Ballistic Testing my MOST Recommended .38 Special SNUB Nose Load
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ค. 2023
- I get the question "what is the best .38 Special ammo for a snub nose revolver" almost daily. I am showing what I have always thought that ammo is, and doing a ballistic with it VS something different.
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After about the 4th, 5th, 6th comment that is the same comment of "Your gun is junk, not the ammo with the light primer strike", I feel the need to respond. And my response is this - While I don't think Taurus is the best gun out there, I have owned this revolver and been shooting it regularly since 2019 and I do not recall ever having a misfire in it up until this video. After I filmed this video a couple weeks ago I been shooting it more I also have not had a misfire in it.
And why would I? I keep getting comments about strain screws and the like....IT'S A TAURUS SMALL FRAME, it doesn't use a strain screw. It is coil spring to hammer to transfer bar to firing pin. It's a very reliable revolver. Just stop embarrassing yourselves with the "it's your gun" comments because it makes you look stupid. There's nothing mechanically there that could cause a light strike and even if this were somehow the cause, the gun not firing just two Hornady rounds with zero issues with the Gold Dot would be a statistical unlikelihood.
I suspect you hit an extremely unlikely case where the primers were not completely seated. The first strike finished seating them and the second detonated them. This is of course strictly wild guessing. It is my understanding that ammunition manufacturers are running 24x7 to keep up with demand. Primers are the most sensitive component for error. And the hardest to get. Given the random nature of such things, you may not have this happen again for a hundred years. Or it could happen tomorrow. And you might not be able to tell by eye ahead of time if the primer is fully seated as the tolerances are in thousandths of an inch, as you know.
What makes matters worse is that I think I did fire them after the fact in single action as where the duds were in double action. There's just that tiny bit more hammer travel and force in single action. It's possible that the average TH-camr would have never had an issue (cock gun every shot, shoot, break grip cock with strong hand lol). I would bet that single action could finish seating them and set them off at the same time.
@@GunSam I can't discount that as a possible reason why the rounds fired on re-strike. Given that the S&W 642/442 are DAO, just pulling the trigger again would have been your only option. And I suspect that among J-Frame size revolvers, those Airlights are about as popular as snub nose 38s get. The same principle would apply. A highly stressed shooter might cycle through a bit before realizing it's time to do a reload.
IIRC, Bernhard Goetz fired at least four shots before getting out of Dodge (NYC). It's kind of difficult to say things came out in his favor. But he did survive.
@Fudmottin Taking time out to salute Mr Goetz. "You don't look so bad, here's another..."
@@randyduncan795 That was not my point.
If you want a point, NYC does not recognize your right to self defense.
I like this guy. Keeping it real and simple. No BS. Right up front. Very believable. 👍
Gunsam and Paul Harrell are my two favorite TH-camrs and more or less, the only reason I am on here anymore.
@@scottphipps3577 both legit! sniff around Scott. There’s other very good content, but be prepared to do some filtering. 🍻✌️
I get the feeling he is a independant thinking no agenda no bs guy honest and upright, the world needs more people like this! 👍
Lightly loaded hard cast semiwadcutters for me. Penetration is the most important factor for handgun wounding by far. I try to tune my loads to penetrate 16 inches into gel. I also seal my loads front and back so they can be carried for a long time before needing to be shot and replaced.
I’m right there with ya regarding the wad cutter ammo. I use the 130grain +P Wad cutter by federal
Dum
Ralph Friedman was NYPD’s Most Decorative Detective of the 70′-80’s. During his career he made over 2,000 arrests. He said surviving a gunfight is about shot placement, not throwing numerous rounds at a target and hoping a few hit their mark. Training is the key, not necessarily large-capacity magazine. His rule, carry enough gun. On many occasions that was a 5 shot 38 Special snub nose revolver. Back then they didn't have the selection of ammo we have today. Bad guys today are not any tougher or harder to kill than they were back then. The best ammo available for police work was the 158 grain FBI load with solid lead bullets. He won every shootout and lived to retire. I doubt very much if ANY self defense shooting is more dangerous than what he went through. Most gunfights, police and self defense, end in 5 shots or less. Today's ammo is better but the 158 grain FBI load is just as effective today as it was back then, even though it doesn't expand.
