That guy is one of the most informed, brilliant guys you've had on your show. These are the types of guys that'll keep Tesla honest. Awesome vid. Very good!
@@focused313 We need more younger people that know how to diagnose stuff/ fix things. I'm 25, which isn't old or life-experience by any stretch of the imagination but I'd still say I'm getting old if I see how people few years younger than me don't know what a screwdriver is. :C
Phil is amazing. His knowledge and sheer brain horsepower are ridiculous. And his main goal has always been about sharing it, helping others to have a better life. Total greatness.
So the control unit only lasts the consumer 4 years before needing a $5K replacement, upon which the old parts will be junked. Whatever happened to the whole "sustainable future" thing, Tesla?
imagine Tesla will have MOD from community. Like Games, Android ROM, Software. Community can make open source MOD Operating System for Tesla, it will be cooll. LOL and of course there is risk also. :P
This guy is pretty amazing that he could figure out all of this himself. He is the Frankenstein of modern tech. Also, easily one of your most informative videos.
Some Atom CPU's are okay, but there was a version out there that had big time problems. I hope Tesla didn't use those version. I know Synology NAS boxes had an issue with some Atom that would just die out of the blue...
Especially in not only cars of all types but farm equipment and heavy Machines that cost stupid amounts to replace new over a bad arm or a motor going out.
Exactly, Tesla and apple are so smart they're dumb. Microsoft and android have apple online support but they still have not learned what the consumer really wants. Once I paid good money for your product, it's no longer yours, It's mines. And I should be able to do what the heck I want with it.
Amazing - I don't own a Tesla ( can't afford one) but a Sprinter van... I love the fact that you're taking the deliberately irreparable and repairing it -Democracy of tech! Thankyou.
Cant wait till all the mohammedans who own many if not all corner stores, midbox stores , metroPCSs and Crickets get ahold of these little white utility vans with renewable tech...more money for them to take over more and more businesses and drive out the competition and introduce sharia law little by little.
Feels like a Class Action waiting to happen. Car kills over due to manufacturer negligence, who then forces an expensive replacement rather then just repair/replace the board they killed.
@@mattjames8683 I'll tell you mine.. I bought my car used, while still under warranty. I took it in for service, and they said "Sure, we can sell you the extended warranty" only to find later that I could not buy the Tesla warranty because I bought my car used from a NON-Tesla wholesaler. Can't see why that really makes a difference, but I guess it does to Tesla.
Jean-Claude AskMe obviously they are not gonna trust any one not from Tesla that doesn’t understand the technology and might end up fucking up something
Geeze, as a data engineer who works in Linux boxes most of my day, wtf? Why would you log every touch to the disk? If anything, if this logging is absolutely needed by a developer, it'd be better to store in memory, then batch the information over to disk periodically or event triggered whichever comes first before the load on memory is too much. Up till now, I've been fine with all the issues Rich has brought up as they're not something I'm concerned about due to Tesla warranty covering my purchase. However, this is different, this is their insufficient software to hardware coding that is going to screw me once I'm outside of normal warranty even though this is a design flaw. I don't care about panel gaps or any of that, but when you f'up the software, and the foot the bill onto me ... I now have an issue.
Totally agree. It's like Ford selling Pintos that they knew were hazardous. It's like GM destroying electric transit to sell more diesel buses. VW cheating emissions. In a nutshell corporations and their profit motives cant be trusted.
I think it is possible to write append-only log files to flash storage without excessive wear. But that requires custom file systems with low-level access through custom drivers, not through some FAT emulation hardware layer. Besides, you usually want logs committed to non-volatile storage ASAP. If the system crashes or blacks out, losing data gathered right before the outage is really inconvenient. You may lose the most relevant clues that way.
@@tabbott429 Not quite the same thing when those were all about harm to life, health and/or environment. With the chip it's just inept obsolescence that'll cost the user bucks not life. It's gonna cost Tesla in the long run.
@@DiscoFang it's just ridiculous that companies leave things like this to be sold to the public at their expense. A screen failure in a Tesla is pretty major failure that makes the car much less functional so in a way it's kind of a serious flaw that they should've never left unfixed. I mean what computer company would design a part of their hardware to fail based on poor software code. They had to have been aware of this issue since that's what they do as a company.
Here's my professional opinion as an embedded system's engineer : Logging to Flash == Rookie Mistake that should have been caught in reliability testing... rushed job?
Diego Spinola thats right. Its a rookie mistake or for Tesla it is on purpose to do that for the costumers crying in their doors. eMMC is the worst thing, even worse than SSD TLC. They should put an SLC level without lever wearing, like a server environment. And for the last, why not a command to dumping storage memory because they are filling as much as they stay awake.
Yep. I don’t get why Tesla doesn’t just employ automobile production engineers to sort all of this stuff out. Model after model continues to have problems that just should make it into the production models. I understand his willingness to push the envelope of what is possible has put them ahead of the game on electric cars and indeed on space launch systems too. But if Tesla continues on this road of building cars poorly and having outrageous repair costs once out of warranty, the company has no long term future because the other manufacturers will sort out the electrification soon enough. History is littered with car brands that died due to poor quality despite having brilliant designs.
Tesla needs all the advice it can get. They build overpriced laptops on wheels that nobody can troubleshoot and they aren't build to last. Fun cars plagued by complex electronic systems.
@@DigitalDissident Any car electric or not that has the same features is an overpriced laptop according to your logic ... most of the cars built today if they have any sort of collision avoidance system will have an similar processor unit it it for that purpose alone
Irony...... Develop a car that is supose to help the enviroment yet they dont want to help develop the repair market to keep these vehicles from becoming environmental problems when they brakedown.
You gotta understand just like ford and Honda, Lexus, Toyota any major car company they didn’t train random people to fix there cars peopled study and did it themselves and opened up their own shops and hence your local mechanic or body shop! Our new generation is lazy an not hands on
Most of these people dont know is lithium is non renewable and their like nuclear isotopes. Lithium and electricity will hyperinflate when we go from 3% of the world to 90%+. Gas is cheaper and there multi uses for oil. Oil is projected to run out 150+ yrs while lithium we will run out by 2050 says economist and Elon Musk himself. Most people are fooled about climate.
I like to say that people who buy used vehicles or drive anything over 10yrs old are doing way better things for the EnViRoNmEnT than the wealthy snobs buying/leasing new cars & EVs semiannually. Same goes for many consumer products like smart phones. Hold onto what works.
Amazing that somebody's 4 year old car could stop working due to a $10 chip and tesla will give you the finger! Tesla and Apple seem to have a lot in common right now.
An SSD isn’t a 10 dollar chip. They’re faster and better than a hard drive which is great for an operating system like windows/OSX. How ever a hard drive will spin for years, an SSD will stop giving you instant access to files after you have saved/deleted over (written) to many times. They’re an expensive future but have a specific hardware purpose. I’m a hardware guy and get what Phil is saying. I have one in my computer to but I also have a hard drive...
@MacBookemDanno this was an older car, considering the model S came out in 2012 it could of not been a bargain barrel option at the time. Tech improves fast. To lazy to go back and see which year the one he was initially talking about was but it was 2.0 or older aka early 2016 maybe earlier
@@amen_ra6926 bit more dangerous to work on a 480V battery pack then an iphone though. And since a tesla charges at 150kW thats even more scary. Last thing tesla needs is a salvaged handy man rebuild catching on fire, they already have enough fires as is. 150kW is an insane amount of power by the way, that could power 100 non restricted regular outlets and most appartment buildings with 30-40 suites. Its annoying that they are difficult about it but they do have some legit reasons. Tesla doesn't have the resources to make sure every salvaged title is repaired properly by a backyard mechanic. Doesn't mean the backyard guys can't do it right but theres always that risk.
Super red flag why people shouldnt dump a years salary into a laptop on wheels filled with complex electronics that few can troubleshoot. I like EVs but these need to be build with more long term ownership in mind. Ive only ever bought used cars so I probably will never have a Tesla because without a warranty they're risky. Corporations will continue to build for profit, not the environment or consumer...
I like the acceleration that EVs offer, the low center of gravity, extra storage, lack of oil, & less moving parts which should make them more reliable. Unfortunately EVs & most new cars are being made with complex computer systems or bad design. I'm waiting for EVs built with long term durability & easy maintenance in mind. My dream EV would be something like the Tesla Roaster, a coupe, but affordable. I personally don't care at all for touch screens, self driving, SUVs, or tech gimmicks like electric doors.
