Thanks for the comment! When I was doing my research for this I found a link to a Death Mark page (minmax.gg) that listed Stun Grenade as a contributor for Death Mark. Unfortunately even the Wiki itself states that this is not the case! A little embarrassing on my end, but luckily I put it low enough that another couple spots down isn't too much of a change.
@@tadferd4340I scrap it always unless I get it on stage 5. It can stun perfected lunar chimera, so I always bring them to commencement if I have no way to skip pillars.
I think that Medkit when stacked a bit (5 stacks is already a good number) becomes one of, if not, the best healing item, it only has a 2 second delay, as opposed to Slug or Shield Generator's SEVEN second delay before beginning to regenerate, as well as being based on your MAX health (5% per stack) meaning that it allows you to bounce back very quickly after hard hits and even makes Aegis a worthwile pickup
Thanks for the comment! You bring up a good point! Yea I think Medkit has some uses in health-stacking builds in Monsoon and below. As someone that does play mostly on Eclipse where healing isn't very valuable, I like to only have one healing item that has a lot of individual power (Slug or Wungus) than stack a different one. Medkit also has the issue of being unable to deal with the Eclipse 1 modifier of starting each stage with half health. You need to take additional damage before you get any healing at all, which can be a dicey proposition at best.
@@TooFewSecrets That is annoying, but as far as I'm aware getting items back from Mithrix on phase four is related to total damage dealt, not the state of his healthbar, meaning that even if he heals you'll still eventually get your items back.
As a somewhat new player to the game (just getting into eclipse) I am a HUGE fan of attack speed. Most items which deal extra damage have a chance to activate per hit. More hits = more procs = more damage
You seem like a guy who play mainly on eclipse, and as a person who started playing eclipse about a couple months ago. This is a good tier list, I can really agree with a lot of things here
Thanks for the comment! I do mainly play on Eclipse (with the exception of when I play with others who aren't comfortable with the game mode). There was actually a comment I responded to a few days ago who called me out for being biased in this way. With that said though, I think that this tier list is beneficial no matter what difficulty is used. The options and tactics that work on Eclipse are guaranteed to work on lower difficulties! The same is not true in reverse unfortunately.
honestly, I love the fireworks. The first time i defeated Mithrix was with the caffeinator + fireworks strar. Whenever I pick one up I'm always tempted to do that strat again.
Thanks for the comment! It is a really cool strat, and I wish there more opportunities to do things like that. Unfortunately that's pretty much it, which makes pulling it off hard without a lot of loops, but that doesn't make it any less cool.
Cautious Slug is by far the best "healing" item if you're playing Void Fiend as it provides extra health regeneration *not* healing, allowing you to more readily manage your corruption level whereas something like Wungus will decrease it while you run making it much more difficult to control the healing since youre running like 90% of the time in ROR2.
My buddies and I had this huge argument why healing isn’t good, and they refused to listen about why transcendence just makes every single healing item and ability just pointless.
Even though I play on the medium difficulty, I'd argue that medkit is pretty good Lots of enemies (if not every) have one or two attacks that deal small chunks of damage. So these attacks trigger the medkit, and if you have a couple, it can be pretty clutch First time I killed mythrix it saved my life a lot. So honestly I'd give it a B. You need to have at least 3 to actually be very good, but it is such a relief to see your health bar suddenly filling up
I think the value of healing items scales inversely with skill. The better you are at dodging attacks, the less you need healing. I'm not saying I'm a god at the game, but I do feel pretty comfortable running 0 or 1 healing item per run. I think if you find success with it though, that's great!
bunger as a void fiend player, i actually find that the cautious slug is super useful, as its effect counts as regeneration, as opposed to external healing. this makes it so that the fiend can heal somewhat consistently without sacrificing it’s corruption
I think gas should be in the A tier especially based on the way you described it. Everyone underrates this item and I have no idea why. Just want to say it has a 12 meter radius at base. It doesn’t scale with other items but is still a whopping 300% base damage with a single stack. That should be enough to bring most generic monsters to 2/3 with only one proc. I treat it just like soda, sure goats hoof is better typically but not really if you only have like 1-2. Even if you can’t scrap one that you pick up early it’s still going to snowball you to make up for the deficit. Also it may not scale with other items but other items help you kill stuff faster witch indeed makes this item better.
Thanks for the comment! The issue isn't just that gas doesn't scale with other items; it doesn't even scale with itself. Stacking Gasoline is pretty bad unless you have a ton of Ignition tanks and/or are running a FMP build. Having one Gasoline is awesome! Having more than one is wasted items in my opinion. Also for Goat Hoof it is actually 100% better than Energy Drink all of the time. The way sprinting multiplies movement speed means that Goat Hoof's effective sprinting speed increase is more than Energy Drink. Then on top of that Goat Hoof increases all movespeed, not just when sprinting.
@@PopeCharlesIV basically what I’m getting at is an item with 1 stack that’s really good is a really good item. But yeah A B basically the same. Just that it’s less situational than other B items. And that’s pretty interesting with goat hood and soda. Would you sprint faster with 1 soda 1 hoof or 2 hoof?
@@dwbryant13 As far as I'm aware, Goat Hooves are just always better than Energy Drink. I can't confirm that they don't work better together though. There are a lot of items in this game that multiply together far stronger than stacking them individually.
Thanks for the comment! That's an interesting strategy for sure. Blood shrines are powerful early much like you say. I think they're more a detriment than anything else on Eclipse 8 though. Permanent damage on each stage is a brutal consequence for a few kills worth of gold.
@@khongbiettuc7445 I enjoy Eclipse a lot because it gives the game a bit of extra challenge and I enjoy forcing myself to learn and adapt, but a huge limitation of Eclipse is that it limits builds and strategies. When I rate items I try to keep in mind that while everything that works on Eclipse 8 will work on lower difficulties, the converse is not always true. That shouldn't stop anyone from executing those strategies where they're still good though!