MORE AMMO leads most people, including police and the military, to resort to "Spray and Pray" rather than aimed shots. MISSES count for very little and even then it ONLY counts if it scares the criminal into running away. If you MUST stop the bad guy ONLY HITS COUNT. One aimed shot that hits a vital area will do more good than "Spray and Pray" shooting will. 15 and 17 round pistols give many shooters a FALSE sense that "Accurate shooting isn't as important as a lot of fast shots". More ammo is better but only if you hit your target.
The greatest and most successful lawmen and criminals in history were those who were NOT always the fastest shots but the ones who were able to keep their cool and deliver accurate shots. A common core that they all share in their survival stories - that is to be very decisive and not hesitate when it was time to pull the trigger. Some were fast AND accurate like "Wild Bill" Hickok and Bill Jordan. Others were men and women like Bonny and Clyde, Wyatt Earp, Bill Tilghman, Frank and Jessie James, John Wesley Harding (who was ambushed by a posse and won the shootout because he was able to keep his cool and aim his shots while the 9 men in the posse shot fast and wild, missing him completely), John Dillinger, "Bat" Masterson, and John Henry "Doc" Holliday.
I've heard and researched to find very similar advice through the years. Your observations are about spot on.
Solid rant...
SWC 158gr lead all day 👶
Very sage and solid advice. For whomever has the sense to take it.
As my D.I. always said "Aimed fire!"
I still use the 158 grain lead round nose ammo. It worked for my Grandfather who was a Cop. It's also usually cheaper than most of the expanding rounds. The thickness of clothing has little effect against lead round nose ammo as opposed to expanding rounds.My Dad who was a WW2 and Korean War vet taught me that shot placement is the key to surviving a gunfight.
Of the two I would take the Gold dot. In a lot of the testing I've seen the plastic tip rounds seem pretty fickle. But honestly my inclination is to stick with lead WC or SWC rounds. You get reliable penetration and the flat meplat gives good damage without having to depend on expansion.
my thought exactly.
Agree
I currently own a NIB S&W J frame Bodyguard .38spl . In short, I'd say the Speer Gold Dot 135gr +P JHP. This ammunition was R&Ded with the NYPD. 2000s. I also like the 110gr +P DPX, Critical Defense 110gr. Older frangible. 38 rounds like Magsafe SWAT or Glaser Silver slugs are + but they cost a lot. I carry Golden Saber 125gr +P. I could not see any 135gr Gold Dot.
A flat nose lead bullet tends to create a large permanent wound cavity upon entry. The shock factor, often ends the fight quickly, rather than depending on hitting a vital organ. That is part of the reasoning behind the .45acp round. The idea of making someone absolutely not want to get shot twice.
Thank you for all of your testing.
Excellent video testing, Thank you Sir!
From Mike
I've been watching your channel for a while now.
I appreciate your consistency in testing at your range. Velocities. Accuracy. Gel tests with and without ply. I know you're helping alot of fans to make responsible and practical decisions about what to expect or not from firearms available today. Good work. Thanks...
Interesting results. Thank you for perspective and demonstration.
the 135gr Speer Gold Dot load you briefly mentioned was designed to work properly from snub nose revolvers, hence it is labeled amongst their short barrel family of offerings; NYPD asked Speer for this load to use in their issued & spproved list of snub nosed revolvers prior to switching to 9mm semiautos exclusively
That's the load my wife and I use. Water jug and meat target show it to be 100% reliable at penetration and expansion from 2 different snubbies
Unfortunately, the gold dot short barrel round is currently impossible to find, even online.
Best defense concept ever: breaking contact.
GS. Good video. I appreciate your experience over the long haul when discussing these various ammos. Thanks for sharing and take care.
Thank you, take care.
I like your revolver content & your consistent method
Many have derided a .38 for being inadequate but that runs contrary to my OIS experience on the street. The round you’re featuring is what I carry in my 340PD b/c it’s easy to handle in a 12 ounce J Frame. Thx for another instructive presentation Sam.
I have really come to like your honest content. Keep it up!
Thanks! I appreciate your videos. Surprising issues with the Hornady.
Thank you for another interesting and informative video
Good explaination of expansion. Useful.
Every time i watch a video of a round vs another round they always produce difference results. Damn!
The solid copper Barnes bullet in Buffalo Bore even in standard pressure does great. Good penetration and great expansion.
Again very straightforward solid information, appreciate the directness in the comments.
Much appreciated!
My grandfather carried the Winchester 158 lswc hp +p as his duty load. Cor-bon or Buffalo bore make good versions. I personally carry the Buffalo Bore version in my M10 Smith.
