My goal is no matter what I want my opponent to laugh with me at least twice. If I can do that, then I know I’m going to enjoy spending time with the opponent
@@Ickbard I need to be able to fake out my opponent into believing I came to the match with a battle plan that doesn’t just consist of land raider battle buss convoy
I feel like a slower cycle would be healthier on so many levels. People will acclimate to the non hyper fast release schedual and get over issues of being bored pretty quickly. Especially if that extra time is used to make better thought out rules adjustments
I agree but the big issue is that GW is a publicly traded company. And thus have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders. They need a constant stream of income to keep number go up. also has the issue of getting all those new kits on shelves if all the rules dropped at the same time. I don't really play that much for most of the reasons in the video. Imo the balance dataslates are a necessary evil to keep engagement high ish. Imo they need to let the AoS games designers out of their closet to help 40k out. 4e is straight gas and the game is at the healthiest it's almost ever been. Spearhead is great, the meta is fairly tight and they only need little tweaks here and there. So we need to let the AoS and KT rules writers talk to the 40k ones to get that quality.
Just don't hang on every word GW says, use Wahapedia for rules, make your own missions, create your your own characters. Don't play Detachments, just choose 5,6,7,8 faction stratagems to go with what ever list you want to play. There are ways around GW's poor management and lack of FUN!
For me 10th has always been just a method to find new friends, and/or just throw some dice with some existing ones. It wasn’t until I played a full game of Horus heresy a few weeks ago when I found out the game itself could be, dare I say, fun. It was honestly a culture shock going to battle round 5 of Horus heresy and still be evenly matched with my opponent on the table. Sometimes a fun game means letting go of the competitive mindset, and that’s something that the 40k community and rule set should remember.
30k is far better because it's actually closer to the roots of what made 40k fun. Modern 40k just feels like someone took the DNA and processed it to be as inoffensive as possible.
I've been seeing more and more people returning to 2nd or 3rd edition, and it seems like a lot of players are favoring old rule sets they know aren't going to change rather than waiting around for whatever new rule sets GW decide to put out. It makes sense. You know where your army or a unit stands, you know if it's going to be viable or not, you know what to expect from how it preforms in a game, and you're not worrying if it's going to even be an option in the next edition. A lot more players seem to be looking for stability, even with imbalances, rather than hoping the next edition fixes issues that make some armies unplayable.
A 3 year core rules release cycle is Terrible…. You’re absolutely correct gives no time for the developers to properly balance the game and it gives no time for players who have their factions Codex released towards the end to have any meaningful time to play with their new rules, which should not cost $60. GW is their own worst enemy and I think we keep feeding the monster and keep on growing larger when they are so many other cool games out there and I feel like right now nobody is having fun when 3 hours seems to be the average time it takes to play 2000 points which has driven a lot of people towards skirmish games like Kill Team, and heck even underworlds has me curious. At this point, I’m willing to give anything a shot even crisis protocol, and I hear Corvis Bell is releasing a lot of interesting games right now. Every addition of 40 K for some reason has to be different than the prior and nobody wants to keep on relearning, especially the core rules which the company should be aiming towards making the core rules stable and to a state where your designers and developers can focus more on balancing factions, creating new models, updating ranges that haven’t been updated since 2007, it’s embarrassing that has certain factions like Eldar go this long using the models they’ve had until the recent reveal and there’s still no excuse to even have one missing Phoenix Lord, such as the one for striking scorpions. Just get them all done. Same with dark Angels where’s Ezekiel? Where’s Samuel‘s update? Same with Necrons. Did they really have to delete three epic heroes that have very interesting backstory’s. And why is the silent king allowed to be in the same army list has Imotekh? Remember, ninth edition had dynasties, and only certain characters with the proper dynasty keyword could be taken in your list ? That’s what’s missing in 10th edition. The more special characters you have in your space marine chapter the more powerful your chapter is because GW got rid of chapter specific traits and special rules and for some reason, they thought this was a good thing because the color of your army wouldn’t matter, but they didn’t realize people are attached to their white scars or Raven guard which have nothing… How cool would it be to play imperial fists using all space marine in Gravis armor and tanks and bolts and heavy bolters, and heavy intercessors and heavy everything!!! But no, they’re just like everybody else unless you’re playing a divergent chapter that’s stealing your detachment place style… It feels like 10th edition is definitely catering towards trying to get new players into the game while also trying unsuccessfully to keep the players who are more satisfied with a balanced game that can be competitive and narrative, but it just feels too simple and dumb down to the point Everything feels stale…
I second checking out Corvus Belli. A new edition of Infinity has come out, and the rules will be released online for free before christmas. They've also had a free online wiki and army maker tool for the last few editions. Just keep in mind that it's a skirmish game, so something like Kill Team or Necromunda instead of full blown 40k
I gave up on 40k classic and made the full switch to Kill Team... All the games have been very chill and I get to experience a huge variety of different squads. I've painted 4 Kill Teams and wouldn't go back to 40k classic. I've spent about 500$ Canadian on it. As a note, I've played against randos at my LGS and at least once a game "I dunno if that's the way that rule works but it's too awesome to deny." moments are regular.
I ended up dropping GW and just using One Page Rules (OPR) instead because even though it might not be official, it brings back the fun to me. I just use my old GW minis and use their army builder. You can still use their minis, but it's a lot more fun with OPR.
@sheaparkersp biggest one is there is no , you go then I go all at once . It's one unit each alternating , you go I go . So elite armies can have less moves / activations Also for the points , Armies are smaller ( which I don't like ) As a "Guard" player , in 40k at 2,000 pts I can have : 1 tank company or 3 infantry platoons or 1 1/2 infantry platoons & 1 tank platoon or I can go on & on on this :-)
@@rodneygaul2227 I find playing 4000 point games feels the most like 40k, you get to bring all your toys at that points level. What I’ve learned is Grimdark future points levels are about double 40k values, so a 2k 40k is roughly a 4k onepagerules game. The game scales nicely just the more units/activations ur adding, the longer the games will run
I agree with everything in this video. But i also firmly believe they should just bring the forc org chart back. Itd fix a lot of the current issues the game has.
I LOVE Warhammer, but I could never think of playing 40K. Too many rules, too much time. I love Kill Team with my friends every weekend, it’s so much better to us
@@eskhaphey2873they make sense and they don't seem to contradict but IV only played about 24 games of 10th so I might be way off base but I just don't like how none of the army's feel unique anymore I play eldar and 10th hasent been fun because I don't want to just use fate dice and shoot from the other side of the map I like the aspect warriors and the bikes but if you go that way you just can't win or make it to turn 3 lol
@@jakegunning61 i started in 3rd edition and the rules for strathammer (8th onwards, when stratagems were implememted) have been terrible. Previously the rules didn't need clarifications, erratas, faqs, rules commentaries, or additional rules added for no reason, the core rules just worked... because they were play tested. But these days 40k isnt playtested, or proof read, or communicated between faction rules writers, which is why its all patch on patch on patch. Ive found if you try to play 40k like a tabletop miniatures game the rules punish you. Whoever can file the most VPs the quickest by having units stand in the open at bus stop objectives, wins. Pre 8th editions were very good tabletop miniature wargames, post strathammer arent, they are completely different games.
I'm definately more of a thematic list builder but I think a lot of people are willing to meet you kinda half way once you build that relationship of playing a few games and going "Hey man that list is really good but do we want to try something different with me?"
Me and my friend are recently getting fully into the game and hobby after I had started out collecting and painting during the height of Covid. I have to say, I really disagree that warhammer isn’t fun to play - I absolutely love the game and getting better at it every week. I totally agree that the pacing of rules releases/changes should be slowed, but I really don’t feel the sweatiness that you mention here. Maybe it’s just because I’m used to a certain level of sweat in everything that I do, but trying to win is fun for quite a lot of people - myself included. Maybe im a spoiled CSM player who has 4 viable detachments (5 with the new grotmas one), each with their own thematic slants, but I’m always able to run the units I love and have at the very least a punchers chance to win. Would love to hear how your experience differs - maybe my scene is just full of noobs like me
I tried to play Warhammer with my friends but the rules and time took so long, then i keep playing opr , because i learn and play in a hour. I keep painting my custodes army, at start with hope, now i took my times , because when i ended maybe two or three editions, i need to had al painted to start , or i cannot had a chance to win with the rotation of the game
I’ve been in the hobby for about a year and a bit and I still haven’t ever played a game, with price increases, huge point drops, I still don’t have a 1000point army painted and I also have the thing where I refuse to play with unpainted models
At my locals, when you put your name in the discord, you either select Comp or Casual. That way no one ever gets their fun thematic list absolutely pwned by a competitive list.
I started picking up models about six or seven months ago and painting them slowly in between my other hobbies and life in general, and in that time the rules for the army, detachments, and game in general have changed so many times that I've completely detached myself from the rules, and am just painting and building models for the fun of it. Maybe I'll play when I have everything done, but as it stands now the pace of rules updates actively deters me from caring about the rules of the game.
7:13 terminators are one of those things like Knights where people will just refuse to play. I don’t really like knights being in regular 40K, I still got bad memories from 7th with eldar having the only Non Forgeworld Gargantuan Monstrous Creature which made it effectively unkillable by my Not Tau armies. Like I’d feed the bastard tzeentch marked chaos spawn packs to try and hold it up (spawn didn’t take up a force org chart spot back then and there wasn’t a rule of 3) It was blatant rules to move kits stuff (like the heldrake and storm raven).
