Randy, this is just what I needed today. Hahaha! Much better than I had thought it might be. I f 'n loved the "snowflake speaker" comment about the Kef LS50's!!!! So true.! Everything you said was right on. And your attitude was so genuine and down to earth common sense. I was like, "Yeah, about time someone said this". Anyway, loved it. I also enjoyed the interview with the Schitt man you and your friend did. You did an awesome job. I'm glad Schitt moved to Corpus Christi. God bless Texas! ✌️
A lot of yes , no and maybe here? Yes there’s lots of subjectivity with playback systems and ones perceptions and preferences. And there’s no way to know exactly (that’s prob subjective too) how recording engineers intended things, if at all! Still, my senses tastes and experiences still tell me that Haagendaz is better than Breyers, a Gordon Ramsey burger is super to Mcdonnalds, Armani is better than Gap, and 25 year old McKellen is superior to Jonny Walker black label! NO, we can’t actually define “accurate sounding!” However, my senses , imagination, and experience can decipher what’s likely closest sounding to what’s capable of any given recording, as played through what I consider better tools
The companies that sell the gear are worse than the audiofools. Forget Hi-Fi, the best thing I ever did was to buy some active studio monitors, these are as accurate as you can get for speakers and amplification. My $250 M-audio BX5 active monitors outperform my $1200 Hi-Fi! And M-Audio isn't even the best manufacturer out there.
I used to buy into the whole “audiophile” scene but after getting more into recording and studio gear (now using Genelec monitors and RME for DAC), I’ve realized not only does consumer hi-fi stuff has a ton of hype priced into it, almost nobody talks about how at a certain point, the acoustic treatment of a room plays a bigger role than incrementally improving the gear.
just get a headphone then the room not so important anymore lol the thing about crazy priced audiophile gear is they are not intended for you unless if you are super rich and own a mansion specifically renovated for audiophile purpose with house pricing flew through the sky nowadays and everyone cramped in one small apartment its becoming very difficult hence the closed back headphone route is the way to go
@@loucipher7782 I know this reply probably wasn’t just meant for my use case, but since you replied to this thread, I’ll say for the recording hobbyist you really have to do both; very few people do recording and mixing entirely in headphones, and if like me you are recording instruments and vocals, you have to do at least some acoustic treatment anyway. It’s unfortunately not a cheap hobby any way you cut it.
@@raydollete444 i was under the impression that audiophile only goes one way, the listening part and in vocal recording mostly people use closed back headphones anyway so there wont be double sounding? atleast thats what i saw in every artist MV. Anyway its good to have the best of both worlds if you can do it, i'm not against it or anything but it will certainly cost more
My favorite line of BS from self proclaimed audiophiles is in relation to CD drives. The notion that highly accurately controlled speed is somehow necessary for "good" sound reproduction from a disc transport is simply amazing. It's almost as if they don't know and are incapable of understanding that the only thing the transport does is spin the disc so that the laser can read the coded information, which included the time reference. That information is then buffered in software memory and decoded by the DAC. The simple fact is that with enough memory and power the transport could spin at 10,000 RPM for a few seconds to read all the info, and then stop moving completely for the duration of the music playing.
A few years ago, I saw an audiophile claim that there were tangible differences in the audio, being streamed from different brands of hard drive, along with a "review" of the audio qualities of several different hard drives. I for one really like the warmth and glow I get from the ones and zeros on Seagate drives. I find it adds a pleasing cromulence to the treble frequencies. Of course I only use gold plated USB cables, so that the ones and zeros come out all polished and shiny, and in a pleasing san-serif font
@@raydollete444 It has never been true. One of the great selling points when CDs first came out was that they were "skip proof". This was because they spun the disc and buffered the code for several seconds in hardware/software before they actually started playing. Yes, I remember some transports with fancy clamps and other geegaws, but they were all just so much snake oil to attempt to make a given product look "better" to the consumer boost profit margins. Don't get me wrong, in the early days there truly were some that were much better than others. Some did have truly atrocious mechanicals that were prone to outright failure, but mainly due to the limitations of memory and processing power available for reasonable costs, but consistency of the speed of the disc was never a factor
@@edbennett8257 Different CD mechanisms do affect ripping accuracy. I buy CDs, then rip to FLAC. The FLAC can then be compressed to MP3 or what have you. Some old CDs I have are on their way to data heaven (bit rot), and these present more problems for some CD mechanisms I have used.
@@boggisthecat True, but it is merely a difference in firmware, not speed stability. Some drives oversample more than others, and some have better laser focus which allow them to compensate for corrupted bits, scratches, or other damage. I was speaking strictly about stable speed of the drive affecting the playback quality in the same way that variations in turntable speed will cause wow and flutter. Wow and flutter do not exist for CD drives, unless the quartz timing chips in the hardware are defective and causing variations in decoding.
I'm an engineer who has worked in the "premium brand" electronics industry for almost 2 decades. There are a limited number of manufacturers of components--most products trying to achieve the same function use the same parts or another manufacturer's version of the same parts. Also remember that no matter the sales price, the motivation of the manufacturer is always to minimize cost. While there are quality differences between semiconductors, it's usually much more of a longevity issue than a functional issue. Resistors, Capacitors, and Inductors are where you may "hear" effects. The digital stuff either works or it doesn't. You either have a good design or you don't. Most "premium" brands are virtually indistinguishable in actual function and parts selection from the mass-consumer stuff. Often, they are the same thing with "badge engineering" (change the name and charge 5x the price). A lot of well known brands are owned by the same companies and designed by the same engineers using the same parts. Sometimes, companies will sell the same product under several different brands to capture the "brand loyalty" factor of consumers. There are a few products out there specifically engineered to be better in some respects, but it is a lot of diminishing returns. I personally hate the term "audiophile" because there has been so much snake-oil. $50K speaker wires, magic spray that gives your CDs that "warm, analog sound" (which is not only impossible, but is admitting that people are chasing a particular colored sound as opposed to "purity"). I once saw an article where a guy said his friend gave him his old $10K speaker wires because he got some $20K speaker wires. He said he couldn't hear any difference (I'd say you could use Romex and most people couldn't hear the difference). He said his dog seemed to like the sound of the new speaker wires, which confirmed something he'd always suspected: his dog has better hearing than him.
I have a degree in electronics, microprocessor technology, basic wiring systems, basic electrical fundamentals, and industrial electrical systems. You're spot on. Copper is probably still the best way to go for transmitting info to the speakers, then it's the gauge of the wire. Beyond that, it's really silly to over analyze to the point of idiocy. Sure there are quality tolerances in resistors, capacitors and such, but most ears can't hear the difference. One exception I have found, is in coils. Especially the larger ones. But that's more in the quality of the build, (solder joints, base assembly and such), and not the materials. Again, copper is copper.
I can add a lot more "Warmth" with the RC20 VST, which is something that ACTUALLY AFFECTS AUDIO than some b.s. magic placebo spray or some pricey cables.
@Regulus --- Quark: I want you to try something for me. Take a sip of this. Garak: What is it? Quark: A human drink. It's called root beer. Garak: I don't know. { Garak scowls/snears } Quark: Come on. Aren't you just a little bit curious? { Garak sighs, and cautiously drinks... } Quark: What do you think?Garak: It's vile. Quark :I know. It's so bubbly and cloy and happy. { Garak smiles slowly as Quark speaks } Garak: Just like the Federation. Quark: But you know what's really frightening? If you drink enough of it, you begin to like it. Garak: It's insidious. Quark: Just like the Federation. Garak: Do you think they'll be able to save us? Quark:I hope so.
When I first got into audio I found a lot of snake oil pretty quickly. For me, it came down to this. The difference between the 2-5K systems from the audio store and the $700 rack system at the big box store was night and day. The difference between the 2-5K systems and the 50K systems was the difference between 12 noon and 12:15 pm. $15K speaker cables are a big ass red flag to me. I call that product a "stupid tax."
Honestly, you can spend shitloads of money on hardware.. but many don’t focus on controlling your listening environment/room which is way more important. I could have a 15k-20k setup but have some wild nulls/etc, to me that’s stupid as fuck. In essence your equipment is not working properly. I’ll take a 3k setup including studio monitors + sub, DAC, and regular xlr wires, but in a properly treated room (doesnt mean a dead room). Taking that over 20k worth in audiophile equipment. Tbf, properly treating a room can cost a lot too.
Way too often, that is the case. Especially cable makers. Basic level is $400.00 for a good pair of interconnects, and their premium ones are $8000.00 ?? Most of us know what the bastards are doing.
Audiophiles spend so much time listening for what they have been told to hear they stop enjoying the music. The best upgrade I ever made was few pints of good beer then every thing sounds awesome.
I once was told by a unknown stranger that he once was intoxicated by THC while listening to his favorite music, and the experiece of the music was at least twice as good then without being stoned. But since he do not want to be addicted to drugs he started to spend his money on very expensive cables and cable lifters searching for audiophile nirvana.
@kenny hintz Of course the difference is audible. I have sensitive ears too, way above what they should be at my age. Ear fatigue is a real thing, I get it too when listening to early or badly made cd's. Very odd feeling, you can feel it, but can't put your finger exactly on what is the problem. What people like about tube gear is the distortion of the sound. If digital distortion gets you tired and annoyed, tube distortion will get you relaxed. The same with vinyl records, they have the special "ability" to make sound flow like water. It is much harder to do this with digital recordings. The problem is when things are taken too far, and absurd claims are made. Now tell me, how many guys do you know who turn down the lights and enjoy a couple of hours of music in their living room at least once a week? How many do you know who enjoy tasting a fine wine? Or a good book?
My AVR (Yamaha), record player (Audio Technica), and 5.1 speaker setup (Sony bookshelves and Klipsch 12" sub) cost about $1000 altogether, maybe a little more. It sounds terrific to me, I enjoy listening to music and movies on it. I don't think upgrading a single component would make me any happier.
I get shat on over on Reddit for liking $15 Skull Candy Ink Plus earbuds & $25 One Odio A71 Wired Over Ear Cup Headphones. Apparently the ONLY way to properly enjoy music is with a $300 set of headphones, and you can ONLY listen to FLAC files.
Most of the time, at the extremes of the top end there aren't even "diminishing returns," there's just literally no returns period. People are seriously spending hundreds or thousands to get nominal "improvements" that are either empirically not measurable, or so off in the weeds that they're far outside the realm of human hearing capability to detect. It's amazing. Audiophools will throw thousands at a "problem" that's not actually a problem in any meaningful way, and then claim that their solution "just sounds better" than something an actual audio electronics engineer with a degree and everything could have pointed them to for a fraction of the price.
As a musician I can confirm this. Whenever we record something with our band, we do the mix & mastering with high quality headphones(iem's) or studio speakers or passive speakers but after we're done doing that it's more exciting to see how the music is going to sound on different parameters like yeah shitty headphones or cars or phone speakers because the majority of the people don't even have top of the line headphones anyway, so it's more important to understand how my music is going to sound in cars and average priced headphones&speakers.
30 years ago i used to work in a TV studio. One day we were making a musical show. The guy in the audio booth was monitoring the sound of the orchestra with studio monitor. Then he did something that really surprised me. He switch to small full-range speakers. i asked him why he was doing this since he had those « better » expensive speakers? He said he had to make sure his mix will sound good on every receivers,small, big, hi-fi or not. Small speakers are less forgiving if there is too much bass or too much high. Move forward, 5 years ago i vas working on a musical video and I had a big argument with the audio engineer because it sounded like crap. He argued that he used very expensive speakers and very expensive software emulators etc... The whole production staff was on his side until i asked him to play it back in his car. Bam! The problem was his expensive sound system. So it’s not the price that makes it right.
I mixed a song these last few days. I thought it was done, I cross referenced it in my car, on my hifi and on two different pairs of headphones, and I needed to make adjustments. Basically, thanks to my Sennheiser HD485 headphones, I noticed some really annoying frequencies that I was able to scoop out. Only minor level adjustments are left to do now, along with taking out some high end air from the vocals and the snare, and that'll be it. The HD485 are kinda old and were affordable. Cross referencing is important. Those headphones aren't audiophile headphones, but they helped me a note.
In Mexico, we have something called the "Chivas Regal effect" you see, Tequila use to be a cheap product intended for the poor and people just concerned to be drunk. A brand came with the great idea to raise the price in order to appear like a high-end product for the elites. Now Tequila is exported all over the world with pride and considered as a fine product for "educated" buyers. How many people judge which product is better based only on the price tag?. Common-sense tend to say that a expensive product is better than a cheaper one, but some manufacturers know this and will take advantage. (also happen in other industries)
I'm no tequila guy at all, but a few year ago, a guy lined up ~8 tequilas for me to taste. The cheap ones (wait for it) burned my throat on the way down, the $120 was smooth......HOWEVER!!! the Costco brand tequila was as good as the $120 bottle
I think it all depends on the product, we must all remember and manufacturer will charge whatever they think they can sell, of course they want to charge the highest price the public will pay to increase profits, thats just good business sense I guess, buyer be ware and all.
I’m a sound engineer, at work we have several studios with the same gear, but it sounds different because the lay-out of the rooms is different. So how on earth can you say ‘how the artist intended.. 🤯there are so many variables! I liked this rant!:-)
@@HoloScope Not a odd question to ask what kind of place he works at. Could be anything, or just something he says. You do not need to have asperger's like you do, who thinks that I specifically asked for his ID, Bank account, and home address. LOL, weirdo! It's cool to know which studio he works at. Could be Abbey Road studio. They use lots of Quested speakers.
True that! I constantly listen to different types of music and critique sound engineers, while listening to different recordings. I easily can hear the worst recordings through my monitors .Most of my equipment is the best vintage that bring out the finest in detail with great specs. There are those who are sold on buying hi-end and there are those who truly listen.
Your rant against some people's arrogant audiophile mentality made me forget about my own troubles for a moment on a very difficult and dark day. This video is a year old so the chances that you will read my comments are small but I would like to offer my thanks anyway. Keep making your videos!
My friend is a musician and an a/v engineer. He has a saying I've taken to heart "sounds good, is good". If you're enjoying it, it’s good. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.
When I'm at the final stages of my master, I always do listening tests on 3 other sound systems: 1. 2.1 channel PC speakers 2. Standard headphones/earphones 3. In my car Because that's what the majority of people listen on. If you can make them sound good on these, then it'll sound even better on a quality sound system.
@@worm6820 It certainly can happen, and does in the higher echelons of the music business. It happened to a friend of mine. They recorded and mixed their album here in Austin, but took it to a mastering guru in, I believe it was, NYC to "master" their final mix. Their live sound is very bottom heavy, as was their final mix and their previous recordings. But when he came back from having it done, something that isn't cheap and he had been excited about for a while, he asked me to listen to the cut again without telling me it was the final product. We listened to it on the sound system at the music venue where we worked, where most of their local shows were played, and my first reaction was, "What happened to the bottom?!" He then told me that it was filtered by the mastering engineer because it was his opinion that it would overwhelm the average sound system and appear distorted. :( He wasn't happy about my response and I would probably not have mentioned it had I known it was going to be the final FINAL mix that went to the CD manufacturers. But he wanted an honest opinion, and that's why he played it for me again without telling me first. Good thing that I got to continue running sound for them and enjoying that big fat bottom end through our "mostly" Crown/JBL equipped system. And I can always listen to their other records that weren't stepped on by the "pro's" in the industry. On a side note, another friend of mine went to work for a large label, increasing the chances that his band would be able to release something under their umbrella of influence, reputation, marketing, distribution, etc. It's a big boost in the chances of your success in the industry. They recorded an album, but it was never released because it got stuck in the cogs of the the giant web of management when someone in the chain of decision making never could make up their damn mind about the sound of the kick drum. Imagine that! All that work, someone else owns it, and you can't release it because some moron doesn't like the way the kick sounds.
I say make the final master the best it can possibly be on the highest end system you have access to. If someone is listening to it on a lesser system that can't handle the dynamics or frequency reproduction, and they notice that it doesn't sound right, they should have the ability to adjust the levels of their equipment to best suit it's limitations. If they don't notice there is distortion, then who cares. That's my philosophy anyway. :)
@@shmaknapublar That would make sense if most people weren't listening through ear buds or car stereos. I'm not going to pull over and adjust EQ on my car stereo every time I listen to a different album. If I have to spend $20K on my stereo for your mix to sound good, your mix sucks!
@@lavachemist Program your user presets for crying out loud. You won't have to pull over. ;) And you don't need to spend a ton of money to have a really great sounding stereo in your car or home. You just have to care enough to put some time in researching gear. Decent ear buds will have no problem reproducing even the most dynamic music unless you are listening at levels that would do damage to the average person's hearing. I can't recommend any particular model as I haven't had any in over 20 years. But as far as headphones go, the best bang for the buck in my opinion is the classic Sony MDR7506. Enough volume and clarity to satisfy 95% of the population and durable enough to be used for hours on end 5 days a week for years.
Something to remember in almost any hobby is that diminishing returns are a huge aspect. 10x pricier will not gaurantee 10x better. It should be important to find where that point of balance is for YOU and for your own sanity
While it's true that 10X the price will not GUARANTEE 10X better, if you choose wisely, 10X the price CAN sound 10X better. On the other hand, my stereo is worth around $25K. And it's more musically and emotionally engaging that a $500K system I heard. Granted, the $500K system was very impressive and dynamic. But it just didn't move me.
As an engineer and physics lecturer, I note that the pricier the equipment gets, there is a direct proportionality in the reliance on pseudo science to justify the costs. The perfect sound is much like the perfect painting, what was the artist hearing when they created the piece?
@@grinwald633 In some instances, it’s true that pseudo science is used top justify cost because science can’t offer an adequate explanation. I’ve always been a fan of Audience cables and power conditioners. As John McDonald, President of Audience said, “The idea of cables as components is a controversial subject. There are many who think that “wire is wire” and don’t accept that cables can either optimize or compromise the performance of an audio system. Traditional tests for difference in cable reveal very little if any electrical differences between brands. However, the human ear/brain is a far more sensitive and discriminating test apparatus and deciphers differences in cable brands rather easily. This ability can be developed much like wine tasting. As you become more experienced, differences, shadings and nuance become more readily noticeable.” Newbies or people who just know enough about audio to think they know what they’re talking about are the first to snap back at comments like John’s, calling it placebo effect and snake oil. Invariably, they never listened to high-end components themselves to hear the difference. They just demand double-blind studies without understanding why they’re useless for evaluating audio gear. From the consumer point of view, I’m not that hung-up on the science. My integrated amp took 250 hours to break in. And I’ve yet to read a scientific explanation of what occurs during that break-in period. On the surface, a $200 Purple fuse seems ludicrous. But if it makes my $8K amp sound significantly better, I’m sold - simple as that.
@@LorenzoNW Hello there, as a late arrival to audiophilia, I was initially dismissive of several things I was told by committed but non technical audiophiles. Some but not all have proven to be true, and for the life of me I cannot offer a sensible explanation for the ones that appear to hold water. There is a reasonable technical argument for good quality cables, the human ear is an amazing instrument and can discern incredibly small changes. Changes that are barely discernable on an oscilloscope. I am also prepared to believe your amp breaking in over 250 hours. I would suggest that may be due to thermal cycling and impacted more by the number of times it was on and got warm/hot and switched off and allowed to hit a background temperature. It could be the quality of the capacitors or coils. But again there is probably a sound scientific explanation. Regards
"Warmth" is just fancy speak for "Subtle Harmonic Distortion & Slightly Better Midrange Presence." And RC20 VST will let me add that. Heck, I can even add Vinyl Crackle or Tape Hiss -- and I bet some snobby Audio Hipster wouldn't even know it was just an altered CD Rip.
I find audiophile products hilarious, I've been using studio monitors for years and when I got into the headphone game, almost every headphone lacks something major in the sound. It's like these people have specific fetishes for different aspects of sound and just no one is interested in a complete signature that plays everything well.
@@undefeatedmc well yeah that's kinda the point of being an audiophile, usually we do have one or two standard reference or daily use phones and a collection of cans for all different uses, one for crazy Soundstage, these ones have great imaging, bass, treble, sparkle, etc...alot of time is spent switching headphones to suit the current song that is playing, adjusting eqs...its definitely a fixation on how a certain piece of gear works and how to get the best from, and also satisfying your own preference in sound signature... I feel like a majority of the bs honestly is coming from the IEM/ultra high end community, those guys live on a cloud 😉
As a musician learning how to mix, master and record my own music, I can say every teacher out there will tell you this one thing. Just because it sounds great in your room doesn't mean it will sound great everywhere else. That's why the most important thing is to translate your music to different sound systems of all kinds. The key word is "Translate" The artist doesn't care if you hear that tone specifically at 4k hz that is only able to be done in their room on their monitors or headphones. The artist cares that you like the song and don't get distracted by a really rumbly or high pitch frequency that makes you want to turn off the song. The wider accessibility we provide with our music, the better. We want as many people as possible to be able to listen to our music and feel the emotion we want to express. This means we want someone who is listening on a crappy car stereo to enjoy our music as much as the person with the $250,000 setup. Musicians want one thing. To make a living doing what we love. How do we do that? We market to people who like the kind of music we're making. We're not marketing to the audiophile who claims to hear 25k hz tones that destroy a mix on their $250,000 setup in their living room made of gold record replicas. We're marketing to the people who like bands that share a similar sound to us in the arrangement of our music, aka Genre and Sub Genre. Hardcore Audiophiles can kiss my butt because they're no better than the elitists who say people who can't shred 16th note triplets at 200 bpm should never pick up a guitar or the guys who say you need at least $25,000 worth of studio equipment to make a good record.