I think this tierlist only maybe holds for Eclipse, where healing is way less effective and damage prevention/mitigation is more valuable. If you're saying this applies to monsoon - oh boy I've got a lot of criticisms. Most notably, I think healing is really low on this tierlist. Medkit is crazy low (should be A tier imo) - the only requirement for its healing is "take damage" and it heals a decent chunk, esp in the early game. Monster tooth is also a decent item for early game or melee survivors (maybe like a B tier) although it does fall off. Like it or not, you WILL take damage and in monsoon passive regen is worthless. You have to have healing items or you'll get whittled down eventually. This is also why I think elixirs are too high, they become less than useless if you get hit and aren't stacking watches. I think tougher times and opal might be _slightly_ overvalued, but I think shield gen is way too far up there. It's basically a bison steak that can't be healed. Not _horrible_ since it is percentage based, but only marginally useful (outside of plasma shrimp). Finally, I want to make the case for gasoline. It's a workhorse item - it doesn't carry your run but it provides good AoE and many survivors struggle with that. It can also proc death mark and scales extremely well. I think it deserves to be bumped up to A.
I do focus on Eclipse because every strategy that works on Eclipse also works on Monsoon and below. The converse is not true though: strategies that work on lower difficulties won't necessarily work on Eclipse. I don't have a whole lot to say about your criticisms. They seem fair and tailored for your playstyle, which is a good thing! I will say that shields are massive underrated in general though. Transcendence is one of the best items in the game (and one of my favorites). By extension, PSG is also quite good.
@@PopeCharlesIV Fair enough, although I do wish you'd pointed that out at the beginning! I'll give shields a second chance. There's probably something to be said for the idea that a shield build requires very few healing items.
Your view on items is interestingly biased. A major down point for a lot of items is "It requires you to get hit so it is bad, also just don't get hit." Yet Cautious Slug is a worse Medkit and Opal literally requires you to get hit. Potions are literally this but used up and gone forever. Just don't get hit. You will get hit though and that is why Opal and Tougher Times is so powerful or Potions are a must with Watch. Time for a few simple combos. Medkit + Roll of Pennies to intentionally gain money, more effective on weak blazing enemies. 9 Medkits + Rejuv is a practical full heal. (90% + 1-shot protection) Stealth Kit helps ensure survival. Medkits + Opal + Safer Spaces requires you to get hit 4 times relatively fast to die. Stealth Kit makes you near invincible. Tougher Times if you have enough will replace Safer Spaces. These aren't fancy but these simple white items can make you literally near immortal.
Thanks for the comment! I really do enjoy when people engage in conversation here even if it is to call me out about an opinion of mine. I was actually talking to someone the other day about items and how I'm biased towards certain ones, and I think a large part of my bias comes from the fact that I exclusively play on Eclipse. This has a large impact on how I view a variety of things about the game but I think two are important here: healing is atrocious past Eclipse 5, and the value gained from healing is increasingly diminished the more you get hit on Eclipse 8. The result is that I think healing items are pretty useless in general, but more importantly CONDITIONAL healing (Medkit, Monster Tooth, etc.) is both unreliable and impotent compared to unconditional healing like Wungus (Void item tierlist coming soon :)) and Cautious Slug. Consider just the Eclipse 1 modifier. Medkit will only help you if you continue to get hit, while Cautious Slug will not only heal up the detriment from the modifier, but it also lets you run away from enemies to heal up if you take a hit in combat. Secondarily, because healing value is further diminished the more damage taken on Eclipse 8, DAMAGE PREVENTION becomes infinitely more valuable than healing. This is why Tougher Times and Opal are rated highly. I'm sure you can deduce from this reasoning that items like Rose Buckler and Safer Spaces will also be rated highly in my opinion. While I love this game to death, I do think it has flaws and this healing nerf on Eclipse is one of them. Healing and self-damage can lead to some really interesting builds like with Planula, Hellfire Tincture, and Razorwire, or the ones you mentioned like with Medkit and Pennies. It also unfortunately invalidates all but the very best healing items. While someone that only plays on Monsoon and below won't have this problem, it's one that I encounter because of how I play the game.
I’m gonna be honest I think bungus is C. On eclipse 5+ your natural regeneration is ass, and if you don’t get any healing drones on stage 1 healing can be very hard to come by. So getting a bungus is not that bad, since if you have some downtime you can get back some hp. Better than fresh meat at least imo. Gas is A for me, having aoe on certain survivors like bandit is huge. Focus Crystal would either be B or A since almost all survivors can benefit from it. Staying close is honestly really important imo. The only survivor who doesn’t want it is railgunner. Also, repulsion armor is S imo. On eclipse 8 it can stop certain attacks from permanently lowering your hp, including blood pillar. Personally I think barrier sucks, so I’d put topaz brooch in B or C. Also stun grenades don’t count for death mark. Still C tho. Overall, I do largely agree. Good video :)
Thanks for the comment! I don't really like Bungus even on Eclipse 5+ because it's so easy to get a Cautious Slug and the Slug is just better. Also standing still to regen health really grates on me personally because it feels like time waste. I do agree that it's better than Meat though! Gasoline can definitely be a contender for A. I might have tunneled a little too hard on its value for Mithrix and Voidling and overlooked how helpful it is going through stages. Focus Crystal on the other hand I don't agree with. Even on Acrid I find myself often being too far away to get value out of it. I just don't like standing that close to enemies. It feels like a high-risk-low-reward game that way. The thing that prevents Repulsion Armor from being S tier for me is that it confers damage reduction instead of armor. A flat 5 damage reduction just isn't that good. It has its uses of course, and the blood pillars on Commencement is a good one that I should have mentioned, but flat damage reduction loses its value really quickly compared to armor. Barrier does suck in general, but I'd still rather have the Brooch than some other defensive items like Meat or Bungus. Killing a crowd of wisps with Gasoline or something and getting an extra 200 health is non-trivial and can feel pretty satisfying too. And for Stun Grenade another commenter told me that it doesn't count for Death Mark a while back and I pinned that comment. Thanks for letting me know though!