Im new to 40k and started in 9th, but every time I see someone complain that GW updates their rules too fast invalidate codexes(which is scummy) they then also ask for multiple impactful rule changes mid edition. Which clashes with their statement that they want rule set in stone.
Most people are addicted to the setting. Because people asking for the rules to be free are still the first ones to buy the latest launch box and then bitch about the rules later.
6:40 Who are you playing HH with? In my experience, pretty every game of Heresy I've every played has been chill and enjoyable for me. Maybe a small handful were 'tougher' opponents, but I've almost always had fun, pretty casual games of HH, especially when compared to 40k where every game seems to be an uber optimised list.
Sounds like he's just playing in a sweaty LGS. Because most HH players I played with are about the narrative. Plus he mentioned there no one being in his area to play HH so I wonder where this sweaty group came from
Best edition was nr.4. play since the third edition. Ended Warhammer in the 6. edition. I tried 9.edition but I was so disappointed. To many stupid rules& those orders🙄 heard also everything you talked about. When I play, only 4.edition. It was so much fun& you never know, who‘s gonna win
I’ve personally never played 40k, but my lists are always themed. My Dread Host Custodian “Annihilatus Sodalite” is just as many Adrathic weapons possible. Aquilon Termies with Adrathic Destructors, Guards with Adrasite Spears, Contemptor-Achilles with Dual Adrathic Destructors, everything Adrathic. Because anything scarier than Volkite is cooler in my book. Tbh this list would probably be way more fun in Horus Heresy than 40k.
I moved from 40k to 30k since all the players I’ve met or at least 90% of the HH players make flavor lists or rule of cool or like events in the HH lists and people respect that and play for fun instead of winning
At the moment i havent played anything at tabletop and just started really building up a tyranid army, So far I just really enjoy painting the minis and building an army is kinda just an after thought.
I felt that since the 8th edition. On 5/6/7 it was a mess, but it was fun, random, and the narrative was baked into the rules. Now it’s just mechanics without any of the salt. I personally went to heresy, and it did an okay job capturing what it was before even though it’s not as fluff rules heavy as the old codexes were.
Having started playing 40k in 3rd, I've found strathammer of 8th 9th and 10th are just not fun. If you scrap secondaries and ignore the primary mission you will have loads more fun, as you will be using your units how they are intended to be used rather than only ever action monkies waiting at bus stops located in stupidly bizarre locations, because rules. When you play warhammer like a table top miniatures war game you enjoy it, when you play the strat filing datacard based administration game you don't enjoy it. If GW wanted missions to be fun and interactive they wouldn't be based on minor changes between objective markers. These objective markers would be scrapped and terrain features would be used instead to make them relevant. More detail on how terrain actually affects your units would add a tactical element that has been completely lost in 10th edition, since terrain only grants cover to enemy models that CAN see you and infantry basically ignore anything terrain based since solid walls can be walked through. Ruins should be tsrrain features you can embark in, if an enemy unit also embarks in the same ruin as you, you automatically count as being in base contact with all models embarked in that ruin etc. As for secondary missions, they should be faction missions. Khorne armies should get VPs for any model killed, the more blood spilled the more VPs they get. Eldar are a dying race, so want as many to survive as possible, meaning their faction mission should be based on the number of models they have remaining at the end of the game. Which then forces eldar players to play with eldar models how eldar actually are in the lore...
@brycedery9596 try to get out of ghe habit of NEEEEDING to only play current 40k, just go back to a better edition when you could use your legendary legend units of legendary legendsness 😀
6:35 - This. All over this. I empathise with this situation far too heavily as that's been my experiance as well. I feel the most imnprtant games to ever have isn't those Tournament games, nor the games with friends but the pickup game becuase that's the frist step on the social contract to get meet more people and more gain more freinds within the hobby. I've tried in 10th to do this but i feel put off frm trying again because all I faced was netlists on non-competitive boards and nothing takes the sails out of trying to enjoy an expaeriance when your oppnent just wants the end result of the game to be the experiance. All in all I feel the caliber of person has detaeriorated in the hobby imo.
It has became abundantly clear GW is simply fiddling with the rules rather than improving on them. Warhammer 40k being suck to play would have been forgeable if not for its horrendous pricing.
I must have got lucky, because every game I have played at my LGS has been fun, non-competitive and they've helped me out. Granted, I am 1 win to 5 losses, but they have all but one been within 20 points. I started a couple months ago.
I havent really enjoyed a game of 40k since 5th edition. Painting and collecting is my main focus amd rapidly becoming my main focus. Changes in my life over the last two decades (family, relationships, career etc) is also a big part of this but I also cant keep up with the ever changing landscape of 40k- and all this on top of some very creaky old fashioned rules. Its all made me nostalgic for 2nd ed, which was my first edition, and interested in other games including many nonGW things. But even then i rarely get a chance to actually play a game nowadays.
Only gotten into playing competitive this year and it's taken over my life. I spend literally any free time I have painting and this year I've painted up 3 whole armies. I also spend so much time trying to learn the tabletop and get better yet I still lose pretty much every game I play. This year I've gone 6W 18L 1D recently went 0-3 at my first RTT and are currently 0-2 in my local league. People can say "it's not all about winning" or "at least you had fun right?" And the thing is no it's fucking pissing me off losing all the time and although I dont ever take it out on my opponent I'm in a sour mood for a good day or so after losing AGAIN even after all my hard work to improve. This being said, I can't turn back. I've invested too much time and money to stop and simply hobbying without playing seems pointless to me so I'll keep plugging away and maybe one day things will improve. P.S fuck custodes to death 🙂 xx
I've been trying to put together a 100% kitbashed Emperor's Children army since 8th edition. It's my first and only army, and I have to say the experience has been infuriating. Finding out every couple of months that every unit in my army is unplayable for one reason or another makes me want to pull my hair out. I was sold this game by the grognards that once you bought a model, you could always field it. Hell when I bought the 8th edition rulebook, the GW employee said the exact same thing to me. Between the shit state of the game, constant prices hikes, and insufferable politics - I'm pretty done with 40k. I'm just going finish kitbashing my army and then throw it on a shelf to collect dust for all eternity.
Loved that you mentioned OPR as that's been my go to game. I use OPR's rules but play in the 40K setting. Its quite envigorated my hobby time, but I get that the system isn't for everyone. But its been perfect for me. I used to mainly play AOS and liked the index period but now the codex creep has arrived. Spearhead looks good though.
I quit when 6th went to 7th edition. I play Tyranids with the 5th edition codex which was decent but lacked a lot of things. Then the 6th edition codex came out with the new psychology rules and the new Tyranid artifacts and the massive nerfs to most units. But right around that time two other codexes had come out, Orcs and Dark Angles, which were also pretty weak codexes compared to much of 6th edition. So the people I was playing with thought that tuning down codexes was going to be the pattern for GW and I grit my teeth and kept playing. Then out came the new Ultramarine codex, with their shiney new Formations rules. And then the Eldar codex with their Formation rules. And these just a few months after the Tyranid codex with no formation rules. Then out came 7th edition which made the Tyranid psychic powers even worse and made the new "Shadows in the Warp" ability non-functioning. So it was obviously written with the 6th edition rules in mind, only a few months before the release of 7th edition, all the while GW was making SM and Eldar even more dominant. And Formations rules for Tyranids. Sure, sure. Just shell out $15 dollars for a digital set of rules that amounted to 3 paragraphs plus two and a half pages of fluff text. This on top of the faster game cycle and GW deciding that codexes should be hard covers when the codexes would only be useful for 3 years max, killed the game for me. I put my toys away and am happily spending my money elsewhere.
I just prefer OPR, like I occasionally look at the meta side of 40k, and it's always one army stomping while 3 haven't even gotten their codex yet, meanwhile if there's a single thing I don't like about an OPR army book, I can use a fan army book or pay $5 to make my own TLDR; I just hate that GW runs everything like a smaller company, messy, with minimal resources, while being the face of tabletop wargaming, then simultaneously acts like their shit don't stink
I think it was around 8th ed, where a lot of housekeeping with stratagems and objectives became a bit overbearing, and then put on cards you have to buy, therefore charging you for the privilege of having more things to keep track of. 10th is just the end of that path of over monetising over complication. While GW make some amazing minis, it still just feels like a thinly veiled cash grab.
i dont play at all, i dont want to spend the money on a full army i dont want to paint repeats of units i dont have space to store a full army i dont have anyone near me to play with i just paint what things i find cool
@@Handi_Crafts AoS has interesting units, but im not interested enough for a full spearhead i might buy a few skaven one day, but for now i dont need more grey plastic/resin
I dunno, i am SW, and i wait a 10th SW codex for already how many time? Editions longer, releases inside edition faster, balance each 3-4 months. And turn back to 9th rules complexity, i believe if all current balancing efforts where poured on 9th, we'l be playing a better game now.
I feel I've entered this hobby in a dark age. I remember the 1st time I walked into my local warhammer store. I scoffed at it and the idea of building, painting and buying literal plastic man. Fast forward to the release of space Marine 2 and after playing it and diving into the lore of the universe coming to appreciate the series way more. So much so that I started an ultramarine army. After the intro set I can't believe what fans put up with in this franchise. Don't get me wrong I'm enjoying painting building and hopefully soon to enjoy a game of 10th I've only played two games of 8th. However the amount of pure 💩 you need buy to get "started" is insane. Codex rulebook dice tape measure hobby tools the units themselves and more cause you didn't know you needed cards for objectives or terrain so you don't have to play with make believe walls or cardboard. It's pure insanity! Not to mention that GW can thanos snap stuff away at a moments notice even though you paid money for said unit because it was cool and was a good fit for your army, but balancing comes and nerfs it. As a fan base y'all should rally so that GW gets its act together with all the annoying purchase hurdles it throws your way and other problems that I wouldn't know about cause I'm just a newbie.