As a recording engineer, the things that you talk about are what hold me back from spending more on a home HiFi. At work I listen and record through $200k worth of gear in a full treated space. Artists approve mixes listening in their cars or over their airpods. Nobody gets to hear the final result any better than me and/or the mastering engineer. I heard the recording and mix at its best. Everywhere else is an approximation. Someone listens on a $500k system will it be better than what I heard. Absolutely not. I was there in the room with the musicians. Will it sound great? I hope so. Anyway, my home system maybe totals $2k in gear and I like it. It's meant for enjoyment. My system at work is picking apart everything. Analyzing every minute detail and it's exhaustion but it is meant to be. Anyway, good rant. Totally agree.👍
A friend of mine is a audio engineer , he basically told me the same. He loves smaller speakers nothing over the top. Cables are just XLR industrial standard anyone can buy for cheap . He laughs at these prima Donnas too
"Artists approve mixes listening in their cars or over their airpods." I'd argue that those aren't artists, and if they are, they're at the beginning of their career, trying to get their music out. I doubt Roger Waters ever said "Hey, the tempo is good and we hit all the right notes. Release it."
@@rossnaheedy3400 aren't artists? They played the music and often times wrote it as well. That is most certainly an artistic exercise. To not call then artists is incorrect and elitist.
It's all about personal taste. I don't care how the artist "intended" it to sound. I just want it to sound good to me and that doesn't mean jacked up bass.
What ever happened to Beats headphones ? Did people finally catch onto the fact that they didn't really sound that good and cost a ridiculous amount of money ?
Yes hate jacked up bass. I think its best when it sounds you can hear the bass loud but not taking over everything else. I thinks its nice when you have space between all instruments and dont struggle to hear something, something like one of the early police albums . Albums need the be produced well as well as your hardware to have reasonable quality .
@@paulgoodwin3642 I have to laugh when I see these guys with expensive sound systems in their cars and they've got their bass so cranked up their car is rattling down the street. Their teeth are probably rattling too. 🤪📢🎵🎶
As a recording artist myself, I can tell you that we listen to the master on everything else other than the studio monitors. The whole point of a mastered song is to make sure that it sounds acceptable on what the majority people uses for listening to music, daaaaah....
yup, I like to mix stuff as a hobby and I listen back whatever I mix on my phone and car speakers. If it sounds fine on those AND my IEMs it's good to go and this approach hasn't let me down. Jonas Aden does that too iirc
@@kaiserfakinaway5909 So you actually record each arrangement, then compare the recordings ? Interesting. It beats the labor of switching things back and forth 10 or 20 times. Then once you narrow down a multiple comparison to the two best versions, you can do a final real time comparison. Thanks kaiser.
Dude, when Steve Guttenberg throws you a "Go man go!" on a video like this, that's gotta feel good. Love every thing about this video. You're spot on, man. Love that you're keeping it real.
Heh...writes "The Audiophiliac." Love that you get the snark and don't take yourself seriously, Steve. And thanks for recommending the Chesky sessioned Fred Hersch Trio's 'Dancing in the Dark' album in the ELAC Uni-fi 2.0 UB52 review. That one slipped under the radar. Love that dude's work. His "Live in Europe" CD is on heavy rotation these days. Outstanding stuff.
Good video Randy! So true. Some of the best advise I have received re: stereo gear was this - the more you spend, the less the differences in sound as you go up in cost. There is a point of diminishing returns. The most important thing is not how much you spend on equipment. The most important thing is that you enjoy listening to your music.
It is basically the same with most things in life. I am not certain that you are into soccer, but it makes a good analogy. You can get a decent player for a million, but if you want 5% more capability, you probably have to pay 5 millions. If you want an additional 2% capability, then you probably have to spend 10 million and if you want an additional 1% capability like with top players like Haaland, Lewandowski, Mbappe etc, the you have to pay 100 million. The key thing is if it is worth it...
As a musician/producer/engineer/mixer with 25 years of experience I can say, your ROOM makes more of a difference than your speakers or amps ever will.
Speakers with better linearity off axis will inevitably sound better in any room. Room treatment won't help much with nulls. Treatment also doesn't beat SBIR. Two subs will give a better low end result in room than any simple 2.0 or 2.1 setup with any amount of treatment. After proper placement and 2 subs, a home listener can focus on treatment, unless the initial room was too reflective. A lot of bullshit in the pro audio world too! The amount of pro audio store clerks trying to sell pathetic foam absorbers for like 5 times the price you could build a set of rockwool bass traps that would outperform said foam absorbers any day of the week At the end of the day, autosuggestion will change a system's sound the most.
Oh my, that foolish argument encountered here yet again! Just like saying that if you were a gynecologist, it would have also made you into an expert of making love! Yet, knowing all there is to know about genitalia does not automatically make you into a great lover Same here - the business of recording and "mixing" music does not really translate into knowing all there is to know about architectural acoustics. Or perceptual/medical acoustics. Cheers!
It fills my heart with endless joy that you get up basically every day and mercilessly bully audiophiles whose opinions are so subjective that they think no one can argue with them. You're my hero.
Excellent! I was an Audiophile for most of my life... Then I started to learn how to play guitar. Not just love listening to music, but love creating it. Trying different picks, strings, messing with the controls of my amps and pedals, I could make it sound any of millions of ways. Your favorite recording of say Gimme Shelter, or Smells like Teen Spirit, or All along the Watchtower... lotta talent there, but microscopic details of how that guitar sounded? Keith, Kurt, and Jimi were all just loving whatever it sounded like that day. It was different at the next gig. The studio recording is just one of those days. Now I have discovered how much of a dufus I was for all those years... Listen and enjoy... and definitely don't buy 1,500 dollar audio cables!
Exactly, and if you listen to most musicians talk about their recordings or live sound most aren't happy with the final product the fans hold sacrosanct
I've said for a long time that I think audiophiles are overcompensating for the fact that they can't play, read, or write music themselves. It's interesting that you started to think differently once you started playing music on your own :)
I think being a sort of entry level audiophile is a pretty good place to be. Don't be obsessive but there's nothing wrong with spending a few hundred quid on a good set of headphones or studio monitors.
I discovered the world of audiophilia and hifi after becoming a sound engineer. I can recognize the advantages of high end equipment but at the end of the day, the laws of physics don't change. It's all a matter of how you choose to color (distort/filter) or not the original signal, which is almost entirely digitally processed since the 90's anyway. You can only do so much to a summed waveform. The real fun is the recording and mixing, where all the audiophiles should really put their ears
Yeah but a lot of people want to get a particular sound and to get that sound the best way is to use the same equipment as was used for the recording. Either that or modellers. Sure Kurt was spontaneous live but with Andy Wallace mixing I must imagine the process being cerebral rather than off the cuff.
4:28 I'm an Audio Engineer. Artists generally have very minor input on the actual mix/master of the song and don't really understand what we're doing. All they know is if it sounds nice or not and feedback from them is generally something very vague like "can you make this part a bit louder". They almost always listen on very consumer-level devices, and even their studio monitors are generally entry level shitboxes. If they have monitors at all. The only exception to this that I can think of are EDM guys who generally mix and master their own stuff.
I'm an Audio Engineer who is also an artist. Many times I send my stuff to other mixing engineers because mixing my own stuff feels weird. I do know what they are doing and they do accept input. And I am recording punk rock. On the other hand, I have dealt with the typical annoying person who wants to give input without having a basic grasp on what is going on so, I understand that frustration. However, there is a normalization of snobbism in the audio tech scene. Many engineers think everyone else is dumb except for them. It is a bad habit that has to be dealt with. Artists are getting more and more knowledgeable with time due to how accessible music production is in comparison to 20 years ago. Your comment says a lot about the kind of artists you are specifically not about the general production scene.
@@maskingtables I've worked with hundreds of artists, mixed and mastered thousands of songs and have millions of views on stuff I've worked on. So I don't know what you think my comment says about the artists I work with other than that they're very talented.
@@NathanOrlick although not a one size fits all obviously, I feel like your assessment is pretty spot on. As an amateur musician that has recorded a few times, although we did have input on mix/mastering, theres not a lot of input even needed on our end other than something possibly feeling slightly buried in the mix. I didn't understand everything involved although they were more than happy to explain when we showed interest out of just a general appreciation of the process. Definitely not something you learn overnight and I have a lot of respect for that process. Audio engineers I have dealt with have all been a pleasure to work with. I think small live venue sound guys can have the reputation for being arrogant but I've never really heard that being the case studio wise. Theres definitely a reason you see very few major artists with engineering credits on their albums, it's just not something the average musician knows unless they have ventured down that road themselves.
@@letsplayclassicgames5024 Cheers bro! And you got it, it's a specialty like any other. A great engineer should be able to understand the emotional core of what the song is about and maximise that on the way to the finish line. It's our job to make the artists vision a reality without bogging them down with a load of technical bullshit that they shouldn't have to worry about in the first place so that they can lean more heavily into their creativity and focus on things like marketing, videos, live shows etc.
I've made my first record as a teenager in 1981. The last one, this year. Basic R'n'R', New Wave, Punkish Reggae. Two electric guitars, bass, drums n' vocals (guests here and there with a tenor sax, or horns etc). From the day one, the recording and controlling was done on whatever large studio speakers they had. To hear each instrument as clearly as possible. Then the mixing came... to my shock back in 1981, the detailing of the final mix was done on a car speaker placed in a simple wooden box. When all the band stood in shock, "WTF?", the producer explained "It will be listened on TV speakers, small portable transistors and car stereos. If we make it sound good there, powerful and kicking, it will rock on every system." And it stayed true up to 2022.
That's right. I make music from 2013 as indie musician / passion not professionally ( I'm a engineer) actually I have 2 Yamaha monitor AND a sub monitor in my home studio. Maybe $1300 bucks. I have the Yamahas because is what other indie record labels here is using. They simply works. Also the $130 Audio Technica monitor works wonder. If the music sound professional on them of course will sound better on the big stereo in my living room.
You are so wrong. Don’t compare your music to let’s say pink Floyd or Beatles. Those are mastered with care. Especially SACDs and vinyls which are intended for people who take their music seriously.
@@vitorfernandes651 Yeh but I promise you the mix engineers and mastering engineers would also have cross referenced on poorer playback systems....because thats literally their Job, ...to make a mix that translates
Thank you for all of your points!!!! SPOT ON !!!! The one that REEEHEEEALLLY gets to me are the visuals of monoblock amps sitting on floor stands, with massive cables the size of my leg, sprawling all over the room.
As a self-described ‘audiophile’, the best music reproduction system is the one near you when you want to listen to music. I have worked in high end audio for good portion of my career. I have designed and installed hundreds of 6 figure systems and designed and helped build many treated rooms for clients. I have a very good streaming speaker box for relaxing on the porch and a $50k audio system in my “man cave”. Ya know what? My little box gets more use because it portable and goes with me around the house. Can hear the difference? of course I can. If you have cheap ear buds or great system, just listen and enjoy. it important to remember that IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MUSIC!
I was always more a record collector without paying as much attention to the hardware end as perhaps I should? Don’t know it was long ago. Since about the past few years I’ve gotten more into a putting together a decent stereo system. My system cost around $1,200 give or take, and am very happy with it.
@ColdPetRat2.99 I don't know what planet you live one. My set-up is around 25k and of that, 12k is for the speaker components alone. The fact that I bought the components and built the speakers myself, means that they equate to speakers +50k. A good friend of mine built a dedicated listening house in the garden and the audio components alone were +600k.
I can attest as former recording artist. We did a lot of work on Yamaha monitors. Then demoed on jbl l100 for smiles, but the final mix was tweaked using the stock stereo in my guitar players 1980s Chrysler k-car station wagon. Lol. You want to build a fan base? You don't mix for a 10k audiophile system that only a few people actually listen to your music on. You grab the headphones with the orange foam, the crap car, and the old boom box cassette player and when it sounds as best it can there, you know you have something for the masses!
Thank you I was ready say the same they tried all the scenarios. Henson Studio still had a car outside till recently. Leland Sklar's video at talks about that on this video right at :45 - :55 second mark of this th-cam.com/video/djNrcHJP4TY/w-d-xo.html
Thanks. A point I was going to make. Most people aren't snobby about their sound systems and listen on ear buds or little all in one units. The music has to be mixed to sound fine on those systems. The movie "Once" (a great movie) has that process shown.
People sometimes confuse Compression in terms of making the audio as loud as possible with an audio compressor. And compression due to the mp3 format and other lossy formats. Those are two completely different types of compression.
Indeed. "Compression" of FILE SIZE is what lossy formats do, while discarding much of the "information content" and fidelity, making them easy to stream (without blowing through a data cap) and portable enough for cheap USB flash drives to hold several hours of music. Audio compression is squeezing the dynamic range between the softest and loudest sounds. When used a little, it can improve the sound, making it a bit fuller (not as thin), and make it easier to listen in noisier environments like cars. But taken to extremes like too many recordings are done today and it makes them all sound like crap, worse than an AM radio turned up to 10. Hopefully recording artists, engineers, and producers will start caring about the quality of the sound instead of just how "loud" it sounds one day soon. I miss the quality recordings from the 1980s that took advantage of the 96dB dynamic range of CDs and made music emotionally impactful.
@@Firearmerr for example taking a 16-bit 640MB .wav file and running it through a mp3 encoder with the result being the "best" a mp3 file can be, which is a 320Kbps, 16-bit file, you'll end up with a file about 91 MB or roughly 1/7th the FILE SIZE. To do that, it uses perceptual encoding that throws out much of the nuances of the audio quality. It can still be very listenable and enjoyed, but it is not the level of audio quality of the original at all. Only non-lossy compression schemes like FLAC or ALAC can "crunch" file sizes to about 60% or so, and retain ALL of the audio quality of the original.
There is an even bigger difference in the 'compression' commonly thought of in loudness wars, and compression used in the actual engineering mix process. The latter changes the dynamic perception of the individual instrument.
I consider myself an "audiophile", but not because i have expensive stuff, but because i want to listen as much of the songs i like as i can. And also for the fact that i really find beautiful the engineering behind sound, everything, i want to learn all i can about it
Yeah, I fall into the same camp. I don't care "what the artist intended", but I do care that my nicer headphones let me pick out subtle details that are indistinguishable on lesser cans.
In Spanish there is a word for people who passionately loves music and is “melómano” I always thought that Audiophile was the English word for it 😅 but in English is melomaniac
Same, I feel like having higher quality headphones allow us to appreciate our favourite songs more. Like the composer put in a lot of details that are unnoticeable on lower end gears, and I find it interesting to dissect what makes the song good.
@@paulm2467 Anything beyond $1k for headphone + amp or $2-3k for stereo hifi is overkill for me and greatly diminishing returns. If you shop wisely, I think there’s a sweet spot in that price range that can satisfy a music lover for life. (In my case, Senn HD600 + Schiit Amp for headphones, Cambridge Amp + KEF q350 and SVS sub for hifi) . Audio gear, like music production gear can so easily turn into an obsession, where you’re always searching for the next best thing rather than enjoying and being satisfied with what you’ve got. These will probably be the last systems I buy (unless they break) and I’m good with that.
Guttenberg had a great video interviewing a sound engineer in New York. It was a couple videos actually, very enlightening about mastering, compression if you want to know more about how the sausage is made. Another thing is that a LOT of musicians have terrible hearing loss. They are constantly exposed to high volume levels.
Have not been through the "sausage making" process. On a broadcast useage basis, a different end user story. As a young man, I worked [low level engineering, late 60's/early 70's] at several minor mrkt FM stations whose formats were MOR & Rock. I was amazed at the vol. levels ["11"?] that some dj's would run the control monitors during their [usually six hours] shift. Despite the extensive sound damping acoustics utilized within the broadcast booth, one could 'hear' what was being played before one walked in the lobby. I've no idea what hearing damage unfolded....looking back. One station used JBL 100'S [wall mounted, unknown Amp] that would emit thunder during 6 to midnight shift. Louder than the combined forced air blowers of a 20kw FM + 5kw AM transmitter in an adjacent room. Ah, reflection(s).
That video got re-uploaded like 3 times because he mocked another audiophile you tubers wife. Basically calling her opinion dumb because she is a women
@@Flarptube I feel like music composition and audio mastering are two very different things, in which one is far more reliant on hearing than the other. The other one is more reliant on creativity and intuition which comes straight from the brain.
Get em Randy! This is why I follow you, Darko and Andrew Robinson. You are all very different, but you all just care about music and none of the BS. Keep it up!
I'm an audiophile(!), but Randy is correct on all points. I've got to where I am by buying stuff second hand and if I hear an improvement (or just like it for whatever reason) I keep it and sell on what I had previously. After a few iterations I'm very happy where I'm at, I now have the sound I want in my room. I've gone backwards before, luckily my old gear I hadn't sold yet and put that back in. Yes I've taken some loses, but to me that is the cost of playing around and having fun, so I'm good with that.
So true, Randy, so true! One of my pet hates is the expression "mid-fi". 40 years ago, when I got into this hobby, it didn't exist; entry-level separates were considered hi-fi too. Somewhere along the line, some twerp with too much money invented the term as a put-down on lesser mortals whose gear cost less than theirs, and all the other snobs liked the idea and ran with it.
You can get better audio equipment by spending a lot of money but you hit the wall of diminishing returns for far less now days. Then again it depends if you even consider accuracy as being better. My old much cheaper set up sounded better than what I have now when I was listening to nothing but rock n roll with less than stellar production. That's because I made a surround sound setup consisting of gear used for live rock and roll so surprise surprise. Really bright tweeters aren't my thing but if you listen to a lot of female Jazz vocals a Klipsch setup can make them sound amazing. Some albums I prefer listening to on my 350$ near field Edifiers over my multi-thousand dollar system. It all kind of depends on taste. If you want a system that does everything really well though you want gear that measures accurate . There's definitely a lot of stuff out there punching way lower than their price point and vice versa. Unless you make a lot of money the improvement you can get with really expensive gear isn't worth it. Most people would get a bigger improvement just learning to set it up properly. DSP will probably make that extra cost unjustified before long for anything other stronger materials or nice finishes.
@@jimshaw899 That's because a lot of people have never heard REAL hi-fi! A lot of hi-fi equipment even way back in the late 1950's sounded real good! Those of us that did...we loved that sound!
There's a whole scene in the end of the movie "Once" after they've mastered their whole album. The audio tech goes, "okay, it's time for the car test". The band looks puzzled, so he explains. "We've been listening to these songs on these expensive studio monitors, it's time to listen to it on some crappy car speakers".
In the '50s and '60s, rock & roll studios would master songs to sound good on AM radio, including pocket transistors. Play it on a high-end setup and it might sound "bad", but play it on a crappy radio and it's got the right feel. Classical music, on the other hand, tends to be another deal. As an orchestra musician myself, I have a solid aural picture of what live music sounds like. I routinely record rehearsals and concerts and use my aural memory to judge the fidelity of the reproduction against reality.
I have been spending more and more time just toying with the idea that we're all still children and that the emotions behind our actions and words are not that different. This is very apparent with arguments and especially subjective ones. Every kid I've met will say they don't like something they've never seen, eaten and on and on. The major difference, sometimes, is the level of complexity and layering in the sentences chose to "support" their arguments. It's so funny. Great rant!
"I have been spending more and more time just toying with the idea that we're all still children" That was the major reason to find a way to become mature, instead of just being an adult. I saw 30-60 year old people insecure and lost. But you can bet off they will try to give you advice.
yeah so true! I've been thinking about the same thing... and it happens to all of us. sometimes I think I'm mature, but then I face some situation that makes my inner child surface, and later in hindsight I'm so embarrassed I acted that way! and it happens a lot in trivial arguments too, I think I'm a know it all and then I face the hard truth. I'm a young adult, but you see people who are full grown adults and do this too. being a kid is a lot like being an unfiltered human hahah
As someone who has recorded quite a bit, often times we will get emailed WAV files and each of us will listen to the tracks on our own gear. I’ve listened in my car, in my wife’s car, on my laptop, on my phone, and sometimes even on a proper pair of speakers. “As the artist intended”: I was probably drinking when I recorded. We intend it to be enjoyed, full stop.
Same here. I’m a drummer. I go into a recording session with a certain way I want my stuff to sound and cut through the mix but as long as I can hear everything I played within a certain general style it’s all good. I’m not a mastering engineer. I say “here’s a reference track (in any file format or quality ) now make me sound like that.” My job is to play drums not to master tracks. That guy is the “Artist” with the real “intention.”
