Concealed Carry: 38 Special Ammo Selection (Featuring Hornady Critical Defense Lite)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ต.ค. 2022
- Paul tests some 38 special ammo for concealed carry including Hornady Critical Defense Lite ammo.
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Hey everyone, I said the HCD lite was an 80 grain bullet, it's a 90 grain bullet.
Also, once again, you have NOT won a prize, that's a scam that management is helpless to correct.
You mean I didn't win an official Paul Harrell hunting jacket straight from the Asian Sub Continent?
An interesting take on the impact deviation of various ammunitions would be also shooting them through a snub nose .357 like the Ruger SP-101. Since these revolvers can also chamber and fire .38 SPL. And would obviously also handle the hottest +P rounds.
No prize... 🥺😢😭
@@ftdefiance1 🤣
But it had you logo on it, it must be real!!! 🤣 Now go have some BBQ ribs!!!
I'm going back and watching all these videos and am so thankful that Paul made these but also heartbroken that these are the last videos we will ever see. I pray for you every day good Sir.
Yessir
Same. Just bought a dream gun of mine, a SW 19 so I'm doing the circuit of good .38 and .357 vids. Such a shame about Paul's health.
They broke the mold after Paul. A great man.
I'm thankful I found this content and Paul. 🙏
Hi Paul. I found this video very interesting, because when I started in law enforcement my city had a 650 officer police department and a 300 officer Sheriff's department. My older brother who was my roommate at the time was a Captain with the police department, and became a Sergeant with the Sheriff's Department. I became super interested in police shootings from a medical standpoint so I got permission to read all the shooting reports, and time permitting, attend the autopsies in cases of fatalities. The results were eye opening. This was the very early eighties and every patrolman, and every Deputy who was issued a sidearm (jailers didn't get a sidearm) was issued a 4-inch S&W Model 64, and plainclothes guys like detectives got a 2-inch 64. The issue load for both guns was the Winchester Western 158 grain LSWC +P Hollow Points.
Maybe the guys we shot at were not as determined back then, because it seemed like a lot of them gave up either when we first displayed weapons (this changed over the next few years) or would go down after one shot because they didn't wish to be shot again. But regrettably we were forced to kill 25 or so suspects in three years and I was able to attend the autopsies on most of those. It was instructive. The first thing I learned was that there wasn't much wrong with our duty load from a 4-inch. The bullet in that load was soft lead, so much that if you didn't have a pencil to write a quick note or phone number down, you could pull a cartridge from your loops and use it to write with. I had a very old school Sheriff who approved me to carry speed loaders after I demonstrated them, but still made me wear the 18 additional cartridges in the loops.
Anyway, when I would attend an autopsy with this load from a four inch, the bullet was never classically expanded, but rather it was deformed and came out looking like a piece of parking lot gravel. It would typically be recovered on a chest shot just under the skin on the back of the suspect. The very few shooting autopsies I saw from the 2-inch guns didn't have as much deformation and on the four I went to, the bullet was recovered in the rear, stopped by a coat if the suspect was wearing one, or had been found at the scene directly behind the person shot, laying on the street. I didn't have a chronograph back then. We had no real complaints with this load other than as the streets got meaner, the officers wanted higher capacity so we went with Sig P226's loaded with some truly awful first generation 147 grain hollow points that were so bad that a lot of older officers got permission to keep carrying their .38's. These initial loads didn't meet expansion threshold because the FBI told us that a slow "subsonic" round was somehow magical and we believed it. They typically made an exit wound, and the number of rounds fired in a shooting went up. The rep of the 9mm loads that were too slow was so bad that we got all new guns in the 90's, chosen by a group of officers, male and female who chose the .357 SIG overwhelmingly after shooting it, which was, and is an amazing round for law enforcement.
By the way, back when we still had revolvers we had a Federal rep try to sell us Nyclads. The rep's sales pitch was not increased performance, but rather reduced airborne lead on our indoor range, which is how Federal marketed the round I was surprised to see that you can still buy Nyclads.
I had occasion to find some of the 158 grain +P LSWC HP Winchester load about three years ago after quite a search. I also bought some Federal in the same style. It was odd, both of them gave me around 925-950 fps or so from a 4-inch, but both were loaded with a noticeably harder lead bullet, and results in ordnance gel were disappointing to me. Lots of penetration, actually too much, with limited expansion. I bought a box of Remington HTP in that style and it appeared that Remington loaded it about 50 fps less than my old stash of Remington. So I sort of gave up on the 158 grain stuff, and after testing settled on the Remington Golden Saber 125 grain BJHP. This was noisier from my snub, but had less recoil and I bought a case of it in the 25 round boxes. I'm glad I did because it seems like Remington redesigned the bullet in their Black Belt line to address complaints of jacket-core separation. I think too much was made of this because that separation was taking place at or near the end of the bullet's travel, so who cares? All the backyard gel testers on TH-cam apparently. Now the current Golden Saber load doesn't expand as readily from a 2-inch.