Everytime I just look at the endless rules and shit I'd have to memorize I just walk away, I tried 10th, went to a tournament and hated it so much I stopped playing (though I have not been super active in 40k since the end of 5th, the magic seemed to end and everytime I went back to it, things had gotten worse and everytime I try to go back everything is different in the same edition) You can't buy the books because they become obsolete in a month. I don't like apps and such I want a book of some kind.
I've stopped playing since 8th Edition. My issue with GW and how they do their game rules is: 1. The game is heading towards a more competitive format. There is nothing inherently wrong with that however GW's desire to create unbalanced or overpowered units and codexes for-profit is a conflict of interest with making a balanced competitive game. 2. The game is a waste of time and resources to me. After I spend money and hours painting my Army, It takes me maybe 30 minutes to an hour to drive to a location and set up the board, only for me or my opponent to start losing turn 2 and now we have to sit there for another 2 hours and one of us is not going to have fun. This might be worth it, if it wasn't for the fact that when you take time to learn your army and you get really good at it all of a sudden The Meta changes and the rules change and now you have to start all over. It's just an overall waste of time. 3. There's better alternative games that avoid these issues. GW it's just a part of the war gaming Hobby. I can use my GW miniatures for any game I want. Currently, I've been using them for one page rules or older editions of Warhammer. This may have its problems, but it's a peaceful life compared to GW's current games.
I still love the models, love the setting and I do like 10th edition if it's just me and a chill opponent wanting to kill an afternoon. It's the ever changing rules and constant bloat that cause me to run into a gotcha moment or rules argument with try hard that as of this time, made me just walk away from the tournaments. It's becoming the reason that I quit Magic so many years go. Some of my games would be Me: "My Thunderwolf cavalry is 2 inches away from those cultists and it's the charge phase, here we go. " Opponent" "before you roll, I play strategem A on unit B and because they are in detachment C and 18 inches from character C and they have warlord trait D, your'e Thunderwolves are -15 to charage, -15 to hit-20 ti wound and they take 100 mortal wounds."
I don't play, I don't even play necromunda and I am collecting one of every gang. I see no reason to play right now, because I think gw has chosen to balance around competitive rather than narrative and because they don't know how to balance nor care to really
Also gw continuously nukes their links so a lot of older content is missing that would have been really cool. Want to kitbash some zoats? you could! with full stats and everything. I wish they'd bring that back.
This has been my experience with 40k post 6-7th edition. Just a completely different game I have no interest in playing, but I still enjoy collecting and painting some ork boyz!
less rules bloat, focus on actually balancing factions instead of the rotating seal clubbing we have now, and GWs constant push for competitive. The custodes index they released today is probably my favorite out of all the new ones so far unless knights surprise me tomorrow. GW needs to go back to making stuff fluffy but actually viable for even casual play.
Warhammer has always been an excuse for me to kitbash monstrosities against god and throw them at my friends from across the battlefield as we shoot the shit. Needless to say we don’t play the actual game anymore but proxy models with other systems/games that we play while still making affronts to god on the table.
I drive 45 minutes each way to play 40k. I'm currently 0-6 in the Crusade games, and I don't regret the drives. If I *expect* to lose, I may as well try anyway.
@@Sybok51288 Right now I'm playing Salamanders. Through 4 crusades and 4 armies, I've never had more than a 33% win rate. (including Aeldari at the start of the edition.)
I highly suspect that the more accessible 40k becomes (which it is judging by Space Marine 2 and the glut of TH-cam content these days!) then I foresee GW eventually back peddling away from the competitive focus and onto something more 'casual friendly'. However, I also suspect this pivot will still incentivize buying more models consistently, perhaps with more 'themed' armies and detachment rules. Think of it more like MtG blocks or sets. They obviously want that kind of lucrative cash flow and brand recognition.
There are much better games around that have more friendly metas and even tighter competitive rules. My love for GW died with 5th ed and im much happier playing other games and laughing while seeing the salt drip off the 40k players on the next tables.
Completely agree. It's become such a pain to enjoy, though I am really enjoying the stripped down Combat Patrol mode +1 though for nobody wanting to have fun... its all meta everything, which isn't even remotely fun
I just got into warhammer with 10th edition so I never saw the "better days" of earlier editions. I get a lot of these gripes tho. My local shop that specialized in tabletop wargames closed, still have the typical game store but warhammer is pretty much dead around me, I have a small group of 6ish people to play so we're starting a crusade in january. Thankfully my armies have won the good and playable lottery (sisters, votann, death guard). Fingers crossed they change how they do detachments in 11th edition cause this is ridiculous having to wait 2+ years for a codex that is out of date on launch, plus the fact that once a codex comes out it locks the models in that army in allied units so my deathguard army is gonna have to change once the chaos knights codex cause I got 2 war dogs in there for that sweet sweet melta ap -6 (essentially)
I only play Warhammer 30k. I really like the rules and there's a massive group in Dallas that's all about the narrative so I haven't ran into a whole lot of sweat barring one guy who wanted to show us how broken blood angels can be because we talked shit. I just think the rules are simpler and easier to follow along with they also have more depth to them and I don't have to worry about it updates dropping out of GW's ass every 3 seconds.
Yeah, paying 40€ (almost 50€ now) for a book that will be obsolete in 3 years was already a moodkiller for me. The fact that i started in v4 and that the game completely changed didn't helped. Going back to Lord of the Rings was a bliss but... GW decided to get back to it too!
Imagine getting the 3rd book in an edition and then getting the last book in the next edition only to find out your book is going to be worthless in 3 months.
I’ve personally never played 40k, but my lists are always themed. My Dread Host Custodian “Annihilatus Sodalite” is just as many Adrathic weapons possible. Aquilon Termies with Adrathic Destructors, Guards with Adrasite Spears, Contemptor-Achilles with Dual Adrathic Destructors, everything Adrathic (with the exception of my Shield Captain whose forced to have a Pyrithite Spear and can’t carry Adrasite). Because anything scarier than Volkite is cooler in my book.
For me I usually just play with my friends(even if they table me cuz they play local tournaments), also your Coustodies Kitten mini looks amazing dude, nice job on that. And one more thing, what combo of paint did you use on Azrael's armor? Im trying to get my ICC ike that.
the youtube alg has been feeding me videos about warhammer and the gaming aspect of it i’ve been playing 40k since 5th edition and since 7th edition it’s been mostly horus heresy. i’m unlucky because most of my friend group placed a large emphasis on the game aspect of the hobby and we would play at a decently high competitive level and that’s why i can say with confidence that 40k has never been a good or fun system. it is incredibly easy to abuse or break and due to the high time and money investment when a game becomes one sided its a terrible feeling. plus the meta shifts so much as it says at the end. i used to love those ITC guys, i even got a chance to meet them and play on their stream when they were in san diego just before they got directly involved in playtesting, but i agree that their legacy has been a net negative the way i personally play 40k has changed. i went away to college just before the pandemic hit (rip) and since then i haven’t been in the same town as my friends and due to various circumstances i never sought a TTG group. i played with my buddies on TTS and completely shorn of the hobby and in person social aspects, the truth that 40k actually fucking sucks was laid bare for me and i was turned off the hobby for a while. but ive been getting back into it recently. i’ve been leveling up my hobby with new techniques and i not only found a good LGS to play at with a great horus heresy community, but a friend of my mom asked me to mentor her son in the hobby and we had our first meeting the other day and it was really fu to be in that position. at that meeting i had him spectate/play with his 1 unit of khorne hounds/roll my dice in a game of HH. in that game i got absolutely smashed, but it was weird because unlike a few years ago…. i didn’t care? i was fielding 4 separate freshly painted units and it felt bad seeing them die without accomplishing much but i just sorta shrugged my shoulders and said to myself it doesn’t matter, the actual game itself was such a small percentage of the time i spent doing this and my opponent was fun and gracious so it felt okay. i don’t go into games expecting to lose or engineer it that way but i think its an attitude thing, you need to let go and enter this nirvanah state and take your enjoyment from everything that led up to the game and the interaction that happens around it. having fun playing this shittiky written game system that has high RNG to boot, WITHOUT staking it all on whether you win or not, requires a shift in perspective and a high level of maturity
all that being said, it does feel good to win, and if feels good to have a close fought nail biter of a match, but that requires either a lot of luck or clear communication and transparency or familiarity with your opponent, which is hard to get in a tournament setting where you are matched against strangers under a time crunch.
I feel like this should be a time for peopek actually play a different game that isnt related to Warhammer in any way. So many people whine and complain about the current edition but they never vother to expand their horizons. So many people are just stucking playing ine game because of social pressure.
I get it. I only play 10th Ed from a stilmania mindset: leman Russ company with attached scout sentinel squadron. That is all. I did magnetize everything, though
3rd edition every rule for every army fit in to the rulebook. It's all you needed to play. They released Codex as lore and special rules books and every one was worth owning for the art and lore. New content is such pooped out slop. It's just sad watching 40K fail to love their lore and tabletop. They only love money now.