Same. With 30 years as a professional drummer under my belt I can confirm that in my experience at least the recording process involves many people's ideas and there are always compromises to be made. Thanks for what you do Randy! Love your videos and I've learned a lot from them! Cheers from the east coast of Canada!
This is what happens when hobby meets community. The hobbyist by themselves is just really interested in their particular hobby. But when they begin interacting with other hobbyists, they start organizing a hierarchy and standards to judge each member’s status within this hierarchy. With something as subjective as audio, the standards tend to become arbitrary, or just tied to something more measurable, like monetary value. Thus, you get $500 gold/platinum audio cables and what not.
Having done many recordings along the way, one of the first things we do as soon as we get our initial basic mix down is run out to the car park and listen to it on an average system in one of our cars. That way, we can get an idea of how most people will probably hear it. The expensive high-fidelity studio monitors will give you all the fine details, but they don't provide a sense of how it will end up being played to most people. We've used this vital tool to shape many final mixes. I know we're not the only people who do this, so I would argue that many musicians don't intend to tailor their sound to audiophiles, but wish to direct it to the average listener with average equipment who make up the bulk of the market. Quick edit: I paused the video a second too soon. As soon as I finished writing it and started watching again, he explained exactly what I'd described. I was going to delete it, but I thought I should leave it up just to reiterate his point.
Can attest that it’s common to do the “car test” during mixing/mastering. The thinking is that if it sounds good there, it’ll sound good most anywhere.
the thing about car speakers that i find is that they are most balanced towards too much bass, so much so that it makes my ears hurt, and for some reason the singin voices in some car speakers get lost, and some cars dont even have tweeters so forget about that crisp clean clear cymbal crash
@@ernestochang1744 It depends on the speakers. I mixed a song these last few days, and I listened it in the car. I heard some awful frequencies, which were even more pronounced when I later listened through my old Sennheiser HD485 headphones. I scooped out those frequencies, and now it sounds much better. However, on my humble hi-fi system, I heard that there was a bit too much high end on the vocals and the snare, and that's an easy fix too. Anyway, the car test works really well, but it's a good idea to cross reference the mix on several speakers and headphones.
@@femali me personally i dont think car speakers are a good indication of how music will sound, only casuals who dont care much for sound quality would go with factory car speakers, then again i havent turned on my cars speakers in well over 4 years neither have i bothered to buy upgraded car speakers/ amps its just a waste of money id rather take a hifi pair of headphones or nice Adams audio v7 speakers
I never bought into the “audiophile” way of thinking myself, thinking about all the rubbish with hyper expensive cables, cables with electrons aligned etc. That is the kind of video I kind of was expecting when I clicked on your video. Boy I was wrong! You have some seriously good and well thought and funded arguments there. Thumbs up from me!
“Not how the artist intended it”? What are they even talking about? A fundamental concept in audio engineering is getting your mixes to sound good on any system…that’s kind of what separates the pros from the hobbyists.
I guess "how the artist intended it" actually means "however the final mix sounds on any speakers ever" lol. I'd probably make an exception for speakers/sound systems that have such bad acoustics and frequency responses that they are unpleasant to listen to (for example, very specific ranges of harsh high frequencies present in certain album mixing styles and rattling car frames from bass, both of which unfortunately apply to my car lol).
This. Even for Daft Punk's first album, Homework, the songs were played out on a ghettoblaster because "if it sounds good on this, it'll sound good on anything," and this is *Daft Punk* we're talking about
It has long been advised that when mixing a track of music that the mix should be previewed on a wide range of sound systems, e.g., car audio, hi-fi speakers, consumer ear buds, as an MP3, etc. The infamous Yamaha NS10 speakers (or a clone such as the Avantone Pro CLA10) have been widely used in professional studios as secondary monitors, not because they are accurate but because they have a sound more typical of a mediocre home stereo speaker.
This is 100% accurate in my (limited) experience. I'm not an audio engineer, but I had to learn about audio production for my film degree. The reason that you mix in a neutral environment with reference monitors is so that the audio will sound acceptable everywhere else. If your mix sounds horrible everywhere except where it was mixed, the mix is horrible. Pretty simple concept :)
"It's your music, you can listen to it however you want to". Best statement!! Ultimately it's your music, your gear, your ears. It's going to be what YOU like. It's all subjective! Great video!
Dude, you made my evening! I enjoyed your comments on Audiophiles. I am passionate about music, great audio experiences and running live sound. Most importantly, I understand there are crapy audio products on the market, the kinda stuff that just sound "bad". Then there is audio products that allow you to enjoy music for hours and leaves you smiling. Bottom line, great audio gear is not rare, smiling people listening to music are. Love your channel!
As a "high-end" manufacturer of audio components, Great American sound Co. or GAS Co. was continually approached by "golden-eared audiophiles" claiming the amplifier or preamplifier they owned clearly sounded superior to any of the GAS Co. products we were producing. I would always invite these individuals into the sound room with their preferred audio component and proceed to connect it to the switching system. I would have them select a comparable GAS Co. component that I also connected to the system and then carefully adjusted both components with a precision AC voltmeter for equal levels. Before the testing commenced, I would give the audiophile the remote lanyard--a small handheld box with a toggle switch labeled A or B. I always told them that the "A" position was their piece of equipment and the "B" position was the GAS Co. equipment. After exhaustively auditioning the two components, the golden eared individual would always have a litany of subjective terms that negatively described the sound of the GAS Co. component such as: "overall dullness", "lack of transparency", "ill defined bass", "irritating midrange", "shrill highs", "lack of depth", "unstable imaging"..... ad nauseam. While the audiophile was espousing these opinions, I would bring the level of the music back up, then casually walk over to the components, switch off the power to the GAS Co. component and ask the audiophile to please toggle the lanyard switch between A and B. Unbeknownst to the audiophile, I had connected the switching system exclusively to their component only. During the test when they switched from A to B, the sound audibly dropped-out during the switching process for a few milliseconds cueing the listener that something had changed. When the audiophile realized that I had clearly demonstrated that their golden ears were not golden at all, they would quickly disconnect their component from the system, and while stomping out of the listening room, turn around, and, depending on how invested they were in believing they had golden ears, generally espouse a litany of profanities directed at me. Don't shoot the messenger! I repeated these same A/B listening tests many times with various individuals and groups and determined there was a direct correlation between audiophiles and lovers of music; audiophiles were always angered; music lovers were always enlightened, especially women! This same switching system was also utilized for loudspeakers and phono cartridges since GAS Co. was selling "Sleeping Beauty" "moving-coil" phono cartridges made by Coral Corp. in Japan. There was no need try to fool the listener as I did with electronics, switching between different loudspeakers and phono cartridges always produced easily discernible audible changes in the musical timbre characteristics. David Riddle
Glad I’m not the only person that has these opinions on being a “true audiophile”… If I have to spend $50,000 to be a true audiophile, I’ll have to pass… another great video!
An audiophile can still be happy with Q Acoustics 3020i speakers and an inexpensive 2 channel integrated amplifier. I have 3020is and they sound nice. I want to try the Concept 500s. I prefer speakers that are a good balance between musical and analytical and a well-built class AB transistor amplifier.
@Mike Unsworth I would importantly note that the sound stage should go past the the left side of the left speaker and go past the right side of the right with the sound sounding as if it's coming from behind the speakers several feet back.
Back in the day, a well respected audio magazine swore that plugging a cheap Radio Shack ("Micronta") clock radio into the same electrical outlet as your stereo equipment dramatically improved the sound. Then there was the green marker that, when used around the edges of a CD, allegedly caused the bits to stop leaking (or something) and improved the sound of the CD. These are the types of things that many "audiophiles" considered viable.
Come on , we are all adults here so you can say "Stereophile" and as far as being "well respected", that just isn't the case considering what you posted as examples plus the other snake oil items some of their "reviewers" endorsed. Yes, they do good measurements on components when they want to but also spew the worst BS imaginable. I have ZERO respect for Atkinson, Serinus and their ilk. They knowingly lie to keep the ad revenue going.
I remember the green marker. I recall the idea was that the CD could act like a fibre optic cable with the laser light travelling horizontally through the CD towards the edge of the disc thus interfering with the laser reading the disc. The green ink was meant to absorb that horizontal laser light. At the time I wondered why not use a black pen as it would absorb more wavelengths of light? So I wanted to experiment but did not want to spend $25 at a HiFi store so ended up getting exactly the same green pen (less cheap label) from a stationery store for a few dollars. I also got a black pen from the same maker and range. I didn't notice any difference in the CDs sound. I still have a couple of CDs with green around the edge. As for the black pen - the ink flaked off almost immediately which is why it wasn't used.
@@mddawson1 I remember those green pens very well. As for buying one I like you could not stomach the cost for a pen. On top of that it was just nonsense. Disc played perfectly so it was a gimmick and a powerful one because they certainly did sell. A item made to address a problem that did not exist like so many hifi accessories sadly.
@@a0r0a7 Another one that I tried back in the 90s was shorting out the co-axial digital output on my Rotel RCD-855 that was suppose to improve the analog output. Once again I did it on the cheap shorting out an old RCA plug and once again I heard no difference. It obviously did not harm the Rotel as I still use it now. I am pleased to say I never fell for improving a CD players sound by placing a piece of paper under one foot. I do hope that one was a joke.
It's refreshing to see someone straight talking and cutting through the nonsense some of these so called audio files go on about, everyone hears things differently so if your hi-fi sounds good to you then you're sorted regardless of the price...
Everyone hears things differently...what a load of CRAP!!! Some people have better hearing than others but our ears all work the same way, unless you have bionic ears. The golden ears want you to believe that their hearing is so keen, so exquisite, that they can hear tiny nuances of reproduced sound too elusive for the rest of us. Absolutely not true. Anyone without actual hearing impairment can hear what they hear, but only those with training and experience know what to make of it, how to interpret it. Thus, if a loudspeaker has a huge dip at 3 kHz, it will not sound like one with flat response to any ear, golden or tin, but only the experienced ear will quickly identify the problem. It's like an automobile mechanic listening to engine sounds and knowing almost instantly what's wrong. His hearing is no keener than yours, he just knows what to listen for. You could do it too if you had dealt with as many engines as he has.
@@thegoat164 the shape of the ear affects how you hear things, not just the volume at which you hear them. Since people have different ears, they do literally hear things differently.
Oh wow! So I'm only in about 2 mins and I'm already subscribed, I like the way you think....no bulls**t, period. But then, I push "subscribe" and then I see that little note that shows you actually care???!!! I'm all in! Thank you!
The group you're talking about would more properly be termed "gear heads" rather than "audiophiles". For them, it's all about the equipment. And you are spot on about what the artists want their music to sound like. Just look inside the fold open liner of The James Gang's second album "James Gang Rides Again". You'll find the words, "Made loud to be played loud". If that doesn't say it, nothing does!
I enjoyed playing guitar more when I knew nothing about gear, then I bought gear for thousands of dollars and lost interest in the playing and focussed on gear only. I hate myself for that.
This "gear over direct experience" thing is oddly dehumanizing. It's like a mental disease or something. I know people who are like this (including myself 5+ years ago) and they always seem to make assumptions of reality that just don't line up with, well, reality. I'm into psychology and I do ridiculous amounts of research, introspection, and reflection, so I've been trying to get to the bottom of this and figure out the source. Right now my sights are on the concept of social engineering as the main culprit. A symptom of many deep-rooted learned problems (as in, not naturally present without specific outside influences) that are unconsciously passed down through generations. Thank god there are many people these days that are becoming self-aware enough to break these cycles. Without them, humanity would be royally screwed. I have hope.
I've been into hifi all my life with 30 years of experience learning, testing and trying new things. I have spent entire weekends AB comparing amplifiers DACs, preamps, speakers, players, files, room treatments and setup. The thing is perception is a major factor and it means you can't AB test and fully know if one thing or another is better. As one example I listened to a set of older Polk Audio SDA-2 speakers and I thought they were awful on initial impressions. I changed back to my Q Acoustics Concept 20's that I had been listening to for a few months and though how much better they were. I decided to switch to the Polk's again and give them another shot with some different test tracks and went a month like that. When I went back to my Q Acoustics speakers I hated them, they sounded thin, peaky and bright all of the sudden. The longer you listen to any change in setup the more you get used to the sound and it changes your perception and what you like. So AB testing is a no go for me. Instead I need to listen to any new component my system without interruption for minimum 2 weeks of heavy listening a few hours a day and then decide if I like it or not.
I have a number of different speakers and they all sound great but different. So I justify it to myself like the differences in good wines. They’re different but they’re all good. Not very scientific. But I get a lot of pleasure from each of my systems.
You are absolutely right. I also went into the rabithole, with cheap speakers though, buying speakers, reading about 'better speakers', sell them, buy others, etc. until I ended up with Infinity renaissance 90, and i loved them. Until they broke and I went looking for other speakers. Now I found piega and I like it. But probably, there are better speakers out there, but honestly, i'm sick of buying and selling and prefer to invest my time in tweaking it, improving the room, processor, and enjoy them more!
It’s just like buying a new pair of shoes where they’ll never feel as comfortable as your old ones only because they’re different. But once you where them a couple weeks, their feel becomes the new norm.
Musician and audio enthusiast here, with recording experience on both analog and digital equipment. Every sound engineer worth his salt will test the final mix : A) Both in stereo AND mono to make sure nothing is out of phase and all instruments are audible. B) From multiple sources and in different acoustic environments to make sure it delivers under all circumstances....that includes cars, portable devices, headphones and yes,mobile phones! C) Noone knows what the artist intented but the artist themselves...often, not even them!
As an audio engineer who has recorded much music straight into my PC using some nice microphones and preamps but everything else software-based, I have gotten into “spirited debates“ with the equivalent of “audiophiles“ in my world, who swear that everything has to be analog/ “old-school”, otherwise it’s garbage. I’ve actually started lying to some of these “purists”, saying that I recorded it all on tape, going so far as to add to tape hiss back in using my tape-sim plug-ins. They could never tell the difference.
Don't forget that the software version of the 1960s Beatles EMI studio tape recorder has parameters for "added 50 cycle hum" and "added wow and flutter" to make it "authentic".
@@jimhibert you can correlate real signal characteristics with them though, like openness/soundstage and transient/imaging details in high freq etc. .... Do i need to elaborate more?
I'm always amazed as a young person who grew up with vinyl (many years ago LOL) and all my albums survived and I still listen to them on my " barely decent" turntable. The only thing we really followed was a clean record, a good needle. keeping them away from sunlight and handling them on the edges only. A audiophile would be appalled at my set up, but my music plays wonderful and my speakers deliver me great music everytime 🎶
I was thinking the same thing and I was wondering if maybe using analog equipment just sounds better to us because we are old and that is how we heard the music growing up. I am sure an audiophile would also be appalled at my equipment but I personally think it sounds fantastic. I never think of this "hobby" as a way of trying to produce the highest quality sound as much as recapturing some of the joy of finding records on vinyl, listening to an entire album in one sitting, the artwork on the covers etc.
It's also curious that even on the most expensive, state-of-the-art, 'high end' audiophile quality audio equipment, they still have ANALOGUE audio inputs!? Some obscenely expensive audio equipment even have Phono inputs for that rickety, 40+yo 'barely decent' turntable to plug into! What does that tell you? 🤣🤣
@@ozymandias7940 I own an old Sugden amp (pre/power comb.), a Thorens 125 II with Hadcock GH 228 arm, an ADC cartridge, pair of Tannoy Eatons, AKG K340, a Revoxx B77 R2R and a a Studer A721 cassette. All bought second hand. Very good listening experience with these so no need to upgrade to modern state of the art expensive "audiophile" equipment.
The first lesson I learned with this hobby is that if the ad says ‘audiophile’ more then once or twice, its probably a waste of money. Hell, if it says it even once it’s probably a waste of money.
I was once told by someone who does music mastering "Listen to your music on the monitors in a studio, the Sony MDR7506, your favorite headphones, some apple earbuds, something samsung includes with their phones, and some airpods or whatever is popular, because most of your market isn't listening to it on anything remotely like what you hear in a studio. Try to understand it from every level from the studio, down to the person who only has the budget for the phone they listen to it on, and the included crackly earbuds."
You should listen to your music the way you normally do which means if you're in the car/truck a lot, then consider just improving the sound by some aftermarket speakers & maybe an amp but if you're a college kid who rides a bike, then your earbuds are going to be your HiFi connection and they can be improved. I had a set of Bose buds which I ended up giving to my son for his work and he only uses his phone. He loves them. Back in the early 80's, I once owned a set of Minimus 50's from Radio Shack. They were metal enclosures with 4" woofer & 1" radial tweeter. My friend who had (at the time) a $5,000 quad Sansui system he got from a PX in Germany in the early 70's was so impressed by how good the Minimus 50's sounded at my house, told me he later bought a pair for his workshop. He was more proud of those than his 380 watt/channel quad system. Go figure.
As long as we are all happy with our audio gears that’s what’s important. Price doesn’t always define the quality. There are some Chinese made tube amps at amazing prices that offer really good sound
Hell yeah, I LOVE my Dayton Audio HTA100. Ample power , Class A-B Tube amp hybrid as warm as a puppy and sweet as Tupelo Honey ! My JBLs and Infinities love her.
If every speaker measured and sounded the same it would suck. Everyone likes different flavors and everyone likes a certain kind of sound. I love how my speakers sound different from each other. Makes it fun and it’s interesting hearing music over different systems and setups!
@HomeTheater101 said: "Everyone likes different flavors and everyone likes a certain kind of sound." This is VERY true, but let's call that "flavor" what it *really* is. *_DISTORTION_* There isn't a single piece of equipment on this planet that _doesn't_ somehow distort the original signal.
"Contempt prior to investigation" - THANKS FOR THIS! I find this is something I encounter with so many people on so many things in life and to finally have a name for it is great!
I love your first point. I consider myself a bit of an audiophile (Intro level), but I could (n't lol) CARE LESS how the artist intended it to be...I'm gonna listen to it the way I fell in love with it....and the fun thing is as you change your system and things over time you start to discover new elements in the stuff you already love and know so well. That is a wonderful trip through an album over the years. If you only listen to something "one way", you never discover what is hidden in that approach.
I listen to my favorite music on a number of different systems, my truck has a pretty decent (factory) Sony system, my car has a decent system (also factory), and I have a couple of different stereos at home and I have my studio as well as my air pods and my bose buds. I hear each song differently on the different systems and depending on the frequency curve of each system, it's easier to hear certain instruments on some systems while they are buried in the mix on other systems.
Love your content man. Super refreshing! Ended up buying sony sscs5 pair and strdh190 as I'm just getting into the hobby. (Use them every day) Finding your outlook has been both entertaining and rewarding. Keep it up man! "Do you...I'm gonna do me" - cheapaudioman c.2021
Is that a Yamaha CR800 on the shelf ? One of my longtime favorites. Well built, designed to be serviceable, a minimal amount of bean counter interference with manufacturing. I miss those days. These days most audio products are like cell phones… new every two cause they only last that long. Randy , too much coffee will make you poop …lol Great rant. I still have my Pioneer SK31 boom box . I can listen to music on anything. I used to be audiofoolish. Now I know better. BTW I recently refurbished a pair of Futterman H3aa . They can only be used with stacked Quad 53’s my collector customer tells me. I really enjoy your channel , keep up the good work. Two Wiim Pros in the house with external Dac’s ( Cal Audio ) and my custom Dyna ST-70 still giving me goosebumps. Cheers dude.
I subscribe to the John Cage school of composition: a piece should sound different each time it's played, in each place it's played, and even at different places in the performance area at a single performance. "Every seat is excellent, because from each one, you will hear something different." -- John Cage
I listen to a lot of classical music. Even though they play the same notes, Beethoven's Fifth Symphony sounds different depending on who the conductor is. Bernstein and the New York Philharmonic, Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra or Maazel and the Vienna Philharmonic.
Excellent video. Have a friend who's an audiophile. He forgot how to enjoy music and became a hifi-bore instead. He's spent thousands on equipment and is never satisfied. I have 20 year old speakers and a 20 year old amp - both of which survived a house fire, and am happy.
I had a friend who is an audiophile and I can relate. It was always about the quality of the recordings which I understand, but it was never about the music per se. I realised a long time ago that spending thousands of pounds on audio equipment to get a marginal improvement on a setup that is much cheaper is just insane.