@@PopeCharlesIV Bandit (and Loader but Loader doesn't even need the damage) is the only character that can really get value from focus crystal I think. Even with stealth magdumping a boss from that close isn't really safe though.
@@TooFewSecrets Replace Bandit with Merc and I 100% agree with you. Actually I think Merc is the best user of Focus Crystal specifically with the standard loadout because all of his damage occurs right next to the enemy.
I don't think it's controversial to say that she can't take advantage of bleed in comparison to survivors like Huntress, Commando, Captain, or Engineer.
I feel like having at least 5 gasolines will make your run broken, with one of the green items that multiplies gasoline damage by 4. by itself its meh, but can easily be really good.
I don't understand the Sticky bomb hate, if you get a bunch of them, wouldnt it do more damage than crit glasses? I think it scales off of total damage
Thanks for the comment! An image of the whole list is in the description of every one of these videos in case you want to reference it without rewatching the whole video.
i'm not that kind of player whose interest is defeating enemies at lighspeed, and usually the huge enemy quantity that can kill me is sudden, not because i kill too slow, so tri tip dagger would be S even if i am Loader or railgun, not because it doesn't work as well as mul-T's nail gun but because it is good enough if you can keep the debuff 24/7 not if you can ramp up quickly as sudden swarming kills me not killing to slow and enemies pile up
text walls part two APR isnt deserving of S tier simply because bosses are kinda too easy compared to normal enemies? The only bosses presenting a challenge are Hordes of Many (which are just monsters), Voidling (because adding strong homing on a shotgun attack is a really great idea hopoo thanks) and Overloading Worms (which appear hyper-late or if youre based and activate three mountain shrines stage 5). None are in the "balancing zone" as noted by hopoo (they only balance according to preloop experience) Backup Mag doesn't deserve to be above low B. You'd think having an extra charge of an ability sounds cool until you realise that you will only get one additional ability use per teleporter. You do not recharge both charges, you charge them one by one. If it's a charging ability like Artificer's Nanobomb, the cooldown stops until you cast the orb. You'd really prefer that single additional grapple over the 20% damage buff? Or that one Phase Blast? Yeah, doubt that. Brooch? A? Great joke. It's 15 FLAT barrrier, the only thing it scales with is how much stacks you have. Yes, early game it's king, but go past stage 2 and you'll see how awful it is. That 15 barrier is going to vanish IMMEDIATELY after getting it, since barrier decay scales with your max health (6.66% maxhp/s to be exact). You'll either need to pile up a huge stack of enemies, or have an FMP with multiple broaches so you can keep up the barrier going. Instead of having those five broaches, why not have five watches instead? That's double the damage. Stun Grenade definitely deserves better. Keep one or two on the characters that hit a bunch, and suddenly normal enemies are no longer a threat when you're looking at them. Obviously, won't do much on characters like Loader who hits once and the enemy dies.
I rated APR with the expectation of finishing a fight at Mithrix or the Voidling, who both have high enough healthpools to make stacking damage important. Especially the Voidling who has a ridiculous amount of health. I don't know what you're talking about with "one charge per teleporter" because that's just not true. Each charge regenerates independently. On survivors where they're gated by cooldowns more than anything else (Artificer can get stuck waiting for charges of her M1 and M2 for example, and Railgunner gets an extra shot without reloading), the DPS uptime is worth a lot. Obviously it's worth less on someone like Captain because his M2 is terrible. I don't disagree that Brooch is useless compared to high-tier damage items like Watches and Glasses, but compared to other white defensive items like Medkit and Bungus, the Brooch blows them out of the water. The ultimate goal is to scrap them before Mithrix, so if you want to say I should have put it a tier lower based on that behavior, that's fine, but I don't think there's any argument that Brooch isn't one of the better white defensive items especially for the first two stages. Stun grenade is dogwater lol.
@@PopeCharlesIV " Each charge regenerates independently." Yeah, if you're letting them charge up. Would you intentionally not use your ability on the teleporter just to shoot it out twice? That just sounds dumb. Again, charges recharge one by one, one cooldown after the other, not independently. "but compared to other white defensive items like Medkit and Bungus, the Brooch blows them out of the water" On stage 1 and 2. After that, you've scaled your hp by levelling too much and brooches are just not worth keeping. "Stun grenade is dogwater lol." Literally wrong go use it more. Anyone who thinks Stun Grenade sucks pretty much never actually tried it out.
@@obeeked1385 I wrote out a longer response but Windows decided to restart and erase it so unfortunately you're going to get the abridged version. Backup Mag does recharge independently and you get the extra charges through the whole game, not just teleporter events. As I previously mentioned, DPS uptime is really important and a few survivors benefit massively from it. I never said Brooch was always worth keeping, I said it can be useful on your way to Mithrix and it should be scrapped before you get there. Compared to other defensive items in the tier, it is still better than pretty much every single one aside from Tougher Times and Cautious Slug. Stun Grenade is garbage because the only things I would actually want to stun are immune to the debuff. I don't care about stunning Greater Wisps and Stone Golems. I want to stun Stone Titans and Vagrants. To be honest I should have put it lower on this list because it can't even proc Death Mark. Top of scrapper tier at best.