I want to love Tesla and their cars are stellar, but this gives me pause. The right to repair thing is pretty key to me and drives me nuts even on something like a phone or a laptop. I can only imagine having a small electronic board go out due a single bad eMMC chip, and having Tesla tell you it costs $5k out of warranty and you have to replace the whole massive screen and computer etc.
Don’t get me wrong, this kind of behavior from Tesla drives me nuts. But, there are guys like this and other 3rd parties that work to solve these issues until the mfg pulls their head out of their rear.
If something breaks and you wanna fix it they can give you the best price in the market cous they are the one doing it. I’m you go to a service center they might charge you extra. Plus a chips are really cheap
As someone that worked in the electronics industry for over 35 years the wear problem on the nonvolatile memory is unusual but not that uncommon... what surprises me is that they are not immediately addressing the issue. It’s not that hard to fix and should be a low-risk change.
Rich, I just want to say that before I started watching your videos I was one of those idiots that thought Tesla was the answer to the question: "What does the future look like?" I was very close to getting a Model X without realizing that when you "buy" a Tesla you're not actually "buying" anything. You're paying Tesla to drive THEIR car around until THEY decide they don't want you to drive it or charge it anymore, but then they won't give you anything back for your money. THANK YOU!! It's amazing how Tesla, being such a huge company and started by someone who without a doubt is a genius, doesn't realize that they are the "Apple" of car companies (who are in themselves the "Sears" and "Blockbuster" of companies). And if they think I'm paying them a compliment by calling them the "Apple" of car companies...look into the history of the other two and get back to me. The one thing those companies had in common is that they were all impossibly dominant in their markets and eras and there was no challenging them, until someone did. Then all the people they pissed off over time came out of the woodwork and DESTROYED them. You have saved many people a lot of money and time and frustration. I can't become a patron right now, but I can at least subscribe and watch your ads. I'm no longer one of those Tesla-starry-eyed idiots any more...now I'm just a plain idiot. So thank you....I think.
@ 12:30 So basically, Tesla uses your chip to gather information to further development then they charge you $2000 to $5000 to replace the screen after they use up your chip. ...Nice...
No, their developers don't turn off their debug before they put it on the car. And if you are unlucky it will break your car and they will charge you for a new full unit (I assume: if it is out of warranty). This debug will never go to Tesla, it's just dump to the chip without ever anyone needing to read it.
I doubt that they ever use those logs from the cars in the field. The logging is just left on as a vestige of the verification process. No one dares to turn them off after verification. Planned planned obsolescence with plausible deniability. If they don’t address it than is there any other conclusions that can be made.
@@rafal5863 it's not only planned obsolescence but moreso that they retain 100 percent of the control of the asset even though you paid for it. They extort you for more money or the car becomes a paperweight. New tech is the catalyst leading us into total global control via technology. Crazy how fast it's being brought about
Considering that Tesla still is burning through their money, fast, they need to grasp for straws to keep the company alive as it is now. Musk put tons of his money in, repeatedly, they had the big IPO, and now Musk was/is collecting capital again. Even though Teslas are selling more than they produce.
Rich, that the insurance cost for Tesla owners is high because of Tesla's policy not to support the second-hand market is super important. Something you need to emphasize in your upcoming videos. That is a big insight that Phil brought up, I don't think you picked up on the importance.
You're absolutely right there's parts availability issues labor issuesessentially everything you don't have with another car when a Tesla gets rear-ended it gets fucked up yeah your Honda does too but it's not the same
I don't think you pay attention either. Tesla is just following Apples business model on non OEM parts. Why is the Apple watch the only watch available?
Be ironic if his *full time job* was hacking Tesla... Then he couldn't securely work on his Teslas full time because he was *working full time* at Tesla testing security.
They can try but the courts have ruled that you have the right to work on your own car or have someone work on it on your behalf and Tesla can go pound sand.
@@CWINDOWSsystem32 Tesla among others signed a memorandum of understanding that the provisions of Massachusetts Right to Repair law would apply to all auto manufacturers in all 50 states. This is why you can now purchase parts from Tesla and why their repair manuals and tools are now available. Tesla however is trying to do an end run around this by limiting access to their software and diagnostic software.
I don’t even like Tesla. But I love Rich Rebuilds and never miss a video. This guy got me thinking Tesla swapping my Cadillac is a good idea. Keep up the good work Rich.
OMG! You interrupted him when he was about to say what Tesla's answer to that was, and I've been wanting to find that out for SEVEN YEARS! OMG! NOW I WILL NEVER KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've advocated for this issue for YEARS!
This was excellent work Rich, great format. This was some next level hacking. A Model 3 Sprinter, that is just so damn cool. We love your new 'full time job'.
Rich, Regarding the Sprinter, did you loan him use your kitchen knife for that project? As for chip updates, maybe they need to look at AMD Raydeon & Ryzen? Just asking. Thnx 4 the info. Say Hi to the kids.
tony monastiere you don’t need that much grunt to run the display. I am surprised they did not go with an arm chip with much more power efficiency. It restrict the software stack possibilities I guess.
@@rafal5863 Nvidia Tegra is ARM chip, and new HW v3 have 8 core ARM build in, but ARM and x86 are to different instruction set, so you can't easly move software between them. But maybe they working on it, because why they add 8c ARM on HW v3?
...umm that logging issue causing the cars to die sounds like a perfect case for a class action lawsuit. Defective design that basically guarantees the car will die ~4 years, easily solved, and Tesla refuses to cover it or even fix it at a reasonable cost. This is typical recall territory.
Wow, how ridiculous!! I was looking at using a nvme ssd as a landing spot for my data pipeline of 10GB/s - After looking at the specs of several high-end models, I quickly realized that the SSD wouldn't last me a year of continual use - come on Tesla, true embedded SW engineers would know to look for such things, especially Unix/Linux guys! I guess their quality department realized, it'll be out of warranty, and let this slide. sad.
Well, the hardware guys thought: Nah, they won't write exessive stuff to that chip, they take care about it. The software guys tought: Well, this chip is fancy pancy. Lets write exessive logs to it, it's so friggin fast and will last forever... Aaaand now we are here.
Jens Harbers hahaha sounds like a team of new grads were given the job of building a Tesla - man, talk about luck!! I wish I had that opportunity as a new grad! :-)
@@teamsalvation In every development I've worked so far that's what happened. The Hardware guys don't talk to the software people and vice versa. At the end everybody thinks damnit, how could this happen. And then everybody points their finger at each other "Their fault". Seen that happening often...:D
It's as if wear levelling was not really a dealt with. Considering that logs are mostly append-only files, so overwrites and deletions are relatively infrequent, I find that underwhealming.
Herman Robak ok, then you’ll run out of space, the part is “junked” but it’s otherwise perfectly good since there was only ever a single write performed to each “sector”. This explanation makes me think they’re even more “green” than I previously though. If you’re only ever appending with no mechanisms to loop (overwrite) then obviously you’re going to run out of space at some point - what them? Cause the car to stop working ... sure, why not. Good idea. It’s not like people’s lives are at stake. 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
7:30 Had no idea the p85 rear drive was so cooling compromised. Is it possible to mod in a supplemental heat exchanger that can forcefully circulate coolant faster?
@@Nordic_Mechanic Yes but you'd have to like, cut into the oil passages in the motor, stick on a secondary oil pump, route through a heat exchanger, and fill up with extra oil to compensate
Wow. Every video I watch of yours, just shows me another reason NOT to consider buying a Tesla, NEW OR USED!!! Thanks for being so open and honest about your experiences with Tesla.
Phil is like a walking Tesla knowledge coding book, but working independent, doesn't work for them, can't rely on the team support, and open access. I respect people like this.
Your comment made me think of Julian Assange, slandered by the media, imprisoned, and falsely accused for helping to reveal government secrets & corruption. God I hate censorship too, Google tracks everything through code.
@@DigitalDissident Assange did some amazing work then hosed his legacy by collaborating with the Russians. He made a real mess of it and it's a damn shame. But still, he helped to re-establish whistleblowing as a tool of democracy and I hope he'll be punished lightly in spite of that. He won't though, he's going to be thrown in prison for the rest of his life which is wrong.