I have never played 40k. There is one store that has 40k events on the really bad side of town. It's only pick up games. A crusade style game with thematic list sounds like everything I want (with points not the power level thing). But everyone that would play 40k with me is across the country or on an island. Then there is the codex problem, where you are just better off waiting for the updates in a 3rd party app then buying a book. So, I am left with printing what I want and trying to keep it mostly inline to fix later. To sit on a shelf. Forever.
i think we can have a bit of hope because of how aos 4 is being handled right now. rules changes are a lot more concise. theres a heavier emphasis on fun and spearhead is goate
It sucks too when you don't get to play often (at most once every 3 months) and you've got people that play once or twice a week who will crush you in games and still look at you like you're trying to cheat when you mess up a rule (or order of said rules) because your brain is designed to prioritize remembering things for your job you're at 6 days a week instead of whatever 74th errata that's come out since you last played. I'm at the point now I don't even attempt to schedule a game even when I get a day off because I know I'm not going to score anything, whatever I learn that day will be forgotten by the next game, and my opponent is going to touch my models without asking permission once or twice leading me to nearly have a nuclear meltdown in my LGS. In other words, I'm glad I like building and painting because f'ck this game and f'ck all these sweaty neckbeards that play.
In my area we had 14 players of 40K. But they are into perpetual league play, to the point they don't have the time or will to do anything but that. 9th was a bad edition for me as these ppl didn't know how to use trees, walls, fortifications, only ruins. So I was perpetually explaining how to play on my tables. Now, 10th killed 40K for me, stand on 5 circles of dirt for 5 turns? mandatory terrain setups? (vomits in mouth). I have a large terrain collection that I cannot use and my favorite armies are/were crippled beyond use. I couldn't talk about the specifics of the rules anymore as they change too fast, for arbitrary reasons, for me to care to keep up. I played 3 games and bailed on the entire thing. I would play OPR if anyone cared to try but considering they wont even play a narrative game, that'll be an even harder sell. It's a deck building game now married to a FOMO/Live Service delivery method. I miss when it was a WAR game instead of a war GAME. Simulation of real world situation is a large motivator for engagement. Mostly I miss having a hobby.
Magic is relatively cheap and much more compact. Also has a casual/competitive divide, but with so many players and decks you probably can have years of fun for less than 100 euro. Magic Arena is free to play and learn the game, but you can probably borrow a deck and learn at a local gaming store. (Where they probably mostly play the Commander format, which makes games more random with 100 instead of 60 card decks that allow 4x of the same spell, and longer with 40 instead of 20 life points. A casual 2 player game of Commander takes half an hour.)
@@CTimmerman If I was interested in a deck building game I'd be playing that already though. The shift in 40K to that direction has helped turn me off from it, sadly. I'm into war games as a simulation; like escort missions, ambushes on MVPs, discovering hidden outposts, endless waves of 6 turn holdout, etc.
@@brycedery9596 Sounds like Call of Duty, Fallout 76, Helldivers 2, or custom rules that should be in 40k already. Replace a "bus stop" objective marker with a VIP (what did you mean by MVP?) and protect/carry/bring back to base/objective/deployment zone unharmed. Kill Team has a co-op mode.
The main problem with this analysis is that 40k and GW products overall are more popular than ever, a trend that kind of took off during 9th. While the newer direction may not be to the liking of more hobby driven people and older players, to say that this new direction is going to lead to the downfall of 40k is hyperbolic.
Its kinda wild that my group doesnt like me playing Custodes because I keep winning by a huge amount with them but I dont even run meta lists. I do love my Wardens and have since 8th edition. So I run often 2 squads. One with blade and other with Shield cap and then a bunch of other silly things and still I'm not allowed to play my fav faction I clearly love for more than just rules.
@@dilbob454 had a similar experience with my group whenever I used grey knights in 9th,hopefully you’ll find people whodon’t get butt hurt about losing and want you to change just so they can win instead of adapting to an army they know they play against regularly
@@HighMarshalHelbrecht0 Yeah I hope so too but its a massive shame because these are rather close friends. Its just tiring being complained at all the time and now some don't even want games against me, regardless if I play custodes or not.
When you want to play a game look up the current win percentage ladder for your opponents army and yours. Example: Aeldari 55%, Chaos 45% that's 10% difference so in a 1500 point game Chaos would start with 10% more of 1500 so an extra 150 points in models.
6:20 How do I enjoy playing warhammer? I don't. At this point I'm boycotting games workshop over the writing and the lore. I'm in the small minority or players who got so salty over the changes to the Necrons that made them into dynasties and the introduction of primaris marines that I quit the game and haven't came back since. Still a fan of the setting, but I haven't sat down to play a game with my minis in about 5 to 6 years at this point.
This year GW rereleased Rogue Trader. Why haven´t you bought it?! Those rules require less models and are more immersive then the tournament slop which James Workshop is pushing in the last decade or so. If you are not having fun with 40K then the blame lies with you because there are many alternatives in regards to rulesets. Just grab those and don´t even waste a nanosecond with modern 40k rulebooks.
I just play with my buddy, he enjoys the challenge of printing in fdm, we play for funsies. Im sorry to everyone who doesn't have a friend to play a couple games of casual 10thed with. Also New Recruit for list building and wahapedia for rules. Rules are free if you refuse to pay.
IMO, Kill Team skirmish game provides better game experience than big WH40k. Kill Team manages to capture that feeling of unit complexity without bloat. It also has alternating activations.
I paint Warhammer just to paint minis. I have never played, and I do not see myself playing anytime soon. I am not paying money for rules regardless of if I even wanted to play because this hobby is expensive enough as it is.
Ok I have never played an actual game of 40k, I've only painted like 5 minis, if 10th sucks so much could you guys recommend an edition me and my friends can play for our first games?
I like the models and the game, but it is hard not to get cynical when GW nerfs units in armies that are already underperforming. "Internal Balance" is code for "you need to buy different units for your army now." Honestly, several times this edition my army list has become illegal before I was able to get everything built and painted. At my LGS, everyone has given up on painted models and we field armies that are half grey. People take pride in their models. Nobody likes a grey army, but it can't be avoided. I am tempted to throw all my models in the garbage and walk away at this point.
There is a saying: "Do not cast your pearls before swine." Or more accurately in this case: "Do not give time to those who do not respect yours." GW does not respect your time, which is your most valuable resource. You can never get it back. Being involved in a hobby takes time, and when they DEMAND more of it, on top of the exorbitant costs they charge, well... I am not your dad to tell you what to do. But I hope more people see this for what it is, rather than for what they wish or hope it to be.
I have close friends that I cannot play warhammer with because of the rules lawyering and bickering that comes with it. I can play most any other game with them no problem. But seems this current form warhammer brings out the worst in people.
I love the narrative and casual aspects of warhammer. The issue with this is I literally only play 30k nowadays, sooo, 40k is really only just a competitive thing for me, just to dick around with two land raiders and get chicken with my friends.
My goal is no matter what I want my opponent to laugh with me at least twice. If I can do that, then I know I’m going to enjoy spending time with the opponent
A clown nose and oversized shoes will do the trick
@@Ickbard I need to be able to fake out my opponent into believing I came to the match with a battle plan that doesn’t just consist of land raider battle buss convoy
Bringing 200 termagants in a plastic bag and dumping them onto the table usually does the trick for me
I feel like a slower cycle would be healthier on so many levels. People will acclimate to the non hyper fast release schedual and get over issues of being bored pretty quickly. Especially if that extra time is used to make better thought out rules adjustments
I agree but the big issue is that GW is a publicly traded company. And thus have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders. They need a constant stream of income to keep number go up. also has the issue of getting all those new kits on shelves if all the rules dropped at the same time. I don't really play that much for most of the reasons in the video. Imo the balance dataslates are a necessary evil to keep engagement high ish. Imo they need to let the AoS games designers out of their closet to help 40k out. 4e is straight gas and the game is at the healthiest it's almost ever been. Spearhead is great, the meta is fairly tight and they only need little tweaks here and there. So we need to let the AoS and KT rules writers talk to the 40k ones to get that quality.
@@corbingovers7559 thanks capitalism
@TheDreadGazeebo yup. Unfortunately as healthy as the game could be we have to play within the rules of the gane GW is playing.
@@corbingovers7559 No. Who is forcing you to do so? There are alternatives.
Just don't hang on every word GW says, use Wahapedia for rules, make your own missions, create your your own characters. Don't play Detachments, just choose 5,6,7,8 faction stratagems to go with what ever list you want to play. There are ways around GW's poor management and lack of FUN!
this , i play sigmar 1st edition (of all ridiculous things) with own missions, a lot times OPR stuff. also 8th index and 7th 40k same thing
For me 10th has always been just a method to find new friends, and/or just throw some dice with some existing ones. It wasn’t until I played a full game of Horus heresy a few weeks ago when I found out the game itself could be, dare I say, fun.
It was honestly a culture shock going to battle round 5 of Horus heresy and still be evenly matched with my opponent on the table.
Sometimes a fun game means letting go of the competitive mindset, and that’s something that the 40k community and rule set should remember.
Heresy has been my go-to game lately. If 40k crashes and burns its where i'll live.
30k is far better because it's actually closer to the roots of what made 40k fun. Modern 40k just feels like someone took the DNA and processed it to be as inoffensive as possible.