As for the full wadcutters, that originally was sold as an accuracy load for target competition, and for that purpose it is great if one doesn't hand load. Those of us that did used full wadcutters that were even slower than the factory load. I remember that little piece of folk lore about turning a wadcutter backwards. I went to a firearms instructor school at FLETC taught by the late Jim Cirillo where he admitted to having done that in the 70's while a member of the NYPD stakeout squad, but he hastened to add that he would never do it in modern times. I loaded some up just to try the idea, and got results that were okay but not great, and I would not be carrying handloads for defense in any case.
I think the advice to use full wadcutters that I've heard makes some sense when given in context. What I've heard expressed to new shooters who insist on carrying an Airweight J frame is that since there is hardly anything that actually expands from these guns, you may as well get the lower recoil and perhaps a sharp cutting shoulder as the bullet passes through. I'm not sure how true that is in practice, but for a new shooter, I say reduced recoil is a good thing., so maybe that might be a good choice.
Well this comment is already too long, but I want to thank your for testing the Hornady Critical Defense from your snub on your ingenious meat target. I generally have had less than stellar results with Critical Defense in other calibers, but admit I've never tried them in .38 Special. When I carry a J-frame now, its an old Model 49, the all-steel version of your 638. I think I'll put a few boxes on my next ammo order and try them out.
After all the gelatin testing I did before I got old and retired, I think we probably get better real world information when you shoot your meat targets. I know they must be a hell of lot of work to build. I thank you for all that work. I think I'm going to find your Patreon site and throw you a few bucks each month. You deserve it, and you provide a valuable service to the shooting community. I worked in the gun game for more than 40 years, and I still learn from your videos. Take care.
Yes, I read the whole thing. Very interesting.
Always good to get info from people with real experience/training.
Sounds like your autopsies are showing the same results as the meat target (and the deer I've shot).
And yes, I remember the FBI promoting the 147 gr. projectiles that didn't live up to the hype.
Thanks for the input.
This was a marvelous review. Thanks Paul. Exactly what was needed.
VERY informative post, before this video I had been considering doing SWC or WC in a .38 as a cheaper and lighter alternative to current pricings of 9mm, but always put it off. your post, coupled with pauls results, tells me I'm better investing in a shoulder holster for my 9mm so my back problems don't impede my conceal carry.
Thank you, sir. Good stuff. And not unlike Paul's, well reasoned upon real-world experience, with considerable effort expended. Retired as well myself, but my department wasn't particularly 'enlightened' when making these decisions, unfortunately. Your diligence most impressive!
👍
@@PaulHarrell you’ve nailed it! Every projectile has an expansion velocity, so the combination of pistol AND round make the difference! I lean towards the HCD also, and like that they can’t plug and fail due to the polymer. They’re also a bit more streamlined due to that construction, helping velocity, and the presence of the gel may help them expand at velocities lower than an empty cavity simply because the polymer already fills the cavity and is able to immediately exert force on the cavity walls on impact.
It has always made sense to me in short barreled guns, revolvers or semi autos, to use lighter bullets to get velocity up, so your results make perfect sense. I don’t mind recoil or noise, so I’ll take the +P and the middle weight bullet in order to get expansion. Good expansion also helps prevent “over penetration” but for me that’s just a byproduct of good expansion, which of course I’ll take too.
Your videos are the best for the self defense firearms user!! Thank you again!
I am someone who has carried a revolver no further than my mailbox. And yet I still clicked this quickly because I have never not learned something from paul.
I always recommend to people "questioning" to get a cheap holster, and cheap airsoft handgun, and put both on the belt around the house.
Good job on carrying at all. 🤓👍
@@OutsideTheTargetDemographic Oh I carry every day, just usually either my p229 or my P365xl spectre comp. I own revolvers but I hardly carry them because they are, in my admittedly biased opinion, obsolete.
@@andrewvachon1943 My revolvers are BUGs, or for hunting/bear defense. Carry is usually a semiauto, unless I'm out in nature. All will do the job, if I do mine. Hard to conceal that 6-7-8 shot cylinder girth....
@@OutsideTheTargetDemographic I lean more towards the autoloading 10 mills for hunting/bear defense, love my P320 xten, but i was looking at the ruger super redhawk alaskan for a bear gun.
@@andrewvachon1943 I have a 5 shot 44mag 4 incher for when we go out west, I'm stuck with 9mm and 45 for semis. Never tried the boutique calibers.
My favorite thing about Paul isn't the concise and articulate speech, the never ending supply of knowledge based on first hand, scientific results, or even the dry, perfectly delivered humor.
It's the fact that even after demonstrating whatever knowledge he is trying to convey at great detail, he ALWAYS encourages us to take his results with a grain of salt and come to our own conclusions.