The Model S and X both use Induction Motors, meanwhile the Model 3 uses a Permanent Magnet Alternating Current Motor. PMAC motors have better power density than Induction Motors)(can be smaller in size, but make just as much power as a bigger Induction motor)
Very interesting. The MCU on my S died for that exact reason. I had to pay CHF3500 for a new one. I was livid since the car was only 2000km out of warranty when it happened. Not only that but it had died twice in the previous 2 months but they were able to recover it then. The staff were quite rude to me and made me feel like it was my fault, even after admitting it was a common problem. It’s made me think twice about getting a new one. On the plus side, when I asked for the old MCU they gave it back to me. I would love to know how to turn off the Linux logging.
How can u ask is the model 3 drive unit enough to power the van? it's far more powerful than Mercedes offers. I would have thought that someone who owns a Tesla has a clue about its power.
Tesla would find Australian consumer law a total pain as not only is there a statutory warranty period but the implied warranty, which can mean that the memory failure would be seen as a factory fault and covered.
Stock Sprinter drivetrain is 188 hp and either 258 lb-ft or 325 lb-ft (gas/diesel). (Dynoed) Model 3 RWD before OTA update, 325 hp and 320 lb-ft. Quicker, but not amazingly so, once the 75 kWh pack is accounted for.
Wow. Phil is unreal. How has he acquired so much knowledge in such a short time. Serious respect to this genius. Great work by you too Rich, especially finding people like this.
That guy is spot on and knows exactly what he's talking about. GREAT video, Kudos Rich. I hope they fix this. And frankly I do think it's a beginner mistake. Still, I love my Model 3.
Just when I thought I was a computer nerd, Phil goes to a completely next level. Would love to be able to intern for someone like him b/c so much knowledge would be gained. Great video, Rich and get back safely to Massachusetts!
It's the type of car you never really own or can expect to operate without direct contact with the "mothership " long term. It's basically a continuous monthly payment.
@@Darnelj1 any luxury brand. It's by no means awful, you pay a fixed amount per month to drive a brand new car every few years. It's pretty practical if you have a steady income or have a business. If you're short of money it's much better to buy an used Toyota or Honda.
I don't think anyone appreciates the magnitude of this issue. The display subsystem on EVERY single Tesla produced will stop working when that MMC card wears out, even on the model 3's. It's just a matter of time. Elon needs to provide a solution that doesn't involve replacing the whole subsytem out of warranty for $2 to $5k a pop. This is insane.
The "service after the sale" is what will Kill Tesla. Their attitude towards customers is the same the Big Three were in the 1970's. The same attitude that have 80% of the US car market to the Japanese.
When putting a Tesla in a van like this and you put the sensors in they will inevitably be in a different spot. Will that require calibration and how would you do that?
Esk8 Teen I think that’s the biggest concern with self modification. Everyone likes to hate Tesla for their Anti repair policy (which is worsened when they have a backlog of repairs) but having amateurs placing sensors in different places and self fixing these machines could be extremely dangerous when autopilot becomes the standard.
So pay $50000 on an electric car to save on buying gas. But pay $2500 every 3 to 4 every years and pay double on insurance rates. I'm not entirely convinced with that information of buying a Model 3 yet.
and what's that gonna do. it could never work. it would hold back progress, for better or worse, because you cant produce everything in a way that some dude with a workbench can repair it, and you cant expect companies to offer services and parts to everyone. Tesla has been on the brink of extinction for almost all the years since it started, only by Musk repeatedly injecting his money, with the IPO and with newly collected investment capital, it has managed to stay alive- even though their cars are crazy expensive and are loved. If you add laws that require them to offer what is necessary to guarantee a right to repair they will close doors the next day.
@@maxmeier532 Why not? Things that are easily accessible to be repaired by the end user have been produced for decades, and they still are. The right-to-repair movement is about giving more freedom to the end user and taking control away from the corporation. If the corporation can't survive without holding their customers hostage, then let them die.
korbitr There may be 2 broad possibilities to this. One side is that Tesla is obsessed about controlling and pricing everything, in which people/parties will definitely deal with and solve eventually (they’re just a car company, I think Elon is smart enough to realise that) unless Elon gets his way and actually is left to be to revolutionise the Energy industry, which is amazing but we deal with these things as a tradeoff (Tesla will face competition so it won’t get too bad). Remember that Elon is not an angel. Check up his history and I believe you’ll agree. People will do something about it don’t worry, I just sympathise with people who put so much trust in Elon (including me). Second, this is a non-critical issue Tesla is leaving aside for now. They realised this issue and will fix it but the company is on the brink of collapse and Elon and other heads are directed to put more time on more important stuff (likely not even informed about this issue). Issues with the company definitely pile up to such a degree Elon (and other executives) can’t go through all of them, or manpower is directed to focus on breakthrough technologies. Other probabilities probably lie within these 2 possibilities is the form of a spectrum. As a potential tesla investor, my take is to sit back and watch the show. It’s like investing in Apple, they make dumb mistakes that are frustrating, but do so well that you still put money in them. Apple can afford to disrupt the market and make dumb mistakes precisely because they make money and have such a large bank behind them though if they don’t get better people will leave. An example would be big oil. Lacks progress, pollutes environment, just dumb, antique and yuck, but we won’t have the world today without them. Big factor why they have so much money to burn on tesla stocks, and if that can’t stop tesla they still can burn money to change industries. Such is karma. Don’t like it? Run your own company.
People complain that Tesla won't support certain cars under certain circumstances, but look what that has done. It's opened up an industry for other people. I like it. Thanks for sharing.. great video.
I really appreciate these videos and the truth that they reveal. I have been looking for reasons to buy a Tesla but after watching these videos made by a third party I find reasons to not buy a Tesla. Proprietary parts, no secondary support, long wait times for repair parts in the event of a wreck etc.
12:51 Android has Linux subsystem logging just like what's shown on that laptop a few minutes ago. The command is logcat to view it. You can use adb to see it.
It's logging to non-violate memory I think and not extensively, but yes it does log things, but they're not stored like in that CPU of the cars, if you can say so.
"I'm sticking the tech and running gear from a Tesla 3 into a Mercedes Sprinter Van" *Elon Musk spits his coffee out and copyrights the idea as his own*
@@DanLow85 Do yourself a favor and just make money doing what you do best, and use that money to have Tesla fix your problem rather than spending your time on some odd forums and have some random dude fix your hardware without any option that he is even remotely able to guarantee you your Tesla wont kill you after installing the unit.
Love Rich and his channel but I am certainly not a fan of Ingineer, Others including myself have voiced our concerns about him being in control of the entire fleet he's rooted. You aren't fixing the car, you are screwing yourself into relying on one person with full access to the car who won't give it to you. If something screws up, you need to pay whatever he asks if you want it fixed.
@Deon Denis Picking my poison would be either rooting it myself or having someone like Ingineer give you root access to maintain your own car rather than be in control indefinitely. As I haven't used his services, I can only give my genuine feelings on how they are operated from a long glance. You can find more unhappy people here with stories that should at least make you think twice. teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/salvage-car-owners-support-group.61332/page-13
@Deon Denis wk057 and Ingineer used to be a few of the only folks offering such services but that's changed over the last couple years. There's a few online instructions for rooting your own Tesla but it's obviously not for those without any background knowledge on coding and/or linux.
@@DanRossGraphics You're paying for a service that Tesla won't supply anymore. I mean what else are you going to do? At least if the guy can be held accountable for what he does, then it should all be fine. It's not like he can pull some crazy "all cars crash" shenanigans without dozens of people pointing their fingers at him.
I think that you can replace the EMMC with a SD card slot. I know that you can solder (BGA) an EMMC to a passive adapter board so it can be used as a SD card, so it sold work in reverse. Might be a thing to consider :) But it might be a whole lot of work for nothing when he can just stop the linux logg... But for the already broken boards it might still be an alternative :)
It'd work, Though just turning off the logging is even easier as you said. Problem is.. it does not change how the cars are continuing to be made with this hidden flaw. Or to put it simply: Instead of fixing it.. They could avoid it altogether.
Epic? GTFO. It was dull as fuck. Not RIch's fault but what do I care about Rich politely asking Joe about hunting to continue the smalltalk. You have a Tesla repairing dude like Rich on your podcast, talk about him and his life. Joe just gets lit and always repeats the same shit, I hunt with a bow blabla, Elk meat, blabla, MMA, blabla, News Radio blabla, back when I was on Fear Factor, blabla. He is hardly ever really interested in his guests.
Same. A $30K Tesla Roadster would be killer though. Or when my ICE dies EV conversion, probably too expensive though. The B6 Passat I drive is so streamlined and rounded, would make a cool EV.
