tabletop but I just don't have the patience to fully assemble the miniatures and paint them. Even then I don't like to think how broke I would be after that. And then you have to worry about how to best use your army and hopefully not forget anything too important about them in terms of rules. Respect to the tabletop players who dedicate time to the hobby.
@Handi_Crafts If I were to get an army, I would want to make it and paint it myself. I don't know why, but that's how it is with me.
Is Gatekeeping necessary for Warhammer? Me: Yes, absolutely, without question. Unless you want the pretty, popular girls to take it and turn it into a Princess franchise. *stares at Disney*
*YES*
I'm going to gatekeep hand's hearing lost
Pretending like Arch doesn't exist are we?
You must hold the gate,
Or see yourself thrown from the ramparts.
*Principal Skinner:* Yes! Yes it is.
Capitalism is capitalism, if a company thinks catering to a wider audience rather than its smaller dedicated fanbase will make more money, that is what they will do. GW is a publicly traded company, it’s primary concern is maximising its shareholders’ returns and nothing else. At the end of the day the sad truth is that modern GW is run by businessmen rather than wargamers
40k hasn't been a satire in a loooooong time. It evolved way past that. Satire requires comedy and Orks and Ciaphus aren't enough. There's a reason it's nearly synonymous with Grimdark. Anyway I see a lot of the types of people that need to be gatekept out try and use that "it's a satire" argument to dismiss any fans concerns. Bad faith.
Not necessarily just look at starship trooper it’s not funny but is satire. Dune is also like that
THAT guy is the sweaty nerd telling others how to play with their plastic soldiers, not the one expressing their creaticity or their opinion
There is only war, and we shall burn the witch and heretic and purge the xenos and unclean….looks at local competitive scene….brother…..get the soap lol.
@@Handi_Crafts lmfao
bad actors? they are still ther and i think they still a part ther, a company will not listen to tham. its about mony and with a to smal of a comunity this hobby will die.
the that guy part of the comunity was alawys ther, for the starwars case its bin ther always the difrent was the big moause listen to tham thanks for episode 9
Remember new 40k nerd. The 8th legion is the best legion
Gatekeeping is not meant to prevent new people from exploring the hobby/lore as we all love , its meant to prevent new people from changing the lore that we love , so others after them can explore what we already had the privilage to do.
Dont be a dick basicly
It does annoy me when people equiate ork stormboys to real nazis. Seen way to many people bady faith critisize those ork models
That's a pretty cold take.
All people who gatekeep claim that they do that to keep out the bad actors,
but if those include people f.ex. under 20 or those who enjoy Warhammer in a way they don't like, is the deciding factor.
Then it would be an example of bad gate keeping as described in the video…did you even watch the video fully?
Been in the hobby since like 2018 and I am guilty of trying to get as many folk into it as possible :3 most ppl I see pushing for "Gate keeping" like that Carl Benjamin dude (Use to be Sargon guy right?) use it as an excuse to be bigoted or just bein a dick :( like, I'm playing Warhammer Fantasy with a guy who's been in it for 15 years in a crop top and they/them pins 😎
I prefer to think of it as being a good steward. The point is not to maliciously exclude people you just dont like. But to try to introduce people into the hobby in the way that it is right now. This is the way things are, this is how we interact and meetup and we arent changing anything for anyone but you are welcome to join us on our terms, or hopefully you can find another group if you dont want to join us
How can you not mention Arch? The best lore channel ever
opposite day?
People like "that guy" and "that girl" see a space wolf and automatically think furries and it infuriates the fuck outa me
We absolutely need to be gatekeeping
My sis got into warhammer after seeing some videos pop up and she wanted to paint minis. She collects world eaters. I encourage new players to join in. Just dont complain about the universe being problematic. This is a universe where we need to fly through space hell to get to a place. Like the minis? thats fine. Like the lore? Totally cool. Just dont be a dick. thats the golden rule
Gatekeeping is stupid tbh. There’s no point to it, like are you going to physically prevent someone who you deem to not be a “true fan” from entering a GW store?
There’s also the fact that different people have different definitions of what makes you a true fan. I may consider you a warhammer fan if you have a surface level knowledge of the setting and own a couple grey minis. While someone else can only consider people with a full 3000 point fully painted army and have completely memorized said army’s lore as a “true fan”.
A lot of the people who I see get called tourists are people who are just doing their own thing and aren’t trying to “change the lore” but because they don’t adhere to someone’s strict belief of what makes someone a warhammer fan they’re harassed.
Good topic. I agree. My fear is that if warhammer gets more popular it will attract more wokesters who will demand that things are changed and will ruin it much like (insert virtually every other IP here)
Im a vet of the hobby for the last 20 years. Its good for new people to come into the hobby, but its also good to keep standards in the hobby.
Like putting in effort for your painting, or trying to keep era accurate for your armies (i see you primaris sons of horus army) for a system. Mind, i dont mind meme armies or art project armies but dont try tell me maid marines are a perfectly canon or grimdark appropriate army.
Theres more to state on, but its a yes and no thing. I dont want warhammer to become another star wars.
Maid marines are a perfectly valid thing to have.
Ain't nobody calling for something like them to be made canon, the fuck?
@@ONIMOT100your being dishonest, he never said you can't have them , please read again
@@matso3856 Read the second half of my reply.