I've been seeing more and more people returning to 2nd or 3rd edition, and it seems like a lot of players are favoring old rule sets they know aren't going to change rather than waiting around for whatever new rule sets GW decide to put out. It makes sense. You know where your army or a unit stands, you know if it's going to be viable or not, you know what to expect from how it preforms in a game, and you're not worrying if it's going to even be an option in the next edition. A lot more players seem to be looking for stability, even with imbalances, rather than hoping the next edition fixes issues that make some armies unplayable.
A 3 year core rules release cycle is Terrible…. You’re absolutely correct gives no time for the developers to properly balance the game and it gives no time for players who have their factions Codex released towards the end to have any meaningful time to play with their new rules, which should not cost $60.
GW is their own worst enemy and I think we keep feeding the monster and keep on growing larger when they are so many other cool games out there and I feel like right now nobody is having fun when 3 hours seems to be the average time it takes to play 2000 points which has driven a lot of people towards skirmish games like Kill Team, and heck even underworlds has me curious.
At this point, I’m willing to give anything a shot even crisis protocol, and I hear Corvis Bell is releasing a lot of interesting games right now. Every addition of 40 K for some reason has to be different than the prior and nobody wants to keep on relearning, especially the core rules which the company should be aiming towards making the core rules stable and to a state where your designers and developers can focus more on balancing factions, creating new models, updating ranges that haven’t been updated since 2007, it’s embarrassing that has certain factions like Eldar go this long using the models they’ve had until the recent reveal and there’s still no excuse to even have one missing Phoenix Lord, such as the one for striking scorpions. Just get them all done.
Same with dark Angels where’s Ezekiel? Where’s Samuel‘s update?
Same with Necrons. Did they really have to delete three epic heroes that have very interesting backstory’s.
And why is the silent king allowed to be in the same army list has Imotekh?
Remember, ninth edition had dynasties, and only certain characters with the proper dynasty keyword could be taken in your list ?
That’s what’s missing in 10th edition. The more special characters you have in your space marine chapter the more powerful your chapter is because GW got rid of chapter specific traits and special rules and for some reason, they thought this was a good thing because the color of your army wouldn’t matter, but they didn’t realize people are attached to their white scars or Raven guard which have nothing…
How cool would it be to play imperial fists using all space marine in Gravis armor and tanks and bolts and heavy bolters, and heavy intercessors and heavy everything!!! But no, they’re just like everybody else unless you’re playing a divergent chapter that’s stealing your detachment place style…
It feels like 10th edition is definitely catering towards trying to get new players into the game while also trying unsuccessfully to keep the players who are more satisfied with a balanced game that can be competitive and narrative, but it just feels too simple and dumb down to the point Everything feels stale…
I second checking out Corvus Belli.
A new edition of Infinity has come out, and the rules will be released online for free before christmas. They've also had a free online wiki and army maker tool for the last few editions. Just keep in mind that it's a skirmish game, so something like Kill Team or Necromunda instead of full blown 40k
With how you are whining. I know you'll be back because you're far too addicted to the grim dark.
I gave up on 40k classic and made the full switch to Kill Team... All the games have been very chill and I get to experience a huge variety of different squads. I've painted 4 Kill Teams and wouldn't go back to 40k classic. I've spent about 500$ Canadian on it.
As a note, I've played against randos at my LGS and at least once a game "I dunno if that's the way that rule works but it's too awesome to deny." moments are regular.
I ended up dropping GW and just using One Page Rules (OPR) instead because even though it might not be official, it brings back the fun to me. I just use my old GW minis and use their army builder. You can still use their minis, but it's a lot more fun with OPR.
Second this! Onepagerules Grimdark future is all I play now!
Where I'm headed with the game , Boarding Actions is the ONLY thing left holding me back to GW influence bubble
So what does OPR play like? I find it hard to get past the ridiculous renaming of some units, especially since I play drukhari
@sheaparkersp biggest one is there is no , you go then I go all at once .
It's one unit each alternating , you go I go . So elite armies can have less moves / activations
Also for the points , Armies are smaller ( which I don't like )
As a "Guard" player , in 40k at 2,000 pts I can have :
1 tank company or
3 infantry platoons or
1 1/2 infantry platoons & 1 tank platoon or
I can go on & on on this :-)
@@rodneygaul2227 I find playing 4000 point games feels the most like 40k, you get to bring all your toys at that points level. What I’ve learned is Grimdark future points levels are about double 40k values, so a 2k 40k is roughly a 4k onepagerules game. The game scales nicely just the more units/activations ur adding, the longer the games will run
I agree with everything in this video. But i also firmly believe they should just bring the forc org chart back. Itd fix a lot of the current issues the game has.
I LOVE Warhammer, but I could never think of playing 40K. Too many rules, too much time. I love Kill Team with my friends every weekend, it’s so much better to us
Its not so much of to many rules, the problem is the rules dont make sense, contradict themselves, and dont work as a table top miniatures game...
@@eskhaphey2873they make sense and they don't seem to contradict but IV only played about 24 games of 10th so I might be way off base but I just don't like how none of the army's feel unique anymore I play eldar and 10th hasent been fun because I don't want to just use fate dice and shoot from the other side of the map I like the aspect warriors and the bikes but if you go that way you just can't win or make it to turn 3 lol
@@jakegunning61 i started in 3rd edition and the rules for strathammer (8th onwards, when stratagems were implememted) have been terrible. Previously the rules didn't need clarifications, erratas, faqs, rules commentaries, or additional rules added for no reason, the core rules just worked... because they were play tested. But these days 40k isnt playtested, or proof read, or communicated between faction rules writers, which is why its all patch on patch on patch.
Ive found if you try to play 40k like a tabletop miniatures game the rules punish you. Whoever can file the most VPs the quickest by having units stand in the open at bus stop objectives, wins.
Pre 8th editions were very good tabletop miniature wargames, post strathammer arent, they are completely different games.
I'm definately more of a thematic list builder but I think a lot of people are willing to meet you kinda half way once you build that relationship of playing a few games and going "Hey man that list is really good but do we want to try something different with me?"
Me and my friend are recently getting fully into the game and hobby after I had started out collecting and painting during the height of Covid. I have to say, I really disagree that warhammer isn’t fun to play - I absolutely love the game and getting better at it every week. I totally agree that the pacing of rules releases/changes should be slowed, but I really don’t feel the sweatiness that you mention here. Maybe it’s just because I’m used to a certain level of sweat in everything that I do, but trying to win is fun for quite a lot of people - myself included. Maybe im a spoiled CSM player who has 4 viable detachments (5 with the new grotmas one), each with their own thematic slants, but I’m always able to run the units I love and have at the very least a punchers chance to win.
Would love to hear how your experience differs - maybe my scene is just full of noobs like me
I tried to play Warhammer with my friends but the rules and time took so long, then i keep playing opr , because i learn and play in a hour.
I keep painting my custodes army, at start with hope, now i took my times , because when i ended maybe two or three editions, i need to had al painted to start , or i cannot had a chance to win with the rotation of the game
I only play painted models and terrain. I also hate painting the same stuff over and over. That is 90% of the reason why I play kill team.
I’ve been in the hobby for about a year and a bit and I still haven’t ever played a game, with price increases, huge point drops, I still don’t have a 1000point army painted and I also have the thing where I refuse to play with unpainted models
I don’t care who gw sends,I am not paying for a rule book
OPR rules!
Play Trench Crusade instead. Rules are free. Use models you have, grimmer than grim background story.
At my locals, when you put your name in the discord, you either select Comp or Casual. That way no one ever gets their fun thematic list absolutely pwned by a competitive list.
I started picking up models about six or seven months ago and painting them slowly in between my other hobbies and life in general, and in that time the rules for the army, detachments, and game in general have changed so many times that I've completely detached myself from the rules, and am just painting and building models for the fun of it. Maybe I'll play when I have everything done, but as it stands now the pace of rules updates actively deters me from caring about the rules of the game.
I lost interest when they got rid of armor values and vehicle facings. They cut out a huge part of the strategic thinking aspect of the game.
Vehicles becoming wound sponges was one of the dumbest moves ever.
7:13 terminators are one of those things like Knights where people will just refuse to play.
I don’t really like knights being in regular 40K, I still got bad memories from 7th with eldar having the only Non Forgeworld Gargantuan Monstrous Creature which made it effectively unkillable by my Not Tau armies. Like I’d feed the bastard tzeentch marked chaos spawn packs to try and hold it up (spawn didn’t take up a force org chart spot back then and there wasn’t a rule of 3)
It was blatant rules to move kits stuff (like the heldrake and storm raven).
Im new to 40k and started in 9th, but every time I see someone complain that GW updates their rules too fast invalidate codexes(which is scummy) they then also ask for multiple impactful rule changes mid edition. Which clashes with their statement that they want rule set in stone.
all of that would not be a problem if rules were free, but consoomers gonna consoome and buy multiple codexes even tho they'll almost never use them
Most people are addicted to the setting. Because people asking for the rules to be free are still the first ones to buy the latest launch box and then bitch about the rules later.
There's two things nerds really hate: the way things are right now, and change.
6:40 Who are you playing HH with? In my experience, pretty every game of Heresy I've every played has been chill and enjoyable for me. Maybe a small handful were 'tougher' opponents, but I've almost always had fun, pretty casual games of HH, especially when compared to 40k where every game seems to be an uber optimised list.
Yep, because heresy is based on 7th edition 40k, which is why it is a much more enjoyable game than any recent editions of 40k
Sounds like he's just playing in a sweaty LGS. Because most HH players I played with are about the narrative. Plus he mentioned there no one being in his area to play HH so I wonder where this sweaty group came from
I don't care about the lore, modeling is a hobby. I like having painted minis more than I like painting.