I helped build the "mars rover" with Parker Brother Concepts. We used the drivetrain and frame from a Nissan Leaf. We had no clue if that motor was going to push that 6 ton monster. But it did.
Interesting to see the chip I'm working on, on this channel. The company I work for supplies some chips for use in Teslas (newer S & X, model 3). We have a couple of these Tesla boards at work to test with. I was hoping you guys wouldn't complain about our chips, and luckily you didn't. The storage burning out is actually something we pay close attention to. I recently implemented a new feature on a different chip, which would save some data every time an API call was made. It was necessary to write, since the data needs to persist after boot. To ensure that this burning out of storage doesn't happen, we calculated how much write cycles we'd realistically generate and made sure we had a couple orders of magnitude to spare over the lifespan of the chip. Interesting that Tesla didn't not think about this early on, or at least did not enforce countermeasures. Ah well... What can you do?
In case you missed this yesterday, Tesla announced that they will cover replacement costs of failed 8GB eMMC chips present in older Model S & X vehicles (up to 8 years or 100K miles). Very glad to see Tesla finally step up & take care of this issue, but don't understand the cap on age / mileage given this problem not a matter of if, but when... www.tesla.com/support/adjusted-coverage-program
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Damn, that guy is a legit hacker. The definition of the word itself! Amazing!
one thing , about the logging. if in a crash, every hint would be valuable. ram logging doesn't help when out of power. directly to storage ASAP is the only way. and if in life critical applications ( driving ) you cant put a price.
@@javaguru7141 1st gen, didn't have an sd card slot, as far as i understood, so it all went to flash. 2nd gen with the sdcard could be useful, but, looking it from latency perspective(search "one cpu cycle=one second" infographics), internal NAND will be faster, sd probably runs over some usb hub, they probably want to keep every info down to the last nanosecond in case of an accident. if you seen Tesla autonomy day video, they talk about the 99.999999...% of cases, so thinking with that 99,999...% in mind, if it was me, would need every bit of info i could get from a crash. I would rather have an electric component fail (even a car not starting ), than not having the full log down to nanosecond from a crash. ( flash memory will be cheaper and bigger and in some years we won't even care )
That makes sense regarding first gen not having a slot. From the latency perspective I don't think that'd be a problem here since by the time the computer loses power due to a fire or main switch cutoff the useful data will have been written to disk already as long as the latency can be measured in milliseconds and the write speed is adequate. But I do think you may be right that it's an intentional design decision, it's hard for me to find a solid reason though.
@@javaguru7141 being a fan of Elon, i can think of the dialogue, engineer: we can log everything but it wear out the flash. Elon: just log everything. period. we will need every bit to make it perfect. Engineer: ok degug=everything
@@steliospap9887 But according to the video, the logs in question aren't used by Tesla at all normally and can't be read remotely. The ones Tesla uses are stored on the SD card already.
Fascinated that he says the Model 3 is the better car. People like myself previously got all hung up on the Model S because one would think it's because it's their flagship model. That the 3 actually has better cooling is intriguing.
That guy is one of the most informed, brilliant guys you've had on your show.
These are the types of guys that'll keep Tesla honest.
Awesome vid. Very good!
Elon Musk's hit squad is on the move
I'd definitely invest in his shop. I need him to mentor some of the top young minds in high school.
@@focused313 We need more younger people that know how to diagnose stuff/ fix things. I'm 25, which isn't old or life-experience by any stretch of the imagination but I'd still say I'm getting old if I see how people few years younger than me don't know what a screwdriver is. :C
@@Swordie100 Most of the guys that are really good at this are in the 65 to 80-year-old range. When they were born computers were in their infancy.
Phil is amazing. His knowledge and sheer brain horsepower are ridiculous. And his main goal has always been about sharing it, helping others to have a better life. Total greatness.
So the control unit only lasts the consumer 4 years before needing a $5K replacement, upon which the old parts will be junked. Whatever happened to the whole "sustainable future" thing, Tesla?
@TurnTimeTable that's horse shit
No shit
Whatever happened to Googles "do no evil"?
Model 3 powered Sprinter van is probably the coolest thing I've ever seen.
I want info video after he finnish this project.
yes I am hoping to do this with my cayman. Just waiting for it to be able to run independently
Sounds super gay to me
Well the coolest as that it will have all the model 3 hardware so it could potentially drive itself. Although I wonder if it knows its twice as long?
imagine Tesla will have MOD from community. Like Games, Android ROM, Software. Community can make open source MOD Operating System for Tesla, it will be cooll. LOL and of course there is risk also. :P
This guy is pretty amazing that he could figure out all of this himself. He is the Frankenstein of modern tech. Also, easily one of your most informative videos.
In this episode Rich Repeats exposes that $100k + cars are run by 5 Intel Atom Netbooks that retail for around $22 today
And in this comment Samcrac reveals why he's jealous of a guy that know atleast 10% more than him. Stay tuned to see how low the bar can go.
Some Atom CPU's are okay, but there was a version out there that had big time problems. I hope Tesla didn't use those version. I know Synology NAS boxes had an issue with some Atom that would just die out of the blue...
@@burkey8037 You're not giving Rich enough credit with that 10% number.
Samcrac did u finish the Focus yet?😂
@@Samcrac I ran the numbers through my 5 intel atom netbook. The number don't lie bro.
This whole video sounds like a great reason for Right to Repair regulations (and subsequent customer litigation).
Especially in not only cars of all types but farm equipment and heavy Machines that cost stupid amounts to replace new over a bad arm or a motor going out.
Exactly, Tesla and apple are so smart they're dumb. Microsoft and android have apple online support but they still have not learned what the consumer really wants. Once I paid good money for your product, it's no longer yours, It's mines. And I should be able to do what the heck I want with it.
@@Lokey_8664 bro there is more truth in that statement what kind of world it would be if more people thought you
You really expect the new government to go against their paymasters.
Right to repair denial is actually being lead by Apple. Google it.
Rich, you just have to show us the model 3 van conversion when it's finished....otherwise just great work keep going ...
+
Haha no mentions nowhere on the Nvidia waffle chipset. 😮😲🤪
His channel is in the description. If you like the guy. Follow him.
he hasnt made a video in 9 months :(
Amazing - I don't own a Tesla ( can't afford one) but a Sprinter van... I love the fact that you're taking the deliberately irreparable and repairing it -Democracy of tech! Thankyou.
Cant wait till all the mohammedans who own many if not all corner stores, midbox stores , metroPCSs and Crickets get ahold of these little white utility vans with renewable tech...more money for them to take over more and more businesses and drive out the competition and introduce sharia law little by little.
Those wallets cost 70 bucks tho...no wonder you didn't get one with a money clip.
They shitty asf , go get a SecrID
why would any guy want to sit on a rock hard wallet?
Rich is loaded. And he’s pulling a bunch out of product endorsements like this one. Wise to enter the TH-cam economy.
@@RNRacres These hipsters like to put their "wallet" in their front pocket.
You can get the same wallets directly from china for around 7$
Feels like a Class Action waiting to happen.
Car kills over due to manufacturer negligence, who then forces an expensive replacement rather then just repair/replace the board they killed.
Sounds like how Apple treats it's "slaves".
Is America thing
Still waiting on it all.
Did you paint your car with primer?
"Why" goes in front of that question.
Bo don’t know.
Primer is a cool colour
The way Tesla treated me and other customers is why I sold mine. They lied to me about the ability to extend my warranty as well.
Please tell me your story. I need to hear this! All I can find online is only good things about Tesla which I find improbable!
@@mattjames8683 I'll tell you mine.. I bought my car used, while still under warranty. I took it in for service, and they said "Sure, we can sell you the extended warranty" only to find later that I could not buy the Tesla warranty because I bought my car used from a NON-Tesla wholesaler.
Can't see why that really makes a difference, but I guess it does to Tesla.
Jean-Claude AskMe obviously they are not gonna trust any one not from Tesla that doesn’t understand the technology and might end up fucking up something
Geeze, as a data engineer who works in Linux boxes most of my day, wtf? Why would you log every touch to the disk? If anything, if this logging is absolutely needed by a developer, it'd be better to store in memory, then batch the information over to disk periodically or event triggered whichever comes first before the load on memory is too much. Up till now, I've been fine with all the issues Rich has brought up as they're not something I'm concerned about due to Tesla warranty covering my purchase. However, this is different, this is their insufficient software to hardware coding that is going to screw me once I'm outside of normal warranty even though this is a design flaw. I don't care about panel gaps or any of that, but when you f'up the software, and the foot the bill onto me ... I now have an issue.