In a world full of paid advertisers posing as gun aficionados, Paul is the absolute real deal.
Thank you for everything you do for this community.
Every time Paul says "tedious" I know I'm about to be riveted.
I've noticed the same.
Me too.
It's like when Hickok 45 says "I'm probably going to miss."
I usually jump to the "crunch the numbers" instead of watching the entire chrono tests. I know it's heresy, but I admit it.
When he says tedious or dry, I get Stockholm syndrome.
I do not own a firearm chambered in 38 special. I do have a fondness for videos from this American legend. ❤️
My Sunday is complete.
@@timetraveler1973 What?
For shame
I inherited my father's Ruger SP-101 which is chambered in .357 Magnum. That means it will also shoot .38 SPL. What this video showed me is if for whatever reason I need to load it with .38SPL to use either wadcutters or the Critical Defense 110 grain FTX.
@@TwentytenS4B8 Why don't you just load it with .357? I must be missing something.
My 74-year-old mom carries a .38 special revolver as her EDC. She has severe osteoporosis and even in training, her wrists get very swollen and painful after 50-100 rounds on the range.
After she started using the Hornady Critical Defense Lite she can practice without pain - meaning she practices more often and is not afraid of breaking her bones from any recoil.
I'm just glad she still trains, has good eyesight ... and still carries!
Have them practice with the mild loads but make sure they carry something juicier. In a self defense situation they won’t notice with all the Adrenaline. Remember, at the range you use hearing protection, in a self defense situation you don’t. 99% of people aren’t prepared for how loud a 38 is up close; it’s amazing how you don’t even notice with all the Adrenaline in a self defense situation.
@@cal30m1 But what they may notice, is a Differing POA and reaction with the "Juicier" loads . I say, train with what you intend to carry and use, preventing deviation from the performance they are accustomed to, when it becomes a necessity.
Mr. Saegal - get Mom's revolver a trigger spring job so it's easier for her to blast BGs into next Tuesday. In a fight/flight situation she'll need a lightened trigger. The $100+ or so it may cost is worth it.
Years ago I had to draw my J-frame in anticipation of a break-in, and quickly my palms got sweaty and the gun gained about a pound. The BG in my case wandered off after pounding on my door for a minute till he drifted off
Your mother is on the right track, and I'm sure you helped her get there. It is much better to shoot a load that one is comfortable and confident with than to chase the most "effective" load that you may not control as well or may even be scared to shoot. When, heaven forbid, your mother has to use her gun in self-defense, if she looks as though she is ready, willing, and able to pull the trigger, she probably won't have to. And even if she does, the person who threatened her chose her because he felt she was an easy mark at her age. He isn't going to stand there and persist after he gets a couple of even tame .38 Special rounds to the chest. Best wishes to you and your Mom!
What about fn 5.7? Or some 22 mag or something like that? With her age, just getting multiple shots easily and fast rather than 1 big bang and hurting wrist or even dropping the gun.
Tedious and dry = Comprehensive and factual
Wait right there, Paul. I'm grabbing a strong beverage to fully absorb into this material.
...
Ok, ready!
I carry a J-Frame daily, thank you for doing this research. I have a hard time finding .38 Special ammo, and no means of testing it for effectiveness at the local ranges.
I truly appreciate your efforts to educate on these matters.
Not trying to discount Paul's testing (it's great!) but Lucky Gunner does have ballistic gel tests for .38 that show penetration depth and expansion, which might also help you make an informed choice. I would also recommend checking their tests out.
@@hirumaryuei more info is always better, if you've got the time to digest it!
@@hirumaryuei Thanks, I have seen the Lucky Gunner presentation. I think they do a great job as well. If I remember, they used a K6S and a GP100, not a JFrame.
I always have some 158gr LRN 38 special ammo on hand. Unlike most people, I don't have a problem using it for carry ammo. Most 38 special hanguns are sighted in for the 158gr rounds and I believe the bottom line with this caliber, especially from snub guns, is shot placement and rapid, multiple hits on target.
@@shadowwolf9503 Beware of over penetration. Old school cops called them "Widow Makers" for a reason.
Stay safe out there.
My budget lives vicariously through Paul Harrell videos and his acquisition and usage of ammo.
I shot so many boxes of Remington 125 grain +P purchased at a local big box store…$13 a box. I miss those days. Carried a Model 60 .357 with .38 +P for years, recently switched to the Shield Plus in 9mm, with the 13 round magazines. Never miss a Paul Harrell video!
I remember when wally world had the 100 round remington jhp in 9mm for around $20 per box. They had cheap target ammo too but they caved to the anti gun crowd and no longer sell pistol ammo.
@@chrisjones6002 It now feels like a lifetime ago, and the end of an era.
@@chrisjones6002 Yep, my local wallyworld here in Michigan does not sell any handgun ammo or 5.56/7.63x39 ammo either.