Spot on. Being in sales myself Im baffled at the ignorance I’ve met visiting hifi-shops. I’ve only met maybe one or two good salesmen in hifi-shops. It’s because the nature of the product draws staff that treat it as a hobby. It’s very difficult to be a great seller when you love your product more than selling in itself. I’m in the market for new speakers so I’ve visited 7 different shops so far. None have asked me what music I want to hear. That’s kind of the first rule of selling, know your customer. Interview them. I hate the term audiophile in general. I listen to music, and I love listening to a good system. Do you get better systems for more money? Often. But diminishing returns start pretty early. Value is subjective but so is music. I’ve had equipment that measures fantastic and sound boring as hell. And I’ve had equipment that measures poorly and engages me to listen for longer sessions. The whole concept of audiophiles is stupid
I have a degree in physics and used to work in live theater sound. I have had audiophile friends asking all sorts of questions. Speaker cables are the one that gets me. They worry about cable that needs to transmit at most a few tens of kilohertz with plenty of voltage, maybe if our hearing extended into the megahertz or if our amplifiers put out microvolt level signals should we worry a bit about our cables. Just make sure there's enough copper to handle the current to your speakers then sit back and listen. Don't worry about oxygen, unobtanium or whatever fancy insulation or connectors you've been told you need, copper wire is just fine.
I had a buddy in a popular metal band. His kids were friends with my friends, that kind of thing. Super cool dude. He listened to album mixes through his phone over consumer headphones outside a Wendy’s in a pretty noisy area while our families were having lunch. That album won a Grammy.
I'm not even into audio that much but I love this video. In any endeavor of man a snobbery develops, or "experts" creating "expert" things so they can feel good about themselves being "experts" when generally they aren't.
As a comment snob, it pains me to feel good about comparing your comment to drinking a slightly above room temperature pineapple fanta purchased from a recently stocked Walgreens after it drained off the windshield of a 2004 dodge caravan during a spring morning at sea level.
"The price doesn't dictate the quality" learnd that decades ago .... when people would throw out perfectly good Hi-Fi equipment to replace it with the latest and greatest plastic effort ...when the NAD 3020 amp ... and AR18 speakers i found in a skip worked perfectly well!.... about two years later the sane person disposed of a denon drm44 cassette deck and a damaged linn LP12!! That was in the early 90s
Literally every piece of audio gear I own was free. The stuff I've got cost somebody thousands of dollars, I paid nothing because they got rid of it and spent thousands more on something newshiny.
@@danender5555 Hey, if you sit at the right street corner at the right time, I'm sure you could get some too. But no, it was a lot less random than that.
@@danender5555 I'm trying to recall if I've ever sat at a street corner. I can't think of a time I have. And for audio gear it probably wouldn't work anyway, what do you put on the sign? "Will work for high-end audio gear"? It seems destined for failure.
Hahaha! Perfect, really perfect! And to your point 1. I actually happen to record an EP with my band back in the day. The recording studio was a professional one we paid for with our own money. Some bands who actually had some success recorded their LPs in that studio, with that engineer. Well, our drummer was particularly fastidious with how the music should have sounded neutral, hence the engineer recorded the first demo. It was sounding decent in the studio monitors. Then he put it on tape (we were in the early 90s) and said "ok, now you go in your car and put this in your car stereo and tell me how it sounds. Because 100% of the people who will listen to this will not listen to it in this studio". We went in actually my car, with a normal car stereo and it sounded completely flat and basically crap. We went back to the studio, the engineer made all the adjustments he had to do, gave us a new tape and said "Now listen to this". Back in my car, same car stereo, and it sounded great. Artists have no clue what they want, sound engineers do. And they do their magic in a way that it doesn't matter how crap your stereo is, music will still sound decent.
@@noname-fk6rs Unless you know any single name of any single band who made a demo and didn't make it to the charts everywhere in the world OUTSIDE of the US, do you realise you're sounding a bit like a smart arse?
Most bands approve masters by listening to the music through as many systems as possible. Speaking from experience. Headphones, car systems, phone speakers, audiophile systems, all of it. The most important for a master to sound good is through the most commonly used speakers.
@@jellyd4889 Those things sound awful! I tried those once..that was enough for me! My ears couldn't take that noise.., and the sound quality was horrible!
@@jimmyroocoh8696 Those earpods really do sound awful. Airpods also not so great and is all just hip. Airpods pros are quite acceptable though. I am actually quite impressed on the speaker on my iPhone 13 Pro max. It sounds really clean and seperates the stereo channels well, but still it's nothing compared to my 7.1 system. That's where all the serious music listening and enjoyment comes. It's the only system I can listen to music on for hours and not get bored. I will listen to the same songs through headphones but it's just not the same, especially with the new Dolby Atmos songs. Those are really fun to listen to and are really immersive. Just not on Airpods. The "Dolby Atmos" they give is garbage and it's better to disable it. It basically hampers the audio quality and it constatly makes you second guess if the music is being played from your headphones or outloud through your phone with how it sounds. Only use this if you really have an Atmos AVR and System. You also need an apple TV 4k to get this feature on apple music (Airplay doesn't work even though it's definitely capable). I am not sure if there is a other way with tidal.
Thank you for this. I simply LOVE the sound coming from my little plastic LG Music Flow Wi-Fi speakers. 14 of them, all over the house. They rock the joint, and I love them. I'm 48 years old and I've never loved a sound system like I love this one. Less than $1600 invested. Enjoyed for 7 years and counting.
I am far from an audiophile having grown up in the 70`s with one hit bongs and Grand Funk Railroad blaring from a stereo I bought at Gibsons or Sears, but I always thought the best starting point for HiFi was the harmonic distortion produced by the receiver. BTW, after a few one hitters from the bong, I stopped caring!
No, Randy is really very drunk this morning and it was boring to watch him slur his way over the same points. Spend less on booze and you'll have more left for audio gear.
@@hikerpunk2823 Well, I certainly wouldn't call it boring. He was coherent. He wasn't falling over drunk. Regardless, it kept me watching to the end. If I were to speculate, I'd guess he needed a drink to say what needed to be said. The insights addressed in this video are definitely tough to swallow for many. But, I'm glad he used his platform to say it.
For 1. You have successfully described what is known as the Circle of Confusion. It's a *circle* because the consumer doesn't know what was intended, so they should stop pretending that the studio was perfectly tuned a specific way. I think we should try to fix this, but it's gonna be very difficult to impossible to convince the entire chain from studio to end user to standardize *everything* measurement wise. Also nice AJFA and In Utero posters, damn. That's two of my all-time favorite albums right there
@@cheapaudioman I still hang out with Resolve over at the headphone show on some of his streams now. And if you ever want to stream with me sometime for an interview or just a general Q/A with the audience, let's set something up. I saw people on reddit were recommending your channel and I'd seen it briefly before, so came to check it out
There's a Buzz Osborne interview you may enjoy on the podcast Tone Mob where he takes a few minutes (from the point of view of a musician that has been around the mastering process of his own music a bunch) explaining the limitations of vinyl LPs. He says that the CD versions of his music sound like what he actually played. In his opinion, what people think they perceive as warmth in that situation is "compression & clipping". He said he'll sell vinyl as long as people think they want it, but finds it baffling.
Hey Randy @cheapaudioman I really love your videos. They really do ground me in reality without dipping into the more iffy parts of the audiophile community. I started not too long ago when a friend gave me a SHP9500 and I was opened to a whole new world of sound. I went to my local audiophile store and tried out as many headphones as possible and found that I loved the DT 900 Pro X the most. There were occurrences in the audiophile group where people told me that planars are objectively better when I insisted that it was purely subjective. Then I got told Metallica and all the other music I listened to was trash and I need to listen to “audiophile music” like Hotel California or some Beethoven recordings. At first I thought people you mentioned were an extreme minority. But turns out I’ve ran into a lot of people that you’ve mentioned in this video!
When I am at college on electronic course, I make my own amplifier from scratch. And built my two way speaker from a hard paper box. Use my bed as part of subwoofer. Then I went to work with Yamaha audio designers engineers, learn a lot on sound characteristics & materials. Never lets price & the looks to determine a real good sound of any system.
Becoming an audiophile since the 1960s. During that era the plurality of audiophiles rather they multimillionaires or paupers did not, select audio systems due to their price or superficial appearances. And mainly purchased audio systems within their reasonable budgets. Within their budget limitations audiophiles purchased audio systems sonic qualities that they considered "sounded nearest" to among the well known high end state of the art reference audio systems. That's typically how audiophiles evaluated audio systems during this period.
“What if it goes on sale?” Lol. Brilliant! I laughed so hard my cheap subwoofer moved. I’ve just discovered your channel and this is the first video I’ve watch. Made my day, thanks.
I know a very experienced audio engineer that owns a studio and makes a living by setting up 40+ speaker setups in soundproofed rooms. Guy only uses 125$ AKG headphones that are retailing for 75$ right now. I’ve heard what he does and when he recommends me those headphones and 350$ Wharfedale speakers, I take his suggestions very seriously. I was shocked at first with what he recommends cause of that ‘hi-fi starts at X$’ crap. So yeah, totally on your side when it comes to this video. I appreciate you making it.
My biggest surprise after getting into this hobby, was listening to old music on better gear. I could hear things like depth, separation, vocals, dynamics, all which helped me reconnect with the music I loved in my childhood (e.g. Scorpions!). It brought me closer to the being there, either a live recording or the studio, and the music evoked emotion. For me that is what an audiophile is, someone who craves that experience. But, keep yourself on budget, and an open mind, that this experience can be had on any system at any time at any price. Not sure we have total control on when we have these experiences. Spending more money does typically ensure a more reliable way to have this experience, but even then it is not guaranteed to deliver every time.
Interesting rant! I guess I am an audiophile as I do own quite an expensive Hi-Fi. As a young guy I bought systems to suit my budget. Thankfully when I was in my 50’s my budget allowed me buy the system I have now. It’s roughly 15 years old and still sounds great. When I decided to “upgrade” I did the usual reading reviews and then going to a Hi-Fi place to have a listen. But, for my current Hi-Fi I went along to a Hi-Fi store and asked if they can set up this CD player; that amp and those speakers. Which they duly did in their dedicated listening room. I then put on a CD and sat back and listened. I must say I was a little confused as the volume dial was way up. The guy in the store politely explained that “those speakers” need to be driven with a pre amp. Okay? I asked him to add the pre amp. Wow! It made a massive difference and the speakers/ music sounded amazing. The trouble is I hadn’t budgeted for the pre amp. It took me a couple of months to bite bullet and buy system. I can honestly say I don’t regret it. The Hi-Fi still sounds great after 15 years. Another reason I guess I am an audiophile is that I like to sit down and LISTEN to music. A lot of people don’t sit down, they just put on a CD and hear it as they are doing something else. But one thing I would never do is say someone else’s system is crap. Or someone else’s music taste is crap. Never! Everyone has a choice to buy what they want depending on their budget. But I think that when you need a pre amp to drive your speakers it therefore can be deemed hi end Hi-Fi…. and therefore an “audiophile”. Enjoy your music everyone.
@@mirsidorov5112 Hi Mir, My Hi-Fi system is Naim from the Classic Series. CD Player CD5XS, amp NAC202 and preamp NAP200. Unfortunately all are now discontinued. I added the Naim Streamer ND5 XS2 recently. My speakers are Italian; Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor which are also discontinued! It’s not a truly hi-end system but close enough in my humble opinion. There’s a video of the speakers with a Nat King Cole song used to demonstrate speakers on TH-cam. I hope you are listening to and enjoying music.
Commercial studio owner from Chicago here. Wanted to pop in with my favorite -ism from the community: “Not all differences in audiophile technology can be measured, use your ears!” Okay, how many times have we made changes to an EQ or some other processor, thought it sounded SO much better, then realized it was in bypass mode? Anecdotal for sure, but this situation is also very relatable and showcases how incredibly biased a minds are.
I'll put it another way for you. If it 'can't be measured' with gear, it sure as hell isn't going to be 'measured' by your ears, a much less precise set of 'measurement gear' ;)
I do theatre lighting and it’s amazing you can say to the director you’ve changed the levels of some lights. They can see it. Interesting as in reality you’ve not changed a thing. Btw I’ve done the eq in bypass thing as well and been convinced it was different
@@VideoArchiveGuy Sad to say but... yes! If you want to do this for a living, you probably want to reach the masses as opposed to the genius specialists in the basement with a $100K set of Italian speakers. Any engineer or sound designer etc. will at some point during the mixing process, do his or her best to mimic the average consumer's listening environment.
@@mountainousterrain1704 I can tell by your sarcasm that you already know those two aren't mutually exclusive. I'm definitely not here to defend shitty engineers, I'm only saying that at some point in the process most engineers at minimum, will need to make sure the mix translates. I personally mix in a damn near perfect room but, if I were to print a mix without going to my car, computer speaker, phone, etc. to give it a listen, I wouldn't be doing right by the artist. Most people hear music for the first time in those settings.
@@SirMixAlotChannel No, you don't have to. TH-cam and all the streaming services normalize and compress anyway, so there's no need for the producers and mastering engineers to do so.
I am a very well trained amateur violinist. I love listening to classical music. I couldn't care less about the audio quality at all as long as I can hear it clearly enough for the interpretation of the piece to come through. The purity of the sound is not what makes the music beautiful to me. Of cause I operate by a completely different set of standarts when I am playing myself but being pedantic about the quality of your sound is just a part of being a musician. The "that's how he intended it to be played" is actually a somewhat valid argument in this area.
Audiophiles: we are serious people who seek audio nirvana it is not smoke and mirrors. Also audiophiles: make certain you plug the cable in the right way around so the electricity flows the correct way
Directional cables are a real thing with real benefits. Not to be confused with the smoke and mirrors crap that does seem to go along with the term audiophile.
@@chadschoening4352 To my knowledge the directional cables (HDMI?) are directional for the sake of shielding or digital signals. How that is a thing with speaker cables is beyond the realms of science...right?
@@secularnevrosis there are directional RCA cables. Not sure about the HDMI but I'm sure they work work on the same principal.. speaker cables on the other hand.. yeah no. No directional speaker wires that I'm aware of. It's just two wires, not a cable per say.
Lot of capacitors are directional, & U do notice differences if U bother 2 check this, like when wiring speakers with the wrong 'absolute phase' will sound worse.
Former studio engineer here. All of this is true. All Of It. I love how audiophiles who only listen to vocal music, or three piece jazz think that if speakers can't respond to metal, for instance, its the music or the mixes fault. Nope. If you listen to very simple ,clean, easy to mix music, of course it sounds amazing in your "transparent" speakers. It's airy, because there's a lot of air! A dense recording, complex, with very close ratio instruments and vocals, requires a much more agile speaker or stereo. In reality, speakers and systems should all be measured by how well they play symphonies and complex metal albums. If they can play that well, then your Asian vocal Jazz is probably gonna sound amazing.
Yes it is true what you say. Dense music will be more complicated to reproduce because it becomes complex to record and mix. In addition it takes more energy from your audio equipment and if it is not able to follow it will sound bad with ensembles with a lot of instruments playing at the same time. A big band sound will be more difficult to reproduce than a jazz trio, that's obvious.
They are! During one of your reviews for a pair of KOSS headphones you said “Not for the money, they’re just great headphones period!” It was so refreshing to hear you say that.
When I built my system I had a set budget, about 70% of that budget went to 2 speakers and a sub. The remaining 30% went to an integrated class D amp. This setup was designed where the listening point is within 5 feet from speakers, therefor I didn't need high watt/power system. After spending considerable amount of time tuning the system, the sound felt clinical. But very clean, very clear, just had no 'soul'. The issue was not the class D amp, it was the integrated DAC. When I placed a Schiit multi-bit DAC into the data stream, the entire sound changed. One of my friends has a system that cost the price of an automobile, but that setup is addressing a 1000 sqr/ft room with vaulted ceilings, so they require dual mono class A/B amps at 500+W each. Per them, my sound is finely tuned to my space that sounds as good as their system that cost 8-times the cost from mine. My point is, cost is relative based upon the size of your listening space. The larger the room (listening space) the more expensive equipment you require in order to fill that sound space if you are looking for a 'specific sound'.
"This is not how the artist intended this to sound like" basically says: "You gotta have super expensive stylish hifi gear like I do to enjoy music. Without it it's impossible!"
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Randy, this is just what I needed today. Hahaha! Much better than I had thought it might be. I f 'n loved the "snowflake speaker" comment about the Kef LS50's!!!! So true.! Everything you said was right on. And your attitude was so genuine and down to earth common sense. I was like, "Yeah, about time someone said this". Anyway, loved it. I also enjoyed the interview with the Schitt man you and your friend did. You did an awesome job. I'm glad Schitt moved to Corpus Christi. God bless Texas! ✌️
A lot of yes , no and maybe here? Yes there’s lots of subjectivity with playback systems and ones perceptions and preferences. And there’s no way to know exactly (that’s prob subjective too) how recording engineers intended things, if at all! Still, my senses tastes and experiences still tell me that Haagendaz is better than Breyers, a Gordon Ramsey burger is super to Mcdonnalds, Armani is better than Gap, and 25 year old McKellen is superior to Jonny Walker black label! NO, we can’t actually define “accurate sounding!” However, my senses , imagination, and experience can decipher what’s likely closest sounding to what’s capable of any given recording, as played through what I consider better tools
In all fairness, if it is mixed with basic products, it can probably be heard through basic equipment.
The companies that sell the gear are worse than the audiofools. Forget Hi-Fi, the best thing I ever did was to buy some active studio monitors, these are as accurate as you can get for speakers and amplification. My $250 M-audio BX5 active monitors outperform my $1200 Hi-Fi! And M-Audio isn't even the best manufacturer out there.
NO FRIGGIN WAY YOU'RE A FOOL.
"normal people use audio hardware to listen to music, audiophiles use music to listen the audio hardware " -- random guy on a pc hardware forum.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
It's true! I used to be one of those guys, and you are right, listening to the differences between different gear etc, tiresome
@@geddylee501 glad you made the 12 steps towards the exit :)
mad bc hes right
😅
I used to buy into the whole “audiophile” scene but after getting more into recording and studio gear (now using Genelec monitors and RME for DAC), I’ve realized not only does consumer hi-fi stuff has a ton of hype priced into it, almost nobody talks about how at a certain point, the acoustic treatment of a room plays a bigger role than incrementally improving the gear.
110% The room becomes more important very very quickly
just get a headphone then the room not so important anymore lol
the thing about crazy priced audiophile gear is they are not intended for you unless if you are super rich and own a mansion specifically renovated for audiophile purpose
with house pricing flew through the sky nowadays and everyone cramped in one small apartment its becoming very difficult hence the closed back headphone route is the way to go
@@loucipher7782 I know this reply probably wasn’t just meant for my use case, but since you replied to this thread, I’ll say for the recording hobbyist you really have to do both; very few people do recording and mixing entirely in headphones, and if like me you are recording instruments and vocals, you have to do at least some acoustic treatment anyway. It’s unfortunately not a cheap hobby any way you cut it.
@@raydollete444 i was under the impression that audiophile only goes one way, the listening part and in vocal recording mostly people use closed back headphones anyway so there wont be double sounding? atleast thats what i saw in every artist MV.
Anyway its good to have the best of both worlds if you can do it, i'm not against it or anything but it will certainly cost more
The acoustics change the sound. Facts
My favorite line of BS from self proclaimed audiophiles is in relation to CD drives. The notion that highly accurately controlled speed is somehow necessary for "good" sound reproduction from a disc transport is simply amazing. It's almost as if they don't know and are incapable of understanding that the only thing the transport does is spin the disc so that the laser can read the coded information, which included the time reference. That information is then buffered in software memory and decoded by the DAC. The simple fact is that with enough memory and power the transport could spin at 10,000 RPM for a few seconds to read all the info, and then stop moving completely for the duration of the music playing.
A few years ago, I saw an audiophile claim that there were tangible differences in the audio, being streamed from different brands of hard drive, along with a "review" of the audio qualities of several different hard drives.
I for one really like the warmth and glow I get from the ones and zeros on Seagate drives. I find it adds a pleasing cromulence to the treble frequencies. Of course I only use gold plated USB cables, so that the ones and zeros come out all polished and shiny, and in a pleasing san-serif font
This probably made more a difference when the drives couldn’t read very far ahead. Remember some transports even had fancy clamps?
@@raydollete444 It has never been true. One of the great selling points when CDs first came out was that they were "skip proof". This was because they spun the disc and buffered the code for several seconds in hardware/software before they actually started playing. Yes, I remember some transports with fancy clamps and other geegaws, but they were all just so much snake oil to attempt to make a given product look "better" to the consumer boost profit margins. Don't get me wrong, in the early days there truly were some that were much better than others. Some did have truly atrocious mechanicals that were prone to outright failure, but mainly due to the limitations of memory and processing power available for reasonable costs, but consistency of the speed of the disc was never a factor
@@edbennett8257
Different CD mechanisms do affect ripping accuracy. I buy CDs, then rip to FLAC. The FLAC can then be compressed to MP3 or what have you. Some old CDs I have are on their way to data heaven (bit rot), and these present more problems for some CD mechanisms I have used.
@@boggisthecat True, but it is merely a difference in firmware, not speed stability. Some drives oversample more than others, and some have better laser focus which allow them to compensate for corrupted bits, scratches, or other damage. I was speaking strictly about stable speed of the drive affecting the playback quality in the same way that variations in turntable speed will cause wow and flutter. Wow and flutter do not exist for CD drives, unless the quartz timing chips in the hardware are defective and causing variations in decoding.