I don't mind 10th. I have 7 armies.
Best edition was nr.4. play since the third edition. Ended Warhammer in the 6. edition. I tried 9.edition but I was so disappointed. To many stupid rules& those orders🙄 heard also everything you talked about. When I play, only 4.edition. It was so much fun& you never know, who‘s gonna win
I play Warhammer by building two squads of Terminators and having me and my friend pit them against hordes of enemies in Forbidden Psalm campaigns.
I’ve personally never played 40k, but my lists are always themed.
My Dread Host Custodian “Annihilatus Sodalite” is just as many Adrathic weapons possible. Aquilon Termies with Adrathic Destructors, Guards with Adrasite Spears, Contemptor-Achilles with Dual Adrathic Destructors, everything Adrathic. Because anything scarier than Volkite is cooler in my book.
Tbh this list would probably be way more fun in Horus Heresy than 40k.
I moved from 40k to 30k since all the players I’ve met or at least 90% of the HH players make flavor lists or rule of cool or like events in the HH lists and people respect that and play for fun instead of winning
At the moment i havent played anything at tabletop and just started really building up a tyranid army, So far I just really enjoy painting the minis and building an army is kinda just an after thought.
I felt that since the 8th edition. On 5/6/7 it was a mess, but it was fun, random, and the narrative was baked into the rules. Now it’s just mechanics without any of the salt.
I personally went to heresy, and it did an okay job capturing what it was before even though it’s not as fluff rules heavy as the old codexes were.
As a eldar player this sucks cause I have to play 40k or I can just not play in not a big fan of space Marines so I'm just kinda screwed lol
@@jakegunning61 i know, i play necron and eldar as well and i'm very sad
Having started playing 40k in 3rd, I've found strathammer of 8th 9th and 10th are just not fun. If you scrap secondaries and ignore the primary mission you will have loads more fun, as you will be using your units how they are intended to be used rather than only ever action monkies waiting at bus stops located in stupidly bizarre locations, because rules.
When you play warhammer like a table top miniatures war game you enjoy it, when you play the strat filing datacard based administration game you don't enjoy it.
If GW wanted missions to be fun and interactive they wouldn't be based on minor changes between objective markers. These objective markers would be scrapped and terrain features would be used instead to make them relevant. More detail on how terrain actually affects your units would add a tactical element that has been completely lost in 10th edition, since terrain only grants cover to enemy models that CAN see you and infantry basically ignore anything terrain based since solid walls can be walked through. Ruins should be tsrrain features you can embark in, if an enemy unit also embarks in the same ruin as you, you automatically count as being in base contact with all models embarked in that ruin etc. As for secondary missions, they should be faction missions. Khorne armies should get VPs for any model killed, the more blood spilled the more VPs they get. Eldar are a dying race, so want as many to survive as possible, meaning their faction mission should be based on the number of models they have remaining at the end of the game. Which then forces eldar players to play with eldar models how eldar actually are in the lore...
Sigh, you make me wistful for a future that'll never be. I'll keep looking at my 4kpts of unusable legends models.
@brycedery9596 try to get out of ghe habit of NEEEEDING to only play current 40k, just go back to a better edition when you could use your legendary legend units of legendary legendsness 😀
@@eskhaphey2873 I know I tired but no one to play with. They're are all exclusively playing league. Maybe in 18months I can play something again.
6:35 - This. All over this. I empathise with this situation far too heavily as that's been my experiance as well. I feel the most imnprtant games to ever have isn't those Tournament games, nor the games with friends but the pickup game becuase that's the frist step on the social contract to get meet more people and more gain more freinds within the hobby. I've tried in 10th to do this but i feel put off frm trying again because all I faced was netlists on non-competitive boards and nothing takes the sails out of trying to enjoy an expaeriance when your oppnent just wants the end result of the game to be the experiance. All in all I feel the caliber of person has detaeriorated in the hobby imo.
It has became abundantly clear GW is simply fiddling with the rules rather than improving on them.
Warhammer 40k being suck to play would have been forgeable if not for its horrendous pricing.
I must have got lucky, because every game I have played at my LGS has been fun, non-competitive and they've helped me out. Granted, I am 1 win to 5 losses, but they have all but one been within 20 points. I started a couple months ago.
I havent really enjoyed a game of 40k since 5th edition. Painting and collecting is my main focus amd rapidly becoming my main focus. Changes in my life over the last two decades (family, relationships, career etc) is also a big part of this but I also cant keep up with the ever changing landscape of 40k- and all this on top of some very creaky old fashioned rules.
Its all made me nostalgic for 2nd ed, which was my first edition, and interested in other games including many nonGW things. But even then i rarely get a chance to actually play a game nowadays.
So far playing Warhammer has been fun to do for me. What hasn’t been fun is trying to keep up with all the rules changes and reworks.
Reminds me of what happened to magic. It went from a creative fun game to buy these cards or lose every game.
0:57 - Easy there Slaanesh.
I already sold my soul to the Chaos God of Algorithms.
Get in line.
Wait your turn.
5:29 Or Necrons.
Awakened Dynasty is a good all rounder, Canoptek Court, while scaled back is fine, and Hypercrypt is powerful.
Necrons Stay Winning.
Only gotten into playing competitive this year and it's taken over my life. I spend literally any free time I have painting and this year I've painted up 3 whole armies. I also spend so much time trying to learn the tabletop and get better yet I still lose pretty much every game I play. This year I've gone 6W 18L 1D recently went 0-3 at my first RTT and are currently 0-2 in my local league.
People can say "it's not all about winning" or "at least you had fun right?" And the thing is no it's fucking pissing me off losing all the time and although I dont ever take it out on my opponent I'm in a sour mood for a good day or so after losing AGAIN even after all my hard work to improve. This being said, I can't turn back. I've invested too much time and money to stop and simply hobbying without playing seems pointless to me so I'll keep plugging away and maybe one day things will improve.
P.S fuck custodes to death 🙂 xx
I've been trying to put together a 100% kitbashed Emperor's Children army since 8th edition. It's my first and only army, and I have to say the experience has been infuriating. Finding out every couple of months that every unit in my army is unplayable for one reason or another makes me want to pull my hair out.
I was sold this game by the grognards that once you bought a model, you could always field it. Hell when I bought the 8th edition rulebook, the GW employee said the exact same thing to me. Between the shit state of the game, constant prices hikes, and insufferable politics - I'm pretty done with 40k. I'm just going finish kitbashing my army and then throw it on a shelf to collect dust for all eternity.
Loved that you mentioned OPR as that's been my go to game. I use OPR's rules but play in the 40K setting.
Its quite envigorated my hobby time, but I get that the system isn't for everyone. But its been perfect for me.
I used to mainly play AOS and liked the index period but now the codex creep has arrived. Spearhead looks good though.
I quit when 6th went to 7th edition. I play Tyranids with the 5th edition codex which was decent but lacked a lot of things. Then the 6th edition codex came out with the new psychology rules and the new Tyranid artifacts and the massive nerfs to most units. But right around that time two other codexes had come out, Orcs and Dark Angles, which were also pretty weak codexes compared to much of 6th edition. So the people I was playing with thought that tuning down codexes was going to be the pattern for GW and I grit my teeth and kept playing. Then out came the new Ultramarine codex, with their shiney new Formations rules. And then the Eldar codex with their Formation rules. And these just a few months after the Tyranid codex with no formation rules. Then out came 7th edition which made the Tyranid psychic powers even worse and made the new "Shadows in the Warp" ability non-functioning. So it was obviously written with the 6th edition rules in mind, only a few months before the release of 7th edition, all the while GW was making SM and Eldar even more dominant. And Formations rules for Tyranids. Sure, sure. Just shell out $15 dollars for a digital set of rules that amounted to 3 paragraphs plus two and a half pages of fluff text. This on top of the faster game cycle and GW deciding that codexes should be hard covers when the codexes would only be useful for 3 years max, killed the game for me. I put my toys away and am happily spending my money elsewhere.
I just prefer OPR, like I occasionally look at the meta side of 40k, and it's always one army stomping while 3 haven't even gotten their codex yet, meanwhile if there's a single thing I don't like about an OPR army book, I can use a fan army book or pay $5 to make my own
TLDR; I just hate that GW runs everything like a smaller company, messy, with minimal resources, while being the face of tabletop wargaming, then simultaneously acts like their shit don't stink
And yet most people won't give smaller companies the time of day because they expect GW resources and content output
I think it was around 8th ed, where a lot of housekeeping with stratagems and objectives became a bit overbearing, and then put on cards you have to buy, therefore charging you for the privilege of having more things to keep track of. 10th is just the end of that path of over monetising over complication. While GW make some amazing minis, it still just feels like a thinly veiled cash grab.
Strathammer was indeed the beginning of crappy rules and poor table top designs
i dont play at all, i dont want to spend the money on a full army
i dont want to paint repeats of units
i dont have space to store a full army
i dont have anyone near me to play with
i just paint what things i find cool
Combat Patrol theoreticaly would work for most of your points. If it would work as a format.
Yup that's the problem it doesn't work and some of the combat patrols are one sided. I hear sigmar spearhead is a lot more balanced though.
@@daedalus5253 fair, doesnt solve transport and finding someone to paly with
@@Handi_Crafts AoS has interesting units, but im not interested enough for a full spearhead
i might buy a few skaven one day, but for now i dont need more grey plastic/resin
@@kris220b there at least will be less to transport.