Was it a Heay barrel S&W M10?
Underwood has some good ones similar to the Buffalo Bore also.
@@johnfeliciano585 mine is a heavy barrel M10-14, my grandfather carried a M15-2 combat masterpiece.
Yeah great rounds but in a ultra light snubbie they are pretty snappy to shoot.
It would be nice to see a video on the Winchester pdx1 130 grain 38 special plus p! Great informative video! Thank you.
Love this channel. Either one of these rounds is fine, as is the swchp, as is a full wadcutter. Pick what you like. Shot placement rules above all and always will. Pick a decent round and hit them right. Same goes for hunting rounds. No need to split hairs to this degree IMO!
Love you videos, u keep it normal and real
I feel like the remington golden saber is often overlooked but a lot of the ballistics test I've seen show great results with the 125 gr +p
Many of the original Golden Saber bullets were pretty good. Though with the switch to bonded bullets, the results are less impressive lately.
In 2023, I load Remington GS 125gr +P .38spl in my snub M&P Bodyguard revolver. It has decent ballistics. Well made.
fantastic video Sam
Thank you
Any .38 Special load to the skull will work. But yeah, Critical Defense is pretty darn reliable in a torso.
Nope.
@@robwilson3749feel free to elaborate.
I am interested in the +p critical defense of the idea of the polymer keeping it from getting clogged with clothing. but I've seen 9mm critical defense working as an fmj
I don't own a .38 Special only revolver and I always shoot .357 mag through my guns but I found this video informative as usual. Thanks!
Thanks for the intelligent data-driven comparison.
I still loved the results of the +p buffalo bores and I'm not sure I want to change ammo at this time. I do have some XTP rounds in box too. They were accurate as hell! But I want more power I think. I feel that under stress I won't notice much difference at shorter distances and I want to leave the biggest OUCH I can from my taurus 856
★ Thanks. Appreciate your work!
Excellent synopsis at the beginning! (But regarding the bullet weights, Buffalo Bore and Underwood both load 158 grain rounds that expand magnificently from a snub-nose, they just have unmanageable recoil from a light carry gun--all of which our host knows as well as I do.)
Thanks
Great video Sir
Thankyou for proving once again what an important resource you are to the shooting community! Your work is SO detailed and well researched, and SO well explained that everyone from beginners to experts benefit from it. Seriously, be proud of your art! (also you don't wave flags around to prove what a great Patriot you are, and you don't shout "YAOW'ALLLLL" every sentence).............................elsullo
Thanks. I am one of the few gun guys not from Tennessee and Kentucky lol. Another guy here in MI not far from me is "The Firearms Guy" "HEY THERE FRIENDS" lol
I like the The Firearms Guy’s videos.
Really like his “limp wrist test”.
When I saw him do that, I accused him of copying my normal shooting style, heh heh.
The guy who's accent you made fun of does some of the best ammo testing on YT. I like this channel quite a bit, great work with revolvers which is why I watch. But to dismiss the other guy because of his accent? JSMH.
Great video. What's got me really interested in light and fast vs slow and heavy is Mr GunsNGear posted a disturbing video on twitter. A very large man assaulted a much smaller person. He had the guy against a car with the door open, effectively pinning him. So he slammed the little guy who then went to draw from an appendix style holster. The big guy tried to crush the little guy with the door, but the little guy managed to get shots off and break contact. Depending on camera angle, he either fired five or seven rounds. I don't know what he had. But he prevailed. As you can imagine, when you have only five, you want them to work. I think some of the shots were superfluous, but that's a tough call.
My take away from that particular incident was that you need each round to be doing real damage to force a break in contact. The big guy was more than large enough to kill the little guy bare handed.
I'm no street fighter. If I can't avoid the situation, I really need the "get off me" power. And I want it to work sooner rather than later.
Thanks. Yeah I opened that thing you sent. Looked like probably a 9mm or whatever.
Here and there you here of those exceptions. There is also a story about a cop who had a gun fight with someone which he hit 5 times with 45 ACP and he was still shooting back. He even hit vital organs. That last shot that took him down was actually a head shot.
@@nicholasroberts9618 Its not the caliber! I have read from a leo that he did know another cop who was killed in a gun fight. He had a 4 inch revolver and fired all his 6 shots into the chest at close range but the thug was still able to shot back and run away. Sometimes I think firearms are a bit overrated.