They finally got in .22lr ammo by the case load at reasonable prices, different manufacturers too.
@@hervvernon8911 oh man, what would we do without him....
@@tonyv8925 I have been picking up the 325ct boxes of 22LR Federal at Walmart. I try to pick up a box every month or so. It builds up quickly, but I also have an AR chambered in 22, so I can go through them like candy when I get out to the range haha
You know what? I'd rather have 38 Spec of any variety than nothing.
Cheers for all you do Paul!
If it means you are able to carry everyday and comfortably. That said small guns are just harder to shoot sometimes but thats why we practice
@@jaredwright1655 - I agree with boingkster! I'd rather have a flintlock than nothing! (It's not very good on follow-up shots, though.)
@@douglasdavis8395 Though if you hit, it's not going to need another 😀
@@MongooseTacticool - With .58 or .75, probably not!
@@jaredwright1655 Key concept right there. The best handgun in the world is useless if you are downtown and the gun is at home.
I have it on good authority that even a little .25ACP looks like a train tunnel when you are staring down the wrong end of it. I've also found that even the most vocal detractors of the .25ACP all agree that they really wouldn't want to be shot with one at close range. I have my EDC weapon, but the little MP-25 is generally lurking around somewhere close.
0:16 - bullets used for presentation
10:09 - velocity number crunching
15:04 - accuracy crunching
19:06 - meat crunching
28:55 - conclusion crunch
Outstanding video as always.
Several years ago an elderly shopkeeper in Coffeyville Kansas dropped a 250 pound thug with a single shot to the centerline of throat. Round was a standard velocity wadcutter in .38 special. Dirtbag died pretty much in his tracks. SHOT PLACEMENT
The 110gr. Critical Defense round seems to be the winner here . I've carried everything under the sun when it comes to .38special ammo , but I've never known what to expect as far as performance . Consequently , I'm going with the Critical Defense round . Thank you Mr. Harrell for educating us , you're truly making a difference .
Paul: “Todays presentation will be tedious and dry”
Me: big grin sitting at work alone guarding a courthouse on a weekday for 8 hours.
I used to carry a S&W 642 myself because it was easy to carry. At first, I made the mistake of thinking I was strong enough to handle 158 gr+P because "you won't care about recoil." After shooting 10 rounds of Buffalo Bore +P 158 grains, I gave up because my hand got a blood blister. Almost never wanted to carry the gun or ammo again until I using the 110gr +P FTXs. I found them accurate, easy (enough) to find at my local stores, powerful enough, and actually bearable. Story aside, a lesson I learned was that shootability of your ammo becomes important so you'll actually train with it at the range more than once. I found this especially applies to lightweight guns like the S&W 637/638/642. This is why I gave up on 158gr +Ps like Federal and BB.
Buffalo Bore also produces standart pressure .38 sp ammo. Still little bit more powerfull than Federal, Rem etc +P:).
buffalo bore plus p 38 spec ammo is a 357 short magnum.have you ever crony tested that stuff? it comes out well 1000 fps. no wonder your hand hurt. must have been lots of fun shooting it out of a 14.5 oz gun.😀
If I go without shooting for several months, I too develop deep blisters on my inner thumb when shooting Air Weights. I make it a point every time going to the range I put at least 25 rounds through one of my J-frames to keep the calluses on my hand thick.
158 +P from 13oz M37 was all the fun I would care to enjoy .
It * could * be done with acceptable speed and accuracy . but 50 rds of it would leave the shooting hand hurting into the next day .
You make an excellent point. Every time I see someone in a video (not Paul) shooting one of the Scandium framed mini-magnums, I wince in sympathy. That really can't be fun. When I was younger I could ignore recoil, but my hands and wrists just can't take it now. I carried an Airweight J-frame for about 30 years, but now that I'm older I have had to pull out my old Model 49 steel frame to carry. That is much easier for me to handle without pain all the next day when I shoot it. The difference in weight between it and my Mode 638 is only six ounces. In my cargo shorts I can even pocket carry it. By the way, has anyone noticed the price difference between an S&W Airweight and a new steel-frame J? It's a lot and I don't fully understand why.
Another benefit to Critical Defense is that the pointy bullets make it easier to charge the cylinder holes under stress. Good video as always.
Lol, is a "price" in whatever non english speaking country your scam originates from the same as a prize? 🤔
I loved this video as the testing was of a common EDC handgun. Specifically the 638. I REALLY wanted the last meat test to be with the Speer GDHP as they make that 135grn +P with fast burning powders specifically for 1-7/8” barrels.
that would def be a result I would like to see. as well as the Remington gold saber. I am going to go look back at some of pauls older videos he might have done this already.