@@ONIMOT100 I dont see how refering to a lie help your argument , it still doesnt change you being dishonest in the first place
@@matso3856 Point me to where people are unironically demanding maid marines be made canon
Lol imagine believing warhammer is about toy soldiers and not just politics and r34
So what exactly counts as a bad actor? Cuz by the way you described it it can include jerks who bully folks who are genuine members of the community, do modeling and painting, and play games but also just so happen to make custom female space marine chapters and advocate for the poster faction to not be mono gender. But your description is also vague enough to include individuals who advocate for female space Marines in general. And I'll be honest while there are bad actors who just want to poo poo on our hobby and setting and call it "problematic" and say we're bad for liking it, that mindset is more of a problem with certain Internet people in general (ie puriteens & boomers) clutching their pearls at anything they don't like and trying to censor everything they can to protect their poor fragile sensibilities... Those people are not the same as actual hobbyists trying to advocate for reform and greater inclusion in the hobby, and the bullies that go after the hobbiests are far worse than the pearl clutchers who can be more or less ignored and they will go away once they find their next pet project to clutch their pearls at
@@Handi_Crafts Oh I know you didn't mention female space marines, I was using that as an example. Since *that* tends to be what often leads to gatekeeping discourse from what I've seen. Additionally the image you used at the start of the video was posted by Carl Benjamin, aka Sargon of Akkad. Noted anti-feminist and if anything I don't think he's ever shown an interest in Warhammer prior to this lmfao. So it sounds like he's more of a "tourist" to the hobby trying to kick out genuine hobbyists to me lmao.
Thank you very much for the clarification I appreciate that *a lot*. I've been burned by content creators in the past who I thought were cool but ended up being... less than great on topics important to me as a transfemme 40k fan.
Gatekeeping is ultimately useless, mostly performative and an exercise in externalizing the ego (or as others might call it, being an overbearing asshole).
What drives the changes everyone hates in their favorite franchises is capitalism. Companies buy IPs and want to make their investment back by increasing the demographic target, and they figure they can do this by appealing to a wider audience, which they interpret as "must strip unique charm off, repaint as family-friendly".
A single person in Twitter complaining about something never changed anything (unless we are talking LibsofTikTok and other rightoid influencers inspiring terrorist attacks). A multi-million/billion company with money and power certainly can, though. And they do, all the time.
This isn´t to say you shouldn´t be alert to what sort of people approach your hobby. Carl Benjamin is the LAST sort of person you should accept anywhere near it, for example. But be aware that things are only going to get worse and worse as we continue down the path of economic profit being the only moral compass our economic and political system follows. The hobby will get worse, and that is inevitable, since GW has been controlled by accountants for a long while now, having displaced the nerds that started the company.
All you can realistically do is treat newcomers with kindness and patience, and getting them to understand accept what makes the hobby special: that 40k is about having fun as things go down the drain, and that playing the part of a fictional asshole is tremendously entertaining.
Cope
@@the98themperoroftheholybri33lol you are lame.
Personally I don’t think gatekeeping the right call. Because if it stays the same it will eventually die and be forgotten. Do we stand back and watch it be bastardized? No, we can offer criticism and voice our displeasure yes.
And as he mentioned, GW themselves act as a gate, you know the bad actors aren’t gonna spend the type of money we do.
I also recommend @IsyanderandKoda for lore enjoyers. It's Isyander telling Koda about 40k. They have an episode where Koda walks about dune.
all GW set should cost half the price , considering they are just bare molded plastic and you have to spend hours removing moldlines .
Gatekeeping is about cultural maintaince.
This is why Warhammer is for everyone but not, it's not for those who desecrate the culture.
Remember, culture is a set of ideas, aesthetics, arts and stories limited to a certain group.
Arbitrary things like being a Republican, democrat, monarchist or yes even a national socialist should not at all matter, those things affect how the player interprets the culture but should not achieve dominance to the point the culture is perverted into active political propaganda.
Gatekeeping your hobby is dumb and stupid. Just go about it the way you want to, and don't be chronically online. Star Wars is funny, because it has the same problem you briefly touch up on here, the politics. What is wild about this argument, is that war is inherently political. You can't have one without the other. Why do you think people like Fallout??? There's nothing that ISN'T political in that game. It's also incredibly easy to not be weird about your hobby. Don't identify with your nazis, there's extremely little out there that actually supports their worldview.
Having a political system is different from being metaphorically being bludgened with a singular message
@@chadmrrsn no, see Andor, plenty of conservative star wars fans love how it pushes a socialist message. In fact, it's probably the most openly political thing Disney has ever put out for the IP
@@handlinitificould please explain how it pushes socialism
Im sorry but pushing people away from a hobby just because of prejudice or bias is never acceptable
I say no to gatekeeping. There's enough gatekeeping in an expensive hobby such as wargaming already, and it diminishes any hobby, pushes people away thus confining a player base - your player base eventually withers and dies out. And all too often gatekeeping is enacted on people, not because they're a douche, but simply because they, don't have an expected affluence level, or, aren't from a specific background or clique of families. As a person from a working class family (blue collar in the US) I've never been affluent as a gamer and I've had to fight against the snobbery and gatekeeping enacted by middle class (white collar) affluent bank of mum and dad players all my life to enjoy the GW hobby. Even now, in my 40s, moreso on certain GW-centric forums!! No-one should be made to feel they aren't welcome to partake in a hobby, regardless of background and affluence, opinions or ideas, unless they genuinely are an absolute douche!
Funny enough most of the people I have seen gatekeeping on twitter have never painted a mini in their life
So u can't enjoy the lore,media games I'f you don't spend hundreds of dollars on figurines ?
@@ironmaniacxd5658 Yes.
@@jonhy8351 ah very well, I guess all those fans who bought all the novels and know all the lore can go to shit then
bad actors haha thats so dumb
We need to gatekeep 40k from weebs for the fear that GW listens to them (already impossible I know) and makes felinid models. Making sure no one plays Night lords either is acceptable