I'm an engineer who has worked in the "premium brand" electronics industry for almost 2 decades. There are a limited number of manufacturers of components--most products trying to achieve the same function use the same parts or another manufacturer's version of the same parts. Also remember that no matter the sales price, the motivation of the manufacturer is always to minimize cost. While there are quality differences between semiconductors, it's usually much more of a longevity issue than a functional issue. Resistors, Capacitors, and Inductors are where you may "hear" effects. The digital stuff either works or it doesn't. You either have a good design or you don't. Most "premium" brands are virtually indistinguishable in actual function and parts selection from the mass-consumer stuff. Often, they are the same thing with "badge engineering" (change the name and charge 5x the price). A lot of well known brands are owned by the same companies and designed by the same engineers using the same parts. Sometimes, companies will sell the same product under several different brands to capture the "brand loyalty" factor of consumers. There are a few products out there specifically engineered to be better in some respects, but it is a lot of diminishing returns. I personally hate the term "audiophile" because there has been so much snake-oil. $50K speaker wires, magic spray that gives your CDs that "warm, analog sound" (which is not only impossible, but is admitting that people are chasing a particular colored sound as opposed to "purity"). I once saw an article where a guy said his friend gave him his old $10K speaker wires because he got some $20K speaker wires. He said he couldn't hear any difference (I'd say you could use Romex and most people couldn't hear the difference). He said his dog seemed to like the sound of the new speaker wires, which confirmed something he'd always suspected: his dog has better hearing than him.
I have a degree in electronics, microprocessor technology, basic wiring systems, basic electrical fundamentals, and industrial electrical systems. You're spot on. Copper is probably still the best way to go for transmitting info to the speakers, then it's the gauge of the wire. Beyond that, it's really silly to over analyze to the point of idiocy. Sure there are quality tolerances in resistors, capacitors and such, but most ears can't hear the difference. One exception I have found, is in coils. Especially the larger ones. But that's more in the quality of the build, (solder joints, base assembly and such), and not the materials. Again, copper is copper.
I can add a lot more "Warmth" with the RC20 VST, which is something that ACTUALLY AFFECTS AUDIO than some b.s. magic placebo spray or some pricey cables.
what a wild ride of a comment, for audio gear designing to crazy people spending a cars worth on copper for their dog lmao
Thanks for the reality check, very refreshing.
@Regulus --- Quark: I want you to try something for me. Take a sip of this.
Garak: What is it?
Quark: A human drink. It's called root beer.
Garak: I don't know.
{ Garak scowls/snears }
Quark: Come on. Aren't you just a little bit curious?
{ Garak sighs, and cautiously drinks... }
Quark: What do you think?Garak: It's vile.
Quark :I know. It's so bubbly and cloy and happy.
{ Garak smiles slowly as Quark speaks }
Garak: Just like the Federation.
Quark: But you know what's really frightening? If you drink enough of it, you begin to like it.
Garak: It's insidious.
Quark: Just like the Federation.
Garak: Do you think they'll be able to save us?
Quark:I hope so.
When I first got into audio I found a lot of snake oil pretty quickly. For me, it came down to this. The difference between the 2-5K systems from the audio store and the $700 rack system at the big box store was night and day. The difference between the 2-5K systems and the 50K systems was the difference between 12 noon and 12:15 pm. $15K speaker cables are a big ass red flag to me. I call that product a "stupid tax."
Don't be ridiculous, those speaker cables are made from audiophile-grade atoms.
The guy who invented those cables is chillin on a beach in Tahiti sipping mohitos right now 😎
Honestly, you can spend shitloads of money on hardware.. but many don’t focus on controlling your listening environment/room which is way more important. I could have a 15k-20k setup but have some wild nulls/etc, to me that’s stupid as fuck. In essence your equipment is not working properly.
I’ll take a 3k setup including studio monitors + sub, DAC, and regular xlr wires, but in a properly treated room (doesnt mean a dead room). Taking that over 20k worth in audiophile equipment. Tbf, properly treating a room can cost a lot too.
Spot on
@@a-listercrowley2737 While listening to some music on a cheap bluetooth speaker 😅.
You can tell it is audiophile level quality, when your purchase helps someone else get that much closer to owning a yacht.
And what's a yacht ? A hole in the water where you can dump stacks of money in !
And what device did you use to post your comment on here, latest iPhone or iPad, cheapest smartphone or old second hand pc
Wow so clever, but it is only that, a clever quip that has no meaning or relevance to what is being said and discussed.
Way too often, that is the case. Especially cable makers. Basic level is $400.00 for a good pair of interconnects, and their premium ones are $8000.00 ?? Most of us know what the bastards are doing.
Audiophiles spend so much time listening for what they have been told to hear they stop enjoying the music. The best upgrade I ever made was few pints of good beer then every thing sounds awesome.
Yes! 🤘🏼
I once was told by a unknown stranger that he once was intoxicated by THC while listening to his favorite music, and the experiece of the music was at least twice as good then without being stoned. But since he do not want to be addicted to drugs he started to spend his money on very expensive cables and cable lifters searching for audiophile nirvana.
@@mathiasjohannesson9833 😁😁😁
lol
@kenny hintz Of course the difference is audible. I have sensitive ears too, way above what they should be at my age. Ear fatigue is a real thing, I get it too when listening to early or badly made cd's. Very odd feeling, you can feel it, but can't put your finger exactly on what is the problem.
What people like about tube gear is the distortion of the sound. If digital distortion gets you tired and annoyed, tube distortion will get you relaxed. The same with vinyl records, they have the special "ability" to make sound flow like water. It is much harder to do this with digital recordings.
The problem is when things are taken too far, and absurd claims are made. Now tell me, how many guys do you know who turn down the lights and enjoy a couple of hours of music in their living room at least once a week? How many do you know who enjoy tasting a fine wine? Or a good book?
The most important thing I learned trying to get into "audiophile" stuff is that diminishing returns are huge and "good enough" is good enough.
My AVR (Yamaha), record player (Audio Technica), and 5.1 speaker setup (Sony bookshelves and Klipsch 12" sub) cost about $1000 altogether, maybe a little more. It sounds terrific to me, I enjoy listening to music and movies on it. I don't think upgrading a single component would make me any happier.
Pretty much golden standard of every hobby is diminishing returns
@@JaredSutter that’s ok, doesn’t mean it’s ok for others
I get shat on over on Reddit for liking $15 Skull Candy Ink Plus earbuds & $25 One Odio A71 Wired Over Ear Cup Headphones. Apparently the ONLY way to properly enjoy music is with a $300 set of headphones, and you can ONLY listen to FLAC files.
Most of the time, at the extremes of the top end there aren't even "diminishing returns," there's just literally no returns period.
People are seriously spending hundreds or thousands to get nominal "improvements" that are either empirically not measurable, or so off in the weeds that they're far outside the realm of human hearing capability to detect. It's amazing. Audiophools will throw thousands at a "problem" that's not actually a problem in any meaningful way, and then claim that their solution "just sounds better" than something an actual audio electronics engineer with a degree and everything could have pointed them to for a fraction of the price.
As a musician I can confirm this. Whenever we record something with our band, we do the mix & mastering with high quality headphones(iem's) or studio speakers or passive speakers but after we're done doing that it's more exciting to see how the music is going to sound on different parameters like yeah shitty headphones or cars or phone speakers because the majority of the people don't even have top of the line headphones anyway, so it's more important to understand how my music is going to sound in cars and average priced headphones&speakers.
Burzum has an incredible sound and it’s made from crappy cheap equipment.
30 years ago i used to work in a TV studio. One day we were making a musical show. The guy in the audio booth was monitoring the sound of the orchestra with studio monitor. Then he did something that really surprised me. He switch to small full-range speakers. i asked him why he was doing this since he had those « better » expensive speakers? He said he had to make sure his mix will sound good on every receivers,small, big, hi-fi or not. Small speakers are less forgiving if there is too much bass or too much high. Move forward, 5 years ago i vas working on a musical video and I had a big argument with the audio engineer because it sounded like crap. He argued that he used very expensive speakers and very expensive software emulators etc... The whole production staff was on his side until i asked him to play it back in his car. Bam! The problem was his expensive sound system. So it’s not the price that makes it right.
I mixed a song these last few days. I thought it was done, I cross referenced it in my car, on my hifi and on two different pairs of headphones, and I needed to make adjustments. Basically, thanks to my Sennheiser HD485 headphones, I noticed some really annoying frequencies that I was able to scoop out. Only minor level adjustments are left to do now, along with taking out some high end air from the vocals and the snare, and that'll be it. The HD485 are kinda old and were affordable. Cross referencing is important. Those headphones aren't audiophile headphones, but they helped me a note.
I always mix my music firta with my studio headphones but especially with the cheap 20$ Xiaomi headphones from my smartphone.
@@willissudweeks1050 burzum never had an amazing sound. Cringe with white noise.
In Mexico, we have something called the "Chivas Regal effect" you see, Tequila use to be a cheap product intended for the poor and people just concerned to be drunk. A brand came with the great idea to raise the price in order to appear like a high-end product for the elites. Now Tequila is exported all over the world with pride and considered as a fine product for "educated" buyers.
How many people judge which product is better based only on the price tag?. Common-sense tend to say that a expensive product is better than a cheaper one, but some manufacturers know this and will take advantage. (also happen in other industries)
the best example of this is Apple products in general
I'm no tequila guy at all, but a few year ago, a guy lined up ~8 tequilas for me to taste. The cheap ones (wait for it) burned my throat on the way down, the $120 was smooth......HOWEVER!!! the Costco brand tequila was as good as the $120 bottle
I think it all depends on the product, we must all remember and manufacturer will charge whatever they think they can sell, of course they want to charge the highest price the public will pay to increase profits, thats just good business sense I guess, buyer be ware and all.
there simply is no cheap tequila where i'm at. nor cheap vodka. hah! all so high-class stuff...
@@itnaklipse1669 Are you in Sweden? 😂 Booze is expensive here.
I’m a sound engineer, at work we have several studios with the same gear, but it sounds different because the lay-out of the rooms is different. So how on earth can you say ‘how the artist intended.. 🤯there are so many variables!
I liked this rant!:-)
At which place do you work?
@@rabarebra odd question
@@HoloScope Not a odd question to ask what kind of place he works at. Could be anything, or just something he says. You do not need to have asperger's like you do, who thinks that I specifically asked for his ID, Bank account, and home address. LOL, weirdo!
It's cool to know which studio he works at. Could be Abbey Road studio. They use lots of Quested speakers.
@@rabarebra that's funny because I actually have Asperger's 😭
True that! I constantly listen to different types of music and critique sound engineers, while listening to different recordings. I easily can hear the worst recordings through my monitors .Most of my equipment is the best vintage that bring out the finest in detail with great specs. There are those who are sold on buying hi-end and there are those who truly listen.
Your rant against some people's arrogant audiophile mentality made me forget about my own troubles for a moment on a very difficult and dark day. This video is a year old so the chances that you will read my comments are small but I would like to offer my thanks anyway. Keep making your videos!
My friend is a musician and an a/v engineer. He has a saying I've taken to heart "sounds good, is good". If you're enjoying it, it’s good. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.
I UNDERSTAND BUT MONEY MEANS MORE THAN JUST SOUND. BETTER BUILT.
th-cam.com/video/pSfCQNW00dk/w-d-xo.html
@@ronniewall1481 bro they're all made in China
@@whydoe5289 NOPE
@@whydoe5289 YOU DON'T KNOW MUCH.
When I'm at the final stages of my master, I always do listening tests on 3 other sound systems:
1. 2.1 channel PC speakers
2. Standard headphones/earphones
3. In my car
Because that's what the majority of people listen on. If you can make them sound good on these, then it'll sound even better on a quality sound system.
Exactly! Just made nearly the same comment.
@@worm6820 It certainly can happen, and does in the higher echelons of the music business. It happened to a friend of mine. They recorded and mixed their album here in Austin, but took it to a mastering guru in, I believe it was, NYC to "master" their final mix. Their live sound is very bottom heavy, as was their final mix and their previous recordings. But when he came back from having it done, something that isn't cheap and he had been excited about for a while, he asked me to listen to the cut again without telling me it was the final product. We listened to it on the sound system at the music venue where we worked, where most of their local shows were played, and my first reaction was, "What happened to the bottom?!" He then told me that it was filtered by the mastering engineer because it was his opinion that it would overwhelm the average sound system and appear distorted. :( He wasn't happy about my response and I would probably not have mentioned it had I known it was going to be the final FINAL mix that went to the CD manufacturers. But he wanted an honest opinion, and that's why he played it for me again without telling me first. Good thing that I got to continue running sound for them and enjoying that big fat bottom end through our "mostly" Crown/JBL equipped system. And I can always listen to their other records that weren't stepped on by the "pro's" in the industry.
On a side note, another friend of mine went to work for a large label, increasing the chances that his band would be able to release something under their umbrella of influence, reputation, marketing, distribution, etc. It's a big boost in the chances of your success in the industry. They recorded an album, but it was never released because it got stuck in the cogs of the the giant web of management when someone in the chain of decision making never could make up their damn mind about the sound of the kick drum. Imagine that! All that work, someone else owns it, and you can't release it because some moron doesn't like the way the kick sounds.
I say make the final master the best it can possibly be on the highest end system you have access to. If someone is listening to it on a lesser system that can't handle the dynamics or frequency reproduction, and they notice that it doesn't sound right, they should have the ability to adjust the levels of their equipment to best suit it's limitations. If they don't notice there is distortion, then who cares. That's my philosophy anyway. :)
@@shmaknapublar That would make sense if most people weren't listening through ear buds or car stereos. I'm not going to pull over and adjust EQ on my car stereo every time I listen to a different album. If I have to spend $20K on my stereo for your mix to sound good, your mix sucks!
@@lavachemist Program your user presets for crying out loud. You won't have to pull over. ;) And you don't need to spend a ton of money to have a really great sounding stereo in your car or home. You just have to care enough to put some time in researching gear.
Decent ear buds will have no problem reproducing even the most dynamic music unless you are listening at levels that would do damage to the average person's hearing. I can't recommend any particular model as I haven't had any in over 20 years. But as far as headphones go, the best bang for the buck in my opinion is the classic Sony MDR7506. Enough volume and clarity to satisfy 95% of the population and durable enough to be used for hours on end 5 days a week for years.
Something to remember in almost any hobby is that diminishing returns are a huge aspect. 10x pricier will not gaurantee 10x better. It should be important to find where that point of balance is for YOU and for your own sanity
While it's true that 10X the price will not GUARANTEE 10X better, if you choose wisely, 10X the price CAN sound 10X better. On the other hand, my stereo is worth around $25K. And it's more musically and emotionally engaging that a $500K system I heard. Granted, the $500K system was very impressive and dynamic. But it just didn't move me.
A great point being high-end graphics cards, they’re priced many magnitudes more than midrange GPUs but don’t offer that much of a difference.
As an engineer and physics lecturer, I note that the pricier the equipment gets, there is a direct proportionality in the reliance on pseudo science to justify the costs. The perfect sound is much like the perfect painting, what was the artist hearing when they created the piece?
@@grinwald633 In some instances, it’s true that pseudo science is used top justify cost because science can’t offer an adequate explanation. I’ve always been a fan of Audience cables and power conditioners. As John McDonald, President of Audience said, “The idea of cables as components is a controversial subject. There are many who think that “wire is wire” and don’t accept that cables can either optimize or compromise the performance of an audio system. Traditional tests for difference in cable reveal very little if any electrical differences between brands. However, the human ear/brain is a far more sensitive and discriminating test apparatus and deciphers differences in cable brands rather easily. This ability can be developed much like wine tasting. As you become more experienced, differences, shadings and nuance become more readily noticeable.”
Newbies or people who just know enough about audio to think they know what they’re talking about are the first to snap back at comments like John’s, calling it placebo effect and snake oil. Invariably, they never listened to high-end components themselves to hear the difference. They just demand double-blind studies without understanding why they’re useless for evaluating audio gear. From the consumer point of view, I’m not that hung-up on the science. My integrated amp took 250 hours to break in. And I’ve yet to read a scientific explanation of what occurs during that break-in period. On the surface, a $200 Purple fuse seems ludicrous. But if it makes my $8K amp sound significantly better, I’m sold - simple as that.
@@LorenzoNW Hello there, as a late arrival to audiophilia, I was initially dismissive of several things I was told by committed but non technical audiophiles. Some but not all have proven to be true, and for the life of me I cannot offer a sensible explanation for the ones that appear to hold water. There is a reasonable technical argument for good quality cables, the human ear is an amazing instrument and can discern incredibly small changes. Changes that are barely discernable on an oscilloscope. I am also prepared to believe your amp breaking in over 250 hours. I would suggest that may be due to thermal cycling and impacted more by the number of times it was on and got warm/hot and switched off and allowed to hit a background temperature. It could be the quality of the capacitors or coils. But again there is probably a sound scientific explanation. Regards
As an audio engineer, audiophile forums are hilarious
"Warmth" is just fancy speak for "Subtle Harmonic Distortion & Slightly Better Midrange Presence."
And RC20 VST will let me add that. Heck, I can even add Vinyl Crackle or Tape Hiss -- and I bet some snobby Audio Hipster wouldn't even know it was just an altered CD Rip.
@@mana_beast_beats1114 How much per song? I have 1 million dollar budget.
I find audiophile products hilarious, I've been using studio monitors for years and when I got into the headphone game, almost every headphone lacks something major in the sound. It's like these people have specific fetishes for different aspects of sound and just no one is interested in a complete signature that plays everything well.
@@undefeatedmc and what headphone would you recommend
@@undefeatedmc well yeah that's kinda the point of being an audiophile, usually we do have one or two standard reference or daily use phones and a collection of cans for all different uses, one for crazy Soundstage, these ones have great imaging, bass, treble, sparkle, etc...alot of time is spent switching headphones to suit the current song that is playing, adjusting eqs...its definitely a fixation on how a certain piece of gear works and how to get the best from, and also satisfying your own preference in sound signature... I feel like a majority of the bs honestly is coming from the IEM/ultra high end community, those guys live on a cloud 😉
As a musician learning how to mix, master and record my own music, I can say every teacher out there will tell you this one thing.
Just because it sounds great in your room doesn't mean it will sound great everywhere else. That's why the most important thing is to translate your music to different sound systems of all kinds.
The key word is "Translate"
The artist doesn't care if you hear that tone specifically at 4k hz that is only able to be done in their room on their monitors or headphones.
The artist cares that you like the song and don't get distracted by a really rumbly or high pitch frequency that makes you want to turn off the song.
The wider accessibility we provide with our music, the better. We want as many people as possible to be able to listen to our music and feel the emotion we want to express. This means we want someone who is listening on a crappy car stereo to enjoy our music as much as the person with the $250,000 setup.
Musicians want one thing. To make a living doing what we love. How do we do that? We market to people who like the kind of music we're making. We're not marketing to the audiophile who claims to hear 25k hz tones that destroy a mix on their $250,000 setup in their living room made of gold record replicas. We're marketing to the people who like bands that share a similar sound to us in the arrangement of our music, aka Genre and Sub Genre.
Hardcore Audiophiles can kiss my butt because they're no better than the elitists who say people who can't shred 16th note triplets at 200 bpm should never pick up a guitar or the guys who say you need at least $25,000 worth of studio equipment to make a good record.
agree with most if not all of this
As a recording engineer, the things that you talk about are what hold me back from spending more on a home HiFi. At work I listen and record through $200k worth of gear in a full treated space. Artists approve mixes listening in their cars or over their airpods. Nobody gets to hear the final result any better than me and/or the mastering engineer. I heard the recording and mix at its best. Everywhere else is an approximation. Someone listens on a $500k system will it be better than what I heard. Absolutely not. I was there in the room with the musicians. Will it sound great? I hope so. Anyway, my home system maybe totals $2k in gear and I like it. It's meant for enjoyment. My system at work is picking apart everything. Analyzing every minute detail and it's exhaustion but it is meant to be. Anyway, good rant. Totally agree.👍
You know it could be better than what you heard. It won't be the same as what you heard, but it certainly could be better!
A friend of mine is a audio engineer , he basically told me the same. He loves smaller speakers nothing over the top. Cables are just XLR industrial standard anyone can buy for cheap .
He laughs at these prima Donnas too
@@RennieAsh It would just be different but still hopefully sound great.
"Artists approve mixes listening in their cars or over their airpods." I'd argue that those aren't artists, and if they are, they're at the beginning of their career, trying to get their music out. I doubt Roger Waters ever said "Hey, the tempo is good and we hit all the right notes. Release it."
@@rossnaheedy3400 aren't artists? They played the music and often times wrote it as well. That is most certainly an artistic exercise. To not call then artists is incorrect and elitist.