You posted this video mere days after I bought a .38 snub for a backup concealed carry. Thanks a bunch, Paul. Your content is extremely helpful
I have to say the Critical Defense line always seems to be a solid performer. It might not always be the "best" choice for every caliber but I don't think it's ever a bad choice either. In my experience it's reliable in ammo picky guns and has mild recoil too. If I wasn't sure what carry ammo to pick it would be my default choice.
I always wonder if the defense, duty and hunter from Hornaday perform any different.
If I don’t have time to test myself I always grab the Critical Defense. Obviously there are better choices in many calibers and gun configurations, but it’s a very good starting point because it has quite a good window of effectiveness and is less dependent on barrel lengths then most boutique ammo. (Still have Spear Gold Dot for my old .45 Colt 1911, not because it’s the best but because it’s the best that worked every time for at least 3 10rd mags in a row).
Largely agree. Hornady's XTP hollow point projectile is a consistent solid performer. It rarely if ever gives the most spectacular expansion but it generally will expand and penetrate in good balance. The "Critical" versions with the ballistic tip tilt it a little more toward expansion, which can help in less energetic calibers.
Even in .380 ACP, it's a good choice. If you can get the XTP up to around 850 fps it will usually expand, while penetrating decently.
@@ShutterManAce the critical duty is a bearer blind ammo so it doesn't expand as well.
I suggest you take a look at the dozens of gel comparisons at Lucky Gunner labs ballistic tests. Federal and Winchester JHP generally expand best across many calibers, and Hornady is usually middle of the pack. Yes, velocity is a major factor in expansion, but so is bullet design.
My Sunday just got better.
🍻
Took the words right out of my mouth!👌
This is one of the best .38 Special concealed carry ammo videos I have seen.
Elmer Keith bullet he developed in 44 magnum is a well thought out design for the large mammal he was going to shoot. Every bullet has a target weight it is being used on and every gun has a favorite bullet in your shooting hands. All excellent points brought out in a good presentation as always.Elmer was wanting something his No. 5 could shoot hunting game he tracked on horseback and needed to be comfortable hours in the saddle carrying. A subnose in an urban environment is meeting a different need and your data answered a lot of questions clearly and concisely.
When I was 5, and got my 4in 66 SW the bullets I most often loaded for it were 158gr KEITH SWC in .38Spl. Started molding them myself at 7. Still loaded .38Spl loads with them(4.5gr of Unique powder) for most shooting, but also loaded them in .357(7.7gr of Unique) for "fun" loads. So the Keith SWC was prevalent in .357 caliber as well as .44(which is my general load in my .44s today).
Paul thank you I've gone almost exclusively to 38 snubs and been wondering about the best load. I have been carrying a high velocity hard cast wadcutter from Buffalo Bore and Gold Dot 135s as a reload. I've invested heavily in both these and they both hit with the sights pretty good so I'm gonna stick here. But I respect the Hornady FTX a lot so I might work some of that in too. Thank you sir, you worked a long time on this one and it shows.
We have a presentation that features a demo of the Buffalo Bore 158 gr. hard cast wad cutter.
Thorough, informative, complete and excellent verbal skills to get it all out, simply the best!
Meat target never lies. Way more telling then gel or water jugs. Thanks Paul 👍.
Low capacity aside, .357/.38 is my daily go to round. .357 140 grain Federal Barnes Expanders and 125 grain Hornady CD. In .38÷p, I use 110 grain Hornady CD, and 120 grain Federal Premium Punch. Your "dry" presentation was of great interest to me. Paul.
Great video, as always. You are always so thorough, and cover all the bases, in the amount of time you have for your videos.
Thank you Paul, not the results I expected so a great learning experience once again
Paul, has there been a fund started yet to replace your couch?
It's got to be getting a little thread bare by now! 😊
Great video, as usual! 👍👍
I often carry my Ruger LCR chambered in .38 + P and carried in a pocket holster. It's very light and I think perfect for shooting at close range. I have a 9mm that holds 15 + 1, but only carry it when I have a way to conceal it. Hopefully, I'll never have to use either one, but if I am robbed or assaulted by a person at close range I can shoot a fairly tight pattern without having to look down the barrel. Love your channel
I have used a .38 special in dire straits. I have found that the 148gr. wadcutter is an excellent close encounter round. The wadcutter is a hard hitter at gunfight ranges and punches a neat hole.
Was the recoil significantly lower with the wadcutters?
Great job Paul! Thanks for all you do!
Excellent presentation. Thank you Paul!
This was a delightful video to watch! Not just because it's Paul, but because I have a collection of 38/357 revolvers and recently went from 357 Mag to 38 Spc +P 110grn _Hornady_ CD ammo in my carry guns. Thanks for another great video!
How often do you carry them, and what are your carry guns if I may ask?
@@rj1234100 Every day, almost everywhere. _Ruger_ LCR, 357 version with CT laser grip. I have two of them, and carry both at times.