I dunno, i am SW, and i wait a 10th SW codex for already how many time? Editions longer, releases inside edition faster, balance each 3-4 months. And turn back to 9th rules complexity, i believe if all current balancing efforts where poured on 9th, we'l be playing a better game now.
I feel I've entered this hobby in a dark age. I remember the 1st time I walked into my local warhammer store. I scoffed at it and the idea of building, painting and buying literal plastic man. Fast forward to the release of space Marine 2 and after playing it and diving into the lore of the universe coming to appreciate the series way more. So much so that I started an ultramarine army. After the intro set I can't believe what fans put up with in this franchise. Don't get me wrong I'm enjoying painting building and hopefully soon to enjoy a game of 10th I've only played two games of 8th. However the amount of pure 💩 you need buy to get "started" is insane. Codex rulebook dice tape measure hobby tools the units themselves and more cause you didn't know you needed cards for objectives or terrain so you don't have to play with make believe walls or cardboard. It's pure insanity! Not to mention that GW can thanos snap stuff away at a moments notice even though you paid money for said unit because it was cool and was a good fit for your army, but balancing comes and nerfs it. As a fan base y'all should rally so that GW gets its act together with all the annoying purchase hurdles it throws your way and other problems that I wouldn't know about cause I'm just a newbie.
Everytime I just look at the endless rules and shit I'd have to memorize I just walk away, I tried 10th, went to a tournament and hated it so much I stopped playing (though I have not been super active in 40k since the end of 5th, the magic seemed to end and everytime I went back to it, things had gotten worse and everytime I try to go back everything is different in the same edition)
You can't buy the books because they become obsolete in a month. I don't like apps and such I want a book of some kind.
I've stopped playing since 8th Edition. My issue with GW and how they do their game rules is:
1. The game is heading towards a more competitive format. There is nothing inherently wrong with that however GW's desire to create unbalanced or overpowered units and codexes for-profit is a conflict of interest with making a balanced competitive game.
2. The game is a waste of time and resources to me. After I spend money and hours painting my Army, It takes me maybe 30 minutes to an hour to drive to a location and set up the board, only for me or my opponent to start losing turn 2 and now we have to sit there for another 2 hours and one of us is not going to have fun. This might be worth it, if it wasn't for the fact that when you take time to learn your army and you get really good at it all of a sudden The Meta changes and the rules change and now you have to start all over. It's just an overall waste of time.
3. There's better alternative games that avoid these issues. GW it's just a part of the war gaming Hobby. I can use my GW miniatures for any game I want. Currently, I've been using them for one page rules or older editions of Warhammer. This may have its problems, but it's a peaceful life compared to GW's current games.
I still love the models, love the setting and I do like 10th edition if it's just me and a chill opponent wanting to kill an afternoon. It's the ever changing rules and constant bloat that cause me to run into a gotcha moment or rules argument with try hard that as of this time, made me just walk away from the tournaments. It's becoming the reason that I quit Magic so many years go. Some of my games would be Me: "My Thunderwolf cavalry is 2 inches away from those cultists and it's the charge phase, here we go. " Opponent" "before you roll, I play strategem A on unit B and because they are in detachment C and 18 inches from character C and they have warlord trait D, your'e Thunderwolves are -15 to charage, -15 to hit-20 ti wound and they take 100 mortal wounds."
I don't play, I don't even play necromunda and I am collecting one of every gang. I see no reason to play right now, because I think gw has chosen to balance around competitive rather than narrative and because they don't know how to balance nor care to really
Also gw continuously nukes their links so a lot of older content is missing that would have been really cool. Want to kitbash some zoats? you could! with full stats and everything. I wish they'd bring that back.
This has been my experience with 40k post 6-7th edition. Just a completely different game I have no interest in playing, but I still enjoy collecting and painting some ork boyz!
Besides wanting editions to last longer than 3 years, what changes would make you enjoy the game more or actually make you want to play?
less rules bloat, focus on actually balancing factions instead of the rotating seal clubbing we have now, and GWs constant push for competitive. The custodes index they released today is probably my favorite out of all the new ones so far unless knights surprise me tomorrow. GW needs to go back to making stuff fluffy but actually viable for even casual play.
Warhammer has always been an excuse for me to kitbash monstrosities against god and throw them at my friends from across the battlefield as we shoot the shit. Needless to say we don’t play the actual game anymore but proxy models with other systems/games that we play while still making affronts to god on the table.
Oh it sucks for most people. That is why I play OPR now, I am having fun again.
I drive 45 minutes each way to play 40k. I'm currently 0-6 in the Crusade games, and I don't regret the drives. If I *expect* to lose, I may as well try anyway.
what army you play?
@@Sybok51288 Right now I'm playing Salamanders. Through 4 crusades and 4 armies, I've never had more than a 33% win rate. (including Aeldari at the start of the edition.)
I highly suspect that the more accessible 40k becomes (which it is judging by Space Marine 2 and the glut of TH-cam content these days!) then I foresee GW eventually back peddling away from the competitive focus and onto something more 'casual friendly'. However, I also suspect this pivot will still incentivize buying more models consistently, perhaps with more 'themed' armies and detachment rules.
Think of it more like MtG blocks or sets. They obviously want that kind of lucrative cash flow and brand recognition.
There are much better games around that have more friendly metas and even tighter competitive rules. My love for GW died with 5th ed and im much happier playing other games and laughing while seeing the salt drip off the 40k players on the next tables.
Completely agree. It's become such a pain to enjoy, though I am really enjoying the stripped down Combat Patrol mode
+1 though for nobody wanting to have fun... its all meta everything, which isn't even remotely fun
I just got into warhammer with 10th edition so I never saw the "better days" of earlier editions. I get a lot of these gripes tho. My local shop that specialized in tabletop wargames closed, still have the typical game store but warhammer is pretty much dead around me, I have a small group of 6ish people to play so we're starting a crusade in january. Thankfully my armies have won the good and playable lottery (sisters, votann, death guard). Fingers crossed they change how they do detachments in 11th edition cause this is ridiculous having to wait 2+ years for a codex that is out of date on launch, plus the fact that once a codex comes out it locks the models in that army in allied units so my deathguard army is gonna have to change once the chaos knights codex cause I got 2 war dogs in there for that sweet sweet melta ap -6 (essentially)
Pretending that the game is is there to be fun and not to sell plastic will always leave you sad
I only play Warhammer 30k. I really like the rules and there's a massive group in Dallas that's all about the narrative so I haven't ran into a whole lot of sweat barring one guy who wanted to show us how broken blood angels can be because we talked shit. I just think the rules are simpler and easier to follow along with they also have more depth to them and I don't have to worry about it updates dropping out of GW's ass every 3 seconds.
For me the sweat is the fun
Yeah, paying 40€ (almost 50€ now) for a book that will be obsolete in 3 years was already a moodkiller for me. The fact that i started in v4 and that the game completely changed didn't helped. Going back to Lord of the Rings was a bliss but... GW decided to get back to it too!
Imagine getting the 3rd book in an edition and then getting the last book in the next edition only to find out your book is going to be worthless in 3 months.
I’ve personally never played 40k, but my lists are always themed.
My Dread Host Custodian “Annihilatus Sodalite” is just as many Adrathic weapons possible. Aquilon Termies with Adrathic Destructors, Guards with Adrasite Spears, Contemptor-Achilles with Dual Adrathic Destructors, everything Adrathic (with the exception of my Shield Captain whose forced to have a Pyrithite Spear and can’t carry Adrasite). Because anything scarier than Volkite is cooler in my book.
For me I usually just play with my friends(even if they table me cuz they play local tournaments), also your Coustodies Kitten mini looks amazing dude, nice job on that. And one more thing, what combo of paint did you use on Azrael's armor? Im trying to get my ICC ike that.
I used the same recipe GW posted for the lion when he was first released
I only comment so I aint getting hurt
the youtube alg has been feeding me videos about warhammer and the gaming aspect of it
i’ve been playing 40k since 5th edition and since 7th edition it’s been mostly horus heresy. i’m unlucky because most of my friend group placed a large emphasis on the game aspect of the hobby and we would play at a decently high competitive level and that’s why i can say with confidence that 40k has never been a good or fun system. it is incredibly easy to abuse or break and due to the high time and money investment when a game becomes one sided its a terrible feeling. plus the meta shifts so much as it says at the end. i used to love those ITC guys, i even got a chance to meet them and play on their stream when they were in san diego just before they got directly involved in playtesting, but i agree that their legacy has been a net negative
the way i personally play 40k has changed. i went away to college just before the pandemic hit (rip) and since then i haven’t been in the same town as my friends and due to various circumstances i never sought a TTG group. i played with my buddies on TTS and completely shorn of the hobby and in person social aspects, the truth that 40k actually fucking sucks was laid bare for me and i was turned off the hobby for a while. but ive been getting back into it recently. i’ve been leveling up my hobby with new techniques and i not only found a good LGS to play at with a great horus heresy community, but a friend of my mom asked me to mentor her son in the hobby and we had our first meeting the other day and it was really fu to be in that position. at that meeting i had him spectate/play with his 1 unit of khorne hounds/roll my dice in a game of HH. in that game i got absolutely smashed, but it was weird because unlike a few years ago…. i didn’t care? i was fielding 4 separate freshly painted units and it felt bad seeing them die without accomplishing much but i just sorta shrugged my shoulders and said to myself it doesn’t matter, the actual game itself was such a small percentage of the time i spent doing this and my opponent was fun and gracious so it felt okay. i don’t go into games expecting to lose or engineer it that way but i think its an attitude thing, you need to let go and enter this nirvanah state and take your enjoyment from everything that led up to the game and the interaction that happens around it. having fun playing this shittiky written game system that has high RNG to boot, WITHOUT staking it all on whether you win or not, requires a shift in perspective and a high level of maturity
all that being said, it does feel good to win, and if feels good to have a close fought nail biter of a match, but that requires either a lot of luck or clear communication and transparency or familiarity with your opponent, which is hard to get in a tournament setting where you are matched against strangers under a time crunch.
my thoughts exactly. I've given up on playing it, love painting models though. I'm more into Mordheim these days
I feel like this should be a time for peopek actually play a different game that isnt related to Warhammer in any way. So many people whine and complain about the current edition but they never vother to expand their horizons. So many people are just stucking playing ine game because of social pressure.