It's all about personal taste. I don't care how the artist "intended" it to sound. I just want it to sound good to me and that doesn't mean jacked up bass.
To be fair, it’s the engineers who do all the crazy work.
What ever happened to Beats headphones ? Did people finally catch onto the fact that they didn't really sound that good and cost a ridiculous amount of money ?
Yes hate jacked up bass. I think its best when it sounds you can hear the bass loud but not taking over everything else. I thinks its nice when you have space between all instruments and dont struggle to hear something, something like one of the early police albums . Albums need the be produced well as well as your hardware to have reasonable quality .
@@paulgoodwin3642 I have to laugh when I see these guys with expensive sound systems in their cars and they've got their bass so cranked up their car is rattling down the street. Their teeth are probably rattling too. 🤪📢🎵🎶
@@ldchappell1 theyre in search of the brown note. The one that make you crap your pants. Because theyre so far up their own arses they cant crap.
As a recording artist myself, I can tell you that we listen to the master on everything else other than the studio monitors. The whole point of a mastered song is to make sure that it sounds acceptable on what the majority people uses for listening to music, daaaaah....
A recording artist with no songs just phone videos 😂 ok 😭
That is pretty rotten of you.
@@leonardhpls6ah yes because everyone needs to share their lives on social media
yup, I like to mix stuff as a hobby and I listen back whatever I mix on my phone and car speakers. If it sounds fine on those AND my IEMs it's good to go and this approach hasn't let me down.
Jonas Aden does that too iirc
@@kaiserfakinaway5909 So you actually record each arrangement, then compare the recordings ? Interesting. It beats the labor of switching things back and forth 10 or 20 times.
Then once you narrow down a multiple comparison to the two best versions, you can do a final real time comparison. Thanks kaiser.
Go man go!
Yea! Go man go!
Speaking of a guy who has actually sat in on some recording sessions :) Thanks for all your reviews too Steve!
Yeah, man, go!
Dude, when Steve Guttenberg throws you a "Go man go!" on a video like this, that's gotta feel good.
Love every thing about this video. You're spot on, man. Love that you're keeping it real.
Heh...writes "The Audiophiliac." Love that you get the snark and don't take yourself seriously, Steve. And thanks for recommending the Chesky sessioned Fred Hersch Trio's 'Dancing in the Dark' album in the ELAC Uni-fi 2.0 UB52 review. That one slipped under the radar. Love that dude's work. His "Live in Europe" CD is on heavy rotation these days. Outstanding stuff.
Good video Randy! So true. Some of the best advise I have received re: stereo gear was this - the more you spend, the less the differences in sound as you go up in cost. There is a point of diminishing returns. The most important thing is not how much you spend on equipment. The most important thing is that you enjoy listening to your music.
It is basically the same with most things in life. I am not certain that you are into soccer, but it makes a good analogy. You can get a decent player for a million, but if you want 5% more capability, you probably have to pay 5 millions. If you want an additional 2% capability, then you probably have to spend 10 million and if you want an additional 1% capability like with top players like Haaland, Lewandowski, Mbappe etc, the you have to pay 100 million. The key thing is if it is worth it...
As a musician/producer/engineer/mixer with 25 years of experience I can say, your ROOM makes more of a difference than your speakers or amps ever will.
Speakers with better linearity off axis will inevitably sound better in any room.
Room treatment won't help much with nulls. Treatment also doesn't beat SBIR. Two subs will give a better low end result in room than any simple 2.0 or 2.1 setup with any amount of treatment. After proper placement and 2 subs, a home listener can focus on treatment, unless the initial room was too reflective.
A lot of bullshit in the pro audio world too! The amount of pro audio store clerks trying to sell pathetic foam absorbers for like 5 times the price you could build a set of rockwool bass traps that would outperform said foam absorbers any day of the week
At the end of the day, autosuggestion will change a system's sound the most.
Oh my, that foolish argument encountered here yet again! Just like saying that if you were a gynecologist, it would have also made you into an expert of making love! Yet, knowing all there is to know about genitalia does not automatically make you into a great lover Same here - the business of recording and "mixing" music does not really translate into knowing all there is to know about architectural acoustics. Or perceptual/medical acoustics. Cheers!
@@yoryteperman429 thank you
yes, this is why I practice my trump in a 14x28 empty wood building, the reveb and sound are amazing lol...
It's safe to say you are right. But we won't win against the head up the ass crowd.
It fills my heart with endless joy that you get up basically every day and mercilessly bully audiophiles whose opinions are so subjective that they think no one can argue with them. You're my hero.
Excellent! I was an Audiophile for most of my life... Then I started to learn how to play guitar. Not just love listening to music, but love creating it. Trying different picks, strings, messing with the controls of my amps and pedals, I could make it sound any of millions of ways.
Your favorite recording of say Gimme Shelter, or Smells like Teen Spirit, or All along the Watchtower... lotta talent there, but microscopic details of how that guitar sounded?
Keith, Kurt, and Jimi were all just loving whatever it sounded like that day. It was different at the next gig. The studio recording is just one of those days.
Now I have discovered how much of a dufus I was for all those years...
Listen and enjoy... and definitely don't buy 1,500 dollar audio cables!
Exactly, and if you listen to most musicians talk about their recordings or live sound most aren't happy with the final product the fans hold sacrosanct
I've said for a long time that I think audiophiles are overcompensating for the fact that they can't play, read, or write music themselves. It's interesting that you started to think differently once you started playing music on your own :)
I think being a sort of entry level audiophile is a pretty good place to be. Don't be obsessive but there's nothing wrong with spending a few hundred quid on a good set of headphones or studio monitors.
I discovered the world of audiophilia and hifi after becoming a sound engineer. I can recognize the advantages of high end equipment but at the end of the day, the laws of physics don't change. It's all a matter of how you choose to color (distort/filter) or not the original signal, which is almost entirely digitally processed since the 90's anyway. You can only do so much to a summed waveform. The real fun is the recording and mixing, where all the audiophiles should really put their ears
Yeah but a lot of people want to get a particular sound and to get that sound the best way is to use the same equipment as was used for the recording. Either that or modellers. Sure Kurt was spontaneous live but with Andy Wallace mixing I must imagine the process being cerebral rather than off the cuff.
4:28 I'm an Audio Engineer. Artists generally have very minor input on the actual mix/master of the song and don't really understand what we're doing. All they know is if it sounds nice or not and feedback from them is generally something very vague like "can you make this part a bit louder". They almost always listen on very consumer-level devices, and even their studio monitors are generally entry level shitboxes. If they have monitors at all.
The only exception to this that I can think of are EDM guys who generally mix and master their own stuff.
I'm an Audio Engineer who is also an artist. Many times I send my stuff to other mixing engineers because mixing my own stuff feels weird. I do know what they are doing and they do accept input. And I am recording punk rock. On the other hand, I have dealt with the typical annoying person who wants to give input without having a basic grasp on what is going on so, I understand that frustration.
However, there is a normalization of snobbism in the audio tech scene. Many engineers think everyone else is dumb except for them. It is a bad habit that has to be dealt with. Artists are getting more and more knowledgeable with time due to how accessible music production is in comparison to 20 years ago. Your comment says a lot about the kind of artists you are specifically not about the general production scene.
@@maskingtables I've worked with hundreds of artists, mixed and mastered thousands of songs and have millions of views on stuff I've worked on. So I don't know what you think my comment says about the artists I work with other than that they're very talented.
@@NathanOrlick although not a one size fits all obviously, I feel like your assessment is pretty spot on. As an amateur musician that has recorded a few times, although we did have input on mix/mastering, theres not a lot of input even needed on our end other than something possibly feeling slightly buried in the mix. I didn't understand everything involved although they were more than happy to explain when we showed interest out of just a general appreciation of the process. Definitely not something you learn overnight and I have a lot of respect for that process. Audio engineers I have dealt with have all been a pleasure to work with. I think small live venue sound guys can have the reputation for being arrogant but I've never really heard that being the case studio wise. Theres definitely a reason you see very few major artists with engineering credits on their albums, it's just not something the average musician knows unless they have ventured down that road themselves.
@@letsplayclassicgames5024 Cheers bro! And you got it, it's a specialty like any other. A great engineer should be able to understand the emotional core of what the song is about and maximise that on the way to the finish line. It's our job to make the artists vision a reality without bogging them down with a load of technical bullshit that they shouldn't have to worry about in the first place so that they can lean more heavily into their creativity and focus on things like marketing, videos, live shows etc.
I recently saw a picture of Paul McCartney listening to music. On an older iPhone.
I've made my first record as a teenager in 1981. The last one, this year. Basic R'n'R', New Wave, Punkish Reggae. Two electric guitars, bass, drums n' vocals (guests here and there with a tenor sax, or horns etc). From the day one, the recording and controlling was done on whatever large studio speakers they had. To hear each instrument as clearly as possible. Then the mixing came... to my shock back in 1981, the detailing of the final mix was done on a car speaker placed in a simple wooden box. When all the band stood in shock, "WTF?", the producer explained "It will be listened on TV speakers, small portable transistors and car stereos. If we make it sound good there, powerful and kicking, it will rock on every system." And it stayed true up to 2022.
That's right. I make music from 2013 as indie musician / passion not professionally ( I'm a engineer) actually I have 2 Yamaha monitor AND a sub monitor in my home studio. Maybe $1300 bucks. I have the Yamahas because is what other indie record labels here is using. They simply works. Also the $130 Audio Technica monitor works wonder. If the music sound professional on them of course will sound better on the big stereo in my living room.
What is the name of your band from 1981. I would be interested in hearing your music.
You are so wrong. Don’t compare your music to let’s say pink Floyd or Beatles. Those are mastered with care. Especially SACDs and vinyls which are intended for people who take their music seriously.
@@vitorfernandes651 Like you could tell the difference.
Not do Coke and Pepsi.
@@vitorfernandes651 Yeh but I promise you the mix engineers and mastering engineers would also have cross referenced on poorer playback systems....because thats literally their Job, ...to make a mix that translates
Thank you for all of your points!!!! SPOT ON !!!! The one that REEEHEEEALLLY gets to me are the visuals of monoblock amps sitting on floor stands, with massive cables the size of my leg, sprawling all over the room.
As a self-described ‘audiophile’, the best music reproduction system is the one near you when you want to listen to music. I have worked in high end audio for good portion of my career. I have designed and installed hundreds of 6 figure systems and designed and helped build many treated rooms for clients. I have a very good streaming speaker box for relaxing on the porch and a $50k audio system in my “man cave”. Ya know what? My little box gets more use because it portable and goes with me around the house. Can hear the difference? of course I can. If you have cheap ear buds or great system, just listen and enjoy. it important to remember that IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MUSIC!
@ColdPetRat2.99 I used to work in Business, I got very good deals on equipment. Besides, if you don’t believe me, I don’t care.
I think you missed the point of my post.
I was always more a record collector without paying as much attention to the hardware end as perhaps I should? Don’t know it was long ago. Since about the past few years I’ve gotten more into a putting together a decent stereo system. My system cost around $1,200 give or take, and am very happy with it.
You know a douchebag audio tool when they post their resume and how much expensive equipment they have prior to giving their I'm always right comment.
@ColdPetRat2.99
I don't know what planet you live one. My set-up is around 25k and of that, 12k is for the speaker components alone. The fact that I bought the components and built the speakers myself, means that they equate to speakers +50k. A good friend of mine built a dedicated listening house in the garden and the audio components alone were +600k.
I can attest as former recording artist. We did a lot of work on Yamaha monitors. Then demoed on jbl l100 for smiles, but the final mix was tweaked using the stock stereo in my guitar players 1980s Chrysler k-car station wagon. Lol. You want to build a fan base? You don't mix for a 10k audiophile system that only a few people actually listen to your music on. You grab the headphones with the orange foam, the crap car, and the old boom box cassette player and when it sounds as best it can there, you know you have something for the masses!
Thank you I was ready say the same they tried all the scenarios. Henson Studio still had a car outside till recently. Leland Sklar's video at talks about that on this video right at :45 - :55 second mark of this th-cam.com/video/djNrcHJP4TY/w-d-xo.html
This. This exactly.
Thanks. A point I was going to make. Most people aren't snobby about their sound systems and listen on ear buds or little all in one units. The music has to be mixed to sound fine on those systems. The movie "Once" (a great movie) has that process shown.
It's quite logical actually 😂
You know the magic.....Berry Gordy of Motown game use to mix his music to sound good in a car system, because that’s how mainstream listens to it!
People sometimes confuse Compression in terms of making the audio as loud as possible with an audio compressor.
And compression due to the mp3 format and other lossy formats.
Those are two completely different types of compression.
Indeed. "Compression" of FILE SIZE is what lossy formats do, while discarding much of the "information content" and fidelity, making them easy to stream (without blowing through a data cap) and portable enough for cheap USB flash drives to hold several hours of music.
Audio compression is squeezing the dynamic range between the softest and loudest sounds.
When used a little, it can improve the sound, making it a bit fuller (not as thin), and make it easier to listen in noisier environments like cars.
But taken to extremes like too many recordings are done today and it makes them all sound like crap, worse than an AM radio turned up to 10.
Hopefully recording artists, engineers, and producers will start caring about the quality of the sound instead of just how "loud" it sounds one day soon.
I miss the quality recordings from the 1980s that took advantage of the 96dB dynamic range of CDs and made music emotionally impactful.
Mp3 compression? Whaddya mean? Filesize?
@@Firearmerr
Yes.
@@Firearmerr for example taking a 16-bit 640MB .wav file and running it through a mp3 encoder with the result being the "best" a mp3 file can be, which is a 320Kbps, 16-bit file, you'll end up with a file about 91 MB or roughly 1/7th the FILE SIZE. To do that, it uses perceptual encoding that throws out much of the nuances of the audio quality.
It can still be very listenable and enjoyed, but it is not the level of audio quality of the original at all.
Only non-lossy compression schemes like FLAC or ALAC can "crunch" file sizes to about 60% or so, and retain ALL of the audio quality of the original.
There is an even bigger difference in the 'compression' commonly thought of in loudness wars, and compression used in the actual engineering mix process. The latter changes the dynamic perception of the individual instrument.
I consider myself an "audiophile", but not because i have expensive stuff, but because i want to listen as much of the songs i like as i can. And also for the fact that i really find beautiful the engineering behind sound, everything, i want to learn all i can about it
Yeah, I fall into the same camp. I don't care "what the artist intended", but I do care that my nicer headphones let me pick out subtle details that are indistinguishable on lesser cans.
In Spanish there is a word for people who passionately loves music and is “melómano” I always thought that Audiophile was the English word for it 😅 but in English is melomaniac
Another name for audiophile is sucker, buy something that is good enough and a decent pair of headphones, that’s it!
Same, I feel like having higher quality headphones allow us to appreciate our favourite songs more. Like the composer put in a lot of details that are unnoticeable on lower end gears, and I find it interesting to dissect what makes the song good.
@@paulm2467 Anything beyond $1k for headphone + amp or $2-3k for stereo hifi is overkill for me and greatly diminishing returns. If you shop wisely, I think there’s a sweet spot in that price range that can satisfy a music lover for life. (In my case, Senn HD600 + Schiit Amp for headphones, Cambridge Amp + KEF q350 and SVS sub for hifi) .
Audio gear, like music production gear can so easily turn into an obsession, where you’re always searching for the next best thing rather than enjoying and being satisfied with what you’ve got. These will probably be the last systems I buy (unless they break) and I’m good with that.
Guttenberg had a great video interviewing a sound engineer in New York. It was a couple videos actually, very enlightening about mastering, compression if you want to know more about how the sausage is made. Another thing is that a LOT of musicians have terrible hearing loss. They are constantly exposed to high volume levels.
Have not been through the "sausage making" process. On a broadcast useage basis, a different end user story.
As a young man, I worked [low level engineering, late 60's/early 70's] at several minor mrkt FM stations whose formats were MOR & Rock.
I was amazed at the vol. levels ["11"?] that some dj's would run the control monitors during their [usually six hours] shift.
Despite the extensive sound damping acoustics utilized within the broadcast booth, one could 'hear' what was being played before one walked in the lobby.
I've no idea what hearing damage unfolded....looking back.
One station used JBL 100'S [wall mounted, unknown Amp] that would emit thunder during 6 to midnight shift.
Louder than the combined forced air blowers of a 20kw FM + 5kw AM transmitter in an adjacent room.
Ah, reflection(s).
That video got re-uploaded like 3 times because he mocked another audiophile you tubers wife. Basically calling her opinion dumb because she is a women
@@Flarptube I feel like music composition and audio mastering are two very different things, in which one is far more reliant on hearing than the other. The other one is more reliant on creativity and intuition which comes straight from the brain.
Get em Randy! This is why I follow you, Darko and Andrew Robinson. You are all very different, but you all just care about music and none of the BS. Keep it up!
Yep these 3 I trust too
I think also may add Zero Fidelity? He sounds pretty impartial to me.
I'm an audiophile(!), but Randy is correct on all points. I've got to where I am by buying stuff second hand and if I hear an improvement (or just like it for whatever reason) I keep it and sell on what I had previously. After a few iterations I'm very happy where I'm at, I now have the sound I want in my room. I've gone backwards before, luckily my old gear I hadn't sold yet and put that back in. Yes I've taken some loses, but to me that is the cost of playing around and having fun, so I'm good with that.
So true, Randy, so true!
One of my pet hates is the expression "mid-fi". 40 years ago, when I got into this hobby, it didn't exist; entry-level separates were considered hi-fi too. Somewhere along the line, some twerp with too much money invented the term as a put-down on lesser mortals whose gear cost less than theirs, and all the other snobs liked the idea and ran with it.
I find the same to be true of "hifi". It has become meaningless.
Pro-sumer, chi-fi, entry level. All silly. We all hear different too, having a go on measuring headphones can show you how different visually.
You can get better audio equipment by spending a lot of money but you hit the wall of diminishing returns for far less now days. Then again it depends if you even consider accuracy as being better. My old much cheaper set up sounded better than what I have now when I was listening to nothing but rock n roll with less than stellar production. That's because I made a surround sound setup consisting of gear used for live rock and roll so surprise surprise. Really bright tweeters aren't my thing but if you listen to a lot of female Jazz vocals a Klipsch setup can make them sound amazing. Some albums I prefer listening to on my 350$ near field Edifiers over my multi-thousand dollar system. It all kind of depends on taste.
If you want a system that does everything really well though you want gear that measures accurate . There's definitely a lot of stuff out there punching way lower than their price point and vice versa. Unless you make a lot of money the improvement you can get with really expensive gear isn't worth it. Most people would get a bigger improvement just learning to set it up properly. DSP will probably make that extra cost unjustified before long for anything other stronger materials or nice finishes.
Yeah, just having separates full stop put you ahead of the vast majority of people who tended to have a 'midi hifi' all in one box for sure.
@@jimshaw899 That's because a lot of people have never heard REAL hi-fi! A lot of hi-fi equipment even way back in the late 1950's sounded real good! Those of us that did...we loved that sound!
There's a whole scene in the end of the movie "Once" after they've mastered their whole album. The audio tech goes, "okay, it's time for the car test". The band looks puzzled, so he explains. "We've been listening to these songs on these expensive studio monitors, it's time to listen to it on some crappy car speakers".
In the '50s and '60s, rock & roll studios would master songs to sound good on AM radio, including pocket transistors. Play it on a high-end setup and it might sound "bad", but play it on a crappy radio and it's got the right feel.
Classical music, on the other hand, tends to be another deal. As an orchestra musician myself, I have a solid aural picture of what live music sounds like. I routinely record rehearsals and concerts and use my aural memory to judge the fidelity of the reproduction against reality.
I have been spending more and more time just toying with the idea that we're all still children and that the emotions behind our actions and words are not that different. This is very apparent with arguments and especially subjective ones. Every kid I've met will say they don't like something they've never seen, eaten and on and on. The major difference, sometimes, is the level of complexity and layering in the sentences chose to "support" their arguments. It's so funny.
Great rant!
"I have been spending more and more time just toying with the idea that we're all still children"
That was the major reason to find a way to become mature, instead of just being an adult.
I saw 30-60 year old people insecure and lost. But you can bet off they will try to give you advice.
yeah so true! I've been thinking about the same thing... and it happens to all of us. sometimes I think I'm mature, but then I face some situation that makes my inner child surface, and later in hindsight I'm so embarrassed I acted that way! and it happens a lot in trivial arguments too, I think I'm a know it all and then I face the hard truth. I'm a young adult, but you see people who are full grown adults and do this too. being a kid is a lot like being an unfiltered human hahah
@@adrvapor9433 I'll always be keeping myself in check :)
"mother, as you are a *rational* human being, i'll presume this was *not* how you INTENDED my meal to taste, hmm?"
As someone who has recorded quite a bit, often times we will get emailed WAV files and each of us will listen to the tracks on our own gear. I’ve listened in my car, in my wife’s car, on my laptop, on my phone, and sometimes even on a proper pair of speakers. “As the artist intended”: I was probably drinking when I recorded. We intend it to be enjoyed, full stop.