@@nicholasroberts9618 It was .357 Mag. The 45 ACP story is well documented search for "Sergeant Timothy Gramins" You also can find some interviews about stopping power with old reputable cops. I also can remeber another one where somebody was hit in the chest by a 44 Mag still able to run away but collapsed afte 1-2 miles but also survived. There are some statistics that show that there are no significant differences in one shot stops from handgun calibers from 380 acp up to 357 mag. Al I say was that there isnt a magical caliber you can rely on. And you actually confirmed that. ( those rounds were stopped by a Carhart Duck Quill work jacket. I dont belive you. This is BS²)
@@nicholasroberts9618 Now you talk about bullet design not caliber! And obviously bullet design can make a difference.
What I have seen in various tests is the Critical Defense loads expand consistently. The polymer tip prevents clogging.
Really nice test,I would like you try some cast bullets in the 38,and the 357,I think it would be interesting thanks good test
Your test of Buffalo Bore FBI load equivalents show they are also good candidates for best defense load.
Filmed 7-1-23
I also think for normal self defense frontal hits 9-10 inches are still enough and with this expansion even better. But the Federal HST Micro expands even more (0.7) and has also good penetration.
Yes but I read and saw on the HST website that those have been discontinued.
@@johnochicago8457 If you go on federals hp and look under Premium Personal Defense they are still listed.
I try to shoot down Hill or take a running Start so it's 900ft per second. Plus my moving forward so its 900 ft per second plus my 9 Miles a hour makes a difference
If you just start with the muzzle at the sky and whip your arms down as fast as possible depressing the trigger once the muzzle is level, you will add even more velocity.
Your personal gun has a lot to do with ammo selection if hitting to point of aim is an important consideration to you. My guns are all older and were regulated for 158 grain bullets so anything under about 140 hits too low for my preference. So, I stick with 148 wadcutters but, the Golden saber is a good round as is the Hornady mainly because its conical shape is less prone to hangups when reloading which is why I carry it for reloads since reloading is such a highly unlikely event, I put up with the POI/POA issue.
Thanks for your videos.
thanks for the informative videos ,,,,
Thanks. Rev
But what about a 3" snub barrel? Many like the 158 grain semi-wadcutter which does damage without expansion.
@GunSam thank you for your amazing tests! I have watched your vids for years and based on your snub results they influence the choices I make for my EDC ammo. Years ago you were impressed with the Federal 129 grain hydrashok. Then you also seemed to like the Winchester PDX1. Now through your tests you landed on the CD 110 grain+P. Do the light primer strikes of the ammo make you worried to continue to carry it? I could see in your face that you seemed surprised. Like you I don’t feel it was a Taurus issue but a bad quality control of ammo issue. Btw, I just bought 2 more boxes of the CD+P 👍🏽
Thanks professor
I picked up a 340pd last week and have been rewatching your old .38 special videos ever since.
While I would like to use .357 in those titanium cylinders to avoid having to clean up carbon rings, I don’t see why.
I’m between the hornady critical defense +p and underwood’s 125gr xtp .38spl +p.
Both are accurate from the 340,but those underwood’s definitely stand out.
Keep up the great content.
Try Buffalo Bore 158 gr. +P Semi wadcutter hollow cavity item number 20/20A.
They didn’t survive 2 shots before they jumped crimp out of that 12 oz revolver.
@@grzebyk05abletry the underwood 150gr standard pressure hardcast wadcutter
My hand is beginning to hurt after reading your comment about the .357 Mag in the 11 oz 340PD...LOL.
Thanks a lot !
Remington 125 grain scalloped jacket hollow point because I can't give up on the past.
I ran one through a windshield and was surprised at how well it did. Basic standard pressure 110 gr one. It's in an upcoming video.
Have you tested the Sig Elite Defense.38 Special +P 125 grain? If so, thoughts? That’s what I’ve been carrying and when I searched I did find your test of the V Crown but not the Elite Defense. If there’s even a difference… 38 has been hard to find in my area over the last year or so and I’ve been limited on selection outside of going online. I like your “no BS” approach to testing and would like to see any tests you’ve done in it or just your thoughts.
When the Federal HST load for micro revolvers came out, it was very reliable in ballistic gel from the snub nose length barrels.
The NYPD Speer Gold Dot load had a good reputation from officer involved shootings. My department issued Remington SWCHP 158 grain +P for the older veterans who carried a snub nosed for off duty or back up. The lead was softer and would expand compared to the same load offering from Federal or Winchester.