@@PopeCharlesIV windows L+Ratiod you tbh True, but you wouldn't benefit from those charges more than any other item in A/S. Yeah, but again - the only time you get benefit from it is really early (stage 1-2) or if you intentionally gimp yourself and print off a bunch of items into brooches (only applicable to awful rng runs). You wouldn't prioritize any defensive item over an offensive one. I think you're missing the point where the only actually dangerous bosses are the final bosses and hordes of many (not including oworm since you usually don't encounter it). No other boss has a dangerous enough attack you'd want it stunned. You're underestimating how much more dangerous being swarmed by normal enemies is compared to a boss existing. Let me make an example. (we will allow stun nade to stun bosses) You start the teleporter. You meet a Grandparent. But a Elite Elder Lemurian also spawns in. Would you still prioritize hitting the boss? Or would you charge your priority? For me (and for many, many others) the EEL is a much higher threat compared to any boss. Or an Elite Brass Contraption. And other enemies that can easily pack a punch. Would you keep trying to down the boss, knowing there is an enemy capable of near-instantly ending your run?
@@obeeked1385 That's why Backup Mag is at the bottom of A tier. Everything above it is more useful, but that doesn't mean it's bad. Yes I agree you should never prioritize defensive items over damage unless the defensive items are top-tier like Opal, Safer Spaces, or Rose Buckler. That's fine and all but what item would you give up for Stun Grenade? Glasses? Tri-Tip? Syringe? Even Stick Bomb is more useful for taking down enemies before they can hurt you. Even if you think the effect from Stun Grenade is super valuable, the opportunity cost of other items is just not worth it.
Good list but I'm really not a fan of any form of, "you shouldn't be getting hit" or "don't get hit" logic. You will get hit. It's just inevitable. Preparing to get hit is just as important as avoiding it.
I always invite people to play how they like! Fun is the name of the game, after all. With that said, idolizing not getting hit is how I choose to play. I prioritize movement speed and damage and trust that my skill is good enough. It's a high-risk play style, but it's high-reward and enjoyable.
i think you're a bit biased against healing specifically because you're a big eclipse player. you keep saying healing isn't that valuable especially in high eclipse levels, the truth is healing is only not that valuable in high eclipse levels. in the base game and in eclipse 1-4 healing is incredibly strong.
I think shields are always better than health. I pick up Transcendence every time I see it. Also Sticky Bombs are one of the worst damage items in the game. It's like bleed without the damage and with 1/2 the proc chance.
@@PopeCharlesIV not really because its total damage so late game its way stronger than a lotta other whites. Its not better than glasses and watches, but its a better pick than focus crystal on ranges survivors
@@seanstroodle4418 I'll be honest, I hadn't crunched the numbers on it before. I did a simple mental heuristic to check how good it is. After crunching the numbers, one Sticky Bomb is roughly a 5-10% damage increase, assuming that the bomb doesn't explode after the target dies. This is definitely far better than I expected and I shouldn't have put it as low as I did in the tier list. Thanks for bringing this to my attention!
@@PopeCharlesIV fun fact, stickies used to be literally god tier because the used to increase damage as well as chance on every stack and it was linear scaling, too so just a few stickies was an enormous damage boost.
bustling fungus is good. Sorry focus crystal is good on acrid? But bad in general? Huh? PERSONAL SHIELD GENERATOR A TIER???? Ok i dont think you understand the game that much
They do stack together in the same manner that all damage buffs in RoR2 stack, meaning that having one of both is always going to be more damage than having two of one.
The «stun» effect doesn’t apply the death mark damage amp, so stun grenade is pure garbage
Thanks for the comment!
When I was doing my research for this I found a link to a Death Mark page (minmax.gg) that listed Stun Grenade as a contributor for Death Mark. Unfortunately even the Wiki itself states that this is not the case! A little embarrassing on my end, but luckily I put it low enough that another couple spots down isn't too much of a change.
@@PopeCharlesIV Yea it's totally reasonable to think it would work with death mark, and there isn't that many good sources for info on certain items
A single Stun Grenade has value against more dangerous trash enemies like Greater Lumerians. It still Scrap fodder but it's not useless.
Stun is great on melee, saved me plenty of times in a Merc run
@@tadferd4340I scrap it always unless I get it on stage 5. It can stun perfected lunar chimera, so I always bring them to commencement if I have no way to skip pillars.
I think that Medkit when stacked a bit (5 stacks is already a good number) becomes one of, if not, the best healing item, it only has a 2 second delay, as opposed to Slug or Shield Generator's SEVEN second delay before beginning to regenerate, as well as being based on your MAX health (5% per stack) meaning that it allows you to bounce back very quickly after hard hits and even makes Aegis a worthwile pickup
Thanks for the comment!
You bring up a good point! Yea I think Medkit has some uses in health-stacking builds in Monsoon and below. As someone that does play mostly on Eclipse where healing isn't very valuable, I like to only have one healing item that has a lot of individual power (Slug or Wungus) than stack a different one. Medkit also has the issue of being unable to deal with the Eclipse 1 modifier of starting each stage with half health. You need to take additional damage before you get any healing at all, which can be a dicey proposition at best.
The only real issue is it can make Mithrix 4 invincible if you can't chip it off him.
@@TooFewSecrets That is annoying, but as far as I'm aware getting items back from Mithrix on phase four is related to total damage dealt, not the state of his healthbar, meaning that even if he heals you'll still eventually get your items back.
It essentially becomes planula with a delay
Drizzle behavior
As a somewhat new player to the game (just getting into eclipse) I am a HUGE fan of attack speed. Most items which deal extra damage have a chance to activate per hit. More hits = more procs = more damage
Syringe and Mocha are hands-down some of the best items in the entire game.
You seem like a guy who play mainly on eclipse, and as a person who started playing eclipse about a couple months ago. This is a good tier list, I can really agree with a lot of things here
Thanks for the comment!
I do mainly play on Eclipse (with the exception of when I play with others who aren't comfortable with the game mode). There was actually a comment I responded to a few days ago who called me out for being biased in this way.
With that said though, I think that this tier list is beneficial no matter what difficulty is used. The options and tactics that work on Eclipse are guaranteed to work on lower difficulties! The same is not true in reverse unfortunately.
honestly, I love the fireworks. The first time i defeated Mithrix was with the caffeinator + fireworks strar. Whenever I pick one up I'm always tempted to do that strat again.