I have the Ruger LCR in .38 and also a 20" lever action that I often use and share ammo between the two
you should stick with the 357 mag and 125 grain bullets there alot more powerful. you are neutering your gun.
@@justinriley8651 How do they compare to bigger gr?
Thanks Paul, the effort you put into your standardized testing does not go unnoticed! I really appreciate your methods and honest rhetoric.
I appreciate the info. I can tell you put alot of experience and hard work into these videos. Thank you.
Excellent and very thorough video as usual. Thank you!!
Very thorough test examples. Thank you for all you've done for us. Nice to see some real snub .38 chrono results.
Really appreciate your videos.
You and your team are the best at what you do…
Thank you Sir
Very informative as usual! Thanks!
Fantastic video - completely thorough and informative. Thank you, Paul
Great presentation, thanks Paul. I’m always amazed at how far back you stand from your sky screen to test ammo MV. I have no personal experience doing that, but have observed a couple fellow gun club members over the years testing their reloads, with the sky screen set up about 12” in front of the bench. I admire your steady marksmanship with all the different rifles and pistols you test. Especially the snub nosed revolver ammo tested on this video. Expert level shooting, bravo!
Why doesn't he set the sky screen closer?
Wondered that, myself. When I’m warmed up, at my best, I could put rounds thru those wires at 7-10 yards,,,, most of the time. But I’ve got to admit, I pitch a flyer a few inches out there, now and then. I would not attempt firing a snub nosed .38 revolver, thru those wires, from 10 yards out.
@@kirk2767 I think the idea is that since the average distance for self defense shootings is 7 yards (according to the FBI) he is testing the ammos velocity at a practical use distance. So this way the number he gets are what would really be transferred to the target. Same as him shooting the meat target from 7 yards
According to my fuzzy memory of an explanation given by an old timer, if you are too close to the chrono unburned and still burning powder can mess up the results.
That said, not sure why Paul shoots from 21 feet except for the aforementioned notion of getting data at "typical self defense distances."
I use an old Pact 1 Chrono that has worked perfectly for 30 years. I usually set the screens 5 yards in front of the firing point for handguns and smaller caliber rifles and about 7-10 yards for larger centerfire rifles.
The muzzle blast can cause a lot of error readings if it is closer. The Pact locates only the skyscreens downrange, the expensive part stays safely on the bench with the shooter. Newer models may be more resistant to muzzle blast. 🤷♂
You can mathematically correct for muzzle velocity easily enough...if you want to split that hair. I don't.
As a handloader I am not necessarily trying to squeeze the last foot-per-second out of a load. I want consistency. Low standard deviation and ES. I'll trade 20, 30, 50 fps average velocity for single digit fps SD any day of the week.
Thanks for this video on 38 special ammunition. My daughter carries a Taurus 856 model 2” snub 38 special and we found for her firearm the HCD +P 110 is the most accurate with her non adjustable sights and performs well with expansion compared to other hollow points we’ve shot and doesn’t tend to have a lot of over penetration.
Thank you for this and many other videos.
I do learn from them quite often.
Great video. Thanks Paul!
I find it great that Paul designs his efforts and logic so that it can be followed by people in a different situations to him and still achieve a concise, useful outcome.
Well done Paul.. Who could possibly not like this man's videos? Such an honest, neutral, well delivered and thought out dose of information.
I'm going home tonite and dig out my I believe 642 Smith, and 158SP +P and give the springfield some time off.
Great as always Paul. Thank you sir!🤠
I am now rewatching all of Paul's videos learn something new every time!
Seeing the differences in target placement of the various calibers/configuration, in my mind is invaluable in selecting ammunition for each handgun. Riveting presentation!
This was an absolute amazing video Paul. I can't imagine the hours it took to do this and the money spent to show the results. Thank you for the hard work sir and giving us a modern look at the timeless 38.
I appreciate the detail and effort put into this .38 special snub nose saga 👍🏻 thanks for the content
Very informative video Paul. Thank you!!
Very well prepared video. I consider 38 Special a very viable option for self defence and your tests and evaluation along with conclusions are much needed here. Really appreciate your work.
Very timely video! Having only carried auto loaders, my wife and I recently each bought Taurus 856 .38sp revolvers…because we didn’t have one! Turns out, we both shoot them better than our Shield 9mm. As I carry my safety-less Shield+ with one in the pipe AIWB, the revolver has a built-in safety of a more difficult trigger pull. The Taurus may take the place of my beloved Shield.
Hopefully you got a good 856. I purchased one that must have been made on Friday night. After about 30 rounds thru it, the cylinder would not lock up. There is a spring and a pin that controls the lock up part. Spring was a weak batch that Taurus new about (so I hear). They sent me a new spring and pin and it works now, but my EDC is a sp101. Night and day quality difference compared to the Taurus, I will not trust the 856 as an EDC.
Hello Paul you provide such great and useful information on all your videos! Thank you so very much.