I never found the HST reliable in terms of performance. Tends to underpenetrate more than most rounds.
Great video. This subject is always loaded with controversy. I load for practice/training but I like to carry factory ammo for any carry situation. I've chosen Critical Duty in 9mm & .40ca. I wonder if Critical Duty would work well in the .38 as well?
Thanks. There is no Critical Duty in .38 Special or .38 Special+P. Now I can say that the Hydrashok Deep .38 Special+P is a decent load that is made in the same way that the Critical Duty is made, hard alloy and thick banded jacket etc. I tested them yesterday and they did very well. I just haven't released the video yet.
Im really glad you did this video. I don't have a stubby mostly for the ammo being to slow. Obviously i was wrong.
On your misfires with the 605. I would take the grips and make sure your strain screw is tight. Then check if it is the same chamber 😊
It's the ammo. Haven't had issues with ammo before or after this test.
Plus if I recall, Taurus doesn't use strain screws because they are coil springs.
I have been loving the norma safeguard 158gr, but its hard to find any reviews for it. Would love to see it tested on your channel through a 2" barrel. I run it in a RIA m206. Relatively stout round, going by feel alone.
I carry with Critical Defense in all my revolvers and most of my Semi autos. They are a good round and I never have a problem with them. They are a well designed round .
Most evaluations that I've seen of the Remington GS 125 gr. are really good. Remington's rated fps is a bit higher than most in its class, but apparently it's not fast enough to cause jacket separation. What is your view of that round for the 38 snubby? Thanks.
Your best .38spl test, if I remember, was the Buffalo Bore solid copper hp.
Great video! I have one question off track of what your addressing, do you know of anyone who makes a bigger grip for the .357 Taurus 605?
Those are both my carry loads. In winter I prefer the Hornady. Both great loads.
My choice is Hornady Critical Defense in my Charter Arms Undercover .38 spl 2 inch snub nose revolver.
Good job on that.
Gun Sam is GREAT and just as consistent, informative, and reliable as the best ammo he's even tested. I kind of miss the baloney though.
Hard to beat SW HP in soft or med soft lead for just about any revolver
Massad Ayoob among others, 1980s 1990s said the 158gr lead SWC HP +P was ✔️. I used the Buffalo Bore .38spl in the 2000s. I'm not crazy about lead, SWC lead bullets; hard to clean, lead-smoke.
@@DavidLLambertmobile common hard cast bevel base is just about the worst lead bullet . Matts Bullets is one place to get different hardness & flat base , the way it should be . Hard cast is best for high vel , but with the right size & flat or near flat base , they can be very good . The med hard lead is the best for most use , most don't offer it .
About the primer strikes. I have found out that if the primer isn't seated completely and bottomed out in the pocket you will get light strikes. The energy is lost on the first strike and usually that seats the primer deeper and it fire's on the second strike. Just my 2 cents.
My favorite is the underwood 125 grain plus p jhp gold dot 👌
I believe that your test of the Buffalo Bore LSWCHP 158 gr lead standard pressure actually performed better than the Hornady XTP 125gr +P. That is what I use in for my snub nose EDC.
XTP's can be decent but their expansion threshold is more 'critical' (no pun here). Handloading them in .38+P, I need like 930 FPS+ to get expansion. Issue is when Hornady themselves will load the American Gunner with the 125 XTP, the velocity in a snub is like 800 FPS and a 4" maybe 900 FPS.
Well Difference makes the world go round, I will take the Gold Dot. Thanks Sam.
Have you considered soaking your MDF in water prior to using it. It may be messier but might be a better analog for the sternum or rib having a moisture content.
Great videos. Thanks
Thanks. No, it will basically rot the gel as I don't clean them immediately. I get a dozen remelts in the synthetic gel and don't want to ruin that process.
Your channel is very objective and fair. Thank you !!! n.w., N.C.
Would love to see this load tested against the Standard Pressure version. Arthritis in my hands has made recoil an issue for me.
th-cam.com/video/jhttE19zBSY/w-d-xo.html
Try DMSO for your pain.
I haven't found a factory load for 2" or shorter barrels that I actually like. I run a 135 grain Gold Dot and Silhouette powder (flash suppressed and one of the best powders for +P). I get over 940 FPS average from a 1 7/8" Ruger LCR. Exceptional load; accurate and expansion and penetration are just about as good as you can get from a snubby (over .5" and 15-17" in clear gel/fabric).