Thanks for the comment!
It is a really cool strat, and I wish there more opportunities to do things like that. Unfortunately that's pretty much it, which makes pulling it off hard without a lot of loops, but that doesn't make it any less cool.
S- AP Rounds, Delicate Watch, Energy Drink, LM's Glasses, Mocha, Oddly Shaped Opal, Goat Hoof, Rusted Key, Tougher Times
A- Backup Mag, Cautious Slug, Crowbar, PSG, Power Elixir, Syringe, Topaz Broach, TT Dagger
B- Gas, Repulsion Armor, Sticky bomb
C- Fireworks, Focus Crystal, Stun Grenade, War Banner
D/Scrap- Meat, Bungus, Med Kit, Monster Tooth, Pennies
Sticky Bomb is actually around a 10% damage increase per stack and is a lot better than I gave it credit for in this video.
thanks
Cautious Slug is by far the best "healing" item if you're playing Void Fiend as it provides extra health regeneration *not* healing, allowing you to more readily manage your corruption level whereas something like Wungus will decrease it while you run making it much more difficult to control the healing since youre running like 90% of the time in ROR2.
Slug stays winning.
As someone who is addicted to movement speed, I would like to state that this list is legit.
Thanks!
Before 200 subs gang! Can’t wait to watch you and your channel grow!
Thanks for the comment and the kinds words! It really means a lot to get such positive feedback.
Movement speed is my very first priority. For stage 1 and 2, I'll honestly take speed over damage any time.
Absolutely agreed. It's too important for avoiding taking damage and it just makes the game feel better.
My buddies and I had this huge argument why healing isn’t good, and they refused to listen about why transcendence just makes every single healing item and ability just pointless.
Yea I agree. Transcendence is easily my favorite item in the game. It makes higher Eclipse levels so much easier.
Even though I play on the medium difficulty, I'd argue that medkit is pretty good
Lots of enemies (if not every) have one or two attacks that deal small chunks of damage. So these attacks trigger the medkit, and if you have a couple, it can be pretty clutch
First time I killed mythrix it saved my life a lot. So honestly I'd give it a B.
You need to have at least 3 to actually be very good, but it is such a relief to see your health bar suddenly filling up
I think the value of healing items scales inversely with skill. The better you are at dodging attacks, the less you need healing. I'm not saying I'm a god at the game, but I do feel pretty comfortable running 0 or 1 healing item per run. I think if you find success with it though, that's great!
bunger
as a void fiend player, i actually find that the cautious slug is super useful, as its effect counts as regeneration, as opposed to external healing. this makes it so that the fiend can heal somewhat consistently without sacrificing it’s corruption
Thanks for the comment!
This is a nice little optimization I didn't know about but I'll definitely be thinking about on my future Void Fiend runs.
I think gas should be in the A tier especially based on the way you described it. Everyone underrates this item and I have no idea why. Just want to say it has a 12 meter radius at base. It doesn’t scale with other items but is still a whopping 300% base damage with a single stack. That should be enough to bring most generic monsters to 2/3 with only one proc. I treat it just like soda, sure goats hoof is better typically but not really if you only have like 1-2. Even if you can’t scrap one that you pick up early it’s still going to snowball you to make up for the deficit. Also it may not scale with other items but other items help you kill stuff faster witch indeed makes this item better.
Thanks for the comment!
The issue isn't just that gas doesn't scale with other items; it doesn't even scale with itself. Stacking Gasoline is pretty bad unless you have a ton of Ignition tanks and/or are running a FMP build. Having one Gasoline is awesome! Having more than one is wasted items in my opinion.
Also for Goat Hoof it is actually 100% better than Energy Drink all of the time. The way sprinting multiplies movement speed means that Goat Hoof's effective sprinting speed increase is more than Energy Drink. Then on top of that Goat Hoof increases all movespeed, not just when sprinting.
@@PopeCharlesIV basically what I’m getting at is an item with 1 stack that’s really good is a really good item. But yeah A B basically the same. Just that it’s less situational than other B items. And that’s pretty interesting with goat hood and soda. Would you sprint faster with 1 soda 1 hoof or 2 hoof?
@@dwbryant13 As far as I'm aware, Goat Hooves are just always better than Energy Drink. I can't confirm that they don't work better together though. There are a lot of items in this game that multiply together far stronger than stacking them individually.
I could listen to Nice tutorialm talk for hours man what a passionate dude ❤️
Thanks for the comment and the kind words! It means a lot to me.
Its better to get 1 energy drink and 1 goat hoof than having 2 of either.
only bad thing about goat hoof is the emotional damage you get from unlocking it
I usually keep all the fungus until the second loop of eclipse run since it help you heal back to full and blood shire is useful early on
Thanks for the comment!
That's an interesting strategy for sure. Blood shrines are powerful early much like you say. I think they're more a detriment than anything else on Eclipse 8 though. Permanent damage on each stage is a brutal consequence for a few kills worth of gold.
@@PopeCharlesIV oh yeah that make sense. I just haven't reach e8. Just get to e4 a few days ago. Guess the strat still work until then
@@khongbiettuc7445 I enjoy Eclipse a lot because it gives the game a bit of extra challenge and I enjoy forcing myself to learn and adapt, but a huge limitation of Eclipse is that it limits builds and strategies. When I rate items I try to keep in mind that while everything that works on Eclipse 8 will work on lower difficulties, the converse is not always true. That shouldn't stop anyone from executing those strategies where they're still good though!
youre video is very well made first time seeing u
Thank you for the comment and the kind words!
Thank you for this list btw I know you probably not going to see this but I really appreciate you
Thanks for the kind words! I'm glad you liked it.
Can you add the void whites or are you going to make a separate void tier list
I have a full void item tier list already uploaded!
I think this tierlist only maybe holds for Eclipse, where healing is way less effective and damage prevention/mitigation is more valuable. If you're saying this applies to monsoon - oh boy I've got a lot of criticisms.