Same here. I’m a drummer. I go into a recording session with a certain way I want my stuff to sound and cut through the mix but as long as I can hear everything I played within a certain general style it’s all good. I’m not a mastering engineer. I say “here’s a reference track (in any file format or quality ) now make me sound like that.” My job is to play drums not to master tracks. That guy is the “Artist” with the real “intention.”
Same. With 30 years as a professional drummer under my belt I can confirm that in my experience at least the recording process involves many people's ideas and there are always compromises to be made. Thanks for what you do Randy! Love your videos and I've learned a lot from them! Cheers from the east coast of Canada!
Almost all recordings sound better after a couple of 40 ounce Colt 45s.
@@rking6247 My fingers don’t seem to move the same without a couple pours in them.
I saw another reviewer say I’m missing the magic if I don’t spend 23k on a dac😆
A music lover listens to his records on his equipment, while an audiophile listens to his equipment playing his records.
If you are listening to an LP, you hear the cackles and pops for a few seconds then the music does its magic and they dissapear. I love music.
@@micheltremblay4774 unless your record pressing plant lowered volume to get better dynamics, making crackles audible on acoustic-guitar songs
I guess I'm just listening to tunes on mp3 files lol
This is what happens when hobby meets community. The hobbyist by themselves is just really interested in their particular hobby. But when they begin interacting with other hobbyists, they start organizing a hierarchy and standards to judge each member’s status within this hierarchy. With something as subjective as audio, the standards tend to become arbitrary, or just tied to something more measurable, like monetary value. Thus, you get $500 gold/platinum audio cables and what not.
Having done many recordings along the way, one of the first things we do as soon as we get our initial basic mix down is run out to the car park and listen to it on an average system in one of our cars. That way, we can get an idea of how most people will probably hear it. The expensive high-fidelity studio monitors will give you all the fine details, but they don't provide a sense of how it will end up being played to most people. We've used this vital tool to shape many final mixes. I know we're not the only people who do this, so I would argue that many musicians don't intend to tailor their sound to audiophiles, but wish to direct it to the average listener with average equipment who make up the bulk of the market.
Quick edit: I paused the video a second too soon. As soon as I finished writing it and started watching again, he explained exactly what I'd described. I was going to delete it, but I thought I should leave it up just to reiterate his point.
Can attest that it’s common to do the “car test” during mixing/mastering. The thinking is that if it sounds good there, it’ll sound good most anywhere.
Can't be blowing out the car speakers the first time the bass or kick comes in.
the thing about car speakers that i find is that they are most balanced towards too much bass, so much so that it makes my ears hurt, and for some reason the singin voices in some car speakers get lost, and some cars dont even have tweeters so forget about that crisp clean clear cymbal crash
@@ernestochang1744 It depends on the speakers. I mixed a song these last few days, and I listened it in the car. I heard some awful frequencies, which were even more pronounced when I later listened through my old Sennheiser HD485 headphones. I scooped out those frequencies, and now it sounds much better. However, on my humble hi-fi system, I heard that there was a bit too much high end on the vocals and the snare, and that's an easy fix too.
Anyway, the car test works really well, but it's a good idea to cross reference the mix on several speakers and headphones.
Plus, music is most commonly listened to in cars. So if it sounds good in a car, it will likely be listened to.
@@femali me personally i dont think car speakers are a good indication of how music will sound, only casuals who dont care much for sound quality would go with factory car speakers, then again i havent turned on my cars speakers in well over 4 years neither have i bothered to buy upgraded car speakers/ amps its just a waste of money id rather take a hifi pair of headphones or nice Adams audio v7 speakers
Preach it son! If it’s enjoyable to you is all that matters. I was an early listener and happy to see your channel is doing great!
Absolutely 100% correct!!!
I never bought into the “audiophile” way of thinking myself, thinking about all the rubbish with hyper expensive cables, cables with electrons aligned etc.
That is the kind of video I kind of was expecting when I clicked on your video. Boy I was wrong! You have some seriously good and well thought and funded arguments there. Thumbs up from me!
“Not how the artist intended it”? What are they even talking about? A fundamental concept in audio engineering is getting your mixes to sound good on any system…that’s kind of what separates the pros from the hobbyists.
I guess "how the artist intended it" actually means "however the final mix sounds on any speakers ever" lol. I'd probably make an exception for speakers/sound systems that have such bad acoustics and frequency responses that they are unpleasant to listen to (for example, very specific ranges of harsh high frequencies present in certain album mixing styles and rattling car frames from bass, both of which unfortunately apply to my car lol).
This. Even for Daft Punk's first album, Homework, the songs were played out on a ghettoblaster because "if it sounds good on this, it'll sound good on anything," and this is *Daft Punk* we're talking about
It has long been advised that when mixing a track of music that the mix should be previewed on a wide range of sound systems, e.g., car audio, hi-fi speakers, consumer ear buds, as an MP3, etc. The infamous Yamaha NS10 speakers (or a clone such as the Avantone Pro CLA10) have been widely used in professional studios as secondary monitors, not because they are accurate but because they have a sound more typical of a mediocre home stereo speaker.
For many years power station studios used to play the final mix in an old car on a mono cassette player just to see if it sounded ok
This is 100% accurate in my (limited) experience. I'm not an audio engineer, but I had to learn about audio production for my film degree. The reason that you mix in a neutral environment with reference monitors is so that the audio will sound acceptable everywhere else. If your mix sounds horrible everywhere except where it was mixed, the mix is horrible. Pretty simple concept :)
"It's your music, you can listen to it however you want to". Best statement!! Ultimately it's your music, your gear, your ears. It's going to be what YOU like. It's all subjective! Great video!
My gear sounds good to my ears...that's all that matters!
Dude, you made my evening! I enjoyed your comments on Audiophiles. I am passionate about music, great audio experiences and running live sound. Most importantly, I understand there are crapy audio products on the market, the kinda stuff that just sound "bad". Then there is audio products that allow you to enjoy music for hours and leaves you smiling. Bottom line, great audio gear is not rare, smiling people listening to music are. Love your channel!
As a "high-end" manufacturer of audio components, Great American sound Co. or GAS Co. was continually approached by "golden-eared audiophiles" claiming the amplifier or preamplifier they owned clearly sounded superior to any of the GAS Co. products we were producing. I would always invite these individuals into the sound room with their preferred audio component and proceed to connect it to the switching system. I would have them select a comparable GAS Co. component that I also connected to the system and then carefully adjusted both components with a precision AC voltmeter for equal levels. Before the testing commenced, I would give the audiophile the remote lanyard--a small handheld box with a toggle switch labeled A or B. I always told them that the "A" position was their piece of equipment and the "B" position was the GAS Co. equipment. After exhaustively auditioning the two components, the golden eared individual would always have a litany of subjective terms that negatively described the sound of the GAS Co. component such as: "overall dullness", "lack of transparency", "ill defined bass", "irritating midrange", "shrill highs", "lack of depth", "unstable imaging"..... ad nauseam. While the audiophile was espousing these opinions, I would bring the level of the music back up, then casually walk over to the components, switch off the power to the GAS Co. component and ask the audiophile to please toggle the lanyard switch between A and B.
Unbeknownst to the audiophile, I had connected the switching system exclusively to their component only. During the test when they switched from A to B, the sound audibly dropped-out during the switching process for a few milliseconds cueing the listener that something had changed. When the audiophile realized that I had clearly demonstrated that their golden ears were not golden at all, they would quickly disconnect their component from the system, and while stomping out of the listening room, turn around, and, depending on how invested they were in believing they had golden ears, generally espouse a litany of profanities directed at me. Don't shoot the messenger! I repeated these same A/B listening tests many times with various individuals and groups and determined there was a direct correlation between audiophiles and lovers of music; audiophiles were always angered; music lovers were always enlightened, especially women! This same switching system was also utilized for loudspeakers and phono cartridges since GAS Co. was selling "Sleeping Beauty" "moving-coil" phono cartridges made by Coral Corp. in Japan. There was no need try to fool the listener as I did with electronics, switching between different loudspeakers and phono cartridges always produced easily discernible audible changes in the musical timbre characteristics. David Riddle
Glad I’m not the only person that has these opinions on being a “true audiophile”… If I have to spend $50,000 to be a true audiophile, I’ll have to pass… another great video!
Knowing when something is "set up" correctly is the what you are looking for, not how much something costs, but what it capability is.
An audiophile can still be happy with Q Acoustics 3020i speakers and an inexpensive 2 channel integrated amplifier. I have 3020is and they sound nice. I want to try the Concept 500s. I prefer speakers that are a good balance between musical and analytical and a well-built class AB transistor amplifier.
@@davidperry4013 Where do you put your speakers in the room you listen to them?
@Mike Unsworth I got that done for $1,500.
@Mike Unsworth I would importantly note that the sound stage should go past the the left side of the left speaker and go past the right side of the right with the sound sounding as if it's coming from behind the speakers several feet back.
Back in the day, a well respected audio magazine swore that plugging a cheap Radio Shack ("Micronta") clock radio into the same electrical outlet as your stereo equipment dramatically improved the sound. Then there was the green marker that, when used around the edges of a CD, allegedly caused the bits to stop leaking (or something) and improved the sound of the CD. These are the types of things that many "audiophiles" considered viable.
Pop a audiophile fuse in your plug as well🤣
Come on , we are all adults here so you can say "Stereophile" and as far as being "well respected", that just isn't the case considering what you posted as examples plus the other snake oil items some of their "reviewers" endorsed. Yes, they do good measurements on components when they want to but also spew the worst BS imaginable. I have ZERO respect for Atkinson, Serinus and their ilk. They knowingly lie to keep the ad revenue going.
I remember the green marker. I recall the idea was that the CD could act like a fibre optic cable with the laser light travelling horizontally through the CD towards the edge of the disc thus interfering with the laser reading the disc. The green ink was meant to absorb that horizontal laser light. At the time I wondered why not use a black pen as it would absorb more wavelengths of light? So I wanted to experiment but did not want to spend $25 at a HiFi store so ended up getting exactly the same green pen (less cheap label) from a stationery store for a few dollars. I also got a black pen from the same maker and range. I didn't notice any difference in the CDs sound. I still have a couple of CDs with green around the edge. As for the black pen - the ink flaked off almost immediately which is why it wasn't used.
@@mddawson1 I remember those green pens very well. As for buying one I like you could not stomach the cost for a pen. On top of that it was just nonsense. Disc played perfectly so it was a gimmick and a powerful one because they certainly did sell. A item made to address a problem that did not exist like so many hifi accessories sadly.
@@a0r0a7 Another one that I tried back in the 90s was shorting out the co-axial digital output on my Rotel RCD-855 that was suppose to improve the analog output. Once again I did it on the cheap shorting out an old RCA plug and once again I heard no difference. It obviously did not harm the Rotel as I still use it now. I am pleased to say I never fell for improving a CD players sound by placing a piece of paper under one foot. I do hope that one was a joke.
It's refreshing to see someone straight talking and cutting through the nonsense some of these so called audio files go on about, everyone hears things differently so if your hi-fi sounds good to you then you're sorted regardless of the price...
Everyone hears things differently...what a load of CRAP!!! Some people have better hearing than others but our ears all work the same way, unless you have bionic ears.
The golden ears want you to believe that their hearing is so keen, so exquisite, that they can hear tiny nuances of reproduced sound too elusive for the rest of us. Absolutely not true. Anyone without actual hearing impairment can hear what they hear, but only those with training and experience know what to make of it, how to interpret it.
Thus, if a loudspeaker has a huge dip at 3 kHz, it will not sound like one with flat response to any ear, golden or tin, but only the experienced ear will quickly identify the problem. It's like an automobile mechanic listening to engine sounds and knowing almost instantly what's wrong. His hearing is no keener than yours, he just knows what to listen for. You could do it too if you had dealt with as many engines as he has.
@@thegoat164 I have diamond ears even tho I am not one of those audio files
@@thegoat164 the shape of the ear affects how you hear things, not just the volume at which you hear them. Since people have different ears, they do literally hear things differently.
Oh wow! So I'm only in about 2 mins and I'm already subscribed, I like the way you think....no bulls**t, period. But then, I push "subscribe" and then I see that little note that shows you actually care???!!! I'm all in! Thank you!
The group you're talking about would more properly be termed "gear heads" rather than "audiophiles". For them, it's all about the equipment. And you are spot on about what the artists want their music to sound like. Just look inside the fold open liner of The James Gang's second album "James Gang Rides Again". You'll find the words, "Made loud to be played loud". If that doesn't say it, nothing does!
I enjoyed playing guitar more when I knew nothing about gear, then I bought gear for thousands of dollars and lost interest in the playing and focussed on gear only. I hate myself for that.
This "gear over direct experience" thing is oddly dehumanizing. It's like a mental disease or something. I know people who are like this (including myself 5+ years ago) and they always seem to make assumptions of reality that just don't line up with, well, reality.
I'm into psychology and I do ridiculous amounts of research, introspection, and reflection, so I've been trying to get to the bottom of this and figure out the source. Right now my sights are on the concept of social engineering as the main culprit. A symptom of many deep-rooted learned problems (as in, not naturally present without specific outside influences) that are unconsciously passed down through generations.
Thank god there are many people these days that are becoming self-aware enough to break these cycles. Without them, humanity would be royally screwed. I have hope.
Actually, Audiophiles are those who obsess about music and the gear. If you're just all about the music, then you're a music lover, not an Audiophile.
You need a good set to play music loud enjouably.
Boy do i love that lp , good memories my Jr. high school year! Love the photos!
I've been into hifi all my life with 30 years of experience learning, testing and trying new things. I have spent entire weekends AB comparing amplifiers DACs, preamps, speakers, players, files, room treatments and setup. The thing is perception is a major factor and it means you can't AB test and fully know if one thing or another is better. As one example I listened to a set of older Polk Audio SDA-2 speakers and I thought they were awful on initial impressions. I changed back to my Q Acoustics Concept 20's that I had been listening to for a few months and though how much better they were. I decided to switch to the Polk's again and give them another shot with some different test tracks and went a month like that. When I went back to my Q Acoustics speakers I hated them, they sounded thin, peaky and bright all of the sudden. The longer you listen to any change in setup the more you get used to the sound and it changes your perception and what you like. So AB testing is a no go for me. Instead I need to listen to any new component my system without interruption for minimum 2 weeks of heavy listening a few hours a day and then decide if I like it or not.
Entertainment Becomes Entrainment!!!
I have a number of different speakers and they all sound great but different. So I justify it to myself like the differences in good wines. They’re different but they’re all good. Not very scientific. But I get a lot of pleasure from each of my systems.
You are absolutely right. I also went into the rabithole, with cheap speakers though, buying speakers, reading about 'better speakers', sell them, buy others, etc. until I ended up with Infinity renaissance 90, and i loved them. Until they broke and I went looking for other speakers. Now I found piega and I like it. But probably, there are better speakers out there, but honestly, i'm sick of buying and selling and prefer to invest my time in tweaking it, improving the room, processor, and enjoy them more!
It’s just like buying a new pair of shoes where they’ll never feel as comfortable as your old ones only because they’re different. But once you where them a couple weeks, their feel becomes the new norm.
My Q Acoustics 2020s [plus a not very expensive sub-woofer] are excellent.
Musician and audio enthusiast here, with recording experience on both analog and digital equipment.
Every sound engineer worth his salt will test the final mix :
A) Both in stereo AND mono to make sure nothing is out of phase and all instruments are audible.
B) From multiple sources and in different acoustic environments to make sure it delivers under all circumstances....that includes cars, portable devices, headphones and yes,mobile phones!
C) Noone knows what the artist intented but the artist themselves...often, not even them!
I wholly agree with you. I just add one thing is a low cost FM transmitter and walk around the house to see how it sounds on different radios.
Keeping Avantone in business.
:)
This all day.
Hi I have been following Your Channel several years ago. Thanks for Your honesty in Your comments .
Best regards from Colombia SA
As an audio engineer who has recorded much music straight into my PC using some nice microphones and preamps but everything else software-based, I have gotten into “spirited debates“ with the equivalent of “audiophiles“ in my world, who swear that everything has to be analog/ “old-school”, otherwise it’s garbage. I’ve actually started lying to some of these “purists”, saying that I recorded it all on tape, going so far as to add to tape hiss back in using my tape-sim plug-ins. They could never tell the difference.
So true! Next time serve them RC cola and tell them it's "the real thing".
Will they notice?
Not in a million years.
Don't forget that the software version of the 1960s Beatles EMI studio tape recorder has parameters for "added 50 cycle hum" and "added wow and flutter" to make it "authentic".
Lol sounds like you have worked with Jack White a few times , hes right into that ,, he loves his real to reals
Beware of audio reviews that sound like wine tastings…
“Open and airy”
Pairs well with jazz”
“Subtle overtones of walnut and MDF”
Exactly!! 🤣
Hey, 'open' and 'airy' are valid and tangible characteristics....
@@kekethetoad I never saw an oscilloscope with an “Open” or Airy” knob. You cannot measure subjective items. They cannot be tangible.
best comment!
@@jimhibert you can correlate real signal characteristics with them though, like openness/soundstage and transient/imaging details in high freq etc. .... Do i need to elaborate more?
I'm always amazed as a young person who grew up with vinyl (many years ago LOL) and all my albums survived and I still listen to them on my " barely decent" turntable. The only thing we really followed was a clean record, a good needle. keeping them away from sunlight and handling them on the edges only. A audiophile would be appalled at my set up, but my music plays wonderful and my speakers deliver me great music everytime 🎶
I was thinking the same thing and I was wondering if maybe using analog equipment just sounds better to us because we are old and that is how we heard the music growing up. I am sure an audiophile would also be appalled at my equipment but I personally think it sounds fantastic. I never think of this "hobby" as a way of trying to produce the highest quality sound as much as recapturing some of the joy of finding records on vinyl, listening to an entire album in one sitting, the artwork on the covers etc.
It's also curious that even on the most expensive, state-of-the-art, 'high end' audiophile quality audio equipment, they still have ANALOGUE audio inputs!? Some obscenely expensive audio equipment even have Phono inputs for that rickety, 40+yo 'barely decent' turntable to plug into!
What does that tell you? 🤣🤣
@@ozymandias7940 I own an old Sugden amp (pre/power comb.), a Thorens 125 II with Hadcock GH 228 arm, an ADC cartridge, pair of Tannoy Eatons, AKG K340, a Revoxx B77 R2R and a a Studer A721 cassette. All bought second hand. Very good listening experience with these so no need to upgrade to modern state of the art expensive "audiophile" equipment.
What is your setup?
The first lesson I learned with this hobby is that if the ad says ‘audiophile’ more then once or twice, its probably a waste of money. Hell, if it says it even once it’s probably a waste of money.
I was once told by someone who does music mastering "Listen to your music on the monitors in a studio, the Sony MDR7506, your favorite headphones, some apple earbuds, something samsung includes with their phones, and some airpods or whatever is popular, because most of your market isn't listening to it on anything remotely like what you hear in a studio. Try to understand it from every level from the studio, down to the person who only has the budget for the phone they listen to it on, and the included crackly earbuds."
You should listen to your music the way you normally do which means if you're in the car/truck a lot, then consider just improving the sound by some aftermarket speakers & maybe an amp but if you're a college kid who rides a bike, then your earbuds are going to be your HiFi connection and they can be improved. I had a set of Bose buds which I ended up giving to my son for his work and he only uses his phone. He loves them.
Back in the early 80's, I once owned a set of Minimus 50's from Radio Shack. They were metal enclosures with 4" woofer & 1" radial tweeter. My friend who had (at the time) a $5,000 quad Sansui system he got from a PX in Germany in the early 70's was so impressed by how good the Minimus 50's sounded at my house, told me he later bought a pair for his workshop. He was more proud of those than his 380 watt/channel quad system. Go figure.
As long as we are all happy with our audio gears that’s what’s important. Price doesn’t always define the quality. There are some Chinese made tube amps at amazing prices that offer really good sound
Hell yeah, I LOVE my Dayton Audio HTA100. Ample power , Class A-B Tube amp hybrid as warm as a puppy and sweet as Tupelo Honey ! My JBLs and Infinities love her.
If every speaker measured and sounded the same it would suck. Everyone likes different flavors and everyone likes a certain kind of sound. I love how my speakers sound different from each other. Makes it fun and it’s interesting hearing music over different systems and setups!
@HomeTheater101 said: "Everyone likes different flavors and everyone likes a certain kind of sound."
This is VERY true, but let's call that "flavor" what it *really* is. *_DISTORTION_*
There isn't a single piece of equipment on this planet that _doesn't_ somehow distort the original signal.
@Lassi Kinnunen 81 But you are forgetting that tone control or EQ are the work of the Devil.
"Contempt prior to investigation" - THANKS FOR THIS! I find this is something I encounter with so many people on so many things in life and to finally have a name for it is great!