Federal HST Micro ?
And it kills your hand and makes follow up shots difficult.
Srsly try that out of a 12oz scandium, friend.
@@bonsaw57 The LCR weighs 13.3 ounces, and I have no issue making fast and accurate follow up shots thanks to lots of practice (with lower-recoiling stuff) and good technique. These ARE punishing for sure, but I don't shoot them for fun, and I'd rather have a sore palm than shoot an underperforming load.
@@noahmercy-mann4323 shot placement is supreme for sure. I’m partial to the 110 gr ballistic cap hornadys. 38 spec +p of course. I haven’t found anything close to that for best self defense
Over on a Ruger Forum the subject of bad primers and lower powder amounts tan advertised came up. I'll skip the powder. I have no way of knowing. The short story is that all of the factory loads had an occasional light strike or dud. As it happens yesterday at the range I had 2 light strikes from Federal HST. I've had in the past light strikes with a couple of others. I assumed it was limited to those brands. Then the reloaders jumped in stating that their old primers of all brands were fine but the new stuff had problems. It appears that demand exceeded quality control.
I consider snubbies as either belly guns or ohmygawd guns. Up close and personal and at least the double tap.
As usual I can't see any responses. Thanks for the video Mr. Sam.
Great job. One of the best channels I have seen on YT. THANKS. Keep it going.
Thank you
I heard a rumor that Federal stopped making the 38 spc HST ammo. It's too bad because it was getting almost 3/4" expansion and 13-14" penetration.
I was getting roughly the penetration I got with these Critical Defense with about that 3/4" expansion. I have noticed for maybe a year that Federal has had them listed as discontinued. They were okay, but I think Federal could have done better. I would say the Punch is a bit better as it's more powerful, seems to be similar to the traditional HST.
I agree I use the Hornady
I use good old 158 try and true in mine I have a box of the low recoil ammo haven’t used it only grabbed it cause at the time was a shortage .
Over the years, testing ammo in water jugs Critical Defense has been the most consistent load I've seen across all calibers tested
2 years ago ,6-8year old H critical defence+P 125gr.corked my mom's 38 special Taurus. Test thru chrono. Old rounds aren't always safe
38spl was a good round 60 years ago.
And while i still own and love my 38s, i cannot see me carrying one for self defense in modern times
Not only bigger with the CD but quicker expansion, which can be more beneficial in my opinion.
Yes. I have seen in all my studies, that the faster a bullet expands such as within 2" of gel, indicates real world performance of expansion directly after skin. All the ammo gel tested to expand this way, correlates to high 'stopping power' in real world situations. There's way too many 'gel performers' out there, designed to specifically meet FBI requirements of 12" to 18" in organic gel with 1.5 times expansion. The problem with this, is that ammo designed for gel, will gradually expand to 1.5 times expansion and look perfect in gel tests, but perform terribly in real world situations because it's expanding too late.
Anyone have any comments on the Kimber K6s? I got to finally fondle one and it felt really good and balanced in my hand. I've been shooting S&W snubbies for many, many years, but no other makes. Thanks and Blessings Sam, great information!
Thanks. While I don't have Kimber experience and while I think S&W is the best revolver maker that exists, their J-Frames aren't that good. I would rather carry this cheap Taurus over a S&W J-Frame and it's why I carry my Ruger LCR. I gave my J-Frame to my girlfriend because she's not a shooter, just needed protection while walking. And that's what the J-Frame is best at, at being carried a lot and shot not a lot. While you can technically shoot them a lot, they just don't shoot great and their light frames that makes carry great make the shootability pretty poor. Plus I was never accurate with them.
@@GunSam I can attest to S&W revolver issues in recent times with a new in the box Model 43 22 LR that I could hardly open the cylinder. It made an immediate round trip and after a month or so, it was fixed to my satisfaction. Over the years, since about 1974, I have had very few issues with S&W revolvers, and I did carry them on and off duty until transitioning to S&W 9mm semi auto's. I did have a terrible shooting 6 inch Model 14 (K-38) somewhere around 78 or 79. S&W, as well as Colt went through some periods of terrible quality control issues. Nothing against Ruger, I was never drawn to them, but I do enjoy shooting the old Vaquero revolvers, and I wish I hadn't traded my Bisley .44. I just remembered that I had a Charter Arms Bulldog .44 Spl that I had the barrel cut and crowned and bobbed and checkered the hammer and polished the trigger and I carried that a lot. Sadly, that one too has been gone for a long time now. I do love revolvers, but in today's world of threats, I rely upon having way more resistance available than back in my revolver days. Thanks Sam!