Most notably, I think healing is really low on this tierlist. Medkit is crazy low (should be A tier imo) - the only requirement for its healing is "take damage" and it heals a decent chunk, esp in the early game. Monster tooth is also a decent item for early game or melee survivors (maybe like a B tier) although it does fall off.
Like it or not, you WILL take damage and in monsoon passive regen is worthless. You have to have healing items or you'll get whittled down eventually. This is also why I think elixirs are too high, they become less than useless if you get hit and aren't stacking watches.
I think tougher times and opal might be _slightly_ overvalued, but I think shield gen is way too far up there. It's basically a bison steak that can't be healed. Not _horrible_ since it is percentage based, but only marginally useful (outside of plasma shrimp).
Finally, I want to make the case for gasoline. It's a workhorse item - it doesn't carry your run but it provides good AoE and many survivors struggle with that. It can also proc death mark and scales extremely well. I think it deserves to be bumped up to A.
I do focus on Eclipse because every strategy that works on Eclipse also works on Monsoon and below. The converse is not true though: strategies that work on lower difficulties won't necessarily work on Eclipse.
I don't have a whole lot to say about your criticisms. They seem fair and tailored for your playstyle, which is a good thing! I will say that shields are massive underrated in general though. Transcendence is one of the best items in the game (and one of my favorites). By extension, PSG is also quite good.
@@PopeCharlesIV Fair enough, although I do wish you'd pointed that out at the beginning!
I'll give shields a second chance. There's probably something to be said for the idea that a shield build requires very few healing items.
Your videos are very professional and well done :)
Thanks for the comment and the compliment!
I'm still learning of course, but I'm pretty happy with how this video turned out.
"the crowbar only gives extra damage for the first hit"
while practically it is true, technically it is not
Your view on items is interestingly biased.
A major down point for a lot of items is "It requires you to get hit so it is bad, also just don't get hit." Yet Cautious Slug is a worse Medkit and Opal literally requires you to get hit. Potions are literally this but used up and gone forever. Just don't get hit.
You will get hit though and that is why Opal and Tougher Times is so powerful or Potions are a must with Watch.
Time for a few simple combos.
Medkit + Roll of Pennies to intentionally gain money, more effective on weak blazing enemies.
9 Medkits + Rejuv is a practical full heal. (90% + 1-shot protection) Stealth Kit helps ensure survival.
Medkits + Opal + Safer Spaces requires you to get hit 4 times relatively fast to die. Stealth Kit makes you near invincible. Tougher Times if you have enough will replace Safer Spaces.
These aren't fancy but these simple white items can make you literally near immortal.
Thanks for the comment! I really do enjoy when people engage in conversation here even if it is to call me out about an opinion of mine.
I was actually talking to someone the other day about items and how I'm biased towards certain ones, and I think a large part of my bias comes from the fact that I exclusively play on Eclipse. This has a large impact on how I view a variety of things about the game but I think two are important here: healing is atrocious past Eclipse 5, and the value gained from healing is increasingly diminished the more you get hit on Eclipse 8.
The result is that I think healing items are pretty useless in general, but more importantly CONDITIONAL healing (Medkit, Monster Tooth, etc.) is both unreliable and impotent compared to unconditional healing like Wungus (Void item tierlist coming soon :)) and Cautious Slug. Consider just the Eclipse 1 modifier. Medkit will only help you if you continue to get hit, while Cautious Slug will not only heal up the detriment from the modifier, but it also lets you run away from enemies to heal up if you take a hit in combat.
Secondarily, because healing value is further diminished the more damage taken on Eclipse 8, DAMAGE PREVENTION becomes infinitely more valuable than healing. This is why Tougher Times and Opal are rated highly. I'm sure you can deduce from this reasoning that items like Rose Buckler and Safer Spaces will also be rated highly in my opinion.
While I love this game to death, I do think it has flaws and this healing nerf on Eclipse is one of them. Healing and self-damage can lead to some really interesting builds like with Planula, Hellfire Tincture, and Razorwire, or the ones you mentioned like with Medkit and Pennies. It also unfortunately invalidates all but the very best healing items. While someone that only plays on Monsoon and below won't have this problem, it's one that I encounter because of how I play the game.
I always scrap mocha, I will give it a chance in my next run
Mocha is an amazing item, I promise!
I’m gonna be honest I think bungus is C. On eclipse 5+ your natural regeneration is ass, and if you don’t get any healing drones on stage 1 healing can be very hard to come by. So getting a bungus is not that bad, since if you have some downtime you can get back some hp. Better than fresh meat at least imo. Gas is A for me, having aoe on certain survivors like bandit is huge. Focus Crystal would either be B or A since almost all survivors can benefit from it. Staying close is honestly really important imo. The only survivor who doesn’t want it is railgunner. Also, repulsion armor is S imo. On eclipse 8 it can stop certain attacks from permanently lowering your hp, including blood pillar. Personally I think barrier sucks, so I’d put topaz brooch in B or C. Also stun grenades don’t count for death mark. Still C tho. Overall, I do largely agree. Good video :)
Thanks for the comment!
I don't really like Bungus even on Eclipse 5+ because it's so easy to get a Cautious Slug and the Slug is just better. Also standing still to regen health really grates on me personally because it feels like time waste. I do agree that it's better than Meat though!
Gasoline can definitely be a contender for A. I might have tunneled a little too hard on its value for Mithrix and Voidling and overlooked how helpful it is going through stages.
Focus Crystal on the other hand I don't agree with. Even on Acrid I find myself often being too far away to get value out of it. I just don't like standing that close to enemies. It feels like a high-risk-low-reward game that way.
The thing that prevents Repulsion Armor from being S tier for me is that it confers damage reduction instead of armor. A flat 5 damage reduction just isn't that good. It has its uses of course, and the blood pillars on Commencement is a good one that I should have mentioned, but flat damage reduction loses its value really quickly compared to armor.