Totally agree. It's like Ford selling Pintos that they knew were hazardous. It's like GM destroying electric transit to sell more diesel buses. VW cheating emissions. In a nutshell corporations and their profit motives cant be trusted.
I think it is possible to write append-only log files to flash storage without excessive wear. But that requires custom file systems with low-level access through custom drivers, not through some FAT emulation hardware layer.
Besides, you usually want logs committed to non-volatile storage ASAP. If the system crashes or blacks out, losing data gathered right before the outage is really inconvenient. You may lose the most relevant clues that way.
@@tabbott429 Not quite the same thing when those were all about harm to life, health and/or environment. With the chip it's just inept obsolescence that'll cost the user bucks not life. It's gonna cost Tesla in the long run.
@@DiscoFang it's just ridiculous that companies leave things like this to be sold to the public at their expense. A screen failure in a Tesla is pretty major failure that makes the car much less functional so in a way it's kind of a serious flaw that they should've never left unfixed. I mean what computer company would design a part of their hardware to fail based on poor software code. They had to have been aware of this issue since that's what they do as a company.
@@tabbott429 Facts!
Here's my professional opinion as an embedded system's engineer : Logging to Flash == Rookie Mistake that should have been caught in reliability testing... rushed job?
It's okay to log to flash, as long as it's not in the final product.
Diego Spinola thats right. Its a rookie mistake or for Tesla it is on purpose to do that for the costumers crying in their doors. eMMC is the worst thing, even worse than SSD TLC. They should put an SLC level without lever wearing, like a server environment.
And for the last, why not a command to dumping storage memory because they are filling as much as they stay awake.
Of course. The lack of R&D associated with Tesla is astonishing.
Yep. I don’t get why Tesla doesn’t just employ automobile production engineers to sort all of this stuff out. Model after model continues to have problems that just should make it into the production models. I understand his willingness to push the envelope of what is possible has put them ahead of the game on electric cars and indeed on space launch systems too. But if Tesla continues on this road of building cars poorly and having outrageous repair costs once out of warranty, the company has no long term future because the other manufacturers will sort out the electrification soon enough. History is littered with car brands that died due to poor quality despite having brilliant designs.
Wrong. Probably the least expensive way Tesla could do it.
That guy should be crowned Tesla Repair God!
Tesla needs all the advice it can get. They build overpriced laptops on wheels that nobody can troubleshoot and they aren't build to last. Fun cars plagued by complex electronic systems.
Rich too!
He is clever af no question.
@@DigitalDissident Any car electric or not that has the same features is an overpriced laptop according to your logic ... most of the cars built today if they have any sort of collision avoidance system will have an similar processor unit it it for that purpose alone
And also dual crowned advertising Segway god
Irony...... Develop a car that is supose to help the enviroment yet they dont want to help develop the repair market to keep these vehicles from becoming environmental problems when they brakedown.
You gotta understand just like ford and Honda, Lexus, Toyota any major car company they didn’t train random people to fix there cars peopled study and did it themselves and opened up their own shops and hence your local mechanic or body shop! Our new generation is lazy an not hands on
Most of these people dont know is lithium is non renewable and their like nuclear isotopes. Lithium and electricity will hyperinflate when we go from 3% of the world to 90%+. Gas is cheaper and there multi uses for oil. Oil is projected to run out 150+ yrs while lithium we will run out by 2050 says economist and Elon Musk himself. Most people are fooled about climate.
I like to say that people who buy used vehicles or drive anything over 10yrs old are doing way better things for the EnViRoNmEnT than the wealthy snobs buying/leasing new cars & EVs semiannually. Same goes for many consumer products like smart phones. Hold onto what works.
@@lancedooley7558 oil is a horrible thing to be using.
@@things4yougaming723 you didn't have to be trained how to work on a Ford or Dodge or Chevy they're simple engines
Amazing that somebody's 4 year old car could stop working due to a $10 chip and tesla will give you the finger! Tesla and Apple seem to have a lot in common right now.
Hey, at least Apple engineers their obsolescence through software instead of hardware negligence... 😉
An SSD isn’t a 10 dollar chip. They’re faster and better than a hard drive which is great for an operating system like windows/OSX. How ever a hard drive will spin for years, an SSD will stop giving you instant access to files after you have saved/deleted over (written) to many times. They’re an expensive future but have a specific hardware purpose. I’m a hardware guy and get what Phil is saying. I have one in my computer to but I also have a hard drive...
Neither company are supporters of the 'Right to Repair' movement. Apple is not a fan of the iFixiT teardowns.
@MacBookemDanno this was an older car, considering the model S came out in 2012 it could of not been a bargain barrel option at the time. Tech improves fast. To lazy to go back and see which year the one he was initially talking about was but it was 2.0 or older aka early 2016 maybe earlier
@@amen_ra6926 bit more dangerous to work on a 480V battery pack then an iphone though. And since a tesla charges at 150kW thats even more scary. Last thing tesla needs is a salvaged handy man rebuild catching on fire, they already have enough fires as is. 150kW is an insane amount of power by the way, that could power 100 non restricted regular outlets and most appartment buildings with 30-40 suites. Its annoying that they are difficult about it but they do have some legit reasons. Tesla doesn't have the resources to make sure every salvaged title is repaired properly by a backyard mechanic. Doesn't mean the backyard guys can't do it right but theres always that risk.
Damn this video was super interesting! Thanks for interviewing Phil!
Super red flag why people shouldnt dump a years salary into a laptop on wheels filled with complex electronics that few can troubleshoot. I like EVs but these need to be build with more long term ownership in mind. Ive only ever bought used cars so I probably will never have a Tesla because without a warranty they're risky. Corporations will continue to build for profit, not the environment or consumer...
Wow, That was 100% Tesla Geekness to the second power .....I LOVED IT!!! Thank you Rich
I like the acceleration that EVs offer, the low center of gravity, extra storage, lack of oil, & less moving parts which should make them more reliable. Unfortunately EVs & most new cars are being made with complex computer systems or bad design. I'm waiting for EVs built with long term durability & easy maintenance in mind. My dream EV would be something like the Tesla Roaster, a coupe, but affordable. I personally don't care at all for touch screens, self driving, SUVs, or tech gimmicks like electric doors.
My head is spinning becouse of al the Teslas
Great guy.. knows his stuff.
woah i was confused for a moment, thought you were me
I would use "e"
I want to love Tesla and their cars are stellar, but this gives me pause. The right to repair thing is pretty key to me and drives me nuts even on something like a phone or a laptop. I can only imagine having a small electronic board go out due a single bad eMMC chip, and having Tesla tell you it costs $5k out of warranty and you have to replace the whole massive screen and computer etc.
The entire reason to be afraid to buy a new car (EV) right there. Getting scammed my multibillion dollar companies seems to be the order of the day.
@@tabbott429 huh. Nobody is scamming anyone.
Don’t get me wrong, this kind of behavior from Tesla drives me nuts. But, there are guys like this and other 3rd parties that work to solve these issues until the mfg pulls their head out of their rear.
If something breaks and you wanna fix it they can give you the best price in the market cous they are the one doing it. I’m you go to a service center they might charge you extra. Plus a chips are really cheap
@@gideoncloza6553 lol tesla isn't going to solder on a new flash chip they're just going to replace the whole unit and charge you for it.
"This isn't even my final form". ...I see you and I respect that 🤣👏🏾
ssj6
I smiled when he said that
As someone that worked in the electronics industry for over 35 years the wear problem on the nonvolatile memory is unusual but not that uncommon... what surprises me is that they are not immediately addressing the issue. It’s not that hard to fix and should be a low-risk change.
Sometimes I love this channel just because it reminds me to hang on to my 45 year-old car.
69 vw bug
@@toddlert1519
2001 Nissan Altima. Air bags and nothing else to break, burn, getting obsolete. Bullet proof car. A true KISS car.
I absolutely treasure my Ford 14 Model T.
Same. 71 chevelle Malibu as my daily driver when not riding the 20 year old Harley Evo. Old stuff is the best.
83 mercedes 300d. so glad I don't have any of these issues!