I love your first point. I consider myself a bit of an audiophile (Intro level), but I could (n't lol) CARE LESS how the artist intended it to be...I'm gonna listen to it the way I fell in love with it....and the fun thing is as you change your system and things over time you start to discover new elements in the stuff you already love and know so well. That is a wonderful trip through an album over the years. If you only listen to something "one way", you never discover what is hidden in that approach.
I listen to my favorite music on a number of different systems, my truck has a pretty decent (factory) Sony system, my car has a decent system (also factory), and I have a couple of different stereos at home and I have my studio as well as my air pods and my bose buds. I hear each song differently on the different systems and depending on the frequency curve of each system, it's easier to hear certain instruments on some systems while they are buried in the mix on other systems.
Couldn't care less
@@AluminumHaste Maybe he could care less. Who knows???
@@JedWunderli Exactly!!
@@AluminumHaste tomato this tomato that lol
Love your content man. Super refreshing! Ended up buying sony sscs5 pair and strdh190 as I'm just getting into the hobby. (Use them every day) Finding your outlook has been both entertaining and rewarding. Keep it up man!
"Do you...I'm gonna do me" - cheapaudioman c.2021
Nice! I started with the SSCS3's and STRDH590. Does that mean I'm a snob??
In the short span being an audiophile, i found out that no piece of audio gear makes more noise compared to other audiophiles
Is that a Yamaha CR800 on the shelf ? One of my longtime favorites. Well built, designed to be serviceable, a minimal amount of bean counter interference with manufacturing. I miss those days. These days most audio products are like cell phones… new every two cause they only last that long. Randy , too much coffee will make you poop …lol Great rant. I still have my Pioneer SK31 boom box . I can listen to music on anything. I used to be audiofoolish. Now I know better. BTW I recently refurbished a pair of Futterman H3aa . They can only be used with stacked Quad 53’s my collector customer tells me. I really enjoy your channel , keep up the good work. Two Wiim Pros in the house with external Dac’s ( Cal Audio ) and my custom Dyna ST-70 still giving me goosebumps. Cheers dude.
I subscribe to the John Cage school of composition: a piece should sound different each time it's played, in each place it's played, and even at different places in the performance area at a single performance.
"Every seat is excellent, because from each one, you will hear something different." -- John Cage
I listen to a lot of classical music. Even though they play the same notes, Beethoven's Fifth Symphony sounds different depending on who the conductor is. Bernstein and the New York Philharmonic, Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra or Maazel and the Vienna Philharmonic.
@@stanleycostello9610
Not only the conductor but most classical pieces have different arrangements as well.
Excellent video.
Have a friend who's an audiophile. He forgot how to enjoy music and became a hifi-bore instead. He's spent thousands on equipment and is never satisfied.
I have 20 year old speakers and a 20 year old amp - both of which survived a house fire, and am happy.
I had a friend who is an audiophile and I can relate. It was always about the quality of the recordings which I understand, but it was never about the music per se. I realised a long time ago that spending thousands of pounds on audio equipment to get a marginal improvement on a setup that is much cheaper is just insane.
Spot on. Being in sales myself Im baffled at the ignorance I’ve met visiting hifi-shops.
I’ve only met maybe one or two good salesmen in hifi-shops. It’s because the nature of the product draws staff that treat it as a hobby. It’s very difficult to be a great seller when you love your product more than selling in itself.
I’m in the market for new speakers so I’ve visited 7 different shops so far. None have asked me what music I want to hear. That’s kind of the first rule of selling, know your customer. Interview them.
I hate the term audiophile in general. I listen to music, and I love listening to a good system. Do you get better systems for more money? Often. But diminishing returns start pretty early. Value is subjective but so is music. I’ve had equipment that measures fantastic and sound boring as hell. And I’ve had equipment that measures poorly and engages me to listen for longer sessions.
The whole concept of audiophiles is stupid
I have a degree in physics and used to work in live theater sound. I have had audiophile friends asking all sorts of questions. Speaker cables are the one that gets me. They worry about cable that needs to transmit at most a few tens of kilohertz with plenty of voltage, maybe if our hearing extended into the megahertz or if our amplifiers put out microvolt level signals should we worry a bit about our cables. Just make sure there's enough copper to handle the current to your speakers then sit back and listen. Don't worry about oxygen, unobtanium or whatever fancy insulation or connectors you've been told you need, copper wire is just fine.
I had a buddy in a popular metal band. His kids were friends with my friends, that kind of thing. Super cool dude. He listened to album mixes through his phone over consumer headphones outside a Wendy’s in a pretty noisy area while our families were having lunch.
That album won a Grammy.
Limp Bizkit?📭
Damn you friends with Dave from Megadeth or something?
@@commisargamerson1666 ha it’s a dude from high on fire.
I'm not even into audio that much but I love this video. In any endeavor of man a snobbery develops, or "experts" creating "expert" things so they can feel good about themselves being "experts" when generally they aren't.
💯
As a comment snob, it pains me to feel good about comparing your comment to drinking a slightly above room temperature pineapple fanta purchased from a recently stocked Walgreens after it drained off the windshield of a 2004 dodge caravan during a spring morning at sea level.
"The price doesn't dictate the quality" learnd that decades ago .... when people would throw out perfectly good Hi-Fi equipment to replace it with the latest and greatest plastic effort ...when the NAD 3020 amp ... and AR18 speakers i found in a skip worked perfectly well!.... about two years later the sane person disposed of a denon drm44 cassette deck and a damaged linn LP12!! That was in the early 90s
Literally every piece of audio gear I own was free. The stuff I've got cost somebody thousands of dollars, I paid nothing because they got rid of it and spent thousands more on something newshiny.
@@jonc4403 Indeed, you sat on the street corner and some random Samaritan donated you by thousands of dollars audio gear.
@@danender5555 Hey, if you sit at the right street corner at the right time, I'm sure you could get some too. But no, it was a lot less random than that.
@@jonc4403 'cos I have never sat on any street corner ever, I had to pay for each audio gear piece... fortunately, always off margin price.
@@danender5555 I'm trying to recall if I've ever sat at a street corner. I can't think of a time I have. And for audio gear it probably wouldn't work anyway, what do you put on the sign? "Will work for high-end audio gear"? It seems destined for failure.
Hahaha! Perfect, really perfect!
And to your point 1.
I actually happen to record an EP with my band back in the day.
The recording studio was a professional one we paid for with our own money. Some bands who actually had some success recorded their LPs in that studio, with that engineer.
Well, our drummer was particularly fastidious with how the music should have sounded neutral, hence the engineer recorded the first demo. It was sounding decent in the studio monitors. Then he put it on tape (we were in the early 90s) and said "ok, now you go in your car and put this in your car stereo and tell me how it sounds. Because 100% of the people who will listen to this will not listen to it in this studio".
We went in actually my car, with a normal car stereo and it sounded completely flat and basically crap.
We went back to the studio, the engineer made all the adjustments he had to do, gave us a new tape and said "Now listen to this".
Back in my car, same car stereo, and it sounded great.
Artists have no clue what they want, sound engineers do. And they do their magic in a way that it doesn't matter how crap your stereo is, music will still sound decent.
what was your band called?
@@noname-fk6rs in which country do you live?
US@@111two
oh is that the band name
@@noname-fk6rs Unless you know any single name of any single band who made a demo and didn't make it to the charts everywhere in the world OUTSIDE of the US, do you realise you're sounding a bit like a smart arse?
Most bands approve masters by listening to the music through as many systems as possible. Speaking from experience. Headphones, car systems, phone speakers, audiophile systems, all of it. The most important for a master to sound good is through the most commonly used speakers.
That would be an iphone with bluetooth ear buds.
@@jellyd4889 Those things sound awful! I tried those once..that was enough for me! My ears couldn't take that noise.., and the sound quality was horrible!
@@jimmyroocoh8696 Those earpods really do sound awful. Airpods also not so great and is all just hip. Airpods pros are quite acceptable though. I am actually quite impressed on the speaker on my iPhone 13 Pro max. It sounds really clean and seperates the stereo channels well, but still it's nothing compared to my 7.1 system. That's where all the serious music listening and enjoyment comes. It's the only system I can listen to music on for hours and not get bored. I will listen to the same songs through headphones but it's just not the same, especially with the new Dolby Atmos songs. Those are really fun to listen to and are really immersive. Just not on Airpods. The "Dolby Atmos" they give is garbage and it's better to disable it. It basically hampers the audio quality and it constatly makes you second guess if the music is being played from your headphones or outloud through your phone with how it sounds. Only use this if you really have an Atmos AVR and System. You also need an apple TV 4k to get this feature on apple music (Airplay doesn't work even though it's definitely capable). I am not sure if there is a other way with tidal.
6:18 - Audiophile means you love the sound. If you love the way it sounds, you're doing it right. Screw anyone else's opinions.
Thank you for this. I simply LOVE the sound coming from my little plastic LG Music Flow Wi-Fi speakers. 14 of them, all over the house. They rock the joint, and I love them. I'm 48 years old and I've never loved a sound system like I love this one.
Less than $1600 invested. Enjoyed for 7 years and counting.
I am far from an audiophile having grown up in the 70`s with one hit bongs and Grand Funk Railroad blaring from a stereo I bought at Gibsons or Sears, but I always thought the best starting point for HiFi was the harmonic distortion produced by the receiver. BTW, after a few one hitters from the bong, I stopped caring!
Randy is spicy this morning. This is going to be good!!!!!!
@Fisher Man It smells like Irish whiskey.
No, Randy is really very drunk this morning and it was boring to watch him slur his way over the same points. Spend less on booze and you'll have more left for audio gear.
@@hikerpunk2823 Well, I certainly wouldn't call it boring. He was coherent. He wasn't falling over drunk. Regardless, it kept me watching to the end. If I were to speculate, I'd guess he needed a drink to say what needed to be said. The insights addressed in this video are definitely tough to swallow for many. But, I'm glad he used his platform to say it.
For 1. You have successfully described what is known as the Circle of Confusion. It's a *circle* because the consumer doesn't know what was intended, so they should stop pretending that the studio was perfectly tuned a specific way. I think we should try to fix this, but it's gonna be very difficult to impossible to convince the entire chain from studio to end user to standardize *everything* measurement wise.
Also nice AJFA and In Utero posters, damn. That's two of my all-time favorite albums right there
Dude. I watched all of your videos. Bring them back, brother. Loved you headphone reviews.
@@cheapaudioman I still hang out with Resolve over at the headphone show on some of his streams now. And if you ever want to stream with me sometime for an interview or just a general Q/A with the audience, let's set something up.
I saw people on reddit were recommending your channel and I'd seen it briefly before, so came to check it out
Love it. Thanks, man.
There's a Buzz Osborne interview you may enjoy on the podcast Tone Mob where he takes a few minutes (from the point of view of a musician that has been around the mastering process of his own music a bunch) explaining the limitations of vinyl LPs. He says that the CD versions of his music sound like what he actually played. In his opinion, what people think they perceive as warmth in that situation is "compression & clipping". He said he'll sell vinyl as long as people think they want it, but finds it baffling.
Hey Randy @cheapaudioman I really love your videos. They really do ground me in reality without dipping into the more iffy parts of the audiophile community. I started not too long ago when a friend gave me a SHP9500 and I was opened to a whole new world of sound.
I went to my local audiophile store and tried out as many headphones as possible and found that I loved the DT 900 Pro X the most.
There were occurrences in the audiophile group where people told me that planars are objectively better when I insisted that it was purely subjective. Then I got told Metallica and all the other music I listened to was trash and I need to listen to “audiophile music” like Hotel California or some Beethoven recordings.
At first I thought people you mentioned were an extreme minority. But turns out I’ve ran into a lot of people that you’ve mentioned in this video!
When I am at college on electronic course, I make my own amplifier from scratch. And built my two way speaker from a hard paper box. Use my bed as part of subwoofer. Then I went to work with Yamaha audio designers engineers, learn a lot on sound characteristics & materials.
Never lets price & the looks to determine a real good sound of any system.
Becoming an audiophile since the 1960s. During that era the plurality of audiophiles rather they multimillionaires or paupers did not, select audio systems due to their price or superficial appearances. And mainly purchased audio systems within their reasonable budgets. Within their budget limitations audiophiles purchased audio systems sonic qualities that they considered "sounded nearest" to among the well known high end state of the art reference audio systems. That's typically how audiophiles evaluated audio systems during this period.
“What if it goes on sale?” Lol. Brilliant! I laughed so hard my cheap subwoofer moved. I’ve just discovered your channel and this is the first video I’ve watch. Made my day, thanks.
I know a very experienced audio engineer that owns a studio and makes a living by setting up 40+ speaker setups in soundproofed rooms. Guy only uses 125$ AKG headphones that are retailing for 75$ right now. I’ve heard what he does and when he recommends me those headphones and 350$ Wharfedale speakers, I take his suggestions very seriously. I was shocked at first with what he recommends cause of that ‘hi-fi starts at X$’ crap. So yeah, totally on your side when it comes to this video. I appreciate you making it.
What AKG's?
@@bradyallan3600 AKG K240 Studios. They were 55$ when I bought a pair.
AKG made great cans. Shame they are owned by Sony now
@@_skud Oh I thought they were owned by Samsung. So many corporate buyouts.
@@FritzTheWolf whoops. You're right. Samsung. Either way it ain't AKG anymore :(
My biggest surprise after getting into this hobby, was listening to old music on better gear. I could hear things like depth, separation, vocals, dynamics, all which helped me reconnect with the music I loved in my childhood (e.g. Scorpions!). It brought me closer to the being there, either a live recording or the studio, and the music evoked emotion. For me that is what an audiophile is, someone who craves that experience. But, keep yourself on budget, and an open mind, that this experience can be had on any system at any time at any price. Not sure we have total control on when we have these experiences. Spending more money does typically ensure a more reliable way to have this experience, but even then it is not guaranteed to deliver every time.
Interesting rant! I guess I am an audiophile as I do own quite an expensive Hi-Fi. As a young guy I bought systems to suit my budget. Thankfully when I was in my 50’s my budget allowed me buy the system I have now. It’s roughly 15 years old and still sounds great.
When I decided to “upgrade” I did the usual reading reviews and then going to a Hi-Fi place to have a listen. But, for my current Hi-Fi I went along to a Hi-Fi store and asked if they can set up this CD player; that amp and those speakers. Which they duly did in their dedicated listening room.
I then put on a CD and sat back and listened. I must say I was a little confused as the volume dial was way up. The guy in the store politely explained that “those speakers” need to be driven with a pre amp.
Okay? I asked him to add the pre amp. Wow! It made a massive difference and the speakers/ music sounded amazing. The trouble is I hadn’t budgeted for the pre amp. It took me a couple of months to bite bullet and buy system. I can honestly say I don’t regret it. The Hi-Fi still sounds great after 15 years.
Another reason I guess I am an audiophile is that I like to sit down and LISTEN to music. A lot of people don’t sit down, they just put on a CD and hear it as they are doing something else.
But one thing I would never do is say someone else’s system is crap. Or someone else’s music taste is crap. Never!
Everyone has a choice to buy what they want depending on their budget. But I think that when you need a pre amp to drive your speakers it therefore can be deemed hi end Hi-Fi…. and therefore an “audiophile”. Enjoy your music everyone.
What was the system you bought?
@@mirsidorov5112 Hi Mir,
My Hi-Fi system is Naim from the Classic Series.
CD Player CD5XS, amp NAC202 and preamp NAP200. Unfortunately all are now discontinued.
I added the Naim Streamer ND5 XS2 recently.
My speakers are Italian; Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor which are also discontinued!
It’s not a truly hi-end system but close enough in my humble opinion.
There’s a video of the speakers with a Nat King Cole song used to demonstrate speakers on TH-cam.
I hope you are listening to and enjoying music.
@@essbee2316 Сool:)
Commercial studio owner from Chicago here. Wanted to pop in with my favorite -ism from the community:
“Not all differences in audiophile technology can be measured, use your ears!”
Okay, how many times have we made changes to an EQ or some other processor, thought it sounded SO much better, then realized it was in bypass mode? Anecdotal for sure, but this situation is also very relatable and showcases how incredibly biased a minds are.
I'll put it another way for you. If it 'can't be measured' with gear, it sure as hell isn't going to be 'measured' by your ears, a much less precise set of 'measurement gear' ;)
I do theatre lighting and it’s amazing you can say to the director you’ve changed the levels of some lights. They can see it. Interesting as in reality you’ve not changed a thing. Btw I’ve done the eq in bypass thing as well and been convinced it was different
As an engineer/producer, I totally agree with everything you’ve said here. The best engineers mix for the consumers not the collectors.
So what you're saying is the best chefs target McDonald's.
@@VideoArchiveGuy Sad to say but... yes! If you want to do this for a living, you probably want to reach the masses as opposed to the genius specialists in the basement with a $100K set of Italian speakers. Any engineer or sound designer etc. will at some point during the mixing process, do his or her best to mimic the average consumer's listening environment.
@@mountainousterrain1704 I can tell by your sarcasm that you already know those two aren't mutually exclusive. I'm definitely not here to defend shitty engineers, I'm only saying that at some point in the process most engineers at minimum, will need to make sure the mix translates. I personally mix in a damn near perfect room but, if I were to print a mix without going to my car, computer speaker, phone, etc. to give it a listen, I wouldn't be doing right by the artist. Most people hear music for the first time in those settings.
@@SirMixAlotChannel No, you don't have to.
TH-cam and all the streaming services normalize and compress anyway, so there's no need for the producers and mastering engineers to do so.
Yo, nice speakers in the back! I had a pair of kilpsch earbuds for years; best pair of earbuds I’ve ever had
I am a very well trained amateur violinist. I love listening to classical music. I couldn't care less about the audio quality at all as long as I can hear it clearly enough for the interpretation of the piece to come through. The purity of the sound is not what makes the music beautiful to me. Of cause I operate by a completely different set of standarts when I am playing myself but being pedantic about the quality of your sound is just a part of being a musician. The "that's how he intended it to be played" is actually a somewhat valid argument in this area.
Audiophiles: we are serious people who seek audio nirvana it is not smoke and mirrors.
Also audiophiles: make certain you plug the cable in the right way around so the electricity flows the correct way
Hahahaaa. How true :)
Directional cables are a real thing with real benefits. Not to be confused with the smoke and mirrors crap that does seem to go along with the term audiophile.
@@chadschoening4352 To my knowledge the directional cables (HDMI?) are directional for the sake of shielding or digital signals. How that is a thing with speaker cables is beyond the realms of science...right?
@@secularnevrosis there are directional RCA cables. Not sure about the HDMI but I'm sure they work work on the same principal.. speaker cables on the other hand.. yeah no. No directional speaker wires that I'm aware of. It's just two wires, not a cable per say.
Lot of capacitors are directional, & U do notice differences if U bother 2 check this, like when wiring speakers with the wrong 'absolute phase' will sound worse.
Former studio engineer here.
All of this is true.
All
Of
It.
I love how audiophiles who only listen to vocal music, or three piece jazz think that if speakers can't respond to metal, for instance, its the music or the mixes fault.
Nope. If you listen to very simple ,clean, easy to mix music, of course it sounds amazing in your "transparent" speakers. It's airy, because there's a lot of air!
A dense recording, complex, with very close ratio instruments and vocals, requires a much more agile speaker or stereo. In reality, speakers and systems should all be measured by how well they play symphonies and complex metal albums. If they can play that well, then your Asian vocal Jazz is probably gonna sound amazing.
Yes it is true what you say.
Dense music will be more complicated to reproduce because it becomes complex to record and mix.
In addition it takes more energy from your audio equipment and if it is not able to follow it will sound bad with ensembles with a lot of instruments playing at the same time.
A big band sound will be more difficult to reproduce than a jazz trio, that's obvious.
They are! During one of your reviews for a pair of KOSS headphones you said “Not for the money, they’re just great headphones period!” It was so refreshing to hear you say that.
When I built my system I had a set budget, about 70% of that budget went to 2 speakers and a sub. The remaining 30% went to an integrated class D amp. This setup was designed where the listening point is within 5 feet from speakers, therefor I didn't need high watt/power system. After spending considerable amount of time tuning the system, the sound felt clinical. But very clean, very clear, just had no 'soul'. The issue was not the class D amp, it was the integrated DAC. When I placed a Schiit multi-bit DAC into the data stream, the entire sound changed. One of my friends has a system that cost the price of an automobile, but that setup is addressing a 1000 sqr/ft room with vaulted ceilings, so they require dual mono class A/B amps at 500+W each. Per them, my sound is finely tuned to my space that sounds as good as their system that cost 8-times the cost from mine. My point is, cost is relative based upon the size of your listening space. The larger the room (listening space) the more expensive equipment you require in order to fill that sound space if you are looking for a 'specific sound'.
Great video! Lots of people trash on gear without actually trying it themselves. One of my fav's "your system just isn't revealing enough" ?
"This is not how the artist intended this to sound like" basically says: "You gotta have super expensive stylish hifi gear like I do to enjoy music. Without it it's impossible!"