Barrier does suck in general, but I'd still rather have the Brooch than some other defensive items like Meat or Bungus. Killing a crowd of wisps with Gasoline or something and getting an extra 200 health is non-trivial and can feel pretty satisfying too.
And for Stun Grenade another commenter told me that it doesn't count for Death Mark a while back and I pinned that comment. Thanks for letting me know though!
@@PopeCharlesIV Bandit (and Loader but Loader doesn't even need the damage) is the only character that can really get value from focus crystal I think. Even with stealth magdumping a boss from that close isn't really safe though.
@@TooFewSecrets Replace Bandit with Merc and I 100% agree with you. Actually I think Merc is the best user of Focus Crystal specifically with the standard loadout because all of his damage occurs right next to the enemy.
@@PopeCharlesIV Mercenary is just worse Loader, so I figured he was counted already (/s)
@@TooFewSecrets My heart
Railgunner cant take advantage of bleed??? Homie has not heard of proc chains IN HIS LIFE
I don't think it's controversial to say that she can't take advantage of bleed in comparison to survivors like Huntress, Commando, Captain, or Engineer.
@@PopeCharlesIV if you build efficient proc chains, and multiple of them, especially with something like ukele, she CAN take HUGE advantage of bleed
@@ppeez Proc chains don't allow her to proc bleed efficiently on a single target. That's just a fact.
@@PopeCharlesIV she doesnt need multiple single target procs, she can delete anything with ukuleles etc and a lot of bleed
@@ppeez She can't stack bleed on a single target without multiple procs. Bleed is suboptimal on RG.
I feel like having at least 5 gasolines will make your run broken, with one of the green items that multiplies gasoline damage by 4. by itself its meh, but can easily be really good.
I don't understand the Sticky bomb hate, if you get a bunch of them, wouldnt it do more damage than crit glasses? I think it scales off of total damage
Can you do this with greens and reds?
I have done that actually! All of the RoR2 item tier list videos have been completed.
Pope Charles IV
Quick question what song was played in the background
It's a song from the Transistor soundtrack called Forecast.
@@PopeCharlesIV oh no wonder it felt familiar ty
One thing I'm missing is the entire tierlist ironically. Show the whole list!
Thanks for the comment!
An image of the whole list is in the description of every one of these videos in case you want to reference it without rewatching the whole video.
Stun doesn't actually count as a debuff for Deathmark unfortunately
Yea I unfortunately learned that through the comments after the video went live.
This list makes me want to cry
Why is that?
transistor ost based :)
Thanks for the comment!
I really like it too and I'll probably be using it in more of my videos going forward.
Can you use Bungus on stage 1 of Mithrix when he jumps up, you can probably get a few ticks of healing!!! HUGE BALUE
i'm not that kind of player whose interest is defeating enemies at lighspeed, and usually the huge enemy quantity that can kill me is sudden, not because i kill too slow, so tri tip dagger would be S even if i am Loader or railgun, not because it doesn't work as well as mul-T's nail gun but because it is good enough if you can keep the debuff 24/7 not if you can ramp up quickly as sudden swarming kills me not killing to slow and enemies pile up
text walls part two
APR isnt deserving of S tier simply because bosses are kinda too easy compared to normal enemies? The only bosses presenting a challenge are Hordes of Many (which are just monsters), Voidling (because adding strong homing on a shotgun attack is a really great idea hopoo thanks) and Overloading Worms (which appear hyper-late or if youre based and activate three mountain shrines stage 5). None are in the "balancing zone" as noted by hopoo (they only balance according to preloop experience)
Backup Mag doesn't deserve to be above low B. You'd think having an extra charge of an ability sounds cool until you realise that you will only get one additional ability use per teleporter. You do not recharge both charges, you charge them one by one. If it's a charging ability like Artificer's Nanobomb, the cooldown stops until you cast the orb. You'd really prefer that single additional grapple over the 20% damage buff? Or that one Phase Blast? Yeah, doubt that.
Brooch? A? Great joke.
It's 15 FLAT barrrier, the only thing it scales with is how much stacks you have. Yes, early game it's king, but go past stage 2 and you'll see how awful it is. That 15 barrier is going to vanish IMMEDIATELY after getting it, since barrier decay scales with your max health (6.66% maxhp/s to be exact). You'll either need to pile up a huge stack of enemies, or have an FMP with multiple broaches so you can keep up the barrier going. Instead of having those five broaches, why not have five watches instead? That's double the damage.
Stun Grenade definitely deserves better. Keep one or two on the characters that hit a bunch, and suddenly normal enemies are no longer a threat when you're looking at them. Obviously, won't do much on characters like Loader who hits once and the enemy dies.
I rated APR with the expectation of finishing a fight at Mithrix or the Voidling, who both have high enough healthpools to make stacking damage important. Especially the Voidling who has a ridiculous amount of health.
I don't know what you're talking about with "one charge per teleporter" because that's just not true. Each charge regenerates independently. On survivors where they're gated by cooldowns more than anything else (Artificer can get stuck waiting for charges of her M1 and M2 for example, and Railgunner gets an extra shot without reloading), the DPS uptime is worth a lot. Obviously it's worth less on someone like Captain because his M2 is terrible.
I don't disagree that Brooch is useless compared to high-tier damage items like Watches and Glasses, but compared to other white defensive items like Medkit and Bungus, the Brooch blows them out of the water. The ultimate goal is to scrap them before Mithrix, so if you want to say I should have put it a tier lower based on that behavior, that's fine, but I don't think there's any argument that Brooch isn't one of the better white defensive items especially for the first two stages.
Stun grenade is dogwater lol.
@@PopeCharlesIV
" Each charge regenerates independently." Yeah, if you're letting them charge up. Would you intentionally not use your ability on the teleporter just to shoot it out twice? That just sounds dumb. Again, charges recharge one by one, one cooldown after the other, not independently.