I have a Ruger GP100 with a 2.5 inch barrel, a Ruger SP101 2 inch barrel, a Kimber K6S with a 3 inch barrel. I had a Colt King Cobra but sold it because the the trigger reset was too long, if I tried to shoot it fast the trigger wouldn't reset sometimes. As much as I like the Ruger's I think the Kimber has a nicer trigger and it is more refined in fit and finish. It also has a wood grip that I thought would make it less comfortable but that isn't the case. If I had to keep only one it would be the Kimber.
@@markmcdonald5711 thank you! After holding and dry firing the 3 inch K6s, i thought that for me, it just feels better than the new Colt Python. The S&W's and the Ruger's feel okay, but again, for me, the Kimber feels the best. I'd sure like to shoot one before dropping $1,000 or more because I'm also aching to have a Springfield M1A Scout Squad, and it's going to require more dough from the bakery. Thanks again Mark!
I carry handloads. 38 Special +P 140 grain Lehigh defenders at 1000 fps. My revolver choice is the 605 as well.
Any idea how many rounds you have through your 605
Following. My Smith likes the 160 grain button nose I cast but it's too nice a gun to carry. (Old 19). Thinking of getting a TORO
In my opinion, what you showed was to always test your carry loads and switch them out often.
Always enjoy your vids. If you can test the Lehigh 140 grain defender at about 1000 fps from your Taurus in the future, that would be great. I think you have tested the lighter version before iirc. I carry a 605 black oxide with handloads - that bullet at 1000 fps. My 605 shoots right to point of aim at 25 yards with most loads. I really like it.
Another great video with sharing views on self defense in the real world
I carry BB st/p hcwc in my 4” and 2” abd would be content with U/wood too. But really it’s shot placement
Great job Sam,as usual.I have been around the block a bit.Your vids are always well done.Generally I like to carry
44 Spec.357 mag,45 acp, 40 S &W.I don't like 9mm have bad luck With them.They have been recommend to me.I have
light S&W637 38 spec use
110 Hornady CD.Underwood
150 wadcutter good.In my 44 spc.Bulldog 200 gr.Under wood Wadcutter Very stiff recoil in my injured hand.I am
going back to heavier guns.
There have been a few problems even with heavier
Caliber's.In my recent Ccw class my instructor informed
our class of ammo malfunctions across all brands sans Buffalo bore,Underwood not shot in class.These guys are running
30 students per class 2x per week. There was issues in my class.Unfortunately.Good luck
all.
In my revolvers I run heavy grain hard cast ammo. I prefer not to use +P because I value rapid follow up accuracy over that tiny bit of increased velocity. IMO the heavier weight hard round will penetrate better in all circumstances. Because JHP ammo is so velocity and barrier dependent. Your JHP ammo might work fine against a threat wearing a Tshirt but fail to expand against a heavy coat. Also, the velocities are typically listed off of 4" barrels and mine are all 2" barrels. I do the same thing with my Glock 42 ammo. I run heavy hard cast standard velocity rounds rather than HP ammo. I might be off in my thinking though. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. The Internet is good for that if nothing else.
Saw pretty good things from underwood item 733 158 grain fbi load +p with hi-tek coating. Just got my box in the mail and ordered some hi-tek wadcutters
And I’m confused, I thought you preferred the 110gr Hornady non- +P in the 2 inch.
Appreciate all you do and highly value your opinion
Thx
I used the 135gr Gold Dot and noticed that it doesn't penetrate that much with zero expansion. I have those also but don't use them. Critical defense is the most accurate round I've shot in my 640. I have Underwood 150gr Wadcutters labeled 1000fps from a 4" and around 900 in the 2" barrel. I think over-penetration may be a problem but I like them anyway because they won't under-penetrate. Underwood semi-wadcutter158 gr plus p is really hot and also may over-penetrate but I like those also because I know they will also penetrate. I wish they made them in a softer lead because hard cast lead does risk hitting someone behind what you are shooting. I can't seem to find any with a softer lead that doesn't over-penetrate and still meets the FBI testing protocol.