I play now only Fluffy and FUN WARHAMMER 40k... and I will put them up as VIDEOS!
And 3 Print what is to expensive to buy!
Completely agree about how an Edition’s cycle should be structured and that it should be longer. The way shit is run rn is asinine tbh
I get it. I only play 10th Ed from a stilmania mindset: leman Russ company with attached scout sentinel squadron. That is all. I did magnetize everything, though
3rd edition every rule for every army fit in to the rulebook. It's all you needed to play. They released Codex as lore and special rules books and every one was worth owning for the art and lore. New content is such pooped out slop. It's just sad watching 40K fail to love their lore and tabletop. They only love money now.
I have never played 40k. There is one store that has 40k events on the really bad side of town. It's only pick up games.
A crusade style game with thematic list sounds like everything I want (with points not the power level thing).
But everyone that would play 40k with me is across the country or on an island.
Then there is the codex problem, where you are just better off waiting for the updates in a 3rd party app then buying a book.
So, I am left with printing what I want and trying to keep it mostly inline to fix later.
To sit on a shelf. Forever.
Best video you've made. I agree with what you're saying.. on basically all of it
I mean, it’s why I only do 3d printing and recasts, cause I have no reason to support GW, if I could have even afforded the current model prices.
Battletech
i think we can have a bit of hope because of how aos 4 is being handled right now. rules changes are a lot more concise. theres a heavier emphasis on fun and spearhead is goate
I literally never play competitive I just have fun with people and have our little plastic minis beat each other up in the theatre of the mind
It sucks too when you don't get to play often (at most once every 3 months) and you've got people that play once or twice a week who will crush you in games and still look at you like you're trying to cheat when you mess up a rule (or order of said rules) because your brain is designed to prioritize remembering things for your job you're at 6 days a week instead of whatever 74th errata that's come out since you last played. I'm at the point now I don't even attempt to schedule a game even when I get a day off because I know I'm not going to score anything, whatever I learn that day will be forgotten by the next game, and my opponent is going to touch my models without asking permission once or twice leading me to nearly have a nuclear meltdown in my LGS. In other words, I'm glad I like building and painting because f'ck this game and f'ck all these sweaty neckbeards that play.
In my area we had 14 players of 40K. But they are into perpetual league play, to the point they don't have the time or will to do anything but that. 9th was a bad edition for me as these ppl didn't know how to use trees, walls, fortifications, only ruins. So I was perpetually explaining how to play on my tables. Now, 10th killed 40K for me, stand on 5 circles of dirt for 5 turns? mandatory terrain setups? (vomits in mouth). I have a large terrain collection that I cannot use and my favorite armies are/were crippled beyond use. I couldn't talk about the specifics of the rules anymore as they change too fast, for arbitrary reasons, for me to care to keep up. I played 3 games and bailed on the entire thing. I would play OPR if anyone cared to try but considering they wont even play a narrative game, that'll be an even harder sell. It's a deck building game now married to a FOMO/Live Service delivery method. I miss when it was a WAR game instead of a war GAME. Simulation of real world situation is a large motivator for engagement. Mostly I miss having a hobby.
Magic is relatively cheap and much more compact. Also has a casual/competitive divide, but with so many players and decks you probably can have years of fun for less than 100 euro. Magic Arena is free to play and learn the game, but you can probably borrow a deck and learn at a local gaming store. (Where they probably mostly play the Commander format, which makes games more random with 100 instead of 60 card decks that allow 4x of the same spell, and longer with 40 instead of 20 life points. A casual 2 player game of Commander takes half an hour.)
@@CTimmerman If I was interested in a deck building game I'd be playing that already though. The shift in 40K to that direction has helped turn me off from it, sadly. I'm into war games as a simulation; like escort missions, ambushes on MVPs, discovering hidden outposts, endless waves of 6 turn holdout, etc.
@@brycedery9596 Sounds like Call of Duty, Fallout 76, Helldivers 2, or custom rules that should be in 40k already. Replace a "bus stop" objective marker with a VIP (what did you mean by MVP?) and protect/carry/bring back to base/objective/deployment zone unharmed. Kill Team has a co-op mode.
The main problem with this analysis is that 40k and GW products overall are more popular than ever, a trend that kind of took off during 9th. While the newer direction may not be to the liking of more hobby driven people and older players, to say that this new direction is going to lead to the downfall of 40k is hyperbolic.
Its kinda wild that my group doesnt like me playing Custodes because I keep winning by a huge amount with them but I dont even run meta lists. I do love my Wardens and have since 8th edition. So I run often 2 squads. One with blade and other with Shield cap and then a bunch of other silly things and still I'm not allowed to play my fav faction I clearly love for more than just rules.
@@dilbob454 had a similar experience with my group whenever I used grey knights in 9th,hopefully you’ll find people whodon’t get butt hurt about losing and want you to change just so they can win instead of adapting to an army they know they play against regularly
@@HighMarshalHelbrecht0 Yeah I hope so too but its a massive shame because these are rather close friends. Its just tiring being complained at all the time and now some don't even want games against me, regardless if I play custodes or not.
You're the reason Warhammer sucks. Because people like this just like to cheese and then act surprised when your cheap list is called cheap
@@noblegalifreyan4551 Right ok, and your not a problem? Fabricating something up in your mind and pushing it as fact?
@@dilbob454 I'm not the one who uses the wrong You're when trying to deflect back your decisions.
When you want to play a game look up the current win percentage ladder for your opponents army and yours. Example: Aeldari 55%, Chaos 45% that's 10% difference so in a 1500 point game Chaos would start with 10% more of 1500 so an extra 150 points in models.
6:20 How do I enjoy playing warhammer? I don't. At this point I'm boycotting games workshop over the writing and the lore.
I'm in the small minority or players who got so salty over the changes to the Necrons that made them into dynasties and the introduction of primaris marines that I quit the game and haven't came back since.
Still a fan of the setting, but I haven't sat down to play a game with my minis in about 5 to 6 years at this point.
This year GW rereleased Rogue Trader. Why haven´t you bought it?! Those rules require less models and are more immersive then the tournament slop which James Workshop is pushing in the last decade or so. If you are not having fun with 40K then the blame lies with you because there are many alternatives in regards to rulesets. Just grab those and don´t even waste a nanosecond with modern 40k rulebooks.
You should play AOS: Spearhead. Cool models, quick game and less feels bad moments. I will never go back to 40k now Spearhead exists.
I just play with my buddy, he enjoys the challenge of printing in fdm, we play for funsies. Im sorry to everyone who doesn't have a friend to play a couple games of casual 10thed with.
Also New Recruit for list building and wahapedia for rules. Rules are free if you refuse to pay.
IMO, Kill Team skirmish game provides better game experience than big WH40k. Kill Team manages to capture that feeling of unit complexity without bloat. It also has alternating activations.
3:24 you mean how custodes is always played. though i might just have faced jerks
Before codex lists had a bit more variety in unit choice.
I play Kill Team. That's how I interact with Warhammer
I paint Warhammer just to paint minis. I have never played, and I do not see myself playing anytime soon. I am not paying money for rules regardless of if I even wanted to play because this hobby is expensive enough as it is.
Ok I have never played an actual game of 40k, I've only painted like 5 minis, if 10th sucks so much could you guys recommend an edition me and my friends can play for our first games?
Fully painted WYSIWYG master race coming through.
I like the models and the game, but it is hard not to get cynical when GW nerfs units in armies that are already underperforming. "Internal Balance" is code for "you need to buy different units for your army now." Honestly, several times this edition my army list has become illegal before I was able to get everything built and painted. At my LGS, everyone has given up on painted models and we field armies that are half grey. People take pride in their models. Nobody likes a grey army, but it can't be avoided. I am tempted to throw all my models in the garbage and walk away at this point.
There is a saying: "Do not cast your pearls before swine." Or more accurately in this case: "Do not give time to those who do not respect yours."
GW does not respect your time, which is your most valuable resource. You can never get it back.
Being involved in a hobby takes time, and when they DEMAND more of it, on top of the exorbitant costs they charge, well... I am not your dad to tell you what to do. But I hope more people see this for what it is, rather than for what they wish or hope it to be.
I have close friends that I cannot play warhammer with because of the rules lawyering and bickering that comes with it. I can play most any other game with them no problem. But seems this current form warhammer brings out the worst in people.
Did anyone else catch the moon @ 9:00?
I love the narrative and casual aspects of warhammer. The issue with this is I literally only play 30k nowadays, sooo, 40k is really only just a competitive thing for me, just to dick around with two land raiders and get chicken with my friends.
Yeah, 40ks current narrative support is trash