Really enjoyed this vlog Paul. Thanks
Another entertaining and educational video. Although J-frames are not for everyone, over the years I have probably carried one more miles than any other firearm. They certainly have their advantages and, I believe, are underrated. Thank you Paul.
Great video. I was disappointed that we didn’t get to see the Gold Dot against the meat target. It was designed specifically for snub-nosed revolvers.
Another great... Well produced.. and we'll thought out video for us... Thanks again
Always outstanding and informative keep up the good work Mr. Harrell. Sorry about Oregon's 114 coming up, much luck from WA.
"Today's presentation will be tedious and dry." That means to me it should be enjoyable. Paul, I love your video presentations. As a Vietnam vet, I know what your CIB represents.
Never considered a .38 video all that big a deal, but it was fascinating watching your material as always, Paul, and that really was a lot of great info and of course great presentation. Thanks again
Paul is the BEST! I always learn something in his videos.
Thank you for this vid! Happened to obtain a beautiful Model 36 "Chief's Special" (on recommendation of Chief of Police Cousin) back when everybody just HAD to have a .44 Magnum. Thanks to your vid, I can narrow down the better ammo to use for CC.
Watching Mr. Harrell videos, I always learn valuable information and this was no exception. I personally carry a S&W J Frame model 60 with a 3" barrel and this ammunition comparison was eye opening. Your data will help with my future ammo purchases. Thank you Professor Harrell, you are most appreciated.
Why do so few people carry 3” j frames? I love mine. The 3” 357 sp 101 is just too painful to train with. It never comes out of the safe since I bought the smith. The only reason for a barrel shorter than 3” is an ankle holster. Does anyone still use ankle holsters? I haven’t had mine on in decades.
Paul.. you are AWESOME !!! Thank you for fantastic info ! 👍 👌 👍
Your analysis and breakdowns of different information and data points is relaxing to me for some reason.
Really do appreciate the "tedious" details Paul. I have a .38 spl snub nose Charter Arms 'Undercover'. I say valuable information provided considering I probably wouldn't shoot +P from mine although it has been stated in reliable literature that I could. My C.A. 38 spl was made in 1967.
Anyhow, I'm what you call a dedicated listener and thanks for making this .38 special conceal carry ammunition video !
Thank you for today's demo Paul, very informative as well as well thought out. I appreciate your knowledge and the fact you are willing to to share your knowledge with us. ''Practice on the range with your weapon of choice''... I find when I go out to Practice in my neck of the woods, I first have to cleanup after selfish gun owners that are very good at practicing and NOT so good at the cleanup after practice. What happened to the old saying "leave it better then you found it"...... maybe you can provide another demo in the future in regards to cleanup such as preparation before going to range, maintaining while practicing for easier cleanup and leaving it better then you found it. Would be nice one day to go practice and only have to maintain my mess. Thanks for all you do 👍
Thank you for another great video! I always learn a ton of helpful information from your content! The Hornady +p is my summer carry load in my snub nose.
Possibly put the box of the chosen ammo in the foreground on the table.
Thanks again, you’re the best! I learn something every time.
This was above and beyond. Thank you
I too carry a 638 more often than any other gun I own for concealed carry. Of all the ammunition I have tried 110 +p PPU ( loaded with hornady ftx bullets from the factory) hit exactly where the non adjustable sights are.
Great video Mr. Harrell. Keep em coming.
You killed me with the “Joe Friday” days comment! Man I still love Adam-12! I am glad that Adam 12, .38 Special, and revolvers are still topics in 2022. My favorite carry is a S&W Chiefs Special in .38. Just like Joe’s!
I carry a model 637 Smith regularly. Your video has helped reinforce my choice of the Hornady 110 Critical Defense ammo for carry. As always, I enjoy the honest, unbiased, information from each of your videos. Thank you.
Excellent presentation thank you for your time posting this information.
I was really looking forward to seeing that gold dot ammo on the meat target. Maybe that was in an earlier presentation? It seems like the gold dot often, but not always, performs well.
Thanks so much for testing these 38 spl. Would have loved to see the GD 135 +P in the meat target, but the grocery needs some meat for food. As someone below commented, the Hornady CD seems to be a good round in several calibers, maybe not the very best but good. Also, thanks for using a snub .38. So many testers use longer-barreled guns that what are most frequently actually carried.
Excellent, as usual! Thank you.
i appreciate what this guy brings to the table. its real. and i really need content like this
Well done, Paul. I have carried several loads in my SW638: FBI Load, BuffBore/Underwood FBInuclear loads, and others. I finally landed on the Fed 148gr tgt wadcutter. For me in my SW638, POI~POA at typical SD ranges, it has minimal recoil, and it is more accurate than any of the other cartridges I tried.
I use WCs in all my snubbies.
What is more important than accuracy?