Rich, I just want to say that before I started watching your videos I was one of those idiots that thought Tesla was the answer to the question: "What does the future look like?" I was very close to getting a Model X without realizing that when you "buy" a Tesla you're not actually "buying" anything. You're paying Tesla to drive THEIR car around until THEY decide they don't want you to drive it or charge it anymore, but then they won't give you anything back for your money. THANK YOU!!
It's amazing how Tesla, being such a huge company and started by someone who without a doubt is a genius, doesn't realize that they are the "Apple" of car companies (who are in themselves the "Sears" and "Blockbuster" of companies). And if they think I'm paying them a compliment by calling them the "Apple" of car companies...look into the history of the other two and get back to me.
The one thing those companies had in common is that they were all impossibly dominant in their markets and eras and there was no challenging them, until someone did. Then all the people they pissed off over time came out of the woodwork and DESTROYED them.
You have saved many people a lot of money and time and frustration. I can't become a patron right now, but I can at least subscribe and watch your ads.
I'm no longer one of those Tesla-starry-eyed idiots any more...now I'm just a plain idiot. So thank you....I think.
@ 12:30 So basically, Tesla uses your chip to gather information to further development then they charge you $2000 to $5000 to replace the screen after they use up your chip. ...Nice...
Everything they have done has been at consumer expense with very little support or warranty..
No, their developers don't turn off their debug before they put it on the car. And if you are unlucky it will break your car and they will charge you for a new full unit (I assume: if it is out of warranty). This debug will never go to Tesla, it's just dump to the chip without ever anyone needing to read it.
I doubt that they ever use those logs from the cars in the field. The logging is just left on as a vestige of the verification process. No one dares to turn them off after verification.
Planned planned obsolescence with plausible deniability. If they don’t address it than is there any other conclusions that can be made.
@@rafal5863 it's not only planned obsolescence but moreso that they retain 100 percent of the control of the asset even though you paid for it. They extort you for more money or the car becomes a paperweight. New tech is the catalyst leading us into total global control via technology. Crazy how fast it's being brought about
Considering that Tesla still is burning through their money, fast, they need to grasp for straws to keep the company alive as it is now. Musk put tons of his money in, repeatedly, they had the big IPO, and now Musk was/is collecting capital again. Even though Teslas are selling more than they produce.
Probably one of the most informative Tesla videos I've seen.
So nobody noticed the DMC DeLorean just chilling above?
oh, I did
This one with two Model 3 motors would be awesome 😮
It's just hovering up in the air BTTF2
Yep
Ryan M probably did.
Rich, that the insurance cost for Tesla owners is high because of Tesla's policy not to support the second-hand market is super important. Something you need to emphasize in your upcoming videos. That is a big insight that Phil brought up, I don't think you picked up on the importance.
You're absolutely right there's parts availability issues labor issuesessentially everything you don't have with another car when a Tesla gets rear-ended it gets fucked up yeah your Honda does too but it's not the same
I don't think you pay attention either. Tesla is just following Apples business model on non OEM parts. Why is the Apple watch the only watch available?
@@kerrylawley Insurance cost is trivial for an $800 consumer product, not the case for an expensive vehicle. You are comparing Apples to Teslas.
He cant hack tesla! he has a FULL TIME JOB!
Be ironic if his *full time job* was hacking Tesla...
Then he couldn't securely work on his Teslas full time because he was *working full time* at Tesla testing security.
he quit his job... chk the interview on the joe rogan podcast. boss wouldnt give him the time off to do Rogan...so he quit.
00Billy we see who was more important in that ultimatum lol
NOT ANYMORE
#Unemployed
This guy you interviewed is a straight up mad genius. Great video!
Tesla is watching this video drawing up a cease letter😂😂😂😂😂😂
They can try but the courts have ruled that you have the right to work on your own car or have someone work on it on your behalf and Tesla can go pound sand.
@@pogo1140
Didnt work for the farmers and john deere.
I used to like deere, but not this new way they do business.
@@pogo1140 Right-to-repair laws aren't nationwide yet, unfortunately.
@@CWINDOWSsystem32 Tesla among others signed a memorandum of understanding that the provisions of Massachusetts Right to Repair law would apply to all auto manufacturers in all 50 states.
This is why you can now purchase parts from Tesla and why their repair manuals and tools are now available.
Tesla however is trying to do an end run around this by limiting access to their software and diagnostic software.
@@pogo1140 "go pound sand" ... love it.
I don’t even like Tesla. But I love Rich Rebuilds and never miss a video. This guy got me thinking Tesla swapping my Cadillac is a good idea. Keep up the good work Rich.
This Channel is absolutely great, thank you Rich Rebuilds! I wish you success and the best for your business!! ;-)
OMG! You interrupted him when he was about to say what Tesla's answer to that was, and I've been wanting to find that out for SEVEN YEARS! OMG! NOW I WILL NEVER KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've advocated for this issue for YEARS!
This was suuuper interesting! I could watch a lot more of this. :)
I see a class action happening around those MMC chips failing.
Ha! Funniest comment I read today. Tesla is a government propped up company. No lawsuit will ever happen.
This was excellent work Rich, great format. This was some next level hacking. A Model 3 Sprinter, that is just so damn cool. We love your new 'full time job'.
So after the warranty has expired, the prudent thing to do is have logging turned off.
Rich, Regarding the Sprinter, did you loan him use your kitchen knife for that project?
As for chip updates, maybe they need to look at AMD Raydeon & Ryzen? Just asking.
Thnx 4 the info. Say Hi to the kids.
tony monastiere you don’t need that much grunt to run the display. I am surprised they did not go with an arm chip with much more power efficiency. It restrict the software stack possibilities I guess.
@@rafal5863 Nvidia Tegra is ARM chip, and new HW v3 have 8 core ARM build in, but ARM and x86 are to different instruction set, so you can't easly move software between them. But maybe they working on it, because why they add 8c ARM on HW v3?
...umm that logging issue causing the cars to die sounds like a perfect case for a class action lawsuit. Defective design that basically guarantees the car will die ~4 years, easily solved, and Tesla refuses to cover it or even fix it at a reasonable cost. This is typical recall territory.
Good luck with that as Tesla/Elon is propped up by the federal government.
Wow, how ridiculous!! I was looking at using a nvme ssd as a landing spot for my data pipeline of 10GB/s - After looking at the specs of several high-end models, I quickly realized that the SSD wouldn't last me a year of continual use - come on Tesla, true embedded SW engineers would know to look for such things, especially Unix/Linux guys! I guess their quality department realized, it'll be out of warranty, and let this slide. sad.
Well, the hardware guys thought: Nah, they won't write exessive stuff to that chip, they take care about it.
The software guys tought: Well, this chip is fancy pancy. Lets write exessive logs to it, it's so friggin fast and will last forever...
Aaaand now we are here.
Jens Harbers hahaha sounds like a team of new grads were given the job of building a Tesla - man, talk about luck!! I wish I had that opportunity as a new grad! :-)
@@teamsalvation In every development I've worked so far that's what happened.
The Hardware guys don't talk to the software people and vice versa. At the end everybody thinks damnit, how could this happen. And then everybody points their finger at each other "Their fault".
Seen that happening often...:D
It's as if wear levelling was not really a dealt with. Considering that logs are mostly append-only files, so overwrites and deletions are relatively infrequent, I find that underwhealming.
Herman Robak ok, then you’ll run out of space, the part is “junked” but it’s otherwise perfectly good since there was only ever a single write performed to each “sector”.
This explanation makes me think they’re even more “green” than I previously though.
If you’re only ever appending with no mechanisms to loop (overwrite) then obviously you’re going to run out of space at some point - what them? Cause the car to stop working ... sure, why not. Good idea. It’s not like people’s lives are at stake.
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
7:30
Had no idea the p85 rear drive was so cooling compromised. Is it possible to mod in a supplemental heat exchanger that can forcefully circulate coolant faster?
you can mod anything with a welder and a machinist. Add a oil cooler with a pump
@@Nordic_Mechanic
Yes but you'd have to like, cut into the oil passages in the motor, stick on a secondary oil pump, route through a heat exchanger, and fill up with extra oil to compensate
The Sprinter van is cool, but I'm more interested in the Delorean and the 1968 Dodge A100 van at 0:12 ^^
Wow. Every video I watch of yours, just shows me another reason NOT to consider buying a Tesla, NEW OR USED!!! Thanks for being so open and honest about your experiences with Tesla.
That Sprinter Van reminds me of Cain from Robo Cop when they transplanted his brain and spinal cord in a robot.