"but compared to other white defensive items like Medkit and Bungus, the Brooch blows them out of the water" On stage 1 and 2. After that, you've scaled your hp by levelling too much and brooches are just not worth keeping.
"Stun grenade is dogwater lol." Literally wrong go use it more. Anyone who thinks Stun Grenade sucks pretty much never actually tried it out.
@@obeeked1385 I wrote out a longer response but Windows decided to restart and erase it so unfortunately you're going to get the abridged version.
Backup Mag does recharge independently and you get the extra charges through the whole game, not just teleporter events. As I previously mentioned, DPS uptime is really important and a few survivors benefit massively from it.
I never said Brooch was always worth keeping, I said it can be useful on your way to Mithrix and it should be scrapped before you get there. Compared to other defensive items in the tier, it is still better than pretty much every single one aside from Tougher Times and Cautious Slug.
Stun Grenade is garbage because the only things I would actually want to stun are immune to the debuff. I don't care about stunning Greater Wisps and Stone Golems. I want to stun Stone Titans and Vagrants. To be honest I should have put it lower on this list because it can't even proc Death Mark. Top of scrapper tier at best.
@@PopeCharlesIV windows L+Ratiod you tbh
True, but you wouldn't benefit from those charges more than any other item in A/S.
Yeah, but again - the only time you get benefit from it is really early (stage 1-2) or if you intentionally gimp yourself and print off a bunch of items into brooches (only applicable to awful rng runs). You wouldn't prioritize any defensive item over an offensive one.
I think you're missing the point where the only actually dangerous bosses are the final bosses and hordes of many (not including oworm since you usually don't encounter it). No other boss has a dangerous enough attack you'd want it stunned. You're underestimating how much more dangerous being swarmed by normal enemies is compared to a boss existing.
Let me make an example. (we will allow stun nade to stun bosses) You start the teleporter. You meet a Grandparent. But a Elite Elder Lemurian also spawns in. Would you still prioritize hitting the boss? Or would you charge your priority? For me (and for many, many others) the EEL is a much higher threat compared to any boss. Or an Elite Brass Contraption. And other enemies that can easily pack a punch. Would you keep trying to down the boss, knowing there is an enemy capable of near-instantly ending your run?
@@obeeked1385 That's why Backup Mag is at the bottom of A tier. Everything above it is more useful, but that doesn't mean it's bad.
Yes I agree you should never prioritize defensive items over damage unless the defensive items are top-tier like Opal, Safer Spaces, or Rose Buckler.
That's fine and all but what item would you give up for Stun Grenade? Glasses? Tri-Tip? Syringe? Even Stick Bomb is more useful for taking down enemies before they can hurt you. Even if you think the effect from Stun Grenade is super valuable, the opportunity cost of other items is just not worth it.
Good list but I'm really not a fan of any form of, "you shouldn't be getting hit" or "don't get hit" logic. You will get hit. It's just inevitable. Preparing to get hit is just as important as avoiding it.
I always invite people to play how they like! Fun is the name of the game, after all. With that said, idolizing not getting hit is how I choose to play. I prioritize movement speed and damage and trust that my skill is good enough. It's a high-risk play style, but it's high-reward and enjoyable.
i think you're a bit biased against healing specifically because you're a big eclipse player. you keep saying healing isn't that valuable especially in high eclipse levels, the truth is healing is only not that valuable in high eclipse levels. in the base game and in eclipse 1-4 healing is incredibly strong.
Strategies that work on E8 will also work below that, but the converse is not always true. That's what I organized the list this way.
@@PopeCharlesIV i'm not sure if a politican or an ai wrote this comment
@@xboxman5ify The former would make a lot more money than I do, and I refuse to touch the latter. Make of that what you will.
"Meat is absolute garbage 🙂"
Facts. Still don't know why they changed it from Meat to Steak.
Where's the picture of the teir list? Lol
It's in the description!
I feel like you forgot about Rex
I feel like Rex is pretty poorly designed and that makes him an exception in a lot of cases, for better or, often, for worse.
Aint no way this dude put PSG over sticky bombs. What? Psg is just meat with a downside and meat is in d tier wtf
I think shields are always better than health. I pick up Transcendence every time I see it. Also Sticky Bombs are one of the worst damage items in the game. It's like bleed without the damage and with 1/2 the proc chance.
@@PopeCharlesIV not really because its total damage so late game its way stronger than a lotta other whites. Its not better than glasses and watches, but its a better pick than focus crystal on ranges survivors
@@seanstroodle4418 I'll be honest, I hadn't crunched the numbers on it before. I did a simple mental heuristic to check how good it is. After crunching the numbers, one Sticky Bomb is roughly a 5-10% damage increase, assuming that the bomb doesn't explode after the target dies. This is definitely far better than I expected and I shouldn't have put it as low as I did in the tier list. Thanks for bringing this to my attention!
@@PopeCharlesIV fun fact, stickies used to be literally god tier because the used to increase damage as well as chance on every stack and it was linear scaling, too so just a few stickies was an enormous damage boost.
This was a coo vid
Thanks for the comment and the kind words!
Brooch A-Tier? I don't even know you
Bnugmmus
bustling fungus is good. Sorry focus crystal is good on acrid? But bad in general? Huh? PERSONAL SHIELD GENERATOR A TIER???? Ok i dont think you understand the game that much
if your playing loader use focus crystal instead of delicate watches same buff no breaking
They do stack together in the same manner that all damage buffs in RoR2 stack, meaning that having one of both is always going to be more damage than having two of one.
who let him cook?
I live in the kitchen.
Not "Æ-krid" it's "Ack-rid"
Sorry!
Plain wrong on some points but ok
🤑🤑🤑🤑
Ehcrid
And I'm not even Canadian :(
@@PopeCharlesIV it’s ok
bad tier list