I used to load them 135's up a lot when hand loading. A light .357 Mag does well with them, but yeah in .38 Special they don't really expand in a snub. If I recall, I did test them in .357 Mag in a 2" and they expanded well but in a 4" barrel, the short barrel 135 gr .357 load actually over-expanded and blew the petals off. It's a very finicky bullet wanting about 1,000-1,100 FPS.
@@GunSam Thank you Sam, I think I'll try the Gold Dot in .357 mag. Not that much more recoil but definitely will get their attention.
Do you have a video where you test the same 38 sp +p ammo in 2, 3, and 4 inch barrels?
I’m curious what would be better out of a 3inch revolver like the GP101. 9mm vs. 38 special. Have you ever done this comparison? If so what did you find? If not what would you expect?
I have not, but a 3" 9mm revolver will give roughly the velocity of a 4" 9mm semiauto. So with most ammo the .38 Special+P gives around 250-275 ft lbs energy in a 3" revolver, and a 9mm+P would give something like 350-400 ft lbs energy in a 3" revolver.
Ive had brass dust from the primers gum out the cylinder timing.. so now i always bring a toothbrush to the range .
Thoughts on the Underwood flying screwdriver and lead wadcutters?
Lead wadcutters are good, they are predictable on what they do and there's real world data to show they are effective so there's multi-layer data which I like. With the other ammo, other than someone being like "I shot a big old hog with the Xtreme bullet in .308 and it worked great!", I don't have any evidence of how well they would actually do in the real world. Also my other concern is hard barriers as even though solid copper is hard, I wonder about like through windshields and whatnot. Barriers like that mangle bullets (fine for HP's as they still impact big and mushroomed) and they also reduce at least half of your velocity....so I wonder with low velocity and damaged flutes, would they still do as well as they do in plain gel.
When ballistic testing used pigs most standard bullet weights and velocities were established.
Modern Self Defense cartridges are based on Ballistic Gallatin.
Military ballistic requirements do not have a fear of an exit hole.
Police ballistic requirements require no exit hole do to legal reasons.
Civilian Self Defense requirements are Similar to LEO’s.
With all of these things to consider the low penetration and high number of hits seems to be a prudent Self Defense cartridge for urban scenarios where an exiting bullet cannot happen.
This is where a 38 and a 380 become perfect. Multiple hits are easy for most shooters with these calibers. So it might be a good test for you explore further.
Hey Gun Sam, just a quick question. If your .38 snub will only shoot standard pressure, what's the best ammo to run? Right now, I'm using Remington wheelgun lead semi wadcutters. I see here, both ammos are plus P. Your thoughts. Thanks and take care.
I would probably use either 110 gr SJHP ammo, 148 gr wadcutters or LSWC-HP like Underwood standard pressure.
Thanks for the response Sam, much appreciated. Fine work as always, but I do miss the Jug Or Not box lol. Take care.
One brand of ammo I haven't seen on this channel yet is Steinel. I've tried contacting you Sam via email about sending a couple boxes to the channel for testing but no response. 🤨 They have a load for the .38 Special in +p called "Snub Nose Pro" with an all-copper pre-segmented rated at 900 fps from a 1.9" barrel, and looks to be promising.
Also, you tested Barnes TAC-XP bullets before on this channel (110gr I believe) and they performed VERY well in gell and gell/barriers with the snub. What is your opinion of the TAC-XP vs the Hornady 110gr and Gold dot 125?
I used to have my email up but then I got so many daily emails that were all basically TH-cam comments, flooding my inbox. I don't recall reading an emails about that ammo brand so it must have been missed. The TAC-XP is a very good bullet, it is an excellent bullet in everything I have tested it in. That Buffalo Bore in a +P has been out of stock for like, 3 years now but I been wanting to test it in gel rather than my original water jug test. I would say that the TAC-XP is probably better than the Gold Dot and Critical Defense, but because they are hard to come by I will always call a more common round a better round. Gold Dot seems to be where it is currently for being one of the best rounds.
@@GunSam Okay no prob, I understand.
Seems Barnes is the maker of the TAX-XP bullet no matter who loads it? (Barnes, DoubleTap, Buffalo Bore)
Steinel seems to have ammo available often. Maybe grab a box or two of that stuff at some point, if you're curious. They seem to have some pretty potent loads in a variety of revolver and semi-auto cartridges.
I'll second trying out Steinel's .38 Special load. I don't carry it much anymore myself, due to cost and availability, but I've always found it to be pretty accurate. Recoil isn't TOO bad either, even in a lightweight snub.
@@CyborgZeta Thanks for the second opinion!