Phil is like a walking Tesla knowledge coding book, but working independent, doesn't work for them, can't rely on the team support, and open access. I respect people like this.
Your comment made me think of Julian Assange, slandered by the media, imprisoned, and falsely accused for helping to reveal government secrets & corruption. God I hate censorship too, Google tracks everything through code.
@@DigitalDissident Assange did some amazing work then hosed his legacy by collaborating with the Russians. He made a real mess of it and it's a damn shame. But still, he helped to re-establish whistleblowing as a tool of democracy and I hope he'll be punished lightly in spite of that. He won't though, he's going to be thrown in prison for the rest of his life which is wrong.
Are you recording me record him? 😂
That's why the Delorean is at the shop
When he showed all the cables I backed away!
Good luck with that one!
The Model S and X both use Induction Motors, meanwhile the Model 3 uses a Permanent Magnet Alternating Current Motor. PMAC motors have better power density than Induction Motors)(can be smaller in size, but make just as much power as a bigger Induction motor)
Aaron Green Actually no, S/X were upgraded to Permanent Magnet motors a few days ago.
@@jonetech5324 still, a vast majority on the road utilize the Induction motor.
Very interesting. The MCU on my S died for that exact reason. I had to pay CHF3500 for a new one. I was livid since the car was only 2000km out of warranty when it happened. Not only that but it had died twice in the previous 2 months but they were able to recover it then. The staff were quite rude to me and made me feel like it was my fault, even after admitting it was a common problem. It’s made me think twice about getting a new one.
On the plus side, when I asked for the old MCU they gave it back to me.
I would love to know how to turn off the Linux logging.
Paul Shadwell I feel this information should be known more broadly. Staff probably don’t know what they are talking about either
I’m in this boat right now
Very typical, I'm dealing with the exact same situation
@@TenHorizons To me it actually looks like staff are specifically trained to deal with the issues like this
that's why he calls is self Rich rebuilds 70 bucks wallet cost 3 bucks or 1 pound all the way from Republic of China
How can u ask is the model 3 drive unit enough to power the van? it's far more powerful than Mercedes offers. I would have thought that someone who owns a Tesla has a clue about its power.
Hey Rich, did you paint your tesla in primer?
He did, it just has to dry then he will add color and clear coat😂
Tesla would find Australian consumer law a total pain as not only is there a statutory warranty period but the implied warranty, which can mean that the memory failure would be seen as a factory fault and covered.
That's gonna be one fast Sprinter.... dare I say it, it will Sprint???
itz not gonna be that fast...its just a base model 3 drivetrain....and is a heavier car
@Trigger Troll In stop and go driving under 50 mph it should see over 200 miles. At 75 mph 120 miles max.
Stock Sprinter drivetrain is 188 hp and either 258 lb-ft or 325 lb-ft (gas/diesel). (Dynoed) Model 3 RWD before OTA update, 325 hp and 320 lb-ft. Quicker, but not amazingly so, once the 75 kWh pack is accounted for.
Wow. Phil is unreal. How has he acquired so much knowledge in such a short time. Serious respect to this genius. Great work by you too Rich, especially finding people like this.
Mr Big-time made it on Rogan's podcast. Congratulations!
I watched every second of that interview... It was great!
Love Phil. I have known him for years. He helped me on a bunch of issues with my series 1 prius. He can fix anything.
That guy is spot on and knows exactly what he's talking about. GREAT video, Kudos Rich. I hope they fix this. And frankly I do think it's a beginner mistake. Still, I love my Model 3.
Just when I thought I was a computer nerd, Phil goes to a completely next level. Would love to be able to intern for someone like him b/c so much knowledge would be gained. Great video, Rich and get back safely to Massachusetts!
The more I see Tesla videos, the more I think They're just not worth the hassle. Just sayin.
It's the type of car you never really own or can expect to operate without direct contact with the "mothership " long term. It's basically a continuous monthly payment.
Lease, never buy
@@garlandstrifeTeslas or any car? Leasing cars forever sounds awful.
@@Darnelj1 any luxury brand. It's by no means awful, you pay a fixed amount per month to drive a brand new car every few years. It's pretty practical if you have a steady income or have a business. If you're short of money it's much better to buy an used Toyota or Honda.
I don't think anyone appreciates the magnitude of this issue. The display subsystem on EVERY single Tesla produced will stop working when that MMC card wears out, even on the model 3's. It's just a matter of time. Elon needs to provide a solution that doesn't involve replacing the whole subsytem out of warranty for $2 to $5k a pop. This is insane.
This is planned obsolescence.
Anyone fed up with the 'I just bought a model 3' videos on youtube?! Rich please upload more content like this
It’s coming baby
The "service after the sale" is what will Kill Tesla. Their attitude towards customers is the same the Big Three were in the 1970's.
The same attitude that have 80% of the US car market to the Japanese.
This channel continues to set new standards .. Great job
When putting a Tesla in a van like this and you put the sensors in they will inevitably be in a different spot. Will that require calibration and how would you do that?
Esk8 Teen I think that’s the biggest concern with self modification. Everyone likes to hate Tesla for their Anti repair policy (which is worsened when they have a backlog of repairs) but having amateurs placing sensors in different places and self fixing these machines could be extremely dangerous when autopilot becomes the standard.
Tesla is gonna offer this guy a salary to stop talking to rich😂😂😂😂😂
That Nissan Leaf based portable EV charger looks awesome!
Meanwhile, over on Tatooine, Phil's brother is helping Luke modify an R2 droid.
DISCREETLY EPIC! Nice one, bro! Your Comment Made my day!
So pay $50000 on an electric car to save on buying gas. But pay $2500 every 3 to 4 every years and pay double on insurance rates. I'm not entirely convinced with that information of buying a Model 3 yet.
right to repair, start a petition!
and what's that gonna do. it could never work. it would hold back progress, for better or worse, because you cant produce everything in a way that some dude with a workbench can repair it, and you cant expect companies to offer services and parts to everyone. Tesla has been on the brink of extinction for almost all the years since it started, only by Musk repeatedly injecting his money, with the IPO and with newly collected investment capital, it has managed to stay alive- even though their cars are crazy expensive and are loved. If you add laws that require them to offer what is necessary to guarantee a right to repair they will close doors the next day.
@@maxmeier532 Why not? Things that are easily accessible to be repaired by the end user have been produced for decades, and they still are. The right-to-repair movement is about giving more freedom to the end user and taking control away from the corporation. If the corporation can't survive without holding their customers hostage, then let them die.
@@CWINDOWSsystem32 how about just buying a different car.
korbitr There may be 2 broad possibilities to this. One side is that Tesla is obsessed about controlling and pricing everything, in which people/parties will definitely deal with and solve eventually (they’re just a car company, I think Elon is smart enough to realise that) unless Elon gets his way and actually is left to be to revolutionise the Energy industry, which is amazing but we deal with these things as a tradeoff (Tesla will face competition so it won’t get too bad). Remember that Elon is not an angel. Check up his history and I believe you’ll agree. People will do something about it don’t worry, I just sympathise with people who put so much trust in Elon (including me).
Second, this is a non-critical issue Tesla is leaving aside for now. They realised this issue and will fix it but the company is on the brink of collapse and Elon and other heads are directed to put more time on more important stuff (likely not even informed about this issue). Issues with the company definitely pile up to such a degree Elon (and other executives) can’t go through all of them, or manpower is directed to focus on breakthrough technologies.
Other probabilities probably lie within these 2 possibilities is the form of a spectrum. As a potential tesla investor, my take is to sit back and watch the show. It’s like investing in Apple, they make dumb mistakes that are frustrating, but do so well that you still put money in them. Apple can afford to disrupt the market and make dumb mistakes precisely because they make money and have such a large bank behind them though if they don’t get better people will leave. An example would be big oil. Lacks progress, pollutes environment, just dumb, antique and yuck, but we won’t have the world today without them. Big factor why they have so much money to burn on tesla stocks, and if that can’t stop tesla they still can burn money to change industries. Such is karma. Don’t like it? Run your own company.
Has the logging issue been fixed on new hardware/software as of October 2019 or is this still unresolved?
People complain that Tesla won't support certain cars under certain circumstances, but look what that has done. It's opened up an industry for other people. I like it. Thanks for sharing.. great video.
They probably thought they were smart with that move, but they underestimated people.
goes to show that when people want something theyll get it one way or another. Same goes with other control laws or encryption
We need such videos, Rich! Don't stop interviewing such intelligent beings.