That target wc is exactly what the fbi used to have when they carried snubs. Picked up a bunch from an fbi range master
Thank you Paul! The tedious and dry parts are my favorite.
very good informative video as usual quality stuff, Paul.
Best video on subject of .38 SPL carry ammo and Snubnose revolver!
Thank you Mr. Harrell .
I carry a Colt Agent, and not knowing if it is rated for higher pressure rounds, I use the green & yellow round lead nose, which is very soft lead.
Am fortunate that I haven't needed to "test their effectiveness" on a "meat target" of my own, but am confident that they would perform sufficiently.
Thank you Paul, for the investment of time, money, and effort, to help the rest of us make better informed decisions, and for lightening-up a serious subject.
Your Agent is rated for Plus P use by Colt. If I remember right, Colt does recommend that their alloy frame 38's be inspected after 1000 rounds of the Plus P loads are fired through the revolver.
I've missed you Paul. There is no one quite like you!! The analysis you do is unique to you. In my judgement. I don't find your tests to be tedious. There is subtle humor in almost everything you do, please keep doing it this way.
Also, there are ballot measures coming up in Oregon about the 2A-- any thoughts?
Out-freakin-standing video. Thank you for this.
appreciate your commitment to quality info!
An excellent video, as always.
My choice of carry ammo in my j-frame is currently based on what I have the most of. Or, I should say, the second most of: some older 125 gr Silvertip +P rounds. I have those right now as what I have the most of is Federal +p 158 gr Nyclad LSWCHPs (my old PD's old issue .38 ammo), and the Silvertip is a little less unpleasant to crank off from an airweight snubby.
I was looking at those Hornady Critical Defense rounds for when I run out of or retire those Silvertips. Looks like they might be just the ticket if my gun likes them.
Excellent video as always Paul. My favorite gun is my 70s Detective Special and I carry it with standard pressure Hornady CDs because I want it to last. Of my selection of carry guns it has the fastest draw and ties with my PPK/s for best natural point aim, so I don't feel under gunned without +P ammo.
If I have to go somewhere where I am at more risk than normal in my small town, the big city for example, I always bring my commander 1911 and it's Hornady Critical Duty 45s.
I foolishly sold my last Detective Special to a collector and now wish I hadn't. I carried them as my ankle gun for all the years I served as a police officer. Truth be known I think the Colt Detective Special, or something like it is almost perfect for the person who does not go in harm's way on purpose or to make a living. A six shot snub covers the kind of thing that actually happens to private citizens as opposed to what they think will happen. I also can't argue with your selection of a "heavy gun" either. I got my first Commander used when I had just graduated high school almost 50 years ago and have owned one ever since. Stay safe. Love your screen name!
I have pre, and post 72 DSs, COBRAs and AGENTs and love them. and mostly shhot wadcutters in them (and carry) as well as hornady cd standard pressure. never felt undergunned, even when using them for work.
@@PPISAFETY thank you for the kind words. I have found that I also favor the 1911 in winter when people are wearing heavier clothing.
Thank you for the great video! I carry the critical defense 110 grain in my Sp101. Now I have even more confidence in that round.
Excellent video as always. Glad to see that my chosen load, after a considerable amount of research, for 38 snubbies (Hornady CD 110gr +P) acquitted itself pretty well in the meat targets, thanks.
I would have liked to see the Gold Dot 130, against the meat target. Oh well great video as usual.
Speer 135 grain Gold Dot jacketed hollow point Plus P, but yeah.
Great info. I carry a Ruger sp101 - 3 inch - 357. Only holds 5 rounds but I have never felt under-gunned. I love my 357 rounds but with arthritis I need to carry 38 special in it on occasion. Having the option is great and the accuracy is great with either round.
I have a SP-101 3” and love it. I use Remington green and white box 125 grain semi jacketed hollow points in it for carry. Unless I’m trail walking in which I then use 162 grain SWC gas check handloads with 2400 or IMR 4227 powders for 1283fps average from a 3”. For high volume practice I use that SWC at 800 fps using 38 special brass and unique powder. Also I’m with you on it holding 5 rounds being plenty.
Have it also.
I carried a Ruger 357 SP101 several years back. My carry load was the Remington 110gr jacketed hollow point 357. That load is considered a 3/4 magnum load. Or, a 38 Plus P Plus load basically. The recoil is much less with these rounds compared to heavier weight magnum loads. And , as a plus, my local shop back then sold a box of 50 of them for around $15. Sure miss those days !
As an old school who should've stayed
in school . Thanks for the work you put
in for this one. And the comments are
informative as well. Well done
i have truly enjoyed this presentation
If I switch from my 327 Fed Mags and carry my 357 SP101 I load with Federal HST 38 but due to the wadcutter profile I carry Gold Dot 357 in my speedloaders. My friend and I tested this in our meat target variation we call the New England meat target because we use a Carhartt barn coat for the outer covering. But the 38 HST performed impressively in our testing.