Was it not t h e US that made the OBD2 plug so everything could be diagnosed?
Also what happening with that DeLorean on the ramp?
4 CAN buses, so you's need 4 plugs.
@@AZOffRoadster can you use it on Tesla's? And is that now the standard for all cars?
I really appreciate these videos and the truth that they reveal. I have been looking for reasons to buy a Tesla but after watching these videos made by a third party I find reasons to not buy a Tesla. Proprietary parts, no secondary support, long wait times for repair parts in the event of a wreck etc.
12:51 Android has Linux subsystem logging just like what's shown on that laptop a few minutes ago. The command is logcat to view it. You can use adb to see it.
It's logging to non-violate memory I think and not extensively, but yes it does log things, but they're not stored like in that CPU of the cars, if you can say so.
Here because of your amazing job on the JRE, and I'm not even a "car guy". Love it and wish you nothing but more success!
"I'm sticking the tech and running gear from a Tesla 3 into a Mercedes Sprinter Van" *Elon Musk spits his coffee out and copyrights the idea as his own*
Thanks to both for this valuable information.
I take my hat off to both.
Keep this information channel open. 👍👍👍
Wish Phil had a website so we could find out how much diagnostic access costs.
Agreed. Just had the exact emmc problem on my Model S.
@@DanLow85 Do yourself a favor and just make money doing what you do best, and use that money to have Tesla fix your problem rather than spending your time on some odd forums and have some random dude fix your hardware without any option that he is even remotely able to guarantee you your Tesla wont kill you after installing the unit.
Once the warranty is done, can you guys uncork a Dual Motor Model 3 to Performance model specs if someone was willing to give up Tesla updates?
Phil uses Linux and works closely with hardware... Yes, he's a hacker in my book!
If you need to do actual work on the computer there is just one OS can actually do that and it's Linux.
Love Rich and his channel but I am certainly not a fan of Ingineer, Others including myself have voiced our concerns about him being in control of the entire fleet he's rooted. You aren't fixing the car, you are screwing yourself into relying on one person with full access to the car who won't give it to you. If something screws up, you need to pay whatever he asks if you want it fixed.
@Deon Denis Picking my poison would be either rooting it myself or having someone like Ingineer give you root access to maintain your own car rather than be in control indefinitely. As I haven't used his services, I can only give my genuine feelings on how they are operated from a long glance. You can find more unhappy people here with stories that should at least make you think twice. teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/salvage-car-owners-support-group.61332/page-13
@Deon Denis wk057 and Ingineer used to be a few of the only folks offering such services but that's changed over the last couple years. There's a few online instructions for rooting your own Tesla but it's obviously not for those without any background knowledge on coding and/or linux.
@@DanRossGraphics You're paying for a service that Tesla won't supply anymore. I mean what else are you going to do?
At least if the guy can be held accountable for what he does, then it should all be fine. It's not like he can pull some crazy "all cars crash" shenanigans without dozens of people pointing their fingers at him.
proud to say i've been here since you had close to no subs & youtube demons were bashing you for your work. you came a long way man keep it up
Cool. Can I have a picture of what you ate for lunch? Is it on Facebook? SMH....
"It has a money clip option which I didn't go with, because I have no money"
ME *notices Tesla in the foreground*
Was that an electric Deloren?
Isn't the OBD-II connector and a baseline of info mandatory?
@No Thanks but if it was there (properly implemented), customers wouldn't need to ship him the card to enable diagnostic mode/page... Right?
I think that you can replace the EMMC with a SD card slot.
I know that you can solder (BGA) an EMMC to a passive adapter board so it can be used as a SD card, so it sold work in reverse.
Might be a thing to consider :)
But it might be a whole lot of work for nothing when he can just stop the linux logg...
But for the already broken boards it might still be an alternative :)
It'd work, Though just turning off the logging is even easier as you said.
Problem is.. it does not change how the cars are continuing to be made with this hidden flaw.
Or to put it simply: Instead of fixing it.. They could avoid it altogether.
15:47
Tesla + DeLorean?
Autopilot + time travel?
Is this guy's name Emmett Brown?
Congratulations on the fantastic JRE Podcast! EPIC! 1
Epic? GTFO. It was dull as fuck. Not RIch's fault but what do I care about Rich politely asking Joe about hunting to continue the smalltalk. You have a Tesla repairing dude like Rich on your podcast, talk about him and his life. Joe just gets lit and always repeats the same shit, I hunt with a bow blabla, Elk meat, blabla, MMA, blabla, News Radio blabla, back when I was on Fear Factor, blabla. He is hardly ever really interested in his guests.
Great video. I will never get a tesla but i love the knowledge rich..thanks😊😊😊😊😊😊
Same.
A $30K Tesla Roadster would be killer though. Or when my ICE dies EV conversion, probably too expensive though. The B6 Passat I drive is so streamlined and rounded, would make a cool EV.
I helped build the "mars rover" with Parker Brother Concepts. We used the drivetrain and frame from a Nissan Leaf. We had no clue if that motor was going to push that 6 ton monster. But it did.
Interesting to see the chip I'm working on, on this channel. The company I work for supplies some chips for use in Teslas (newer S & X, model 3). We have a couple of these Tesla boards at work to test with. I was hoping you guys wouldn't complain about our chips, and luckily you didn't.
The storage burning out is actually something we pay close attention to. I recently implemented a new feature on a different chip, which would save some data every time an API call was made. It was necessary to write, since the data needs to persist after boot. To ensure that this burning out of storage doesn't happen, we calculated how much write cycles we'd realistically generate and made sure we had a couple orders of magnitude to spare over the lifespan of the chip. Interesting that Tesla didn't not think about this early on, or at least did not enforce countermeasures.
Ah well... What can you do?
In case you missed this yesterday, Tesla announced that they will cover replacement costs of failed 8GB eMMC chips present in older Model S & X vehicles (up to 8 years or 100K miles). Very glad to see Tesla finally step up & take care of this issue, but don't understand the cap on age / mileage given this problem not a matter of if, but when... www.tesla.com/support/adjusted-coverage-program
Damn, that guy is a legit hacker. The definition of the word itself!
Amazing!
one thing , about the logging. if in a crash, every hint would be valuable. ram logging doesn't help when out of power. directly to storage ASAP is the only way. and if in life critical applications ( driving ) you cant put a price.
That makes sense, but then it begs the question of why they didn't put it on the SD card instead.
@@javaguru7141 1st gen, didn't have an sd card slot, as far as i understood, so it all went to flash. 2nd gen with the sdcard could be useful, but, looking it from latency perspective(search "one cpu cycle=one second" infographics), internal NAND will be faster, sd probably runs over some usb hub, they probably want to keep every info down to the last nanosecond in case of an accident. if you seen Tesla autonomy day video, they talk about the 99.999999...% of cases, so thinking with that 99,999...% in mind, if it was me, would need every bit of info i could get from a crash. I would rather have an electric component fail (even a car not starting ), than not having the full log down to nanosecond from a crash. ( flash memory will be cheaper and bigger and in some years we won't even care )
That makes sense regarding first gen not having a slot. From the latency perspective I don't think that'd be a problem here since by the time the computer loses power due to a fire or main switch cutoff the useful data will have been written to disk already as long as the latency can be measured in milliseconds and the write speed is adequate. But I do think you may be right that it's an intentional design decision, it's hard for me to find a solid reason though.
@@javaguru7141 being a fan of Elon, i can think of the dialogue,
engineer: we can log everything but it wear out the flash.
Elon: just log everything. period. we will need every bit to make it perfect.
Engineer: ok degug=everything
@@steliospap9887 But according to the video, the logs in question aren't used by Tesla at all normally and can't be read remotely. The ones Tesla uses are stored on the SD card already.
This is such a well known issue in the SBC communities, it would defy logic that nobody pointed this out internally.
I am sure the decision was made to do it that way because it was the lowest cost way to do it.
Can we have more interviews like these, please? This is one of your best yet. Thanks Rich.
$390 a month just in insurance for my model 3 awd
DeadBySpider holy shit! I have full coverage on 2018 Tundra Crewmax/2019 4 Runner Off Road & 2009 civic for $195 month.
Fascinated that he says the Model 3 is the better car. People like myself previously got all hung up on the Model S because one would think it's because it's their flagship model. That the 3 actually has better cooling is intriguing.